WEBVTT - Let’s Dish! The Evolution of Dinnerware 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:06.320 My name is Eva Longoria and I am my deraon 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:11.240 and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:13.960 our past and present through food. On every episode, we'll 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:17.160 talk about the history of some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:18.799 and beverages from our culture. 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:21.600 So make yourself at home, even brichel. 0:00:26.840 --> 0:00:28.680 Let me tell you some This next episode is a 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:33.280 very contentious point in our household because my husband and 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:34.919 I fight about this all the time that if I 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:38.440 buy one more dish, one more serving plate, one more 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:41.519 set of dishes, my. 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:42.559 Husband's going to divorce me. 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:48.480 Like I am obset with dinnerware and cops and platters 0:00:48.520 --> 0:00:51.920 and serving spoons, and I love to collect them from. 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:52.600 All over the world. 0:00:52.600 --> 0:00:54.279 And I go, I got this in China, and I 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:56.760 got this in Morocco, and I got this cup and 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:01.640 you know, a vintage store and Leone and Pari, you know, 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:06.360 and I just I'm obsessed, obsessed dinnerware. 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:08.480 So I have a bit of an addiction. I am 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.640 a whore. Do you get the whole set or do 0:01:11.680 --> 0:01:16.280 you get pieces? No guess? And now yeah, I mean 0:01:16.360 --> 0:01:17.399 yes and no, it depends. 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:18.880 I was in Budapest and that one of the most 0:01:18.920 --> 0:01:23.160 beautiful porcelain markets in the world, and so they make 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:24.840 these beautiful tea sets. So that one I was like, 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:27.000 I gotta get the set, and same thing and evil. 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:30.760 So the city of Limoges is like known for porcelain. 0:01:30.800 --> 0:01:32.480 It's just so beautiful. I was like, I gotta get 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:35.400 the set. I love champagne coops and usually vintage ones. 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.640 There's one at a flea market, and so I have 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.720 a big collection of like these mismatched champagne coops and 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:45.560 somewhere are tiny, like they used to drink very They 0:01:45.640 --> 0:01:49.080 must have been smaller humans back then, because like in 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.960 the Great Gatsby era, they're just like have these. 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.200 Beautiful designs on the outside. 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.200 I collect a lot of coffee cups, you know, and 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:02.200 again usually they're tiny because back then we didn't have 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:07.840 the mugs, right, it was different, much much different. 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:09.640 Do you do you collect dinnerware? 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:13.920 I do love dinnerware. I do, I do love. I 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:18.280 definitely don't collect like you do. Yeah, like at all, 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.120 but only because I think my husband would divorce me. 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.280 He'd be like, it's either me or the dinner. But 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:30.280 my dad had an obsession with dinnerware, and so my 0:02:30.560 --> 0:02:33.720 mom has like so much, and my parents used to 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:35.920 entertain all the time when I was growing up. It 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:38.280 is there is just something very beautiful about it. How 0:02:38.320 --> 0:02:41.919 did you start? How did how did this obsession start? 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:43.680 That's a good question. 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:45.480 I don't know, but I but you know, my aunt 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.360 was a caterer and so I had to work. 0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:50.000 For her company sometimes. 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:52.920 And so just like the way she presented food on 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:56.640 a table, mostly because you know, she was paid to 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.880 make it really beautiful, beautiful, that just stuck with me, 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:05.960 Like your table setting should be telling a story. And 0:03:06.000 --> 0:03:10.080 I think the story of a plate is so powerful 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:12.239 where it came from the history of Like if you 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:15.480 think of talavea from Mexico and you think of like 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.680 it's porcelain from China to France to Budapest. You know, 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.040 it's just I don't know. A plate isn't just serving food, 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:27.079 it's serving a story. It's such a good conversation starter. 0:03:27.160 --> 0:03:29.200 When people sit down they go, oh my god, this 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:30.919 is beautiful, and I go, oh my god, let me 0:03:30.960 --> 0:03:31.639 tell you where I got it. 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:33.000 Let me tell you. Yeah. 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.320 It's like an entryway into a cultural story, you know. 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:42.440 And it's funny because it's not just functional. When people 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:46.760 have their own plate. It's this personal boundary. It's like 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.560 this is mine and that one's yours. So there's a 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:55.040 history of like how it redefined hygiene and etiquette and identity. 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:58.840 And the rise of the individual. Yes, the rise of 0:03:58.880 --> 0:03:59.520 the individual. 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:02.320 You know, we talked about this in a previous episode 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:04.520 of like Louis the fourteenth having such an impact on 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.680 coursing out and stop having a buffet and everything at 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:12.960 once and eating with your hands. Like there's now there's cutlery, 0:04:13.080 --> 0:04:16.720 and now there's classic culture, and so for me, all 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:18.800 of it is so fascinating, but just the patterns and 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:22.320 how things are made, and anytime there's like a new 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.919 discovery of like whether somebody found a mummy, and I'm like, 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:27.960 is there a cup in there? 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.279 Like I want to see it. I want to see 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:32.400 did they put any dishes in there? 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:32.719 Yeah? 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:35.000 In there. There was an exhibit at. 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.120 The Getty or here at Latin, I can't remember, but like, 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.240 you know, everybody's looking at all this art and I'm 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.800 just searching for like where's the pottery, where's the dish? 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:44.360 What did they eat out of? What did they cook 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.680 out of? I'm always I'm always drawn to that more 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:47.320 than the painting. 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.000 I love you know, all of it. But I agree 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.760 when there's like or even like shards of pottery, it's like, 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:58.240 oh what was and then what was in the mummy stomachs? 0:04:58.360 --> 0:05:01.080 Like what were they eating? What was served on this? 0:05:01.240 --> 0:05:05.360 Like that stuff. I just love the stories. 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.479 Behind it and and like everything, right, like what we 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:09.360 do with this podcast. 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.840 It's all about food and storytelling. 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:16.480 But we haven't really talked about the plates, the dishes, 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:17.520 the cutlaw water. 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.039 I know, but what like what came first, the plate 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:25.120 or the bowl? That's like a question. I would have 0:05:25.200 --> 0:05:27.960 to think it was the bowl, right, It was definitely 0:05:28.000 --> 0:05:30.400 the bowl. Oh god ding ding. 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:32.120 I would think of the bowl just because it was 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.320 like a probably an evolution of a cup, right that 0:05:34.560 --> 0:05:38.599 like held water Like that was really our sustenance was 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:40.640 like to be able to drink water. 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.520 Yeah, and these are things like the plate is so ordinary, right, 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:45.800 we don't really think about it, but it. 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:47.679 Didn't even knew all the time. 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:52.000 Yeah, me too, And this is why this is why 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.200 we do this, because this is the stuff that keeps 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:54.960 us up at night. 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:56.040 Well, what came first? 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.240 The plate of the bowl, this is what keeps us 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:02.600 up at. 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:06.839 So but for thousands of years people ate from shared bowls, right, 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:11.839 so it's really different. Bolts are ancient, they're communal, they 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:16.400 hold liquids and grains and then and then plates evolved 0:06:16.480 --> 0:06:20.599 later from surfaces like bread or wood into symbols of 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:25.400 individual status and food separation. Right, So, going way, way 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:28.600 way back to the prehistoric era, like before ten thousand BC, 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.760 people use shells or gourds. 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:37.440 Or my birthday this year, I'm doing the Camino the Santiago. 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:42.400 Oh wow, the s pinhole of that pilgrimage to the 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:46.680 church is a big scallop shell. Yeah, so that's all 0:06:46.720 --> 0:06:50.040 that they would take is this clamshell to drink water 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:51.240 on the way. 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.040 That's so cool that you're doing that. That's I've been 0:06:54.080 --> 0:06:55.000 one to do that forever. 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:57.320 That's like, and you're going to you take this along 0:06:57.360 --> 0:06:59.120 the way and that's where you're going to be drinking from. 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:01.719 Yeah, you take it. You take your own. 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:04.520 You know, they seldom now, it's very it's very touristy. 0:07:04.960 --> 0:07:07.880 But you clip it onto your backpack and you just 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:08.560 have the shell. 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.080 And then they have places all along the Camino for 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:14.040 you to get water and you drink from your shell. 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.800 That's so beautiful. That's so beautiful. Right now I'm doing 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:18.360 the baby one. 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.120 I'm not doing like the thirty day, eight thousand kilometer one. 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:24.920 I'm doing like the five days. Might do the three day. 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:30.520 That's steps in and just being part of this pilgrimage, 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:32.840 being part of something that's so much bigger than you, 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:34.760 that people have done for so many years. 0:07:34.800 --> 0:07:38.880 And that's just that's simple of that Camino. Is this 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.640 boble the shell? Yeah, bowl shell up? 0:07:42.840 --> 0:07:46.360 Yeah, yeah, this this yeah, exactly the bullshell, that's the 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:51.239 same thing. But this idea, you know, we're this idea 0:07:51.240 --> 0:07:55.200 of the ceramic bowl. We see in places like China, 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:58.760 like the earliest ceramic bowls not just the shell or 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:02.480 the gourd seed in Japan and China and the Czech 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:07.320 Republic to serve foods that were boiled, not baked, and stews, 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.320 you know, dominated the diet. So this idea, when we 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:14.960 start seeing first ceramic bulls, it's when people started settling down. 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.040 So when we look at early pottery, we see the 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:22.600 story of humans settling and then having ceramic vessels meant 0:08:22.600 --> 0:08:26.160 that people were staying put and they were storing food 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:30.000 and they were also boiling and making stews, and they 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:34.440 were transforming grains and legomes in different ways, right in 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:37.320 a way that roasting and you know, putting it on 0:08:37.400 --> 0:08:41.000 a fire just sort of couldn't do. And so you 0:08:41.080 --> 0:08:44.439 were talking about when you were describing your beautiful coop 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:47.720 glasses that are just so beautiful. Some of this early 0:08:47.880 --> 0:08:53.240 ceramics is decorative. So early on especially there's this really 0:08:53.240 --> 0:08:58.640 interesting like Japanese ceramics called Jomu ceramics, is that it's ornate, 0:08:58.720 --> 0:09:01.600 like they would take ropes and press onto the clay. 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:06.440 So from early on there's this idea of function but 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:07.960 also of aesthetics. 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:19.440 So wait before we get started, because I know, I 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.640 feel like I always get confused with like what came 0:09:22.720 --> 0:09:25.000 purst the chicken or the egg, what came first? Pottery 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:29.319 versus porcelain versus stone, you know, stoneware, So what are 0:09:29.440 --> 0:09:31.880 the like I guess what came first? 0:09:31.880 --> 0:09:33.720 And how you make dinnerware? 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.160 So the early so the big picture is like you know, pottery, 0:09:38.200 --> 0:09:40.440 when we're talking about all of these things, the umbrella 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:44.920 different the umbrella, but there's different types. So the different 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:48.839 types of clays depending on what is available. So the 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:54.520 main three types are earthenware stoneware and porcelain, and they're 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:59.160 very different. So earthenware is fired at a low temperature. 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:01.520 So this is when we think of our like clay 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.679 like like our like like a barrel. 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:06.680 Right, it's it's fired at. 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:08.800 A low temperature, and low is still pretty hot, like 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:12.040 seventeen hundred to twenty one hundred degrees fahrenheit. 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:16.080 So puce it's fired out, still not baking. That's low. 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:19.720 You're noting, No, no, you're not. You're not baking it out. 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:24.040 That's low. So because it's low. For clay, that's low, 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:26.920 it's a little bit porous, and it needs to be 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:30.200 glazed in order to hold liquids. And so this is 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.480 more of like bar it's kind of like an earth tone. 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:37.520 And then we have stoneware that's higher, that's fired at 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.560 a higher temperature between twenty one ninety and twenty three 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.600 eighty degrees fahrenheit. And this is dense and super hard 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.400 and much more durable. It's it doesn't it holds liquids 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:53.359 without holding, without needing a glaze, and it's much more resistant. 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:57.120 And this we see for mogs, for baking dishes, for dinnerware. 0:10:57.240 --> 0:10:59.920 It's solid, it's kind of it's called stoneware because it's 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:05.319 solid like a like stone almost, and porcelain is even 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:09.280 though porcelain is translucent and it's beautiful and it's white 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:13.280 and it's thin, it's the most durable of all of it. 0:11:14.040 --> 0:11:17.840 This is fired super hot, you know, twenty three eighty 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:20.480 one to two hundred and twenty four to fifty five 0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:24.520 degrees fahrenheit. It's super hard, it's super dense, it's non porous, 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:28.280 it's white, it's smooth, it's so thin, it's almost translucent. 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:33.240 Sometimes it looks like paper thing, like it's so delicate, 0:11:33.440 --> 0:11:34.439 but it's super strong. 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:37.240 Seems it seems like it would be the most delicate one, 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:37.800 but it's not. 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:41.000 It's the strongest one. It's the strongest one. 0:11:41.000 --> 0:11:44.880 And this is like fine China tea sets like decorage, Like. 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:47.719 Why do we call it China? Are we going to 0:11:47.960 --> 0:11:48.760 call it China? 0:11:48.920 --> 0:11:53.640 Because porcelain came from China, originally came from China, So 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.760 this is why now we call it, you know, China. 0:11:56.840 --> 0:11:59.640 But I will say, will people wonder why the porcelain, 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.080 you know, pottery is the most expensive, And it's because 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:05.160 it's harder to work with. 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:09.640 I was amply my travels in Limo. 0:12:09.800 --> 0:12:12.160 You know, I'm obsessed with Limoje because they have the 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:15.000 best person in the world and there's this brand that 0:12:15.080 --> 0:12:17.800 I love, been a dog. They just have such a 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:20.960 beautiful They've been around since like eighteen sixty three and 0:12:21.800 --> 0:12:25.680 it's just this Le Meisson de ben adult and so 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:30.920 it's actually no since seventeen sixty eight. And this woman 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:34.280 discovered this like malleable type of white clay. 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:35.760 She just discovered this. 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:39.040 Malleable type of white clay and she decided to use 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:42.400 it to get grease spots from her household linens. And 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:47.280 then people realize like, oh, you know, it's actually this 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.800 ingredient that Chinese have been using for centuries that make porcelain. 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:55.320 And so the saga of Limoges porcelain like began and 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.480 in like seventeen seventies. 0:12:57.400 --> 0:12:59.959 And we have a whole section of porcelain coming up. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:02.520 I'm obsessed with I'm obsessed with it. 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.920 And then we're going to Lyon in June for searching 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:07.160 for France, and I'm like, I'm going to buy an 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:10.880 entire set of this. They have Louis the four, they 0:13:10.920 --> 0:13:13.079 have all the replicas of like this is what Louis. 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.520 This is the patterns from Louis the fourteenth. This was 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:18.600 the pattern that was served in seventeen eighty. 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:22.280 Like they have all the rep they really make them, 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:24.200 but like you could get the same pattern that they. 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:24.720 Used to use. 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:29.640 Those are the categories earthen stoneware, earthenware, stoneware, and porcelain. 0:13:29.960 --> 0:13:31.040 Those are the three things. 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.720 But I guess let's start at the beginning, because early 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:39.040 pottery tells us so much about settlement, about migration, about cooking. 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:43.960 I mean, all the archaeologists have uncovered so many things 0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:49.000 about human evolution because of pottery discoveries totally. 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:52.480 I mean, we could trace when people went from being 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:57.319 hunter gatherers to being in agricultural societies because they were 0:13:57.360 --> 0:14:00.120 sitting down, they were cooking, they were boiling, there were 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.200 eating and this is and they needed plates to cut 0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:05.319 meat on because it's much easier to do on a 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:08.160 flat service and a rounded one. So even just from 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.080 those those shards of plates that we see in museums, 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:16.000 it really tells us so much about civilization and going 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:19.160 back to ancient Mesopotamia, Egypt, China in this valley, like 0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:23.920 dinnerware played roles and rituals and festivals and funerary offerings. 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:28.120 Ancient Egyptians placed plates in their tombs. We see the 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:32.360 same thing in Mesoamerica. Mayan vessels for hot chocolate have 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.200 been found in funerary contexts and plates to hold them. 0:14:36.200 --> 0:14:40.240 A list like this is you know, the fact that 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:45.760 a plate could magically serve food forever in the afterlife 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.960 is something so profound I can. 0:14:48.920 --> 0:14:50.560 Do with the other what those as well? 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:54.680 We kind of push, Yeah, that's true, an alter assuming 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:58.840 our ancestors will be fed their favorite things like we 0:14:58.960 --> 0:14:59.920 put it in dinnerware. 0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:02.920 Yeah, that's true. It's the same thing. It's just the 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.760 modern version of it. And it's just it's so beautiful. 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.760 And I think this idea of the shift from utilitarian 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.200 two decorative. And even though some early pottery, like the 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.800 Jaman pottery in Japan, is really that some of the 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:22.080 oldest pottery is really kind of decorative, like they would 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:26.320 press rope on the clay to just make these interesting 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:30.600 surface areas. It wasn't until the ancient Greeks between the 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.040 seventh and fourth centuries BC that they started introducing this 0:15:34.280 --> 0:15:37.640 red figure and black figure pottery and this sort of 0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:42.200 revolutionized ceramic. They made plates and bulls and drinking cups, 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.880 and they adorned them with stories. So it was just 0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:50.600 this story like utilitarian storytelling. They would have scenes from mythology, 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:54.720 from daily life and just like you know, heroic epics, 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:59.280 and so they were tools for artistic expression. And we 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:03.640 actually see the names of the artists and you know, 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:07.880 just drawn onto these plates. And some of them are 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.920 so interesting. There are some Greek plates. I don't know 0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:13.640 if you've seen these. Spaghetty Villa here in Los Angeles 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.720 has them, that met in New York has them as well. 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:19.880 But there are these plates that have fish painted on it, 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.200 and they have this little indentation in the center, so 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:26.920 they held fish and then the little indentation held some. 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.840 Sort of sauce. So they were beautiful, but they were functional. 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.520 They told a story and so you could take your 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:34.360 fish and dip it into the sauce. 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:37.600 They their Greek. Those are Greek. 0:16:38.400 --> 0:16:42.600 And then the Romans made another shift because they started 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.840 mass producing plates by using molds. 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:48.760 So it was the beginning. 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:54.360 Of the shift towards this democratization of dinnerware that foreshadowed 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.880 the industrialisions by by like a really really long time. 0:16:58.360 --> 0:17:02.640 So they were doing glass, also making silver bowls and plates, 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:07.840 and the silver is interesting because they had stamped. 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.160 They had the weight. 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:14.600 Of the silver stamp onto the stamped onto the vessel. 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:17.440 This is like make and sometimes also with the maker's mark. 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:20.280 So this idea of oh, yeah, this is my silver 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:23.280 plate and it has the weight on it. 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.960 Right. Silver and gold obviously was used in dinnerware as well, 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.120 but that's not technically pottery, right. 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.679 That's not technically pottery, no, but it also shows you know, 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.240 there's just that there were different types depending on the 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:40.040 on the on the status, right, and the gold ones 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:41.800 were used more ceremonial. 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.560 Silver was more the ones that the that the elite 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:47.080 would would eat. 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:51.280 Right, and elite households that had individual plates and cups. 0:17:51.320 --> 0:17:53.879 But for the most part in this time and in 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:58.119 ancient Mesopotamia and Greece and Egypt, and they were still 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.120 eating communally shared bolds. 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:05.480 Regular like most people, regular people, and I would assume 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:08.120 in medieval Europe it was still this way. 0:18:08.240 --> 0:18:11.440 Yes, Like when did the shift happen from this communal 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.320 dining to individual place settings. 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.600 Yeah, it took it took a really really long time. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:21.719 So medieval Europe people still didn't use individual plates. They 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:25.760 would serve food on trenchers, which were like slices of 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.800 bread that absorb sauces, or they would have shared bowls 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:33.000 or you know, wooden boards, and then after the meal, 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.720 the bread would be eaten or given away to the poor, 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:41.240 and sort of dining was still communal, and it sort 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:46.040 of started shifting between the thirdteenth and fourteenth century when 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.480 we start seeing pewter. So there's still pottering among them, 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:53.399 but pewter among the wealthier classes. And pewter is an 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:58.159 alloy of tin, and it could be molded into beautiful. 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:01.760 Shapes, but it had lead, I know, so it had 0:19:01.840 --> 0:19:02.600 health risks. 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.159 But still among the super wealthy, they were like, whatever, 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:07.440 something's gonna kill me, right, So they were just they. 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:12.080 Were still it remained dominant material. They had short life spins. 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:15.520 They did, they did, they did. But there was a 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:19.240 shift porcelain fever. I still have porcelain fever. 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:23.480 So there was a big Europe went crazy for porcelain, 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:25.880 but it was China that developed it, right. 0:19:26.320 --> 0:19:30.840 China developed it, you know, beginning around the seventh eighth century, 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.840 that during the Tang dynasty. But yeah, Europe went sort 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:40.000 of completely cuckoo over over porcelain. So they developed it. 0:19:40.119 --> 0:19:42.760 They perfected it later between the fifteenth and eighteenth and 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:46.280 seventeenth centuries, and we talked about porcelain was just so 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:50.359 durable and so amazing. It started to it was the 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.879 opposite of Europe's heavy ceramics or metals. And by the 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:59.040 fifteenth and sixteenth century, no, it was across Europe. They 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:02.240 really just wan their hands on this porcelain. They competed 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.359 all over Europe. They competed to get it, and it 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:08.159 was transported along the Silk Road and later you know, 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:09.520 by sea. 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:10.960 And it was. 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:15.320 The kalin, which is that what it's called, the clay, 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:18.840 So the porcela is made of this refined clay called kalin. 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.280 Is it native to some place or can kaylin be 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:23.240 found anywhere? 0:20:23.800 --> 0:20:26.840 It can't be found anywhere. But for a very very 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:30.399 long time it was. It was only only China was 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.600 making it right, and so European alchemists were like, what 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:35.880 the hell is this? 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:36.840 Because it was. 0:20:37.000 --> 0:20:41.240 So durable, it's translucent, it doesn't scratch, it's stunningly beautiful. 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:45.120 So they were trying to replicate it like for many 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:48.200 you know, for hundreds of years, they would mix eggshells 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:51.520 and marble dust and mother of pearl and they would, 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.000 you know, buried underground and it was like this whole 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:56.199 they were trying to replicate this. They thought it was 0:20:56.320 --> 0:21:00.320 just magical because it was just so beautiful. And then 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:04.160 it wasn't until the early seventeenth century that Germany found 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:08.480 kalin deposits in Germany, that's the first time that they 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.080 found it. So that's paved the way for a porcelain 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:16.920 manufacturer called Masin Porcelain. France followed at Vincennes and then 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:21.240 sev and these were championed by people like Madame de Pompadour, 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:25.119 and they were making a different type of porcelain, that 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:29.240 soft paste porcelain, which doesn't have kalin, but it became 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.680 just legendary, the self porcelain. I'm obsessed with self porcelain 0:21:32.720 --> 0:21:37.240 because it's just it's so beautiful. It's like they have stories, 0:21:37.240 --> 0:21:40.120 they have little flowers and little cupid and then they're 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:44.159 known for their like pinks and blues and greens, and 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.679 it's just so beautiful gilding. It's just so elaborate. But 0:21:47.840 --> 0:21:52.520 they started making these coordinated dinner service a soup plate, 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:55.800 a fish plate, a dessert plate, charger plates like each 0:21:55.920 --> 0:21:58.199 plate for a specific. 0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:01.520 Course and this idea of owning. 0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:05.919 A full service of porcelain was not just functional, It 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:10.080 wasn't just about eating. It was this display of taste 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:13.520 and refinement. So we start seeing this idea of taste 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:18.600 go hand in hand with the beautiful table, right, So. 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.600 Then you know I'm obsessed with limoj So then France 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:27.120