WEBVTT - Cosmopolitanism feat. Andrew 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:02.880 Alsome Media. 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:08.760 Hello, and welcome to it could happen here. I'm here 0:00:09.039 --> 0:00:11.600 to ask you if you can imagine a world where 0:00:11.760 --> 0:00:18.360 national borders don't define our identities. This internationalist idea has 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:23.040 historically been known as cosmopolitanism, and it has some deep roots, 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.440 including interestingly, some connection to anarchism, and of course that's 0:00:28.440 --> 0:00:31.720 what we're seeking to explore here today. I'm joined once 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:33.080 again by the one and only. 0:00:33.880 --> 0:00:36.959 It's James James Stout. Thanks for having me, Andrew, I'm 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:37.880 excited about this one. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:40.800 Thank you for having me. I'm really excited to have 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:44.160 this conversation. Are you familiar with cosmopolitanism? 0:00:44.400 --> 0:00:47.720 Yeah, and like, look, if there gets a more broad 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:52.199 sphere of like anarchist internationalism, it is something I'm very 0:00:52.240 --> 0:00:54.280 interested in, right, Like, we had an interview on the 0:00:54.360 --> 0:00:57.120 show maybe two weeks ago, for a few weeks ago, 0:00:57.120 --> 0:01:01.520 and people hear this with people explicitly calling internationalists fighting 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:04.559 in Myanmar. Of course, I've spent time in re Java 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:08.400 and with internationalists there, so like internationalism is something I'm 0:01:08.440 --> 0:01:10.040 really interested in for sure. 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:14.119 For sure, I think it's a very compelling and inspiring idea, 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:17.840 especially in a world that lacks many of those ideas. 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:21.360 At its core, cosmopolitanism is just the belief that all 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.959 human beings belong to the same shared moral and political 0:01:24.959 --> 0:01:30.440 community that transcends national, cultural, and political boundaries. In the 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:35.080 book Cosmopolitanism, Ethics and the Wilders Strangers, philosopher Kwame Anthony 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:40.520 Appia describes cosmopolitanism as quote two strands that intertwine in 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.440 the notion of cosmopolitanism. One is the idea that we 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:46.720 have obligations to others, obligations that stretch beyond those to 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:48.760 whom we are related by the ties of kith and kin, 0:01:49.280 --> 0:01:52.720 or even the more formal ties of shared citizenship. The 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.120 other is that we take seriously the value not just 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:58.360 of human life, but of particular human lives, which means 0:01:58.400 --> 0:02:00.320 taken an interest in the practices and believe at land 0:02:00.320 --> 0:02:05.280 them significance. People are different, the Costopolitan knows, and there's 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.079 much to learn from our differences. Because there are so 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:11.960 many human possibilities worth exploring. We neither expect nor desire 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.960 that every person or every society should converge on a 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:18.640 single mode of life. Whatever obligations are to others or 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.120 theirs to us, they often have the rights to go 0:02:21.320 --> 0:02:25.760 their own way, so basically, we have obligations to others 0:02:25.800 --> 0:02:29.480 beyond just our immediate affiliations, and that human diversity is 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.640 something to be valued, not just tolerated. So it's not 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:38.560 the idea of assimilating all of humanity into one singular 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:42.960 culture or society or government. Is the idea of recognizing 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:47.840 and embracing the diversity of humans, but recognizing our shared 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:51.600 affinity all the same. There are a couple of different 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:56.200 versions of cosmopolitanism. There's moral cosmopolitanism, or the idea that 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:00.200 all humans have equal moral worth. There's political cosmopolitanism, the 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:04.919 idea that global governance or international institutions should supersede national borders. 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.120 And then there's cultural cosmopolitanism, which is the blending in 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:12.280 exchange of cultures through migration, trade, and shared histories. But 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:17.040 cosmopolitanism fully embraced has I would say an inherent tens 0:03:17.080 --> 0:03:21.639 with power, especially nationalism, the states, and capitalism. And while 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:25.480 it's true that liberal cosmopolitanism relies on global institutions like 0:03:25.520 --> 0:03:31.320 the United Nations and reinforces hierarchies, anarchist cosmopolitanism envisions a 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:36.760 world where solidarity, cooperation, and mutual aid emerge from below 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:41.640 through free association, rather than being imposed from above. So 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.480 today we'll be unpacking the history of cosmopolitanism, how anarchists 0:03:45.520 --> 0:03:49.360 have engaged with the topic, and why it remains somewhat 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:54.040 of a battleground today. Yes, the term itself comes from 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:59.560 the Greek cosmopolities, which means citizen of the world. The 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:03.480 earliest particulation of this idea is often attributed to Diogenes 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:07.840 of Sinope, who is a Synic philosopher who, when asked 0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:10.960 where he came from, simply replied, I'm a citizen of 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:16.240 the world. According to Martha Nusbaum, Greek stoics like Xeno 0:04:16.279 --> 0:04:20.000 of Citium, Seneca, and Marcus Aurelius expanded on this idea, 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:23.720 arguing that humanity shares a universal reason and should live 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:27.880 in accordance with nature, not artificial divisions of state or tribe. 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:30.400 Of course, many of these philosophers didn't have any issue 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:34.880 with patriarchy or slavery in Greece, so there is some 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.240 inconsistency in their concept of a shared humanity. 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:41.280 Yeah, the two counts as human I guess, isn't it like? 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:43.080 Which is pretty bleak. 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:47.039 Indeed, But let's pass forward a bit. During the Enlightenment 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:51.080 we see a more structured political philosophy of cosmopolitanism. Emergent 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:55.560 Emanuel Kant was one of its most famous proponents. In 0:04:55.600 --> 0:05:01.040 the book Perpetual Piece, Can't imagine a cosmopolitan condition where individuals, 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:04.560 not just states, had universal rights and where a global 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:08.919 federation of free republics would ensure peace and cooperation. However, 0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:12.680 his version of cosson Politanism still relied on legal structures 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:17.000 and state based governance. Another Nightman thinker associated with cosmopolitanism 0:05:17.200 --> 0:05:21.160 was Dni Dederu, who criticized colonialism and argued for a 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:25.040 cultural exchange free from that kind of domination. He also 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:29.320 argued against monarchy, the church, and aristocratic privileges, as they 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:33.160 were obstacles to a truly free and universal human community, 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.000 which then brings us to the French Revolution, which brought 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:41.239 these ideas into the real world. Revolutionaries declared the Rights 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:44.640 of Man and of the Citizen, which proclaims universal rights 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:48.479 beyond national or social status, but the revolution soon became 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:53.320 entangled with nationalism, particularly under the Acabins, who suppressed dissent 0:05:53.760 --> 0:05:57.719 and waged wars in the name of France. Meanwhile, the 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.320 Haitian Revolution provided a different example of liberation. In practice, 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:06.200 enslaved Africans, inspired by the French Revolution's rhetoric of liberty inequality, 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:10.520 revolted against French colonial rule and established the first free 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:15.200 Black republic. The revolutionaries, led by to Saint Levitire, argued 0:06:15.200 --> 0:06:19.159 that liberty was a universal human right, not one limited 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:22.919 to European citizens, and declared Haiti a refuge to all 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:28.240 enslaved persons. But despite its radical implications, the Haitian Revolution 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:33.400 was largely ignored or outright opposed by European powers. Their 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:38.000 so called enlightenment only extended to Europe, ignoring our racial 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:51.560 and colonial realities. We also see in this time the 0:06:51.600 --> 0:06:55.359 emergence of nationalism, which on the one hand promoted self 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:59.440 determination for omopressed nations, but on the other hand saw 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:03.440 the nations state as a superior form of political organization. 0:07:04.360 --> 0:07:08.400 So anarchists were among the earliest critics of nationalism. Patrons 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:11.240 of Pradawn, for instance, rejected both the nation state and 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:17.600 centralized cosmopolitan governance, instead advocating for federation, a frequently misunderstood 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:22.160 concept that refers in anarchist literature to a decentralized network 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:27.920 of freely associated individuals and groups working in solidarity. Similarly, 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:32.200 Mikhil Bcunen attacked nationalism as a tool of ruling elites, 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:35.760 arguing that states used national identities of press, class struggle, 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:40.280 and international solidarity. Bi Cunin did back national liberation movements, 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:44.280 but he understood the danger of nationalism as a force 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:49.920 that often replaces foreign rulers with homegrown oppressors. Instead, Bercunen 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:55.720 promoted anarchist internationalism, where workers and oppressed peoples across borders 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:59.960 would unite against both capitalists and state powers. By contrast, 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.040 the Bolsheviks would eventually developed the idea of socialism in 0:08:03.080 --> 0:08:06.920 one country, and the ever paranoid Stalin would famously deride 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:13.440 Jewish intellectuals as quote rootless cosmopolitans. This, of course aligned 0:08:13.520 --> 0:08:16.960 him with the rest of Europe's nationalists in their anti semitism, 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:21.600 inaccurate cricketerization of cosmopolitanism as opposed to cultural identity or 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:26.800 sovereignty and ramid defense of national borders. Honestly, I would 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:30.200 not be surprised if Trump or Putin used some equivalent 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:32.760 to rule less cosmopolitanism today. 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.760 Yeah, yeah, I did see. It was like a pro 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:40.960 tramp account. I guess constantly or unconstantly paraphrasing Stalin. 0:08:40.720 --> 0:08:42.160 This week, so that was great. 0:08:42.559 --> 0:08:45.920 Really well, they say it's like, how many divisions does 0:08:45.960 --> 0:08:49.600 the judge command? Which is a I think there might 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:51.720 be a quote from Stalin if it's not quote to paraphrase, right, 0:08:51.760 --> 0:08:55.040 But in this case, it's a reference to the attempts 0:08:55.080 --> 0:08:57.920 by a district court judge in GC to block the 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.200 rendition of people to US ale were accused of being 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:07.959 members of various gangs and Miroslature being the two main ones. 0:09:08.720 --> 0:09:11.960 Yes, so just being expelled. What's the connection to Stalin? 0:09:12.000 --> 0:09:12.200 Though? 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:16.679 The quote how many divisions does the judge command? Let me, 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:20.200 I'm pretty sure how many divisions does the pope command? 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:23.520 Was the starting quite, that's right. So like it's referencing 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.280 this idea that like might makes right and like that, 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:28.120 you know, if you have the bar of the state, 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:33.760 then you're not accountable to morally or even even within 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:37.760 the confines of the state, like separation of powers that 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:39.920 we're supposed to happen in the US, right, Like if 0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.880 you have the monopoly on coercive violence and you're no 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:45.640 longer constrained by those things. 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:51.000 Right, yeah, I see, I see. So of course, Alec, 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:53.520 I suppose all those things they appouse. What is happening now, 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.120 and they oppose what was happening then, you know. From 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:00.520 its inception, anarchism has been an internationalist movement, rejecting the 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:04.960 artificial borders imposed by state and champion in global solidarity. 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:10.319 Unlike Marxist internationalism, which has often relied on the centralized 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:16.199 structures of the first, second, or Third internationals, anarchists emphasized decentralized, 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.720 horizontal networks of struggle that connected workers, revolutionaries, and stateless 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:26.520 peoples across continents. The anarchist Saint Emer Internationale, which ran 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:30.000 from eighteen seventy two to eighteen seventy seven, was one 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:33.040 such network. As discussed by Lucian van der Waldt and 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:39.360 Schmidt in Black Flame, that group explicitly rejected nationalism and 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:44.640 state power, and throughout history anarchists worked a bridge linguistic, cultural, 0:10:44.720 --> 0:10:48.839 and national divides from multi lingual anarchist newspapers in the 0:10:48.880 --> 0:10:53.240 nineteenth and twentieth centuries such as Laprotester Argentina, der Camp 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:58.040 in Germany and The Libertaire in France, through transnational cynicalist 0:10:58.080 --> 0:11:00.680 movements like the Industrial Workers of the World World, which 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:03.600 organized workers across race, nationality, and language. In the early 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:08.280 twentieth century and including contemporary mutual aid networks where anarchists 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:13.080 coordinates across borders to support refugees, disaster relief, and addigenous 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:18.280 land struggles. Anarchist networks, contrary to popular belief, often extended 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.640 beyond Europe into North Africa, Asia and Latin America, where 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:26.679 anti colonial and labor struggles intertwined with anarchist thought. If 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:28.960 you're curious, by the way, about the anarchist histories of 0:11:29.000 --> 0:11:31.439 Egypt or the rest of Latin America, they could check 0:11:31.440 --> 0:11:34.000 out my series on it right here on the canappen 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:37.320 Air podcast. And if you've listened to that series, you'll 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:41.520 know that because anarchists were constantly persecuted, exile became a 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:47.200 defining experience which further reinforced the internationalism. Folks like Michail 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:51.920 Bi Cunan, Pieter Kropotkin, and Erikomana Testa moved across continents, 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:56.520 spreading anarchist ideas and connecting struggles. Myl test in particular, 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.800 was basically a common San Diego. You know, he touched 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.280 multiple continents over the course of his life. So boyut 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:07.200 the late nineteenth century anarchists like Groulph Rocker developed an 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:12.120 alternative to both statist nationalism and liberal cosmopolitanism, which sorts 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:16.319 of balance cultural diversity with global solidarity from below. Rocker 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.800 argued that people should be free to maintain their cultural 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:23.600 traditions without being bound to the state or nationalist identity. 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:27.439 So liberal costopolitanism was pushing a global order through state 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:32.360 led interventions, international institutions, and legal frameworks. And while this 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.280 form of costopolitanism has led to some games on people 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:40.719 in human rights, international refugee protections, and anti genocide treaties, well, 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:42.880 for one, we see the failures of these institutions and 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:47.160 practice daily, and for two, they ultimately reinforced the state 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:49.920 power that creates so much harm, rather than dismantling it. 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.720 The UN and the WTO often uphold the interest of 0:12:53.760 --> 0:12:57.440 powerful states above and before the international laws and obligations, 0:12:57.679 --> 0:13:02.200 whilst sidelining grassroots movements. While liberal costopolitanism sits on its 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:06.000 hands waiting for elit driven reforms to the system, anarchists 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:09.800 engage in direct action to support migrants and other marginalized 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:13.200 folks without waiting for such reform. I have to give 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:14.960 a shout out here, of course, to the No Borders 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:17.840 network and also a shout out to the work that 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:20.400 you do, James on the side. 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:20.920 Thank you. Yeah. 0:13:21.000 --> 0:13:23.000 Yeah, I've see a lot more people than me doing 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:24.040 it of course. 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:29.520 So the sad part is, even if it started with 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:34.160 some noble ideal, the concept of liberal cost of Politanism 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:38.760 today doesn't so much manifest in the freedom of people, 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:43.280 but moreso in the freedom of markets and money, the 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:47.280 globalization of markets and money. So we will bring McDonald's 0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:51.520 Netflix to your country, but you can't come to our country, 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:52.320 or will kill you. 0:13:52.880 --> 0:14:04.640 Yeah, that's about it. 0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.920 It was really interesting to like the moment I sort 0:14:07.920 --> 0:14:10.360 of became aware of libertarian left politics was in the 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.840 early two thousands in the context of the movement against 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:18.000 like the g eight as it was then and at 0:14:18.000 --> 0:14:21.040 the time it would be referred to in the legacy 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:24.360 media as like anti globalization right, which I don't think 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.720 it ever was right by definition. I think it was 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:28.800 very global, Like you had people from all around the 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:32.360 world tending these protests and rallies and speeches as such, 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:35.160 Like it was a very global movement. The problem was 0:14:35.200 --> 0:14:39.320 not with globalization Costopolitanism internationalism. It was with the nature 0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.960 of neoliberal capitalist globalization, which let capital move and stop 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:43.760 people from moving. 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:49.360 Exactly. It's some old opposition sugg as the free reign 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.240 of exploitas across the globe. 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:52.240 Yeah, exactly. 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.120 We let people take their money and employ people at 0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:59.000 lower wages, but God forbid those people ever want better 0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:01.520 for themselves, or to come somewhere where they can materially 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.320 benefit themselves doing the same labor in a different nation, 0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:05.000 for instance. 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:07.760 Yeah. And to be honest with you, I've never really 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:12.440 been a respect of borders. I think they're just I 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:17.480 think they are really really blatantly foolish imposition. I don't 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:20.000 even think you need to be a radical to see 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:25.000 the issue with this idea that your one point has 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:29.440 to determine your entire future. Yeah, that some people in 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.960 the past could cut up the earth and then decide 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:35.080 where you can roam freely. 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.680 Yeah, I think anyone. I see a lot more from 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:40.920 people who are not by any means radical or even 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:44.400 on the left, like this, like within Europe, right within 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.480 the Shanngen area, which the UK has decided to remove 0:15:47.480 --> 0:15:50.600 itself from for reasons that are largely racism. 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:52.160 Like we could move freely. 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:56.200 When I grew up, my identity and experience was much 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:59.440 more European than necessarily British. Right, I could go for 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:02.000 the weekend to Spain if I wanted to, or France 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:03.400 and flights were cheap then. 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:04.120 So it did. 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.920 Like I used to get on Friday night, take a 0:16:06.960 --> 0:16:09.080 train to Belgium, raise my bike in Belgium and come 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:12.280 back on Sunday night, very very often, and like you 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:14.960 see it here too in San Diego, where like the 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.560 border is just a line and a delay. But for 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:23.040 most people, like we were a very binational community. Unfortunately, 0:16:23.160 --> 0:16:26.320 the one way that that manifests itself is that the 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:29.080 cost of living in San Diego compares the average wage 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:33.320 is vastly disparate because we have this over pressure valve 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:35.320 where like people can't afford it here, they can live 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.320 across the border where the cost of living is cheaper, 0:16:37.400 --> 0:16:41.280 and that allows people to exploit working class people in 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:43.000 both contexts sadly. Right. 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.160 Yeah, as you mentioned the UK, by the way, I'm 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.000 not sure if you've heard the news, but Trenidad has 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:57.040 recently been imposed visa requirements by the UK for fuck's sake. Yeah, really, 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.680 thankfully we still have shanngin area access. Yeah, but just 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:05.200 recently the UK was like due to Yeah, the usual 0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:10.520 excuse people are using the asylum seeking system that they're 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:14.600 not removed our visa exemption, so our colonizers have now 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:18.359 decided that, you know, we don't want you to move 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.400 free in our country. We want you to pay. And 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.320 visas are not cheap theyan ever cheap, especially when there's 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.680 no guarantee, no other than being accepted. Yep, it makes 0:17:26.680 --> 0:17:28.719 it all the more frustrating. 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:32.680 Yeah, and like this just comes after the British government 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:36.879 attempting to deport Africribbean migrant Kames, part of what we 0:17:36.920 --> 0:17:39.800 call the wind rush generation, which is just one of 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:43.800 the most disgusting and like, yeah, it just just wanted 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:45.560 one of the most venal and pathetic things I've ever 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:47.760 seen a government do, Like these people who the UK 0:17:47.920 --> 0:17:50.440 asked to come so that it could rebuild this economy 0:17:50.440 --> 0:17:53.240 after the Second World War, and then taking advantage of 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:55.120 the fact that at that time there was no process 0:17:55.160 --> 0:17:57.760 for regularitation and then trying to deport these people who 0:17:57.800 --> 0:17:59.120 have lived their whole lives in the UK. 0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:00.520 It's just horrific. 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:05.760 Yeah, it is. It's horrific, it's frustrating, it's infury, it's 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:06.680 in really Yeah. 0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.040 Yeah, it makes me really angry, like if we didn't 0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.080 have a wind Rewst generation not that like you need 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.359 like popular music to justify their existence as part of 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:15.960 our community, and they should be able to stay. But 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:18.679 we wouldn't have punk music if if we wouldn't have 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.600 scar music. We like so much of what is like 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:26.720 integral to even like quote unquote British culture. It actually 0:18:26.760 --> 0:18:29.680 came from these people because they are British and they 0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:31.040 belong there just. 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:31.960 As much as anyone else. 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:33.280 Yeah. 0:18:33.480 --> 0:18:35.520 I used to teach a class about music and colonial 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.920 culture and colonialism, which is why that comes to mind. 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.800 I actually missed an opportunity to go to the UK 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:45.800 earlier this year. I didn't want to pay the cost 0:18:46.080 --> 0:18:50.399 to fly to go at that point in time. I 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:52.640 know I deeply regrets it because I'm like I could 0:18:52.680 --> 0:18:56.119 have gone. Honestly, I think if you're the UK and 0:18:56.160 --> 0:19:00.159 your your country has still learn so much, like I 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:05.640 think the UK has the least right or justification out 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:09.240 of any country if you had to concede that a 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:11.040 country should be lost, I don't. I don't give any 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.359 country that concession, but if you had to give that concession, 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:17.040 you could be last to receive that concession as far 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:18.920 as I'm concerned. You don't get to go on roam 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.240 across the entire planet and then shut yourself off. Yeah, 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.200 you don't get to go on steel and pill fall 0:19:24.200 --> 0:19:27.320 from across the world, shuffle it all into your national 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.000 museum and then block people from access it. 0:19:31.560 --> 0:19:31.800 Yeah. 0:19:31.880 --> 0:19:34.520 It is just like it's just the most clear and 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:39.080 pathetic like two level standard or whatever, and it's I mean, 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:41.640 the UK has a very I'm sorry you didn't get 0:19:41.640 --> 0:19:43.800 to visit in one sense, and I'm sure we have 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:45.480 lots of listeners who are in the UK. Every time 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.560 I'm home, I feel this like profound sense of like 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:52.800 post colonial melancholy that the UK it's just sort of 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:54.760 it's getting worse and worse and worse. 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:56.480 And the way. 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.159 Britain is responding is with our government blaming everyone one 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:01.159 else and. 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:04.720 Like trying to strip posterity. 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:09.000 Yeah, like stealing everything they can just mess Yeah. 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:11.960 Yeah, I think frustration for me as well as that 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:15.000 it's not to watch the country itself, although I would 0:20:15.040 --> 0:20:18.280 have loved to have visited like Scotland and you know, 0:20:18.359 --> 0:20:21.600 Whels and that kind of thing, but and all the 0:20:21.600 --> 0:20:24.600 stuff there is to see in London. But The biggest 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.600 frustration for me is that it's a it's a connection point. 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.000 You know, when you impose a visa like that, you 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.040 block people's connections other areas. One of the few direct 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:39.760 flights outside of this hemisphere, you know, to the European 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:42.840 and African hemisphere is through a flight to the UK. 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:45.720 And so by adding that in position, it's like it's 0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:48.080 like the world feels like it's being closed. 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:48.879 Yeah. 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:49.840 Yeah, you can see that. 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:52.600 One more where there was almost a time in the 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:54.919 recent past where it felt like or the world was 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.919 opening up to people, you know, with the Internet, the 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:00.199 rise of the Internet, and then you had, you know, 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:04.119 the introduction of things like the Shangan Agreement. Our access 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:06.760 the Shangan area was reairly recent I think it was 0:21:06.800 --> 0:21:09.959 twenty fifteen we got that access. Yeah, okay, But to 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.000 go from that point in to like just so quickly, 0:21:12.119 --> 0:21:16.199 you know, the tied shifts. So now there's extremely hostile 0:21:17.359 --> 0:21:21.800 global order towards something as fundamental as the movement of people. 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:24.320 Yeah, it's it definitely. 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:27.280 We definitely are entering it in like an era where 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:32.359 things are becoming more closed off again than many of 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:34.000 us grew up with, right, many of us you know, 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:37.280 I said, what most of my experience that I can 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:40.320 remember was being able to move freely through Europe, and 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.280 that's not the case anymore for British as citizens. Yeah, 0:21:43.359 --> 0:21:45.520 like it's getting visas and everything else is getting harder 0:21:45.560 --> 0:21:48.360 and harder to move around the world. And despite the 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:52.840 Internet somewhat connecting us, like, our physical mobility is certainly 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:54.000 much more limited. 0:21:54.680 --> 0:21:58.359 Indeed, I think the idea of cost and Paulson is 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:02.600 getting back to it, I think it's valuable. I think, 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:05.160 you know, the idea that we have obligations to others 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:09.159 beyond just our mediate affiliations is important. You know that 0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:11.720 human diversity is going to be valued, not just tolerated. 0:22:11.840 --> 0:22:16.320 That's fantastic. Carl Levy, an anarchist scholar who wrote two 0:22:16.320 --> 0:22:19.040 pieces on cosmopolitanism that a link in the show notes, 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:23.800 has argued that anarchism's history offers a third way between 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:28.320 the hierarchical globalism of liberal cosmopolitanism, which relies on state 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:34.040 driven global governance, and exclusionary nationalism, which weaponizes identity and borders, 0:22:34.200 --> 0:22:37.200 often in service to the far right, and that third 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:40.720 way that anarchism presents, not third way in the sense 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:45.600 of fascism. Third way, in the sense of anarchist possibilities, 0:22:46.040 --> 0:22:49.520 is a kind of federated pluralism, the web of self 0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:53.760 organized groups that interact freely without a central authority. This 0:22:53.880 --> 0:22:57.200 version isn't just theoretical. We've seen it in recent history 0:22:57.240 --> 0:23:01.200 through anti globalization protests, the Occupying movement, the Square movements 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:04.560 in Egypt, Spain and beyond and so flowed. They show 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:08.840 the potential, not yet fully realized, for diverse place based 0:23:08.840 --> 0:23:14.159 struggles that remain connected through mutuality and transnational solidarity. We 0:23:14.240 --> 0:23:18.400 have to avoid this sort of abstract universalism that can 0:23:18.400 --> 0:23:22.720 be found in cosmopolitan thought. We must incorporate decolonial struggles 0:23:22.760 --> 0:23:26.879 and crown cosmopolitan practice in the voluntary cooperation of people 0:23:27.160 --> 0:23:31.400 acted in solidarity across differences. Ultimately, the question isn't whether 0:23:31.440 --> 0:23:35.600 anarchists should engage a cosmopolitanism, because they always have. The 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:39.960 real question is how anarchists can cultivate a cosmopolitanism that 0:23:40.040 --> 0:23:45.000 is truly liberatory, when the connect struggles without eraise and difference, 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:49.960 foster solidarity without enforcing uniformity, and builds a world where 0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:56.399 cooperation and not domination, defines our relationships. That's what they 0:23:56.440 --> 0:23:59.159 have for today, or power to all the people. 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:06.800 It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:10.040