WEBVTT -  Watch Your Mind with Corey Allen

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Deeply Well. This show is a soft place

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<v Speaker 1>to land on your journey, a space where we explore

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<v Speaker 1>what it truly means to live well from the inside out.

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<v Speaker 1>Not perfectly, but honestly, this is Deeply Well. Welcome back

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<v Speaker 1>to Deeply Well. I'm Debbie Brown. Thank you for being here. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>I am joined by my friend, Corey Allen. Corey is

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<v Speaker 1>an author, a mindfulness expert, speaker, and podcast host whose

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<v Speaker 1>work helps people slow down, think clearly, and live with intention.

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<v Speaker 1>Corey has been a daily meditator for more than 25 years,

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<v Speaker 1>and his reflections now reach millions of people each week.

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<v Speaker 1>At a time when so many of us feel pulled

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<v Speaker 1>to respond faster, to do more, to stay consistently available,

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<v Speaker 1>In his work, Corey offers an invitation to pause and

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<v Speaker 1>reconnect with our truest selves. His new book, The Quiet Age,

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<v Speaker 1>explores what it means to step out of urgency to

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<v Speaker 1>make space for rest and to find clarity in a very,

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<v Speaker 1>very noisy world. Plus, I'm sure if you follow Corey

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<v Speaker 1>on Instagram, some of his daily posts have more than

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<v Speaker 1>likely pulled you out of a hard day into something

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<v Speaker 1>that feels so much more beautiful and alive. Today, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>looking forward to talking with Corey about the practices that

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<v Speaker 1>can help us slow down, the beliefs that keep us

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<v Speaker 1>feeling rushed, and how we can build a life that

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<v Speaker 1>feels more like our own. Welcome to the show, Corey.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for having me. I'm so, so

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<v Speaker 2>excited to be here with you.

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<v Speaker 1>I am so excited. First, we got to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>this Michael McDonald voice you got going. What late night

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<v Speaker 1>radio show, what quiet storm broadcast did you used to

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<v Speaker 1>throw to R &amp; B records and take callers and

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<v Speaker 1>fix their lives?

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<v Speaker 2>That's so funny. I do think about it like the

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<v Speaker 2>late night radio DJ sometimes. But Michael McDonald, that's the

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<v Speaker 2>first time I've ever heard that one. I keep forgetting

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not in love anymore. It's soulful, yeah. When I

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<v Speaker 2>was checking out at the grocery store the other day,

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<v Speaker 2>the person checking me out said you sound like a

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<v Speaker 2>kind Batman, which is nice.

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<v Speaker 1>That is so funny and true. What?

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<v Speaker 2>But this is... this may provide some insight into where

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<v Speaker 2>it comes from on a, if we look at kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a multi-dimensional sort of thing. So about 10 years

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<v Speaker 2>ago or so, I was doing some ceremonies and beforehand

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<v Speaker 2>I was setting this intention and I started thinking about

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<v Speaker 2>what my intention is. And there was some, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes some energy gets a little weird and, and little

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<v Speaker 2>pinholes of reality and the universe start dilating and interesting

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<v Speaker 2>things start coming through and arising in consciousness. So I

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<v Speaker 2>was thinking about my intention and the voice I heard,

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<v Speaker 2>and this was like what to me was my like

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<v Speaker 2>spirit voice. It was Ving Rhames' voice from Pulp Fiction. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. What did he say?

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, preparing and ready to do these ceremonies.

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<v Speaker 2>And he was like, all right, we're gonna do this

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<v Speaker 2>shit smooth like. And I said, all right, motherfucker, we're

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<v Speaker 2>gonna do this shit smooth like. And I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess so. And then I kept his voice. His

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<v Speaker 2>voice was guiding me. So that's apparently my spirit voice

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<v Speaker 2>is Ving Rhames.

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<v Speaker 1>That's your shamanic voice. Yeah. Okay, I need a laugh

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<v Speaker 1>for another 10 minutes about this. Like, okay, motherfucker. That

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<v Speaker 1>is so funny. I thought when you first said you

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<v Speaker 1>were in ceremony, I thought you were about to tell me, well,

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<v Speaker 1>once I did ayahuasca and when I came out, this

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<v Speaker 1>is what I sounded like.

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<v Speaker 2>That'd be amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, it's so interesting. And I mean, I have

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<v Speaker 1>so many things that we're about to get into, but

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<v Speaker 1>I love this. I love that we're kicking it off

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<v Speaker 1>with voice because also the power of voice, right? And

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<v Speaker 1>you think about the way that some people's voices, including

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<v Speaker 1>like some of our favorite singers or, you know, hearing

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<v Speaker 1>like great public speakers, there is something so medicinal about

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<v Speaker 1>a voice. So healing about it, right? And like, I'm curious,

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<v Speaker 1>like what are, do people have healing reactions to your voice?

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. Yeah, that's a good question. I joke about all

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<v Speaker 2>of my podcasts, all of my work. It's not that great.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just people tuning in because the voice makes them

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<v Speaker 2>feel calm and soothed. But yeah, it's constantly on a

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<v Speaker 2>daily basis. People tell me that they just come to

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<v Speaker 2>listen to something or my wife will tell me or

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<v Speaker 2>someone I meet And they'll just say like, it's so

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<v Speaker 2>soothing and so calming. And I appreciate that. And it's like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm grateful that people have that reaction to it. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's funny to me because I'm just, I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>about it until, but people say it to me and

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<v Speaker 2>I go, oh yeah, that's cool. But I do think,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I don't know if you know this, but

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<v Speaker 2>like back in my previous life, I was a music

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<v Speaker 2>producer and a composer.

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<v Speaker 1>I did not know that.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So I.

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<v Speaker 2>And very much tuned into sound. Also, I've mixed a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of spiritual modalities with sound, of course, to create

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<v Speaker 2>effects on consciousness. And I really believe, as I pay

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<v Speaker 2>attention to where the voice comes from within someone, that

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<v Speaker 2>that is really where the power is. It's not necessarily

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<v Speaker 2>the timbre of someone's voice or how deep it is.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's about where it's coming from. And you

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<v Speaker 2>can notice within yourself If you're speaking from a place

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<v Speaker 2>that is anxious, intense, your voice is going to be

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<v Speaker 2>more constricted and more high pitch. It's going to come

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<v Speaker 2>from your nose and kind of your mouth. If you're

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<v Speaker 2>speaking from a place that's really calm and open and

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<v Speaker 2>tuned in, it's going to come from your core. And

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<v Speaker 2>I think that something that I have done over the

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<v Speaker 2>years is paid attention to where am I speaking from. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And I don't think that that's responsible so much for

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<v Speaker 2>the depth or the color of my voice, but I

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<v Speaker 2>think it's responsible for the feeling that comes through in it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm actually like really, really enjoying this voice talk. I

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<v Speaker 1>resonate a lot with what you're saying. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>I have a similar experience in my own way of,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, just voicing meditations and having that same kind

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<v Speaker 1>of response or I've had like yeah, people come up

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<v Speaker 1>to me and just hear me speaking at a counter

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<v Speaker 1>and be like, did you lead this meditation?

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<v Speaker 2>It's such a pleasure.

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<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, oh my God. But when it's you,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like, I'm just talking and I sound very average

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<v Speaker 1>to myself. Yeah. And then funny story, I found that

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<v Speaker 1>with my voice, especially when it came to doing the

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<v Speaker 1>audio book, I got a lot of just incredibly beautiful

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<v Speaker 1>messages from people that felt even more deeply connected through

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<v Speaker 1>hearing it spoken. But then I got my one bad review,

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<v Speaker 1>which was on Audible where someone said, one star, her

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<v Speaker 1>voice is too damn soothing. I fell asleep and I

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't even hear the book. I was like, well, Jesus.

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<v Speaker 2>That's amazing. That's such a good like, Great.

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<v Speaker 1>Way to keep you humble.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I guess. I think it's a great analogy for

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<v Speaker 2>just the human experience. It's like no matter how warm-hearted

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<v Speaker 2>or positive or good intention something is, someone is going

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<v Speaker 2>to perceive it in a way that somehow they're going

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<v Speaker 2>to have a problem with it. Most likely because it's

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<v Speaker 2>triggering something. Really what probably happened with that person is

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<v Speaker 2>that the calmness of your voice made them relax and

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<v Speaker 2>that relaxation dilated something and made them aware of a

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<v Speaker 2>pain that they've been carrying that they couldn't see because

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<v Speaker 2>of their tension and their contraction. And so they projected

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<v Speaker 2>the feeling of that pain onto the thing that was

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<v Speaker 2>the stimulus for that pain, which was your voice. And

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<v Speaker 2>now they're mad at you for having a soothing voice.

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<v Speaker 2>That's really what happened.

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<v Speaker 1>That is absolutely accurate. Thank you for expressing it so

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<v Speaker 1>fully because even in hearing you say that, I'm like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I know that's a breakthrough moment for a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>people because even if it's not your voice... that's the

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<v Speaker 1>mechanism I think sometimes if you are an empathic or

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<v Speaker 1>pure hearted person or just authentically yourself moving in the

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<v Speaker 1>world and you have no idea why you may be

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<v Speaker 1>getting hard or challenging interactions with other people. And it's like, no,

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<v Speaker 1>there's something actually about the goodness that emanates from you

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<v Speaker 1>or the comfortability of you as yourself that invokes that

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<v Speaker 1>in someone else and brings up those same responses. That's deep.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely. And it's like, I think that, we could

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<v Speaker 2>map that template onto most things in life, most experiences

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<v Speaker 2>we have, most judgments that we have about people, most

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<v Speaker 2>things we get frustrated about, most things that we feel

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<v Speaker 2>within ourselves. You know, that thing also works just internally

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<v Speaker 2>as well. And that's what I do as much as

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<v Speaker 2>I can to pay attention. Whenever I feel frustrated or

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<v Speaker 2>irritated or like triggered by something or something annoys me,

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<v Speaker 2>then I'm like, I want to know, I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>sit with that because I want to know why I

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<v Speaker 2>had that reaction. Because it's not about the external world.

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<v Speaker 2>It's something within me That is grasping at something or

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<v Speaker 2>struggling or refusing to see something about myself or how

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<v Speaker 2>I feel or has it integrated something yet? And I'm like,

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<v Speaker 2>I need to sit with that and understand it. Or

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<v Speaker 2>else I'm going to keep having that feeling and ultimately

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<v Speaker 2>it's going to lead the actions that I take in

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<v Speaker 2>the world to be not as wholesome as I want

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<v Speaker 2>them to be because I'll have something unresolved.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that is the way to do

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<v Speaker 1>the work. That's the way to live the work. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's just, it is this ongoing process of the tiniest

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<v Speaker 1>fibers of self-exploration. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's a good thing to talk about. Like, because,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, you've been doing this forever. I've been doing

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<v Speaker 2>this forever. And I really find it important for people

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<v Speaker 2>to understand that, like, You know, you or I aren't

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<v Speaker 2>these cooked gooses that are finished with this stuff. And

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<v Speaker 2>that isn't a destination that a person should even like

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<v Speaker 2>look towards. There's no finish line. It's not about becoming

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<v Speaker 2>some person who's like enlightened or complete or totally. Because

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<v Speaker 2>life is a process of arising and decay and arising

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<v Speaker 2>and decay. And as you live, more things of life

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<v Speaker 2>will wash through you. And then the new seasons of

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<v Speaker 2>life that have new pains, new types of sufferings, new

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<v Speaker 2>ways that you think about yourself that create new, you know, um,

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<v Speaker 2>new problems in new ways that you begin to reflect

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<v Speaker 2>and integrate your own human experience. Like it just keeps happening.

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<v Speaker 2>So the work is being kind of in between what

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<v Speaker 2>I like to call, you know, there's impermanence, which everything

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<v Speaker 2>is going away forever and always. but I like to

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<v Speaker 2>call it the upside of impermanence. Like where if things

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<v Speaker 2>are always going away, then there must always be things

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<v Speaker 2>coming into existence. And human life is living in between

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<v Speaker 2>those things. And the goal of the work is to

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<v Speaker 2>be present in that moment and work with everything that's

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<v Speaker 2>coming through you as you're also releasing what you've experienced

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<v Speaker 2>in the past.

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<v Speaker 1>That is just so freaking gorgeously and comprehensively expressed. It

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<v Speaker 1>is literally that. literally that, because we're still on earth,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, we're still going to always be participating with

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<v Speaker 1>that huge, you know, creation. And I think too, it's,

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<v Speaker 1>it's those deeper layers of suffering and new sufferings, as

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<v Speaker 1>you said, that you get a chance to kind of explore.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think we also get to like any work

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<v Speaker 1>we think we've done on ourselves, we get invited to

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<v Speaker 1>replicate it and every endless category possible. You know, it's like,

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<v Speaker 1>if I think I moved through a big healing with

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<v Speaker 1>my family, well then guess what? Next year, I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to have to apply that to work, or I'm going

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<v Speaker 1>to have to apply that to this dynamic or this relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>And you're learning all over, you're suffering all over, you're

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<v Speaker 1>healing all over, you're learning all over, you're rising all over.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just, and I guess the thing is to, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you eventually surrender to This is what it is to

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<v Speaker 1>be alive. There is no end because this is what

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<v Speaker 1>the experience is supposed to be.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was talking about that just the other day

0:13:41.890 --> 0:13:46.170
<v Speaker 2>with someone where I was like, you know, people grasp

0:13:46.460 --> 0:13:49.600
<v Speaker 2>so much on the idea of like, if I can

0:13:49.620 --> 0:13:51.200
<v Speaker 2>get there, if I can do this, if I can

0:13:51.300 --> 0:13:53.440
<v Speaker 2>become this person, if I can get this much money

0:13:53.500 --> 0:13:57.340
<v Speaker 2>or this much status or this relationship or this job

0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.190
<v Speaker 2>or whatever the thing is. And it's like, you're never

0:14:00.309 --> 0:14:04.880
<v Speaker 2>gonna get there. Because that place doesn't really exist. That's

0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:09.840
<v Speaker 2>an avoidance of this moment right here. Because for better

0:14:09.860 --> 0:14:12.619
<v Speaker 2>or worse, this is it. This is what life is.

0:14:13.780 --> 0:14:17.740
<v Speaker 2>And the more that you can actually sit with that

0:14:17.820 --> 0:14:20.700
<v Speaker 2>and be present for it and realize that all of

0:14:20.740 --> 0:14:24.340
<v Speaker 2>those cravings, all the desire for things is really just

0:14:24.460 --> 0:14:26.480
<v Speaker 2>looking for a way for the present moment to be

0:14:26.580 --> 0:14:30.729
<v Speaker 2>different than it is. And seeking that is trying to

0:14:30.810 --> 0:14:35.340
<v Speaker 2>avoid some type of truth about your own present existence.

0:14:36.140 --> 0:14:37.600
<v Speaker 2>But the more that you sit with that, the more

0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.020
<v Speaker 2>that you can open that up and begin to see

0:14:40.060 --> 0:14:42.479
<v Speaker 2>that the abundance and all that stuff that everyone's seeking

0:14:42.540 --> 0:14:46.120
<v Speaker 2>for has been here all along. It's just that you've

0:14:46.180 --> 0:14:49.450
<v Speaker 2>shaved down your perception so much that you aren't able

0:14:49.490 --> 0:14:52.190
<v Speaker 2>to see it right now, right? And so I think

0:14:52.210 --> 0:14:55.390
<v Speaker 2>that practicing sitting back and like, I love that you

0:14:55.430 --> 0:14:58.840
<v Speaker 2>just said, you know, we're humans on earth still. It's like, Yes,

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.400
<v Speaker 2>like let me sit here for a moment and realize, whoa,

0:15:02.860 --> 0:15:05.320
<v Speaker 2>I'm a wave of consciousness inside of a body like

0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.300
<v Speaker 2>floating on a rock in the middle of infinity. This

0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:13.750
<v Speaker 2>is what's happening and how magical and mysterious and curious

0:15:13.890 --> 0:15:17.770
<v Speaker 2>and fun that just being present in this moment is.

0:15:18.750 --> 0:15:22.460
<v Speaker 2>And like all those rich, deep, beautiful states that you

0:15:22.500 --> 0:15:25.200
<v Speaker 2>have gotten to for a moment of like feeling quote

0:15:25.220 --> 0:15:29.560
<v Speaker 2>unquote blissful, or at peace, or just like, if we

0:15:29.580 --> 0:15:32.380
<v Speaker 2>could put it into human language, just feeling all right

0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:35.440
<v Speaker 2>with yourself and your body in the moment, like that

0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.110
<v Speaker 2>hasn't gone anywhere. That's here. It's just a matter of

0:15:39.210 --> 0:15:41.450
<v Speaker 2>getting back to it in the present moment, you know?

0:15:41.830 --> 0:15:46.510
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. You know, too, I think, and I'd imagine, because

0:15:46.530 --> 0:15:50.930
<v Speaker 1>we both are the soothing voiced people who do our

0:15:50.990 --> 0:15:56.640
<v Speaker 1>work Something I think about a lot in spiritualized communities,

0:15:56.810 --> 0:16:03.310
<v Speaker 1>especially of the last decade, really of the last six years,

0:16:03.790 --> 0:16:06.790
<v Speaker 1>is a lot of people love the quote, and I

0:16:06.850 --> 0:16:09.090
<v Speaker 1>love this quote too. I mean, oh, I love it.

0:16:09.990 --> 0:16:13.430
<v Speaker 1>But I hear this quote a lot from people, which is,

0:16:13.450 --> 0:16:18.770
<v Speaker 1>I remember you are, I am a spiritual being having

0:16:18.810 --> 0:16:20.150
<v Speaker 1>a human experience.

0:16:20.210 --> 0:16:20.330
<v Speaker 2>Mm-hmm.

0:16:21.690 --> 0:16:24.790
<v Speaker 1>First of all, the quote is gorgeous and true. And

0:16:25.500 --> 0:16:29.320
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people use that to bypass having to

0:16:29.380 --> 0:16:33.420
<v Speaker 1>be human and participate with humanity and all of the

0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:36.860
<v Speaker 1>friction and challenge that that brings and want to just

0:16:36.900 --> 0:16:40.170
<v Speaker 1>settle into, no, but I'm a spiritual being. I'm just

0:16:40.210 --> 0:16:44.090
<v Speaker 1>a spiritual being. I want to be spiritual. You're a

0:16:44.170 --> 0:16:49.070
<v Speaker 1>spiritual being having a human experience, which means... you have

0:16:49.110 --> 0:16:53.020
<v Speaker 1>to integrate it. You have to come out of that

0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:58.260
<v Speaker 1>hiding in spirit to participate with human nature.

0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:04.680
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, yeah. It's like that's the bypassing that people go

0:17:04.740 --> 0:17:06.930
<v Speaker 2>to where they just say like, oh, I'm a spiritual

0:17:06.970 --> 0:17:11.990
<v Speaker 2>being and I'm too kind of unearthly for this human form.

0:17:12.530 --> 0:17:17.210
<v Speaker 2>That's just another form of avoidance. And ultimately... It's a

0:17:17.270 --> 0:17:22.379
<v Speaker 2>form of not taking responsibility because it's easy not to

0:17:22.440 --> 0:17:27.220
<v Speaker 2>acknowledge harsh truths about your behavior, what your life is like,

0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:32.550
<v Speaker 2>how you treat people. The truth that you allow yourself

0:17:32.590 --> 0:17:34.570
<v Speaker 2>to see about who you are and what you're doing

0:17:35.150 --> 0:17:37.669
<v Speaker 2>is really easy to ignore if you go, oh, I'm

0:17:37.710 --> 0:17:38.620
<v Speaker 2>just a spiritual person.

0:17:39.270 --> 0:17:44.550
<v Speaker 1>Person. And the harsh truths about this world that we

0:17:44.570 --> 0:17:46.750
<v Speaker 1>want to avoid and don't want to see and don't

0:17:46.790 --> 0:17:49.630
<v Speaker 1>want to accept, but are the reality of what this

0:17:49.710 --> 0:17:50.909
<v Speaker 1>experience is too.

0:17:51.770 --> 0:17:54.910
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. That's why I always try and bring everything into

0:17:54.970 --> 0:17:59.889
<v Speaker 2>just plain, simple human terms, as realistic and actionable in

0:17:59.930 --> 0:18:02.680
<v Speaker 2>a way as possible. I want to strip all the

0:18:03.020 --> 0:18:06.250
<v Speaker 2>spiritual language. I actually did that on purpose about probably

0:18:06.290 --> 0:18:09.610
<v Speaker 2>like five years ago, six years ago, I took away

0:18:10.109 --> 0:18:12.910
<v Speaker 2>any spiritual words. I barely would use the word mindfulness

0:18:12.990 --> 0:18:16.010
<v Speaker 2>even because I felt like I was seeing a lot

0:18:16.030 --> 0:18:18.630
<v Speaker 2>of what you were talking about. And also I saw

0:18:18.710 --> 0:18:22.520
<v Speaker 2>that people who aren't necessarily in the spiritual or even

0:18:22.540 --> 0:18:26.800
<v Speaker 2>self-development world, some of those words might create a reaction

0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:28.840
<v Speaker 2>or a barrier to them being able to see some

0:18:28.859 --> 0:18:31.080
<v Speaker 2>of the ideas. But ultimately at the end of the day,

0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.020
<v Speaker 2>like everything that you and I share, they're just ideas, right?

0:18:34.710 --> 0:18:37.200
<v Speaker 2>but it's about like what clothing do we put those

0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.920
<v Speaker 2>ideas in and how do they ultimately, it's like they

0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:42.580
<v Speaker 2>fit a lifestyle in a way of how someone can

0:18:42.619 --> 0:18:45.580
<v Speaker 2>perceive them or receive them. And so I took all

0:18:45.600 --> 0:18:49.060
<v Speaker 2>of that away and just made things as like clear

0:18:49.140 --> 0:18:54.650
<v Speaker 2>as possible without any kind of like cultural coloring to

0:18:54.730 --> 0:18:58.290
<v Speaker 2>it because I wanted to just stay as rooted as

0:18:58.869 --> 0:19:02.030
<v Speaker 2>in objective truth as I could because I thought that's

0:19:02.050 --> 0:19:04.720
<v Speaker 2>the way to cut through and to help as many

0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.560
<v Speaker 2>people as possible. Like if we can just say the

0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.750
<v Speaker 2>thing without any of the color, then a person who

0:19:11.890 --> 0:19:14.889
<v Speaker 2>is a truck driver, you know, driving across the country

0:19:14.930 --> 0:19:16.730
<v Speaker 2>can read that and hear it. A person who is,

0:19:16.750 --> 0:19:19.889
<v Speaker 2>you know, the highly spiritual life person in Los Angeles

0:19:19.910 --> 0:19:21.950
<v Speaker 2>can read that and hear it. Because to me, that's

0:19:21.970 --> 0:19:24.600
<v Speaker 2>what it's about. It's not about like looking good or

0:19:24.619 --> 0:19:27.720
<v Speaker 2>sounding good. It's about like getting through and getting clear

0:19:27.780 --> 0:19:29.500
<v Speaker 2>and trying to connect. I feel like that's the way

0:19:29.520 --> 0:19:32.260
<v Speaker 2>I've tried to inoculate, you know, the things that I

0:19:32.300 --> 0:19:35.030
<v Speaker 2>share against Yeah. Some of that, you know.

0:19:35.050 --> 0:19:49.610
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. You're a celebrated author and writer and you share

0:19:50.490 --> 0:19:53.190
<v Speaker 1>much like you were just expressing just you know really

0:19:53.619 --> 0:19:57.700
<v Speaker 1>really powerful things through your social channels that so many

0:19:57.780 --> 0:20:06.720
<v Speaker 1>people find hope and faith and also find probably stability

0:20:06.840 --> 0:20:11.070
<v Speaker 1>in right like just really being able to stabilize themselves

0:20:11.290 --> 0:20:16.369
<v Speaker 1>in their lives through connecting to these words. And, you know,

0:20:16.390 --> 0:20:19.970
<v Speaker 1>I'm so curious, being in this space, giving a work

0:20:20.210 --> 0:20:25.450
<v Speaker 1>that also receives like a lot of feedback, right? I'm

0:20:25.530 --> 0:20:31.469
<v Speaker 1>sure you have great pattern tracking and deep intuition. You know,

0:20:31.490 --> 0:20:34.230
<v Speaker 1>I'm curious, how do you feel about this moment in

0:20:34.270 --> 0:20:39.790
<v Speaker 1>time for us in general, as human on earth, and

0:20:39.850 --> 0:20:45.020
<v Speaker 1>also this moment in time within what has become an

0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:46.560
<v Speaker 1>industrial complex?

0:20:47.260 --> 0:20:49.699
<v Speaker 2>That's such a good question. And also, I love how

0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:53.000
<v Speaker 2>perceptive you are to mention the pattern tracking, because that

0:20:53.100 --> 0:20:57.520
<v Speaker 2>is one of my talents is loop finding and pattern recognition.

0:20:57.980 --> 0:21:00.770
<v Speaker 2>So it's amazing that you mentioned that, I just have

0:21:00.810 --> 0:21:07.600
<v Speaker 2>to say. So I find that the thing I see

0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:11.280
<v Speaker 2>when I look out into the abyss of the algorithm

0:21:11.960 --> 0:21:16.080
<v Speaker 2>and all of the feedback and comments and also just

0:21:16.100 --> 0:21:18.840
<v Speaker 2>the way that people engage with certain ideas or topics,

0:21:20.220 --> 0:21:23.240
<v Speaker 2>I think about like, there's the surface level of what

0:21:23.260 --> 0:21:26.990
<v Speaker 2>people are engaging with, but then there's also a couple

0:21:27.030 --> 0:21:30.510
<v Speaker 2>of layers beneath that. There's a secondary layer, especially to

0:21:30.530 --> 0:21:34.030
<v Speaker 2>a lot of stuff, because you can tell someone, you know, well,

0:21:34.250 --> 0:21:36.490
<v Speaker 2>pause and decide if this is worth your energy. And

0:21:36.510 --> 0:21:39.010
<v Speaker 2>we look at that and we go, oh, well, that's

0:21:39.050 --> 0:21:41.470
<v Speaker 2>a great quote because what that says is it says

0:21:42.150 --> 0:21:43.610
<v Speaker 2>there's going to be a lot of things in life.

0:21:43.630 --> 0:21:45.850
<v Speaker 2>There's going to be conversations. There's going to be moments.

0:21:45.869 --> 0:21:48.050
<v Speaker 2>There's going to be people. There's going to be drama

0:21:48.590 --> 0:21:51.990
<v Speaker 2>where those situations will come to you and ask you

0:21:52.090 --> 0:21:55.630
<v Speaker 2>to give yourself to them, to choose to engage with, okay,

0:21:55.690 --> 0:21:58.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to have this conversation again with this person

0:21:58.580 --> 0:22:01.640
<v Speaker 2>who doesn't respect me or, I'm going to go out,

0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:03.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, and do this and give this person all

0:22:03.780 --> 0:22:06.460
<v Speaker 2>my energy, whatever. And a person can see that and go,

0:22:06.480 --> 0:22:08.540
<v Speaker 2>that's a great quote because it says, you know, I

0:22:08.580 --> 0:22:10.639
<v Speaker 2>don't have to do it all the time. But if

0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:12.960
<v Speaker 2>you scratch a little deeper and look at what is

0:22:13.010 --> 0:22:18.149
<v Speaker 2>that doing on a level below even conscious recognition, what

0:22:18.190 --> 0:22:21.490
<v Speaker 2>it's doing is it's giving a person permission and it's saying,

0:22:21.690 --> 0:22:26.060
<v Speaker 2>it's okay for you to not do these things. Hmm.

0:22:27.010 --> 0:22:29.590
<v Speaker 2>And I think that there's a real difference there between

0:22:29.630 --> 0:22:31.959
<v Speaker 2>just saying you don't have to and it's okay for

0:22:31.980 --> 0:22:34.800
<v Speaker 2>you not to have to do these things. And I

0:22:34.820 --> 0:22:38.119
<v Speaker 2>started noticing that and I looked at a lot of

0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:40.580
<v Speaker 2>my work that I'm putting out there and I realized

0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:45.170
<v Speaker 2>that's what everyone is asking for. They're saying, please tell

0:22:45.230 --> 0:22:49.350
<v Speaker 2>me it's cool if I just do what's right for me,

0:22:49.490 --> 0:22:51.730
<v Speaker 2>if I just live a life in a way that

0:22:51.830 --> 0:22:56.670
<v Speaker 2>feels good that isn't up to other people's expectations or, like,

0:22:56.810 --> 0:22:59.700
<v Speaker 2>projections or any of this stuff. Can I just be

0:22:59.780 --> 0:23:03.180
<v Speaker 2>who I want to be and not feel guilty about

0:23:03.220 --> 0:23:07.140
<v Speaker 2>it and not, you know, anything like that? And so

0:23:07.180 --> 0:23:11.100
<v Speaker 2>the permission piece, I find, is really, really interesting. And

0:23:11.119 --> 0:23:13.409
<v Speaker 2>if you think about it, you mentioned the kind of.

0:23:15.770 --> 0:23:18.609
<v Speaker 2>The modernity that we're living in right now in a

0:23:19.230 --> 0:23:24.710
<v Speaker 2>technological and social area. Like... If you think about it,

0:23:25.100 --> 0:23:29.000
<v Speaker 2>everything that we're doing is now, our attention is being

0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:35.870
<v Speaker 2>harvested by these huge corporations and companies and the internet.

0:23:36.310 --> 0:23:39.990
<v Speaker 2>Our energy is being, we're being groomed to just generate

0:23:40.109 --> 0:23:42.530
<v Speaker 2>more and more of this attention for all these companies

0:23:42.550 --> 0:23:46.010
<v Speaker 2>and for all this stuff. And the way that those

0:23:46.850 --> 0:23:50.330
<v Speaker 2>machines can prod us and to get us to put

0:23:50.369 --> 0:23:52.810
<v Speaker 2>our attention on those things is by flicking the levers

0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:58.100
<v Speaker 2>of our lowest, most primal kind of evolutionary psychology-based aspects

0:23:58.140 --> 0:24:02.260
<v Speaker 2>of human, which is our fear, our anger, our worry,

0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:06.000
<v Speaker 2>our comparison. These are all kind of tribal human things

0:24:06.440 --> 0:24:10.379
<v Speaker 2>that we can't resist not reacting on because it is

0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:14.130
<v Speaker 2>at the core of what makes us feel safe or

0:24:14.850 --> 0:24:17.369
<v Speaker 2>like we need to defend or protect ourselves. And so

0:24:17.410 --> 0:24:21.409
<v Speaker 2>that's why things like outrage and anger or comparison or

0:24:21.450 --> 0:24:24.100
<v Speaker 2>like look how amazing this person's life is. If you

0:24:24.140 --> 0:24:26.320
<v Speaker 2>buy this thing, you could be like them, you know,

0:24:26.359 --> 0:24:28.600
<v Speaker 2>but what all of that does is it makes people

0:24:28.700 --> 0:24:31.760
<v Speaker 2>in mass feel less than it makes them feel like

0:24:32.220 --> 0:24:34.940
<v Speaker 2>just by merely existing, that they're not good enough or

0:24:34.980 --> 0:24:39.280
<v Speaker 2>that something's wrong with them. And that's something that really

0:24:40.280 --> 0:24:45.880
<v Speaker 2>makes me mad. And I think that, um, that's something

0:24:45.920 --> 0:24:48.050
<v Speaker 2>I try and write towards. And that's where that permission

0:24:48.090 --> 0:24:51.420
<v Speaker 2>thing comes from is like, It's cool for you just

0:24:51.460 --> 0:24:56.000
<v Speaker 2>to be, you're okay through birth. You're here, you're good.

0:24:56.520 --> 0:24:58.830
<v Speaker 2>And now you can live with intention in a way

0:24:58.869 --> 0:25:01.310
<v Speaker 2>that feels right to you instead of having to get

0:25:01.369 --> 0:25:05.110
<v Speaker 2>caught up in that whole machine that's trying to pull

0:25:05.390 --> 0:25:08.310
<v Speaker 2>you away from yourself. And I know that like, I

0:25:09.290 --> 0:25:11.600
<v Speaker 2>apologize for this answer going on for a while, but.

0:25:11.690 --> 0:25:12.670
<v Speaker 1>Keep going.

0:25:12.730 --> 0:25:17.580
<v Speaker 2>But that really became what I realized was the core

0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:21.820
<v Speaker 2>of the new book, The Quiet Age, is because yes,

0:25:21.900 --> 0:25:26.470
<v Speaker 2>we can step away from urgency culture. We can start

0:25:26.530 --> 0:25:31.530
<v Speaker 2>to re-pattern our relationship with people, with ourselves, with technology,

0:25:31.750 --> 0:25:34.890
<v Speaker 2>and reclaim the stillness and the quiet and the peace

0:25:34.930 --> 0:25:39.300
<v Speaker 2>in our lives. That's really important. But the thing that's

0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:43.619
<v Speaker 2>going on below that is that all of that noise

0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:45.840
<v Speaker 2>and that urgency and that tension that we're all living

0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:49.460
<v Speaker 2>in now, what's happened is it's pulled us away from ourselves.

0:25:50.330 --> 0:25:52.590
<v Speaker 2>It's made it to where we look outside of ourselves

0:25:52.710 --> 0:25:57.290
<v Speaker 2>at the world so much for validation and for direction,

0:25:57.550 --> 0:26:03.179
<v Speaker 2>for answers, whatever, that we stop listening to our own intuition.

0:26:03.260 --> 0:26:06.320
<v Speaker 2>We stop listening to this because we're just playing the

0:26:06.340 --> 0:26:10.619
<v Speaker 2>game outside of our own minds. And the problem is

0:26:10.660 --> 0:26:13.490
<v Speaker 2>with that is that wherever you want to go in life,

0:26:13.650 --> 0:26:15.650
<v Speaker 2>whoever you want to be, whatever you want to do,

0:26:16.369 --> 0:26:20.440
<v Speaker 2>you can't get there if you don't, just tune into

0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:24.179
<v Speaker 2>that internal compass and be able to slow down and

0:26:24.220 --> 0:26:28.060
<v Speaker 2>listen and say, what feels right in this moment for me?

0:26:28.700 --> 0:26:30.610
<v Speaker 2>What is the right choice? Who do I want to be?

0:26:30.700 --> 0:26:33.230
<v Speaker 2>What do I want to do in this moment? And

0:26:33.270 --> 0:26:37.389
<v Speaker 2>if that self-connection is silent, then you're not going to

0:26:37.410 --> 0:26:39.570
<v Speaker 2>be able to go anywhere because you don't trust yourself

0:26:39.950 --> 0:26:42.210
<v Speaker 2>to listen to those things and start walking in the

0:26:42.250 --> 0:26:45.929
<v Speaker 2>direction and the path that your journey is meant to

0:26:45.970 --> 0:26:46.330
<v Speaker 2>go on.

0:26:46.730 --> 0:26:54.060
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah. It's such a, I don't know, doing the work.

0:26:54.119 --> 0:26:58.340
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I get thrilled by it even when I'm exhausted.

0:26:58.880 --> 0:27:02.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, like when I'm in some of my hardest seasons,

0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:09.619
<v Speaker 1>there is this thing that activates in me that is, again,

0:27:09.740 --> 0:27:13.330
<v Speaker 1>both utterly exhausted at having to do more work.

0:27:13.350 --> 0:27:14.209
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:27:15.020 --> 0:27:19.190
<v Speaker 1>And then also like just like really enlivened and fascinated

0:27:19.270 --> 0:27:24.169
<v Speaker 1>and like profoundly curious about like where this kind of

0:27:24.369 --> 0:27:28.630
<v Speaker 1>excavating will take me next. And I think being able

0:27:28.670 --> 0:27:35.120
<v Speaker 1>to really– I'm fortified in those moments by more than

0:27:35.180 --> 0:27:38.820
<v Speaker 1>anything my meditation practice and the path that I built

0:27:39.440 --> 0:27:44.429
<v Speaker 1>over and over and over again to come back in.

0:27:45.140 --> 0:27:47.960
<v Speaker 1>to come into the space of being an observer of

0:27:48.020 --> 0:27:51.310
<v Speaker 1>my world, of bearing witness to life and being able

0:27:51.350 --> 0:27:56.150
<v Speaker 1>to decide from inside and kind of control my experience

0:27:56.210 --> 0:28:05.110
<v Speaker 1>of time inside. Without that, without a stabilizer, it's really

0:28:05.230 --> 0:28:09.750
<v Speaker 1>not possible to do that, to navigate life and navigate

0:28:09.790 --> 0:28:15.990
<v Speaker 1>that true, real, honest, hardship that all of us face

0:28:16.050 --> 0:28:20.710
<v Speaker 1>being alive. I know you've been meditating 25 years. So

0:28:21.710 --> 0:28:24.909
<v Speaker 1>I'm really curious, how did you find your practice? And

0:28:24.950 --> 0:28:27.740
<v Speaker 1>what was the beginning of building your practice like for you?

0:28:28.560 --> 0:28:32.100
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I think I just want to say before

0:28:32.140 --> 0:28:34.159
<v Speaker 2>I go into that, how beautiful was what you were

0:28:34.200 --> 0:28:39.590
<v Speaker 2>just describing? I mean, it's so it's so true. It's like,

0:28:40.130 --> 0:28:42.440
<v Speaker 2>there really isn't a way. And I love the word stabilizer.

0:28:42.480 --> 0:28:44.720
<v Speaker 2>I haven't heard that used in that context before. It's

0:28:44.740 --> 0:28:47.740
<v Speaker 2>such a great word to describe that process. Thank you.

0:28:47.760 --> 0:28:48.800
<v Speaker 1>My first time actually.

0:28:48.900 --> 0:28:52.970
<v Speaker 2>So I'll take that. Great. Yeah. Please. Because like life

0:28:53.110 --> 0:28:54.270
<v Speaker 2>inherently is chaos.

0:28:54.570 --> 0:28:55.230
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:28:55.250 --> 0:28:59.330
<v Speaker 2>And it's like, this is the universe is a self-organizing

0:28:59.770 --> 0:29:02.360
<v Speaker 2>system of atoms that are just flying in every direction.

0:29:02.620 --> 0:29:04.660
<v Speaker 2>It's literally chaos, you know?

0:29:04.680 --> 0:29:09.230
<v Speaker 1>And, No, actual, the definition of chaos, actually. Like, not

0:29:09.270 --> 0:29:10.250
<v Speaker 1>even as a joke.

0:29:10.270 --> 0:29:13.250
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah. It's literally chaos, yeah. And then human life

0:29:13.330 --> 0:29:15.300
<v Speaker 2>is chaos as well. And it's like, yeah, if you

0:29:15.320 --> 0:29:18.480
<v Speaker 2>don't have a stabilizer, then it's very difficult. And I

0:29:18.520 --> 0:29:21.260
<v Speaker 2>think for some people that could be meditation, but also

0:29:21.300 --> 0:29:24.500
<v Speaker 2>I think that, like, one of the things that I

0:29:24.540 --> 0:29:30.120
<v Speaker 2>mentioned somewhere is finding the thing that makes you feel alive.

0:29:31.000 --> 0:29:32.860
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't matter what it is. It could be stupid.

0:29:32.960 --> 0:29:34.900
<v Speaker 2>It could be corny. It could be awesome. It could

0:29:34.920 --> 0:29:36.780
<v Speaker 2>be cool. It could be big, it could be small,

0:29:36.800 --> 0:29:39.270
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't matter. It's the thing that you do that

0:29:39.310 --> 0:29:43.390
<v Speaker 2>gives you that little feeling of levitation and then do

0:29:43.470 --> 0:29:47.650
<v Speaker 2>it often recognize like just put up your antenna notice

0:29:47.710 --> 0:29:51.180
<v Speaker 2>what makes you feel expanded what gives you that little

0:29:51.220 --> 0:29:53.640
<v Speaker 2>lift of feeling and then make that a part of

0:29:53.660 --> 0:30:00.970
<v Speaker 2>your life repetition you know um But yeah, my meditation

0:30:01.010 --> 0:30:08.670
<v Speaker 2>practice came out of necessity. Totally, my whole path is autodidactic.

0:30:08.840 --> 0:30:13.660
<v Speaker 2>I've taught myself everything. And it's just really because I'm

0:30:13.680 --> 0:30:18.460
<v Speaker 2>a curious person. And I needed to, you know, my

0:30:18.540 --> 0:30:24.380
<v Speaker 2>background was very difficult. And there was a lot of

0:30:25.470 --> 0:30:30.760
<v Speaker 2>emotional abuse and manipulation and lying and a lot of

0:30:32.040 --> 0:30:37.720
<v Speaker 2>intense trauma. And it was all of the mind, not

0:30:37.900 --> 0:30:41.030
<v Speaker 2>of the body. And I think that that's something I

0:30:41.310 --> 0:30:43.550
<v Speaker 2>try and bring this up more just for like, you know,

0:30:44.130 --> 0:30:46.090
<v Speaker 2>for the younger people that are listening to this, like

0:30:47.010 --> 0:30:51.250
<v Speaker 2>you can, you can be taken care of on a

0:30:51.310 --> 0:30:56.810
<v Speaker 2>physical level, and still be living a very traumatic experience.

0:30:57.890 --> 0:31:00.920
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. Absolutely.

0:31:00.940 --> 0:31:04.240
<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of people guilt themselves out of

0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:08.780
<v Speaker 2>recognizing what they're actually experiencing because they go, well, you know,

0:31:08.800 --> 0:31:11.240
<v Speaker 2>I always had a roof over my head. It's like,

0:31:11.420 --> 0:31:14.280
<v Speaker 2>there's more prerequisites to that than life, to life than

0:31:14.300 --> 0:31:17.340
<v Speaker 2>just having it. Like, that's a good start. But you

0:31:17.360 --> 0:31:19.660
<v Speaker 2>could be, you could not have a roof over your

0:31:19.700 --> 0:31:23.750
<v Speaker 2>head with a family system that loves you deeply And

0:31:23.810 --> 0:31:26.930
<v Speaker 2>be way happier. Yeah. You know?

0:31:26.990 --> 0:31:27.390
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:31:27.570 --> 0:31:28.710
<v Speaker 2>So just to put that out there.

0:31:28.750 --> 0:31:31.550
<v Speaker 1>Can I say one thing right here really quick? Please do. Please, please.

0:31:31.650 --> 0:31:34.290
<v Speaker 1>I would really love to invite everyone listening, if any

0:31:34.310 --> 0:31:37.450
<v Speaker 1>of that feels resonant and if you feel curious about it,

0:31:38.390 --> 0:31:40.770
<v Speaker 1>a few terms you might want to write down or

0:31:40.850 --> 0:31:44.230
<v Speaker 1>just spend time looking up in various ways. Not just

0:31:44.310 --> 0:31:47.430
<v Speaker 1>what one source says, but just various ways of looking

0:31:47.540 --> 0:31:56.130
<v Speaker 1>at it. Some terms like emotional neglect, emotional abuse, spiritual abuse,

0:31:56.590 --> 0:32:04.170
<v Speaker 1>religious abuse. I would also say low effort families. This

0:32:04.250 --> 0:32:10.070
<v Speaker 1>is just the beginning. Maybe also immature parents, emotionally immature parents,

0:32:10.590 --> 0:32:14.310
<v Speaker 1>narcissistic parents. These are terms, I don't know what fits

0:32:14.370 --> 0:32:17.050
<v Speaker 1>for you, but it could lead you to a lot

0:32:17.070 --> 0:32:22.110
<v Speaker 1>of wonderful resources and just more information if this is

0:32:22.150 --> 0:32:24.020
<v Speaker 1>settling somewhere as we talk about it.

0:32:24.870 --> 0:32:28.070
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. And I like that I unconsciously underlined one of

0:32:28.110 --> 0:32:30.070
<v Speaker 2>the terms that you said with my mm. That was,

0:32:30.130 --> 0:32:32.010
<v Speaker 2>I just heard a mm. That was like an underline.

0:32:32.030 --> 0:32:33.890
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah.

0:32:34.090 --> 0:32:41.250
<v Speaker 2>Yes. So being in that environment, because reality was always...

0:32:42.400 --> 0:32:47.300
<v Speaker 2>twisted being told one thing and then experiencing other things

0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:50.740
<v Speaker 2>and then having other people told things and it's all

0:32:51.260 --> 0:32:56.220
<v Speaker 2>this web of manipulation that got me really curious about

0:32:56.480 --> 0:32:59.980
<v Speaker 2>perception and the mind from a really young age from

0:33:00.220 --> 0:33:02.640
<v Speaker 2>like the time I was 10, 11, 12 I started

0:33:02.700 --> 0:33:07.600
<v Speaker 2>noticing like oh everyone has this mental story and they're

0:33:07.640 --> 0:33:11.680
<v Speaker 2>all litigating on behalf of their mental story Because I'm

0:33:11.740 --> 0:33:15.979
<v Speaker 2>observing reality and just as I'm seeing it, and I'm

0:33:16.030 --> 0:33:20.070
<v Speaker 2>seeing all of these people fight over and trying to

0:33:20.110 --> 0:33:23.790
<v Speaker 2>control the story of what's true and then weaponizing that

0:33:23.830 --> 0:33:27.890
<v Speaker 2>against each other and me and, you know, of course.

0:33:28.890 --> 0:33:33.260
<v Speaker 2>And that made me interested in just the nature of consciousness.

0:33:34.380 --> 0:33:40.000
<v Speaker 2>And so really that came from, it's a protection mechanism.

0:33:40.720 --> 0:33:44.840
<v Speaker 2>The earliest blossoming of my awareness of consciousness in my

0:33:44.900 --> 0:33:48.060
<v Speaker 2>own mind was a protection mechanism. I had to make

0:33:48.160 --> 0:33:51.930
<v Speaker 2>those distinctions so that I could play the game and

0:33:51.950 --> 0:33:52.650
<v Speaker 2>play defense.

0:33:53.150 --> 0:33:53.630
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:33:53.770 --> 0:33:54.130
<v Speaker 2>You know?

0:33:55.510 --> 0:33:59.290
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely. It's also why I think so many people

0:34:00.610 --> 0:34:04.200
<v Speaker 1>who eventually teach this work and also very often people

0:34:04.240 --> 0:34:11.040
<v Speaker 1>that harm, you develop this uncanny intuitive ability. This ability

0:34:11.060 --> 0:34:15.680
<v Speaker 1>to really sense feelings and sometimes even feel like you

0:34:15.700 --> 0:34:22.450
<v Speaker 1>have telepathy, like you're just really, really so naturally, innately

0:34:23.050 --> 0:34:27.160
<v Speaker 1>good at that. But then that wiring can take over completely.

0:34:27.380 --> 0:34:27.880
<v Speaker 2>Totally.

0:34:27.900 --> 0:34:28.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:34:28.219 --> 0:34:31.819
<v Speaker 2>And that skill, as you said, can go a couple

0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:32.739
<v Speaker 2>of different ways.

0:34:32.760 --> 0:34:33.080
<v Speaker 1>Right.

0:34:34.160 --> 0:34:36.210
<v Speaker 2>You can be used for good or it can be

0:34:36.310 --> 0:34:36.930
<v Speaker 2>used for evil.

0:34:37.150 --> 0:34:37.390
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:34:37.450 --> 0:34:39.510
<v Speaker 2>And then the really evil people use it for both

0:34:39.690 --> 0:34:41.010
<v Speaker 2>so that you can't tell them apart.

0:34:43.330 --> 0:34:45.430
<v Speaker 1>Look up the term master manipulator.

0:34:45.489 --> 0:34:51.430
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, no doubt. I mean, that's... And

0:34:51.489 --> 0:34:59.890
<v Speaker 2>I think that also... that ability isn't like sexy, especially

0:34:59.930 --> 0:35:03.430
<v Speaker 2>at first. That ability to have deeply sensed those things

0:35:04.570 --> 0:35:10.640
<v Speaker 2>is raw and rough and difficult until the person who

0:35:10.719 --> 0:35:15.200
<v Speaker 2>is caretaking that ability starts to nurture it and separates

0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:17.420
<v Speaker 2>from the system which they needed to develop it under

0:35:17.440 --> 0:35:19.620
<v Speaker 2>so that they can take it into their life and

0:35:19.680 --> 0:35:22.440
<v Speaker 2>turn poison into medicine and go, now I can use

0:35:22.489 --> 0:35:26.989
<v Speaker 2>this for the purposes of deeply connecting with people and

0:35:27.070 --> 0:35:32.529
<v Speaker 2>understanding people really, really deeply as opposed to protecting, you know,

0:35:32.810 --> 0:35:38.100
<v Speaker 2>and defending. So I, so then just, I'll try and

0:35:38.120 --> 0:35:42.560
<v Speaker 2>make this as quickly as possible, but I, I heard randomly,

0:35:42.660 --> 0:35:45.799
<v Speaker 2>I heard, uh, someone in like no one in my

0:35:45.860 --> 0:35:48.609
<v Speaker 2>family was, were readers. There was no, you know, there

0:35:48.650 --> 0:35:52.020
<v Speaker 2>was like maybe some gossip mags around and that was it. Um,

0:35:52.360 --> 0:35:55.120
<v Speaker 2>no one was college, no college graduates, any of those

0:35:55.140 --> 0:35:59.010
<v Speaker 2>type of thing. And so there were no books around.

0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:03.330
<v Speaker 2>And so I randomly was somewhere and I heard someone say,

0:36:03.370 --> 0:36:05.450
<v Speaker 2>if you could have dinner with two people dead or alive,

0:36:05.510 --> 0:36:09.310
<v Speaker 2>who would it be? And this person said, Jesus and Nietzsche,

0:36:09.430 --> 0:36:13.270
<v Speaker 2>which looking back, that's a hilarious answer. Whoever that person was,

0:36:13.770 --> 0:36:17.030
<v Speaker 2>shout out to him. And I remember just that name

0:36:17.110 --> 0:36:19.509
<v Speaker 2>stuck in my mind, Nietzsche, because it sounded like the

0:36:19.550 --> 0:36:21.790
<v Speaker 2>edge of a knife. And as a, little 13 year

0:36:21.870 --> 0:36:25.660
<v Speaker 2>old death metal hip hop listening, you know, dude that

0:36:25.700 --> 0:36:29.960
<v Speaker 2>was full of anger and sadness. I was like, Hmm,

0:36:30.000 --> 0:36:32.420
<v Speaker 2>that sounds right. So then I was in a bookstore.

0:36:32.440 --> 0:36:34.759
<v Speaker 2>I saw that name. I picked it up. I read

0:36:34.780 --> 0:36:37.400
<v Speaker 2>it and I thought, wow, this is the first time.

0:36:37.420 --> 0:36:41.629
<v Speaker 2>This is how I think it's not necessarily what I think,

0:36:42.350 --> 0:36:45.190
<v Speaker 2>but in the way that it's like big abstract ideas

0:36:45.310 --> 0:36:48.440
<v Speaker 2>broken down into these little sticks of dynamite, like, And,

0:36:48.460 --> 0:36:52.580
<v Speaker 2>you know, what 13-year-old doesn't also just enjoy the ridiculousness

0:36:52.640 --> 0:36:56.469
<v Speaker 2>of some of Nietzsche's stuff. But I was pumped on that.

0:36:56.670 --> 0:37:00.069
<v Speaker 2>And so I got really obsessed with Western philosophy and

0:37:00.090 --> 0:37:03.330
<v Speaker 2>would just read for like four or five hours a day.

0:37:04.250 --> 0:37:07.230
<v Speaker 2>And then after a long time of doing that, I

0:37:07.870 --> 0:37:11.880
<v Speaker 2>took a note of that Eastern philosophy section and I

0:37:11.910 --> 0:37:15.989
<v Speaker 2>went over and this is in the 90s. And so

0:37:16.070 --> 0:37:18.770
<v Speaker 2>it's sort of like record shopping where, you know, you're

0:37:18.790 --> 0:37:21.109
<v Speaker 2>like looking through records and there'll be one you've never

0:37:21.130 --> 0:37:22.989
<v Speaker 2>heard of the band. You don't, you've never seen the

0:37:23.030 --> 0:37:26.520
<v Speaker 2>cover before. It just has an energy. It's got that vibe,

0:37:26.540 --> 0:37:28.640
<v Speaker 2>some vibe about it, you know? And like, you know,

0:37:28.700 --> 0:37:30.299
<v Speaker 2>I know this is going to be something cool, you know,

0:37:30.340 --> 0:37:32.440
<v Speaker 2>so I'm going to get this. Books have that same

0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:33.380
<v Speaker 2>quality in my opinion.

0:37:33.739 --> 0:37:34.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:37:34.360 --> 0:37:36.540
<v Speaker 2>And I was looking through these dusty old, you know,

0:37:36.700 --> 0:37:39.620
<v Speaker 2>used books and there was a book that was Essays

0:37:39.700 --> 0:37:43.009
<v Speaker 2>in Zen Buddhism by D.T. Suzuki, who he's the man,

0:37:43.190 --> 0:37:45.170
<v Speaker 2>if people aren't familiar with him. He was one of

0:37:45.190 --> 0:37:49.629
<v Speaker 2>the first Zen Buddhists that translated, uh, Zen writing from

0:37:49.710 --> 0:37:55.020
<v Speaker 2>ideogramic language into alphabetic language. So it's from Japanese into English. Uh,

0:37:55.370 --> 0:37:59.140
<v Speaker 2>and so that to say this book is this, you know,

0:37:59.160 --> 0:38:01.640
<v Speaker 2>this is in the nineties. That's before it was 10

0:38:01.640 --> 0:38:05.080
<v Speaker 2>ways to meditate for better business success. You know, it's

0:38:05.100 --> 0:38:10.550
<v Speaker 2>just this like long sprawling circular, like thing with terrible grammar,

0:38:10.630 --> 0:38:15.100
<v Speaker 2>no structure, you know, um, like commentary writing and stuff.

0:38:15.540 --> 0:38:17.430
<v Speaker 2>And so what, like I did with all of the

0:38:17.469 --> 0:38:20.870
<v Speaker 2>philosophy books, I would just reread each sentence over and

0:38:20.930 --> 0:38:23.170
<v Speaker 2>over and over until I could actually repeat it or

0:38:23.210 --> 0:38:26.250
<v Speaker 2>like describe what I was thinking to myself. And I

0:38:26.250 --> 0:38:28.649
<v Speaker 2>would just move on. And I remember reading that book

0:38:29.230 --> 0:38:31.220
<v Speaker 2>and I thought, this is now how I think and

0:38:31.340 --> 0:38:35.200
<v Speaker 2>what I think, because underneath all of the pain and

0:38:35.300 --> 0:38:39.899
<v Speaker 2>ultimately the disappointment and the feelings of betrayal that I had. Yeah.

0:38:39.920 --> 0:38:41.060
<v Speaker 1>The grief. Yeah.

0:38:41.100 --> 0:38:43.900
<v Speaker 2>The grief, the grief, you know, there's just, there was

0:38:44.040 --> 0:38:46.640
<v Speaker 2>always a lot of compassion for some reason. I don't

0:38:46.660 --> 0:38:50.660
<v Speaker 2>know why, you know, it was just, um, and so

0:38:51.540 --> 0:38:55.580
<v Speaker 2>fortunately I did my damnedest to just hold on to

0:38:55.640 --> 0:39:02.670
<v Speaker 2>that and follow that through everything. And I got obsessed

0:39:02.710 --> 0:39:05.669
<v Speaker 2>with Eastern wisdom traditions in the same way and being

0:39:05.730 --> 0:39:08.210
<v Speaker 2>really curious for now also at the same time, As

0:39:08.230 --> 0:39:10.589
<v Speaker 2>a 14-year-old, I was sure I was also taking acid

0:39:10.630 --> 0:39:12.730
<v Speaker 2>and going in my closet and meditating for four hours

0:39:13.969 --> 0:39:14.370
<v Speaker 2>a day.

0:39:14.390 --> 0:39:14.969
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:39:16.010 --> 0:39:17.950
<v Speaker 2>I was doing all sorts of kinds of investigation.

0:39:17.969 --> 0:39:18.049
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:39:19.090 --> 0:39:21.410
<v Speaker 2>But I got the meditation from that book. And I

0:39:21.430 --> 0:39:24.109
<v Speaker 2>was doing meditation techniques before I even read that book

0:39:24.510 --> 0:39:27.259
<v Speaker 2>because I realized that and it became so fascinating as

0:39:27.320 --> 0:39:30.460
<v Speaker 2>I got older and started learning more traditional paths is

0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:32.040
<v Speaker 2>that I would lay on my bed whenever I was

0:39:32.060 --> 0:39:34.380
<v Speaker 2>like because I had crazy anxiety I was always in

0:39:34.500 --> 0:39:37.540
<v Speaker 2>like peak survival mode at all times and I would

0:39:37.560 --> 0:39:39.720
<v Speaker 2>lay on my bed at night and I would breathe

0:39:39.739 --> 0:39:42.230
<v Speaker 2>in and I would take long breaths and try and

0:39:42.270 --> 0:39:44.310
<v Speaker 2>relax all the muscles in my body as much as

0:39:44.350 --> 0:39:47.339
<v Speaker 2>I could and then take another breath in and then

0:39:47.380 --> 0:39:48.940
<v Speaker 2>try and relax them even more. And I would make

0:39:48.960 --> 0:39:51.239
<v Speaker 2>it a game where I'd play like, I would just

0:39:51.280 --> 0:39:53.660
<v Speaker 2>think like, I want to feel like I'm floating here.

0:39:53.780 --> 0:39:56.280
<v Speaker 2>I need to, and I learned later that's like progressive

0:39:56.640 --> 0:39:59.740
<v Speaker 2>muscle relaxation to try and like release trauma, you know?

0:40:00.660 --> 0:40:03.990
<v Speaker 2>And that deep breathing was of course doing a nervous

0:40:04.030 --> 0:40:07.310
<v Speaker 2>system change, you know, from parasympathetic mode and sympathetic mode.

0:40:08.230 --> 0:40:11.730
<v Speaker 2>And so whenever I started reading about meditation, I was like, oh,

0:40:11.750 --> 0:40:14.710
<v Speaker 2>I'm kind of already doing this stuff, you know? And

0:40:14.750 --> 0:40:19.180
<v Speaker 2>so I started, learning more moves and trying those out.

0:40:19.219 --> 0:40:21.390
<v Speaker 2>And I think I look at meditation as kind of

0:40:21.450 --> 0:40:24.109
<v Speaker 2>like a, there's all these different moves you can make,

0:40:24.290 --> 0:40:25.850
<v Speaker 2>you know, and there's all these entry points, there's all

0:40:25.890 --> 0:40:28.570
<v Speaker 2>these things you can do in there while you're doing it.

0:40:28.690 --> 0:40:33.030
<v Speaker 2>And like every school of thought and every time period

0:40:33.170 --> 0:40:38.259
<v Speaker 2>offers a different set of approaches to that inward excavation

0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:42.819
<v Speaker 2>and exploration. And so being a really curious fellow, I

0:40:42.940 --> 0:40:45.779
<v Speaker 2>went and I just studied as many different approaches to

0:40:45.800 --> 0:40:48.340
<v Speaker 2>that as possible. And I just put myself in the

0:40:48.390 --> 0:40:50.730
<v Speaker 2>lab where I was like, let me see what works.

0:40:51.290 --> 0:40:53.610
<v Speaker 2>Let me do this and see how I feel. Let

0:40:53.650 --> 0:40:54.930
<v Speaker 2>me try this and see how I feel. Let me

0:40:54.950 --> 0:40:57.430
<v Speaker 2>try some weird like Sufi methods and see how I feel.

0:40:58.030 --> 0:41:01.250
<v Speaker 2>Let me do whatever, whatever. And so I put together

0:41:01.510 --> 0:41:06.870
<v Speaker 2>my own kind of spiritual eclecticism workbook that I used

0:41:06.969 --> 0:41:10.770
<v Speaker 2>all these practices. And so that was how my meditation

0:41:11.190 --> 0:41:14.860
<v Speaker 2>came about. And why it really stuck with me is

0:41:14.900 --> 0:41:18.600
<v Speaker 2>because I started noticing how, we're back to pattern finding,

0:41:19.620 --> 0:41:21.920
<v Speaker 2>is that I would notice, and I didn't have the

0:41:21.960 --> 0:41:26.970
<v Speaker 2>language for it, but I would notice like, whenever I'm talking, now,

0:41:27.930 --> 0:41:32.210
<v Speaker 2>what's arising, I'm aware of what's arising, what I'm about

0:41:32.250 --> 0:41:35.230
<v Speaker 2>to say, and I'm aware of my impulse of how

0:41:35.270 --> 0:41:37.009
<v Speaker 2>I'm going to react or how I feel I want

0:41:37.030 --> 0:41:39.860
<v Speaker 2>to react to something. And I started noticing what I

0:41:39.900 --> 0:41:43.190
<v Speaker 2>ended up calling the mindfulness gap. the space between the

0:41:43.930 --> 0:41:47.430
<v Speaker 2>arising impulses or words and then what you're turning into

0:41:47.610 --> 0:41:50.250
<v Speaker 2>action and how you're engaging with the world. And I

0:41:50.270 --> 0:41:52.410
<v Speaker 2>realized like, well, three months ago, I didn't have this.

0:41:53.170 --> 0:41:56.120
<v Speaker 2>I was just like an outdoor cat, just like responding,

0:41:56.140 --> 0:42:00.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, like totally reacting to everything and saying really like,

0:42:00.719 --> 0:42:05.180
<v Speaker 2>you know, using the intuitive power for not necessarily for bad,

0:42:05.239 --> 0:42:08.270
<v Speaker 2>but not in a wholesome way because- Not with intention. Yeah,

0:42:08.310 --> 0:42:10.710
<v Speaker 2>not with intention because I would just be really sarcastic

0:42:10.790 --> 0:42:13.570
<v Speaker 2>or cutting- Or something to someone because I'm trying to

0:42:13.630 --> 0:42:15.509
<v Speaker 2>keep them back. It's like a barking dog doesn't want

0:42:15.530 --> 0:42:17.379
<v Speaker 2>to bite you. They're barking so that you'll back off.

0:42:18.640 --> 0:42:21.380
<v Speaker 2>Using it for that. I don't want to be that guy.

0:42:21.400 --> 0:42:24.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to be some asshole. I want to

0:42:24.460 --> 0:42:28.900
<v Speaker 2>be who I feel is in there. The more I

0:42:28.960 --> 0:42:34.200
<v Speaker 2>practiced meditation, the greater that space started becoming. The more

0:42:34.239 --> 0:42:37.200
<v Speaker 2>awareness I had of who I was being and what

0:42:37.239 --> 0:42:40.650
<v Speaker 2>I was feeling in the present. And I thought, I'm

0:42:40.730 --> 0:42:44.370
<v Speaker 2>curious about how far I can take this. How far

0:42:44.390 --> 0:42:48.160
<v Speaker 2>does this go? And I'm still working on it.

0:42:48.800 --> 0:42:52.440
<v Speaker 1>That is amazing. And thank you for walking us through

0:42:53.580 --> 0:42:57.239
<v Speaker 1>just the nuanced nature of what it is to like,

0:42:57.580 --> 0:43:01.250
<v Speaker 1>not just with meditation, but build a practice. Yeah. It

0:43:01.310 --> 0:43:05.489
<v Speaker 1>just takes real true spiritual experimentation.

0:43:05.510 --> 0:43:06.110
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:43:06.290 --> 0:43:09.689
<v Speaker 1>You know, like really a willing, open heart to just

0:43:09.790 --> 0:43:13.310
<v Speaker 1>experiment on yourself with all of these things. And I

0:43:13.330 --> 0:43:16.220
<v Speaker 1>think so many people meet that stage of the practice

0:43:16.739 --> 0:43:21.140
<v Speaker 1>and can instantaneously like take on self-judgment, shame, also like

0:43:21.180 --> 0:43:25.630
<v Speaker 1>this self-competitive nature of like, I got to own it.

0:43:25.830 --> 0:43:27.870
<v Speaker 1>I got to kill it. I got to crush it.

0:43:28.230 --> 0:43:32.009
<v Speaker 1>I have to be excellent at it right away. And

0:43:32.030 --> 0:43:33.970
<v Speaker 1>then it's just another tool of avoidance.

0:43:34.930 --> 0:43:39.150
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely. Yeah. I used to joke about being the best meditator,

0:43:39.250 --> 0:43:41.950
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's like, that's what our culture has. You

0:43:42.030 --> 0:43:44.730
<v Speaker 2>feel like I need, I have to be the best meditator,

0:43:44.930 --> 0:43:51.239
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's like, no, you just have to, do

0:43:51.700 --> 0:43:53.750
<v Speaker 2>what you need to do for yourself in the moment

0:43:53.850 --> 0:43:57.190
<v Speaker 2>again and again and again and again.

0:44:10.040 --> 0:44:13.219
<v Speaker 1>The innate nature of being the best meditator, well now

0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:17.420
<v Speaker 1>you have ripped your whole practice to exist outside of

0:44:17.480 --> 0:44:23.160
<v Speaker 1>yourself and not inside of yourself. Yeah. There is the

0:44:23.200 --> 0:44:28.900
<v Speaker 1>comparative nature of wanting to be best. So interesting. I

0:44:28.940 --> 0:44:33.279
<v Speaker 1>find it so fascinating in this work and just deeply

0:44:33.530 --> 0:44:37.410
<v Speaker 1>resonating and really relating to a lot, a lot, a lot,

0:44:37.430 --> 0:44:40.910
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the things that you're saying in my

0:44:40.969 --> 0:44:44.630
<v Speaker 1>own life. It's just, I feel like the more time

0:44:44.670 --> 0:44:47.170
<v Speaker 1>that goes on and the more work I do on myself,

0:44:47.690 --> 0:44:52.790
<v Speaker 1>just absolutely the more quiet I am and the less

0:44:53.050 --> 0:44:57.529
<v Speaker 1>I need to rush in to fix, to advise, to,

0:44:58.710 --> 0:45:01.549
<v Speaker 1>because this is what the gumbo is, you know, like

0:45:01.650 --> 0:45:06.240
<v Speaker 1>it really is. It is just, and, and you could

0:45:06.340 --> 0:45:11.660
<v Speaker 1>be someone that studies meditation intensely, that takes every course

0:45:11.680 --> 0:45:14.560
<v Speaker 1>that goes to every retreat and still not get it

0:45:14.739 --> 0:45:17.840
<v Speaker 1>and still not live it. Right. So it's, it's really

0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:21.030
<v Speaker 1>the nature of like, What are you doing this for?

0:45:21.030 --> 0:45:22.750
<v Speaker 2>100%. Yeah.

0:45:23.390 --> 0:45:24.690
<v Speaker 1>Who are you doing it for?

0:45:25.090 --> 0:45:29.649
<v Speaker 2>Definitely. Yeah. And I think it's not so much about

0:45:29.690 --> 0:45:33.489
<v Speaker 2>the practice, how much you practice. It's about the perspective. Yeah.

0:45:33.610 --> 0:45:36.969
<v Speaker 2>It all comes down to how you see this moment

0:45:37.050 --> 0:45:38.620
<v Speaker 2>and what you choose to do in that moment.

0:45:38.660 --> 0:45:39.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:45:39.360 --> 0:45:41.160
<v Speaker 2>That's really what all the work is going towards. And

0:45:41.200 --> 0:45:43.860
<v Speaker 2>it goes for how you treat yourself and other people,

0:45:43.880 --> 0:45:44.280
<v Speaker 2>of course.

0:45:44.500 --> 0:45:44.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:45:44.840 --> 0:45:48.540
<v Speaker 2>It's all because peace is an understanding. It's not something

0:45:48.560 --> 0:45:51.900
<v Speaker 2>that you do per se. It's a seeing the playing

0:45:52.000 --> 0:45:55.899
<v Speaker 2>field of life and understanding how you're going to move

0:45:55.960 --> 0:46:00.589
<v Speaker 2>through that and what you do, how it affects other

0:46:00.630 --> 0:46:02.990
<v Speaker 2>people and yourself and what energy it creates.

0:46:04.090 --> 0:46:06.950
<v Speaker 1>Because when it's real, it's always a ripple. You don't

0:46:06.989 --> 0:46:11.279
<v Speaker 1>have to rush out or pay for a course about

0:46:11.340 --> 0:46:12.420
<v Speaker 1>how to use your purpose.

0:46:12.440 --> 0:46:13.680
<v Speaker 2>You do it in and through you.

0:46:18.710 --> 0:46:22.049
<v Speaker 1>And then it's the natural ripple of every interaction you

0:46:22.090 --> 0:46:24.989
<v Speaker 1>have after that. And I think that also goes to

0:46:25.070 --> 0:46:29.400
<v Speaker 1>show and share with us where there are opportunities to refine,

0:46:29.460 --> 0:46:32.799
<v Speaker 1>to do more based on the reaction you're getting. If

0:46:32.860 --> 0:46:38.330
<v Speaker 1>that kind of synchronicity, if that ease, if that service

0:46:38.850 --> 0:46:42.540
<v Speaker 1>does not start showing up in your life, then there

0:46:42.560 --> 0:46:45.040
<v Speaker 1>are just some pieces that may need to be seen

0:46:45.140 --> 0:46:49.049
<v Speaker 1>more deeply, more accurately, spend a little more time with.

0:46:49.950 --> 0:46:53.430
<v Speaker 1>It's been really interesting. I know, like, first of all,

0:46:53.450 --> 0:46:57.049
<v Speaker 1>I want to talk to you for three weeks. But,

0:46:57.070 --> 0:47:01.310
<v Speaker 1>you know, I think the interesting juncture that to me

0:47:01.370 --> 0:47:06.020
<v Speaker 1>it feels like, I don't want to say if I

0:47:06.060 --> 0:47:09.520
<v Speaker 1>feel like this is where we're at, but I'll say

0:47:09.540 --> 0:47:12.160
<v Speaker 1>as someone that really resonates with you in terms of,

0:47:12.360 --> 0:47:15.960
<v Speaker 1>I started studying and working on myself in childhood with

0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:18.359
<v Speaker 1>the little bits and pieces that I could find. So

0:47:18.380 --> 0:47:22.580
<v Speaker 1>like I'm 11 reading the self-help book of the time, like, okay, okay,

0:47:22.600 --> 0:47:25.000
<v Speaker 1>so how do I do it? Even without, you know,

0:47:25.040 --> 0:47:29.860
<v Speaker 1>and noticing just the constant hypocrisy of the adult world.

0:47:32.640 --> 0:47:37.790
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, really seeing things that deeply that young, I

0:47:37.870 --> 0:47:43.259
<v Speaker 1>think And it's never been the work to me. It's

0:47:43.340 --> 0:47:47.819
<v Speaker 1>just been what I'm supposed to be doing in every

0:47:47.860 --> 0:47:53.040
<v Speaker 1>moment of life. So seeking out the work and then

0:47:53.140 --> 0:47:58.810
<v Speaker 1>even starting like going to just ceremonies and retreats and

0:47:58.870 --> 0:48:02.150
<v Speaker 1>things long, long, long, long time ago, right? In the

0:48:02.190 --> 0:48:03.250
<v Speaker 1>last two decades.

0:48:03.270 --> 0:48:03.340
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:48:05.120 --> 0:48:09.259
<v Speaker 1>It's been really interesting watching since the pandemic, both the

0:48:09.330 --> 0:48:16.049
<v Speaker 1>light and the shadow aspects of spirituality becoming mainstream in

0:48:16.110 --> 0:48:21.489
<v Speaker 1>the way that it is and the work of mindful

0:48:21.510 --> 0:48:28.879
<v Speaker 1>awareness becoming like an actual industrial complex, like wellness becoming

0:48:28.920 --> 0:48:34.000
<v Speaker 1>an industry. It's so strange.

0:48:35.400 --> 0:48:35.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:48:36.219 --> 0:48:39.190
<v Speaker 1>And in some ways it's so incredible because it makes

0:48:39.290 --> 0:48:43.610
<v Speaker 1>it practical, useful, easy to be connected to all across

0:48:43.650 --> 0:48:46.930
<v Speaker 1>the world, every walk of life, no matter your entry point.

0:48:47.750 --> 0:48:51.930
<v Speaker 1>And I believe it's also made the industry perhaps more

0:48:52.010 --> 0:48:55.480
<v Speaker 1>dangerous than it's ever been. And so, you know, I

0:48:55.500 --> 0:48:58.280
<v Speaker 1>think it's fascinating. I really, I just so deeply love

0:48:58.360 --> 0:49:02.100
<v Speaker 1>the way you're in the fibers of how the work

0:49:02.120 --> 0:49:06.580
<v Speaker 1>is is experienced inside and outside of yourself because that

0:49:07.440 --> 0:49:10.279
<v Speaker 1>is what everyone listening really needs to know. Someone that

0:49:10.540 --> 0:49:14.190
<v Speaker 1>has really done their work sounds like this. right feels

0:49:14.270 --> 0:49:19.069
<v Speaker 1>like this you know and there's so much selling of

0:49:19.590 --> 0:49:27.300
<v Speaker 1>performative confidence not real confidence performative confidence performative self-trust everything

0:49:27.420 --> 0:49:34.940
<v Speaker 1>wrapped in manipulation and capitalism because this language that you

0:49:35.060 --> 0:49:37.700
<v Speaker 1>used to have to read a million books to develop

0:49:37.739 --> 0:49:42.420
<v Speaker 1>within yourself right this language that you used to have

0:49:42.460 --> 0:49:47.120
<v Speaker 1>to self-study and say, okay, now how does that passage

0:49:47.160 --> 0:49:49.830
<v Speaker 1>or that word fit in my life? And then what

0:49:49.910 --> 0:49:53.290
<v Speaker 1>is my divine translation of it? Now that all of

0:49:53.330 --> 0:49:56.330
<v Speaker 1>that is just as easy as chat GPT click away,

0:49:56.350 --> 0:50:01.530
<v Speaker 1>or it's just, you know, everyone memorizes the Instagram infographics

0:50:01.630 --> 0:50:07.110
<v Speaker 1>and there are so many people that can cause harm

0:50:08.650 --> 0:50:12.270
<v Speaker 1>using and weaponizing the same kind of language from the

0:50:12.330 --> 0:50:17.610
<v Speaker 1>places that you can find real healing. And it's scary

0:50:17.650 --> 0:50:20.049
<v Speaker 1>to see, you know, it's scary to see when you

0:50:20.090 --> 0:50:26.380
<v Speaker 1>see people teaching that have not lived the words that

0:50:26.400 --> 0:50:33.560
<v Speaker 1>they're saying, that may have emotional intelligence, because yes, perhaps

0:50:33.600 --> 0:50:37.500
<v Speaker 1>hard childhood developed the tracking, developed the ability to sense

0:50:38.360 --> 0:50:41.819
<v Speaker 1>but don't actually have emotional maturity. So the behavior doesn't

0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:45.120
<v Speaker 1>match and then harm can still prevail in those spaces.

0:50:45.200 --> 0:50:48.109
<v Speaker 1>And I'm just kind of at right now, just kind

0:50:48.150 --> 0:50:51.450
<v Speaker 1>of saying a monologue or a declaration, but I'm just

0:50:51.489 --> 0:50:55.250
<v Speaker 1>so curious of any of your own thoughts or noticings

0:50:55.710 --> 0:50:56.370
<v Speaker 1>in that way.

0:50:56.630 --> 0:50:58.150
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah. I mean, let's cut the mics.

0:50:58.489 --> 0:51:01.899
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's go.

0:51:02.820 --> 0:51:05.880
<v Speaker 2>Yes. I mean, I've watched that as well. And I

0:51:06.280 --> 0:51:12.930
<v Speaker 2>think that I see there are some people, of course,

0:51:13.950 --> 0:51:18.140
<v Speaker 2>there are just emotional sales funnels that are just... That's

0:51:18.300 --> 0:51:24.379
<v Speaker 2>so good. They're using the age-old negative side of spirituality

0:51:24.400 --> 0:51:27.540
<v Speaker 2>to say, hey, here's how cut and dried it is.

0:51:27.940 --> 0:51:31.060
<v Speaker 2>You do these things and you can be really great

0:51:31.200 --> 0:51:34.819
<v Speaker 2>and you'll be healed and you'll feel... And you might

0:51:34.960 --> 0:51:37.419
<v Speaker 2>be almost as good as I am. And so someone

0:51:37.460 --> 0:51:39.850
<v Speaker 2>buys the book. And they go through it and since

0:51:39.870 --> 0:51:42.930
<v Speaker 2>there's not any actual wisdom or guidance in there, the

0:51:42.950 --> 0:51:45.830
<v Speaker 2>person goes, oh, well, I read this book and I

0:51:45.870 --> 0:51:48.729
<v Speaker 2>was supposed to just heal and I don't feel any better.

0:51:48.750 --> 0:51:51.770
<v Speaker 2>It must be me. I'll buy another one of this

0:51:51.830 --> 0:51:53.360
<v Speaker 2>person's books to see if maybe I can get it

0:51:53.390 --> 0:51:56.739
<v Speaker 2>right on the second time. There's a lot of that

0:51:56.780 --> 0:51:58.270
<v Speaker 2>going on. There's a lot.

0:51:58.420 --> 0:52:02.320
<v Speaker 1>And a lot of the projection too, right? Like with

0:52:02.380 --> 0:52:06.730
<v Speaker 1>the person and with even this belief of yourself by

0:52:06.890 --> 0:52:10.009
<v Speaker 1>saying you read their work or saying you go to

0:52:10.050 --> 0:52:13.509
<v Speaker 1>their things and what you think that then means about

0:52:13.570 --> 0:52:17.109
<v Speaker 1>you or what kind of like almost stolen valor that

0:52:17.130 --> 0:52:17.750
<v Speaker 1>it gives you.

0:52:18.330 --> 0:52:20.129
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. That's like what earlier one of us talking about

0:52:20.150 --> 0:52:23.200
<v Speaker 2>the lifestyle kind of like wallpaper that is put on

0:52:23.239 --> 0:52:25.879
<v Speaker 2>certain words. That's exactly what I was talking about is like,

0:52:25.900 --> 0:52:29.500
<v Speaker 2>you know, people are seeking. One of the many things

0:52:29.540 --> 0:52:32.660
<v Speaker 2>people are seeking is identity. And if they can look

0:52:32.680 --> 0:52:36.060
<v Speaker 2>at this healing language or a influencer or author or

0:52:36.100 --> 0:52:38.520
<v Speaker 2>something like that who has an energy that they like,

0:52:38.580 --> 0:52:40.580
<v Speaker 2>they can then take a part of that and add

0:52:40.620 --> 0:52:42.960
<v Speaker 2>it to their identity. And it becomes a social currency.

0:52:43.400 --> 0:52:45.580
<v Speaker 2>It's used as that as opposed to something that's actually

0:52:45.600 --> 0:52:47.780
<v Speaker 2>going to help them. And I think that a lot

0:52:47.800 --> 0:52:52.010
<v Speaker 2>of the people who are mimicked like that are aware

0:52:52.050 --> 0:52:54.450
<v Speaker 2>of that to a degree and are counting on that.

0:52:55.430 --> 0:52:58.569
<v Speaker 2>They're trying to make it to where they'll become more

0:52:58.610 --> 0:53:01.900
<v Speaker 2>of a celebrity and than a healer or a teacher.

0:53:03.050 --> 0:53:08.549
<v Speaker 2>And I think that this is, it's just a small

0:53:08.590 --> 0:53:13.130
<v Speaker 2>part of a larger problem, which is as this world

0:53:13.190 --> 0:53:19.680
<v Speaker 2>of information and wisdom scaled, whenever anything scales, quality goes

0:53:19.760 --> 0:53:24.100
<v Speaker 2>down and availability goes up. And you get, it's like,

0:53:24.600 --> 0:53:28.570
<v Speaker 2>you know, fine dining restaurant and a fast food restaurant

0:53:28.590 --> 0:53:30.950
<v Speaker 2>are two very different things, but one is a lot

0:53:31.190 --> 0:53:34.870
<v Speaker 2>easier to get and everyone knows, you know, McDonald's, you know?

0:53:36.370 --> 0:53:38.610
<v Speaker 1>Um, yeah, that's such a, such a great way to

0:53:38.630 --> 0:53:38.969
<v Speaker 1>put it.

0:53:39.030 --> 0:53:42.380
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And it's like, but you know, at Le Bernardin,

0:53:42.420 --> 0:53:44.879
<v Speaker 2>you're going to get a lot more, you know, better

0:53:44.920 --> 0:53:48.400
<v Speaker 2>piece of fish than the fish at McDonald's, but it's

0:53:48.420 --> 0:53:50.120
<v Speaker 2>going to cost more. It's going to take more time

0:53:50.260 --> 0:53:53.569
<v Speaker 2>because that type of depth takes time and that's, someone

0:53:53.590 --> 0:53:56.069
<v Speaker 2>that would go to seek that meal goes there because

0:53:56.090 --> 0:53:59.270
<v Speaker 2>they go, I really want to experience, well, generally, they go,

0:53:59.330 --> 0:54:01.950
<v Speaker 2>I want to like really experience something deep and rich.

0:54:02.730 --> 0:54:04.410
<v Speaker 2>And that's why they go there. And I think that

0:54:04.450 --> 0:54:07.270
<v Speaker 2>that's kind of like, now it's at this level of

0:54:07.330 --> 0:54:11.290
<v Speaker 2>scale where it gets confusing because you have people who

0:54:11.530 --> 0:54:15.279
<v Speaker 2>really are seeking depth and experience and they try to

0:54:15.430 --> 0:54:17.959
<v Speaker 2>sift through and find the people who can give them that.

0:54:18.460 --> 0:54:21.480
<v Speaker 2>But then there's so much other noise out there that,

0:54:22.210 --> 0:54:24.690
<v Speaker 2>Because they're unaware and they kind of don't know what

0:54:24.730 --> 0:54:28.129
<v Speaker 2>they don't know yet, they can start taking guidance from

0:54:28.170 --> 0:54:30.410
<v Speaker 2>people who might not have the best intentions or haven't

0:54:30.450 --> 0:54:35.120
<v Speaker 2>done the work themselves. And so we're at an interesting point.

0:54:35.160 --> 0:54:39.819
<v Speaker 2>But I think that what can we do with that, right?

0:54:39.880 --> 0:54:44.259
<v Speaker 2>And is the net gain good? I think that it's

0:54:44.469 --> 0:54:48.690
<v Speaker 2>probably good because we have to, as people in a culture...

0:54:49.940 --> 0:54:52.380
<v Speaker 2>we have to at least start to build familiarity with

0:54:52.420 --> 0:54:55.820
<v Speaker 2>the ideas. That's like step one is just introducing it

0:54:55.840 --> 0:54:58.719
<v Speaker 2>into the bloodstream. Like just get all of this language

0:54:59.380 --> 0:55:01.589
<v Speaker 2>and all of this stuff and all the quotes and books.

0:55:02.010 --> 0:55:05.650
<v Speaker 2>Let's just get that into the bloodstream because ultimately that

0:55:05.730 --> 0:55:08.110
<v Speaker 2>creates awareness. And as people are sort of aware of

0:55:08.150 --> 0:55:12.250
<v Speaker 2>this world and aware of these ideas, then just a

0:55:12.330 --> 0:55:16.750
<v Speaker 2>portion of those people will start to see the authentic

0:55:16.830 --> 0:55:19.049
<v Speaker 2>part of that world, and it will kind of start

0:55:19.070 --> 0:55:21.820
<v Speaker 2>to grow, hopefully, in scale. But there's also going to

0:55:21.860 --> 0:55:25.200
<v Speaker 2>be a lot of negative qualities to that as well,

0:55:25.219 --> 0:55:27.319
<v Speaker 2>where people are misled, or people go into it with

0:55:27.340 --> 0:55:30.080
<v Speaker 2>the wrong intentions. So I think that we're just in

0:55:30.120 --> 0:55:34.880
<v Speaker 2>that process right now. I think that, for me, it

0:55:34.920 --> 0:55:36.460
<v Speaker 2>comes back to, all right, well, what can I do

0:55:36.520 --> 0:55:40.360
<v Speaker 2>right now? What can I do as just an individual?

0:55:41.180 --> 0:55:45.239
<v Speaker 2>And it's just keep it as authentic as as I

0:55:45.280 --> 0:55:47.400
<v Speaker 2>possibly can and just keep my eye on the ball.

0:55:48.020 --> 0:55:51.299
<v Speaker 2>Don't look at opportunities that are going to increase my

0:55:51.340 --> 0:55:55.420
<v Speaker 2>profile if it's not something where I can deliver something

0:55:55.940 --> 0:55:57.860
<v Speaker 2>that's going to actually help someone.

0:55:58.340 --> 0:55:59.299
<v Speaker 1>That part.

0:55:59.520 --> 0:56:04.310
<v Speaker 2>Don't take money and do opportunities just because it's there.

0:56:04.930 --> 0:56:07.069
<v Speaker 2>Do it because it's with good people who are doing

0:56:07.130 --> 0:56:10.230
<v Speaker 2>meaningful work and it's going to enrich the community in

0:56:10.510 --> 0:56:16.120
<v Speaker 2>some sorts. And it's just being led by that you know, always,

0:56:16.140 --> 0:56:20.060
<v Speaker 2>you know, as opposed to getting pulled into being some

0:56:20.120 --> 0:56:24.730
<v Speaker 2>weird facsimile of yourself where you're just performing this, you know,

0:56:25.310 --> 0:56:27.370
<v Speaker 2>you become a Senator, you know, you're just like up

0:56:27.430 --> 0:56:29.689
<v Speaker 2>there giving a stump speech as opposed to actually living

0:56:29.730 --> 0:56:33.390
<v Speaker 2>the thing. And, um, I don't know. I've always thought that,

0:56:33.469 --> 0:56:37.370
<v Speaker 2>that I've always had that, that mindset. And I think

0:56:37.410 --> 0:56:40.250
<v Speaker 2>it's the, the reason for, and the limit to my

0:56:40.469 --> 0:56:43.060
<v Speaker 2>personal success is It's why I.

0:56:43.120 --> 0:56:43.899
<v Speaker 1>Same. Yeah.

0:56:43.920 --> 0:56:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Same, same. It's like, it's why we're here, but it's also,

0:56:49.900 --> 0:56:52.660
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to be a top five podcaster. Yeah.

0:56:52.700 --> 0:56:53.000
<v Speaker 2>You know?

0:56:53.060 --> 0:56:53.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:56:53.580 --> 0:56:54.880
<v Speaker 2>And I don't want to be.

0:56:55.200 --> 0:56:56.410
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah.

0:56:56.780 --> 0:56:59.730
<v Speaker 2>Because at a certain level also the game starts changing

0:57:00.430 --> 0:57:02.150
<v Speaker 2>and that's not why I'm doing this stuff.

0:57:02.750 --> 0:57:06.830
<v Speaker 1>That part, that part, that part. It's so, yeah, it's

0:57:06.850 --> 0:57:08.790
<v Speaker 1>so interesting. I mean, you know, it's the zeitgeist, it's

0:57:08.810 --> 0:57:11.550
<v Speaker 1>human nature. It's like the tale as old as time.

0:57:11.590 --> 0:57:15.930
<v Speaker 1>Like everyone, you know, people are neatly like drawn to

0:57:16.050 --> 0:57:20.150
<v Speaker 1>shiny or want popular or want, you know, more and

0:57:20.190 --> 0:57:22.850
<v Speaker 1>more and more. And I think, I think throughout my life,

0:57:22.910 --> 0:57:25.350
<v Speaker 1>even when I worked in the music industry to today,

0:57:25.470 --> 0:57:28.130
<v Speaker 1>like people are like, oh, you're way too humble. You're

0:57:28.190 --> 0:57:30.350
<v Speaker 1>too humble. Like you should be, why don't you talk

0:57:30.390 --> 0:57:32.310
<v Speaker 1>about this more or that more? Or why don't you,

0:57:32.430 --> 0:57:34.730
<v Speaker 1>you know, post pictures like this? And I'm like, And

0:57:34.770 --> 0:57:35.470
<v Speaker 1>to what end?

0:57:35.610 --> 0:57:36.230
<v Speaker 2>Exactly.

0:57:37.170 --> 0:57:39.490
<v Speaker 1>What does that mean for me? I'm having the experience.

0:57:39.550 --> 0:57:41.740
<v Speaker 1>I'm living my life. I'm doing what God tells me

0:57:41.800 --> 0:57:45.140
<v Speaker 1>to do. And it's like, I don't... Who would I

0:57:45.220 --> 0:57:46.300
<v Speaker 1>need to impress?

0:57:46.420 --> 0:57:47.420
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

0:57:47.720 --> 0:57:50.580
<v Speaker 1>What is it that I think will happen.

0:57:50.320 --> 0:57:51.260
<v Speaker 2>If I do that?

0:57:51.380 --> 0:57:52.260
<v Speaker 1>You know what I mean?

0:57:53.020 --> 0:57:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:57:53.620 --> 0:57:59.430
<v Speaker 1>It already is. Yeah. It's just, yeah. It's so... It's

0:57:59.470 --> 0:58:02.530
<v Speaker 1>so fascinating, but it's also so powerful. And sometimes, and

0:58:02.550 --> 0:58:06.590
<v Speaker 1>I offer this to anyone listening that resonates, it's you

0:58:06.710 --> 0:58:09.990
<v Speaker 1>have to build patience for your life. You have to

0:58:10.050 --> 0:58:13.160
<v Speaker 1>build your own pacing. You know, it's so over the years,

0:58:13.200 --> 0:58:15.220
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I've had so many people come up

0:58:15.260 --> 0:58:17.520
<v Speaker 1>to me even after I do an event and be like, okay,

0:58:17.600 --> 0:58:19.520
<v Speaker 1>I want to help you scale. How are we going

0:58:19.540 --> 0:58:22.380
<v Speaker 1>to scale? And I'm like, I don't want to scale.

0:58:22.620 --> 0:58:22.860
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:58:23.020 --> 0:58:26.510
<v Speaker 1>Like that's scale. What exactly? I'm, I'm me. That's what

0:58:26.530 --> 0:58:30.410
<v Speaker 1>you're connecting to me. I can't scale me, not if

0:58:30.470 --> 0:58:32.880
<v Speaker 1>I want the quality of life and everything else that

0:58:32.910 --> 0:58:35.600
<v Speaker 1>I want to have. And, you know, um, and if

0:58:35.640 --> 0:58:38.060
<v Speaker 1>I'm listening to my own call, why do I need to,

0:58:38.980 --> 0:58:42.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, like the intimacy of this work is what

0:58:42.200 --> 0:58:43.080
<v Speaker 1>I love the most.

0:58:43.300 --> 0:58:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Yes. And it shows too. I mean, I feel like

0:58:46.200 --> 0:58:49.080
<v Speaker 2>that's from the very beginning of whenever I became aware

0:58:49.120 --> 0:58:51.540
<v Speaker 2>of what you're doing, I was drawn to what you're

0:58:51.560 --> 0:58:54.480
<v Speaker 2>doing because it was immediately apparent, you know, in that

0:58:54.640 --> 0:58:57.320
<v Speaker 2>as like, yeah, of course. And like the way that

0:58:57.360 --> 0:59:00.919
<v Speaker 2>you go around and I mean, the amount of stuff

0:59:00.940 --> 0:59:04.570
<v Speaker 2>that you do with hosting things and bringing these conversations,

0:59:04.590 --> 0:59:06.170
<v Speaker 2>it's unbelievable.

0:59:06.190 --> 0:59:06.850
<v Speaker 1>Should be working.

0:59:07.050 --> 0:59:10.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and the fact that you... and the fact that

0:59:10.220 --> 0:59:15.460
<v Speaker 2>you're able to, that you've figured out how to maintain

0:59:15.580 --> 0:59:18.820
<v Speaker 2>balance as best as possible while still flying close to

0:59:18.860 --> 0:59:21.650
<v Speaker 2>the sun, you know, it's like you're, you're definitely, you're

0:59:21.670 --> 0:59:24.950
<v Speaker 2>putting in a crazy amount of work, but you're still

0:59:25.350 --> 0:59:29.980
<v Speaker 2>somehow maintaining balance. that authentic Devi that I first became

0:59:30.020 --> 0:59:33.320
<v Speaker 2>aware of, you know, and it's, it's really amazing. And

0:59:34.180 --> 0:59:39.570
<v Speaker 2>I hope that you feel that the truth of that,

0:59:41.030 --> 0:59:43.490
<v Speaker 2>because it's hard whenever we're in our heads, like, you know,

0:59:44.290 --> 0:59:46.510
<v Speaker 2>if anyone, but just in, you're in my position where

0:59:46.530 --> 0:59:50.020
<v Speaker 2>you have this like public facing life and a private life.

0:59:51.160 --> 0:59:56.170
<v Speaker 2>And as things change over time with your the attention

0:59:56.210 --> 0:59:58.130
<v Speaker 2>you get or the opportunities that you get or like

0:59:58.190 --> 1:00:01.590
<v Speaker 2>what you're doing in the world, like you change and

1:00:01.650 --> 1:00:07.030
<v Speaker 2>that's natural. Like your goals change, what your, your values,

1:00:07.070 --> 1:00:09.050
<v Speaker 2>your plan, kind of your idea of what you're trying

1:00:09.090 --> 1:00:13.310
<v Speaker 2>to do changes. But it's important. I think for me,

1:00:13.330 --> 1:00:17.690
<v Speaker 2>I always pay attention to like, all right, maybe the

1:00:17.870 --> 1:00:20.740
<v Speaker 2>year me from five years ago wouldn't agree with the

1:00:20.780 --> 1:00:24.130
<v Speaker 2>way I'm doing things now. He probably wouldn't, you know? And,

1:00:26.380 --> 1:00:29.459
<v Speaker 2>What does that mean? Is it because now I know

1:00:29.540 --> 1:00:32.120
<v Speaker 2>something different and I'm operating with new information and I'm

1:00:32.180 --> 1:00:37.890
<v Speaker 2>trying to take that same real kernel of wholesomeness and

1:00:37.950 --> 1:00:41.610
<v Speaker 2>skillfulness then and push it forward even more. But I

1:00:41.650 --> 1:00:44.110
<v Speaker 2>didn't know then what I know now. I know how

1:00:44.170 --> 1:00:47.340
<v Speaker 2>to do it differently. And while I'm doing that, let

1:00:47.380 --> 1:00:50.240
<v Speaker 2>me make sure I stay aligned and don't let any

1:00:50.280 --> 1:00:52.560
<v Speaker 2>of this other stuff, these tentacles that are reaching out

1:00:52.600 --> 1:00:54.990
<v Speaker 2>of the abyss, They're trying, you know, try to pull

1:00:55.010 --> 1:00:58.330
<v Speaker 2>you in, in this direction, like making sure you're steering

1:00:58.350 --> 1:01:01.130
<v Speaker 2>clear of those. It gets slippery sometimes and it's weird,

1:01:01.150 --> 1:01:04.370
<v Speaker 2>you know, but I think it's so important to stay,

1:01:04.390 --> 1:01:07.790
<v Speaker 2>you know, amongst all of that, you know, being out

1:01:07.810 --> 1:01:12.050
<v Speaker 2>in the forest, just staying sharp and just staying connected

1:01:12.150 --> 1:01:14.630
<v Speaker 2>to your, well, what I always come back to is

1:01:14.670 --> 1:01:19.850
<v Speaker 2>your honesty, your integrity and your intention. Like I always remember, like,

1:01:19.930 --> 1:01:22.110
<v Speaker 2>I just want to stay rooted in that. And I

1:01:22.130 --> 1:01:24.690
<v Speaker 2>just have, you know, I've seen you stay rooted in

1:01:24.730 --> 1:01:27.610
<v Speaker 2>all that through all of the things you've done and

1:01:27.630 --> 1:01:29.630
<v Speaker 2>the people that you've met and the change that you've

1:01:29.690 --> 1:01:31.490
<v Speaker 2>created over the last couple of years. And it's really,

1:01:32.190 --> 1:01:36.970
<v Speaker 2>really impressive. And it's inspiring too, you know, because like

1:01:37.810 --> 1:01:41.439
<v Speaker 2>I know people, you know, we have mutual friends that

1:01:42.040 --> 1:01:45.780
<v Speaker 2>I have seen shift for the worse over the last

1:01:46.460 --> 1:01:50.340
<v Speaker 2>year or two. You know, and maybe they'll come back

1:01:50.360 --> 1:01:53.310
<v Speaker 2>to being who they were or maybe they won't. Yeah.

1:01:53.570 --> 1:01:55.550
<v Speaker 2>But it happens. It's a real thing, you know.

1:01:55.630 --> 1:01:56.590
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:01:57.310 --> 1:01:59.730
<v Speaker 2>But just the way that you've carried all this stuff

1:01:59.790 --> 1:02:01.490
<v Speaker 2>is really, really beautiful.

1:02:01.710 --> 1:02:02.750
<v Speaker 1>That's so generous.

1:02:03.150 --> 1:02:06.280
<v Speaker 2>No, it's not. It's not even generous. It's not. It's

1:02:06.320 --> 1:02:09.960
<v Speaker 2>not even generous. It's just truth. I'm not being nice.

1:02:10.980 --> 1:02:11.480
<v Speaker 1>No, I trust that.

1:02:11.500 --> 1:02:12.040
<v Speaker 2>You know what I'm saying?

1:02:12.060 --> 1:02:12.260
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:02:12.380 --> 1:02:13.660
<v Speaker 2>I'm just telling you what's like reality.

1:02:13.680 --> 1:02:29.730
<v Speaker 1>I trust that. You know, I think it's like with everything,

1:02:29.770 --> 1:02:32.290
<v Speaker 1>but especially if you are called to lead, right? Like

1:02:32.330 --> 1:02:36.230
<v Speaker 1>if you are sharing what you work so hard to

1:02:36.270 --> 1:02:39.990
<v Speaker 1>get in congruence inside and you're sharing it with others,

1:02:40.030 --> 1:02:43.730
<v Speaker 1>like it's the most intimate act possible and you are

1:02:43.930 --> 1:02:48.110
<v Speaker 1>linked deeply with their soul's journey and trajectory, even if

1:02:48.150 --> 1:02:50.410
<v Speaker 1>you're just a blip on the radar for their journey,

1:02:50.930 --> 1:02:54.170
<v Speaker 1>there's an effect, you know, and, and even believing in,

1:02:54.290 --> 1:02:59.820
<v Speaker 1>you know, just that we explore our curriculum over multiple lifetimes. And,

1:03:00.060 --> 1:03:03.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, I believe, um, yeah, just all of that

1:03:03.340 --> 1:03:06.640
<v Speaker 1>and everything being set into motion in that way. It's just,

1:03:07.460 --> 1:03:12.210
<v Speaker 1>it's so imperative to know who you are and to

1:03:12.270 --> 1:03:17.210
<v Speaker 1>know whose you are, you know, like just so, so

1:03:17.390 --> 1:03:21.250
<v Speaker 1>deeply and always to come back to that. Um, and

1:03:21.290 --> 1:03:23.440
<v Speaker 1>I think I'm also, I would say, I'll just share

1:03:23.460 --> 1:03:27.180
<v Speaker 1>a little bit, tiny bit about myself. Um, because I

1:03:27.220 --> 1:03:30.970
<v Speaker 1>have also been long to be talked to like this

1:03:31.070 --> 1:03:33.090
<v Speaker 1>in an interview that I give to be able to

1:03:33.130 --> 1:03:36.170
<v Speaker 1>get this kind of stuff out of me. But you

1:03:36.190 --> 1:03:38.970
<v Speaker 1>know what I think I really appreciate about my journey,

1:03:39.010 --> 1:03:42.770
<v Speaker 1>and I know where we land, especially at our ages

1:03:42.840 --> 1:03:48.240
<v Speaker 1>and our generation, we're really gifted the benefit of 2020

1:03:48.240 --> 1:03:50.320
<v Speaker 1>vision now. I don't know how old you are, but

1:03:50.340 --> 1:03:54.100
<v Speaker 1>I'm in my early 40s. 44. Okay. So we have

1:03:54.200 --> 1:03:58.230
<v Speaker 1>lived enough- that we really get to look back and

1:03:58.350 --> 1:04:01.890
<v Speaker 1>see if our intuition, if our theories, if the way

1:04:02.310 --> 1:04:06.560
<v Speaker 1>we made choices or saw other people make choices, how

1:04:06.580 --> 1:04:09.120
<v Speaker 1>that really panned out, you know, and, and we're at

1:04:09.160 --> 1:04:14.280
<v Speaker 1>a very specific juncture in our lives where, um, people

1:04:14.360 --> 1:04:17.700
<v Speaker 1>split in the road, you know, it's, it's the midlife marker.

1:04:18.780 --> 1:04:21.440
<v Speaker 1>So I think, um, When I look back on my

1:04:21.520 --> 1:04:24.060
<v Speaker 1>life and the moment I'm in right now, something I

1:04:24.080 --> 1:04:29.460
<v Speaker 1>feel very lucky in and understand is that God has

1:04:29.500 --> 1:04:33.530
<v Speaker 1>been training me for so long. And not just in

1:04:33.570 --> 1:04:37.610
<v Speaker 1>the ways in terms of my emotional world or intellect

1:04:37.750 --> 1:04:42.970
<v Speaker 1>or the practices, but I born and raised in LA.

1:04:43.340 --> 1:04:46.100
<v Speaker 1>It's a very different kind of upbringing, but especially in

1:04:46.660 --> 1:04:49.660
<v Speaker 1>how you, not as, not as someone that moved here

1:04:49.700 --> 1:04:53.840
<v Speaker 1>for opportunity, but this is just my hometown. The way

1:04:54.000 --> 1:04:58.220
<v Speaker 1>you relate in general to attention and fame is just

1:04:58.440 --> 1:05:03.330
<v Speaker 1>so different. It's just so different. It doesn't have the

1:05:03.430 --> 1:05:06.910
<v Speaker 1>same kind of feeling or hold in you. Um, in

1:05:06.930 --> 1:05:08.990
<v Speaker 1>the way that I think people who move here to

1:05:09.050 --> 1:05:13.090
<v Speaker 1>accomplish some of those bigger special dreams, the way it does. Um,

1:05:13.820 --> 1:05:16.120
<v Speaker 1>but I'd also say like starting my path in the

1:05:16.220 --> 1:05:19.640
<v Speaker 1>industry at 19 years old, I was working in the

1:05:19.680 --> 1:05:23.660
<v Speaker 1>music industry. I was meeting the most insane. I've met

1:05:23.740 --> 1:05:27.360
<v Speaker 1>every hero I've ever had, you know, um, and also

1:05:27.440 --> 1:05:33.520
<v Speaker 1>started my own career. So my relationship with. I would say,

1:05:33.540 --> 1:05:37.470
<v Speaker 1>but this might be a reach. high level visibility started

1:05:37.890 --> 1:05:42.280
<v Speaker 1>really really young so part of my curriculum has been

1:05:42.380 --> 1:05:48.460
<v Speaker 1>evaluating and renegotiating my contract with visibility over 20 years

1:05:49.540 --> 1:05:53.930
<v Speaker 1>and then also leaving the industry i was in i

1:05:54.150 --> 1:06:00.610
<v Speaker 1>retired from entertainment 10 years ago because i could see

1:06:00.770 --> 1:06:05.460
<v Speaker 1>and track and was being really repulsed by the maze

1:06:05.500 --> 1:06:08.480
<v Speaker 1>of ego that's impossible to get out of in that world.

1:06:09.240 --> 1:06:12.400
<v Speaker 1>And knowing that like I just, that's not how I'm built.

1:06:12.540 --> 1:06:16.040
<v Speaker 1>That's not how I'm wired. I'm not wired to compete.

1:06:16.140 --> 1:06:18.760
<v Speaker 1>I don't look at anything as competition. Not even the

1:06:18.800 --> 1:06:22.280
<v Speaker 1>things I want that other people want too. I guess

1:06:22.320 --> 1:06:24.840
<v Speaker 1>I would be in old language like a type B person.

1:06:24.990 --> 1:06:29.250
<v Speaker 1>I don't have a naturally comparative or competitive spirit. But

1:06:29.310 --> 1:06:32.050
<v Speaker 1>existing in the worlds that do, it makes you think

1:06:32.090 --> 1:06:35.920
<v Speaker 1>you're crazy. And it makes you feel like you have

1:06:35.960 --> 1:06:38.660
<v Speaker 1>to fight to learn how to be in your own

1:06:38.760 --> 1:06:42.590
<v Speaker 1>power because everyone else wants you to compare too. Everyone

1:06:42.630 --> 1:06:45.970
<v Speaker 1>else wants you to be competing because they are. And

1:06:46.010 --> 1:06:48.330
<v Speaker 1>so I think just being able to have had so

1:06:48.370 --> 1:06:53.150
<v Speaker 1>much practice operating with those energies, I got to a

1:06:53.210 --> 1:06:56.290
<v Speaker 1>place very young where I started my journey of mastery

1:06:56.350 --> 1:06:59.490
<v Speaker 1>with them, which then allowed me to say, I want

1:06:59.510 --> 1:07:02.030
<v Speaker 1>to disappear for a while. And then when I'm ready

1:07:02.100 --> 1:07:06.090
<v Speaker 1>to do things, It just means something different to me.

1:07:07.170 --> 1:07:09.030
<v Speaker 2>That's beautiful. Yeah, I totally see that.

1:07:09.050 --> 1:07:09.590
<v Speaker 1>I hope I made sense.

1:07:09.610 --> 1:07:10.630
<v Speaker 2>Of course, of course, of course.

1:07:10.650 --> 1:07:11.590
<v Speaker 1>Okay, I was rambling, but.

1:07:11.650 --> 1:07:15.640
<v Speaker 2>No, no, no, it made perfect sense. It's you grew

1:07:15.740 --> 1:07:18.620
<v Speaker 2>up from an early age seeing people who had a

1:07:18.660 --> 1:07:23.620
<v Speaker 2>level of notoriety or celebrity or really that thing that

1:07:23.680 --> 1:07:26.890
<v Speaker 2>people look at and go, oh, that's special. I strive

1:07:26.930 --> 1:07:28.910
<v Speaker 2>to be like that or be around that or have

1:07:28.930 --> 1:07:33.230
<v Speaker 2>that person pay me attention or something. And you being

1:07:33.830 --> 1:07:37.870
<v Speaker 2>intimately close with these people, you realize that they're just people.

1:07:38.930 --> 1:07:43.420
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. And you realize the nature of projection that the

1:07:43.580 --> 1:07:47.460
<v Speaker 1>masses have to their perception of things. And so I

1:07:47.500 --> 1:07:54.910
<v Speaker 1>think that really helped me because I could understand just

1:07:54.990 --> 1:08:00.050
<v Speaker 1>what is really make-believe, what really matters, you know, and

1:08:00.110 --> 1:08:03.710
<v Speaker 1>also just having the the pleasure of a lot of

1:08:03.870 --> 1:08:07.470
<v Speaker 1>different kinds of observation of a lot of different kinds

1:08:07.510 --> 1:08:11.470
<v Speaker 1>of people and atmospheres. And I think I've seen so

1:08:11.640 --> 1:08:18.800
<v Speaker 1>many young people with incredible talent. Some have gone on

1:08:18.939 --> 1:08:21.700
<v Speaker 1>to be some of the biggest stars out. Some have

1:08:21.740 --> 1:08:24.700
<v Speaker 1>gone on to completely crash out, right? And so you

1:08:24.780 --> 1:08:27.850
<v Speaker 1>also have the humility of knowing that, right? Like that

1:08:28.130 --> 1:08:31.170
<v Speaker 1>everything is an ebb and flow. Everything is kind of

1:08:31.229 --> 1:08:35.760
<v Speaker 1>that swinging of the pendulum, you know? And so just

1:08:36.160 --> 1:08:39.780
<v Speaker 1>always be humble. Sometimes it's your moment, sometimes it isn't.

1:08:39.939 --> 1:08:42.740
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes it's not meant to be that you'll have one.

1:08:43.660 --> 1:08:47.650
<v Speaker 1>But your life is still valuable and meaningful, and there

1:08:47.700 --> 1:08:51.189
<v Speaker 1>are still things that only you uniquely are here to do.

1:08:51.630 --> 1:08:52.270
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely.

1:08:52.570 --> 1:08:54.870
<v Speaker 1>And even if other people don't know about it, it

1:08:55.090 --> 1:08:57.650
<v Speaker 1>matters so much to God and to the world.

1:08:58.050 --> 1:09:02.140
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and and like, I feel like people, sometimes they

1:09:02.479 --> 1:09:05.640
<v Speaker 2>think that the only place where they'll do something meaningful

1:09:06.320 --> 1:09:08.840
<v Speaker 2>is in this projected idea of like what they're supposed

1:09:08.880 --> 1:09:10.300
<v Speaker 2>to be doing in terms of like, I need to

1:09:10.340 --> 1:09:13.820
<v Speaker 2>be a famous musician or actor or bestselling author. And like,

1:09:14.360 --> 1:09:17.600
<v Speaker 2>just because those things weren't in the cards, um, It

1:09:17.640 --> 1:09:19.460
<v Speaker 2>doesn't mean that there's not something else you could be

1:09:19.500 --> 1:09:23.260
<v Speaker 2>doing that could be profoundly meaningful or would be. It's

1:09:23.280 --> 1:09:27.180
<v Speaker 2>just not the thing that you've realized yet. And meaning

1:09:27.260 --> 1:09:33.660
<v Speaker 2>doesn't come from visibility. Right. It comes from earth moving,

1:09:33.689 --> 1:09:37.790
<v Speaker 2>you know, type of soulful work that you do. That

1:09:37.810 --> 1:09:41.910
<v Speaker 2>could be working at a school somewhere. That could be.

1:09:41.930 --> 1:09:42.929
<v Speaker 1>My God, yes.

1:09:42.990 --> 1:09:46.150
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it could be like whatever, you know. something that's

1:09:46.450 --> 1:09:48.849
<v Speaker 2>a quote unquote normal thing that doesn't have a lot

1:09:48.890 --> 1:09:53.460
<v Speaker 2>of visibility often can be the most meaningful things because

1:09:53.479 --> 1:09:56.100
<v Speaker 2>they don't have all the entrapment and all the confusion

1:09:56.580 --> 1:09:58.720
<v Speaker 2>that comes with visibility and stuff. Yes.

1:09:58.840 --> 1:10:00.259
<v Speaker 1>Oh my God, that part.

1:10:00.320 --> 1:10:03.540
<v Speaker 2>But I think one of the really awesome things that

1:10:03.640 --> 1:10:07.200
<v Speaker 2>I hear in your story is that because you lived

1:10:07.300 --> 1:10:10.920
<v Speaker 2>through that experience at a young age and being able

1:10:10.939 --> 1:10:15.220
<v Speaker 2>to see both sides of personality and story, projection, all

1:10:15.240 --> 1:10:19.360
<v Speaker 2>of that stuff. Then whenever you decided to reenter this

1:10:19.439 --> 1:10:23.960
<v Speaker 2>world and started doing your own work in the wellness space,

1:10:24.880 --> 1:10:28.360
<v Speaker 2>you already had 2020 vision. You had the x-ray vision

1:10:28.520 --> 1:10:30.809
<v Speaker 2>on all of the people and any of the quote

1:10:30.820 --> 1:10:35.050
<v Speaker 2>unquote stars were, it's like laughable, I'm sure in the

1:10:35.090 --> 1:10:39.120
<v Speaker 2>levels of notoriety versus people in the music business. Where

1:10:39.160 --> 1:10:41.260
<v Speaker 2>it's like, so you have a clear vision.

1:10:41.280 --> 1:10:44.460
<v Speaker 1>Well, and I don't mean laughable, but I am connecting

1:10:44.479 --> 1:10:45.120
<v Speaker 1>to what you're saying.

1:10:45.360 --> 1:10:46.620
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I mean, I don't mean that in a

1:10:46.660 --> 1:10:51.120
<v Speaker 2>derogative way. I mean, like just the levels of where

1:10:51.200 --> 1:10:53.760
<v Speaker 2>they think they are versus who else is out in

1:10:53.800 --> 1:10:56.839
<v Speaker 2>the world. There's levels to this thing, you know, to notoriety.

1:10:56.860 --> 1:10:59.040
<v Speaker 2>And some people like in the wellness world think that

1:10:59.060 --> 1:11:01.980
<v Speaker 2>they're like hot shit. And it's like, you're still not,

1:11:02.100 --> 1:11:05.219
<v Speaker 2>you're not like, you're not like a household name, like relax,

1:11:05.320 --> 1:11:05.580
<v Speaker 2>you know?

1:11:05.979 --> 1:11:10.509
<v Speaker 1>And also the desire to be hot shit in wellness

1:11:10.670 --> 1:11:14.170
<v Speaker 1>automatically lets me know just where you're at in your

1:11:14.210 --> 1:11:17.260
<v Speaker 1>inner self, in your inner world. And it's like, yeah,

1:11:17.270 --> 1:11:21.099
<v Speaker 1>I'm not consuming you in that way. I think, too,

1:11:21.160 --> 1:11:25.420
<v Speaker 1>it's like the nature I've had. I've gotten to know

1:11:25.520 --> 1:11:30.960
<v Speaker 1>incredibly special people who are amazing. great people. So it's

1:11:30.979 --> 1:11:33.099
<v Speaker 1>like to that degree of what you're saying, it's like

1:11:33.200 --> 1:11:35.960
<v Speaker 1>when you've come across people that have really, I mean,

1:11:36.770 --> 1:11:40.250
<v Speaker 1>made a mark on humanity that will last for hundreds

1:11:40.290 --> 1:11:44.410
<v Speaker 1>of years and you know how they hold themselves, how

1:11:44.450 --> 1:11:48.270
<v Speaker 1>they see themselves, the connection they have to God and

1:11:48.310 --> 1:11:54.500
<v Speaker 1>their work and the work, the creativity, the churning, the

1:11:54.600 --> 1:11:59.330
<v Speaker 1>torture of it. And the true humility of it and

1:11:59.370 --> 1:12:02.230
<v Speaker 1>the burdens of it. You're just kind of like, and

1:12:02.290 --> 1:12:04.890
<v Speaker 1>you want me to be impressed because of followers?

1:12:05.010 --> 1:12:05.130
<v Speaker 2>Right.

1:12:06.390 --> 1:12:09.470
<v Speaker 1>Because you have a hundred thousand more followers than I do.

1:12:09.530 --> 1:12:14.000
<v Speaker 1>That makes you more valuable than me as a human being. No,

1:12:14.300 --> 1:12:15.660
<v Speaker 1>that's so silly.

1:12:16.180 --> 1:12:16.560
<v Speaker 2>Truly.

1:12:17.100 --> 1:12:19.320
<v Speaker 1>It's so silly. Yeah.

1:12:19.340 --> 1:12:21.180
<v Speaker 2>It's like, I think about that in the same way

1:12:21.200 --> 1:12:24.979
<v Speaker 2>of like, one of the things that never ceases to just,

1:12:25.000 --> 1:12:27.450
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it's sort of, tickles me and is

1:12:27.530 --> 1:12:30.710
<v Speaker 2>weird and is when people buy nice cars to try

1:12:30.750 --> 1:12:33.690
<v Speaker 2>and see more successful than they are where it's like

1:12:33.750 --> 1:12:37.400
<v Speaker 2>taking out a loan to buy a depreciating asset to

1:12:37.420 --> 1:12:41.080
<v Speaker 2>look more successful so you're literally like you're you have

1:12:41.200 --> 1:12:43.700
<v Speaker 2>less money than you did to try and look successful

1:12:44.080 --> 1:12:46.350
<v Speaker 2>and that part of the mechanism of the human brain

1:12:46.400 --> 1:12:49.309
<v Speaker 2>is such an interesting type of way that we'll sort

1:12:49.350 --> 1:12:52.790
<v Speaker 2>of lie to ourselves about where our value really sits

1:12:53.270 --> 1:12:55.090
<v Speaker 2>and i suppose it shows as to your point of

1:12:55.130 --> 1:12:58.820
<v Speaker 2>like where someone is positioned internally and what matters to them,

1:12:58.840 --> 1:13:02.939
<v Speaker 2>you know? And it's like, I don't know. I also

1:13:02.979 --> 1:13:07.760
<v Speaker 2>think that people who do honest work, there's a staying

1:13:07.820 --> 1:13:10.660
<v Speaker 2>power that comes with that because honest work stands the

1:13:10.700 --> 1:13:13.670
<v Speaker 2>test of time, you know? And people, I think people

1:13:13.689 --> 1:13:16.130
<v Speaker 2>who are listening to this that wants to somehow be

1:13:16.189 --> 1:13:20.090
<v Speaker 2>doing the work, perhaps it's important to understand that if

1:13:20.130 --> 1:13:23.930
<v Speaker 2>you were doing genuine work, it's going to take longer

1:13:24.030 --> 1:13:29.099
<v Speaker 2>to take off. but your trajectory will be a lot

1:13:29.620 --> 1:13:33.620
<v Speaker 2>longer and smoother than someone who cuts through really quickly

1:13:34.420 --> 1:13:37.700
<v Speaker 2>because people who cut through quickly generally also have a

1:13:37.720 --> 1:13:40.400
<v Speaker 2>lot of dynamics of either disappearing quickly or then having

1:13:40.439 --> 1:13:44.040
<v Speaker 2>a very chaotic sort of experience in the same time.

1:13:44.080 --> 1:13:47.900
<v Speaker 2>So just, I don't know. I've always thought like focus

1:13:47.979 --> 1:13:51.430
<v Speaker 2>on doing what's right and everything else that needs to

1:13:51.490 --> 1:13:53.670
<v Speaker 2>come to continue to do that will come.

1:13:54.840 --> 1:13:58.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah. Your life's work is allowed to take your

1:13:58.280 --> 1:13:58.700
<v Speaker 1>whole life.

1:13:59.260 --> 1:13:59.440
<v Speaker 2>Mm-hmm.

1:14:00.640 --> 1:14:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Truly, truly, truly.

1:14:02.740 --> 1:14:06.100
<v Speaker 2>I love that. I love that. That's so good. Is

1:14:06.120 --> 1:14:07.110
<v Speaker 2>that a Devi original?

1:14:07.590 --> 1:14:11.670
<v Speaker 1>You know what? It's a paraphrase. My dear friend, Vish Chatterjee,

1:14:11.790 --> 1:14:19.310
<v Speaker 1>who's an incredible, he was an MIT-trained businessman turned astrologer.

1:14:19.340 --> 1:14:20.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh, okay.

1:14:20.740 --> 1:14:23.160
<v Speaker 1>And I just, oh, God, I adore him. But he's

1:14:23.200 --> 1:14:26.020
<v Speaker 1>been on the show. I was doing a session with

1:14:26.080 --> 1:14:29.140
<v Speaker 1>him once and he said that to me because I

1:14:29.160 --> 1:14:31.800
<v Speaker 1>was just kind of in my own head years ago

1:14:31.900 --> 1:14:35.020
<v Speaker 1>about the urgency within which I felt like I needed

1:14:35.100 --> 1:14:37.689
<v Speaker 1>to be creating things and pushing them out. And like,

1:14:38.150 --> 1:14:42.269
<v Speaker 1>I just had this pressure on myself. And he said, Debbie,

1:14:43.150 --> 1:14:46.290
<v Speaker 1>if it's your life's work, it's supposed to take your

1:14:46.310 --> 1:14:46.590
<v Speaker 1>whole life.

1:14:47.870 --> 1:14:48.510
<v Speaker 2>That's so good.

1:14:48.880 --> 1:14:51.380
<v Speaker 1>It meant everything to me. So it's something that, yeah,

1:14:51.420 --> 1:14:55.260
<v Speaker 1>I hold dear and that I've reshaped in a few

1:14:55.280 --> 1:14:56.099
<v Speaker 1>ways for myself.

1:14:56.500 --> 1:14:58.889
<v Speaker 2>I love that. I love that. Yeah. Because that's some

1:14:58.930 --> 1:15:01.090
<v Speaker 2>of the other, you know, going back to what like

1:15:01.170 --> 1:15:04.070
<v Speaker 2>people in the world are seeking and looking for. Yeah.

1:15:04.170 --> 1:15:08.830
<v Speaker 2>Everyone feels like they're falling behind. Yeah. I'm like, falling behind? What?

1:15:09.729 --> 1:15:10.790
<v Speaker 2>From what? Right.

1:15:13.150 --> 1:15:16.150
<v Speaker 1>Who is the judge? Yeah. I know. It's so fascinating.

1:15:16.180 --> 1:15:16.570
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:15:17.100 --> 1:15:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Corey, you're going to have to like move here if

1:15:19.420 --> 1:15:22.360
<v Speaker 1>we keep talking. So I want to, you know, at

1:15:22.380 --> 1:15:24.780
<v Speaker 1>the end of every episode and also let me just

1:15:24.860 --> 1:15:28.979
<v Speaker 1>really also say everyone, Corey, again, his latest book is

1:15:29.040 --> 1:15:33.890
<v Speaker 1>available everywhere now. The Quiet Age, Creating a Calm Life

1:15:34.060 --> 1:15:37.730
<v Speaker 1>in a Chaotic World. It is so beautiful. I love

1:15:37.790 --> 1:15:40.309
<v Speaker 1>too on the back, like right when I turned it over,

1:15:40.350 --> 1:15:43.310
<v Speaker 1>I was like, oh, that's beautiful. That's so good. A

1:15:43.410 --> 1:15:47.729
<v Speaker 1>quiet life is not an empty life. It is a

1:15:47.770 --> 1:15:52.370
<v Speaker 1>life of depth, meaning, and the things that truly matter.

1:15:52.670 --> 1:15:53.350
<v Speaker 2>God.

1:15:55.410 --> 1:15:59.720
<v Speaker 1>That is a life creed. That's really beautiful. This book

1:15:59.900 --> 1:16:02.960
<v Speaker 1>is linked everywhere in the show notes and all the

1:16:02.979 --> 1:16:05.400
<v Speaker 1>ways that you can connect with Corey. Just scroll down,

1:16:05.520 --> 1:16:09.140
<v Speaker 1>click on the links, and really share this episode with

1:16:09.180 --> 1:16:11.900
<v Speaker 1>a friend. Corey, I love to offer at the end

1:16:11.939 --> 1:16:15.070
<v Speaker 1>of every episode to our guest an opportunity to give

1:16:15.250 --> 1:16:16.810
<v Speaker 1>soul work to the audience.

1:16:16.830 --> 1:16:16.900
<v Speaker 2>Yes.

1:16:17.430 --> 1:16:20.229
<v Speaker 1>So it's something after kind of taking in this long,

1:16:20.310 --> 1:16:25.510
<v Speaker 1>beautiful conversation to spend time integrating with until we meet

1:16:25.570 --> 1:16:28.190
<v Speaker 1>each other again on this show. So it can be

1:16:28.330 --> 1:16:36.200
<v Speaker 1>anything from a quote to a practice to anything that

1:16:36.260 --> 1:16:39.260
<v Speaker 1>brings about some level of embodiment, I would say.

1:16:39.920 --> 1:16:44.380
<v Speaker 2>I love that. I would say watch your mind and

1:16:44.400 --> 1:16:51.759
<v Speaker 2>you'll never be without a teacher. just keep paying attention

1:16:52.460 --> 1:16:57.460
<v Speaker 2>to your thoughts, your reactions, your emotions that are arising,

1:16:58.640 --> 1:17:03.099
<v Speaker 2>and notice how they're making you feel, what they're urging

1:17:03.140 --> 1:17:07.340
<v Speaker 2>you to do, and what type of things that are

1:17:07.420 --> 1:17:11.389
<v Speaker 2>integrating in you. And as long as you keep paying

1:17:11.400 --> 1:17:17.710
<v Speaker 2>attention to what's arising in the mind and responding to it,

1:17:19.450 --> 1:17:26.030
<v Speaker 2>then the path is unlimited. You can just continue learning

1:17:26.070 --> 1:17:30.410
<v Speaker 2>and going deeper and deeper and deeper and it never stops.

1:17:31.390 --> 1:17:34.290
<v Speaker 2>And all you have to do is you have your

1:17:34.330 --> 1:17:38.300
<v Speaker 2>guru in your mind. They're in there right now. It's

1:17:38.610 --> 1:17:41.300
<v Speaker 2>just your own mind. But just all you have to

1:17:41.320 --> 1:17:44.720
<v Speaker 2>do is keep paying attention, keep noticing, keep noticing and

1:17:44.740 --> 1:17:45.980
<v Speaker 2>then responding with love.

1:17:49.700 --> 1:17:56.120
<v Speaker 1>That's really beautiful. Yeah, that is a gorgeous, gorgeous place

1:17:56.180 --> 1:18:00.940
<v Speaker 1>to be, everyone. Corey Allen, thank you so much for

1:18:00.979 --> 1:18:02.240
<v Speaker 1>joining us on the show today.

1:18:02.400 --> 1:18:03.540
<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much for having me.

1:18:04.120 --> 1:18:06.380
<v Speaker 1>I need you back every book, okay?

1:18:06.600 --> 1:18:07.740
<v Speaker 2>You got it, you got it.

1:18:07.780 --> 1:18:09.429
<v Speaker 1>We might need a collab on a podcast.

1:18:09.510 --> 1:18:10.160
<v Speaker 2>Of course.

1:18:11.110 --> 1:18:13.430
<v Speaker 1>Thank you. Everyone, we'll be back next week. Thank you

1:18:13.450 --> 1:18:16.910
<v Speaker 1>for listening. Share with a friend, rate and review. Namaste. Namaste.

1:18:24.160 --> 1:18:27.920
<v Speaker 1>The content presented on Deeply Well serves solely for educational

1:18:28.060 --> 1:18:31.760
<v Speaker 1>and informational purposes. It should not be considered a replacement

1:18:31.820 --> 1:18:35.920
<v Speaker 1>for personalized medical or mental health guidance and does not

1:18:36.000 --> 1:18:41.090
<v Speaker 1>constitute a provider-patient relationship. As always, it is advisable to

1:18:41.150 --> 1:18:44.849
<v Speaker 1>consult with your healthcare provider or health team for any

1:18:44.970 --> 1:18:49.690
<v Speaker 1>specific concerns or questions that you may have. Connect with

1:18:49.750 --> 1:18:53.500
<v Speaker 1>me on social at Debbie Brown. That's Twitter and Instagram.

1:18:53.780 --> 1:18:56.930
<v Speaker 1>Or you can go to my website, DebbieBrown.com. And if

1:18:56.939 --> 1:19:00.030
<v Speaker 1>you're listening to this show on Apple Podcasts, don't forget,

1:19:00.330 --> 1:19:04.330
<v Speaker 1>please rate, review and subscribe and send this episode to

1:19:04.390 --> 1:19:07.780
<v Speaker 1>a friend. Deeply Well is a production of iHeartRadio and

1:19:07.810 --> 1:19:12.269
<v Speaker 1>the Black Effect Network. It's produced by Jacquees Thomas, Samantha Timmons,

1:19:12.790 --> 1:19:16.170
<v Speaker 1>and me, Debbie Brown. The beautiful sound bath you heard?

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<v Speaker 1>That's by Gerilyn Glass from Crystal Cadence. For more podcasts

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