1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: As my research took me deeper into the heightst that 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: happened that night, I realized there were two people who 3 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: had a clear view of the events and who were 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: directly involved. One was J. D. Hudson, whom you met 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: in the last episode. The other was Chicken Man, a 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: hustler who was blamed for the heist and consequently had 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: a hit put on him by the higher ups in 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: the world of black organized crime. These two guys were 9 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: like two sides of the same coin, and just like J. D. Hudson, 10 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: I knew that in order to fully understand this world, 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: these players, and these events, I would have to find 12 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: out who Chicken Man was too, who he really was, 13 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: and how his life led him to be in the crosshairs. 14 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: The life of the hustler with my dad was he 15 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,480 Speaker 1: liked nice things, he liked to dress well, he liked 16 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: behind cars. So in order to have those things, he 17 00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 1: hustled me listen then, don't hear that? And the press 18 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 1: of made them bat We started moving a lout of marijuana. 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: Shipments start coming in really really big. I'm talking about 20 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: two tons three times. I matter one of the girls 21 00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: who would come by and say, I don't know his 22 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: name both I think he called Chicken Man man from 23 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio and Doghouse Pictures. This is Fight Night. 24 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: I'm Jeff Keating. In episode one, we found out that 25 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: Chicken Man had been killed in a supposed gangling assassination 26 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: according to the New York Times and numerous other sources. Luckily, 27 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: I was able to track down his son, Gordon Williams Jr. 28 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: To help me fill in the missing pieces of his 29 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: dad's story. Well, the early year is where my dad 30 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: growing up. My dad was in the military, of course, 31 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: but I was so young, I really don't remember his 32 00:01:57,160 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: military years. But when he came home, Dad when his 33 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:06,320 Speaker 1: hustling started, and it started as bootlegging, wound shining, and 34 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: that turned into number writing, which is now a forming 35 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: of Georgia Lottery, because Georgia Lottery ran a lot of 36 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: the number bookies out of the business. That's right. Chicken 37 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 1: Man's first major source of income as a hustler was 38 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: the illegal lottery, also known at that time is playing 39 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: the numbers or the bug. You get the individual who 40 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: plays the numbers, And they called my dad, Hey, listen, 41 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 1: my numbers already, come pick them up, just like cash 42 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 1: three today you go buy and you pick your numbers up. 43 00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:40,679 Speaker 1: Here's the story in Dr Maurice Hopson. The lottery in 44 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: the black community, often known as the bug, was a 45 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:46,560 Speaker 1: real source of income. Someone will play a number, they 46 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: will be able to win three to four hundred times 47 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: the amount that they put down. It allowed for the 48 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,520 Speaker 1: lucky ones to actually gettin some income to do some 49 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 1: of the things that they wanted to do. I mean 50 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 1: whether it's to pay bills or buy a new car 51 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 1: or whatever whatnot. So it was a real stream of income, 52 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,079 Speaker 1: and it was believed to be a stream of income, 53 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: but it was a risky way to make a living. 54 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 1: And Chicken Man knew that the easiest way to get 55 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 1: busted for running numbers was getting caught with the actual 56 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: list of players names and their picks, known as the ribbon. 57 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: But Chicken Man figured out an innovative way to get 58 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: rid of the evidence. He printed his ribbon on flash 59 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,359 Speaker 1: paper and he wrote these numbers down on this piece 60 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: of paper and lit it with a cigarette lighter and 61 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: threw it in the air and there was no ashes. 62 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 1: And I was like, oh my god, this is so. 63 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: I was gonna back back then, I was in school, 64 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: I was gonna take it the show and tail saying 65 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 1: you know, I was a show to people that hey, 66 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: I got paper that can disappear in the air. But 67 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: that became real popular because if you get caught with 68 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: those not what you're going to jail. Before the Georgia 69 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: Lottery essentially legitimized number running in the state and forced 70 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: hustlers like Chicken Man to look for other ways to 71 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: make money. The numbers were an important source of revenue 72 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: within the black community. Here's Dr Hobson. The lottery becomes 73 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: not only a source of revenue, it becomes a vehicle 74 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: to an aspect of prosperity in a particular kind of way, 75 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: and so people embody the numbers. The number runners or 76 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: men and women in the community were seen as pull 77 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 1: as in the community because they always have money. They 78 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: made sure that people, you know I had food, They 79 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,039 Speaker 1: buried the day, they took care of the sick, They 80 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: gave little kids money. So even though it's criminal activity, 81 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: they're not seen as criminals per se. One of the 82 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: biggest lottery men in Atlanta was Wesley Merit. He was 83 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: known around town as a banker because not only did 84 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: he finance and profit from his illegal operations. He also 85 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: loaned money to members of the black community who couldn't 86 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: go to an actual bank. Here's Chicken Man's son, Gordon 87 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: Williams Jr. Western Mayor was like the mayor of Atlanta 88 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: is one of the biggest bankers in Atlanta. You know 89 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: what I mean. Everybody to Wesley Merrit for everything. If 90 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: you needed help, you needed some money, West the Merit 91 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: will help you out. He would help you. You would 92 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: have to pay him back, of course. But Western Merritt 93 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,040 Speaker 1: was a very good guy, a good friend of my dad. 94 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: My dad respected him. He was not a very flamboy 95 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,359 Speaker 1: and a flashy kind of person. Quiet man loved where 96 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: you know, a colored white shirt, starched blue overalls, and 97 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,719 Speaker 1: shine shoes. And so that was his trademark is you know, 98 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: to be clean but not flashy. Merritt was also known 99 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: for taking care of the sick, for burying the dead, 100 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,600 Speaker 1: for sending children to schools, for feeding the hungry. He 101 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: was considered to be the kind of person who could 102 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:40,000 Speaker 1: prop up of community. He was known for putting lights 103 00:05:40,520 --> 00:05:43,919 Speaker 1: on streets that didn't have lights. He was instrumental in 104 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 1: trying to help roads get paved in the black community. 105 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 1: He was committed and dedicated to Black communities flourishing and 106 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 1: was willing to step in and ways in which the 107 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: city of Atlanta had failed black communities. Even Detective J. D. Hudson, 108 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: a no nonsense cop whose job it was to chase 109 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: down and arrest criminals, saw the value in hustlers like 110 00:06:05,520 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 1: chicken Men and Wesley Merrit taking care of their own community. 111 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: You take a hustler and put them here, and then 112 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: you take the president and hustler hustling put them over here. 113 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,160 Speaker 1: The two divent. It is so the best citizen in 114 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: the city. They go to church, they spend money at church, 115 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: They feed the hungred, they be rent, they support the 116 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 1: wime seated Red Cross. They send that you're in the college, 117 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: but they don't hear. The hustlers and the press have 118 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: made them bad people, hi criminals. Wesley Merrit also owned 119 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: a pool hall on Hunter Street that was a very 120 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: popular meeting place for diverse cross section of the black community. 121 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 1: You have your ministers that would come that way. You 122 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 1: would have your entertainers who would come to town. They 123 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: would frequent Wesley Merits pool hall. You have your politicians 124 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: that would come to the spot. You have your businessmen 125 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: shoot a couple of rounds of pool and have a 126 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: couple of drinks, smoke a cigar or something of that nature. 127 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: But it also brought in the hustling community in Atlanta, 128 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,080 Speaker 1: I mean bootleggers, other number runners, you know, pimping and pandering, 129 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: all aspects of the game, money, laundry, all kind of 130 00:07:21,640 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: things took place in these pool halls, and all kinds 131 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 1: of characters hung around this pool hall, hustlers we've already mentioned, 132 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: like Fireball and Buddy Gloss and of course Chicken Man. 133 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:36,679 Speaker 1: J D remembers the first time he ever met Chicken 134 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: Man at a restaurant across the street from the historically 135 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: black Clark Atlanta University. But it wasn't what you call 136 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: a friendly encounter. That makes Chicken Man. When I was 137 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: a rook at policeman, I was in a Capital restaurant, 138 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: a frostrate from the school and in a Hubcami and 139 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: asked me to get out of my seat. They did nothing, 140 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: And I guess, look at us is because that's truly 141 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: in the streets and spina who got to spend, You 142 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: got spreended. And that was the first time that you 143 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: met Chicken Man. Yeah, he was. He was devided god 144 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: of the Husbus. Papa Chicken Man was with Short Papa 145 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,239 Speaker 1: a k a. Robert Vambrose and they were actually hitting 146 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: on j D's girlfriend. J D gave Short Papa quite 147 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: the beating after being disrespected, which led to Chicken Man 148 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: testifying against j D and court as a witness to 149 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 1: the assault. But j D never held a grudge against 150 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: him because Chicken Man told the truth and j D 151 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: valued honesty. The Chicken Man's testimony led to j d's suspension. 152 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: The two would eventually form a friendship. The hit on 153 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 1: Chicken Man was still weighing on my mind. After spending 154 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 1: time with his son, Gordon Williams Jr. I was starting 155 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: to develop a real picture of the man who hosted 156 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: the infamous Fight Night after party. The robbery of this 157 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 1: party would ultimately get him killed, according to a New 158 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 1: York Times article. But was the hit justified? Had he 159 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: organized the robbery or was he just another victim? To 160 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: find out, I needed to learn more about Chicken Man's 161 00:09:27,720 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: past and his life as a hustler. My dad always 162 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: was chasing a dollar from Bootleg and Moon China to 163 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: write numbers to drugs and it became lucrative for him, 164 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 1: and it helped us have a good lifestyle. Also, the 165 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: lag and fall suss like that you're big on the 166 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: top and you get locked up, you lose a big set, 167 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: you get overhead and you go down, and you get 168 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 1: the work back up and you go down. I think 169 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:58,959 Speaker 1: that with the life of rustle, the life of the 170 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: hustler with my dad was he liked nice things. He 171 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: loved nice things, he liked to dress well, he liked jury, 172 00:10:06,360 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: he liked find cars, women. So in order to have 173 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 1: those things, he hustled, and that in turn led to 174 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: him hustling more and more. There was times that I 175 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: don't even think he would sleep. He would just go, go, go, 176 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: go go. It was phenomenal watching him just go from 177 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: doing numbers and bootleg too drugs because it was a 178 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: whole different lifestyle and the money was coming so fast. 179 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 1: The money was coming, like extremely fast into the house. 180 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,239 Speaker 1: I learned from Chicken men Son that in their communities 181 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: hustling was considered a business, not a criminal activity. I 182 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: remember he was dating a lady one time called Ola May, 183 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: and she was a shoplifter and she had three daughters 184 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: and all three the door to shoplifted, and they would 185 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: dress up in really fine, nice clothes and they would 186 00:10:56,160 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: go to Landry Square. And I remember Ola May getting 187 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: a tuxedle for me for my junior singer pram So. 188 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: My dad, he was into a lot of different aspects 189 00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: of hustling, but soon Chicken Man started getting into the 190 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,880 Speaker 1: far more risky and lucrative world of drug dealing. It 191 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: all started with smuggling marijuana out of one of the 192 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: country's most notorious drug mechas, Miami, Florida. My dad, he 193 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 1: liked Miami. My dad was one of the only black 194 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: members in the Jockey Club in Miami. They only had 195 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 1: three black members Sammy Davis Junior, Muhammad Ali and my Dad. 196 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: That's how powerful this guy was. The Jockey Club and 197 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: the Cricket Club. But he was one of the three 198 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: black members in that era. And and liking to go 199 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: to Miami, he met drug dealers. He met this one 200 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: particular guy. And this guy was a record producer, real 201 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: powerful guy in Miami, real powerful. He had marijuana connections, 202 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 1: cocaine connection and he liked my dad. He loved my dad. Well, 203 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,839 Speaker 1: I speak Spanish fluently because I married a Cuban. I 204 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: would translate for my dad. So we were by the 205 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: marijuana from him and we would bringing to Atlanta, we 206 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: take it to Chattanooga, we take it up to Detroit, 207 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: and doing that we started moving a lout of marijuana. 208 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: They started talking about bigger shipments, and shipments started coming 209 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: in really really big. I'm talking about two tons, three 210 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:32,719 Speaker 1: tons of marijuana. Chicken Men's business was booming, but it 211 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: wasn't without some close calls. Here's Gordon Williams Jr. With 212 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: his car up with marijuana, and we're in Florida, because 213 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: that's what most of our business all came from. And 214 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: my dad had bought a condo in Inverary, which is 215 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: owned by Jackie Gleasa back at the time, really exclusive neighborhood, 216 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,079 Speaker 1: really exclusive, and we were getting ready to leave to 217 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: come to Atlanta. In Florida, you know what they're saying everywhere. 218 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 1: He got stuck in the sand with the marijuana and 219 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: we were trying to figure out how we're gonna get 220 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 1: out of this, and a cop came along and helped 221 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: us get out of the hole without accident, not a question, 222 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: and and my dad was like, oh God, man, I 223 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: can't believe this. And the cop pulled us out of 224 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,839 Speaker 1: the sand and said, y'all have a great day. This 225 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: wasn't the only example of chicken me and leading a 226 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: charmed life. Well, we had got so much marijuana that 227 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,840 Speaker 1: there was marijuana still left in Atlanta, but we were 228 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: in Miami picking up another thousand pounds of marijuana. So 229 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: we're taking the back rolls coming through Cluiston, Florida, because 230 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 1: we didn't want to go to Turnpike. So the van 231 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: smelt like marijuana because the van was full full, I 232 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: mean from the back all the way to the front. 233 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: So we're taking twenty nine coming through Okachobee, coming up 234 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: the back rows and there's a cow in the middle 235 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 1: of the highway and we damn smash it. And we 236 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: smashed the cow. My dad said, oh, ship, what are 237 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: we gonna do? He said, well, let's go to the 238 00:14:01,679 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: gas station. The water was coming out, was running hot 239 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: and everything, and we parked there and we asked the 240 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,079 Speaker 1: guy there, could he fix the van? He said, yeah, 241 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: we actually did have a car we could use. You know, sure, 242 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: I got a car you can use. We transferred the 243 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: marijuana right there in the back of the gas station 244 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: from the van to the car, put it in the 245 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: trunk and in the back seat and drove to Atlanta 246 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,720 Speaker 1: with bales of marijuana in the back seat. Chicken Man's 247 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: luck also seemed to extend to those closest to him. 248 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: My dad had friends who got robbed, and he had 249 00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: friends who got killed as a result of the drug business, 250 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 1: but not an own circle. Never an own circle. My 251 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: dad never carried a gun, never carried a gun, and 252 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: whenever he wanted to do business, he never had a pistol, 253 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: and the people who he did business with never had 254 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 1: guns because if there was a gun, president that deal 255 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 1: was off. Never used the scale, trusted that it was 256 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: a thousand pounds or whatever it was. Give them money, 257 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: they would never count it. That's it was that type 258 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: of trust between the drug dealers and my dad. It 259 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: was always trust. It was you know, I knew your family, 260 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: you knew my family. I knew your kids, you knew 261 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:14,000 Speaker 1: my kids. I knew your wife, you know my wife. 262 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: I was starting to get an idea of who Chicken 263 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: Man was and the life he led as a hustler. 264 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: But I was curious how did he get his nickname. 265 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,000 Speaker 1: The way my dad got the name Chicken Man was 266 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 1: that was Pascal Brothers. Of course it's no longer there anymore. 267 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: But my dad would buy the young girls chicken sandwiches. 268 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: So when the girls would come by and he saw 269 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: a girl that he fancy or he was trying to 270 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: get with, he is that baby he wanted chicken sandwich, 271 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: and yeah, baby, give me a chicken sandwich. So he 272 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,760 Speaker 1: will buy him a chicken sandwich. So in turn, the 273 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: girls who would come by and say, I don't know 274 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: his name, but I think they called him chicken Man. 275 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: And that's how the name started. That chicken stand would 276 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: grow into Pascal's Restaurants, famous for their fried chicken. Pascals 277 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 1: became a main on Hunter Street. Here's Dr Hobson. Paschal 278 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: started between two brothers whose mother taught them to cook. 279 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: Both of the brothers began to cook, but one of 280 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: them married and basically would cook food for the youth 281 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: at the Atlantic University Center out of his kitchen at home. Well, 282 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 1: it got to be overwhelming, particularly with this student movement 283 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 1: and all kind of different things. The Pascal brothers realized 284 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: that they can that they can really make this into 285 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: a restaurant. Their location on West Hunter Street, which is 286 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:34,120 Speaker 1: not Martin Luther King Drive was on the edge of 287 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,240 Speaker 1: the Atlantic University Center. So of course it's going to 288 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 1: be overwhelming black and said the historically black part of town. 289 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: So the thing about it is Paschals would allow for 290 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: political folk to kind of come in and have discussions. 291 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: The one caveat was that you had to order the 292 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: fried chicken and you had to tell everyone that the 293 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: fried chicken was the best fried chicken in the land. 294 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 1: Pascal's was the meeting place for black people. Anybody who 295 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: was somebody would pass through Pascals. This is Bunny Jackson Ransom, 296 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: the former wife of Maynard Jackson, who was the first 297 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: black mayor of Atlanta. There was a kind of bar restaurant. 298 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: Then you could go sit down and have breakfast, and 299 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: if you sit there long enough, anybody who was anybody 300 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: who was black, we're going to pass through Pascals. Then 301 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: there was a room further down the hall where you 302 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,840 Speaker 1: could go and have a private party. And of course 303 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: there was a hotel that came later, Pastor's Hotel. I 304 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: think I might have had a couple of parties there, 305 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:42,960 Speaker 1: like the ladies would have their Bridge Club parties there. 306 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: Pascal's had a wide variety of clientele that would come there. 307 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: It was hustlers, it was politicians, it was businessman, it 308 00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,560 Speaker 1: was family. It was people like Chicken Man that would 309 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: come for the great fried chicken and the great conversation 310 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,119 Speaker 1: and sometimes business deal is in the back room. The 311 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: first time that I heard the word hustler was when 312 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: my dad took me to see the Hustler with Paul Newman. 313 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: I'm gonna beat him, Mr. I beat him all night 314 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna beat him all day. But this was 315 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: something completely different. These hustlers were from a world I 316 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: knew nothing about, and I was about to get a 317 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 1: first hand education. Everything I heard about Chicken Man told 318 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: me he was highly intelligent and extremely resourceful. Here's his son, 319 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: Gordon Williams Jr. Whatever it was he set out to do, 320 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,040 Speaker 1: he did it. We were hollyday marijuana who wanted to 321 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 1: be just like a trucking business, so we bought cars 322 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: with CBS and I mean with false bottom gas tanks. 323 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 1: He did stuff that was way before people was thinking 324 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,119 Speaker 1: about it, and I was like, this guy is really smart, 325 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 1: really really smart. When we were transporting drugs from Miami 326 00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: to Atlanta, he would have one car empty, which would 327 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: be the league car and the next car would be full. 328 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: And we had CB radios and so that way we 329 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,160 Speaker 1: could notify the person behind us if there's a state 330 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: trooper up or anything like that. Most of the time, 331 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: the people that were driving the cars with the drugs 332 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: never had a truck key. They never could open it, 333 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 1: and a lot of times they never knew what they 334 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: were they were transporting. So my dad would just say, listen, 335 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: you know, you want to make five three hundred dollars 336 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: to drive this car from Miami. There's such and such, 337 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: you know, don't worry about the trunk. Open the trunk. 338 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 1: I mean that he did that for many, many years. 339 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: J D believed that hustlers were often underestimated. But that 340 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 1: is a mistake he would never make. You see, please 341 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: let them think the hustles are done. But there's some 342 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: response people you want to need in your life. I 343 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,160 Speaker 1: always recognize that that's about to catch him. I never 344 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: thought they were done. When it was announced that Muhammad 345 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: Ali would fight Jerry Korey in Atlanta in October of 346 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, the big time hustlers in New York thought 347 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: it would be a perfect time to throw an after 348 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: hours party and Chicken Man's friend Fireball, asked him to 349 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 1: help organize and host the party. Five artists of guys 350 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: lived in Atlanta in the Northeast area that and so 351 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: called Terment Bottom area, and left Atlanta and went to 352 00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: New York and the game hustler, drug dealer um lot 353 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 1: remains and the five all want to throw a thick 354 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: party and Atlanta after the fright. So he uh present 355 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:46,040 Speaker 1: invitations and passed them out to all. It may have 356 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:52,040 Speaker 1: been Fab five has written up or printed these engraved 357 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: invitation had passed them out after the Ali fight had ended. No, 358 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: they were past about trip to the fight. Prior to 359 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: the fight. Yeah, mat fact, we were able to uh 360 00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: not on to find out who had been, but they 361 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: made we learned where they were. Frank. When I spoke 362 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: with Gordon Williams Jr. I asked him about some of 363 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:21,240 Speaker 1: the names involved in the party and the robbery, including 364 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: his dad's friends Fireball. Fireball was, I mean, he was 365 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 1: a hustler, and he was a friend of my dad's, 366 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: and he was somebody and my dad looked up to. 367 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 1: He got his name through I think trying to cook 368 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: cocaine or something like that. He got his name Fireball. 369 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: Another name that came up in my investigation was Buddy Gloss. 370 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: Buddy Gloss now I knew him well. I knew Buddy 371 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,880 Speaker 1: Gloss well. He was a good friend of my dad 372 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: and our family. So Buddy was he was always competing 373 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: with my dad. It was it was like a competition. 374 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: If my dad didn't numbers, but he did numbers. If 375 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: my dad did marijuana, Buddy did. My dad did cocaine Buddy, 376 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: So they were always in competition with each other. And 377 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: also Frank Moten, a top guy in an organization often 378 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: referred to as the Black Mafia and one of the 379 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 1: higher level gangsters of the party. All of these names 380 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,280 Speaker 1: are going to be important, but especially Frank Moten, who 381 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: was known as the Black Godfather. He was reportedly the 382 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: leader of the Council of Twelve, a group of top 383 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: level decision makers for black organized crime. Back at j 384 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 1: D's house, we had barely gotten into the story of 385 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: the robbery itself. He had told me about some of 386 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: the key players, how the party came together, and I 387 00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: knew where all this was heading Chicken Man's murder at 388 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: the hands of the Black Mafia. So I pulled out 389 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: the article again. This is from the New York Times Wednesday, October. 390 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,840 Speaker 1: Informed sources associated with the police department suggested today that 391 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: Williams is dead as there was sold of a contract 392 00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 1: released on him Gangland Terminology for an arrangement of his murder. 393 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 1: But what j D told me next would change everything. Okay, 394 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: so he see this article. I thinks we're going be 395 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: done within two days of the robberts. Jay was right, 396 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:28,120 Speaker 1: that's wrong, Oh thin Man, Jesse May, It's a lot. 397 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: Now Chicken Man was alive. I couldn't believe what I 398 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:41,119 Speaker 1: was hearing. The key to understanding what really happened the 399 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: night of the Ali Quarry fight was alive. Now I 400 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: had to track Chicken Man down and get his side 401 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: of the story. Fight Night is a joint production from 402 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, Opacker Media and Doghouse Pictures in association 403 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: with Psychopia Pictures. Produced and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive 404 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:11,359 Speaker 1: producers are Will Packer, James Lopez, Kenny Burns, Dan Bush, 405 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 1: Lars Jacobsen, and Noel Brown. Supervising producers Taylor Shacoyne. Story 406 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 1: editors are Noel Brown and Dan Bush. Written by Jeff 407 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 1: Keating and Jim Roberts, edited by Matt Owen. Mixing and 408 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,480 Speaker 1: sound designed by Jeremiah Kolonnie Prescott. Music written and performed 409 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: by The Diamond Street Players. Additional music by Ben Lovett. 410 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: Audio archives courtesy of WSB News Film and Video Tape Collection, 411 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 1: Brown Media Archives, University of Georgia Libraries. Special thanks to 412 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: Dr Maurice Hobson and David Davis