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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff, give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

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Speaker 1: Everything.

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Speaker 3: Good morning, everybody, Happy Monday.

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Speaker 2: We have a very solemn and a somber show today

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Speaker 2: to cover these what's going on in Israel and Palestine, Gaza.

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Speaker 3: What do we have today?

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Speaker 1: Indeed we do. We're looking to cover this from all

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Speaker 1: angles this morning. You know, I really encourage you if

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Speaker 1: you can to watch the show or listen to this

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Speaker 1: show as a whole. We're going to bring you through

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Speaker 1: the very latest as best as we know, of what

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Speaker 1: is going on on the ground right now after those

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Speaker 1: horrific Hamas attacks on Israeli citizens. We're also going to

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Speaker 1: bring you into what led up to this moment, some

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Speaker 1: of the history that brought us here, so that everybody

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Speaker 1: has a bit of a fuller picture, fuller context and

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Speaker 1: we're going to bring in some experts to understand the

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Speaker 1: Israeli domestic political situation how that might impact their reaction

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Speaker 1: moving forward, and also expert to doctor Parci, who we've

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Speaker 1: had on the show many times before, to help understand

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Speaker 1: the geopolitics of this situation and what it might mean

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Speaker 1: for the broader world, which is very significant.

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Speaker 3: As well of course.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, as I said, we would really encourage people

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Speaker 2: to either listen to this in full. Obviously we put

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Speaker 2: it out full to be able to watch for our

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Speaker 2: premium subscribers both on Spotify and on YouTube, but you

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Speaker 2: can also listen to it for free as a podcast

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Speaker 2: as well well. Of course, we'll still post the clips

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Speaker 2: in order to keep everybody updated, you know, as soon

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Speaker 2: as possible, but if you are able to, I genuinely

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Speaker 2: would recommend listening to it in full. We're going to

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Speaker 2: start with the very very latest as of this morning,

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Speaker 2: around seven thirty Eastern time, just so everybody understands in

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Speaker 2: case thing happens after this, what do we have right now?

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Speaker 1: That's right, so as of this morning, we have a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a glimpse at what the Israeli reaction

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Speaker 1: might be as that's starting to take shape, both the

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Speaker 1: size scope and shall I say, brutality of it. We

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Speaker 1: have a spokesperson from the IDF announcing one hundred thousand

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Speaker 1: Israeli troops have been called up.

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Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to a little bit of that.

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Speaker 5: That's the situation now we have mobilized. We have called

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Speaker 5: up approximately one hundred thousand Israeli troops. They are now

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Speaker 5: organizing and preparing to launch and attack at Hamas in Gaza,

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Speaker 5: and as we speak, we are also striking their military

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Speaker 5: targets inside the Gaza Strip and so far we have

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Speaker 5: been able to kill more than four hundred terrorists.

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Speaker 4: So we know as of this morning.

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Speaker 1: Some of the targets that have been hit within Gaza

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Speaker 1: include a mosque that was in a densely populated part

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Speaker 1: of the Gaza Strip. Of course, Gaza is some of

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Speaker 1: the most densely populated places, one of the most densely

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Speaker 1: populated places on Earth. There was also a strike of

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Speaker 1: a marketplace, a number of apartment buildings and other targets

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Speaker 1: have also been leveled.

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Speaker 4: Based on what we know this morning.

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Speaker 1: In addition put this up on the screen, they have

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Speaker 1: announced is Israel's Defence minister announced that Gaza is going

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Speaker 1: to be put.

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Speaker 4: Under a complete siege.

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Speaker 6: Now.

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Speaker 1: Gaza has already been under a brutal blockade now for

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Speaker 1: sixteen years, which has caused massive problems in terms of

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Speaker 1: access to food, water, basic supplies, poverty rate, unemployment rate, etc. This, though,

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Speaker 1: goes much further, the Defence Minister saying specifically no electricity,

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Speaker 1: no food, no water, and no fuel as Israel begins

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Speaker 1: their response to those horrific attacks on Yes.

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Speaker 3: That's right, I'll read the full quote here.

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Speaker 2: He says a quote that he's got no electricity, no food,

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Speaker 2: no fuel quote. We are fighting human animals and we

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Speaker 2: will act accordingly. So all of this is almost forty

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Speaker 2: eight hours or so in response to the attacks, and

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Speaker 2: what we thought we would do is for anybody who

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Speaker 2: wants like a fullsome picture of it, is just put

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Speaker 2: together some of the most shocking moments. We go ahead

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Speaker 2: and start playing them. Everything began to mount over on

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Speaker 2: Friday and on Saturday during the holidays actually inside of Israel,

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Speaker 2: and what people can see here are thousands of rockets

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Speaker 2: that were initially launched from Gaza towards Israel. That was

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Speaker 2: kind of the prelude to what Crystal eventually turned into

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Speaker 2: one of the most shocking attacks that we have seen

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Speaker 2: in modern history. Because of the size and the scope

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Speaker 2: of Israel's defense that has justified so much of the

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Speaker 2: security state there, Like, for example, those who are watching

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Speaker 2: right now, you can see guys literally in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the street, tanks and things getting swarmed. And then

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Speaker 2: there's also been a lot of attention around the incomplete

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Speaker 2: inability for Israel to thwart attacks Crystal air and land

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Speaker 2: and sea, with multiple cities that were completely overrun, infiltrated,

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Speaker 2: and hundreds and hundreds of civilians who were shock dead

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Speaker 2: or in some cases we're also kidnapped.

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Speaker 3: We'll bring you the latest on that.

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Speaker 2: This is one of the craziest ones to me, Crystal

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Speaker 2: is them actually demolishing the barrier, the perimeter wall, which

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Speaker 2: was long vaunted as one of the most important things

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Speaker 2: in all of Israel, you know, the high tech perimeter

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Speaker 2: border wall with all these elect all these sensors here

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Speaker 2: we have like burned out cars and other areas from

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Speaker 2: the music festival, so so that you know, the moments

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Speaker 2: and all this were absolutely shocking and immediately invited some

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Speaker 2: Israeli responses.

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Speaker 3: People can see on the screen in front yeah, and actually.

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Speaker 1: What we're watching right there is the Israel Israel's retaliation

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Speaker 1: in Gaza City, leveling that apartment building there. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: as you said, Soger, and this was timed to roughly

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Speaker 1: correspond with the fifty year anniversary of the Yan Kapor War,

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Speaker 1: which was another shocking surprise attack where Israel initially struggled

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Speaker 1: to repel a coalition of Arab states. That war looms

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Speaker 1: very large in terms of Israeli national consciousness and has

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Speaker 1: been used to help justify this build up of the

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Speaker 1: mess security state and the surveillance state. And you know,

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Speaker 1: part of what was so shocking here is there I

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Speaker 1: think had developed a sense of comfort and security and

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Speaker 1: in a sense complacency while the Israeli domestic population was

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Speaker 1: protesting and fighting over Netnyahuo's you know, attacks on the

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Speaker 1: independent judiciary there. So that's part of the backdrop that

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Speaker 1: we'll get into as well. The other piece of this attack,

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Speaker 1: which did directly target Israeli civilians, was a significant program

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Speaker 1: of hostage taking. So we don't know the exact numbers yet,

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Speaker 1: Israel doesn't know the exact numbers yet, but you're viewing

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Speaker 1: some of the videos of hostages being taken by Hamas militants.

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Speaker 1: The latest numbers I saw are somewhere around one hundred

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Speaker 1: and fifty known hostages. You can see, you know, women,

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Speaker 1: elderly children, all targeted. There are also reports that Americans

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Speaker 1: may be among those hostages. We can actually put that

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Speaker 1: up on the screen. Still a question still unconfirmed whether

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Speaker 1: or not Americans are among the hostages taken here.

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Speaker 4: This is a.

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Speaker 1: Very emotional issue, not only for Israel obviously also for

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Speaker 1: the US, and really complicates what the Israeli response can

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Speaker 1: be because if you have potentially hundreds of Israeli hostages

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Speaker 1: being held by Hamas in Gaza, makes it much more

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Speaker 1: difficult to respond because you have an Israeli domestic population

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Speaker 1: which would be very concerned about.

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Speaker 4: The well being and safety of these.

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Speaker 1: Hostages, understandably, and of course their families are sick with

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Speaker 1: worry about what is going to happen to them and

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Speaker 1: their fate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly right, And we have an exact we don't

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Speaker 2: have an exact figure here on the death toll so far,

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Speaker 2: but it's already horrific in terms of the human costs.

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Speaker 3: So let's put this up there on the screen.

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Speaker 2: These were updated as of this morning, we know about

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Speaker 2: seven hundred Israelis have been killed, that is, including civilian

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Speaker 2: and IDF members, twenty three hundred have been injured. On

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Speaker 2: the Gaza side, we have four hundred and ninety three

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Speaker 2: killed so far, two thy seven hundred and fifty one

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Speaker 2: who have been injured. We don't have a breakdown within

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Speaker 2: either of those figures of both IDF and civilian, and

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Speaker 2: same thing on Hamas militant or whatever, HAMAS member and

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Speaker 2: actual citizens of Gaza. But I think that what really

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Speaker 2: we can try and underscore is the shocking nature of

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Speaker 2: the attack, because, as you said, the modern foundation of

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Speaker 2: the Israeli state is that we will keep these safe.

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Speaker 2: This is already the single largest loss of life in

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Speaker 2: a single day in Israeli history. So this will loom

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Speaker 2: large now for a long time, but well will probably

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Speaker 2: loom even larger then. Not only just the horrific figures,

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Speaker 2: was the ability to have an incursion directly into major

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Speaker 2: Israeli cities. We have a map that we can go

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Speaker 2: and put there up on the screen just so people

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Speaker 2: can get a little bit of an idea. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the perimeter around Gaza was effectively useless. Here you can

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Speaker 2: see how Hamas was a to go into multiple major

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Speaker 2: populated areas all in southern Israel that all surround the

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Speaker 2: Gaza Strip, and not just ones directly across the perimeter,

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Speaker 2: but also I mean, you know, several miles into Israeli

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Speaker 2: territory and they were able to terrorize, to shoot, to

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Speaker 2: kidnap many people who were inside of that.

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Speaker 3: They also their rocket ability.

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Speaker 2: Is one which has been posing some major tests for

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Speaker 2: the Iron Dome. If we want to go and put

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Speaker 2: the next one that is up there, you can see

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Speaker 2: that rockets were launched from Gaza all the way up

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Speaker 2: to Tel Aviv to the capital. One of the videos

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Speaker 2: that we showed was Ben Gurion National International Airport, which

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Speaker 2: is major airport inside of Israel, which had to shut

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Speaker 2: down and passengers actually were on the tarmac rocket strikes

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Speaker 2: all the way up and down the capital. Major cities

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Speaker 2: like Ashtad we also had. We also had attacks like

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Speaker 2: towards Jerusalem where Iron Dome was activated. So thousands and

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Speaker 2: thousands of rockets that had been launched there. There's another

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Speaker 2: map that we can show up there. This is from

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Speaker 2: the retaliation so far by Israel, majorly in Gaza City.

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Speaker 2: As Crystal said, though it is difficult, I think for

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Speaker 2: people who are not familiar with this to understand Gaza's

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Speaker 2: dense population. Gaza is the third most densely populated place

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Speaker 2: on Earth. There are two point two million people who

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Speaker 2: live in this tiny strip and honestly, if you haven't

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Speaker 2: seen it with your own eyes, it is shocking.

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Speaker 3: And I never got to go inside Gaza.

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Speaker 2: I can only see like quote unquote into Gaza, but

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is like Tokyo level of population density,

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Speaker 2: which is it comes through a bit in the videos

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Speaker 2: and all of that, but that's why you know, every

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Speaker 2: basically anytime ammunition strikes within there, there's just going to

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Speaker 2: be like one hundred civilians everywhere, which Hamasius is to

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Speaker 2: its effect, and also of course you know is going

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Speaker 2: to invite criticism on the Israeli response.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's a nightmare situation.

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Speaker 1: Well, when you put I mean again this Gaza's been

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Speaker 1: under stage for sixteen years and it has completely emiserated

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Speaker 1: the popular. Their unemployment rate is fifty percent. They used

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Speaker 1: to have a vibrant manufacturing sector, including textiles, that has

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Speaker 1: completely fallen apart. Even their ability to fish has been

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Speaker 1: significantly curtailed because there's also a naval blockade. Egypt, by

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Speaker 1: the way, shares a border with Gaza. They also participate

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Speaker 1: in this blockade. Their living conditions have continued to deteriorate.

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Speaker 1: There's massive issues in terms of their infrastructure, their ability

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Speaker 1: to have clean water. They have one power plant within

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Speaker 1: the territory of Gaza that's able to provide a few

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Speaker 1: hours of electricity a day. So when Israel is cutting

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Speaker 1: off now going even further than their typical blockade, cutting off.

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Speaker 4: Electricity, water, food, fuel.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you can't describe this as anything other than

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Speaker 1: a complete siege and also collective punishment. So that is

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Speaker 1: the state of affairs as far as we know in

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Speaker 1: terms of the Israeli response. You know, there's also a

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Speaker 1: lot of questions. We're going to get into this with

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Speaker 1: doctor Parsi about whether Iran was involved. There's some reporting

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Speaker 1: suggesting that they were. Hamasa's actually saying they were a fall.

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Speaker 3: You went on the record, They're like, yeah, the Iranians

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Speaker 3: helped us.

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Speaker 4: Iran is saying no, we didn't.

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Speaker 1: Interestingly, the US intelligence community is saying they don't have

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Speaker 1: any evidence that Iran was involved. But as we think

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Speaker 1: of the broader geopolitical implications here. Obviously, Iran and Israel

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Speaker 1: no great friends. Israel long been very hawkish towards Iran,

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Speaker 1: and you already have voices here in the US on

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Speaker 1: both the Democratic and the Republican side, effectively calling for

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Speaker 1: war with Iran if these reports are true that they

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Speaker 1: were involved in helping to plan this. But you know, Soccer,

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Speaker 1: you mentioned this, and I don't think that it can

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Speaker 1: possibly be overstated the failure on all levels here in

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Speaker 1: terms of anticipating what was a very sophisticated attack, which

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Speaker 1: for sure took months, if not years to plan.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, multi year, I think.

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Speaker 1: So, no intelligence indicating the size and scope of this attack.

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Speaker 1: In fact, all of the commentary from both US and

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Speaker 1: Israeli officials recently was we don't think that Hamas wants

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Speaker 1: a full scale war. They were sort of floating these

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Speaker 1: additional will give you some additional worker permits so that

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Speaker 1: more of your citizens can come over and work in Israel.

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Speaker 1: I mean, their movement is so confined that even just

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Speaker 1: to get a pass to work in Israel is you know,

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Speaker 1: a herculean task, let alone to seek medical care, let

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Speaker 1: alone to travel anywhere, including the West Bank. So there

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Speaker 1: was a sense of real complacency, and you had all

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Speaker 1: of this deal making going on with the Abraham Accords

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Speaker 1: under Trump and with this new attempt to normalize relations

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Speaker 1: between Saudi Arabia and Israel that were going on. That's

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Speaker 1: another key piece of this, because you know, the Palestinians

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Speaker 1: were not happy with this direction and all of that

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Speaker 1: deal making, which imagine this quote unquote New Middle East

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Speaker 1: just sort of ignored the fact that you continue to

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Speaker 1: have this brutal apartheid situation. Citizens under occupation in Gaza

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Speaker 1: two million under these brutal blockade conditions. They just wanted

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Speaker 1: to sort of pretend that didn't exist and invisibilize it,

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Speaker 1: and that is no longer going.

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Speaker 3: To be possible. It's completely impossible.

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Speaker 2: The living symbol of this is going to be this

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Speaker 2: music festival where you can see here people were having

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Speaker 2: a good time, but then in the background you can

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Speaker 2: see little clouds of either missiles smoke, and you know

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Speaker 2: there were also paragliders that were eventually came in. And

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Speaker 2: then this was completely invaded by these Hamas militants who

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Speaker 2: ended up kidnapping, raping, and killing many of the actual attendants,

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Speaker 2: and you could see them absolutely just fleeing for their lives.

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Speaker 2: It was just broken yesterday that two hundred and thirty

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Speaker 2: six bodies were actually found in a collective pile all together.

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Speaker 2: So this gives you reminiscent of the Paris attack at

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Speaker 2: the Bataklan by Isis. So you know, that is going

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Speaker 2: to be the most one of the most searing elements,

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Speaker 2: and it really just represents the absolute failure on the

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Speaker 2: part of the Israeli state. And we're going to get

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Speaker 2: into a lot of that later with ken Roth and

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Speaker 2: with others. But the social contract within Israel was always

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Speaker 2: like okay, you know, if you haven't been there before,

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Speaker 2: don't even go into a mall without being wanted, you know,

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Speaker 2: for a suicide vest Like every single part the security

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Speaker 2: is in it is unlike anything I have ever experienced

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Speaker 2: anywhere on the globe.

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Speaker 3: And the justification is we're going to keep you safe.

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Speaker 2: They're like, yeah, you know why we do that because

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Speaker 2: we haven't had a terrorist attack or a suicide bombing

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Speaker 2: or whatever in ten years. That is over now, and

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Speaker 2: that when you have that social fabric break. I mean,

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Speaker 2: this is a country with mandatory military service. People there

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Speaker 2: are very civically engaged, so there I think is going

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Speaker 2: to be a massive political backlash, which we're going to

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Speaker 2: talk about with Ken rob as to how the hell

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Speaker 2: something like this could happen. But an intelligence failure on

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Speaker 2: every single level, you know, from the US, from Israel,

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Speaker 2: even on Iran, you know, even if they were you know,

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Speaker 2: involved or not.

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Speaker 3: We're going to talk about that with doctor Parsi.

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Speaker 2: But you know, allegedly we spend all this money, you know,

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Speaker 2: spying on all these people. And Edward Snowden made a

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Speaker 2: great point Nets and Yahoo in the Israeli government have

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Speaker 2: pioneered the most invasive spyware like known to man. And

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Speaker 2: where what happened? You know, it's like this is being

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Speaker 2: planned basically right across your border, right one hundred feet

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Speaker 2: from your own country in what you allegedly have all

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Speaker 2: these you know, spies, and they love to brag over

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Speaker 2: there about their infiltration of Hezbollah and of Hamas, and

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Speaker 2: it's like, well, what the hell happened? Guys like you

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Speaker 2: didn't get a single and we know from the response

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Speaker 2: you didn't have an indication because if you would, there

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Speaker 2: would have been a ten x level of the amount

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Speaker 2: of defense that happened in the initial days.

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Speaker 1: That music festival that turned into absolute horror and carnage

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Speaker 1: was meant to impart celebrate quote unquote infinite freedom three

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Speaker 1: miles from the Gaza border fence. And I think it

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Speaker 1: really does show you that, you know, for a long

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Speaker 1: for a while, there was this sense of like, well,

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Speaker 1: this is going on over here, but we're basically just

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Speaker 1: going to ignore it and pretend that it doesn't exist.

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Speaker 1: And you can point to a lot of immediate term

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Speaker 1: factors with the net Nyahuu government specifically, which is the

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Speaker 1: most extreme government Israel has ever had, which includes some

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Speaker 1: figures in it who have expressed outright genocidal intent towards Palestinians,

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Speaker 1: like no two ways about it, and they were very

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Speaker 1: wrapped up in this push. Nyahoo's got to get out

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Speaker 1: of his corruption charges, so he's pushing this attack on

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Speaker 1: the independent judiciary. There was a huge nationwide protest over that,

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Speaker 1: and at the same time, part of why and this

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Speaker 1: has now been fully reported out, part of why there

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Speaker 1: was so little troop presence in this area where you

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Speaker 1: can see things like Hamas just bulldozing. There's you know,

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Speaker 1: special high tech border wall with no problem, is because

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Speaker 1: those troops had been reassigned to the West Bank effectively

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Speaker 1: to protect these extremist Jewish settlers in that region. And

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Speaker 1: so while people were being you know, civilians being murdered

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Speaker 1: and slaughtered and taken hostage, et cetera, they were on

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Speaker 1: their own because of the way that troops had been

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Speaker 1: redeployed because of nat nyahuo extreme coalition effectively. So you

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Speaker 1: can point to these very specific domestic factors, which is

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Speaker 1: something else we want to talk to ken Roth about.

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Speaker 1: But you also just have to say, listen, you can

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Speaker 1: have the biggest army, you can have the most invasive

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Speaker 1: security state, you can have your good buddies the US

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Speaker 1: and you billions of dollars every year. You can have

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Speaker 1: all of that. When you're trying to keep two million

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Speaker 1: people locked in a cage effectively in an open air

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Speaker 1: prison indefinitely, you're never going to have real security. And so,

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Speaker 1: you know, I grieve for the families who have lost

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Speaker 1: loved ones out of a failure of their government, a

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Speaker 1: failure of our government, and you know, an intentional blindness

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Speaker 1: from the politicians to just pretend like this issue no

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Speaker 1: longer exist and to completely invisibilize, yeah, Hammas are terrorists,

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Speaker 1: like there's no, there is no excuse for this kind

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Speaker 1: of carnage on civilians. But you never see this level

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Speaker 1: of concern for the palestinianszens who are seeing their dreams

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Speaker 1: and their hopes and their aspirations c quashed every day

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Speaker 1: and who are routinely killed, and you don't see the

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Speaker 1: same level of concern. I mean, that is my whole

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Speaker 1: stance in all of this is I just want to

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Speaker 1: see Israeli lives and Palestinian lives be treated with equal

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Speaker 1: care and concern. So you know, to me, that's sort

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Speaker 1: of like the bottom line picture here. But there's a

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Speaker 1: lot that involves the US as well. As I said,

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Speaker 1: out of the casualties, out of the deaths that occurred

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Speaker 1: on the Israeli side, some of those we now know

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Speaker 1: were Americans. And there's also a high probability I think

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Speaker 1: you could say at this point that there are some

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Speaker 1: American citizens who have also been taken hostage. Secretary of

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Speaker 1: State Tony Blinken spoke about this on the Sunday Shows.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a listen to what he had to say.

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Speaker 7: Several Americans maybe among the dead. We are very actively

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Speaker 7: working to verify those reports. Similarly, we've seen reports about

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Speaker 7: hostages and there again very actively trying to verify them

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Speaker 7: and nail that down.

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Speaker 8: Meaning that there could be some US citizens who have

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Speaker 8: been taken hostage as well.

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Speaker 3: Mister Secretary.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we got the report this morning, Crystal, of

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Speaker 2: the official count is that least nine Americans were killed

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Speaker 2: in Israel. Unfortunately, as you said, it's very likely that

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Speaker 2: figure could go higher, and it's very likely there are

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Speaker 2: also probably some citizens there. If anybody's ever been to Israel,

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Speaker 2: there are Americans all over the place.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of people. You also have dual citizenship.

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Speaker 2: So it is not well outside the realm of possibility

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Speaker 2: to see anything like this and the US response now

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Speaker 2: so far, at least from what we can tell, Can

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Speaker 2: we please put a ten up on the screen. In

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Speaker 2: terms of the United States military, this is pretty significant.

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Speaker 2: The US aircraft aircraft carrier, the US Gerald R Ford,

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Speaker 2: as well as all the other ships in the carrier

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Speaker 2: Strike Group twelve, which include multiple cruisers, destroyers and others,

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Speaker 2: are now showing and heading towards the Eastern Mediterranean quote

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Speaker 2: in a show of support for Israel and to assist

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Speaker 2: with the possible evacuation of US citizens should the needs

403
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Speaker 2: of the country arises, multiple other governments also mobilizing military

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Speaker 2: resources towards the area in case they need to evacuate

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Speaker 2: their citizens. Poland, I believe, Romania, other places where large

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Speaker 2: they have a large dual citizen or population that lives there.

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Speaker 3: On top of that crystal.

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Speaker 2: In terms of the weapons requests, we haven't gotten specifics

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Speaker 2: yet from Tel Aviv, but Washington has already begun discussions

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Speaker 2: around shipping multiple more munitions to Israel, either restocking iron

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Speaker 2: dome ammunition. I expect a big interesting discussion to probably occur.

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Speaker 2: We had a massive stockpile of AMMO actually in Israel,

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Speaker 2: which was meant to either be released to the Israelis

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Speaker 2: should the conflict arise, or should us need access to

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Speaker 2: that AMMO which is forward deployed in the Middle East. Well,

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Speaker 2: we drew down a huge chunk of that and sent

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Speaker 2: it to Ukraine. And I got to say this on

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Speaker 2: the Israeli side, you know, I hate to inject the

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Speaker 2: Ukraine situation into this, but since we're now at least

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Speaker 2: talking about response and all, this, one of the reasons

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Speaker 2: that Israel refused to ship a lot of munitions in

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Speaker 2: arms to Ukraine is they were like, well, we might

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Speaker 2: need it to defend ourselves. I think that they're probably

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Speaker 2: very vindicated and validated in that decision, and it just

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Speaker 2: goes to show you, in terms of trying to prioritize

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Speaker 2: your own defense, you never know whenever you're going to

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Speaker 2: have to try and have access to those. So just

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Speaker 2: a little bit of an underscore for that. But that's

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Speaker 2: the major In terms of the US response so far,

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Speaker 2: that's basically been it.

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Speaker 3: Lots of calls from the U S Secretary of State.

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Speaker 2: He's had a call with Turkey, he had a call

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Speaker 2: with I believe with some of the other the Egyptians.

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Speaker 2: Obviously two calls now so far between President Biden and

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister Netanyahu. But on the diplomatic side, it seems

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Speaker 2: to be everybody's just sitting back and waiting to see

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Speaker 2: what the hell happens, especially with Gaza and with the

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Speaker 2: hostage situation. So as of right now, there's been no

439
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 2: yet invasion of Gaza. Round invasion is what I'm talking about.

440
00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 2: There's been no US troops or any of that been

441
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,760
Speaker 2: mobilized or sent as that we know. The only military

442
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 2: response on our so far is a symbolic show of

443
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 2: force to the Eastern med with the carrier Strike Group twelve.

444
00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 1: But you have US politicians who are calling for much

445
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 1: much more. Let's go ahead and put a nine up

446
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 1: on the screen. This is this dude, Dean Phillips, who

447
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 1: we talked about before. He's quote unquote moderate like problem solver,

448
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 1: caucus type Democrat who he's the one you may recall

449
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:23,359
Speaker 1: who has been saying Joe Biden should receive a primary challenge.

450
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: He's floated, maybe he'll do it. So that's the student.

451
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: I think he had to give up, like his committee

452
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 1: assignments or something. He had some punishment, Oh, out of

453
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 1: democratic leadership because daring to challenge your life. But now

454
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 1: here he is calling for war with Iran. He says,

455
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: in response to a Wall Street Journal report that Iron

456
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: helped to plot the attack on Israel over several weeks,

457
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 1: which is what Hamas is saying. Iron is denying, and

458
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: actually US intelligence, as I mentioned before, says they have

459
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 1: no evidence thus far, so we'll wait to see how

460
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: all that shakes out. He says, If this reporting that

461
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 1: Iran helped plan, support, and initiate the attack on Israel

462
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 1: is confirmed, principled nations of the world must unite and

463
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,119
Speaker 1: neutralize the most repugnant, repressive, destabilizing regime in the world.

464
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 1: Evil cannot be appeased any longer. So it sounds very

465
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: much like he's calling for a war with Iran right now.

466
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 1: Senator Lindsay Graham will surprise no one who knows his

467
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 1: history of wanting a war with Iran for quite some

468
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: time now also jumping on that train and pushing in

469
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:20,880
Speaker 1: that direction.

470
00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 4: Beating the war drums.

471
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: There is going to be a lot of pressure coming

472
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 1: from both parties in that direction, and we'll wait and

473
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: see what Israel's response is, which we really are only

474
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,200
Speaker 1: now just getting the contours of Sager talk a little

475
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 1: bit about what we were discussing earlier, how one of

476
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 1: the great Israeli fears and part of what has led

477
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,399
Speaker 1: to them not going forward with a ground invasion of

478
00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: Gaza yet is because they're concerned about the possibility.

479
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 4: Of a war on two front.

480
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 3: Yes, that's right.

481
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 2: So the two front war is probably the single biggest

482
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,920
Speaker 2: nightmare for Israeli war planners and for what a broader.

483
00:24:57,440 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 3: Major escalation would look like.

484
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:01,240
Speaker 2: So we already know right now there have been some

485
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 2: rockets that were fired by Hesbola from Lebanon into Israel

486
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 2: after the Hamas attack that happened on Israel, so that

487
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 2: immediately ignited fears of well, if we invade Gaza, we

488
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,680
Speaker 2: could then see another front open on our border with Lebanon.

489
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: They have fought wars with both at the same time.

490
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 2: They have fought wars with both, but the idea of

491
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 2: having to fight a full scale invasion at the same

492
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 2: time is the absolute nightmare because that would obviously would

493
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 2: divide the number of reservists. It would also deplete the

494
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 2: iron doome weapons, stock man munitions, and then in general

495
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 2: in terms of civilians getting crought in the crossfire. We

496
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 2: have seen nightmares now in Israel, in Lebanon in the past,

497
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 2: and in Gaza, so it would could embroil Lebanon. Hesbola,

498
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,760
Speaker 2: of course, has got deep allies with the Iranian government.

499
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 2: I haven't even mentioned Syria, which also has a significant

500
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 2: Hezbola situation. Who the hell knows whatever territory you know

501
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: is there on the ground with the Golan Heights, so

502
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 2: they could even have in some cases two fronts, but

503
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 2: with multiple other tertiary ones that could open up against them.

504
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 2: It would also open the question of Saudi Arabian involvement.

505
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: Amarati Katari, who all maintain relations with the Hamas government

506
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 2: but also have been previously trying to go with Israel.

507
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 2: Part of the analysis I saw actually for more hawkish people.

508
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,520
Speaker 2: As a guy Seth Frantzman, I've followed him for a

509
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 2: long time. He used to work over at the Jerusalem

510
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 2: Post and others. He made a very interesting comment that

511
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,159
Speaker 2: other prime ministers would have invaded Gaza. Now at this

512
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 2: point they actually believe that Netanyahu is being much more

513
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 2: cautious and has displayed some of this in the past.

514
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:35,760
Speaker 2: It doesn't drive with his rhetoric, I know, but I'm

515
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,159
Speaker 2: talking about at critical junctures in Israeli history. There was

516
00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 2: one scenario several years ago where Natanya who traded like

517
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 2: a thousand Hammas prisoners in exchange for a single Israeli

518
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 2: soldier who was taken captive, which is what reminded me

519
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 2: of this hostage situation.

520
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 3: There was a significant domestic.

521
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 2: Support for that decision because they're like, we're sick of

522
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 2: the death, we're sick of the carnage. We just want

523
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: to live in some sort of peace. Now, that was

524
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: a long time ago, but Netaniahuo was the Prime Minister

525
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 2: who is responsible for that decision. In terms of what

526
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 2: we have right now now the siege, you know, escalating

527
00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,679
Speaker 2: it to not providing electricity, food and water, that's certainly something,

528
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 2: but that's not a full scale ground invasion of Gaza, right,

529
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:19,760
Speaker 2: That would lead to hundreds of deaths absolutely on both

530
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 2: if not thousands, on both sides of the conflict. That

531
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 2: has not happened, possibly because of the hostage situation, but

532
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 2: also troop movements inside of Israel indicate they are sending

533
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: almost as much armor to the Lebanese border as they

534
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,880
Speaker 2: are towards Gaza. And so the idea of the two

535
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,200
Speaker 2: front escalation or any of that happening, well, the only

536
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 2: benefit I think for the entire situation is it could

537
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 2: give some sort of diplomacy a chance, because Israel so

538
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 2: desperately wants to avoid that to have to fight that

539
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 2: two front war, which I think I don't think there's

540
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,840
Speaker 2: any question that it would spiral into something. I'm not

541
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 2: going to say it would draw us, you know fully

542
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 2: into World War three, but yeah, already we've got calls

543
00:27:58,840 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: to go to.

544
00:27:59,200 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 3: War with the run.

545
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 2: We have a two front war open up between Israel

546
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 2: and Hezbolah and full scale bombings and all that going

547
00:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 2: on with Lebanon. And you know, Hezbolah is not Hamas.

548
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:12,800
Speaker 2: They have far more advanced missile and rocket technology which

549
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 2: the Iranians have provided them. They could inflict a hell

550
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: of a lot more damage onto Israel than Hamas has

551
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 2: ever done. And so that is the other reason why

552
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 2: they have such a nightmare scenario really on their hands. Again,

553
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 2: we don't know what is going to happen. This is

554
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 2: the situation right now is still very precarious. But as

555
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 2: long as there's no ground invasion of Gaza, the idea

556
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,640
Speaker 2: of a two front war opening up, you know, remains

557
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:35,959
Speaker 2: at least remains lower.

558
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 3: We also could see it's possible.

559
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: I would it wouldn't be crazy, I think, for Israel

560
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 2: to try and begin talks with Hezbolah or some sort

561
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: of back channel with Iran or with any other places

562
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: that have relations with them, where they might try and

563
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 2: broke or some agreement about, hey, we won't do anything

564
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 2: here as long as we're doing everything here. But obviously

565
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 2: they would have to pay a price in terms of that,

566
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 2: and I don't know what any of that.

567
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 6: Would look like.

568
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, Egypt is really trying to reassert their sort of

569
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:05,640
Speaker 1: traditional role as diplomatic go betweens between the Palestinians and

570
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 1: Hamas in particular and Israel as other groups. Through the

571
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: Abraham Accord and through you know, what the Biden administration

572
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,120
Speaker 1: is doing as well, like the UAE have gained more

573
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: prominence in terms of diplomatic ties with Israel. So there's

574
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: just a lot of unanswered questions this morning. I also

575
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: want to say, with regard to the videos that we're playing,

576
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: just as a heads up, we're doing the best we

577
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: can to vet these videos, and actually we're leaning more

578
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,880
Speaker 1: on quote unquote traditional news sources than perhaps we would

579
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: because there have been so many fake, wrong, inaccurate old

580
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: videos information that's floating around. So, like I said, we're

581
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: doing the best we can to sort through what is

582
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 1: happening right now and bring you some visual elements so

583
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: you can get a sense of what is happening on

584
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: the ground. But I just want to throw in there

585
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: that note of caution because it's very difficult, especially now,

586
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 1: to sort through what is what is fact and fiction,

587
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: What is a real new video of something that happened

588
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,920
Speaker 1: on the ground, what is old. I even saw videos

589
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: that were passing around that we're from video games. I know,

590
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: so you know, it's difficult to parse through all of this.

591
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: I just want to put that out there. And also,

592
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: obviously it's difficult to watch all of this unfold, both

593
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: on the Israeli side and now with the retaliations, the

594
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:21,160
Speaker 1: brutal retaliations on Gaza.

595
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's move on history.

596
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 2: I thought it would be useful because I feel like

597
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: every time these breakout, we appear to try and talk

598
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 2: about it in a vacuum, and you reference some of that.

599
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 2: But the truth is, even in the forty something minutes

600
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,840
Speaker 2: that we've already been speaking, we've only covered what do

601
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: you think, maybe fifteen years of history. So I was thinking, yeah,

602
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:43,760
Speaker 2: we look and we're going to be.

603
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 3: Talking here about Gaza.

604
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 2: We are not going back all the way to the

605
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 2: Balfour Declaration and all of that, because otherwise we'd be

606
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,239
Speaker 2: here for several hours. But I thought it would be

607
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: at least semi useful to give people a primer on Gaza,

608
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 2: what exactly it is, or the development and at least

609
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 2: its history in regards to the modern news state, and

610
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 2: then very very high level I'm sure that some of

611
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 2: this will be not characterized to the liking of scholars

612
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 2: and all those other people out there, So please forgive me.

613
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 2: I genuinely am doing my best. Let's put this up

614
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 2: there on the screen. This is the map from nineteen

615
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,080
Speaker 2: forty nine, after the Arab Israeli War, after the establishment

616
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 2: of the State of Israel by the United Nations and

617
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 2: after the British mandate was terminated. Well you can see

618
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 2: are the nineteen forty nine armistice lines. Gaza was under

619
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: Egyptian occupation after the Arab Israeli War. Critically, it remained

620
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 2: under Egyptian occupation and Egyptian administration along with some United

621
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 2: Nations councils and other things, effectively until the nineteen sixty

622
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 2: seven war. Let's go ahead and put that up there

623
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: please on the screen. This is very critical. After the

624
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty seven war, what otherwise is known as the

625
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: Sixth Day War, you could see that the Gaza strip

626
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,479
Speaker 2: was taken and occupied by Israel, as well as the

627
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: West Bank, the gol On Heights and the Sinai Peninsula. Eventually,

628
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: after a series of international agreements, what has happened is

629
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 2: a Gaza fell under a quasi Palestinian authority. Type government,

630
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 2: but multiple different international engagements that happened as to how

631
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 2: the place would be administered. It eventually led to withdrawal

632
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 2: from the Sinai Peninsula in exchange for peacekeeping. The West

633
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: Bank and Gaza then had the establishment of the Palestinian Authority,

634
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: and then much of the sixties, all the way up

635
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: until the two thousands, that's where we saw things kind

636
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 2: of settle.

637
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 3: Then.

638
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 2: This also included though, by the way, Israeli settlers and

639
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 2: people who lived inside of Gaza. After the Oslo Accords

640
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 2: that were signed in Oslo broker by President Bill Clinton

641
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 2: and the international community, they eventually agreed to quote unquote

642
00:32:54,800 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: Israeli disengagement from the Gaza Strip, which meant Israel would

643
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 2: no longer occupy the territory, they would no longer have presence,

644
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: they would no longer have citizens that lived inside of Gaza.

645
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,719
Speaker 2: Two thousand and five is when this policy was officially implemented.

646
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,360
Speaker 2: They were forcibly removed many Israeli citizens from Gaza, and

647
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: the idea was, okay, now Gaza and the West Bank,

648
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 2: you guys hold elections, you guys administer under the Palestinian Authority.

649
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 2: What happened then is this let's put this up there

650
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 2: on the screen. Hamas ended up winning the Gaza Strip

651
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 2: council vote seven out of the ten councils in the

652
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 2: Gaza Strip and crushed the FATA party of Mahmoudabas. And

653
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 2: this party was a guess seen by the West, by

654
00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,960
Speaker 2: Israel and others, as more moderate and not more willing

655
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 2: to embrace terrorism and violence, whereas Hamas, not only being

656
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 2: an Islamist party, has written in his constitution calling for

657
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:52,320
Speaker 2: the death of the State of Israel.

658
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: Let me back, go ahead, and let me just interject

659
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: two things there. Number one, because I think in an

660
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: American context it will help to recall that moment in

661
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: America and history.

662
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:01,520
Speaker 4: Have got George W.

663
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,760
Speaker 1: Bush and this idea of democracy in the Middle East,

664
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 1: and we're going to, you know, rebuild these nations in

665
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: our image, et cetera, et cetera, rock war, all of that.

666
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:14,320
Speaker 1: And so the idea here from the Bush administration was, oh.

667
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: Well, we'll have for it because we're also doing Iraqi

668
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,240
Speaker 2: elections at this time, which comes at the Bush second inaugural,

669
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:21,760
Speaker 2: which was all about democracy promotion.

670
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: And so in any case, they get a result that

671
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: they do not like, yes, and being the US can't

672
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: accept that there's a result that they do not like,

673
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: so they actually got involved in meddling and trying to

674
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 1: back up Fatah after Hamas had won the election, And

675
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people argue that are you know, intelligence

676
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:46,320
Speaker 1: agencies getting involved in that intra Palestinian conflict and effectively

677
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: civil war really is what kind of led to Hamas

678
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: taking over Gaza. And I also would be remiss if

679
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,239
Speaker 1: I didn't mention, in the spirit of blowback here that

680
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: Hamas was actually encouraged and hoarded and funded by Israel

681
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 1: in the beginning as an attempt to be a bulwark

682
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 1: against the PLO, who they didn't like, and they were

683
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: sort of more like traditional like leftists, freedom filing, that's

684
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,479
Speaker 1: how they styled themselves. There were she's there as well, yeah,

685
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: and corruption, et cetera. But they had bolstered Hamas as

686
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 1: an attempted bulwark against PLO. And then Hamas gets traction

687
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: in part because of the aid they're able to provide

688
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: in schools and healthcare, et cetera. And this very extreme

689
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: you know ideology and openly terroristic ideology. So they gain

690
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 1: a lot of support and they end up taking over Gaza.

691
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:41,920
Speaker 1: In part because of the actions of both Israel and the.

692
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 3: United States, and that's where everything collapsed.

693
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: So after the Bush administration refused to recognize Hamas and

694
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 2: then they've effectively disengaged, we saw a split between Gaza

695
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 2: and the West Bank where they have different administrations, and

696
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 2: that's when the Israeli blockade really began.

697
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 3: So let's go and put this graphic up on the screen.

698
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:58,840
Speaker 2: This is made by Al Jazeero, so it is biased

699
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,720
Speaker 2: towards them, just giving people's up and what they say.

700
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 2: And point is that there have been four before this

701
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,280
Speaker 2: point major conflicts. I guess you could say two thousand

702
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 2: and eight to two thousand and nine there was a

703
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,600
Speaker 2: twenty three day war with Hamas eventually ended in kind

704
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 2: of a ceasefire. Twenty twelve, there was eight days. Twenty

705
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 2: fourteen was probably the most significant one before what's happening

706
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,759
Speaker 2: right now, a fifty day long war. Again, all of

707
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: it focused on either violations of ceasefire in some cases

708
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 2: on the Israeli side and some cases with the Hamas side,

709
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,160
Speaker 2: lots of rockets that were being fired, and eventually again

710
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 2: ended in a ceasefire and a tentative stalemate. But I

711
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 2: think that the most important thing for people to understand,

712
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 2: as we said, is that this has been going on

713
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 2: now for so long that we've gotten far too comfortable

714
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 2: with the situation. It was never supposed to be like this.

715
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 2: We're supposed to have elections and we're supposed to move forward.

716
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,000
Speaker 2: Then Hamas won the election and we're like, no, we're

717
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 2: no longer going to think of this as legitimate. Then

718
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 2: is the Israeli government is like, well, we're going to

719
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,320
Speaker 2: put this under blockade because we've got a bunch of

720
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 2: terrorist militants that are inside there, and if we don't,

721
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: then they're just going to use the ability to have

722
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,399
Speaker 2: free flow of goods to smuggle weapons in and they're

723
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 2: going to threaten our security. And instead, what we've happened

724
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 2: is the yeah, some weapons didn't get in, but a

725
00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 2: lot did.

726
00:37:08,239 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 3: As we all just saw.

727
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: Then two point two million people in one of the

728
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,759
Speaker 2: most densely populated areas on Earth, the third most populated,

729
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: have also been living in basic squalor. And then the

730
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 2: Egyptians have also been participating in this blockade and they're

731
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,120
Speaker 2: basically cool with it at this point. The Egyptians, they

732
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 2: don't want to deal with the Palestinians. And I think

733
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 2: that's another place where a lot of the Arabs states

734
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 2: they they shouldn't be let off the hook. The Kataris,

735
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 2: the Saudis, the Egyptians, the Amorantes, the Abraham Accords and

736
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: all of that was basically an attempt to just move

737
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 2: past it.

738
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 3: They're like, we don't want to deal with this anymore.

739
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 4: We're just going to pretorn it doesn't exist.

740
00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 2: Right, And this is the Kataris in the Saudi Ice

741
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 2: living guitar as people know. And they used to have

742
00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 2: little drop boxes at the mall and places like for

743
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,840
Speaker 2: the Palestinian cause. And I just remember looking at that

744
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:53,959
Speaker 2: and being like, you're relying on pitidy little charity from

745
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 2: people when you were one of the richest people on earth.

746
00:37:56,600 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 3: I'm like, what are you doing.

747
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 2: You're not doing anything, And it's just clear they don't care,

748
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:02,800
Speaker 2: and a lot of people don't even understand.

749
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,120
Speaker 3: Even within the Arab.

750
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,080
Speaker 2: States, there's a lot of intra racism between the Gulf

751
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 2: Arabs and the Egyptians and how they view They very

752
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,840
Speaker 2: much look at the Palestinians as like poorly, you know,

753
00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: I'm dirty and not my words.

754
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:17,839
Speaker 3: That's the way they look at them we've ever been

755
00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 3: to Jordan. The Jordanians definitely are not so happy with

756
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 3: them either.

757
00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 4: Well, Jordan did accept a huge right.

758
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,440
Speaker 2: But the actual Jordanians citizens themselves, there's a lot of

759
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 2: beef and actually resentment because a huge portion of their

760
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 2: population is now Palestinian and they're like, they're not Jordanian,

761
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 2: you know. So my point is just that this is

762
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 2: a very messy and complicated situation. It gets us to

763
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 2: the point though, where this has happened. I think with

764
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 2: that background, what's important to remember is that the last

765
00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:45,560
Speaker 2: fifteen years in particular, have been the tinder box through

766
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 2: which all of these multiple conflicts have happened. The post

767
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:52,320
Speaker 2: Hama selection, the decision by the United States, the Arab Israelis,

768
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:54,920
Speaker 2: the Arab States, and the Israelis to basically just move

769
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:58,239
Speaker 2: past and say blockade, you know, blockade and siege is

770
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 2: the status quo where I'm just never going to move

771
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:00,560
Speaker 2: on from that.

772
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,280
Speaker 3: And the peace advocates have always said.

773
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 2: They're like, this is an untenable situation, it cannot hold,

774
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 2: and yeah, look, nobody is justifying Hamas.

775
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:13,120
Speaker 3: Here is so.

776
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 2: Horrific what they have done to so many of these

777
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: Israeli citizens and it's just one of those where I

778
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 2: think with that broader context, people can at least understand

779
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 2: why this one is going to be a burn and

780
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:28,000
Speaker 2: possibly could go on for a long time because we

781
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 2: got fifteen and in some cases one hundred year old

782
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 2: beefs now to settle and where the lines are and

783
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,359
Speaker 2: who will accept whom, For example, Israel being like we're

784
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 2: going to put under blockade, Well, the Egyptians aren't going

785
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: to let them in. And in some cases they're like, oh,

786
00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 2: you know, Palestinian citizens should evacuate from this area, but

787
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 2: in many cases, like where are they supposed to go?

788
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,239
Speaker 2: They literally do not have a border that they control.

789
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 2: That's very difficult and that will lead certainly. So I

790
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 2: really what I'm hoping from this is that the Arab Is,

791
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 2: the Arab States, and the Egyptians have got to insert

792
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 2: themselves into this process. Otherwise we're just see a massive

793
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 2: loss of human life. The Israelis are going to go

794
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:10,240
Speaker 2: in or there's going to be something, and if that happens,

795
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 2: there will be tens of.

796
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,760
Speaker 3: Thousands of people who are killed. Yeah, tens of thousands,

797
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 3: and many Israelis will be killed too.

798
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 1: Already, even without the ground invasion, the fact that you

799
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:24,800
Speaker 1: have this siege, complete siege, cut of food, water, electricity

800
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: on two point two million citizens. And by the way,

801
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:31,399
Speaker 1: just as there is descent in Israel, just as there

802
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: is descent here, there's descent in Gaza, there's descent in

803
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,839
Speaker 1: the West Bank. And and not everyone is Hamas. We're

804
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:43,759
Speaker 1: talking children, women, families, people just trying to live. So

805
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:47,720
Speaker 1: please remember that as we see all of this moving forward,

806
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 1: and you know, all of those Israeli wars on Gaza,

807
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,759
Speaker 1: those they have an expression for that. They call it

808
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: mowing the grass, which is the ideas periodically we have

809
00:40:58,480 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 1: to come in and we have to blow up a

810
00:40:59,600 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: bunch of billings, we have to kill a bunch of people.

811
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: And by the way, it's not just Hamas militants, it's

812
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: also many civilians and children who are killed in these incursions,

813
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:11,880
Speaker 1: in part, you know, because it is so densely popular.

814
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,759
Speaker 3: And Hamas uses it to their benefit too, There's no.

815
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 4: Doubt about it.

816
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: I mean, these there's no defense of the tactics that

817
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: they deployed here and that they you know, frequently deploy

818
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: but thousands of Palestinians and people living in Gaza killed

819
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:31,759
Speaker 1: routinely in these incursions. And so if the thought is, Okay,

820
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: we're going to do it again, only more brutal, you

821
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:34,840
Speaker 1: think that's going to solve anything.

822
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,600
Speaker 2: Well, my hope is that the Israeli population because again

823
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 2: the reason why that that the population was willing to

824
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,920
Speaker 2: accept that is they thought it was working. They were like, oh, okay,

825
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:45,799
Speaker 2: our people know the IDF knows exactly where they are.

826
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:48,200
Speaker 2: Would they know what they're planning. We've got them infiltrated.

827
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: That's why we can go in and mow the grass.

828
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,919
Speaker 2: It's an effective strategy. It is a colossal failure. Yeah,

829
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 2: colossal failure at this point, right, And in fact, you know,

830
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 2: the Israelis are like, oh, well, we know exactly where

831
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 2: they are and on which floor.

832
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,680
Speaker 3: Now I'm like, I don't know, man, I'm not sure

833
00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:01,759
Speaker 3: I believe you. I used to.

834
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: I honestly did, because their their surveillance and infrastructure was

835
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 2: so good or it was so vaunted, you know here

836
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:13,320
Speaker 2: in the West and elsewhere. As the premier intelligence agency

837
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 2: in the world, you know, nothing is off limits and

838
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 2: there will do whatever it takes to defend them. But

839
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 2: now after this, I mean, this is this is equivalent

840
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 2: with a nine to eleven intelligence failure on the CIA

841
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 2: and the FBI.

842
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 3: They're calling it.

843
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 2: There's nine to eleven there not their Pearl Harbor like

844
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,759
Speaker 2: combined into one, just because politic we're not talking about

845
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:31,960
Speaker 2: the death hole. We're talking about how it shakes the

846
00:42:32,000 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 2: political foundation of how they think about their entire infrastructure.

847
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: And that's a real warning because whether you agree with

848
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 1: that analogy or not, I think your correct saga in

849
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 1: the way that it has completely, in an instant, reshaped

850
00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: the way that Israelis are looking at the situation.

851
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 4: Previously, they weren't even looking at the situation.

852
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 3: No, they didn't care.

853
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,880
Speaker 1: It was just completely invisible. Again, as as you know,

854
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,440
Speaker 1: emblematic of that is a festival in favor of infinite

855
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: freedom three miles from the God's border, right, And so

856
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 1: that's not an option anymore. And let's recall the way

857
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: we responded to nine to eleven, which was horrific and

858
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 1: which we would have been better if we did nothing.

859
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 1: The amount of death and treasure spent, American lives lost,

860
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: certainly a rocky lives lost, Afghani lives lost. You know,

861
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:22,320
Speaker 1: the decades that we spent in both of those countries

862
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 1: destabilizing the entire region, and by the way, spurring and

863
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: helping create a lot more terrorism unfortunately far you know,

864
00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,400
Speaker 1: far beyond what we were supposedly fighting and combating in

865
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,920
Speaker 1: the region. So when you have a real shock to

866
00:43:39,000 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: the system like this, it can go in a lot

867
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 1: of ugly directions which will reverberate for years and years

868
00:43:45,600 --> 00:43:47,719
Speaker 1: to come. The last thing I want to say here,

869
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: we've got put B five up on the screen because

870
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,879
Speaker 1: oftentimes this is presented and I get it like it's news.

871
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 1: You're trying to cover what's happening now, et cetera, and

872
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: so it can feel like, oh, this just came out

873
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: of nowhere, like this conflict just started two days ago.

874
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: Even in this past year, there have been a lot

875
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 1: of warning signs because there has been real escalating violence.

876
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: They go through a timeline here from the Washington Post.

877
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,319
Speaker 1: You know, going back a year ago in January, you

878
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: had an Israeli military operation in refugee camp in Jeanine

879
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: result in a shootout, killed nine Palestinians. The next day,

880
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,080
Speaker 1: then you have a Palestinian gunman who goes to a

881
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,200
Speaker 1: synagogue in retaliation, killing seven people, including children.

882
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:32,319
Speaker 3: So you have that.

883
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,959
Speaker 1: Then in the spring, you had during the Muslim holy

884
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: month of Ramadan, Palestinian worshippers at al Aksa Mosque, which

885
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: is one of the most holy sites in the Muslim religion,

886
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 1: barricaded themselves inside the mosque. Israeli police stormed the site

887
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: in the old city that you've done grenades, tear gas,

888
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: far its, punge tip bullets, indiscriminately beat Muslim worshippers, including

889
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,959
Speaker 1: elderly people and women, with batons and rifle butts. That's

890
00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,200
Speaker 1: according to the UN Human Rights Office. This is been

891
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: an increasing point of tension, in part directly because of

892
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: one of the Netanyahu's cabinet ministers, Ben Gavie, who's been

893
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 1: intentionally provocative with regard to Alaxa and disrupting what has

894
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:15,320
Speaker 1: been a long held status quo there. About a month later,

895
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,400
Speaker 1: Israel launches surprise airstrikes in Godza, targeting leaders of Islamic

896
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: Jahad and another militant organization which sometimes allies with Hamas.

897
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:26,560
Speaker 1: Those kill three top militants and ten others, including four

898
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: women and four children. You had a summer that included

899
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: more military raids on the city of Janine and the

900
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 1: refugee camp there. You had more drones strikes actually inside

901
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: of the West Bank, and significantly you had increasing violence

902
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: between Palestinians and Jewish settlers.

903
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 3: Yes, that's a big part of it.

904
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: These settlements are illegal under international law. They're part of

905
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,520
Speaker 1: the immediate problem here is the fact that these settlements

906
00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: were being protected by the IDF in lieu of protecting

907
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, these border towns around Gaza.

908
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 4: So there'd been a huge redeployment towards.

909
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: This area, and you had Israeli settlers who were rampaging

910
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: through Palestinian towns, tons of violence there, and so you know,

911
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: it's not like there was nothing going on and it

912
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: was all peace and quiet, and then this attack comes

913
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: out of nowhere. And then you add to that the

914
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:25,760
Speaker 1: geopolitical situation of this potential deal Saudi normalization with Israel

915
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,799
Speaker 1: that obviously they're very unhappy with, and it led to,

916
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: you know, absolute horror.

917
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,439
Speaker 2: I also want to say there were some signs here

918
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,239
Speaker 2: with which the Israelis were ignoring. A good friend of mine,

919
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 2: Trey Yanks. I used to cover the White House with him.

920
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 2: He's now the Fox News correspondent actually in Israel. He's

921
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 2: one of the I'm telling you, one of those unbiased

922
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 2: people just because he just points the camera and he'll

923
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 2: be like, here's what's happening right now at this state.

924
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 3: He flagged this.

925
00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:51,400
Speaker 2: Actually, he's done multiple interviews with Hamas, with Palestinian Islamic

926
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 2: Jihad and with the IDF, and he flagged this from

927
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 2: August of twenty fifth, twenty twenty three, almost a month ago.

928
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 2: A little bit over a month ago. He says, quote,

929
00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: we are preparing for all out war. The deputy head

930
00:47:03,160 --> 00:47:05,839
Speaker 2: of the Political Bureau of Hamash they were not like

931
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 2: they weren't they were doing working. Yeah, exactly, they were practicing.

932
00:47:09,239 --> 00:47:10,000
Speaker 4: And this was known.

933
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 1: They were practicing raids on Israeli villages. I mean, you know,

934
00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:17,360
Speaker 1: they were pretending like they were going in, and the

935
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: IDF and Masad and Yahoo, they all thought this was

936
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,799
Speaker 1: just a fate, that this was just bluster there. They

937
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,840
Speaker 1: also had started I guess there's at times Hamas will

938
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: prohibit people from protesting at the border fence. They had

939
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 1: allowed these protests to restart. This was also just seen

940
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 1: as trying to get leverage to get more work permits

941
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 1: into Israel. And so in any case, just an unbelievable failure.

942
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 4: And it's so.

943
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 1: Hard to put into words how tragic this situation is,

944
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 1: the horror on the Israeli side and the horror on

945
00:47:52,480 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: the Palestinian side, and what they're you know, this complete

946
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: siege now and attacks on marketplace and moss and apartment buildings,

947
00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: et cetera, which are also murdering innocent civilians.

948
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 4: And what's so.

949
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: Difficult about it is it's just so hard to see

950
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,840
Speaker 1: a way out at this point. And we're about to

951
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,360
Speaker 1: talk to to ken Roth and I'll bring him in

952
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: a moment. But I think in the US we continue

953
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:15,399
Speaker 1: to hold on to this fiction of like, oh, we're

954
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: going to get to a two state solution. Nanna, who

955
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,880
Speaker 1: has abandoned any pretense that they're working towards a two

956
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: state solution. He has his whole policy has been basically like, no,

957
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 1: this is the status quo.

958
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:29,920
Speaker 4: We're just going to keep it as it is.

959
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:32,120
Speaker 1: We're gonna have the blockade, we're going to occupy West Bank,

960
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: we're going to continue to build out these illegal settlements,

961
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,680
Speaker 1: which in previous agreements they had agreed not to do.

962
00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:39,640
Speaker 1: While they continue to build it out. They've even within

963
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 1: the West Bank, they're like, it's not you think of

964
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 1: that as Oh, it's this one territory. No, it's all

965
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: divided up to make room for these illegal settlements. There

966
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: are certain roads you're not even allowed to drive on

967
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: if you're Palestinian that are built just for the settlers,

968
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,080
Speaker 1: and so it's made it a real impossibility to actually

969
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:00,520
Speaker 1: have a feasible two state solution.

970
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 4: They're not interested in it.

971
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:02,640
Speaker 3: I don't think so.

972
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 1: I mean that's part of I think the reality here is.

973
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 1: You know again, I just want to be one hundred

974
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: percent clear. Nothing justifies attacks on civilians. Nothing we say

975
00:49:11,640 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: here justifies this whatsoever. But if you're looking at it

976
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,120
Speaker 1: on the Palestine, they've tried nonviolent It's not like they

977
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:19,440
Speaker 1: haven't tried nonviolent protests and been met with bullets.

978
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 4: By the way, you know BDS.

979
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 1: If you support BDS, you're anti Semite, so that's off

980
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: the table. They've tried violent resistance before certainly too that

981
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: hasn't worked either.

982
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 4: And it seems like a.

983
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 1: Completely untenable, unsustainable situation that is just going to certainly

984
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 1: lead to more pain, chaos, and death moving forward.

985
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 4: And it's hard to see a.

986
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 3: Real way of That's what I was going to say.

987
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 2: I don't think that it is possible to see any

988
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 2: political ceasefire settlement on this until a colossal loss of

989
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 2: life is going to happen. And I don't say that

990
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 2: because I want it to happen. I just don't think.

991
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 2: I don't really see a scenario. I mean, think about

992
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:55,439
Speaker 2: you know, post nine eleven, it was politically untenable to

993
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: try and pursue like basically nothing. The only thing that

994
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 2: was politically tenable was to basically just full scale war.

995
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,439
Speaker 2: That's why the American people, even though Sadamasayin had nothing

996
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: to do with nine to eleven, two years later, we're

997
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,360
Speaker 2: willing to have a massive ground invasion. I wouldn't be

998
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,960
Speaker 2: very much doubt the ability for the Israelis not to

999
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 2: have the same domestic thing also, although I hope not,

1000
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 2: given that they have a lot more experience with war.

1001
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 3: Same on the Palestinian side.

1002
00:50:18,320 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 2: You know, at this point you're locked in and then

1003
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:24,160
Speaker 2: and then all it takes is one actual attack that

1004
00:50:24,239 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 2: you know, one bomb that goes wrong, a couple hundred

1005
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 2: civilians are killed, and now that's your justification for fighting,

1006
00:50:29,040 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 2: and everything just keeps upping the ante over and over

1007
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 2: and over and over again. So without the direct intervention

1008
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 2: of the Arab States, the Egyptians and the United States.

1009
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 2: This is almost certain to just go and drag on

1010
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,320
Speaker 2: now for a long time, basically as.

1011
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 3: It has been.

1012
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 2: It's just a recurring and also politically, there will be

1013
00:50:49,000 --> 00:50:51,239
Speaker 2: the I don't think these really populous at this at

1014
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 2: some point. This two taste pollution things, two tastes, two states.

1015
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 2: Solution inside of Israel is always complicated in terms of

1016
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 2: how the ultra orthodox and the religious Jews felt about

1017
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 2: versus how the secular is really Jews. But at this point,

1018
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 2: the talking point from the right has always been, well,

1019
00:51:05,600 --> 00:51:06,920
Speaker 2: if we give them a state, they're just going to

1020
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 2: use the state in order to attack us. And now

1021
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 2: this is the ultimate gift that Hamas has given them,

1022
00:51:12,680 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 2: because they're like, see, we gave it to them. Even

1023
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,400
Speaker 2: under blockade, even under occupation, they were still able to

1024
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 2: get their stuff. So that means, you know, their solution

1025
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:26,040
Speaker 2: to this is full scale occupation, complete reconquest to drive

1026
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:30,279
Speaker 2: out Hamas. And that's basically what a counterinsurgency. That just

1027
00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 2: means you have a slow burn conflict again now for

1028
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 2: a long time, and no political settlement. So I think

1029
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:38,480
Speaker 2: it's going to be a long time, and I think

1030
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 2: it's a really horrific human tragedy. And I think with that,

1031
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 2: you know, we've got a good guest standing by Ken Roth.

1032
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:44,839
Speaker 6: Let's get to it.

1033
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: Honored to be joined this morning by a front of

1034
00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: the show. Ken Roth, who is the former longtime executive

1035
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,600
Speaker 1: director of Human Rights Watch and also now a visiting

1036
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: professor at Princeton, has a book coming out probably next fall.

1037
00:51:57,760 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 4: We're looking forward to that as well. Great to have you, sir.

1038
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:01,439
Speaker 6: Thank be back. Thank you.

1039
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,800
Speaker 1: First, just your initial thoughts on some of the domestic

1040
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 1: political context within Israel as we watched, you know, the

1041
00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 1: horror of this carnage that unfolded on Israeli citizens.

1042
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 9: Well, you know, obviously this Hamas attack was a blatant

1043
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 9: war crime. You know, they went after civilians. You know,

1044
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:24,560
Speaker 9: they went to this music festival and seemed to have

1045
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 9: massacred two hundred and fifty, you know, just music enjoyers.

1046
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 9: They went around you know, villages and towns near Gaza

1047
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 9: and rounded up civilians and brought them back to Gaza

1048
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 9: as hostages. You know, these are all blatant war crimes.

1049
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 9: And I guess people are asking how did this happen?

1050
00:52:43,080 --> 00:52:46,680
Speaker 9: Because Israeli intelligence is known for being you know, kind

1051
00:52:46,680 --> 00:52:48,720
Speaker 9: of well integrated into Gaza.

1052
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 6: They tend to know what's going on.

1053
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,160
Speaker 9: And you know, if you listen to Hamas, they clearly

1054
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,759
Speaker 9: were planning this for months and months. So I don't

1055
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 9: know why it broke down. I mean, clearly some people

1056
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 9: saw it. For the people higher up just didn't believe it.

1057
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,400
Speaker 9: You know, often the key to intelligence is not so

1058
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 9: much what are the physical things that are happening, but

1059
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 9: what are the intentions behind those events? And you know,

1060
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 9: somebody misread the intentions. They thought that Hamas was much

1061
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 9: more interested at this stage and you know, making money

1062
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 9: and running Gaza than in launching an attack of this sort.

1063
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 6: So you know, there will have to be a clear inquiry.

1064
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 9: You know, what we don't really know is to what

1065
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:30,640
Speaker 9: extent have the divisions within Israel contributed to this failure,

1066
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,799
Speaker 9: because you know, as everybody is aware, Netanyahu's far right

1067
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 9: government has been you know, not only rapidly expanding settlements

1068
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:43,440
Speaker 9: in the West Bank, but they've been attacking the independence

1069
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 9: of Israel's judiciary, you know, really undermining the checks and

1070
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 9: balances of a democracy. This has led to massive protests

1071
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 9: in Israel, really unprecedented protests, Real divisions within the society.

1072
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 9: You know, did that contribute to the intelligence failure here?

1073
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,719
Speaker 9: You know, we don't know yet. There will clearly be inquiries,

1074
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 9: but that was the backdrop that may have been a

1075
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 9: big factor here.

1076
00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:08,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an important one that actually one of the

1077
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,400
Speaker 2: lead editorials, and Haratz can put this up there on

1078
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,440
Speaker 2: the screen just yesterday, was calling for the removal of

1079
00:54:15,520 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 2: Neta Yahu. They say Notata Yaho bears responsibility for this

1080
00:54:19,120 --> 00:54:22,880
Speaker 2: Israel Gaza war, specifically highlighting the issues that you're talking about,

1081
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 2: not only in terms of the protest but also deployment

1082
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 2: with regards to settlement. So I'm curious if you could

1083
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 2: give the audience some background that might have played there

1084
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:34,799
Speaker 2: in terms of the IDF response then immediately, and then

1085
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 2: how the political impact then on that decision and how

1086
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,879
Speaker 2: Israelis could be digesting that news in real time.

1087
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 9: Well, I mean, clearly, if you look back at the

1088
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:44,960
Speaker 9: last couple of months, I mean, not only has Israel

1089
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:50,560
Speaker 9: been preoccupied by Netanyahu's assaults on Israel's democracy, but it

1090
00:54:50,560 --> 00:54:53,799
Speaker 9: has also been a violent period in the West Bank.

1091
00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 9: You know, Nettayah, who really in order to save his

1092
00:54:56,239 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 9: skin in order to avoid corruption charges, made this far

1093
00:55:01,160 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 9: right government is the only one he could assemble because

1094
00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 9: most of the moderates did not want to join with

1095
00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 9: him while he faced these corruption charges. And you know,

1096
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 9: they have pursued, you know, not only an active settlement

1097
00:55:14,480 --> 00:55:17,880
Speaker 9: building process, which itself is a war crime under the

1098
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 9: fortunate of convention, but they also seem to have given

1099
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 9: the green light to settlers to engage in acts of violence.

1100
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:27,840
Speaker 9: There have been a series of raids on you know,

1101
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,839
Speaker 9: what are said to be armed groups in the West Bank,

1102
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,960
Speaker 9: and so you know, really the idea has been largely

1103
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 9: focused on the West Bank. And you know, again, I know,

1104
00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:41,360
Speaker 9: I can't say, you know why they were asleep with

1105
00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 9: the switch on this. And it was also a Saturday

1106
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 9: that the Jewish Sabbath. It was an important holiday. You know,

1107
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,400
Speaker 9: the idea that Israel's enemies would use an important Jewish

1108
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:54,759
Speaker 9: holiday to attack Israel is hardly unprecedented, and you would

1109
00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:56,879
Speaker 9: think that people would have been awake to this possibility.

1110
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 1: Yes, I found it remarkable that at Haretz, which is

1111
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: sort of like I mean, correct me if I'm wrong,

1112
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: but it's sort of like the New York Times of Israel,

1113
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 1: that their lead editorial was so scathing of net Nyahoo

1114
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,520
Speaker 1: and so immediately, I mean that was the instant reactions.

1115
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 1: They said, the disaster that befelt Israel was the responsibility

1116
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:20,319
Speaker 1: of one person. Benjamin Netanyaho, the Prime Minister, has prided

1117
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,360
Speaker 1: himself on his vast political experience and irreplaceable wisdom in

1118
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: security matters, completely failed to identify the dangers he was

1119
00:56:27,080 --> 00:56:31,600
Speaker 1: consciously leading Israel into when establishing a government of annexation

1120
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,560
Speaker 1: and dispossession. Goes on to name check some of the

1121
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:39,080
Speaker 1: most extreme cabinet officials that he has included in his government.

1122
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:41,799
Speaker 1: There have been a lot of comparisons made to nine

1123
00:56:41,840 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 1: to eleven, saying, you know, this is basically Israel's nine

1124
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: to eleven and in terms of the shock to the system,

1125
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 1: But there was a very different immediate reaction here to

1126
00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:51,800
Speaker 1: nine to eleven, which was rally around the flag.

1127
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,040
Speaker 4: No one could criticize George W. Bush. I mean that

1128
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:54,640
Speaker 4: lasted for.

1129
00:56:54,600 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 1: Quite some time. His approval ratings ended up being sky high.

1130
00:56:58,480 --> 00:57:01,440
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem in the initial phases like there is

1131
00:57:01,480 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: that unanimity of analysis in Israel right now about the

1132
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: person of Netanyahu himself.

1133
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,760
Speaker 9: Yeah, I mean that Tenneho is a very controversial figure.

1134
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 9: You know, precisely because his top priority has always been

1135
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,280
Speaker 9: to save himself. Now, Howatz, I mean, I think the

1136
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 9: analogy to the New York Times is accurate, and that

1137
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,800
Speaker 9: it's it's highly respected, it's also left of center, and

1138
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 9: it's it's a big thing atayah who critic you know,

1139
00:57:23,920 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 9: the way the New York Times would have been saying

1140
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,280
Speaker 9: Trump critics. So, you know, it's not that surprising that

1141
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:31,760
Speaker 9: this comes from Howatz. You know, there is a rally

1142
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 9: around the flag tendency whenever, you know, a major attack

1143
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 9: comes like this, and clearly the you know, the loss

1144
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 9: of civilian light has just been tragic. I do think though,

1145
00:57:41,640 --> 00:57:44,200
Speaker 9: that there are lessons to be learned from nine to eleven, because,

1146
00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 9: you know, if we look back then, at first, you know,

1147
00:57:47,760 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 9: the US government really had the moral high ground around

1148
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:53,400
Speaker 9: the world. There was this you know, outpouring of sympathy

1149
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,840
Speaker 9: or horror, and over the course of a couple of years,

1150
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 9: Bush dissipated that. That's but he lost the moral high ground,

1151
00:58:02,360 --> 00:58:06,200
Speaker 9: you know, because of his highly abusive ground war in Iraq,

1152
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 9: you know, because of his use of torture and secret

1153
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:12,080
Speaker 9: detention centers, because of his long term detention without trial

1154
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 9: at Guantanamo, and I think that that is a lesson

1155
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 9: that I hope the Israeli government heats that, you know,

1156
00:58:18,160 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 9: if it wants to maintain the moral high ground that

1157
00:58:20,960 --> 00:58:23,520
Speaker 9: at this moment it enjoys because of these attacks on

1158
00:58:23,840 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 9: its civilians, it has to be careful how it responds.

1159
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,600
Speaker 9: And you know, already there have been elements of the

1160
00:58:30,680 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 9: response that are troubling.

1161
00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:32,480
Speaker 6: You know.

1162
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 9: Obviously, you know, Israel has every right under the laws

1163
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:38,840
Speaker 9: of war to attack hamas military facilities. But you know,

1164
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 9: there's already been a mosque hit, a market hit. There

1165
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 9: was a deliberate destruction of a large apartment building, which.

1166
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 6: Has happened in prior wars.

1167
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 9: I'm sure these Raelies will say, oh, there was you know,

1168
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 9: some tiny comas office somewhere in there. But you know,

1169
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 9: the end result is that there are you know, one

1170
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:58,440
Speaker 9: hundred people who suddenly have lost their homes. Israeli give

1171
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 9: they give a warning first, so people evacuate, but then

1172
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 9: this massive apartment building is destroyed.

1173
00:59:03,280 --> 00:59:05,439
Speaker 6: So this is the kind of thing that does lose

1174
00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:06,360
Speaker 6: the moral high ground.

1175
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:10,120
Speaker 9: Just this morning, the Defense Minister announced that there would

1176
00:59:10,160 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 9: be a total seed of Gaza, So you know, no food,

1177
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 9: no electricity, no nothing gets in.

1178
00:59:16,720 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 6: Now, this is you know, a.

1179
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,520
Speaker 9: Territory of two million plus people that already was suffering

1180
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 9: under you know, the perennial Israeli blockade. But in a war,

1181
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 9: warring parties have a duty to permit the free flow

1182
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,040
Speaker 9: of humanitarian aid. And so what the Defense Minister is

1183
00:59:34,080 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 9: basically saying is, you know, we don't care about the

1184
00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:38,560
Speaker 9: laws of world We're just going to block all aid

1185
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 9: going into Gaza. Now, you know, this is just a

1186
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 9: statement so far. We don't know if they will actually

1187
00:59:42,000 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 9: do it, but you know it's a statement of an

1188
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:46,520
Speaker 9: intention to commit a work on and this is the

1189
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 9: kind of response that will very quickly lose Israel.

1190
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:52,000
Speaker 6: This sympathy that it has.

1191
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,160
Speaker 9: People are going to Yes, you know, they'll be appalled

1192
00:59:54,160 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 9: at the loss of Israeli civilian life, but very quickly,

1193
00:59:57,520 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 9: if this continues, they're going to be appalled at the

1194
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:03,200
Speaker 9: loss of Palestinian civilian life and the tables will turn

1195
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:03,840
Speaker 9: very quickly.

1196
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:06,000
Speaker 4: Yeah. One of the things that's part of that statement,

1197
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:06,959
Speaker 4: that's your question.

1198
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 1: But he said, we are fighting human animals and we

1199
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:10,680
Speaker 1: act accordingly.

1200
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:11,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1201
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 2: One of the things I wanted to ask you, Ken

1202
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:16,760
Speaker 2: is you've been emphasizing and long have international humanitarian law.

1203
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 2: So as we enter this next phase of the conflict,

1204
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 2: we still await any possible it is really you know,

1205
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 2: invasion of Gaza, a reoccupation, or a future possible two

1206
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:29,480
Speaker 2: front war breakout. Can you just lay out what that

1207
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 2: can look like, as you alluded to, in terms of

1208
01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:36,040
Speaker 2: rights of how to strike militants, how Hamas itself is

1209
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:39,520
Speaker 2: guilty of war crimes, and then what that should adhere

1210
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:41,040
Speaker 2: to in the future, even though it's very.

1211
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:42,920
Speaker 6: Likely will not okay.

1212
01:00:42,920 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 9: Well, the laws of war, you know, basically the Geneva

1213
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 9: Conventions and their protocols are pretty straightforward in this area.

1214
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 9: You know, you are allowed, in the context of a

1215
01:00:52,680 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 9: war to shoot and try to kill the other sides combat,

1216
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 9: so you know, that's what war is about. Unfortunate that

1217
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:03,400
Speaker 9: it is. But you cannot is deliberately target civilians. On

1218
01:01:03,440 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 9: the other side, you cannot indiscriminately fire into civilian areas.

1219
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:11,600
Speaker 9: You can not attack even a military target if the

1220
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:15,960
Speaker 9: harm to civilians will be disproportionate, And obviously you cannot

1221
01:01:16,160 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 9: take civilians hostages. You know, you can capture combatants. You

1222
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 9: can capture a soldier. That's okay, but you cannot see civilians.

1223
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,480
Speaker 9: You've got to allow free flow of humanitarian aid. As

1224
01:01:26,480 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 9: I mentioned. Now, you know these are the laws. I mean,

1225
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,840
Speaker 9: Hamas clearly was breaching them, you know, right extremely in

1226
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:34,360
Speaker 9: its attack on Saturday.

1227
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 6: The question is real the Israeli government followed these rules

1228
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:38,640
Speaker 6: and you.

1229
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:41,360
Speaker 9: Know often in the past they haven't and their initial

1230
01:01:41,520 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 9: forays are not that encouraging. This is not simply an

1231
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 9: abstract issue. The International Criminal Court, you know, the kind

1232
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 9: of the Global War Crimes Tribunal, does have jurisdiction over

1233
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,840
Speaker 9: anything that happens in Gaza. And so you know, if

1234
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 9: there are blatant war crimes, the prosecutor could act. I mean,

1235
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:03,960
Speaker 9: he has been slow to act on Israel Palestine. He's

1236
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 9: had an open investigation now for some time. This could

1237
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:10,880
Speaker 9: spur him finally to act. And so you know, everybody's

1238
01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:13,360
Speaker 9: got to think about do they really want an arrest

1239
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,040
Speaker 9: warrant for them, the ability to travel really, you know,

1240
01:02:16,080 --> 01:02:19,160
Speaker 9: any place in Europe because all of Europe is a member.

1241
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:19,439
Speaker 6: Of the ICC.

1242
01:02:20,280 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 9: You know, these are things that are are kind of

1243
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 9: a real threat hanging over not only Hamas, but also

1244
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 9: is really official.

1245
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:28,920
Speaker 1: Do you really think it's a real threat though, because

1246
01:02:29,000 --> 01:02:31,240
Speaker 1: I mean, the whole reason they could be so brazen

1247
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,919
Speaker 1: in pre announcing a war crime is because it's they've

1248
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,960
Speaker 1: gotten away with it before. I mean, it would not

1249
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 1: be I mean, the settlements are illegal. I mean, there's

1250
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:45,120
Speaker 1: there's war crimes committed from the Israeli side all the time.

1251
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 1: And not only is there no accountability in terms of

1252
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,520
Speaker 1: international criminal corps, but there's no accountability with regard to

1253
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:52,320
Speaker 1: you know, their greatest run, the United States of America,

1254
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,640
Speaker 1: which continues to do what they want and send them,

1255
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 1: you know, all the aid and condition it on absolutely nothing.

1256
01:02:57,560 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 4: So isn't it the right?

1257
01:02:59,200 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, anyway, horrible in that regard.

1258
01:03:01,800 --> 01:03:04,320
Speaker 1: So do you actually think that there could be something

1259
01:03:04,360 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: that's different this time? Because I'll say, on the other

1260
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:08,280
Speaker 1: side of things, you know, we talked about the New

1261
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: York Times of Israel, the New York Times of the

1262
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 1: New York Times actually has a little bit of a

1263
01:03:12,600 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 1: different tone this time than in previous Israeli wars. On Gaza,

1264
01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:22,440
Speaker 1: Israeli Palestinian conflicts. You're seeing even some dissident voices on CNN,

1265
01:03:22,520 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 1: some Palestinian voices on CNN. You see a little more

1266
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 1: dissent within the Democratic Caucus. So do you think there

1267
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 1: could be a change in perception and coverage this time

1268
01:03:31,760 --> 01:03:33,439
Speaker 1: that actually may change the outcome here.

1269
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:34,479
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1270
01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:36,040
Speaker 9: Well, I mean, let me just first, in terms of

1271
01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:38,720
Speaker 9: the broader political background that you're alluding to, there has

1272
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 9: been a change in i think the tone of the

1273
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 9: debate in the United States, a growing recognition that the

1274
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:49,600
Speaker 9: Israeli government has been imposing apartheid on the occupy territory,

1275
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 9: a growing real dislike for the far right government.

1276
01:03:54,480 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 6: That Natanya who is leading.

1277
01:03:56,360 --> 01:03:58,400
Speaker 9: So, you know, it has been possible in the US

1278
01:03:58,440 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 9: political context, certainly in the broader public, maybe less so

1279
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 9: for the moment in Congress, but it's changing to speak,

1280
01:04:05,360 --> 01:04:08,120
Speaker 9: you know, much more critically about Israel. Now the other

1281
01:04:08,200 --> 01:04:10,120
Speaker 9: interesting development, I mean you talk about how you know,

1282
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:12,000
Speaker 9: Israel's committed these war crimes in the past and has

1283
01:04:12,000 --> 01:04:14,280
Speaker 9: gotten away with that, and that's you know, completely true.

1284
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:15,720
Speaker 6: I mean, the US basically protects it.

1285
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 9: You may recall that when the International Criminal Court prosecuted

1286
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 9: the prior one, Fatu Bensuda announced that she was opening

1287
01:04:23,440 --> 01:04:26,760
Speaker 9: an investigation into Palestine because Palestine is the member of

1288
01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:29,320
Speaker 9: the court, so you know, looking at crimes committed on

1289
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:34,880
Speaker 9: the territory of Palestine. Trump imposed sanctions on the prosecutor

1290
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:37,760
Speaker 9: and her deputy, you know, an outrageous interference with the

1291
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:41,840
Speaker 9: independence of this judicial institution. Now, you know, Biden, his credit,

1292
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:48,240
Speaker 9: lifted those sanctions. But more interestingly, the US government traditionally

1293
01:04:48,360 --> 01:04:53,720
Speaker 9: has opposed the Court having jurisdiction simply because a crime

1294
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:56,680
Speaker 9: is committed on the territory of a member of the Court.

1295
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:58,120
Speaker 6: They said it should only.

1296
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 9: Go after people whose governments have joined the Nobody else

1297
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:01,800
Speaker 9: believes that.

1298
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:02,840
Speaker 6: But that's the US position.

1299
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,160
Speaker 9: But the US has now changed that position in Ukraine

1300
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 9: because Ukraine has given the Court jurisdiction. Russia is not

1301
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 9: a member, and the US even Biden himself the charges

1302
01:05:15,320 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 9: against Putin, so in essence, at least in that context,

1303
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:23,480
Speaker 9: they have thrown away the US objection to territorial jurisdiction.

1304
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:27,600
Speaker 9: That's the only reason to object to the Court acting

1305
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:32,360
Speaker 9: on crimes committed in Palestinian territory. So the US can

1306
01:05:32,400 --> 01:05:36,000
Speaker 9: be completely unprincipled and say it's okay in Ukraine but

1307
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:39,720
Speaker 9: not okay in Gaza. You know, suddenly the Court will

1308
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,520
Speaker 9: have the latitude to act in a way that never

1309
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:43,240
Speaker 9: had before.

1310
01:05:44,000 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 3: I wouldn't put it past them. But you are right.

1311
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:50,000
Speaker 2: We appreciate you joining us, mister Roth. You're always such

1312
01:05:50,000 --> 01:05:51,960
Speaker 2: a great person to talk to, and I'm sure we'll

1313
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:52,360
Speaker 2: have you back.

1314
01:05:52,360 --> 01:05:54,160
Speaker 4: So thank you, yeah, thank you so much for taking

1315
01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:54,640
Speaker 4: the time.

1316
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:55,480
Speaker 6: Good singing.

1317
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:00,440
Speaker 2: At the same time, we have some major implicants for

1318
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 2: US policy, both on the presidential side and on the

1319
01:06:03,000 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 2: House speaker side. Don't forget the House speakership remains completely empty.

1320
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,160
Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and put this up there on the screen.

1321
01:06:09,400 --> 01:06:12,520
Speaker 2: The Israel War has now added major urgency to the

1322
01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 2: US Republican House speaker crisis, because as long as there's

1323
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 2: no speaker, nothing can happen on the floor of the

1324
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 2: House of Representatives. We've narrowed it down to two candidates,

1325
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:25,200
Speaker 2: Steve Scalice and Jim Jordan. Both have basically announced like

1326
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:28,560
Speaker 2: unequivocal aid for Israel. But the main thing is that

1327
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 2: whenever it comes to the speakership is that many who

1328
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 2: have called for more US military aid to Israel. Obviously

1329
01:06:35,600 --> 01:06:38,480
Speaker 2: that cannot pass if there is no speaker. So that

1330
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 2: is now a major incentive, I guess for a lot

1331
01:06:41,240 --> 01:06:43,640
Speaker 2: of Republicans. In order to wrap this up earlier, and

1332
01:06:43,720 --> 01:06:46,880
Speaker 2: just so people remember, for how this all works, there

1333
01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 2: will be a secret meeting, secret ballot or whatever tonight,

1334
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:55,480
Speaker 2: another meeting on Tuesday, and then a vote is scheduled

1335
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 2: for the speaker on Wednesday. There is no indication that

1336
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 2: will actually happen, that in terms of it will actually

1337
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:04,520
Speaker 2: get resolved in terms of the two major candidates. Like

1338
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 2: we said, things have basically been narrowed down Crystal to

1339
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:10,920
Speaker 2: Jim Jordan and to Steve Scalise. But it is interesting

1340
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:14,720
Speaker 2: because prior to this the only major international question was

1341
01:07:14,840 --> 01:07:18,640
Speaker 2: Ukraine AID. Jim Jordan specifically came out against AID two Ukraine.

1342
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:21,720
Speaker 2: Steve Scalie has been silent on a to Ukraine. But

1343
01:07:21,880 --> 01:07:25,880
Speaker 2: now Israel being the preeminent international issue here in Washington,

1344
01:07:26,800 --> 01:07:29,320
Speaker 2: obviously there's far more bipars and consensus on that one

1345
01:07:29,760 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 2: in terms of in Congress. And the thing is though,

1346
01:07:33,160 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 2: is that that well then add major urgency to some

1347
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,320
Speaker 2: of the possible holdouts, people like Nancy Mace, Matt Gates

1348
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,920
Speaker 2: and others in order to actually have a speedy election.

1349
01:07:43,040 --> 01:07:45,560
Speaker 2: That said, and I know, but I had, we still

1350
01:07:45,600 --> 01:07:48,120
Speaker 2: have to follow obviously the political news. Nancy Mace and

1351
01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:50,280
Speaker 2: Matt Gates and many others have come out in support

1352
01:07:50,360 --> 01:07:51,920
Speaker 2: of Jim Jordan some of these holdouts.

1353
01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:54,000
Speaker 3: So that's pretty much Trump and Donald Trump.

1354
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 4: Has backed Jim Jordan right now.

1355
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:58,360
Speaker 1: I'm curious from your perspective, if Trump's endorsement of Jordan

1356
01:07:58,520 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: is one hundred percent a good thing, whether there is

1357
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 1: some complications with that, because you do have some moderate

1358
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: Republicans in particular who are just elected New York in

1359
01:08:06,520 --> 01:08:09,680
Speaker 1: Joe Biden districts, who are you know, doing their best

1360
01:08:09,720 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 1: to try to distance themselves from the more extreme ranks

1361
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,000
Speaker 1: of the party and from Donald Trump himself.

1362
01:08:14,080 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 4: So what do you think about that.

1363
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,799
Speaker 2: I think I'd rather have it than not, because especially

1364
01:08:17,840 --> 01:08:21,120
Speaker 2: because the people who all voted to als. Kevin McCarthy, Yeah,

1365
01:08:21,200 --> 01:08:23,799
Speaker 2: all of those people are you know, disciples of Trump,

1366
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 2: except for Nancy Mace, who, as Kevin said, what did

1367
01:08:26,960 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 2: he say, He's like, well, she's in the league of

1368
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 2: her owner. That's a whole other story. And I think

1369
01:08:30,560 --> 01:08:32,120
Speaker 2: he's correct, But you're correct.

1370
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: What she just seems like one she got her finger

1371
01:08:34,479 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 1: in the very ambitious finger in the winds go and

1372
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:37,639
Speaker 1: wear out.

1373
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:40,680
Speaker 4: Because she's herself as like a moderate.

1374
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 1: You know, now she's stalling herself as some like dissident

1375
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:44,280
Speaker 1: Matt Gates.

1376
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 3: Type, whatever, let's put her to the side.

1377
01:08:46,240 --> 01:08:48,320
Speaker 2: Yes, there are other New York Republicans that he said,

1378
01:08:48,320 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 2: guys like Mike Lawler and others who they would not

1379
01:08:50,880 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 2: necessarily vote somebody for Trump. But I think what the

1380
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,720
Speaker 2: Republicans will do in the Israel situation actually adds this

1381
01:08:57,200 --> 01:08:59,800
Speaker 2: if they can try and hammer this all out behind

1382
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:03,400
Speaker 2: and also with some demands and other things made by

1383
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,240
Speaker 2: Matt Gates where he basically said, I'll give up the

1384
01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:08,800
Speaker 2: entire motion to vacate if you guys agree to this

1385
01:09:08,880 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 2: legislation that Rokana is introduced about term limits, about stock

1386
01:09:12,160 --> 01:09:14,240
Speaker 2: trade and bands and others. There could be some interesting

1387
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 2: horse trading behind the scenes. Obviously we're massively supportive of that,

1388
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 2: and we will. This show is all about mostly about

1389
01:09:19,479 --> 01:09:21,479
Speaker 2: Israel and its impact, but we'll get to that later

1390
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 2: in the week. So please don't worry, especially whenever we

1391
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 2: do have a speaker election. What I think that adds

1392
01:09:26,960 --> 01:09:29,920
Speaker 2: the complication to this is that because he only needs

1393
01:09:29,920 --> 01:09:32,200
Speaker 2: seven or eight, as you said, you may be able

1394
01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:34,840
Speaker 2: to get the seven or eight holdouts on the anti

1395
01:09:34,960 --> 01:09:37,160
Speaker 2: McCarthy side, But now you might have seven or eight

1396
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:40,599
Speaker 2: holdouts on the Steve Scalise side, who may not agree

1397
01:09:40,720 --> 01:09:43,160
Speaker 2: to have Jim Jordan. I would though, think that the

1398
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,360
Speaker 2: amount of pressure that the Israel situation is putting on

1399
01:09:46,520 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 2: Congress there is much more of a apt like a

1400
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:55,560
Speaker 2: push from party leaders from colleagues to fold nearly immediately.

1401
01:09:55,800 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 2: So whoever does win that first ballot, I think they're

1402
01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,559
Speaker 2: going to have a major advantage because there can be Look, guys,

1403
01:10:00,560 --> 01:10:01,879
Speaker 2: we got to coalesce, We've got.

1404
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:03,519
Speaker 3: To get this done. That's what I think that that's

1405
01:10:03,560 --> 01:10:06,720
Speaker 3: this situation really does speed up. I think the speaker electtion.

1406
01:10:06,479 --> 01:10:08,799
Speaker 1: That's my read of the situation as well. And moderates

1407
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:11,280
Speaker 1: quote unquote moderates would be the first to like cave

1408
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 1: to that kind of pressure too, and they tend to

1409
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:18,240
Speaker 1: be the most overtly pro Israel as well. So that's

1410
01:10:18,280 --> 01:10:20,479
Speaker 1: my read of the situation too. There is an interesting

1411
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:23,600
Speaker 1: dynamic here. So you know, we've been saying, and everybody's

1412
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:25,559
Speaker 1: been saying, like, oh, you can't do anything in the

1413
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,000
Speaker 1: House until you have an official speaker. So the speaker

1414
01:10:28,040 --> 01:10:32,120
Speaker 1: ProTem really can't do anything except for hold votes to

1415
01:10:32,520 --> 01:10:34,640
Speaker 1: get a speaker. That's all you can do until you

1416
01:10:34,680 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 1: actually have a speaker. Well, now that there's a question

1417
01:10:37,640 --> 01:10:41,760
Speaker 1: of support for Israel and Israeli aid, now they're like, well,

1418
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:44,840
Speaker 1: maybe it's a little different than what we were saying before.

1419
01:10:44,920 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 1: Put this up on the screen from Axios. They say, scoop,

1420
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:51,200
Speaker 1: House members tee up pro Israel resolution and part of

1421
01:10:51,240 --> 01:10:54,719
Speaker 1: the idea here with this, it's an apac written resolution

1422
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:56,720
Speaker 1: just basically to say we stand with Israel and they

1423
01:10:56,720 --> 01:10:59,879
Speaker 1: have a right to self defense or whatever it says. Basically,

1424
01:11:00,080 --> 01:11:04,000
Speaker 1: the idea is to push a new precedent of what

1425
01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:08,320
Speaker 1: the speaker ProTem can actually do and can actually accomplish.

1426
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:11,559
Speaker 1: They quote this Georgetown law professor Josh Chafitz, who says

1427
01:11:11,560 --> 01:11:13,479
Speaker 1: if they pass a resolution, it does then create a

1428
01:11:13,520 --> 01:11:17,880
Speaker 1: precedent that they can do substantive business. Another individual is

1429
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:20,920
Speaker 1: director of Structural Democracy at the Bipytisan Policy Center, said

1430
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,800
Speaker 1: there's probably very little, if any, actual restriction on what

1431
01:11:23,920 --> 01:11:27,000
Speaker 1: a majority of the House could do right now. So

1432
01:11:27,240 --> 01:11:29,960
Speaker 1: that's another avenue is that they continue to push off

1433
01:11:30,080 --> 01:11:33,760
Speaker 1: the resolution of who's actually going to be Speaker of

1434
01:11:33,760 --> 01:11:36,320
Speaker 1: the House, but they just decide they can do whatever

1435
01:11:36,320 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 1: they want anyway.

1436
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:39,080
Speaker 3: In the meantime, well, they can always find a way

1437
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:39,800
Speaker 3: can't they Christian?

1438
01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, when they want to. It's amazing how quickly they're

1439
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:42,880
Speaker 1: able to act.

1440
01:11:42,960 --> 01:11:46,000
Speaker 2: The other funny constitutional questions are whether Patrick McHenry, the

1441
01:11:46,160 --> 01:11:49,080
Speaker 2: Speaker pro temper, is even allowed to get an intelligence briefing.

1442
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,679
Speaker 2: That's been a big brew haha, here in Washington. Can

1443
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:53,960
Speaker 2: he be briefed? Can he not be briefed? He's the

1444
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 2: interim speaker, you know, in the meantime. But the major

1445
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:00,200
Speaker 2: thing I think you need to know is that this

1446
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 2: will accelerate the process. It will put a lot of pressure,

1447
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:06,960
Speaker 2: especially because they want to be able to pass not

1448
01:12:07,040 --> 01:12:09,400
Speaker 2: necessarily just a military package, although I do think that

1449
01:12:09,439 --> 01:12:13,000
Speaker 2: will come with time, but a resolution or something like

1450
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:17,519
Speaker 2: that expressing support for the Israeli people. The government itself

1451
01:12:17,560 --> 01:12:20,519
Speaker 2: wants to be able to have some nimble action, and

1452
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:24,640
Speaker 2: without a speaker, you quite literally can't do anything in Congress,

1453
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 2: pass any legislation.

1454
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:27,240
Speaker 3: I would also.

1455
01:12:27,040 --> 01:12:30,120
Speaker 2: Remind everyone there are multiple other big bills that still

1456
01:12:30,160 --> 01:12:34,160
Speaker 2: need to pass. The NDAA, the actual funding of the

1457
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:36,120
Speaker 2: National Defense Authorization Act for the Pentagon.

1458
01:12:36,439 --> 01:12:37,760
Speaker 3: Almost certainly that's going to.

1459
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 2: Include a writer quote unquote, which is like an addition

1460
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:41,719
Speaker 2: for Ukraine and for Israel.

1461
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:41,840
Speaker 9: Wall.

1462
01:12:41,880 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 2: Will the politics like that look like. How will the

1463
01:12:43,920 --> 01:12:46,840
Speaker 2: Israeli Ukraine debate be affected. It could be linked together,

1464
01:12:46,880 --> 01:12:48,800
Speaker 2: it could be split apart. They could argue we need

1465
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:51,559
Speaker 2: to favor one over the other. I'll enjoy watching them

1466
01:12:51,760 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 2: that one fight out that will play out in the party.

1467
01:12:54,439 --> 01:12:58,800
Speaker 1: That's one potential direction is they tie additional Ukraine aid

1468
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:02,320
Speaker 1: and additional is AID together. And a lot of the

1469
01:13:02,320 --> 01:13:05,000
Speaker 1: people who are opposed to Ukraine aid are very much

1470
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:08,080
Speaker 1: in favor of Israel Aid, so that could be one

1471
01:13:08,120 --> 01:13:10,719
Speaker 1: tool that they use to try to get the next

1472
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:14,080
Speaker 1: round of Ukrainian aid through the House. We'll see how

1473
01:13:14,120 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 1: this all shakes out. Still a lot of questions there

1474
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:18,280
Speaker 1: how this is going to move forward, but certainly puts

1475
01:13:18,280 --> 01:13:19,519
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure and changes a lot.

1476
01:13:19,479 --> 01:13:21,000
Speaker 3: Of political dynamic. That is the major thing that you

1477
01:13:21,040 --> 01:13:21,640
Speaker 3: need to know about that.

1478
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:21,760
Speaker 7: Now.

1479
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,599
Speaker 2: In terms of the actual political response, there has been

1480
01:13:25,160 --> 01:13:28,799
Speaker 2: a major war now breaking out within the GOP about

1481
01:13:29,320 --> 01:13:33,000
Speaker 2: how the response should be. Nikki Hayley obviously taking up

1482
01:13:33,040 --> 01:13:36,080
Speaker 2: the Neo Khon mantle and basically calling for war with

1483
01:13:36,200 --> 01:13:39,560
Speaker 2: Iran as a result of this and a complete flattening

1484
01:13:39,600 --> 01:13:40,120
Speaker 2: of Gaza.

1485
01:13:40,240 --> 01:13:41,559
Speaker 3: Here's what she had to say.

1486
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:43,920
Speaker 8: But let's step back because I want the American people

1487
01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:46,680
Speaker 8: to kind of take this in for a second. Just

1488
01:13:46,840 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 8: imagine that here, the Israelis woke up and communities were bombarded.

1489
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 8: Families were murdered, women and children were taken hostage, dragged

1490
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:03,040
Speaker 8: through the street, the elderly were taken. All of this

1491
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:07,080
Speaker 8: has happened in front of everyone, on top of thousands.

1492
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 6: Of rockets that hit Israel.

1493
01:14:08,600 --> 01:14:12,480
Speaker 8: This should be personal for every woman and man in America.

1494
01:14:12,520 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 8: Why because when they did this, when they did this

1495
01:14:16,200 --> 01:14:19,599
Speaker 8: surprise attack, when they took these hostages, when they murdered

1496
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:23,520
Speaker 8: these families, they were celebrating. And what were they celebrating.

1497
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:26,720
Speaker 8: They were saying death to Israel, Death to America.

1498
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:28,280
Speaker 3: This is not just.

1499
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:31,480
Speaker 8: An attack on Israel. This is an attack on America

1500
01:14:31,560 --> 01:14:34,920
Speaker 8: because they hate us just as much. America can never

1501
01:14:34,960 --> 01:14:37,559
Speaker 8: be so arrogant to think we don't need friends just

1502
01:14:37,600 --> 01:14:40,240
Speaker 8: like we needed them on nine to eleven. That's why

1503
01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:42,800
Speaker 8: Ukraine needs us when Russia is doing this, That's why

1504
01:14:42,920 --> 01:14:45,920
Speaker 8: Israel needs us when Hamas and Iran are doing this.

1505
01:14:46,240 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 8: And I'll say this to Prime Minister Netanyahu, finish them,

1506
01:14:50,560 --> 01:14:53,920
Speaker 8: Finish them. Hamas did this, you know Iran's behind it.

1507
01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:56,919
Speaker 8: Finish them. They should have hell to pay for what they've.

1508
01:14:56,760 --> 01:14:59,320
Speaker 2: Just done, calling for war with Hamas, calling for war

1509
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:02,280
Speaker 2: with Iran's saying that this is an attack on America.

1510
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:05,080
Speaker 2: Former Vice President Mike Pen's taking shot at his old

1511
01:15:05,200 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 2: running mate Donald Trump, as well as vivig Ramaswami and

1512
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:10,639
Speaker 2: Ron DeSantis also in reaction.

1513
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:11,639
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

1514
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:14,760
Speaker 10: Well, I am, but let me begin at where we

1515
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,600
Speaker 10: ought to start. I mean that disastrous withdrawal from Afghanistan

1516
01:15:18,720 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 10: is emboldened the enemies of freedom around the world, and

1517
01:15:22,040 --> 01:15:26,439
Speaker 10: now war is raging in Eastern Europe. And President Joe

1518
01:15:26,439 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 10: Biden's cow towing for the last two and a half

1519
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:32,680
Speaker 10: years to the Malas in Iran, lifting sanctions, begging them

1520
01:15:32,720 --> 01:15:35,240
Speaker 10: to get back in the Iran Nuclear Deal, and then

1521
01:15:35,640 --> 01:15:40,200
Speaker 10: paying six billion dollars in a ransom for hostages. I

1522
01:15:40,240 --> 01:15:46,120
Speaker 10: think set the conditions for this unprecedented terrorist attack by

1523
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 10: Hamas against Israel. But I also believe this is what

1524
01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:53,760
Speaker 10: happens when we have leading voices like Donald Trump, vivek Ramswami,

1525
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:58,519
Speaker 10: and Ron DeSantis signaling retreat from America's role as leader

1526
01:15:58,560 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 10: of the free world. Look what happened in Ukraine was

1527
01:16:02,560 --> 01:16:07,519
Speaker 10: an unprovoked invasion by Russia. What happened this weekend was

1528
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:13,320
Speaker 10: an unprovoked invasion by Hamas into Israel. And I really

1529
01:16:13,320 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 10: believe now more than ever, both the debate within the

1530
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 10: Republican Party and the debate within America is whether or

1531
01:16:20,200 --> 01:16:24,320
Speaker 10: not we're going to once again stand without apology as

1532
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:27,680
Speaker 10: the leader of the free world, as the arsenal of democracy.

1533
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:30,400
Speaker 3: This is its two thousand and five. If I listen

1534
01:16:30,479 --> 01:16:30,800
Speaker 3: to these.

1535
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 1: People, seriously, how many wars did these people want to

1536
01:16:33,040 --> 01:16:35,519
Speaker 1: get in? Yea, I know, so we just had China

1537
01:16:35,560 --> 01:16:37,400
Speaker 1: the list while we're at it, just for fun. I mean,

1538
01:16:37,520 --> 01:16:39,679
Speaker 1: a lot of folks beyond very happy.

1539
01:16:39,760 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 4: Right now.

1540
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:41,639
Speaker 3: I am in the bridge Colby Camp.

1541
01:16:41,680 --> 01:16:44,040
Speaker 2: I am personally doubtful we could win a single war,

1542
01:16:44,160 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 2: let alone like five wars as a result of the

1543
01:16:46,360 --> 01:16:47,799
Speaker 2: current state of the US military.

1544
01:16:47,800 --> 01:16:50,439
Speaker 3: One of the reasons I'm so against a to Ukraine.

1545
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:54,320
Speaker 2: And they have these to them, there's the limitless number

1546
01:16:54,439 --> 01:16:57,680
Speaker 2: and the checkbook for what can happen, and also that

1547
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:01,559
Speaker 2: there's no idea that you have to irioritize certain things

1548
01:17:01,760 --> 01:17:06,599
Speaker 2: that actually advocate and work for your national interest. And uh,

1549
01:17:06,880 --> 01:17:11,160
Speaker 2: Nikki Haley, this is an attack on America, begging Prime

1550
01:17:11,200 --> 01:17:15,920
Speaker 2: Minister Natanyahu basically to strike Iran. I mean, Iran is

1551
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:20,600
Speaker 2: not some pitally little country. This is a massive country,

1552
01:17:21,000 --> 01:17:25,439
Speaker 2: huge population, huge army. I'm not saying that they're you know,

1553
01:17:25,600 --> 01:17:28,400
Speaker 2: like I'm not saying they're like a great power. But

1554
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 2: it's not a joke. And there's a reason why we

1555
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:34,640
Speaker 2: have not undertaken strikes on Iran. And one there's a

1556
01:17:34,680 --> 01:17:37,679
Speaker 2: reason why US military planners consider it a nightmare scenario

1557
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:41,240
Speaker 2: because it has a neighbor with Iraq. They have a

1558
01:17:41,320 --> 01:17:45,439
Speaker 2: proven military capability with the IRGC and others, and it

1559
01:17:45,479 --> 01:17:48,559
Speaker 2: would just cause even more chaos and destabilization in the region.

1560
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:52,160
Speaker 2: Same with Mike Pence, as you're saying, it's like to them,

1561
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:56,160
Speaker 2: everything stems back to Ukraine and then to Afghanistan. How

1562
01:17:56,200 --> 01:17:59,440
Speaker 2: about this. The world is messy and not everything is interconnected.

1563
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:01,720
Speaker 2: I hear the from the Ukraine first people all the

1564
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:03,360
Speaker 2: time too. They're like, well, we got to support Ukraine

1565
01:18:03,360 --> 01:18:05,000
Speaker 2: because that means we've got to support Taiwan.

1566
01:18:05,040 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 3: I'm like, we'll hold on a second.

1567
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:09,400
Speaker 2: They're actually completely disparate situations with different actors and different histories.

1568
01:18:09,479 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 3: Same thing here.

1569
01:18:10,280 --> 01:18:12,519
Speaker 2: It's like if this had happened in two thousand and five,

1570
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:14,280
Speaker 2: they would have been like, oh, this is a result

1571
01:18:14,320 --> 01:18:16,840
Speaker 2: of nine to eleven. They always have to try and

1572
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:19,599
Speaker 2: tie it to something else that's bigger, and going on

1573
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:23,160
Speaker 2: to try and justify even more military conflict in others.

1574
01:18:23,360 --> 01:18:25,680
Speaker 2: And it's like, okay, well, what has that policy gotten us?

1575
01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:28,559
Speaker 2: I ain't winning, and it certainly ain't. It certainly is

1576
01:18:28,600 --> 01:18:31,320
Speaker 2: not you know, peace or prosperity for them or for

1577
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:33,920
Speaker 2: us as a result of this. So look, I'm happy

1578
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:36,519
Speaker 2: that these voices are not prevailing right now in the

1579
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:40,000
Speaker 2: Republican Party, at least right now with the actual voters.

1580
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:42,879
Speaker 3: But this is the actually think in Washington.

1581
01:18:43,040 --> 01:18:47,200
Speaker 1: Well, and let's be clear, like there isn't actually any

1582
01:18:47,200 --> 01:18:53,000
Speaker 1: dissent on Israel within the Republican Party. Trump was incredibly hawkish,

1583
01:18:53,439 --> 01:18:56,240
Speaker 1: did everything that you know, Israel wanted him to do,

1584
01:18:57,160 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 1: incredibly hawkish towards Iran, took us out of around nuclear deal,

1585
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 1: assassinated costoms, a little money, all of these things. Right,

1586
01:19:04,400 --> 01:19:06,719
Speaker 1: So it's not like they're trying to paint this picture

1587
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:09,240
Speaker 1: like there's some descent here when there really isn't the

1588
01:19:09,280 --> 01:19:11,839
Speaker 1: only person who was a little bit different on Israel,

1589
01:19:12,120 --> 01:19:14,880
Speaker 1: who quickly like backtracked and tried to pretend like he

1590
01:19:15,000 --> 01:19:18,639
Speaker 1: wasn't actually different on Israel was Vivik Ramaswami, who made

1591
01:19:18,640 --> 01:19:20,759
Speaker 1: some comments about how he would like, in the fullness

1592
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:24,320
Speaker 1: of time, to not be supporting them militarily. Here he

1593
01:19:24,479 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 1: is with Sean Hannity getting questioned on those comments after

1594
01:19:28,000 --> 01:19:30,719
Speaker 1: Nikki Haley specifically attacked him over at Lit's take alism.

1595
01:19:30,880 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 11: You know, you said aid to Israel, our number one

1596
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:37,160
Speaker 11: ally only democracy in the region, should end in twenty

1597
01:19:37,240 --> 01:19:40,719
Speaker 11: twenty eight and that they should be integrated with their neighbors.

1598
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:42,360
Speaker 3: I was an exact quote.

1599
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:43,120
Speaker 12: Well hot to read it.

1600
01:19:43,120 --> 01:19:46,920
Speaker 3: That's actually yeah, I can tell you the exact quote.

1601
01:19:46,920 --> 01:19:48,760
Speaker 9: What I said is it would be a mark of

1602
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:52,280
Speaker 9: success if we ever got to a point in our

1603
01:19:52,320 --> 01:19:56,559
Speaker 9: relationship with Israel, if Israel never needed the United States's aid.

1604
01:19:56,920 --> 01:19:58,679
Speaker 3: And Sean, you know how politics is played.

1605
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 9: A lot of the other professional politicians who have been

1606
01:20:01,320 --> 01:20:03,880
Speaker 9: threatened by my rise have used that statement to say

1607
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:05,799
Speaker 9: that I would cut off aid to Israel.

1608
01:20:06,240 --> 01:20:07,080
Speaker 3: That's not correct.

1609
01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:10,160
Speaker 1: So in any case, he's like backtracking, and it just

1610
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:15,360
Speaker 1: shows you how sensitive this issue is, how influential. You know,

1611
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:17,400
Speaker 1: people for whom this is like their number one issue

1612
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:20,479
Speaker 1: are within the Republican Party, also within the Democratic Party.

1613
01:20:20,840 --> 01:20:24,559
Speaker 1: You've only very recently had a few voices in the

1614
01:20:24,560 --> 01:20:28,479
Speaker 1: Democratic Party that are even a little bit dissident on

1615
01:20:28,520 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 1: this issue and also want to talk about Palestinian lives

1616
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:35,599
Speaker 1: as well, and the unconscurable blockade and occupation apartheid conditions

1617
01:20:35,600 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 1: that have been imposed on these people for years and

1618
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:41,559
Speaker 1: years now. But within the Republican Party, you know, there's

1619
01:20:41,600 --> 01:20:44,080
Speaker 1: basically only one position that you can take on this issue,

1620
01:20:44,080 --> 01:20:45,800
Speaker 1: and it's being extraordinarily hawkish, well.

1621
01:20:45,680 --> 01:20:46,120
Speaker 3: A lot of it.

1622
01:20:46,160 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 2: Actually, it's interesting, you could think about it a little

1623
01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:50,759
Speaker 2: bit like the pro life issue. Some of the most

1624
01:20:51,040 --> 01:20:56,799
Speaker 2: vehement and like extreme supportes of Israel are Evangelical Christians.

1625
01:20:57,360 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 2: I'm not a biblical scholar, so I cannot even attempt

1626
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:01,720
Speaker 2: to explain it, but it just has something to do

1627
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:04,280
Speaker 2: with the end of days and why the state of

1628
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 2: Israel needs to exist and Christian Tians. There's also been

1629
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:10,519
Speaker 2: actually a very heavy attempt in Israel by the Israeli

1630
01:21:10,560 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 2: government to cultivate a lot of these people. They help

1631
01:21:13,240 --> 01:21:16,360
Speaker 2: fund a lot of trips back and forth. Yeah, if

1632
01:21:16,360 --> 01:21:17,800
Speaker 2: you're ever on a flight to Israel.

1633
01:21:17,640 --> 01:21:19,840
Speaker 3: It's funny. Half the people on the plane will be

1634
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:23,080
Speaker 3: Evangelical Christians, the other half will be Jews, and a

1635
01:21:23,080 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 3: lot of them are coming to visit some of the

1636
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:28,000
Speaker 3: holy sites, and a lot of it is funded by

1637
01:21:28,040 --> 01:21:31,080
Speaker 3: both churches, nonprofits, and of these other organizations which have

1638
01:21:31,160 --> 01:21:32,960
Speaker 3: not existed in it for a long time. They put

1639
01:21:32,960 --> 01:21:35,519
Speaker 3: an immense amount of pressure, an immense amount of pressure

1640
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:39,400
Speaker 3: on GOP lawmakers. You also, I think, have the old

1641
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:41,479
Speaker 3: nine to eleven tie in. It's very much.

1642
01:21:41,680 --> 01:21:43,840
Speaker 2: You know, a lot of people like to have black

1643
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:47,040
Speaker 2: and white thinking. It takes a long time to actually

1644
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:49,120
Speaker 2: separate that to think about it, and most people haven't

1645
01:21:49,160 --> 01:21:51,000
Speaker 2: been over there. They just look at the news and

1646
01:21:51,000 --> 01:21:53,920
Speaker 2: they're like, well, you know, one is allied with our

1647
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:57,000
Speaker 2: enemies and one always has our back. So they're like, okay,

1648
01:21:57,040 --> 01:21:59,400
Speaker 2: this is a simple equation. So that's how a lot

1649
01:21:59,439 --> 01:22:01,479
Speaker 2: of Americans are going to think about it. I mean,

1650
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:04,800
Speaker 2: I think there's a reason that the entire all opposition

1651
01:22:04,880 --> 01:22:10,599
Speaker 2: to Israel is predominantly in the US an elite left project,

1652
01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:14,759
Speaker 2: and it's because it comes from the university in academia class.

1653
01:22:15,000 --> 01:22:17,720
Speaker 3: Because they have more of an interest.

1654
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:20,080
Speaker 2: Obviously, they have probably more sympathies to like the ideas

1655
01:22:20,080 --> 01:22:22,439
Speaker 2: around human rights and all of that, but they have

1656
01:22:22,560 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 2: more of a like awareness generally of what's going on.

1657
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:29,720
Speaker 1: So I think that's a huge age divide here, that's true.

1658
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:31,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, huge age.

1659
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:33,479
Speaker 1: Divide and the politics on this, I mean that might

1660
01:22:33,520 --> 01:22:35,720
Speaker 1: be if you look at the numbers, one of the

1661
01:22:35,720 --> 01:22:40,120
Speaker 1: biggest generational gaps on the Democratic parties between older folks

1662
01:22:40,120 --> 01:22:42,719
Speaker 1: and younger folks in terms of the prism with which

1663
01:22:42,720 --> 01:22:45,599
Speaker 1: they view this conflict. And we were talking, you know,

1664
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:49,680
Speaker 1: I mean, in some ways it feels so depressing, the

1665
01:22:49,720 --> 01:22:53,479
Speaker 1: cycle of violence, the you know, just knowledge that there's

1666
01:22:53,520 --> 01:22:57,920
Speaker 1: no there's not going to be a simple, easy, straightforward solution.

1667
01:22:58,000 --> 01:23:00,160
Speaker 1: There just can't be at this point, after all, all

1668
01:23:00,200 --> 01:23:04,320
Speaker 1: of these decades of absolute horror. But you do see

1669
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:07,799
Speaker 1: even in the media coverage, you see, you know, different

1670
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,559
Speaker 1: perspectives you never would have seen before, even like the

1671
01:23:10,560 --> 01:23:13,679
Speaker 1: New York Times and CNN with voices you never would

1672
01:23:13,680 --> 01:23:16,320
Speaker 1: have heard before, you know, actually talking to Palestinians in

1673
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:19,840
Speaker 1: addition to the Israelis, who you know are suffering and

1674
01:23:20,240 --> 01:23:24,120
Speaker 1: grieving right now. So you do see some partly This

1675
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:28,360
Speaker 1: is a result directly of Netanyahu becoming very partisan during

1676
01:23:28,360 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 1: the Obama era, yes, and really throwing in with Republicans

1677
01:23:31,920 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 1: and actively trying to thwart Obama's re election. And that

1678
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:39,560
Speaker 1: has created a very different political dynamic within the Democratic

1679
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:42,439
Speaker 1: Party than used to exist. And I'm talking not at

1680
01:23:42,479 --> 01:23:46,360
Speaker 1: the elite level, where there's still mostly unanimity. Like I said,

1681
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:48,320
Speaker 1: with a few You've got Rashida Telip who is actually

1682
01:23:48,320 --> 01:23:51,240
Speaker 1: Palestinian American who is being blocked by the way from

1683
01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 1: visiting her gramma in Palestine by the Israeli government. So

1684
01:23:55,439 --> 01:23:59,120
Speaker 1: you have a few voice different voices on the Democratic side.

1685
01:23:59,160 --> 01:24:03,320
Speaker 1: But there's also it's been an overwhelming campaign to try

1686
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:05,920
Speaker 1: to defeat in primaries anyone who would have a different

1687
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:07,839
Speaker 1: view on how to approach this conflict whatsoever.

1688
01:24:07,960 --> 01:24:09,760
Speaker 2: That's a good point. I remember saying it at the time.

1689
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:11,439
Speaker 2: I've said it many times here on the show. Is

1690
01:24:11,479 --> 01:24:14,479
Speaker 2: probably the single biggest mistake bebe ever made in terms

1691
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:18,560
Speaker 2: of US political support. He aligned himself with an opposition

1692
01:24:18,640 --> 01:24:21,879
Speaker 2: party against the sitting president of the US, which allowed

1693
01:24:22,040 --> 01:24:24,559
Speaker 2: the Obama administration to say, look at this man coming

1694
01:24:24,600 --> 01:24:28,000
Speaker 2: to my soil to speak out against my policy in

1695
01:24:28,040 --> 01:24:33,200
Speaker 2: my Congress, you know, having that dramatically opened the Overton window,

1696
01:24:33,360 --> 01:24:35,640
Speaker 2: because when you were allowed to criticize Babe, then you

1697
01:24:35,680 --> 01:24:38,720
Speaker 2: were allowed to criticize Israeli policy. That led to some

1698
01:24:39,120 --> 01:24:41,439
Speaker 2: There was some moment at the end of the Obama

1699
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:45,600
Speaker 2: administration where they even allowed some UN Security Council resolutions

1700
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:48,320
Speaker 2: to pass that they never would have allowed to happen

1701
01:24:48,600 --> 01:24:51,639
Speaker 2: in the past. Even the Biden administration, I mean mostly

1702
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:54,320
Speaker 2: been one hundred percent pro Israel. The Israelis wouldn't say so,

1703
01:24:54,400 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 2: but not a huge departure, Yeah, from previous policible.

1704
01:24:56,960 --> 01:24:59,360
Speaker 1: Even they've had a few there's some friction between, like

1705
01:25:00,120 --> 01:25:03,719
Speaker 1: friction between between n Naho and Biden, but it hasn't

1706
01:25:03,720 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 1: really amounted to different policy. I pulled up the numbers

1707
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:08,719
Speaker 1: just to give people a sense of how this is becoming.

1708
01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:11,320
Speaker 1: There's starting to be a more partisan valance to this.

1709
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:15,599
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty three, Gallup asked, in the Middle East situation,

1710
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:18,720
Speaker 1: are your sympathies more with Israelis or more with the Palestinians.

1711
01:25:18,760 --> 01:25:23,400
Speaker 1: Obviously this is before the current situation and atrocities that

1712
01:25:23,400 --> 01:25:24,160
Speaker 1: were just committed.

1713
01:25:24,680 --> 01:25:28,839
Speaker 4: For Democrats. For the first time ever, more.

1714
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:31,920
Speaker 1: People said their sympathies were with Palestinians than Israelis. Forty

1715
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:35,640
Speaker 1: nine percent of Democrats said Palestinians, thirty eight percent said Israelis,

1716
01:25:35,960 --> 01:25:41,280
Speaker 1: and thirteen percent said neither are no opinion independence. They

1717
01:25:41,360 --> 01:25:44,639
Speaker 1: also increased their level of support with Palestinians, but they

1718
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 1: still overall have more sympathy towards Israelis's forty nine percent

1719
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:52,720
Speaker 1: sympathy towards Israelis, thirty two percent Palestinians, nineteen percent neither,

1720
01:25:52,760 --> 01:25:57,719
Speaker 1: both or no opinion. With Republicans very different landscape, seventy

1721
01:25:57,760 --> 01:26:01,479
Speaker 1: eight percent say their sympathies live dominantly with Israelis. Only

1722
01:26:01,560 --> 01:26:05,600
Speaker 1: eleven percent say they're more sympathetic towards Palestinians.

1723
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:09,080
Speaker 4: So, you know, that is a very new phenomenon.

1724
01:26:09,160 --> 01:26:12,360
Speaker 1: If you look back at you look back at like

1725
01:26:12,520 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 1: twenty ten, you had sixty percent of Democrats saying their

1726
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:22,080
Speaker 1: sympathies were more with Israelis, so in only thirteen percent

1727
01:26:22,320 --> 01:26:24,840
Speaker 1: saying that their sympathies were more with Palestinians. So there's

1728
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:27,280
Speaker 1: been a you know, there's been a really dramatic shift

1729
01:26:27,600 --> 01:26:31,920
Speaker 1: in terms of the level of the level of I

1730
01:26:31,960 --> 01:26:35,120
Speaker 1: guess support for Palestinian statehood and the complexity with the

1731
01:26:35,120 --> 01:26:37,680
Speaker 1: which the situation is viewed within the Democratic Party, and

1732
01:26:37,720 --> 01:26:39,360
Speaker 1: I do think a lot of that goes back to

1733
01:26:39,439 --> 01:26:41,200
Speaker 1: net Yahoo making it very partisan.

1734
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:46,519
Speaker 4: Now we're delighted to be joined by doctor Tree T. Parsi.

1735
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 1: He is executive vice president of the Quincy Institute and

1736
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:51,439
Speaker 1: a long time front of the show. Great to see

1737
01:26:51,520 --> 01:26:52,360
Speaker 1: ze our good Caeesar.

1738
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:53,720
Speaker 6: Good to be back with you, guys.

1739
01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:56,439
Speaker 1: So we have a lot of questions for you about

1740
01:26:56,520 --> 01:27:00,160
Speaker 1: the sort of geopolitical fallout here, the context within which

1741
01:27:00,200 --> 01:27:02,840
Speaker 1: these attacks occurred. But first I wanted to ask you

1742
01:27:02,880 --> 01:27:04,640
Speaker 1: about this report from the Wall Street Journal. Let's put

1743
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:06,120
Speaker 1: this up on the screen, guys. This is the second

1744
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:09,559
Speaker 1: piece here. They say that Iran helped plot the attack

1745
01:27:09,640 --> 01:27:12,800
Speaker 1: on Israel over several weeks. Islamic Revolutionary GUARDCORE gave the

1746
01:27:12,840 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 1: final go ahead last Monday in Beirut. Now what's really

1747
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:19,080
Speaker 1: interesting here is this is actually according to senior members

1748
01:27:19,120 --> 01:27:23,519
Speaker 1: of Hamas and Hezbola. However, US officials made it very

1749
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:26,519
Speaker 1: clear they had not seen any evidence of Tehran's involvement.

1750
01:27:27,000 --> 01:27:31,479
Speaker 1: And now you also have Israeli officials being very clear

1751
01:27:31,520 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 1: in saying they have not seen evidence of Iranian involvement here.

1752
01:27:35,520 --> 01:27:37,400
Speaker 1: So I wonder what your reaction is to the story

1753
01:27:37,439 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 1: and why this is significant and people should care.

1754
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:43,240
Speaker 11: Well, it's very significant because if you take the story

1755
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:47,120
Speaker 11: at face value, it was really pushing the United States

1756
01:27:47,280 --> 01:27:50,439
Speaker 11: towards getting involved in a larger war in the region,

1757
01:27:50,880 --> 01:27:54,719
Speaker 11: because if the Iranians were involved in that operational sense,

1758
01:27:55,720 --> 01:27:59,680
Speaker 11: you would have significant calls on the US side for

1759
01:27:59,720 --> 01:28:03,880
Speaker 11: acts against Iran. However, the story in my view is

1760
01:28:03,960 --> 01:28:06,680
Speaker 11: not particularly credible. As you mentioned, this is not the

1761
01:28:06,960 --> 01:28:10,200
Speaker 11: position shared by the US government. It's also not shared

1762
01:28:10,240 --> 01:28:13,519
Speaker 11: by the Israeli government, with the idea of spokesperson coming

1763
01:28:13,560 --> 01:28:15,880
Speaker 11: out and saying that they don't see evidence for it,

1764
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:18,519
Speaker 11: which is quite a statement coming from these Raelis who

1765
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:22,120
Speaker 11: otherwise are quite keen on pointing out Iran's involvement in

1766
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:25,759
Speaker 11: various things. But also because I think that the story

1767
01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:29,759
Speaker 11: itself I find really difficult to digest. So for instance,

1768
01:28:29,840 --> 01:28:34,920
Speaker 11: they say that there's been biweekly meetings since August in Beirut,

1769
01:28:35,080 --> 01:28:37,080
Speaker 11: which is a place room in which the Israelis have

1770
01:28:37,120 --> 01:28:42,679
Speaker 11: excellent intelligence, of course, between senior leaders of Hamas Islamic Jihad,

1771
01:28:42,800 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 11: Hezbolah and Yvan, including on two occasions, the Ivanian foreign

1772
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:51,679
Speaker 11: minister attending. I mean, these are the very same people

1773
01:28:51,760 --> 01:28:54,680
Speaker 11: the Israeli intelligence would keep a very very close eye on.

1774
01:28:55,160 --> 01:28:59,160
Speaker 11: How could they have bi weekly meetings since August about

1775
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:02,560
Speaker 11: this issue plan and these Raelies never finding out It

1776
01:29:02,720 --> 01:29:06,640
Speaker 11: just sounds to me quite difficult to believe. So I

1777
01:29:06,680 --> 01:29:09,360
Speaker 11: think there's a lot of elements of this that raises

1778
01:29:09,560 --> 01:29:12,439
Speaker 11: question marks as to the accuracy of this story.

1779
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:13,720
Speaker 6: On top of that, the.

1780
01:29:14,640 --> 01:29:17,760
Speaker 11: Former boss of one of the reporters byline in that

1781
01:29:17,920 --> 01:29:20,360
Speaker 11: story has come out and said that he fired her

1782
01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:24,080
Speaker 11: from her earlier position in Reuters for inventing stories. So

1783
01:29:24,520 --> 01:29:26,760
Speaker 11: I think we should deal it with a bit of

1784
01:29:26,960 --> 01:29:29,600
Speaker 11: grain of salt and really investigate further. Having said that,

1785
01:29:29,680 --> 01:29:32,120
Speaker 11: let me also say this. I think it is quite

1786
01:29:32,240 --> 01:29:35,960
Speaker 11: clear that the Iranians have been involved in army and

1787
01:29:36,080 --> 01:29:41,360
Speaker 11: training hamas. That is different from them being involved operationally

1788
01:29:41,560 --> 01:29:44,400
Speaker 11: in this attack green lighting attack. Those are very very

1789
01:29:44,479 --> 01:29:48,559
Speaker 11: different things. Moreover, we should also be clear that Tehran

1790
01:29:48,800 --> 01:29:52,080
Speaker 11: probably wants the world to believe that they had a

1791
01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:55,160
Speaker 11: bigger role in this than what they actually did, because

1792
01:29:55,200 --> 01:29:59,599
Speaker 11: from their perspective, this gives them credibility amongst the Arab

1793
01:29:59,680 --> 01:30:03,080
Speaker 11: street in the vision, which is their audience. Their audience

1794
01:30:03,200 --> 01:30:06,519
Speaker 11: is not Europe or the United States. So even when

1795
01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:08,920
Speaker 11: they have not been involved in things, they like the

1796
01:30:09,040 --> 01:30:12,680
Speaker 11: idea that the world thinks they were involved because it

1797
01:30:12,800 --> 01:30:16,559
Speaker 11: gives them an edge in their competition with Saudi Arabia

1798
01:30:16,640 --> 01:30:19,920
Speaker 11: and other governments in the region by them claiming to

1799
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:22,800
Speaker 11: stand and raising the Palestinian flag.

1800
01:30:23,280 --> 01:30:26,719
Speaker 3: Wow, very important context, I think on that story.

1801
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:30,400
Speaker 2: We also, though, have seen elements of the former US

1802
01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:35,120
Speaker 2: officials and others beginning to blame Iran for the attack,

1803
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 2: possibly setting up for possible US involvement. Here's the former

1804
01:30:38,680 --> 01:30:40,960
Speaker 2: Director of National Intelligence saying that, and I want to

1805
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:41,599
Speaker 2: get your reaction.

1806
01:30:42,200 --> 01:30:45,880
Speaker 12: My reaction, Kayley, is as it has been from day one.

1807
01:30:46,080 --> 01:30:49,680
Speaker 12: Those words ring hollow from the Biden administration. They're disingenuous

1808
01:30:50,840 --> 01:30:54,120
Speaker 12: at best. Look, it's not even just this six billion

1809
01:30:54,200 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 12: dollars which which clearly is going to further enrich Iran.

1810
01:30:59,479 --> 01:31:01,960
Speaker 12: It's close sort of sixty billion dollars if you look

1811
01:31:02,000 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 12: at what the Biden administration has done to help this

1812
01:31:05,640 --> 01:31:11,960
Speaker 12: Islamic terrorist regime in Iran by stop enforcing sanctions, by

1813
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:17,320
Speaker 12: lifting restrictions, by allowing Iranian oil to increase by six

1814
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:19,840
Speaker 12: hundred and fifty percent over the last two years, from

1815
01:31:19,840 --> 01:31:23,360
Speaker 12: four hundred thousand barrels of oil a day to three

1816
01:31:24,720 --> 01:31:27,439
Speaker 12: million barrels of oil a day. All of this has

1817
01:31:28,120 --> 01:31:32,200
Speaker 12: strengthened an Iranian regime that you know, Kayley, we left

1818
01:31:33,280 --> 01:31:36,160
Speaker 12: weaker and poorer than it had been in the last

1819
01:31:36,280 --> 01:31:40,720
Speaker 12: twenty years, and instead they've largely been funded by the

1820
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:44,960
Speaker 12: Biden Administration's actions and allowing them to strengthen their position

1821
01:31:45,080 --> 01:31:47,280
Speaker 12: and to create this kind of mayhem. I don't think

1822
01:31:47,320 --> 01:31:51,519
Speaker 12: it's unfair Kaylee, to say that, you know, Iran funded

1823
01:31:51,560 --> 01:31:55,759
Speaker 12: Hamas here, but the Biden administration helped fund Iran.

1824
01:31:56,160 --> 01:31:59,600
Speaker 2: This is the basically coalescing position of a lot of

1825
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:02,400
Speaker 2: the repub Party. So I'm curious, just back from fiction,

1826
01:32:02,520 --> 01:32:03,120
Speaker 2: what do you make of that.

1827
01:32:04,400 --> 01:32:06,720
Speaker 6: Well, there's quite a lot of fiction there.

1828
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:08,760
Speaker 11: But I think, first of all, the larger context here

1829
01:32:08,880 --> 01:32:13,040
Speaker 11: is that, unfortunately, these are really serious issues and in

1830
01:32:13,280 --> 01:32:17,240
Speaker 11: Washington right now, we're turning everything into political football.

1831
01:32:18,200 --> 01:32:20,760
Speaker 6: This is an attempt to blame everything on the Biden administration.

1832
01:32:20,960 --> 01:32:23,040
Speaker 11: You guys know me. I've been on the show many times.

1833
01:32:23,160 --> 01:32:26,400
Speaker 11: I have plenty of critiques of the Biden administration and

1834
01:32:26,520 --> 01:32:29,200
Speaker 11: I do so today as well, in part of handling

1835
01:32:29,280 --> 01:32:31,920
Speaker 11: this and trying to push for a Saudi U Israelian

1836
01:32:31,960 --> 01:32:35,120
Speaker 11: normalization deal, which I think, frankly has contributed to some

1837
01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:38,680
Speaker 11: of the violence that we're seeing right now. But this

1838
01:32:39,160 --> 01:32:41,760
Speaker 11: is just filled with a lot of fiction. First of all,

1839
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:44,200
Speaker 11: the six billion dollars sits in a bank in Kutar.

1840
01:32:45,280 --> 01:32:48,280
Speaker 11: Essentially the United States decide what type of food and

1841
01:32:48,400 --> 01:32:51,680
Speaker 11: medicine the Audians can buy. It's actually a very humiliating

1842
01:32:51,760 --> 01:32:54,599
Speaker 11: deal in the sense that the Aunians cannot even spend

1843
01:32:54,640 --> 01:32:57,200
Speaker 11: their money as they want to, but they have to

1844
01:32:57,240 --> 01:32:59,280
Speaker 11: get approval from the United States to do so.

1845
01:33:00,040 --> 01:33:01,160
Speaker 6: In terms of three.

1846
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:05,080
Speaker 11: Million barrels of oily day, I've never heard that number.

1847
01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:08,599
Speaker 11: I've heard something up to two. And it's absolutely true

1848
01:33:09,080 --> 01:33:12,360
Speaker 11: that as a result of an effort to de escalate,

1849
01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:17,040
Speaker 11: the Biden administration I don't think has been implementing some

1850
01:33:17,240 --> 01:33:20,280
Speaker 11: of Trump's sanctions as harshly as Trump was. But it's

1851
01:33:20,320 --> 01:33:23,800
Speaker 11: also in the context of the Ukraine War, in which

1852
01:33:24,080 --> 01:33:27,639
Speaker 11: pursuing the implementation of that would further increase oil prices

1853
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:29,800
Speaker 11: at a time when the Biden administration actually has an

1854
01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:33,679
Speaker 11: interest and lowering the old prices because of the impact

1855
01:33:33,720 --> 01:33:35,680
Speaker 11: you will have on the US economy. And this is

1856
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:38,000
Speaker 11: one of those things that I think the Trump administration

1857
01:33:38,120 --> 01:33:40,280
Speaker 11: didn't take into account in the same way because it

1858
01:33:40,360 --> 01:33:44,160
Speaker 11: was partly in a different geopolitical context. The idea then

1859
01:33:44,200 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 11: to go all the way of saying that, you know,

1860
01:33:46,360 --> 01:33:49,880
Speaker 11: the Biden administration is funding Iran, which then is funding

1861
01:33:49,920 --> 01:33:53,800
Speaker 11: Hamas is really a masterful way of connecting dots that

1862
01:33:53,880 --> 01:33:56,800
Speaker 11: doesn't exist in order to score a political point here

1863
01:33:56,880 --> 01:34:01,839
Speaker 11: in Washington, but that unfortunately Kahan devis stating geopolitical effects

1864
01:34:01,920 --> 01:34:04,519
Speaker 11: not only in the region but for the United States itself,

1865
01:34:04,640 --> 01:34:07,240
Speaker 11: because this is these kind of narratives that can push

1866
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:10,880
Speaker 11: the United States wrongfully into a conflict that the US

1867
01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:11,880
Speaker 11: should not be involved in.

1868
01:34:12,400 --> 01:34:16,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've already seen Dean Phillips, who's a Democratic congressman,

1869
01:34:16,120 --> 01:34:18,800
Speaker 1: effectively calling for war with Iron and Lindsay Graham re

1870
01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:23,559
Speaker 1: upping his practical constant desire for war with Iran.

1871
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:25,840
Speaker 4: So these are very real concerns right now.

1872
01:34:26,479 --> 01:34:28,840
Speaker 1: And doctor Parci, part of why we wanted to have

1873
01:34:29,000 --> 01:34:33,160
Speaker 1: you on is because even when the Abraham Accords were

1874
01:34:33,400 --> 01:34:35,479
Speaker 1: you know, very popular and they had a lot of

1875
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:39,120
Speaker 1: attraction with it Washington, DC. You were raising some alarms

1876
01:34:39,200 --> 01:34:42,840
Speaker 1: about what they left out and some of the shortcomings

1877
01:34:43,240 --> 01:34:45,479
Speaker 1: of them. And now, as you alluded to, there's also

1878
01:34:45,560 --> 01:34:48,000
Speaker 1: this attempt from the Biden administration. Abraham Accords were under

1879
01:34:48,040 --> 01:34:50,560
Speaker 1: the Trump administration. Under the Biden administration, you now have

1880
01:34:50,880 --> 01:34:54,759
Speaker 1: a similarly veined attempt to normalize relations between Saudi Arabia

1881
01:34:54,760 --> 01:34:59,439
Speaker 1: and Israel that effectively ignored and invisibilized what was going

1882
01:34:59,479 --> 01:35:02,400
Speaker 1: on here in Palestine. Can you take us through those

1883
01:35:02,479 --> 01:35:05,479
Speaker 1: pieces and why you said that the Saudi normalization in

1884
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:08,200
Speaker 1: particular may have contributed to the timing of these attacks.

1885
01:35:10,000 --> 01:35:10,640
Speaker 6: Absolutely so.

1886
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:12,560
Speaker 11: As you remember, I was on the show and I

1887
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:15,120
Speaker 11: wrote about this when the Abram Court first came out,

1888
01:35:15,200 --> 01:35:17,120
Speaker 11: and was this belief that this is some sort of

1889
01:35:17,160 --> 01:35:21,120
Speaker 11: a peace deal, even though Sad the UAE in Israel

1890
01:35:21,160 --> 01:35:24,439
Speaker 11: had never been at war. That very core of this

1891
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:29,000
Speaker 11: agreement was the belief that the Palestinian issue no longer

1892
01:35:29,280 --> 01:35:32,519
Speaker 11: mattered and that one could then devise a deal that

1893
01:35:32,600 --> 01:35:36,760
Speaker 11: would move beyond the Palestinian issue. This is specific terminology

1894
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:40,000
Speaker 11: that was used by Jarrett Kushner at the time, and

1895
01:35:40,160 --> 01:35:43,840
Speaker 11: this was partly born out of the reality that after

1896
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:48,439
Speaker 11: the Arab Spring, the Palestinian issue wasn't as potent of

1897
01:35:48,560 --> 01:35:50,760
Speaker 11: a force in the Arab world as it had been

1898
01:35:50,840 --> 01:35:54,280
Speaker 11: earlier prior to the Arab Spring, but to believe that

1899
01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:57,200
Speaker 11: that was a permanent state and the permanent shift was

1900
01:35:57,240 --> 01:36:02,200
Speaker 11: a huge mistake. And by Asen moving forward with the

1901
01:36:02,320 --> 01:36:05,960
Speaker 11: Europeans forgetting the Palestinians, the United States long having forgotten

1902
01:36:06,000 --> 01:36:09,800
Speaker 11: the Palestinians, and now some Arab countries forgetting the Palatians,

1903
01:36:09,840 --> 01:36:12,200
Speaker 11: and the belief was created that the world had forgotten

1904
01:36:12,240 --> 01:36:14,680
Speaker 11: the Palestinians, but there was one element that had not

1905
01:36:14,800 --> 01:36:16,080
Speaker 11: forgotten the Palestinians.

1906
01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:17,560
Speaker 6: That was the Palestinians.

1907
01:36:17,840 --> 01:36:21,680
Speaker 11: They distill believed themselves they still were suffering on their occupation,

1908
01:36:21,800 --> 01:36:26,280
Speaker 11: they were still suffering from a tremendous and increasingly intensified repression,

1909
01:36:27,160 --> 01:36:30,920
Speaker 11: and leaving them with that in that situation in which

1910
01:36:31,080 --> 01:36:36,479
Speaker 11: essentially a narrative was created amongst the Palestinians that negotiations

1911
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:38,840
Speaker 11: and peace process had actually brought them to a worse

1912
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:42,840
Speaker 11: position over the course of the last thirty years, just

1913
01:36:43,400 --> 01:36:49,519
Speaker 11: objectively dramatically increased the likelihood that at some point their

1914
01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:53,519
Speaker 11: struggle would shift towards a much much more militant and

1915
01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:58,799
Speaker 11: violent resistance than what we had seen during the Oslo process.

1916
01:36:58,960 --> 01:37:01,439
Speaker 11: This is not to condone it, this is not to

1917
01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:04,400
Speaker 11: justify it. This is just to say this is a reality.

1918
01:37:04,520 --> 01:37:07,840
Speaker 11: Some of us called it out before this happened, and

1919
01:37:07,960 --> 01:37:10,400
Speaker 11: I think it's a reminder to us, particularly in the

1920
01:37:10,479 --> 01:37:13,320
Speaker 11: context of how the narrative on Ukraine has developed in

1921
01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:16,000
Speaker 11: the United States, that if there is this belief that,

1922
01:37:16,080 --> 01:37:20,240
Speaker 11: of course the Ukrainians have to have agency, etc. To

1923
01:37:20,320 --> 01:37:22,760
Speaker 11: at the same time deprive the Palestinians of any of

1924
01:37:22,840 --> 01:37:26,000
Speaker 11: such agency, then we should not be surprised if they

1925
01:37:26,120 --> 01:37:30,479
Speaker 11: then try to manifest that agency in a completely different way. Again,

1926
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:32,720
Speaker 11: this is not to justify it. So this is part

1927
01:37:32,760 --> 01:37:35,560
Speaker 11: of the reason why a lot of people in the

1928
01:37:35,640 --> 01:37:38,479
Speaker 11: region as well as elsewhere, we're very concerned about this

1929
01:37:38,680 --> 01:37:44,400
Speaker 11: because essentially it sought to uninvent or it's not the

1930
01:37:44,439 --> 01:37:47,599
Speaker 11: wrong way word. Essentially, it sought to create a scenario

1931
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:51,680
Speaker 11: in which the Palestinians were permanently irrelevant, and that was

1932
01:37:52,120 --> 01:37:56,000
Speaker 11: a dramatically dangerous bet that is now backfiring in a

1933
01:37:56,200 --> 01:37:57,000
Speaker 11: horrific way.

1934
01:37:57,600 --> 01:37:59,799
Speaker 2: My last thing for you, sir, is about the idea

1935
01:37:59,840 --> 01:38:02,720
Speaker 2: of possibility that in Israel where they're very afraid of

1936
01:38:02,800 --> 01:38:06,200
Speaker 2: a two front war of Hezbola and then potential embroilment

1937
01:38:06,320 --> 01:38:09,559
Speaker 2: with Iran. How should people what context can you get

1938
01:38:09,600 --> 01:38:11,800
Speaker 2: with them about what that might look like and what

1939
01:38:11,880 --> 01:38:14,560
Speaker 2: the trigger points would be for a broader conflict that

1940
01:38:14,600 --> 01:38:16,519
Speaker 2: we would look like outside of the Gaza strip.

1941
01:38:17,479 --> 01:38:20,120
Speaker 11: I think, first of all, as an absolutely to the

1942
01:38:20,200 --> 01:38:22,519
Speaker 11: point question, it's a very important question. I think it's

1943
01:38:22,640 --> 01:38:25,479
Speaker 11: part of the reason why the Israelis themselves are not

1944
01:38:25,640 --> 01:38:27,759
Speaker 11: going out there and saying that they don't see Iran's

1945
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:30,760
Speaker 11: operational involvement in this, because if they were to go

1946
01:38:30,840 --> 01:38:34,519
Speaker 11: out and say that and incentivize Hisbola to actually get

1947
01:38:34,520 --> 01:38:36,720
Speaker 11: into the fight, then Israel would be facing a two

1948
01:38:36,840 --> 01:38:40,160
Speaker 11: front war. Moreover, the fact that Hebela has not been

1949
01:38:40,240 --> 01:38:43,240
Speaker 11: part of this war so far, it's further indication that

1950
01:38:43,400 --> 01:38:46,479
Speaker 11: this probably was not something that the Iranians were involved

1951
01:38:46,520 --> 01:38:48,920
Speaker 11: in designing, because if they wanted to do something to

1952
01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:51,519
Speaker 11: really go after these Raelis, they would probably have done

1953
01:38:51,560 --> 01:38:56,000
Speaker 11: it in a manner that was more detrimental to the

1954
01:38:56,080 --> 01:38:58,600
Speaker 11: Israelis by creating that two front war. But if that

1955
01:38:58,720 --> 01:39:01,200
Speaker 11: were to happen, it would be stating situation for the

1956
01:39:01,280 --> 01:39:04,280
Speaker 11: israelis both hamas and has both our much better armed.

1957
01:39:04,280 --> 01:39:10,479
Speaker 11: There's been this false belief that Israel's technological superiority create

1958
01:39:11,200 --> 01:39:16,200
Speaker 11: a permanent imbalance between the two sides, and as a result,

1959
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:21,920
Speaker 11: that they simply could manage permanent occupation because these Palestinians

1960
01:39:21,960 --> 01:39:24,479
Speaker 11: could not do anything about it. We've now seen that

1961
01:39:24,560 --> 01:39:28,160
Speaker 11: the Palaestinis have managed to catch up technologically and really

1962
01:39:28,280 --> 01:39:31,400
Speaker 11: surprised not just the Israeli military but also the Israeli

1963
01:39:31,479 --> 01:39:35,120
Speaker 11: intelligence services. So in that context, this is something that

1964
01:39:35,200 --> 01:39:36,800
Speaker 11: the Israelis should be very worried about.

1965
01:39:37,040 --> 01:39:39,680
Speaker 1: Well, doctor Parsi, it is always so great to have

1966
01:39:39,880 --> 01:39:43,200
Speaker 1: all of your thoughts and well considered commentary here as

1967
01:39:43,240 --> 01:39:45,000
Speaker 1: we sort through a very complex situation.

1968
01:39:45,200 --> 01:39:46,799
Speaker 4: Thank you so much for joining us as always.

1969
01:39:46,880 --> 01:39:48,760
Speaker 6: Thank you, sir, thank you so much for having me

1970
01:39:48,960 --> 01:39:49,479
Speaker 6: appreciate it.

1971
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:50,000
Speaker 1: Ja.

1972
01:39:50,280 --> 01:39:51,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I guess the last thing I will

1973
01:39:51,800 --> 01:39:53,800
Speaker 2: say is I'm just I think we should all gird

1974
01:39:53,880 --> 01:39:56,280
Speaker 2: ourselves for this is going to be a long conflict.

1975
01:39:56,680 --> 01:39:58,519
Speaker 2: I think unfortunately a lot of people are going to die.

1976
01:39:59,160 --> 01:40:02,240
Speaker 2: I think things will be less safe. We're going to

1977
01:40:02,280 --> 01:40:04,040
Speaker 2: do our best to sift through a lot of this information.

1978
01:40:04,080 --> 01:40:06,479
Speaker 2: It's very very difficult. We're not on the ground in Israel.

1979
01:40:07,040 --> 01:40:08,519
Speaker 2: Even those who are on the ground, we don't know

1980
01:40:08,600 --> 01:40:10,400
Speaker 2: what they're able to show us. You know, they can

1981
01:40:10,439 --> 01:40:12,080
Speaker 2: only give us a small picture. We're doing our best

1982
01:40:12,120 --> 01:40:14,880
Speaker 2: to verify all of the information, and you know, I

1983
01:40:15,000 --> 01:40:18,599
Speaker 2: just hope that something can actually come, something can possibly

1984
01:40:18,680 --> 01:40:20,479
Speaker 2: prevent a tremendous loss of life.

1985
01:40:20,680 --> 01:40:21,800
Speaker 3: I've got personal friends.

1986
01:40:21,880 --> 01:40:23,360
Speaker 2: One of my best friends who was in high school

1987
01:40:23,439 --> 01:40:25,720
Speaker 2: was Palaestinium, was one of those people who wouldn't even

1988
01:40:25,760 --> 01:40:28,040
Speaker 2: say the name Israel. One of my childhood best friends

1989
01:40:28,120 --> 01:40:32,040
Speaker 2: is Israeli currently you know who served in the IDF.

1990
01:40:32,200 --> 01:40:34,679
Speaker 3: I've known some people on a human.

1991
01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:37,519
Speaker 2: Level on both sides of this, which it's both difficult,

1992
01:40:37,520 --> 01:40:39,479
Speaker 2: but I also I think it was a blessing to

1993
01:40:39,520 --> 01:40:41,479
Speaker 2: be able to look at it, especially when stuff like

1994
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:43,080
Speaker 2: this happens, and to try and be able to help

1995
01:40:43,160 --> 01:40:44,120
Speaker 2: everybody sort through all of this.

1996
01:40:44,160 --> 01:40:45,200
Speaker 3: I know it's very, very difficult.

1997
01:40:45,200 --> 01:40:46,439
Speaker 2: I also know there's a lot of people out there

1998
01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:48,720
Speaker 2: for this is such an emotional issue, and look, we're

1999
01:40:48,760 --> 01:40:51,120
Speaker 2: doing our best. We're just that's all we can tell you.

2000
01:40:51,320 --> 01:40:53,320
Speaker 2: We are absolutely trying to sift through all of this.

2001
01:40:53,640 --> 01:40:55,840
Speaker 2: Give you our perspective. None of this is from a

2002
01:40:55,920 --> 01:40:56,639
Speaker 2: place of malice.

2003
01:40:56,840 --> 01:40:59,680
Speaker 3: And if you take offense, that's okay, because we're still

2004
01:40:59,680 --> 01:41:01,840
Speaker 3: going to be I will still be here the next day. Yeah.

2005
01:41:01,840 --> 01:41:03,920
Speaker 1: If there is one thing I could say, it's to

2006
01:41:04,080 --> 01:41:09,600
Speaker 1: just implore people to value all life equally, to have

2007
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:13,120
Speaker 1: as much Karen concern for Palestinian life as we see

2008
01:41:13,160 --> 01:41:15,599
Speaker 1: whatever the Israeli response has been, which we're already getting

2009
01:41:15,600 --> 01:41:19,280
Speaker 1: a taste of with this complete siege, with calling Palestinians animals,

2010
01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:22,920
Speaker 1: to have as much Karen concern for innocent Palestinian life

2011
01:41:23,439 --> 01:41:27,120
Speaker 1: as you do for innocent Israeli life. And there was

2012
01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:29,920
Speaker 1: a quote, this was actually surprisingly in the New York Times,

2013
01:41:30,439 --> 01:41:33,639
Speaker 1: from a woman who's a Palestinian lawyer who lives in Israel,

2014
01:41:34,120 --> 01:41:36,920
Speaker 1: and she said, if there's one lesson of this is

2015
01:41:37,040 --> 01:41:39,720
Speaker 1: not that this was a security failure. It was a

2016
01:41:39,840 --> 01:41:43,519
Speaker 1: failure on the part of the world to address the conflict.

2017
01:41:43,720 --> 01:41:46,040
Speaker 1: Every day is violent, We wake up to violence, we

2018
01:41:46,200 --> 01:41:50,759
Speaker 1: go to bed, to violence against Palestinians. Again, nothing justifies

2019
01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:55,200
Speaker 1: the slaughter of innocent civilians, including women and children, not

2020
01:41:55,439 --> 01:41:57,360
Speaker 1: when it's done by Hamas and not when it is

2021
01:41:57,439 --> 01:42:01,280
Speaker 1: done by Israel. But you will ever have true peace

2022
01:42:01,439 --> 01:42:05,040
Speaker 1: and security so long as you have such oppression, and

2023
01:42:05,160 --> 01:42:06,960
Speaker 1: so long as you are trying to keep millions of

2024
01:42:07,040 --> 01:42:11,400
Speaker 1: people locked in a cage effectively in an open air prison,

2025
01:42:12,040 --> 01:42:15,360
Speaker 1: and their dreams and hopes and aspirations crushed. You have

2026
01:42:15,439 --> 01:42:18,400
Speaker 1: the biggest military in the world, the most intrusive surveillance

2027
01:42:18,439 --> 01:42:21,599
Speaker 1: state in the world. You have the biggest, baddest friends

2028
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:23,840
Speaker 1: in the United States and the world. But there is

2029
01:42:23,920 --> 01:42:27,200
Speaker 1: no substitute for a real, lasting, and just peace. And

2030
01:42:27,360 --> 01:42:30,800
Speaker 1: I hope that in some way we can move towards

2031
01:42:30,840 --> 01:42:31,639
Speaker 1: those ends eventually.

2032
01:42:31,760 --> 01:42:32,400
Speaker 3: I hope so too.

2033
01:42:32,720 --> 01:42:34,920
Speaker 2: We're going to keep everybody updated all throughout the week.

2034
01:42:35,000 --> 01:42:37,479
Speaker 2: We can expect more things like this. We're going to

2035
01:42:37,520 --> 01:42:38,880
Speaker 2: do our best, and we'll see you all tomorrow.