1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class. A production 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:14,079 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio, Happy Friday, Everybody. I'm Tracy V. 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,520 Speaker 1: Wilson and I'm Holly Fry. One of our episodes this 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:24,759 Speaker 1: week was about tear gas. Uh, sure was super fun. Yes, 5 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: and those girl scouts. Yes. Some of the articles that 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:32,479 Speaker 1: I read about tear gas we're really frustrating to read 7 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,599 Speaker 1: because a lot of them, not all of them by 8 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: any stretch, but like there were there were several of 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: them that were like, if they had just had tear 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: gas during this anti colonial uprising, they could have avoided 11 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 1: massacring all of those people. And I was just like, 12 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,120 Speaker 1: I can think of a third option that is neither 13 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: tear gas nor massacre, and it is have you considered 14 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: not having an oppressive colonial regime? Maybe if you addressed 15 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: that problem instead of dispersing the protesters with tear gas 16 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: or weapons like firearms, Like, like, there's that third option 17 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: that you could go with. It kept coming up over 18 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: and over when people will be like, yeah, if only 19 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: the British had had tear gas. No, I don't know 20 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 1: if you're frustrated by my tone with that and are like, 21 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,200 Speaker 1: I can't believe you're sounding so political. I'm like, as 22 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:38,400 Speaker 1: have you listened to our podcasts so often talking about 23 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 1: labor disputes and civil rights disputes and all kinds of 24 00:01:41,840 --> 00:01:44,680 Speaker 1: people who were trying to say, hey, we would like 25 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 1: some basic dignity, or we would like to be paid 26 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: fairly for our labor and not exploited, and so so 27 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: so often that is what the tear gas was being 28 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: used for to make those people go away. Yeah, I mean, 29 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: it is what it is, right, Like, it's It's one 30 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 1: of those things that I think is um particularly hot 31 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: button and politicized at the moment because we are living 32 00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: in a time where every issue that comes up seems 33 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: to cause people more often than not to immediately want 34 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: to separate to their two camps and bicker over it. 35 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: But like, if you look at the science, it's really hard, 36 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 1: in my opinion, to be able to justify this as 37 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: a rational and reasonable thing, particularly when you consider all 38 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: of the instances you discussed in the outline of just 39 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: really really improper use and misuse. Yeah. I read so 40 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,600 Speaker 1: many accounts um as I, and they could not all 41 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: make it into the episode. There was no possible way 42 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: you can have an entire podcast. I keep doing these topics, 43 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,919 Speaker 1: that could be an entire podcast, an entire new podcast. 44 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 1: That's just co and tell pro that's gonna be a 45 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 1: hundred episodes long, an entire new podcast. It's just gonna 46 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: be tear gas. It's also going to be a hundred 47 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: episodes long. That was stuff like you know, miners striking 48 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 1: because they were being exploited, and law enforcement using their 49 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: entire stock of tear gas against them and then ordering more. 50 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: And it's like, even if you take, like the basic 51 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,920 Speaker 1: take of of this is safer than other techniques when 52 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: used correctly, like we're seeing over and over and over 53 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: nationally televised at this point, incorrect use of like people 54 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 1: spraying tear gas directly into people's faces, people launching tear 55 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: gas grenades directly at people, uh, kettling demonstrators, and then 56 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 1: tear gas Like, yeah, none of that is the correct 57 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 1: way to use it. If you believe that there is 58 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 1: a correct way to gas people. Yeah, we have gotten 59 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: so far away from that initial idea of it is 60 00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: a last resort before we resort to wept to like 61 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: physical weapons that are lethal. That's not even a part 62 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: of the equation anymore. Now. I feel like we should 63 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: never ever launch any of these. This could be a 64 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: whole series podcast on its own unless we um makes 65 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,239 Speaker 1: sure that you have a therapist standing by it all times. 66 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,719 Speaker 1: It makes you so angry, and I worry. I am 67 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: not volunteering myself for any of these hypothetical, entirely new 68 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 1: podcasts like that would be a job for someone else. Um, 69 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: because just keeping our show going at this point is like, 70 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,320 Speaker 1: my mind is like, why is everything so hard? It's 71 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: very hard. One of the topics that we talked about 72 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: today was Jacob Coxey and his army. Yeah, his army 73 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 1: of protesters. UM. I hope people do not mind that 74 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: I included as part of this a large chunk of 75 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: his oration as he had written it. And the reason 76 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:08,559 Speaker 1: that I wanted to do that was because when I 77 00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,719 Speaker 1: was researching this and I was reading it, I was 78 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: struck by how very similar it is two discussions that 79 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: we are having today, particularly the quote about the rich 80 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,919 Speaker 1: only getting richer the poor only getting poorer in the 81 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:24,280 Speaker 1: middle class vanishing by the end of the century, which 82 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: was intended to reference the nineteenth century, and yet that 83 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: same rhetoric is ever present. Yeah, it's as we read 84 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:36,479 Speaker 1: that part in the studio just now. Um. I resisted 85 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:38,839 Speaker 1: the urg just to say we are still talking about 86 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: this when we got to that part. Yeah, it's a um. 87 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: In some ways, I was telling my husband last night, like, 88 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: in some ways it makes me so desponding, like we 89 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: never solve our problems. We just cycled through them and 90 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: in the other in another way, which is again maybe 91 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: a Pollyanna way to look at it, part of me 92 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 1: was like, well, we and always solve the problems, but 93 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: we do keep going. Uh, and hopefully it's getting incrementally 94 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: better with each cycle. That is my hopeful take on it. 95 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: That could change by the end of the day because 96 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: I'm not in any sort of consistent headspace regarding our 97 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:19,280 Speaker 1: current world. Changed within the hour, within the finishing recording 98 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 1: and going to eat lunch by the time I finished 99 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,839 Speaker 1: this sentence, I will need to call my therapist. That's 100 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: entirely possible. But the other thing that I wanted to 101 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: talk about in relation to Coxy's army is parallels that 102 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: people have drawn to the Wizard of Oz, which sounds 103 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 1: a little cuckoo have you heard before? I don't know 104 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:44,479 Speaker 1: this at all, so l Frank Baum, who nobody knew 105 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 1: who he was at this point was apparently one of 106 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: the spectators at this march. And uh, there have been 107 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: theories and interpretations of his book, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. 108 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: That's jest that he was really drawing from that experience 109 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: and his knowledge of this march to inform the structure 110 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: of his book. So the idea was that, um, the 111 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: tin Man represented industrial workers, the Scarecrow represented farmers, the 112 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: Cowardly Lion represented William Jennings Bryan, and the Wizard of 113 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: Oz was the president and that this and this is 114 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 1: a really interesting thing. One thing that that people always 115 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: us and go no, no, this is absolutely Here's the 116 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: evidence is that in the book, Dorothy's shoes were silver, 117 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: they were not ruby slippers like we see in the movie. 118 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 1: And they correlate that to um the ongoing debate about 119 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:53,239 Speaker 1: the embracing of silver as a currency standard over gold, 120 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: and how that all caused a rush on gold. And uh, 121 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: it's an interesting theory. These didn't come up until quite 122 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: a ways after the book had been out, and I 123 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: don't think that L. Frank Baum ever commented on them, 124 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: or was even alive when they started to arise, But 125 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: it's an interesting thing to consider I could see where 126 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: being part of a momentous event like that, even just 127 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 1: as a bystander prettily in a city where like the 128 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: whole city was kind of um enraptured in this moment 129 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: of this march to the capitol, might inform your later work. 130 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 1: But we'll never know, as I had a wonderful professor 131 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: in college who when people would talk about the author's intents, 132 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 1: particularly related to older literature, would say, the author's dead, 133 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: so we can't ask him, and if he were here, 134 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: he would lie anyway, um suggesting that, like, you know, 135 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 1: you can interpret stuff however you want. You just had 136 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: to make a solid case about it, which is kind 137 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: of a fun thing. So you could make that case 138 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: that there are parallels there and that the book is 139 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:03,080 Speaker 1: somehow related to this moment in in Protest history, or 140 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: it could be a coincidence, or it could be a coincidence, 141 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: or it could have been a completely unconscious thing where 142 00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: he pulled from some concepts of of that those ideologies 143 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: of like wanting something that you needed to get from 144 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: someone else. We just don't know. But I thought that 145 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: was a fascinating thing, and it didn't really fit in 146 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: the actual episode but I was so captivated by that 147 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,720 Speaker 1: concept that I wanted to make sure we mentioned it. Uh. 148 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 1: You know, literary interpretation is in and of itself, a 149 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 1: fascinating field and one that I really really enjoyed when 150 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: I was in college. That was really one of my 151 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: favorite things about my literature degree. But then there are 152 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 1: also times when I talk to people who are legitimate 153 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,920 Speaker 1: heavy hitters in that field and I'm like, oh, I'm 154 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 1: I'm just a dilettant. I'm out like, but you know, 155 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: it makes it an interesting way, particularly to relate in 156 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: this case to history. So if that gives you a 157 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 1: moment of entertainment, I am delighted. If it doesn't, I 158 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: apologize stuff you missed in History Class is a production 159 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, 160 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 161 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.