WEBVTT - Weight for It - Lab 097 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:09.200 I'm t T and I'm Zakiyah and this is Dope Labs. 0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:14.600 Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.639 science with pop culture and a healthy dose of friendship. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.560 Today we're having a conversation that hits close to home 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:30.840 for a lot of people. We're talking about weight, body image, identity, 0:00:31.000 --> 0:00:34.920 and self acceptance. Our guest is Ronald Young Junior, who's 0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:37.280 the host of Wait for It, which is a podcast 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:40.959 that unpacks the complicated feelings we carry around in our bodies. 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.199 And it's not just weight, but waiting, the idea that 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:47.080 we're constantly postponing life until we hit a goal weight 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:48.400 or fit a certain look. 0:00:48.720 --> 0:00:50.919 This conversation is going to be a little different from 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:53.120 what you're used to here on Dope Labs. It's a 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:56.480 lot more intimate, it's more personal, and then we'll jump 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.320 into the science because there's a lot of that too 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:00.000 with this topic. 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.320 That's right, So let's go ahead and get into the recitation. 0:01:04.000 --> 0:01:07.000 Okay, So what do we know? While we know that people, 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:12.520 especially in the US, are constantly bombarded with messages about weight, 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.280 from TV to TikTok to the doctor's offices. 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.679 Yes, and we also know that those messages tend to 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:22.640 kind of frame body size as a moral issue, right, 0:01:22.680 --> 0:01:26.319 Like thenness gets tied to discipline, and then fatness is 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:30.080 anchored to laziness. And that's just not what the science 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:32.800 tells us. So let's talk about what we want to 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:36.240 know in this lab. Well, for one, outside of how 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.840 we physically our bodies are built, what are the forces 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.640 that shape how we feel about our bodies? 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:43.240 Right? 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:45.800 And I have an inkling, But I also want to 0:01:45.840 --> 0:01:48.840 talk more about how gender plays a role in all 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:49.040 of this. 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.080 Yes, and not just gender tt but where you live 0:01:52.200 --> 0:01:54.800 and what do people in your family look like? How 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.040 all of that plays a role. So that makes me 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.400 think more about the science. And I want to know 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:04.120 what the science actually say about health, metabolism, and weight. 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:11.480 I think we're ready. Let's jump into the dissection. Today. 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.360 We're talking to someone who has brought the conversation about 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:17.720 weight front and center. He's done it in a beautiful way, 0:02:17.800 --> 0:02:20.320 and his work has earned multiple awards. 0:02:20.639 --> 0:02:24.519 My name is Ronald Young Junior. I'm an audio producer, storyteller, 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:29.440 and host of the podcast Wait for It Spelled Weight. 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:33.799 I also cover pop culture and television and film on 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.519 some of my other work, including Leaving the Theater. 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.920 Podcast Yes thank you for being here. Let's start with 0:02:39.960 --> 0:02:43.320 the inspiration for Wait for It? How did the show start? 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.040 So like it's funny. I've recently had a breakthrough with 0:02:47.080 --> 0:02:50.000 my therapist a couple of weeks ago where I said, 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.520 I think that I feel like I lived my entire 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:57.040 life as if this box is going to open, and 0:02:57.080 --> 0:03:00.280 once the box opens, I'll then be happy. And she 0:03:00.360 --> 0:03:02.400 said to me, what if the box is already opened, 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:05.120 which kind of like blew my mind and really started 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:06.480 to be like, well, if the box is already opened, 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.359 then I have a I guess I'm responsible for my 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:12.840 own happiness in a lot of ways. And what I 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:15.560 realized is that interaction that I had with my therapist 0:03:15.800 --> 0:03:18.680 is really the origin story of Wait for It, because 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.600 it's a play on words obviously weight weight and weight 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:27.080 wait and the way our relationship with our body evolves 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:32.160 and also causes us to wait to start fully living 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.080 life until we lose the weight. 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.360 That whole idea of putting life on pause shows up 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.360 in the research too. Studies have found that many people 0:03:40.440 --> 0:03:45.080 delay everything from dating to job applications until they've lost weight. 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:49.320 So everything you're saying rings true. You've talked about looking 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:52.240 in the mirror and seeing a version of yourself that 0:03:52.400 --> 0:03:55.040 isn't quite real, so not thin and not fat, just 0:03:55.120 --> 0:03:58.560 not now the gap between how we feel and what's 0:03:58.600 --> 0:03:59.480 reflected back. 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:01.560 How do you think that gap is shaped? 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.480 I mean, I think it's a lot of what we 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:11.200 consume in media, like whether it's television, movies, magazines. Now 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:14.480 social media plays a huge role into it. I've been 0:04:14.480 --> 0:04:17.080 making wait for it since twenty twenty three, but I've 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.000 been I've conceived weight for it, probably in like twenty 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.840 twenty one, but I've been you know, fat and or 0:04:23.880 --> 0:04:27.039 overweight for some portion of my life, like I would 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.480 say the majority of my adult life. But even there 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:31.320 were times when I was much smaller than I am 0:04:31.400 --> 0:04:36.239 now as a child and teenager, that I still wondered 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:38.839 if my body could be or look better. And that 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:42.159 was all based on messaging I was getting from outside 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.119 of myself. And I feel like now with what social 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.159 media is doing in the ways in which the body 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:49.880 positive movement has kind of like begin to get a 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:53.840 lot quieter, and with the onset of GLP one drugs, 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:58.880 it feels like that gap between reality and our self 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:03.520 actualized image just continues to get wider and wider in 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:05.880 a way that's like completely unhealthy. 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:11.160 When I first listened to your podcast, I thought this 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:15.000 is very interesting for a man to be having this conversation. Now, 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:17.520 I am a TT probably knows what this is going. 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:21.160 I am from the South, okay, And the messages I've 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.159 always received is that men are supposed to be big, 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:27.160 Like that's just what you're supposed to be. But it's 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.719 a thought. I inherit it. I never stopped to consider it, 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.080 you know, And I'm curious about how you think gender 0:05:34.120 --> 0:05:35.680 plays a role into our self image. 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:37.920 The way that I always look at this is there's 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:41.160 this saying that came from the body positive movement that 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.120 was it's okay to be bigger than your partner. And 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.039 I remember I looked at that and I was like, 0:05:46.240 --> 0:05:49.599 that is that's obviously talking to women, Like it doesn't 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:51.760 say anything about it, but like you can look at 0:05:51.760 --> 0:05:53.599 that and say, yeah, it's okay to be bigger your partners, 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:55.520 Like yeah, they're talking about women, they're not talking about men. 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.840 Because I feel like the idea that is like kind 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:01.479 of crystallizing society is that men are supposed to be 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.440 in some form, larger than the women that they love 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.920 or like are in relationship with. Even if you think 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:11.520 about in terms of the type of men that women 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.800 will universally flock to or consider attractive, they're going to 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:15.719 be over six feet. 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:16.680 It's short kings. 0:06:16.720 --> 0:06:19.440 We know that isn't right, but that's what society tells us. 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.400 You know, Yeah, I am partial to a short can. 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:27.359 They're going to be like tall, broad shoulder. They always 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:30.760 say tall, dark, and handsome. And I feel like, as 0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.720 a result, there is this kind of idea that this 0:06:34.760 --> 0:06:39.640 idealized form of man is always going to be large 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.080 in some form, and that women are supposed to be 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.880 small in some form. But also there is grace given 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.040 to the ways in which your propotions work out if 0:06:51.040 --> 0:06:53.479 they are air quote curvy, like if you have the 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:55.680 ideal shape, you know what I mean. And I feel 0:06:55.680 --> 0:07:00.320 like it's more about what the shape is for women 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.440 than it is necessarily being fat or thin. Now, I 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.640 want to be clear, You're still marginalized in a very 0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:10.480 specific way, and there's still like ways in which even 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:12.720 if you have the ideal shape, there's still going to 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.000 be ways in which you're not represented in media or 0:07:15.040 --> 0:07:17.160 you're not going to be seen by the people that 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:19.640 you want to be seen by as anything other than 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:23.240 an object of desire or something extremely sexual or whatever. 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:24.880 You know. Like, I feel like there's all of this 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:29.280 like nonsense that gets fed into what we think we're 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:33.360 supposed to be with or supposed to look like. Very specifically, 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.520 that is one hundred percent related to gender, but it 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:40.240 doesn't really preclude kind of like those base levels of 0:07:40.360 --> 0:07:42.880 the ways in which we are kind of all generally 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:43.600 fat phobic. 0:07:44.280 --> 0:07:47.560 This is so true, And all this stuff changes really quickly. 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:49.679 I can remember the Calvin Klient ads in the nineties 0:07:49.720 --> 0:07:53.760 and early two thousands, rail thin people, and then Kirby 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.080 was in in the twenty tens, okay, and now we're 0:07:57.080 --> 0:07:59.160 seeing less of the body positive movement and more of 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.440 that thin, thin, thin messaging, and it feels like it's 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:02.440 coming from every direction. 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.920 I think that's such a great point. And I remember 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:07.720 it was a few summers ago that I was talking 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.160 to my father in law and I was trying to 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:14.560 explain to him, like how social media can really impact 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.440 your the way you view yourself, and he just didn't 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:19.520 get it. You know, he grew up with you know, 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.640 the Telegraph. He's not really on social media, so he 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:26.200 doesn't really understand like how these things play a role 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:28.920 and why it works the way that it does, like 0:08:29.000 --> 0:08:32.400 seeing someone look a certain way, how it can, you know, 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:35.439 impact how you view yourself. And it's really hard for 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:39.040 someone from his generation or generations who didn't have social 0:08:39.080 --> 0:08:45.840 media to understand the impact of media and cultural norms 0:08:45.880 --> 0:08:49.880 and the shame that comes from not fitting into these 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.040 boxes that are constantly being put in our face saying 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:54.160 this is the way you're supposed to look, this is 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:55.560 how you're suposed to act, this is how you're supposed 0:08:55.600 --> 0:08:59.240 to sound. What messages did you grow up with around 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:03.440 the whole idea of health and how have those stayed 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:03.800 with you? 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:05.840 First, I want to talk about your father in law. 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:08.080 He may not have grown up with social media, but 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.000 he did grow up with Jet magazine, Ebony magazine, and 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.959 black spotation films, And so if he doesn't see the 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:19.000 role that media plays in public image, especially as I'm sorry, 0:09:19.080 --> 0:09:20.120 is your father in law black? 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:20.959 He is not? 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.520 Okay? All right? So my assumption was that they were black. 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:26.520 But my thing is, you can take any of the 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:28.960 things that I've said and apply them to whatever the 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.600 white culture was growing up in those times. So like, 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.280 if you look at any of the magazines, films, and 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:37.960 movies that were showing women back then, it's the same 0:09:38.040 --> 0:09:40.800 role that media was playing in those days. This was 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:45.680 my bad for making that assumption. By the way, I 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.280 think for me growing up, you know, I grew up 0:09:48.320 --> 0:09:50.560 I was born in the eighties, grew up in the nineties, 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:55.440 and so I grew up with music videos, MTV, beet 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.280 and not just music videos, but also television and films. 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:02.160 And there was always there's this idea that you in 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.920 television mostly there's always like some schlubby man generally that 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:09.239 was like married to a woman who was conventionally attractive. 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:12.080 Like there was always like, oh hot wife type thing. 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:18.280 That messaging always was incongruent to what I actually saw 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.280 in life, Like I rarely saw like I'm like, I 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:23.880 don't really see a bunch of like fat men out 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.600 here with like conventionally attractive wives in the way that 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.640 it's presented to me on television. Also, it felt like 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:34.679 in movies, I saw less fat men in movies unless 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.640 they were specifically being funny or had a lot of money, 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.760 Like if those two circumstances weren't there. I just saw 0:10:41.880 --> 0:10:45.280 less of them generally. And I grew up straight sized 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.400 for the most part. Like I always thought I was fat, 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.640 but like, if you go back, I'll show you pictures, 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:51.080 you'll be like Ronald, you were not fat. You were 0:10:51.280 --> 0:10:54.360 definitely a straight sized child and teenager. So but I 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:56.439 feel like I was always kind of fighting this constant 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:58.800 battle of the bulge in my head or thinking that 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:00.960 I needed to have a barrel chest and be like 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.480 very like like have abs. All of that. That was 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.200 the types of messaging I was growing up with, because 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:10.600 alongside not seeing fat men, I grew up with Morris 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:15.360 Chestnut and Tay Diggs and you know, Shamar Moore, like 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.760 all of these folks that if you go into, uh, 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:23.439 you know, the barbershop where I was reading Jet magazine magazine, 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.080 like I was just like, well, obviously, this is what 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.880 we're supposed to be going towards. And you mixed that 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:34.560 with music videos. It all gave this idea of like, ideally, 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:36.840 this is what women want and this is what a 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.320 man is supposed to be. So my relationship with media 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:42.880 was like based on the information. Again that was just 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:44.839 constantly being a fantom me. 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:02.520 Growing up, all the women around me were curvier women, 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:05.319 and that's like my grandma, her sisters, all of that. 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:08.720 But then I distinctively remember seeing Aliyah modeling and a 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:11.679 Tommy Hill figure tube top, and when I took my 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:14.640 tank top up, I said, one of these things is 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:19.320 not like the other. Okay, And Ronald, you said something 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.120 that was really interesting when you said how men show 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:24.440 up in movies that are overweight and having a lot 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.199 of money because there is a sthetic labor and that's 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:31.120 a thing where people are being hired to look apart, 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:33.560 and we use that to justify a lot of things. 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.320 So we use it to justify not hiring people who 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:39.960 are overweight or who are not the right weight, whatever 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:42.480 that means to somebody who are not the race you 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.160 are desiring, who don't speak the same as you. All 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:48.240 of this stuff shows up. A meta analysis looked at 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.439 studies from twenty ten to twenty twenty three, and they 0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.920 found that higher body weight was associated with lower hiring 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:57.640 rates and lower pay, even when the qualifications were identical. 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.560 And this was serving white women with a sess weight, 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:05.400 so not considering other factors that they might be discriminated against. 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:10.640 Like their race, or their abilities, their physical abilities. 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:14.439 Yes, but the interesting thing is that for men, there 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.880 was no effect on excess weight overall over time. You know, 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.000 doesn't mean it doesn't happen, but the trend was that 0:13:20.040 --> 0:13:22.679 there was no effect on excess weight on employment outcomes, 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.880 or the magnitude of the effect is smaller, and in 0:13:25.920 --> 0:13:31.160 some cases it's positive. And Ronald, for you, I'm curious 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:34.200 of if you've ever felt like your body disqualified you 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:36.080 before you got the chance to get in the room 0:13:36.160 --> 0:13:36.640 or speak. 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.520 Yes. I mean. There was a job I had at 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.080 an IT company. It was a management consulting firm, and 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.760 I remember I got the job and I was very excited, 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.240 and I was working there at the support desk, and 0:13:50.320 --> 0:13:53.720 I remember looking around me and seeing all the people 0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.679 that working in the support desk. They were kind of diverse. 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:00.720 Most people had college educations there. I would look at them, 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.000 and I would look at the people who are high 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.360 up in the company. I rarely ever saw an overweight 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.800 person in any of those ranks. I would see then 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.720 sporadically spread out across the company doing other jobs, but 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.760 I rarely saw them being in positions of authority over 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:20.640 everyone else, which I always was like, I wonder what 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.600 that says about me and my abilities to rise up 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.080 the rankings. Another example I'll give is one of my 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:29.160 managers had a beard, and I remember he was talking 0:14:29.200 --> 0:14:31.080 to his mentor, who was one of the higher ups 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.480 at the company, and he relayed this conversation back to me, 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:35.920 who also has a beard, and he said he looked 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.880 at me and says, hey, do you know any managing 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:41.160 directors at this company that have a beard? And he 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:42.880 said no, and he goes, do you think you're going 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:44.880 to be the first? And I remember at that time 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:48.000 being like, wow, okay, so like you are already talking 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:51.680 about image and basically disqualifying someone for what they look like. Well, 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.080 what you're never going to say out loud is do 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.880 you see any managing directors here who are fat? Do 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:58.200 you think you're going to be the first? You would 0:14:58.240 --> 0:15:00.400 never say that out loud, But what you what do 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:03.680 is find ways to marginalize them in other ways. So 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.560 for me one, being like one of the few black 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:10.280 people it felt like on this particular project, also finding 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.080 out later that I was underpaid, and then also being 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:16.560 fatter than everyone else, it often felt like I just 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.800 didn't fit in in that space. So when I left 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.520 there and started going full time audio production, the thing 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:25.240 that echoes in my mind over and over again is 0:15:25.280 --> 0:15:28.000 looking around the room and saying, am I the fattest 0:15:28.040 --> 0:15:30.480 one here? And is that going to prohibit me from 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.120 going where I want to go and whatever this career is? 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.160 Which I wish I could be like, yeah, nah, I 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:37.720 don't let that stop me. And it doesn't, you know, 0:15:37.800 --> 0:15:39.680 get side of my head all that, But really I 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:41.680 think about it all the time, like it's always like, man, 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.360 I hope me being fat doesn't overshadow the other ways 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:48.400 in which I am talented and qualified for whatever this 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.520 is position that I'm in. But that's something that's constantly 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:52.960 running in my head all the time. 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:54.760 That is exhausting. 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:56.120 You know, I'm tired. 0:15:56.760 --> 0:15:57.240 It's like. 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:03.240 All of the marginalized groups a layered on top of 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.480 one another. You feel the weight of that, yeah, constantly. 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.680 And that's a way that I feel like a lot 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.360 of people. You talked about the body positivity movement, which 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:15.280 I want to talk about a little bit more about now, 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:20.760 Like folks are trying to shift the way that our 0:16:20.840 --> 0:16:25.640 culture views size where it's like wherever you are, we're 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:26.560 just glad that you're here. 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:26.960 You know. 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:29.600 That's what I always try and tell folks. I'm like, 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:32.840 whatever you are, I'm happy that you're here with me 0:16:33.040 --> 0:16:36.520 right now in this moment. You're perfect because you're alive, 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.880 and we've kind of like lost the plot a little bit. 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.840 On the body positivity movement, you talked about the GLP 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:45.040 ones and things like that. 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:49.320 Can you just talk about the efforts that people that. 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:55.520 Aren't in the overweight community, or or that don't identify 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:59.280 themselves as overweight, what they can do in their day 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:02.240 to day to help get us back on the right track. 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:06.439 I think part of it is being aware of the 0:17:06.480 --> 0:17:10.040 ways you, as a straight sized person, are able to 0:17:10.160 --> 0:17:14.560 navigate places that a fat person may have trouble navigating. 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:17.560 I think one time I had a friend who asked 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:21.119 me to dinner, and he looked up the restaurant and 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:24.760 then also looked up the chairs and just been like, 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:26.879 look a little bit, the chairs are Now. I'm not 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.560 a super fat person. I'm fat. I'm not a super 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.560 fat or infinitive fat, which is like much much fatter 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.040 than I am. And a lot of those folks have 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:37.600 even bigger struggles when it comes to just sitting down 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.440 in a restaurant to eat. But for me, I'm thinking 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:43.280 about what it takes to sit on a plane. What 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:46.320 are these chairs that you ordered at your wedding, you know, 0:17:46.920 --> 0:17:49.440 like you know those little flipsy real nice in the 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:51.600 picture chairs where you sit on one of those and 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.320 you hear that little crack, Yes, like the clear ones 0:17:54.359 --> 0:17:56.560 and the wooden ones where you hear that crack and 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:58.600 you immediately stand up be like nah, nah na, I'm 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:01.800 not welcome here. I feel like what we could be 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.679 doing is like looking at like why are we not 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.680 making chairs that like fit the largest of us, because 0:18:07.680 --> 0:18:09.600 if they do, then they're also going to fit the 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:11.600 smallest of us, you know what I mean. There's lots 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:15.000 of ways in which we're thinking about design and disability 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:18.040 advocates will say this, like, if we design for disability, 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:22.040 everybody that who is not disabled can still use whatever 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.600 like we're using. Like if you put ramps on everything 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.480 instead of stairs, everyone can use a ramp. There's no 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:29.600 one out there who's it's easier for me to use 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:32.159 the stairs, that is for me to use this ramp, 0:18:32.400 --> 0:18:35.480 And like it's really not like it's an equalizer for 0:18:35.560 --> 0:18:37.680 all of us so I think for straight sized folks, 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:40.320 I think it's a matter of saying, like, what ways 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:43.720 can I make the world a better place for everyone? 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:47.000 If you're thinking with an equity mindset, then it won't 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:50.000 just be about weight, It'll be about everything. And I 0:18:50.040 --> 0:18:53.800 think that's kind of like what like most fat advocates 0:18:53.800 --> 0:18:56.359 and people within fat community are trying to say, which 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:59.560 is like, if you're thinking about the most disabled of us, 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:02.560 then everyone else is going to be fine. There's not 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.359 one person that's going to suffer if we're trying to 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:07.480 look out for the most disabled among us. 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.880 I think this is something It feels like a conversation 0:19:12.080 --> 0:19:14.440 that even in my friendship with T T that I 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:19.040 am sometimes talking to t T about especially I'll say, 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:21.360 when people want you to show up, it's like they 0:19:21.400 --> 0:19:24.720 haven't considered any of these things. Or when you have 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:26.480 to be on video, or when you have to sit 0:19:26.520 --> 0:19:29.359 on the stage, nobody, I'm like, first of all, doesn't 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.280 everybody need some back support? I don't know who designed 0:19:32.280 --> 0:19:34.560 those little chairs with the two inch little lip on 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:34.880 the back. 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:36.560 I'm like, I'm busy. 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.120 I can't even focus on what I'm saying. I'm squinching 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:40.679 my butt cheeks, Yes, trying to stay up right, you know, 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:46.199 So there's that. I think there is so much hidden 0:19:46.280 --> 0:19:49.840 load that you have to kind of experience to know. 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:52.960 And I'm also curious, you know. T T touched on this. 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:55.480 She talked about body positivity. I want to t T, 0:19:55.600 --> 0:19:57.600 did you have anything else you wanted to do before 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:58.200 I move us. 0:19:58.359 --> 0:19:59.960 I feel like if I start talking, I'm going to 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.120 start crying because the kid is always like, you're making 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.800 shit weird. But with what she just said, I feel 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:09.640 awful because there's a lot of stuff that I don't 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:11.720 think about. Like I'm always just like, yeah, my friend 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:15.320 she's here, look at her. She's so beautiful, she's so smart, 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:19.440 and I'm not considering those things. And like you said, 0:20:19.480 --> 0:20:24.000 we have to start thinking more inclusive. And I mean 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.159 it starts with your bestie, like it starts with the 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:30.800 people closest to you, because we just move and you 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:32.920 think you're moving with love, but you have this huge 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:36.399 blind spot that you really have to pay attention to 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:39.040 because there's real hurt in those instances. 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:42.480 I went to dinner with a friend recently, and she 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.440 doesn't move around so well because she has like and 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.960