Speaker 1: Hey, listeners, Please note that today's episode contains topics surrounding
Speaker 1: suicide that some people may find disturbing, and if you
Speaker 1: are someone you know are struggling, call or text nine
Speaker 1: to eight eight for the National Suicide Prevention Hotline.
Speaker 2: And That's what You Really Missed with Jenna.
Speaker 3: And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1: Welcome to and That's what You're Really miss podcast. Hello Kevin, Hello,
Speaker 1: Today we have a great one serious one. We are
Speaker 1: talking to Max Adler about his performance in season three,
Speaker 1: episode fourteen on My Way.
Speaker 2: About being bullied and then being driven to a very
Speaker 2: dark place, and hearing about how he got there, how
Speaker 2: he prepped, how what the filming of it was like,
Speaker 2: all of that, things that we have not been privy to.
Speaker 3: I'm very fascinated to know all that, and I hope
Speaker 3: this is illuminating and informative for all those Glee fans
Speaker 3: who know this episode and know these scenes and the
Speaker 3: seriousness and great performance that he gave.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, we had to bring you back for this episode.
Speaker 1: We just recapped it. But your performance was so I
Speaker 1: don't even know the word. It was really compelling, really
Speaker 1: well done, just really beautiful, and so we wanted to
Speaker 1: talk to you about the making.
Speaker 4: Of Thank you for your kind words. I appreciate that
Speaker 4: very much. Thank you.
Speaker 3: Yes, the whole time I was thinking too, Like last
Speaker 3: time we talked, we really got to start the conversation
Speaker 3: of how serious of a trained you know, you're trained
Speaker 3: actor and you're coming into the show and getting like
Speaker 3: heavy things in the part of coming in not knowing
Speaker 3: when you're going to be back, that whole thing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: but every time you come in like casual super Bowl episode,
Speaker 3: gigantic episode for you, and you come to get this episode,
Speaker 3: which is a competition, there's the quinn of it all.
Speaker 3: But you then have again this huge standout moment like
Speaker 3: you never come in just to say a line or two,
Speaker 3: and like it started like a slush, but you showed
Speaker 3: too much. You showed how good you were and they're like, okay.
Speaker 1: You exposed yourself.
Speaker 4: I was like, yeah, well, if you're going to expose yourself,
Speaker 4: that's the.
Speaker 1: Way it exactly.
Speaker 3: So take us through this this process of when you
Speaker 3: got this script. Was there any sort of call from
Speaker 3: anyone to be like, hey, I mean, yeah, I know
Speaker 3: I'm assuming not no, but I'm really just interested from
Speaker 3: like I really like to get into this from like
Speaker 3: the acting standpoint, like how you got into this?
Speaker 5: Yeah, well I worked on the role a lot, you know,
Speaker 5: with my acting coach, and obviously a lot of like
Speaker 5: Fro've never been kissed really on I really kind of,
Speaker 5: you know, figured that this is pretty dark, like this
Speaker 5: guy is, you know, closeted and dealing with the Midwest
Speaker 5: and the family and the friends and the football team,
Speaker 5: and you know it's it's pretty pretty bad and pretty
Speaker 5: scary and pretty brutal. And then you know, at that
Speaker 5: time in the world there was actually tons of cyber
Speaker 5: bullying happening and suicides and Jamie Roademmeier and I mean
Speaker 5: I met his family at like the Glad Awards, and
Speaker 5: I remember, you know, Ellen was talking about it in
Speaker 5: interson Cooper and I was like, Froski is like going there,
Speaker 5: but you know, they're never going to go there on.
Speaker 4: A Fox show and like a comedy, like, no way
Speaker 4: are they going to do that.
Speaker 5: But like, I'm going to play it like that because
Speaker 5: that's kind of how I feel like doing it justice
Speaker 5: and kind of grounded and kind of gives me like
Speaker 5: this you know, little secret that I'm like hiding, you know,
Speaker 5: while I'm filming, and then I got the call from
Speaker 5: Darren actually I think it was Darren who got the
Speaker 5: script before me, and was like, dude, like, have you
Speaker 5: seen the script?
Speaker 4: And I was like, no, not yet.
Speaker 5: He was like, I'm like peruising it like I'm on set,
Speaker 5: but like something like you're like killing yourself and I'm
Speaker 5: like singing to you.
Speaker 4: I'm like what, like what what?
Speaker 5: And so that was like the first time that I
Speaker 5: heard there was you know, that was like a suicide attempt.
Speaker 4: And then I got the script and then.
Speaker 5: Again I was just kind of like thankful because I
Speaker 5: was like, good that they're they're going there.
Speaker 4: I thought it was brave.
Speaker 5: I thought it was you know, genuine to the character
Speaker 5: and representative, representative representing what people are actually going through
Speaker 5: and struggling with. And I knew again, you know, a
Speaker 5: lot of weight on my shoulders and had a big
Speaker 5: responsibility to do it right. And I remember talking to
Speaker 5: Brad Vieker like in a golf cart outside at night
Speaker 5: for like an hour and a half before we went
Speaker 5: into film. Amazing, Yeah, and just like really getting into
Speaker 5: that mindset and like being vulnerable with each other and
Speaker 5: talking about you know, like shitting days we've had and
Speaker 5: like dark moments and dark times and just like how
Speaker 5: you can just like you stare up at the ceiling
Speaker 5: and like get lost like for hours and like your
Speaker 5: mind just goes to dark places. And then that's when
Speaker 5: he like got the production design team to like put
Speaker 5: the airplanes up there and kind of like give that
Speaker 5: like I would just like, you know, stare off and
Speaker 5: like you know, go down the dark spirals and he
Speaker 5: kind of yeah, he just.
Speaker 4: Let me do my thing, and.
Speaker 5: You know, and then yeah, the guy playing my dad,
Speaker 5: Daniel Roebuck, was an incredible actor, and I just remember
Speaker 5: him like streaming my name and.
Speaker 4: Just like the emotion in his voice.
Speaker 5: And you know, the most powerful thing to me is
Speaker 5: like when you know anyone you're on set, like there's
Speaker 5: like like the Burly crew guys and like the boom
Speaker 5: up like gives you like that nod and he's.
Speaker 4: Kind of fears and.
Speaker 5: He was like, you know, he's like yeah, like that
Speaker 5: was the stuff, like oh ship, like okay, like this
Speaker 5: nothing I did something.
Speaker 4: Good you know to get to get the boom oup nod.
Speaker 5: So yeah, and I know, I think they put like
Speaker 5: the Trevor Project hotline you know, or the National Suicide
Speaker 5: Prevention Hotline at the end, and I just was so touched.
Speaker 5: I remember like the calls like they said, you know,
Speaker 5: it's spikes. Like right after that episode, it was like
Speaker 5: it went up like eighty percent people were you know,
Speaker 5: calling for help.
Speaker 4: So you know, yeah, incredible, incredible experience.
Speaker 1: Must have made you feel like you were representing, like
Speaker 1: you said, being a role model to hear the response
Speaker 1: of people actually reaching out and asking for help, right.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, because like the whole thing is like you're
Speaker 5: trying to make a difference and save lives and you know,
Speaker 5: show people that there is hope or you know, you
Speaker 5: see one person like you know, when when Chris Sculfer
Speaker 5: is talking to me in the hospital, it's just like
Speaker 5: just you know, it also shows people that if they're
Speaker 5: there for the person in trouble, you could save a life.
Speaker 5: And I thought that was a big thing feedback from
Speaker 5: too of like you know, if you're worried about someone,
Speaker 5: like do reach out, like don't hesitate, like you know,
Speaker 5: talk to them, ask if they're okay, let them know
Speaker 5: you're there, give them that kind of you know, open
Speaker 5: line of communication, because like that could save a life.
Speaker 4: And so yeah, I thought there's a lot of lessons
Speaker 4: that came out of the episode.
Speaker 5: And you know, yeah, to this day, I still get people,
Speaker 5: you know, thanking me for being alive and portraying that
Speaker 5: role and you know, patching things up with their family
Speaker 5: or having their parents see them in a new light
Speaker 5: and just like, yes, it's it's pretty powerful.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean that montage with you in the
Speaker 1: actual attempt scene with in tandem Darren singing coughs here?
Speaker 1: Had you listen to that song previous to shooting and
Speaker 1: previous to it airing? Did you know that song?
Speaker 4: I didn't know this song. I can't remember. Maybe I
Speaker 4: listened to it.
Speaker 5: I didn't listen to Darren's version, you know, I didn't
Speaker 5: see But yeah, watching that was incredible too, and getting
Speaker 5: brad with the editing, like you know, like the spot
Speaker 5: that I watched it again recently and is you know,
Speaker 5: I like to when like the drum hits and I
Speaker 5: slammed the laptop and the drum hits and I hit it.
Speaker 5: I was like, gosh, so really, you know, you say,
Speaker 5: every every moment is like and impactful. And Darren's performing,
Speaker 5: I mean, he's just you know, his face is you know,
Speaker 5: filled with passion and his movie like he's just he's
Speaker 5: giving everything and so you know he always does, and
Speaker 5: I knew I had to match that, and so yeah,
Speaker 5: that's a you know, an amazing montage. And I just think, like, again, Brad,
Speaker 5: like you know, seeing that word, you know, fag on
Speaker 5: the locker and being around all those background actors like
Speaker 5: I it's like you feel it. You walk into the
Speaker 5: room and you're just like with a bunch of like
Speaker 5: imposing dudes looking at you. And I was I was like, yeah,
Speaker 5: there's like no acting required, like you're you're just you're
Speaker 5: in this place of like you know, awkwardness and vulnerability.
Speaker 5: And then against Brad's choice to like slow that down
Speaker 5: and just kind of like you know, see like the
Speaker 5: world coming out from underneath karossity. Yeah, I'm just something
Speaker 5: I'm very very proud of. It's it was a it
Speaker 5: was a cool moment. I think it was executed, you know,
Speaker 5: really well by the whole team Dream Team.
Speaker 3: Are you someone that can walk away at the end
Speaker 3: of the day or after filming one of those scenes
Speaker 3: and shake it and be you know, leave it on
Speaker 3: this sound stage or doing something I've never had to
Speaker 3: do something that intense, and I think like doing something
Speaker 3: that intense, I feel like it might be hard for
Speaker 3: some people to just shake go home to your normal, right.
Speaker 5: It was harder life leading up to it because as
Speaker 5: as you know, like you know, there's so much waiting
Speaker 5: in the trailer on that set, and it was the
Speaker 5: thing where I was like, you know, called in at
Speaker 5: like eleven am, but didn't shoot until like eight pm.
Speaker 5: And so it's like that was like the exhausting thing
Speaker 5: of like just staying in this like place like never
Speaker 5: knowing like when that non comes and.
Speaker 4: You have to go, like you know, because you're always.
Speaker 3: Just right there on the edge ready to do it until.
Speaker 5: You get to we're ready for you. I was like, oh,
Speaker 5: you know, so like you're waiting for like hours and
Speaker 5: it's like lunch and it's like, you know, I'm like
Speaker 5: do I do I fall asleep?
Speaker 4: Like do it?
Speaker 5: You know?
Speaker 4: Do I make a call?
Speaker 5: Like listening probably two explosions in the sky or like
Speaker 5: Trickter or some kind of like you know, said music
Speaker 5: and just like yeah, it was like it was exhaust
Speaker 5: I remember like being exhausted going to film that because
Speaker 5: I was just like in this place and like trying
Speaker 5: to like keep the energy and then like the nerves
Speaker 5: of like I have to do that.
Speaker 4: You know, you have one shot to like get it right.
Speaker 4: Are there going to be tears? Am I gonna cry?
Speaker 4: Is it going to be believable?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 4: Am I going to represent? Am I gonna leave disappointed?
Speaker 5: And then I remember like feeling really good about it,
Speaker 5: So I actually was able to shake.
Speaker 4: I was it was like the thing of like.
Speaker 5: Just like this release, I was like this like you know,
Speaker 5: guitartists driving home of like blasting like fun you know,
Speaker 5: like happy music, and just like like like yeah, like
Speaker 5: I think I just crushed that, and like I'm like
Speaker 5: I can like let it go and like I feel
Speaker 5: good and like, you know, however, it turns out like
Speaker 5: I think I gave it my all and like I
Speaker 5: was prepared and that kind of thing. So it's actually
Speaker 5: easier to shake, but like yeah, like the builds up
Speaker 5: to it, it was like yeah, it's like so so hard,
Speaker 5: and then you know it's like even in between takes
Speaker 5: is hard because you know it's like make a pairs,
Speaker 5: like so what are you doing this weekend?
Speaker 4: And I'm like no, no, like you know, like just
Speaker 4: don't please, you know.
Speaker 5: So I was like that, I'm like want to be
Speaker 5: nice to everyone, but it was like that was like
Speaker 5: a thing where I'm like like no, just please, you know,
Speaker 5: don't don't talk to me like please, you know. So
Speaker 5: there's like that awkwardness. But luckily I remember, like the
Speaker 5: set was just like my room, and so it was
Speaker 5: kind of just I would just like go in the
Speaker 5: room and just like sit there and wait until all again.
Speaker 4: Everyone was really respectful.
Speaker 5: And yeah, so yeah, I was kind of able to
Speaker 5: shake it afterwards, but leading up was scary and intimidating.
Speaker 5: And again, you know at that at that point in
Speaker 5: the show, there's a lot of eyeballs on.
Speaker 4: That show, you know, and so I was like, oh man,
Speaker 4: this could go either way. So it was like the
Speaker 4: nerves and like I have to deliver.
Speaker 3: I also think that scene, the scene, right, it was
Speaker 3: also a testament to the actual suicide scene, the attempted scene. Yeah,
Speaker 3: It's one of those things that again shows how powerful
Speaker 3: when used the right way, how music paired with a
Speaker 3: storyline like this can be even more impactful. And having
Speaker 3: Darren sing that song the way he was, like you said,
Speaker 3: how he was performing it with your performance and the
Speaker 3: weight of that was really just so powerful, powerful thing
Speaker 3: and it was like such the correct music selection, yes
Speaker 3: for that and having Beaker. I think it's and we've
Speaker 3: talked about this for years now about how that set
Speaker 3: was crazy and you're shooting a lot, you're doing music
Speaker 3: videos every day, and it's so nice to hear that
Speaker 3: he spent a time and a half with you being
Speaker 3: able to talk through that because that, I think, as
Speaker 3: an actor and as a director is so helpful to
Speaker 3: inform what both of you are doing and therefore like
Speaker 3: what everybody else is then feeling shooting it and then
Speaker 3: what we're feeling watching it, and I it's such a
Speaker 3: gift be able to have find that time to do that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and like to command that kind of you know,
Speaker 5: the respect amongst the crew that he would command and
Speaker 5: like you know, like, yeah, everyone take this seriously, like
Speaker 5: be quiet, Like it was like a very like you.
Speaker 4: Know, we're not we're not playing around now, like this
Speaker 4: is a serious moment.
Speaker 5: And again, yeah, like just for him to share things
Speaker 5: that he shared with me, And I was like looking
Speaker 5: over here because there was a there's like a plaque
Speaker 5: but him and I I'm trying to find where it is.
Speaker 5: But him and I got invited actually for like three
Speaker 5: years after that episode air to Sacramento to this like
Speaker 5: event called like Directing Change, and it was like all
Speaker 5: these high schools from all over the nation that were
Speaker 5: filming short films about mental health awareness and raising awareness
Speaker 5: about stigmas. And him and I were like invited, you
Speaker 5: know with like all the politicians of the state, and
Speaker 5: you know we were up there doing that because yeah,
Speaker 5: like that that episode had a lot of impact, So yeah,
Speaker 5: he really want the perfect guy. And honestly, it's weird
Speaker 5: because it's like now I hear it and it's all
Speaker 5: I can think about is is you know, the show
Speaker 5: and the scene, but it's strange things.
Speaker 4: I feel like if you heard it on you know,
Speaker 4: on its own, it's like not.
Speaker 5: Really a sad song, right, it's kind of like pumped
Speaker 5: up and like you know, like you're you're moving or grooving,
Speaker 5: and but it's like, yeah, something about again just that
Speaker 5: the montage and the way Darren did it and the
Speaker 5: lighting and and you know, and then cutting to me,
Speaker 5: but like like a bold choice, like and I don't
Speaker 5: know how they ended up choosing that.
Speaker 4: I didn't either.
Speaker 3: I mean because I was a big fan of that
Speaker 3: song before going in and it's completely reframed. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: viewed that. I'm like, oh, that is crazy that you
Speaker 3: can just switch how a song feels to you after
Speaker 3: you've heard it and enjoyed it and been a fan
Speaker 3: of it, right, and you hear it.
Speaker 5: Differently, right, like lyricly like Life's Too Short, like costs
Speaker 5: Europe going to be like oh man, like this is
Speaker 5: it kind of hits differently now, you know.
Speaker 3: It reminded me on a much different level. But when
Speaker 3: we first start of the show and the I think,
Speaker 3: do you know what I'm gonna say, Jenna, like keep
Speaker 3: holding on was like the first like emotional sort of
Speaker 3: thing we did, and it was like an Avril Avine song.
Speaker 3: I'm like, this is fine, yeah, like I love this
Speaker 3: song and we shot it and like, oh, this feels
Speaker 3: this is a song I've lived with for ages and
Speaker 3: now this feels very different. And that was sort of
Speaker 3: the starting point for all of us to realize how
Speaker 3: the music could evoke those emotions in this and.
Speaker 1: Drive like a focus of emotion. Yeah, exactly what.
Speaker 4: I feel about. What was it? Like the Florence and
Speaker 4: the Machine song that she's like a propella about like.
Speaker 5: I hear that now and I like, you know, get
Speaker 5: emotional thinking about that, so totally.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was also something about like Blaine singing it,
Speaker 3: the character Blaine singing it while Kowski is attempting this thing.
Speaker 3: Was also just like a really beautiful and poetic yes moment.
Speaker 3: There's just so many layers to that scene.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And then again, yeah, the scene was Chris in the hospital,
Speaker 5: like my recovery was also the same same thing, like
Speaker 5: you was just I love that scene. Yeah, I was like, man,
Speaker 5: it was like, you know, he's just he's so good
Speaker 5: and brought it. And again the same kind of thing,
Speaker 5: just like you know, we wouldn't talk in between takes
Speaker 5: and he would just come in and we would cry
Speaker 5: and you know you're staying in that place.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I just I love that scene. I love
Speaker 4: the whole episode.
Speaker 1: You and Chris had such dynamic scenes together. It started
Speaker 1: from you, you know, bullying him and you know, beating
Speaker 1: him to him. You guys crying in a hospital room
Speaker 1: saying like I love you and I'm going to be
Speaker 1: there for you and I'm going to help you through this.
Speaker 1: It's a it's a really beautiful storyline and a beautiful
Speaker 1: arc for character, you know, because kind of our our
Speaker 1: relationships other than like you know, the curtain births of
Speaker 1: the world, like they they're so short lived that you
Speaker 1: don't get to see those arcs of partners seeing partners
Speaker 1: like you know, Rachel and Finn. We want I wanted
Speaker 1: more of those, but I really do get that with
Speaker 1: Krovski and Kurt, it's really really nice.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's quite it's quite dark.
Speaker 5: And again it's like, you know, I just feel like, uh,
Speaker 5: you know, to this day, I'm still hearing from people
Speaker 5: like you know, I knew a Krowski in high school.
Speaker 5: It's like people are looking at bullies differently, or the
Speaker 5: bully is looking at the person he bullied differently and like.
Speaker 4: Apologizing like that.
Speaker 5: That Yeah, that that whole storyline and that episode in particular,
Speaker 5: I mean still has like these like ripples through uh
Speaker 5: you know, through society, and it's nuts.
Speaker 4: It's like so crazy. Yeah, I'm still here talking about it.
Speaker 1: Do you remember watching the episode for the first time
Speaker 1: when it aired. I'm sure nobody showed it to you, Brad.
Speaker 5: I think Brad sent me just that suicide montage look
Speaker 5: and I remember I think, did you know.
Speaker 4: You were capable of doing that? And like that stuff?
Speaker 3: That's so sweet?
Speaker 5: I was like so touched because I was like, what,
Speaker 5: like I always thought, I like, that's why I moved here,
Speaker 5: like trying to become an actor, Like I know, yeah
Speaker 5: I thought I could. Like I'm just thankful like someone
Speaker 5: gave me the opportunity to do it, and you know,
Speaker 5: it like worked, I worked.
Speaker 4: But I just always remember that beause I thought that
Speaker 4: was like so.
Speaker 5: Sweet that that he said that and he like showed
Speaker 5: me that, and I was I was like, I was, yeah,
Speaker 5: I was pretty proud of that, I know, like honest,
Speaker 5: but yeah, like I was like that turned out like really.
Speaker 1: Well, so yeah, well you're you're so you know, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of technicality to your work, a lot of
Speaker 1: craft like a lot of of work that goes into
Speaker 1: your process. So it seems like somebody like you and
Speaker 1: maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong, like being
Speaker 1: able to watch your work back. It's all the steps
Speaker 1: in the process that you are seeing those come to
Speaker 1: life and come to you know, and read hopefully the
Speaker 1: way that you you tried to convey. Whereas you know,
Speaker 1: there are people who just throw it to the wall
Speaker 1: and are like, oh, I can't watch that because I
Speaker 1: didn't really put in the work, but you do, so
Speaker 1: i'd imagine it's it's sometimes you can like switch those
Speaker 1: the way that you watch yourself.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I guess it's like seeing if what
Speaker 5: you tried to convey God convey, because I guess when
Speaker 5: you talk about the process or the craft, it's like
Speaker 5: I'm not like, you know, nothing crazy, but like it's
Speaker 5: more just about like I go through it and kind
Speaker 5: of like, uh, map out like all my thoughts, you know,
Speaker 5: because I remember like one of some acting coach told me,
Speaker 5: like feel thoughts, don't think feelings. So it was like
Speaker 5: not you know, don't think like so hurt angry. It
Speaker 5: was I feel like, oh my gosh, like my life
Speaker 5: is ending, or like oh my god, like this this,
Speaker 5: you know, this is the signer of the Facebook, like
Speaker 5: you know, my mom's gonna It was like like those
Speaker 5: thoughts and like it'll come across on camera and the
Speaker 5: camera sees everything, and so it was one of those
Speaker 5: things like, yeah, like mapping that out of like from
Speaker 5: walking into the room to seeing it on the laptop
Speaker 5: to like you know, getting the belt like this suit,
Speaker 5: Like what is this guy?
Speaker 4: Because there's no words for me, like you know, it's
Speaker 4: like all internally.
Speaker 5: So it was like, you know, my script was like
Speaker 5: marked up, you know, with like paragraphs and monologues of
Speaker 5: like where his head is at. So it's just kind
Speaker 5: of like watching them to see like did that come across?
Speaker 4: And like, you know, I think it did. But it's
Speaker 4: also cool because.
Speaker 5: I feel like everyone could have their own interpretation of
Speaker 5: you know, what they think he's feeling or what they
Speaker 5: would be feeling. But you know, like so it's like
Speaker 5: that fine line of like having some thought of specificity
Speaker 5: but not like showing it too much and like you know,
Speaker 5: letting the audience kind of like be able to use
Speaker 5: their imagination and go there too, and not.
Speaker 4: Like beating them over the head.
Speaker 5: Was like this is what I'm feeling right now, Like
Speaker 5: I want you to feel the same thing, you know.
Speaker 4: So yeah, it's like but again, you know, Brad's the man.
Speaker 4: Brad kind of like let's you do a bunch of
Speaker 4: different takes and.
Speaker 1: You know, it's just a very safe director, I'd say, right,
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 5: Yeah, he had never been kissed too, and I just yeah,
Speaker 5: like it's just like one of those you know sometimes
Speaker 5: you just find find that guy that.
Speaker 4: Like you just work together really well with and he's
Speaker 4: that guy.
Speaker 1: So you guys had those both those episodes to like
Speaker 1: build the rapport the trust, you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and you know you know he also too, was
Speaker 5: like coming from like editing and you know it was
Speaker 5: kind of like in the background during like nip Talk
Speaker 5: and all that and like this this. You know, these
Speaker 5: are like big opportunities for him too, So that was nice,
Speaker 5: like someone that's also like has a lot of steak,
Speaker 5: you know, big stakes and like a lot of you know,
Speaker 5: shoot in the game to make this work and to
Speaker 5: like prove himself as a director instead of like totally
Speaker 5: eric Eric Sults is amazing, but you know something like that,
Speaker 5: like he's proven himself right, so like you know, whether
Speaker 5: this is a great episode or not, he's still Eric Stultz.
Speaker 5: But with Brad, I felt like he was like like.
Speaker 4: You'll get called back to do more episodes.
Speaker 5: So it was like, yeah, everyone's just kind of brought
Speaker 5: you know, their a game, I thought for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you remember the initial reaction to after that episode,
Speaker 3: like if your friend's family, what people were saying to
Speaker 3: you after that ered.
Speaker 4: It was more like the Trevor Project impact. You know,
Speaker 4: glad I realized have this mug. But like doctor.
Speaker 5: Phil, you know, like me on the like doctor Trum like, yeah,
Speaker 5: I'm sure you talking about yeah, just like cyber bullying.
Speaker 5: And so I was like, all of a sudden, I
Speaker 5: was like this, you know, spokesman again for cyber bully.
Speaker 3: How did that feel? Because it is a strange thing
Speaker 3: to like you're going, you're hired as an actor to
Speaker 3: go do this specific storyline. All of a sudden, it's like,
Speaker 3: now you're the face of this.
Speaker 1: Go speak on right, right.
Speaker 4: I mean honored, you know.
Speaker 5: Really, I was like I was seriously and I was
Speaker 5: talking to people about, you know, what they were going
Speaker 5: through if if you know, they attempted suicide and and
Speaker 5: you know, the research of like just that hopelessness of
Speaker 5: like there's there's you know, there's nothing to live for,
Speaker 5: and there's not anyone that is going to have your
Speaker 5: back or listen to you. It's like a you know,
Speaker 5: a desperate, terrible feeling. And so yeah, I was like,
Speaker 5: if I'm going to talk about it, you know, let's uh,
Speaker 5: let's know what I'm talking about. And and you know,
Speaker 5: do it right and do it justice. And uh but yeah,
Speaker 5: because you know at that time, if you remember, like
Speaker 5: you know, twelve years ago, it's like cyber.
Speaker 4: Bullyting was kind of new.
Speaker 5: It was like this that that thing of like there
Speaker 5: was the face to face bullying and uh, you know
Speaker 5: it was like I remember, like my coach was the
Speaker 5: backin coach is kind of like you know, if you
Speaker 5: get shot by a bullet in person, you know that
Speaker 5: that hurts. But like this was like a thing like
Speaker 5: you know, bullets are just like hitting you when you're
Speaker 5: not even looking, like you know, the off, the phones off,
Speaker 5: and it's like this just this barrage of like comments
Speaker 5: and you know.
Speaker 4: Posting. It's like yeah, it's like you could you can't
Speaker 4: do anything about it.
Speaker 5: You know, it's like this paranoia of like when are
Speaker 5: they posting where they It's like a terrible, you know,
Speaker 5: terrible feeling.
Speaker 4: And so there was kind of like this.
Speaker 5: You know epidemic, I guess of suicides and suicide attempts,
Speaker 5: which is heartbreaking because these kids are so young and
Speaker 5: you know, and shelter and they have no idea.
Speaker 4: You know, there's this whole big world out there that would.
Speaker 5: Have accepted them and like they just thought that was
Speaker 5: the end at like twelve or thirteen's heartbreaking. So yeah,
Speaker 5: to get to talk about it at that time in
Speaker 5: the world was was amazing. And then yeah, it was
Speaker 5: like that Fox kind of like you know, I'm like
Speaker 5: Fox setting up interviews and you know, sending the car
Speaker 5: service and you know, driving around all the different There
Speaker 5: was like they they like got behind it too, and
Speaker 5: yeah it was pretty you know, a pretty amazing moment.
Speaker 5: But I was, yeah, I was I was proud to
Speaker 5: do it and I'm glad I got to do it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad it was you also who had that
Speaker 3: part and you know that responsibility because as people can tell,
Speaker 3: you take these things seriously. You're just like the nicest guy.
Speaker 3: You're not someone who's like I'm just gonna get on
Speaker 3: the show and be famous. I know, I have the
Speaker 3: serious part. I'm going to do it justice, give all
Speaker 3: the reality I can to it and lived experience I
Speaker 3: can to it, and talk to people and go on
Speaker 3: all these shows and actually advocate. And so that was
Speaker 3: just I think that we were all lucky to you know,
Speaker 3: be around someone like you who cared this deeply about it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, thank you. I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean
Speaker 5: it was so it was like a dream role.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 4: It's like one of those things like if I saw this,
Speaker 4: you know, in.
Speaker 5: A breakdown, I would like, please, you know, get me
Speaker 5: in probab wouldn't have wouldn't booked it, but like, you know,
Speaker 5: yeah I booked it when it was like two lines,
Speaker 5: you know, I said, talking about what are the super
Speaker 5: cuts or lulla some ridiculous line, you know, slush and
Speaker 5: and uh So it was one of those Yeah, it
Speaker 5: was like a thing where like once they took that
Speaker 5: character in that direction, it was a dream role on
Speaker 5: a dream show where like.
Speaker 4: A dream time. It was like I was like, yeah,
Speaker 4: I have to have to do this right, Like it
Speaker 4: was a crazy opportunity.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: I have a question about to go back to that
Speaker 3: scene real quick with you and Chris, because we've seen
Speaker 3: Chris and scenes where he can just sort of like
Speaker 3: switch it on and just be emotional and like how
Speaker 3: is he doing this? But this felt different to me
Speaker 3: watching it, where it felt like you were both so
Speaker 3: in it at least from a viewer standpoint. Did it
Speaker 3: feel sort of like cathartic in any way, because you
Speaker 3: had been this bully for so long, for so many
Speaker 3: years on the show, to his character of sitting there,
Speaker 3: You're in a hospital bed, You're in a place of vulnerability,
Speaker 3: and this person that you've been beating up on physically
Speaker 3: and emotionally, and obviously it's not Chris, it's Kurt. But
Speaker 3: I just like, what was that like to sort of
Speaker 3: sit in that and be in that because obviously it
Speaker 3: takes hours to film these scenes because it was just
Speaker 3: such a nice balance of your guys' work.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Like, but I kind of I think I remember
Speaker 5: like kind of like checking out from the role, and
Speaker 5: I was actually just like looking at Chris and like
Speaker 5: knowing how hard his life you know, was and is,
Speaker 5: and like you know who he is and where he
Speaker 5: grew up and like his experience and kind of like
Speaker 5: just my heartbreaking for him that he couldn't he could
Speaker 5: have been that guy, you know, like he he could
Speaker 5: have done that and uh and not made it and
Speaker 5: we never the world would never have had this calf,
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 4: And so I was just like, ah, God, like I'm
Speaker 4: gonna start crying, you know.
Speaker 5: I was just just like heartbreaking, like looking at him,
Speaker 5: being like, God, you were you were you know, probably
Speaker 5: one of those one of those guys. And also yeah,
Speaker 5: like the fact that he was there, you know, the
Speaker 5: character was there for Kurowski like and like the only
Speaker 5: one that was there you know, was just so so
Speaker 5: touching and so sweet and and an amazing arc for
Speaker 5: for the writing of it. But yeah, I he just
Speaker 5: he brought it and we both you know, I just
Speaker 5: took it very seriously. We weren't chit chatting in between
Speaker 5: like everything. We both knew it was like a big
Speaker 5: deal and had to represent. Yeah, never really you know,
Speaker 5: I don't know, like I never really talked to anyone
Speaker 5: about it, like I wish I did.
Speaker 4: I wish I would love to.
Speaker 5: Sit with you know, Ryan or Brad or you in
Speaker 5: and uh, you know, it never happened. And even I
Speaker 5: was like, man, like I would love to just talk
Speaker 5: to chrispect yo. Like we we did that, like we
Speaker 5: we had some some ship, but like no, it was
Speaker 5: just kind of like, okay, have a good day, you know.
Speaker 5: I was like, all right, we never like really discussed,
Speaker 5: you know, anything about the impact of that.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 4: We just kind of like did it and then went home.
Speaker 4: But I was, yeah, I was I.
Speaker 5: Was moved and I thought he's amazing and he was
Speaker 5: so great to work with. He's just he's like so
Speaker 5: you know, he's so natural too, Like he just he
Speaker 5: just grounded, like kind of keeps you grounded and natural.
Speaker 4: Like oh yeah. It was just like talk to you, you.
Speaker 3: Know's insane to be on the other side of that
Speaker 3: with him. He's like you are so good. He's crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's so cool too, because it was like,
Speaker 4: you know, yeah, like you said, like the show like
Speaker 4: the Jane Lynch and Nick Ball, you know, and like
Speaker 4: the craziness, but like it felt like we were shooting
Speaker 4: a different show. We're in a hospital like no suicide
Speaker 4: attempt and like you know, tears and like what the hell.
Speaker 5: Like yeah, filming, but was so cool. I was like,
Speaker 5: I'll get in like film, you know, this dream scene
Speaker 5: and like a dream role.
Speaker 4: But like on this on this musical comedy series. Uh
Speaker 4: yeah again.
Speaker 5: It's like, you know, a testament to the writers because
Speaker 5: I thought going there was so great because you know,
Speaker 5: they could have.
Speaker 4: Like topped out and like not done there. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I wonder if like they originally had him dying.
Speaker 5: I don't because after that that really wasn't much for karosity,
Speaker 5: except like the Bear and Darren weird weird things. But like,
Speaker 5: I do you wonder if like you know, they originally
Speaker 5: thought he might just kill himself, but Fox was like, no,
Speaker 5: you can't.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I don't know or like the impact that.
Speaker 3: Was for you, Yeah, let me know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll find out. I don't think that. I think
Speaker 1: the answer is no. I think I think the thing
Speaker 1: abougly is the hope that it gives people, Right, So
Speaker 1: I'm sure they could have won that route, but then
Speaker 1: you'd really be in a drama and then we really
Speaker 1: be on a different show.
Speaker 4: But what's the lesson there?
Speaker 1: Like that's that's just right, Like you're not alone, right,
Speaker 1: You're there's you're you know, there's people for you. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, I think it'd be a different show. But
Speaker 1: it's a good question. We'll find out. But that's also
Speaker 1: like we also, you know, we've been watching the past
Speaker 1: three seasons and a lot of you know, your storyline
Speaker 1: was very tied to Chris's throughout the whole thing. That's
Speaker 1: Chris's world, Like that's Chris is Glee, you know, he
Speaker 1: gets to do both, but like that Chris lives in
Speaker 1: that drama world of Glee. The and that's what makes
Speaker 1: the show just so dynamic is you have the curtain
Speaker 1: Bert scenes, the Karofsky Curt scenes, you know, the Blaine
Speaker 1: Kurt scenes, and then you have us clowns in pools
Speaker 1: on the stage.
Speaker 5: So show, Yeah, a lot of my family really started
Speaker 5: liking to lear.
Speaker 4: Like when Chris did hold.
Speaker 5: Your Hand, I think that was that was the thing
Speaker 5: that was just like, again, a beautiful song and they're like,
Speaker 5: whoa cool you're doing like fels like down right. But yeah,
Speaker 5: going back to yeah, I think like the lesson was
Speaker 5: that like a lot of like Krossty does come around
Speaker 5: to accepting himself and having help for the future and
Speaker 5: knowing like there is a life, you know, outside of
Speaker 5: this tortured world. But yeah, it was like he had
Speaker 5: to go through the suicide attempt to find that out.
Speaker 5: So I think the show was kind of like, hey,
Speaker 5: don't don't go through that attempt. Know that this is
Speaker 5: waiting for you on the other side. You know that
Speaker 5: there is there are people that will accept you. You
Speaker 5: can be yourself, you know. And again I thought it
Speaker 5: was brilliant because it was like the Midwest and as
Speaker 5: you know, there's still you know a different different world
Speaker 5: than you know, the Midwest, than LA and New York
Speaker 5: as far as acceptance, and think it was important for
Speaker 5: people to also realize that before social media, like oh,
Speaker 5: like you know this small town you know and wherever
Speaker 5: you know, there are people that think differently outside of
Speaker 5: this and like there is a place I can go
Speaker 5: where I can be safe and be myself. And so yeah,
Speaker 5: there's a lot a lot tied into it that it
Speaker 5: was pretty awesome.
Speaker 3: One of my favorite lines that I'm going to paraphrase
Speaker 3: and butcher it here is in that scene with Chris.
Speaker 3: But I think it was very very important on many levels.
Speaker 3: But you talk about how so many people, but he
Speaker 3: could have been the person who did what you did,
Speaker 3: or been the person who actually succeeded at trying to
Speaker 3: do what you did, but he never did, you know,
Speaker 3: Like he was the he stuck with it and got
Speaker 3: through it all and found his people and found his
Speaker 3: community and his friends. And I think so often in
Speaker 3: TV shows too, like Sex Education had a similar storyline
Speaker 3: where the gay character was being bullied and that guy
Speaker 3: was secretly gay and they ended up having a thing,
Speaker 3: which I think can frustrate some viewers like why is
Speaker 3: he with the abuser? But I think the flip side
Speaker 3: of that is this scene where nobody knows the experience
Speaker 3: of living through that better than a person who is
Speaker 3: living through it, and people handle it differently, and to
Speaker 3: be able to have those sort of opposite ends of
Speaker 3: the spectrum in that same situation talk to one another
Speaker 3: and confront it with one another, I think was really
Speaker 3: powerful because you see why it's hard enough, especially in
Speaker 3: the small town like this, like where the show takes place,
Speaker 3: to find someone who's gay in the same community as you,
Speaker 3: on top of being accepting of yourself, never mind all
Speaker 3: the outside forces. And I just thought I didn't remember
Speaker 3: that line from when I first saw it and seeing
Speaker 3: it now having you know, so many more shows with
Speaker 3: queer characters and queer storylines, like, ah, that's what it is, though,
Speaker 3: it's because you have people handle this differently, And yeah,
Speaker 3: unfortunately the queer kids have to be the stronger ones
Speaker 3: a lot of the time because they're the only ones
Speaker 3: supporting themselves, and sometimes they don't get through it, and
Speaker 3: other times they do and they have to pull up
Speaker 3: everybody else behind them to help them. But I just
Speaker 3: that stuck with me watching it this last time of
Speaker 3: your work, and how you said that in his recognition
Speaker 3: of that was just really powerful.
Speaker 4: Well everything you just said was very powerful, very wise
Speaker 4: and observant.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I think like, yeah, that's kind of the
Speaker 5: key thing is like that that if he was able
Speaker 5: to again like Chris himself, like like to find that
Speaker 5: acceptance within himself and like own who he is, you know,
Speaker 5: one hundred through and through, it's kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 5: like passing the baton on to the next person.
Speaker 4: That needs it.
Speaker 5: If you accept yourself, I feel like it's it's kind
Speaker 5: of like a little bit of your responsibility to help
Speaker 5: others do the same, you.
Speaker 4: Know, and and passed that on. And that's kind of
Speaker 4: what he did in that in that scene.
Speaker 3: So yeah, what's nice to see now in society. It's
Speaker 3: like Chris and Kurt were sort of unicorns back then,
Speaker 3: and now I feel like you look out in the
Speaker 3: world like there's either a lot more unicorns or this
Speaker 3: isn't such an exceptional thing in a great way. You know,
Speaker 3: this is there's a lot more people who can just
Speaker 3: be themselves at a younger age. And despite all the
Speaker 3: continuing government societal pushback.
Speaker 5: Modern Family, Like I think it was a during our
Speaker 5: while Glee was airing. Didn't like some state banned Modern
Speaker 5: Family I remember, or Georgia.
Speaker 3: That sounds about right.
Speaker 5: I'm not sure like that's what, but I remember, like
Speaker 5: I don't know if you watched the the Emmys, the Globes.
Speaker 5: I think the Emmys and that woman spoke from.
Speaker 4: Glad and you know, they're kind of saying like.
Speaker 5: People are like scared of what they don't know and
Speaker 5: if if, you know, aren't represented in media, people never
Speaker 5: see that, and so that's why there's the playing and
Speaker 5: the antagonizing and and the fear of you know, like
Speaker 5: basically you know, ignorance because they don't they don't know.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I feel like the more representation that is
Speaker 5: in media and all these shows, like, the more accepting
Speaker 5: people are.
Speaker 4: And I feel like a lot of younger people are
Speaker 4: are more confident now.
Speaker 5: I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but like the vibe
Speaker 5: is like I feel like people are kind of owning
Speaker 5: who they are more and celebrating the you know, unique
Speaker 5: differences instead of kind of hiding and trying to blend
Speaker 5: in and be like cookie cutters.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the hope, right there, was like a trail
Speaker 1: We kind of did.
Speaker 5: The trail blazing of that because you know, there was
Speaker 5: like a show where like a lot of young people
Speaker 5: watched it, and I don't I don't know if that
Speaker 5: was a I mean, yeah, there was like Wilson Cruz
Speaker 5: or like you know, there was there's like a few
Speaker 5: a few shows, but like this, I just think was
Speaker 5: like that mainstream you know, exposure.
Speaker 6: Families watch it to other right exactly, key, Yeah, for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 6: Well Max, you always thank you.
Speaker 1: No, really wonderful, beautiful job. You should be proud. We're
Speaker 1: proud of you. That's really still, like to this day
Speaker 1: watching it yesterday, like so powerful, so really impactful and beautiful.
Speaker 1: So good work. Thanks thanks for joining us and chatting
Speaker 1: about it. I think everybody will really appreciate hearing just
Speaker 1: your feelings behind the whole thing. And I hope you
Speaker 1: guys watch it. If you haven't, go back and watch it.
Speaker 3: Thanks Meg, good to see you, I'll see.
Speaker 1: I also have to say Brad Beaker, who directed that
Speaker 1: episode and many other episodes on Glee. He also did.
Speaker 1: I worked with him on a couple of like more
Speaker 1: uh serious, more dramatic scenes, and he's really so caring
Speaker 1: and I don't know, gentle with his actors. He's really
Speaker 1: a safe place for his actors, and it's just it
Speaker 1: really makes for better work. I think there are just
Speaker 1: some of the things I couldn't have done without him
Speaker 1: being the director in the chair and steering the ship
Speaker 1: at the time. You feel so safe, you feel non judged.
Speaker 1: He sets a tone that feels like, no matter what
Speaker 1: you try, everything's good, everything's okay, everything susceptable, or like
Speaker 1: you're fully supported on all sides. Yes, yes, and Max,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for that, I mean, just his
Speaker 1: art and his sharing that beautiful piece of work, and
Speaker 1: also for coming on and chatting with us about you know,
Speaker 1: such a sensitive and serious subject that he really handled
Speaker 1: so beautifully.
Speaker 3: So yeah, like I said before, I'm glad it fell
Speaker 3: to him to do that, because he's handled it with
Speaker 3: grace and deep deep thought ever since. And it you know,
Speaker 3: I think that requires that and it's nice that he's
Speaker 3: taken on that mantle. Yeah, thank you Max for joining
Speaker 3: us to talk about this.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming you guys, that's what you really missed.
Speaker 3: Bye, Thanks for listening and follow us on Instagram at
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Speaker 3: write us a review and leave us five stars. See
Speaker 3: you next time.