1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: My name is Eva Longoria and I am my deraon 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores 3 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: our past and present through food. On every episode, we'll 4 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: talk about the history of some of our favorite dishes, ingredients, 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: and beverages from our culture. 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 2: So make yourself at home, even brichel. 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 3: Let me tell you some This next episode is a 8 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 3: very contentious point in our household because my husband and 9 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 3: I fight about this all the time that if I 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 3: buy one more dish, one more serving plate, one more 11 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 3: set of dishes, my. 12 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 2: Husband's going to divorce me. 13 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:48,480 Speaker 3: Like I am obset with dinnerware and cops and platters 14 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 3: and serving spoons, and I love to collect them from. 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 2: All over the world. 16 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:54,279 Speaker 3: And I go, I got this in China, and I 17 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 3: got this in Morocco, and I got this cup and 18 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 3: you know, a vintage store and Leone and Pari, you know, 19 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 3: and I just I'm obsessed, obsessed dinnerware. 20 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 2: So I have a bit of an addiction. I am 21 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 2: a whore. Do you get the whole set or do 22 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,280 Speaker 2: you get pieces? No guess? And now yeah, I mean 23 00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 2: yes and no, it depends. 24 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: I was in Budapest and that one of the most 25 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 3: beautiful porcelain markets in the world, and so they make 26 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:24,840 Speaker 3: these beautiful tea sets. So that one I was like, 27 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 3: I gotta get the set, and same thing and evil. 28 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 3: So the city of Limoges is like known for porcelain. 29 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 3: It's just so beautiful. I was like, I gotta get 30 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 3: the set. I love champagne coops and usually vintage ones. 31 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 3: There's one at a flea market, and so I have 32 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 3: a big collection of like these mismatched champagne coops and 33 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 3: somewhere are tiny, like they used to drink very They 34 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 3: must have been smaller humans back then, because like in 35 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 3: the Great Gatsby era, they're just like have these. 36 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 2: Beautiful designs on the outside. 37 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 3: I collect a lot of coffee cups, you know, and 38 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 3: again usually they're tiny because back then we didn't have 39 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 3: the mugs, right, it was different, much much different. 40 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 2: Do you do you collect dinnerware? 41 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 4: I do love dinnerware. I do, I do love. I 42 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:18,280 Speaker 4: definitely don't collect like you do. Yeah, like at all, 43 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 4: but only because I think my husband would divorce me. 44 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 4: He'd be like, it's either me or the dinner. But 45 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 4: my dad had an obsession with dinnerware, and so my 46 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 4: mom has like so much, and my parents used to 47 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 4: entertain all the time when I was growing up. It 48 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 4: is there is just something very beautiful about it. How 49 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 4: did you start? How did how did this obsession start? 50 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: That's a good question. 51 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 3: I don't know, but I but you know, my aunt 52 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 3: was a caterer and so I had to work. 53 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,000 Speaker 2: For her company sometimes. 54 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:52,920 Speaker 3: And so just like the way she presented food on 55 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 3: a table, mostly because you know, she was paid to 56 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 3: make it really beautiful, beautiful, that just stuck with me, 57 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 3: Like your table setting should be telling a story. And 58 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 3: I think the story of a plate is so powerful 59 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 3: where it came from the history of Like if you 60 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 3: think of talavea from Mexico and you think of like 61 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 3: it's porcelain from China to France to Budapest. You know, 62 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 3: it's just I don't know. A plate isn't just serving food, 63 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 3: it's serving a story. It's such a good conversation starter. 64 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 3: When people sit down they go, oh my god, this 65 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 3: is beautiful, and I go, oh my god, let me 66 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 3: tell you where I got it. 67 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 2: Let me tell you. Yeah. 68 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 3: It's like an entryway into a cultural story, you know. 69 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 3: And it's funny because it's not just functional. When people 70 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,760 Speaker 3: have their own plate. It's this personal boundary. It's like 71 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 3: this is mine and that one's yours. So there's a 72 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 3: history of like how it redefined hygiene and etiquette and identity. 73 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: And the rise of the individual. Yes, the rise of 74 00:03:58,880 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 2: the individual. 75 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 3: You know, we talked about this in a previous episode 76 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 3: of like Louis the fourteenth having such an impact on 77 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 3: coursing out and stop having a buffet and everything at 78 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 3: once and eating with your hands. Like there's now there's cutlery, 79 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 3: and now there's classic culture, and so for me, all 80 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 3: of it is so fascinating, but just the patterns and 81 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 3: how things are made, and anytime there's like a new 82 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 3: discovery of like whether somebody found a mummy, and I'm like, 83 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: is there a cup in there? 84 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 2: Like I want to see it. I want to see 85 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: did they put any dishes in there? 86 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 4: Yeah? 87 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: In there. There was an exhibit at. 88 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 3: The Getty or here at Latin, I can't remember, but like, 89 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 3: you know, everybody's looking at all this art and I'm 90 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 3: just searching for like where's the pottery, where's the dish? 91 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 3: What did they eat out of? What did they cook 92 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 3: out of? I'm always I'm always drawn to that more 93 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:47,320 Speaker 3: than the painting. 94 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 4: I love you know, all of it. But I agree 95 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 4: when there's like or even like shards of pottery, it's like, 96 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 4: oh what was and then what was in the mummy stomachs? 97 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 4: Like what were they eating? What was served on this? 98 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 2: Like that stuff. I just love the stories. 99 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:07,479 Speaker 4: Behind it and and like everything, right, like what we 100 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 4: do with this podcast. 101 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 2: It's all about food and storytelling. 102 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,480 Speaker 4: But we haven't really talked about the plates, the dishes, 103 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 4: the cutlaw water. 104 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:21,039 Speaker 2: I know, but what like what came first, the plate 105 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 2: or the bowl? That's like a question. I would have 106 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 2: to think it was the bowl, right, It was definitely 107 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 2: the bowl. Oh god ding ding. 108 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 3: I would think of the bowl just because it was 109 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 3: like a probably an evolution of a cup, right that 110 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:38,599 Speaker 3: like held water Like that was really our sustenance was 111 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 3: like to be able to drink water. 112 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, and these are things like the plate is so ordinary, right, 113 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 4: we don't really think about it, but it. 114 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,679 Speaker 2: Didn't even knew all the time. 115 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, me too, And this is why this is why 116 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 4: we do this, because this is the stuff that keeps 117 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 4: us up at night. 118 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 2: Well, what came first? 119 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 3: The plate of the bowl, this is what keeps us 120 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 3: up at. 121 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 4: So but for thousands of years people ate from shared bowls, right, 122 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 4: so it's really different. Bolts are ancient, they're communal, they 123 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 4: hold liquids and grains and then and then plates evolved 124 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 4: later from surfaces like bread or wood into symbols of 125 00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 4: individual status and food separation. Right, So, going way, way 126 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 4: way back to the prehistoric era, like before ten thousand BC, 127 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 4: people use shells or gourds. 128 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 2: Or my birthday this year, I'm doing the Camino the Santiago. 129 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 3: Oh wow, the s pinhole of that pilgrimage to the 130 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 3: church is a big scallop shell. Yeah, so that's all 131 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 3: that they would take is this clamshell to drink water 132 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 3: on the way. 133 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 2: That's so cool that you're doing that. That's I've been 134 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: one to do that forever. 135 00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 4: That's like, and you're going to you take this along 136 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 4: the way and that's where you're going to be drinking from. 137 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, you take it. You take your own. 138 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 3: You know, they seldom now, it's very it's very touristy. 139 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 3: But you clip it onto your backpack and you just 140 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 3: have the shell. 141 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 2: And then they have places all along the Camino for 142 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 2: you to get water and you drink from your shell. 143 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: That's so beautiful. That's so beautiful. Right now I'm doing 144 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: the baby one. 145 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 3: I'm not doing like the thirty day, eight thousand kilometer one. 146 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 2: I'm doing like the five days. Might do the three day. 147 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 4: That's steps in and just being part of this pilgrimage, 148 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 4: being part of something that's so much bigger than you, 149 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 4: that people have done for so many years. 150 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: And that's just that's simple of that Camino. Is this 151 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 3: boble the shell? Yeah, bowl shell up? 152 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, this this yeah, exactly the bullshell, that's the 153 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,239 Speaker 4: same thing. But this idea, you know, we're this idea 154 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 4: of the ceramic bowl. We see in places like China, 155 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 4: like the earliest ceramic bowls not just the shell or 156 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 4: the gourd seed in Japan and China and the Czech 157 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 4: Republic to serve foods that were boiled, not baked, and stews, 158 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 4: you know, dominated the diet. So this idea, when we 159 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 4: start seeing first ceramic bulls, it's when people started settling down. 160 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,040 Speaker 4: So when we look at early pottery, we see the 161 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 4: story of humans settling and then having ceramic vessels meant 162 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 4: that people were staying put and they were storing food 163 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 4: and they were also boiling and making stews, and they 164 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 4: were transforming grains and legomes in different ways, right in 165 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 4: a way that roasting and you know, putting it on 166 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 4: a fire just sort of couldn't do. And so you 167 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 4: were talking about when you were describing your beautiful coop 168 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 4: glasses that are just so beautiful. Some of this early 169 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 4: ceramics is decorative. So early on especially there's this really 170 00:08:53,240 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 4: interesting like Japanese ceramics called Jomu ceramics, is that it's ornate, 171 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 4: like they would take ropes and press onto the clay. 172 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 4: So from early on there's this idea of function but 173 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:07,960 Speaker 4: also of aesthetics. 174 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 3: So wait before we get started, because I know, I 175 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 3: feel like I always get confused with like what came 176 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 3: purst the chicken or the egg, what came first? Pottery 177 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,319 Speaker 3: versus porcelain versus stone, you know, stoneware, So what are 178 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 3: the like I guess what came first? 179 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 2: And how you make dinnerware? 180 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 4: So the early so the big picture is like you know, pottery, 181 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 4: when we're talking about all of these things, the umbrella 182 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 4: different the umbrella, but there's different types. So the different 183 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 4: types of clays depending on what is available. So the 184 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 4: main three types are earthenware stoneware and porcelain, and they're 185 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 4: very different. So earthenware is fired at a low temperature. 186 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 4: So this is when we think of our like clay 187 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 4: like like our like like a barrel. 188 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 2: Right, it's it's fired at. 189 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 4: A low temperature, and low is still pretty hot, like 190 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 4: seventeen hundred to twenty one hundred degrees fahrenheit. 191 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 2: So puce it's fired out, still not baking. That's low. 192 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: You're noting, No, no, you're not. You're not baking it out. 193 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 4: That's low. So because it's low. For clay, that's low, 194 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 4: it's a little bit porous, and it needs to be 195 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 4: glazed in order to hold liquids. And so this is 196 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 4: more of like bar it's kind of like an earth tone. 197 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 4: And then we have stoneware that's higher, that's fired at 198 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 4: a higher temperature between twenty one ninety and twenty three 199 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 4: eighty degrees fahrenheit. And this is dense and super hard 200 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 4: and much more durable. It's it doesn't it holds liquids 201 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:53,359 Speaker 4: without holding, without needing a glaze, and it's much more resistant. 202 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 4: And this we see for mogs, for baking dishes, for dinnerware. 203 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 4: It's solid, it's kind of it's called stoneware because it's 204 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 4: solid like a like stone almost, and porcelain is even 205 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 4: though porcelain is translucent and it's beautiful and it's white 206 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 4: and it's thin, it's the most durable of all of it. 207 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 4: This is fired super hot, you know, twenty three eighty 208 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 4: one to two hundred and twenty four to fifty five 209 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 4: degrees fahrenheit. It's super hard, it's super dense, it's non porous, 210 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 4: it's white, it's smooth, it's so thin, it's almost translucent. 211 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 4: Sometimes it looks like paper thing, like it's so delicate, 212 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 4: but it's super strong. 213 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 3: Seems it seems like it would be the most delicate one, 214 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 3: but it's not. 215 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 2: It's the strongest one. It's the strongest one. 216 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:44,880 Speaker 4: And this is like fine China tea sets like decorage, Like. 217 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,719 Speaker 2: Why do we call it China? Are we going to 218 00:11:47,960 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 2: call it China? 219 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 4: Because porcelain came from China, originally came from China, So 220 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 4: this is why now we call it, you know, China. 221 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 3: But I will say, will people wonder why the porcelain, 222 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 3: you know, pottery is the most expensive, And it's because 223 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 3: it's harder to work with. 224 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 2: I was amply my travels in Limo. 225 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 3: You know, I'm obsessed with Limoje because they have the 226 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 3: best person in the world and there's this brand that 227 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 3: I love, been a dog. They just have such a 228 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 3: beautiful They've been around since like eighteen sixty three and 229 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 3: it's just this Le Meisson de ben adult and so 230 00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 3: it's actually no since seventeen sixty eight. And this woman 231 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 3: discovered this like malleable type of white clay. 232 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 2: She just discovered this. 233 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 3: Malleable type of white clay and she decided to use 234 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 3: it to get grease spots from her household linens. And 235 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: then people realize like, oh, you know, it's actually this 236 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 3: ingredient that Chinese have been using for centuries that make porcelain. 237 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 3: And so the saga of Limoges porcelain like began and 238 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,480 Speaker 3: in like seventeen seventies. 239 00:12:57,400 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 4: And we have a whole section of porcelain coming up. 240 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 4: I'm obsessed with I'm obsessed with it. 241 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 3: And then we're going to Lyon in June for searching 242 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 3: for France, and I'm like, I'm going to buy an 243 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 3: entire set of this. They have Louis the four, they 244 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,079 Speaker 3: have all the replicas of like this is what Louis. 245 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: This is the patterns from Louis the fourteenth. This was 246 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:18,600 Speaker 2: the pattern that was served in seventeen eighty. 247 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 3: Like they have all the rep they really make them, 248 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 3: but like you could get the same pattern that they. 249 00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 2: Used to use. 250 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 3: Those are the categories earthen stoneware, earthenware, stoneware, and porcelain. 251 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 2: Those are the three things. 252 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 3: But I guess let's start at the beginning, because early 253 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 3: pottery tells us so much about settlement, about migration, about cooking. 254 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 3: I mean, all the archaeologists have uncovered so many things 255 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 3: about human evolution because of pottery discoveries totally. 256 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 4: I mean, we could trace when people went from being 257 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:57,319 Speaker 4: hunter gatherers to being in agricultural societies because they were 258 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 4: sitting down, they were cooking, they were boiling, there were 259 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,200 Speaker 4: eating and this is and they needed plates to cut 260 00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 4: meat on because it's much easier to do on a 261 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 4: flat service and a rounded one. So even just from 262 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 4: those those shards of plates that we see in museums, 263 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:16,000 Speaker 4: it really tells us so much about civilization and going 264 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 4: back to ancient Mesopotamia, Egypt, China in this valley, like 265 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 4: dinnerware played roles and rituals and festivals and funerary offerings. 266 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 4: Ancient Egyptians placed plates in their tombs. We see the 267 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 4: same thing in Mesoamerica. Mayan vessels for hot chocolate have 268 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 4: been found in funerary contexts and plates to hold them. 269 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 4: A list like this is you know, the fact that 270 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 4: a plate could magically serve food forever in the afterlife 271 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 4: is something so profound I can. 272 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 2: Do with the other what those as well? 273 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 3: We kind of push, Yeah, that's true, an alter assuming 274 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 3: our ancestors will be fed their favorite things like we 275 00:14:58,960 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 3: put it in dinnerware. 276 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true. It's the same thing. It's just the 277 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 4: modern version of it. And it's just it's so beautiful. 278 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 4: And I think this idea of the shift from utilitarian 279 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 4: two decorative. And even though some early pottery, like the 280 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 4: Jaman pottery in Japan, is really that some of the 281 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 4: oldest pottery is really kind of decorative, like they would 282 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 4: press rope on the clay to just make these interesting 283 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 4: surface areas. It wasn't until the ancient Greeks between the 284 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,040 Speaker 4: seventh and fourth centuries BC that they started introducing this 285 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 4: red figure and black figure pottery and this sort of 286 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 4: revolutionized ceramic. They made plates and bulls and drinking cups, 287 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 4: and they adorned them with stories. So it was just 288 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 4: this story like utilitarian storytelling. They would have scenes from mythology, 289 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 4: from daily life and just like you know, heroic epics, 290 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,280 Speaker 4: and so they were tools for artistic expression. And we 291 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 4: actually see the names of the artists and you know, 292 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 4: just drawn onto these plates. And some of them are 293 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 4: so interesting. There are some Greek plates. I don't know 294 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 4: if you've seen these. Spaghetty Villa here in Los Angeles 295 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 4: has them, that met in New York has them as well. 296 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 4: But there are these plates that have fish painted on it, 297 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:23,200 Speaker 4: and they have this little indentation in the center, so 298 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 4: they held fish and then the little indentation held some. 299 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 2: Sort of sauce. So they were beautiful, but they were functional. 300 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 4: They told a story and so you could take your 301 00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 4: fish and dip it into the sauce. 302 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 2: They their Greek. Those are Greek. 303 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 4: And then the Romans made another shift because they started 304 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 4: mass producing plates by using molds. 305 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: So it was the beginning. 306 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 4: Of the shift towards this democratization of dinnerware that foreshadowed 307 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 4: the industrialisions by by like a really really long time. 308 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:02,640 Speaker 4: So they were doing glass, also making silver bowls and plates, 309 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 4: and the silver is interesting because they had stamped. 310 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 2: They had the weight. 311 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 4: Of the silver stamp onto the stamped onto the vessel. 312 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 4: This is like make and sometimes also with the maker's mark. 313 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:20,280 Speaker 4: So this idea of oh, yeah, this is my silver 314 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 4: plate and it has the weight on it. 315 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 3: Right. Silver and gold obviously was used in dinnerware as well, 316 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,120 Speaker 3: but that's not technically pottery, right. 317 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,679 Speaker 4: That's not technically pottery, no, but it also shows you know, 318 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 4: there's just that there were different types depending on the 319 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 4: on the on the status, right, and the gold ones 320 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 4: were used more ceremonial. 321 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 2: Silver was more the ones that the that the elite 322 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 2: would would eat. 323 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 3: Right, and elite households that had individual plates and cups. 324 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,879 Speaker 3: But for the most part in this time and in 325 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 3: ancient Mesopotamia and Greece and Egypt, and they were still 326 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 3: eating communally shared bolds. 327 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 5: Regular like most people, regular people, and I would assume 328 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,120 Speaker 5: in medieval Europe it was still this way. 329 00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 3: Yes, Like when did the shift happen from this communal 330 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 3: dining to individual place settings. 331 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, it took it took a really really long time. 332 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:21,719 Speaker 4: So medieval Europe people still didn't use individual plates. They 333 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 4: would serve food on trenchers, which were like slices of 334 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 4: bread that absorb sauces, or they would have shared bowls 335 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 4: or you know, wooden boards, and then after the meal, 336 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 4: the bread would be eaten or given away to the poor, 337 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 4: and sort of dining was still communal, and it sort 338 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 4: of started shifting between the thirdteenth and fourteenth century when 339 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 4: we start seeing pewter. So there's still pottering among them, 340 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,399 Speaker 4: but pewter among the wealthier classes. And pewter is an 341 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:58,159 Speaker 4: alloy of tin, and it could be molded into beautiful. 342 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 2: Shapes, but it had lead, I know, so it had 343 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 2: health risks. 344 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,159 Speaker 4: But still among the super wealthy, they were like, whatever, 345 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 4: something's gonna kill me, right, So they were just they. 346 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 2: Were still it remained dominant material. They had short life spins. 347 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 2: They did, they did, they did. But there was a 348 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 2: shift porcelain fever. I still have porcelain fever. 349 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 3: So there was a big Europe went crazy for porcelain, 350 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,880 Speaker 3: but it was China that developed it, right. 351 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 4: China developed it, you know, beginning around the seventh eighth century, 352 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 4: that during the Tang dynasty. But yeah, Europe went sort 353 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 4: of completely cuckoo over over porcelain. So they developed it. 354 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 4: They perfected it later between the fifteenth and eighteenth and 355 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 4: seventeenth centuries, and we talked about porcelain was just so 356 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 4: durable and so amazing. It started to it was the 357 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,879 Speaker 4: opposite of Europe's heavy ceramics or metals. And by the 358 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:59,040 Speaker 4: fifteenth and sixteenth century, no, it was across Europe. They 359 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 4: really just wan their hands on this porcelain. They competed 360 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 4: all over Europe. They competed to get it, and it 361 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 4: was transported along the Silk Road and later you know, 362 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 4: by sea. 363 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 2: And it was. 364 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 3: The kalin, which is that what it's called, the clay, 365 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 3: So the porcela is made of this refined clay called kalin. 366 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 3: Is it native to some place or can kaylin be 367 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 3: found anywhere? 368 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,840 Speaker 4: It can't be found anywhere. But for a very very 369 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,399 Speaker 4: long time it was. It was only only China was 370 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 4: making it right, and so European alchemists were like, what 371 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 4: the hell is this? 372 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 2: Because it was. 373 00:20:37,000 --> 00:20:41,240 Speaker 4: So durable, it's translucent, it doesn't scratch, it's stunningly beautiful. 374 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,120 Speaker 4: So they were trying to replicate it like for many 375 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:48,200 Speaker 4: you know, for hundreds of years, they would mix eggshells 376 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 4: and marble dust and mother of pearl and they would, 377 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 4: you know, buried underground and it was like this whole 378 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,199 Speaker 4: they were trying to replicate this. They thought it was 379 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 4: just magical because it was just so beautiful. And then 380 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 4: it wasn't until the early seventeenth century that Germany found 381 00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 4: kalin deposits in Germany, that's the first time that they 382 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 4: found it. So that's paved the way for a porcelain 383 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:16,920 Speaker 4: manufacturer called Masin Porcelain. France followed at Vincennes and then 384 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 4: sev and these were championed by people like Madame de Pompadour, 385 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 4: and they were making a different type of porcelain, that 386 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 4: soft paste porcelain, which doesn't have kalin, but it became 387 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 4: just legendary, the self porcelain. I'm obsessed with self porcelain 388 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 4: because it's just it's so beautiful. It's like they have stories, 389 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,120 Speaker 4: they have little flowers and little cupid and then they're 390 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 4: known for their like pinks and blues and greens, and 391 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,679 Speaker 4: it's just so beautiful gilding. It's just so elaborate. But 392 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 4: they started making these coordinated dinner service a soup plate, 393 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 4: a fish plate, a dessert plate, charger plates like each 394 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 4: plate for a specific. 395 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 2: Course and this idea of owning. 396 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,919 Speaker 4: A full service of porcelain was not just functional, It 397 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 4: wasn't just about eating. It was this display of taste 398 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 4: and refinement. So we start seeing this idea of taste 399 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 4: go hand in hand with the beautiful table, right, So. 400 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 3: Then you know I'm obsessed with limoj So then France 401 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:27,120 Speaker 3: finally discovered Kaylin Depause's near Limoje in seventeen sixty eight. 402 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 2: Many of my. 403 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 3: Favorite mason the porcelains are are in Limos, and I 404 00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 3: didn't know they had found the clay. 405 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 2: I thought, like, they've just shipped in clay and they 406 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 2: just made it better. 407 00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 3: This is why now Limos is so known for it, 408 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 3: because this clay is a little it's a little different. 409 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 4: So yet once they founded at Limoje, this was a 410 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 4: rival to imported Chinese porcelain, right, it just changed everything. 411 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 4: They also founded in England, so there's a Chelsea porcelain. 412 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,800 Speaker 4: So but that's pretty much it's Germany, England and France. 413 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,719 Speaker 4: I believe those are the only countries in European. 414 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, and the US has summit in Georgia. 415 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 3: But you know, yes, the US has some Klan, a 416 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 3: major belt of high quality Kailin is found along the 417 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 3: Fall line in like Middle Georgia in the United States. 418 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 2: That's fascinating. 419 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:32,679 Speaker 5: Yes, that is crazy Kailin. 420 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 3: It comes from the Chinese gauling, which means a high ridge. 421 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,640 Speaker 3: I don't know, so I guess that's like what created 422 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 3: this place, like it was a high something Kaylin Helen. 423 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 3: But anyway, I'm obsessed with Limos. Everybody in France knows. 424 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 3: They make fun of me because Limoj only has porcelain industry. 425 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 3: But it's interesting because they made this discovery in France 426 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 3: about in seventeen, you know, sixties, which was like French 427 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,840 Speaker 3: Revolution was happening, Napoleon and it was also this the 428 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,719 Speaker 3: the idea of the curated dining experience in Louis the 429 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 3: fourteenth and you know, this opulence and status and all 430 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 3: of this, you know, was happening at the same time 431 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,960 Speaker 3: the revolution was happening. And it's just interesting that, you know, 432 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 3: something as simple as dinnerware could reflect that history, like yeah, trying, 433 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 3: but well porcelain, you know, having a nice set of 434 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 3: ports dinnerware just projected this imperial power and it said so. 435 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,560 Speaker 2: Much about the politics at that time. Was so interesting. 436 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know during the and the way that 437 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:46,119 Speaker 4: people like sav porcelain, it was really so beautiful and 438 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 4: ornat and little cupids and little flowers. And then after 439 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 4: the Revolution it became these neoclassical designs and Roman motifs 440 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 4: and just these vases and it was about politics, so 441 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 4: they shifted their aesthetics to shift with the time. This 442 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 4: is what's so fascinating when talking about food and things 443 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 4: like a plate or a fork, is that you just 444 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 4: trace it and it tells you the history of just 445 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 4: the world. I mean, it's just really it's just blows 446 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 4: my mind every single time. But let's talk about how 447 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 4: this porcelain fever was reflected in colonial Mexico then New Spain, 448 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,320 Speaker 4: which is really quite interesting because the porcelain crape in 449 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 4: colonial Mexico was very different. There's no porcelain in Mexico. 450 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 2: There's not porcelain in Mexico. There's not Marlona in Mexico. Yeah, 451 00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 2: there is no, but there's beautiful is it earthenware or 452 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 2: there's yes, it's different. 453 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,520 Speaker 4: Porcelain was coming in on the Manila galleons, right, and 454 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 4: there were exchanging things like porcelain for silver from the Americas. 455 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 4: So it was coming in and the wealthy, you know 456 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 4: Urbans and the colon the Spaniards, they had porcelain from China. 457 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 4: This porcelain, Chinese porcelain appeared on tables and sometimes they 458 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 4: would use these tea sets or coffee sets to drink 459 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 4: hot chocolate. But they also displayed them in cabinets. I 460 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 4: want to get to that next is like what about 461 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 4: the cabinets or where did that come from? 462 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,800 Speaker 2: So this imported porcelain, they were the good times. Don't 463 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 2: threaten me with an all war. 464 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 4: So but this popularity of imported porcelain influenced local ceramics. 465 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 4: So in places like Buevla, potters developed a lavera, which 466 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,600 Speaker 4: is a tin glazed pottery inspired by blue and white porcelain. 467 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 4: So it combined the blue and white Asian aesthetic with 468 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 4: Spanish traditions like Talavea pottery, which is very similar to 469 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,439 Speaker 4: the to the Mexican taala vera. But also the Dutch 470 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 4: had the Delft pottery that was blue and white. But 471 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:02,640 Speaker 4: these are much cruder, of like stunningly beautiful, but but 472 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 4: but but thicker and. 473 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 2: Just just a little more just a little a little. 474 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 4: Cruder, but but but it's the ballaveta, the Mexican talaveda. 475 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 4: It blends this Asian traditions with the Spanish tradition with 476 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 4: indigenous Mexican techniques. So you see this very distinctly Mexican 477 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 4: style of. 478 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 2: Art that is emerging. That that emerges, and it was 479 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,240 Speaker 2: mostly like red and orange clay, right, the talareta is 480 00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 2: blue and white. Was it in Puebla that it became. 481 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 4: A Puebla That's when it became That's where they developed 482 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 4: it in Buebla. 483 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 2: I guess because now everybody has beautiful plates. They're not 484 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 2: fine China, but. 485 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:50,480 Speaker 3: Everybody has you know, your your what is it restoration hardware, 486 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 3: your pottery barn. 487 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,640 Speaker 2: Your target. I have the most beautiful dishes from Target. 488 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 3: Like when did it be mass produced and kind of 489 00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 3: moved away from like this elite high society, almost royal, monarchical, 490 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 3: exclusive thing to have nice plates to kind of mass 491 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 3: produced stylish and durable, but like mass produce. 492 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 4: The Industrial Revolution, you know, of course, was during the 493 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 4: in industri religion. There were factories like Wedgwood in England. 494 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 4: Josiah Wedgwood. He was an ardent abolitionist. He pioneered techniques 495 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,719 Speaker 4: that made really stylish durable dinnerware to a growing middle class. 496 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:38,000 Speaker 4: And he was able to standardize shapes, refined glazes, and 497 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,719 Speaker 4: he was able to produce ceramics at scale and at 498 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 4: a low cost. And these were still beautiful, These were 499 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 4: still refined, and he had these matching sets, and so 500 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 4: he was able to you know, anybody could could have this. 501 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 4: And we also start seeing around this time this idea 502 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 4: of formal china versus everyday dishes, and this was sort 503 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 4: of rey and first this Victorian etiquette, which emphasized hospitality 504 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 4: and refinement. So we start seeing because it's more affordable, 505 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 4: we start seeing the concept of separate dishes in middle 506 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 4: class households. So the industry revolution really changed everything. And 507 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 4: also around this time, the eighteenth and nineteenth century, we 508 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 4: start seeing the china cabinet, the buffets. 509 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 2: The fun Yes, that's dying. I came there, man, that 510 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 2: was it. 511 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 3: Let me tell you something though, I remember growing up 512 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 3: and the first time we got a china cabinet, it 513 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 3: was a big deal. 514 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 2: To have that piece of furniture in. 515 00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 3: The dining well, our dining room slash living room thing. 516 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 3: It was just I remember, it was my mother's pride 517 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 3: and joy. 518 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, it was crazy. Wow. Wow. Yeah. 519 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,320 Speaker 4: We start seeing them around the eighteenth nineteenth centuries, and 520 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 4: it was you know, it provided this area, this this yeah, 521 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 4: this place for you know, for showing your beautiful china. 522 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 4: Sometimes it had a mirrored back. And during the Victorian 523 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,760 Speaker 4: era they became taller, they became much more ornate. 524 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 2: They had glass. 525 00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 4: Doors that you could see it it's reflected in the 526 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 4: mirrors in the back. And this was really sort of 527 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 4: quite different. It took kind of this idea of dining 528 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 4: as a spectacle to another level. Now it has they're 529 00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,720 Speaker 4: usually in the dining room, right, we didn't have one 530 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 4: growing up. 531 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,240 Speaker 2: I mean, like it was a big deal. Yeah, yeah, 532 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 2: yeah they are. 533 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 4: I mean they're really they're so beautiful that prior to this, 534 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:49,000 Speaker 4: you people would have a sideboard, and but most of 535 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:51,920 Speaker 4: the time people would just put them away, like put 536 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 4: them in you know, on in cabinets or you know, 537 00:30:55,480 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 4: on shelves, and they weren't necessarily part of the esthetics. 538 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 2: Of the of the home. 539 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 4: And so yeah, so's so I think that in the 540 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 4: twentieth century, sort of mid century, we start seeing these sideboards. 541 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 4: They became really popular, and they're not as as ornate 542 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 4: as they once were, but there's they still They're still 543 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,880 Speaker 4: in homes. You still see these kind of homes. 544 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 3: I think now mid century modernism, you know changed. Now 545 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 3: we have you know a lot of lightweight, shatterproof plastic plates, 546 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 3: so you don't really want to display that. Or we 547 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,240 Speaker 3: have functional stuff right like heat proof glass and pyres 548 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 3: and and that's not as pretty or metal bowls, right, and. 549 00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: So none of that is for display. 550 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 3: So I feel like the china cabinet and the sideboard 551 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 3: and all of this was like about aesthetics and then 552 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 3: it kind of moved into convenience and functionality simplicity. You know, 553 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 3: we talked about you know, the kitchen. When did we 554 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 3: talk about that. I moved from like yeah, the stove, oven, 555 00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 3: the oven, the oven, yeah, aesthetic to being functioned on. 556 00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 2: Now it's stainless steel and restaurant quality. Put the griddle, 557 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:10,959 Speaker 2: Put the griddle in the middle. 558 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 3: Like it's just like now I think, now it's a 559 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,440 Speaker 3: choice in your house. Like we have so much diversity 560 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 3: in materials today, So your dinner where could reflect your culture, 561 00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 3: it could reflect efficiency, it could reflect aesthetics. 562 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 2: So I think it's it's. 563 00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 3: Interesting the amount of choices we have so fire King 564 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 3: is a line of dinnerware that was like heat resistant glassware. 565 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 3: It was made by this guy Anchor Hawking, like in 566 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 3: the nineteen forties to the nineteen seventies, but it was 567 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 3: made to rival pirates, which is interesting that Pyrex is 568 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 3: still around and was around. But it was designed for 569 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 3: like durability that so it could withstand to put in 570 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 3: the oven and and so like I said, my coffee cup, 571 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 3: you could put the coffee. 572 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 2: Cup and the mug in the oven. 573 00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:00,000 Speaker 3: And he marketed it as stylish and like even today, 574 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 3: I'm like, it's known for that jade green color. And 575 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 3: then he did like an orange gold color. I have both, 576 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 3: but it was just like, ugh, it's so reminiscent of 577 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 3: the nineteen fifties housewife and ads and in you know 578 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 3: that moment that was such a moment because it was 579 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,840 Speaker 3: like this is durable but pretty, and so now you 580 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 3: have to collect it if you want to buy it. 581 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:29,080 Speaker 2: Because they didn't, I guess they went out of business. 582 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 2: I don't think they're still around. 583 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, through the nineteen seventies. Yeah, from the forties to 584 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 4: the seventies. 585 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:36,000 Speaker 2: And so we did. 586 00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 3: Then there was another shift because okay, we went from 587 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 3: like beautiful to I mean elegant, to you know, industrial 588 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:48,880 Speaker 3: to plastic to the imperfect bowl. The it's perfect like 589 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 3: the like I made this myself in a pottery class. 590 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 3: So there's a shift also to this like imperfection in 591 00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 3: pottery is there's a brand that does with right. 592 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 4: There's a brand that I'm obsessed with called Heat Ceramics, 593 00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 4: and they've been around. It was founded by a woman 594 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 4: named Edith Heath in Sasolito, California, in nineteen forty eight. 595 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:10,680 Speaker 2: And this was sort. 596 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 4: Of this new idea of luxury. So it's not the 597 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 4: fine refined ceramics. It's not your you know, beautiful but 598 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 4: functional glass or and it's not your plastic or anything 599 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:24,279 Speaker 4: like that. 600 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 2: But it's so it's this stoneware. 601 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 4: It's this really really beautiful stoneware and really Matt glazes, 602 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 4: and every piece just has small imperfections. 603 00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 2: I'm obsessed with it. 604 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,120 Speaker 4: These this idea of the imperfections are flaws, but they 605 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 4: really show the hand, the care of the artists, the 606 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:49,600 Speaker 4: care of each piece. So they're beautiful, they're functional, they're stackable. 607 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 4: Friend of mine gave me this like huge blue bowl 608 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 4: as a wedding gift, and I was. 609 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 2: Like, what is this most beenible thing I've ever seen? 610 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 4: And now I'm obsessed with it. But it really stood 611 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 4: apart from mass produced dinnerware in you know, the nineteen 612 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 4: forties and because it focused on local production and it's 613 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,280 Speaker 4: still around. If you're in Los Angeles, there's a store 614 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 4: on Beverly Boulevard and it's just oh, it's so beautiful 615 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 4: and it's like it's colorful, and I just I love 616 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 4: the blues and the yellows and that and the. 617 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:23,720 Speaker 2: Like just the white is like so white. 618 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 4: So it's just, yeah, I'm obsessed with them. There's so 619 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 4: much beauty in this world, so much. 620 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,800 Speaker 2: Beauty on a plate. Beauty on a plate. 621 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 3: Like you think about the food on the plate, and 622 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 3: you want to make that beautiful, but like we forget 623 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,320 Speaker 3: about the plate. Can we talk a little bit about 624 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,439 Speaker 3: disposable plates, which I have to tell you I use 625 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,320 Speaker 3: I have, I have, you know, eco friendly paper plates. 626 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 2: Pippe hates it. Pippe is like I sometimes I give 627 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 2: them like a bean. 628 00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 3: Thuckle in the morning and I put it on a 629 00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,439 Speaker 3: paper plate because I'm like, don't want to watch dishes. 630 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 3: We gotta go like hurry up and eat your I'll 631 00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 3: go and he just looks at me as if he's. 632 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,440 Speaker 2: Like, why are you giving me a paper plate? Hey? 633 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 2: He's like this is so uncivilized. Yes, that's how I 634 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 2: am too. I mean, Dave, my husband is like, what 635 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 2: are you Queen Victoria? Like what yeah, yeah, yeah. 636 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,719 Speaker 3: It was like no, yes, yes, I am. 637 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 2: It's just I understand the human Yeah, He's. 638 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,560 Speaker 3: Like, you can give the paper plates to the kids, 639 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:29,279 Speaker 3: but like you're not giving it to me, you know. 640 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 3: And I'm like, okay, fine, I don't use them a lot. 641 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,319 Speaker 3: But when did that come around? Like when did this 642 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 3: like single use item come into play? 643 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 4: Well, I mean there's this man named Martin Keyes and 644 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,759 Speaker 4: he's credited with developing the first molded paper plates out 645 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:48,839 Speaker 4: of wood pump. But when we think about it, if 646 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:51,560 Speaker 4: we go way way back, like people were eating out 647 00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:56,520 Speaker 4: of leaves. So there's this this precursor of paper plates 648 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 4: in some way has been around for a long time. 649 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 4: But he developed this paper plate in nineteen oh four 650 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,240 Speaker 4: and he was working in he was a mill worker, 651 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 4: and he saw his fellow his colleagues or his whatever 652 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:14,200 Speaker 4: fellow mill workers used then scraps of wood as makeship plates, 653 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,520 Speaker 4: and he was like, oh, that's interesting, So he founded 654 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,760 Speaker 4: the Keys Fiber Company in Maine. He manded a machine 655 00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 4: to make plates out of wood pulp and they were 656 00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,400 Speaker 4: called saved A Plates and cups followed, and the company 657 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 4: eventually by the nineteen thirties produced the Chinette brand China. 658 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 2: It's a nod to China and. 659 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 4: It's like a pretty sturdy white paper plate. So it's like, 660 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 4: oh my gosh, this is like this nod to Chinese porcelain. 661 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,360 Speaker 4: But you know, Americans throw away an estimated trillion disposable 662 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:50,719 Speaker 4: plates and utensils a year. So I always think of 663 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,800 Speaker 4: like archaeologists are going to look back at our time, 664 00:37:53,880 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 4: at our culture as one built around disposability and speed. 665 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:04,160 Speaker 3: Wait, I guess as the plate, is the individualized plate 666 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 3: a universal thing or their cultures that don't do the 667 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 3: individual plate. 668 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 4: It's a very Western thing, right, because the Western is 669 00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 4: not universal. It's not universal, So we think of like 670 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 4: Western plating reflected the idea about of the self. Many 671 00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 4: cultures traditionally eat from share dishes, right, so it's really 672 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 4: quite different in the West. Each diner receives their own 673 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:29,880 Speaker 4: portion and their own plate, and so in other places 674 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:33,120 Speaker 4: of the world, for example, an Ethiopia and Erytrea, meat 675 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 4: meals are often served on a large tray and the 676 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 4: food like various different types of stews are placed on 677 00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,279 Speaker 4: top of injera, which is this like spongy bread, and 678 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:46,680 Speaker 4: diners eat together from the same plate, so there are 679 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 4: terror pieces of this bread and scoop up the food. 680 00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,359 Speaker 2: So we see that in Ethiopia, in. 681 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 4: The Middle East, there are mets there are placed in 682 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:56,480 Speaker 4: the center of the table for. 683 00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 2: Everybody to share. 684 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 4: You take small portions using spoons, you know, rather than 685 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:07,040 Speaker 4: individual plates. India as well, like family size, family style 686 00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,840 Speaker 4: meals are common lots of things, and I love the 687 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:11,120 Speaker 4: family style eating. 688 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 2: It's my favorite way to eat. 689 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,920 Speaker 4: But everything in the middle and then people just serve 690 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:18,640 Speaker 4: themselves whatever they want. So this communal eating right. China 691 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 4: as well, we see plates in the center, often on 692 00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:26,319 Speaker 4: like a rotating lazy susan, and then diners they take 693 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 4: their food into small bowls. So you know, it's different. 694 00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:35,200 Speaker 4: In every culture has something completely different. But before we 695 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 4: say goodbye, I want to go back to the bowl. 696 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 4: The kind of become dominant because of fast casual restaurants, 697 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:43,760 Speaker 4: like people with layer sweet creams. 698 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 2: They're super popular. 699 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 4: Sometimes they refer to as slop bowls, which is so derogatory. 700 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,000 Speaker 4: But I kind of think that food tastes better in 701 00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 4: a bowl. I don't know, eat I eat pasta ina bowl. Yeah, 702 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:59,440 Speaker 4: I don't like pasta on a plate, but it is. 703 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 2: It does better in a bowl. Me too. 704 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,800 Speaker 4: But there's like a grain bowl, like Saddi bulls. Everything 705 00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 4: is cut up, everything is sort of together. And I 706 00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,279 Speaker 4: just feel like this idea of like a ball is 707 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,439 Speaker 4: something so intimate, you know, and especially now like thinking 708 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 4: about all of this and going back to this idea 709 00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 4: of community, and there's something just very cozy about a bowl. 710 00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 4: But I love how dinnerware, you know, it's really throughout 711 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 4: the ages. 712 00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:31,720 Speaker 2: It's a reflection of how we live, how we dine, 713 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 2: and how we connect with one another. 714 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 3: I love I love I love dinnerware. I love the 715 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 3: evolution of it, the history of it, and I'm going 716 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:45,440 Speaker 3: to continue hoarding it. 717 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:50,719 Speaker 2: So I think you should. I thank you you guys. 718 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 3: Send us pictures of your favorite piece of dinnerware. Is 719 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 3: it a favorite cup, Is it a favorite plate? 720 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,880 Speaker 2: Is it a favorite serving spoon. I'd love to see it. 721 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,799 Speaker 2: We really would love to see this, We really would Yeah, 722 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:05,760 Speaker 2: we want to know what are you dining on? Yes? 723 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 2: What are some brands we're not aware of? That I 724 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 2: should all of a sudden become obsessed with. 725 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 3: That. 726 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 2: I need to collect gosh, I want to see your collection. Well, 727 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:19,240 Speaker 2: thank you guys for listening, and we'll see you next week. Bye. 728 00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:24,320 Speaker 2: Everybody Hungry for History. 729 00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:27,759 Speaker 3: Is a Hyphene Media production in partnership with Iheart's Mikoura 730 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:28,760 Speaker 3: podcast network. 731 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 4: For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app, 732 00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 4: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts