WEBVTT - Identity w/ Mary Stuart Masterson

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<v Speaker 1>Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.

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<v Speaker 2>We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the

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<v Speaker 2>vicious felonies.

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<v Speaker 1>These episodes are based on.

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<v Speaker 3>These are our stories, done done.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, welcome to That's Messed Up an sv podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Lisa, my name is Kara. And it

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<v Speaker 1>took too long of a pause. And you know how

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<v Speaker 1>we do this. Every week we examine an episode of

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<v Speaker 1>SVU the true Crimeate was based on and talked to

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<v Speaker 1>some amazing star who was in that episode. And today's

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<v Speaker 1>no different. We're excited for our guest. And I know

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<v Speaker 1>you guys already got an episode since the Drag Race finale.

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<v Speaker 1>You were probably expecting us to tackle it then, but

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<v Speaker 1>we the order that we're recording, this is when you're

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<v Speaker 1>getting it. So if you don't want to know who

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<v Speaker 1>won drag Race, I don't know, get off the internet

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<v Speaker 1>and stop listening to this podcast for the next five minutes.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's impossible. Well, you have to try not

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<v Speaker 2>to see it. You have to try hard not to

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<v Speaker 2>get a drag Race spoiler.

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<v Speaker 1>But Lisa called it. I was sort of going for

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<v Speaker 1>got mic just because I would have loved to have

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<v Speaker 1>seen Simone on All Stars.

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<v Speaker 2>Now Simone straight up like when she came out in

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<v Speaker 2>the handkerchief dress, A tear in my eye like I was,

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<v Speaker 2>I was, I was blown away.

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<v Speaker 1>Also, Lisa was watching this at my house with me

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<v Speaker 1>and two other friends, and I just want to tell

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<v Speaker 1>you guys that when they were talking about like the

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<v Speaker 1>lip syncs tonight are going to be by one artist,

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<v Speaker 1>Lisa had her head in her hands and was like

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<v Speaker 1>waiting for them to say, and they were like the

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<v Speaker 1>one and only Britney Spears, and she was just like,

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<v Speaker 1>oh my god, it.

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<v Speaker 2>Was like it was too good to be true that

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<v Speaker 2>it was with me. It was awesome. It was so

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<v Speaker 2>so good. And I saw that she is the most

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<v Speaker 2>lip SYNCD artist of all of drag Race.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. She has even her like B sides

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<v Speaker 1>that I don't I mean, I won't say Till the

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<v Speaker 1>World Ends is one of my favorites, or like you know,

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<v Speaker 1>but if you pop a Maali, I think it'll be wine.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>When they started sticking to it, I was like, this

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<v Speaker 1>slap's just like every Britney song you know, like.

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<v Speaker 2>It is, uh, it is very very good. But I

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<v Speaker 2>love got mic but she did lose the lip sync.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, it is what it is. But also I

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<v Speaker 2>would have loved a final two of Got Mixed Simon.

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<v Speaker 1>But the wheel is wild. That's I mean literally. Our

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<v Speaker 1>friend Joel Kim Booster was like tweeting, can they not

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<v Speaker 1>rig the wheel? I don't understand, like does this show

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<v Speaker 1>not have the money to rig the wheel? And I've

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<v Speaker 1>never I didn't. I never worked on the finale because

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<v Speaker 1>I was gonna work on this the finale of season

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<v Speaker 1>eleven and I had just just had my baby and

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<v Speaker 1>they were like can you work on this? And I

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<v Speaker 1>was like, can you give me like two weeks like

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<v Speaker 1>have might like be with my baby. So I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>work on that finale. But I don't think that they

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<v Speaker 1>do rig it. I think that it is just like

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<v Speaker 1>being spun. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>But also in the past, they made the queens choose who,

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<v Speaker 2>like if it rolled on, you think you got to

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<v Speaker 2>choose who you got who you want, So this was

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<v Speaker 2>an extra twist that there's no one has control over anything.

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<v Speaker 1>It's all wheel based. Yeah, And I think this is

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<v Speaker 1>what they did with the Silky season because I remember

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<v Speaker 1>people thinking like, oh, this knocks out like a person

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<v Speaker 1>you thought was going to be in the top two whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, Candy muse as number two overall is surprising.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean people are going to be shocked by that. Well.

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<v Speaker 2>I was listening to the Pit Stop with Trixy and

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<v Speaker 2>Katya and they did sell Candy's reveal.

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<v Speaker 1>They're like, Rose's reveal.

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<v Speaker 2>Was very obvious and Candy muses with the white and

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<v Speaker 2>the colorful.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a surprise. It was like a reveal you

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<v Speaker 1>didn't see coming.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean the Simone reveal where it's like, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a giant wig, there'll be a wig underneath, and

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<v Speaker 2>then instead it was like ribbon flyers in a cert.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean that it was like a propeller or something. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>it was wild. It was so good.

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<v Speaker 2>But I love the nail look with the hands holding

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<v Speaker 2>the pigtails. It's just artistry at its finest. Simone is

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<v Speaker 2>reference on reference. Like today, I was looking at the

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<v Speaker 2>details of the wig. Gigi Good made her wig and

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<v Speaker 2>like there was finger waves, and then when you look

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<v Speaker 2>at the nail dress, you're like, oh, it is a

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<v Speaker 2>twenty style flapper and she has finger waves like it

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<v Speaker 2>is reference. And then like the Medusa look with the

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<v Speaker 2>jewelry on the armor.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean it's just so.

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<v Speaker 2>Thought out and beautiful and incredible, and I'm really proud

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<v Speaker 2>of her.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it was a fun finale. I mean, look,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's not the same I was saying, it's not

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<v Speaker 1>the same energy as the past finales where there's other

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<v Speaker 1>queens in the audience and their parents are in the

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<v Speaker 1>audience and it's really fun. But it was like for COVID,

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<v Speaker 1>it was I thought it was better than doing it

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<v Speaker 1>on zoom.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, well we also got to see like

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<v Speaker 2>magnificent outfits, like each of those outfits are like ten

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<v Speaker 2>thousand dollars like those or maybe I'm just saying that,

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<v Speaker 2>Please don't don't quote me, but it was to have

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<v Speaker 2>a fashion show of that caliber.

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<v Speaker 1>Was Yeah, it was basically a ball. They just like

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<v Speaker 1>did a ball for the finale, which is fun. We

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<v Speaker 1>didn't love the Bet Middler number, which is weird because

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<v Speaker 1>we love Bette Midler, but that was not for us. No,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't need them singing in BOYD looks. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>need that at all.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't need this little I don't know if any

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<v Speaker 2>of them connect with Bet in anyway. It was I

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<v Speaker 2>understand the AIDS message but I would have read it.

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<v Speaker 2>There had a queen song and we do love bet.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't, I didn't understand.

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<v Speaker 1>So what else is happening? I am extremely jealous because

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<v Speaker 1>you and one of our other friends are going to

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<v Speaker 1>New York next week. I miss New York so much, everyone,

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<v Speaker 1>my friend. I just talked to my sister. She said

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<v Speaker 1>it was pretty glorious to New York this past weekend.

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<v Speaker 1>Like whether I.

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<v Speaker 2>Mean, I'm arriving on a Tuesday and I'm leaving on

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<v Speaker 2>a Thursday.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's be honest with you know the quick.

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<v Speaker 2>But yeah, am I staying at a magnificent hotel that

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<v Speaker 2>a network is paying for?

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<v Speaker 1>That's right?

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<v Speaker 2>Did I already make drinks and dinner reservations? I sure did?

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm excited. Yeah, I'm excited, and I'm going to

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<v Speaker 2>go to my coffee shop. I lived across the street

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<v Speaker 2>from a coffee shop, Claudia's What's Up Bushwick av It

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<v Speaker 2>used to be called se Lo, but I went there

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<v Speaker 2>at least five times a week. Like when I moved,

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<v Speaker 2>people were like, how are they going to stay afloat?

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<v Speaker 2>I was ordering full banana breads for any party I

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<v Speaker 2>ever was invited to the cold brew. I still dream

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<v Speaker 2>about the breakfast burrito. It's Guatemalan food. I love every

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<v Speaker 2>I just cannot wait to go to my place that

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<v Speaker 2>New York oh here too. I like being a regular,

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<v Speaker 2>That's like part of my passion. Yes, I like a neighborhood.

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<v Speaker 2>I like being a regular. I like waving. I like

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<v Speaker 2>people knowing what's up. I like sometimes I would go

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<v Speaker 2>there without any clothes on, and I would just throw

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<v Speaker 2>on a jacket and go in no pants, and like, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Like that, that's insane.

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<v Speaker 2>What well, sometimes because I'd roll out and I was

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<v Speaker 2>like in my heavy stoner days, and I would just

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<v Speaker 2>be like, I just put on a coat and bugs

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<v Speaker 2>and walk on over.

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<v Speaker 1>You wouldn't feel like maybe I should throw on a

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<v Speaker 1>pair of like box or like nighttime shorts or something

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<v Speaker 1>to cover my no, because I have my coat. Wow,

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<v Speaker 1>if you were wearing a dress, you wouldn't have to

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<v Speaker 1>wear shorts. I just there's something about just being naked

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<v Speaker 1>under a coat going to albodega. To me, that is

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<v Speaker 1>nice bodgaf coffee shop. But I'm thinking of my personal bodega,

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<v Speaker 1>which is where that was my regular place. And if

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<v Speaker 1>I had walked in there in like a coat, bare legged.

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<v Speaker 1>They would have been like, are you okay? Do you

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<v Speaker 1>need us to call your sister?

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<v Speaker 5>Like that's like an SPU character off.

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<v Speaker 2>I did not anticipate this reaction. This is like the

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<v Speaker 2>silverware debacle, because I I totally thought that would be

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<v Speaker 2>a throwaway line of me just talking about how I'm

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<v Speaker 2>such a regular I didn't need to put on collies.

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<v Speaker 1>All these things you think are regular throwaway lines are

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<v Speaker 1>shocking to me. This keeps happening where yeah, I just

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<v Speaker 1>like I would be. I have like an act of

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<v Speaker 1>like imagination where I'm like, okay, so what if I

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<v Speaker 1>got locked out? I guess I could just go down

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<v Speaker 1>there in my coat and my underwear. But what if

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<v Speaker 1>I get locked out? What if I have to chase

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<v Speaker 1>somebody who steals my wallet down the street and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>in my underwear, Like I don't know, I just are

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<v Speaker 1>you wearing underwear under the coat or are you just yeah, okay?

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<v Speaker 1>I got my Calvin's on. Wow, Liza, But it did

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<v Speaker 1>remind me. So you saw.

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<v Speaker 2>So my freshman year in college, roommate, I like I

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<v Speaker 2>had all these miscalls. I exited class and I had

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<v Speaker 2>all these miscalls from her, and I called her back

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<v Speaker 2>and she was livid at me because I guess she

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<v Speaker 2>was in the shower that we all shared and I

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<v Speaker 2>locked the door as I left to go to class,

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<v Speaker 2>and so she was like, I had to go to

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<v Speaker 2>my towel downstairs, and like yelled, and I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm so sorry. I didn't know. I wouldn't have locked it.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't understand what door did you lock to our dorm?

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<v Speaker 1>We shared a dorm. Oh oh, and did you were

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<v Speaker 1>she was in the communal shower? Yeah? I was like, well,

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<v Speaker 1>the immigrant in me was like what am I saying?

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<v Speaker 2>What? No?

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<v Speaker 1>And I feel for her because you know what happened

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<v Speaker 1>to me. I think this is the reason why this

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing triggers me. When I was in eighth grade,

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<v Speaker 1>we went to Washington, d C. The entire class on

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<v Speaker 1>a trip. My mom bought me this like weirdly silky

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<v Speaker 1>Christian door, like and not designer Christian door like Macy's

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<v Speaker 1>rack Christian door or whatever, short silky bathrobe, and so like,

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<v Speaker 1>I brought it with me on the trip. We all

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<v Speaker 1>get there, we're all checking in a hotel. We're like

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<v Speaker 1>in eighth grade, we can't believe we get to stay

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<v Speaker 1>in hotel rooms with our friends. I put this like

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<v Speaker 1>robe on and go to another friend's room or something.

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<v Speaker 1>And then I come back and my friends have left

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<v Speaker 1>the room, and I'm in the hallway with my entire

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<v Speaker 1>class filing past me in a silky short robe and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm naked underneath. So you're basically telling me that you're

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<v Speaker 1>doing my eighth grade DC trip to the bodega or

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<v Speaker 1>the coffee shop, like.

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<v Speaker 2>All the time, and it's just it's thrown me for

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<v Speaker 2>a lot. Wait did your student Did your peers say anything?

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, they were all like and I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>oh my god, this is my fucking nightmare. I mean

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<v Speaker 1>I had braces like it was.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, no, but Kara, my story gets dark. She refused

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<v Speaker 2>to speak to me. She did not accept my apology,

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<v Speaker 2>and she stopped talking to me fully, and I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>want to live in a room with someone that ignored me,

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<v Speaker 2>and I kept being like, girl, it was an accident, Like.

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<v Speaker 1>You can't really do this a little bit much. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>that's a that's a common mistake.

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<v Speaker 2>So then I ruined her life until she moved out. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>I put photos of myself all over the room. I

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<v Speaker 2>like blared music. I would blow dry my hair in

0:10:39.600 --> 0:10:41.720
<v Speaker 2>the morning like we were on a full out war.

0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:44.840
<v Speaker 2>And then she moved away and ripped my White Sox

0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:46.880
<v Speaker 2>World Series posters.

0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.480
<v Speaker 1>But wow, she knew how to get you wear.

0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:54.520
<v Speaker 2>It hurts, but you know, I acted insane, Like I'm

0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:56.280
<v Speaker 2>sure she tells people like, oh, I lived with a

0:10:56.400 --> 0:11:00.400
<v Speaker 2>lunatic who like ruined my life and moved to the

0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.560
<v Speaker 2>TV whatever, But in my head, it's like, just accept

0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:06.319
<v Speaker 2>my apology, like no, whatever.

0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:08.560
<v Speaker 1>That's also because that's one of those things where it's like,

0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:10.080
<v Speaker 1>what if you had left the door open and you

0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:11.719
<v Speaker 1>guys had gotten robbed, and it would have been like,

0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:13.160
<v Speaker 1>but I left the door open because you were in

0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:13.600
<v Speaker 1>the shower.

0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.440
<v Speaker 2>Like no, she was like, where else would I have been?

0:11:16.480 --> 0:11:19.360
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like, I don't know. See, the thing I

0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:21.760
<v Speaker 1>liked about our dorms in college was we had codes

0:11:21.920 --> 0:11:25.560
<v Speaker 1>to get in. Every room was coded, so like you

0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.040
<v Speaker 1>didn't have to have keys or anything.

0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:28.040
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:11:28.600 --> 0:11:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Loved it. But then of course everybody knew your code,

0:11:31.120 --> 0:11:35.400
<v Speaker 1>so the security was low. Lily Milly. That was her name,

0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.640
<v Speaker 1>Lily Milly. Oh my god, stop making up names. Liza, No,

0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:39.640
<v Speaker 1>it was no.

0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:41.280
<v Speaker 2>She had her last name I'm not going to say it,

0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:45.240
<v Speaker 2>but oh that was her middle name. Okay, okay, I

0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:48.679
<v Speaker 2>know Hannah is giving me this shut your fucking mouth sims.

0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.679
<v Speaker 1>Can we beat it? But that does sound like a

0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:55.000
<v Speaker 1>child's like toy line, like did you get the latest

0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:59.240
<v Speaker 1>Lily Milly? Okay, we should get started, because we have

0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:02.400
<v Speaker 1>a great episode for you today, a real barn Burner

0:12:02.840 --> 0:12:05.880
<v Speaker 1>that's from big business. Didn't I say barn burner one

0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:07.480
<v Speaker 1>time and you said you didn't know what it meant? No,

0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:09.600
<v Speaker 1>because it's but it's from big business. Of course I

0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:11.640
<v Speaker 1>know what it means. Oh okay, I thought I said

0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.320
<v Speaker 1>something like barn burner and you go, I don't know

0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:14.680
<v Speaker 1>what that is, but it's going to be big.

0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:25.120
<v Speaker 2>We have listened to all of your demands, requests, emails, dms.

0:12:25.400 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 1>We are paying the ransom. We are doing identity. Oh

0:12:30.679 --> 0:12:34.080
<v Speaker 1>my gosh, this has been from the beginning the most

0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:36.640
<v Speaker 1>requested episode. We've gotten so many dms that are like,

0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:38.840
<v Speaker 1>do the one with the twins? Do identity?

0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:39.120
<v Speaker 4>Like?

0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:43.480
<v Speaker 2>So here it is Guys, season six, episode twelve. And

0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if this is a specific you know,

0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:48.000
<v Speaker 2>I think this is too conspiracy theory, but it's about twins,

0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:50.559
<v Speaker 2>and twelve divided by two is six? Is this a coincidence?

0:12:50.640 --> 0:12:54.679
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, or is SVU communicating.

0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:56.280
<v Speaker 1>I read your note in the doc and was like,

0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it is, but I'm happy for Liza

0:12:58.440 --> 0:12:59.480
<v Speaker 1>to keep thinking that it is.

0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.959
<v Speaker 2>So the episode starts off zoomed in on a GPS

0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.640
<v Speaker 2>in like a silver Sporty convertible car, and it's two

0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:09.920
<v Speaker 2>guys that are trying to get laid and meet models

0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.400
<v Speaker 2>at an after party, and you could tell their dorks.

0:13:12.440 --> 0:13:16.920
<v Speaker 1>One guy's name Melvin, so he's not getting any but

0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:18.959
<v Speaker 1>they're like, is this the after porty? O don't know what?

0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Looks kind of Digiti And so while they're arguing, bam,

0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:24.239
<v Speaker 2>a body falls onto their windshield.

0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:28.360
<v Speaker 1>So we're starting with a big, strong open.

0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.079
<v Speaker 2>So the pants are around the ankles of this guy

0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:34.800
<v Speaker 2>and they know that he was thrown off the roof

0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.760
<v Speaker 2>because there's no windows on the building. So already the

0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.880
<v Speaker 2>detective work is out of control. Now I don't know,

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:44.000
<v Speaker 2>but the detective work is top notch, top notch.

0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:45.480
<v Speaker 1>That's a good one, okay.

0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:49.119
<v Speaker 2>And they're you know, Milinda, everyone's on the case, the detectives.

0:13:49.200 --> 0:13:52.400
<v Speaker 2>Melinda's there and they're debating like, well, could this be

0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.480
<v Speaker 2>a sex worker because two thousand dollars was left behind

0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:56.920
<v Speaker 2>and if it was a sex worker, and they would

0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.520
<v Speaker 2>hopefully take the money. So then Melinda is so funny

0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:02.679
<v Speaker 2>and she goes, well, it wasn't a fat enough stack

0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:06.160
<v Speaker 2>to cushion this fall. So that's, you know, some dead

0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.040
<v Speaker 2>body humor, which I appreciate.

0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:11.160
<v Speaker 1>I like an Emmy with a sense of humor. Did

0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:13.439
<v Speaker 1>you ever watch Dexter? Yeah, the whole thing.

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.560
<v Speaker 2>Their medical examiner was a real who. He was like

0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.600
<v Speaker 2>a pervert. I don't know if you remember him. I remember,

0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.040
<v Speaker 2>I forgot his name, but he was a creep and

0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:24.600
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if Melinda would go on a date with

0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.080
<v Speaker 2>him or not. Anyways, I mean, she's out of his league.

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:30.080
<v Speaker 2>But and then Melinda, I don't know how she knows this,

0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:33.720
<v Speaker 2>but the heart was still pumping when he was thrown

0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:37.600
<v Speaker 2>off this roof. So he died with the crash. He

0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.520
<v Speaker 2>has a Rolex diamond stud so they know he has money.

0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:44.480
<v Speaker 2>And one of the jewelry pieces has sc A on

0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:46.480
<v Speaker 2>it and they're like, oh what is that? We got

0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.880
<v Speaker 2>to do research, and I need to say the fashion

0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 2>right away is amazing Stabler is in a dark denim jacket.

0:14:52.360 --> 0:14:54.720
<v Speaker 2>His badge is on the outside front pocket of the coat.

0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm very attracted to this look. He has a baseball

0:14:57.200 --> 0:15:00.160
<v Speaker 2>cap on. Very cash Dad middle of the Night.

0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, these later seasons they do throw Stabler in a

0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:05.200
<v Speaker 1>denim jacket quite a bit. Yeah.

0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.960
<v Speaker 2>If this was like a little Toddler's and Tiara's competition,

0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:11.800
<v Speaker 2>this would be like a leisure where this would be

0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:15.480
<v Speaker 2>his look for that. And then Marishka has like the

0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:18.720
<v Speaker 2>Mom and Brady Bunch flip swoop bangs highlights.

0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:22.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yes, you're right, it's very Mom and Brady Bunch's

0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:23.200
<v Speaker 1>very Florence Henderson.

0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you for remembering her name. I was like,

0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:27.440
<v Speaker 2>I couldn't a gun to my head. I don't know

0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:31.680
<v Speaker 2>her name. And then we do get the wildest evidence

0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 2>given to us by our emmy. She says there are

0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:39.920
<v Speaker 2>bite marks on the dick, so that's great information. And

0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.720
<v Speaker 2>then of course the credits follow a moment like that,

0:15:42.960 --> 0:15:47.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, bite on the dick, but bom so that's how.

0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:48.320
<v Speaker 1>They play with us.

0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.600
<v Speaker 2>So we find out the body is Luis Vega and

0:15:51.720 --> 0:15:54.960
<v Speaker 2>he's been to jail before for a cell burglary. No

0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.200
<v Speaker 2>like sexual crimes before, and he's been out of jail

0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:01.480
<v Speaker 2>for six months and iced tea of from his previous

0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.600
<v Speaker 2>work in other was it the gang unit or drug unit?

0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:07.440
<v Speaker 1>I thought he was in vice, but you get the

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:09.520
<v Speaker 1>feeling he's maybe done gang stuff too. Yeah.

0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so he knows that SCA is a gang called

0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Stone Cold Assassins. And I do need to preface this

0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.440
<v Speaker 2>next time. This is the longest red herring and I

0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:19.600
<v Speaker 2>think SBU history.

0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:21.720
<v Speaker 1>There is a huge long run around.

0:16:21.800 --> 0:16:23.920
<v Speaker 2>We cannot get into the details of all of this

0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.600
<v Speaker 2>gang stuff because we have so much twin action ahead

0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:28.320
<v Speaker 2>of us, So I'm gonna try to.

0:16:28.320 --> 0:16:29.200
<v Speaker 1>Scoot us along.

0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:33.760
<v Speaker 2>But this is like the Simpson style red hairing if

0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:39.080
<v Speaker 2>I've ever seen one. So Munch remembers Claudia, who is

0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:43.080
<v Speaker 2>a woman who accused the dead body of assault before

0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:46.760
<v Speaker 2>the death of this guy and then dropped the charges.

0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.080
<v Speaker 2>So they're gonna go visit Claudia. She's working at a

0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:49.760
<v Speaker 2>fruit store.

0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:50.720
<v Speaker 1>She is rude.

0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.040
<v Speaker 2>She's like, what the fuck, go away, I'm not I'm busy.

0:16:53.080 --> 0:16:54.280
<v Speaker 2>I have fruits to put away.

0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:55.960
<v Speaker 1>And then she.

0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.320
<v Speaker 2>Said she actually never made it into the gang because

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.600
<v Speaker 2>she didn't pass the initiation. Not really thrilled with this initiation.

0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:04.439
<v Speaker 2>But basically, women that want to join the gang, you

0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.159
<v Speaker 2>toss the dice and then whatever you roll is how

0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:09.080
<v Speaker 2>many people you have to have sex with. And she

0:17:09.240 --> 0:17:12.119
<v Speaker 2>rolled eleven, but she only made it through three and

0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:14.920
<v Speaker 2>Lewis was number four, and so she left and then

0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:18.359
<v Speaker 2>he attacked her in the stairwell and they're like, so

0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.000
<v Speaker 2>you got revenge, You got revenge, and she's like, fuck you.

0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.280
<v Speaker 2>You think I'm the only girl this guy raped. Get

0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.320
<v Speaker 2>in line. Okay, there's tons of people, which I thought

0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:28.679
<v Speaker 2>was kind of a great point, like this guy's a scumbag,

0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.800
<v Speaker 2>so lots of people wanted him dead. And so then

0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:36.200
<v Speaker 2>they move on to a pizza place with pinballs. Where

0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:39.439
<v Speaker 2>are we I don't understand, but these two girls that

0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:43.440
<v Speaker 2>look like they ransacked a Claire's Accessories store are playing pinball.

0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.920
<v Speaker 2>There's bandanas, beanies, earrings, rings, necklaces. I mean, so much

0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.720
<v Speaker 2>gold on these girls. And one of them has acrylic

0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:56.040
<v Speaker 2>nails with SCA printed on them, and I relate to

0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.200
<v Speaker 2>this look. When the White Sox went to the World Series,

0:17:58.280 --> 0:18:00.280
<v Speaker 2>I did get acrylic nails that said White so with

0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:04.959
<v Speaker 2>diamonds and the pinkies. So I get it. So they

0:18:04.960 --> 0:18:07.920
<v Speaker 2>have a conversation with them. They're like, YadA YadA, gang,

0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.359
<v Speaker 2>the pizza slices are ready, we're busy, and they give

0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:12.840
<v Speaker 2>us the scoop that Luis used to fuck.

0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:13.040
<v Speaker 1>With a.

0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:17.800
<v Speaker 2>Mute, deaf, homeless woman. Is that politically correct?

0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:18.919
<v Speaker 1>How do I explain it to her?

0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.000
<v Speaker 2>She can't hear, she can't talk, and she's living on

0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.120
<v Speaker 2>the streets, so that's the scoop on her. And they

0:18:24.119 --> 0:18:26.119
<v Speaker 2>said that she was hot, so she's not ugly, and

0:18:26.160 --> 0:18:28.200
<v Speaker 2>she sleeps on the roof. That's the scoop we get

0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:31.720
<v Speaker 2>from the Claire's girls. So now we're at Saint Anne's

0:18:32.440 --> 0:18:34.680
<v Speaker 2>with Sister Peg the none with all the heart.

0:18:34.840 --> 0:18:36.000
<v Speaker 1>She knows sign language.

0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:37.879
<v Speaker 2>So she throws on a purse that, you know, like

0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:40.520
<v Speaker 2>a woman in a remote village made and then you

0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.360
<v Speaker 2>buy it at a street fair and the people are

0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:46.399
<v Speaker 2>like it's fair trade and she's like, I'm supporting this purse.

0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:48.280
<v Speaker 2>So it's that kind of a purse, you know. It's weaved,

0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:49.920
<v Speaker 2>it's very weaved.

0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:52.719
<v Speaker 1>And woven woven.

0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:59.359
<v Speaker 2>They find the hot woman. She is digging in the

0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.439
<v Speaker 2>trash with an other woman named Betty, and she's like,

0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:05.479
<v Speaker 2>go away. I was sleeping at Grand Central last night,

0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:07.600
<v Speaker 2>and they're like, what, we didn't even say that last night.

0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:10.199
<v Speaker 2>Why are you talking about last night? And so she goes, no,

0:19:10.359 --> 0:19:13.080
<v Speaker 2>I went back to the roof afterwards. I saw his

0:19:13.200 --> 0:19:15.639
<v Speaker 2>dead body on the car. And she goes, I had

0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:17.959
<v Speaker 2>nothing to do with it, and they tell her, like,

0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.000
<v Speaker 2>the gang is after you, whether you like it or not,

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:22.360
<v Speaker 2>so you need to work with us or like you're

0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.400
<v Speaker 2>going to be dead. So she starts running away and

0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:27.960
<v Speaker 2>sister PEG's like, leave her alone. I'll go talk to her.

0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.879
<v Speaker 2>You don't even know sign language, and she doesn't trust you.

0:19:31.200 --> 0:19:33.280
<v Speaker 2>So the scoop they get from Betty is Louise pays

0:19:33.320 --> 0:19:36.439
<v Speaker 2>fifty dollars a bag for the garbage that they put together,

0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:40.960
<v Speaker 2>and the garbage is filled with bills, papers, addresses, things

0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.480
<v Speaker 2>that you would use to fake identities and scam people

0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:48.120
<v Speaker 2>and steal people's identities. So with that information, we then

0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:53.199
<v Speaker 2>see the FBI and our cops break into this underground office,

0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:57.960
<v Speaker 2>a sweatshop of identity theft work is happening, and Munch says,

0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:01.160
<v Speaker 2>and people call me crazy for shredding my junk mail,

0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.639
<v Speaker 2>and it's like no one is talking to you, Munch okay,

0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:06.520
<v Speaker 2>like you are so annoying.

0:20:06.640 --> 0:20:08.480
<v Speaker 1>But I do rip up my junk mail. I do

0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:10.280
<v Speaker 1>rip it up. Do you rip it up? Or do

0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:12.080
<v Speaker 1>you have a shredder? I don't have a shudder, but

0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:13.800
<v Speaker 1>I rip it up into enough pieces that nobody can

0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:15.080
<v Speaker 1>open a credit card in my name.

0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:19.959
<v Speaker 2>I'm shocked you don't have a shredder, and maybe you will, sue. Oh, Hanukkah, baby,

0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:23.720
<v Speaker 2>your birthday is before Hanukkah. Come on, yeah, you're right,

0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.600
<v Speaker 2>You're right. What if when you have your baby, I

0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:27.440
<v Speaker 2>give you a shredder?

0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay? I I already.

0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:34.560
<v Speaker 2>Have your new baby's gift planned and I cannot wait

0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.400
<v Speaker 2>to get it. Okay, but in my culture, we don't

0:20:37.400 --> 0:20:39.600
<v Speaker 2>buy things before the baby is born. And I always

0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:42.320
<v Speaker 2>am scared people think I'm cheap at baby showers and

0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:42.679
<v Speaker 2>I'm not.

0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.600
<v Speaker 1>I'm just no, I'm totally superstick. No, I don't think

0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:46.320
<v Speaker 1>you do. Okay.

0:20:47.880 --> 0:20:51.800
<v Speaker 2>So now, unfortunately, Sister Peg runs into the precinct.

0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:53.400
<v Speaker 1>She's crying Katie's dead.

0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Someone slit her throat, cut her face from ear to ear.

0:20:56.840 --> 0:20:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Clearly it's a.

0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:02.120
<v Speaker 2>Message, and Sister pegs up. But she did see the guy,

0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.800
<v Speaker 2>which is good. Now we're at Theme's office and the

0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:11.440
<v Speaker 2>bitemarks on the dick do not match Katie. But another

0:21:11.920 --> 0:21:15.760
<v Speaker 2>twist in this whole story is there's a Y chromosome

0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:19.159
<v Speaker 2>in the genetic tests of the DNA saliva listen a

0:21:19.160 --> 0:21:21.560
<v Speaker 2>lot of science, so it's a man. So now we

0:21:21.640 --> 0:21:24.320
<v Speaker 2>know the person that bit on the dick is a man.

0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.840
<v Speaker 2>Now Sister Peg is able to finger the guy that

0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:32.199
<v Speaker 2>killed Katie. It's Hector Ramirez and he has the weapon

0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:34.800
<v Speaker 2>on him like an idiot. He has a dragon tattoo

0:21:34.800 --> 0:21:38.520
<v Speaker 2>that Sister Peg saw. He's done. He says something about

0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:42.119
<v Speaker 2>how Katie begged for her life, and Sister Peg says

0:21:42.160 --> 0:21:44.560
<v Speaker 2>but she doesn't speak, and so they are like, what

0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:47.880
<v Speaker 2>did she sign? What did she sign? And Hector Ramirez

0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:52.320
<v Speaker 2>shows that before Kate he killed Katie, she signed graffiti,

0:21:52.880 --> 0:21:56.119
<v Speaker 2>so she kept saying graffiti, graffiti, graffiti. So they go

0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.960
<v Speaker 2>back to the rooftop to check out all the graffiti there,

0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:03.480
<v Speaker 2>going off of kate clue of graffiti. So they see

0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:07.080
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of graffiti and there's a signature SYK and

0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.720
<v Speaker 2>also B to two B which stands for born to

0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.240
<v Speaker 2>be bad, which can only lead us to the Upper

0:22:13.280 --> 0:22:13.840
<v Speaker 2>East Side.

0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Such a dorky fucking name for your crew.

0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:21.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, it's very, very silly. So it's not

0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:24.880
<v Speaker 2>a gang, it's a writing crew. They're in a rich

0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:29.600
<v Speaker 2>kid's school and it's just graffiti rich kids just And

0:22:29.920 --> 0:22:33.040
<v Speaker 2>what Stabler says, which I like to learn this, that

0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:37.840
<v Speaker 2>graffiti is about street cred. So the three rules of

0:22:37.880 --> 0:22:40.640
<v Speaker 2>it or how you get like street cred is style, volume,

0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:43.920
<v Speaker 2>and degree of risk. So obviously this rooftop spring would

0:22:43.960 --> 0:22:46.200
<v Speaker 2>have been a very risky place.

0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:48.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think this is all very interesting because you know,

0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:50.560
<v Speaker 1>I love across the street from a high school, and

0:22:50.600 --> 0:22:52.440
<v Speaker 1>there's just one blank wall in the side of this

0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:55.560
<v Speaker 1>high school that is constantly getting tagged, and it's never good.

0:22:55.920 --> 0:22:57.920
<v Speaker 1>No one's ever taking the time to like make a

0:22:58.000 --> 0:23:00.440
<v Speaker 1>nice mural or do like a tribute to someone who died.

0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:02.639
<v Speaker 1>It's literally just like a bunch of scribble bat and

0:23:02.640 --> 0:23:04.840
<v Speaker 1>then they just they just paint over it. Two days later,

0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, what are you guys doing, Like, what's the point? Well,

0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:10.159
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. If they're painting over it the school,

0:23:10.160 --> 0:23:12.640
<v Speaker 1>probably the school's painting over is what I'm saying. Yeah,

0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.800
<v Speaker 1>So I'm just saying, like it's just not good it's

0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:17.760
<v Speaker 1>like it's I don't know, I get, but I get

0:23:17.760 --> 0:23:19.680
<v Speaker 1>how like it's probably really hot to do like an

0:23:19.680 --> 0:23:22.239
<v Speaker 1>overpass where you have to like hang upside down and

0:23:22.280 --> 0:23:25.359
<v Speaker 1>like do it and stuff. That shit's probably big points.

0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:27.040
<v Speaker 2>Big points, and I always I don't know if I've

0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:29.240
<v Speaker 2>brought this up on the show before, but there's an

0:23:29.280 --> 0:23:32.840
<v Speaker 2>episode of Project Runway from many seasons ago I've never

0:23:32.920 --> 0:23:36.880
<v Speaker 2>watched with Carly Klass but this was a Heidi year

0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:39.720
<v Speaker 2>but they called they had a graffiti challenge, but they

0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:45.280
<v Speaker 2>called it aerosol art, and that always humiliated me. So

0:23:45.440 --> 0:23:48.399
<v Speaker 2>finally the red herring is done, we are where we

0:23:48.480 --> 0:23:51.240
<v Speaker 2>need to be, and we meet Logan.

0:23:51.040 --> 0:23:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Stanton rich little boy in a little suit.

0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:56.560
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, we go from full on gang warfare and

0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:59.600
<v Speaker 2>gang rapes to prep school kid in a tie. And

0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:03.399
<v Speaker 2>I love that. I love that shocking twist. Logan is saying,

0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:06.080
<v Speaker 2>it's not me. I'm not scared, I'm pissed. I was

0:24:06.119 --> 0:24:08.400
<v Speaker 2>home in my bed, back off motherfuckers.

0:24:08.480 --> 0:24:10.760
<v Speaker 1>And they well, they find they find Logan right because

0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:13.359
<v Speaker 1>Psycho is his tag, like they have like a record.

0:24:13.400 --> 0:24:15.479
<v Speaker 1>They go talk to like the Graffiti Unit guy and

0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:18.679
<v Speaker 1>he's like, yeah, s y Ko is psycho. That's this

0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:20.879
<v Speaker 1>kid Logan Stanton, and that's how they find him.

0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, yeah, So thank you for the detail. I

0:24:23.840 --> 0:24:26.439
<v Speaker 2>obviously well, I was trying to show off how quickly

0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:28.480
<v Speaker 2>I can get through the red herring, and I think

0:24:28.560 --> 0:24:31.240
<v Speaker 2>it what, I don't know why that was my goal.

0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:34.880
<v Speaker 1>I'm confused. I thought you weren't going to get into

0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:36.119
<v Speaker 1>it at all. You're like, I'm not really going to

0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:37.920
<v Speaker 1>get into it, and then you did a full explanation.

0:24:40.640 --> 0:24:43.119
<v Speaker 2>I never know what to leave out of this fucking show.

0:24:43.240 --> 0:24:46.440
<v Speaker 2>I love it all, leave it all on the floor.

0:24:47.160 --> 0:24:50.000
<v Speaker 2>So Rebecca Hendrix is.

0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:53.040
<v Speaker 1>Here, what do do you say it? I can't even okay,

0:24:53.080 --> 0:24:55.679
<v Speaker 1>So then enter Rebecca Hendrix, who we've met in a

0:24:55.680 --> 0:24:59.920
<v Speaker 1>previous episode and has some sexual tension with Elliott.

0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:05.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Mary Stuart Masterson baby, And so background on her

0:25:05.880 --> 0:25:09.080
<v Speaker 2>if you don't know, is she is a therapist, but

0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:10.920
<v Speaker 2>she used to be a cop, so she knows all

0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:13.520
<v Speaker 2>the tricks and games and still has a detective spirit

0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:17.000
<v Speaker 2>but has to follow you know, the hippocodes, and so

0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:20.240
<v Speaker 2>you know she's always towing the line of ethics.

0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:26.879
<v Speaker 1>But remember that you say that she's always what is

0:25:26.920 --> 0:25:30.000
<v Speaker 1>the say she's always like pushing the boundaries of ethics.

0:25:30.320 --> 0:25:34.359
<v Speaker 2>She's always pushing the boundaries of ethics. So she and

0:25:34.520 --> 0:25:38.120
<v Speaker 2>Kragan are behind the mirror while Logan's being interrogated, being like, hey,

0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:41.159
<v Speaker 2>he's underage, where are the parents? And Kragan's like, shut up,

0:25:41.160 --> 0:25:45.520
<v Speaker 2>you dumb bitch. So they're having fun. They're having fun.

0:25:45.640 --> 0:25:49.040
<v Speaker 1>Imagine if Craigan said that sometimes, shut up, you dumb bitch,

0:25:50.960 --> 0:25:51.679
<v Speaker 1>I would love it.

0:25:54.440 --> 0:25:57.880
<v Speaker 2>So Craigan leaves to go chat with Logan's parents who arrive,

0:25:57.960 --> 0:25:59.600
<v Speaker 2>and that's mister and Missus Stanton.

0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:02.439
<v Speaker 1>And mister Stanton is an SVU alum.

0:26:02.560 --> 0:26:06.680
<v Speaker 2>He has been in a previous episode Privilege, and he's

0:26:06.880 --> 0:26:10.360
<v Speaker 2>also an sex in the City alum. He's the guy

0:26:10.359 --> 0:26:13.479
<v Speaker 2>who had sex with Samantha who kept talking in baby

0:26:13.520 --> 0:26:14.919
<v Speaker 2>talk and she just said.

0:26:14.680 --> 0:26:17.560
<v Speaker 1>Can you stop these are my breast? Stop calling him.

0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:20.600
<v Speaker 2>Titty witties and he got really offended and left.

0:26:20.680 --> 0:26:23.240
<v Speaker 1>So I wait, can I also say that the mom

0:26:23.640 --> 0:26:25.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm looking it up right now, really quick. My computer

0:26:25.840 --> 0:26:29.000
<v Speaker 1>is the slowest thing ever. But the mom is also

0:26:29.240 --> 0:26:34.359
<v Speaker 1>a long time Hillary Bailey Smith. She was I believe

0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:37.159
<v Speaker 1>Nora Buchanan is her name on One Life to Live forever,

0:26:37.400 --> 0:26:39.960
<v Speaker 1>huge part on the soap opera and a big part

0:26:39.960 --> 0:26:42.600
<v Speaker 1>of my childhood. I bet that's a neil bergat Yeah,

0:26:42.640 --> 0:26:44.800
<v Speaker 1>he's probably like and of course we all know her

0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:47.320
<v Speaker 1>from one life to live as more if Buchanan.

0:26:49.000 --> 0:26:52.520
<v Speaker 2>One hundred percent, and you know they're rich parents, they're like,

0:26:52.600 --> 0:26:55.479
<v Speaker 2>this is a mistake. What's going on? And then the

0:26:55.480 --> 0:27:01.359
<v Speaker 2>greatest thing ever happens. We meet Lindsay who is Logan Logan, Lindsay,

0:27:01.440 --> 0:27:05.080
<v Speaker 2>Lindsay Logan. This is a parent trap situation. We have

0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:08.159
<v Speaker 2>one person playing both parts, which is.

0:27:08.200 --> 0:27:10.199
<v Speaker 1>Amazing gender bendy.

0:27:10.760 --> 0:27:14.640
<v Speaker 2>So the actor is Riley mcclindon, and this is the

0:27:14.680 --> 0:27:16.880
<v Speaker 2>performance of the decade.

0:27:17.080 --> 0:27:19.959
<v Speaker 1>Honest said, he doesn't act anymore. It's really terrible. He

0:27:20.000 --> 0:27:20.679
<v Speaker 1>was so good in this.

0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:24.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know, he found the Lord and he's working

0:27:24.320 --> 0:27:27.920
<v Speaker 2>in the church, so he left theater behind the theater arts.

0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:30.879
<v Speaker 2>He's no longer a thespian. I mean, maybe he's putting

0:27:30.920 --> 0:27:33.760
<v Speaker 2>up some Jesus plays around Christmas. We don't know, but

0:27:35.080 --> 0:27:39.120
<v Speaker 2>I wish. I mean, it's just like amazing. It's amazing wigwork,

0:27:39.200 --> 0:27:43.439
<v Speaker 2>it's amazing acting and I just love seeing him shine

0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:47.560
<v Speaker 2>like this. So she's full on, like, excuse me, my

0:27:47.640 --> 0:27:49.840
<v Speaker 2>brother was home. I saw him and Craigan's like in

0:27:49.880 --> 0:27:52.159
<v Speaker 2>the middle of the night and she says, yeah, he

0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:54.840
<v Speaker 2>falls asleep with the TV blaring all the time and

0:27:54.880 --> 0:27:57.160
<v Speaker 2>it woke me up. And it was two thirty four

0:27:57.200 --> 0:27:59.960
<v Speaker 2>am because I remember thinking two three four right in order.

0:28:00.680 --> 0:28:02.640
<v Speaker 2>And she's like, I went to turn off the TV

0:28:02.760 --> 0:28:05.200
<v Speaker 2>and he called me a butt face. What so yeah,

0:28:05.240 --> 0:28:06.960
<v Speaker 2>So she has the story down, so they're like, we

0:28:07.000 --> 0:28:08.160
<v Speaker 2>can take him home whatever.

0:28:08.640 --> 0:28:14.359
<v Speaker 1>Cut to saliva matches perfectly. Dunt dunt dum Okay, so

0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:16.879
<v Speaker 1>the saliva is a match for this sliva found on

0:28:17.000 --> 0:28:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Lewis Slash Louise's dick. Yes.

0:28:19.760 --> 0:28:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Then by going by a couple names, the bite marks

0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:27.359
<v Speaker 2>match as someone named Liza. I should know to be respectful,

0:28:27.520 --> 0:28:31.560
<v Speaker 2>you know what I mean? But I don't think people.

0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:33.480
<v Speaker 1>Do pronounce yeah. People pronounce much like your name. People

0:28:33.520 --> 0:28:35.160
<v Speaker 1>pronounce it with yeah.

0:28:35.160 --> 0:28:39.200
<v Speaker 2>But I correct people and I have an attitude, so well.

0:28:40.200 --> 0:28:42.080
<v Speaker 1>Rip Luise. He's not going to be alive to correct

0:28:42.080 --> 0:28:42.720
<v Speaker 1>people anymore.

0:28:42.800 --> 0:28:46.200
<v Speaker 2>So and then Rebecca, I love this. She's so desperate

0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:48.160
<v Speaker 2>to be a cop again. She's like, can I come

0:28:48.200 --> 0:28:48.520
<v Speaker 2>with you?

0:28:48.600 --> 0:28:48.920
<v Speaker 1>Please?

0:28:49.160 --> 0:28:51.880
<v Speaker 2>Like to best stabler just like hold like holding onto

0:28:51.880 --> 0:28:54.240
<v Speaker 2>her collar, like begging them to go on the scene,

0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:57.400
<v Speaker 2>and she's giving them some scoop on the psych stuff

0:28:57.400 --> 0:28:59.720
<v Speaker 2>and like, hey, he might be scared to come out

0:29:00.080 --> 0:29:01.520
<v Speaker 2>if it's like a gay situation.

0:29:01.800 --> 0:29:03.760
<v Speaker 1>Also like attacking your abuser.

0:29:03.360 --> 0:29:06.120
<v Speaker 2>Comes with more consequences all of this, and they're like, yeah,

0:29:06.160 --> 0:29:09.920
<v Speaker 2>we're SVU detectives. Rebecca back off, but they allow her

0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:12.880
<v Speaker 2>to come. So they're in a multimillion dollar home ready

0:29:12.920 --> 0:29:16.640
<v Speaker 2>to ruin a family's evening and the mom is like,

0:29:16.680 --> 0:29:21.800
<v Speaker 2>this is a nightmare. I don't understand. And the parents

0:29:21.840 --> 0:29:24.520
<v Speaker 2>bring Logan down and go, why are you lying? Because

0:29:24.520 --> 0:29:26.640
<v Speaker 2>they know that the DNA matches and they're smart enough

0:29:26.640 --> 0:29:28.520
<v Speaker 2>to know DNA doesn't lie. And he's like, I'm not

0:29:28.680 --> 0:29:33.240
<v Speaker 2>fucking lying. So then he goes, why is no one

0:29:33.320 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 2>listening to me? And Rebecca says, I'll listen to you.

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:38.800
<v Speaker 2>And this is my favorite. Lindsay goes, who the hell

0:29:38.840 --> 0:29:43.240
<v Speaker 2>are you? I love her vibe and ash Rebecca says

0:29:43.280 --> 0:29:48.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm a psychiatrist, and this makes Logan go insane. He screams.

0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:51.720
<v Speaker 2>He says, I told you no more shrinks. He throws

0:29:51.760 --> 0:29:54.320
<v Speaker 2>a vase that's perfectly placed right in the middle of

0:29:54.320 --> 0:29:58.760
<v Speaker 2>the table, just right for him to grab. He smashes

0:29:58.800 --> 0:30:02.680
<v Speaker 2>it onto the ground, so Stabler grabs him. He's fighting

0:30:02.720 --> 0:30:06.520
<v Speaker 2>and Lindsey bangs him with a metal candlestickholder, like this

0:30:06.560 --> 0:30:09.120
<v Speaker 2>is the movie clue, so we know that the fight

0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:12.480
<v Speaker 2>has escalated, and we cut to the child's psych room,

0:30:12.640 --> 0:30:15.760
<v Speaker 2>you know where they interrogate children. Benson and Lindsay are

0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:19.040
<v Speaker 2>sitting there and Lindsay fractured Stabler's rib.

0:30:19.360 --> 0:30:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Lol. Love that.

0:30:21.720 --> 0:30:25.560
<v Speaker 2>And then Benson fashion moment wearing a long sleeved shirt

0:30:25.560 --> 0:30:27.120
<v Speaker 2>with a T shirt on top of it, which is

0:30:27.160 --> 0:30:27.560
<v Speaker 2>a trend.

0:30:27.560 --> 0:30:30.320
<v Speaker 1>I rode very, very hard in my youth.

0:30:30.560 --> 0:30:36.280
<v Speaker 2>I loved layering, loved layering ash shirts like that, and

0:30:36.320 --> 0:30:38.200
<v Speaker 2>it's great and I just fucking love this moment.

0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:39.920
<v Speaker 1>She's having very two thousands.

0:30:40.760 --> 0:30:43.160
<v Speaker 2>Lindsay says it wasn't her brother and it was her

0:30:43.280 --> 0:30:45.920
<v Speaker 2>and she was alone, and Benson's like, it's impossible. The

0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:49.720
<v Speaker 2>DNA is male. You're like, you have something is going on,

0:30:50.360 --> 0:30:54.960
<v Speaker 2>and Lindsay says, no, listen, it's you know, my brother

0:30:55.040 --> 0:30:58.240
<v Speaker 2>has a group for tagging and graffiti, but they won't

0:30:58.280 --> 0:31:01.000
<v Speaker 2>let girls in. So I thought, if I can tag

0:31:01.080 --> 0:31:04.160
<v Speaker 2>somewhere wild. They would have to let me in, and

0:31:04.240 --> 0:31:06.760
<v Speaker 2>Benson says, but it's his signature, and she goes, no,

0:31:06.920 --> 0:31:10.640
<v Speaker 2>he's psych Oh I'm psyche. I just didn't have time

0:31:10.680 --> 0:31:14.360
<v Speaker 2>to finish. I got to the K and she reveals

0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:16.880
<v Speaker 2>what happened on the roof and she says she felt

0:31:16.920 --> 0:31:19.280
<v Speaker 2>a tug on her leg, was pulled down and this

0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:21.520
<v Speaker 2>man was going to punch her in the face and

0:31:21.560 --> 0:31:23.560
<v Speaker 2>then noticed she was a girl and said, I have

0:31:23.600 --> 0:31:26.479
<v Speaker 2>something better for you. He un zipped his pants and

0:31:26.520 --> 0:31:28.720
<v Speaker 2>then she just bit down as hard as she could

0:31:29.160 --> 0:31:31.560
<v Speaker 2>and he stumbled back and fell off the edge. She

0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:35.160
<v Speaker 2>is crying and she's saying it happened to her, and

0:31:35.480 --> 0:31:38.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, Rebecca Hendrix in a lab coat is giving

0:31:38.520 --> 0:31:42.200
<v Speaker 2>a twin rundown where she says, you know, twins sometimes

0:31:42.640 --> 0:31:45.840
<v Speaker 2>are so connected they imagine that things are happening to them.

0:31:45.960 --> 0:31:47.720
<v Speaker 1>She could have felt all of this in her.

0:31:47.560 --> 0:31:50.400
<v Speaker 2>Bed because like you know, they have the DNA, so

0:31:50.560 --> 0:31:53.440
<v Speaker 2>they think she's lying and she still could be dune

0:31:53.480 --> 0:31:57.480
<v Speaker 2>dun duhn. Okay, But Logan is saying in a different

0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:00.960
<v Speaker 2>interrogation room, it wasn't me, It wasn't me, And they

0:32:01.000 --> 0:32:03.000
<v Speaker 2>want to talk to each other. They really want to

0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:05.320
<v Speaker 2>talk to each other. So they're debating if they should

0:32:05.360 --> 0:32:07.920
<v Speaker 2>let the twins talk to each other. Our new best friend,

0:32:07.920 --> 0:32:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Diane Neil arrives and she's on the scene wanting some scoop,

0:32:12.560 --> 0:32:15.440
<v Speaker 2>and you know it's Casey Novac. She goes, hello, all intruder,

0:32:15.440 --> 0:32:20.160
<v Speaker 2>an investigation whenever I can, Hendrix and Novak go and

0:32:20.200 --> 0:32:23.920
<v Speaker 2>talk in private, and she breaks some doctor rules. So

0:32:23.960 --> 0:32:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Rebecca's putting her neck on the line for this case

0:32:26.240 --> 0:32:28.080
<v Speaker 2>because of her cop background.

0:32:28.800 --> 0:32:29.720
<v Speaker 1>She cares too much.

0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:32.560
<v Speaker 2>And she's telling Novak that she looked at birth records

0:32:32.560 --> 0:32:35.280
<v Speaker 2>from the hospital when the twins were born and that

0:32:35.400 --> 0:32:38.200
<v Speaker 2>Casey should subpoena the records, but she can't give her

0:32:38.200 --> 0:32:41.320
<v Speaker 2>the scoop because that would break her doctor laws. But

0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:45.360
<v Speaker 2>Casey can't just like subpoena random shit, you know. So

0:32:45.680 --> 0:32:48.600
<v Speaker 2>what Rebecca Hendrix decides to do is, I'll tell you

0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:51.800
<v Speaker 2>what's not in there. She goes a ton of stuff

0:32:51.880 --> 0:32:56.280
<v Speaker 2>is redacted. And the therapist that they are seeing is

0:32:56.320 --> 0:32:59.600
<v Speaker 2>a sex therapist. Why are child twins going to a

0:32:59.680 --> 0:33:00.760
<v Speaker 2>sex therapist?

0:33:01.000 --> 0:33:03.400
<v Speaker 1>Right? They're fourteen? Like, why are they going to a

0:33:03.400 --> 0:33:04.360
<v Speaker 1>sex therapist? Yeah?

0:33:04.440 --> 0:33:06.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And This really reminds me of one of my

0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:09.200
<v Speaker 2>favorite movies of all time. But I'm a cheerleader. I

0:33:09.240 --> 0:33:11.160
<v Speaker 2>don't know if this is in your wheelhouse, Kara.

0:33:11.280 --> 0:33:14.080
<v Speaker 1>I've never seen that. We have to do a sleepover.

0:33:15.360 --> 0:33:20.320
<v Speaker 2>It's RuPaul is in it as a boy. Okay, star

0:33:20.440 --> 0:33:24.840
<v Speaker 2>studied Natasha Leone, who's an svu alum clea duval svu

0:33:24.880 --> 0:33:30.080
<v Speaker 2>alum And I'm sure more like it's an amazing fucking movie.

0:33:30.160 --> 0:33:32.800
<v Speaker 1>But done and done. Yeah, it's just like.

0:33:32.720 --> 0:33:36.800
<v Speaker 2>A gender sex therapy, gay fun thing. It did some

0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:39.120
<v Speaker 2>things to me when I would rent it from Blockbuster

0:33:39.200 --> 0:33:42.520
<v Speaker 2>a week after week after week. It was a really

0:33:42.520 --> 0:33:44.840
<v Speaker 2>important movie for me. But anyways, why are these teens

0:33:44.840 --> 0:33:46.160
<v Speaker 2>with the sex therapist?

0:33:46.360 --> 0:33:47.920
<v Speaker 1>So they do allow the twins.

0:33:47.640 --> 0:33:49.960
<v Speaker 2>To talk to each other, and immediately they go into

0:33:49.960 --> 0:33:54.200
<v Speaker 2>a secret twin language, and Stabler says that his twins

0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:56.520
<v Speaker 2>had it, and Benson is like a regular old Karen

0:33:56.560 --> 0:34:01.280
<v Speaker 2>and she's like English only, English only, And they don't

0:34:01.320 --> 0:34:03.360
<v Speaker 2>like that the twins are having their own fun time.

0:34:03.920 --> 0:34:05.160
<v Speaker 1>And Hendrix is.

0:34:05.080 --> 0:34:07.960
<v Speaker 2>A super quick liar because the sixth therapist barges in

0:34:08.000 --> 0:34:10.440
<v Speaker 2>and is like, I told you to stay off this.

0:34:10.440 --> 0:34:13.560
<v Speaker 2>This is my case and she's like, oh no, no, no,

0:34:13.640 --> 0:34:15.880
<v Speaker 2>the detective just wanted to see them. I'm just observing.

0:34:15.960 --> 0:34:16.720
<v Speaker 1>I'm just chilling.

0:34:17.120 --> 0:34:19.480
<v Speaker 2>And Casey's like, Hella, what are you seeing them for?

0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:21.680
<v Speaker 2>And of course he can't tell her a duh law.

0:34:21.719 --> 0:34:25.600
<v Speaker 2>It's therapy. I love that I could tell my therapist's secrets.

0:34:25.640 --> 0:34:28.120
<v Speaker 2>It's honestly one of my favorite things. I'm always like, well,

0:34:28.160 --> 0:34:30.080
<v Speaker 2>I can't tell you this, but I can because you're

0:34:30.080 --> 0:34:34.680
<v Speaker 2>my therapist, and I love it. I love secret therapy rules.

0:34:35.080 --> 0:34:37.880
<v Speaker 2>But it's a full on messine there, Like one of

0:34:37.920 --> 0:34:40.160
<v Speaker 2>the twins is on a table, Benson's holding that like,

0:34:40.239 --> 0:34:42.680
<v Speaker 2>it's just pandemonium. It really is kind of like a

0:34:42.800 --> 0:34:48.080
<v Speaker 2>Benny Hill movie, honestly. And so the therapist is like, Okay,

0:34:48.160 --> 0:34:49.600
<v Speaker 2>they don't know what to do with children.

0:34:50.360 --> 0:34:53.560
<v Speaker 1>This is enough. So now we're at.

0:34:53.400 --> 0:34:58.040
<v Speaker 2>My favorite kind of SVU trope. It's an expedition treasure

0:34:58.120 --> 0:35:01.440
<v Speaker 2>hunt of witnesses and workers and characters, and I just

0:35:01.520 --> 0:35:02.600
<v Speaker 2>I love this so much.

0:35:02.760 --> 0:35:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this is a parade of nannies.

0:35:05.000 --> 0:35:09.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. So first we get a housekeeper and she gives

0:35:09.320 --> 0:35:11.400
<v Speaker 2>us the scoop that when they come home from therapy,

0:35:11.440 --> 0:35:14.240
<v Speaker 2>they lock themselves in separate rooms and don't speak for days,

0:35:14.960 --> 0:35:17.000
<v Speaker 2>and she says, listen. They have a lot of nannies

0:35:17.040 --> 0:35:19.560
<v Speaker 2>talk to them. So then one of the nanny says,

0:35:19.600 --> 0:35:24.240
<v Speaker 2>they're violent little urchins. They have knocked down dragdowns. Which

0:35:24.520 --> 0:35:25.600
<v Speaker 2>is that my new drag name?

0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Okay, knock down drag out? Oh did I spell it? Okay?

0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:33.320
<v Speaker 1>The fights are instigated by Lindsay.

0:35:34.480 --> 0:35:39.040
<v Speaker 2>Mom always is bullying Lindsay, picking out her clothes, hair makeup.

0:35:39.600 --> 0:35:43.600
<v Speaker 2>She has a lot of chronic urinary infections as a child,

0:35:43.719 --> 0:35:47.239
<v Speaker 2>She's always running around naked, ripping her dresses off, and

0:35:47.320 --> 0:35:49.600
<v Speaker 2>she had a lot of scarring in her little area.

0:35:50.120 --> 0:35:52.640
<v Speaker 2>That is not the way, that's not my language. That's

0:35:52.640 --> 0:35:58.120
<v Speaker 2>a nanny. So they obviously tell the parents, like, why

0:35:58.120 --> 0:36:01.439
<v Speaker 2>does your child have scarring on her little area? And

0:36:01.520 --> 0:36:05.200
<v Speaker 2>he goes she's had urinary reflux problems and needed surgery,

0:36:05.880 --> 0:36:08.560
<v Speaker 2>and they say, why are you giving her weight Look? Oh,

0:36:08.600 --> 0:36:10.640
<v Speaker 2>they're like, why are you giving her birth control pills?

0:36:10.640 --> 0:36:13.080
<v Speaker 2>They're like, it's weight loss pills. They're like, why are

0:36:13.120 --> 0:36:15.839
<v Speaker 2>they going to a sex therapist? It's just it's a mess.

0:36:15.880 --> 0:36:18.160
<v Speaker 2>And then in the background, if you have an eye

0:36:18.200 --> 0:36:20.640
<v Speaker 2>for art, like I do, they do have a cool

0:36:21.400 --> 0:36:24.760
<v Speaker 2>like soft served ice cream painting in the background, which,

0:36:24.920 --> 0:36:26.759
<v Speaker 2>if you'd like to go pause and look at it.

0:36:27.200 --> 0:36:27.799
<v Speaker 1>I liked it.

0:36:29.080 --> 0:36:32.480
<v Speaker 2>So the parents are getting pissed that they're being like

0:36:32.520 --> 0:36:36.160
<v Speaker 2>interrogated like this. The detectives get no information. These parents

0:36:36.160 --> 0:36:38.960
<v Speaker 2>have an answer for everything that they're being accused of,

0:36:39.320 --> 0:36:42.360
<v Speaker 2>and so the housekeeper runs out and is like, listen,

0:36:42.480 --> 0:36:46.160
<v Speaker 2>you're wrong about the kids. The mom caught Lindsey making

0:36:46.160 --> 0:36:48.359
<v Speaker 2>out with a girl, and the mom is mad because

0:36:48.400 --> 0:36:49.800
<v Speaker 2>there's like a lesbian situation.

0:36:50.080 --> 0:36:51.959
<v Speaker 1>So when the when the housekeeper says you're wrong about

0:36:52.000 --> 0:36:54.359
<v Speaker 1>the kids, it's because it's because the cops are kind

0:36:54.360 --> 0:36:57.640
<v Speaker 1>of implying that these kids are having a sexual relationship

0:36:57.719 --> 0:36:58.200
<v Speaker 1>with each other.

0:36:58.680 --> 0:37:00.680
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's a really big thing that I missed. Wow,

0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:03.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad you're here, Kara. Okay, No, there's a lot.

0:37:03.800 --> 0:37:06.239
<v Speaker 1>There's so much in this episode. So it's basically just

0:37:06.320 --> 0:37:08.080
<v Speaker 1>kind of like, wait, so what's going on? Why are

0:37:08.080 --> 0:37:10.040
<v Speaker 1>they seeing sex? If they're having sex with each other,

0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:12.080
<v Speaker 1>you have to tell us, you know. And everyone's like

0:37:12.480 --> 0:37:15.600
<v Speaker 1>that's crazy. And then the housekeeper kind of comes out

0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:17.960
<v Speaker 1>to be like, actually she's a lesbian.

0:37:18.160 --> 0:37:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we get a lot of doctor Rebecca Hendrix,

0:37:20.880 --> 0:37:25.080
<v Speaker 2>which is exciting for us, and she says, listen, Lindsay

0:37:25.160 --> 0:37:29.080
<v Speaker 2>was born July fourteenth, nineteen ninety, but Lindsay's birth certificate

0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:34.040
<v Speaker 2>was reissued six months later, so this is a big clue, Like,

0:37:34.160 --> 0:37:36.319
<v Speaker 2>what's going on here and we need to get to

0:37:36.320 --> 0:37:37.000
<v Speaker 2>the bottom of it.

0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, doctor Hendrix breaks the rules and pulls the mom's

0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:42.440
<v Speaker 1>file from the hospital of where she gave birth.

0:37:42.760 --> 0:37:45.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and she sees that there was baby boy A

0:37:45.719 --> 0:37:50.680
<v Speaker 2>and baby boy B. So two boy twins were born.

0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:54.560
<v Speaker 2>They were identical twins. Lindsay was born male and the

0:37:54.600 --> 0:37:57.880
<v Speaker 2>mom gave birth to two healthy boys. So they're like,

0:37:58.000 --> 0:38:01.719
<v Speaker 2>what the fuck did these parents do? So now we

0:38:02.040 --> 0:38:04.440
<v Speaker 2>finally the parents have no more lies and they have

0:38:04.480 --> 0:38:07.160
<v Speaker 2>to come clean. And what happened was the circumcision got

0:38:07.160 --> 0:38:11.720
<v Speaker 2>fucked up. The device malfunction and burned him severely, and

0:38:11.840 --> 0:38:14.280
<v Speaker 2>all the experts said that he would never be normal,

0:38:14.760 --> 0:38:17.480
<v Speaker 2>not be a fully functional boy, and he couldn't get

0:38:17.480 --> 0:38:20.880
<v Speaker 2>a prosthesis till junior high. And the parents were scared

0:38:20.880 --> 0:38:22.760
<v Speaker 2>of the abuse he would take in the locker rooms

0:38:22.760 --> 0:38:25.480
<v Speaker 2>and they just wanted him to be normal, and they

0:38:25.480 --> 0:38:28.040
<v Speaker 2>were like, what about the humiliation of telling the girl

0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:28.640
<v Speaker 2>he fell in.

0:38:28.600 --> 0:38:30.040
<v Speaker 1>Love with, and YadA YadA.

0:38:30.120 --> 0:38:33.000
<v Speaker 2>But and then Benson says, but you thought putting your

0:38:33.080 --> 0:38:35.680
<v Speaker 2>kid through a full on sex change operation as a

0:38:35.680 --> 0:38:38.800
<v Speaker 2>baby was better for your child, And this just brings

0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:41.880
<v Speaker 2>up I don't know, like, it's crazy how many choices

0:38:42.040 --> 0:38:45.240
<v Speaker 2>parents make to protect them from other kids being shitty

0:38:45.320 --> 0:38:48.240
<v Speaker 2>instead of people raising their kids to be less shitty.

0:38:48.520 --> 0:38:49.880
<v Speaker 1>You know, or open minded.

0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:51.960
<v Speaker 2>It is weird that you would do all that to

0:38:52.040 --> 0:38:53.960
<v Speaker 2>be like, well, I don't want them getting made fun of,

0:38:54.200 --> 0:38:56.719
<v Speaker 2>and it's like that sucks. I don't know, it's just

0:38:56.800 --> 0:38:59.440
<v Speaker 2>it's weird that that's such a big thing because your

0:38:59.520 --> 0:39:01.160
<v Speaker 2>kid will get me fun of for everything.

0:39:01.400 --> 0:39:03.520
<v Speaker 1>Well, yes, but I mean, but then they do get

0:39:03.520 --> 0:39:06.560
<v Speaker 1>into the fact that they were persuaded by this therapist

0:39:06.640 --> 0:39:07.320
<v Speaker 1>doctor Blair.

0:39:07.719 --> 0:39:10.120
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and says one of the most chilling things of

0:39:10.280 --> 0:39:13.280
<v Speaker 2>all of SVU. He says, it's easier digging a hole

0:39:13.360 --> 0:39:16.080
<v Speaker 2>than building a pole, which you know, I guess I

0:39:16.080 --> 0:39:21.680
<v Speaker 2>don't know. I've never done either, but it seems intense.

0:39:21.920 --> 0:39:26.480
<v Speaker 2>And the sex therapist doctor what bias Bail Blair Blair,

0:39:26.960 --> 0:39:31.040
<v Speaker 2>we have a friend named Blair. Not bragging, but she

0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:35.480
<v Speaker 2>so she had to go through urinary surgery, remove testes,

0:39:35.560 --> 0:39:38.560
<v Speaker 2>and a panectomy. And then Benson says, so you slap

0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:41.080
<v Speaker 2>a bow on her and call her a girl. And

0:39:41.120 --> 0:39:44.280
<v Speaker 2>then they go, no, you know, at puberty, we give hormones,

0:39:44.320 --> 0:39:46.520
<v Speaker 2>so she gets hips and girl features and they have

0:39:46.560 --> 0:39:48.279
<v Speaker 2>to treat her like a girl and she will be

0:39:48.320 --> 0:39:51.000
<v Speaker 2>a girl. And they're like, it didn't work, you fucking idiot.

0:39:51.160 --> 0:39:55.040
<v Speaker 2>She is miserable. And then the sex therapist, doctor Blair, says,

0:39:55.080 --> 0:39:59.160
<v Speaker 2>what fourteen year old girl isn't I hate this guy.

0:40:00.120 --> 0:40:01.879
<v Speaker 1>You're supposed to hate him. If you're on the side

0:40:01.880 --> 0:40:02.239
<v Speaker 1>of this.

0:40:02.239 --> 0:40:07.040
<v Speaker 2>Guy, you're supposed to hate him. So Stabler way woke

0:40:07.120 --> 0:40:09.760
<v Speaker 2>than I've ever seen. Stabler says, you can't change someone's

0:40:09.800 --> 0:40:12.920
<v Speaker 2>sexual identity. Where did this guy come from? This is

0:40:12.960 --> 0:40:15.360
<v Speaker 2>like the woke Charlotte meme from Sex and the City. Like,

0:40:15.400 --> 0:40:18.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm very shocked by Stabler saying this. But the therapist

0:40:18.600 --> 0:40:21.760
<v Speaker 2>believes children are born sexually neutral and a blank slate,

0:40:21.880 --> 0:40:25.719
<v Speaker 2>and gender identity is determined by nurture, not nature. So

0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:29.000
<v Speaker 2>this was kind of like this therapists sweat dream he loves,

0:40:29.520 --> 0:40:32.560
<v Speaker 2>like he was selfish about this. He wasn't about like

0:40:32.640 --> 0:40:35.280
<v Speaker 2>the kids' lives and how good they were. Like to him,

0:40:35.520 --> 0:40:39.960
<v Speaker 2>this was the greatest experiment that came into his lap.

0:40:40.560 --> 0:40:44.640
<v Speaker 2>But this brings suspicions to the therapist because he says, wait,

0:40:45.360 --> 0:40:47.479
<v Speaker 2>only a few people know about this. How the hell

0:40:47.520 --> 0:40:51.279
<v Speaker 2>did you find out secrets? Please don't tell him. So

0:40:51.800 --> 0:40:54.239
<v Speaker 2>the therapist is like, don't tell her, and Stabler says,

0:40:54.239 --> 0:40:55.560
<v Speaker 2>if you don't think this is going to come out

0:40:55.640 --> 0:40:58.040
<v Speaker 2>a criminal investigation, you're a fucking idiot. He goes, well,

0:40:58.040 --> 0:41:00.400
<v Speaker 2>at least let me be there. So cut to the

0:41:00.480 --> 0:41:04.760
<v Speaker 2>child interrogation room. Novak doctor Blair are there and they

0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:08.040
<v Speaker 2>are with Lindsay and they're just gathering her statement and

0:41:08.080 --> 0:41:11.240
<v Speaker 2>she's about to sign the statement. But she's not an idiot,

0:41:11.360 --> 0:41:14.239
<v Speaker 2>so she says, wait, but you said it could only

0:41:14.280 --> 0:41:17.759
<v Speaker 2>be Logan, Like, what's going on? Like something doesn't add up?

0:41:17.760 --> 0:41:19.480
<v Speaker 2>What did you mean that my brother had.

0:41:19.320 --> 0:41:21.799
<v Speaker 1>To do it? She goes, stop it, tell me what's

0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:23.640
<v Speaker 1>going on. I feel like I'm going crazy.

0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:26.520
<v Speaker 2>And Rebecca barges in and is like, I need to

0:41:26.560 --> 0:41:29.640
<v Speaker 2>talk to you, doctor Blair, and doctor Blair says, shut

0:41:29.680 --> 0:41:35.080
<v Speaker 2>your mouth, and Lindsay goes in the verge of tears says,

0:41:35.080 --> 0:41:37.880
<v Speaker 2>you know something, Please tell me, tell me. The acting

0:41:37.960 --> 0:41:42.239
<v Speaker 2>is incredible, and she tells the sex doc you have

0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:44.279
<v Speaker 2>to tell her, like you know, and he says, I'm

0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:47.160
<v Speaker 2>going to report you to the review board of medicine.

0:41:47.640 --> 0:41:51.319
<v Speaker 2>It's a very intense moment. So Rebecca says, you were

0:41:51.360 --> 0:41:54.360
<v Speaker 2>born a boy. Lindsay doesn't understand, and she explains there

0:41:54.440 --> 0:41:59.520
<v Speaker 2>was an accident when you were born, and Lindsay knew it.

0:41:59.640 --> 0:42:01.560
<v Speaker 2>She's like, I knew what I knew, knew it. I

0:42:01.600 --> 0:42:04.040
<v Speaker 2>never once felt right. I always felt like a freak.

0:42:04.280 --> 0:42:06.680
<v Speaker 2>Why did anybody tell me? Why didn't anyone tell me?

0:42:06.800 --> 0:42:09.480
<v Speaker 2>And I'm on her side. And her name was Lucas.

0:42:10.560 --> 0:42:13.359
<v Speaker 2>The sex therapist who's selfish as hell the whole time,

0:42:13.400 --> 0:42:16.279
<v Speaker 2>is like, your normal girl, whatever, stop being mad, just

0:42:16.360 --> 0:42:21.160
<v Speaker 2>be you, just be Frankenstein for me, and he tells

0:42:21.200 --> 0:42:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Rebecca Hendrix you're finished and storms off. The end of

0:42:25.360 --> 0:42:28.919
<v Speaker 2>the episode, doctor Hendrix is packing up her office. She's

0:42:28.920 --> 0:42:31.480
<v Speaker 2>no longer welcome to work at the hospital, but it'll

0:42:31.480 --> 0:42:34.160
<v Speaker 2>give her time to get ready for the hearing. Benson

0:42:34.200 --> 0:42:37.120
<v Speaker 2>and Stabler are obviously like, sorry, girl, but you did

0:42:37.120 --> 0:42:40.160
<v Speaker 2>the right thing, and Hendrix goes for a cop, so

0:42:41.200 --> 0:42:46.080
<v Speaker 2>I have nothing to comment. Okay, Lindsay now has stopped

0:42:46.080 --> 0:42:50.040
<v Speaker 2>taking meds. Now is a boy will be known as

0:42:50.160 --> 0:42:55.120
<v Speaker 2>Lucas and doctor Hendrix genders him properly. So ahead of

0:42:55.160 --> 0:42:58.360
<v Speaker 2>her time, Logan is in Cragan's office and wants to

0:42:58.400 --> 0:43:03.040
<v Speaker 2>file charges against doctor Blair, the sex therapist, and reveals

0:43:03.080 --> 0:43:06.759
<v Speaker 2>that the sex therapist was molesting the twins and it's

0:43:06.800 --> 0:43:09.680
<v Speaker 2>been going on for years, showing them photos of adults

0:43:09.680 --> 0:43:13.880
<v Speaker 2>having sex and put the twins into sexual positions and

0:43:14.440 --> 0:43:16.640
<v Speaker 2>made the twins pretend that they were having sex to

0:43:16.680 --> 0:43:21.720
<v Speaker 2>each other. So the sex doctors like, hey, it was treatment,

0:43:21.960 --> 0:43:24.359
<v Speaker 2>she needs to learn her sexual roles, but why did

0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:28.319
<v Speaker 2>the other twin have to be there? And also it

0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:32.719
<v Speaker 2>takes away his theory of nature versus nurture, you know

0:43:32.760 --> 0:43:35.040
<v Speaker 2>what I mean, Like if you have to train her

0:43:35.080 --> 0:43:37.799
<v Speaker 2>to do this, then it's not all nurture, so you're wrong, Like,

0:43:37.840 --> 0:43:40.799
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how you're letting this happen. And then

0:43:40.880 --> 0:43:43.279
<v Speaker 2>his whole thing is like, but there's no penetration, and

0:43:43.280 --> 0:43:46.000
<v Speaker 2>it's like I still think making children dry hump is rape.

0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:49.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I don't know penetration fully matters in

0:43:49.680 --> 0:43:52.800
<v Speaker 2>assaults like this, and then there's like a nice comedy

0:43:52.840 --> 0:43:57.520
<v Speaker 2>moment which I like where doctor Blair says it wasn't porn,

0:43:57.840 --> 0:44:01.520
<v Speaker 2>it was art books and Stabler says there was a

0:44:01.520 --> 0:44:05.680
<v Speaker 2>lot of dix. Okay, it made me uncomfortable, and doctor

0:44:05.719 --> 0:44:09.400
<v Speaker 2>Blair says, that's because you're a bourgeois American completely uptight

0:44:09.440 --> 0:44:12.000
<v Speaker 2>about sex, which screws up your children and turns them

0:44:12.000 --> 0:44:16.440
<v Speaker 2>into sex offenders. And Stabler like amazing comedy note moment.

0:44:16.960 --> 0:44:19.840
<v Speaker 2>He looks dumb as hell and just goes, you lost

0:44:19.880 --> 0:44:23.240
<v Speaker 2>me at bourgeois and I just love when Maloney.

0:44:22.920 --> 0:44:25.439
<v Speaker 1>Gets to, you know, work his chops out.

0:44:26.080 --> 0:44:27.920
<v Speaker 2>And then we have a moment that comes out of

0:44:27.920 --> 0:44:30.520
<v Speaker 2>nowhere where sister Peg is at the precinct and picks

0:44:30.600 --> 0:44:32.200
<v Speaker 2>up I think this is just like maybe a learning

0:44:32.239 --> 0:44:35.080
<v Speaker 2>moment for the audience, but picks up a check from

0:44:35.080 --> 0:44:37.480
<v Speaker 2>the crime Victim's Board for six thousand dollars to give

0:44:37.520 --> 0:44:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Katie a proper burial. And through doing this podcast, I

0:44:42.000 --> 0:44:45.080
<v Speaker 2>learned about organizations like this that, like the government, does

0:44:45.120 --> 0:44:48.720
<v Speaker 2>help victims of violent crimes in many different ways.

0:44:49.480 --> 0:44:51.120
<v Speaker 1>So doctor Blair was left in.

0:44:51.160 --> 0:44:55.320
<v Speaker 2>Jail for three days because Casey's friend who's a file clerk,

0:44:55.719 --> 0:44:59.759
<v Speaker 2>accidentally in quotes, misplaced the paperwork and so he got

0:44:59.800 --> 0:45:01.399
<v Speaker 2>like stuck in jail, which they love.

0:45:01.719 --> 0:45:05.160
<v Speaker 1>That's like funny, haha, when it's like a white disgusting

0:45:05.560 --> 0:45:08.120
<v Speaker 1>sex therapist. But not as funny when like people are

0:45:08.239 --> 0:45:11.280
<v Speaker 1>kept in jail for like three years for doing absolutely

0:45:11.360 --> 0:45:13.200
<v Speaker 1>nothing because of random bureaucracy.

0:45:13.680 --> 0:45:17.360
<v Speaker 2>Yes, but doctor Blair should have stayed in jail because

0:45:17.400 --> 0:45:23.160
<v Speaker 2>now he's murdered. Someone bashed his brains in and left

0:45:23.160 --> 0:45:25.600
<v Speaker 2>the murder weapon and then the killer spit on him,

0:45:25.640 --> 0:45:30.480
<v Speaker 2>so there will be DNA, thank you. Obviously it's the twins. Okay,

0:45:30.520 --> 0:45:33.520
<v Speaker 2>if you're you know, Rebecca Hendrix isn't doing this. But

0:45:34.719 --> 0:45:38.239
<v Speaker 2>the twins. They're very smart, very smart twins. They went

0:45:38.280 --> 0:45:40.560
<v Speaker 2>to the movies together for a double feature. One of

0:45:40.600 --> 0:45:43.040
<v Speaker 2>them did leave, but they were mirraring matching parkas, so

0:45:43.120 --> 0:45:47.279
<v Speaker 2>no one knows which one left. And the thing is,

0:45:47.320 --> 0:45:51.280
<v Speaker 2>they can't prove it because it's identical twins, identical twin DNA.

0:45:51.920 --> 0:45:56.480
<v Speaker 2>Luke stopped taking the estrogen so it's out of his system,

0:45:56.760 --> 0:45:59.279
<v Speaker 2>and they can't do separate trials because if they charge

0:45:59.320 --> 0:46:01.720
<v Speaker 2>both of them take the way beyond a reasonable doubt

0:46:02.000 --> 0:46:04.279
<v Speaker 2>and it gives grounds for a dismissal of each of

0:46:04.320 --> 0:46:07.120
<v Speaker 2>their court cases. And neither of them are going to

0:46:07.160 --> 0:46:09.680
<v Speaker 2>flip on each other. They have secret languages and everything.

0:46:09.760 --> 0:46:12.759
<v Speaker 2>They love each other and the end is probably one

0:46:12.800 --> 0:46:14.799
<v Speaker 2>of the in a good way. Haunting. One of the

0:46:14.840 --> 0:46:19.720
<v Speaker 2>fun is Taunted episodes. But they're like in separate interrogation rooms,

0:46:20.080 --> 0:46:22.680
<v Speaker 2>but they're like touching the walls. How do you like

0:46:22.719 --> 0:46:26.400
<v Speaker 2>touching the walls in their hands on opposite walls, a

0:46:26.440 --> 0:46:27.280
<v Speaker 2>lot of wall touching.

0:46:27.400 --> 0:46:29.399
<v Speaker 1>There's just a wall between them, but they have their

0:46:29.440 --> 0:46:32.239
<v Speaker 1>ears up and it's like mirror imaging, and like, you know,

0:46:32.320 --> 0:46:34.520
<v Speaker 1>the cops are like they came up with the perfect crime.

0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:37.239
<v Speaker 1>Like these kids are smart, Like they literally know they

0:46:37.320 --> 0:46:39.840
<v Speaker 1>must know about double jeopardy. They know about identical DNA,

0:46:39.840 --> 0:46:41.440
<v Speaker 1>and they know how long it takes estrogen to work

0:46:41.440 --> 0:46:44.279
<v Speaker 1>its way out of DNA. Like they're really smart. Who

0:46:44.280 --> 0:46:47.399
<v Speaker 1>do you think killed the therapist? Which one?

0:46:47.600 --> 0:46:49.840
<v Speaker 2>That's such a good question, Kara, I'm so stupid. I

0:46:49.840 --> 0:46:53.320
<v Speaker 2>didn't even think about it. I feel like it's Lucas,

0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:58.000
<v Speaker 2>Like Lucas had more Yeah, yeah, you're right, Lucas had

0:46:58.320 --> 0:47:01.920
<v Speaker 2>his life fucking demolished because of this dude.

0:47:02.080 --> 0:47:05.600
<v Speaker 1>But then also it could be but it completely also

0:47:05.640 --> 0:47:09.239
<v Speaker 1>traumatized Logan, so they both had they both had, you know, well,

0:47:09.280 --> 0:47:11.359
<v Speaker 1>because Logan could have been like I will do this

0:47:11.400 --> 0:47:11.680
<v Speaker 1>for you.

0:47:11.760 --> 0:47:14.560
<v Speaker 2>I love you, so mu yah, and like I will

0:47:14.600 --> 0:47:17.400
<v Speaker 2>fucking take the bullet for you and murder this motherfucker.

0:47:17.719 --> 0:47:19.680
<v Speaker 2>But I agree with you that I do think it's

0:47:19.800 --> 0:47:22.160
<v Speaker 2>Lucas because of the full trauma.

0:47:22.239 --> 0:47:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Maybe we'll put a little we'll put a little Instagram poll.

0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:27.600
<v Speaker 1>That's exactly what we're going to do, and we'll see

0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:28.600
<v Speaker 1>what the listeners think.

0:47:28.760 --> 0:47:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the more gelled up hair is Lucas. And once

0:47:32.040 --> 0:47:33.200
<v Speaker 2>you get on the Instagram.

0:47:35.160 --> 0:47:37.640
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's take a quick break and then I'll

0:47:37.640 --> 0:47:39.880
<v Speaker 1>be back to tell you all about the fucked up

0:47:39.880 --> 0:47:47.400
<v Speaker 1>stuff that happened in real life.

0:47:57.320 --> 0:47:57.759
<v Speaker 4>All right.

0:47:58.280 --> 0:48:02.320
<v Speaker 1>So this episode is based on the story of David Rymer,

0:48:02.800 --> 0:48:06.239
<v Speaker 1>who was born Bruce Peter Reimer in nineteen sixty five

0:48:06.640 --> 0:48:09.399
<v Speaker 1>as the elder of two identical twin boys. His brother

0:48:09.480 --> 0:48:13.160
<v Speaker 1>was named Brian. They were Canadian born in Winnipeg and

0:48:13.200 --> 0:48:16.480
<v Speaker 1>their parents wore Mennonites. So I don't know what the

0:48:16.480 --> 0:48:19.440
<v Speaker 1>Mennonite policy is on circumcision. But the twins were not

0:48:19.719 --> 0:48:23.319
<v Speaker 1>circumcised at birth, and it was later when they were

0:48:23.320 --> 0:48:25.640
<v Speaker 1>around six months old they were having some trouble with

0:48:25.719 --> 0:48:29.359
<v Speaker 1>your nation and they were diagnosed with famosis. Now I've

0:48:29.600 --> 0:48:33.280
<v Speaker 1>read about famosis before because I believe it's Louis the sixteenth,

0:48:33.320 --> 0:48:36.080
<v Speaker 1>whichever Louis was married to Marie Antoinette is rumored to

0:48:36.080 --> 0:48:40.880
<v Speaker 1>have had famosis, which is basically when your foreskin won't retract.

0:48:41.320 --> 0:48:43.360
<v Speaker 1>So the best way I can describe it is like

0:48:43.640 --> 0:48:46.920
<v Speaker 1>you're putting your head through a tight turtleneck and like

0:48:46.960 --> 0:48:49.560
<v Speaker 1>you just can't get that turtleneck over your head, you

0:48:49.560 --> 0:48:51.879
<v Speaker 1>know what I mean, Like your foreskin just like won't

0:48:51.920 --> 0:48:53.480
<v Speaker 1>come down over the head of your penis.

0:48:53.880 --> 0:48:56.319
<v Speaker 2>I think we'll use that video and post that on

0:48:56.440 --> 0:48:59.920
<v Speaker 2>social media that acts out as an s.

0:49:01.960 --> 0:49:04.160
<v Speaker 1>I was acting out putting on a total neck for everybody.

0:49:05.080 --> 0:49:06.719
<v Speaker 1>It's like when the neck hole is too tight, and

0:49:09.160 --> 0:49:12.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm done with that visual. So they decided it's seven

0:49:12.120 --> 0:49:17.000
<v Speaker 1>months to circumcise these twins, and the regular doctor like

0:49:17.160 --> 0:49:19.960
<v Speaker 1>wasn't there, So it was like a different doctor who

0:49:20.040 --> 0:49:24.680
<v Speaker 1>decided to use Instead of like a traditional snip snip,

0:49:25.360 --> 0:49:30.160
<v Speaker 1>this doctor decided to use an uncommon method called electrocauterization,

0:49:30.880 --> 0:49:34.960
<v Speaker 1>which is like using destroying tissue with like a little

0:49:35.000 --> 0:49:39.359
<v Speaker 1>heat conducting probe that is heated by electric current, and

0:49:39.440 --> 0:49:44.920
<v Speaker 1>the machine malfunctioned. And some articles say that this procedure

0:49:45.000 --> 0:49:49.239
<v Speaker 1>completely burned off his penis. Some say like that it

0:49:49.280 --> 0:49:51.880
<v Speaker 1>was just burned beyond repair, but safe to say it

0:49:52.000 --> 0:49:55.120
<v Speaker 1>was a catastrophic malfunction.

0:49:54.640 --> 0:49:57.839
<v Speaker 2>Of this of this machinery. Why would you choose to

0:49:57.880 --> 0:49:59.560
<v Speaker 2>do an experiment on a baby dick?

0:49:59.680 --> 0:50:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Like understand, I don't know, I mean maybe yeah, And

0:50:05.000 --> 0:50:07.359
<v Speaker 1>I hope that they got some money or something out

0:50:07.400 --> 0:50:10.160
<v Speaker 1>of that at least. I mean, it's like so traumatizing.

0:50:10.520 --> 0:50:14.920
<v Speaker 1>They decided since since Bruce went first, they decided not

0:50:15.000 --> 0:50:18.719
<v Speaker 1>to do Brian. Brian went on to just his pomoses

0:50:18.760 --> 0:50:22.280
<v Speaker 1>cleared itself up on its own. So that's even harder

0:50:22.320 --> 0:50:24.280
<v Speaker 1>to hear that it would have just kind of worked

0:50:24.280 --> 0:50:27.200
<v Speaker 1>itself out. So now they have this little seven month

0:50:27.200 --> 0:50:30.680
<v Speaker 1>old baby with a severely injured penis, and they bring

0:50:30.760 --> 0:50:34.720
<v Speaker 1>him to Johns Hopkins in Baltimore in nineteen sixty seven,

0:50:34.840 --> 0:50:36.560
<v Speaker 1>so he's like one and a half years old at

0:50:36.560 --> 0:50:40.440
<v Speaker 1>this point, and that is where they meet John Money,

0:50:40.480 --> 0:50:43.680
<v Speaker 1>who is a New Zealand psychologist. This is absolutely who

0:50:43.680 --> 0:50:46.400
<v Speaker 1>doctor Blair is based off of. This man is an

0:50:46.600 --> 0:50:51.120
<v Speaker 1>extremely well known psychologist, sexologist, and author who is known

0:50:51.160 --> 0:50:54.680
<v Speaker 1>for his research into sexual identity and the biology of gender.

0:50:55.160 --> 0:50:56.879
<v Speaker 1>And what people say about him was that he thought

0:50:56.880 --> 0:50:59.360
<v Speaker 1>he was thought to be brilliant and arrogant, which is

0:50:59.400 --> 0:51:01.680
<v Speaker 1>like duh. He was like a Harvard graduate of course.

0:51:01.920 --> 0:51:04.200
<v Speaker 1>So Money is one of the first researchers to publish

0:51:04.280 --> 0:51:08.520
<v Speaker 1>theories on the influence of the societal constructs of gender.

0:51:09.200 --> 0:51:12.640
<v Speaker 1>He introduced the term's gender identity, used to describe a

0:51:12.680 --> 0:51:16.440
<v Speaker 1>person's innate sense of maleness or femaleness. He introduced the

0:51:16.520 --> 0:51:19.800
<v Speaker 1>term gender role and sexual orientation, and also popularized the

0:51:19.880 --> 0:51:24.759
<v Speaker 1>term paraphilia, which is basically any sexual interests that's not

0:51:24.960 --> 0:51:28.160
<v Speaker 1>just like heteronormative, like boobs are hot, penises are hot,

0:51:28.200 --> 0:51:33.080
<v Speaker 1>I like regular sex, like being into footstuff, being into bondage,

0:51:33.160 --> 0:51:37.320
<v Speaker 1>any of that falls under the paraphilia umbrella. Now what's

0:51:37.400 --> 0:51:40.680
<v Speaker 1>interesting is this guy we're going to find out is

0:51:40.840 --> 0:51:44.759
<v Speaker 1>very evil, but he also but he discovered so much.

0:51:44.840 --> 0:51:47.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, he discovered a lot. And he also he

0:51:47.680 --> 0:51:51.880
<v Speaker 1>also was when it came to transpatients. He was very like,

0:51:52.280 --> 0:51:54.480
<v Speaker 1>whatever they say is what they say. He was like,

0:51:54.760 --> 0:51:56.840
<v Speaker 1>if they feel that they are male, they are male,

0:51:56.920 --> 0:51:59.959
<v Speaker 1>and they should be afforded the medical procedures to allow

0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:03.120
<v Speaker 1>them to have whichever physical manifestation of that that they

0:52:03.120 --> 0:52:06.920
<v Speaker 1>would like. So he was like progressive in some ways,

0:52:06.920 --> 0:52:10.200
<v Speaker 1>but in other ways. He had this theory of gender neutrality,

0:52:10.239 --> 0:52:13.400
<v Speaker 1>which they talk about in the episode, that gender identity

0:52:13.400 --> 0:52:17.560
<v Speaker 1>develops primarily as a result of social learning from early childhood,

0:52:17.560 --> 0:52:20.160
<v Speaker 1>but that it could be changed at any point with

0:52:20.280 --> 0:52:22.960
<v Speaker 1>appropriate not at any point at an early point, with

0:52:23.080 --> 0:52:27.040
<v Speaker 1>appropriate behavioral intervention. So he was all in on this

0:52:27.200 --> 0:52:28.919
<v Speaker 1>nurture opposed to nature thing.

0:52:29.320 --> 0:52:31.839
<v Speaker 2>I just feel like I said this during the episode thing,

0:52:31.880 --> 0:52:34.680
<v Speaker 2>but it's like he's contradicting himself.

0:52:34.960 --> 0:52:36.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think in some ways.

0:52:36.239 --> 0:52:39.640
<v Speaker 2>He is, yeah constantly where it's like if someone says

0:52:39.640 --> 0:52:41.400
<v Speaker 2>they're this, they're this, and that's the way it is,

0:52:41.440 --> 0:52:43.840
<v Speaker 2>and you're born in the sexual identity, but also you

0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:46.600
<v Speaker 2>can change it fully by nurture, Like I just I

0:52:46.640 --> 0:52:48.800
<v Speaker 2>don't get it. And his last name is money. I

0:52:48.800 --> 0:52:50.160
<v Speaker 2>don't know how anyone trusted him.

0:52:50.160 --> 0:52:56.080
<v Speaker 1>Ever. Doctor Money does sound like a rapper, So doctor

0:52:56.120 --> 0:52:58.920
<v Speaker 1>Money believed that a penis could not be replaced, but

0:52:58.960 --> 0:53:02.080
<v Speaker 1>that a functional of vaginant could be constructed surgically. And

0:53:02.080 --> 0:53:04.040
<v Speaker 1>that's where we get this it's easier to dig a

0:53:04.040 --> 0:53:07.040
<v Speaker 1>hole than a pull phrase like that phrase is used

0:53:07.080 --> 0:53:12.480
<v Speaker 1>in a lot of intersex surgeries and studies about intersex surgeries,

0:53:13.200 --> 0:53:15.839
<v Speaker 1>like up through the seventies because of kind of this

0:53:15.880 --> 0:53:20.640
<v Speaker 1>guy's work. So he claimed that Rymer would be much

0:53:20.640 --> 0:53:24.600
<v Speaker 1>more likely to achieve a successful functional sexual maturation as

0:53:24.600 --> 0:53:27.120
<v Speaker 1>a girl than as a boy. And like, isn't it

0:53:27.160 --> 0:53:31.080
<v Speaker 1>convenient that this theory he has these two identical twin

0:53:31.120 --> 0:53:34.600
<v Speaker 1>boys where there's a perfect control being Brian, and there's

0:53:34.600 --> 0:53:38.160
<v Speaker 1>a perfect one to experiment on being Bruce, just fall

0:53:38.200 --> 0:53:40.759
<v Speaker 1>into his lap when they come to Johns Hopkins. So

0:53:41.120 --> 0:53:45.239
<v Speaker 1>these boys are like the key to proving his theories correct.

0:53:45.480 --> 0:53:49.319
<v Speaker 1>So Money really convinced Bruce's parents to turn him into

0:53:49.360 --> 0:53:54.440
<v Speaker 1>a female via sex reassignment surgery. So at the age

0:53:54.440 --> 0:53:58.000
<v Speaker 1>of twenty two months, which is like my daughter's basic

0:53:58.080 --> 0:54:02.640
<v Speaker 1>exact age right now, Bruce became Brenda. It started with

0:54:02.680 --> 0:54:06.960
<v Speaker 1>a bilateral orchidectomy in which his testes were removed surgically

0:54:07.040 --> 0:54:11.560
<v Speaker 1>and a rudimentary volva was fashioned, and then they just

0:54:11.640 --> 0:54:14.200
<v Speaker 1>gave this child these surgeries and then he just continued

0:54:14.200 --> 0:54:18.959
<v Speaker 1>to see Brenda annually for consultations. Okay, so I sort

0:54:18.960 --> 0:54:21.120
<v Speaker 1>of knew this was all the real part of the

0:54:21.680 --> 0:54:24.240
<v Speaker 1>from the episode. I had no idea this next part

0:54:24.280 --> 0:54:27.960
<v Speaker 1>was real. Much like in Identity, Money did force these

0:54:28.000 --> 0:54:33.480
<v Speaker 1>twins to rehearse sexual acts involving thrusting movements with Brenda

0:54:33.560 --> 0:54:37.080
<v Speaker 1>playing the bottom role, and like Rymer said that as

0:54:37.080 --> 0:54:38.960
<v Speaker 1>a child he had to get down on all fours

0:54:38.960 --> 0:54:41.080
<v Speaker 1>and his brother would get behind him with his crotch

0:54:41.120 --> 0:54:46.120
<v Speaker 1>up against him, and that Money forced him into like

0:54:46.160 --> 0:54:49.719
<v Speaker 1>sexual positions with his legs spread and Brian on top

0:54:49.719 --> 0:54:52.600
<v Speaker 1>of him. It's just really, really crazy. They were forced

0:54:52.600 --> 0:54:56.160
<v Speaker 1>to take their clothes off and engage in genital inspections,

0:54:57.040 --> 0:54:59.279
<v Speaker 1>and on at least one occasion they said he took

0:54:59.280 --> 0:55:02.440
<v Speaker 1>photographs up of these of these children doing these activities,

0:55:02.600 --> 0:55:05.680
<v Speaker 1>and his rationale was that the same as the doctor

0:55:05.680 --> 0:55:08.680
<v Speaker 1>in the in the episode, that this was childhood's sexual

0:55:08.719 --> 0:55:12.600
<v Speaker 1>rehearsal play and was important for the healthy adult gender identity.

0:55:12.960 --> 0:55:15.200
<v Speaker 1>What I don't understand is like, even if you're going

0:55:15.239 --> 0:55:19.440
<v Speaker 1>to give Brenda, try to do this sort of reprogramming

0:55:19.600 --> 0:55:26.480
<v Speaker 1>on this child. Can you not show sexual photos or whatever?

0:55:26.600 --> 0:55:28.799
<v Speaker 1>Like why does it have to be their brother is

0:55:28.840 --> 0:55:31.560
<v Speaker 1>involved in it, Like that's what's so that has to

0:55:31.600 --> 0:55:35.279
<v Speaker 1>be so confusing and traumatic for everyone involved, and I'm

0:55:35.280 --> 0:55:40.000
<v Speaker 1>sure it was for them. Bruce slash Brenda was given

0:55:40.280 --> 0:55:46.000
<v Speaker 1>estrogen during adolescence that started breast development. And Money would

0:55:46.040 --> 0:55:49.040
<v Speaker 1>like report on the progress of the twins, like releasing

0:55:49.160 --> 0:55:53.240
<v Speaker 1>reports and sort of publishing pieces calling it the John

0:55:53.280 --> 0:55:55.920
<v Speaker 1>slash Jone case. So a few google parts of this

0:55:56.080 --> 0:55:58.000
<v Speaker 1>is like the John Slash Jone case is how it's

0:55:58.040 --> 0:56:01.239
<v Speaker 1>referred to because they're identity was not known for a

0:56:01.280 --> 0:56:05.040
<v Speaker 1>really long time. And Money actually wrote stuff like the

0:56:05.120 --> 0:56:07.879
<v Speaker 1>child's behavior is so clearly that of an active little

0:56:07.920 --> 0:56:10.239
<v Speaker 1>girl and so different from the boyish ways of her

0:56:10.280 --> 0:56:13.839
<v Speaker 1>twin brother. But that's like what Money was writing because

0:56:13.880 --> 0:56:17.600
<v Speaker 1>it satisfied his narrative of his study. The notes from

0:56:17.680 --> 0:56:20.520
<v Speaker 1>some of his students, who were like his lab students,

0:56:20.520 --> 0:56:23.640
<v Speaker 1>said that the follow up visits were only once a year.

0:56:24.080 --> 0:56:27.160
<v Speaker 1>Rymer's parents routinely lied to the staff about the success

0:56:27.200 --> 0:56:30.160
<v Speaker 1>of the procedure, and then later his twin brother, Brian

0:56:30.320 --> 0:56:34.239
<v Speaker 1>developed schizophrenia. Why did the parents lie. I don't know.

0:56:34.600 --> 0:56:36.120
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it's like they just were like,

0:56:36.400 --> 0:56:38.239
<v Speaker 1>got to keep this up, got to keep this up,

0:56:38.320 --> 0:56:40.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, like we have to keep this is the

0:56:40.200 --> 0:56:42.239
<v Speaker 1>only way. We can't go back now. I think was

0:56:42.280 --> 0:56:43.800
<v Speaker 1>their thought a lot. And I get into that a

0:56:43.840 --> 0:56:46.799
<v Speaker 1>little bit later when they do appear on Oprah. So

0:56:47.800 --> 0:56:50.239
<v Speaker 1>Brenda and I don't I don't even want to use

0:56:50.239 --> 0:56:55.080
<v Speaker 1>a female pronoun here, because Brenda does eventually take back

0:56:55.120 --> 0:56:59.920
<v Speaker 1>her masculine identity and it goes by David. So Brenda

0:57:00.280 --> 0:57:03.839
<v Speaker 1>is it said, behaved in a strictly masculine fashion, would

0:57:03.960 --> 0:57:06.759
<v Speaker 1>rip off dresses that his mother would sew for him.

0:57:07.719 --> 0:57:10.000
<v Speaker 1>When he saw his father shaving, he wanted a raizor to.

0:57:10.280 --> 0:57:13.520
<v Speaker 1>He liked toy guns, trucks, and he didn't like sewing

0:57:13.560 --> 0:57:16.960
<v Speaker 1>machines and barbies. And when he fought with his brother,

0:57:17.080 --> 0:57:19.720
<v Speaker 1>it was clear that she was stronger, which is kind

0:57:19.720 --> 0:57:22.880
<v Speaker 1>of a little bit why I think Lucas was the killer.

0:57:23.440 --> 0:57:25.720
<v Speaker 1>He liked running and fighting and climbing, and he hated

0:57:25.760 --> 0:57:28.040
<v Speaker 1>playing with dolls, and he had no friends and was

0:57:28.160 --> 0:57:31.640
<v Speaker 1>very lonely because his twin was sort of embarrassed of him,

0:57:32.120 --> 0:57:34.000
<v Speaker 1>like as I guess a lot of people are embarrassed

0:57:34.000 --> 0:57:37.200
<v Speaker 1>with their sisters. But people called him cavewoman and stuff.

0:57:37.400 --> 0:57:41.680
<v Speaker 1>So it's really like this traumatic, traumatic childhood that he's having,

0:57:41.720 --> 0:57:43.960
<v Speaker 1>So that's hardly a success. I don't know why this

0:57:44.440 --> 0:57:48.120
<v Speaker 1>doctor is writing, oh wow, she's just having an amazing life,

0:57:48.160 --> 0:57:52.000
<v Speaker 1>because the kid is not. Reimer also hated going to

0:57:52.080 --> 0:57:55.520
<v Speaker 1>visit doctor Money and by thirteen was experiencing suicidal ideation

0:57:55.680 --> 0:57:57.800
<v Speaker 1>and told his parents that he would take his own

0:57:57.840 --> 0:58:01.480
<v Speaker 1>life if they made him see doctor Money. And at fourteen,

0:58:01.600 --> 0:58:03.840
<v Speaker 1>his parents broke down and told him about his past,

0:58:04.120 --> 0:58:06.680
<v Speaker 1>so same as the same age as in this episode

0:58:06.680 --> 0:58:10.920
<v Speaker 1>of SVU, and instead of being angry, David was relieved.

0:58:11.080 --> 0:58:13.720
<v Speaker 1>He said, for the first time, everything made sense and

0:58:13.760 --> 0:58:17.919
<v Speaker 1>I understood who and what I was. And that's that's

0:58:18.720 --> 0:58:22.000
<v Speaker 1>from an Archives of Pediatric and Adolescent Medicine report that

0:58:22.000 --> 0:58:24.880
<v Speaker 1>they did on them. He decided to assume a male

0:58:24.920 --> 0:58:28.600
<v Speaker 1>gender identity, calling himself David. He underwent treatment to reverse

0:58:28.640 --> 0:58:32.800
<v Speaker 1>the reassignment, including testosterone injections, double mistectomy, and a folloplast.

0:58:33.720 --> 0:58:37.080
<v Speaker 1>The grueling surgeries spun him into some periods of depression

0:58:37.280 --> 0:58:41.200
<v Speaker 1>and twice caused him to attempt suicide, and he spent

0:58:41.360 --> 0:58:43.120
<v Speaker 1>a lot of months living alone in a cabin in

0:58:43.120 --> 0:58:45.320
<v Speaker 1>the woods. And then I read that at twenty two

0:58:45.440 --> 0:58:47.680
<v Speaker 1>he prayed to God for the first time in his life,

0:58:47.760 --> 0:58:49.840
<v Speaker 1>begging for the chance to be a husband and a father.

0:58:50.720 --> 0:58:54.480
<v Speaker 1>And this is just an interesting physical thing about it.

0:58:54.480 --> 0:58:58.480
<v Speaker 1>It was reported that the phallic reconstruction was only partially successful,

0:58:58.920 --> 0:59:02.480
<v Speaker 1>but that David could have sexual intercourse and experience orgasm.

0:59:02.800 --> 0:59:07.000
<v Speaker 1>So that's I think that's pretty successful in terms of

0:59:07.120 --> 0:59:11.120
<v Speaker 1>the things that penises are for. So he eventually, so

0:59:11.160 --> 0:59:13.040
<v Speaker 1>he got a job. He was working in a slaughterhouse,

0:59:13.200 --> 0:59:15.680
<v Speaker 1>and he was sort of really happily adjusted to his

0:59:15.720 --> 0:59:18.160
<v Speaker 1>life as a man, so people are saying. And then

0:59:18.200 --> 0:59:20.880
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen ninety he married a woman named Joan Fontaine

0:59:20.920 --> 0:59:24.160
<v Speaker 1>and adopted her three children. So in the early nineties,

0:59:24.240 --> 0:59:26.680
<v Speaker 1>early to mid nineties, things are going pretty good for David.

0:59:26.720 --> 0:59:29.320
<v Speaker 1>You know, he's taking back control of his life. And

0:59:29.360 --> 0:59:33.680
<v Speaker 1>then his case comes to international attention when an academic

0:59:33.720 --> 0:59:38.280
<v Speaker 1>sexologist named Milton Diamond persuaded him to tell his story. Diamond,

0:59:38.480 --> 0:59:39.560
<v Speaker 1>who are these man?

0:59:39.640 --> 0:59:39.880
<v Speaker 4>I know?

0:59:40.080 --> 0:59:46.160
<v Speaker 1>Money, Diamond, It's like, And then Steve Annuity met him

0:59:46.680 --> 0:59:51.720
<v Speaker 1>and no, so then Milton Diamond what annuity means? That's money?

0:59:51.960 --> 0:59:55.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I don't even either, really, So, Milton

0:59:55.800 --> 0:59:59.800
<v Speaker 1>Diamond is an academic sexologist who persuaded Rhymer to allow

0:59:59.880 --> 1:00:03.200
<v Speaker 1>him to tell his story to dissuade other physicians from

1:00:03.240 --> 1:00:06.720
<v Speaker 1>doing this kind of treatment. Like this did not work.

1:00:06.800 --> 1:00:08.919
<v Speaker 1>This is a field experiment. Let's get the word out,

1:00:09.000 --> 1:00:11.560
<v Speaker 1>you know, because at this point it's the Jones slash

1:00:11.640 --> 1:00:14.600
<v Speaker 1>John case. It's completely anonymous. No one knows that this

1:00:14.680 --> 1:00:16.640
<v Speaker 1>is like a real story, or no one knows who

1:00:16.680 --> 1:00:20.000
<v Speaker 1>the real the story behind the real people. So he

1:00:20.680 --> 1:00:23.240
<v Speaker 1>went public with his story, and then an author named

1:00:23.320 --> 1:00:27.920
<v Speaker 1>John Cola Pinto published a widely disseminated and influential account

1:00:28.360 --> 1:00:31.480
<v Speaker 1>of his whole story in Rolling Stone magazine in December

1:00:31.480 --> 1:00:34.520
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen ninety seven. This article won awards, and I

1:00:34.560 --> 1:00:37.080
<v Speaker 1>cannot find it fucking anywhere. It's just not on the internet.

1:00:37.120 --> 1:00:39.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what. I don't know why it's not archived.

1:00:39.200 --> 1:00:42.200
<v Speaker 1>It's like Rolling Stone, what's going on anyway? He Later,

1:00:42.320 --> 1:00:45.320
<v Speaker 1>Cola Pinto wrote a whole book about David, a New

1:00:45.360 --> 1:00:48.320
<v Speaker 1>York Times best selling biography called As Nature Made Him

1:00:48.400 --> 1:00:50.200
<v Speaker 1>The Boy who was raised as a girl that came

1:00:50.200 --> 1:00:54.160
<v Speaker 1>out in two thousand, in which Cola Pinto described basically

1:00:54.320 --> 1:00:56.880
<v Speaker 1>how everything in Money's reports is wrong. How like when

1:00:56.880 --> 1:00:59.560
<v Speaker 1>he was living as Brenda Reimer did not identify as

1:00:59.560 --> 1:01:02.600
<v Speaker 1>a girl. He was ostracized and bullied by peers. He

1:01:03.080 --> 1:01:06.120
<v Speaker 1>no dresses or hormones ever made him feel like a girl.

1:01:07.000 --> 1:01:09.920
<v Speaker 1>And that was this big book that came out, and

1:01:10.000 --> 1:01:11.720
<v Speaker 1>he did get a lot of profits from the book.

1:01:11.800 --> 1:01:13.960
<v Speaker 1>David did make profits from the book. So I liked

1:01:13.960 --> 1:01:17.400
<v Speaker 1>hearing about that. So for thirty years after Money's initial report,

1:01:17.480 --> 1:01:23.480
<v Speaker 1>this became like the common thought in this field that

1:01:24.040 --> 1:01:27.160
<v Speaker 1>gender is malleable, and like that you can if you

1:01:27.200 --> 1:01:29.280
<v Speaker 1>get if you get it done within a certain window.

1:01:29.680 --> 1:01:31.840
<v Speaker 1>Like sometimes they tried to say afterwards that the reason

1:01:31.880 --> 1:01:34.360
<v Speaker 1>it didn't work was because they waited until twenty two months,

1:01:34.640 --> 1:01:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Like if they had done it within the first year,

1:01:36.400 --> 1:01:38.640
<v Speaker 1>or maybe within the first eighteen months or something like that,

1:01:38.680 --> 1:01:41.440
<v Speaker 1>it would have worked better. I mean, I disagree, but.

1:01:41.640 --> 1:01:45.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, how is four months gonna fully change everything?

1:01:46.000 --> 1:01:47.840
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean maybe not eighteen months, but like maybe

1:01:47.840 --> 1:01:49.560
<v Speaker 1>if you do it within a year before they even

1:01:49.600 --> 1:01:52.479
<v Speaker 1>start realizing a lot of things about boy versus girl,

1:01:52.600 --> 1:01:56.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, like, so yeah, his his view was that

1:01:56.160 --> 1:01:59.600
<v Speaker 1>sex reassignment was the correct decision, and it resulted in

1:01:59.680 --> 1:02:03.920
<v Speaker 1>thous of sexual reassignments for intersex people and probably people

1:02:03.920 --> 1:02:09.800
<v Speaker 1>that had accidents where their penises were damaged. And Money's

1:02:09.800 --> 1:02:13.080
<v Speaker 1>experiments actually proved the opposite, exactly what you said, Like,

1:02:13.160 --> 1:02:16.480
<v Speaker 1>it proved the persistence of one's inborn sense of gender,

1:02:17.600 --> 1:02:22.280
<v Speaker 1>which does back up like today's more prevalent thinking that

1:02:22.920 --> 1:02:26.959
<v Speaker 1>trans people have an innate, inborn sense of gender, whether

1:02:27.000 --> 1:02:29.760
<v Speaker 1>it matches what their genitalia is or not, like that

1:02:29.800 --> 1:02:33.920
<v Speaker 1>doesn't matter and you cannot change it. So the book

1:02:34.040 --> 1:02:38.440
<v Speaker 1>about Rhymer actually did influence several medical practices and reputations,

1:02:38.480 --> 1:02:42.840
<v Speaker 1>and it made the It actually accelerated the decline of

1:02:42.880 --> 1:02:46.680
<v Speaker 1>sex reassignment and surgery for unambiguous X Y infants with

1:02:46.800 --> 1:02:52.560
<v Speaker 1>micro penis or other congenital malformations or penile loss in infancy.

1:02:52.680 --> 1:02:56.040
<v Speaker 1>So him telling his story did help this become less prevalent,

1:02:56.120 --> 1:02:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and that's great. You know. His book also described these

1:03:00.120 --> 1:03:03.880
<v Speaker 1>psychotic childhood therapy sessions and heavily implied that Money ignored

1:03:04.280 --> 1:03:08.200
<v Speaker 1>or concealed all the evidence that Rhymer's reassignment to female

1:03:08.280 --> 1:03:11.920
<v Speaker 1>was not going well. Money stopped publicly commenting on the

1:03:11.960 --> 1:03:15.080
<v Speaker 1>case in nineteen eighty and never acknowledged that the experiment

1:03:15.120 --> 1:03:19.400
<v Speaker 1>was anything but a glowing success. And then this article

1:03:19.440 --> 1:03:22.120
<v Speaker 1>that I read was talking about Money was like, he

1:03:22.160 --> 1:03:25.320
<v Speaker 1>may have failed patients by encouraging them to conform to

1:03:25.360 --> 1:03:28.800
<v Speaker 1>a binary of understanding of sex that he himself didn't

1:03:28.880 --> 1:03:32.360
<v Speaker 1>entirely believe, like they were saying, he wasn't even sure

1:03:32.360 --> 1:03:35.760
<v Speaker 1>that his idea was valid because at the time he

1:03:35.800 --> 1:03:38.480
<v Speaker 1>played a significant role in helping transgender people in the

1:03:38.520 --> 1:03:41.200
<v Speaker 1>early days of medical intervention find support to live in

1:03:41.240 --> 1:03:45.880
<v Speaker 1>their affirmed gender. His position on trans people was that

1:03:45.960 --> 1:03:48.200
<v Speaker 1>if you were a biological male and you believed yourself

1:03:48.200 --> 1:03:50.760
<v Speaker 1>to be female, that was that was done and done.

1:03:50.840 --> 1:03:52.560
<v Speaker 1>It was such an important idea to you as a

1:03:52.560 --> 1:03:56.200
<v Speaker 1>person that it could not be contradicted. So this man

1:03:56.280 --> 1:04:00.160
<v Speaker 1>is very confusing because he has these progressive views.

1:03:59.800 --> 1:04:00.680
<v Speaker 2>And it's ego.

1:04:00.920 --> 1:04:01.640
<v Speaker 1>It's all ego.

1:04:01.840 --> 1:04:04.280
<v Speaker 2>It's like, yeah, because I mean, I went to college

1:04:04.320 --> 1:04:06.800
<v Speaker 2>a long time ago. I was a sociology major, and

1:04:06.920 --> 1:04:09.600
<v Speaker 2>like so much of experiments and ethics and all that,

1:04:09.680 --> 1:04:12.480
<v Speaker 2>and having like a hypothesis is like you take the

1:04:12.520 --> 1:04:16.640
<v Speaker 2>evidence as it is. You can't manipulate information to fit

1:04:16.680 --> 1:04:17.640
<v Speaker 2>your hypothesis.

1:04:17.720 --> 1:04:19.160
<v Speaker 1>It's like totally unethical.

1:04:19.240 --> 1:04:23.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm really shocked that no medical boards or the psychic

1:04:24.000 --> 1:04:28.440
<v Speaker 2>whatever psychology overhead people didn't go after him. And he

1:04:28.600 --> 1:04:32.160
<v Speaker 2>is molesting children, right, Well, that's that's so nuts too

1:04:32.160 --> 1:04:35.439
<v Speaker 2>of it. Yeah, I just I feel like he put

1:04:35.520 --> 1:04:38.840
<v Speaker 2>these kids through more damage than could have ever happened

1:04:38.840 --> 1:04:41.200
<v Speaker 2>to them if he just left them alone.

1:04:41.440 --> 1:04:41.520
<v Speaker 4>No.

1:04:41.640 --> 1:04:44.400
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, I don't know if there's like I mean child

1:04:44.440 --> 1:04:48.960
<v Speaker 1>in endangerment or like trauma, Like he definitely subjected these

1:04:49.080 --> 1:04:50.479
<v Speaker 1>children to trauma for sure.

1:04:50.600 --> 1:04:54.040
<v Speaker 2>We're making siblings touch each other naked and take photos

1:04:54.080 --> 1:04:57.800
<v Speaker 2>of them, like, how is that not child pornography?

1:04:58.800 --> 1:04:59.040
<v Speaker 4>I know.

1:05:00.000 --> 1:05:04.400
<v Speaker 1>So basically, what this article about doctor Money said was

1:05:04.440 --> 1:05:07.440
<v Speaker 1>that like he believed that people had the right to

1:05:07.440 --> 1:05:09.720
<v Speaker 1>their own gender identity and that they had the right

1:05:09.760 --> 1:05:11.800
<v Speaker 1>to the medical means to be whoever you want to be.

1:05:12.040 --> 1:05:14.120
<v Speaker 1>So it's just it's very confusing. I really want to

1:05:14.160 --> 1:05:16.360
<v Speaker 1>hate this man, and then he has ideas that are

1:05:16.720 --> 1:05:19.560
<v Speaker 1>good as well, but I think ultimately he's bad. You

1:05:19.560 --> 1:05:21.800
<v Speaker 1>can't treat children like little like they're having a little

1:05:21.800 --> 1:05:24.400
<v Speaker 1>sex play every week in therapy that's really disgusting.

1:05:24.480 --> 1:05:27.400
<v Speaker 2>And did you watch the documentary Three Identical Strangers?

1:05:27.800 --> 1:05:28.040
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

1:05:28.440 --> 1:05:31.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, did you watch it on a flight's No?

1:05:31.120 --> 1:05:33.240
<v Speaker 1>I saw it in the theater, Lisa. I saw it

1:05:33.280 --> 1:05:33.760
<v Speaker 1>in the theater.

1:05:34.040 --> 1:05:34.240
<v Speaker 2>You know.

1:05:34.280 --> 1:05:36.160
<v Speaker 1>When I saw it, I got movie pass and was like,

1:05:36.240 --> 1:05:38.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm seeing everything and I went to go see that

1:05:38.520 --> 1:05:41.200
<v Speaker 1>movie first, and then Movie Past folded a month later.

1:05:41.400 --> 1:05:43.320
<v Speaker 2>But that reminds me of that where it's like, you

1:05:43.360 --> 1:05:47.840
<v Speaker 2>can't just take children and decide to do experiments on them. Hello,

1:05:47.960 --> 1:05:51.000
<v Speaker 2>doctor Mangola, like you guys, fucking Nazis.

1:05:51.080 --> 1:05:53.600
<v Speaker 1>You don't get to fuck with people. People have equated

1:05:53.640 --> 1:05:56.840
<v Speaker 1>him in some articles to doctor Mangola. Okay, good, I'm glad.

1:05:56.880 --> 1:05:59.280
<v Speaker 1>I'm not the only one. I'm glad I said his name, right.

1:05:59.320 --> 1:06:02.080
<v Speaker 1>I was kind of a Now, did you nailed that?

1:06:02.280 --> 1:06:02.960
<v Speaker 1>You nailed it?

1:06:04.400 --> 1:06:04.560
<v Speaker 2>No?

1:06:05.040 --> 1:06:09.560
<v Speaker 1>And it's really you know, I watched the Okay. So

1:06:09.640 --> 1:06:12.840
<v Speaker 1>this story has a very sad ending because in two

1:06:12.880 --> 1:06:18.280
<v Speaker 1>thousand and two, Brian Rhymer, David's twin brother, overdosed of antidepressants,

1:06:18.320 --> 1:06:23.160
<v Speaker 1>which many people think was a suicide, and it's believed

1:06:23.160 --> 1:06:25.720
<v Speaker 1>to be I guess, not totally proven. And then in

1:06:25.760 --> 1:06:28.439
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and four, in the wake of his brother's death,

1:06:28.840 --> 1:06:31.680
<v Speaker 1>his wife asking him for a separation, and him getting

1:06:31.800 --> 1:06:35.840
<v Speaker 1>scammed in an investment scammed by some sketchball named Gary Perch.

1:06:36.280 --> 1:06:38.520
<v Speaker 1>David Rhymer took his own life as well in two

1:06:38.560 --> 1:06:41.000
<v Speaker 1>thousand and four. So both of these boys died within

1:06:41.080 --> 1:06:45.520
<v Speaker 1>two years of one another. But like, despite all the

1:06:45.560 --> 1:06:49.440
<v Speaker 1>hardships and everything he went through, David never blamed his parents.

1:06:49.480 --> 1:06:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Like he told the Cola Pinto, the guy who wrote

1:06:51.720 --> 1:06:53.680
<v Speaker 1>the book about him, and he said, mom and dad

1:06:53.720 --> 1:06:55.600
<v Speaker 1>wanted this to work so that I would be happy.

1:06:55.640 --> 1:06:58.120
<v Speaker 1>That's every parent's dream for their child. And I couldn't

1:06:58.120 --> 1:06:59.880
<v Speaker 1>be happy for my parents. I had to be happy

1:06:59.920 --> 1:07:02.440
<v Speaker 1>for me. You can't be something that you're not. You

1:07:02.520 --> 1:07:06.320
<v Speaker 1>have to be you. And I watched I'm like getting

1:07:06.520 --> 1:07:09.240
<v Speaker 1>teary though. It's like it's just so sad because the

1:07:09.280 --> 1:07:11.600
<v Speaker 1>parents really were trying to do the best thing for

1:07:11.720 --> 1:07:15.320
<v Speaker 1>him and they got swindled, and they got swindled, they

1:07:15.400 --> 1:07:17.760
<v Speaker 1>let it and like, so I watched this Oprah clip

1:07:17.800 --> 1:07:20.800
<v Speaker 1>with David Rhymer and he's just talking about his story

1:07:20.880 --> 1:07:23.400
<v Speaker 1>and talking about and the mom and Oprah's like saying

1:07:23.400 --> 1:07:26.200
<v Speaker 1>to the mom, so so you were just you just

1:07:26.240 --> 1:07:28.200
<v Speaker 1>bought into what this doctor said. She said, yeah, and

1:07:28.240 --> 1:07:31.160
<v Speaker 1>then once we listened to the doctor, we couldn't turn

1:07:31.360 --> 1:07:33.400
<v Speaker 1>we couldn't go back, you know, like there was no

1:07:33.440 --> 1:07:37.320
<v Speaker 1>turning back from that. So it was just really it

1:07:37.440 --> 1:07:39.400
<v Speaker 1>was really sad to You can watch this clip on

1:07:39.440 --> 1:07:42.360
<v Speaker 1>YouTube of David with his mom on Oprah and just

1:07:42.400 --> 1:07:46.560
<v Speaker 1>sort of like talking about how truly it was all

1:07:46.600 --> 1:07:49.560
<v Speaker 1>done in the name of living a normal life. So

1:07:49.560 --> 1:07:51.640
<v Speaker 1>it's like when you were talking about like, oh, they

1:07:51.920 --> 1:07:53.840
<v Speaker 1>the parents do all this stuff just like so their

1:07:53.920 --> 1:07:56.360
<v Speaker 1>kids don't get bullied, it was like, yeah, it was bullying.

1:07:56.480 --> 1:07:59.400
<v Speaker 1>It was like having a normal sex function, having a

1:07:59.560 --> 1:08:01.720
<v Speaker 1>wife and a family, and like you know, which is

1:08:01.760 --> 1:08:04.800
<v Speaker 1>all obviously very heteronormative goals anyway, Like who knows, you

1:08:04.800 --> 1:08:10.720
<v Speaker 1>could have been gay, but like everything that was done

1:08:10.920 --> 1:08:13.640
<v Speaker 1>was done with the idea that what is going to

1:08:13.640 --> 1:08:15.880
<v Speaker 1>make him have the most happy and smooth life, and

1:08:15.920 --> 1:08:19.280
<v Speaker 1>it really it did not work out that way.

1:08:19.840 --> 1:08:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. No, I definitely don't blame the parents for wanting

1:08:24.400 --> 1:08:28.160
<v Speaker 2>the best, but sometimes you just gotta see what happens

1:08:28.200 --> 1:08:29.200
<v Speaker 2>and not force something.

1:08:29.360 --> 1:08:32.080
<v Speaker 1>No, for sure, But I think also, like you're a

1:08:32.160 --> 1:08:36.240
<v Speaker 1>Mennonite couple from Winnipeg, Canada and a Harvard educated New

1:08:36.360 --> 1:08:40.960
<v Speaker 1>Zealand renowned sexologist is like, this is the solution. I

1:08:40.960 --> 1:08:44.680
<v Speaker 1>don't know. I could see myself being like, Okay, what

1:08:44.720 --> 1:08:47.200
<v Speaker 1>are we gonna do? Yeah, I've been to Winnipeg.

1:08:47.400 --> 1:08:49.200
<v Speaker 5>I also think it's important to note this is the

1:08:49.280 --> 1:08:52.360
<v Speaker 5>late nineteen sixties. There's no internet. This is such a

1:08:52.360 --> 1:08:56.040
<v Speaker 5>different time. This isn't today, So who knew what they

1:08:56.040 --> 1:08:57.040
<v Speaker 5>were talking about back then?

1:08:57.080 --> 1:08:59.680
<v Speaker 2>You trust the doctor, you go to the doctor. Yeah,

1:09:00.280 --> 1:09:04.840
<v Speaker 2>I'm just disgusted by so many things that he broke,

1:09:05.720 --> 1:09:10.000
<v Speaker 2>like trust, I'm he's I just that's so fucked up.

1:09:10.040 --> 1:09:12.080
<v Speaker 1>I know when he died in two thousand and six,

1:09:12.160 --> 1:09:14.879
<v Speaker 1>I believe, and he just never had to really answer

1:09:15.000 --> 1:09:17.679
<v Speaker 1>for any of this, Like he just I think everything,

1:09:17.720 --> 1:09:20.360
<v Speaker 1>he hit everything behind the name of science and then

1:09:21.640 --> 1:09:24.880
<v Speaker 1>never had to you know. It's like it's like when

1:09:24.880 --> 1:09:27.000
<v Speaker 1>that doctor in the episode is like, I'm going to

1:09:27.040 --> 1:09:29.160
<v Speaker 1>call the medical review board on you, It's like, how

1:09:29.280 --> 1:09:31.400
<v Speaker 1>dare you I'm going to call the medical review board

1:09:31.479 --> 1:09:35.080
<v Speaker 1>on you? Like you're doing this insane shit. But like

1:09:35.760 --> 1:09:37.680
<v Speaker 1>I guess when you're like in the medical field, you

1:09:37.680 --> 1:09:40.360
<v Speaker 1>can you can excuse a lot as like, no, this

1:09:40.439 --> 1:09:42.880
<v Speaker 1>is research. No, this is part of the process, Like

1:09:43.000 --> 1:09:47.519
<v Speaker 1>and you know, maybe you convinced judges that it's not criminal.

1:09:47.560 --> 1:09:48.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

1:09:48.240 --> 1:09:51.760
<v Speaker 2>And in Three Identical Strangers, one of the triplets ends

1:09:51.800 --> 1:09:55.320
<v Speaker 2>up committing suicide as well. Yes, like you can't fuck

1:09:55.400 --> 1:09:59.080
<v Speaker 2>with people's beings and lives and siblings like that for

1:09:59.200 --> 1:10:01.759
<v Speaker 2>in the name of science, Like, what the fuck?

1:10:02.000 --> 1:10:06.880
<v Speaker 1>It's really upsetting. That's a great call, Lisa. You guys,

1:10:06.920 --> 1:10:11.720
<v Speaker 1>everyone should watch Three Identical Strangers. It's a wild documentary.

1:10:11.960 --> 1:10:14.720
<v Speaker 2>I gave a little bit away, but it's still just

1:10:15.040 --> 1:10:16.600
<v Speaker 2>the story is pretty fucked up.

1:10:16.640 --> 1:10:18.280
<v Speaker 1>The story is very compelling.

1:10:18.520 --> 1:10:21.639
<v Speaker 2>It just goes against what therapists or doctors or science

1:10:21.680 --> 1:10:25.280
<v Speaker 2>is supposed to do. It's like your selfish need to

1:10:25.320 --> 1:10:27.360
<v Speaker 2>be some famous person is.

1:10:28.600 --> 1:10:30.360
<v Speaker 1>And it's kind of like with Freud, where.

1:10:30.160 --> 1:10:33.559
<v Speaker 2>It's like I can't believe how much of his stuff

1:10:33.840 --> 1:10:37.599
<v Speaker 2>we used today, Like this guy came up with gendering

1:10:37.600 --> 1:10:40.559
<v Speaker 2>to all of these things, and it's like, it's just

1:10:40.600 --> 1:10:45.919
<v Speaker 2>shocking how one fucking fool from New Zealand is created

1:10:46.000 --> 1:10:48.120
<v Speaker 2>so much of our language and point of view.

1:10:48.160 --> 1:10:50.679
<v Speaker 1>Who did this? But I don't know. It is very later,

1:10:50.800 --> 1:10:53.400
<v Speaker 1>and there was like some research that was saying that

1:10:53.479 --> 1:10:58.720
<v Speaker 1>like feminists, like radical feminists, were really pro money his

1:10:58.920 --> 1:11:02.160
<v Speaker 1>ideas because they were like, this just proves that women

1:11:02.400 --> 1:11:06.400
<v Speaker 1>are nurtured into being quote unquote the weaker sex, or like,

1:11:06.920 --> 1:11:10.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, we're just as strong as men biologically, we're

1:11:10.200 --> 1:11:13.120
<v Speaker 1>just as good, and it's like we get changed from

1:11:13.240 --> 1:11:15.400
<v Speaker 1>society or whatever. And I was like, I don't know,

1:11:15.400 --> 1:11:17.559
<v Speaker 1>I don't know what that feminism today would be. Well,

1:11:17.600 --> 1:11:18.360
<v Speaker 1>that's the whole thing.

1:11:18.360 --> 1:11:22.320
<v Speaker 2>You want science, right, you're supposed to not have these

1:11:22.600 --> 1:11:27.320
<v Speaker 2>like your like your opinions should not impede the science.

1:11:27.439 --> 1:11:29.520
<v Speaker 1>Like science is supposed to be objective.

1:11:29.560 --> 1:11:31.519
<v Speaker 2>You should not have I don't know if it's different

1:11:31.520 --> 1:11:34.960
<v Speaker 2>for psychologists, but that's the fucking point is. Yeah, you

1:11:35.000 --> 1:11:37.240
<v Speaker 2>go into it with a blank slate and you take

1:11:37.280 --> 1:11:41.160
<v Speaker 2>the evidence, and that's what happens. You don't manipulate shit

1:11:41.280 --> 1:11:45.320
<v Speaker 2>to prove your own theory. That's an egomaniac. Let's fucking

1:11:45.360 --> 1:11:47.559
<v Speaker 2>dig up his body, all right, that's what I want.

1:11:47.720 --> 1:11:49.080
<v Speaker 2>I want a fucking trial.

1:11:49.520 --> 1:11:52.640
<v Speaker 1>All right, Well, Lisa and I are going to go

1:11:52.680 --> 1:11:55.320
<v Speaker 1>grab some shovels and we'll be right back with our

1:11:55.800 --> 1:12:07.759
<v Speaker 1>special guests. Okay, now it is time for our guest interview.

1:12:07.840 --> 1:12:12.000
<v Speaker 1>I am beyond excited to have this next Tony nominated

1:12:12.040 --> 1:12:15.639
<v Speaker 1>actress on our podcast. You guys have seen her in

1:12:16.120 --> 1:12:18.719
<v Speaker 1>Fried Green Tomatoes, Benny and June, some kind of wonderful.

1:12:18.800 --> 1:12:23.519
<v Speaker 1>She is amazing. She has her own sustainable production facility

1:12:23.560 --> 1:12:26.200
<v Speaker 1>in the Hudson Valley in New York, which is very

1:12:26.400 --> 1:12:30.200
<v Speaker 1>impressive called up River Studios, and she has a multiple

1:12:30.240 --> 1:12:32.880
<v Speaker 1>episode arc on SVU and you all know her as

1:12:32.920 --> 1:12:36.280
<v Speaker 1>doctor Rebecca Hendricks. Please check out our interview with Mary

1:12:36.320 --> 1:12:37.240
<v Speaker 1>Stuart Masterson.

1:12:38.400 --> 1:12:41.120
<v Speaker 2>You did reveal before we started you have a donkey,

1:12:41.280 --> 1:12:43.479
<v Speaker 2>and I didn't think i'd be jealous, but I am.

1:12:44.960 --> 1:12:48.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, it's a mini donkey, so she's just like a

1:12:48.880 --> 1:12:49.639
<v Speaker 4>giant dog.

1:12:50.960 --> 1:12:53.680
<v Speaker 1>And I got a mini donkey yeah.

1:12:53.400 --> 1:12:58.439
<v Speaker 4>And two bunnies and a dog, yes, a new wow,

1:12:58.640 --> 1:13:01.320
<v Speaker 4>five month old dog that's as big as my eleven

1:13:01.400 --> 1:13:01.720
<v Speaker 4>year old.

1:13:01.960 --> 1:13:04.759
<v Speaker 1>He's going to be massive, So that's insane.

1:13:05.080 --> 1:13:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Have you seen the viral videos of dogs riding donkeys?

1:13:10.960 --> 1:13:12.920
<v Speaker 4>No, I can't believe I've missed that.

1:13:13.000 --> 1:13:17.760
<v Speaker 1>You might have a bright future in TikTok. We are

1:13:18.040 --> 1:13:20.400
<v Speaker 1>so excited to talk to you, like I'm just like

1:13:20.439 --> 1:13:22.599
<v Speaker 1>a huge fan from all of your movies that you've

1:13:22.640 --> 1:13:26.880
<v Speaker 1>been in. But then obviously your iconic five episode arc

1:13:27.000 --> 1:13:29.280
<v Speaker 1>on SVU is what we're here to talk to you about.

1:13:30.160 --> 1:13:32.200
<v Speaker 1>I feel like, I don't know. Your character just seemed

1:13:32.240 --> 1:13:34.439
<v Speaker 1>like such a big deal. I truly was like, it's

1:13:34.479 --> 1:13:37.400
<v Speaker 1>only five episodes. I thought you were in like fifteen episodes,

1:13:37.760 --> 1:13:39.880
<v Speaker 1>because every time they bring you back, like that last

1:13:39.920 --> 1:13:41.719
<v Speaker 1>time they brought you back, it was like a reveal

1:13:42.040 --> 1:13:42.760
<v Speaker 1>that you were there.

1:13:43.160 --> 1:13:48.080
<v Speaker 4>You know, Yeah, that very that very special episode where

1:13:48.160 --> 1:13:51.880
<v Speaker 4>I'm such a good shrink that I a cured stabler

1:13:52.000 --> 1:13:55.240
<v Speaker 4>in like fifteen minutes without a comb break. I mean

1:13:56.040 --> 1:13:59.640
<v Speaker 4>that's like, thanks, I should wear a cape and if

1:13:59.680 --> 1:14:02.360
<v Speaker 4>only therapy we're that effective that fast.

1:14:02.439 --> 1:14:03.000
<v Speaker 1>It's great.

1:14:03.520 --> 1:14:05.320
<v Speaker 2>Well. I also loved your line at the end. It

1:14:05.320 --> 1:14:08.320
<v Speaker 2>was so dramatic where he's like should we captain? Craigan

1:14:08.479 --> 1:14:10.880
<v Speaker 2>asks like should we separate them? And You're like, only

1:14:10.880 --> 1:14:13.160
<v Speaker 2>if you want to lose the two best detectives you've

1:14:13.200 --> 1:14:13.760
<v Speaker 2>ever had.

1:14:15.720 --> 1:14:20.759
<v Speaker 4>I'll be honest, I don't remember anything, guys. It's really

1:14:20.840 --> 1:14:22.240
<v Speaker 4>like another lie time.

1:14:22.800 --> 1:14:26.839
<v Speaker 1>I know, and everybody has lives, but we obviously remember everything,

1:14:26.920 --> 1:14:28.280
<v Speaker 1>and everyone.

1:14:27.960 --> 1:14:32.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, we wanted to share that we've been in a

1:14:32.000 --> 1:14:35.880
<v Speaker 2>few episodes, but you're the one episode Identity with the

1:14:36.040 --> 1:14:39.800
<v Speaker 2>Twins is our number one viewer requested episode to cover

1:14:40.320 --> 1:14:42.719
<v Speaker 2>really four hundred and eighty plus episode.

1:14:42.760 --> 1:14:45.080
<v Speaker 1>No, we get like a message a day that's like,

1:14:45.160 --> 1:14:46.760
<v Speaker 1>you have to do the one with the Twins. Like,

1:14:47.000 --> 1:14:53.040
<v Speaker 1>so everybody is obsessed with this episode. That's amazing, certainly topical.

1:14:53.360 --> 1:14:56.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean no, yes, now I feel like it's really

1:14:56.280 --> 1:14:59.439
<v Speaker 1>really an interesting It's it's interesting to go back to

1:14:59.560 --> 1:15:01.360
<v Speaker 1>and just see the way the show is talking about

1:15:01.400 --> 1:15:04.519
<v Speaker 1>like gender identity and stuff like that. So yeah, I mean,

1:15:04.600 --> 1:15:07.320
<v Speaker 1>because you must have had no idea back then that

1:15:08.280 --> 1:15:10.479
<v Speaker 1>like this episode of television was going to resonate with

1:15:10.479 --> 1:15:14.080
<v Speaker 1>so many people into going on ten or fifteen years later.

1:15:14.120 --> 1:15:16.280
<v Speaker 1>I forget what year is this episode?

1:15:16.600 --> 1:15:20.120
<v Speaker 4>I know, god, what was it, two thousand and four something.

1:15:19.960 --> 1:15:22.519
<v Speaker 1>Like that, Yeah, fifteen years Yeah.

1:15:22.439 --> 1:15:26.040
<v Speaker 4>No, I certainly did not think of that at all.

1:15:26.120 --> 1:15:30.160
<v Speaker 4>And in fact, I just I just always loved Marishka

1:15:30.240 --> 1:15:36.439
<v Speaker 4>as a person, and ironically she's so incredible this brand

1:15:36.479 --> 1:15:39.880
<v Speaker 4>of drama. But she is one of the funnier people

1:15:39.920 --> 1:15:43.920
<v Speaker 4>I've ever met, and so people say she's hilarious. She's

1:15:44.000 --> 1:15:47.479
<v Speaker 4>so funny, she's so sharp and such a lovely human.

1:15:47.520 --> 1:15:49.760
<v Speaker 4>So I was like, yeah, let's do this thing. And

1:15:50.280 --> 1:15:53.559
<v Speaker 4>also for all actors. At the time, I was mostly

1:15:53.560 --> 1:15:55.760
<v Speaker 4>in the theater in the city. I was doing a

1:15:55.760 --> 1:16:00.760
<v Speaker 4>Broadway musical right before that, and so it's the actor's

1:16:01.000 --> 1:16:03.840
<v Speaker 4>annuity to be in a law and order show, you know,

1:16:04.120 --> 1:16:07.679
<v Speaker 4>it's like the best. So but yeah, no, I didn't.

1:16:07.720 --> 1:16:11.160
<v Speaker 4>I never thought that it would be a fifteen year

1:16:11.280 --> 1:16:13.679
<v Speaker 4>legacy on an episode of TV.

1:16:14.120 --> 1:16:15.920
<v Speaker 1>When they reached out to you about this character, did

1:16:15.960 --> 1:16:17.479
<v Speaker 1>they know that it was going to be sort of

1:16:17.479 --> 1:16:19.439
<v Speaker 1>like a like a you'd come back a few more

1:16:19.479 --> 1:16:21.360
<v Speaker 1>times or did you think it was a one off?

1:16:21.720 --> 1:16:23.960
<v Speaker 4>I think they it was going to be a recurring part,

1:16:24.040 --> 1:16:27.040
<v Speaker 4>but only a few episodes. I think it was an

1:16:27.200 --> 1:16:30.360
<v Speaker 4>initially I think it was three, and then it just

1:16:30.760 --> 1:16:33.800
<v Speaker 4>you know, there were a couple more, I think. But yeah,

1:16:33.840 --> 1:16:35.880
<v Speaker 4>so it wasn't it wasn't going to be a long

1:16:36.000 --> 1:16:39.240
<v Speaker 4>term thing. But but it was fun being there, you know.

1:16:39.960 --> 1:16:42.320
<v Speaker 1>And who's to say it was your last episode? I mean,

1:16:42.760 --> 1:16:45.680
<v Speaker 1>my god, it's still going Stabler's coming back, so they

1:16:45.760 --> 1:16:47.479
<v Speaker 1>might need you to come back and sort of review

1:16:47.479 --> 1:16:48.360
<v Speaker 1>how they're doing now.

1:16:48.760 --> 1:16:53.240
<v Speaker 4>It's still funny. My family watches the voice together because

1:16:53.240 --> 1:16:56.599
<v Speaker 4>it is so much fun. And they were running the

1:16:56.640 --> 1:17:00.000
<v Speaker 4>promos for that you know what as.

1:17:00.120 --> 1:17:08.200
<v Speaker 1>It organized, right, and my voice is on that promo.

1:17:08.200 --> 1:17:12.120
<v Speaker 4>No, and my husband said, wait, that's you.

1:17:12.280 --> 1:17:13.080
<v Speaker 1>That's your voice.

1:17:13.240 --> 1:17:14.920
<v Speaker 4>And I was like, wait, what do you mean? He said,

1:17:15.000 --> 1:17:17.479
<v Speaker 4>you know, do you think you and Sablers make good partners?

1:17:18.200 --> 1:17:21.280
<v Speaker 4>I think here's the line? Yes, and and I was like,

1:17:21.320 --> 1:17:22.920
<v Speaker 4>oh my gosh, you're right, that is me.

1:17:23.240 --> 1:17:25.639
<v Speaker 1>And then you're like, I got to get SAG after

1:17:25.680 --> 1:17:28.400
<v Speaker 1>all on the phone, because hello, you're in that promo

1:17:30.200 --> 1:17:32.799
<v Speaker 1>and your husband is on SVO.

1:17:34.040 --> 1:17:38.479
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, oh such a bad guy. Yeah, we're always like

1:17:38.560 --> 1:17:44.519
<v Speaker 4>purper Vic. You know, he's been both, but mostly I've

1:17:44.560 --> 1:17:45.960
<v Speaker 4>been you know, the doctor.

1:17:46.160 --> 1:17:49.519
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I wonder do you think there's any chances

1:17:49.560 --> 1:17:50.400
<v Speaker 1>that she'll come back.

1:17:50.840 --> 1:17:54.120
<v Speaker 4>No one has reached out. I would not say. I

1:17:54.120 --> 1:17:55.599
<v Speaker 4>would say the chances are zero.

1:17:55.920 --> 1:17:57.960
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't say that though, because you know, somebody in

1:17:58.040 --> 1:17:59.880
<v Speaker 1>casting has reached out and tell us that they listen

1:17:59.920 --> 1:18:03.639
<v Speaker 1>to this podcast, so oh so, and it's not zero.

1:18:04.000 --> 1:18:06.160
<v Speaker 1>If they come knocking, yeah, I would say I would

1:18:06.160 --> 1:18:09.040
<v Speaker 1>put it at a strong three percent. That's very strong.

1:18:09.600 --> 1:18:12.160
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, I'll bring my donkey. It'll be great.

1:18:12.320 --> 1:18:15.559
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh. Sometimes they go up into the Hudson

1:18:15.640 --> 1:18:18.080
<v Speaker 1>River Valley for the show. They they'll go see like

1:18:18.160 --> 1:18:22.280
<v Speaker 1>a Jewish sect, a community, or like you know, they'll

1:18:22.560 --> 1:18:26.200
<v Speaker 1>sort of venture up state sometimes. Why not. So, how

1:18:26.280 --> 1:18:28.640
<v Speaker 1>what was it like working with Christopher Maloney, Because I

1:18:28.640 --> 1:18:32.040
<v Speaker 1>mean we were talking about how Stabler like famously hates shrinks.

1:18:32.080 --> 1:18:34.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean they're like there's all these like moments in

1:18:34.320 --> 1:18:35.760
<v Speaker 1>the show where they're like, you really need to talk

1:18:35.800 --> 1:18:37.240
<v Speaker 1>to someone and he's like, I don't need any of

1:18:37.240 --> 1:18:39.840
<v Speaker 1>that garbage. And then like your character comes on and

1:18:39.880 --> 1:18:43.400
<v Speaker 1>suddenly he's like, you know, the psychiatric profession is very admirable.

1:18:43.520 --> 1:18:47.599
<v Speaker 1>Like suddenly he loves like shrinks, and there's definitely some

1:18:47.840 --> 1:18:49.160
<v Speaker 1>tension between you two.

1:18:49.960 --> 1:18:50.400
<v Speaker 4>Yeah.

1:18:50.600 --> 1:18:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:18:51.200 --> 1:18:56.439
<v Speaker 4>I think one of the more amazing things about doctor

1:18:56.800 --> 1:18:59.960
<v Speaker 4>Rebecca Hendrix was not just that she and a live

1:19:00.160 --> 1:19:03.160
<v Speaker 4>I met at the Academy and that she completed that,

1:19:04.000 --> 1:19:06.920
<v Speaker 4>as you know, part of her life, but she also

1:19:07.000 --> 1:19:11.320
<v Speaker 4>went to medical school and also a psychiatric residency and

1:19:11.479 --> 1:19:15.599
<v Speaker 4>was also the head of Bellevue by the time I

1:19:15.640 --> 1:19:17.839
<v Speaker 4>was at the time in my thirties. I was like, wow,

1:19:19.439 --> 1:19:22.439
<v Speaker 4>and in private practice, you know, so I was like,

1:19:22.640 --> 1:19:25.240
<v Speaker 4>I'm extremely successful.

1:19:24.800 --> 1:19:28.599
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and you're a very an overachiever. Yeah.

1:19:28.960 --> 1:19:32.000
<v Speaker 4>No, I think probably it's you know, the knowledge, the

1:19:32.040 --> 1:19:37.000
<v Speaker 4>deep knowledge of law enforcement in the Doctor Hendrix's background

1:19:37.080 --> 1:19:39.280
<v Speaker 4>might have made them a little more willing to trust

1:19:39.280 --> 1:19:42.559
<v Speaker 4>that I understood the job. But yeah, no, Chris is great.

1:19:42.640 --> 1:19:48.320
<v Speaker 4>Chris is a wonderful actor, very very supportive to guests,

1:19:48.400 --> 1:19:52.839
<v Speaker 4>you know, always, and that's it's a terrible thing usually

1:19:52.840 --> 1:19:54.840
<v Speaker 4>to be a guest, because you know, you come in

1:19:54.880 --> 1:19:57.960
<v Speaker 4>and that the train is moving and you jump on,

1:19:58.880 --> 1:20:03.599
<v Speaker 4>and sometimes people are just too tired to really give

1:20:03.640 --> 1:20:07.640
<v Speaker 4>a crap and be kind and thoughtful of guests.

1:20:07.320 --> 1:20:08.720
<v Speaker 1>You know. And they were there.

1:20:08.760 --> 1:20:12.320
<v Speaker 4>Everybody was just really great and really nice. And no

1:20:12.680 --> 1:20:14.920
<v Speaker 4>matter who you are, where you come from, it's very

1:20:15.360 --> 1:20:19.240
<v Speaker 4>disconcerting to come onto a show as a guest, especially

1:20:19.280 --> 1:20:20.880
<v Speaker 4>if you're going to recur and supposed to have an

1:20:20.920 --> 1:20:24.240
<v Speaker 4>actual character of it, you know, instead of just sort

1:20:24.240 --> 1:20:28.320
<v Speaker 4>of come in and exit with the plot. So he

1:20:28.439 --> 1:20:31.639
<v Speaker 4>was really good. He was really, really really good.

1:20:32.240 --> 1:20:34.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he I mean being able to be like in

1:20:34.920 --> 1:20:37.800
<v Speaker 1>a flirty situation with Elliott Stabler is pretty much like

1:20:38.000 --> 1:20:40.800
<v Speaker 1>the lifetime goal of all of our listeners. So you've

1:20:40.840 --> 1:20:45.280
<v Speaker 1>accomplished it, and very horny listeners. Yeah, they're really very

1:20:45.280 --> 1:20:47.679
<v Speaker 1>horny for Stabler for sure, and I mean a few

1:20:47.680 --> 1:20:51.400
<v Speaker 1>other characters as well. But yeah, but you and Olivia

1:20:51.520 --> 1:20:54.280
<v Speaker 1>had such a like tension too, like where it was

1:20:54.280 --> 1:20:55.800
<v Speaker 1>like you knew each other from the academy, but like

1:20:55.840 --> 1:20:58.439
<v Speaker 1>she was mad at you for leaving, for leaving like

1:20:58.479 --> 1:20:59.639
<v Speaker 1>the profession and.

1:21:00.120 --> 1:21:06.160
<v Speaker 4>Frenemies and yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, And it could be

1:21:06.560 --> 1:21:11.440
<v Speaker 4>it could be strange to have someone get attention from Stabler.

1:21:13.360 --> 1:21:16.320
<v Speaker 1>No, I don't know, there's a whole universe where people,

1:21:16.400 --> 1:21:19.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, create these relationships between these characters that don't exist.

1:21:19.280 --> 1:21:22.280
<v Speaker 1>We're not super into that. But he has a wife

1:21:22.280 --> 1:21:25.200
<v Speaker 1>the entire time, but in your specific episodes, his wife

1:21:25.200 --> 1:21:28.519
<v Speaker 1>and him have separated. He kind of flirting with you,

1:21:28.600 --> 1:21:30.640
<v Speaker 1>and she's like, I get you're on the rebound, but

1:21:30.680 --> 1:21:32.400
<v Speaker 1>why don't you leave it at home? Like she's mad

1:21:32.439 --> 1:21:33.559
<v Speaker 1>at him for flirting with you.

1:21:34.080 --> 1:21:37.360
<v Speaker 4>Good. If you're a therapist, you know to welcome the transference.

1:21:37.439 --> 1:21:42.360
<v Speaker 4>Whatever gets your your patient to open up and trust you.

1:21:43.400 --> 1:21:45.760
<v Speaker 4>That was that was That was all intentional.

1:21:46.160 --> 1:21:50.519
<v Speaker 1>Sure, yeah, did you do? Did you like when you're

1:21:50.680 --> 1:21:53.240
<v Speaker 1>about to play like a five episode or a few

1:21:53.280 --> 1:21:55.720
<v Speaker 1>episodes arec on a show as a psychiatrist, Like do

1:21:55.800 --> 1:21:58.639
<v Speaker 1>you speak to a psychiatrist? Do you do any research

1:21:58.760 --> 1:21:59.320
<v Speaker 1>before him?

1:21:59.400 --> 1:22:02.200
<v Speaker 4>Oh? Yes, I would consider the seven years of therapy

1:22:02.280 --> 1:22:03.000
<v Speaker 4>good research.

1:22:04.720 --> 1:22:08.320
<v Speaker 1>Ah. Same, I'm ready for my role as a psychiatrist

1:22:08.560 --> 1:22:08.840
<v Speaker 1>as well.

1:22:08.880 --> 1:22:11.360
<v Speaker 4>I'll have all the psychiatrists to follow, you know.

1:22:13.080 --> 1:22:15.240
<v Speaker 1>Can I ask a really random question, where does the

1:22:15.280 --> 1:22:17.479
<v Speaker 1>mini donkey sleep? Does it go in the house or

1:22:17.479 --> 1:22:19.080
<v Speaker 1>does it have like a little barn or what?

1:22:19.240 --> 1:22:21.479
<v Speaker 4>Yes, she has she has a run in shed and

1:22:21.520 --> 1:22:24.200
<v Speaker 4>she has her own quarter of an acre really with

1:22:24.280 --> 1:22:26.639
<v Speaker 4>them with vents around it. She's got a really good

1:22:26.680 --> 1:22:29.720
<v Speaker 4>situation and we you know, clean up after, bring her

1:22:29.760 --> 1:22:31.919
<v Speaker 4>her food, and she doesn't really go anywhere.

1:22:32.680 --> 1:22:34.160
<v Speaker 1>She's having a great quarantine.

1:22:34.400 --> 1:22:37.720
<v Speaker 4>She's good. She's totally good, no difference to her. She's like,

1:22:37.800 --> 1:22:40.439
<v Speaker 4>it's exactly the same as it was. I see them more,

1:22:40.520 --> 1:22:41.120
<v Speaker 4>which is good.

1:22:42.560 --> 1:22:44.960
<v Speaker 1>Just to ask you a couple more s V questions,

1:22:45.120 --> 1:22:47.280
<v Speaker 1>we like to ask this one, but especially I think

1:22:47.280 --> 1:22:49.559
<v Speaker 1>this is a good question for you. If you needed

1:22:49.560 --> 1:22:55.559
<v Speaker 1>a detective, would you call Benson or stabler. Hmmm, that's

1:22:55.600 --> 1:22:58.920
<v Speaker 1>a good one, Kara. Someone is missing, someone is something

1:22:58.960 --> 1:23:01.840
<v Speaker 1>that has gone amok. Who do you call Benzoner's table are?

1:23:02.280 --> 1:23:02.599
<v Speaker 2>I mean?

1:23:02.680 --> 1:23:07.559
<v Speaker 4>I think I think Benson because it just you know,

1:23:08.080 --> 1:23:10.480
<v Speaker 4>but you know, they really are so good together.

1:23:10.680 --> 1:23:13.000
<v Speaker 1>So true. It's an impossible question.

1:23:13.439 --> 1:23:15.600
<v Speaker 4>It's very hard because they you know, the yin and

1:23:15.680 --> 1:23:19.080
<v Speaker 4>yang of it all. They're very good together, the emotional

1:23:19.640 --> 1:23:27.800
<v Speaker 4>connection and the cerebral detachment. A logician versus the magician. No,

1:23:28.600 --> 1:23:31.679
<v Speaker 4>it's hard to pick. That's Olivia though, you know, because

1:23:31.720 --> 1:23:34.160
<v Speaker 4>I like no whether no founts to.

1:23:36.080 --> 1:23:38.920
<v Speaker 1>I know we're not positive Rebecca Hendrix is ever going

1:23:39.000 --> 1:23:41.760
<v Speaker 1>to come back. But what about you? It's now been

1:23:41.920 --> 1:23:44.080
<v Speaker 1>like a decade since Rebecca Hendrix has been on and

1:23:44.080 --> 1:23:46.000
<v Speaker 1>they bring people back all the time as different roles.

1:23:46.000 --> 1:23:48.320
<v Speaker 1>If you could go back to SVU, would you want

1:23:48.320 --> 1:23:52.439
<v Speaker 1>to play something different? Would you want to be a cop?

1:23:52.560 --> 1:23:55.080
<v Speaker 1>Would you want to be a bad mom? Or like

1:23:55.120 --> 1:23:57.599
<v Speaker 1>what kind of do you have? Any kind of No?

1:23:57.640 --> 1:23:58.400
<v Speaker 4>I would you know what?

1:23:58.479 --> 1:23:59.200
<v Speaker 1>I would?

1:23:59.360 --> 1:24:02.720
<v Speaker 4>I would enjoy being on a show where I'm you know,

1:24:02.960 --> 1:24:05.960
<v Speaker 4>a stablery kind of a part, like a detective or

1:24:07.280 --> 1:24:11.519
<v Speaker 4>and also like all these all these hospital shows. I'm

1:24:11.560 --> 1:24:14.960
<v Speaker 4>like weirdly into medical things, like I just can remember

1:24:15.120 --> 1:24:18.559
<v Speaker 4>the the anatomical names for the you know, like I

1:24:18.600 --> 1:24:20.599
<v Speaker 4>just like I was always like, oh, I would love

1:24:20.600 --> 1:24:23.519
<v Speaker 4>to have my my script in the body of the

1:24:23.760 --> 1:24:26.400
<v Speaker 4>of the fake dead, of the fake patient on the

1:24:26.439 --> 1:24:28.680
<v Speaker 4>table like everybody else, and just like rattle off all

1:24:28.680 --> 1:24:31.360
<v Speaker 4>this jargon that it would be so fun to be

1:24:31.439 --> 1:24:32.920
<v Speaker 4>on like Grey's Anatomy or something.

1:24:33.160 --> 1:24:35.479
<v Speaker 2>Wait, I didn't know people hide scripts in their fake

1:24:35.560 --> 1:24:37.080
<v Speaker 2>dead bodies. That's a scoop.

1:24:37.120 --> 1:24:38.439
<v Speaker 1>I feel, Oh, oh.

1:24:38.320 --> 1:24:41.720
<v Speaker 4>Absolutely, how could you possibly learn all of that? I mean,

1:24:42.080 --> 1:24:44.840
<v Speaker 4>they have a gurny and they just tape the dialogue

1:24:44.840 --> 1:24:47.800
<v Speaker 4>to a thing sometimes because they're like wow, well or

1:24:47.840 --> 1:24:51.439
<v Speaker 4>the medical consultants or whatever, we'll say sorry, that's not

1:24:52.120 --> 1:24:55.360
<v Speaker 4>yeah lingo, and didn't get the script in time, and

1:24:55.400 --> 1:24:59.560
<v Speaker 4>they'll switch it out to a cardiothoracic bloody blah, and

1:24:59.560 --> 1:25:02.200
<v Speaker 4>they're like, I thought I was working on the GI tract.

1:25:02.200 --> 1:25:07.000
<v Speaker 4>Oh well, they'll just have to know it somehow, and

1:25:07.080 --> 1:25:09.760
<v Speaker 4>that's how they do it. So no, some people do that,

1:25:09.960 --> 1:25:15.160
<v Speaker 4>some people don't. Some people tape the script to their

1:25:15.200 --> 1:25:17.920
<v Speaker 4>scene partner's chest so they can sort of look them

1:25:17.920 --> 1:25:21.599
<v Speaker 4>in the eye. I've seen everything, my gosh. Yeah, they

1:25:21.600 --> 1:25:24.519
<v Speaker 4>don't have teleprompters. And it's just like, you shouldn't be

1:25:24.560 --> 1:25:27.599
<v Speaker 4>looking like you're trying to remember your lines right better

1:25:27.680 --> 1:25:31.200
<v Speaker 4>that you're playing the intention of the scene. If you

1:25:31.280 --> 1:25:34.200
<v Speaker 4>don't know the lines better that you get the help

1:25:34.240 --> 1:25:34.679
<v Speaker 4>you need.

1:25:36.000 --> 1:25:37.320
<v Speaker 1>Just read them off your partner's ches.

1:25:37.520 --> 1:25:40.800
<v Speaker 4>Be a hero man. Just don't make your eyes go

1:25:40.960 --> 1:25:48.480
<v Speaker 4>like this left or right. That's a dead giveaway.

1:25:50.640 --> 1:25:52.760
<v Speaker 1>That was just truly thrilling for me. I know that.

1:25:52.920 --> 1:25:55.559
<v Speaker 1>I think Lisa, maybe you missed some of her movies

1:25:55.600 --> 1:25:58.000
<v Speaker 1>in your life, but like she was such an idol

1:25:58.040 --> 1:26:00.679
<v Speaker 1>to me growing up. She was like such a cool actress.

1:26:00.720 --> 1:26:03.280
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like so so excited we got to talk

1:26:03.320 --> 1:26:03.759
<v Speaker 1>to her.

1:26:04.200 --> 1:26:07.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I am kind of very super into her life.

1:26:07.800 --> 1:26:12.439
<v Speaker 1>I like her hot SVU alum husband, her mini donk donk. Yeah.

1:26:12.479 --> 1:26:16.639
<v Speaker 2>I love her farm life and just living it up

1:26:16.760 --> 1:26:20.240
<v Speaker 2>during the pandemic. And that's a weird thing to say,

1:26:20.920 --> 1:26:25.479
<v Speaker 2>but I was just very into her spirit, I would say,

1:26:25.520 --> 1:26:26.360
<v Speaker 2>and her highlights.

1:26:26.680 --> 1:26:29.040
<v Speaker 1>You guys didn't get to see her, but she looks amazing, No,

1:26:29.120 --> 1:26:31.640
<v Speaker 1>and she looks so young, like she literally looks the

1:26:31.680 --> 1:26:34.280
<v Speaker 1>same as she did, and like, you're like, I kind

1:26:34.280 --> 1:26:36.960
<v Speaker 1>of get why Stabler was fishing around during a separation.

1:26:38.640 --> 1:26:40.559
<v Speaker 1>But let's get into our post mortem. What did we

1:26:40.640 --> 1:26:43.000
<v Speaker 1>learn from today? I mean, first of all, we learned

1:26:43.040 --> 1:26:46.800
<v Speaker 1>that this episode was so close. I remember when people

1:26:46.840 --> 1:26:48.639
<v Speaker 1>started requesting it, I was like, I got to check

1:26:48.680 --> 1:26:50.080
<v Speaker 1>and make sure it's based on a crime. And then

1:26:50.080 --> 1:26:52.439
<v Speaker 1>I was like, okay, it's based on It is based

1:26:52.439 --> 1:26:55.640
<v Speaker 1>on a thing happening to this to this boy, And

1:26:55.720 --> 1:26:58.240
<v Speaker 1>I just had no idea that basically the whole episode,

1:26:58.400 --> 1:27:02.439
<v Speaker 1>minus Luis getting through off the roof, is identical to

1:27:02.479 --> 1:27:05.920
<v Speaker 1>what happened. Yeah, I'm shocks, except for them killing the therapist.

1:27:06.000 --> 1:27:08.080
<v Speaker 1>They never killed doctor Money. He died on his own.

1:27:08.560 --> 1:27:11.640
<v Speaker 2>I thought it was totally gonna be an episode of

1:27:11.680 --> 1:27:15.800
<v Speaker 2>ours where we talk about theories or different hodgepodges of cases.

1:27:16.120 --> 1:27:20.200
<v Speaker 2>I did not anticipate just this like monster of a

1:27:20.280 --> 1:27:23.600
<v Speaker 2>therapist ruining the lives of these boys and parents and

1:27:23.640 --> 1:27:27.880
<v Speaker 2>taking advantage of people in distress like they did. But yeah,

1:27:27.920 --> 1:27:32.719
<v Speaker 2>circumcision is so tough too, and these parents in the case,

1:27:33.160 --> 1:27:35.760
<v Speaker 2>it's like they decided not to do it, and then

1:27:35.960 --> 1:27:39.400
<v Speaker 2>a medical issue kind of made them do it, and

1:27:39.479 --> 1:27:42.760
<v Speaker 2>then this happens. I'm sure they blame themselves. Being a

1:27:42.840 --> 1:27:45.120
<v Speaker 2>parent seems hard. You want to do all the best

1:27:45.240 --> 1:27:48.759
<v Speaker 2>and it's never enough. And I just can't imagine the guilt.

1:27:49.000 --> 1:27:52.040
<v Speaker 2>And it's just so sad that these kids committed suicide.

1:27:52.160 --> 1:27:55.360
<v Speaker 1>It's just like a real fucking bummer. Well, I think

1:27:55.360 --> 1:27:58.080
<v Speaker 1>the silver lining a little bit is that David did

1:27:58.120 --> 1:28:02.320
<v Speaker 1>have years of like reclaiming his identity and living as

1:28:02.360 --> 1:28:05.360
<v Speaker 1>a man happily, and he did have happy times with

1:28:05.439 --> 1:28:08.160
<v Speaker 1>his wife and his three adopted children. And you know,

1:28:08.920 --> 1:28:13.120
<v Speaker 1>it's interesting as the conversation continues to move forward also

1:28:13.160 --> 1:28:16.320
<v Speaker 1>about gender identity and stuff like that, to think about

1:28:16.360 --> 1:28:20.000
<v Speaker 1>people like this who were part of the experimental front

1:28:20.040 --> 1:28:21.160
<v Speaker 1>lines of it, you know.

1:28:21.640 --> 1:28:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Or like if people are born intersex, it's like

1:28:24.040 --> 1:28:26.160
<v Speaker 2>leave them alone. Why don't you just leave them alone

1:28:27.160 --> 1:28:29.720
<v Speaker 2>until they can decide what to do? You know, it's

1:28:29.760 --> 1:28:31.680
<v Speaker 2>like to fit into these norms that we have in

1:28:31.760 --> 1:28:33.679
<v Speaker 2>society that are just lame as hell.

1:28:34.360 --> 1:28:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Also, we just want to point out we were

1:28:38.680 --> 1:28:41.160
<v Speaker 1>thrilled and honored to get Mary Stewart Masterson to come

1:28:41.160 --> 1:28:44.639
<v Speaker 1>on our podcast, but we did reach out to Riley McClendon,

1:28:44.680 --> 1:28:49.479
<v Speaker 1>the actor, and while initially interested, he did take some

1:28:49.640 --> 1:28:53.960
<v Speaker 1>time to listen to our podcast. And because he is

1:28:54.000 --> 1:28:55.800
<v Speaker 1>now a man of God, he works for a church,

1:28:55.840 --> 1:28:59.400
<v Speaker 1>he decided against it. And I think that's probably we're

1:28:59.439 --> 1:29:02.439
<v Speaker 1>not we're not church listening material.

1:29:02.320 --> 1:29:02.479
<v Speaker 4>You know.

1:29:02.680 --> 1:29:03.160
<v Speaker 1>But he did.

1:29:03.360 --> 1:29:05.000
<v Speaker 2>I think he said it was like funny in a

1:29:05.040 --> 1:29:06.479
<v Speaker 2>good time, but not for him.

1:29:06.680 --> 1:29:08.800
<v Speaker 1>I don't think it was a full on knock of us.

1:29:08.960 --> 1:29:13.000
<v Speaker 1>I think it's if your parishioners or your fellow churchgoers

1:29:13.040 --> 1:29:16.080
<v Speaker 1>hear you hear us, they're like, what exactly are you

1:29:16.080 --> 1:29:19.360
<v Speaker 1>getting involved in? If he is listening, we want him

1:29:19.400 --> 1:29:21.400
<v Speaker 1>to know that he had one of the top one

1:29:21.400 --> 1:29:24.160
<v Speaker 1>of the top ten child performances of SPU history in

1:29:24.160 --> 1:29:25.040
<v Speaker 1>my opinion.

1:29:24.960 --> 1:29:26.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I am still curious to know how he feels

1:29:26.960 --> 1:29:27.599
<v Speaker 2>about everything.

1:29:27.600 --> 1:29:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Maybe you could just fill out a questionnaire.

1:29:29.280 --> 1:29:31.599
<v Speaker 2>For us really quietly or something.

1:29:31.840 --> 1:29:33.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I need to add something.

1:29:33.200 --> 1:29:35.519
<v Speaker 5>I learned that Lisa thought that that wig was good

1:29:35.560 --> 1:29:38.160
<v Speaker 5>because I thought that was the worst wig SU has

1:29:38.240 --> 1:29:39.439
<v Speaker 5>maybe ever had.

1:29:39.439 --> 1:29:41.640
<v Speaker 1>Lindsay's wig. Yeah, Lisa, I had to go with Pan

1:29:41.800 --> 1:29:43.960
<v Speaker 1>on this one. Lindsay's wig was not a good wig.

1:29:44.600 --> 1:29:47.160
<v Speaker 2>No, And I didn't mention, but Mary Stuart Masterson in

1:29:47.160 --> 1:29:50.840
<v Speaker 2>this episode had like red string delicate necklaces with a

1:29:50.880 --> 1:29:55.080
<v Speaker 2>little shoe, a horseshoe luck charm, And I really did

1:29:55.120 --> 1:29:57.360
<v Speaker 2>appreciate her delicate jewelry.

1:29:57.400 --> 1:30:01.080
<v Speaker 1>It is you have a real eye for us viewedjewelry. Well.

1:30:01.120 --> 1:30:04.080
<v Speaker 2>I love delicate necklaces and I love jewelry that I

1:30:04.160 --> 1:30:07.200
<v Speaker 2>can see Jennifer Aniston wearing, like that's how I pick

1:30:07.200 --> 1:30:10.200
<v Speaker 2>all my jewelry. If she would wear it, and she

1:30:10.200 --> 1:30:10.840
<v Speaker 2>would wear that.

1:30:10.840 --> 1:30:15.040
<v Speaker 1>Necklace, is this delicate gold that glints against tan skin

1:30:15.160 --> 1:30:17.280
<v Speaker 1>and a bottle of vitamin water, I'll take it.

1:30:17.800 --> 1:30:20.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean, is there anyone more iconic? Jenn Aniston? Get

1:30:20.800 --> 1:30:23.320
<v Speaker 2>on SVU, you dumb bitch, We need you on.

1:30:23.520 --> 1:30:26.639
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, And she'd be good as like a villain,

1:30:26.760 --> 1:30:29.920
<v Speaker 1>baby villain. I want her as a villain character. I

1:30:29.960 --> 1:30:31.800
<v Speaker 1>don't know why, Like I could see her doing it

1:30:31.840 --> 1:30:33.920
<v Speaker 1>a little bit old when she's a little bit even older,

1:30:34.280 --> 1:30:37.080
<v Speaker 1>and she's one of those people that's like I paid

1:30:37.120 --> 1:30:39.280
<v Speaker 1>for my grandson to do this so that nobody finds

1:30:39.320 --> 1:30:42.000
<v Speaker 1>out about his indiscretions. Like we always have those characters

1:30:42.080 --> 1:30:45.559
<v Speaker 1>the Angela Landsberries and like those older ladies that are

1:30:45.600 --> 1:30:48.360
<v Speaker 1>like I threw money at the problem, leave me alone

1:30:48.400 --> 1:30:51.000
<v Speaker 1>and hypd I pay your salary. And that's like I

1:30:51.000 --> 1:30:52.760
<v Speaker 1>would love to see Jen Aniston try to take on

1:30:52.840 --> 1:30:53.280
<v Speaker 1>one of those.

1:30:53.400 --> 1:30:55.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think we need a messager sources and be

1:30:55.840 --> 1:30:56.760
<v Speaker 2>like get the war.

1:30:56.960 --> 1:31:00.200
<v Speaker 1>I could see her as a like a madam.

1:31:01.000 --> 1:31:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes, all right, but let's go anything. Yeah, don't join

1:31:05.840 --> 1:31:08.000
<v Speaker 2>a gang if you can avoid it.

1:31:08.800 --> 1:31:13.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure so many on the precipice of joining a gang.

1:31:13.360 --> 1:31:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Members are listening to our pond.

1:31:15.520 --> 1:31:18.200
<v Speaker 2>And if you are going to join a gang, don't

1:31:18.240 --> 1:31:21.040
<v Speaker 2>advertise it all over you because you'll get more caught

1:31:21.080 --> 1:31:23.000
<v Speaker 2>by the cops. And if you're going to come at

1:31:23.000 --> 1:31:24.559
<v Speaker 2>a crime, don't keep the weapon on you.

1:31:24.920 --> 1:31:27.599
<v Speaker 1>But also it is funny too when you get arrested

1:31:27.640 --> 1:31:31.120
<v Speaker 1>for a Rico crime, Go who's Rico? That is funny. Okay,

1:31:31.320 --> 1:31:33.360
<v Speaker 1>So now it is time for what would sister peg do?

1:31:34.400 --> 1:31:37.200
<v Speaker 1>You probably know that this is our segment where we

1:31:38.360 --> 1:31:41.639
<v Speaker 1>just direct you towards a resource, a book, an article,

1:31:42.080 --> 1:31:46.439
<v Speaker 1>a charitable organization research about something that we have touched

1:31:46.479 --> 1:31:49.040
<v Speaker 1>on in today's episode. I thought that it would be

1:31:49.160 --> 1:31:51.559
<v Speaker 1>interesting just to direct you guys all to the book

1:31:51.680 --> 1:31:55.080
<v Speaker 1>that John Colopinto that I referenced in the in the

1:31:55.120 --> 1:31:58.720
<v Speaker 1>true crime portion of the episode that John Colapinto wrote

1:31:58.720 --> 1:32:01.840
<v Speaker 1>about David Reimer. It's called as Nature made him the

1:32:01.880 --> 1:32:03.600
<v Speaker 1>boy who was raised as a girl, and we have

1:32:03.680 --> 1:32:05.840
<v Speaker 1>the link in our notes, but you can get that

1:32:05.920 --> 1:32:08.680
<v Speaker 1>on Amazon and on all different places. I think if

1:32:08.680 --> 1:32:10.679
<v Speaker 1>you're just interested in learning a little bit more about

1:32:10.720 --> 1:32:13.719
<v Speaker 1>this story, that is a great place to start because

1:32:13.800 --> 1:32:16.080
<v Speaker 1>he is the guy John colpincho is the guy who

1:32:16.120 --> 1:32:18.160
<v Speaker 1>got the story out there and sort of worked with

1:32:18.240 --> 1:32:22.080
<v Speaker 1>David closely on telling his story. And join us.

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<v Speaker 2>Next week we will be covering Hunting Ground season thirteen,

1:32:26.360 --> 1:32:31.599
<v Speaker 2>episode fifteen. Get ready for some scary shit. Truly one

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<v Speaker 2>of the scariest, one of the scariest. And as always,

1:32:35.920 --> 1:32:39.960
<v Speaker 2>they're on Hulu Peacock. Someone tagged us on a story

1:32:40.000 --> 1:32:44.320
<v Speaker 2>they went to the library and checked out SVU DVDs.

1:32:44.600 --> 1:32:48.880
<v Speaker 2>So that's another way to watch the show is support

1:32:48.920 --> 1:32:49.960
<v Speaker 2>your local library.

1:32:50.760 --> 1:33:01.759
<v Speaker 1>Bye bye bye us up as an exactly right production.

1:33:02.000 --> 1:33:03.880
<v Speaker 1>If you have compliments you'd like to give us or

1:33:03.920 --> 1:33:06.080
<v Speaker 1>episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email

1:33:06.120 --> 1:33:08.559
<v Speaker 1>at That's Messed Up pod at gmail dot com.

1:33:08.600 --> 1:33:11.240
<v Speaker 2>Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod

1:33:11.360 --> 1:33:13.960
<v Speaker 2>and on Twitter at messed Up Pod, and follow us

1:33:13.960 --> 1:33:16.920
<v Speaker 2>personally at Karaklank and at Glittercheese.

1:33:17.080 --> 1:33:19.800
<v Speaker 1>As always, please see our show notes for sources and

1:33:19.840 --> 1:33:20.560
<v Speaker 1>more information.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you so much to SBU superfan and our incredible producer,

1:33:25.800 --> 1:33:27.360
<v Speaker 2>Hannah Kyle Kraton.

1:33:27.200 --> 1:33:30.760
<v Speaker 1>And to our sound engineer and personal hero Anali Snilson.

1:33:30.439 --> 1:33:33.559
<v Speaker 2>And to Henry Koperski for our theme song, to Carly

1:33:33.680 --> 1:33:35.240
<v Speaker 2>Jean Andrews for our artwork.

1:33:35.520 --> 1:33:39.799
<v Speaker 1>Thanks to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer,

1:33:39.800 --> 1:33:41.559
<v Speaker 1>and everybody at Exactly Right Media.

1:33:41.640 --> 1:33:45.679
<v Speaker 2>Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher,

1:33:45.840 --> 1:33:49.040
<v Speaker 2>or wherever you get your podcasts. If you're an advertiser

1:33:49.120 --> 1:33:52.639
<v Speaker 2>interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll dot.

1:33:52.439 --> 1:33:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Com slash ads. Done. Done