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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I'm Hannah Elliott and

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Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller.

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Speaker 2: This is Hot Pursuit.

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Speaker 1: Coming up on today's podcast Our Friend and Yours and

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg's top automotive analyst, Michael Dean joins us to tell

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Speaker 1: us about his new report.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to it because you know a

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Speaker 2: lot of auto analyst auto analysts on the street, for example,

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Speaker 2: that work for banks or even sometimes here at Bloomberg Intelligence,

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Speaker 2: they're not really gear heads, Like they don't really care

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Speaker 2: data guys, the data guys, which is good. Like if

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Speaker 2: you're an investor, yes, and if you rely on analysis

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Speaker 2: to help you make money, you don't care if they

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Speaker 2: have like an old nine to twenty eight in the garage, right.

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Speaker 2: But for us, Michael, does we do care? Yes, and

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Speaker 2: he does care. Yeah, he gets it. I'm looking forward

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Speaker 2: to that. Plus, he always has like the inside scoop

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Speaker 2: he's always given me. I call him before I have

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Speaker 2: big CEO interviews.

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Speaker 1: It's like a cheat code.

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Speaker 2: Yes exactly. He tells me like what to ask. He

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Speaker 2: like he's been in the Ferrari factory and seen like

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Speaker 2: the batteries and noticed that the writing on the boxes

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Speaker 2: was Chinese, and you know he does this stuff, which

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Speaker 2: is helpful. Yeah, what else do we have to talk about?

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Speaker 2: I went down to the Rolls Royce private office yesterday

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Speaker 2: and had launch with Jerry Spond, their King of Media,

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Speaker 2: which was fantastic. So we can just touch, just touch

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Speaker 2: on that a little bit. And I don't know if

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Speaker 2: it matters, but it's the second time I've driven it,

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Speaker 2: and you've driven it before too. I'm in the Kia

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Speaker 2: EV nine. Yeah, and for all that, Like, we spend

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Speaker 2: so much time talking about Rolls Royce and Ferrari and

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Speaker 2: Portia and Aston Martin and all these very expensive vehicles,

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Speaker 2: and I think, you know, probably the majority of our

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Speaker 2: audience they have to have at least one car that's

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Speaker 2: just like normal. I'm a regular person, you know, and

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Speaker 2: this is a fantastic vehicle for that. So especially if

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Speaker 2: you're like moving family or gear like it's large and roomy,

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Speaker 2: but also it's just like a great appliance.

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Speaker 1: I think totally agree. What did the girls think of it?

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Speaker 2: They love it, you know, because they any three to row.

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Speaker 2: They're into because they can run around. They think it's

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Speaker 2: really fun to go in the back seat and then

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Speaker 2: to climb over the seats and yeah, it's as long

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Speaker 2: as I can play Frozen and they can move around

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Speaker 2: the thing, they love it, So I'm in that. Plus

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Speaker 2: I went to the New York Auto Show. Actually I

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Speaker 2: went to the New York International Automotive Show, which I

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Speaker 2: know car shows are less and less important, but I

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Speaker 2: went with Christina Raffini, who is the anchor of our

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Speaker 2: new program, Bloomberg This weekend new television program Bloomberg This Weekend.

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Speaker 1: How was that?

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Speaker 2: It was really fun? I mean not, you know, from

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Speaker 2: a journalistic standpoint, not that interesting or but as someone

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Speaker 2: who just loves to look at cars, like, there's still

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Speaker 2: a lot of cars there, you know.

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Speaker 1: What did you see that you liked? There?

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Speaker 2: So you know, again from from a journalistic perspective, there

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Speaker 2: wasn't a ton of new or special.

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Speaker 1: Heart what did your heart see?

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Speaker 2: I mean the same thing I saw last year, like

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Speaker 2: the Mustang GTD, the one in the in the white

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Speaker 2: livery with the red and blue stripes. I just like

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Speaker 2: to look at it, you know. And then the corvettes.

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Speaker 2: I saw, you know, an orange Z six. Is it

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Speaker 2: anything new or incredibly special? Maybe not, but I love

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Speaker 2: looking at it. I love to open the door. I

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Speaker 2: love the door handle mechanisms on the Corvette. The scene

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Speaker 2: corvettes I saw. Manhattan Motor Cars has a stand where

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Speaker 2: I saw this Konigzeg and I got to spend a

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Speaker 2: hell of a lot of time.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember which one it was?

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Speaker 2: It was? Uh, it was something that means queen. It

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Speaker 2: was like Regina or Rigiera or something it means crean aparent. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 2: freaking cool. I mean I'd never really looked into Koonigzeg

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Speaker 2: that much.

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Speaker 1: Christian Coengzeg is like a star.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm legit.

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Speaker 1: All the influencer dudes are obsessed with.

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Speaker 2: It's on my pariff, you know. But it's like it's

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Speaker 2: up in Sweden. So like I'm down with Pegani because

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Speaker 2: it's in the Motor Valley and I'm there often enough

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Speaker 2: that I've done two tours of the Pegani factory, but

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Speaker 2: I don't go to Sweden very much. What a cool car,

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Speaker 2: I mean, just amazing the trickery you can do with

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Speaker 2: that opening up the trunks and the and the bonnet

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Speaker 2: at the same time. You have to open the bonnet

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Speaker 2: to fill up the car, and that's what they call

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Speaker 2: whatever they call the back of the car. It's very fast, obviously,

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Speaker 2: like a thousand and some horsepower. It has three forty

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Speaker 2: five wheels on the back, so like well over a

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Speaker 2: foot in width. But the coolest thing is, which I

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Speaker 2: didn't know, you probably know, they have a ghost as

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Speaker 2: their logo. And I asked the guy why, and he said,

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Speaker 2: because when they started out, they needed a place to

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Speaker 2: put a factory as they were growing, and they took

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Speaker 2: over a Swedish like air force base. And this Swedish

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Speaker 2: air Force base, it was like on the down low,

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Speaker 2: and they were testing all their planes at night. So

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Speaker 2: the locals would say, like, we hear these planes, but

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Speaker 2: we can't see them, so they would call them like

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Speaker 2: the Ghost.

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Speaker 1: That's cool flyers.

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Speaker 2: And then this this like battalion became known as the Ghost,

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Speaker 2: this Air Force battalion. And so now they've just since

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Speaker 2: they were in that that battalion's old headquarters, they've taken

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Speaker 2: on the Ghost is their logo. And this Kunigzeg salesman

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Speaker 2: had actually the ghost logo tattooed on his ball head.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that doesn't surprise me. I mean, honestly, that logo

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Speaker 1: often reminds me of the Wu Tang sign, but I

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Speaker 1: never knew the story behind it. It's pretty cool, right,

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Speaker 1: really cool to know, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Five million dollar cars. Five million dollar cars, that's.

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Speaker 1: Like yeah, I mean it's more and more more normalized.

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Speaker 2: Then Hyundai has a really cool Well, Hyundai has a

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Speaker 2: concept and cool in that it's a three to row

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Speaker 2: body on frame suv. You know how much I love them.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure how cool in terms of the way

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Speaker 2: it looks. It's like an H two.

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Speaker 1: Well, how does it look compared to the Armada.

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Speaker 2: I love the Armada. They had a couple of them there.

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Speaker 2: I still would prefer it to almost any other body

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Speaker 2: on frame suv. This thing does not look nearly as good.

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Speaker 2: But the idea that they're going to enter that market

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Speaker 2: I think is really cool. And they're investing some high

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Speaker 2: billion dollar sum to start producing trucks eventually in the

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Speaker 2: United States of America. Because I was talking to the

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Speaker 2: CEO of Honda, Jose Munos, he was in the office

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Speaker 2: last week. So that's cool that they're going to get in.

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Speaker 2: They're going to make pickup trucks and they're going to

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Speaker 2: make big body on frame vehicles. And then Genesis had

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Speaker 2: the Magma, the the wing back concept there, which is

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Speaker 2: like their RS six station wagon shooting braake fighter.

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Speaker 1: Oll that actually looked kind of cool.

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Speaker 2: It looks amazing.

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Speaker 1: Again, I'm not a wagon person, but this reminds me.

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Speaker 1: And then we'll get to Michael Dean. But did you

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Speaker 1: see that email from Tony who said he laughed really

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Speaker 1: hard at my reaction to the Armada and he made

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Speaker 1: this point. He says, Matt, isn't it interesting that you

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Speaker 1: are willing to overlook the styling of this car but

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Speaker 1: you won't buy a car with Friday Egg headlights? Did

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Speaker 1: you say that that I thought was really funny? Thanks, Tony, Yes, that.

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Speaker 2: Was a good Actually, I guess I still have to

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Speaker 2: right back to Tony and I'm going to And also

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Speaker 2: I think at least next week we should do a

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Speaker 2: mail bag because makes so much.

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Speaker 1: Totally agree, yes, next week.

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Speaker 2: All right, Let's get to our interview with Bloomberg autos

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Speaker 2: analyst based out of London, Michael Dean.

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Speaker 1: The reason I wanted to bring Michael on, first of all,

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Speaker 1: is because I love just talking with him about the industry.

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Speaker 1: He's like my secret source, secret not so secret, because

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Speaker 1: he knows he gets it and he knows everything, and

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Speaker 1: I was so happy. You know, we're I'm doing this

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Speaker 1: piece about ultra luxury cars and coach building and that

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Speaker 1: sort of thing. And Michael coincidentally but maybe not, has

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Speaker 1: this fabulous report coming out about exactly what we're talking

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Speaker 1: about now, which is, you know, companies developing experiences for

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Speaker 1: their owners like this Attilie that Matt just reference, but

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Speaker 1: in the bigger picture, you know, going ultra high end.

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Speaker 2: He has everybody doing that because I know Ferrari does

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Speaker 2: some of it too, right, Michael.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So we're talking about limited editions. Yeah, so yeah,

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Speaker 3: the fat it's a step up from the Daytona. They're

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Speaker 3: going to make seven one hundred and ninety nine of

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Speaker 3: them at three point six million euros apiece, so as

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Speaker 3: well as being a friend plastic car, it's hugely profitable

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Speaker 3: for them.

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Speaker 2: But even beyond even beyond that, right because remember I

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Speaker 2: talked to you in Benedetto. Vina was about to come

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Speaker 2: on and we were talking about even beyond the limited edition.

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Speaker 2: There's like something that only I don't know Lewis Hamilton

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Speaker 2: can get, or like jay Z and Beyonce where they say,

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Speaker 2: like Benedetto, I want a Ferrari with a stick shift,

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Speaker 2: and they don't make one even limited editions, but he

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Speaker 2: can do a one off. They call it like a

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Speaker 2: perto or something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean they certainly do bespoke cars as doing

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Speaker 3: most manufacturers now, even Portia with their Sonde vunch availability.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, it's available, but they don't talk to US

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Speaker 3: analysts much about it.

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Speaker 1: What's the kind of this report that is the report

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Speaker 1: out yet or it's launching tomorrow.

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Speaker 3: So it's on the terminal, so then the actual physical

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Speaker 3: reports will be out next week. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What is this sort of headline top note that you

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Speaker 1: guys are discovered or founder are really pushing with this

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Speaker 1: new research.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's just really looking at the valuation of some

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Speaker 3: of the car companies, and Ferrari in particular. It became

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Speaker 3: the most valuable European car company last year and you've

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Speaker 3: got to remember only produces folding thousand cars and it

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Speaker 3: was at one point worth double that of Volkstagen, which

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Speaker 3: produces almost ten million. And the key thing here it's

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Speaker 3: just really we don't see a huge amount of growth

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Speaker 3: in ultra luxury demand, but the way that these companies

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Speaker 3: are going to increase their profitability and probably their valuations

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Speaker 3: is by having more limited editions, more specials, more personalization,

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Speaker 3: and just use their pricing power to increase their margins

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Speaker 3: out to twenty and thirty.

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Speaker 1: And this solves the problem of basically needing to generate

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Speaker 1: more revenue or profits without actually making more cars, because

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Speaker 1: of course, if you're a high and automaker, you don't

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Speaker 1: you don't want a lot of cars out there, right.

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Speaker 3: Yes, scarcity is key and the ultimate aim for these

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Speaker 3: listed companies is to be valued like Hemez, and for

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Speaker 3: that you need to have about a forty five percent margin.

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Speaker 3: Ferrari's doing about thirty eight thirty nine percent, the same

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Speaker 3: as Lamborghini. I would say Rolls Royce is doing something similar,

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Speaker 3: So they can just squeeze that gap a little more.

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Speaker 3: Then they can enhance their valuations on the stock markets

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Speaker 3: even more.

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Speaker 2: By the way, unimportant side question, because I hear not

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Speaker 2: just you, but all of the executives and investors always

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Speaker 2: shooting for Airmez. Does any car maker just do a

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Speaker 2: joint venture with Arimez, Like, is there a Burkin Ferrari.

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Speaker 3: I'm sure that they're doing things together, but yeah, that

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Speaker 3: would be a good idea. I mean Ferrari's going down

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Speaker 3: its own fashion line now, so there's certainly collaborations to

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Speaker 3: be had.

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Speaker 1: You know what. And I will say parenthetically, I noticed

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Speaker 1: that and RMS Monaco cell they're selling an Hermez toolkit

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Speaker 1: owned by Fangio.

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Speaker 3: I saw that. I saw that so cool.

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Speaker 1: So I mean it's been done kind of in the past.

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Speaker 2: That's a good point. That's a good point. I just like,

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Speaker 2: because I was at Rolls Royce, I was looking at

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Speaker 2: all the different you know, things you could have done

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Speaker 2: in the interior, and the different leathers and the different

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Speaker 2: designs I saw. By the way, Hannah the Michael Fuchs

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Speaker 2: like his specific color and they have a piece of

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Speaker 2: his specific leather that no one else is allowed to use.

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Speaker 1: Besides my do that he's smart to do that.

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Speaker 2: But but I just you know, some of their interior

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Speaker 2: designs remind me of like what to some would be

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Speaker 2: really ugly, like nineteen seventies, you know, purse materials or

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Speaker 2: couch upholstery. And I love it. I love the look.

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Speaker 2: But I can't imagine why they wouldn't have one with

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Speaker 2: like the Ames you know, logo or you know, some

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Speaker 2: horsey theme. Really cool stuff at that rule I was

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Speaker 2: private office.

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Speaker 1: Michael, I want to ask you and Matt I want

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Speaker 1: to go back to the private office. But in this

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Speaker 1: report specifically, you kind of mentioned Ferrari and Lamborghini and

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Speaker 1: Rolls Royce as like doing very well in this area.

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Speaker 1: But then you also mentioned I'm very curious about Aston

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Speaker 1: Martin and Bentley because I know they also are sort

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Speaker 1: of trying to play in this arena. How are those

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Speaker 1: two brands positioning themselves and doing compared to like the leader,

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Speaker 1: which is probably Ferrari or maybe a Rolls Royce.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Aston Martin and Bentley both great brands. I love

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Speaker 3: Aston Martin's new cars. The issue they have is they

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Speaker 3: had high exposure to China. The Chinese market for ultra

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Speaker 3: luxury goods has fallen significantly along with the Italian names.

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Speaker 3: The English brands were selling eight nine thousand cars a

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Speaker 3: few years ago. That's dropped to four thousand we think

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Speaker 3: this year, and that makes a big difference. These are

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Speaker 3: highly profitable casts for them, so that's been an issue

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Speaker 3: with them also the huge investment and electrification, but particularly

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Speaker 3: for Ashton Martin, which doesn't have a big parent company,

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Speaker 3: it's been taking a lot of out of their cash

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Speaker 3: and resources. So yeah, that those two things have been

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Speaker 3: weighing on them.

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Speaker 2: I also love the new Aston Martin cars just so,

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Speaker 2: and I'm sure Hannah does too, So we're on the

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Speaker 2: same page, the same right, even though they're even though

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Speaker 2: they're stock, even though they're stock, plummets to almost nothing,

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Speaker 2: even though they're f one team like doesn't even compete

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Speaker 2: in races, like they don't even not only do they

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Speaker 2: not finish, they don't even qualify, and then like they're dead.

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Speaker 2: I saw somebody was telling me the other data hedge

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Speaker 2: fund that he was looking at Aston Martin dead at

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Speaker 2: seventy five cents and doesn't want to touch it with

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Speaker 2: a ten foot pole.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they've got a huge amount of debt. That's a problem.

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Speaker 3: They're not generating cash. But say the Valhalla, you know,

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Speaker 3: that's one car that's doing really well. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: a limited edition, sells about eight hundred thousand pounds and

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Speaker 3: they're going to make five hundred of them this year,

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Speaker 3: so that should improve their profitability. But unfortunately the Advantage

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Speaker 3: isn't doing as well as it should. The DBX isn't

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Speaker 3: the SUV, and the dB twelve now is is getting old.

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Speaker 3: And the Continental GT is a much better car.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back. This is hopper suit, don't go anywhere.

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Speaker 1: So I have this theory about Bentley that it's kind

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Speaker 1: of following the Porsche blueprint. We have seen a lot

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Speaker 1: of Porsia uh power move like manpower. Human power moved

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Speaker 1: to Bentley, including of course Frank Frank Wallacer ahead of

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Speaker 1: ahead of Bentley. But I see Bentley doing things that

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Speaker 1: Porsche did years ago. Are you seeing that too, Michael?

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Speaker 1: Is this year since that as Bentley is trying to

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Speaker 1: move up mentioned the Continental GT, we've got the super

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Speaker 1: sports that it's sort of climbing its way and also

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Speaker 1: following this blueprint that Porsche developed.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we can talk about limited edition and specials for

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Speaker 3: the ultra luxury names, but Porsche was the first in

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Speaker 3: terms of really taking advantage of high end derivatives. And

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Speaker 3: I always use the example of the Porsche nine to

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Speaker 3: eleven turbos. So it costs well, it's list price now

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Speaker 3: in Germany's about two hundred and seventy one thousand euros.

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Speaker 3: The base version is one hundred and thirty. Now we

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Speaker 3: all know that it doesn't cost another one hundred and

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Speaker 3: forty thousand euros to produce this car, and it probably

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Speaker 3: doesn't cost twenty five percent of that amount. So these

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Speaker 3: cars are hugely profitable. And that's what other car companies

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Speaker 3: have aimed to do, have higher end derivatives of their

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Speaker 3: main cars and sell them with huge margins. And they've

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Speaker 3: been very successful at that. Porsche and Bentley's doing the

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Speaker 3: same as you say, with Bentley Continental Speed.

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Speaker 2: By the way, I looked so a pair to not

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Speaker 2: the name of their one off program Ferrari, that was

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Speaker 2: like an open top La Ferrari that they had back

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Speaker 2: in the day. The Ferrari one off program is called

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Speaker 2: Tailor Made. They each have special names for their ultra

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Speaker 2: high end like Whew, Moliner, the well, the Lamborghini program

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Speaker 2: is called ad personam Rolls. Royce has just Bespoke, McLaren

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Speaker 2: has Special Operations Moliner. Of course, you're right, Uh, Hannah,

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Speaker 2: that's Bentley Aston Martin is Q. You're right about that.

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Speaker 2: And and Michael you mentioned Sondern, Yeah, yeah, Bugatti is

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Speaker 2: Surmezura for made to measure, Maserati has fewer Siri, Mercedes

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Speaker 2: bend manufacture like they all have these special like it's

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Speaker 2: beyond just exclusive manufacture, right, it's like another level higher.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and they're trying to expand expand these operations Porsche

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Speaker 3: in particular with sunder Bunch. If you want your own

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Speaker 3: personalized kaw especially made car, you have to wait two

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Speaker 3: or three years. So yeah, that that's something that they're

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Speaker 3: working on.

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Speaker 2: By the way, dude, that's as long as you wait

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Speaker 2: for a Singer. Why doesn't Portia just buy Singer.

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Speaker 3: I think they've got enough let your cars at the moment.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know if you weren't saying anything because you

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Speaker 2: know something that they're planning on buying Singer and you

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Speaker 2: don't want to like break an embargo or it's a

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Speaker 2: still a silly like idea.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's it's all there.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, it's there rumblings I've heard here.

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Speaker 1: Here's a question you you are headed to the Beijing

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Speaker 1: Auto Show soon, Michael, what is the appetite in China

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Speaker 1: for this type of extremely limited edition, extremely bespoke or

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Speaker 1: even coach built car. Is there appetite? Uh? There?

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Speaker 3: I think it's very difficult at the moment. So the

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Speaker 3: Chinese certainly don't want to openly display their wealth. And

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Speaker 3: then also you have punitive taxes on very expensive cars.

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Speaker 3: You have taris now on vehicles with engines over two

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Speaker 3: point five liters. So although these cars are very expensive,

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Speaker 3: they become very very expensive. So we don't know for

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Speaker 3: sure what the appetite is, but the appetite for just

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Speaker 3: generally ultra luxury cars is diminishing, and as I mentioned,

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Speaker 3: you know, demand for them is halved over the past

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Speaker 3: three or four years.

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Speaker 1: And we also know that Ferrari of course, is going

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Speaker 1: to be debuting their Luce electric car later this spring.

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Speaker 1: That seems to be a risk for the company, you know,

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Speaker 1: because it seems like core Ferrari buyers love that engine.

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Speaker 1: They love of course, Matt, are you making a face?

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Speaker 1: I'm just they love the V twelve. So my point

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Speaker 1: is they're risking they're risking losing this emotional appeal by

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Speaker 1: putting out an ev right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, where's the where's the romance in a battery, dude?

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Speaker 3: That's the problem.

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Speaker 2: That train has left the station. That horse is so

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Speaker 2: far out of the barn. Ferrari is a rolling computer.

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Speaker 2: People who want romance aren't buying new Ferraris.

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Speaker 1: I was waiting for it. I was watching you just

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Speaker 1: wind up. It's ready to go.

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Speaker 2: I means it's a ball of electronics. It's a chip

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Speaker 2: maker ceo running that car company.

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Speaker 1: That is not true. I recommend you drive a Ferrari

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Speaker 1: before you comment.

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Speaker 2: This is why they don't let me drive Ferrari's right,

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Speaker 2: because I mean, there's just nothing left in terms of

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Speaker 2: mechanical authenticity.

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Speaker 1: Have you been in the DoD Childry?

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Speaker 2: No? I have NOTO, No, I haven't.

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Speaker 1: I recommend you drive it.

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Speaker 2: Is the clutch heavy?

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Speaker 1: Back to me?

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Speaker 2: Is the clutch heavy in.

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Speaker 1: That one stop it stop, it doesn't matter, doesn't matter,

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Speaker 1: I won't hear it.

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Speaker 4: You'd get on see transmissions at some point, point, dude,

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Speaker 4: it's not that you know what even even Hannah, we've

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Speaker 4: been talking to Barry about a friend of his who

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Speaker 4: is driving.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a five seven five across the country

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Speaker 2: and it has the F one transmission. I don't mind

390
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Speaker 2: a cool automatic gearbox. I love the like agricultural heavy

391
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Speaker 2: clunk of the of the Lamborghini evented or it's great now.

392
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Speaker 2: But but what I what I do mind is the screens.

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Speaker 2: And if if I look at even these super high

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Speaker 2: end car makers Lamborghini, Rolls, Royce, I saw a Kunigzeg,

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Speaker 2: a five million dollar Kunegzeg at the car show the

396
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Speaker 2: other day, and it had these horribly tacky like Cassio

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Speaker 2: screens in it. And I was thinking, if I were

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Speaker 2: a super billionaire and I were going out to make

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Speaker 2: my own car, I would demand that it has physical

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Speaker 2: gauges with needles that really work. I mean, who wants

401
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Speaker 2: a Nintendo screen in this five million dollar car?

402
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Speaker 3: That's why you need a Bentley Continental GT because these

403
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Speaker 3: screens swivel. Yes, so you can have.

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Speaker 1: That is a sensible answer. And I would like the

405
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Speaker 1: record to show Matt Miller that last week you were

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Speaker 1: going to sell your entire home and home and garage

407
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Speaker 1: to get the Nissan Armada. Yes, and you're telling me

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Speaker 1: that a Ferrari doesn't have emotion, but you're in love

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Speaker 1: with the Armada.

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Speaker 2: But it's a very different use case, right, the Ferrari

411
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Speaker 2: you want as a rolling piece of art. You want

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Speaker 2: the Ferrari for the chink that it makes when you shift,

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Speaker 2: when you move the gated shifter.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: That's obviously not what I expect from a Nissan Armada

416
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Speaker 2: family hauler. It's not what I expect from a Kia

417
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Speaker 2: at EV nine by the way, this week, I'm driving

418
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Speaker 2: a ki At EV nine, and I think it is

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Speaker 2: a fantastic appliance. Everything works well, like a really expensive refrigerator.

420
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Speaker 2: But it's not something that I open the garage door

421
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Speaker 2: and just like salivate at and I can't wait to,

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Speaker 2: you know, move the three meals. And you know, I

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Speaker 2: don't even like electric seats. By the way, in a car,

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Speaker 2: that's like something I want as an enthusiast, like a weekend.

425
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Speaker 2: I want the lever under me so I can just

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Speaker 2: pick it up and slide it back with a clunk. Yeah,

427
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Speaker 2: I don't want any of that stuff. And I don't

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Speaker 2: know what.

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Speaker 3: Look.

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Speaker 2: I get why Ferrari makes this new fangled, you know,

431
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Speaker 2: high end tech like V six triple turbocharger, battery, hybrid stuff.

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Speaker 2: I get that car, but why not also make something

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Speaker 2: that's analog, that's true, that's real. I mean, Hannah, you're

434
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Speaker 2: the one who defines luxury by you know, the the

435
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 2: authenticity of the materials used. And I think you could

436
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 2: say the same thing about the transmission and the gauges

437
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 2: and the handbreak. For Christ's sake, I want a handbreak

438
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 2: that I can pull.

439
00:23:44,040 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: You could still pull a handbreak. It's just not on

440
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,280
Speaker 1: a long steel rod.

441
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 2: You just you know, Michael, what's your Michael, you're the guest.

442
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 2: We want to know your take, and I don't know.

443
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 1: You're free to jump in, feel free to just just.

444
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,199
Speaker 3: For you, Mats. So then you BMW M three and

445
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,120
Speaker 3: M five. The now a class of battery electric vehicle versions.

446
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,400
Speaker 3: They will have pedals and they will mimic gear changes,

447
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:08,439
Speaker 3: and I'm sure if you ask them that they're put

448
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 3: a pretend handbrake on there as well, so I know

449
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 3: it's not the same. If you speak to the designers,

450
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 3: they so enthusiastic and say, these electric cars now drive

451
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,879
Speaker 3: like you know, internal combustion engine, manual geared car. So

452
00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 3: they're trying to they're trying to make a difference.

453
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 2: I understand the need for those things. And there are

454
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 2: some electric cars that I really love. I mentioned the

455
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,040
Speaker 2: EV nine and it's more of a grocery getter. But

456
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:36,080
Speaker 2: I also I love my big pickup trucks with an

457
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 2: electric battery, like the Hummer, the GMC Hummer. But what's

458
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,360
Speaker 2: your take on this stuff? Because I know you love

459
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 2: You're not just a car analyst. You also love to drive,

460
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 2: right and I see you're always picking up the latest toy,

461
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,200
Speaker 2: but you must also appreciate like the old school stuff.

462
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 3: Yes, so you know I have it. Well, our family

463
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 3: has an electric BMWIX and it's a nice car. I

464
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 3: won't be replaced it with a fully electric car. I'm

465
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 3: going to get a plug in hybrid. But I have

466
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 3: a pustion nine to eight five point four liter in

467
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,240
Speaker 3: the garage and the Sun's just started coming out in London,

468
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 3: so I'm going to be taking it out this weekend

469
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 3: and it's going to put a massive smile on my face. So,

470
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 3: which is what soure? Many cars can do that.

471
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: And to get back to my point on this is

472
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: the electric car is a risk for Ferrari.

473
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 3: Ultimately it is, but it could be an opportunity. Depends

474
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 3: on where they price it, okay, and if they only

475
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:37,160
Speaker 3: accept consumer demand and they don't try and push it.

476
00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: Where When you say depending on how they price it,

477
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 1: are you saying they should make it like more on

478
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: the affordable side or more?

479
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 3: I think I think it should be their most expensive

480
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 3: full production model, so above the testa Rossa.

481
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,880
Speaker 1: And what's and what's your strategy behind that?

482
00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 3: Well, they've already expensed all the investment to go fully electric,

483
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 3: if they can price it at a position that gives

484
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:11,040
Speaker 3: them a similar margin to their combustion engine vehicles. And

485
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 3: I think if they price it at half a million

486
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 3: auros or above, then they could actually be margin a

487
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:22,719
Speaker 3: creative and because you don't have scale effects with luxury

488
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 3: carmakers that you do with volume car makers, it's not

489
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 3: really to do with the volume. It's all about the pricing. Obviously,

490
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 3: they need to sell you a good few hundred, but

491
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 3: I'm not saying they should sell thousands.

492
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: Okay, got it?

493
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 3: And then what we knew buyers you know who wouldn't

494
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 3: buy Ferrari unless it was fully electric?

495
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: Oh really?

496
00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 2: Really?

497
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 3: Yeah? Maybe yeah, probably in California.

498
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:51,439
Speaker 1: Dozensure California play in California. I'm shocked that you So

499
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: you're saying this car could bring conquest people into Ferrari.

500
00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 3: I'm shore certain luxury buyers wouldn't buy a V twelve.

501
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 2: Yeah that makes sense. I mean, there's a lot of

502
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,760
Speaker 2: people who want to buy a Ferrari because it signals

503
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: how wealthy they are. There are a lot of people

504
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: probably who want to buy a Ferrari because they like

505
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 2: the design and to whom the powertrain doesn't matter. There

506
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,080
Speaker 2: are a lot of enthusiasts who probably love the EV powertrain.

507
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 2: It is a I mean, some EV cars are super

508
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: fun to drive, They're fast, the torque is amazing. So

509
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 2: I can imagine all of those things attracting new buyers.

510
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 3: And they've suddenly concentrated on the interior design with the loache.

511
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 3: We haven't seen what we've seen bits of it.

512
00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: Safa sure design Apple chief.

513
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,160
Speaker 2: Oh it's John See.

514
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,919
Speaker 1: Now do you like it? Matt?

515
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that I don't like it. I'm just

516
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,160
Speaker 2: like you always say, they're different tools for different jobs, right,

517
00:27:51,280 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: I mean completely. I don't have a problem with Ferrari

518
00:27:55,960 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 2: making rolling computers at all. I appreciate these alliances, but

519
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,639
Speaker 2: I think they should also still, you know, stick to

520
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 2: their knitting. I do what they're famous for, you know,

521
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: make these fire breathing twelve cylinder manual transmission cars. And

522
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,440
Speaker 2: I think Rolls Royce also should you know. I want

523
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 2: to see the white enamel dials with the platinum needles,

524
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 2: like actual luxury rather than technology. And I think a

525
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,239
Speaker 2: lot of these car makers are just getting too far

526
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 2: away from it. I suspect because it's cheaper, Michael, I

527
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,439
Speaker 2: suspect they go to you know, electric buttons for handbrakes

528
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,239
Speaker 2: and screens rather than dials because it's cheaper to do.

529
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 2: Is that why Portia you know, destroyed the nine to eleven.

530
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 3: Possibly, but what you're seeing for the next generation of vehicles,

531
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,600
Speaker 3: they're starting to bring those buttons back. For sure.

532
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 2: I like I I I'm.

533
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: Kidding this morning.

534
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 2: I'm kidding, by the way. I love I love the

535
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: design of the nine nine two. Forever they had the

536
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: flared rear wheel wells and it and the front looked

537
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 2: a little bit pinched, and now they have, you know,

538
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: brought it to the front as well, So I think,

539
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's beautiful and obviously if I

540
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: drive it, I would I would pay a lot of

541
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 2: money to drive a nine to nine two. It's it's funny.

542
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:15,960
Speaker 2: I don't know if i'd rather have If they were

543
00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: offering me a free nine nine three or a free

544
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 2: nine nine two, I don't really know which one I

545
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 2: would take. I do, It's tough choice, but it would

546
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: have to be the career tee because I want, I

547
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,000
Speaker 2: do want to interface with the car more than just paddles.

548
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna stay on this Ferrari track for a

549
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: minute because the other thing I want to ask about

550
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: is you say the EV is an opportunity Ferrari, and

551
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: I think that's an interesting contrast to Lamborghini that has

552
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: basically said we're not going to make EV's for as

553
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: long as possible. They they've kind of reversed their their

554
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: target of making something purely electric, and now they're saying, no,

555
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: we're very happy to not make EV's. Is that risk too?

556
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 1: They seem to be sort of the polar opposite. One's

557
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: taking a risk making an EV, the others taking a

558
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: risking we're not going to make an EV. Is that

559
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: an accurate reading on that, Michael Well?

560
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 3: I think Lamborghini understands its customer base. So yes, hey,

561
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 3: luxury buyers don't really want particularly Lamborghini buyers don't want

562
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 3: a fully battery electric vehicle. They have hybrids. It's largely

563
00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 3: symbolic for Lamborghini, even for Ferrari. You know, ten to

564
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,600
Speaker 3: fourteen miles, but you've got to remember to recharge that

565
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 3: battery otherwise that's an expensive mistake after a couple of years.

566
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: I love the revert, but that's one of my favorite

567
00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: Rose Royce.

568
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,800
Speaker 3: Rose Royce last week doll back on their target to

569
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 3: become fully electric by the end of this decade, so

570
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 3: they too accept that the majority of their customers want

571
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:55,479
Speaker 3: a V twelve.

572
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, We will be right back. This is

573
00:30:58,520 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 1: hot pursuit.

574
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: So at the car show. There's a car show in

575
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 2: Manhattan right now at the Javit Center, and it's a

576
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: big retail event, you know, but I still like to

577
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: go because I love to see all these cars and

578
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 2: everything from the Nissans and the Kias, to the Fords

579
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 2: and the Cheves to the you know, they have Miller

580
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 2: or Manhattan Motor Cars. Is there Brian Miller's thing. And

581
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: there's some Lamborghini's too. The Temorarrio looks so cool and

582
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 2: I've never driven the Temorai or the rev Walto, but

583
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 2: I can't wait to get behind the wheel of those two.

584
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 2: Are those successful? Michael is Lamborghini doing well?

585
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 3: Lamborghini is doing so well. So in this introm yeah,

586
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five when they were changing over from the Hurricane,

587
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 3: the Euros sold almost eight thousand units. So initially there.

588
00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:00,479
Speaker 1: That's the worst one, dude, Come on, that's the best

589
00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,120
Speaker 1: CV on the market today. Yeah, I will say that

590
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 1: period for me. The Armada you can have the fine deal.

591
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,320
Speaker 2: Dude, you know what? So yeah, go on, so sorry.

592
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 3: It was doing super well without the Tamario. Now that's

593
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 3: introduced this year, their soves are going to go up

594
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 3: another twenty percent or so, so that's going to be

595
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 3: very successful. The river Alto is very successful, and the

596
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 3: Urus they just can't make enough of them. So Lamborghini

597
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 3: is doing extremely well.

598
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think they can make enough of the Urus.

599
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 1: One time I talk to Winkleman, I'm like, so another record,

600
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: another year of you know records.

601
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like okay, By the way, what do you

602
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 2: think Michael, you know, as an analyst, like of him

603
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: as an operator because he has had such an amazing career.

604
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 3: He's such a nice guy. He's so relaxed. Yeah, we

605
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 3: love him. I think he's the perfect head for a

606
00:32:58,480 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 3: luxury car business in the.

607
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,479
Speaker 2: Who do you rate the highest of all the auto

608
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:07,640
Speaker 2: execs around? Who's done? The Who's done? Who gets naplus?

609
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 3: Even though you say he's a tech guy, I think

610
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 3: has done a great job at Ferrari. Just look at

611
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 3: the chef price to evaluation.

612
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he's crushing. He's an awesome guy. He's an

613
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: awesome interview as well.

614
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:20,960
Speaker 3: It's a nice guy.

615
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he is. He is. And obviously the reason I

616
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 2: feel like I can pick on Ferrari and Portia is

617
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 2: because they're kings of the hill, right, It's I think

618
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 2: it's okay. I'm punching up, you know, but I want

619
00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: to ask your take also on the broader car industry,

620
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:40,320
Speaker 2: because I was talking with with with Jerry also totally

621
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 2: cool dude. We went and had after we went to

622
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 2: the private office at Rolls Royce, we went and had

623
00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: lunch in the rooftop terrace of the restoration Hardware, which

624
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: doesn't sound as cool as it is. I mean it's

625
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 2: really cool.

626
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: It is a really beautiful space.

627
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 2: You've been there.

628
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: I mean it's weird. It looks like a hotel.

629
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's amazing.

630
00:33:58,840 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: It's odd.

631
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 2: But he brought up a really interesting point because he's

632
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 2: had a great career starting off starting off with Renault

633
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 2: and Exactly and then Nissan, and so he worked before

634
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 2: he climbed the heights of the ultimate luxury company at

635
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 2: Rolls Royce, he worked in the sort of Oi POLLOI

636
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,040
Speaker 2: of every day Speaks French, yes, and lived in Tokyo.

637
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,399
Speaker 2: But he made a great point that this is one

638
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 2: of the few industries that has so many people with

639
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: so much passion and so much capital chasing like four

640
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:40,640
Speaker 2: and five percent margins. I mean, it's unbelievable if you

641
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: go away from Ferrari and Arimez, the razor thin margins

642
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 2: that the mass market car makers get, and yet we

643
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 2: all care so much about the products.

644
00:34:55,320 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's the key thing. Even in investment research

645
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,720
Speaker 3: equity research, if I put out, say report in a company,

646
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 3: you've got to show the products. Otherwise you're just won't

647
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 3: realize or understand how successful a particular car will be.

648
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:17,680
Speaker 3: So yeah, the product's all important. That's why attending the

649
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:19,839
Speaker 3: car shows are so important as well.

650
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 2: I wish the car shows were still what they once were, Hannah,

651
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:24,439
Speaker 2: me too.

652
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 1: I would like I would actually like to go to

653
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 1: the Beijing Show. I've never been to that one. Do

654
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: you what are you going to be focusing on when

655
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:35,800
Speaker 1: you're there? What's your bigs like? I want to see something.

656
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 3: So first of all, Volksfagen have a capital markets day,

657
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 3: so it's going to see how they're doing in China.

658
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 3: Their new China for China Strategy, We're going to see

659
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 3: their new products. So they've partnered with the likes of

660
00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 3: psych and they have better tech for their cars, a

661
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 3: better cost space. So it's ready to see if these

662
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,440
Speaker 3: cars are going to be successful against you know, the

663
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:05,840
Speaker 3: newer brands that are coming through in the region. But

664
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 3: also I was at Shanghai last year and what was

665
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,600
Speaker 3: interesting is how busy the stands of byd or Le

666
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 3: Motors or Jaomi are and how empty the Audi stand was.

667
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 3: BMW was quite busy. Porsche was very very busy, but

668
00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,200
Speaker 3: they're not selling too many cars over there. But yeah,

669
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,479
Speaker 3: just just to see the new products that are coming through,

670
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 3: because some of them look amazing. A lot of them

671
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 3: look like Porsches. They have all the bells and whistles

672
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:36,160
Speaker 3: and they cost twenty thousand dollars.

673
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 1: Wrong t door sports cars. Yeah, I say, I thought

674
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 1: the Chinese don't like.

675
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,840
Speaker 3: Coops Kayenne look alikes.

676
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 2: Are Chinese cars starting to look more like Porsche's or

677
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 2: is the Porsche starting to look more like a Chinese car?

678
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 3: Well, definitely, the Chinese cars are looking more like the

679
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 3: old Kayenne. If you look at the new Kayenne, it's

680
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:04,239
Speaker 3: certainly got some a Chinese field twitch. But I love

681
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,560
Speaker 3: the Nyukai and Electric. What a great car. Not to

682
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,360
Speaker 3: sixty and two point five seconds, that's just sheer power

683
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,120
Speaker 3: for a vehicle that weighs over three tons. Isn't that

684
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:17,439
Speaker 3: I haven't dridpen it yet?

685
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 2: Isn't that less meaningful these days? Michael? I mean I'll

686
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 2: never forget driving friends F three fifty five and it

687
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 2: was like zero to sixty and eight seconds. But I

688
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,040
Speaker 2: still would rather have that than something that's going zero

689
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:31,839
Speaker 2: to sixty and two.

690
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 3: I'd still like zero to sixty and two. Will have

691
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 3: the ability to do that as long as it can corner.

692
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,080
Speaker 2: By the way, Audi had also say no cars at

693
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 2: the New York International Auto Show. I mean they had

694
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 2: like a couple and a notably no RS five. Like

695
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 2: that car has made the biggest splash. It's the one

696
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:54,360
Speaker 2: everybody wants to see, and they don't even bring it

697
00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 2: to New York City, the most important city in the

698
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 2: whole world.

699
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 3: The problem is car shows as now and they cost

700
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 3: a little bit of money, so out more social media

701
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:08,319
Speaker 3: to get the message out.

702
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: They get a bigger splash, and they do have things.

703
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 1: The thing that COVID taught automakers in the industry is

704
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,719
Speaker 1: they don't have to go buy any weird schedule. They

705
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,360
Speaker 1: can create their own event and do their own launch

706
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 1: and do their own debut whenever they want, according to

707
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: their schedule. They don't have to feel like they need

708
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 1: to be at a car show anymore. You know, had

709
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 1: the biggest stand things coming.

710
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:33,480
Speaker 2: The biggest stand was Kia Hyundai Genesis. I mean they

711
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,880
Speaker 2: had so many I think they had more than the

712
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 2: Volkswagen group in terms of floor space. And then they

713
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: had really cool stuff there. It's the first time I've

714
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: seen the Ionic five and like gotten to get in

715
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 2: it and play around with it, the five N. And

716
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 2: then they had this Hyundai Boulder which looks like the

717
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 2: love child of a Ford Bronco and Genus, and a

718
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 2: GMC like Hummer or really like a an H two.

719
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 2: And then they had the Magma cars like they had

720
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:09,359
Speaker 2: the wing back, the shooting brake concept and like really

721
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 2: cool stuff. They're just the Koreans are knocking it out

722
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:13,240
Speaker 2: of the park.

723
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:15,920
Speaker 3: Well, best car show now.

724
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:17,799
Speaker 1: I was just gonna say the Koreans are the only

725
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,279
Speaker 1: ones there though, That's why it seems like they are.

726
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,320
Speaker 2: You know, what's the best Car Show now, so Hannah

727
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 2: will know this as well.

728
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,600
Speaker 3: But the Munich Car Show, so they have all their

729
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 3: stands in the middle of the city, historic, none of

730
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 3: these bland convention center facilities, and it's so nice and

731
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:41,320
Speaker 3: you can go throughout the city.

732
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: Yes, it's really the best. It's the best, and it's

733
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,560
Speaker 1: conceived in a modern, fresh way that eliminates being in

734
00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: a convention center walking on that carpet for eight hours

735
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,120
Speaker 1: a day. And we all used to do that, which

736
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: is I remember those days. It's very dehydrating.

737
00:39:57,200 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 2: I love those days though, you know, like the first

738
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 2: day it's a full suit and tie, the second day

739
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 2: you get to wear jeans, and the third day.

740
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:09,919
Speaker 1: Those executives, hey, I mean they're like caged animals back there.

741
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:13,200
Speaker 1: They truly hate it. I meant this inane the way

742
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:13,520
Speaker 1: they were.

743
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 2: Hannah, you know what I think. And I'd love to

744
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:17,759
Speaker 2: get your take on this to Michael before we got

745
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 2: to go stroning out of time. But Hannah and I

746
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 2: last year went to Lamar and to me, it was

747
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: like the Davos of carmakers, Like every major automotive executive

748
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,759
Speaker 2: was there, and now they're all participating as well, like

749
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 2: Ford is going to be and GM is going to

750
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 2: be in it, Hyundai is. Jose Munos was with me

751
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 2: the other day said Hundai is going to be in

752
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 2: WC as well. Like everyone's joining this, and the LAMA

753
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 2: seems to be like the main gathering point for all

754
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,560
Speaker 2: of them. If you want to as an analyst or

755
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 2: we as a journalist want to interview the biggest names

756
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 2: in automotive, like, that's the place to be.

757
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 3: I thought I had a good joke, but you two,

758
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 3: you have the best jokes.

759
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: You should come to Miami, Michael. Speaking of motorsport, We're

760
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:03,200
Speaker 1: going to be in Miami at the F one Race.

761
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 2: Wait, there's motorsport at the F one race.

762
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: Stop it, I can wow. Yeah, I mean it's it's

763
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: not Lemon because Matt, you're totally right. That is like

764
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,719
Speaker 1: the Davos of the car world in a way. But

765
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 1: motorsport in general, I think is possibly it's kind of

766
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: taking over some of the pie that auto shows used

767
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:25,279
Speaker 1: to have, which is there are places that you need

768
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 1: to be and be seen in.

769
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, everyone wants to be an F one. There's only

770
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 3: so many teams, so that's trickling.

771
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 2: Down, not max for staffing.

772
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 3: The rest of the motorsports.

773
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, the racers don't want to be in F one.

774
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: It's more for gamers don't want to be there, but

775
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: everyone else.

776
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 2: More for gamers, there's entire strategy. You got the pig,

777
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: you got hybrid strategy, got all these strategies. You can't

778
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 2: drive very fast, you know, so lame, so lame. You

779
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:57,799
Speaker 2: watch Motor GP, Michael, I don't. You should have WATCHEDEF one.

780
00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,959
Speaker 2: If you care about racing, you should watch Moto GP.

781
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 2: That's where you see actual like wheel to wheel. That's

782
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 2: where you see real battles and people who aren't concerned

783
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,359
Speaker 2: about like how much they've charged their iPhone, but it's

784
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,240
Speaker 2: like actually going as fast as they can ten tenths

785
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 2: every part of the track.

786
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 3: And do you do track days?

787
00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: Yeah? I do track days when whenever I can. Yeah,

788
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 2: I'm very slow.

789
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,880
Speaker 1: You know, better be saved than relative.

790
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 2: Dude. Thank you so much for joining us. We love

791
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: your research.

792
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,280
Speaker 1: We're so grateful you rely on it greatly.

793
00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, one hundred percent, So really appreciate your time.

794
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

795
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,400
Speaker 1: That does it for this week's show. Remember to follow

796
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 1: and subscribe to Hot Pursuit on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else.

797
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 1: You listen. You can also send us your comments. Email

798
00:42:46,719 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: us at hot Pursuit at bloomberg dot net, and you

799
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,040
Speaker 1: can check out my collins and stories on bloomberg dot

800
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 1: com and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also watch

801
00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:59,959
Speaker 1: Matt's TV show every morning on Bloomberg Tv. Go there

802
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: for car reviews, events and stories that you won't find

803
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 1: anywhere else. Find it all at bloomberg dot com. Slash

804
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: Pursuits slash Autos. I'm Hannah Elliott, along with Matt Miller,

805
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: will be in your podcast feed again next week