WEBVTT - The Karol Markowicz Show: Redemption with Liel Leibovitz 0:00:06.559 --> 0:00:10.119 Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:14.840 The Economist magazine had a review of three books recently, 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:18.759 all on the subject of talking to strangers. The three 0:00:18.760 --> 0:00:22.720 books are Hello Stranger by Will Buckingham, The Power of 0:00:22.720 --> 0:00:27.600 Strangers by Joe Kean, and Fractured by John Gates. This 0:00:27.640 --> 0:00:31.120 is a topic I'm obviously interested in, how we meet people, 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:35.360 how we make friends. The Economist's review. It's unsigned, so 0:00:35.440 --> 0:00:38.640 I don't know who wrote it. Notes quote. All three 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.840 authors make sweeping generalizations about the evolution of human society, 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.680 from hunter gatherers to the age of Homer and beyond. 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:50.320 They are more interesting when they reflect using personal experience 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:53.880 or scientific research on how people live and communicate now 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:58.280 in different ways. They all make two separate but related points. First, 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:02.360 interacting meaningfully with new person can bring huge rewords, but 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:04.640 it is a skill that must be cultivated and can 0:01:04.680 --> 0:01:09.120 easily be lost. Second, the self segregation of modern Western 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:13.040 societies means that for many people, conversing with some fellow 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:18.800 citizens seems pointless, undesirable, or outlandish. The second problem exacerbates 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.680 the first. If you consider others beyond the pale, why 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:23.920 make the effort to get to know them, as mister 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:28.440 Kohane and mister Yates emphasize. In Britain and America, political 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:33.000 divisions have ossified into tribal ones. Supporters and opponents of 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:36.960 Brexit live in discreete clusters. Republicans and Democrats see each 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:40.680 other as bad people, not fellow Americans whose opinions happen 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:44.360 to differ. These opposing sides have become strangers to one another. 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:48.240 Mister Buckingham focuses on the pleasures and pitfalls of encounters 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.000 in remote places, where the stakes are lower because the 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:54.320 acquaintance ships are bound to be temporary in a holiday 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.480 flat share in Helsinki or while traveling through the Balkans. 0:01:57.960 --> 0:01:59.920 But like the other two, he notes that the where 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.880 fariness of unfamiliar people is neither new nor insuper bowl 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.200 end quote. I have a lot of friends who I 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:10.800 disagree with politically, and they are good, rich friendships. But 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:14.680 I don't think there's anything crazy at all about seeking 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:17.880 out or living among people with whom you agree on 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:21.120 kind of the big issues of life. I lived in 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:25.640 a neighborhood in Brooklyn where I disagreed pretty much with 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.440 all of my neighbors and pretty strongly too. They were 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:32.480 very far left. I'm obviously a conservative now. My husband 0:02:32.520 --> 0:02:35.639 and I we made amazing friends there with varying degrees 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:38.760 of political differences. Some people just aren't that into politics, 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:41.400 and some people are very into politics, and we don't agree, 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:45.800 and it's absolutely possible to still have close friendships. But 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.480 I should note that most of the people who we 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.680 became close with in that neighborhood, who maybe we politically 0:02:51.760 --> 0:02:55.840 disagreed with, were Jewish like us. So even if we 0:02:55.880 --> 0:03:00.600 didn't have politics in common, we had something else, something big. 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.720 That's what gets lost in the conversations about people lining 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:08.799 up with their political tribes. There's nothing weird about looking 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:12.800 for commonality. There's an Irish bar in so many random 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:16.400 places I visited, from Lisbon to Buenos Aires. Is it 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.040 weird that Irish people would seek each other out when 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:22.480 they're far from home. I don't think it is. Of course, 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:26.239 take chances and talk to strangers and make friends with 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.640 people who are different from you. It's possible. But also 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:32.640 don't be surprised if the people you're most drawn to 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:35.680 are actually quite similar to you. That's the way the 0:03:35.680 --> 0:03:39.080 world has always worked, and there's really nothing weird about that. 0:03:39.360 --> 0:03:46.080 Coming up next, an interview with Leelle Leibowitz. Hi, and 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.680 welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.880 guest today is Leelle Leovitz. Leelle is editor at Large 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:57.600 at Tablet Magazine and co host of Unorthodox, the world's 0:03:57.640 --> 0:04:01.640 most popular Jewish podcast. Leelle is also you know, no 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.600 pressure here, Leel, but my favorite writer, Hi, Leel. So 0:04:05.720 --> 0:04:07.200 nice to have you on, Carol. 0:04:07.360 --> 0:04:09.280 I cannot tell you what a pleasure this is. 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:13.200 So I ask people how they would want to be introduced, 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.480 and you included a word that not only I didn't 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.279 know but also couldn't pronounce. And I kind of practiced, 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:20.760 and I was like, forget it, I'm not doing it. 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.520 But a tinerant drinker. 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:28.240 Iterant tinerant drunk. Okay, yes, I got very committed to 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:29.560 being drunk just on occasion. 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:32.640 Oh okay, because I thought it was somebody who travels 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:37.440 to get drunk based on definition. Also, yes, I couldn't 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:39.920 even claim immigrant, you know here whenever I don't know 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:41.440 a word, I'm like, well, I'm an immigrant, you know, 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:42.839 even though I came when I was like one and 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:46.159 a half. But because you're an immigrant too, and you 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:47.600 know you knew what it meant. 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.680 Very much an immigrant, and yes, also someone who travels 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.880 from location to location based mainly in the availability of gin. 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:58.200 Well, we have a lot of gin for you in 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.279 South Florida, should you feel like making the track, you know, 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:05.200 visiting or you know, moving whatever whatever works for you, Really. 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:08.000 Carol, why would I when I could open my door 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:11.080 here in New York City, smell the great smell of 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:15.560 you know, illegal weed stores everywhere, enjoy interaction with my 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.400 you know, fellow mentally unhinged citizens, be shoved on the 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:23.159 subway as part of my daily routine workout. There's so 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:27.440 much fun here. It really does functioning American City like fun. 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:29.320 And I don't know why you would leave it. So, 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.920 you know, whenever you're ready to leave that wonderland, you 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:33.920 just let me know. 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:38.840 You're touching a very sore spot. But yes, you are 0:05:38.960 --> 0:05:43.040 the best ambassador for the Sunshine State. Then eventually you'll convert. 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:45.080 Us to you know, I used to be the best 0:05:45.080 --> 0:05:47.680 ambassador for New York City. I used to be such 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.440 a fan and we tell people about how amazing it was, 0:05:51.480 --> 0:05:53.640 and then you know, I couldn't do that anymore. So 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:56.359 it was time to go. But okay, I'm not going 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.160 to keep poking at it. Tell us about yourself. How 0:05:59.160 --> 0:05:59.920 did you become a writer? 0:06:00.600 --> 0:06:04.640 How did I become a writer? Simply? I didn't know 0:06:04.680 --> 0:06:07.640 how to do anything else. I'm being sincere. I still 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:09.760 don't know how to do anything else. If I did, 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:13.960 there's so many professions I would much rather choose. But 0:06:14.160 --> 0:06:17.080 from a very young age, it was very apparent that 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:22.240 my very limited skill set was basically reading things and 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:26.760 writing things and talking about things. It occupied, you know, 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:31.159 every three hour and every cell of my imagination. It 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.960 was really never a question. I mean, I honestly remember 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.599 myself at six or seven sort of sitting on the 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:38.600 couch and me like, well, you know, when I published 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.679 my first book, which is, of course what every adult 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.720 wants to hear, which parents, of course are like, well 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:50.400 when I'm unemployed. But it was completely obvious it's all 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:52.200 I ever wanted to and it's still all I want 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.000 to do. I mean, I don't, I'm just I mean, 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:56.600 look at the grain in my beard right now, I've 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:58.920 aged into it. It was more of a problem my twenties. 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:00.839 Billion I was never one of these people like, oh 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:02.920 my god, dude, let's go to a poor and get 0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.680 high and get drunk, and I go to parties or 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:09.240 like people. Now it's like, let's binge like nine Seasons 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.240 of the Pink Lotus or whatever people are watching, Like, 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.680 I'm gonna sit here, drink something and read. 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:17.280 How many books have you written? 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.400 I'm gonna go with eleven? Wow, dude, I don't know 0:07:23.400 --> 0:07:24.960 why I say this. Maybe nine? 0:07:25.080 --> 0:07:27.040 But are you guessing? 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:31.080 I am guessing. I can't. Here's the thing, I think 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:38.120 one great thing slash terrible things. My mind is it's 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:40.800 very small. It's like a groundhog Day situation. As soon 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.800 as I finish a problem, I'm so consumed by the 0:07:43.840 --> 0:07:46.200 project that I'm working on right now. Then as soon 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:50.280 as I finish it, I have zero recollection of what 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.560 I just did two days ago. So if you asked 0:07:53.560 --> 0:07:55.680 me about a book I literally finished writing, you know, 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.880 four weeks ago, I'd be like, I don't know. Maybe 0:07:59.360 --> 0:08:02.440 I don't so I don't remember how many I can. 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:04.360 I just I have to leave them as soon as 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:05.679 Sometimes it's. 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:09.400 Funny because people compare writing books to having children, but 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:11.960 clearly I think you know how many kids you have? 0:08:12.320 --> 0:08:17.000 And I'm going to go with two you sure. Yeah, 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:18.119 I'm sure. I'm pretty sure. 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:20.680 Do you feel like you've made it? 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:22.880 Do I feel like I've made it? 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:26.200 I mean, you have like a million books, it's like, 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:30.000 and two children and you know, a beautiful wife, and 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:31.640 you don't seem like you've got it going on. And 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.520 you're my favorite writer, literally, my favorite writer, which has 0:08:34.559 --> 0:08:38.120 to count for something in your modification of if you've 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:38.840 made it. 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:42.600 It counts for so much because I admire you so 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:45.520 much and you're doing such incredible, incredible work, and so 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.480 this is like the greatest compliment you could pay. I'm 0:08:49.480 --> 0:08:53.560 going to go ahead and say yes. And here's why. 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:59.400 You know, a lot of us who enter this world arts, politics, 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:04.640 these are these are high octane, high emotion pursuits. 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:04.839 Right. 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.079 We go into them because we have big feelings and 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.600 because we want to achieve big things. And with this 0:09:11.720 --> 0:09:16.160 comes bucket loads of absolute sheer. Can we curse on 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:20.280 the show? Yeah, curse away, absolute sheer fucking misery because 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:22.680 you're like, oh my god, my book failed, Oh my god, 0:09:22.840 --> 0:09:24.960 this party that I don't like in power, this person 0:09:25.000 --> 0:09:27.600 that I hate just want to election. This very big 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:32.319 feelings drive you looney, which is honestly why so much 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:34.360 was all jokes about drinking aside, this is why so 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:36.240 many of us drink, right, this is this is what 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.480 we do. What I feel I've achieved in the last 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:45.120 eight or so years is a notion of really really 0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:48.600 kind of embodying or at least really grocking to use 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:53.320 a nerdy term, to really kind of internalizing this. This 0:09:53.480 --> 0:09:59.560 Talmudic teaching that I love. The Tama teaches us who's 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.920 the rich person. It's the person who could be happy 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:07.520 with what he has. That was not me ten years 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:09.960 ago at all. I was one of these people who 0:10:09.960 --> 0:10:12.080 woke up every morning He's like, why don't I have 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:14.640 this show? Why is my party not in power? Why 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.360 can't I do? Like it was constantly like this great 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:21.440 line in Hamilton, like You're never satisfied, You'll never be satisfied. Yeah, 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:25.200 I'm satisfied. I don't. I don't need to be the 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.839 most the biggest. I open my eyes every morning, I 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:32.320 start the day with, you know, prayers to God, giving 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:35.439 thanks for everything that He's given us. And it sounds corny, 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.400 but it changes the entire out kind of day, Like 0:10:38.679 --> 0:10:42.240 there's no there's no inbox that could contain bad news. 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:45.800 After you came by saying hey, look man, thanks for everything. 0:10:45.800 --> 0:10:48.040 And then you see your kids and you see you know, 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:50.319 your ability to have a little bit of a voice 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.920 in this world and to talk and spend your days, 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:55.720 you know, talking to people you you you like a 0:10:55.720 --> 0:11:01.040 lot and admire and thinking about ideas. I'm I am satisfied. 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:04.160 And to me, that's that's howthing made it. 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.920 Yeah, I agree. I think that that's really what it's 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.240 all about. I also had parents who did not want 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.000 me to be a writer. And I remember my parents, 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:14.600 I want to be a writer, and they were like, no, 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:16.760 that's not a thing, like nobody makes it as a writer. 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.240 You will not be able to feed yourself. Doctor, you're 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.040 going to be a doctor. So if you had to 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:24.480 have a plan B, if you couldn't be a writer, 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:28.600 what would it be, I'll tell you when you can't 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:30.560 be a podcaster. You know nothing in. 0:11:30.600 --> 0:11:34.600 Thee of these things. So I actually I was a 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:38.560 pretty good army person. I didn't go very far with it. 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:40.960 I left it. You know, I served for three years 0:11:41.200 --> 0:11:44.440 in Israel Defense Forces. But it made perfect tense to me. 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:49.240 There's kind of beautiful order to it and a big 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:51.760 sense of mission. And a big sense of kind of like, okay, well, 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.680 you know you're one small part of a big team 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.840 I'm going to go with. I would probably have been 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:02.800 in the mill service. The only other thing that I 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:06.600 ever really loved doing enough and was somewhat good at 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:11.280 is boxing, which is again another very dumb skill that 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.719 I have because I'm six foot five and two and 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.880 fifty pounds and you know, at some point you gotta 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:20.160 go and what God gave you. So I could probably 0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:24.640 have done this, but honestly, like something like a barman 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:26.720 again to bring it back to being. 0:12:26.520 --> 0:12:29.280 A drunk tinnerant drinking, any. 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.000 Profession that allows you to spend some time and you know, 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:34.800 talk to people, help people out, not in a kind 0:12:34.840 --> 0:12:38.640 of prescriptive, hierarchical like power trip kind of way, but 0:12:38.760 --> 0:12:42.240 just like, hey man, yeah how can I help you? Gin? 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:43.600 You can help like Jinn. 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.760 And then finally in my kind of list that what 0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:52.040 I should have could have look the real family business. 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.120 I come from a long line of rabbis. I think 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:56.640 that would have served me. 0:12:57.040 --> 0:13:00.439 Justifying Yeah, I could see you being like a rabbi boxer. 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.280 That would be your Twitter handle, right like. 0:13:05.760 --> 0:13:08.040 Slash astronaut slash billionaire. 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:12.600 I believe in you actually, So what would you say 0:13:12.960 --> 0:13:15.360 is like the theme of your writing, like what do 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:19.120 you enjoy? What you know, concepts you enjoy? Hitting the 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:19.760 most easy. 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.360 I only say I think there's only one. Uh, it's redemption, 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:30.320 It's it's it's creating to court my my rebe Leonard Cohen, 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:32.880 who I wrote a book about and had the pleasure 0:13:32.880 --> 0:13:35.440 and the privilege of getting to know later in life 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:40.520 his life. Also later in my life writing a manual 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:44.040 for living with defeat, you know, understanding again coding one 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:48.840 of his most famous songs that there's a crack in everything, 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.200 but that's how life gets in. Uh. You know that 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:56.200 is such a hard kind of bit of wisdom for 0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:59.400 us to grasp as we kind of reach for redemption 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:03.040 that looks like like perfection, that sounds like bell's ringing. 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:05.760 That is this moment like oh my God, and all 0:14:05.800 --> 0:14:08.280 I have to do is X and then life will 0:14:08.280 --> 0:14:09.840 be great. I think so many of us are so 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:13.360 unhappy because we've been sold this vision of what again, 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:16.280 to go back to our last question of conversation topic 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:19.080 of conversation, we've been sold this vision of like what 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.120 making it is that is constant waiting right, there's a 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:25.560 doctor Seuss line like the waiting place, like you wait 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:27.840 and wait and wait and wait, Like, Okay, so I 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:29.720 graduate from high school and then I'll go to college, 0:14:29.840 --> 0:14:31.480 and then I'll get the internship, and then I'll get 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:34.000 the job, and then i'll get the go to graduate school, 0:14:34.080 --> 0:14:35.800 and then I'll get the better job, and then and 0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:37.840 then finally I'll be happy. There's a point in which 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:41.480 the door's open, the angels sing, You're like, as Marco Witz, 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:45.200 welcome to the time you are here. And then you're 0:14:45.200 --> 0:14:48.080 like that that was it. No, that's not how any 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:51.160 of it works. It's it's it's the small heartbreaks, and 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:53.800 it's learning to live with him. It's it's it's failing 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:58.040 and then learning to fail better and failing upwards as 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:00.360 as you go with it. That's honestly the theme of 0:15:00.440 --> 0:15:02.840 I think everything I'm writing about it, and I think 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:05.040 that's the thing that we need right now, because we 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:09.720 are so fucking broken, all of us, our society. I 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.120 mean to quote Alana new House, my dear friend and 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:15.480 boss of Capital Magazine, who wrote this glorious piece called 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.560 Everything is Broken. Everything is Broken in America, slash the 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:23.360 world slash the cosmos right now, knowing how to live 0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:26.160 with it and find meaning in it and repair it. 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:30.400 Not in this kind of dumb, you know, revolutionary Hey, 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:33.440 let me let me wave a Kama's flag and you know, 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:37.000 block access to a cancer hospital because that's what I believe. 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.880 But but in a real kind of generative, emotional, human, helpful, 0:15:40.920 --> 0:15:45.000 beautiful way. Boy, that's a tough skill to master. 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:48.840 What would you say is our largest societal problem. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:56.960 It's it is eminently solvable, and it's it's a great 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:00.200 public health crisis that we don't talk about enough. It's 0:16:00.400 --> 0:16:03.920 prestige addiction. It's this notion that so many of us 0:16:03.920 --> 0:16:06.440 have was like, oh my god, I would have made 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:10.280 it once I have the degree from Columbia University or 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.400 Harvard or Pane. Yeah, I would have made it once 0:16:12.400 --> 0:16:15.120 I'm published by the New York Times. Oh I would 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.520 have made it once I'm a partner at this prestigious 0:16:17.560 --> 0:16:22.600 law firm. We set so much store by these you know, validations. 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.080 But one of my favorite things about being in Los Angeles, 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.080 everyone drives everywhere and everything is valet and they ask 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.040 every ye do need validation, which, of course they made 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.240 for the parking but I take it cosmically like, yes, 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:36.680 we all need validation, except we seek it in the 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:40.360 absolute wrong places. We seek it in you know, these institutions, 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:43.440 and not just these institutions, but institutions that have already 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.320 collapsed and crumbled into kind of like you know, fetid 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:52.680 swamps of mutually accrediting mediocrites pursuing their power for evil. 0:16:53.520 --> 0:16:56.200 I think we could stop. I think we should absolutely 0:16:56.200 --> 0:16:59.800 stop and kind of get back to first principles. And 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:02.359 here here's the thing. This is the source of great optimism. 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:05.359 It's happening everywhere. You could see it in a what 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:09.920 twenty thirty percent drop of advanced application admissions application to Harvard. 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:11.840 You could see it in like more and more people 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.359 just opting out of these corrupted structures. And you write 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.520 about this so well, and so beautifully and so frequently. 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:23.200 It's happening everywhere. It's a great coalition of normal Americans. 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:27.840 It defies left and right, religious and secular. We're curing 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:31.640 ourselves of this prestige addiction, one person at one American 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:32.080 at the time. 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.240 How do we move that process along? How do we 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:37.840 help that you know, ending. 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:45.240 Two words courage and joy, both lacking tremendously. The first 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.560 is rather obvious, right, just to have the courage to say, like, 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:51.600 I'm sorry, this is here's something that I say to 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.440 my children, who are twelve and ten three times a week. 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.240 I'm not exaggerating, like maybe four times a week. Look, 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:01.560 I have a PhD from Columbia University. I taught at 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.639 Columbia for some years. I taught at NYU for almost 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.879 a decade. I'm a recovered academic. So maybe easy for 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:09.440 me to say, but I say to my twelve and 0:18:09.520 --> 0:18:12.359 ten year old three times a week, you are never 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:16.120 going to college. You're never going to college because I'm 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:18.520 not paying, you know, two hundred and fifty thousand dollars 0:18:18.920 --> 0:18:22.320 and spending four years of your life for someone to 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.840 basically train you to be a Nazi. Like that's not 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:29.040 happening in our household. That's the courage part, the bigger part, 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:33.080 and some people have that, although not enough, but they're optimistic. 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.720 The bigger part, and the more troublesome part, is the 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:38.880 joy part. Right, it's not enough just to say, well, 0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:45.080 we hate universities, the campus woke ideology, like eighty five 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.040 percent of what I hear, and like, you know, the 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:49.720 media that I consume is all this. The joy part 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.280 is say, like, guys, actually, we have amazing ideas and 0:18:53.359 --> 0:18:56.680 we have better you know, attitudes and views in life, 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.600 and we love them and we're very proud of them. 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.920 We're out of our faith traditions. We're proud of our communities. 0:19:03.040 --> 0:19:06.400 We're proud of our solutions to these problems that are 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.800 much more ancient and sustainable than anything you know, college 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:13.520 professors have designed two and a half minutes ago, historically speaking, right, 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:17.000 I think this building and building with with grit and 0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:20.879 happiness is what makes this country great. I believe in 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.399 it wholeheartedly. I think the next couple of years are 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:26.000 going to be very tough, but in the long run, Look, 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.960 this is a covenantal nation. We renew the covenant every 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.159 couple of years, and it doesn't look the same for 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.919 any generation that renews the covenant. It didn't look the 0:19:34.960 --> 0:19:37.320 same for the people in eighteen sixty one as it 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.480 did for the people in seventeen seventy six, and it 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:41.320 didn't look the same in nineteen sixty four as it 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.400 did in eighteen sixty one. It's our turnout and it's 0:19:44.400 --> 0:19:45.400 going to be amazing. 0:19:46.680 --> 0:19:48.760 So what does that look like practically, because you know 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:50.399 you have a twelve and a ten year old, you're 0:19:50.400 --> 0:19:52.879 saying they're never going to college. You're you're you're going 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.119 to hit up again. So what happens when they graduate 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.760 high school? They just they go to work? Is it? 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:00.840 I mean, I'm in I'm into like send my kids 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:02.919 to college. I'm just afraid that they're going to want 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.760 to go to college. 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:08.399 First of all, they could go to college. What I say, 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:12.200 to be very precise is I'm never paying for your 0:20:12.200 --> 0:20:15.879 college once you're eighteen. If you wish to take and 0:20:15.960 --> 0:20:18.480 make mistakes, I mean, legally I can't stop you. But 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:22.800 I do have a four I have a four pronged plan, 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:25.760 and it sounds very Soviet apologies, but I have been 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.679 thinking about this a lot. My four prong plan is simple. 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:32.320 I want to take the four years they would have 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:36.000 spent on college and to say, two hundred and thousand 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:40.480 dollars or so, all all things you know, considered, and 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:44.919 spend them the following way. I want about a quarter 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:49.200 of that time and money spent on them actually reading 0:20:49.200 --> 0:20:54.040 books and learning, something which as we all know, necessarily 0:20:54.200 --> 0:20:57.320 happen in college. It is not too difficult to put 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:02.320 together a very good kind of yees, set of readings 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:06.600 and kind of essential core competencies that replaces and surpasses 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:08.560 everything you would have learned at the Liberal It's four 0:21:08.640 --> 0:21:11.040 years called. I want a quarter of the time and 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:17.000 money spent on traveling, because I think it is eminently 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:22.439 important for these kids to actually see the world and 0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:25.119 know what it's like, which again does not happen in 0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:29.440 the mirthless, airless type quarters of college. I want a 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.520 quarter of this time spent picking up a skill, like 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.960 a real life skill, and it could be anything from 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:37.959 very high end skills like oh my god, now you 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.000 can program Python, and you could get a high beating 0:21:40.080 --> 0:21:42.840 job to learn how to be a plumber, which is 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:45.399 something that humanity will always need as long as we 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:48.200 have indoor plumbing, which hopefully is a long while. 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:50.240 Yeah, well see right. 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:53.119 And then the fourth and then the fourth part of it, 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.520 which I think is probably the most important, I want 0:21:56.520 --> 0:21:58.720 them to volunteer. I want them to give back to 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.120 their community, which is something that you do not emphasize 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:03.159