1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. AH 2 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 1: State Rivalries. One of my favorite things about traveling around 3 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: this fair nation of ours is that regardless of what 4 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: state you find yourself in, you can find another state 5 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 1: that most of the people in that state hate. So 6 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: if you go to Alabama, you'll find a lot of 7 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 1: people who hate Georgia. If you go to Georgia, you'll 8 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: find a lot of people who hate Alabama. Hi. My 9 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: name is Ben, Hi, my name is Nolan. I was 10 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: just recently in or again driving around in a rental 11 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: car with California plates, and I was I was counseled 12 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: that I better tread lie because that's not a good look. 13 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:04,959 Speaker 1: And people from Oregon do not cotton to those city 14 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,200 Speaker 1: slickers from California crossing over into their fair state. And 15 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 1: here's the problem. The car was in It was a 16 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 1: big giant SUV, so a real hog of the road, 17 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: and it had a tear trigger horn, so I was 18 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: constantly accidentally honking at people in traffic and getting some 19 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 1: pretty nasty looks. Well, listeners, super producer Casey Pegram, and 20 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: I can assure you that that Noel is a responsible driver, 21 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: and you don't just lay on your horn. You know, 22 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: it's tough when you're driving a rental car and you're right, 23 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 1: you're right about California. A lot of people have been 24 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 1: moving to Oregon, especially the western part of the state 25 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: by the coast. And when I had spent time in Portland's, uh, 26 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: that's one thing everybody got behind. They were like, all 27 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: these Californians, California coming in here, taking over our state. 28 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,919 Speaker 1: Stay on the four oh five. So so today's story 29 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: is a story about state rivalry. But it's not about 30 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: that kind of you know, funny. Let's tell one liner, 31 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: Joe sort of rivalry. Um, what do we mean by 32 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: one liner joke? I'll tell an example that makes fun 33 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: of Georgia. Since this is our state, of course, we 34 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: don't want to offend anybody. So so let's say you're 35 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 1: in Alabama, you're in Florida, and someone says, hey, did 36 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: you hear about that hurricane that hits Savannah? And they 37 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: say no, what happened? They said, well, it did like 38 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: millions of dollars worth of improvements. That's a that's a 39 00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 1: joke that you hear thrown around a lot. Savannah is 40 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: a beautiful lot of city, though, Ben who would say 41 00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 1: that about Savanna. Who would say that, I don't know jerks, 42 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 1: who are these monsters? Well, they're jokes. Savannah is a 43 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: town with a lot of histories to get a weird vibe. 44 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: And there's a like a nuclear weapon lost off the 45 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: coast there. Did you know that? I didn't, but I 46 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:53,679 Speaker 1: know there's a lot of ghosts there. Yes. Yeah, it 47 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: goes on those ghost deep port towns like in New Orleans, 48 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: and it's oh man, yeah, we should we should go 49 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: down there. We should go down there on a ridiculous 50 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: history field trip. We could do a ghost tour. We 51 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: could do a ghost tour. I think I think it's 52 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: in the budget. What do you say, let's do in 53 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:08,920 Speaker 1: case here you down for a ghost tour. I'd love 54 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: to do that. Yeah, Savers going to Hawaii, they can 55 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,119 Speaker 1: at least send us to Savannah for a ghost tour. 56 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: That really uh Savers and Food Lifestyle and travel show. 57 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: It's also involves food science. Do check it out if 58 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: you're did a chance to your friends Lauren Voge, Obama 59 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,520 Speaker 1: and any Reese who are going to why that is true? 60 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,120 Speaker 1: I asked them to bring back some spam for me. 61 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,880 Speaker 1: We'll see, you know, they sell spam here in the States. Yeah, 62 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: but it's different. There are more flavors in Hawaii. Okay, 63 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: did you specifically ask for a flavor? Just say give 64 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: me get weird with it. Say give me one that 65 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 1: I can't get in the States. It's sort of like 66 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: all those different flavors of kit cats that you can 67 00:03:42,600 --> 00:03:44,839 Speaker 1: only get in Japan. Yeah. I have a bag of those. 68 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: If I desk really like the green tea ones green 69 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: tea is good. I get hip to banana. Um. Also, 70 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: Hawaii is, I think, per capita, the world's largest consumer 71 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: of spam. Remember when we did an episode on spam 72 00:03:57,760 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 1: with any from Saver and we talked about how they 73 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: have to keep it under lock and key because it's 74 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: such a nonperishable item that they can just flip it 75 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: out of their trunks once they, you know, do a 76 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 1: big spam heist. Yeah. I used to have spam in 77 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: my go bag. But the weight ratio is anyway. Anyway, anyway, 78 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: State rivals right, that's um state rivalries. Today's episode is 79 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,239 Speaker 1: about a state rivalry. It is about the fair states 80 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 1: of Ohio and Michigan, who nowadays nol neither of us 81 00:04:27,880 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: are are big football fanatics. Football football. Yes, American football fanatics. Yeah, 82 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: neither of us are are huge American football fanatics, nowhere 83 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: near as insane and rabid about it as Casey Pegram is. Uh. 84 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: But even we know that Michigan and Ohio are famous 85 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: for how much their college football teams hate each other 86 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: because it says it right here on this out line. Yeah, 87 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: that's how you and I know that. But it's true. 88 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: And who knows. I mean, perhaps the rivalry in in 89 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: in question today has had historical hold on the relationship 90 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 1: between these two states and his you know, I would 91 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: say a football rivalry or a little healthy josh and 92 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: around between you know, rough and tumble footballers is a 93 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: lot healthier and safer than what has been described as 94 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 1: the Toledo War, a clash between Ohioans. And I'm gonna 95 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: go with my favorite Michiganders because in our research material 96 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: sometimes it says Michiganians and sometimes I yeah, right right 97 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: in any Michigan folk, let us know what you one 98 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 1: do you prefer um. But this conflict took place in 99 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty five, and it had to do with the 100 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,280 Speaker 1: fact that both Ohio, which was a state at the time, 101 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: and Michigan which was not yet a state at the time. 102 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: Both thought they owned this little strip of land. It's 103 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: almost like a gaza strip kind of situation between two 104 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: warring nations, uh, only this case it's you know, there's 105 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 1: their states and a state and a not quite yet state, um, 106 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: and there's this little strip of land between them that 107 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,240 Speaker 1: each of them feel like they have a claim to, 108 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 1: right right. This was a long time in coming, and 109 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: it's a uh. It's based on a series of misunderstandings. 110 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 1: First of all, I love the name Toledo War. It 111 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 1: sounds like it's the name of an album. In the 112 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: US Congress drafted what they called the Northwest Ordinance, and 113 00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 1: the Northwest Ordinance said that two hundred and sixty thousand 114 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: square miles of territory around the Great Lakes would be 115 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: carved into a handful of states. The law also said 116 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 1: that the border between Ohio and Michigan was to run 117 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: on a quote east and west line drawn through the 118 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 1: southerly bend or extreme of Lake Michigan until it intersected 119 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: with Lake Erie. However, they did a bad job. They 120 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: did a piss poor job, because the problem is that 121 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: the maps they had were wrong. La Michigan southern tip 122 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,520 Speaker 1: on the map, one of the best maps at the 123 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: time that they used, which was called the Mitchell Map. 124 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: You can look it up today. The Lake Michigan that 125 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 1: was on the map was actually several miles north of 126 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: where it where it is in the world or on 127 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: the planet. And so Congress got it wrong and they 128 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: didn't know it. Congress did what I know, I know, 129 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: I thought they were infallible. It was the one time, uh, 130 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: Congress got it wrong, and they didn't know that they 131 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: got it wrong until eighteen o two years and years later. 132 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: And it was because of a fur trapper who said, hey, guys, 133 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: actually got the line wrong. That's gonna come back to 134 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: bite you in the future. Listen to me. I'm I'm 135 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: a trapper. Professionally, I'm telling you you guys are trapping yourselves. Uh. 136 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: And how did they react, Well, we know it wasn't resolved. Well, 137 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: first of all, I got I got a backtrack slightly. 138 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: Let me ask you, guys, did this fur trapper with 139 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: you know, just just waltz into Congress and announce these findings. 140 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: Say hey, hey, you guys, it's me Raoul the fur trapper. 141 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 1: I got something to tell you or was he employed 142 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: by them? Was he sent to what's the word survey 143 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 1: the land? Because the surveyors come in a little later. 144 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: Sorry if I'm getting caught up in semantics here, I 145 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: just can't picture Raoul with the fur Trapper just waltzing 146 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: into Connor and saying, listen here, this is gonna be 147 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,239 Speaker 1: a real problem. He did. I like the name Raoul, 148 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: and we we don't have the exact name for this guy. Uh. 149 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:38,720 Speaker 1: Apparently delegates from the Ohio Constitutional Convention received reports from him, 150 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,199 Speaker 1: so he did not stroll into the halls of federal 151 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 1: I see he had a correspondence going on with him. 152 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: He was some in some form, their representative, and he 153 00:08:47,160 --> 00:08:48,920 Speaker 1: had a lot He had a lot of stuff going 154 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:51,520 Speaker 1: on already, show what I mean. He can't watch every 155 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: falling sparrow or border dispute. But uh, you said, you 156 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: said there were There was another important thing happening here, 157 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: which is that these territories, these areas around the lakes 158 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: were not states. Ohio finally became a state in what 159 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: eighteen o three, and so Ohio said when it became 160 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: a state, its specified something about this border in its constitution. 161 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 1: So the fur Trapper says the line actually falls south 162 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: of the Maumi River, and Ohio says, we own the 163 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: land around this no matter what future surveys show. And 164 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,120 Speaker 1: then the Michigan Territory is formed and the government of 165 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: the Michigan Territory says, hey, hey, hey, hey, Ohio, watch yourself, 166 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:44,040 Speaker 1: because that Mitchell map is wrong. We have newer, better maps, 167 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: and they show that this region is ours. This is 168 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: Michigan Territory, so step off. So things only got worse, 169 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: um because in the eighteen tens they sent a pair 170 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: of land surveyors. Uh actually I guess, one from each side. Yeah, um, 171 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: one from each side, and of course they came to 172 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 1: two different conclusions yeah yeah, about the location of where 173 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: this border would be. And that's when this strip became 174 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: a thing. This uh, this Gaza strip esque um area 175 00:10:17,480 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: of land, a four hundred and sixty eight square miles 176 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: slice known as the Toledo Strip um that was officially 177 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: being claimed very aggressively actually, as it would turn out, 178 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,239 Speaker 1: by both Ohio and what was then called the Michigan Territory. 179 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:45,760 Speaker 1: So okay, sure, maps get things wrong. People are fallible. 180 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: Can't they just sit down together and work it out? Well, 181 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: they could if it were an arbitrary mistake. The problem 182 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: is they both have skin in the game. They both 183 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: have a horse in the race. They both want a 184 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 1: badger in the bag here because they wanted to control 185 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 1: this area that it would later become Toledo and the 186 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: river you see, by the completion of the Erie Canal 187 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: linked the Great Lakes to the east coast on the 188 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 1: area that one. It's a song kind of like in 189 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 1: the company store. We're trying to ground it and like, 190 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:27,839 Speaker 1: you know, yeah, and folks, folks, folks songs. Exactly. No, 191 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 1: this is very, very very valuable position to hold in 192 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: terms of trade, right, yeah, absolutely, you're absolutely right. So 193 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 1: Toledo at this point is a growing village. It's the 194 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: largest port on Lake Erie's western side, and that means 195 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: it could be a financial windfall. So of course both 196 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: Michigan and Ohio want to tighten their grip on it. 197 00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 1: And just like uh, just like the border disputes we 198 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,679 Speaker 1: see in more recent years, they try a number of 199 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: things right to legitimize their claim, both in the eyes 200 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: of the people living there and in terms of just 201 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: pure infrastructure. So the Michigan Territory, because still not a 202 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,920 Speaker 1: state yet, is constructing roads, it's sending people on purpose 203 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: to live there to sort of take over the land. 204 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: It's holding election, it's collecting taxes. Really put in the 205 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 1: cart before the old horse. There isn't yeah like a 206 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: boots like sounds colexing that claim, right, It is not 207 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,880 Speaker 1: an ethical way to gain territory. It is an unfortunately 208 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 1: common way that human beings have done this in the past. 209 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: In the modern day, just say like, let's if we 210 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: send enough of quote unquote our people to a place 211 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: that we don't own and have them live there, but 212 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: eventually it's ours. It just isn't the moon. You know. 213 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:53,840 Speaker 1: This isn't like a far removed location. This isn't a 214 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: colony that is completely disconnected from day to day life. 215 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: This is a very small strip of land right between 216 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: these two places where presumably human beings live. Um. And 217 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 1: it became very evident that both sides wanted to protect 218 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: their claim uh physically if necessary. Right right in Ohio. 219 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: Ohio tries a different strategy. They're doing some of the 220 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: same things the Michigan territory is, but Ohio is already 221 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: a state, so they have a pretty pretty significant advantage. 222 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,880 Speaker 1: They go to Washington like that fur trapper who never 223 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: made it. Yeah. Right, Well, uh so they go to 224 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: the halls of federal power and they say, look, a 225 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: deal is a deal, is a deal. When we became 226 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,680 Speaker 1: a state, we put this in our instruction manual or 227 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,559 Speaker 1: their constitution. Rather, you guys screwed up. You guys screwed up. 228 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,880 Speaker 1: That's not on us. Toledo is and will always be 229 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: a part of Ohio as God intended it. In fact, 230 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: in the early eighteen thirties, UH members of Congress from 231 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: Ohio blocked a Michigan petition for statehood and tried to 232 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: tried to hold the uh Toledo strip, which they called 233 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: it hostage, and they said, look, you can't be a state. 234 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: They didn't say, give up Toledo. They said, unless you 235 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: admit that Toledo is ours. I mean, if we're being honest, here, 236 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: pretty scrappy of non state Michigan. Here the way they're 237 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: flexing on this claim, knowing that they themselves don't even 238 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: have statehood yet. And then they're poking the bear in 239 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: more ways than one, right, Yeah, exactly. In eighteen thirty three, 240 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: the US becomes divided on the issue. The entirety of 241 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: Congress so the Senate says, Okay, we're team Ohio. We 242 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: side with Ohio. But the House of Representatives says, well, well, 243 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 1: like we're not just gonna go along with you guys. 244 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:57,479 Speaker 1: And then people say, Stevens Mason. That's his name, Stevens, 245 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: that's Stevens. We're gonna get into some other really amazing 246 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: name in this story later, but yeah, Stevens Mason. Yeah, 247 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: he's governor of the Michigan Territory again still not a state. 248 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: And he says, hey, look, let's get a commission together 249 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: to try to work this out. I think it's so funny. 250 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: Stevens Mason. It should be flipped. It should be Mason Stevens. 251 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: It's the last name, first name, first name, last name, 252 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: vibe that he's more than one sees. I have a 253 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: I have a good friend whose name is James. He's 254 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: just like what one James. Well, that was the name 255 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: of Buffalo Bill in the Sounds of the Lambs movie. 256 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: His name was Jamee Gum and that right casey Goodbye Horses. 257 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: Oh I thought it was James. It was Jamee. Oh weird. 258 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: I just rewatched the chase scene from that. I just 259 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 1: rewatched the scene, not the mirror see. Of course, the 260 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: mirror cy that's the most iconic moment from that movie. 261 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: That's the one part everyone remembers. Goodbye Horses and the 262 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: mirror scene. I remember the lotion of the skin part. 263 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: That's also a good one. Uh. Anthony Hopkins is only 264 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,400 Speaker 1: in that movie like fourteen or fifteen minutes. He's he's 265 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: a he's a. I mean, but it's it's a very 266 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: powerful fourteen or fifteen minutes. It's true speaking, powerful, powerful 267 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 1: fourteen or fifteen minutes. We have to wonder how long 268 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:22,040 Speaker 1: Governor Robert Lucas of Ohio took to evaluate Mason's appeal. 269 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: Not that long. He pretty much instantly refused it. He said, 270 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: we do not negotiate. And then he said furthermore, in 271 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 1: eighteen thirty five, this is when everything started to go 272 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: really off the rails. He said, we're going to form 273 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: our own county on the Toledo Strips. Now, don't call 274 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:45,080 Speaker 1: it the Toledo strip now it's Lucas County, Ohio. Yeah. 275 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 1: And then um, Michigan flexes back against against Ohio, UM 276 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: against the Lucas um and and and and acts this 277 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: series of laws called the Pains and Penalties Act. And 278 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: that's in February eighteen five, a law that said anyone 279 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: found hanging in said strip that supported Ohio could be 280 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:05,679 Speaker 1: sent to jail for up to five years and find 281 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: a grand which at the time would have been equivalent 282 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: to about twenty dollars. So Mason gets a thousand men 283 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: a militia um and stations them right inside of this area. 284 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: And then Lucas, uh, you know, maybe having access to 285 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,399 Speaker 1: fewer men, are thinking that there wasn't that big a 286 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 1: deal because they, you know, we're big old state boys. Um. 287 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: Since six hundred men. Just to make sure that there 288 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: wasn't some sort of like out and out blood bath. 289 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 1: This is looking bad. Oh. Also we should mention, uh, 290 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: the governor of the not quite a state Michigan Territory, 291 00:17:38,760 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: Stevens Mason. He is twenty three years old. They call 292 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: him the Boy King or something like that, the boy Governor. Okay, yeah, yeah, 293 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: So so now we have military forces moving in and 294 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:57,040 Speaker 1: this weird hearts and minds law supporting this state of Ohio. 295 00:17:57,119 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: What does that mean? That can mean anything from being 296 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: an official of the county they proposed Lucas County to say, hey, 297 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 1: I live in Toledo and I'm in Ohio. And and and 298 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 1: also it's got that very kind of like gestapo e 299 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: kind of idea of like what if you're just caught 300 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: pounding around with somebody from the other side. You know, 301 00:18:18,480 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: what if someone names names and you're one of the names, 302 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: what gets named? Next thing? You know, you're sitting in 303 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 1: the clink for five years and you're you know, a 304 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: thousand dollars in debt which would be incredibly difficult to 305 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: pay off. So the federal government tries to get these 306 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: people to get along despite the fact they're already active 307 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: militias in the area. So on April ninety five, a 308 00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: posse led by a sheriff from Michigan rode into Toledo 309 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: and they did just what they were talking about. They 310 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 1: arrested several state officials from Ohio, and then newspapers, who 311 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: you imagine have to have loved the headline potential here. 312 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: Uh newspapers said that in Ohio flag was torn down, 313 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 1: dragged through the streets, and burned. People are p oed. 314 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,640 Speaker 1: Really a lawless zone here, you know, because no one 315 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 1: knows who's in charge, so everyone's kind of in charge, 316 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 1: or it's kind of mean, it really is like a 317 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 1: Wild West situation, but just in this little strip. Um. 318 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: So it escalates my friend and involves another sheriff from Michigan, 319 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: this time a man named Joseph Wood, who attempts to 320 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: enforce this pain and Penalties act by arresting Major Benjamin 321 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:41,120 Speaker 1: Stickney loving that name because he voted in an Ohio election. Um, 322 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: and this is fantastic. Stickney's sons who are named one 323 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 1: Stickney and to Stickney. Like the numbers O n E 324 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: t w O. Yeah, they join in with their pops 325 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: uh Stickney sr um and they resist being arrested, and 326 00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: they they stab sheriff would with a pocket knife, but 327 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 1: not fatally. No, it's a it's a it's a but 328 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: a flesh wound. Really right, tis only a scratch this 329 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: but a scratch. Uh funny story. I've got a I 330 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:19,399 Speaker 1: had a great aunt whose name was nine. Really, that's 331 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: pretty cool. I like the idea of numbers for names. 332 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 1: Me too, I met I met a dude name seven, 333 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: and he was so cool. He was not related to me. 334 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: I only have one number name in my family. I 335 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,640 Speaker 1: like the name four. Like the name four. Give about 336 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: six six? A character on Blossom uh there's six Smith 337 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: in uh cloud Atlas. Okay, I haven't seen that. Yeah, 338 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm partially for some reason, I'm partial 339 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: to odd numbers for names. This has nothing to do 340 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: with Michigan, Ohio's Toledo War. What do you think is 341 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,960 Speaker 1: a great number for a name? There was a character 342 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: name six on Blossom and he was six Lemure played 343 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: by Whoa jenne von Oi another These are great names? Um, yeah, 344 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: I would go with a I would go with a 345 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: nine or maybe a three. Yeah, we go with the 346 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,320 Speaker 1: name three. Casey, do you have a number that you 347 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,159 Speaker 1: you think would make a good name. I knew you 348 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: were gonna. Okay, Casey on the case. He's thought about it, folks. 349 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: He thought about this a lot. So this is the 350 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: first violent physical altercation when the Michigan Sheriff Joseph Wood 351 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 1: and Benjamin Stickney and co. Get beefed up, and now 352 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: Sheriff would is remembered as the one injury casualty in 353 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: the Toledo War. So the Ohio Governor Lucas announced his 354 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:52,719 Speaker 1: intentions to old a court session in Toledo. So they 355 00:21:52,720 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 1: were gonna hold a session in a court of law, 356 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: said like a hearing kind of, right, yeah, kind of 357 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: like a kangaroo court. It's not like he's gonna have 358 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 1: a stunning plot twist. Kinkaroo coords just seems so cute 359 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,199 Speaker 1: and fun to me, the idea, but they're not at all. No, 360 00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: they're they're very uh railroad e and sort of a 361 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: mockery of justice, right right? Uh? Do you know where 362 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: that comes from? A lot of people think it comes 363 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: from Australia, predictably only because the only not not just 364 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,960 Speaker 1: a stereotype because of kangaroo's I would have thought it 365 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: maybe came from the fact that it was a penal 366 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: colony and maybe you know, it was the idea of 367 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,560 Speaker 1: giving someone not a fair trial and throwing them onto 368 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 1: a penal colony. Is that not true? It's it's not true, 369 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: which is weird because it's it's something I believe for 370 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,480 Speaker 1: years to The first published instance of the term kangaroo 371 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,480 Speaker 1: court comes from nine or eighteen fifty three rather, and 372 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: it may have been popularized during the California gold Rush 373 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: because a lot of Australians went to the California gold 374 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: Rush and then they would have, you know, accusations of 375 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 1: claim jumping, so claim jumping and hastily proceeding through the 376 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: legal system, perhaps by leaps and bounds like a kangaroo. 377 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, they leap and bound right, so they 378 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,080 Speaker 1: would jump over or ignore evidence that would be in 379 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,360 Speaker 1: favor of the defendant. But people don't really know. That's 380 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,959 Speaker 1: just another theory. I think the most widely believed one 381 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: is the penal colony. But apparently that's the timing doesn't 382 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: work out. Ben, I just went down a bit of 383 00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: a mini internet rabbit hole when I was looking into 384 00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: the origins of kangaroo courts, and I discovered that in Germany, 385 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: the Third Reich would hold their versions of kangaroo courts, 386 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: and you know what they were called, Ben, what were 387 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 1: they called? They were called the People's Court. But not 388 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: with Judge Wappner. I think I've seen this show. Yeah, 389 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:46,880 Speaker 1: you know what show I miss as well. I watched 390 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,160 Speaker 1: I listened to the I listened to the intro theme 391 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: song for it all the time. Night Court. I'll probably 392 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 1: never actually watch Night Court. It probably hasn't aged well 393 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: since Dan Fielding is pretty much in uh Sexual Predator. Yeah, 394 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: but but that intro music is so great. I wish 395 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: we could play it anyhow, so he has this kind 396 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: of fake court set up to supposedly legitimize Ohio's claim 397 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: is this is the Governor Lucas of Ohio and the 398 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: boy governor Steven's Mason's here's about this, And he marches 399 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: twelve hundred militiamen called Wolverines onto the Toledo Strip and 400 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: they are prepared the Michiganders to use violent force to 401 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:37,320 Speaker 1: stop this court session from taking place. They get there 402 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,160 Speaker 1: on September seven of eighteen thirty five, and then they 403 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: find out they have been outsmarted. It's true because the 404 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 1: Ohioans had already done these court proceedings in secret at 405 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: the witching hour towards a midnight court session um and 406 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 1: then just booked it out of there because they didn't 407 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 1: want to get slaughtered, right right. So, according to history 408 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:08,959 Speaker 1: dot com, the court incident marked the last gasp of 409 00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:15,480 Speaker 1: armed hostilities in the Toledo War. Uncle Sam's representatives say, hey, Ohio, Michigan, 410 00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 1: why don't you guys jointly governed the territory until Congress 411 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: can make a permanent decision on the issue. Ohio says, 412 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: all right, cool, dope, let's do that. But at the 413 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 1: same time. While they said that was okay, they authorized 414 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 1: three hundred thousand dollars to the Ohio militia to seize 415 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:41,639 Speaker 1: the territory if Michigan said no. And Michigan said no, 416 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: so the Ohio militia moved to the south bank of 417 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: the river and faced off with Michigan's military on the 418 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: north side. And then the president had had enough. Andrew Jackson, 419 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: president at the time, said this is bonkers. This is bananas, 420 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: this is malarkey. I am removed, moving slash firing the boy. Governor. 421 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:05,800 Speaker 1: How do you do that? That's that's a bit of 422 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,160 Speaker 1: a of a legal reach, isn't it? Just to say 423 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: I unequivocally, as the president remove you from your duly 424 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 1: elected office. Didn't seem like that would go over very well. 425 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,040 Speaker 1: And then installing install my guy, right, that's right. It 426 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,440 Speaker 1: does seem like an overreach of power, you know, But 427 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: that's what happened. And Mason was replaced by fellow named 428 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: John Horner. John Horner, I don't know if we would 429 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: say completely mended the offences, but he worked with the 430 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:38,879 Speaker 1: Ohio governor to reach a okay conclusion to the dispute, 431 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 1: and Ohio was happy. The people of Michigan were not. 432 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: They hated this guy, They despised him. They would see 433 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 1: him in the street and verbally abuse him. They hanged 434 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: effigies of him on multiple occasions, and they immediately voted Stevens. Mason, 435 00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: the boy Governor, back into office. So this debate raged on, 436 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: and a lot of it focused on Michigan's, you know, 437 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: ongoing plea to be made a state, and that that 438 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: was really the deciding factor here because on December fourteenth, 439 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:23,720 Speaker 1: eighty six, Michigan did eventually accept a congressional compromise and 440 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:27,600 Speaker 1: they said, okay, we will give up the Toledo Strip 441 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: if we are admitted to the Union as the twenty 442 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 1: sixth state. And with that, Toledo became part of the 443 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: state of Ohio. Michigan didn't just give that up for statehood. 444 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 1: They also got some land right in the Upper Peninsula. Yeah, 445 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: it's between Lake Michigan and Lake superior Um. The thing is, 446 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: though the Michigans weren't super thrilled about this. They thought 447 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,880 Speaker 1: it was kind of a raw deal um because the 448 00:27:56,920 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: Detroit Free Press of the time had categorized this Upper 449 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:05,680 Speaker 1: an insular area as a barren waste land of perpetual snows. 450 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:07,919 Speaker 1: But you know, as history has a tendency to do 451 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: kind of soften things a little bit when they discovered 452 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: some precious, mindable materials in the form of copper and 453 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: iron ore. So it turned out to be not not 454 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: a bad not a bad trade, not a complete wash. 455 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 1: And there we have at folks. The Toledo War, nowadays 456 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: is remembered as the most ferocious conflict in Ohio Michigan history, 457 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: even worse than the uh college football rivalries. But this 458 00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: was not the last time the states clash over their borders. 459 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: These folks have legitimate boundary issues. The precise location of 460 00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:46,760 Speaker 1: their land boundary was still a constant subject of contention 461 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: argument until nineteen fifteen. They had to have a new 462 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: government survey, and the governors celebrated the resolution by shaking 463 00:28:55,640 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: hands across the border. See and nineteen sixty the lieutenant 464 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: governors repeated the ceremony. That's nice, like many hands across 465 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 1: America think hey, and here will come full circle. Uh. 466 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:13,640 Speaker 1: You know. There were occasional legal battles between the states 467 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: up until nine seventy three, when a Supreme Court ruling 468 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: resolved any claims to the waters of Lake Erie now, um, 469 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,520 Speaker 1: those tensions that historical tensions are pretty much dealt with 470 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: in in those college football rivalries we talked about at 471 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: the top of the show, the Toledo War. There you 472 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: have it. So this ends today's episode, but not our show. 473 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,080 Speaker 1: We would love to hear some of your favorite stories 474 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:46,800 Speaker 1: of state rivalries in the US or uh, you know, 475 00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: country rivalries, county province rivalries anywhere throughout the world, because, 476 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: as we know, at least here in the States, it's 477 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 1: a huge ongoing issue and every state has at least 478 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: one other state that they despise for one reason or another. 479 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 1: You can let us know on our email. We are 480 00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: ridiculous at I heart radio dot com. You can find 481 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: us on Instagram, and you can find us the most 482 00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: importantly your fellow listeners on our Facebook page Ridiculous Historians. Yeah, 483 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,719 Speaker 1: and you can check us out individually on Instagram if 484 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: you like, um follow our various exploits. I am at 485 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: embryonic insider. I am at Ben Bowling with a lot 486 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: of stuff on there that's probably gonna ruin my political 487 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: ambitions later in life. Oh surely not, Ben, surely not. 488 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: You're just a full human person, very rich life experiences, 489 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: that's that's very kind. I, like many people do, try 490 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: to emulate Casey Pegram Oh speaking of that guy, Hey, Casey, 491 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,360 Speaker 1: thanks so much for, as always saving the show. We'd 492 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 1: also like to thank Gabe, our research associate. I would 493 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: like to think Alex Williams who composed our theme, Christopher 494 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: Haciots who is here in spirit, and Jonathan Strict on 495 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: the quister and as usual, Ben Bolan, thanks to you 496 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: for being a friend, and all the other lyrics of 497 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: the Golden Girl theme that I will never never remember. 498 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: Why don't you ever remember? It's a great song. You 499 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: said it wasn't that greatest song, and it's the full 500 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,000 Speaker 1: song is not great, but the TV version, just for 501 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,880 Speaker 1: the intro is spot on. It's pretty heartwarming, especially when 502 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: paired with the you know, cliffs of these women and 503 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 1: their antics. It really does warm the cockles. And I'm 504 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: gonna say this even though it's late, we probably should 505 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: have said it earlier. Uh, you know it's here in 506 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,520 Speaker 1: the US. Mother's Day happened this weekend, and I just 507 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,880 Speaker 1: want to say thanks to all the moms listening. Yes, 508 00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:42,080 Speaker 1: thanks to everyone with a mom. Uh and and you know, 509 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: if you didn't get a chance you didn't get a 510 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: chance to call her. This is maybe a week a 511 00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: week late now that you're hearing this, But if you 512 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,080 Speaker 1: didn't get a chance to say hello, just just give 513 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: her a ring, drop by and see her. Um, we 514 00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: both hung out, well, all three of us hung out 515 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 1: with our moms recently and had a heck of a time. No, 516 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,200 Speaker 1: my mom even almost came to my improv show, which 517 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: was it was a weird flex man. I would have 518 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: come to your improv show as well if I wasn't 519 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 1: already entertaining my mom and daughter. Uh, you know, in 520 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: my daughter's ten I don't think um, the improv stuff 521 00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: you guys would have done would have been quite inappropriate. 522 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: Hear for very soon when she's I'm gonna say thirteen 523 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: and she can go to her first improv show. Okay, 524 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,480 Speaker 1: all of us listening now we've ever done improv, know 525 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: that it can be. It can be tiresome to continually 526 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: invite your friends to improv. So never feel, you know, 527 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: we improvise enough together on the show. Will never feel 528 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 1: obligated or anything other than invited to that kind of 529 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: that kind of outside of workstick, you know what I mean. 530 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 1: I do indeed, We'll see you next time, folks. For 531 00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: more podcasts for My Heart Radio, visit the I heart 532 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,239 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your 533 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 1: favorite shows.