Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a
Speaker 1: cult or a high control group.
Speaker 2: Or if you've had experience with manipulation or abuse the
Speaker 2: power that you'd like to share.
Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three
Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.
Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.
Speaker 1: Or showed us an email at trust Me pod at
Speaker 1: gmail dot com.
Speaker 3: Trust me, Trust for trust me. I'm like a swat person.
Speaker 3: I've never lived to you never a live.
Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers, don't.
Speaker 4: Welcome to trust Me.
Speaker 2: The podcast about cults, extreme belief and manipulation from two
Speaker 2: individual flames who've actually experienced it. I am Lola Blanc
Speaker 2: and Megan Elizabeth is out this week, but do not
Speaker 2: fear she is in the rest of this interview. Speaking
Speaker 2: of which today is part two of our interview with Demetria,
Speaker 2: survivor of Oregon's New age cult called Twin Ray.
Speaker 4: This week, she'll tell us more about the wild.
Speaker 2: Claims that the leaders, Shaquina and Sonata g made about
Speaker 2: their mystical abilities and backgrounds, how deeply rooted the culture
Speaker 2: of self blame was, including blaming one woman for her
Speaker 2: own cancer and the massive property they purchased in Oregon, financed.
Speaker 4: By of course, their followers.
Speaker 2: We'll talk about the dangers of the drugs that they
Speaker 2: were giving people when the cracks began to form in
Speaker 2: her belief system, and how important it was for her
Speaker 2: to let herself feel her rage. And before we get
Speaker 2: into part two with Demetria, I'm gonna quickly have a
Speaker 2: cultiest thing. I have no one to tell it to,
Speaker 2: so I'm gonna tell it to myself. So this week
Speaker 2: there was an interview published in the Times with a
Speaker 2: woman named Prem Saragam who was a member of the
Speaker 2: same cult that the Netflix series Wild Wild Country is about.
Speaker 2: Now that's the Rashnie She's led by Bagwan Rajnisch, who's
Speaker 2: also known as oh Show. So we actually mentioned Oshow
Speaker 2: in this interview. I believe every time you see a
Speaker 2: quote by some wise man named Oshow, it's actually this
Speaker 2: cult leader that this woman was in. So this docu
Speaker 2: series was apparently co directed by another woman who was
Speaker 2: in the Rashni she cult growing up.
Speaker 4: And what these women are coming forward about.
Speaker 2: There are three women apparently that are the subject of
Speaker 2: this doc What they're coming forward about is how the Rahnie.
Speaker 2: She's on top of trying to poison an entire town
Speaker 2: for political reasons. Watch Weabla Country if you haven't.
Speaker 4: It's great.
Speaker 2: But in addition to that, there was this whole other
Speaker 2: horrible facet to the group, which is sexual abuse of children.
Speaker 2: And apparently all three of these women did experience quite
Speaker 2: a great deal of sexual abuse by adults when they
Speaker 2: were children, and this was enabled and even encouraged by
Speaker 2: the group because apparently there's some stuff about how children
Speaker 2: should be exposed to sexuality because it's good for them
Speaker 2: or something.
Speaker 4: Anyway, the story is really horrific.
Speaker 2: If you want to read the article, it's called My
Speaker 2: years in a cult that groomed children to have sex
Speaker 2: with adults, and then the sort of sub headline, what
Speaker 2: do you call that?
Speaker 3: Naim?
Speaker 4: The subtitle says.
Speaker 2: Prem Sargam was six when her parents became followers of
Speaker 2: Baguan Shri Reshniche, seven when her abuse became, and twelve
Speaker 2: when she was first raped. The cult systematic sexualization of
Speaker 2: children has never been made public until now. It's not
Speaker 2: surprising given how many cults in this era were sexualizing
Speaker 2: and normalizing the sexual abuse of children, but it is
Speaker 2: just it's sad and horrible every time. It's obviously there's
Speaker 2: kind of nothing worse than that. So that is a
Speaker 2: tragic thing to learn about. But I am looking forward
Speaker 2: to actually watching the docuseries and kind of getting these
Speaker 2: stories firsthand and learning about what they experienced. Because on
Speaker 2: the surface, you know, this cult was very like fun.
Speaker 3: To look at.
Speaker 4: Like they all wore red.
Speaker 2: They had to wear the colors of the sunset, I believe,
Speaker 2: so they all wore like red, pink, orange, purple, so
Speaker 2: they look very esthetically pleasing when you look at these
Speaker 2: old images of them. I'm going to pull up some
Speaker 2: pictures right now for my own interest. Oh yeah, it's
Speaker 2: like these like stunning photos of these like big groups
Speaker 2: of people and they're all in red or like tones
Speaker 2: of red, you know. And at the time, it was
Speaker 2: this really exciting movement, I think, and a lot of
Speaker 2: his teachings, which you know are regurgitated Eastern philosophy, but
Speaker 2: a lot of his teachings really resonated with people and
Speaker 2: continued today.
Speaker 4: But of course, underneath.
Speaker 2: The surface of all of those esthetically pleasing cult images
Speaker 2: that you see, there were these really discussing things going
Speaker 2: on as well, and you know, they tried to poison
Speaker 2: a town. It's not like they were great to begin with,
Speaker 2: but it was just worse than we thought. So that
Speaker 2: is the cult news of the week. There's obviously so
Speaker 2: much more going on in the world. Everything's a cult.
Speaker 2: Everyone's in a cult. But you know, there's one in
Speaker 2: particular that we're going to talk about today again, and
Speaker 2: I think it's a really important one to talk about
Speaker 2: because there are so many cults like this happening right
Speaker 2: now online, New age cults preying on people who are
Speaker 2: looking for some new form of spirituality, who have an
Speaker 2: open mind, and who really just want a community, and
Speaker 2: they happen to find it online and you know, like
Speaker 2: me with my social media seminar that I've been purchasing
Speaker 2: too many of. Once you kind of get a taste
Speaker 2: of something and it seems to be talking about something
Speaker 2: that you find compelling you to kind of keep going,
Speaker 2: and that's how it all starts. It's happening to so
Speaker 2: many people. So let's talk to Demetria about how she
Speaker 2: got out of this group. One thing I think about
Speaker 2: sometimes is, like we had he made a film called
Speaker 2: Kumaa where he.
Speaker 4: Posed as a guru.
Speaker 2: Basically, it follows him as he just starts telling everyone
Speaker 2: he's enlightened and he's a guru and he's a spiritual
Speaker 2: master or whatever, and then at the end he reveals
Speaker 2: to them that he was not, and some people continue
Speaker 2: to believe in him anyway.
Speaker 4: Fascinating film.
Speaker 2: But one of the things that he talked about was that,
Speaker 2: like you know, many cults, they don't reveal the crazy
Speaker 2: stuff until later, like scientology, they'll kind of gradually hook
Speaker 2: you in with like you know, just like basic like
Speaker 2: feel less stressed stuff. But then in some cases with
Speaker 2: more New age centric cults, one of the things he
Speaker 2: talked about that he did was lead actually with something
Speaker 2: that's like a little bit out there for the average
Speaker 2: person who is not already in that headspace. And so
Speaker 2: you're filtering out people who are going to be skeptical
Speaker 2: about it and attracting people who are the most vulnerable
Speaker 2: because they're already like they have some open yes, they
Speaker 2: have open mindedness to those concepts. Now, for for this group,
Speaker 2: was it more the latter you think, like, were they
Speaker 2: kind of from jump making some more extreme claims or
Speaker 2: did they wait until you were deeper in.
Speaker 3: It's definitely gradual, It's gradual, but at the same time
Speaker 3: it's they move pretty fast.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think inherently just being like, were two
Speaker 1: people who with beams of light who met in Egypt.
Speaker 5: And blah blah blah, it's going to cut out a
Speaker 5: bigger agreement.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that would cut me out. Ye would
Speaker 4: be like, no thanks, yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But some of their claims in Guru mag b Schofield's
Speaker 2: article either Here are a few quotes from the article. Terres
Speaker 2: and Forrester those are their real names, the legal last
Speaker 2: names claim that they can do remote surgeries, DNA upgrades,
Speaker 2: and karma clearings. In one case, they claim to have
Speaker 2: energetically recreated the spleen of a.
Speaker 4: Follower who had had it removed.
Speaker 2: They were clearly trying to convey that they were the
Speaker 2: reincarnations of Jesus Mary. Another for member said, a woman
Speaker 2: turned to me in Awe during a retreat and said,
Speaker 2: can you believe they are actually Jesus and Mary Magdalene.
Speaker 4: There are videos of him.
Speaker 2: Saying stuff like we've assisted in many different ways off planet.
Speaker 2: We've been on countless ships and had experiences of our
Speaker 2: physical body going to them. We've traveled back in time.
Speaker 2: There are different planetary systems that we travel too frequently.
Speaker 2: How deep in were you before you started hearing stuff
Speaker 2: like that?
Speaker 3: It well, you know, the whole alluding to Jesus, that
Speaker 3: was right from the beginning. But then yeah, like later on,
Speaker 3: I remember during during a session, he said, you know,
Speaker 3: we're not really people, and that really freaked me out.
Speaker 3: Actually he said that a couple of times, like we're
Speaker 3: not really people. Uh. I think they're trying to say
Speaker 3: that they're you know, superior to human beings that they've
Speaker 3: come from. Very colonialists, right, like they've come from a
Speaker 3: superior planet, from a superior time, and you know, coming
Speaker 3: to save the savages of humanity, you know.
Speaker 1: Which is very scientologist. Actually yeah, the oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Definitely a theme of like they always very consistently they
Speaker 3: put themselves at the top of the pyramid and they
Speaker 3: put us at the bottom. And people were confused, Like
Speaker 3: people would be like how like they know, you know people,
Speaker 3: they'd be like people a lot older than them. You know,
Speaker 3: he's only in his thirties, like she's at her forties,
Speaker 3: and people refer to them as divine mother and father,
Speaker 3: and they're like that's really weird, Like why why would
Speaker 3: you do that so ridiculous. But they set it up
Speaker 3: that way, you know, like they would refer to themselves
Speaker 3: as mother and father number one. But they would also
Speaker 3: like say how they they were at the top of
Speaker 3: this pyramid at the Office of the Christ where they
Speaker 3: had a spiritual age of over a million years, and
Speaker 3: all of us who were taking their classes, we were
Speaker 3: at the bottom of the pierod only one hundred years.
Speaker 3: So we had a lot of work to do, Like
Speaker 3: we need to give them a lot of money. They
Speaker 3: made it very expensive. They made being ourselves that's what
Speaker 3: self realization is, right, realizing who you are. They made
Speaker 3: it expensive, They made it hard, and they made it expensive.
Speaker 3: And that's how they did it. They did it by
Speaker 3: creating that that we are always going to be better
Speaker 3: than you. It's that bait and switch, right. The bait
Speaker 3: is like, if you take our classes, you'll be liberated.
Speaker 3: If you come to our retreats, you know you're going
Speaker 3: to be self realized. The switch is you will never
Speaker 3: be good enough for it, you never have enough money
Speaker 3: for it, and you will never be and that's how
Speaker 3: you know that. That was the big red flag for
Speaker 3: me during the private sessions. I just want to get
Speaker 3: this out of my system. But during the private sessions,
Speaker 3: after I paid them all this money, if I could
Speaker 3: sum up every session with them, it was they would
Speaker 3: ask me the question, well what do you want? Every
Speaker 3: session would start, well what do you want? And every
Speaker 3: session was telling me why I wasn't good enough for it,
Speaker 3: shaming me for wanting it, and telling me why I
Speaker 3: wasn't qualified. I mean to give that much money and
Speaker 3: to basically be like I had, you know how they
Speaker 3: talk about the breakdown of a sense of self to
Speaker 3: just tear down my self esteem throughout that entire period.
Speaker 3: And they had offered, like at the end of it,
Speaker 3: like ended end of twenty eighteen, they offered me to
Speaker 3: continue working with me privately for half as much, like
Speaker 3: for half the price, and I was like, no, why
Speaker 3: would I pay so that you can basically tear me
Speaker 3: down every session? And they would give me a little
Speaker 3: bread crumbs like disorganized attachment, you know, little bread crumbs
Speaker 3: to try to get their approval for. But you know,
Speaker 3: I had experience where like I have an issue and
Speaker 3: the healer actually helps me heal, Like they go into
Speaker 3: how how I can be healed, And I did not
Speaker 3: experience any of that from them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, simple therapy session sounds about fifty times as helpful
Speaker 1: as right, right.
Speaker 3: It's not I mean to pay somebody to tear you down.
Speaker 3: I was like, what is like this?
Speaker 1: But they're trying to get you to buy more courses. Correct,
Speaker 1: They're like, you're a piece of sht. Here's more courses.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they can't actually offer you value because then you
Speaker 2: won't need them anymore. So of course there's always got
Speaker 2: to be a deficit in you to keep you coming
Speaker 2: back and spending money.
Speaker 5: And this pyramid just keeps moving the goalpost.
Speaker 3: Yes, And you know, I remember, and that's why they
Speaker 3: push people, they like push people into unhealthy relationship dynamics,
Speaker 3: and then they cut people off from healthy relationships. So
Speaker 3: so I remember a woman in a group you know,
Speaker 3: like a group call, and she was looking for help,
Speaker 3: like just like me. She was looking for help and
Speaker 3: about her mother, her abusive mother, her abusive, critical mother,
Speaker 3: and she was just asking about it. And and I
Speaker 3: remember the female Okay, I'm going to say it in
Speaker 3: her voice. Are you okay with that?
Speaker 5: Yes, we're ready.
Speaker 3: I'm going to do this so I can, so you can,
Speaker 3: so you can see how easy it is to imitate
Speaker 3: this voice. Okay. The measure of your evolution is your
Speaker 3: relationship with your ma. So so please laugh. I watch
Speaker 3: you to laugh so that you know not only did
Speaker 3: she not give her the help that this woman was
Speaker 3: looking for, she humiliated her in front of everyone, and
Speaker 3: she made it her fault. Yeah, you know, like that
Speaker 3: whole thing. You know what They would always use this.
Speaker 3: You create your reality, right, the whole law. And this
Speaker 3: isn't just them, you know, it's that whole law of attraction.
Speaker 3: You create your reality one hundred percent. Everyone's your reflection.
Speaker 5: That's all a mayor, Yeah, call a mirror.
Speaker 3: And you know what that creates. It says for me,
Speaker 3: it isolated me because if I created everything, I shouldn't
Speaker 3: be asking anybody for help. I should be able to
Speaker 3: I created it, then I need to fix it. And
Speaker 3: if you isolate people, then people who want power and control,
Speaker 3: makes it very easy for them to exert power and
Speaker 3: control and make everything your fault except except for them.
Speaker 3: That's the big blind spot. Like I wouldn't listen to
Speaker 3: people outside of their community because they would always say,
Speaker 3: don't lend an ear be in your twelve o'clock one
Speaker 3: conversation can take you off your highest timeline. But my
Speaker 3: blind spot was I was listening to the right and
Speaker 3: it was their voice that was telling me not to
Speaker 3: talk to people who left.
Speaker 2: Was that something they would talk about a lot, like
Speaker 2: you can't talk to defectors. How connected were you in
Speaker 2: that period with just people with different beliefs that weren't
Speaker 2: like a part of the group. Did you feel isolated
Speaker 2: from other community?
Speaker 3: Oh? I feel very isolated. Yeah. They really made us
Speaker 3: feel that we were superior, you know, like we were
Speaker 3: on the fast track to ascension and creating this golden age,
Speaker 3: and that we really needed to kind of stick together,
Speaker 3: like with each other. And they really kind of made
Speaker 3: us feel like anybody who was not in their community
Speaker 3: was just not not on, didn't have they hadn't done
Speaker 3: the spiritual work, They just didn't understand. And you know,
Speaker 3: there was also this fear of other people's energy, and
Speaker 3: it was very isolating. Even though people if you talk
Speaker 3: to people, they probably wouldn't say that, they'd be like, oh, no,
Speaker 3: you know, we can, but it's very isolating.
Speaker 1: And the two by twos that I grew up and
Speaker 1: you're not supposed to talk to access because they're better
Speaker 1: and discouraging, so that seems a little bit like similar.
Speaker 5: And also you're nodding just it's a podcast.
Speaker 1: And then also it's just it's insane how similar they
Speaker 1: are to the twin Flame people. It's so weird, like
Speaker 1: because they're they're doing it at the same time as them.
Speaker 5: I don't know, it's all like they're copying them, right.
Speaker 3: Well, I heard you say one time, like I was
Speaker 3: listening to you on a podcast where you said the
Speaker 3: veil of silence, something about the veil of silence, and
Speaker 3: I've used the same term like I used it, like
Speaker 3: a blanket of silence. It feels like this new blanket
Speaker 3: of silence where people are so scared to say anything
Speaker 3: negative about them. And you know, it's so funny. I
Speaker 3: just have to say this hypocrisy real quick. When all
Speaker 3: those articles came out, they sent an email to their
Speaker 3: community that I somebody had sent it to me, and
Speaker 3: it said, you know, why can't we just break bread
Speaker 3: and why can't we just have a conversation and you know,
Speaker 3: and then it was like threatening people with like you know,
Speaker 3: they're going to get really bad karma, you know, people
Speaker 3: speaking ill of another. And she would always threaten people
Speaker 3: with like really bad karma for speaking ill of them,
Speaker 3: and I thought, well, gosh, that's interesting. The media had
Speaker 3: reached out to you for comment, I had tried to
Speaker 3: have a civil conversation with you, and they didn't show
Speaker 3: up to the media. They disappeared, and instead they talk
Speaker 3: about the media behind their backs speaking ill of them
Speaker 3: to their community.
Speaker 2: Right, did you identify those hypocrisies at the time, Like,
Speaker 2: were you starting to notice these things kind of along
Speaker 2: the way?
Speaker 3: You know, I did? I did. And it's the classic
Speaker 3: you know, where you just cognitive distance, right, you just
Speaker 3: put it away. You put it away like the Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's like until that spell breaks, however you want to
Speaker 3: say it, like until the veils lifted, until the spell breaks,
Speaker 3: until the shelf breaks. It's all the same thing, you know,
Speaker 3: until it breaks, you just keep it on the shelf.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: It's just it's and it's a trauma bond where you
Speaker 1: just blame it, keep blaming yourself.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, that's a deeply embedded training that everything that happened
Speaker 3: was my fault. I created it, and people in the community,
Speaker 3: it's a self sealed community will help you retrofit you
Speaker 3: back into that belief system. Once you pop your head out.
Speaker 2: In that same article, she talks about or somebody that
Speaker 2: she interviewed talked about how this dying woman there was
Speaker 2: a woman who had was it cancer, Yeah, pancreatic cancer.
Speaker 2: They told her she got cancer from spending too much
Speaker 2: time with her new granddaughter and not with them, and
Speaker 2: it was because she had stopped chanting in the mornings
Speaker 2: and doing their rituals and fasts or literally telling her
Speaker 2: that her cancer was a product of her not working
Speaker 2: hard enough, of being good enough, or being devoted enough.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's such a twisted I mean, it's a
Speaker 2: classic cult tactic, but it's such a twisted mindset to
Speaker 2: be in. I mean, like so it's impressive to me
Speaker 2: anytime anybody untangles themselves from that, because, like, self blame
Speaker 2: is just so deeply ingrained when you're trapped in a system.
Speaker 3: Like that, it's it's very it's very disturbing. I mean
Speaker 3: you can just imagine the heartache that that must have caused,
Speaker 3: not only her but also her family. And you know,
Speaker 3: I se I shared this in another podcast, But she
Speaker 3: was my friend and I was there at the retreat
Speaker 3: where they sold us gold pills, uh promising, and we
Speaker 3: all took those gold pills. But that promise that you
Speaker 3: can never get cancer if you took those gold pills,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, so not you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: It's like that's another exam sample of like we're going
Speaker 3: to make you these giant promises that will compel you
Speaker 3: to take certain action and invest money, invest resources, but
Speaker 3: when it doesn't work out, it's going to be your fault.
Speaker 2: That woman also spent like hundreds of thousand dollars. It's
Speaker 2: just so awful, I mean, and so many people did.
Speaker 2: So many people spent a lot of money. They purchased
Speaker 2: a property in Ashland, Oregon that was a very expensive
Speaker 2: property that they wouldn't have been able to afford if
Speaker 2: their members had not subsidized it and paid for it.
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, the Twin Ray, Yes, the Twin Ray purchased
Speaker 3: a large property. Yes, and it ended up going into foreclosure.
Speaker 3: So that's you know, it's really confusing to have, you know,
Speaker 3: received that much money that they were charging and to
Speaker 3: go into foreclosure. And okay, you're you. You guys are good.
Speaker 3: Because you're bringing up so much stuff. I just want
Speaker 3: to say another thing, another hipocrip. The hypocrisies are like
Speaker 3: flooding out. So I just want to like pose this question.
Speaker 3: If anybody's listening to this, it's like they just showed
Speaker 3: us over and over again, like if you're liberated, they
Speaker 3: claim to be liberated beings, and this is repeated things
Speaker 3: that were said over and over that they're liberated, unaffected, unprojectionable.
Speaker 3: Why do you need that much money if you're liberated
Speaker 3: and you don't even need food, Why do you need
Speaker 3: that much praise, that much recognition. I mean, they were
Speaker 3: telling people that they would get good karma if they
Speaker 3: did video testimonials on them. They were constantly needing praise.
Speaker 3: Only praise was acceptable. And I will say, why you
Speaker 3: need so much if you're so liberated?
Speaker 1: You know the the Guru Oh Show, I think I'm
Speaker 1: saying his name right, who lived in an Oregon. I
Speaker 1: remember reading reading I was very moved by some of
Speaker 1: his writings, and in one of them he said, people
Speaker 1: are so offended that I get so much money from
Speaker 1: my followers, but material things are a It's just a
Speaker 1: game to me that I play with to you know,
Speaker 1: I get this gold Mercedes, it doesn't mean anything to
Speaker 1: me or it's something that is just like I'm playing
Speaker 1: with other people's illusions of what material things are.
Speaker 5: I don't care about this plane of existence.
Speaker 1: This well, maybe it wasn't a Mercedes, maybe it was
Speaker 1: something even more ridiculous, but.
Speaker 5: The cognitive dissonance and that even right.
Speaker 4: But there's always a reason.
Speaker 2: There's always an explanation, Like when my mom was like
Speaker 2: selling her possessions at a yard sale to fund our
Speaker 2: profits like life, which we did not realize at the
Speaker 2: time when he was telling us was that, I mean,
Speaker 2: we didn't very much money to begin with, so it
Speaker 2: was probably he probably got like a.
Speaker 5: DI, did you guys sell your puppets?
Speaker 4: No, thank god God, I said, have one in this
Speaker 4: closet right now, I can show you. His explanation was, well,
Speaker 4: we need.
Speaker 2: It for the foundation to help people. And I think
Speaker 2: that's a really common one, is like we need somewhere
Speaker 2: for everyone to go.
Speaker 4: To help people.
Speaker 2: We need this is the only way we can spread
Speaker 2: the message and spread the work.
Speaker 4: It's going to help us.
Speaker 2: All worship better. Or like there's just always something. There's
Speaker 2: always a reason.
Speaker 5: Ps they bought it from scientologists. This mansion. That's odd.
Speaker 1: Every little detail in this story is like whoa Nothing
Speaker 1: is normal at any turn. But yeah, I mean I
Speaker 1: can buy into that, like, well I did, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I brought it to it.
Speaker 3: I sure bought into like, oh, we're creating Olden age
Speaker 3: and we're doing all these great things for humanity and
Speaker 3: for other people. And that's why I was happy to
Speaker 3: give the money. I trust these people. They're they're doing
Speaker 3: great things and they seem so composed.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Once once the hurdle of getting you to believe in
Speaker 2: the person is over, then there's always an explanation.
Speaker 4: There's always an excuse.
Speaker 2: There's always the human brain as such that once we
Speaker 2: believe in somebody, like we will go along with what
Speaker 2: they're saying because we believe in them, and we've invested
Speaker 2: time in them, and we've invested our hearts and energy
Speaker 2: in our community and like this is our lives, so
Speaker 2: like it makes more sense for us to believe what
Speaker 2: they're saying, especially because a lot of the times, like sure,
Speaker 2: their explanations like seem to make sense at first, Well,
Speaker 2: it's only after seeing the hypocrisy over time.
Speaker 3: Over time, well, it's it's not until that's, like I said,
Speaker 3: until that veil lifts or spell breaks, right, because because
Speaker 3: you and especially that sun cost, you know fallacy. I mean,
Speaker 3: if you've invested so much money in something and you've
Speaker 3: int like you said it really well, right, You've invest
Speaker 3: did your heart, you've invested your time, that's not going
Speaker 3: to be easy to let go of that. Like, you're
Speaker 3: going to do everything you can to justify that investment.
Speaker 3: And that's part of the method to the madness. I
Speaker 3: think like they they ask for large investments and large
Speaker 3: sums of money because they know that once they can
Speaker 3: get people to do that, it's they're going to want
Speaker 3: to justify their investment.
Speaker 1: I saw this happen recently with a lot of my
Speaker 1: good friends and myself with Biden, where we just were like, no,
Speaker 1: he's fine because it can't be Trump, and then it
Speaker 1: was like, wait, he's actually really not and we just
Speaker 1: had to believe that, and it really shook up some
Speaker 1: of the people I know totally.
Speaker 4: I'm with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just like and you know, it's people
Speaker 1: that are very highly educated and very smart, and.
Speaker 2: Also like when historically the people who are latching onto
Speaker 2: that narrative are people who will latch onto any narrative
Speaker 2: to discredit the person, it makes it harder to discern
Speaker 2: what's true and what is it?
Speaker 1: You mean, like latching onto hating Trump so much that
Speaker 1: you created No, I.
Speaker 2: Mean like anti Biden people were roasting him from the beginning.
Speaker 2: That narrative had been there for a long time. So
Speaker 2: if it's coming from them and those, it's coming from
Speaker 2: a source you don't trust, right, Typically, it's easier to
Speaker 2: be like, well, surely that can't be, you know, and
Speaker 2: then it makes it harder to see things sort of objectively.
Speaker 1: Right, So did you move to this compound? Like what's
Speaker 1: your day to day life, Like, are you now living
Speaker 1: in Oregon?
Speaker 3: No? Fortunately I never moved to Ashlands, so I never
Speaker 3: lived with them. I was just going to the retreats
Speaker 3: and taking all their classes, and I mean I was
Speaker 3: really immersed in those couple of years. I mean it
Speaker 3: was probably from the time I met him from to
Speaker 3: the time I completely unplugged, you know, completely just slammed
Speaker 3: the door shut. Was probably a total of four years.
Speaker 3: But I was immersed in those couple of years. I
Speaker 3: really only was was talking to people from their community.
Speaker 3: Every day. I would listen to something, one of their classes,
Speaker 3: one of their transmissions, taking their their alchemies. I mean,
Speaker 3: I was I.
Speaker 2: Was in, did you have a job, like a regular
Speaker 2: job during this time, Like, I'm curious about the disconnect
Speaker 2: between like this sort of spiritual life you're living and
Speaker 2: like the rest of your life.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. I was also learning like their healing modality,
Speaker 3: you know, so I was doing sessions with people. I
Speaker 3: was yeah, I mean I was immersed.
Speaker 1: Oh so you're not You're now one of their healers
Speaker 1: so people can pay No, no, no, no, that's that's another
Speaker 1: story that was part of I cut.
Speaker 3: I was like, no, you can take it, you can
Speaker 3: have it. And they made they tried to They tried
Speaker 3: to lock me in when I was leaving, to make
Speaker 3: me like they said they needed to monitor my website
Speaker 3: and I needed to put their website on my website
Speaker 3: and their logo. And I was like, I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm good. I don't. I don't need to use your
Speaker 3: healing modality. That's fine. Even though I spent five thousand
Speaker 3: dollars in all that time to get trained in it.
Speaker 3: You can have it. Because I could see that this
Speaker 3: is this is not I signed up for freedom, if
Speaker 3: you remember, I signed up for liberation, and that that
Speaker 3: was definitely not liberation. So so none of that, but yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, I was trying to live my life,
Speaker 3: but there was there. It was it was tough. It
Speaker 3: was tough, like I you know, I'd be talking to
Speaker 3: people outside of the group, you know, like day to
Speaker 3: day life, and and I always felt this huge like
Speaker 3: like I was like on another planet, you know, like
Speaker 3: it was like I'm from another planet and I'm talking
Speaker 3: to this person and they just don't know. They don't
Speaker 3: know how special and important I.
Speaker 2: Am, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I have no idea.
Speaker 4: I felt that as a kid. I mean I was young.
Speaker 2: Obviously, I'd be at school and be like, these kids
Speaker 2: don't know that I'm the chosen One, and I'm bringing
Speaker 2: about the second Coming of Christ.
Speaker 4: Like if only they knew. How fucking cool. I you know,
Speaker 4: like it's exciting.
Speaker 2: It's like you have this secret, this like mysterious secret,
Speaker 2: you know, and it does change the way you interact
Speaker 2: with the world. I can't imagine trying to date while
Speaker 2: you have that. That seems really hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was no dating. I mean, there was really
Speaker 3: no room for that. I mean, they're also big on celibacy.
Speaker 3: They said they don't have sex. They don't. Yeah, they
Speaker 3: don't have an attraction to each other. They don't talk
Speaker 3: to each other, so that was kind of weird. I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 3: is that really what I want to model? But you know,
Speaker 3: they claim they didn't need to, right, they don't need
Speaker 3: to because they have this extraterrestrial some kind of you know, special.
Speaker 1: Now we're adding aliens and and now.
Speaker 5: I'm back in the cult shit.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just certainly amazing how many groups just
Speaker 2: pull from the same got a little psychology.
Speaker 4: You got a little alien, you got a little Bible,
Speaker 4: you got a little Eastern religion, like you just mash
Speaker 4: it all together and boom, you know, they're all doing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah something they know, yes, exactly. Well, it's like, how
Speaker 3: do you hook people in? How do you keep people in?
Speaker 3: Lock people in, make sure they know that you're the
Speaker 3: best and you're the only. Right. You have the same
Speaker 3: formula over and over, just dressed up with different costumes
Speaker 3: and different Yeah.
Speaker 2: That's interesting, and it makes me think about something you
Speaker 2: said earlier, like about how you know, connected with your
Speaker 2: understanding of the Bible from when you're a kid, and
Speaker 2: like these other belief systems you have, and you know,
Speaker 2: Megan and I've talked a lot about how how important
Speaker 2: stories are for being a person and making sense of
Speaker 2: your life. I mean, it's so nefarious, but it's also
Speaker 2: so smart to use things that we have, like archetypes
Speaker 2: that we have in our head from stories across time
Speaker 2: to kind of like unlock this idea, this like Luke
Speaker 2: Skywalker thing or yeah, Jesus or whatever the story is,
Speaker 2: like connect with what people have in their culture and
Speaker 2: in their sort of innate understanding of the world. Obviously,
Speaker 2: you know, starting a cult in China would be very
Speaker 2: different than starting a cult here, but I'm sure there's overlap,
Speaker 2: lots of overlap as well. Did that make any sense
Speaker 2: at all?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: It made okay, okay, great, It felt very abstract in
Speaker 2: my head, but yeah, connecting with people's existing belief systems
Speaker 2: the same way that my quote unquote profit. You know,
Speaker 2: he decided that Mormonism was the religion that he was
Speaker 2: going to use as the thing to prey upon, Like
Speaker 2: he knew what our pre existing beliefs were and what
Speaker 2: he could build upon, and then he made it all
Speaker 2: insane from there.
Speaker 5: How fast was this thing growing?
Speaker 3: It grew really fast, but then yeah, it kind of
Speaker 3: reached its peak. I want to say, from my experience. Anyways,
Speaker 3: it reached the peak like June twenty twenty one, so like, yeah,
Speaker 3: and then it started getting kind of it just became
Speaker 3: more and more insular, more and more controlling, fear based.
Speaker 3: But it wasn't like that in the beginning. It wasn't
Speaker 3: so fear based. It was just like, Wow, this is
Speaker 3: a really cool thing. We're you know, we're really cut.
Speaker 3: We're saving humanity and creating a really like like everybody
Speaker 3: wants community, you know, we all want community. We all
Speaker 3: want to be part of something sustainable, right, healthy living,
Speaker 3: healthy agriculture. And they seemed to promise some of that,
Speaker 3: you know, being and providing healing. You know, they did
Speaker 3: the diamond trick.
Speaker 4: I don't know, you tell us explain that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they did this whole diamond trick where she
Speaker 3: acted like she was going into labor, making really loud
Speaker 3: sounds like standing there and and then he suddenly, you know,
Speaker 3: opens his hand and these three diamonds come out of
Speaker 3: his hand, and and they told us, and then they
Speaker 3: planted them in the earth. And then the next retreat,
Speaker 3: they said the reason that a lot of people pulled
Speaker 3: out of the next retreat was because they had planted power, love,
Speaker 3: and wisdom, and that a lot of people didn't make
Speaker 3: it because they're not loving, powerful and wise enough.
Speaker 5: And this is kind of a callback to his magician
Speaker 5: days there you go.
Speaker 3: Yes, so he's got a lot of good you know.
Speaker 3: I mean, look the stage hypnotists, right, you know, David
Speaker 3: Copperfield kind of magic tricks. I mean, they have a
Speaker 3: way of making things, you know, look a certain way.
Speaker 3: But they told us that we should tell everyone. They said,
Speaker 3: you know, we want you to tell everyone because that's
Speaker 3: what's going to make people make the pilgrimage to come
Speaker 3: out here, right, And that that people are going to
Speaker 3: make these pilgrimages to come to their place. There was
Speaker 3: going to be millions of people in stadiums and doing
Speaker 3: their technologies. And I just thought, you know, that's weird
Speaker 3: because when I was reading the books, you know about
Speaker 3: like gurus like Nisorga Data Maharaj, and he would always say,
Speaker 3: you know, anybody who shows their cities. I was always
Speaker 3: warned about spiritual teachers who show their powers. You know,
Speaker 3: that's like that's pure ego, you know. And I was like,
Speaker 3: I remember him saying, you know, the true teacher, like
Speaker 3: the true realized being knows that you don't need them
Speaker 3: to be realized and that they don't need you to
Speaker 3: realize them.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna just shout out Robert Jay Lifton's eight criteria
Speaker 2: for thought reform. Number two is mystical manipulation, where the
Speaker 2: group manipulates experiences that appear spontaneous to demonstrate divine authority,
Speaker 2: spiritual advancement, or some exceptional talent or insight that sets
Speaker 2: the leader and or group apart from humanity, and that
Speaker 2: allows the reinterpretation of historical vent scripture and other experiences.
Speaker 4: Jim Jones faked healings.
Speaker 2: I mean when somebody is doing the sort of stage
Speaker 2: craft of you know, a magic trick or a healing like,
Speaker 2: be very very wary because that is one of the
Speaker 2: hallmarks of cult like groups.
Speaker 3: And every you know what, every stage throughout time has
Speaker 3: warned about that. So it's not even just lifting, Yeah,
Speaker 3: Lifting pointed that out. That's a very important But across
Speaker 3: the board, that's a red flag they start showing. Even
Speaker 3: if it's a whether you know, he was tried to
Speaker 3: say he produced it from his light body, you know,
Speaker 3: but even to me, that's not the point, Like whether
Speaker 3: he produced it from his light body or was a
Speaker 3: magic trick, the fact that they're showing that, and they're
Speaker 3: displaying that so that they can get followers right there.
Speaker 2: Okay, but loky, if I could puke at diamond I
Speaker 2: would do it all the time.
Speaker 4: In front of people, right, I'd be like, you see
Speaker 4: what I can do? Yeah, so cool, And then you
Speaker 4: wouldn't need people's money anymore.
Speaker 5: That's a good point.
Speaker 4: If you're still in this group, just tell him just
Speaker 4: keep peeking.
Speaker 5: Up diamonds and then we'll be fine.
Speaker 4: We can get the house bright for money.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, Why do they need so much money from
Speaker 3: their followers if they can spit out diamonds and they
Speaker 3: can create they at one retreat, they showed us a
Speaker 3: gold like a piece of gold that they had alchemized
Speaker 3: out of nowhere, you know, and then they're selling the
Speaker 3: gold out and they said, you can never exchange this
Speaker 3: for money. It's like because they.
Speaker 6: Know that if you if you try to, and the
Speaker 6: people be like, you know, oh god.
Speaker 5: These people are such assholes.
Speaker 4: And they had a store.
Speaker 2: Obviously we have to we have to touch on the store,
Speaker 2: which no longer exists, I believe, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, the store. I I don't know much about
Speaker 3: the store, to be perfectly honest, because they opened the
Speaker 3: store after I left. I was like totally gone. So
Speaker 3: that store opened and closed with really very little. I
Speaker 3: was never in it. I really don't know much about it.
Speaker 2: It appears it was just like a New Age store
Speaker 2: with meditation rooms and crystals and that.
Speaker 1: Ten thousand square feet giant, dormous just stuff in it
Speaker 1: with crystals and shit, and everybody wore white, white clothing. Correct,
Speaker 1: what was kind of the dress looking?
Speaker 3: Yeah, they had very strict code for the retreats, so
Speaker 3: specifically the retreats, it was like, you know, don't eat
Speaker 3: you know fast. Well, I think they told us to
Speaker 3: have juices for two weeks, no sex, no, you know,
Speaker 3: nothing process, nothing, and then they had we were only
Speaker 3: allowed to wear white, you know during the ceremonies, and
Speaker 3: we weren't allowed to take pictures at their house. So
Speaker 3: it got stricter. You know, it wasn't like that in
Speaker 3: the beginning, but it got stricter and stricter, and actually
Speaker 3: at one point they even were in stry. Well, they
Speaker 3: were instructing their close ascendance not to hug anyone, you know,
Speaker 3: so then they would you know, so that became, you know,
Speaker 3: and then they have to let people know, like, you know,
Speaker 3: you're you're my sister and my brother, but I can't
Speaker 3: hug you. So they're like, no one loved to hug anybody,
Speaker 3: even though we're creating a Golden Age loving community and
Speaker 3: they're supposed to be you're light and lighting everyone. So yeah, they're.
Speaker 1: Even cutting off connection with people in the group, Like
Speaker 1: they're saying, let's be celibate. Let's cause like and a
Speaker 1: lot of the cults, it's like, let's all have sex
Speaker 1: with each other. You know, that's kind of promoted, but
Speaker 1: in this one, they want you kind of isolated even
Speaker 1: from each other.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, it's like it's like whatever serves them, you know,
Speaker 3: like they would push certain people together if like it
Speaker 3: served them, you know, if it would be financially beneficial
Speaker 3: for them, but then they would you know, separate others.
Speaker 1: So what was the ultimate point where you trying are
Speaker 1: they trying to connect people with their twin ray? Where
Speaker 1: are you trying to bring about the Golden Age?
Speaker 4: Like what's everyone trying to achieve together?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's all of it. You know, people
Speaker 3: want to meet their twin flames. People want to be
Speaker 3: spiritually liberated. They want to ascend. They want to ascend spiritually,
Speaker 3: creating a golden age, a golden age community. It's everything
Speaker 3: you've ever wanted your whole life.
Speaker 4: Is there an end of the world imminent?
Speaker 3: So they weren't specifically like the world's coming to an end,
Speaker 3: but they sure did allude to it. They would create
Speaker 3: urgency around that, like it was like, you know, we
Speaker 3: need to like you're the chosen, alluding to that because
Speaker 3: I mean, I even remember her in twenty twenty one
Speaker 3: and she said, you know, most people aren't going to
Speaker 3: make survive the next two years.
Speaker 5: Unbelievable.
Speaker 3: This was in twenty twenty one, right, we're in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty four, and she said most of the populations for
Speaker 3: the last time I checked the population calculator, like the
Speaker 3: human population still keeps growing. So, I mean, she said
Speaker 3: most of the population was not going to survive the
Speaker 3: next two years. She said that at a few different times,
Speaker 3: So there was yeah, like they would do it really subtly.
Speaker 3: You know. It wasn't like they did point out this
Speaker 3: year a lot. They talked about this year, like they
Speaker 3: would say, there's gonna be so much light, so much
Speaker 3: light coming into the planet that you know, people are
Speaker 3: just not going to be able to and like we
Speaker 3: need you to help people during that time because people
Speaker 3: aren't going to know the difference between what's real and
Speaker 3: what's a dream. And you know, he's saying this, and
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh my god, I believe him because that's
Speaker 3: what I was experiencing being in that group. Like they're right,
Speaker 3: they're creating this. People are losing their grasp on reality.
Speaker 3: I mean DMT Fasting. Yeah, of course you start to
Speaker 3: lose your grasp on what's a dream and what's real
Speaker 3: because they're creating that them, them, them, But they make
Speaker 3: you feel like it's like, oh my god, this is
Speaker 3: what's happening in the world, like so much light and
Speaker 3: people are going to be delusional, and we need to
Speaker 3: like you need to take our classes so that you
Speaker 3: can be prepared to.
Speaker 5: Like integrate the light.
Speaker 1: How I read it was in twenty twenty four, like
Speaker 1: people couldn't like basically just combust from how much light
Speaker 1: was coming in.
Speaker 4: Well what does light even mean? What does that mean?
Speaker 3: Well, like light light, you know, like light energy coming
Speaker 3: into the planet. Like let's say you know the lights,
Speaker 3: I mean the planet is based on like light and dark.
Speaker 6: Right, it's so like sunlight and sunlight but also like
Speaker 6: spiritual spiritual sunlight, and people just like can't process it,
Speaker 6: so they need the twin ray group to understand.
Speaker 2: Well, I certainly can't understand, but I have not combusted yet,
Speaker 2: so fingers crossed, we have a few months left, that's true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is really a make or break year here.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I'm always shocked that they do this.
Speaker 1: I'm just shocked that people have the gall to give
Speaker 1: timelines of people aren't going to make it the next
Speaker 1: two years, twenty four, they're all going to combust, and then.
Speaker 5: They always are able to talk themselves out of it.
Speaker 1: It is so it was just like such a sociopathic tendency.
Speaker 2: At least our religions, you and me megan growing up,
Speaker 2: at least they were like.
Speaker 4: Some point in the future, very soon.
Speaker 3: Like it was big.
Speaker 4: There was not a specific date and no.
Speaker 2: Right was like so many probably to today, but yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's about to happen, but we don't know when, so
Speaker 2: there's plausible deniability, you.
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, exactly, Like well, and then there's always some
Speaker 3: kind of an explanation like, oh, well, we had prepared everybody. Eactly,
Speaker 3: that's what.
Speaker 4: That is such a common one, that's common. Actually God
Speaker 4: decided you guys were good, like.
Speaker 3: You guys say, a great job, so we don't have
Speaker 3: to and bad things do happen. I mean, let's be honest.
Speaker 3: You know, bad things have happened, right, and in the collective,
Speaker 3: like a lot of people were like I would have
Speaker 3: never guessed that pandemic was going to happen. I mean,
Speaker 3: they certainly exploited that. So then it's like, oh wow,
Speaker 3: you know, like something like that happens and then a
Speaker 3: teacher predicts it, you know, or like zoting predicts it.
Speaker 3: That ever was like oh wow, yeah they were right
Speaker 3: about this, right, War, war.
Speaker 2: Is happening, pestilence the planet, Like there's so much that
Speaker 2: you could say that would probably be happening at some
Speaker 2: point soon because that has.
Speaker 3: Been happening, right yeah, yeah for a very long time,
Speaker 3: and you know, yeah, it can definitely be exploited. Yeah,
Speaker 3: my gosh, right, like you know, knock on wood, but
Speaker 3: I but you know that's the thing. They're they're preying
Speaker 3: on vulnerabilities, right, and the mind. The mind is very
Speaker 3: very vulnerable and absolutely.
Speaker 1: Like that guy we were talking about earlier who was like,
Speaker 1: I'm actually a fake guru and people are like, no,
Speaker 1: you're not.
Speaker 5: Like they just needed the placebo effect of a.
Speaker 1: Guru, you know, like they our minds are so susceptible,
Speaker 1: which is endlessly intriguing. But I'm curious about when the
Speaker 1: shelfs started to break for you, when the spell started
Speaker 1: to slodge.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, well I think that's you know, it's important.
Speaker 3: So it's like I talk about all the little things,
Speaker 3: you know, that all kind of came together. But there
Speaker 3: there was a very clear moment, and it was a
Speaker 3: moment of like I did. I was alone, so I
Speaker 3: wasn't listening to any of their stuff, I wasn't talking
Speaker 3: to anyone from their community, and I was alone and
Speaker 3: suddenly I and honestly, you know, I know you guys
Speaker 3: think this sounds weird, but I had not experienced that before.
Speaker 3: But I did go into a meditation for two days.
Speaker 3: I there was like no movement, no thoughts. To this day,
Speaker 3: I've never like, if I try to replicate that, I can't,
Speaker 3: I start moving, I start twitching. But something happened like
Speaker 3: where I got pulled into this, like really just like
Speaker 3: no thought, no movement, state. And then when I emerged
Speaker 3: from that, I knew. I knew. I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 3: this is a whole this is a game. They're playing
Speaker 3: a game at our expense, and they think it's funny,
Speaker 3: you know, and like yeah, like it's all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: like these what I believe were these like superior beings
Speaker 3: divine dispensation, and I'm like, oh my god, they're like
Speaker 3: he's thirty years old, geez forty or whatever, and they
Speaker 3: think they are Barbie and Ken and they you know,
Speaker 3: they live in their dream else literally and they're trying
Speaker 3: to act like Jesus a very and like it was
Speaker 3: just all of a sudden. I just saw the whole
Speaker 3: thing as a ruse.
Speaker 2: Do you think that it happened to them because you
Speaker 2: had been so stimulated and immersed for so long and
Speaker 2: then like you had the time to process or was
Speaker 2: there like something that had happened before that felt like
Speaker 2: kind of a straw that broke the camel's back.
Speaker 3: You know. Honestly, I could point to a lot of
Speaker 3: different things, because there were a lot of like logical
Speaker 3: you know, people were trying to tell me, and I
Speaker 3: was like listening, you know, again, I'm listening to the leaders,
Speaker 3: don't lend an ear, but I'm listening, but I'm letting
Speaker 3: an ear to them, you know, but not listening to
Speaker 3: the people that had been hurt by them and had left.
Speaker 3: So but I was shutting all of that out and
Speaker 3: it wasn't until until it was just like I was
Speaker 3: in that empty like just clear, not omine, not like
Speaker 3: a dark emptiness where it's scary, a big difference, but
Speaker 3: just where I was like nobody's voice, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, Like I was in this space where I
Speaker 3: had no I love your video by the way, Lola,
Speaker 3: trust in your own voice.
Speaker 4: Oh thank you music.
Speaker 3: It was like nobody's voice, like all the it was,
Speaker 3: it was just it was just empty. And so then
Speaker 3: my voice, you know what I mean, Like it was
Speaker 3: finally my truth, you know, and the truth that I know,
Speaker 3: and not just like a superficial truth, but like the truth,
Speaker 3: you know, Like the truth comes through in that, in
Speaker 3: that quiet and in that emptiness, and that's where that
Speaker 3: you know, has value, the meditative space, not not when
Speaker 3: it's institutionalized and regimented and uh directed by an authoritarian no,
Speaker 3: but when it comes naturally within yourself spontaneously.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you can notice what's happening in your body
Speaker 2: and notice it's like what's making you feel uneasy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like your intuition comes back online, you know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: what was the feeling? Was it like assuming there was
Speaker 1: so many of them? But was it anger?
Speaker 5: Like relief? But what were you thinking?
Speaker 3: That's such a great question. Wow, you guys are really
Speaker 3: you're going you guys are you should be therap? She was?
Speaker 3: She was therapy?
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like people are listening to this is kind of
Speaker 3: embarrassing because it's like this is gonna be a public
Speaker 3: therapy session, but.
Speaker 1: Like you're bringing so much clea.
Speaker 3: It was. I mean, if you take me back to
Speaker 3: that time, and first I was just dumbfounded, you know,
Speaker 3: it was just like oh my, like this was all
Speaker 3: a game, you know, like you're just in shock, you know.
Speaker 3: And and I had, by the way, I had this
Speaker 3: realization before going to the retreat in September, So I
Speaker 3: actually went to the retreat knowing like this was going
Speaker 3: to be whoa.
Speaker 4: What was that?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 4: Well, I don't want you can finish your other answer first,
Speaker 4: I don't want to, I know.
Speaker 3: No, No, it's I'm glad I had that. I felt
Speaker 3: very fortunate to have had that because then I really
Speaker 3: saw it like an action, you know, like I really
Speaker 3: started to see it with clear eyes, and gosh, man
Speaker 3: did I see it with clear eyes. Like I saw
Speaker 3: how how they shape shifted after the elixirs and after
Speaker 3: the sharing circles where everybody's you know, praising them, and
Speaker 3: if we weren't allowed to take pictures, but I so
Speaker 3: wished I had a camera because they looked completely different
Speaker 3: that first night than after an elixir and a sharing circle,
Speaker 3: Like they they received so much power and energy from
Speaker 3: the group. They see off of that energy of the group.
Speaker 3: I mean, their eyes look different, their skin looked different.
Speaker 3: It was why, like I have never yeah, I had
Speaker 3: never you know, seen anything like that. They get a
Speaker 3: lot of a lot of energy and then they also
Speaker 3: you know, pick up the information from the group, you know,
Speaker 3: so that informs a lot of what they say and
Speaker 3: then they sell, you know, so so that was interesting
Speaker 3: to observe. But yeah, I mean it was rage, to
Speaker 3: be honest, I really found my rage afterwards, like and
Speaker 3: it was that rage was very important. And I want
Speaker 3: people to know that because you know, you don't hear
Speaker 3: that enough but I feel like I'm so tired of
Speaker 3: people talking about forgiveness and talking about totally. Like I'm
Speaker 3: just so tired of like preaching forgiveness and neutrality. And
Speaker 3: it's not specific just t tuin ray. This is like
Speaker 3: the spiritual thing, the law of attraction thing, all across
Speaker 3: the board. You cannot bypass that rage. Yeah, Like that
Speaker 3: rage is what catapulted me out of there completely. Like
Speaker 3: if I hadn't had that rage, like I might still
Speaker 3: be playing around, you know, I might still be like, Oh,
Speaker 3: they're not that bad, you know, let me just let
Speaker 3: me just listen to one of their classes again. You know,
Speaker 3: it's not that bad, right, But it's the rage. It
Speaker 3: was the rage that was like made it complete and
Speaker 3: I needed that. And it's hard because rage is a
Speaker 3: very intense energy and it can be really hard on
Speaker 3: the body. So I really had to kind of go
Speaker 3: through that and just really kind of be patient with
Speaker 3: myself through that process and just kind of allow that feeling.
Speaker 3: You know, something you're not taught in these spiritual communities,
Speaker 3: especially not in any kind of institutional kind of practices
Speaker 3: and meditation. You're taught to suppress all of that. You're
Speaker 3: todd you're going to get bad karma if you ever
Speaker 3: have anger, you know, So like I needed that and
Speaker 3: thank you for asking.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's so. That's so important.
Speaker 2: Like colts cut us off from our feelings and we
Speaker 2: have to be able to access them again and allow
Speaker 2: them to be there. And that's why I do like
Speaker 2: mindfulness meditation because it is noticing and allowing whatever is
Speaker 2: there and letting it be there. Because there's nothing wrong
Speaker 2: with feeling. You should feel rage if somebody has deceived
Speaker 2: you and misled you and taken your money and lied
Speaker 2: and you know, like been destructive to people's lives. That's
Speaker 2: the correct emotion. Yeah, that's a proportionate feeling.
Speaker 1: At what point did you realize that the magic elixir
Speaker 1: ancient Alexir was actually just the empty I actually.
Speaker 3: Found out because people it had got a few different
Speaker 3: people knew where he got it from. He actually got
Speaker 3: it from someone the formula, and I found out I
Speaker 3: was able to connect with this lovely person. She is
Speaker 3: really a lovely human being and very humble, you know,
Speaker 3: and she just let me know, she's like, you know,
Speaker 3: it's I asked her, you know, because because people would
Speaker 3: there was some talk about how there was DMT and
Speaker 3: I'm like, DMT. I never heard that word. What is
Speaker 3: dm D I didn't know what it was. I never
Speaker 3: heard anyone say that the whole time I was there,
Speaker 3: And I asked, and she said, yeah, it's filled with DMT,
Speaker 3: and it's never disclosed.
Speaker 1: DMT is one of the most disissosed of like intense
Speaker 1: drugs on the planet Earth.
Speaker 3: So hallucinogenic, right, you have hallucinations. You can really destabilize
Speaker 3: very easily when you're taking that. It's no joke. It's
Speaker 3: nothing to play with by any means. I can't emphasize
Speaker 3: this enough because now the phrase is all about, you know, psychedelics,
Speaker 3: and and I just want people to know, like you're
Speaker 3: not going to find freedom through a psychedelic you know.
Speaker 3: People think they're gonna have this like I'm going to
Speaker 3: meet God and I'm going to be God. And maybe temporarily,
Speaker 3: I mean I had some temporarily high highs, Like there
Speaker 3: are a couple of times where I thought I was
Speaker 3: like hurcules, you know, No, your body has to catch
Speaker 3: up with that. And when it does, like when you
Speaker 3: touch ground, it's tough.
Speaker 2: Well, And I think the larger takeaway for me from
Speaker 2: this is that people were being given drugs that they
Speaker 2: didn't know what they were, and there were older people
Speaker 2: there who were maybe not in a great state of health, people.
Speaker 3: Who had never taken drugs, including me.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's incredibly dangerous and irresponsible.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: The reason I said earlier that DMT is short lived
Speaker 2: is because my understanding is the full high of DMT
Speaker 2: would typically be less than an hour. So it makes
Speaker 2: me wonder if they were adding something else in it too,
Speaker 2: if it was lasting all of that time.
Speaker 4: Ayahuasca ish something.
Speaker 3: That is fascinating. I actually did not know that, and
Speaker 3: I definitely was having the experience for a good, like
Speaker 3: solid six hours, like I was going strong. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: that's interesting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like it's like notably a short, shorter high,
Speaker 2: but ayahuasca is longer, and that's fucked up.
Speaker 4: That's just fucked up. You don't just get people drugs
Speaker 4: and well.
Speaker 3: And the worst part about it too, is not only
Speaker 3: are they, you know, giving people hall loose cinogens, but
Speaker 3: they make you believe it's all you you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, Like they make you believe that it's because
Speaker 3: of all your karma and all your karma from past lives.
Speaker 3: And one time he said, you know, because some people
Speaker 3: have like really great experiences, like some people are like
Speaker 3: I saw angels and rainbows and it was just so wonderful,
Speaker 3: and you know, and I had really difficult you know,
Speaker 3: some people, most people have challenging experiences. But he said, uh,
Speaker 3: you know, you just don't know the work that the
Speaker 3: people who have good experiences. You don't know how hard
Speaker 3: they worked in previous lines.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I hate them so much, so much.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I also just want to circle back to
Speaker 2: the diet because that is also an incredibly dangerous.
Speaker 4: Thing to be doing.
Speaker 2: To make to control people's diet in the first place,
Speaker 2: don't do it very bad, but particularly when you're telling
Speaker 2: them to be on an only fruit diet.
Speaker 4: I mean, people have died from an only fruit diet.
Speaker 3: People have died, Yes, that is correct.
Speaker 2: So these things, I hope that they face consequences for
Speaker 2: their actions at some point. The cult has sort of
Speaker 2: gone underground, now, right.
Speaker 3: That's correct. I don't know. I haven't. I couldn't tell
Speaker 3: you what's going on there. It's very insular. Yeah, yeah, really,
Speaker 3: there hasn't been any social media or anything.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: My concern I am. You know, I am still concerned
Speaker 3: about the people there like I do. These people were
Speaker 3: my friends, and I just want that message really clear,
Speaker 3: is that you know, I've come out because I do
Speaker 3: care about them like I was in that place, and
Speaker 3: I care and I just hope that they are well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know you weren't ready until you were when
Speaker 2: other people were talking about it. And hopefully you sharing
Speaker 2: your story as much as you have been when somebody
Speaker 2: is ready, it will help them, help nudge them out
Speaker 2: as well. I mean, you know, you're doing the work,
Speaker 2: so that's.
Speaker 1: Great, and that's creating a really good karma for your
Speaker 1: next life.
Speaker 3: Thank you for balancing that narrative.
Speaker 5: How is how is life now?
Speaker 2: Are you? Like?
Speaker 5: How are you rebuilding?
Speaker 3: You know, I've I've had to take it very slow.
Speaker 3: You know. There were times, you know, there were times
Speaker 3: where I didn't realize like how de the how like
Speaker 3: deep that went in my psyche, you know, and I
Speaker 3: just thought I could just get over it and just
Speaker 3: move on. And you know, there is the thing about
Speaker 3: cult hopping. People will call hop and but that just
Speaker 3: I knew I couldn't do that, Like I just it
Speaker 3: was so complete for me and so deep for me,
Speaker 3: and I've just been spending a lot of time in nature,
Speaker 3: and there's a few people that have stuck by me
Speaker 3: and they know who they are, and thank thankfully for them.
Speaker 3: And and some some good support, definitely some good support,
Speaker 3: high integrity, high integrity people. There are only a few
Speaker 3: though there's not many. I gotta be honest, and yeah,
Speaker 3: but you know, it's like it's like people need to know.
Speaker 3: It's like, take your time, take your time because it's
Speaker 3: not linear. You think you've gotten over it, and other
Speaker 3: things come through, and and uh, you could even use
Speaker 3: the same teachings right like it were if we're eternal.
Speaker 3: You know, we're eternal beings. So okay, now I'm okay,
Speaker 3: thank you. You've taken me into another realm.
Speaker 5: Here we're eternal beings, so take your time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like take your time, and and just know that
Speaker 3: I think the biggest like I said, like that rage
Speaker 3: was important, and and also that that it's it's not linear,
Speaker 3: and that you there there is life on the other
Speaker 3: side and as hard as it as hard as it
Speaker 3: it can be, it can be very hard. Uh that
Speaker 3: you know, people show up like you look at you two,
Speaker 3: I'm talking to you too. And this this is exciting
Speaker 3: for me.
Speaker 4: Oh you're exciting for us.
Speaker 1: You've made such amazing I mean, you've made such amazing points.
Speaker 1: You have such an incredible story. It really a heartbreaking story.
Speaker 1: I am so impressed with how strong you are. I
Speaker 1: am my heart is broken for everybody still in that community.
Speaker 1: I I don't way this one really got punched me.
Speaker 1: They all do, but this one in particular, it's just wow, wow, because.
Speaker 4: It's one that you would join, because it's.
Speaker 1: One that I would join, and because like I mean
Speaker 1: to be giving like older people.
Speaker 4: Damn t it's like you it of course people.
Speaker 1: Are going to mental institutions, like yeah, that's a huge deal,
Speaker 1: huge deal.
Speaker 5: So yeah, it's just that I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 3: And then the way they would work their team, I
Speaker 3: just I wanted to give a shout out to. I
Speaker 3: mean the way that the team worked that was another
Speaker 3: big red flag is like they were doing everything for them.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I mean everything. It was like you know,
Speaker 3: and they were just it was just pure like devotion,
Speaker 3: you know, devotion to to the Guru. And you know,
Speaker 3: one guy had cut off his family so callously, like
Speaker 3: he cut off like all his friends everybody he knew
Speaker 3: to a point where they reported him missing. Wow, because
Speaker 3: they couldn't find and these were close friends. There's not
Speaker 3: acquaintances like close friends, you know people that yeah, very
Speaker 3: close and they couldn't find anyone to verify where he was,
Speaker 3: and he just he was with you know, He's devoted
Speaker 3: his life to them.
Speaker 1: So these are kind of people living on the compound
Speaker 1: that are I'm using quotations air quotes that are like
Speaker 1: personal assistants to God them and work twenty four hours
Speaker 1: a day doing all of their social media, all of
Speaker 1: their very mother God Love has won that doc. It
Speaker 1: reminds me of them a lot. Yeah, they're just doing
Speaker 1: busy work, social media, working.
Speaker 3: On everything, you know, all of the Yeah, I mean with.
Speaker 2: Labor, it's labor exploitations.
Speaker 3: It's it's extreme. Actually, you know because I actually worked
Speaker 3: for the Department Labor, so I was very sensitive to that.
Speaker 3: And yeah, and because that was a red flag too,
Speaker 3: because I'm like, I signed up for a Golden Age community,
Speaker 3: you know, where we're all supposed to be like equal,
Speaker 3: and then I'm watching like I had I felt like
Speaker 3: I needed, even though I gave like almost nine thousand
Speaker 3: dollars for the week long retreat. Like I felt like
Speaker 3: I needed to like help them out because you could
Speaker 3: just see the stress and the pressure and the amount
Speaker 3: of work that they were putting on them. That's so awful.
Speaker 2: Is there anything that you are grateful for from the experience,
Speaker 2: or like any takeaways that you feel have helped you in.
Speaker 4: Some way learning what you've learned.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a fair question. I haven't really been asked that,
Speaker 3: And there are things. I mean, I learned a lot.
Speaker 3: I mean honestly, I learned a lot and not just yes,
Speaker 3: I definitely learned to discern and I learned discretion and
Speaker 3: it just flipped over all of my spiritual beliefs just
Speaker 3: like upside down. But I think, you know, because of that,
Speaker 3: in a way, there's a silver lining, because like it
Speaker 3: allowed me to forgive myself, you know, because like wow,
Speaker 3: like if these people in authority, like all my life,
Speaker 3: like I've been listening to teachers and authority figures shaming me,
Speaker 3: making me feel like I'm a bad person for whatever,
Speaker 3: and like wow, if they're not like they're not perfect,
Speaker 3: Like these supposedly people at authority are definitely not perfect. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, you forgive yourself but you realize, okay, like
Speaker 3: we're we we can kind of let ourselves off the
Speaker 3: hook to And you know, I did appreciate meeting the
Speaker 3: community as well. You know, it's tough. It's tough meeting community.
Speaker 3: And that was was a community, and I learned a
Speaker 3: lot from the people there, and there was definitely, yeah,
Speaker 3: there was definitely lots of little little silver linings. They
Speaker 3: did say some things that were true. Right, it's always
Speaker 3: truth and lies. Yeah, of course if there was nothing good,
Speaker 3: you would never you never go into it, right, So
Speaker 3: so yeah, there were some good things.
Speaker 5: Some hidden nuggets of knowledge. And then yeah.
Speaker 3: And also just mainly you know, coming like like what
Speaker 3: I've seen the two of you. Your theme is really
Speaker 3: kind of like finding your own voice. So if that
Speaker 3: was probably the biggest silver lining is I feel like
Speaker 3: I'm finding my own voice and I really didn't have that.
Speaker 4: So well, I'm so glad you haven't that you've shared
Speaker 4: it with us.
Speaker 5: Me too.
Speaker 1: I keep hearing that Bridesmaids quote when she's like, never
Speaker 1: trust anyone, but.
Speaker 4: You should put that int.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this story is incredible. You're incredible. Thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining us. This has been so interesting.
Speaker 6: And if.
Speaker 4: People wanted to find you. Is that something you want or.
Speaker 3: No, Yeah, you can find me on substack. I am
Speaker 3: writing that Demetri m dot substack dot com. So yeah,
Speaker 3: every once in a while I'll write something on there
Speaker 3: if I feel inspired.
Speaker 4: But yeah, great, awesome, Well thank you so much. Yes,
Speaker 4: thank you.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, thank you. And I just want to
Speaker 3: encourage you to keep doing what you're doing because I
Speaker 3: just you really, the two of you really bring a
Speaker 3: creative blair to this space that's really refreshing, really nice.
Speaker 2: Okay, and that's where we're leaving that interview today. We
Speaker 2: are so grateful to Dimitria for reaching out to us
Speaker 2: and for coming on the show. We did talk a
Speaker 2: little bit about this in our outro last week by
Speaker 2: but yeah, I don't think that this particular brand of
Speaker 2: online well initially online cult is something that I would join.
Speaker 4: But I certainly think.
Speaker 2: That a version of this Again, like I said, you
Speaker 2: get a taste of one thing that you like. It
Speaker 2: seems interesting, it seems useful, so you just keep buying
Speaker 2: more like that. Definitely susceptible to my interests. Just happened
Speaker 2: to be in other realms. Although, as I spoke about
Speaker 2: in the intro last week, I am feeling some spiritual
Speaker 2: hunger and some openness to, you know, new kinds of
Speaker 2: rituals that maybe I would scoff at in the past.
Speaker 2: And I still am scoffing a little bit. But you
Speaker 2: need something to get you through an existence that is
Speaker 2: so often painful and so often full of things that make.
Speaker 4: Us feel bad.
Speaker 2: It would be nice to have some reprieve in some community. Okay, od,
Speaker 2: it's all I'm gonna say, y'all, Thanks so much for
Speaker 2: joining us this week, Stay tuned, come back next week.
Speaker 2: If you haven't purchased our merch, you can buy it
Speaker 2: at bit dot, l y slash trust Me Merch. And
Speaker 2: if you want to write us five stars five stars specifically,
Speaker 2: please go rate us. If you don't want to rate
Speaker 2: us five stars, please do not rate us. We would
Speaker 2: really appreciate it. As always, remember to follow your gut,
Speaker 2: watch out for red flags, and never ever trust me.
Speaker 3: Bye.
Speaker 2: Trust Me as produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp and
Speaker 2: Steve Delemator.
Speaker 4: With special thanks to Stacy Para, and our theme song
Speaker 4: was composed by Holly amber Church.
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast.
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