1
00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,080
Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by that Da Da

2
00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:09,440
Speaker 1: Da a d T. A d T can design and

3
00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,440
Speaker 1: install a smart home just for you, and it's back

4
00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,159
Speaker 1: by seven protection like Doorman Service, which is an a

5
00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 1: d T automation that unlocks the door for packages, friends

6
00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,320
Speaker 1: or your kids. Just visit a DT dot com slash

7
00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,800
Speaker 1: smart to learn more about how a d T can

8
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,320
Speaker 1: design and install a secure smart home just for you.

9
00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:32,200
Speaker 1: Little Passports is the perfect holiday gift for that curious

10
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,240
Speaker 1: kid on your list, Brian. I love this service because

11
00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,639
Speaker 1: with a subscription too Little Passports kids get a fun

12
00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:43,720
Speaker 1: filled package every month designed to inspire their curiosity in geography,

13
00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,960
Speaker 1: which we all need to be better at, I think

14
00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,400
Speaker 1: world cultures or science, and it's great for kids of

15
00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,680
Speaker 1: all ages. In fact, do you think they'd send a

16
00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 1: Little Passports subscription to a sixty one year old? I

17
00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,120
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe they will order today for holiday delivery

18
00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,080
Speaker 1: at Little Passports dot com. Slash Katie that's Little Passports

19
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:10,440
Speaker 1: dot com slash k T. I E Hi Brian, Hi Katie.

20
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,600
Speaker 1: I cannot believe, Brian, this year is coming to an end.

21
00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:16,839
Speaker 1: In subways, it seemed as if it would never be over.

22
00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,319
Speaker 1: Like a bad movie, if you know what I'm saying.

23
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,919
Speaker 1: In other ways, time flies when you're having fun, and Brian,

24
00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,240
Speaker 1: the older you get, the faster time flies. It seems well,

25
00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:33,720
Speaker 1: you're younger than Springtime, Katie, younger than springtime? Are you

26
00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:39,479
Speaker 1: gayer than laughter? Are you? I promise we didn't plan

27
00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,080
Speaker 1: this anyway. As the year comes to a close, we're

28
00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,920
Speaker 1: gonna look back at the biggest names, the biggest moments,

29
00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:48,640
Speaker 1: and the biggest trends of But there's too much to

30
00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,960
Speaker 1: cram into one episode, so we're doing this in two parts,

31
00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,320
Speaker 1: splitting up the year into five count them five different themes.

32
00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:01,120
Speaker 1: Today's episode, we're starting by tackling the year in pop culture.

33
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,240
Speaker 1: Will be chatting with Jia Tolentino of The New Yorker

34
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,720
Speaker 1: and Ira Madison of the podcast Keep It. Then we'll

35
00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:11,120
Speaker 1: talk about lgbt Q issues with Dan Savage of The

36
00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:14,880
Speaker 1: Savage Love Cast, among many other things, and Sarah McBride

37
00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,520
Speaker 1: from the Human Rights Campaign. And finally we'll get to

38
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:21,360
Speaker 1: talk about race with Chamel Bowie from Slate and Maria

39
00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:25,600
Speaker 1: Inajosa from Latino USA. Next week, we're gonna look back

40
00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:28,280
Speaker 1: at the year in climate change and who better to

41
00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,200
Speaker 1: do that with than Al Gore, and we're also going

42
00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,079
Speaker 1: to have a chance to talk news and politics with

43
00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,120
Speaker 1: Michael Barbarrow from the Daily podcast from the New York Times.

44
00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:41,120
Speaker 1: We can't wait, but let's start with pop culture, which

45
00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,280
Speaker 1: we all know. Brian is your bread and butter. Oh,

46
00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 1: for sure, you love Regis, Philbin, Frank Sinatra, you know

47
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:54,280
Speaker 1: the hottest names. He really is on top of things everyone.

48
00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,919
Speaker 1: But as we mentioned, we're talking to two cultural critics

49
00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:01,400
Speaker 1: for this conversation. Gia tole Tino writes for The New Yorker.

50
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,560
Speaker 1: You might have read her masterpiece article on millennials earlier

51
00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,760
Speaker 1: this year, or maybe her piece about Jewel not the

52
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,400
Speaker 1: singer the electronic cigarette. I like her because she's a

53
00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:16,520
Speaker 1: u v a alum wahua. Everybody's definitely my favorite UV alone.

54
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,119
Speaker 1: I'm kidding, Katie. And then Ira Madison is here. He's

55
00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,480
Speaker 1: the host of Crooked Media's pop culture podcast, which is

56
00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,079
Speaker 1: called Keep It. He's also a writer on a new

57
00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:31,280
Speaker 1: Netflix teen sci fi drama dy called Daybreak, which is

58
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,040
Speaker 1: debuting next year and no relation to Billy apparently. So

59
00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 1: when Ira and Jia come into the studio, I swear

60
00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,000
Speaker 1: to god we haven't been talking for three minutes when

61
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,280
Speaker 1: the biggest name of the year came up, Arianna Grande.

62
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,440
Speaker 1: Of course, are you expecting me to say someone else, Brian, Yeah,

63
00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:49,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. I I I was expecting you to

64
00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,040
Speaker 1: say somebody whose name rhymes with drump I don't know,

65
00:03:52,160 --> 00:03:55,320
Speaker 1: just made more Mitch McConnell, or somebody in your or book.

66
00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,560
Speaker 1: Well that's where we started with gianne Ira, and they

67
00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:01,280
Speaker 1: went crazy, by the way, and then we got to

68
00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:04,080
Speaker 1: some other big names, big moments and big trends and

69
00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:17,039
Speaker 1: pop culture from two thousand eighteen. Listen, I know you've

70
00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,520
Speaker 1: been following Ariana Grande very religiously on her Instagram feed.

71
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:25,160
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of your lives. I want to

72
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,440
Speaker 1: say for the record that she's always been funnier than

73
00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,600
Speaker 1: Pete really. Oh yeah, look on our Instagram she has.

74
00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,479
Speaker 1: She did this fake wildlife video in Australia when she

75
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,800
Speaker 1: was on tour, pitch perfect Australian accent. She's good. I

76
00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:40,039
Speaker 1: haven't seen prints on a few days. My you know

77
00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:44,760
Speaker 1: what that means might be open for young friends. You

78
00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:47,919
Speaker 1: might be did as mates. Let's talk about her a

79
00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,680
Speaker 1: little bit more, and we're going to talk about other

80
00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:53,400
Speaker 1: big names that we really witnessed in the pop culture

81
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,040
Speaker 1: landscape this year. Gosh, it's funny. People kind of come

82
00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,520
Speaker 1: and go, don't they. But she's still white hot right now.

83
00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,840
Speaker 1: So let's talk about Ariana. Why is she? Why does

84
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,400
Speaker 1: she have such a hold on people at this moment

85
00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:10,320
Speaker 1: in time? She's funny, said, you know, she's all I

86
00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,760
Speaker 1: thought the doughnut licking incident was funny. She's gonna hear

87
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:17,240
Speaker 1: us since she was slamming, really because to me, that

88
00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:20,080
Speaker 1: was so embarrassing. But you guys think that brought her

89
00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,680
Speaker 1: a lot of street grad I think it's embarrassing young people.

90
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,599
Speaker 1: Ourselves probably we identified strongly with what it would be

91
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,680
Speaker 1: like to be drunk in a donut chop, try to

92
00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,599
Speaker 1: eat a doughnut and say I hate America at that

93
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:32,880
Speaker 1: particular stressful point in time. You know, I've been a

94
00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,280
Speaker 1: fan of Arianna since the first album. Yours truly like she.

95
00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,600
Speaker 1: The thing about her is that she's been just slowly

96
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,560
Speaker 1: her star has been slowly, slowly rising. She was pitched

97
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,240
Speaker 1: at the beginning, as you know, sort of like a

98
00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,200
Speaker 1: baby Mariah Carey, which didn't really do her any favors.

99
00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:54,640
Speaker 1: That they even had her do like a cover of emotions.

100
00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:13,840
Speaker 1: She has vocals, She's incredibly challenged. She's so little. How

101
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,960
Speaker 1: can that big voice come out with she? You know,

102
00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:18,279
Speaker 1: the first couple of albums, you know, it was it

103
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,880
Speaker 1: was very retrou She kind of seemed like a songbird.

104
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,960
Speaker 1: She didn't enunciate very clearly at all. One of my

105
00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:27,640
Speaker 1: old colleagues a Rota post that was like, girl, Arianna,

106
00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:31,800
Speaker 1: what are you even talking about? Girl? But on Sweetener,

107
00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I love the album. I think it's great

108
00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,680
Speaker 1: to it. I love that she worked with Para Williams

109
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,279
Speaker 1: and Max Martin U sort of like a throwback to

110
00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,000
Speaker 1: the pop people. But g and I probably grew up

111
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,360
Speaker 1: with what up with this whole thing with Pete Davidson

112
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,240
Speaker 1: helped me understand this. So they got engaged after you know,

113
00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,039
Speaker 1: three months or something, and I think one of the

114
00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:51,960
Speaker 1: it was more like three weeks or something like that.

115
00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,599
Speaker 1: And the reason why, I think one of the reasons

116
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,920
Speaker 1: that it grabbed people's attention was that Arianna has had

117
00:06:56,960 --> 00:06:59,320
Speaker 1: a wild year. You know, she had the Manchester bombing.

118
00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,760
Speaker 1: And Pete Davidson has also had quite a life. I mean,

119
00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,760
Speaker 1: his dad died in nine eleven, and it's sort of

120
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:12,080
Speaker 1: this ultra millennial like bonding based on trauma and sort

121
00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:14,400
Speaker 1: of the perceived imminent end of the world, which is

122
00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 1: the thing hovering over all of pop culture. And also,

123
00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,480
Speaker 1: you know, they're both really funny and they both knew

124
00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,600
Speaker 1: how to talk about their relationship in a way that

125
00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,600
Speaker 1: it was more candid than you normally get out of people.

126
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:26,960
Speaker 1: It was destined to fail, but it seems like it was.

127
00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,120
Speaker 1: It was it was accelerated by the death of her

128
00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:34,600
Speaker 1: former boyfriend. Yeah, that was really sad. Can you tell

129
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:37,680
Speaker 1: to explain that to our listeners. Her former boyfriend was

130
00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 1: Mac Miller, who was a rapper I really enjoyed and

131
00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:44,680
Speaker 1: also someone that steadily got better and better and better.

132
00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,800
Speaker 1: I didn't always like him, but by the end, Yeah,

133
00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 1: like his last album was fantastic. Um. He's a person

134
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,840
Speaker 1: who struggled with you know, addiction issues, um over the years,

135
00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:59,160
Speaker 1: and once this relapse happened, Um, I think that was

136
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:04,240
Speaker 1: just one more trauma tossed into Ariana's life. The opioid

137
00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,320
Speaker 1: crysis has come to music. Really. You know, Tom Petty, Prince,

138
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,760
Speaker 1: Mac Miller, and Little People died from ventinyl overdoses. That's

139
00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:16,000
Speaker 1: a lot. Okay, we're gonna take a bit of a turn,

140
00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:17,960
Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk about somebody else with a lot

141
00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,920
Speaker 1: going on in Kylie Jenner, who was, among other things,

142
00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,720
Speaker 1: on the cover of Forbes for being self made potentially

143
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:32,320
Speaker 1: quote self made youngest billionaire. So is she self made? Not?

144
00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:37,280
Speaker 1: By my definition? Scratch that take um. I think coming

145
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:41,400
Speaker 1: from incredible family wealth does not negate being hard working

146
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,960
Speaker 1: and having a extremely sharp instinct as all those women

147
00:08:45,000 --> 00:08:48,400
Speaker 1: do for what how you can monetize identity and beauty

148
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:53,240
Speaker 1: and female personhood in in this age. I think people

149
00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,160
Speaker 1: often mistake I worked hard for I'm self made, And

150
00:08:57,600 --> 00:08:59,880
Speaker 1: to me, those are quite different, especially since her brand

151
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,400
Speaker 1: is just sort of herself. It seems like all of

152
00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:07,040
Speaker 1: this came from her person. But it's like you wouldn't

153
00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,760
Speaker 1: it is true, but you also wouldn't put like a

154
00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,680
Speaker 1: Rockefeller on forums and say that they're self made. Let's

155
00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,079
Speaker 1: talk about some other boldface names that got a lot

156
00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,560
Speaker 1: of attention this year. Donald Glover, I mean childish gampino

157
00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,840
Speaker 1: that he to me, had such a breakthrough moment and

158
00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,400
Speaker 1: he was obviously making a lot of noise people were

159
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:30,319
Speaker 1: noticing Atlanta, but this brought him to a new level

160
00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:33,520
Speaker 1: didn't it Ira, Yeah, I mean there was Atlanta, it

161
00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:36,720
Speaker 1: was that this is America. I've listened to his music before,

162
00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:42,480
Speaker 1: and you know, a lot of it was sort of soundcloudy. Yeah,

163
00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:45,000
Speaker 1: He's he's um. That's the theme with a lot of

164
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,920
Speaker 1: artists this year. Actually, I feel like they've been getting better.

165
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:51,040
Speaker 1: This was you know, just sort of him dipping into

166
00:09:51,720 --> 00:09:55,720
Speaker 1: soul music a bit more. And it just really came

167
00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:59,600
Speaker 1: out in a time when you know, people were willing

168
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:03,880
Speaker 1: to talk about politics and music and also and race.

169
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,040
Speaker 1: But also the video it's just so vivid and grim

170
00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,280
Speaker 1: and I don't personally love the video. I don't. I

171
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,240
Speaker 1: don't like it when when stuff is I mean, everyone

172
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,680
Speaker 1: is hungry for stuff that's of the moment, but it's

173
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:32,720
Speaker 1: so on the nose. Having said that, it did make

174
00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,360
Speaker 1: such a huge impression. I mean it was everywhere. You

175
00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,719
Speaker 1: couldn't avoid it. Why did that catch such fire at

176
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,040
Speaker 1: that moment in time? In your view era, it's made

177
00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:45,120
Speaker 1: for people to talk about it. You know, it's him

178
00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,679
Speaker 1: shooting um other black people in the video, it's him

179
00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:53,080
Speaker 1: waring Confederate stob trousers, right, and some of the symbolism

180
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,360
Speaker 1: I think people enjoy when they have to kind of

181
00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,960
Speaker 1: peel away some of these things that are not necessarily

182
00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:02,840
Speaker 1: over or too obvious, and I think people had fun

183
00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,439
Speaker 1: kind of looking for the hidden meaning. Some not hidden obviously,

184
00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,120
Speaker 1: but you know, the horse, the person on the horse

185
00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,000
Speaker 1: riding by, and all those other things. I mean, it's

186
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:15,280
Speaker 1: the reason why drake klungs are so popular too. You know,

187
00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:18,400
Speaker 1: like you have to capitalize on the fact that there's

188
00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,720
Speaker 1: so much content now and if you make a song,

189
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,480
Speaker 1: if you make a music video that people can dissect online,

190
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,000
Speaker 1: it's going to help your song be better and sort

191
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,720
Speaker 1: of way through. And you know, with such a violent

192
00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,360
Speaker 1: video like that, and then you put some imagery in there,

193
00:11:35,760 --> 00:11:38,840
Speaker 1: people were going to be talking about it. Another performance

194
00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,199
Speaker 1: that really captured people's imaginations this year was Beyonce's at

195
00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:48,880
Speaker 1: Coach Can you talk a little Well, I'm from Texas,

196
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,600
Speaker 1: I'm from Houston. You know, first time I saw Destiny

197
00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:53,600
Speaker 1: Child was at the Rodeo in seventh grade, so you know,

198
00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,679
Speaker 1: I've been there from the beginning. I saw them at

199
00:11:55,720 --> 00:12:00,880
Speaker 1: the Milwaukee Summer Fest. That was great, was at Beach

200
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,800
Speaker 1: Ella and it was I'm feeling it now. I just

201
00:12:05,720 --> 00:12:09,280
Speaker 1: I mean, she's the first black woman to ever headline Coachella.

202
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:13,320
Speaker 1: That's wild. How did it take so long? It's also

203
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,760
Speaker 1: weird because you know, I was never a big coach

204
00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,360
Speaker 1: Ella person before, and you know, actually that's why. And

205
00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:24,680
Speaker 1: looking looking back, right, it was always just the whitest place.

206
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,880
Speaker 1: But then, you know, I feel like when Kanye performed

207
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,880
Speaker 1: a few years ago, like they started shifting more towards

208
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,400
Speaker 1: like hip hop acts and things and less white people

209
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:35,920
Speaker 1: playing music on the desk. So one of the reasons

210
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,520
Speaker 1: it was so extraordinary was that Beyonce didn't do it

211
00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,240
Speaker 1: on Coachella's terms, right, she did it all on her

212
00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,200
Speaker 1: term she put on. She was sort of like performing

213
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,319
Speaker 1: musicology in real time. She One of the things that's

214
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,199
Speaker 1: extraordinary about her is that the way you know, she

215
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:51,400
Speaker 1: was really dismissed early in her career is just kind

216
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,880
Speaker 1: of producing generic pop stuff. But here you see in

217
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 1: a set like this, she's reinterpreting all of these old, old,

218
00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,960
Speaker 1: old songs in the language of a New Orleans set

219
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:03,000
Speaker 1: in line in the language of you know, of like Houston, Texas,

220
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,760
Speaker 1: like chopped and screwed, dirty rap. It's like she is

221
00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,440
Speaker 1: making this this long line of tradition that she has

222
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,240
Speaker 1: been working within Come Alive, and she did it so beautifully.

223
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,160
Speaker 1: It seems to me that she and jay Z have

224
00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:18,520
Speaker 1: really mastered the art of being famous. You know, she's

225
00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:21,600
Speaker 1: the only person who could take over Vogue magazine and

226
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,800
Speaker 1: have full editorial control. Do you see any danger in

227
00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:27,679
Speaker 1: her power? Well, I don't think any celebrities should be

228
00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,360
Speaker 1: able to take over get editorial control over magazine, but

229
00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:33,520
Speaker 1: it does seem to be the way that we're headed. Yeah.

230
00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:37,199
Speaker 1: You know Oprah's interview with Michelle Obama, you know, and like, oh,

231
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,000
Speaker 1: you know, it seems like we're towards the celebrities interviewing

232
00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:43,080
Speaker 1: and there was like the one of the worst ones

233
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:44,800
Speaker 1: was like I'm a Stone and Jennifer Lawrence. They were

234
00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, you're so pretty, and it

235
00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:51,760
Speaker 1: was like, you know, actually, this is why the interview

236
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,320
Speaker 1: magazine model. Do you remember, interview has a place right

237
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:57,520
Speaker 1: because they would do it at a certain angle right

238
00:13:57,559 --> 00:13:59,240
Speaker 1: like they would they would get they would match people

239
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:01,360
Speaker 1: up in the ways. That's sometimes you know, those those

240
00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,119
Speaker 1: conversations be interesting. But isn't it important to have editorial

241
00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,040
Speaker 1: control and an editorial voice so that celebrities don't take

242
00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,439
Speaker 1: over the world. Yeah, I thought like a good version

243
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:15,280
Speaker 1: of that was Timothy Shallaba being interviewed by Harry S. Yeah,

244
00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,000
Speaker 1: it was, Yes, it was like they're both in a

245
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,880
Speaker 1: certain space in pop culture and we benefited from hearing

246
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,320
Speaker 1: them talk to each other. Another person who seemed to

247
00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:35,000
Speaker 1: have a huge year was Tiffany Hattish. She's amazing. Yeah,

248
00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,200
Speaker 1: why do you think that she burst onto the scene

249
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,400
Speaker 1: in such a huge way. Comedy was sort of needing

250
00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 1: a voice like hers. Some people have tried to lodge

251
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,320
Speaker 1: it on plaint, you know that, like, oh, she's almost

252
00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,200
Speaker 1: the same in every movie, But that's what people want.

253
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,200
Speaker 1: You let people do that before, and it can work

254
00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,520
Speaker 1: if they're we like them. Hollywood studio system was built.

255
00:14:56,040 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 1: You know exactly what you're going to get from a

256
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:00,800
Speaker 1: gin Cali movie. We've gone from big names and now

257
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,280
Speaker 1: we want to just talk about some big moments of

258
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,960
Speaker 1: the year. One was Oprah and her her Time's up

259
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:09,600
Speaker 1: me to speech at the Golden Globes. So I want

260
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,440
Speaker 1: all the girls watching here now to know that a

261
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:22,360
Speaker 1: new day is on the horizon, and when that new

262
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:31,080
Speaker 1: day finally dawned, it will be because of a lot

263
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:35,320
Speaker 1: of magnificent women. Many of them are right here in

264
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:40,760
Speaker 1: this room tonight and some pretty phenomenal men. Was that

265
00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:43,000
Speaker 1: as significant as people are making it out to be.

266
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,320
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I've almost forgotten she gave

267
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:51,640
Speaker 1: that speech until now. Um, I think that it didn't

268
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:58,040
Speaker 1: have that much impact within the overall music day is

269
00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,560
Speaker 1: on the horizon. For my money, you know, I hate

270
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,280
Speaker 1: a word shows. I don't watch them for my money.

271
00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 1: The most impactful moment at an award show was Franz

272
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,400
Speaker 1: McDorman introducing the world to the concept of the inclusion writer,

273
00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,520
Speaker 1: which nobody uses, which people are starting to use though,

274
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,800
Speaker 1: or yeah yeah, yeah yeah. Michael B. Jordan's company uses

275
00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:19,000
Speaker 1: that women are writing things clauses about nudity in their contracts,

276
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,560
Speaker 1: like there there's stuff there is like that structural sort

277
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,560
Speaker 1: of legal protection is ramping up in that to me

278
00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:27,760
Speaker 1: means a lot more than whatever rhetorics someone says it

279
00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:30,240
Speaker 1: a speech, you know, at an award show that will

280
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,600
Speaker 1: get reaggregated everywhere for three days and then everyone will

281
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:35,520
Speaker 1: forget about it. You've written so much about me too,

282
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,320
Speaker 1: and Time's up And now Times Up has a new CEO,

283
00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,640
Speaker 1: Lisa Borders, who came from the w n B A

284
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people in art, business and media have

285
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:50,080
Speaker 1: lost their jobs and been banished. And I'm curious, have

286
00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,320
Speaker 1: you seen the movement go from activism to activation because

287
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,720
Speaker 1: I keep waiting for concrete things that are happening in

288
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,320
Speaker 1: sort of a bunch of arenas, and I don't really

289
00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,639
Speaker 1: see it. I do think that for me always the

290
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:08,080
Speaker 1: question about me too, which is again you know, started

291
00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:10,400
Speaker 1: by Toronto Brick a long time before this last year.

292
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:12,640
Speaker 1: There's been so much conversation about what's going to happen

293
00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,800
Speaker 1: to these men. There's been so much focus about these

294
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,440
Speaker 1: men and they attempts to make a comeback and their

295
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,120
Speaker 1: feelings over the past year, and to me, it obscures

296
00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:21,640
Speaker 1: the fact that, you know, like women couldn't get credit

297
00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 1: cards on their own until the seventies, right like, we

298
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,000
Speaker 1: are still a long way away from change that will

299
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,639
Speaker 1: feel satisfying. We are still in the cycle of backlash.

300
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,439
Speaker 1: Like you know, the Kavanaugh confirmation was I think partly

301
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:34,679
Speaker 1: a response to me to the fact that Republican support

302
00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:38,000
Speaker 1: for him went up during the hearing. Means a lot.

303
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,840
Speaker 1: And so from the beginning, I've just tried, you know,

304
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 1: as a young person who always expected that I would

305
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,359
Speaker 1: be equal and has over the last few years, have

306
00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 1: been realizing that a lot of the country doesn't, you know,

307
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,560
Speaker 1: want things to be that way. I know, isn't that

308
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:55,040
Speaker 1: a sad revelation, But I'm but I feel lucky to

309
00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:56,639
Speaker 1: have been to be young enough that I grew up

310
00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,600
Speaker 1: expecting it, which not is not the case for a

311
00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,760
Speaker 1: lot of older generations. And I've just tried to remember

312
00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,239
Speaker 1: that change is going to be slow. It's always it's

313
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,399
Speaker 1: always been slow, it's always been uneven, and you have

314
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:07,879
Speaker 1: to keep your foot on the gas. You have to

315
00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,560
Speaker 1: keep your foot on the gas. And to me, you know,

316
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,600
Speaker 1: like what what matters the things that the media ends

317
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:13,520
Speaker 1: up talking about with me too, is not again where

318
00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:16,800
Speaker 1: the change happen is the change happens in different language

319
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 1: and contracts, and the change happens in HR meetings, and

320
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,680
Speaker 1: the change happens in hiring. Well, isn't it progress that

321
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,240
Speaker 1: a lot of bad actors have gotten fired and the

322
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,520
Speaker 1: message has sort of gone out that this behavior is unacceptable.

323
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,880
Speaker 1: But I think we're seeing again, I think we're seeing

324
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,919
Speaker 1: the backlash and again, you know, what happens to people

325
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:34,760
Speaker 1: who have done things that are wrong? Is not that

326
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,679
Speaker 1: important to me, what's important is the structures that are

327
00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,600
Speaker 1: in place to make to make things more equal within

328
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:43,560
Speaker 1: the institution that those people got kicked out of, particularly

329
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,280
Speaker 1: because you know, there's so many people like Louis c

330
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,320
Speaker 1: k or something get to come back because one they're successful,

331
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,600
Speaker 1: and you know there within still this echo chamber of

332
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,439
Speaker 1: a fan base who will support them no matter what

333
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,399
Speaker 1: they do. And you know a lot of people in

334
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 1: the industry talk about how much time do we have

335
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,399
Speaker 1: to wait for this person to be out of the

336
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 1: spotlight before they come back? And I think as long

337
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:13,760
Speaker 1: as people keep focusing on that instead of changing things, um,

338
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 1: Hollywood is just it's really just sort of an ebb

339
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,600
Speaker 1: and flow right now. I don't think anything really structural

340
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:24,480
Speaker 1: is happening aside from the way that we're talking about.

341
00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,000
Speaker 1: We're still talking about it, and that's a good thing.

342
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,280
Speaker 1: So let's talk about Kanye in the Oval office with

343
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:32,359
Speaker 1: President Trump. You know, people expect that if you're black,

344
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,920
Speaker 1: you have to be democratic. I have a I've have

345
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 1: conversations that basically said that welfare is the reason why

346
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 1: a lot of black people end up being democratic. Say,

347
00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 1: you know, if that was a big moment, what did

348
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,919
Speaker 1: you make of it. I've been I've been of the

349
00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,960
Speaker 1: opinion very strongly for the last ever since social media happened.

350
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,199
Speaker 1: Is that, you know, I mean, I think we'd all

351
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:57,359
Speaker 1: be better off if we made celebrity opinions matter much less. Um.

352
00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 1: It's interesting. It's like this year has been just like

353
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,159
Speaker 1: the it's the it's the revision of the Kanye Taylor

354
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 1: VMA's feud where where Taylor finally spoke up about politics,

355
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,760
Speaker 1: urge people to vote, urge them to vote for a Democrat.

356
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,800
Speaker 1: But then Kanye ended up in the White House talking,

357
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,119
Speaker 1: you know, wearing a Maga hat, And to me, it

358
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,959
Speaker 1: was like, maybe we shouldn't look to celebrities for our

359
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,119
Speaker 1: It's also the fun hypocrisy of it too, because you know,

360
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 1: it's the conservatives of the right are often talking about

361
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,520
Speaker 1: how they don't want celebrities chogging and on politics, but

362
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 1: it's usually just when celebrities are telling people to vote

363
00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 1: for Democrats. Uh, as soon as the celebrity hops over

364
00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,919
Speaker 1: at wants to you know, wear a Maga hat, um,

365
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,119
Speaker 1: then we should be listening to that celebrity's opinion. But

366
00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,879
Speaker 1: now he's disavowed Donald Yeah, because he was in a

367
00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 1: manic episode and then uh yeah, I mean it's really regretful.

368
00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,159
Speaker 1: Kanye has fallen off harder than any I mean, Kanye,

369
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,720
Speaker 1: it's one of the best producers, like one of most

370
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,639
Speaker 1: influential musicians of this era, and this new album that

371
00:20:56,680 --> 00:20:59,240
Speaker 1: he put out is awful, and and his his work

372
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 1: got bad, everything else got bad at the same time.

373
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,440
Speaker 1: And to me, the when he went to the White House,

374
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,719
Speaker 1: it didn't mean anything because again, like I try not

375
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 1: to think that it means like hanging on to every

376
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,960
Speaker 1: single word that Kanye said about politics at any point

377
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,040
Speaker 1: is never going to be particularly helpful to the discourse

378
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:17,199
Speaker 1: or anything. If you've been a fan of Kanye, you

379
00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,880
Speaker 1: know that he has never really been great are issues

380
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:25,160
Speaker 1: of politics, you know, on um even misogyny towards black

381
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,640
Speaker 1: women in his music and things. And it's just sort

382
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: of once he came to this place, it was sort

383
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:38,600
Speaker 1: of expected. It's sort of exactly what promised us with celebrities,

384
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 1: Like there's a direct line between Beyonce taking control of

385
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 1: Vogue and Kanye is sort of putting himself out there

386
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,159
Speaker 1: in front of everyone because I think that he was,

387
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,320
Speaker 1: you know, trying to magically control his own image and

388
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,840
Speaker 1: you know, fix the fact that you know, creatively, um,

389
00:21:57,880 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 1: he was a bit in a slump. There is a

390
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 1: direct line also to Kim Kardashian, you know, got Alice

391
00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,159
Speaker 1: Johnson released from prison, right And it's like all of

392
00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:10,400
Speaker 1: this is happening on an individual charisma, celebrity based situation

393
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,800
Speaker 1: where this is like not helpful. We should be speaking

394
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,359
Speaker 1: broadly about what happens needs to happen with criminal justice

395
00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 1: reform instead of Kim Kardashian marching in and getting clemency

396
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 1: for one person. I mean, it's just such a distraction

397
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: from the actual basis of change. And having said that,

398
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: you know, I think that certainly so many celebrities have

399
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:34,080
Speaker 1: felt compelled in and this trump you know environment we're

400
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 1: living in to speak out on female empowerment, to speak

401
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,400
Speaker 1: out about gun violence, and in a way, I think

402
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 1: they're they've been a very powerful force to spur and

403
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,920
Speaker 1: motivate and galvanize the whole segment of the population to

404
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:51,200
Speaker 1: get more involved in the election results. The gun lobby

405
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,879
Speaker 1: isn't nearly as powerful a factor as it used to

406
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,639
Speaker 1: be in elections. I mean, maybe all the voices speaking

407
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 1: out on that issue had some effects. So is it

408
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: positive in some ways. Sure, Yeah, I think it's positive

409
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 1: if you're using your voice to talk about vote egg

410
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,160
Speaker 1: and you know, gut control at people who were talking

411
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: about about voter suppression and things like that. But I think,

412
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: as Gas said, you know, like a spectacle of I'm

413
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: showing up to the White House and getting one thing

414
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 1: done isn't really helpful to anybody, And it really just

415
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 1: creates a lot of noise and people arguing back and forth.

416
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,320
Speaker 1: And as you know, you can live by the tweet

417
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: and die by the tweet. As Roseanne bar tragically showed

418
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: us in two thousand eighteen, I think it was tragic

419
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: that a she felt the way she felt, that she

420
00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: said the things she said. You know, it occupied so

421
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: much space in the news cycle, right, I mean, I like,

422
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: I agree with that months and it's like why it's

423
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,000
Speaker 1: one person is horrible. I mean, you know, even the

424
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 1: fact it's good that Rosanne got called out on what

425
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: she said, but even that swallowed so much air. I

426
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,000
Speaker 1: think people need to make sure before they press sent

427
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 1: that they really consider what they're saying or what they're doing.

428
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: Case in point, you know, Megan Kelly, there was a

429
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: controversy on the Real Housewives of New York with Luanne

430
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,920
Speaker 1: as she dresses Diana Ross and she made her skin

431
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: look darker than it really is, and people said that

432
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,479
Speaker 1: that was racist, And I don't know, I felt like,

433
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: who doesn't love Diana Ross? She wants to look like

434
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 1: Diana Ross for one day. I don't know how like

435
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: that got racist on Hollow when I haven't seen it now.

436
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 1: It wasn't on social media, but social media was what

437
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,680
Speaker 1: drummed up the opposition to end her talk show, which

438
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,080
Speaker 1: is funny, you know, because she had said that when

439
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 1: she said that, I mean, and also it seems like

440
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,879
Speaker 1: that's the irony of Megan Kelly. Yeah. Yeah, she'd been

441
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: saying she said way more racist stuff than victims of

442
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 1: police violence. When John Oliver did that mash up of

443
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 1: all the things that she had said on Fox before

444
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,520
Speaker 1: her show even debuted, I thought, Wow, do have to

445
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:05,239
Speaker 1: wonder did NBC look at her work before? You know,

446
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: they wanted her to be a provocateur. They wanted, you know,

447
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: and she is. But the thing is, and how can

448
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 1: you be a provocateur at nine o'clock in the morning

449
00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: that you do not want to best in morning television?

450
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:17,959
Speaker 1: Trust me? I know this terrible her energy, her energy,

451
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: which was useful on Fox News was and she was

452
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: the reasonable one, you know, in relative to Fox News,

453
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: and she her energy is that of a prosecutor like

454
00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: she She's not a good listener. That hour was successful

455
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: before she joined No Fair. But it was just sort

456
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: of weird to think that people and it was too

457
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: African American house who were both paid less combined, well,

458
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: everybody on that show that they hired her for just

459
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 1: this wild contract that I was because she was on

460
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: the cover of Vanity Fair and she was a new

461
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 1: shiny object, a girl. True, but I think it was

462
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: always weird to think that, you know, m viewers U

463
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: that morning show, we're ever going to go for her

464
00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: bread of Fox, you know, otherwise as they would be

465
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 1: watching Fox. Well, we can't talk about big moments the

466
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 1: year without talking about the Royal wedding, which, on one level,

467
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 1: although I just got to four eye rolls, I'm going

468
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: to just find the Royal Wedding for a second. On

469
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: one level, it was a traditional royal wedding. On another level,

470
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: it was revolutionary because you had a divorced black American

471
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 1: actress being warmly embraced and accepted by the most traditional,

472
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,800
Speaker 1: hide bound institution perhaps in the world outside of maybe

473
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: the Saudis, as he melted any skepticism. Well, you know,

474
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: Philip's sister was a Nazi. I mean like there is

475
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: Nazis had a number of relatives. There was already diversity

476
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 1: in the royal family. I mean, you know, like there,

477
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,240
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, I mean sure. It's like Megan Markle.

478
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 1: I think she's like immensely like adorable and charismatic. I

479
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 1: personally can't get behind like something like a royal wedding

480
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: ever being anything like revolutionary because of how I feel

481
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: about institutions and weddings. But Megan uncle is incredibly charming,

482
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,159
Speaker 1: And you know, I hope that the you know whatever,

483
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: remember the family that wore that, you know, like Sambo

484
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 1: brooch to Oh yeah, that was bad. But I think

485
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: the look the royal family reflects the culture. They're not

486
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: going to lead the culture, and it says something very

487
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: good about the culture that this is where they felt

488
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: they had to be when Harry decided to marry her.

489
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: And let's face it, my favorite moment was when the

490
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 1: choirs saying stand by me, and they just did not

491
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: know what to do. I mean, I thought the wedding

492
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,320
Speaker 1: was beautiful. I love a wedding. I enjoy the fact

493
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: that it was a somewhat nice fairytale story for us

494
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:42,640
Speaker 1: to talk about the mystery that but you know, yeah,

495
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: they're still not it's connected to the family, you know.

496
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: And she'll never be able to go outside with bare legs,

497
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 1: no pantyhose. You know, we skirt above the knee again.

498
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:55,480
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's it's a mixed one. Actually, yeah,

499
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: she she's got to wear pantyhose. She can't wear sports.

500
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: And I wouldn't marry him for that, you know what

501
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: I mean. Like she she's actually making its listened by

502
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: the ghosts of colonial of but listen, maybe she will

503
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: be able to usher in more change. And she's been

504
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:13,560
Speaker 1: a little um. She's spoken out and out about certain things.

505
00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:18,199
Speaker 1: It's great, and so Megan like, let's get I like

506
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: I like that photo of them laughing together. I thought

507
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,120
Speaker 1: that was really cute. All right, We've got to go

508
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,680
Speaker 1: over some big themes of two thousand eighteen. One big

509
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:30,199
Speaker 1: theme is diversity in movies. You know, we had crazy

510
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: rich Asians, which I hated personally. I thought it was

511
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: so dumb. We have black Panther, which it feel like

512
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: it I know, I know, is that crazy love Simon

513
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: call me by your name. So do you think that

514
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 1: we're starting to open up in terms of our expectations

515
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: and movies and how did you feel about all those

516
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: kind of steps seeing the change towards diversity is feeling

517
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: less like people really feeling like we need to include

518
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: more voices and more lie how can we make how

519
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 1: can we make money at the box office? But also

520
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: turned existing things that we already do into money makers.

521
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's MythBuster though, because there was this idea

522
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 1: for a long time all black person can't lead a movie,

523
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,239
Speaker 1: an Asian person can't headline a movie. You know that

524
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: there was a sort of an economic excuse that people made,

525
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 1: which turns out is totally false. And thank god that

526
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: this year bus did that open I will say, I

527
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: mean one thing, like I didn't love crazy rich Agians either,

528
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: but you know, like one of the things we need,

529
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: you know, every film doesn't have to be Moonlight like

530
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: a genius masterpiece, like we need to let there's so many,

531
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: like you know, kind of run of the mill rom coms.

532
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: We need to let some of them not have only

533
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: white people in it or you know, and it's a

534
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,480
Speaker 1: love that crazy, it's got to just be like a goofy.

535
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: But also there should be many of them so that

536
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: everyone's not hanging their hopes on this movie being a success.

537
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: So another theme this year is reboots. What's Old is

538
00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: New again? Will and Grace, Murphy Brown, a star is

539
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: born of the teenage, which is coming. How can we

540
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: monetize this I P forever? It is kind of doesn't

541
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: speak to the lack of original, new, original ideas that

542
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: we have to keep going back to the well, well,

543
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 1: I think part of it. You know, movies have to

544
00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: do well internationally now to make to turn a profit.

545
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: That's why there's so many action movies with little dialogues, right,

546
00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: and you know, it's literally like, how can we maximize

547
00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 1: the money we have off of our I P by

548
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 1: rebooting everything Like The Kings coming back, Well, that I'm

549
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 1: excited about is incredible, but you know, I think like

550
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: the era of like the all female reboot is pretty

551
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: tired to me. It was pretty tired from the beginning.

552
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: How do you feel about Murphy Brown coming Back? I

553
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 1: didn't watch it. I I was brilliant brilliant, please check

554
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: me out. But John barn was good though. Yeah, now

555
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:01,720
Speaker 1: I us it depends on the product, right, you know.

556
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: I mean with all of these things right, you can

557
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: do you can reinvent something for the sake of market performance.

558
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: You can have a craven but ultimately you know, like

559
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: well intentioned, you know, rationale, or you can have the

560
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,960
Speaker 1: like kind of dutiful. We should be awoke, now, we

561
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: should be diverse. Both of those things are not They

562
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:21,360
Speaker 1: ring hollow. They ring a little more hollow to an

563
00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 1: audience than the real reason for reinventing someone, which is

564
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: like the Bradley the Bradley Cooper reason for re undering

565
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:30,080
Speaker 1: stars Borne, because like, let's do it again for a deep,

566
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: deep story and character based reason, Let's talk about Anthony

567
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: Bourdain and Kate Spade. It seems to me this was

568
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: a year where people, because of these tragedies, people were

569
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:47,520
Speaker 1: starting to talk about mental health, mental illness, and suicide,

570
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: and people were starting to be a little more forthcoming

571
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: and honest about their own emotional demons. Do you agree,

572
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:57,320
Speaker 1: I do you know? I think that as sad as

573
00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: those events where they got a lot of people talking

574
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: about how we view celebrity culture and how you know,

575
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: social media has sort of put people's emotions bear um

576
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 1: and it's you know, you're still sort of seeing how

577
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: a celebrity can have what you think is a perfect

578
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:21,000
Speaker 1: life that they're showing you out there, but seeing so

579
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,640
Speaker 1: much stuff um just everywhere, might it depresses people. I

580
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: think that has gotten a lot of people online talking

581
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: about mental health and how social media affects us. And

582
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: I think, you know, the Bourdain situation in Kate's Bay

583
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: then also got us talking you know about suicide as well. Yeah,

584
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 1: I think what I always wish for, you know, people

585
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: will post the suicide hotline after these things, and what

586
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: I want is for that organization to be better funded,

587
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: you know. I mean because like at some point, openness

588
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 1: is only as helpful as the resources that are available

589
00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 1: to people when they're in crisis, and we are seeing

590
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,719
Speaker 1: that get tripped away at it, you know, in budgets

591
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: and you know, like the general sort of state of

592
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: health care um and how hard it is to get

593
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 1: for so many people. Um. You know, because talking about

594
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: it is one thing. Getting the help that people needing

595
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: that often doesn't isn't enough to save people. But we

596
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: need people to all have access to it, and that's

597
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: what I hope is the next It's been interesting for

598
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,400
Speaker 1: me to see people like Michael Phelps get involved with

599
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: these online therapy apps, and it feels like people are

600
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: much more open to saying, you know, I'm kind of

601
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,480
Speaker 1: fucked up. We have also, ironically, have this epidemic of

602
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,880
Speaker 1: loneliness despite the fact that we're more connected and on

603
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 1: our phone. I mean, I think that's I mean, this

604
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: is what social media does. It promises connection, but it

605
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: only induces alienation. And I like that. I'm going to

606
00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: use that as my quote card on Monday. I mean, yeah,

607
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: I think on Instagram, but I mean, yeah, but it's not.

608
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 1: It's not ironic. It's not it's not like a strange coincidence.

609
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: It's because these plat forms are not honest about what

610
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: they do. Yet. Well, let's before we go, let's talk

611
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 1: about two thousand nineteen and your predictions for the new year.

612
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 1: What do you think we're going to be talking about, Uh,

613
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: We're we talking about the election, definitely. Um, do you

614
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: think we'll be talking about times at me too continuing

615
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: to make progress or kind of fading out? Oh? Yeah,

616
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: I mean there are too many people that are invested

617
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,799
Speaker 1: in this changing um. But I you know, I do

618
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: think that the backlash against you know, this year of

619
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: listening to women literally just a year, I think it

620
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: may intensify, UM and I think there's a lot that

621
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: might get worse. You know, this time though, it makes

622
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 1: it really hard. I don't know if you guys have

623
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:39,960
Speaker 1: found it, but it makes it really hard to see

624
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 1: into the future. Like the future just seems very I mean,

625
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 1: every week is just so unpredictable and jarring and often

626
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: like deeply traumatizing that you know, like when you can

627
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: expect X number of shootings within the next month. You know,

628
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 1: I think it's very hard to even imagine what a

629
00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: year from now will look like. Like I'm glad, but

630
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 1: I am already glad for whatever albums know and movies

631
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: like good at Yeah, but you're right, in the face

632
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: of gun violence and climate change, some of this seems

633
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:08,759
Speaker 1: a little well, you know. Yeah, And I thought I

634
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 1: interviewed like teenagers a lot for my job because I,

635
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: you know, and I think it's a really interesting time

636
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 1: to be young person in a really hard one because

637
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: they're like, what how are we going to grow up

638
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: in this night? I don't know. Well, hopefully there'll be

639
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,319
Speaker 1: some positive developments in two thousand nineteen in sort of

640
00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: all aspects of our lives a year from now. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully. Well,

641
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: Gia and Ira, thank you guys so much for coming.

642
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: It was really fun to talk to you. It's time

643
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: for a quick break and coming up, we're gonna be

644
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,840
Speaker 1: talking about the biggest names, moments, and trends and l

645
00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,959
Speaker 1: g B t Q issues this year, and then later

646
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,359
Speaker 1: in the show we're going to be talking about race.

647
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: We'll be right back, Brian, how did you sleep last night? Well, Katie,

648
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,560
Speaker 1: I slept very well because the sheets I was sleeping

649
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 1: on were very very comfortable. Were they from Bowland Branch

650
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 1: per chance? How did you guess they were from Bowling Branch?

651
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: Because everything they make, from betting to blankets is made

652
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,560
Speaker 1: from pure organic cotton, which starts out super soft and

653
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: it gets even softer over time. Plus my favorite part,

654
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: by the way, do you think our listeners might be

655
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:26,719
Speaker 1: gathering that I'm a little on the cheap side. You

656
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: can buy directly from them, so you're essentially paying wholesale prices.

657
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 1: No wonder. They have thousands of five star reviews and Forbes,

658
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,400
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal, and Fast Company are all talking

659
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,799
Speaker 1: about them. Try them for thirty nights. If you don't

660
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: love them, you can send them back and get a refund.

661
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: Shipping is even free, but I doubt you'll want to

662
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,239
Speaker 1: send them back to get you started. Right now, our

663
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,240
Speaker 1: listeners get fifty dollars off your first set of sheets

664
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 1: at Bowl and Branch dot com promo code Katie. Go

665
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: to Bowl and Branch dot com for fifty dollars off

666
00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: your first set of sheets. That's Bowl be O l

667
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: L not b O w L b O l L

668
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: and Branch dot com promo code Katie Bowland Branch dot

669
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: com promo code Katie. Now let's get back to the show.

670
00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: In two thousand eighteen, we saw huge milestones for the

671
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,240
Speaker 1: l g B t Q community, but we also saw

672
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: an administration that was hostile in many ways to that

673
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: community and wanted to roll back rights and protections. Honestly, Brian,

674
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: I would say it was a decidedly mixed bag. Well,

675
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: I agree with you on that. Katie. Here to talk

676
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: to us about what happened on this front in are

677
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: Dan Savage and Sarah McBride. Dan has been a guest

678
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,399
Speaker 1: on this show before and a terrific one, I might add.

679
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: He's the host of Savage Love Cast and writes a

680
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: weekly internationally syndicated column called Savage Love. He's also been

681
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 1: an advocate for the gay community for a very long time,

682
00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: including when he started the amazing It Gets Better campaign

683
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: back in twenty I loved Dan. I also love Sarah McBride.

684
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 1: She's just twenty eight years old and she's had an

685
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: incredible life. She came out as transgender when she was

686
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: at American University, where she was the student body president.

687
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: She then went on to become an advocate for her

688
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 1: community and was the first trans person to speak at

689
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 1: a national convention, which she spoke at the d n

690
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: C in Philadelphia. Now, she's the national Press Secretary for

691
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: the Human Rights Campaign and the author of a really

692
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: moving memoir called Tomorrow Will Be Different. Sarah and Dan,

693
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: super Jazz to have you both on the podcast, and

694
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 1: we have a lot to cover about two thousand and

695
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: eighteen and what it meant for LGBTQ people. Let's start

696
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: by talking about some of the biggest names that surfaced

697
00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:52,600
Speaker 1: in two thousand eighteen. Let me start with you, Sarah

698
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 1: Beth Ford. Why was she so significant? Well, Beth Ford

699
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 1: was the first openly gay woman to run a Fortune

700
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 1: five hundred company, which was a huge advancement for lgbt

701
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: Q representation in major companies. Obviously, Tim Cook is an

702
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: incredible inspiring example over at Apple, and it's it's a

703
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: reflection of the fact that l g b t Q

704
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: people are increasingly rising to the top of their respective fields.

705
00:39:18,000 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 1: And when you have openly l g b t Q

706
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 1: people in the c suite, openly l g b t

707
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:27,280
Speaker 1: Q people running companies, it doesn't just send a great

708
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:32,040
Speaker 1: signal to future generations of LGBTQ corporate leaders, but it

709
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:35,439
Speaker 1: also changes the corporate environment, not just companies, but they're

710
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: now running states, specifically Jared Polis, who is the governor

711
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 1: elect of Colorado. Dan, we proved that we're an eclusive

712
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:48,480
Speaker 1: state that values every contribution regardless of someone's sexual orientation

713
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: or gender identities. I read a tweet that said, the

714
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: state where a baker refused to make a wedding cake

715
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: for a gay couple has just elected at a gay governor.

716
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 1: What was your reaction to that election, Dan, I was

717
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 1: thrilled by Jared Polis's election. Uh that night, I wish

718
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: it had been matched with Stacy Abrams election in Georgia

719
00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:14,799
Speaker 1: Andy Gillam's election in Florida. We don't want to leave

720
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 1: Kate Brown off this list though. She's the governor of

721
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: Oregon and she was appointed when the previous governor had

722
00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: to resign. But Kate Brown is bisexual and out and

723
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: was elected in her own right for the first time

724
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,719
Speaker 1: governor of Oregon. So there were two big first for

725
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: LGBT people in the gubernatorial front this election. And speaking

726
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:39,520
Speaker 1: of bisexuals, Kirston Cinema was was elected the Senator from

727
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 1: Arizona and she's going to be the first bisexual senator,

728
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: at least openly bisexual senator. Yeah, and she was one

729
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,920
Speaker 1: of the bright spots in the U S Senate for

730
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 1: pro quality candidates. She ran a really competitive, difficult race

731
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 1: in a in a tough state and pulled it out.

732
00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: She'll joined Tammy Baldwin as now the second openly l

733
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: g B t Q United States Senator. She was in

734
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: the US House prior to UH and she is a

735
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 1: a fierce and um energetic UH public figures. I think

736
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:12,400
Speaker 1: she's gonna be a really interesting person to watch in

737
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: the United States Senate. It's a positive development that people

738
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: who are open about their sexuality and about their gender

739
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 1: identification are now being elected to office. I mean, that's

740
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 1: if there's something to cheer about. This, is it right? Absolutely?

741
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,439
Speaker 1: I mean the last election, everyone talks about the blue

742
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: wave and the pink wave, and those were massive waves,

743
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 1: but there was also a rainbow wave of a record

744
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: number of of openly l g b t Q members

745
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: of the House representatives come January, of LGBTQ people getting

746
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: elected to state legislatures and city councils across the country.

747
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 1: We now have added in addition to Dana Carome who

748
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: was elected in ten and the Commonwealth of Virginia, we

749
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 1: have my state. We now have three more transgender people

750
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:01,880
Speaker 1: who've been elect did two in New Hampshire they have

751
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:03,959
Speaker 1: a large state house with thell have two trans women.

752
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,760
Speaker 1: And then in Colorado they'll not have an openly transgender

753
00:42:06,840 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: person in their state house. So let's talk about some

754
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,239
Speaker 1: of the biggest moments this year related to l g

755
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,360
Speaker 1: b t Q issues, not all of which are encouraging,

756
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 1: but some of them are. One of them, um in

757
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:22,399
Speaker 1: the former category is the Department of Health and Human

758
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:27,640
Speaker 1: Services changing the legal definition of sex. The quote is

759
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: the agency's proposed definition would define sex as either male

760
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: or female, unchangeable and determined by the genitals that a

761
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: person is born with. Um, what's your reaction to that. Well,

762
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 1: this is sadly not a surprising development, and it's obviously

763
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:46,759
Speaker 1: a report that was in the New York Times just

764
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: two weeks before the last election. But it's a reflection

765
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: of actions individual actions this administration has taken over the

766
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: last two years of trying to roll back our progress

767
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,839
Speaker 1: when it comes to the growing legal consensus that LGBTQ

768
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:06,520
Speaker 1: people are protected under federal civil rights laws. Because at

769
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: the end of the day, if you're discriminating against someone

770
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: because of their gender identity or their sexual orientation, you're

771
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: discriminating against them because of gender stereotypes, which is illegal

772
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,520
Speaker 1: sex discrimination. And so, just a couple of weeks after

773
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: taking office, the Trump Pence administration rescinding guidance promoting the

774
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: protection of transgender students under that principle. They have in

775
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,600
Speaker 1: different agencies sought to roll back similar protections. They filed

776
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 1: briefs in front of the uh federal courts that assert

777
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: that they don't believe federal civil rights laws protect LGBTQ

778
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: workers and students and patients. So this is an incredibly

779
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: dangerous action. Uh, it's not surprising that they're considering doing

780
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,600
Speaker 1: it more broadly, and I would have in some cases

781
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: life and death consequences for LGBTQ people. And let's talk

782
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:54,680
Speaker 1: about another decision that Trump administration made, which was to

783
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:59,279
Speaker 1: include same sex partners on the census, but not to

784
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: do a third row accounting of LGBTQ people. Uh. Dan,

785
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 1: when you saw that, did you think this is kind

786
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: of a mixed bag or worse than that? It definitely

787
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: is a mixed bag, and it reinforces, you know, a

788
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 1: negative kind of meme or idea or concept that only uh,

789
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:20,080
Speaker 1: same sex, only queer people who are married matter, Only

790
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 1: people in same sex relationships who have married are important

791
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: or should be counted or recognized. And that's just not true.

792
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: And the biggest concern that I have, even as a

793
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: queer person about the Census is the question that they've

794
00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: added to it ask people whether their citizens or not,

795
00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:40,359
Speaker 1: which is going to result in undercounting a great number

796
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 1: of people who are afraid to have that question put

797
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,719
Speaker 1: to them because they're undocumented or because they're undocumented people

798
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,760
Speaker 1: perhaps living in their house, so they have undocumented family members,

799
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: and it's going to result in an undercount, and it's

800
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 1: gonna result in undercounts in places where queer people tend

801
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: to live in greater numbers, and so it's gonna negatively

802
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,399
Speaker 1: impact you know, how we're represent whether we're legal early

803
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 1: limigrants ourselves or not. And they're a queer legal and

804
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,280
Speaker 1: undocumented immigrants, and that's the real threat to the census

805
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: in my opinion. What about on a state level, what

806
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: happened this year, say in Massachusetts and in North Carolina.

807
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:19,600
Speaker 1: So Massachusetts had a really critical race for for transgender people. Um,

808
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,360
Speaker 1: it became the first state in the nation where trans

809
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: protections separate from protections based on sexual orientation. We're on

810
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 1: the ballot for a public vote. And let me just

811
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 1: start by saying, it's outrageous when a minority groups rights

812
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:34,640
Speaker 1: are ever on the ballot for a popular vote. It

813
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:38,080
Speaker 1: was absurd during the marriage equality referenda, and it was

814
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:42,000
Speaker 1: absurd in Massachusetts. But opponents of equality mustered up enough

815
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: signatures to put protections for transgender people in public spaces

816
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:50,120
Speaker 1: on the ballot. Those are restaurants, hospitals, grocery stores, parks,

817
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: public transportation, and of course bathrooms within those spaces. You know,

818
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,240
Speaker 1: we were nervous because in a lot of other places,

819
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: like Houston, for instance, a couple of years ago, voters

820
00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: have either just barely or actually ended up rescinding protections

821
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: for for transgender people when they've been put on the ballot.

822
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: But fortunately Massachusetts voters came out in November on Question

823
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: three and by a two to one margin voted yes

824
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 1: on three to uphold those protections, which I think was

825
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:22,240
Speaker 1: was really positive nationally because if they had one in Massachusetts,

826
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: which was certainly possible, it would have emboldened their efforts

827
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 1: in other states to try to put trans equality on

828
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,840
Speaker 1: the on the ballot. So we were really fortunate to

829
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: win there, But then there were some really significant results

830
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:37,440
Speaker 1: for trans equality in in other states. North Carolina is

831
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 1: a situation where obviously Pat McCrory in lost the governor's

832
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: race in large part because of HB two, the bill

833
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: that tried to ban trans people from restrooms consistent with

834
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: our gender identity. The new governor signed into into law

835
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,439
Speaker 1: a bill that took away some parts of that bill

836
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: but still kept in place ban on localities passing protections

837
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: for transgender people in restaurant hims UM statewide, so it's

838
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,400
Speaker 1: there's still an issue. They're basically saying, you couldn't pass

839
00:47:05,480 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: laws protecting trans people from using the bathroom that that

840
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: was consistent with their gender identity right. They took away

841
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: the affirmative mandate to discriminate, but kept in place the

842
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:22,359
Speaker 1: ban on on localities protecting LGBTQ people from discrimination UM

843
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: and specifically trans people in bathrooms perpetually UM. In Texas

844
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: though they had a bathroom bill that didn't pass, but

845
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:35,200
Speaker 1: the five main sponsors ended up losing reelection this past cycle,

846
00:47:35,560 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 1: voters are coming forward and they're saying, this is absurd

847
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: that you were trying to ban transgender people from restrooms.

848
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: It's absurd you're spending your time and energy trying to

849
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: do this. We'd much rather have elected officials who represent

850
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 1: the interests of everyone and who focus on issues that matter,

851
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 1: not some made up bathroom predator myth. Well, there's an

852
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 1: interesting parallel to the marriage Clauda movement where it was

853
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: put onto the ballot in many states and we lost,

854
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,040
Speaker 1: and we lost and we lost until we won. And

855
00:47:58,280 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: what you saw with the losses on marriage equality when

856
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 1: there were votes, was the needle moving closer and closer

857
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:05,719
Speaker 1: and closer that the more we have this discussion, the

858
00:48:05,800 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 1: more we have this debate, the more people came around

859
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:11,320
Speaker 1: and change their positions. And on queer rights, what we

860
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: often or almost invariably see is people coming around to

861
00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: supporting queer rights. So it's a it's kind of this

862
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,839
Speaker 1: you know, exploding cigar that right wing bigots keep lighting

863
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 1: and sticking in their own mouths like, oh, we're going

864
00:48:23,520 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: to force this onto a ballot, We're gonna have a vote,

865
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: and yeah, they win a few of those until they don't.

866
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: It is I agree with Sarah of debate. We should

867
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,640
Speaker 1: not have to have the rights of a minority should

868
00:48:33,719 --> 00:48:36,160
Speaker 1: never be put onto the ballot and subject to a

869
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:40,799
Speaker 1: popular vote. Um Our rights are sacred, sacred's acting should

870
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: be protected. Uh. That said, this strategy of THEIRS has

871
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 1: proved in the long run to be a disaster for

872
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: their side. And Dan, you know, Sarah and I both

873
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: attended the service where Matthew Shepherd's remains were interred at

874
00:48:55,760 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 1: Washington National Cathedral and in a way, this twenty a

875
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: year anniversary of Matthew's horrific brutal death was a good

876
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: reminder of how gay people were treated just twenty years ago.

877
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:18,919
Speaker 1: It was profoundly moving for me personally, I think because

878
00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: I've gotten to know Judy and Dennis Shephard very well

879
00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,359
Speaker 1: over the years, and I covered that story and I'm

880
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:29,719
Speaker 1: curious how you felt about that moment. Well, I was,

881
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: of course tremendously moved and then tremendously heartbroken to to

882
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: learn and I wasn't aware of this that for the

883
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: last twenty years, Matthew Shephard's parents have been afraid to

884
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 1: inter him anywhere because they believed that his grave site

885
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:49,960
Speaker 1: would attract bigots and would be defaced. And that for

886
00:49:50,040 --> 00:49:52,680
Speaker 1: twenty years they felt that they couldn't lay matthew drest

887
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: in a public space was really heartbreaking. And you know,

888
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: as a you know, a gay guy myself who grew

889
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: up in a religious family. What kind of blew my

890
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,279
Speaker 1: mind most about it was they found a safe space

891
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,680
Speaker 1: for his remains, and it was a church, because the

892
00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 1: church was the last place I ever felt safe, particularly

893
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,840
Speaker 1: when I was Matthew's age. I didn't feel safe in churches.

894
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: So that was sort of a mind blowing, unexpected development

895
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: in that case, um and really very healing. I have

896
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: to say though, that you know this isn't just how

897
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,600
Speaker 1: gay people were tweeted twenty years ago, that there are

898
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:29,960
Speaker 1: still gay people in lesbians and bisexual people and trans

899
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: people who are attacked and murdered today. Just at a

900
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,919
Speaker 1: good point, Yeah, gay man was shot on the face

901
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 1: on a street corner in Manhattan by an anti gay

902
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,280
Speaker 1: bigot who had come into town specifically for that purpose,

903
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:45,799
Speaker 1: to to to find a gay person and harm them.

904
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,400
Speaker 1: What was even more moving was the first gay episcopal

905
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: bishop actually presided over the service and delivered the homily

906
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: and talked very candidly about his experience. And he's so wonderful.

907
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:05,760
Speaker 1: So three things I want to say to Matt gently,

908
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 1: rest in this place. You are safe now. Oh yeah,

909
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: and Matt, welcome home. I'm in He is amazing. Gene

910
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:32,960
Speaker 1: Robinson is just one of the most kindest, most compassionate

911
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 1: people him I've ever met um. And and it's it's

912
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: interesting and I think not all surprising that the first

913
00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 1: moments where he teared up during his remarks before his

914
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,840
Speaker 1: homily was when he talked about how he knows so

915
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:49,160
Speaker 1: many people in that space, so many LGBTQ people in

916
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,239
Speaker 1: that cathedral had been harmed and traumatized by the church,

917
00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: but that they were welcomed and they were home. So

918
00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: he addressed what you were talking about, Dan head On,

919
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: and it was really quite remarkable to see and to hear.

920
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,439
Speaker 1: At the same time as this extraordinary service happened, we've

921
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 1: also seen over the course of eighteen a disturbing increase

922
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: in hate crimes directed at LGBTQ people UM, as well

923
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: as racial minorities and religious minorities. One instance of this

924
00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 1: that struck me was the murder of Blaze Bernstein, who's

925
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: a student who was a student at Penn. He was

926
00:52:25,719 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 1: gay and Jewish and targeted by a member of a

927
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 1: neo Nazi group who also happened to be a former

928
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:36,920
Speaker 1: classmate of his in Orange County. UM, Dan, what do

929
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: you attribute this increase in hate crimes too? And this

930
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 1: is for both of you. What can we all do

931
00:52:44,440 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: about it? I attributed to the great disinhibitor, which is

932
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. UM. He has given people license to act

933
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,239
Speaker 1: out on their worst impulses. He's legitimized hatred in the

934
00:52:55,320 --> 00:52:59,760
Speaker 1: public square, and he is brought to a boil. People's

935
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: were distincts and impulses, you know, really brought the worst

936
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:07,280
Speaker 1: out of the worst. It's incredibly distressing. Uh. And Donald

937
00:53:07,320 --> 00:53:10,600
Speaker 1: Trump deserves to have the blame for the spike and

938
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: hate crimes laid at his feet, and the entire Republican

939
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,800
Speaker 1: Party and punditry class of the Republican Party, all of

940
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,640
Speaker 1: them should be held accountable for what they have done

941
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 1: to our democracy, for the for the poisons that they

942
00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,560
Speaker 1: have pumped into our body politics. Do you agree, Sarah, Yeah,

943
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:29,239
Speaker 1: I think I think Dan's absolutely right. I think that

944
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,200
Speaker 1: what we have seen over the last two to three

945
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:36,319
Speaker 1: years is an increase almost across the board in hate

946
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,000
Speaker 1: based violence and harassment. In the aftermath of the last election,

947
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:44,400
Speaker 1: the Southern Poverty Law Center found hundreds of hate based

948
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 1: harassment and violent incidences occurring across the country in just

949
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:49,960
Speaker 1: the weeks after we did a survey. The Human Rights

950
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: Campaign did a survey of tens of thousands of of

951
00:53:53,120 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: youth around the country and they overwhelmingly reported an increase

952
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 1: in bullying and harassment during the school day in the

953
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 1: lead up to one in the aftermath of the last election.

954
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: Every single time you see UH, Donald Trump and Mike

955
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:10,640
Speaker 1: Pence release another anti LGBTQ policy, there's a spike in

956
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:14,720
Speaker 1: calls to suicide hotlines. We at the Human Rights Campaign

957
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:19,280
Speaker 1: released a report documenting the last year in in deaths

958
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 1: within the transgender community. Some of those deaths are a

959
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 1: result of explicit hate crimes. Others are very clearly a

960
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 1: result of forces and and and discrimination and hatred conspiring

961
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: to push people into circumstances where they're more likely to

962
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: face violence. UH this year, at least twenty two transgender

963
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:41,239
Speaker 1: people have died through fatal violence, and I think to

964
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 1: the steps that we can take. Obviously, there's a number

965
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: of different steps legally that we can take, in terms

966
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:49,399
Speaker 1: of more states passing inclusive hate crimes laws, in terms

967
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,280
Speaker 1: of law enforcement making sure that they're trained and able

968
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: to interact competently with LGBTQ populations, because if you don't

969
00:54:56,040 --> 00:55:00,399
Speaker 1: feel comfortable contacting or engaging with law enforcement, you're less

970
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 1: likely to be safe from violence. When it comes to

971
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:07,640
Speaker 1: um securing their protection, teachers and educators I think play

972
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:10,120
Speaker 1: a massive role in this. It's about making sure our

973
00:55:10,200 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 1: schools are more welcoming, that we are nipping this in

974
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 1: the bud because hate, at the end of the day,

975
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,440
Speaker 1: is learned, and if we are creating more inclusive and

976
00:55:17,520 --> 00:55:20,120
Speaker 1: welcoming schools, that will go a long way. While there

977
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 1: have been some positive strides made in greater representation that

978
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,920
Speaker 1: we discussed earlier in our conversation, I also look at

979
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 1: television and film and I am heartened by the greater

980
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 1: representation of LGBTQ people. For example, Love Simon about a

981
00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 1: young gay man queer. I I mean, if that's not

982
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:48,799
Speaker 1: a celebration of being gay and being human, I don't

983
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: know what is. Also, you know, I would add to

984
00:55:51,120 --> 00:55:54,080
Speaker 1: that list is drag Race, which for ten years has

985
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:56,080
Speaker 1: been the one place on TV where you could see

986
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:59,959
Speaker 1: working class gay guys. Gay guys have been to prison

987
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: in non native English speakers, immigrants here are gay guys,

988
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,960
Speaker 1: poor people who are gay guys, also gender not conforming

989
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:10,479
Speaker 1: and trans people. So much long live Root, Paul, because

990
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 1: you know, one of the criticisms that you hear of

991
00:56:12,480 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 1: representations of queer people on television if they're all gay, white,

992
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:18,839
Speaker 1: upper middle class men. And drag Race for ten years

993
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 1: has been a place where you can see the real

994
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: diversity of the game mail and not just the game

995
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: mail community and pose which has an incredible cast of

996
00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:29,919
Speaker 1: so many trans folks of color, particularly black transgender women,

997
00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: people are being educated by the shows they're watching. For example,

998
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:35,719
Speaker 1: boy erased, I have yet to see that film, but

999
00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: it's all about conversion therapy for so long. I remember

1000
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 1: actually covering stories twenty years ago on the Today's Show

1001
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: and people talking about conversion therapy. I think even in

1002
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: the case of Matthew Shepard, it still goes on. It's

1003
00:56:50,239 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: still a problem, very much so, and one of the

1004
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:57,719
Speaker 1: one of the actual few uh areas of I think

1005
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 1: significant progress legislative fully that we saw this past year

1006
00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: was actually in more and more states passing protections for

1007
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 1: LGBTQ youth against the abusive practice known as conversion therapy.

1008
00:57:09,680 --> 00:57:11,400
Speaker 1: Do we have any sense of how many people are

1009
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:15,440
Speaker 1: still in conversion therapy programs? You know, it's difficult to

1010
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 1: say for sure, but there are some studies that have documented.

1011
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: A report by the uh U c L. A. Williams

1012
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:28,600
Speaker 1: Institute found that roughly seven hundred thousand LGBTQ Americans have

1013
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: been subjected to conversion therapy and that currently they estimate

1014
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 1: roughly twenty thousand lgbt Q youth are being subjected to

1015
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,960
Speaker 1: conversion therapy around the country, and I get letters at

1016
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:43,760
Speaker 1: my advice column every day from queer kids who were

1017
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:47,560
Speaker 1: subjected to conversion therapy. Recently, I've heard from people just

1018
00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:49,120
Speaker 1: in the last week, one kid in the last week

1019
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,000
Speaker 1: who's currently seeing a therapist that his parents are compelling

1020
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,400
Speaker 1: him to see who is attempting to do conversion therapy

1021
00:57:54,480 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: on him. Sarah, Looking ahead, there are some positive things

1022
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,800
Speaker 1: we can anticipate. In two thousand nine teen, same sex

1023
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: marriage will be legalized in Austria, Costa Rican, Taiwan, and

1024
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: it will be the fiftieth anniversary of Stone Wall. So

1025
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on both of those things. Well,

1026
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: I think on the first point, I think it's a

1027
00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:16,120
Speaker 1: reflection of the fact that equality is on the march,

1028
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: not just here in the United States, but around the globe.

1029
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: That this is a global movement, that LGBTQ people exists

1030
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 1: in every corner of this country and every part of

1031
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:29,240
Speaker 1: the globe, and that we in doing so our opening

1032
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:32,760
Speaker 1: hearts and changing minds, not just in blue states, not

1033
00:58:32,920 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 1: just in the United States of America, but in countries

1034
00:58:35,880 --> 00:58:39,680
Speaker 1: around the world, and that equality is inevitable with hard work.

1035
00:58:39,960 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 1: I think the second point around this is the fiftieth

1036
00:58:42,400 --> 00:58:46,600
Speaker 1: anniversary of Stonewall. It's an important point for us to

1037
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: sit back and reflect on our progress, because with all

1038
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: of the attacks we're seeing, it's easy to get bogged

1039
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: down in the negativity. It's easy to lose sight of

1040
00:58:56,400 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: the horizon, and it's easy to forget just how far

1041
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 1: we've come. But the reality is in fifty years fifty

1042
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 1: years ago at the Stone Wall in if you were

1043
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: to have told the folks they're the transgender women of color,

1044
00:59:10,720 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 1: the gay patrons, what would come in the next five decades,

1045
00:59:14,640 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 1: It would have seemed so impossible that it would have

1046
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:20,760
Speaker 1: been almost incomprehensible. And the fact that we have marriage

1047
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 1: equality in every corner of this nation. The fact that

1048
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:27,920
Speaker 1: we have seen the proliferation of nondiscrimination protections and protections

1049
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,920
Speaker 1: against conversion therapy and so many places across this country.

1050
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 1: The fact that a young gay kid was able to

1051
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 1: go to sleep on a Friday night in June of

1052
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: two thousand and fifteen having just seen the symbol of

1053
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:41,760
Speaker 1: our country, the White House, light up like a rainbow.

1054
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 1: The fact that I get to meet young transgender kids

1055
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: were doing what seemed impossible to me just ten years ago.

1056
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 1: They are both living their truth and dreaming big dreams,

1057
00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 1: all at the same time demonstrates how far we've come,

1058
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:58,320
Speaker 1: and that we have transformed in possibility into possibility into reality.

1059
00:59:58,480 --> 01:00:00,680
Speaker 1: And that is our challenge to never be pacified by

1060
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:04,200
Speaker 1: our progress, but always recognize just how far we've come.

1061
01:00:04,920 --> 01:00:07,040
Speaker 1: We can't be complacent though. We used to live in

1062
01:00:07,080 --> 01:00:09,040
Speaker 1: a country of the Voting Rights Act, and then we don't,

1063
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,840
Speaker 1: you know, we secured through the Supreme Court decision Roe v. Wade,

1064
01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 1: abortion rights as a fundamental constitutional right that's been assailed

1065
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: and under attack and is pretty much non operative or

1066
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: unoperative in many parts of the country. We have to

1067
01:00:22,280 --> 01:00:25,120
Speaker 1: defend our gains. I'm not suggesting that, Sarah, you were

1068
01:00:25,160 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: sing that we rest on our laurels and we should

1069
01:00:27,680 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 1: take moments to marvel at how far we've come, because

1070
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:34,160
Speaker 1: just recognizing the progress that you've made, you know, it

1071
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: inspires you to keep pushing to make more progress. But

1072
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:39,720
Speaker 1: we also constantly have to fight a rearguard action in

1073
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: this country to defend the rights we've won. I also

1074
01:00:42,400 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 1: feel like the much maligned Millennials are a real reason

1075
01:00:46,920 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 1: to hope. I see such a difference in attitude among

1076
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,600
Speaker 1: people in their twenties, my daughters who are both twenty two,

1077
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: and I mean it, or millennials too, by the way, Yes, sorry, sorry,

1078
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:03,200
Speaker 1: but I really do see such a sea change in attitude,

1079
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: such a generational difference. And I don't know about you,

1080
01:01:06,720 --> 01:01:09,240
Speaker 1: Dan and Sarah, but that gives me real hope, does

1081
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: it you? Dan? It does you know? Sometimes I think

1082
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,400
Speaker 1: about my own nieces and nephews, like we're really sealing

1083
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 1: with the millennials, the first generation of adults who grew

1084
01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: up with openly gay, openly lesbian, buying, trans friends and

1085
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: family members, who were incorporated and welcomed as themselves and

1086
01:01:28,440 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: entirely welcomed and loved and embraced by their families and

1087
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:33,680
Speaker 1: their communities. That psyches me out, gives me help, And

1088
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 1: it's a credit to all the people who came out

1089
01:01:35,080 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: when it wasn't easy or possible to be out or

1090
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: as out as people are able to be today. We

1091
01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't be here but for the queer as a stone

1092
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:46,080
Speaker 1: wall who picked up the bricks and through them. And

1093
01:01:46,160 --> 01:01:49,520
Speaker 1: I think we need more people who stand up, and

1094
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 1: not just within the community, but outside the community. And

1095
01:01:52,800 --> 01:01:54,800
Speaker 1: I hope you know that you have always have an

1096
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,680
Speaker 1: ally in me and in Brian, so thank you both

1097
01:01:57,720 --> 01:02:00,080
Speaker 1: so much for coming in. Thank you, thank you how

1098
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:04,240
Speaker 1: much for having Thank you very much. Guys. We'll take

1099
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:06,560
Speaker 1: a quick break and then we'll speak with Chamel Bowie

1100
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:10,640
Speaker 1: and Maria Inajosa about the year in Race that's right

1101
01:02:10,720 --> 01:02:20,520
Speaker 1: after this. America is changing and along with those changes,

1102
01:02:20,640 --> 01:02:24,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people are facing huge financial challenges. Brian

1103
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: So Prudential and financial wellness expert Alexandra Draine are traveling

1104
01:02:28,640 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 1: across America to learn more about the changing financial landscape

1105
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,640
Speaker 1: in a new project called The State of Us. Alexandra

1106
01:02:35,720 --> 01:02:39,240
Speaker 1: has devoted her career to inspiring people to lead healthier, happier,

1107
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:42,680
Speaker 1: and more engaged lives, and over twenty years, she's consulted

1108
01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 1: with leaders and influential thinkers all across the globe. You

1109
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:48,840
Speaker 1: can join her as she partners with Prudential and they

1110
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,760
Speaker 1: travel across the country talking to people from the town

1111
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 1: with the longest lifespan of the town with the highest

1112
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,680
Speaker 1: birth rate to the smallest town in America. Today, less

1113
01:02:57,720 --> 01:02:59,800
Speaker 1: than half of us believe we're on track to meet

1114
01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: our financial goals, and the State of US is working

1115
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:05,439
Speaker 1: to uncover the challenges that are getting in the way

1116
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:09,600
Speaker 1: of financial wellness, and they're teaching us how to fight them.

1117
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 1: Because while our financial challenges may feel greater than previous generations,

1118
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 1: they are not insurmountable. So to learn more about the

1119
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:21,000
Speaker 1: financial challenges facing our country, you can visit Prudential dot

1120
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:25,840
Speaker 1: com slash State of US. That's Prudential dot com slash

1121
01:03:26,320 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: State of US. Now back to the podcast for our

1122
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:34,840
Speaker 1: last segment today, we're talking about what this year meant

1123
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 1: for race relations in the United States. Joining us for

1124
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:42,560
Speaker 1: this conversation Jamal Bowie and Maria and Ajosa. Jamal is

1125
01:03:42,640 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: the chief political correspondent for Slate and a political analyst

1126
01:03:46,200 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: for CBS News, and he's also a uv A alum had.

1127
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:55,200
Speaker 1: It's like we stacked the deck with wa who's today? Anyway,

1128
01:03:55,360 --> 01:03:57,919
Speaker 1: we know Jamal is the real deal because he still

1129
01:03:57,960 --> 01:04:01,600
Speaker 1: lives in Charlottesville. Wow, now you're my third favorite uv

1130
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 1: Alm Katie. Oh my god, I'm kidding. I'm sorry. We're

1131
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 1: also speaking to Maria in a Hosta, the longtime host

1132
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:11,600
Speaker 1: and executive producer of the public radio show Latino USA.

1133
01:04:12,200 --> 01:04:15,560
Speaker 1: Maria also hosts a PBS show called Maria in a

1134
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,880
Speaker 1: host So one on one She's won Emmy's and peabodies

1135
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 1: for her work. She's a very distinguished journalist. We began

1136
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 1: our conversation by talking about one of the biggest and

1137
01:04:24,800 --> 01:04:32,880
Speaker 1: most high profile personalities of the year, Colin Kaepernick. Jamal,

1138
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 1: I'm curious about what you think Colin Kaepernick did in

1139
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: terms of advancing African Americans and some of the issues

1140
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 1: that we're facing in terms of phrase this year. Kaepernick

1141
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,640
Speaker 1: does a fair amount of charity work, and he's been

1142
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 1: a vocal spokeperson African and issues of police brutality and

1143
01:04:52,840 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 1: police violence. But I think the more significant thing about

1144
01:04:55,680 --> 01:04:58,760
Speaker 1: Kaepernick is not so much what he has done in

1145
01:04:59,000 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 1: more acts, that he is the public face of this

1146
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:07,160
Speaker 1: new Nike campaign. And I think it's significant because the

1147
01:05:07,320 --> 01:05:11,440
Speaker 1: brand at least believes that what Kaepernick stands for is

1148
01:05:11,640 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 1: likely to be the mainstream position the mainstream politics at

1149
01:05:17,800 --> 01:05:19,840
Speaker 1: some point in the not too distant future, or the

1150
01:05:19,920 --> 01:05:23,400
Speaker 1: likely position of people who are buying Nike products. Right.

1151
01:05:23,640 --> 01:05:27,120
Speaker 1: I mean, were you surprised when that was announced, When

1152
01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: suddenly we saw that portrait of Colin Kaepernick everywhere is

1153
01:05:31,920 --> 01:05:35,240
Speaker 1: the face of Nike. I was surprised because I do

1154
01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:38,960
Speaker 1: think it represents something of a risk. There will be

1155
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:41,600
Speaker 1: some consumers, some people who will not want to purchase

1156
01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 1: Nike products now that Colin Kaepernick is the face of

1157
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:49,040
Speaker 1: the brand, but it is. I think again, it's very significant,

1158
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,360
Speaker 1: and I think that sends a signal or it may

1159
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:56,360
Speaker 1: suggest where American culture is going in how perhaps five

1160
01:05:56,440 --> 01:05:58,480
Speaker 1: or ten years down the road. But appears to be

1161
01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:02,320
Speaker 1: a divisive issue today, is very likely not going to

1162
01:06:02,440 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 1: be astibusive um in part because of the demographics of

1163
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:08,800
Speaker 1: the country and where those are growing. Let's talk about

1164
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:13,320
Speaker 1: Serena Williams. She became a huge story when at the

1165
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:18,640
Speaker 1: US Open she expressed her anger out on the tennis court.

1166
01:06:19,760 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: I don't cheat. I didn't get I didn't say it.

1167
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:32,479
Speaker 1: You own a police. I have never cheated in my life.

1168
01:06:32,840 --> 01:06:34,880
Speaker 1: I have a daughter, and I staid it's my heart.

1169
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:43,200
Speaker 1: I've never seaten. And the intersection of sports and gender,

1170
01:06:43,600 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 1: I think was so clear with the Serena Williams incident

1171
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 1: and chaml for you as you watched the conversation. I

1172
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 1: remember watching that match, watching Serena and just seeing it

1173
01:06:57,080 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 1: explode on social media. What struck you about not only

1174
01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: what Serena did during the US Open, but the reaction

1175
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:09,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the reaction um to Williams's actions,

1176
01:07:09,560 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 1: and specifically from her defenders, I think shows the extent

1177
01:07:13,440 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 1: to which Serena Williams is almost transcended tennis as a

1178
01:07:17,920 --> 01:07:21,560
Speaker 1: figure in popular culture that people. And I wasn't following

1179
01:07:21,600 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: it too closely, but I was following way closely enough

1180
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:27,960
Speaker 1: to notice that some of the people who were vocally

1181
01:07:28,000 --> 01:07:31,680
Speaker 1: defending Serena Williams weren't even big tennis fans, but they

1182
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:33,400
Speaker 1: were fans of her. They were fans of what she

1183
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 1: represents um, and they saw this as profound disrespect to

1184
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,640
Speaker 1: a woman who arguably is the reason anyone cares about

1185
01:07:41,680 --> 01:07:44,479
Speaker 1: women's tennis in the first place. There is a sense

1186
01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:47,440
Speaker 1: and the reaction sort of how dare you disrespect this

1187
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,480
Speaker 1: person who has done a lot for the sport and

1188
01:07:50,640 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: who does a lot for us by virtue of what

1189
01:07:53,240 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 1: she represents and how she carries herself and who she is.

1190
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:01,640
Speaker 1: America Ferrera is another name, Marie I think, who had

1191
01:08:02,120 --> 01:08:06,439
Speaker 1: really came out in a very sort of strong way

1192
01:08:07,040 --> 01:08:10,320
Speaker 1: about sexual harassment. She was a key figure in the

1193
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: Times Up movement. She edited a book. How important was

1194
01:08:14,120 --> 01:08:17,719
Speaker 1: her high profile this year? You know, America did stand

1195
01:08:17,760 --> 01:08:20,080
Speaker 1: out because she's you know, she's kind of everywhere. She's

1196
01:08:20,120 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 1: on television, she's writing the book. We all know she

1197
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:24,840
Speaker 1: had a baby. You know, we're kind of following her.

1198
01:08:25,439 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 1: But America has been she's been owning her voice for

1199
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:32,160
Speaker 1: a while. So she was very prominent in the Hillary

1200
01:08:32,200 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 1: Clinton campaign. She was a very prominent activist for the

1201
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:39,479
Speaker 1: Democratic Party and has been and and in many ways,

1202
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:42,320
Speaker 1: you're right. What she did in terms of times up

1203
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:45,679
Speaker 1: was that she was helping to make this beyond a movement.

1204
01:08:45,840 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 1: It was like, what do we stand for? Creating a

1205
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 1: whole legal defense and education fund, kind of really trying

1206
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 1: to understand how you tackle this from a strategic and

1207
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:58,240
Speaker 1: structural place as opposed to just protest. So that's kind

1208
01:08:58,280 --> 01:09:00,880
Speaker 1: of America thinking really strategic. Lee. I think she also

1209
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,439
Speaker 1: got a lot of street cred because I think for her,

1210
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 1: because she is Latino, talking about really expanding this whole

1211
01:09:08,680 --> 01:09:13,080
Speaker 1: movement outside of Hollywood and talking about people who are

1212
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 1: working on factory floors, who are working uh in homes,

1213
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:20,800
Speaker 1: who are working as clerks and stores. I mean, I

1214
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:26,240
Speaker 1: feel like for whatever reason, that seemed to resonate in

1215
01:09:26,360 --> 01:09:29,720
Speaker 1: a way that didn't necessarily resonate when you looked at

1216
01:09:29,840 --> 01:09:33,000
Speaker 1: a white actress talking about these issues, right, because what

1217
01:09:33,120 --> 01:09:35,920
Speaker 1: she was saying is, if you think about women being

1218
01:09:36,000 --> 01:09:39,679
Speaker 1: sexually harassed in Hollywood, think about the women who picked

1219
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:43,040
Speaker 1: the grapes or the blueberries or the raspberries that you're eating.

1220
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:47,439
Speaker 1: The bigger connection for me, though, Katie, is that, um,

1221
01:09:48,320 --> 01:09:52,880
Speaker 1: what America kind of symbolizes in ten is the many, many,

1222
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:56,639
Speaker 1: many Latinos who are owning their voice and owning their power.

1223
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:59,880
Speaker 1: And we've all witnessed this, right. So for example, there's

1224
01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 1: moment in the elevator with Senator Jeff Flake on Monday,

1225
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: I still in front of your office with Addie Martin.

1226
01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:09,679
Speaker 1: I told the story of my sexual assault. I told

1227
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,200
Speaker 1: them because I recognize the report story that she's telling

1228
01:10:13,360 --> 01:10:17,639
Speaker 1: that you what you're doing is allowing someone who actually

1229
01:10:17,800 --> 01:10:20,519
Speaker 1: violated in a woman to sit in the Supreme Court.

1230
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:25,960
Speaker 1: That was Anna Maria Chilau. After that, sure, we all did.

1231
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:28,320
Speaker 1: We were all, you know, like, hey, and I've actually

1232
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:32,360
Speaker 1: known Ana for years because she gets to that point

1233
01:10:32,439 --> 01:10:35,400
Speaker 1: of being able to step in that elevator because of

1234
01:10:35,439 --> 01:10:37,800
Speaker 1: the fact that she's been trained as an activist, because

1235
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 1: she's an immigrant rights activist, So you see how people

1236
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 1: are making the connection she's taking on the issue of

1237
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:47,559
Speaker 1: sexual violence. But she was trained as an activist because

1238
01:10:47,600 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 1: she's an immigrant rights activist, and her own story is

1239
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:52,640
Speaker 1: so compelling to what happened to her when she was

1240
01:10:52,720 --> 01:10:55,160
Speaker 1: just five five years old, and she didn't speak about

1241
01:10:55,240 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 1: that for a long, long, long time. But like Anna

1242
01:10:58,640 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: Maria Chila, then you'd have to say, well, Emma Gonzalez,

1243
01:11:02,280 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 1: Ama Gonzalez from Parkland, who you know was leading the

1244
01:11:05,439 --> 01:11:09,080
Speaker 1: March for Our Lives, this is another young Latina who

1245
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 1: has changing the way we're thinking about politics. And then

1246
01:11:12,240 --> 01:11:14,840
Speaker 1: of course that ends up in the mid terms with

1247
01:11:14,880 --> 01:11:19,360
Speaker 1: Alexander Cortez and many other Latinas who are entering Congress.

1248
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:24,160
Speaker 1: Latina's were making these quote unquote intersectional connections. It's a

1249
01:11:24,200 --> 01:11:27,519
Speaker 1: difficult word, but we're making the connections between how we

1250
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:30,639
Speaker 1: who we are as Americans, who we are as as

1251
01:11:31,040 --> 01:11:33,439
Speaker 1: people engaged in American politics in my view as a

1252
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 1: as a journalist, and we're saying we have something very

1253
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:40,280
Speaker 1: particular to bring and to add to the conversation. Well, Maria,

1254
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,759
Speaker 1: you segued us very nicely from biggest names to biggest

1255
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 1: moments and perhaps the biggest moment of the year was

1256
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 1: the mid term election. And Jamale, I'm curious about the

1257
01:11:51,400 --> 01:11:55,840
Speaker 1: role that you think race played. What's your assessment. Yeah,

1258
01:11:55,880 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 1: I think the story of raising these elections a little

1259
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: complicated in the You can think of it from several

1260
01:12:02,160 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 1: different perspectives. The first was just the fact that the

1261
01:12:05,960 --> 01:12:09,479
Speaker 1: President kind of wrapped up his mid term message with

1262
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:15,280
Speaker 1: UM fearmongering about a group of asylum seekers heading for

1263
01:12:16,200 --> 01:12:18,800
Speaker 1: the United States border and referring to them as sort

1264
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 1: of this rapidly approaching threat that will overwhelm American borders

1265
01:12:22,479 --> 01:12:25,040
Speaker 1: and destroyed communities and so on and so forth, and

1266
01:12:25,120 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 1: all of this was not true, and there's there's quite

1267
01:12:28,160 --> 01:12:31,439
Speaker 1: a bit of great journalism debunking the president essentially. But

1268
01:12:31,920 --> 01:12:34,439
Speaker 1: I think the effect of that messaging, which I think

1269
01:12:34,520 --> 01:12:38,840
Speaker 1: you could accurately describe as as race baiting UM ended

1270
01:12:38,920 --> 01:12:44,120
Speaker 1: up likely juicing enough rule turnout that the Republican Party

1271
01:12:44,200 --> 01:12:49,639
Speaker 1: could hold on or flip Senate seats in Florida, could

1272
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:54,720
Speaker 1: win in Indiana as well, could help be Claire mccashkill

1273
01:12:54,840 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 1: in Missouri, and essentially keep the Senate from falling out

1274
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,160
Speaker 1: of Republican hands. Now in the end. You know, the

1275
01:13:01,760 --> 01:13:06,560
Speaker 1: Republican Party began this Congress with fifty two senators. It

1276
01:13:06,640 --> 01:13:09,720
Speaker 1: will end this congress with fifty three senators, so um

1277
01:13:09,880 --> 01:13:13,080
Speaker 1: or begin the next one. So the net effect um

1278
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 1: wasn't that great, but it's still meaningful that the party

1279
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:19,120
Speaker 1: was able to hold on to the Senate in the

1280
01:13:19,200 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 1: face of real democratic energy and um public discontent. So

1281
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 1: that's that's the first way I think race played a

1282
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:29,320
Speaker 1: part in the elections. The second way is the fact

1283
01:13:29,439 --> 01:13:32,840
Speaker 1: that Democratic primary voters seemed to have a real appetite

1284
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 1: for diverse candidates. And I think most of the narrative

1285
01:13:36,360 --> 01:13:39,040
Speaker 1: around this has been in terms of women broadly as

1286
01:13:39,080 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 1: a class, But if you look just a little deeper,

1287
01:13:41,320 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: you see it's specifically women of color and so A.

1288
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 1: Kasia Cortez in New York, Ianna Pressley in Massachusetts, UM

1289
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:53,439
Speaker 1: deb holland UH Lauren Underwood in Illinois. And what striking

1290
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 1: is they don't necessarily represent majority minority districts. Many of

1291
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:04,679
Speaker 1: these candidates represent majority white districts. Most racially tolerant whites

1292
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:07,960
Speaker 1: are becoming Democrats, and at least racially tolerant whites are

1293
01:14:08,000 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 1: becoming Republicans. And this is reshaping the electorate along lines

1294
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:16,759
Speaker 1: that aren't exactly even it was very exciting for Latina

1295
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:24,599
Speaker 1: women with Alexandria Occasio Cortez, you have Veronica Escobar, Sylvia

1296
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:29,040
Speaker 1: Garcia and by the way, a record forty three Latinos

1297
01:14:29,160 --> 01:14:32,400
Speaker 1: will be serving in Congress in two thousand nineteen. So

1298
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 1: why such a change do you think this go around?

1299
01:14:36,400 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 1: So Latinos and Latinos, it looks like they kind of

1300
01:14:39,120 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 1: got the message. I've been very concerned because you know, Katie,

1301
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 1: So the joke is is that I'm a Mexican, so

1302
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:49,240
Speaker 1: I have sixteen jobs. One of those sixteen jobs is

1303
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 1: that I'm a professor. So I'm with young people, and

1304
01:14:52,320 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 1: I've been very concerned feeling their kind of exasperation with

1305
01:14:56,400 --> 01:15:00,000
Speaker 1: the electoral politics. Um and so I was very concerned,

1306
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:01,320
Speaker 1: arned about what was going to happen with the mid

1307
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 1: terms because when we turn out, yeah, in terms of turnout,

1308
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:07,960
Speaker 1: because if you are consistently attacked, does that make you

1309
01:15:08,080 --> 01:15:10,479
Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, let me go and vote. And I

1310
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 1: do think that one of the big stories of this

1311
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:15,400
Speaker 1: moment is and if you look at Texas as an example,

1312
01:15:15,840 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 1: the Latino Latina turnout in Texas and the activism around Uh,

1313
01:15:21,320 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 1: you know, whether it was for for Betto or Rourg

1314
01:15:24,520 --> 01:15:27,160
Speaker 1: or for the other Latinos and Latinos who got elected

1315
01:15:27,200 --> 01:15:30,680
Speaker 1: from the state of Texas. Everybody had been saying, you know,

1316
01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:32,720
Speaker 1: when is it going to happen? When when is it

1317
01:15:32,760 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: going to happen? In terms of Latino Latina turn out, well,

1318
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:37,840
Speaker 1: I think we're seeing in real life and Jamal. Before

1319
01:15:37,880 --> 01:15:40,479
Speaker 1: we wrap up our discussion of the mid term elections,

1320
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,960
Speaker 1: we also saw two huge stars in the Democratic Party,

1321
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:49,240
Speaker 1: both African Americans UH run and lose races for governor

1322
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:53,920
Speaker 1: just by a hair Stacy Abrahams and Georgia Andrew Gillham

1323
01:15:54,000 --> 01:15:59,880
Speaker 1: in Florida. Allegations of voters suppression around both races. We're

1324
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 1: do you think we go from here in terms of

1325
01:16:03,760 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 1: those two individuals as well as sort of the the

1326
01:16:07,000 --> 01:16:10,680
Speaker 1: broader challenge of making sure that everyone who wants to

1327
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:14,200
Speaker 1: vote gets their vote counted. Well, As far as those

1328
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 1: two individuals it is concerned, I think they both have

1329
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:21,040
Speaker 1: very bright futures. Um Gillum in particular, went from being

1330
01:16:21,120 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 1: the mayor of Tallhassee, which is no small thing, to

1331
01:16:24,000 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 1: being a nationally known grouper natorial candidate and did so

1332
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:31,280
Speaker 1: almost by surprise. He won his primary, striking victory from

1333
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,000
Speaker 1: behind that no one really saw coming, and he came

1334
01:16:34,080 --> 01:16:36,600
Speaker 1: closest to winning a grouper in Troyal racist Democrat in

1335
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:41,160
Speaker 1: Florida uh since the two thousands. And so although he

1336
01:16:41,400 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 1: lost his race, the Florida electorate also repealed uh felon

1337
01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 1: disenfranchisement from most felons in the state. And so that's

1338
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 1: one point four million and disitional people added to in

1339
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:55,439
Speaker 1: the pool of potential voters. And you can imagine in

1340
01:16:55,560 --> 01:16:59,760
Speaker 1: twenty two a concerted effort to get some portion of

1341
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:03,320
Speaker 1: the people registered and ready to vote for a second

1342
01:17:03,400 --> 01:17:04,880
Speaker 1: run from Guillam. So I don't think this is the

1343
01:17:04,920 --> 01:17:08,680
Speaker 1: last we've seen of him. Abrams likewise, and I'll say

1344
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 1: I think you know, Abrams ended her race with a

1345
01:17:11,240 --> 01:17:13,840
Speaker 1: concessan spiece that wasn't really a concession speech. It was

1346
01:17:13,840 --> 01:17:17,160
Speaker 1: a speech essentially saying that this was not a fair election,

1347
01:17:17,280 --> 01:17:19,920
Speaker 1: that my opponent, who served as Secretary of State for

1348
01:17:19,960 --> 01:17:24,320
Speaker 1: Georgia responsible for administering elections, did everything you can, both

1349
01:17:24,360 --> 01:17:27,760
Speaker 1: in this election and in prior cycles to remove people

1350
01:17:27,880 --> 01:17:31,280
Speaker 1: from the ballot, and specifically people who vote for Democrats,

1351
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:33,759
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands that people were moved from the roles

1352
01:17:34,360 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 1: over the course of just a few years, um far

1353
01:17:37,640 --> 01:17:41,760
Speaker 1: more than you'd expect given just population change. The case

1354
01:17:41,840 --> 01:17:44,639
Speaker 1: Abrams made to her voters into the public at large

1355
01:17:44,960 --> 01:17:47,200
Speaker 1: was that something needs to be done about this, and

1356
01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:50,040
Speaker 1: instead of, you know, slinking into the night, I'm going

1357
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:52,600
Speaker 1: to use my campaign infrastructure. I'm going to use my

1358
01:17:53,120 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 1: connection to Georgian politics. I'm going to use my past

1359
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:59,879
Speaker 1: organization building to spearhead and effort to reverse these attempts

1360
01:17:59,880 --> 01:18:01,760
Speaker 1: to restrict access to the ballot. And so I think

1361
01:18:01,800 --> 01:18:04,960
Speaker 1: Abrahams will very much be in not just Georgia politics,

1362
01:18:05,000 --> 01:18:08,120
Speaker 1: but national politics for the foreseeable or for the near future.

1363
01:18:08,320 --> 01:18:10,479
Speaker 1: And I think her approach to this, I think will

1364
01:18:10,479 --> 01:18:13,679
Speaker 1: be replicated in other states by other Democrats. Let's step

1365
01:18:13,720 --> 01:18:16,519
Speaker 1: out of politics and talk about a few other key

1366
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:21,799
Speaker 1: moments that happened this year. I'm reminded of Papa John's CEO,

1367
01:18:22,080 --> 01:18:25,479
Speaker 1: John Schnatter, stepping down after using the N word during

1368
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:32,000
Speaker 1: a training call, and Megan Kelly talking about blackface uh

1369
01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:38,839
Speaker 1: and Halloween costumes and summarily being fired for those comments.

1370
01:18:39,080 --> 01:18:42,519
Speaker 1: And yet Jamal one of Donald Trump's biggest applause lines

1371
01:18:43,080 --> 01:18:46,960
Speaker 1: is to attack political correctness. And I saw a poll

1372
01:18:47,040 --> 01:18:50,360
Speaker 1: recently in which is significant number of Democrats bemoan the

1373
01:18:50,560 --> 01:18:57,360
Speaker 1: rise of political correctness. Do you think that we've overreacted

1374
01:18:57,560 --> 01:19:01,759
Speaker 1: to some of the bad words or even bad deeds

1375
01:19:01,880 --> 01:19:05,320
Speaker 1: that people in public life have have made, or do

1376
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:07,479
Speaker 1: you think that this whole movement is kind of an

1377
01:19:07,600 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 1: appropriate uh staff and reaction to abuses that have gone

1378
01:19:12,200 --> 01:19:14,640
Speaker 1: on for far too long. The interesting thing about that

1379
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:17,160
Speaker 1: political correctness poll was that and I think it's showed

1380
01:19:17,200 --> 01:19:20,720
Speaker 1: something like eighty percent of Americans didn't like political correctness,

1381
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:23,680
Speaker 1: but didn't define political correctness, and so it's this very

1382
01:19:23,800 --> 01:19:27,080
Speaker 1: vague definition of a somewhat vague term um that has

1383
01:19:27,120 --> 01:19:31,439
Speaker 1: a negative connotation. But having said that, I think that

1384
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:37,760
Speaker 1: behavior by individual people in society follows norms, follows elite signals,

1385
01:19:37,880 --> 01:19:44,479
Speaker 1: follows larger political culture, and a political culture in which

1386
01:19:45,640 --> 01:19:50,679
Speaker 1: open bigotry doesn't receive any particular sanction, I think can

1387
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:53,760
Speaker 1: create a situation where down the line people feel more

1388
01:19:53,880 --> 01:19:58,320
Speaker 1: comfortable expressing forms of bigotry. And I think, you know,

1389
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:01,720
Speaker 1: one consequence of of the election of President Trump has

1390
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:03,600
Speaker 1: been that in the American society of that people have

1391
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:09,800
Speaker 1: become more open to voicing racially biased opinions and other

1392
01:20:09,880 --> 01:20:12,960
Speaker 1: kinds of bigoted opinions because you know, the President United

1393
01:20:12,960 --> 01:20:16,360
Speaker 1: States voices them too. And there has been an uptick

1394
01:20:16,720 --> 01:20:21,799
Speaker 1: in biased crimes against Jewish Americans, against Black Americans, against

1395
01:20:21,800 --> 01:20:25,920
Speaker 1: immigrants again tell TBT Americans, and so these seems are real, right, Like,

1396
01:20:26,000 --> 01:20:28,800
Speaker 1: this isn't It isn't the case that people are getting

1397
01:20:28,880 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 1: offended over irrelevant or trivial things. So one of the

1398
01:20:33,080 --> 01:20:37,639
Speaker 1: most horrifying moments or stories this year was the fourth

1399
01:20:37,720 --> 01:20:41,040
Speaker 1: separation of migrant kids from their parents at the border.

1400
01:20:41,840 --> 01:20:45,080
Speaker 1: And the deadline has now passed to reunite children with

1401
01:20:45,160 --> 01:20:48,040
Speaker 1: their parents, but there are still hundreds of families who

1402
01:20:48,120 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 1: have not been reunited. Um Maria and Jamal, you've both

1403
01:20:52,280 --> 01:20:57,360
Speaker 1: reported on this story. Will the Trump administration ever successfully

1404
01:20:57,680 --> 01:21:00,920
Speaker 1: fixed the problem that they've created here? So this is

1405
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:06,120
Speaker 1: not a problem that is only a problem to the

1406
01:21:06,160 --> 01:21:08,560
Speaker 1: Trump administration. In other words, what we have to recognize

1407
01:21:08,640 --> 01:21:11,800
Speaker 1: is that children have been being taken from their families

1408
01:21:12,040 --> 01:21:15,679
Speaker 1: um at the border for a long time. In fact,

1409
01:21:15,720 --> 01:21:17,360
Speaker 1: if you kind of do a pullback, I'm just going

1410
01:21:17,439 --> 01:21:20,320
Speaker 1: to go really really wide historically for you guys, because

1411
01:21:20,360 --> 01:21:22,800
Speaker 1: I needed to do this myself to kind of understand.

1412
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:27,640
Speaker 1: And children were being taken from their parents as Africans

1413
01:21:27,760 --> 01:21:30,360
Speaker 1: because we were told in this country that they were property.

1414
01:21:30,880 --> 01:21:34,200
Speaker 1: Native children were taken away because they were seen as

1415
01:21:34,840 --> 01:21:39,040
Speaker 1: an uneducated or savage. UM. Children were taken from their parents,

1416
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:42,400
Speaker 1: UM when they were put into so called internment camps.

1417
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:46,120
Speaker 1: So the uptick in terms of immigration was something that

1418
01:21:46,560 --> 01:21:49,760
Speaker 1: you know, under the Trump administration has taken a different turn.

1419
01:21:50,320 --> 01:21:54,840
Speaker 1: So zero tolerance, UM, you know, created by this administration

1420
01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:58,799
Speaker 1: and by Jeff Sessions, UM, was all about that exactly,

1421
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:01,840
Speaker 1: zero tolerance and we will take your children, and that's

1422
01:22:01,880 --> 01:22:04,080
Speaker 1: going to be an act of punishment. I think one

1423
01:22:04,120 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 1: of the things that was really horrifying for me to

1424
01:22:06,560 --> 01:22:10,360
Speaker 1: hear was when I was down reporting actually about a

1425
01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:13,760
Speaker 1: Latino man who runs the shelters where these children are

1426
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:16,439
Speaker 1: being placed. And our story on Latino USA was, you know,

1427
01:22:16,520 --> 01:22:19,360
Speaker 1: the moral dilemma of Juan Sanchez. You know, he's sheltering

1428
01:22:19,400 --> 01:22:21,880
Speaker 1: these children, but he's also making a profit off of

1429
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:25,360
Speaker 1: doing this, and UM, the fact that that we have

1430
01:22:25,520 --> 01:22:28,519
Speaker 1: to recognize that there is a different way of looking

1431
01:22:28,560 --> 01:22:33,560
Speaker 1: at this. We're talking about family separation. That's a very scientific,

1432
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 1: clinical way to talk about children being ripped out of

1433
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:40,840
Speaker 1: the arms of their parents. So I do think though

1434
01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:45,120
Speaker 1: that this moment of seeing children in cages, of hearing

1435
01:22:45,240 --> 01:22:49,679
Speaker 1: those cries, this is something that will not be forgotten

1436
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: in UM and I do think that we will see

1437
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:57,440
Speaker 1: what happens in terms of the presidential elections. But immigration

1438
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:00,080
Speaker 1: actually didn't used to be the most important issue for

1439
01:23:00,120 --> 01:23:03,080
Speaker 1: a lot of people. This president has actually made it

1440
01:23:03,560 --> 01:23:06,280
Speaker 1: one of the most important issues, and not necessarily because

1441
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:09,200
Speaker 1: people want to build a wall, but because now they

1442
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:12,880
Speaker 1: care about what's happening, and that that maybe, as we

1443
01:23:12,960 --> 01:23:17,000
Speaker 1: say in Spanish, which is like get backfired on Donald Trump,

1444
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 1: people care now because he's kind of exposed how brutal

1445
01:23:20,280 --> 01:23:23,480
Speaker 1: it can be. Are there still children who remained separated

1446
01:23:23,560 --> 01:23:27,160
Speaker 1: from their parents? Because the news cycle is so fast,

1447
01:23:27,360 --> 01:23:30,560
Speaker 1: I feel that that story has come and gone and

1448
01:23:30,720 --> 01:23:33,519
Speaker 1: people are not their mind. No, no, no, there are.

1449
01:23:33,600 --> 01:23:37,880
Speaker 1: And what's different now is that, UM, we have fourteen

1450
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:42,639
Speaker 1: thousand children right now being held by this government. Immigrant children.

1451
01:23:43,560 --> 01:23:45,800
Speaker 1: Some of those children came on their own, in other words,

1452
01:23:45,880 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 1: the parents couldn't even afford to come themselves and simply

1453
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:51,080
Speaker 1: said to their kids in the kind of Sophie's choice,

1454
01:23:51,200 --> 01:23:54,439
Speaker 1: go go and find safety. So some of those are

1455
01:23:54,520 --> 01:23:57,960
Speaker 1: those kids. Others are children who are still being separated.

1456
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:01,680
Speaker 1: So we have more to ldren now being held by

1457
01:24:01,720 --> 01:24:04,880
Speaker 1: this government who are immigrants than at any other time.

1458
01:24:05,320 --> 01:24:07,000
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why they continue to be

1459
01:24:07,080 --> 01:24:09,640
Speaker 1: held is because when family members want to come and

1460
01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:13,240
Speaker 1: take the children, family members who are undocumented have been

1461
01:24:13,320 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 1: picked up by Ice. When they're trying to come and

1462
01:24:15,880 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 1: pick up these children. That's we have to open our

1463
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:22,920
Speaker 1: eyes to how horrific this kind of the ice industrial

1464
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:25,799
Speaker 1: complex has become. But it seems to me immigration reform

1465
01:24:25,920 --> 01:24:28,920
Speaker 1: is really necessary because you do kind of understand that

1466
01:24:29,040 --> 01:24:33,120
Speaker 1: you can't have completely poor completely it's completely necessary to

1467
01:24:34,320 --> 01:24:37,200
Speaker 1: just crazy like come up with a plan that works

1468
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:41,720
Speaker 1: and some kind of process that works, and some kind

1469
01:24:41,760 --> 01:24:45,080
Speaker 1: of humane way to treat people who are seeking asylum.

1470
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:47,479
Speaker 1: I mean, it just seems like a big mess, Maria.

1471
01:24:47,680 --> 01:24:50,000
Speaker 1: It does. It is a big mess. And and sadly,

1472
01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:52,960
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, because of his rhetoric this this has really

1473
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:57,040
Speaker 1: made it feel like a police state for undocumented immigrants

1474
01:24:57,080 --> 01:25:00,400
Speaker 1: and for many immigrants. Um. But it didn't start with him.

1475
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:03,400
Speaker 1: It was President Bill Clinton who signed these laws into effect.

1476
01:25:03,439 --> 01:25:07,839
Speaker 1: In they were ramped up under George W. Bush. President

1477
01:25:07,920 --> 01:25:10,519
Speaker 1: Obama could have done immigration reform in the first one

1478
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:12,439
Speaker 1: days when they had the House in the Senate, he

1479
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:16,960
Speaker 1: chose not to. And President Barack Obama, a constitutional lawyer,

1480
01:25:17,120 --> 01:25:20,439
Speaker 1: was overseeing the massive deportation of more people than any

1481
01:25:20,520 --> 01:25:24,520
Speaker 1: other president in history. So it is a collective responsibility.

1482
01:25:24,880 --> 01:25:28,599
Speaker 1: It is on everyone's shoulders, but sadly it has gotten

1483
01:25:28,800 --> 01:25:32,519
Speaker 1: incredibly worse under the Trump administration. Do you think Jamal

1484
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:36,080
Speaker 1: in two thousand nineteen, we'll see Congress try to tackle

1485
01:25:36,160 --> 01:25:41,320
Speaker 1: this or will it basically never be dealt with? May thing.

1486
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:45,280
Speaker 1: There's certainly an appetite among um Democratic lawmakers, some newly

1487
01:25:45,360 --> 01:25:50,080
Speaker 1: like the Democratic lawmakers to um craft a humane solution

1488
01:25:50,479 --> 01:25:54,880
Speaker 1: to the problem of people living in the United States

1489
01:25:54,920 --> 01:25:57,240
Speaker 1: who do not have documentation. And I think it's sort

1490
01:25:57,240 --> 01:26:00,120
Speaker 1: of important to frame that as being kind of that

1491
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 1: the grand issue of immigration reform. Border crossings are at

1492
01:26:03,960 --> 01:26:07,599
Speaker 1: an all time low, right and even there there hasn't

1493
01:26:07,600 --> 01:26:11,439
Speaker 1: even been a significant increase in asylum seekers. We have

1494
01:26:11,760 --> 01:26:16,920
Speaker 1: sort of procedures for asylum seekers that aren't being overwhelmed.

1495
01:26:17,080 --> 01:26:20,800
Speaker 1: Um they they they are orderly. UM. The sense that

1496
01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:25,360
Speaker 1: the border is somehow being besieged by um sort of

1497
01:26:25,760 --> 01:26:29,240
Speaker 1: large numbers of asylum seekers and immigrants is something President

1498
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:32,400
Speaker 1: Trump likes to put forth to help his political agenda,

1499
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:36,080
Speaker 1: but doesn't really reflect the truth of the situation. What

1500
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:40,760
Speaker 1: we do have are ten eleven million people in the

1501
01:26:40,840 --> 01:26:45,479
Speaker 1: United States who do not have documentation, who have stable lives,

1502
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 1: who have jobs, who have families, and uh. Most Americans

1503
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:55,280
Speaker 1: believe that they should have some pathway to legal status

1504
01:26:55,400 --> 01:26:59,240
Speaker 1: and citizenship, and that is the issue. UM. And while

1505
01:26:59,320 --> 01:27:01,920
Speaker 1: they're I think there is a consensus among Democrats about

1506
01:27:01,960 --> 01:27:05,400
Speaker 1: trying to create a path the citizenship for those people,

1507
01:27:05,800 --> 01:27:08,120
Speaker 1: there is no consensus among Republicans. And as long as

1508
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:10,599
Speaker 1: that's the case, the only hope for getting some sort

1509
01:27:10,640 --> 01:27:14,960
Speaker 1: of conference of immigration reform is if Democrats once again

1510
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:17,640
Speaker 1: hold a trifecta of the House, the Senate, and the

1511
01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:20,200
Speaker 1: White House. To me, the connection has to be kind

1512
01:27:20,240 --> 01:27:23,160
Speaker 1: of because I was thinking about language and hate speech

1513
01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:26,720
Speaker 1: and you know, kind of political correctness. You know, the

1514
01:27:26,840 --> 01:27:30,000
Speaker 1: word illegal to refer to a human being is something

1515
01:27:30,120 --> 01:27:32,599
Speaker 1: that has been it's kind of normalized in our country

1516
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:35,479
Speaker 1: for a lot of people. Myself included. That feels like

1517
01:27:35,560 --> 01:27:38,200
Speaker 1: hate speech. Um, and you know, the person who taught

1518
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:40,360
Speaker 1: me never to refer to a human being as illegal

1519
01:27:40,640 --> 01:27:44,679
Speaker 1: was l VZL, survivor of a Holocaust. He said, never

1520
01:27:45,000 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 1: referred to a human being as illegal. That is the

1521
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:50,599
Speaker 1: first thing that the Nazis did. If you're calling them illegal,

1522
01:27:51,439 --> 01:27:56,519
Speaker 1: then there you're dehumanizing them. Then their lives don't really matter.

1523
01:27:56,760 --> 01:28:00,719
Speaker 1: Then they themselves are an illegal entity. Then it's okay.

1524
01:28:00,920 --> 01:28:03,080
Speaker 1: If you're housing them like this, then it's okay. If

1525
01:28:03,120 --> 01:28:05,800
Speaker 1: you're taking away their children, then it's okay. If you're

1526
01:28:05,840 --> 01:28:08,600
Speaker 1: separating and ripping up families. I know it's smell. It

1527
01:28:08,720 --> 01:28:12,280
Speaker 1: feels really small. But in some ways, part of what

1528
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:14,559
Speaker 1: we can do to lessen the fear of this moment

1529
01:28:14,760 --> 01:28:17,200
Speaker 1: is in fact to think about the words. So looking

1530
01:28:17,280 --> 01:28:20,559
Speaker 1: ahead to two thousand nineteen, to to wrap things up,

1531
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:24,360
Speaker 1: Chamal and Maria, what would you like to see happen?

1532
01:28:25,040 --> 01:28:28,800
Speaker 1: And are you optimistic any of it will? I am

1533
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:34,599
Speaker 1: incredibly optimistic right now because I feel like after these

1534
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:38,120
Speaker 1: mid terms we have seen something that I feel like

1535
01:28:38,240 --> 01:28:42,439
Speaker 1: there's hope for American democracy. We're not going anywhere, none

1536
01:28:42,520 --> 01:28:46,679
Speaker 1: of us, right, And so in that sense, UM. I'm

1537
01:28:46,800 --> 01:28:50,519
Speaker 1: hopeful that people feel very alive, they feel very woke,

1538
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:54,320
Speaker 1: if you will, and UM, and they feel engaged. And

1539
01:28:54,600 --> 01:28:59,240
Speaker 1: that is something that you can't put a dollar sign on, right,

1540
01:28:59,360 --> 01:29:02,600
Speaker 1: That is something that we are all living and experiencing.

1541
01:29:03,560 --> 01:29:07,800
Speaker 1: It's been a really challenging but I think the other

1542
01:29:07,920 --> 01:29:10,080
Speaker 1: side of it is that people are saying, boy, we're tired,

1543
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:14,000
Speaker 1: but we're not staying quiet. And that's what a democracy

1544
01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:17,479
Speaker 1: looks like. And that's that's wonderfully exciting. What I think

1545
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:21,360
Speaker 1: will be interesting will be to see how our public

1546
01:29:21,439 --> 01:29:25,720
Speaker 1: conversations around race and racism and bias are different when

1547
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:28,719
Speaker 1: you have a new sort of generation of young leaders

1548
01:29:28,800 --> 01:29:31,400
Speaker 1: of color UM able to jump into the mix and

1549
01:29:31,520 --> 01:29:34,800
Speaker 1: make their voices heard. One thing that I remain astounded

1550
01:29:34,880 --> 01:29:40,240
Speaker 1: by is uh incoming Rep. Alexander Kaja Cortez's ability to

1551
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:44,439
Speaker 1: sort of command media attention, UM and to to make

1552
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:48,160
Speaker 1: her to insert herself into the conversation and drive it

1553
01:29:48,320 --> 01:29:51,280
Speaker 1: in a particular direction. And as if with with voices

1554
01:29:51,360 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 1: like her in the mix and others UM, I think

1555
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:57,560
Speaker 1: some of the you know, cultural and political flashpoints of

1556
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:02,559
Speaker 1: the past two years will play out very differently next year.

1557
01:30:02,960 --> 01:30:05,120
Speaker 1: Just by virtue of the fact that there are different

1558
01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:08,559
Speaker 1: kinds of people with different kinds of priorities and interests

1559
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:10,920
Speaker 1: responding to them. So that will be interesting to watch.

1560
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:13,479
Speaker 1: Some how how will play out, but it'll be very

1561
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:16,000
Speaker 1: interesting to watch. And as you said, people like Stacy

1562
01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:19,280
Speaker 1: Abram's being out of the mix, but staying in the mix, right,

1563
01:30:19,800 --> 01:30:23,000
Speaker 1: you know, making sure that these issues don't recede, but

1564
01:30:23,160 --> 01:30:26,599
Speaker 1: they stay in the forefront um. And I do think

1565
01:30:26,920 --> 01:30:29,439
Speaker 1: I said it earlier when we had a conversation about

1566
01:30:29,479 --> 01:30:33,840
Speaker 1: the LGBTQ community. This younger generation is not going to

1567
01:30:34,000 --> 01:30:38,200
Speaker 1: tolerate a lot of things, and I think that's very heartening.

1568
01:30:38,280 --> 01:30:41,520
Speaker 1: They're going to keep the conversation going and keep attention

1569
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:43,800
Speaker 1: on some of these issues, and they're going to be

1570
01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:45,600
Speaker 1: like a dog with a bone, They're not going to

1571
01:30:45,760 --> 01:30:49,599
Speaker 1: let it go. Jamal and and Maria, thank you all

1572
01:30:49,880 --> 01:30:53,600
Speaker 1: for coming to our podcast and discussing the state of

1573
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:58,600
Speaker 1: race relations. Is complicated and broad as that topic is,

1574
01:30:58,840 --> 01:31:01,800
Speaker 1: but certainly a lot is happened this year, and I

1575
01:31:01,920 --> 01:31:06,120
Speaker 1: think a lot of consciousness has been raised and people

1576
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:08,920
Speaker 1: are more woke than ever, as they say, and I

1577
01:31:09,040 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 1: think that's a good thing me too. Thank you so much,

1578
01:31:12,360 --> 01:31:23,559
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you guys. That does it for us today, Brian.

1579
01:31:23,920 --> 01:31:28,280
Speaker 1: The podcast dream team is producer Emma Morgenstern, Associate producer

1580
01:31:28,360 --> 01:31:32,800
Speaker 1: Nora Richie, and audio engineer Jared O'Connell. Special thanks to

1581
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:35,720
Speaker 1: Brendan Burns at Earwolf l A for recording me, as

1582
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:39,000
Speaker 1: well as Jamal Milner. A special thanks to Beth de Mos,

1583
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:42,800
Speaker 1: my assistant, Julia Lewis, the social media prodigy, and Jen

1584
01:31:42,920 --> 01:31:45,840
Speaker 1: Brown who helps us book guests here on the podcast.

1585
01:31:46,120 --> 01:31:49,040
Speaker 1: Jared Arnold composed our theme music. You can find me

1586
01:31:49,120 --> 01:31:52,080
Speaker 1: on Twitter at goldsmith b and Katie continues to be

1587
01:31:52,160 --> 01:31:57,120
Speaker 1: an influencer of epic proportions on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter

1588
01:31:57,240 --> 01:32:01,120
Speaker 1: and especially Instagram as what else Katie Kerr don't forget snap.

1589
01:32:01,640 --> 01:32:04,200
Speaker 1: If you have thoughts about the show or questions for us,

1590
01:32:04,320 --> 01:32:08,120
Speaker 1: please reach out. Our email address is comments at current

1591
01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:11,040
Speaker 1: podcast dot com, or you can leave us a voicemail

1592
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:14,760
Speaker 1: by calling nine to nine to two four four six

1593
01:32:15,120 --> 01:32:18,439
Speaker 1: three seven. Thanks as always for listening. We'll talk to

1594
01:32:18,520 --> 01:32:36,280
Speaker 1: you next week. This podcast is happily sponsored by a

1595
01:32:36,400 --> 01:32:38,960
Speaker 1: d T. A d T can design and install a

1596
01:32:39,080 --> 01:32:42,680
Speaker 1: smart home just for you back by seven protection like

1597
01:32:42,800 --> 01:32:45,760
Speaker 1: Doorman Service, which is an A d T automation that

1598
01:32:45,920 --> 01:32:49,559
Speaker 1: unlocks the door for packages, friends, or your kids, all

1599
01:32:49,680 --> 01:32:51,960
Speaker 1: controlled from the A d T app or the sound

1600
01:32:52,000 --> 01:32:55,760
Speaker 1: of your voice and back by seven protection. Just visit

1601
01:32:55,880 --> 01:32:58,760
Speaker 1: at dot com slash smart to learn more about how

1602
01:32:58,920 --> 01:33:02,479
Speaker 1: A d T design and install a secure smart home

1603
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:06,720
Speaker 1: just for you. Little Passports it's a perfect holiday gift

1604
01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:09,640
Speaker 1: for that curious kid on your list. With a subscription

1605
01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:12,960
Speaker 1: to Little Passports, kids get a fun filled package every

1606
01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:17,400
Speaker 1: month designed to inspire their curiosity and things like geography,

1607
01:33:17,560 --> 01:33:21,800
Speaker 1: world cultures, or science. Little Passports is great for kids

1608
01:33:21,880 --> 01:33:25,400
Speaker 1: of all ages. Order today for holiday delivery at Little

1609
01:33:25,439 --> 01:33:29,679
Speaker 1: Passports dot com, slash Katie. That's Little Passports dot com

1610
01:33:30,160 --> 01:33:42,400
Speaker 1: slash Katie Stitcher. Are you in the bay Hive? It's

1611
01:33:42,439 --> 01:33:46,360
Speaker 1: the bee Hive. The Hive, Yeah, I get it. But

1612
01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:49,559
Speaker 1: they call her bay though, right some people, Yeah, Okay,

1613
01:33:51,000 --> 01:33:59,519
Speaker 1: callor Bay. Hello, Dead Beats. It's Gabby Gabby Done, host

1614
01:33:59,640 --> 01:34:01,639
Speaker 1: of Add with Money. I had the Bad with Money

1615
01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:04,559
Speaker 1: book come out in January. I'm super stoked for season four.

1616
01:34:04,840 --> 01:34:06,960
Speaker 1: This season, we're going back to our roots and I'm

1617
01:34:07,000 --> 01:34:10,599
Speaker 1: having long conversations with amazing people and getting the big

1618
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:14,960
Speaker 1: picture about money and the economy. Do you like intersectional, queer,

1619
01:34:15,680 --> 01:34:19,439
Speaker 1: social justice based money podcasts. This is the only one,

1620
01:34:19,479 --> 01:34:22,200
Speaker 1: so get into it. Did you earn it? You deserve

1621
01:34:22,360 --> 01:34:25,599
Speaker 1: to be like a billionaire when somebody who's working as

1622
01:34:25,680 --> 01:34:29,759
Speaker 1: a janitor or working in Walmart, or teacher or a teacher,

1623
01:34:29,840 --> 01:34:32,360
Speaker 1: yeah certainly, or a teacher who may be working just

1624
01:34:32,479 --> 01:34:34,240
Speaker 1: as many hours as you, may be just as smart

1625
01:34:34,280 --> 01:34:37,160
Speaker 1: as you like. Does that make it okay that you

1626
01:34:37,320 --> 01:34:39,560
Speaker 1: have so much? I get paid once a month, so

1627
01:34:39,720 --> 01:34:42,080
Speaker 1: my my check accounts huge. It's like a tidal wave

1628
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:44,639
Speaker 1: comes in and then on the second it's empty again.

1629
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:48,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god, speaking my language. Bad with Money is

1630
01:34:48,120 --> 01:34:50,960
Speaker 1: back now for season four. Listen in stitch, your Apple

1631
01:34:51,040 --> 01:34:52,840
Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.