WEBVTT - Sarah LaFleur, Part One 0:00:03.360 --> 0:00:06.960 I'm Sam Edis and I'm Amy Nelson. Welcome to What's 0:00:06.960 --> 0:00:09.559 Her Story? With Sam and Amy. This is a show 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:15.400 about the world's most remarkable women, their professional and personal journeys. Together, 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.200 we'll hear from gold medalists, best selling authors, and leaders 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.840 of the world's most iconic brands. Listen every Thursday or 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.880 join the conversation anytime on Instagram at What's Her Story Podcast. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.479 Sarah le Fleur is the founder and CEO of M 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:39.680 M Lafleur, known for women's power casual work. Where when 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:42.959 you first started your career, Sarah, you did not intend 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:45.760 to be an entrepreneur. You went into finance and you 0:00:45.800 --> 0:00:49.640 were a management consultant. What was the moment that changed that? 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.920 The moment I changed that was really because I didn't 0:00:52.920 --> 0:00:55.280 know what else I was going to do with my career, 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.560 which very much at that point it felt like my life. Um, 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:00.720 I think the way many of us think about our 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:02.760 careers and our in our twenties. But Sam, the way 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:04.959 you just asked that question reminded me. When I was 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:07.679 working in management consulting, we had like a session on 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:12.559 entrepreneurship and there was a partner at the firm came 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.559 and said like, well, you know, do you think any 0:01:15.600 --> 0:01:20.320 of you are our entrepreneurs? And looked around the room 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:22.639 and I think one person out of thirty our class 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:25.960 was thirty people raised his hand and then he was like, well, 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:27.399 what do you think about the rest of you? And 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:29.200 he was like and someone else said, well, I don't know. 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:32.479 Maybe I'm an entrepreneur, maybe I'm not. And he said, well, 0:01:32.520 --> 0:01:34.480 if you're not sure about it, then you're definitely not 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.440 an entrepreneur, because an entrepreneur they know in their hearts 0:01:37.480 --> 0:01:39.720 that they were an entrepreneur. And I was like, well, 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.080 I guess I'm not an entrepreneur then, you know, like 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:46.520 desfinitely like I was, I was like, I definitely don't 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:49.640 feel it. And if anything, my mother being an entrepreneur, 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:54.520 I just saw how hard it was up close. You know, 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:59.800 how much it's spilled into our lives and her life 0:01:59.800 --> 0:02:02.280 for like, how much it affected her personally. You know 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:06.160 how difficult the people management side was, and how friends 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:10.160 that she worked with they had falling out and and 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:12.920 I would often see her like I always stay like 0:02:12.919 --> 0:02:15.000 I always I would I would see her sipping whiskey 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:17.000 by herself in the middle of the night when I 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:18.799 would come down for a glass of water. So like 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:20.600 I think, having it seen it up close, I was like, 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:23.600 this is not for me. And it was really only 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:28.919 when I left my last job having only been there 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:31.040 for four months, and so I like really kind of 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:36.240 like rushed out of there without a plan B and 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:38.359 you know, I didn't know what I was going to 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:40.320 do next with my life. That I was like, well, 0:02:40.400 --> 0:02:42.600 I've always had this idea, maybe I should work on it. 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.040 That had to be a tough period of time. What 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:47.320 was it like for you? I think I had been 0:02:47.320 --> 0:02:50.480 wandering as I think, you know, I mean, I I 0:02:50.520 --> 0:02:53.560 certainly felt that way in my late twenties, um I 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:57.200 had left consulting, I applied to business school, didn't get in. 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:00.799 I ended up taking this job at a private equity 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:05.720 firm that I really respected, and basically one week in 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.000 knew that, like this was not a place where I 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:10.480 was going to be successful. The culture was so different 0:03:10.560 --> 0:03:12.760 from what I was used to and what I knew 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:15.000 I was gonna you know, be happy in, and so 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:17.440 I felt like I gave it a good try, but 0:03:17.560 --> 0:03:22.160 I I was so like miserable doesn't even begin to 0:03:22.200 --> 0:03:24.320 describe it. Like I was getting you know, I had 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:27.959 nervous ticks. I would be like shaking in my seat. 0:03:28.080 --> 0:03:30.760 I would get you know, kind of anxiety attacks thinking 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:33.880 about having to go to work the next day, and 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.680 I really I ran out of there, so, you know, 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:39.840 I would say it was like one of the lowest 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:44.440 moments of my professional confidence, I mean lowest moments of 0:03:44.480 --> 0:03:48.160 confidence period. And that was the way that that was 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.960 really how MM started, you know, not not knowing what 0:03:51.080 --> 0:03:53.240 to do next with my life. It's really hard to 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.280 start a business. A lot of people think about it, 0:03:56.520 --> 0:04:00.200 like what were the first things that you actually tangibly did. 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.720 I kind of started with the formalities, which in retrospect 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:07.000 was somewhat silly, but I think it was important for 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.800 me to feel like I was committing to it. So 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:16.120 I um incorporated in Delaware and that somehow made it 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.200 seem real. It was La Fleur LLLS and that was 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.200 a surprisingly easy process and I was like, Okay, I'm 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.919 really doing this. And then I rented a tiny office space, 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:29.159 which I gave up two months later because I realized 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.479 I couldn't afford it. But it was when we work 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.720 only had two buildings at that point, and I rented 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:38.960 a small five dollar per month space and that actually 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:40.560 got me out of the house every day, So that 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:43.480 was a good thing. And that was actually the first 0:04:43.600 --> 0:04:48.440 kind of nearly logistical thing that I did. And then 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:52.360 I just started talking to anybody who I thought knew 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:57.479 anything remotely about fashion design. And I really did not 0:04:57.560 --> 0:05:00.359 know anybody in this world of fashion design, and you know, 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:02.800 just to kind of give you a sense of how 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:05.800 much I didn't know, you know, the only way I 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.800 could see myself getting connected to someone who worked in 0:05:08.800 --> 0:05:11.880 fashion design was through someone who had gone to school 0:05:11.920 --> 0:05:16.040 with who had gone on to interior design school at 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.240 Risdy And I was like, well, that's that's a little 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.960 bit closer to fashion design. Maybe she'll know someone. And 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:23.120 then she happened to know one person who went to 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:25.680 the fashion department and connected me with her, and so 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:27.960 she was like the first designer that I had actually 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:31.599 spoken with, and she ultimately was the one who introduced 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.279 me to a head hunter. Um. I knew that I 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:36.680 wanted a co founder from the get go. I wanted 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:40.520 someone with actual design expertise who had worked in the 0:05:40.560 --> 0:05:42.760 high end fashion world. That was really really important to 0:05:42.800 --> 0:05:46.800 me because I wanted the clothing that we made at 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:50.039 MM to really reflect the kind of clothes that you 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.960 would get at a high end fashion brand. And so 0:05:53.320 --> 0:05:55.160 a lot of people said, why don't you just kind 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:56.960 of why don't you just design it. Why don't you 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:00.760 just you know, add a sleeve to a a theory 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:05.240 dress or you know, take a I don't know, Georgio 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.080 Armani suit, but make it for cheaper. And I was like, no, no, no, 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.039 you're you're kind of missing the point, Like there's a 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.120 whole gap here in terms of what I'm looking for. 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:17.479 I'm looking for clothing that is not only beautiful. Of 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:19.320 course it has to be beautiful, but it has to 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:21.680 be machine washable and wrinkled resistant and has to be 0:06:21.760 --> 0:06:24.960 super comfortable. And I never want to have to be, 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.160 you know, pulling at the at the scenes to make 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:31.040 sure things are fitting. Well. I'm really trying to create 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:34.360 something different. And so ultimately was through this head hunter 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:36.960 that I met my co founder of Miaco. And she's 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.560 actually also Japanese. I'm half Japanese. And people think that, 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.080 you know, we we met through the japan connection, but 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.880 but we actually met in the meatpacking district, like you know, 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.839 that was we met through a headhunter. So that was 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.200 probably like the next tangible step that I took. How 0:06:50.200 --> 0:06:52.000 did you convince her to take a leap with someone 0:06:52.000 --> 0:06:54.600 who had never been in fashion before? She had had 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:58.520 this illustrious career, been designing for zac pose in she 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:01.040 was entrenched in the fashion war. Old was it a 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.040 pitch you had to give her or was she sold 0:07:03.120 --> 0:07:06.120 right away? I think she was curious right away, And 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:09.200 I think in retrospect, I really see, you know, it's 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.559 it's all about kind of where you are in your life. 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.760 And I think if I had pitched pitched it to 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.160 her any other time, she she very likely would have 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.760 said no. She this was when I initially started talking 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.160 to her. This is twenty eleven, so we were kind 0:07:24.160 --> 0:07:27.320 of coming out of the recession. But she saw a 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:31.880 lot of her colleagues, um in the fashion world get 0:07:31.920 --> 0:07:35.040 laid off. And she also saw a lot of you know, 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.560 these fashion brands that you respected go under, And I 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:42.720 think she was really she was going through her existential 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.560 her own existential crisis, saying like why should I be 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:49.000 in fashion? Like when everything out there has already been designed? 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:52.000 What is there to make? And I think she also 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:54.960 sensed the enormous waste that exists in the high and 0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.840 fashion world. You spend months and months putting together these 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:00.520 fashion shows that are you know, over and done in 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:03.320 five minutes, and most of those clothes that end up 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:05.520 on the runway are never to be seen again. And 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:07.840 so when I came to her and said, like, look, 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:12.640 there's this entire group of working women who think that 0:08:12.760 --> 0:08:15.400 everything out there right now doesn't meet their needs and 0:08:15.560 --> 0:08:17.840 and they want to be comfortable, and it's not like 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:19.880 they want to be fronty. You know, there's this like 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.080 I think that when people think of American working women, 0:08:23.280 --> 0:08:27.120 you know, immediately it's like, um, working girl like sneakers 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:30.480 and big shoulder jackets and like the last thing you 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:33.200 think is fashionable, right, like that that the American women, 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:37.600 working women like are typically not associated with style. And 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:39.760 I was like, I think there's a real opportunity to 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:44.959 change this, and um, are you interested? And she was like, yeah, okay, 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.520 I'm curious. And she always says to me, or she 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.160 said to me since then she was like, apparently I 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:53.319 said something along the lines of like, you know, I 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.160 don't know, I really don't know anything in fashion, but 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:59.720 I'm not stupid, so I'm confident that I will, I 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.360 will figure it out as I go along, and she 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.280 was like, okay, like why not, like why not take 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:09.200 a chance on you? And so that that is how 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:11.000 it started. But I think it had to do with 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.040 like where she was in her life and being kind 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.319 of really curious about what was there a different way 0:09:16.679 --> 0:09:19.400 to operate a fashion business? And then how did you 0:09:19.480 --> 0:09:23.360 fund the business? Very haphazardly is how I would say it. 0:09:23.520 --> 0:09:27.040 So I, um, the first thing I had done actually 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.000 talking about one of the first things we did. I 0:09:29.040 --> 0:09:31.720 grew up in Japan's I had a bank account in 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:33.959 in Japan that I had been putting some money away 0:09:33.960 --> 0:09:36.600 and and I called up my mother and I said, 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:40.440 I want you to, you know, help me transfer it 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:43.400 all into this business account. And she was like all 0:09:43.440 --> 0:09:47.360 and I was like yes, all, which I would not 0:09:47.480 --> 0:09:50.240 have the guts to do today. But I was twenty 0:09:50.280 --> 0:09:54.480 seven and you know, I didn't have kids, no mortgage, like, 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:57.040 no responsibilities. I just had to worry about me. So 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.080 I was like, let's just go all in. And I 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.319 had thirty six tho dollars saved up at that point, 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:04.559 so it went all in, put that into Loffler LLC. 0:10:04.760 --> 0:10:07.160 And then I asked my parents if they'd be willing 0:10:07.200 --> 0:10:10.439 to lend me the same amount, so um they very 0:10:10.520 --> 0:10:13.240 kindly said yes. So we started with seventy two dollars 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:16.079 in the bank account, and actually that got me through 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:20.360 the first year of of hiring Miaco because her rate 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.800 was ten thousand dollars to design a line of seven dresses. 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:27.680 I paid two thousand dollars to my head hunter because 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:29.800 he always took a twenty cut, and I always say 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:31.760 it's the best two thousand dollars I ever spent from 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:34.520 this business. And then, you know, I think we spent 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.200 like ten thousand dollars to buy the fabric. You know, 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.040 we were going to launch with the line of seven dresses. 0:10:39.160 --> 0:10:41.680 And one of the best piece of advice that I got, 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:44.559 and I still say this to um entrepreneurs who are 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:48.600 looking to manufacture things today, is don't hold inventory if 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.400 you can. You know, just just have a sample and 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:55.600 get orders against your sample, and then go and place 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:59.640 the order because you never know what's going to sell 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:02.160 or how much of it is going to sell, especially 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:03.959 in the early days, and you never want to be 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:06.160 stuck with that inventory. So what we did was we 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:08.920 bought the fabric, and we brought seven dresses and we 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:11.720 started doing these trunk shows and we took orders based 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.000 on that, and then we would place the order at 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:18.439 one of the factories in the garment district. We had 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.360 to beg to work with us. You know, it's just 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.480 really interesting. I thought like, if you if you were 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.320 willing to pay, anyone would take you on. But you know, 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:28.160 no factory wants to take you on because they see, 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.200 they see designers come and go, come and go all 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.280 the time, and they need consistent revenue. So I you know, 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.040 I said, I'll pay extra, so please please please take 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.599 white orders. And and and this this Korean gentleman agreed to 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:41.480 manufactually these dresses for us, and then we would we 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:43.400 would turn it around usually in two to three weeks 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:45.600 because we had the fabric. And then we would rent 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.439 a zip car remember those, and then drive around the 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.680 city and it would be me and my co founder, 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.439 my other co founder and a reb She would be 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:56.640 sitting in the passenger seat and we would drive around 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.440 and she would jump out and you know, drop off 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:01.360 the dress and then jumped back in the car again. 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.080 And then and then we would you know, finish our 0:12:03.120 --> 0:12:05.080 day of delivery so like that was that was really 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:07.520 the early days of how we got started. But seventy 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.120 thousand dollars actually got me through that kind of initial 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.480 phase and it was only after that that we began. 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:15.679 That's not even true the first five years. I think 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.440 I was kind of collecting small checks as we went along. 0:12:19.640 --> 0:12:24.120 I raised maybe four million in the first five years, 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:28.439 and it wasn't until six So yeah, five years into 0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:30.719 the business that we actually closed our Series A. And 0:12:30.800 --> 0:12:32.839 it took a really long time just to put a 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:34.360 pin in that because I think, you know, a lot 0:12:34.400 --> 0:12:37.319 of people who don't have experience with entrepreneurship, they read 0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:39.760 the news and they're like, oh, this company started and 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:41.559 they raised the seed round and then they raised the 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:43.240 Series A, and then they raised the Series B, and 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.400 people think there are these like discrete periods of time 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:51.400 between doing that. But for you, it sounds like it 0:12:51.520 --> 0:12:53.360 was different. I know for me it's been different. For Sam, 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:55.760 it's been different. But like you kind of just were 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:59.360 always kind of raising as you're growing. I know people 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:01.760 think I'm not. People will say to me, you're raising again, 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.400 and I'm kind of like, I never really stopped correct 0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.240 correct um and it was it was so funny because 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:10.679 I think, you know, there were so many directed consumer 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:12.880 brands that are that were cropping up at that time, 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:17.880 you know, Wrby, Parker, Binovos, Everlane, and they would always 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:20.880 announce these funding rounds, you know, like so and so 0:13:21.080 --> 0:13:25.559 closes X round, raises x million dollars. And I was like, 0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.120 what the hell am I doing wrong? Like because I 0:13:28.240 --> 0:13:31.280 was like I was, I had a quote unquote seed 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:36.400 round basically going for four years, so it was it 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:41.199 was incredibly messy. But I think like the piece of 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.520 advice that that I've got and I passed on is like, 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:48.440 first of all, all cash is green, and there's something 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.439 to be said about a lot of and you say 0:13:51.480 --> 0:13:53.600 it's friends and family, but like it I mean true. 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.360 I think maybe I have like three true friends and 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:58.920 family on the cap table. Everyone else is like the 0:13:59.040 --> 0:14:01.400 friend of a friend of a friend and a lot 0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.880 of that, a lot of that capital is really um. 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:08.480 In some ways, it's attractive because you know, they're they're 0:14:08.559 --> 0:14:13.360 supporters of you. They're not necessarily saying okay, like I'm 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:17.960 expecting a twenty x return within a certain time period. 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:21.000 Like in some ways, it's very flexible capital. So so 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.760 I got ample timed. I think actually like make mistakes 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:28.040 and also go slowly in a way that I think 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.000 when we got to our Series A, like we were 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.880 really late to raise our Series A and we were 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.080 told that as much, you know that our revenue was 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.960 kind of beyond what would people would typically consider a 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.160 Series A round. But you know, I think as a result, 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:46.040 I got to maintain more control of the business. I 0:14:46.080 --> 0:14:48.800 think I had better handle what we were doing. So yeah, 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:52.080 it's I think there's there isn't such a formula. And 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.080 I think this is especially true of female founded businesses. 0:14:55.280 --> 0:14:56.960 If you had to do it over again, would you 0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.760 have done the capital raising any differently? It's a really 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.480 great question. I don't And I have to start by saying, like, 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:04.800 I don't know how I could have done it differently. 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:08.880 Like I was the first time entrepreneur um, most investors 0:15:08.920 --> 0:15:13.440 didn't want to touch fashion with a ten foot poll um. 0:15:13.600 --> 0:15:16.960 I had a really difficult time convincing vcs that this 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:21.480 was a business worth backing UM. And it really wasn't 0:15:21.600 --> 0:15:25.880 until like the revenue started to grow and UM the 0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.880 trajectory was was obvious that that people were saying, Okay, 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:34.720 you know, I'm willing to take a chance. So also 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:37.120 I would say I was I was young, and I 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:39.880 was happy to live on a I mean happy is 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:41.800 maybe a strong word, but you know, I was paying 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:44.600 myself forty eight K a year UM, and then I 0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.640 was tutoring on the side, and I did that for 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:52.800 two years to make ends meet, and I couldn't do that. 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:56.560 Now I've got three small kids and a mortgage and 0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.440 I now, you know, I used to never go to 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.800 the doctor a doctor in my twenties, and now I 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:06.320 go like seemingly pretty regularly. So like it's just interesting. 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.720 Like now I would say I probably couldn't start a 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:15.440 business without proper funding. And now a quick break. Another 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:17.960 question about kind of the early days, as you really 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:21.000 grew through trunk shows, how did you find the people 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.760 to host the trunk shows? A lot of friends, a 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:25.960 lot of girlfriends who helped me, and then a lot 0:16:26.000 --> 0:16:30.480 of coworkers. Um. One of them, her name was Lucy 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.920 to Land. She was the CEO at Paperless post Um 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:37.840 and now she runs a VC. But she was a 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.840 girlfriend from college and I think you know, she also 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.440 ran a startup, so she just knew how important your 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.640 your friends were and your network is in helping initially 0:16:48.680 --> 0:16:51.280 get your business off the ground. Um. So she said, 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:53.640 you know, come post a trunk show in my house. 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.560 And her husband, I think, was at business school at 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.760 that time, so she invited a bunch of his business 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:03.360 old friends who remained some of our best customers to 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.960 this day, you know, almost ten years later. Um, we 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:09.600 did one in Washington, d C. Also hosted by like 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:13.720 three of my college friends, and yeah, it was very 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.879 much like friends coming out of the world works to 0:17:16.920 --> 0:17:19.600 support me. My very first customer was actually my first 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:22.199 one of my first bosses at beIN UM, the management 0:17:22.200 --> 0:17:25.680 consulting from I worked at. And also we you know, 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.520 I also talked to a lot of women in their 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.720 twenties were saying, I don't love my job. I'm trying 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.440 to find the thing I'm actually passionate about. And I say, 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.639 I totally understand that. You know, I've been there, but like, 0:17:38.359 --> 0:17:39.800 you know, do the best job that you can in 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.000 the job that you're currently in, because you know that's 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:44.920 going to lead to something else. And I have I've 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:47.879 really found that to be true. Um. You know that 0:17:48.240 --> 0:17:51.080 friends and colleagues from previous places have have really come 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:54.000 to help me start the business. I love that advice 0:17:54.040 --> 0:17:56.560 because I think that work ethic is so pivotal. We 0:17:56.640 --> 0:17:59.560 always remember someone's work ethic. You don't necessarily remember whether 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:01.359 they were the perfect fit for that job or how 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:05.040 their career trajectory looked, but you do remember their work ethic. 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.640 It's great advice for young people. You can shine anywhere, yeah, 0:18:08.880 --> 0:18:11.480 for sure. And even if you know, you know, you 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.880 kind of know, like, I'm not this is not really 0:18:13.960 --> 0:18:16.600 my thing. I'm not really like, this is not me 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:19.920 at my best. But I have found that like just 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:22.560 the connections that you make and hopefully you meet people 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:25.520 you genuinely like and admire, regardless of what your job 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:29.399 you're in, and those relationships have been so important to me, 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.359 just like personally but but also professionally and growing. Um, 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:35.200 how have your sales evolved? Is that something that still 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:37.440 keeps you up at night today or does it take 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.840 care of itself at this point right now we are 0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:44.760 probably online are and we've gone through so many phases. 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:48.280 You know, I would say brick and mortar or just 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:50.920 meeting our customers in person was always a really really 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:53.000 important part of our business. And so even though we 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.280 said we were directed consumer, we didn't necessarily mean that 0:18:56.320 --> 0:18:59.200 we were e commerce only. Like our our stores and 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:02.280 our we call them show rooms. We have one in 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:04.120 New York City and Brian Park and one in Washington, 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.440 D C. But we had had I think nine you know, 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.080 prior to to COVID, and unfortunately we had to close 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:16.000 them all during the pandemic. And then we opened Washington 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.280 d C. Up in the fall of which ended up 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:22.920 being kind of a catastrophe because we're located two blocks 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:27.119 from the White House and we couldn't even access our 0:19:27.200 --> 0:19:29.719 store for like six weeks around the insurrection. I mean, 0:19:29.800 --> 0:19:35.080 it was it was madness. Um. So um, it's been 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:39.200 a really really tough couple of years for brick and 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.880 mortar retail. But we did open up our Brian Park 0:19:41.920 --> 0:19:45.360 show room in fall of twenty one, and then um, 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.200 we're looking to open up three more of a zeer, 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:52.119 so we're we're really leaning back into in person um 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.720 retail stores. E Commerce is kind of the thing that 0:19:56.240 --> 0:19:59.040 kept us going, you know, even through the pandemic. And 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.320 we had this really really hard moment in the early 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.480 days of the pandemic when you know, we really didn't 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.400 understand what COVID was and there was this big decision point. 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:09.040 We had just closed all of our stores, we had 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:13.159 furloughed all of our retail employees, and we had to 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:15.600 make a decision about whether to keep the warehouse open. 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:17.840 And I knew that if we close the warehouse, our 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.240 sales would go to zero. You know, we literally wouldn't 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:21.760 be able to ship anything out. We would have to 0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:26.000 furload the entire company. Or we could keep the warehouse 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:29.399 going and at least bring any eCOM sales um And 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:31.600 we decided to go with the ladder and tried to 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.280 take as many precautions as we possibly could to keep 0:20:34.320 --> 0:20:37.720 our our warehouse team safe. You know that that those 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:39.719 were kind of like the real challenges that we were 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:41.960