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Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Some folks say life is hard,

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Speaker 1: don't do anything to make it any more difficult. One

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Speaker 1: of the things that I do know from experience because

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Speaker 1: I was raised by a single mom for a period

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Speaker 1: of time in my life. Life is particularly difficult for

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Speaker 1: a mama who is raising babies and is trying to

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Speaker 1: make ends meet. It's particularly hard when you might feel

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Speaker 1: lonely and you feel like you need somebody in your life.

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Speaker 1: The problem is is that there's not a lot of

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Speaker 1: folks to choose from out there. If you've got three

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Speaker 1: kids going to take on that burden with you, it's

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Speaker 1: a big ass. But loneliness abides in that world, and

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Speaker 1: it's hard. It's important to remember that you never know

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Speaker 1: who is going to enter your life at any point

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Speaker 1: in time. It could be a saint, or it could

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Speaker 1: be somebody that has very very bad intentions.

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Speaker 2: Angela Raau lived with her children in a Saint Louis suburb.

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Speaker 2: Her family became worried when they hadn't heard from her

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Speaker 2: and asked police to make a welfare check. Dowards at

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Speaker 2: her home were locked, so police climbed through a window.

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Speaker 2: Angela Roau was found dead, covered by blankets. She had

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Speaker 2: been shot four times. Her three young children were also shot,

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Speaker 2: their bodies left lined up on a bed.

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Speaker 1: Today, we're going to talk about the execution homicides of

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Speaker 1: Angela Rowe and her three children. Alexis a Korea and Tyrese.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body bags, single motherhood, Dave.

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Speaker 1: It's a tough thing, even under the best of circumstances,

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Speaker 1: to try to make ends meet and to take care

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Speaker 1: of them babies all the way to adulthood. And when

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Speaker 1: you've got kids that are arranging in age from ten

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Speaker 1: to six to five, what a thing to have to juggle,

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Speaker 1: What a dynamic to have to juggle to make sure

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Speaker 1: all those needs are being met.

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Speaker 3: When you said it's a big ask, I was thinking

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Speaker 3: along the same lines. This is a woman who has

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Speaker 3: three children, she's on her own. We have a crime

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Speaker 3: scene that actually even the medical examiner or the prosecutor

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Speaker 3: rather didn't know exactly when the murders occurred. So let's

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Speaker 3: start there. How is it possible that you have four people,

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Speaker 3: a mom and three children are murdered and you cannot

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Speaker 3: come with any certainty of what day or time they

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Speaker 3: were actually murdered.

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Speaker 1: You look to the science, You look to the science.

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Speaker 1: You look to the science, and sometimes there are so

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Speaker 1: many variables. And let's think about this. If you do

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Speaker 1: a scientific experiment, you can change the outcome of that

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Speaker 1: experiment by adjusting certain variables within the formatting of that experiment.

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Speaker 1: And maybe you're trying to I don't know, if you

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Speaker 1: want to get sinister about it. Maybe you're trying to

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Speaker 1: influence outcomes in a way that you want them to

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Speaker 1: be and you're not doing true science at that point

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Speaker 1: in time. You just kind of let the cards follow

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Speaker 1: where they may. However, what we do know is that

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Speaker 1: when it comes to things like interpretation of postmortem interval PMI,

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Speaker 1: there are any number of factors along the way that

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Speaker 1: are going to impact how bodies change after death. In

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Speaker 1: this particular case, in this brutal homicide involving this young

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Speaker 1: mother her and let's face it, this case, if you

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Speaker 1: were to qualify it numerically, they claim that if you

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Speaker 1: start to get up into the range of three and

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Speaker 1: then you go to four, you can technically begin to

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Speaker 1: use the term mass homicide. Now, let that sink in

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Speaker 1: just for a second. A mass homicide because it is

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Speaker 1: not to diminish other people that have lost loved ones

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Speaker 1: as a result of violence. But when you start to

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Speaker 1: rise above a single individual and you start to get

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Speaker 1: up into the three, the four, those counts like that.

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Speaker 1: If this had been say in an environment like a

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Speaker 1: public gathering place, as opposed to a home, you would

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Speaker 1: hear the media throwing around mass homicide. But this is

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Speaker 1: contained within a home, and containment within the home goes

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Speaker 1: to this idea of trying to measure how long someone

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Speaker 1: has been down. In a particular case, the bodies are

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Speaker 1: protected from view, so you don't have, say, as opposed

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Speaker 1: to a public place where a mass homicide will take place,

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Speaker 1: these bodies are all laying together, contained within a physical

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Speaker 1: structure that is in fact locked from the interior this home,

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Speaker 1: and you can't observe the bodies going through these physical changes.

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Speaker 1: You're essentially there to see what all that remains. And

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Speaker 1: in this case, which I find quite fascinating, this event

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Speaker 1: is actually occurring in November of two thousand and four.

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Speaker 1: These bodies of these four victims were not found until

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Speaker 1: December the third of two thousand and four, so you've

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Speaker 1: got this huge lag in time and you begin to

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Speaker 1: think about what was occurring relative to the environment in

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Speaker 1: which they were found, what was going on from a

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Speaker 1: decompositional perspective as to their placement, the internal factors that

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Speaker 1: are affecting the changes of the body, and also are

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Speaker 1: you losing evidence over a period of time, and so

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Speaker 1: those are all things that are considered when we're assessing

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Speaker 1: a scene. And sometimes it's that idea. The further you

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Speaker 1: move down that linear timeline, as you're heading out away

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Speaker 1: from that critical moment in which these people lost their lives,

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Speaker 1: everything is changing all the while, that dynamic is changing

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Speaker 1: all the while. So it has an impact as to

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Speaker 1: how you're going to assess the scene, and in this

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Speaker 1: particular case, it certainly did.

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Speaker 3: I think, Dave, you know, I'm looking at the actual

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Speaker 3: temperatures for November twenty second November twenty third, in that

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Speaker 3: time period, we're looking out of two thousand and four

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Speaker 3: in Saint Louis, Missouri, and I'm wondering, Joe, I thought,

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Speaker 3: and it's because of television. I know this that I thought.

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Speaker 3: You guys, you go up on the scene and you

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Speaker 3: make a few notes, and yeah, they based on stomach

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Speaker 3: contents and whatever. This person died at nine point fifty

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Speaker 3: eight pm three weeks ago on a Tuesday. I thought

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Speaker 3: that was something you guys did. But I find out now,

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Speaker 3: of course, having been together with you for so many cases,

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Speaker 3: that there is so much more involved. From a temperature standpoint.

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Speaker 3: We know that the bodies were not fresh. Is that

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Speaker 3: the right term?

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Speaker 1: No, it's a term we use. Actually, let me, I'll

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Speaker 1: go ahead and plainly stated in my own verbiage and

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Speaker 1: with many of my colleagues, we refer to the fresh dead. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: They have been dead for at least a little period

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Speaker 3: of time, and you have to figure out when this occurred.

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Speaker 3: And in this particular case, day and time really mean

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Speaker 3: a lot. I wonder when you get to a crime

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Speaker 3: scene like this, how do you move forward to find

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Speaker 3: the things you need? Forensically when you're looking at a

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Speaker 3: mom and three children. Now, look, the mom's an adult

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Speaker 3: and she has more wounds than the children. But how

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Speaker 3: do you maintain your composure when you're looking at children

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Speaker 3: a five year old, a six year old, and a

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Speaker 3: ten year old.

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Speaker 1: It's almost as if you stand there. First off, it's

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Speaker 1: very surreal. It's very surreal. It was always very surreal

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Speaker 1: for me. I can't speak to other investigators, all right,

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Speaker 1: but when you begin to try to take in what

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Speaker 1: you're observing relative to the victims, that part of your

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Speaker 1: humanity is looking at these children. We're talking about kids

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Speaker 1: that are ten and six and five that are laying

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Speaker 1: immediately adjacent to their mom's body. It's a surreal moment.

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Speaker 1: Many times it's kind of tried to say, you sold

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Speaker 1: your own and then you deal with all of that

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Speaker 1: in the aftermath. But I have found myself over the

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Speaker 1: years as a death investigator being very, very distracted when

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Speaker 1: you're on a case like this. If you're talking about

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Speaker 1: a singular adult, all right, and you're working the case,

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Speaker 1: it's very easy to kind of adjust your mindset to

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Speaker 1: being very clinical. But there's that one little thread of

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Speaker 1: humanity as you begin to look and you're trying to

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Speaker 1: take in everything that you're seeing, and it's almost as

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Speaker 1: if Dave, the angel of death, has walked through this

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Speaker 1: place and has reaped this grim harvest. Because it's hard

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Speaker 1: to set aside what you're witnessing and rely completely on

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Speaker 1: the science, and in this case, we certainly had to.

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Speaker 1: No scene is the same as the other ones. Keep

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Speaker 1: that in mind. As an investigator, you always have to

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Speaker 1: be clear headed. I don't like to say open minded.

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Speaker 1: There's an old phrase that I've heard many years ago says,

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Speaker 1: be where the man that claims to have an open mind,

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Speaker 1: there's a high probability his brains landed on the floor

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Speaker 1: some time ago. You have to remain objective and clear

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Speaker 1: minded when you walk into a scene, and certainly you

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Speaker 1: have to get past all of that, all of those

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Speaker 1: factors that would negatively influence your ability to assess the scene.

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Speaker 1: An assessment is key here because you know that when

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Speaker 1: you walk in to a scene like this and there

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Speaker 1: has been a lapse time, you've got your senses being affected.

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Speaker 1: There's the sense of smell, there is there visual changes,

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Speaker 1: So you've got the smell of decomposition in the air.

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Speaker 1: And that's by a factor of four. Let's keep that

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Speaker 1: in mind when you think about for each body that

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Speaker 1: is there, they're decomposing. Because they're proximity to one another,

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Speaker 1: they are decomposing at probably the same rate.

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Speaker 3: Does temperature in the room or in the building have

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Speaker 3: anything to do with the decomposition and the speed?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it does, it certainly does. It's like any other

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Speaker 1: organic material. If you want to preserve it, you cool

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Speaker 1: it down, or in circumstances you can freeze it. You know,

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Speaker 1: decomposition never fully stops, but you can retard its development

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Speaker 1: by application of cooler temperatures. So in this case, when

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Speaker 1: the investigators arrive at the scene and look, I've been

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Speaker 1: to Saint Louis over the years, many many times, and

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Speaker 1: in late November, yeah, it can get warm during that

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Speaker 1: period of time, but most of the time you need

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Speaker 1: a jacket. All right, it's going to and maybe a sweater.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be really cool. And they can have

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Speaker 1: days when it really really gets.

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Speaker 3: Cool, and in this particular case, the daytime high fifty

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Speaker 3: to fifty four.

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Speaker 1: And when they walked in the temperature setting, I'm saying

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Speaker 1: they You know, one of the things that you observe

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Speaker 1: at a crime scene is you want to look at

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Speaker 1: the thermostat. People don't think about that, but we do.

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Speaker 1: We actually check thermostats and houses to see, first off,

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Speaker 1: that the air is functioning, and then secondly to see

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Speaker 1: what the current temperature is because that's going to give

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Speaker 1: you an indication of what's referred to as an ambient

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Speaker 1: environmental temperature, and that is going to directly impact the

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Speaker 1: rate at which a body decomposes, and so we're faced

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Speaker 1: with four The interior temperature in this home, I think

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Speaker 1: was probably close to about fifty degrees. Now that is

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Speaker 1: not going to that is not going to slow decomposition

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Speaker 1: down to the point where it's non existent. Remembers. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen anyway. Even if bodies are frozen. There's still

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Speaker 1: going to be something going on, but it will slow it.

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Speaker 1: What they were able to assess at the scene with

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Speaker 1: these victims is that the bodies had actually gotten to

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Speaker 1: the point where riger mortis was no longer present. Now

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Speaker 1: that's key because we're not just talking about body temperature,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about rigidity. And if you're out past a

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Speaker 1: marker in time, that means that you're probably past that

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Speaker 1: thirty six hour mark. If bodies become what we refer

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Speaker 1: to as flacid, which means that if you grab the

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Speaker 1: forearm or the wrist of the deceased and you attempt

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Speaker 1: to manipulate the arm and it just kind of easily

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Speaker 1: is moved back and forward. You can move the shoulders

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Speaker 1: because riger really sets in and the shoulders very tightly.

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Speaker 1: You can bend the legs, at the knees and all

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Speaker 1: those sorts of things. That means that certain time has

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Speaker 1: elapsed in order to facilitate that all of the lactic

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Speaker 1: acid that had built up in the joints has now

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Speaker 1: begun to dissipate, and so you no longer have that rigidity.

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Speaker 1: You combine that with the fact that you can visually

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Speaker 1: see that there are color changes going on in the body,

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Speaker 1: which happens with decomposing bodies. You look for things that

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Speaker 1: they're refer to as marbling, skin slippage, all of these

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Speaker 1: other things that happen over a period of time.

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Speaker 3: Joe, when you say skin slippage, what exactly is that.

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Speaker 1: Well, with skin slippage the body bodies in particular, and

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Speaker 1: this would have been the case here the bodies that

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Speaker 1: top layer of skin, the epidermis, begins to peel, it

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Speaker 1: literally begins to peel. And so when you touch the body,

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Speaker 1: even with a gloved hand, and this is probably going

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Speaker 1: to set some people on edge when they hear this,

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Speaker 1: but if you touch a bare arm where they're skin slippage,

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Speaker 1: you wrap your hand, your gloved hand around the wrist

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Speaker 1: and you go to move the body so you can

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Speaker 1: either place in a bag or examine the body. The

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Speaker 1: skin will almost always kind of move. That epidermis will

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Speaker 1: move away, and you'll begin to see down into the dermis.

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Speaker 1: And when I say move, just imagine if you've ever

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Speaker 1: been sunburned and after a period of time, you begin

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Speaker 1: to peel. Okay, that's the epidermis coming loose. Well, it

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Speaker 1: happens as a normal biological process in decomposition, and again

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Speaker 1: that's another time marker. So you have bodies that begin

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Speaker 1: to have skin slippage. You have marbling, which occurs in decomposition,

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Speaker 1: which is and this is kind of an interesting manifestation

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Speaker 1: you have when we say marble. Just imagine the lines

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Speaker 1: that you see in a.

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Speaker 3: Block of marble.

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Speaker 1: Okay, those little dark lines that run through it. You'll

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Speaker 1: see this marbling where the blood that is contained in

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Speaker 1: those superficial vessels has begun to actually decompose within the vessels.

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Speaker 1: The blood decomposing in those vessels will actually begin to

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Speaker 1: make them stand out externally so that you can kind

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Speaker 1: of follow them. So you get these kind of curvilinear lines,

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Speaker 1: if you will, run through the body, and that's actually

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Speaker 1: another sign of decomposition. So all of these things are

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Speaker 1: markers along the way. In the case of this family

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Speaker 1: with Angela Rowe, she's been shot multiple times, her children

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Speaker 1: have been executed. Okay, you begin to try to take

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Speaker 1: the measure of what you're seeing and you understand that

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Speaker 1: this is not something as an investigator that happened recently,

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Speaker 1: that someone was able to have access to her. And

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Speaker 1: by the way, the house was locked from the interior

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Speaker 1: and there was an open window on the back of

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Speaker 1: the house. That whoever left that house that perpetrated this

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Speaker 1: crime exited through a window and they would not have

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Speaker 1: been seen necessarily walking out the front door. It was

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Speaker 1: done in stealth and probably under the cover of darkness.

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Speaker 1: More than likely, you have this instance where the bodies

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Speaker 1: are there and you're trying to understand the dynamic of

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Speaker 1: what's happened. And here's the chilling thing as an investigator,

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Speaker 1: that you've got a family that has been wiped out

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Speaker 1: in that moment, and all along the further you move

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Speaker 1: out of time, more evidence is being lost, the physical

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Speaker 1: changes are taking place, and nothing ever appears as it

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Speaker 1: did on the day that the event occurred. Dave, you know,

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Speaker 1: I hate the question why I think here though, it's

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Speaker 1: more important to try to understand who would want to

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Speaker 1: eradicate a mother and her three kids. And you know

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Speaker 1: this name arose in this case, Leonard Taylor, the mother's boyfriend,

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Speaker 1: and this thread that runs through Angela Rose life seems

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Speaker 1: to be to this man.

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Speaker 2: Leonard Taylor, was arrested in the deaths of Angelo Rowe

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Speaker 2: and her children, but the case became a he said,

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Speaker 2: she said situation. Taylor says he was in California when

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Speaker 2: they died. Taylor left Saint Louis on November twenty sixth.

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Speaker 2: He had plane tickets to California. The reservations for that

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Speaker 2: flight were made on November twenty fifth. But then there's

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Speaker 2: information coming from some of Taylor's family members saying he

286
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Speaker 2: confessed and saying that he was seen disposing of a

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Speaker 2: gun in a sewer near family member's home. Taylor repeatedly

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Speaker 2: told police that he did not kill his girlfriend and

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Speaker 2: her children.

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Speaker 3: Why I was asking you earlier about the temperature and

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Speaker 3: what it would have to do, you know, with decomposition,

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Speaker 3: because of when the when this family was found versus

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Speaker 3: when the crime occurred, when were they killed, and building

294
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Speaker 3: that timeline is what detectives have to do to make

295
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Speaker 3: sure where they can get the right person. All I

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Speaker 3: can think, Joe, from a forensic standpoint, there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of pressure on you to tell the detective where's that

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Speaker 3: window that this event happened. At the time. What was

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Speaker 3: Leonard Taylor doing? He was dating Angela Rowe. He had

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Speaker 3: a relationship with her in Saint Louis. But this man

301
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Speaker 3: also had a wife in California, another girlfriend in Kentucky,

302
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 3: and he was juggling these relationships. Leonard Taylor, according to

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Speaker 3: his brother, claimed that Angela Rowe was coming at him

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Speaker 3: with a knife, so he shot her and more than

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Speaker 3: once because he couldn't get her to stop. That's what

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Speaker 3: his brother told us about Leonard Taylor on the night

307
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Speaker 3: this happened. So to get right down to the bottom line,

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Speaker 3: Leonard Taylor was married to Debrin Williams in California. He

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Speaker 3: called his brother from Angela Rowe's place and and told

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Speaker 3: him that he had killed Angela. He said, I didn't

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Speaker 3: mean to kill her, but she came at me with

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Speaker 3: a knife and I couldn't get her off of me.

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Speaker 3: He says, I shot her two or three times.

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Speaker 1: I gotta ask were the ten year old, the six

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Speaker 1: year old and the five year old also coming at

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Speaker 1: him as well.

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Speaker 3: I'm wondering, Joe, what were they possibly doing other than

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Speaker 3: none of this makes sense from his standpoint. You got

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Speaker 3: to remember he's telling his brother the story that he

320
00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 3: thinks will make him look the least evil. But it's evil.

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Speaker 3: When you kill a mother and her children, you are

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Speaker 3: the definition of evil. And even if she was chasing

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Speaker 3: him with a knife and the children were all coming

324
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Speaker 3: at him with knives and his only defense was to

325
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Speaker 3: kill him, you'd have thought he would have had some wounds,

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Speaker 3: some injuries, but none.

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Speaker 1: Let me kind of frame this for you too. If

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Speaker 1: you think that's bad, let me throw I got another

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Speaker 1: one for you. When the examination was performed on these victims,

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Speaker 1: these victims of this massacre, it was determined that Angela,

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Speaker 1: the mother, had multiple gunshot wounds. So she's got four

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Speaker 1: gunshot wounes. She's got two to her left arm, one

333
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Speaker 1: to her chest, and I guess what people will refer

334
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Speaker 1: to as the coup de gras is a GSW two

335
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Speaker 1: her head, which they believe is what finished her off.

336
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Speaker 1: And that makes sense. You've got alexis, her ten year old,

337
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Speaker 1: and they've both sustained gunshot wounds to the head, and

338
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Speaker 1: then Tyrese, a five year old, has sustained a fatal

339
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Speaker 1: gunshot one to the head.

340
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Speaker 3: One thing to point out, Joe, is that ten year

341
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Speaker 3: old Alexis was shot twice in the head, six year

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Speaker 3: old Krea was shot twice in the head, and Tyrese,

343
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Speaker 3: the five year old little boy was shot once. Is

344
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Speaker 3: there any significance to that in terms of forensics when

345
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Speaker 3: you look at this, does it when you're looking at

346
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Speaker 3: why did it take two here? Two here in one here?

347
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Speaker 3: Or is it just that's the way it was?

348
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Speaker 1: No. I think probably the more substantive consideration we have

349
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Speaker 1: here is the fact that the forensics revealed that this

350
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Speaker 1: was either a thirty eight caliber revolver, remember I'm saying revolver,

351
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Speaker 1: or a three point fifty seven revolver. And when you

352
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:23,879
Speaker 1: look at this, and you know what a standard revolver

353
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 1: holds are six rounds. Just with Angela alone, she was

354
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Speaker 1: shot four times, and you've got Alexis who shot twice.

355
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Speaker 1: You've got a Krea who shot twice. You see in

356
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Speaker 1: a pattern here, Now we're at six, we're at eight rounds.

357
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Speaker 1: And then you get up to Tyrese, the five year old,

358
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Speaker 1: he shot one more, Dave, whoever did this? When it's

359
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: not like a semi automatic weapon where you've got a

360
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,720
Speaker 1: magazine that fits into the weapon people famously see these.

361
00:22:56,840 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 1: You've got the slide that you charge the weapon with

362
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,000
Speaker 1: and fire it, and maybe you've got fourteen rounds depending

363
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: upon the weapon, you know, and it's ejecting shells. That's

364
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: not what happens with a revolver. You've got six shots,

365
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:14,159
Speaker 1: so you have to literally open up the cylinder, dump

366
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: out the expended rounds, then purpose to reload the weapon

367
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,200
Speaker 1: and fire it. So that makes this all the more

368
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:27,440
Speaker 1: ghastly when you think about it. It worked many years

369
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: ago a case where three men were placed on a

370
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Speaker 1: sofa and they were all shot multiple times with the

371
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,640
Speaker 1: same weapon, and it was a revolver. And I'll never forget.

372
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: They were interlocked in their arms. They were forced by

373
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Speaker 1: a drug game to hold to interlock their arms at

374
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Speaker 1: the elbows. And those were reloads as well. And here's

375
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Speaker 1: the image that is kind of painted. Something horrible is happening.

376
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Speaker 1: If this is a thirty eight caliber or it's certainly

377
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 1: a three fifty seven, which is a magnum load, you

378
00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,360
Speaker 1: can't get past the sound. You got these three babies, Dave,

379
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,919
Speaker 1: that are listening to this. They're hearing the screams. The

380
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: mom has raised her arm, apparently because she's been shot

381
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:12,000
Speaker 1: twice in the arm. She has an awareness that this

382
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: is the end. She screams out. And you've got these

383
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: three babies that are bearing witness to this. And certainly,

384
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Speaker 1: if they were not necessarily eyewitnesses at the time, there

385
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,120
Speaker 1: were certainly earwitnesses. You can't escape the report of this

386
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:31,119
Speaker 1: weapon contained within this home. In there, the sound travels everywhere.

387
00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 3: During the time that he had to reload. Who was

388
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:35,200
Speaker 3: still alive?

389
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 1: That's a question that only the sweet Lord above has

390
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 1: the answer for, because we don't know. But we know that,

391
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: and that adds to the level of horror here. We

392
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: know that somebody had to have been alive to bear

393
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:55,240
Speaker 1: witness to this, because it appears that they were all

394
00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 1: shot with the same weapon. And as it turns out,

395
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:03,919
Speaker 1: the perpetrat in this case was witnessed throwing away a

396
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: revolver into sewer to get rid of it, and they

397
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 1: never That was one of the problems that the forensics

398
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 1: had is that they could never get their hands, i

399
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: think on this weapon to determine if it was a

400
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: thirty eight or three fifty seven. These rounds are akin

401
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: to one another in the sense of thirty eight. It

402
00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:28,560
Speaker 1: sounds counterintuitive. It's a point thirty eight caliber is smaller

403
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 1: than point three five seven. And when I say smaller,

404
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: the actual cartridge for the three fifty seven is bigger.

405
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,560
Speaker 1: Remember I said it's a magnum. You can actually take

406
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 1: a thirty eight caliber round and fire it out of

407
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: a three point fifty seven magnum revolver. But you cannot

408
00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:51,920
Speaker 1: do that with a three fifty seven magnum and place

409
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 1: it into a thirty eight caliber revolver and fire it

410
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: because cartridge is too big. But these rounds, when you're

411
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:02,160
Speaker 1: examining them in the ballistics lab, these rounds will come

412
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,960
Speaker 1: apart many times, and it's hard to determine exactly what

413
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: caliber it is. And if the rounds are deformed, it's

414
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: hard to kind of put your finger on that.

415
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 3: Now, Joe, you've been through a lot of crimes over

416
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 3: the years in terms of testifying and research, But when

417
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 3: you don't have the murder weapon as evidence, when you

418
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 3: don't have that, do you think sometimes we get lost

419
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 3: on trying to prove thirty eight three fifty seven versus

420
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 3: what the jury. We'll see, we don't have a gun,

421
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 3: we've got four dead people who shouldn't be dead, and

422
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 3: we've got one suspect to the crime and no others.

423
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,440
Speaker 3: Does law enforcement get wrapped up in the gun when

424
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 3: it doesn't mean that much to the jury, when you

425
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 3: don't have the weapon, How much does it mean to

426
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 3: the jury?

427
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 1: I think the jury's probably if you're saying that you're

428
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: dealing with a homicide. One of the things that prosecution

429
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 1: has to do is to try to explain to the

430
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 1: jury to as you had just mentioned, that you do

431
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,679
Speaker 1: have these four individuals that are dead at the hand

432
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 1: of the accused, and that wherever that weapon is he

433
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,159
Speaker 1: wielded it. So a lot of that you have to

434
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 1: combine the data that you do possess with the circumstantial

435
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,720
Speaker 1: evidence that they were able to develop along the way

436
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 1: to try to understand this horror show, because that's at

437
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: the end, that's what it all comes down to, and

438
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: it's a combination of all of the information. You go

439
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: to someone physically setting the thermostat in the house in

440
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: order to drop that temperature down, and there's another little

441
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,440
Speaker 1: piece to this. There were newspapers deposited in the front

442
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: yard that had not been being picked up, and that's

443
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 1: another thing that you look for. You know, you look

444
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: for stacked mail, You look for newspapers, that sort of

445
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: thing that are being collected. And know what, you don't

446
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: have evidence of an individual coming out of the home

447
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: collecting these things and then they disappearing from sight. That

448
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,879
Speaker 1: means that jumps outside of the norm. That's another circumstantial

449
00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: element to this. Then you think about the people that

450
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: are contained within the intimate circle. Certainly, make no bones

451
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,879
Speaker 1: about it. Mister Taylor, though he had a wife in

452
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: California and he's got a girlfriend in Kentucky, he's spending

453
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: time in this home. He's cohabitating here at least for

454
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 1: some period of time. Well, he vanishes off of the

455
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: face of the planet at this moment in time and

456
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,800
Speaker 1: beats feet for California, and you have to explain, well,

457
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: what was your motivation for leaving this home? And then, oh,

458
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: by the way, the four people that are domiciled there

459
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: with you at least part time all have multiple gunshot

460
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 1: ones and you're nowhere around and so you begin to

461
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,040
Speaker 1: pile on those circumstances and combine that with physical evidence,

462
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:51,719
Speaker 1: and you think about access and opportunity and motive, it

463
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: paints a very bleak picture for him, and, of course,

464
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: as it turns out, on February seventh, twenty twenty three,

465
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: Taylor was executed in Missouri State Penitentiary. I'm Joseph Scott

466
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,240
Speaker 1: Morgan and this is bodybacks