1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:07,318 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe Podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:14,558 --> 00:00:15,878 Speaker 2: Hey Daron, Welcome. 3 00:00:15,558 --> 00:00:18,678 Speaker 1: Back to the latest episode of the Book of Joe 4 00:00:18,798 --> 00:00:22,878 Speaker 1: Podcast with me, Tom Verducci and Joe Madden. And Joe, 5 00:00:22,918 --> 00:00:26,318 Speaker 1: this is going to be our Hall of Fame edition 6 00:00:26,518 --> 00:00:29,118 Speaker 1: of the Book of Joe Podcast. A lot to dive into, 7 00:00:29,238 --> 00:00:32,238 Speaker 1: but before we get there, you and I are both 8 00:00:32,598 --> 00:00:36,398 Speaker 1: fans of playing and watching golf, and I just wanted 9 00:00:36,558 --> 00:00:39,438 Speaker 1: to touch on the incredible achievement of a young man 10 00:00:39,558 --> 00:00:43,158 Speaker 1: named Nick Dunlap who won on the PGA Tour the 11 00:00:43,198 --> 00:00:46,518 Speaker 1: American Express event last week. He's a twenty year old 12 00:00:46,558 --> 00:00:50,078 Speaker 1: sophomore and amateur at the University of Alabama. He's the 13 00:00:50,158 --> 00:00:55,598 Speaker 1: first amateur to win a PGA Tour event in thirty 14 00:00:55,798 --> 00:00:59,758 Speaker 1: three years. Phil Mickelson was the last to do it. 15 00:01:00,398 --> 00:01:02,318 Speaker 1: And Joe, I want to get your take on this 16 00:01:02,478 --> 00:01:05,158 Speaker 1: because you have seen young men get to the major 17 00:01:05,238 --> 00:01:08,198 Speaker 1: leagues like a Hobby Baiez, who just have that it factor, 18 00:01:08,518 --> 00:01:11,558 Speaker 1: who look like they belong, like there's no break in period, 19 00:01:11,598 --> 00:01:14,558 Speaker 1: there's no awe. I'm watching this kid going up to 20 00:01:14,598 --> 00:01:17,718 Speaker 1: the eighteenth hole and he's playing with Sam Burns and 21 00:01:17,958 --> 00:01:21,958 Speaker 1: Justin Thomas two guys who have won on the PGA Tour, 22 00:01:21,998 --> 00:01:25,398 Speaker 1: who are veterans of the PGA Tour, and he owned 23 00:01:26,198 --> 00:01:26,758 Speaker 1: the place. 24 00:01:27,118 --> 00:01:28,838 Speaker 2: I mean, I was just incredible. 25 00:01:28,878 --> 00:01:32,318 Speaker 1: So for you, Joe, when you see guys at a 26 00:01:32,358 --> 00:01:37,158 Speaker 1: precocious age, you know, hold their own without experience, what 27 00:01:37,598 --> 00:01:42,318 Speaker 1: is it that allows people like that to succeed without experience? 28 00:01:43,278 --> 00:01:47,158 Speaker 3: Well, obviously self confidence, So where's that derived from? And 29 00:01:47,198 --> 00:01:50,598 Speaker 3: the fact that you know, I think naturally when you're 30 00:01:50,638 --> 00:01:53,518 Speaker 3: at that age, you do come with blinders attached. I mean, 31 00:01:53,518 --> 00:01:56,398 Speaker 3: you're not seeing the whole picture. You don't process everything, 32 00:01:56,398 --> 00:01:59,678 Speaker 3: which is a good thing. So there's a point where 33 00:01:59,678 --> 00:02:01,758 Speaker 3: you think maybe the youth should be a detriment, but 34 00:02:01,958 --> 00:02:04,558 Speaker 3: by the same time, it could be something positive. But 35 00:02:04,598 --> 00:02:06,798 Speaker 3: that's I think it's rare. I mean, but I still 36 00:02:06,798 --> 00:02:09,518 Speaker 3: think that that's a possibility, and I think that's part 37 00:02:09,518 --> 00:02:11,638 Speaker 3: of what you're seeing. My best example I can give 38 00:02:11,638 --> 00:02:13,438 Speaker 3: you of all that you talked about, Hobby whatever, But 39 00:02:14,238 --> 00:02:17,998 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty five, maybe eighty fortty five, Wally Joiner Wallace 40 00:02:18,078 --> 00:02:20,918 Speaker 3: Keith actually was a scout that drafted Wally into the 41 00:02:20,958 --> 00:02:24,878 Speaker 3: Angel organization. So we were pretty closely still are, and 42 00:02:24,958 --> 00:02:27,078 Speaker 3: I remember in spring training the one he walked up 43 00:02:27,118 --> 00:02:29,478 Speaker 3: to me. We're taking VP down at the cages and 44 00:02:29,518 --> 00:02:33,118 Speaker 3: he said, I'm going to take I'm going to take 45 00:02:33,118 --> 00:02:35,718 Speaker 3: Caru's spot dish. I'm going to sub plant Rodney. I'm 46 00:02:35,718 --> 00:02:37,198 Speaker 3: going to be the first basement. I said, no, you're not. 47 00:02:37,558 --> 00:02:39,118 Speaker 3: But I said, you know what, it's great that you 48 00:02:39,238 --> 00:02:42,838 Speaker 3: believe that, and that's wonderful and yes you will eventually, 49 00:02:42,878 --> 00:02:46,238 Speaker 3: but not yet. So there's that really taught me a lesson. There, 50 00:02:46,278 --> 00:02:50,318 Speaker 3: he who had, you know, Wally Byu out of Maria 51 00:02:50,478 --> 00:02:53,838 Speaker 3: to Georgia, a nice player, went down to the third round. 52 00:02:53,878 --> 00:02:56,278 Speaker 3: People were often because they thought his power was low 53 00:02:56,518 --> 00:02:59,558 Speaker 3: below but his glove and everything else were good. But 54 00:02:59,638 --> 00:03:02,438 Speaker 3: what they did measure with Wallace Keith was the self 55 00:03:02,478 --> 00:03:06,078 Speaker 3: confidence level is like, I didn't know it was that great. 56 00:03:06,358 --> 00:03:09,478 Speaker 3: Actually as a signing scut either, I can't admit to that. 57 00:03:09,558 --> 00:03:12,038 Speaker 3: But that was the big thing that propelled him. He's good, 58 00:03:12,078 --> 00:03:14,398 Speaker 3: He was really good. But man, he had this inner 59 00:03:14,478 --> 00:03:16,678 Speaker 3: thing about him that he was able to keep the 60 00:03:16,678 --> 00:03:18,838 Speaker 3: blinders on. He thought he was the best. He went 61 00:03:18,918 --> 00:03:21,238 Speaker 3: and played like he was the best, and he believed that. 62 00:03:21,318 --> 00:03:23,438 Speaker 3: He bill long there. That's the level three we talk 63 00:03:23,518 --> 00:03:26,438 Speaker 3: about five levels of being a professional. Level one happy 64 00:03:26,478 --> 00:03:28,878 Speaker 3: to be here at level two survival, I like to 65 00:03:28,958 --> 00:03:30,758 Speaker 3: I want to stay here, and you want to get 66 00:03:30,798 --> 00:03:33,078 Speaker 3: the guy to level three. I belonger. I can do 67 00:03:33,118 --> 00:03:36,078 Speaker 3: this as quickly as possible. When a guy like Dunlap 68 00:03:36,158 --> 00:03:39,718 Speaker 3: just jumps right into level three, Wallace Keith jumped right 69 00:03:39,758 --> 00:03:43,598 Speaker 3: into level three, there's guys that are like that, and 70 00:03:43,798 --> 00:03:48,198 Speaker 3: there's this strong sense of belief in themselves, and it's 71 00:03:48,238 --> 00:03:51,758 Speaker 3: just normally needs to be nurtured. And when it already 72 00:03:51,758 --> 00:03:53,958 Speaker 3: comes kind of like equipped with it, that he already 73 00:03:53,958 --> 00:03:56,598 Speaker 3: got that bells and that bell and whistle already attached 74 00:03:56,598 --> 00:03:59,758 Speaker 3: to him, that's pretty solid. So that's how I see 75 00:03:59,758 --> 00:04:03,718 Speaker 3: it's not normal. But then again I could see it 76 00:04:04,278 --> 00:04:07,158 Speaker 3: and my god, I mean, what he did is ridiculous. 77 00:04:07,198 --> 00:04:09,678 Speaker 3: I'm just I think there's going to be a resurgence 78 00:04:09,678 --> 00:04:13,718 Speaker 3: in Dunlap golf equipment after that. 79 00:04:13,718 --> 00:04:14,958 Speaker 2: That's a name from the past. 80 00:04:16,358 --> 00:04:20,438 Speaker 1: I'm glad you brought up sort of nurtured because for 81 00:04:20,478 --> 00:04:22,198 Speaker 1: the most part, I think with a lot of these guys, 82 00:04:22,358 --> 00:04:24,198 Speaker 1: it is nature, it's innate, and a lot of these 83 00:04:24,238 --> 00:04:26,918 Speaker 1: people who just are wired that way. But I believe 84 00:04:26,998 --> 00:04:28,918 Speaker 1: Joe that what we're saying with Nick Dunlap and what 85 00:04:28,918 --> 00:04:32,318 Speaker 1: we're seeing with some major league players now because there 86 00:04:32,318 --> 00:04:34,558 Speaker 1: were more players twenty three and under last year who 87 00:04:34,638 --> 00:04:37,078 Speaker 1: had twenty three home runs and ever before in the 88 00:04:37,158 --> 00:04:40,878 Speaker 1: history game. I do think the sort of nurture part 89 00:04:40,918 --> 00:04:45,238 Speaker 1: of it now is greater. In other words, and sort 90 00:04:45,238 --> 00:04:48,158 Speaker 1: of amateur baseball, social media, whatever you want to call it. 91 00:04:48,238 --> 00:04:51,238 Speaker 1: People now are playing under microscopes and under a lot 92 00:04:51,318 --> 00:04:54,038 Speaker 1: more attention as they come up through the ranks than 93 00:04:54,078 --> 00:04:57,398 Speaker 1: they did when you were on the mean streets of Hazelton, PA. Right, 94 00:04:57,478 --> 00:05:00,078 Speaker 1: you get exposed to a lot more, and I think 95 00:05:00,478 --> 00:05:03,918 Speaker 1: the idea of experience in the major leagues, well, it's wonderful. 96 00:05:04,398 --> 00:05:07,638 Speaker 1: I think the lack of it now is overrated when 97 00:05:07,678 --> 00:05:10,398 Speaker 1: it comes to a player's ability to get his feet 98 00:05:10,398 --> 00:05:12,238 Speaker 1: on the ground and to belong to the major leagues. 99 00:05:12,278 --> 00:05:16,078 Speaker 1: I just think the preparation to get there now exposes 100 00:05:16,158 --> 00:05:19,638 Speaker 1: these players to so much in terms of a high competition, 101 00:05:19,838 --> 00:05:26,158 Speaker 1: bright lights, three deck, stadium, critical media, you name it, expectations. 102 00:05:25,918 --> 00:05:28,518 Speaker 1: They're not babes in the woods anymore when they get 103 00:05:28,718 --> 00:05:30,198 Speaker 1: the big leagues of twenty twenty one. 104 00:05:30,478 --> 00:05:31,358 Speaker 2: What's your take on that? 105 00:05:31,998 --> 00:05:35,078 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean I've listened to interviews sometimes. Are these 106 00:05:35,078 --> 00:05:37,878 Speaker 3: really young guys doing interviews that's exactly what you're talking about, 107 00:05:37,958 --> 00:05:40,278 Speaker 3: And I say to myself, damn, I could have I 108 00:05:40,278 --> 00:05:42,798 Speaker 3: would never have been able to express myself as well 109 00:05:42,798 --> 00:05:45,638 Speaker 3: as that kid did at twenty two, twenty three, twenty four. 110 00:05:45,678 --> 00:05:48,678 Speaker 3: I think it is a product of the way media 111 00:05:48,718 --> 00:05:51,838 Speaker 3: is handled today, in social media in particular, where these 112 00:05:51,838 --> 00:05:56,798 Speaker 3: guys are constantly exposed to like being interviewed at earlier ages, 113 00:05:56,878 --> 00:05:59,918 Speaker 3: or they're constantly in front of the camera on a 114 00:05:59,958 --> 00:06:03,238 Speaker 3: cell phone even and they're performing in front of the 115 00:06:03,238 --> 00:06:06,798 Speaker 3: cell phone comfortably, they get to this particular level of 116 00:06:06,918 --> 00:06:09,358 Speaker 3: you know, actually it's a real camera, a real interviewer, 117 00:06:09,918 --> 00:06:12,998 Speaker 3: a real major league situation. It's not as daunting or 118 00:06:13,038 --> 00:06:15,598 Speaker 3: as intimidating as it once had been. I mean, growing 119 00:06:15,678 --> 00:06:18,198 Speaker 3: up with us, we didn't see the games all the time, 120 00:06:18,358 --> 00:06:20,438 Speaker 3: we didn't get the ballparks all the time. We didn't 121 00:06:20,438 --> 00:06:21,998 Speaker 3: know what a big league player look like all the 122 00:06:22,038 --> 00:06:25,118 Speaker 3: time except for occasionally maybe once a week on TV. 123 00:06:25,678 --> 00:06:28,398 Speaker 3: So there was more of a being in awe of 124 00:06:28,438 --> 00:06:33,398 Speaker 3: these people like they were otherworldly, they were superhuman. They 125 00:06:33,478 --> 00:06:36,078 Speaker 3: did not put their pants on one leg at a time, 126 00:06:36,118 --> 00:06:38,118 Speaker 3: we thought all that stuff. So when you came in 127 00:06:38,198 --> 00:06:41,078 Speaker 3: contact with them, my god was it was as larger 128 00:06:41,118 --> 00:06:43,558 Speaker 3: than life, way larger than life. I don't think that 129 00:06:43,638 --> 00:06:47,918 Speaker 3: happens anymore, based on the way media is presented today 130 00:06:47,958 --> 00:06:50,438 Speaker 3: and how ubiquitous it is, and how these kids can 131 00:06:50,478 --> 00:06:53,638 Speaker 3: get out there and actually rehearse in a way that 132 00:06:53,678 --> 00:06:56,558 Speaker 3: we never rehearsed in the past. From my perspective where 133 00:06:56,558 --> 00:06:58,758 Speaker 3: I grew up with my parents and my mom, especially 134 00:06:59,638 --> 00:07:01,198 Speaker 3: if you thought I was getting a little bit too 135 00:07:01,518 --> 00:07:04,678 Speaker 3: you know, big for my breches, you get put down 136 00:07:04,718 --> 00:07:07,678 Speaker 3: pretty quickly. And I'm not saying that I was necessarily, 137 00:07:07,678 --> 00:07:10,678 Speaker 3: but it was just a perception, and I don't think 138 00:07:10,678 --> 00:07:13,198 Speaker 3: that's the truth of the case anymore. The way, you know, 139 00:07:13,358 --> 00:07:16,358 Speaker 3: parents and travel teams and the way they're spending all 140 00:07:16,398 --> 00:07:18,158 Speaker 3: this money on their kids have promote them either to 141 00:07:18,198 --> 00:07:20,718 Speaker 3: be a professional player or at least get them in 142 00:07:20,758 --> 00:07:23,478 Speaker 3: a college. I mean, my god, my dad could never 143 00:07:23,718 --> 00:07:26,798 Speaker 3: have afforded that method for me back in the day, 144 00:07:27,198 --> 00:07:31,398 Speaker 3: to expose me to where it's higher level of ball, 145 00:07:31,518 --> 00:07:34,038 Speaker 3: travel teams, whatever you want to call. So they're just 146 00:07:34,158 --> 00:07:37,318 Speaker 3: they're being bred in a different way. Good batter indifferent. 147 00:07:37,358 --> 00:07:38,918 Speaker 3: I don't know, but I'm just saying I think all 148 00:07:38,958 --> 00:07:42,558 Speaker 3: of this preps them to be able to deal with 149 00:07:42,598 --> 00:07:44,598 Speaker 3: this as well as they're dealing with it at an 150 00:07:44,638 --> 00:07:45,518 Speaker 3: early age today. 151 00:07:45,958 --> 00:07:48,678 Speaker 1: And that brings us to the Hall of Fame voting 152 00:07:49,198 --> 00:07:52,398 Speaker 1: results that were announced this week and the path to 153 00:07:52,478 --> 00:07:55,758 Speaker 1: Cooperstown for the three people who did exceed the seventy 154 00:07:55,758 --> 00:07:58,358 Speaker 1: five percent threshold for induction to the Hall of Fame, 155 00:07:58,998 --> 00:08:03,838 Speaker 1: Adrian Beltray, Todd Hilton, Joe Mauer. I think about Adrian Beltray. Obviously, 156 00:08:03,918 --> 00:08:06,558 Speaker 1: he signed out of the Dominican Republic. His father was 157 00:08:06,558 --> 00:08:09,198 Speaker 1: a baseball player. He knew at an early age he 158 00:08:09,318 --> 00:08:11,398 Speaker 1: was going to be a baseball player. His one and 159 00:08:11,438 --> 00:08:14,078 Speaker 1: only love was baseball. Dedicated himself to that, and he 160 00:08:14,078 --> 00:08:15,998 Speaker 1: said he knew by the time he was about thirteen 161 00:08:16,078 --> 00:08:18,758 Speaker 1: years old he was going to make a living playing baseball. 162 00:08:19,358 --> 00:08:21,638 Speaker 1: And then there's Todd Helton and Joe Mauer, kind of 163 00:08:21,678 --> 00:08:24,158 Speaker 1: the old school Joe and that. You know, they were 164 00:08:24,238 --> 00:08:27,678 Speaker 1: three sport athletes. Joe Mauer was the number one rated 165 00:08:27,758 --> 00:08:31,958 Speaker 1: high school quarterback in Minnesota across the country, had a 166 00:08:31,998 --> 00:08:34,598 Speaker 1: scholarship offer to play for Bobby Bowden at Florida State, 167 00:08:35,198 --> 00:08:37,438 Speaker 1: was an All Metro point guard for the basketball team. 168 00:08:37,518 --> 00:08:39,798 Speaker 1: Of course, he was just All World as a catcher 169 00:08:39,838 --> 00:08:42,438 Speaker 1: for his high school team, and Todd Helton wound up 170 00:08:42,438 --> 00:08:43,678 Speaker 1: playing both sports at. 171 00:08:43,558 --> 00:08:44,678 Speaker 2: The University of Tennessee. 172 00:08:44,718 --> 00:08:47,718 Speaker 1: In fact, started a quarterback ahead of Peyton Manning, although 173 00:08:47,958 --> 00:08:51,478 Speaker 1: as Todd Helton said himself, there were days during football 174 00:08:51,518 --> 00:08:53,678 Speaker 1: practice where he'd leave early and go hit in the cage. 175 00:08:53,918 --> 00:08:57,358 Speaker 1: He knew his future was in baseball and not in football. 176 00:08:57,518 --> 00:09:00,278 Speaker 1: But one of those. Two of those guys have backgrounds 177 00:09:00,278 --> 00:09:02,398 Speaker 1: that we don't see a lot of the multi sport athlete. 178 00:09:02,478 --> 00:09:04,558 Speaker 1: First of all, Joe, your quick take in the class 179 00:09:04,598 --> 00:09:08,478 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty four, Adrian Beltray, Todd Hilton, Joe Mauer. 180 00:09:08,878 --> 00:09:12,318 Speaker 3: Oh deserving, obviously. I mean bel Tray beat us up 181 00:09:12,758 --> 00:09:14,598 Speaker 3: when he was with Texas with the Rays, he had 182 00:09:14,598 --> 00:09:16,678 Speaker 3: that three home run game and one of the playoff 183 00:09:16,718 --> 00:09:19,718 Speaker 3: games down at the trop His His career was kind 184 00:09:19,718 --> 00:09:21,358 Speaker 3: of unique in the sense that he got off to 185 00:09:22,398 --> 00:09:23,798 Speaker 3: kind of a really good start, then he kind of 186 00:09:23,838 --> 00:09:25,398 Speaker 3: like faded and you didn't know what was going to 187 00:09:25,478 --> 00:09:28,718 Speaker 3: happen with him, and then eventually he reappeared in blossomed 188 00:09:28,758 --> 00:09:33,438 Speaker 3: and became a force defensively as good as it gets. 189 00:09:33,798 --> 00:09:36,958 Speaker 3: He was so good and accurate with that strong arm, 190 00:09:36,998 --> 00:09:39,958 Speaker 3: with that that throw and stroke that he would kind 191 00:09:39,998 --> 00:09:43,478 Speaker 3: of demonstrate to show off offensively, hit the ball from 192 00:09:43,518 --> 00:09:45,758 Speaker 3: the right center field gap to the left center field 193 00:09:45,798 --> 00:09:49,638 Speaker 3: gap extremely well. Play with a lot of pinache and enthusiasm. 194 00:09:49,678 --> 00:09:52,238 Speaker 3: So yeah, that that's an easy makes sense to me. 195 00:09:52,878 --> 00:09:55,758 Speaker 3: Joe Mauer. I mean, I've read some different things Joe Mauer. 196 00:09:56,598 --> 00:09:58,798 Speaker 3: When he was at the top of his game, I 197 00:09:58,878 --> 00:10:00,838 Speaker 3: thought this guy was going to be like one of 198 00:10:00,838 --> 00:10:02,838 Speaker 3: the maybe the best catcher ever if he was able 199 00:10:02,838 --> 00:10:05,998 Speaker 3: to continue to play not get it hurt. He threw 200 00:10:06,118 --> 00:10:08,798 Speaker 3: really well at a great release, very accurate. It could 201 00:10:08,878 --> 00:10:11,278 Speaker 3: not really run against him. Had to be careful, a 202 00:10:11,398 --> 00:10:13,838 Speaker 3: very good behind the plate, blocking the ball everything in 203 00:10:13,958 --> 00:10:17,118 Speaker 3: his bat. I mean, the dude was such a tough 204 00:10:17,158 --> 00:10:19,638 Speaker 3: out lining the line kind of a hitter. He did 205 00:10:19,718 --> 00:10:21,198 Speaker 3: not want to see him in a big moment because 206 00:10:21,238 --> 00:10:22,918 Speaker 3: the ball was going to be moved and it was 207 00:10:22,918 --> 00:10:25,718 Speaker 3: going to be good at bat given. So I've always 208 00:10:25,718 --> 00:10:27,518 Speaker 3: been a big fan, but I don't even know that 209 00:10:27,558 --> 00:10:29,638 Speaker 3: he gets talked about enough as a catcher because it 210 00:10:29,758 --> 00:10:32,598 Speaker 3: was that good and Helton. I saw a little bit, 211 00:10:32,678 --> 00:10:34,758 Speaker 3: not a lot. But when I you know this guy, 212 00:10:34,798 --> 00:10:37,398 Speaker 3: I mean everybody's talking about, you know, hitting in Denver 213 00:10:37,438 --> 00:10:39,158 Speaker 3: as a post anywhere else. The guy could just hit. 214 00:10:39,958 --> 00:10:41,638 Speaker 3: I don't care where he would hit. He would hit. 215 00:10:41,998 --> 00:10:44,918 Speaker 3: He had a great approach at the plate. He's just 216 00:10:44,958 --> 00:10:48,398 Speaker 3: one of those quiet, kind of a baseball assassin kind 217 00:10:48,438 --> 00:10:52,918 Speaker 3: of dudes. It's like, very focused and directed and didn't 218 00:10:52,918 --> 00:10:56,438 Speaker 3: make mistakes. Probably the training of his quarterback days also 219 00:10:56,518 --> 00:11:00,918 Speaker 3: at Tennessee. But all three, yeah, three of the three 220 00:11:00,998 --> 00:11:04,598 Speaker 3: of those guys easily the best of the generation of 221 00:11:04,638 --> 00:11:08,918 Speaker 3: players that they grew up with. As an opponent, man, 222 00:11:08,998 --> 00:11:11,118 Speaker 3: you did not want to see any one of them 223 00:11:11,278 --> 00:11:13,238 Speaker 3: in a crucial moment because they're just they're just going 224 00:11:13,318 --> 00:11:15,198 Speaker 3: to put out a good at bat. And for me, 225 00:11:15,318 --> 00:11:18,238 Speaker 3: like I said, Mauer took away the running game. We 226 00:11:18,318 --> 00:11:20,318 Speaker 3: with the Rays, we could run and you had to 227 00:11:20,318 --> 00:11:22,078 Speaker 3: be very careful. You really had to work to get 228 00:11:22,078 --> 00:11:23,918 Speaker 3: a picture that was slow to play because this guy 229 00:11:24,398 --> 00:11:25,398 Speaker 3: was that good with his arm. 230 00:11:25,718 --> 00:11:28,278 Speaker 1: Well let's dive into them and start with Adrian Beltray. 231 00:11:28,318 --> 00:11:32,398 Speaker 1: He got ninety five percent of the vote. You know, listen, 232 00:11:32,598 --> 00:11:34,918 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter what percentage you get as long as 233 00:11:34,958 --> 00:11:36,958 Speaker 1: you get in. I get that, And I don't like 234 00:11:36,998 --> 00:11:39,718 Speaker 1: making a big deal out of you know, who didn't 235 00:11:39,798 --> 00:11:42,118 Speaker 1: vote for somebody. I don't know why you would not 236 00:11:42,198 --> 00:11:45,118 Speaker 1: vote for Adrian Beltray. I mean more than three thousand hits, 237 00:11:45,198 --> 00:11:47,878 Speaker 1: more than four hundred and seventy five home runs, more 238 00:11:47,918 --> 00:11:50,598 Speaker 1: than four goal gloves. He and Willie Mays are the 239 00:11:50,598 --> 00:11:54,438 Speaker 1: only two players in baseball history to hit those three thresholds. 240 00:11:54,718 --> 00:11:57,078 Speaker 2: So what does that mean. It doesn't mean he's Willy Mays. 241 00:11:57,118 --> 00:12:00,438 Speaker 1: It just means he was really good at many sides 242 00:12:00,438 --> 00:12:02,998 Speaker 1: of the game for a very long time. 243 00:12:03,078 --> 00:12:03,838 Speaker 2: That's a hall of fame. 244 00:12:05,358 --> 00:12:07,158 Speaker 1: And Joe, I want to get your take on this, 245 00:12:07,278 --> 00:12:09,478 Speaker 1: because when I watch guys play, I love to watch 246 00:12:09,558 --> 00:12:11,918 Speaker 1: great players, you know. And he did some things and 247 00:12:11,918 --> 00:12:14,198 Speaker 1: you alluded to this that others didn't the way that 248 00:12:14,238 --> 00:12:16,758 Speaker 1: he would had such a strong throwing arm. He could 249 00:12:16,758 --> 00:12:19,038 Speaker 1: throw flat footed and just zip the ball across the 250 00:12:19,078 --> 00:12:21,758 Speaker 1: dim and making it look easy. I thought the bare 251 00:12:21,798 --> 00:12:24,198 Speaker 1: hand play coming in from third base he made as 252 00:12:24,238 --> 00:12:26,958 Speaker 1: well as anybody. He did that very athletically, where he 253 00:12:27,198 --> 00:12:30,318 Speaker 1: would fall and throw sidearm and just throw a bullet 254 00:12:30,318 --> 00:12:32,358 Speaker 1: over the first base and of course that I call 255 00:12:32,398 --> 00:12:34,718 Speaker 1: it the wedding proposal. Where he would drop on one 256 00:12:34,798 --> 00:12:36,878 Speaker 1: knee to take a breaking ball. 257 00:12:37,198 --> 00:12:39,398 Speaker 2: It's his way of buying some time to keep his 258 00:12:39,438 --> 00:12:39,958 Speaker 2: hands back. 259 00:12:40,038 --> 00:12:41,918 Speaker 1: Just sink into your legs like a lot of guys do, 260 00:12:42,038 --> 00:12:43,598 Speaker 1: but he would sink all the way to the ground. 261 00:12:43,678 --> 00:12:46,198 Speaker 1: His black knee would hit the ground, keep his hands 262 00:12:46,198 --> 00:12:47,998 Speaker 1: back and take a ball out of the ballpark to 263 00:12:48,078 --> 00:12:49,558 Speaker 1: sit on those slow breaking balls. 264 00:12:49,598 --> 00:12:51,238 Speaker 2: Just amazing to watch this guy play. 265 00:12:51,278 --> 00:12:53,158 Speaker 1: But when I think about Beltray, I think of the 266 00:12:53,238 --> 00:12:54,598 Speaker 1: joy he had playing the game. 267 00:12:54,878 --> 00:12:56,598 Speaker 2: This dude had fun playing the game. 268 00:12:56,638 --> 00:12:58,758 Speaker 1: We all know how hard this game is and it 269 00:12:58,838 --> 00:13:02,158 Speaker 1: is a grind, and he brought such a joy that 270 00:13:02,278 --> 00:13:05,038 Speaker 1: you could see that fans could share his joy for 271 00:13:05,078 --> 00:13:07,558 Speaker 1: the game. And you see that the way he posted 272 00:13:07,598 --> 00:13:09,358 Speaker 1: all the time, this guy wanted to play. You look 273 00:13:09,358 --> 00:13:12,038 Speaker 1: at his games played year after year after year, kept 274 00:13:12,038 --> 00:13:14,438 Speaker 1: his body in good shape. You know, his defense was 275 00:13:14,478 --> 00:13:17,318 Speaker 1: still good towards the end of his career. So when 276 00:13:17,318 --> 00:13:21,158 Speaker 1: I see a guy having fun playing a very difficult game, man, 277 00:13:21,198 --> 00:13:22,998 Speaker 1: that just resonates with me. And I think a lot 278 00:13:23,078 --> 00:13:25,438 Speaker 1: of fans really tapped into that joy. 279 00:13:25,718 --> 00:13:29,518 Speaker 3: Agreed, And part of that is too. I've always felt 280 00:13:29,838 --> 00:13:33,438 Speaker 3: really great players do certain things indigenous to them. If 281 00:13:33,438 --> 00:13:35,998 Speaker 3: you talk about the play where he came in and 282 00:13:36,078 --> 00:13:40,438 Speaker 3: threw kind of falling away, that really just activated his wrist. 283 00:13:40,518 --> 00:13:42,198 Speaker 3: That's a drill I used to do with catchers and 284 00:13:42,198 --> 00:13:45,198 Speaker 3: only had them throw over the top. But his coming 285 00:13:45,238 --> 00:13:47,918 Speaker 3: in and then kind of like falling back was just 286 00:13:47,958 --> 00:13:51,718 Speaker 3: an activated his risk to the point where you saw 287 00:13:51,758 --> 00:13:57,678 Speaker 3: those wonderful, accurate throws to first base unique to him, 288 00:13:58,078 --> 00:14:01,758 Speaker 3: the genuineflection. Reggie Jackson would do that on occasion too, 289 00:14:01,798 --> 00:14:05,718 Speaker 3: but to intention do that as often as he did 290 00:14:06,078 --> 00:14:10,798 Speaker 3: again something unique to him. Stan Musual peekaboo stance as 291 00:14:10,838 --> 00:14:12,918 Speaker 3: an example, Ted Williams the way he hit his hands 292 00:14:12,958 --> 00:14:15,318 Speaker 3: behind him a little bit, Julio Franco with his hands 293 00:14:15,318 --> 00:14:17,718 Speaker 3: way above his head and brought him on. Daniel Streemsky, 294 00:14:18,238 --> 00:14:20,278 Speaker 3: a lot of great Bob Boone the way he sat. 295 00:14:20,398 --> 00:14:24,478 Speaker 3: A lot of really good players had a physical attribute 296 00:14:24,518 --> 00:14:27,278 Speaker 3: or a method of doing things that it'd be almost 297 00:14:27,318 --> 00:14:29,998 Speaker 3: impossible to teach to a young kid to do. They 298 00:14:30,038 --> 00:14:32,718 Speaker 3: did it themselves, which is speaks to their natural body 299 00:14:32,798 --> 00:14:35,878 Speaker 3: movements and their athleticism. And that's what he was all about. 300 00:14:35,918 --> 00:14:40,678 Speaker 3: And he did play with a lot of joy, Andras 301 00:14:40,758 --> 00:14:42,958 Speaker 3: and him would really play off one another between third 302 00:14:42,998 --> 00:14:46,558 Speaker 3: and shortstop, and I did. I've always appreciated that with him. 303 00:14:46,558 --> 00:14:48,398 Speaker 3: I'd always like joke with him a little bit from 304 00:14:48,438 --> 00:14:50,758 Speaker 3: the from the dugout he had, he had a ball, 305 00:14:50,838 --> 00:14:52,678 Speaker 3: he had a blast when he played. I'd like to 306 00:14:52,678 --> 00:14:56,318 Speaker 3: see more of that. This pure it's a joy, but 307 00:14:56,358 --> 00:14:59,718 Speaker 3: it's a respectful joy. The other side could actually enjoy 308 00:14:59,798 --> 00:15:02,918 Speaker 3: watching it too, because he is so good. He played 309 00:15:02,918 --> 00:15:05,518 Speaker 3: the game hard and with three he always ran hard too. Man, 310 00:15:06,518 --> 00:15:08,918 Speaker 3: It's just that I don't want to say the game 311 00:15:08,998 --> 00:15:10,918 Speaker 3: came easily to him, but the game came more easily 312 00:15:10,918 --> 00:15:11,798 Speaker 3: to him than most people. 313 00:15:12,398 --> 00:15:15,358 Speaker 1: We're going to get into Todd Hilton and Joe Mauer, 314 00:15:15,638 --> 00:15:18,358 Speaker 1: and there's a fourth Hall of Famer that we need 315 00:15:18,398 --> 00:15:21,878 Speaker 1: to talk about also will be inducted this summer. We 316 00:15:22,038 --> 00:15:35,838 Speaker 1: back with those thoughts right after this Welcome back to 317 00:15:35,878 --> 00:15:38,678 Speaker 1: the Book of Joe podcast. We're talking Hall of Fame 318 00:15:38,838 --> 00:15:41,278 Speaker 1: and Todd Helton will be in the class of twenty 319 00:15:41,318 --> 00:15:43,718 Speaker 1: twenty four and Joe I will admit his first year 320 00:15:43,758 --> 00:15:46,518 Speaker 1: of the ballot, I did not vote for him, as 321 00:15:46,558 --> 00:15:48,478 Speaker 1: did a lot of people apparently because he got less 322 00:15:48,478 --> 00:15:50,478 Speaker 1: than twenty percent of the vote first time on the ballot. 323 00:15:50,718 --> 00:15:52,798 Speaker 1: I really had a problem with his home road splits. 324 00:15:52,838 --> 00:15:55,358 Speaker 1: Playing in Colorado, of course, is a great place to hit, 325 00:15:55,918 --> 00:15:58,798 Speaker 1: and it was really really extreme when I looked at 326 00:15:58,838 --> 00:16:02,598 Speaker 1: his home road splits. But you know, I reconsidered it. 327 00:16:02,758 --> 00:16:04,878 Speaker 1: You know, when I looked at his career numbers. You know, 328 00:16:05,078 --> 00:16:07,998 Speaker 1: the career batting average well over three hundred ops, well 329 00:16:07,998 --> 00:16:08,958 Speaker 1: over nine hundred. 330 00:16:09,118 --> 00:16:10,238 Speaker 2: He played a long time. 331 00:16:10,398 --> 00:16:12,038 Speaker 1: He was sort of one of these repeaters, so we 332 00:16:12,078 --> 00:16:14,478 Speaker 1: can count on each year to get close to thirty 333 00:16:14,478 --> 00:16:17,558 Speaker 1: homers on hundred RBIs, if not more. And what really 334 00:16:17,598 --> 00:16:21,598 Speaker 1: suayed me Joe's I looked at something called adjusted ops, 335 00:16:21,678 --> 00:16:25,158 Speaker 1: So that's your on base plus slugging that's adjusted for 336 00:16:25,558 --> 00:16:28,518 Speaker 1: your ballpark and the era that you're playing in, the 337 00:16:28,558 --> 00:16:31,838 Speaker 1: offensive environment that you're playing in. And his was one 338 00:16:31,958 --> 00:16:35,038 Speaker 1: thirty three for his career. That's really high. One hundred 339 00:16:35,238 --> 00:16:37,838 Speaker 1: is level even that's your average player, So he's about 340 00:16:37,838 --> 00:16:39,758 Speaker 1: thirty three percent better than the average player. 341 00:16:40,478 --> 00:16:41,958 Speaker 2: And when I looked at it, for guys. 342 00:16:41,798 --> 00:16:44,878 Speaker 1: Who've got nine thousand played appearances, it's a long time 343 00:16:44,958 --> 00:16:46,478 Speaker 1: to be playing in the big leagues to have an 344 00:16:46,478 --> 00:16:50,198 Speaker 1: ops plus that high. He the highest ops plus of 345 00:16:50,318 --> 00:16:54,358 Speaker 1: anybody not in the Hall of Fame, not connected to peds. 346 00:16:55,278 --> 00:16:57,638 Speaker 1: And I said to myself, I'm trying to I'm really 347 00:16:57,678 --> 00:17:02,118 Speaker 1: overthinking this. This guy's a Hall of Famer measured against 348 00:17:02,198 --> 00:17:04,718 Speaker 1: a stat that does take into a count the Coors 349 00:17:04,758 --> 00:17:05,398 Speaker 1: Field effect. 350 00:17:06,438 --> 00:17:07,998 Speaker 2: So I've been checking his box. 351 00:17:07,998 --> 00:17:11,758 Speaker 1: I'm glad to see him get in career long, Rocky, 352 00:17:11,838 --> 00:17:14,558 Speaker 1: I think Larry Walker's induction helped pave the way for 353 00:17:14,678 --> 00:17:17,118 Speaker 1: Todd Hilton to get in as we start to understand 354 00:17:17,118 --> 00:17:22,118 Speaker 1: more about park ballpark effects, especially in Denver. But the 355 00:17:22,158 --> 00:17:24,158 Speaker 1: other thing that strikes me about Todd Hilton when you 356 00:17:24,198 --> 00:17:27,118 Speaker 1: get away from the numbers, Joe, is something I know, 357 00:17:27,198 --> 00:17:29,958 Speaker 1: you know the scouts called barrel awareness. 358 00:17:30,478 --> 00:17:31,318 Speaker 2: You know he's got. 359 00:17:31,398 --> 00:17:34,118 Speaker 1: He had a way of almost taking the ball out 360 00:17:34,118 --> 00:17:37,638 Speaker 1: of the catcher's gloves sometimes, but also digging the ball 361 00:17:37,918 --> 00:17:40,438 Speaker 1: out that was down in the zone and lifting it 362 00:17:40,478 --> 00:17:42,598 Speaker 1: out of the ballpark. I mean, he was able to 363 00:17:42,638 --> 00:17:45,518 Speaker 1: take pitches in so many different areas and do so 364 00:17:45,598 --> 00:17:48,838 Speaker 1: many different things with them. A great two strike hitter. Joe, 365 00:17:48,838 --> 00:17:52,038 Speaker 1: give me your take on what barrel awareness means to 366 00:17:52,118 --> 00:17:54,278 Speaker 1: you when it comes to a hitter like Todd Hilton. 367 00:17:54,638 --> 00:17:57,158 Speaker 3: Well, let me see if I could start with my 368 00:17:57,638 --> 00:18:01,198 Speaker 3: time in Midland, Texas, because Midland, Texas plays a lot 369 00:18:01,278 --> 00:18:05,358 Speaker 3: like Denver plays. When you're at home in Midland, you 370 00:18:05,398 --> 00:18:07,678 Speaker 3: have going kind of swing, one kind of a mental attitude. 371 00:18:08,078 --> 00:18:11,398 Speaker 3: And then say you go to let's just say San Antonio, 372 00:18:11,718 --> 00:18:15,278 Speaker 3: or you go to Little Rock, Arkansas, or Jackson, Mississippi, 373 00:18:16,158 --> 00:18:18,558 Speaker 3: where it's a total different reaction of the ball off 374 00:18:18,598 --> 00:18:22,398 Speaker 3: the bat and just the weather environment, etc. So we 375 00:18:22,598 --> 00:18:25,078 Speaker 3: play at home, and I think naturally the hitters were 376 00:18:25,078 --> 00:18:29,998 Speaker 3: more assertive, aggressive, confident, and there was more obvious lift 377 00:18:30,038 --> 00:18:32,198 Speaker 3: in our swings. We go on the road, they take 378 00:18:32,198 --> 00:18:34,838 Speaker 3: that same approach, and we stunk in Jackson or Little 379 00:18:34,918 --> 00:18:37,998 Speaker 3: Rock whatever, because first of all, mentally it was different, 380 00:18:37,998 --> 00:18:40,278 Speaker 3: and second of all physically it was too. So I 381 00:18:40,318 --> 00:18:43,038 Speaker 3: finally wised up. And what I did was, like a 382 00:18:43,078 --> 00:18:45,478 Speaker 3: couple three or four days before we went on the 383 00:18:45,558 --> 00:18:48,758 Speaker 3: road to one of those cities, batting practices all line 384 00:18:48,838 --> 00:18:51,638 Speaker 3: drive and hard ground ball VP. That's what in Midland 385 00:18:51,638 --> 00:18:53,398 Speaker 3: before we went on the road to these other places. 386 00:18:53,878 --> 00:18:55,798 Speaker 3: I think what I'm trying to say here is that 387 00:18:55,838 --> 00:18:58,878 Speaker 3: I would bet that he made some adjustments as he 388 00:18:58,998 --> 00:19:01,838 Speaker 3: because he's pretty smart, as he figured this out playing 389 00:19:01,958 --> 00:19:03,358 Speaker 3: in Denver. Then all of a sudden, I go on 390 00:19:03,358 --> 00:19:05,638 Speaker 3: the road. That's good, what's going on, what's different here, 391 00:19:05,998 --> 00:19:08,318 Speaker 3: and probably made some adjustments that permitted him to be 392 00:19:08,438 --> 00:19:11,158 Speaker 3: a little bit more successful on the road. Because man, 393 00:19:11,158 --> 00:19:13,798 Speaker 3: when you play in those ballparks hell I played in Boulder, 394 00:19:13,918 --> 00:19:16,478 Speaker 3: I was actually a power hittering Boulder that one summer 395 00:19:16,518 --> 00:19:19,358 Speaker 3: I played there in seventy five. It's so different. The 396 00:19:19,438 --> 00:19:22,118 Speaker 3: ball flies, there's no question it does. But more than anything, 397 00:19:22,358 --> 00:19:24,318 Speaker 3: that's what you're thinking and how you feel. You feel 398 00:19:24,358 --> 00:19:27,798 Speaker 3: pretty darn good. And then barrel awareness. You know, that's 399 00:19:27,798 --> 00:19:30,278 Speaker 3: the thing where today's game is played in a way 400 00:19:30,358 --> 00:19:33,798 Speaker 3: that that's not as important or seems to not be 401 00:19:33,838 --> 00:19:36,798 Speaker 3: as important, because when you're just talking about the three 402 00:19:36,838 --> 00:19:40,358 Speaker 3: true outcomes, barrel awareness is not part of that. With that. 403 00:19:40,598 --> 00:19:42,958 Speaker 3: In today's game, it's just about, you know, trying to 404 00:19:42,998 --> 00:19:45,038 Speaker 3: find a pitch that you kind of like and just 405 00:19:45,118 --> 00:19:47,638 Speaker 3: go ahead, let it go, let's swing it. We're going 406 00:19:47,678 --> 00:19:49,758 Speaker 3: for the walls, we're going for the fences. If we 407 00:19:49,758 --> 00:19:52,238 Speaker 3: strike out, it's okay. I just want you to have 408 00:19:52,318 --> 00:19:53,838 Speaker 3: like your strikes on an order so that you will 409 00:19:53,878 --> 00:19:56,438 Speaker 3: accept the walk if it presents itself. A real kind 410 00:19:56,438 --> 00:19:58,038 Speaker 3: of a barrel awareness to me, is a guy that's 411 00:19:58,078 --> 00:20:01,598 Speaker 3: making adjustments constantly. He knows where the barrel is, and 412 00:20:01,638 --> 00:20:03,438 Speaker 3: he knows he knows how to utilize his hands where 413 00:20:03,438 --> 00:20:05,838 Speaker 3: he keeps the barrel above his hands as he breaks 414 00:20:05,838 --> 00:20:08,358 Speaker 3: the ball to the bat, even on a low pitches, 415 00:20:08,438 --> 00:20:10,398 Speaker 3: he's going to keep the barrel above until he gets done, 416 00:20:10,478 --> 00:20:12,238 Speaker 3: and then there's going to come that where he's going 417 00:20:12,278 --> 00:20:14,438 Speaker 3: to want to try to lift the baseball. So I 418 00:20:14,478 --> 00:20:16,678 Speaker 3: think it's a product of the time that he played it. 419 00:20:16,918 --> 00:20:19,398 Speaker 3: I think there was a lot more, many more guys 420 00:20:19,438 --> 00:20:22,638 Speaker 3: that had more barrel awareness then there are. Of course, 421 00:20:22,638 --> 00:20:24,718 Speaker 3: there are guys like that now. I think as we 422 00:20:24,758 --> 00:20:28,958 Speaker 3: move this further along and if strikeouts become less acceptable 423 00:20:28,958 --> 00:20:30,798 Speaker 3: than they were maybe two or three five years ago, 424 00:20:31,158 --> 00:20:32,918 Speaker 3: you see more guys that you can say have great 425 00:20:32,918 --> 00:20:36,158 Speaker 3: barrel awareness, choking up, looking away, moving the ball to 426 00:20:36,198 --> 00:20:39,118 Speaker 3: the opposite field, really literally letting him trying to take 427 00:20:39,118 --> 00:20:40,878 Speaker 3: the ball out of the catcher's mid The farther the 428 00:20:40,878 --> 00:20:43,318 Speaker 3: balls away from your body, the deeper you let it 429 00:20:43,358 --> 00:20:45,478 Speaker 3: get in order to make contact. The closer the balls 430 00:20:45,478 --> 00:20:47,518 Speaker 3: to your body, the longer the swing is because you've 431 00:20:47,518 --> 00:20:49,918 Speaker 3: got to catch the ball farther out front. This is 432 00:20:49,958 --> 00:20:52,598 Speaker 3: the kind of things that hitters practice that really are 433 00:20:52,718 --> 00:20:56,438 Speaker 3: into awareness with with where the barrel is. And when 434 00:20:56,478 --> 00:20:58,678 Speaker 3: you get guys like that, and it's fun. I don't 435 00:20:58,758 --> 00:21:01,318 Speaker 3: like bow balls with less than two strikes on pitches 436 00:21:01,318 --> 00:21:03,838 Speaker 3: that you like, but I've always said bow balls with 437 00:21:03,958 --> 00:21:06,318 Speaker 3: two strikes are a good thing because you're frustrating a 438 00:21:06,318 --> 00:21:08,158 Speaker 3: pitcher a lot of times on the pitch that he makes. 439 00:21:08,478 --> 00:21:10,878 Speaker 3: That's a good pitch, and if you have a good barrel, awarness, 440 00:21:10,878 --> 00:21:14,038 Speaker 3: if you can just flick that thing. Orlando pal merrill outstanding, 441 00:21:14,638 --> 00:21:17,838 Speaker 3: taking a pitcher's two strike pitch, moving it, getting it 442 00:21:17,878 --> 00:21:19,638 Speaker 3: over our dugout and all of a sudden guess to 443 00:21:19,638 --> 00:21:21,958 Speaker 3: the next pitch and does something. Well, this is the 444 00:21:22,038 --> 00:21:24,478 Speaker 3: kind of thinking that these guys go through, and that's 445 00:21:24,478 --> 00:21:26,918 Speaker 3: why he was such a great hitter. I'm I don't 446 00:21:26,958 --> 00:21:28,758 Speaker 3: know for sure if he thought in those ways, but 447 00:21:28,838 --> 00:21:31,518 Speaker 3: I bet some of that was part of his thought process. 448 00:21:31,558 --> 00:21:34,878 Speaker 3: And I love hitters like that. They cause the other 449 00:21:34,918 --> 00:21:38,398 Speaker 3: team pitcher to throw more pitches. Your guys see more 450 00:21:38,478 --> 00:21:41,478 Speaker 3: stuff confidence comes back to your side, and that's where 451 00:21:41,478 --> 00:21:43,918 Speaker 3: you move the conga line from one through nine and 452 00:21:43,958 --> 00:21:46,478 Speaker 3: you play team offense and that's a lot of fun. 453 00:21:46,678 --> 00:21:49,478 Speaker 2: Yeah, that reminds me of today's game of Freddy Freeman. 454 00:21:49,838 --> 00:21:51,038 Speaker 2: Freddy is the king. 455 00:21:51,038 --> 00:21:53,678 Speaker 1: Of foul balls in today's game, and that really is 456 00:21:53,758 --> 00:21:56,838 Speaker 1: part of what makes him so good. And just to 457 00:21:56,918 --> 00:22:00,198 Speaker 1: double up on your take on Corsfield, you're dead on 458 00:22:00,198 --> 00:22:02,718 Speaker 1: on that it is a great place to hit, and 459 00:22:02,758 --> 00:22:05,358 Speaker 1: not so much because the ball travels far. It's because 460 00:22:05,398 --> 00:22:08,798 Speaker 1: the outfield is way too big. I mean, you just 461 00:22:09,198 --> 00:22:11,318 Speaker 1: dive balls into the outfield. There's just too much grass 462 00:22:11,318 --> 00:22:14,038 Speaker 1: to defend out there, that's right. I don't like watching 463 00:22:14,078 --> 00:22:16,278 Speaker 1: games there for that reason. Nobody gets thrown out at 464 00:22:16,278 --> 00:22:19,438 Speaker 1: home plate on a single. Everybody goes from first to third. 465 00:22:20,278 --> 00:22:22,638 Speaker 1: I remember Jim Leland saying, you know, they built a 466 00:22:22,678 --> 00:22:25,678 Speaker 1: park all wrong. They should have built another version of 467 00:22:25,678 --> 00:22:29,078 Speaker 1: Fenway Park, built really high walls because there's too much 468 00:22:29,118 --> 00:22:32,198 Speaker 1: ground to defend. And I remember Don Zimmer saying advice 469 00:22:32,318 --> 00:22:34,758 Speaker 1: to managers when they go to manage there, don't start 470 00:22:34,798 --> 00:22:37,358 Speaker 1: managing until like the fifth or sixth innings, right, because 471 00:22:37,358 --> 00:22:39,918 Speaker 1: somebody's going to give up a crooked number early in 472 00:22:39,918 --> 00:22:41,958 Speaker 1: the game. But you can't go into your bullpen that 473 00:22:42,038 --> 00:22:44,758 Speaker 1: early every single day if you're even as a visiting 474 00:22:44,758 --> 00:22:46,078 Speaker 1: team with a three game series. 475 00:22:46,118 --> 00:22:48,278 Speaker 2: So weird place to play. 476 00:22:48,438 --> 00:22:52,158 Speaker 1: But your point about the constant adjustment is dead on, 477 00:22:52,278 --> 00:22:54,358 Speaker 1: and I've talked to guys about this. You know, as 478 00:22:54,398 --> 00:22:58,038 Speaker 1: a hitter, you see obviously the ball's not breaking as 479 00:22:58,158 --> 00:23:01,278 Speaker 1: much in Denver, so when you go on the road now, 480 00:23:01,318 --> 00:23:03,598 Speaker 1: the same breaking balls are spinning more. 481 00:23:03,998 --> 00:23:07,358 Speaker 2: You have to recalibrate where your radar. 482 00:23:07,158 --> 00:23:09,398 Speaker 1: System is detecting where that ball is ending up in 483 00:23:09,398 --> 00:23:12,798 Speaker 1: the hitting zone. And think about going through that back 484 00:23:12,838 --> 00:23:15,438 Speaker 1: and forth every other week in the course of a 485 00:23:15,518 --> 00:23:16,838 Speaker 1: season over six months. 486 00:23:16,918 --> 00:23:17,558 Speaker 2: That's tough. 487 00:23:18,118 --> 00:23:20,958 Speaker 1: Final thought on that, I remember Tom Glavin telling me 488 00:23:21,038 --> 00:23:23,878 Speaker 1: that he was more sore after pitching a game at 489 00:23:23,918 --> 00:23:27,838 Speaker 1: Corsfield than anywhere else because he felt like he had 490 00:23:27,878 --> 00:23:31,078 Speaker 1: to strain so hard to finish his pitches. 491 00:23:31,158 --> 00:23:31,478 Speaker 2: There. 492 00:23:31,678 --> 00:23:34,398 Speaker 1: It's hard to grip the baseball, hard to get it 493 00:23:34,438 --> 00:23:36,718 Speaker 1: to move the way he wanted to move. So that 494 00:23:36,918 --> 00:23:40,718 Speaker 1: extra effort on every pitch is physically taxing, to say 495 00:23:40,798 --> 00:23:44,758 Speaker 1: nothing of you your mile high and the oxygen depletion 496 00:23:44,958 --> 00:23:48,118 Speaker 1: does have an effect when you're playing there, So kudos 497 00:23:48,158 --> 00:23:51,998 Speaker 1: to Todd Hilton. Great place to hit, Yes, but there 498 00:23:52,038 --> 00:23:53,438 Speaker 1: are some downsides as well. 499 00:23:53,838 --> 00:23:56,078 Speaker 3: Yeah, all of that. And it's funny you should mention 500 00:23:56,198 --> 00:23:59,958 Speaker 3: that anytime you throw a baseball or a football whatever, 501 00:24:00,678 --> 00:24:03,078 Speaker 3: you're going to throw the ball the best when you 502 00:24:03,078 --> 00:24:05,918 Speaker 3: feel like you're not doing anything at all but you're 503 00:24:05,918 --> 00:24:08,278 Speaker 3: still getting it's almost like, you know, hitting a golf ball, Well, 504 00:24:08,558 --> 00:24:11,478 Speaker 3: it's just a nice, easy, rhythmic tempo swing and golf 505 00:24:11,678 --> 00:24:13,958 Speaker 3: it's the same thing with an armstroke in baseball or 506 00:24:13,998 --> 00:24:16,638 Speaker 3: in football. You get this tempo about the way you're 507 00:24:16,678 --> 00:24:19,158 Speaker 3: throwing the ball and everything just happens at the right time, 508 00:24:19,198 --> 00:24:22,278 Speaker 3: and the risk releases and the ball snapsids you filed 509 00:24:22,318 --> 00:24:25,038 Speaker 3: off your fingertips as you're releasing the ball, and poom, 510 00:24:25,038 --> 00:24:27,318 Speaker 3: there you got your spiral, or there you got really 511 00:24:27,438 --> 00:24:30,158 Speaker 3: nice back spinning four seam fastball or two see whatever 512 00:24:30,158 --> 00:24:32,558 Speaker 3: you want to do. So, yeah, when you feel like 513 00:24:32,598 --> 00:24:36,038 Speaker 3: you have to ply more effort. Joe Coleman great advice, 514 00:24:36,598 --> 00:24:38,758 Speaker 3: and as a bullpen coach, I used to utilize it 515 00:24:39,118 --> 00:24:41,238 Speaker 3: when I watch the guys out there bumping and grinding 516 00:24:41,678 --> 00:24:44,918 Speaker 3: to try to do whatever and ipulate his breaking ball, 517 00:24:44,958 --> 00:24:48,198 Speaker 3: get more on his fastball. The line is, don't try 518 00:24:48,198 --> 00:24:53,358 Speaker 3: to manufacture velocity. The moment you start attempting to manufacture velocity, 519 00:24:53,438 --> 00:24:55,558 Speaker 3: it's going to go the wrong way. You're not going 520 00:24:55,638 --> 00:24:58,198 Speaker 3: to do it ab and then you have a chance 521 00:24:58,238 --> 00:25:00,758 Speaker 3: to hurt yourself because you're doing things differently and the 522 00:25:00,798 --> 00:25:05,918 Speaker 3: way that stroke is performed. So for anybody listening, any kids, whatever, Yeah, 523 00:25:05,958 --> 00:25:08,278 Speaker 3: you got to get to that point where when your 524 00:25:08,318 --> 00:25:10,958 Speaker 3: stroke is good, when you're when you're when you're timing good. 525 00:25:10,958 --> 00:25:13,238 Speaker 3: Your temple was good with release right down to the 526 00:25:13,238 --> 00:25:15,878 Speaker 3: point where you actually get like really heavy callouses on 527 00:25:15,878 --> 00:25:18,318 Speaker 3: my fingertips. But it threw so much VP, and I 528 00:25:18,358 --> 00:25:21,198 Speaker 3: knew when my stroke was right, and it was was effortless, 529 00:25:21,198 --> 00:25:23,238 Speaker 3: and you could throw like a half hour forty five 530 00:25:23,318 --> 00:25:26,598 Speaker 3: minutes even more than that every day for months at 531 00:25:26,638 --> 00:25:29,118 Speaker 3: a time. It's because the rhythm was so good, the 532 00:25:29,158 --> 00:25:32,118 Speaker 3: temple was so good. There wasn't that screen at the end. 533 00:25:32,478 --> 00:25:35,038 Speaker 3: And so I understand completely what he was talking about. 534 00:25:35,438 --> 00:25:37,038 Speaker 3: And even for that matter, like I said, the same 535 00:25:37,038 --> 00:25:39,558 Speaker 3: thing with swinging swinging a bat or a golf club. 536 00:25:39,758 --> 00:25:42,438 Speaker 3: When you get that good temple, working man, everything happens 537 00:25:42,438 --> 00:25:44,678 Speaker 3: at the right moment, and that's where you get your 538 00:25:44,678 --> 00:25:45,638 Speaker 3: maximum ability. 539 00:25:46,238 --> 00:25:47,398 Speaker 2: And then there's Joe Mauer. 540 00:25:47,478 --> 00:25:49,718 Speaker 1: You talk about hitting the ball out of the catcher's glove. 541 00:25:50,798 --> 00:25:53,798 Speaker 1: Joe Maher was one of the most balanced hitters I've 542 00:25:53,798 --> 00:25:56,878 Speaker 1: ever seen, Joe. And you know, I remember doing a 543 00:25:56,918 --> 00:26:00,998 Speaker 1: cover story with Joe years ago for SI, and you know, 544 00:26:01,038 --> 00:26:03,918 Speaker 1: he talked a lot about this contraption that his dad built, 545 00:26:04,238 --> 00:26:07,198 Speaker 1: the Mauer Quick Swing, where you drop the ball in 546 00:26:07,238 --> 00:26:10,118 Speaker 1: this little shoot. It would roll down sideways and make 547 00:26:10,158 --> 00:26:12,398 Speaker 1: a turn and then drop almost like the ball was 548 00:26:12,398 --> 00:26:16,198 Speaker 1: coming out of the sky, and then you would hit it. 549 00:26:16,198 --> 00:26:18,358 Speaker 1: It's like the reverse of hitting off a tee. The 550 00:26:18,358 --> 00:26:20,518 Speaker 1: ball is actually coming down, but you're not sure when 551 00:26:20,558 --> 00:26:23,918 Speaker 1: it's coming out. So you literally have to be super 552 00:26:23,998 --> 00:26:27,598 Speaker 1: quick to catch this ball cleanly as it's dropping out 553 00:26:27,598 --> 00:26:31,038 Speaker 1: of this shoot. And it's something that you know, Joe did. 554 00:26:31,318 --> 00:26:33,238 Speaker 1: I don't know how young, I wanted to say, six 555 00:26:33,318 --> 00:26:37,118 Speaker 1: or seven, certainly starting out playing baseball, and when I 556 00:26:37,158 --> 00:26:39,398 Speaker 1: looked at his stroke, Joe, I mean, I'm glad you 557 00:26:39,398 --> 00:26:42,798 Speaker 1: said something earlier about guys do something very unique. The 558 00:26:42,798 --> 00:26:45,918 Speaker 1: greats of the game, whether it's Beltray, the wedding proposal 559 00:26:45,958 --> 00:26:48,678 Speaker 1: swing or stam usual looking around the corner in his 560 00:26:48,758 --> 00:26:52,398 Speaker 1: batting stance, and for me, it's Maur's swing. It's as 561 00:26:52,438 --> 00:26:57,438 Speaker 1: connected of a swing as I've ever seen. I looked 562 00:26:57,438 --> 00:26:59,558 Speaker 1: the other day Joe when he won the MVP in 563 00:26:59,598 --> 00:27:01,078 Speaker 1: twenty two thousand and nine. 564 00:27:01,718 --> 00:27:02,718 Speaker 2: I looked at the outs. 565 00:27:02,758 --> 00:27:05,798 Speaker 1: He made his spray show of his outs, and almost 566 00:27:05,958 --> 00:27:09,398 Speaker 1: nothing is in the right field corner. And he actually 567 00:27:09,478 --> 00:27:12,158 Speaker 1: an entire year, more than six hundred played appearances flight 568 00:27:12,158 --> 00:27:14,558 Speaker 1: out to right field. I think it was twice the 569 00:27:14,718 --> 00:27:19,518 Speaker 1: entire season. You could not get Joe Mauer out front 570 00:27:19,598 --> 00:27:24,718 Speaker 1: of anything. Always on balance. And one quick story, Max 571 00:27:24,758 --> 00:27:27,878 Speaker 1: Schurzer and Joe Maher matched up a lot, both in 572 00:27:27,918 --> 00:27:30,438 Speaker 1: the al central Shures are in those days with the Tigers, 573 00:27:31,038 --> 00:27:33,758 Speaker 1: and Joe Mauer would own him. He would take change 574 00:27:33,798 --> 00:27:36,638 Speaker 1: ups away, slapping the left field. He would take fastballs 575 00:27:36,678 --> 00:27:40,038 Speaker 1: in and line drives up the middle. After years of 576 00:27:40,118 --> 00:27:43,518 Speaker 1: this going on, Max Schurzer said, you know what, I 577 00:27:43,678 --> 00:27:46,198 Speaker 1: need to invent something to get Joe Mauer out. He's 578 00:27:46,238 --> 00:27:49,798 Speaker 1: hitting everything that I throw. So Max Schures Are invented 579 00:27:49,878 --> 00:27:54,038 Speaker 1: the cut fastball he has today specifically to try to 580 00:27:54,078 --> 00:27:56,438 Speaker 1: get Joe Mauer out and the first time he threw it, 581 00:27:56,478 --> 00:27:58,558 Speaker 1: he got Mauer to swing a miss and strike out 582 00:27:58,638 --> 00:28:01,358 Speaker 1: for the first time he'd ever face them. And I 583 00:28:01,358 --> 00:28:05,198 Speaker 1: think about that story because Joe Mauer was that he 584 00:28:05,238 --> 00:28:07,918 Speaker 1: would make someone as good as Max Scherzer say, I 585 00:28:08,078 --> 00:28:10,838 Speaker 1: need to find another pitch. I need to invent another 586 00:28:10,878 --> 00:28:12,358 Speaker 1: pitch to get this dark guy out. 587 00:28:12,918 --> 00:28:15,158 Speaker 3: Jeter, he's the opposite of Derek Jeter. I mean, Jeter 588 00:28:15,238 --> 00:28:16,918 Speaker 3: was the same way from the right side. I mean, 589 00:28:17,438 --> 00:28:19,958 Speaker 3: everybody knew Derek was gonna hit the ball from left 590 00:28:19,998 --> 00:28:22,798 Speaker 3: center to the right field line all the time. Rare 591 00:28:23,078 --> 00:28:24,878 Speaker 3: if ever did he hit the ball down in the 592 00:28:24,958 --> 00:28:27,478 Speaker 3: left field corner. You knew it. And the same thing 593 00:28:27,478 --> 00:28:30,638 Speaker 3: with mau Or, you knew was going to be inside, inside, inside, 594 00:28:30,638 --> 00:28:33,078 Speaker 3: Which when guys are like that, like you're talking about, 595 00:28:33,318 --> 00:28:35,398 Speaker 3: they're gonna take the ball right out of the catcher's glove. 596 00:28:35,438 --> 00:28:37,198 Speaker 3: They're going to wait as long as they possibly can. 597 00:28:37,558 --> 00:28:40,558 Speaker 3: They're not going to commit too soon. They're gonna look 598 00:28:40,598 --> 00:28:42,718 Speaker 3: like they're gonna be late, but I promise you they're 599 00:28:42,718 --> 00:28:44,958 Speaker 3: gonna keep making adjustments as the evat goes on. So 600 00:28:45,398 --> 00:28:48,238 Speaker 3: they were like oppos I mean Jeter from the right side, 601 00:28:48,358 --> 00:28:51,158 Speaker 3: mauor from the left side. They're really tough and it's 602 00:28:51,198 --> 00:28:53,358 Speaker 3: hard to get a hit or disciplined enough to really 603 00:28:53,438 --> 00:28:56,358 Speaker 3: want to adopt that kind of approach. But also when 604 00:28:56,358 --> 00:28:58,518 Speaker 3: it comes down to the way hitting is todd of course, 605 00:28:59,438 --> 00:29:01,038 Speaker 3: there's a lot of guys that just wanted you to 606 00:29:01,078 --> 00:29:03,838 Speaker 3: pull the ball too in this to realize your mac 607 00:29:04,078 --> 00:29:06,518 Speaker 3: in power potential. So it's like, what do you want? 608 00:29:06,638 --> 00:29:08,198 Speaker 3: What do you want from this guy? What's he going 609 00:29:08,198 --> 00:29:09,878 Speaker 3: to bring to bears? He's just going to be pure power. 610 00:29:09,878 --> 00:29:10,918 Speaker 3: I want to get the ball up in the air. 611 00:29:10,918 --> 00:29:12,558 Speaker 3: I want to pull it as much. Or is this 612 00:29:12,598 --> 00:29:15,198 Speaker 3: guy just a good hitter that we're going to sacrifice 613 00:29:15,238 --> 00:29:18,118 Speaker 3: some power to really benefit from all the different things 614 00:29:18,118 --> 00:29:19,918 Speaker 3: that he can do. Manipulating the head of the bat, 615 00:29:20,198 --> 00:29:22,758 Speaker 3: letting the ball traveling more deeply, you utilize in the 616 00:29:22,758 --> 00:29:25,158 Speaker 3: whole field. And that's that's what these guys did. So 617 00:29:25,158 --> 00:29:26,718 Speaker 3: when you go to a spring training, you got your 618 00:29:26,758 --> 00:29:29,158 Speaker 3: group kids coming up here as a scout, what is 619 00:29:29,198 --> 00:29:32,078 Speaker 3: this guy? What is this guy? Tim Salmon? Tim Salmon 620 00:29:32,158 --> 00:29:35,558 Speaker 3: outstanding at driving the right center field gap when I 621 00:29:35,598 --> 00:29:38,638 Speaker 3: had him young and still I kept it. But although 622 00:29:38,678 --> 00:29:40,878 Speaker 3: he learned to pull the ball, Damian easily, same thing, 623 00:29:41,358 --> 00:29:44,118 Speaker 3: Garrett Anderson, left center field gap, Jimmy and It's left 624 00:29:44,118 --> 00:29:46,918 Speaker 3: center field gap. These are the kind of things I've 625 00:29:46,918 --> 00:29:50,558 Speaker 3: always looked at and quite frankly, for me, a young hitter, 626 00:29:51,078 --> 00:29:53,718 Speaker 3: if you could draft a young hitter that you really 627 00:29:53,718 --> 00:29:57,318 Speaker 3: dig on that drives the oppo gap first, because I 628 00:29:57,358 --> 00:29:59,358 Speaker 3: think it's much easier to teach a guy to pull 629 00:29:59,398 --> 00:30:01,478 Speaker 3: the ball as opposed to trying to teach him to 630 00:30:01,478 --> 00:30:04,238 Speaker 3: really drive the opposite field gap. When you see those 631 00:30:04,358 --> 00:30:07,598 Speaker 3: guys young, those guys could be very attractive with good hitters. 632 00:30:07,918 --> 00:30:09,678 Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes me think of Don Mattingly. 633 00:30:09,798 --> 00:30:11,678 Speaker 1: He was that way, and he actually went to winter 634 00:30:11,718 --> 00:30:13,678 Speaker 1: ball in Puerto Rico and started to learn how to 635 00:30:13,678 --> 00:30:15,918 Speaker 1: pull the ball, and then the power shows up. The 636 00:30:15,958 --> 00:30:17,878 Speaker 1: ability to get the barrel on the ball was there, 637 00:30:19,238 --> 00:30:21,238 Speaker 1: and certainly Mauer was that case. I mean, he never 638 00:30:21,278 --> 00:30:24,158 Speaker 1: hit for a lot of power, Joe, but I was 639 00:30:24,198 --> 00:30:28,198 Speaker 1: surprised people were surprised that he's a first ballot Hall 640 00:30:28,198 --> 00:30:28,638 Speaker 1: of Famer. 641 00:30:29,398 --> 00:30:31,558 Speaker 2: He's one of the best hitting catchers of all time. 642 00:30:31,918 --> 00:30:33,518 Speaker 1: And I realized he had to get out from behind 643 00:30:33,518 --> 00:30:36,198 Speaker 1: the plate because of concussions. But there's only been one 644 00:30:36,278 --> 00:30:38,838 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty three players who've caught nine hundred games 645 00:30:38,878 --> 00:30:39,518 Speaker 1: in the big leagues. 646 00:30:39,558 --> 00:30:40,358 Speaker 2: He's one of those. 647 00:30:40,718 --> 00:30:43,238 Speaker 1: If you take that whole universe of catchers who caught 648 00:30:43,238 --> 00:30:45,838 Speaker 1: that much in the big leagues, he has the third 649 00:30:45,918 --> 00:30:50,198 Speaker 1: highest ops in baseball history. Among those catchers, only Mike Piazza, 650 00:30:50,518 --> 00:30:53,438 Speaker 1: Mickey Cochran, both Hall of famers are ahead of him. 651 00:30:53,678 --> 00:30:55,158 Speaker 2: I mean, that's a Hall of Famer, come on. 652 00:30:55,398 --> 00:30:57,158 Speaker 3: No surprise. Absolutely. 653 00:30:57,398 --> 00:30:59,198 Speaker 2: And here's the other thing with Joe Mauer. 654 00:30:59,758 --> 00:31:03,518 Speaker 1: He was drafted number one overall by the Minnesota Twins. 655 00:31:03,718 --> 00:31:05,918 Speaker 1: Talked about he was a three sport athlete. But Joe 656 00:31:05,998 --> 00:31:10,598 Speaker 1: at that time, if you can believe this, even in Minnesota, 657 00:31:11,118 --> 00:31:16,158 Speaker 1: the Twins were criticized for not taking Mark Pryor instead 658 00:31:16,158 --> 00:31:19,558 Speaker 1: of Joe Mauer. Prior's coming out of USC and he 659 00:31:19,638 --> 00:31:23,078 Speaker 1: looks like the next Tom sever He is the finished product. 660 00:31:23,238 --> 00:31:25,478 Speaker 1: Joe Mauer is a high school catcher. It's going to 661 00:31:25,558 --> 00:31:30,518 Speaker 1: take some developing. People thought the Twins were being cheap 662 00:31:30,878 --> 00:31:34,918 Speaker 1: by not signing drafting Mark Pryor. Pryor goes to the 663 00:31:34,918 --> 00:31:37,878 Speaker 1: Cubs at number two, gets a signing bonus of ten 664 00:31:37,918 --> 00:31:40,078 Speaker 1: and a half million dollars, a record at that time. 665 00:31:40,478 --> 00:31:43,278 Speaker 1: Joe Mauer at number one, signs with the Twins for 666 00:31:43,358 --> 00:31:46,358 Speaker 1: about half of that. Now, listen, maybe the Twins did 667 00:31:46,358 --> 00:31:50,158 Speaker 1: have finances in mind when they made this decision. But Joe, 668 00:31:50,238 --> 00:31:52,438 Speaker 1: I you know, a lot of people talked about Prior 669 00:31:52,558 --> 00:31:53,918 Speaker 1: being a sure thing. 670 00:31:54,318 --> 00:31:54,998 Speaker 2: He's a pitcher. 671 00:31:55,398 --> 00:31:59,598 Speaker 1: They're always one injury away from being less than an 672 00:31:59,598 --> 00:32:03,718 Speaker 1: impact player. And at the time people talked about Prior's 673 00:32:03,758 --> 00:32:06,598 Speaker 1: mc cannucks. He actually had a flawed his delivery. He 674 00:32:06,638 --> 00:32:09,038 Speaker 1: was a little late loading the baseball, and it certainly 675 00:32:09,078 --> 00:32:10,838 Speaker 1: caught up with him. He could not stay healthy. He 676 00:32:10,878 --> 00:32:13,478 Speaker 1: was done at the age of twenty five. Joe Maher 677 00:32:13,558 --> 00:32:17,718 Speaker 1: had this repeatable swing off the charts makeup premium position. 678 00:32:17,998 --> 00:32:21,318 Speaker 1: I was surprised going back on how much criticism the 679 00:32:21,358 --> 00:32:23,478 Speaker 1: Twins got for drafting Joe Mauer, and I think about 680 00:32:23,478 --> 00:32:26,038 Speaker 1: the draft last year with Paul Skeens and Dylan Cruz 681 00:32:26,118 --> 00:32:31,238 Speaker 1: teammates at LSU. Given the history Joe, because no number 682 00:32:31,238 --> 00:32:34,238 Speaker 1: one draft pick as a pitcher has ever made the 683 00:32:34,278 --> 00:32:37,038 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame, and Mauer is now the fourth to 684 00:32:37,078 --> 00:32:40,918 Speaker 1: do so. As a position player, I would always, and 685 00:32:40,958 --> 00:32:44,078 Speaker 1: I mean always lean towards the position player. I would 686 00:32:44,078 --> 00:32:46,478 Speaker 1: have taken Cruise over the over Skeins. And that's not 687 00:32:46,478 --> 00:32:49,118 Speaker 1: a knock. I mean on Skeens, he's going to be 688 00:32:49,158 --> 00:32:52,398 Speaker 1: really really good for Pittsburgh. But I just think when 689 00:32:52,398 --> 00:32:55,198 Speaker 1: you have an elite position player, an everyday player for 690 00:32:55,278 --> 00:32:58,318 Speaker 1: the long haul, I'm going with that guy over the pitcher. 691 00:32:58,318 --> 00:33:02,558 Speaker 3: Hey, especially that position. Just think Buster Posey also, right 692 00:33:03,278 --> 00:33:07,358 Speaker 3: when you have a high school catcher that you really 693 00:33:07,358 --> 00:33:09,478 Speaker 3: feel that strongly about, with that kind of a body, 694 00:33:09,518 --> 00:33:11,918 Speaker 3: that kind of athleticism, and on top of that, he 695 00:33:11,998 --> 00:33:14,878 Speaker 3: hits left handed. I mean that was the thing growing 696 00:33:14,998 --> 00:33:16,998 Speaker 3: up as a young scout to a left tended hitting 697 00:33:17,038 --> 00:33:19,638 Speaker 3: catchers were like at a premium. If you could find 698 00:33:19,638 --> 00:33:21,958 Speaker 3: one of those things, that was like, really, kudos to you. 699 00:33:22,438 --> 00:33:24,838 Speaker 3: So this guy had all that plus the leadership component. 700 00:33:24,878 --> 00:33:27,638 Speaker 3: He had everything going on for him. So I can understand, 701 00:33:28,198 --> 00:33:30,758 Speaker 3: you know why they might talk about USC and the 702 00:33:30,798 --> 00:33:32,878 Speaker 3: amount of money whatever for prior. But I think if 703 00:33:32,918 --> 00:33:35,118 Speaker 3: we're going to run an expansion group, it's almost like 704 00:33:35,158 --> 00:33:38,718 Speaker 3: if you could find a catcher like I always thought 705 00:33:38,758 --> 00:33:40,958 Speaker 3: Ped Rodriguez, my god, you would want to start an 706 00:33:41,038 --> 00:33:44,118 Speaker 3: organization with him back when he was first starting out. 707 00:33:44,358 --> 00:33:46,478 Speaker 3: If you got a catcher that's for real, Buster Posey, 708 00:33:46,478 --> 00:33:49,118 Speaker 3: if he's for real, and you could determine that this 709 00:33:49,198 --> 00:33:50,838 Speaker 3: is the guy you want to build everything else around. 710 00:33:50,918 --> 00:33:52,518 Speaker 3: Johnny Bench. I mean, you could go on and on 711 00:33:52,598 --> 00:33:55,278 Speaker 3: about you know, Therman, Munson whatever. I mean. All these 712 00:33:55,318 --> 00:33:56,998 Speaker 3: guys are the guys you wanted to build a whole 713 00:33:56,998 --> 00:33:59,718 Speaker 3: group around. They're not easy to find. I mean these 714 00:33:59,758 --> 00:34:03,478 Speaker 3: guys well, I mean I as a yes, I would 715 00:34:03,478 --> 00:34:07,198 Speaker 3: adapt solutely want to if I felt really strongly about it. 716 00:34:07,798 --> 00:34:11,118 Speaker 3: I definitely would want that catcher over a starting pitcher 717 00:34:11,518 --> 00:34:13,598 Speaker 3: if I felt that strongly about him being like my 718 00:34:13,678 --> 00:34:17,318 Speaker 3: centerpiece for years to come. Because those guys are invaluable. 719 00:34:17,518 --> 00:34:19,118 Speaker 2: Hey, Joe, what position did you play? 720 00:34:19,878 --> 00:34:20,638 Speaker 3: It's quarterback. 721 00:34:23,878 --> 00:34:25,158 Speaker 2: That's right by the way. 722 00:34:25,398 --> 00:34:28,278 Speaker 1: The other three number one picks who reached the Hall 723 00:34:28,358 --> 00:34:29,958 Speaker 1: of Fame, can you name them? 724 00:34:30,598 --> 00:34:32,078 Speaker 2: I Besides Joe. 725 00:34:31,878 --> 00:34:34,158 Speaker 1: Mauer was the fourth, so there was three before him 726 00:34:34,198 --> 00:34:35,918 Speaker 1: picked number one of the draft wound up in the 727 00:34:35,918 --> 00:34:36,358 Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. 728 00:34:36,838 --> 00:34:39,918 Speaker 3: Dude, Tom seaver no was that he. 729 00:34:39,918 --> 00:34:43,198 Speaker 1: Was a special draft pick by the New York Mets. Okay, supplement, 730 00:34:44,718 --> 00:34:47,758 Speaker 1: Ken Griffy Jr. You got it, Okay, The man, you 731 00:34:47,798 --> 00:34:49,558 Speaker 1: invented the shift for that's. 732 00:34:49,398 --> 00:34:52,038 Speaker 3: Right, Ken Griffy Junior. It's going to take me a 733 00:34:52,038 --> 00:34:54,238 Speaker 3: while to go ahead, to take me too long. 734 00:34:54,398 --> 00:34:58,198 Speaker 1: Well, one is Chipper Jones, okay, who was lucky enough 735 00:34:58,198 --> 00:35:00,238 Speaker 1: like Joe Maher to play his career with one team 736 00:35:00,278 --> 00:35:03,038 Speaker 1: Atlanta Breys of course, and the other recently Harold Baines 737 00:35:03,358 --> 00:35:07,198 Speaker 1: number one. Really yeah, but think about Joe Mauer. He's 738 00:35:07,238 --> 00:35:10,438 Speaker 1: the only one in the history of this game he's 739 00:35:10,558 --> 00:35:15,118 Speaker 1: drafted by his hometown team number one overall, never plays 740 00:35:15,158 --> 00:35:17,958 Speaker 1: another day for another team, and goes to the Hall 741 00:35:17,998 --> 00:35:21,198 Speaker 1: of Fame. I mean, how storybook is that. That's the 742 00:35:21,278 --> 00:35:22,758 Speaker 1: way you draw it up when you're a kid. 743 00:35:22,958 --> 00:35:26,918 Speaker 3: Absolutely, no question. He's and like you were saying earlier 744 00:35:27,078 --> 00:35:29,238 Speaker 3: about you know, maybe there was some reticence with all that. 745 00:35:29,278 --> 00:35:32,718 Speaker 3: I mean he, you know, playing your whole career in Minnesota, 746 00:35:33,478 --> 00:35:35,078 Speaker 3: He's not going to get the same kind of publicity 747 00:35:35,118 --> 00:35:36,318 Speaker 3: some of these guys are going to get on the 748 00:35:36,318 --> 00:35:38,718 Speaker 3: different coasts, et cetera. So there's that kind of an 749 00:35:38,718 --> 00:35:41,238 Speaker 3: obscurity to what he had done. But I promise you 750 00:35:41,318 --> 00:35:43,478 Speaker 3: one thing, if you're in the other dugout, there's nothing 751 00:35:43,518 --> 00:35:44,638 Speaker 3: obscure about Joe Model. 752 00:35:44,958 --> 00:35:47,398 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Hey, we'll take a quick break. 753 00:35:47,398 --> 00:35:49,998 Speaker 1: But before I mentioned, we had a fourth Hall of 754 00:35:50,038 --> 00:35:53,518 Speaker 1: Famer who's going in, and we'll talk about. 755 00:35:53,278 --> 00:36:06,638 Speaker 2: Him when we get back, Okay, Joe. 756 00:36:06,678 --> 00:36:10,078 Speaker 1: So this summer in Cooperstown, New York, we'll be sitting 757 00:36:10,078 --> 00:36:13,278 Speaker 1: there listening to the Hall of Fame speeches of Adrian Beltray, 758 00:36:13,678 --> 00:36:18,478 Speaker 1: Todd Helton, Joe Mauer, and the fourth Jim Leland, who 759 00:36:18,558 --> 00:36:20,958 Speaker 1: was inducted by the Eras Committee. 760 00:36:21,758 --> 00:36:22,998 Speaker 2: I can't wait for that speech. 761 00:36:23,278 --> 00:36:25,358 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know about you, Joe, but I'm 762 00:36:25,398 --> 00:36:28,198 Speaker 1: expecting Jim Leland to cry in the course of that speech. 763 00:36:29,878 --> 00:36:31,238 Speaker 2: Very deserving Hall of Famer. 764 00:36:31,758 --> 00:36:34,838 Speaker 1: I always thought, you know, there are certain players and 765 00:36:35,198 --> 00:36:38,878 Speaker 1: very few managers. While they're doing what they're doing, you 766 00:36:38,918 --> 00:36:41,198 Speaker 1: think to yourself, I'm watching a Hall of Famer. 767 00:36:41,478 --> 00:36:43,038 Speaker 2: And I felt that way about Jim Leland. 768 00:36:43,398 --> 00:36:47,998 Speaker 3: Of course, listen, I got to know Jimmy through Don Zimmer. 769 00:36:48,158 --> 00:36:51,598 Speaker 3: I mean, of course I knew who Jim was, but 770 00:36:51,718 --> 00:36:53,798 Speaker 3: Jim and him were really tight. So that's how I 771 00:36:53,838 --> 00:36:56,398 Speaker 3: got my end with Jim. And then here came the 772 00:36:56,438 --> 00:36:58,278 Speaker 3: time you have to manage against him, and I'm the 773 00:36:58,278 --> 00:37:00,118 Speaker 3: young manager with the Rays and I swear to god. 774 00:37:00,158 --> 00:37:04,158 Speaker 3: I mean, you go into that game and your apps, 775 00:37:03,998 --> 00:37:06,438 Speaker 3: it's like it's having to know where so and so 776 00:37:06,598 --> 00:37:08,158 Speaker 3: was on the court at all times or on the 777 00:37:08,158 --> 00:37:10,838 Speaker 3: field at all times as an athlete, as a player, 778 00:37:10,878 --> 00:37:14,798 Speaker 3: you just you just gave him that much respect. The 779 00:37:14,798 --> 00:37:17,238 Speaker 3: fact that he's got to know something that I don't know. 780 00:37:17,238 --> 00:37:19,638 Speaker 3: He's got to see something that I don't see. That's 781 00:37:19,718 --> 00:37:23,078 Speaker 3: that's how I I walked into that game the first time, 782 00:37:23,078 --> 00:37:26,118 Speaker 3: I think was in Detroit, so he had all that 783 00:37:26,198 --> 00:37:28,758 Speaker 3: going on, and then when you talk to him, it 784 00:37:28,838 --> 00:37:31,158 Speaker 3: was so identifiable. I mean, is the way he came 785 00:37:31,238 --> 00:37:32,998 Speaker 3: up and the way he came up were very similar. 786 00:37:33,398 --> 00:37:36,158 Speaker 3: Where we came from, our backgrounds, all that was very similar. 787 00:37:36,758 --> 00:37:39,678 Speaker 3: And so when you manage against somebody like that, and 788 00:37:39,718 --> 00:37:42,038 Speaker 3: I've always said this, a guy that's really rooted in 789 00:37:42,318 --> 00:37:46,398 Speaker 3: a strong minor league background, heads up, because these guys 790 00:37:46,438 --> 00:37:50,118 Speaker 3: have tried everything on backfields and out posts and whatever, 791 00:37:50,158 --> 00:37:53,038 Speaker 3: and they've seen everything, and they've they've ridden a lot 792 00:37:53,038 --> 00:37:56,718 Speaker 3: of buses, and you know they're they're not they're not 793 00:37:57,398 --> 00:37:59,518 Speaker 3: going to shy away from a tough conversation. They're not 794 00:38:00,078 --> 00:38:03,238 Speaker 3: getting an umpire space. All this stuff about him, you 795 00:38:03,358 --> 00:38:07,278 Speaker 3: had to pay attention. And that was my thought when 796 00:38:07,278 --> 00:38:09,958 Speaker 3: we managed again, when they managed against him, it was 797 00:38:10,118 --> 00:38:11,798 Speaker 3: it was just different. It was just different. Nois because 798 00:38:11,798 --> 00:38:13,438 Speaker 3: it a Doug and I felt that way about Panela. 799 00:38:14,158 --> 00:38:17,558 Speaker 3: I felt that way about Boach. There's certain guys that listen. 800 00:38:17,598 --> 00:38:20,878 Speaker 3: I respect everybody, don't get me wrong, but there's others 801 00:38:20,918 --> 00:38:25,398 Speaker 3: that they really It's like when you face a good 802 00:38:25,438 --> 00:38:28,078 Speaker 3: picture as a hitter, they just bring out the best 803 00:38:28,118 --> 00:38:30,798 Speaker 3: in you. I think because you're not going to you're 804 00:38:30,798 --> 00:38:32,598 Speaker 3: not going to sit back, You're not going to relax 805 00:38:32,638 --> 00:38:36,318 Speaker 3: at all because you believe they're not going to miss anything. 806 00:38:36,438 --> 00:38:38,878 Speaker 3: Thus you cannot miss. You got to stay on top 807 00:38:38,918 --> 00:38:39,678 Speaker 3: of your stuff too. 808 00:38:40,118 --> 00:38:43,078 Speaker 1: Yeah, you mentioned similarities Joe and that there are striking 809 00:38:43,118 --> 00:38:45,158 Speaker 1: I mean, both of you guys more than paid your 810 00:38:45,238 --> 00:38:47,238 Speaker 1: dues before you got a chance in the big leagues. 811 00:38:47,518 --> 00:38:51,838 Speaker 1: Jim Leland managed, I believe, twenty years managed and coach 812 00:38:51,878 --> 00:38:53,438 Speaker 1: twenty years in the minor leagues. 813 00:38:53,878 --> 00:38:55,238 Speaker 2: You know, he came up and. 814 00:38:55,198 --> 00:38:58,158 Speaker 1: Earned his dues and waited and as you said, you 815 00:38:58,238 --> 00:39:01,158 Speaker 1: never wanted anything before your time. There's certainly no sense 816 00:39:01,198 --> 00:39:04,278 Speaker 1: of entitlement for people like you and Jim Leland earned 817 00:39:04,358 --> 00:39:08,038 Speaker 1: what you got, and I think your players all respected that. 818 00:39:08,838 --> 00:39:12,358 Speaker 1: And Jim Leland is now only the fourth manager to 819 00:39:12,358 --> 00:39:14,518 Speaker 1: go in the Hall of Fame who never played a. 820 00:39:14,558 --> 00:39:16,038 Speaker 2: Day in the big leagues. Think about that. 821 00:39:16,158 --> 00:39:17,958 Speaker 1: I mean, it's hard enough just to get a big 822 00:39:18,038 --> 00:39:22,278 Speaker 1: league job, as you know, without having that on your resume, 823 00:39:22,358 --> 00:39:24,678 Speaker 1: the fact that you were a major league player, which, 824 00:39:24,758 --> 00:39:26,798 Speaker 1: let's face it, that gets you a foot in the door. 825 00:39:27,358 --> 00:39:29,758 Speaker 1: It gives you a reputation that you can kind of 826 00:39:29,798 --> 00:39:33,398 Speaker 1: work off of. Frank Silly, Joe McCarthy, Earl Weaver, Jim 827 00:39:33,478 --> 00:39:36,598 Speaker 1: Leland the only four managers never played a day in 828 00:39:36,638 --> 00:39:39,238 Speaker 1: the big leagues and made it to the Hall of Fame. 829 00:39:39,918 --> 00:39:43,638 Speaker 1: And the other similarity you have with Jim Joe is 830 00:39:43,678 --> 00:39:47,118 Speaker 1: your ability to turn different franchises around. I think only 831 00:39:47,158 --> 00:39:49,598 Speaker 1: you and Jim Leland have been able to take teams 832 00:39:49,678 --> 00:39:52,518 Speaker 1: that lost one hundred games, two franchises that lost one 833 00:39:52,558 --> 00:39:55,998 Speaker 1: hundred games and have them playing in the World Series 834 00:39:56,078 --> 00:39:59,758 Speaker 1: just a couple of years later. That's doing it once. 835 00:39:59,878 --> 00:40:03,478 Speaker 1: Is hard enough to do that twice. So I see 836 00:40:03,478 --> 00:40:06,518 Speaker 1: a lot of parallels in your careers, and you know, 837 00:40:06,558 --> 00:40:09,278 Speaker 1: hopefully there's a day where you're recognized as Jim Leland 838 00:40:09,318 --> 00:40:11,678 Speaker 1: is going to and as I said, Jim Leland, I 839 00:40:11,718 --> 00:40:15,158 Speaker 1: can't wait for that speech because I know everybody who 840 00:40:15,198 --> 00:40:18,998 Speaker 1: has played for Jim Leland loves Jim Leland and they 841 00:40:19,038 --> 00:40:23,318 Speaker 1: do that out of as much respect as it is admiration. 842 00:40:23,478 --> 00:40:25,318 Speaker 1: By that, I mean, he's not afraid to call out 843 00:40:25,358 --> 00:40:28,158 Speaker 1: Barry Bonds, but he's also going to put. 844 00:40:27,838 --> 00:40:29,078 Speaker 2: His arm around you. 845 00:40:29,438 --> 00:40:31,998 Speaker 1: And you've used a similar line, Joe, and I'll quote 846 00:40:32,038 --> 00:40:34,278 Speaker 1: Jim Leland. Sounds like he stole it from you, but 847 00:40:34,278 --> 00:40:37,318 Speaker 1: I'm sure you both came up with this originally. If 848 00:40:37,358 --> 00:40:41,278 Speaker 1: you mislead a player, you lose them forever. If you 849 00:40:41,318 --> 00:40:44,118 Speaker 1: tell them the truth, you lose them for about twenty 850 00:40:44,118 --> 00:40:45,518 Speaker 1: four hours right on. 851 00:40:45,678 --> 00:40:48,158 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, that's the thing. My line would be, 852 00:40:48,398 --> 00:40:50,238 Speaker 3: if I tell you the truth, you might I like 853 00:40:50,318 --> 00:40:51,758 Speaker 3: me for a week or ten days, but if I 854 00:40:51,798 --> 00:40:54,598 Speaker 3: lie to you, You're gonna hate me forever. It's truth tellers. 855 00:40:54,798 --> 00:40:58,558 Speaker 3: Jim is a truth teller. Don Zimmer was a truth teller. 856 00:40:59,318 --> 00:41:02,958 Speaker 3: Marcel Latchman is a truth teller. The best people I've 857 00:41:02,958 --> 00:41:05,238 Speaker 3: ever worked with are truth tellers and truth and for me, 858 00:41:05,318 --> 00:41:08,958 Speaker 3: that means not easy. You know, don't ask them the 859 00:41:09,038 --> 00:41:12,238 Speaker 3: question because you're going to get the answer. So if 860 00:41:12,238 --> 00:41:14,638 Speaker 3: you have really thin skin, you might not want to 861 00:41:14,638 --> 00:41:16,878 Speaker 3: ask the question of people like this. And I love, 862 00:41:17,398 --> 00:41:21,438 Speaker 3: I love, you know, running things offered by people like 863 00:41:21,638 --> 00:41:24,478 Speaker 3: these people we just mentioned. I love that I loved 864 00:41:24,598 --> 00:41:27,678 Speaker 3: I love the straight up answer. I don't need to 865 00:41:27,798 --> 00:41:30,838 Speaker 3: be coddled with all of that. And that's what you 866 00:41:30,878 --> 00:41:33,118 Speaker 3: get from these guys. I think a real professional wants 867 00:41:33,158 --> 00:41:35,598 Speaker 3: to hear that, he needs to hear that. That's how 868 00:41:35,598 --> 00:41:37,678 Speaker 3: you do get better. And and like you said, you 869 00:41:37,718 --> 00:41:39,478 Speaker 3: can still you can still put your arm round a dude, 870 00:41:39,518 --> 00:41:41,198 Speaker 3: and you know when it's time to do that. You know, 871 00:41:41,238 --> 00:41:43,318 Speaker 3: you don't kick somebody when they're down, ever, And that's 872 00:41:43,358 --> 00:41:45,958 Speaker 3: even like when we talked about having team meetings for me, 873 00:41:46,518 --> 00:41:48,358 Speaker 3: just because we've lost a couple of game, that's the 874 00:41:48,398 --> 00:41:51,238 Speaker 3: worst probable time I think to have a meeting. If 875 00:41:51,278 --> 00:41:53,238 Speaker 3: you really want to get on a group, get on 876 00:41:53,278 --> 00:41:55,238 Speaker 3: a group after they've been successful. Little bit like that 877 00:41:55,278 --> 00:41:57,598 Speaker 3: time I talked you about in Kansas City with the 878 00:41:58,198 --> 00:42:00,078 Speaker 3: Rays when we're doing really well in two thousand and 879 00:42:00,118 --> 00:42:01,838 Speaker 3: eight and all of a sudden, I thought we had 880 00:42:02,158 --> 00:42:03,678 Speaker 3: we won, but we had a bad day and we're 881 00:42:03,718 --> 00:42:05,838 Speaker 3: on the and until Davey get them in the clubhouse. 882 00:42:06,158 --> 00:42:08,398 Speaker 3: This is the right time, and I went absolutely ape 883 00:42:08,478 --> 00:42:11,718 Speaker 3: crap on these guys because it was the right time 884 00:42:11,758 --> 00:42:14,598 Speaker 3: to do it when the team's lost five, six, seven, eight, 885 00:42:14,718 --> 00:42:16,998 Speaker 3: nine ten in a row, which I did, we did 886 00:42:16,998 --> 00:42:19,758 Speaker 3: a couple of years ago at the Angels. To me, 887 00:42:19,838 --> 00:42:22,318 Speaker 3: that's when individual kind of stuff is more necessary or 888 00:42:22,358 --> 00:42:24,478 Speaker 3: players need to get together as a group, and that's 889 00:42:24,478 --> 00:42:26,998 Speaker 3: where they need me to be consistent and see that 890 00:42:27,118 --> 00:42:29,598 Speaker 3: I got their back. I understand what's going on. I'm listen. 891 00:42:29,878 --> 00:42:32,038 Speaker 3: If there's a lack of effort. If I perceive a 892 00:42:32,118 --> 00:42:35,638 Speaker 3: lack of effort, that's different. That's then it does require intervention. 893 00:42:35,838 --> 00:42:38,678 Speaker 3: But if you think things are in order and everything 894 00:42:38,758 --> 00:42:41,998 Speaker 3: they obviously are trying, it's just not working out. A 895 00:42:42,038 --> 00:42:44,798 Speaker 3: lot of bad luck happen whatever, it's a different tact, 896 00:42:45,038 --> 00:42:47,038 Speaker 3: and that's why you have to have your thumb on 897 00:42:47,078 --> 00:42:49,518 Speaker 3: the pulse all the time, and you have to make 898 00:42:49,558 --> 00:42:52,118 Speaker 3: these kind of determinations based on what you're seeing, what 899 00:42:52,198 --> 00:42:55,918 Speaker 3: you believe, and not to be influenced by those around 900 00:42:55,998 --> 00:42:59,398 Speaker 3: you that you know their sensibilities because they've never done 901 00:42:59,398 --> 00:43:02,638 Speaker 3: it before. Wants you to get angry or upset or 902 00:43:02,798 --> 00:43:05,958 Speaker 3: fire on somebody or fire somebody. Not true, man, it's 903 00:43:05,998 --> 00:43:10,198 Speaker 3: not necessary. Every situation is different, every person is different, 904 00:43:10,558 --> 00:43:13,638 Speaker 3: requires a different kind attack based on for me, a 905 00:43:13,678 --> 00:43:17,318 Speaker 3: lot of experience. So Jimmy wasn't as great at that. 906 00:43:17,518 --> 00:43:21,078 Speaker 3: And I've enjoyed my conversations with him, and I did. 907 00:43:21,118 --> 00:43:23,678 Speaker 3: I did text him after he got into the Hall 908 00:43:23,718 --> 00:43:25,478 Speaker 3: of Fame as he was elected. He got right back 909 00:43:25,518 --> 00:43:27,518 Speaker 3: at me. I'm really happy for him and his family. 910 00:43:27,918 --> 00:43:30,478 Speaker 1: But Joe, let me ask you this. There's the famous 911 00:43:30,558 --> 00:43:35,278 Speaker 1: video of jim Leland airing out Barry Bond's spring training 912 00:43:35,318 --> 00:43:38,398 Speaker 1: on the field, right. You know, Bonds was moping around, 913 00:43:38,438 --> 00:43:41,118 Speaker 1: he was tired of the pirates taking the arbitration and 914 00:43:41,158 --> 00:43:44,198 Speaker 1: he actually, you know, said some things about or to 915 00:43:44,398 --> 00:43:46,958 Speaker 1: the coaching staff, which Jimmy didn't want to hear, and 916 00:43:46,998 --> 00:43:49,758 Speaker 1: he Jimmy finally had enough, and yeah, there were cameras 917 00:43:49,758 --> 00:43:51,838 Speaker 1: and microphones and they picked it up. Jimmy said he 918 00:43:51,878 --> 00:43:54,078 Speaker 1: was tired of kissing his butt, basically told me, you 919 00:43:54,078 --> 00:43:56,518 Speaker 1: don't like it, get out of here. So my question is, 920 00:43:56,678 --> 00:43:59,638 Speaker 1: could anything like that happen today? And I'm not talking 921 00:43:59,638 --> 00:44:03,038 Speaker 1: about having cameras there. I'm talking about in this day 922 00:44:03,038 --> 00:44:08,318 Speaker 1: and age, right, where players are used to always being complimented, right, 923 00:44:08,838 --> 00:44:10,638 Speaker 1: And I don't think there's a lot of players who 924 00:44:10,638 --> 00:44:14,398 Speaker 1: play today who feel like there's a certain fear of 925 00:44:14,478 --> 00:44:17,998 Speaker 1: letting down their manager, and that's part of their motivation. 926 00:44:18,758 --> 00:44:21,558 Speaker 1: It's more like, tell me what I'm doing right, keep 927 00:44:21,718 --> 00:44:26,798 Speaker 1: you know, be positive with everything, And can that happen today? 928 00:44:27,358 --> 00:44:32,438 Speaker 1: Does any manager dare call out a player? Listen, I've 929 00:44:32,478 --> 00:44:36,478 Speaker 1: been through situations and press conferences with Dallas Green and 930 00:44:36,518 --> 00:44:41,358 Speaker 1: Billy Martin and Davy Johnson calling out their players publicly 931 00:44:42,278 --> 00:44:43,198 Speaker 1: very often. 932 00:44:43,358 --> 00:44:47,318 Speaker 2: It was not unusual. It never happens now. 933 00:44:47,438 --> 00:44:51,958 Speaker 1: So even without cameras around, without a press conference, without microphones, 934 00:44:52,038 --> 00:44:56,318 Speaker 1: could that happen where a manager actually goes after a 935 00:44:56,358 --> 00:44:58,478 Speaker 1: player the way Jim Leland did Barry Bonds? 936 00:44:58,598 --> 00:44:59,598 Speaker 2: Can that happen today? 937 00:45:00,038 --> 00:45:03,558 Speaker 3: I don't know that it can. I honestly, I'm thinking 938 00:45:03,558 --> 00:45:06,038 Speaker 3: as you're talking about it, only because there'd be a 939 00:45:06,118 --> 00:45:09,198 Speaker 3: banding against the manager among the group. That would be 940 00:45:09,918 --> 00:45:12,078 Speaker 3: my first take. And you'd have to be really certain 941 00:45:12,118 --> 00:45:14,638 Speaker 3: of this in the eyes if the manager knows, in 942 00:45:14,678 --> 00:45:16,838 Speaker 3: the eyes of the rest of the group that whomever 943 00:45:16,878 --> 00:45:19,758 Speaker 3: this player is. This person is absolutely at fault here. 944 00:45:19,958 --> 00:45:22,638 Speaker 3: Whereas the players can actually see and understand that you 945 00:45:22,718 --> 00:45:24,958 Speaker 3: might be able to do that, but if it's not 946 00:45:25,038 --> 00:45:27,958 Speaker 3: clear cut, it would almost it would absolutely backfire. I 947 00:45:27,998 --> 00:45:30,918 Speaker 3: believe the only chance would be somebody with a great 948 00:45:30,918 --> 00:45:33,398 Speaker 3: amount of cachet, like in today's game. That would probably 949 00:45:33,478 --> 00:45:36,158 Speaker 3: be Boach, probably the only guy left that I don't 950 00:45:36,158 --> 00:45:37,638 Speaker 3: want to say could get away with that, but can 951 00:45:37,678 --> 00:45:40,998 Speaker 3: get away with that. Otherwise they will band together everybody. 952 00:45:41,038 --> 00:45:44,678 Speaker 3: Here's what happens. Everybody looks for allies when you if 953 00:45:44,718 --> 00:45:46,798 Speaker 3: you go after, not necessarily go after, but if you 954 00:45:46,838 --> 00:45:48,438 Speaker 3: attack or whatever you want to have you want to 955 00:45:48,438 --> 00:45:51,838 Speaker 3: describe it a player, then there's going to be this 956 00:45:51,918 --> 00:45:56,998 Speaker 3: search for allies to come together with whomever this person is. 957 00:45:57,478 --> 00:45:59,998 Speaker 3: And they all rally around this player and say, do 958 00:46:00,038 --> 00:46:02,038 Speaker 3: you believe he said that about so and so are 959 00:46:02,078 --> 00:46:05,438 Speaker 3: a guy? And at that point and it becomes well, 960 00:46:05,838 --> 00:46:09,758 Speaker 3: it becomes highly detrimental, and it infiltrates the fabric of 961 00:46:09,798 --> 00:46:11,838 Speaker 3: the whole group, and before you know it, they can 962 00:46:11,958 --> 00:46:13,638 Speaker 3: shut you down. I don't know what happened to Milwaukee 963 00:46:13,798 --> 00:46:15,878 Speaker 3: right now with the Bucks. Maybe you know better than me. 964 00:46:16,318 --> 00:46:18,438 Speaker 3: But I mean that was a classic example. I don't 965 00:46:18,478 --> 00:46:20,918 Speaker 3: know anything, but I just what I read how this 966 00:46:20,958 --> 00:46:24,598 Speaker 3: group it seems a bandit to get rid of their coach. 967 00:46:25,278 --> 00:46:27,718 Speaker 3: The other day when I was watching the Eagles game, 968 00:46:28,038 --> 00:46:30,478 Speaker 3: We've talked about this, it really looked that way to me, 969 00:46:30,678 --> 00:46:32,958 Speaker 3: and I'll say that time. I'm saying it now. I mean, 970 00:46:33,038 --> 00:46:35,798 Speaker 3: it was really frightful in the sense that it looked 971 00:46:35,798 --> 00:46:39,398 Speaker 3: as though that team obviously quit under coach whatever reason. 972 00:46:39,518 --> 00:46:42,678 Speaker 3: I don't know, that would be the problem, and I 973 00:46:42,678 --> 00:46:46,078 Speaker 3: think it could happen because today's player is not used 974 00:46:46,078 --> 00:46:49,478 Speaker 3: to hearing that kind of stuff. They do kind of 975 00:46:49,518 --> 00:46:52,238 Speaker 3: crumble as opposed to fight in a good way back 976 00:46:52,838 --> 00:46:55,998 Speaker 3: when you receive that kind of criticism quick Frankly, you know, 977 00:46:56,158 --> 00:46:57,798 Speaker 3: I played for a lot of guys like that, and 978 00:46:57,918 --> 00:46:59,758 Speaker 3: I kind of like it. And I still want you 979 00:46:59,798 --> 00:47:01,878 Speaker 3: to tell me when you think I stink, Tommy, you 980 00:47:01,878 --> 00:47:03,358 Speaker 3: need to tell me I stink. And I want to 981 00:47:03,398 --> 00:47:06,038 Speaker 3: hear that. And I think that's a good thing. But 982 00:47:06,078 --> 00:47:09,358 Speaker 3: a lot of guys today cannot handle They cannot handle that, 983 00:47:09,518 --> 00:47:12,158 Speaker 3: and with the way social media is generate it now 984 00:47:12,558 --> 00:47:16,118 Speaker 3: and the ally component within a clubhouse be very hard 985 00:47:16,158 --> 00:47:19,078 Speaker 3: for a manager at any kind of cachet and even 986 00:47:19,158 --> 00:47:21,078 Speaker 3: with to go about his business that way. 987 00:47:21,678 --> 00:47:24,518 Speaker 1: I agree with you, and I think the important the 988 00:47:25,158 --> 00:47:28,838 Speaker 1: way to frame that incident with Barry Bonds is that 989 00:47:29,238 --> 00:47:32,158 Speaker 1: those two guys were and remain. 990 00:47:32,598 --> 00:47:33,718 Speaker 2: Very very tight. 991 00:47:34,318 --> 00:47:37,198 Speaker 1: Barry Bond said, I would have went through a brick 992 00:47:37,358 --> 00:47:40,478 Speaker 1: wall for that man, and I would still do it today. 993 00:47:41,118 --> 00:47:44,078 Speaker 1: And I would be shocked if when Jim Leland stands 994 00:47:44,118 --> 00:47:47,078 Speaker 1: up there in Cooperstown in July that makes a speech. 995 00:47:47,078 --> 00:47:48,958 Speaker 2: I'd be shocked if Barry Bonds is not there. 996 00:47:49,758 --> 00:47:52,878 Speaker 1: He means that much to so many players, including the 997 00:47:52,918 --> 00:47:56,278 Speaker 1: guy he aired out with cameras on the field in Bradenton, Florida, 998 00:47:56,358 --> 00:47:58,518 Speaker 1: that spring training. That tells you a lot about Jim 999 00:47:58,558 --> 00:48:00,758 Speaker 1: Leland that you could do something like that and still 1000 00:48:00,838 --> 00:48:03,078 Speaker 1: have tremendous respect from the player. 1001 00:48:03,398 --> 00:48:05,198 Speaker 3: Let me tell you I had one incident I'm not 1002 00:48:05,198 --> 00:48:07,318 Speaker 3: gonna say who it was with the Rays, and I 1003 00:48:07,358 --> 00:48:11,078 Speaker 3: got really upset with somebody during the game. And again 1004 00:48:11,078 --> 00:48:13,118 Speaker 3: it's another situation. I said, Davey, get him in my 1005 00:48:13,318 --> 00:48:16,278 Speaker 3: office right after the game. We did, and we had 1006 00:48:16,318 --> 00:48:21,278 Speaker 3: a nice shouting session, real nice, no holds barred both sides, 1007 00:48:22,358 --> 00:48:23,798 Speaker 3: and I let him know what I thought know in 1008 00:48:23,838 --> 00:48:27,758 Speaker 3: certain terms, and within a couple of days, and then 1009 00:48:27,798 --> 00:48:30,958 Speaker 3: since then real close to the point where like a 1010 00:48:30,998 --> 00:48:34,238 Speaker 3: couple of years later, gets in touch thanking me about this, 1011 00:48:34,358 --> 00:48:37,558 Speaker 3: thanking me about that. I would never have suspected that. 1012 00:48:37,958 --> 00:48:41,238 Speaker 3: So a lot of times through confrontations like that, there 1013 00:48:41,278 --> 00:48:43,718 Speaker 3: is a lot of respect regarding that gid because I'd 1014 00:48:43,798 --> 00:48:46,238 Speaker 3: much I'd much rather, You'd much rather hear it from 1015 00:48:46,238 --> 00:48:49,518 Speaker 3: whomever the source, as opposed to hearing all that criticism 1016 00:48:49,558 --> 00:48:52,398 Speaker 3: from somebody else said about you. And that's where a 1017 00:48:52,438 --> 00:48:54,678 Speaker 3: lot of people don't get it, man. I mean, that's 1018 00:48:54,678 --> 00:48:57,878 Speaker 3: when it comes down to leadership and having the difficult conversations. 1019 00:48:58,278 --> 00:49:01,918 Speaker 3: When they passed that conversation off to and associate to 1020 00:49:02,038 --> 00:49:05,918 Speaker 3: have with that particular player never comes out. Well, you 1021 00:49:06,078 --> 00:49:09,158 Speaker 3: need to have that conversation yourself. You need to augur 1022 00:49:09,198 --> 00:49:12,718 Speaker 3: out time and have that conversation yourself. For as tough 1023 00:49:12,758 --> 00:49:15,278 Speaker 3: as it is, you need to get that done almost 1024 00:49:15,318 --> 00:49:18,118 Speaker 3: one hundred percent of the time. Whomever that's with, and 1025 00:49:18,238 --> 00:49:21,558 Speaker 3: how hot it might get, I don't know, maybe, like 1026 00:49:21,598 --> 00:49:23,198 Speaker 3: I said, a week or ten days, a couple of 1027 00:49:23,238 --> 00:49:25,718 Speaker 3: weeks of maybe a year by the end of it. 1028 00:49:25,958 --> 00:49:28,238 Speaker 3: You're going to come back with a really tight friend 1029 00:49:28,278 --> 00:49:30,998 Speaker 3: because you shot him straight or he shot you straight 1030 00:49:31,278 --> 00:49:32,638 Speaker 3: and both sides appreciate it. 1031 00:49:32,798 --> 00:49:36,998 Speaker 1: Well, congratulations. I can't wait for the speeches. They're always 1032 00:49:37,118 --> 00:49:39,438 Speaker 1: If you've never seen it, you got to tune in 1033 00:49:39,518 --> 00:49:42,438 Speaker 1: because they're never disappointing. When guys get up there and 1034 00:49:42,718 --> 00:49:45,918 Speaker 1: they just reflect on their baseball lives getting the highest 1035 00:49:45,918 --> 00:49:48,758 Speaker 1: honor in the game. Some move to tears. Some are 1036 00:49:49,038 --> 00:49:52,998 Speaker 1: incredibly funny. A guy like Ted Simmons was like this 1037 00:49:53,198 --> 00:49:56,478 Speaker 1: incredible statesman up there, the way he delivered his speech. 1038 00:49:57,678 --> 00:49:59,798 Speaker 1: If you haven't seen it, check them out. This year 1039 00:49:59,838 --> 00:50:04,518 Speaker 1: it'll be Adrian Beltray, Todd Helton, Joe Mauer, and Leland, 1040 00:50:04,638 --> 00:50:06,478 Speaker 1: and believe me, it'll be worth your time. 1041 00:50:06,638 --> 00:50:08,078 Speaker 2: There will not be Billy Wagner. 1042 00:50:08,158 --> 00:50:11,678 Speaker 1: Unfortunately, he missed by just five votes and has one 1043 00:50:11,758 --> 00:50:16,278 Speaker 1: more year left on the ballot. The most dominating closer 1044 00:50:16,478 --> 00:50:19,718 Speaker 1: of all time when it comes to just suppressing offense, 1045 00:50:19,838 --> 00:50:23,598 Speaker 1: lowest batting average against, highest strikeout rate, Billy Wagner one 1046 00:50:23,638 --> 00:50:28,118 Speaker 1: of the premier specialty closers. As the position began to change, 1047 00:50:28,158 --> 00:50:32,638 Speaker 1: Billy Wagner did that as well as anybody in terms 1048 00:50:32,678 --> 00:50:36,078 Speaker 1: of just being a handful to bat again. So hopefully 1049 00:50:36,638 --> 00:50:39,958 Speaker 1: his season or his year is coming next year with 1050 00:50:40,038 --> 00:50:42,918 Speaker 1: an induction in his last year on the writer's ballot. 1051 00:50:42,678 --> 00:50:45,518 Speaker 3: Tommy, one can ask you one question. Yeah, is were 1052 00:50:45,598 --> 00:50:50,718 Speaker 3: that valuable of a tool right now to regarding why 1053 00:50:50,798 --> 00:50:53,118 Speaker 3: somebody is considered good or not good? I mean, I 1054 00:50:53,158 --> 00:50:55,638 Speaker 3: know I've read about his work was kind of miniscule, 1055 00:50:55,678 --> 00:50:59,158 Speaker 3: which is almost difficult to understand. Why has that become 1056 00:50:59,238 --> 00:51:03,118 Speaker 3: such a indicator of greatness? And because it's an I 1057 00:51:03,158 --> 00:51:05,158 Speaker 3: don't even know how it generated. You probably know much 1058 00:51:05,158 --> 00:51:07,598 Speaker 3: better than I do, but it's become such a popular 1059 00:51:07,758 --> 00:51:12,438 Speaker 3: phrase that's utilized to the points it's again it's become 1060 00:51:12,518 --> 00:51:15,118 Speaker 3: ubiquitous in the sense that it's kind of the way 1061 00:51:15,118 --> 00:51:18,038 Speaker 3: that we're going to measure a baseball player. Now to you, 1062 00:51:18,158 --> 00:51:21,438 Speaker 3: because you, again you have to do voting, you study 1063 00:51:21,438 --> 00:51:24,878 Speaker 3: this stuff more than I do. I've noticed, and I do. 1064 00:51:24,998 --> 00:51:26,998 Speaker 3: I do look at that sometimes when people are talking 1065 00:51:27,038 --> 00:51:29,518 Speaker 3: about one guy being better than the other. But I 1066 00:51:29,598 --> 00:51:32,878 Speaker 3: know that Billy Wagner's whereas like not even thirty. I mean, 1067 00:51:32,918 --> 00:51:35,278 Speaker 3: how does that happen? And is it that important? 1068 00:51:35,638 --> 00:51:38,838 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great point, Joe, and especially for pitchers, 1069 00:51:39,278 --> 00:51:42,118 Speaker 1: war is sort of useless. You know, war puts a 1070 00:51:42,158 --> 00:51:45,638 Speaker 1: great premium if you play defensively in the middle of 1071 00:51:45,638 --> 00:51:47,958 Speaker 1: the field, and I get it on the importance of 1072 00:51:48,078 --> 00:51:50,238 Speaker 1: the spectrum of defense. You know that you play in 1073 00:51:50,278 --> 00:51:52,358 Speaker 1: the middle of field, as you mentioned with Maour catching, 1074 00:51:52,678 --> 00:51:55,718 Speaker 1: that's important. So it's not really helpful in terms of pitching, 1075 00:51:56,238 --> 00:52:00,598 Speaker 1: and it skews numbers overall. It's a really good rule 1076 00:52:00,638 --> 00:52:04,118 Speaker 1: of thumb. It's an attempt. It's literally an attempt. It's 1077 00:52:04,118 --> 00:52:07,598 Speaker 1: not a measurement. It's an attempt to boil somebody's value 1078 00:52:07,678 --> 00:52:13,158 Speaker 1: down to one number using offense and defense and combining those. 1079 00:52:14,118 --> 00:52:17,118 Speaker 1: But it's so flawed that that if you just and 1080 00:52:17,158 --> 00:52:19,558 Speaker 1: this is the mistake writers make, they'll use it as 1081 00:52:19,598 --> 00:52:23,078 Speaker 1: an actual measurement, and it's not. It's a good rule 1082 00:52:23,118 --> 00:52:27,078 Speaker 1: of thumb. If you think that that Lou Whittaker was 1083 00:52:27,118 --> 00:52:31,918 Speaker 1: a better player than Yogi Bearra or Reggie Jackson, you'd 1084 00:52:31,918 --> 00:52:34,278 Speaker 1: be laughed out of the room. But that's what war 1085 00:52:34,398 --> 00:52:38,038 Speaker 1: tells you. And people look at Andrew Jones, and a 1086 00:52:38,078 --> 00:52:40,118 Speaker 1: lot of people voted for Andrew Jones. I did not 1087 00:52:40,718 --> 00:52:44,998 Speaker 1: to believe his war is to believe literally that he 1088 00:52:45,078 --> 00:52:49,758 Speaker 1: was twice as good defensively as Willy Mays. He was 1089 00:52:49,878 --> 00:52:54,358 Speaker 1: twice as good as Willie Mays on defense. I'm sorry, 1090 00:52:54,558 --> 00:52:57,398 Speaker 1: I'm not buying that. I saw Devon White, Joe, you 1091 00:52:57,438 --> 00:53:00,718 Speaker 1: saw him. I saw Tory Hunter. Andrew Jones was great, 1092 00:53:01,078 --> 00:53:03,638 Speaker 1: That's right. He wasn't twice as good as Tory Hunter 1093 00:53:03,678 --> 00:53:08,398 Speaker 1: and Davon White, never mind Willie Mays. So the faith 1094 00:53:08,678 --> 00:53:14,558 Speaker 1: that writers are putting in war to me is mind boggling, because, 1095 00:53:15,078 --> 00:53:17,318 Speaker 1: as I said, it's just a rule of thumb is 1096 00:53:17,358 --> 00:53:21,158 Speaker 1: to attempt. It's an approximation, it is not a measurement. 1097 00:53:21,198 --> 00:53:25,598 Speaker 1: And people are defining players by this number, like he's 1098 00:53:25,598 --> 00:53:27,238 Speaker 1: better because he's got a higher war. 1099 00:53:27,758 --> 00:53:29,318 Speaker 2: Stop it. It's not true. 1100 00:53:29,398 --> 00:53:30,758 Speaker 1: I mean, these are the people who would look at 1101 00:53:30,758 --> 00:53:33,718 Speaker 1: the Sistine Chapel ceiling and break it down in terms 1102 00:53:33,718 --> 00:53:37,838 Speaker 1: of the colors and the science of it, and you know, 1103 00:53:37,878 --> 00:53:40,838 Speaker 1: breaking it down scientifically and saying, my god, that's one 1104 00:53:40,838 --> 00:53:44,078 Speaker 1: of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. So you've 1105 00:53:44,158 --> 00:53:47,278 Speaker 1: got to look at it with an artistic guy and 1106 00:53:47,358 --> 00:53:48,878 Speaker 1: not just a scientific one. 1107 00:53:49,558 --> 00:53:51,238 Speaker 3: Could I drop an amen on that? If we're going 1108 00:53:51,238 --> 00:53:53,838 Speaker 3: to talk about the Sistine Chapel, I mean these are 1109 00:53:53,838 --> 00:53:55,998 Speaker 3: the kind of things that bother me a bit, and 1110 00:53:56,078 --> 00:53:59,558 Speaker 3: it's it's totally void of really kind of scouting or 1111 00:53:59,598 --> 00:54:02,558 Speaker 3: understanding what you're seeing. If you're going to start relying 1112 00:54:02,678 --> 00:54:07,158 Speaker 3: on numbers solely to evaluate what you're seeing, then you're 1113 00:54:07,158 --> 00:54:10,318 Speaker 3: missing the most important part of it. I've always thought 1114 00:54:10,358 --> 00:54:14,838 Speaker 3: about baseball scouting as an inexact science because I grew 1115 00:54:14,918 --> 00:54:17,598 Speaker 3: up that way, and to me, without my scouting background, 1116 00:54:17,598 --> 00:54:19,598 Speaker 3: I could have never lasted or done as well in 1117 00:54:19,638 --> 00:54:23,398 Speaker 3: the game as I have. And it is an inexact science, 1118 00:54:23,438 --> 00:54:28,318 Speaker 3: and it is about body movement and observation and watching 1119 00:54:28,438 --> 00:54:32,958 Speaker 3: for lack of better term, body language. Set aside from 1120 00:54:33,478 --> 00:54:36,598 Speaker 3: again natural skills that you're can look for, armspread speed, whatever, 1121 00:54:36,838 --> 00:54:40,478 Speaker 3: they're all combined, and you just can't to reduce it 1122 00:54:40,518 --> 00:54:43,718 Speaker 3: to a number. It just doesn't do it enough. That 1123 00:54:43,718 --> 00:54:46,878 Speaker 3: doesn't do it nearly enough justice obviously. So you know, 1124 00:54:47,398 --> 00:54:51,838 Speaker 3: I appreciate your explanation on that because I see that, 1125 00:54:51,878 --> 00:54:54,518 Speaker 3: and I hear that, and I read that constantly, and 1126 00:54:54,518 --> 00:54:58,878 Speaker 3: they always reference war as though it's biblical. No it's not. 1127 00:54:59,158 --> 00:55:03,518 Speaker 3: It's somebody's mathematical equation. And even like I don't get 1128 00:55:03,558 --> 00:55:05,238 Speaker 3: to see it. But you know, I hear a lot 1129 00:55:05,318 --> 00:55:08,438 Speaker 3: of times, like you know, those that are writing about 1130 00:55:08,478 --> 00:55:12,918 Speaker 3: the game game in progress upstairs. They're so locked into 1131 00:55:12,958 --> 00:55:17,278 Speaker 3: their technology and their and their followers in regards to 1132 00:55:17,918 --> 00:55:20,398 Speaker 3: how to generate a story as opposed to really watching 1133 00:55:20,438 --> 00:55:23,518 Speaker 3: the game. Because the game is normally commented on based 1134 00:55:23,598 --> 00:55:27,678 Speaker 3: on a bullpen pitcher, relief pitcher either doing well or poorly. 1135 00:55:29,438 --> 00:55:32,358 Speaker 3: It's not ever about the execution of the game itself. 1136 00:55:32,358 --> 00:55:36,318 Speaker 3: Different game situations that maybe the seminal moment was a 1137 00:55:36,638 --> 00:55:38,638 Speaker 3: moment that happened in the fifth or sixth inning based 1138 00:55:38,638 --> 00:55:41,078 Speaker 3: on either a choice that a player made or a 1139 00:55:41,078 --> 00:55:44,678 Speaker 3: manager made or whatever. But it's always about bullpen and 1140 00:55:44,758 --> 00:55:46,798 Speaker 3: whether a relief pitcher was good or not good, or 1141 00:55:47,198 --> 00:55:49,438 Speaker 3: got the job done or did not get done. So 1142 00:55:49,478 --> 00:55:54,158 Speaker 3: we've really sophistically sophisticatedly. We have not We're not promoting 1143 00:55:54,158 --> 00:55:55,998 Speaker 3: the game properly to the fans, and I think that's 1144 00:55:56,038 --> 00:55:58,158 Speaker 3: why it's reduced, part of why it's been reduced to 1145 00:55:58,198 --> 00:56:00,798 Speaker 3: the level that it has because there's not a sophistication, 1146 00:56:00,878 --> 00:56:03,878 Speaker 3: and it's a sophisticated game. It's a real thinking man's game. 1147 00:56:04,958 --> 00:56:07,478 Speaker 3: It's not just so obvious that you could rely on 1148 00:56:07,478 --> 00:56:10,518 Speaker 3: one number and then just determine who's good and not good. Anyway, 1149 00:56:10,758 --> 00:56:13,558 Speaker 3: that's my dietribe. But I appreciate your response. 1150 00:56:14,078 --> 00:56:16,158 Speaker 2: I'll give you an amen to that well said. 1151 00:56:16,198 --> 00:56:17,758 Speaker 1: Now I'm going to ask you to be our Billy 1152 00:56:17,758 --> 00:56:20,158 Speaker 1: Wagner and close this edition of the Book of Joe out. 1153 00:56:20,198 --> 00:56:23,438 Speaker 1: You've always you always do a great job, and this 1154 00:56:23,518 --> 00:56:26,958 Speaker 1: is our Hall of Fame edition, So don't blow this one, Joe. 1155 00:56:26,998 --> 00:56:28,198 Speaker 2: You got to close this one out. 1156 00:56:28,278 --> 00:56:31,078 Speaker 3: Okay, you've seen the heard the group Semisonic, but it 1157 00:56:31,118 --> 00:56:34,078 Speaker 3: was also being with the dude by the name of 1158 00:56:34,118 --> 00:56:38,158 Speaker 3: Seneca back in the day, and it's just about you know, 1159 00:56:38,238 --> 00:56:40,438 Speaker 3: this time of the year, we're getting close to spring training, 1160 00:56:41,118 --> 00:56:46,438 Speaker 3: and you know, people have new jobs, you have new desires, wishes, hopes, 1161 00:56:46,918 --> 00:56:49,798 Speaker 3: you know, maybe new Year's resolutions, all this kind of stuff. 1162 00:56:49,838 --> 00:56:55,918 Speaker 3: But every new beginning comes from some beginning's end, and 1163 00:56:56,038 --> 00:56:57,838 Speaker 3: that's where we're at right now. We're looking for new 1164 00:56:57,878 --> 00:57:01,718 Speaker 3: beginnings right now, and in order to arrive at that 1165 00:57:01,718 --> 00:57:05,638 Speaker 3: particular point, something's got to conclude before something can begin. Normally, 1166 00:57:05,638 --> 00:57:09,758 Speaker 3: something's got to conclude. And so for me, I'm really 1167 00:57:10,078 --> 00:57:13,038 Speaker 3: kind of revitalized mentally right now, about new beginnings. That's 1168 00:57:13,118 --> 00:57:16,198 Speaker 3: that's where I'm coming from. So what you're talking about 1169 00:57:16,238 --> 00:57:19,718 Speaker 3: here with these obviously these players going to the Hall 1170 00:57:19,758 --> 00:57:23,638 Speaker 3: of Fame, it's another after this wonderful career that they've experienced. 1171 00:57:24,158 --> 00:57:26,678 Speaker 3: Now what happens after that is going to be an 1172 00:57:26,718 --> 00:57:29,038 Speaker 3: absolutely new beginning. It's going to be regenerated. There's going 1173 00:57:29,078 --> 00:57:31,598 Speaker 3: to be they're going to be in such demand and 1174 00:57:31,718 --> 00:57:35,238 Speaker 3: what they've been able to talk about their accomplishments, and 1175 00:57:35,318 --> 00:57:37,198 Speaker 3: everybody's going to be interested in what they have to say. 1176 00:57:37,318 --> 00:57:39,798 Speaker 3: This is a new beginning for this group of people. 1177 00:57:39,878 --> 00:57:42,638 Speaker 3: But Semisonic said it a coupleies. I didn't realize it 1178 00:57:42,678 --> 00:57:44,318 Speaker 3: went all the way back to Seneca, but I really 1179 00:57:44,318 --> 00:57:46,958 Speaker 3: dig on that. And so here we come into February. 1180 00:57:46,998 --> 00:57:49,198 Speaker 3: Here it comes to spring training right around the corner. 1181 00:57:49,238 --> 00:57:50,758 Speaker 3: It's a new beginning for a lot of folks. 1182 00:57:50,958 --> 00:57:53,478 Speaker 1: I love that and that Semi Sonic song you quoted 1183 00:57:53,558 --> 00:57:55,598 Speaker 1: from closing time. 1184 00:57:55,478 --> 00:58:03,038 Speaker 3: There you go, Oh, why didn't I bring that up? Dude? Dude, 1185 00:58:03,278 --> 00:58:05,678 Speaker 3: it's good at that stuff. You're so good. 1186 00:58:05,718 --> 00:58:07,478 Speaker 2: See you next time, Joe, all right, brother. 1187 00:58:07,558 --> 00:58:07,918 Speaker 3: Thanks. 1188 00:58:16,078 --> 00:58:19,278 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. 1189 00:58:19,518 --> 00:58:24,398 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, Visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 1190 00:58:24,638 --> 00:58:26,398 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.