1 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: The Economist magazine had a review of three books recently, 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,759 Speaker 1: all on the subject of talking to strangers. The three 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: books are Hello Stranger by Will Buckingham, The Power of 5 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: Strangers by Joe Kean, and Fractured by John Gates. This 6 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: is a topic I'm obviously interested in, how we meet people, 7 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: how we make friends. The Economist's review. It's unsigned, so 8 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 1: I don't know who wrote it. Notes quote. All three 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: authors make sweeping generalizations about the evolution of human society, 10 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: from hunter gatherers to the age of Homer and beyond. 11 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:50,320 Speaker 1: They are more interesting when they reflect using personal experience 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: or scientific research on how people live and communicate now 13 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: in different ways. They all make two separate but related points. First, 14 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: interacting meaningfully with new person can bring huge rewords, but 15 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: it is a skill that must be cultivated and can 16 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: easily be lost. Second, the self segregation of modern Western 17 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: societies means that for many people, conversing with some fellow 18 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: citizens seems pointless, undesirable, or outlandish. The second problem exacerbates 19 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: the first. If you consider others beyond the pale, why 20 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: make the effort to get to know them, as mister 21 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 1: Kohane and mister Yates emphasize. In Britain and America, political 22 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 1: divisions have ossified into tribal ones. Supporters and opponents of 23 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: Brexit live in discreete clusters. Republicans and Democrats see each 24 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: other as bad people, not fellow Americans whose opinions happen 25 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: to differ. These opposing sides have become strangers to one another. 26 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 1: Mister Buckingham focuses on the pleasures and pitfalls of encounters 27 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: in remote places, where the stakes are lower because the 28 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,320 Speaker 1: acquaintance ships are bound to be temporary in a holiday 29 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: flat share in Helsinki or while traveling through the Balkans. 30 00:01:57,960 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 1: But like the other two, he notes that the where 31 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: fariness of unfamiliar people is neither new nor insuper bowl 32 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: end quote. I have a lot of friends who I 33 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: disagree with politically, and they are good, rich friendships. But 34 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: I don't think there's anything crazy at all about seeking 35 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: out or living among people with whom you agree on 36 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: kind of the big issues of life. I lived in 37 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: a neighborhood in Brooklyn where I disagreed pretty much with 38 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: all of my neighbors and pretty strongly too. They were 39 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 1: very far left. I'm obviously a conservative now. My husband 40 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,639 Speaker 1: and I we made amazing friends there with varying degrees 41 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: of political differences. Some people just aren't that into politics, 42 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,400 Speaker 1: and some people are very into politics, and we don't agree, 43 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: and it's absolutely possible to still have close friendships. But 44 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 1: I should note that most of the people who we 45 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: became close with in that neighborhood, who maybe we politically 46 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 1: disagreed with, were Jewish like us. So even if we 47 00:02:55,880 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: didn't have politics in common, we had something else, something big. 48 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: That's what gets lost in the conversations about people lining 49 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 1: up with their political tribes. There's nothing weird about looking 50 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: for commonality. There's an Irish bar in so many random 51 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: places I visited, from Lisbon to Buenos Aires. Is it 52 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: weird that Irish people would seek each other out when 53 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: they're far from home. I don't think it is. Of course, 54 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 1: take chances and talk to strangers and make friends with 55 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 1: people who are different from you. It's possible. But also 56 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,640 Speaker 1: don't be surprised if the people you're most drawn to 57 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: are actually quite similar to you. That's the way the 58 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: world has always worked, and there's really nothing weird about that. 59 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: Coming up next, an interview with Leelle Leibowitz. Hi, and 60 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 1: welcome back to the Carol Markowitz Show on iHeartRadio. My 61 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: guest today is Leelle Leovitz. Leelle is editor at Large 62 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: at Tablet Magazine and co host of Unorthodox, the world's 63 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 1: most popular Jewish podcast. Leelle is also you know, no 64 00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: pressure here, Leel, but my favorite writer, Hi, Leel. So 65 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: nice to have you on, Carol. 66 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:09,280 Speaker 2: I cannot tell you what a pleasure this is. 67 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: So I ask people how they would want to be introduced, 68 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: and you included a word that not only I didn't 69 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: know but also couldn't pronounce. And I kind of practiced, 70 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: and I was like, forget it, I'm not doing it. 71 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: But a tinerant drinker. 72 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 2: Iterant tinerant drunk. Okay, yes, I got very committed to 73 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 2: being drunk just on occasion. 74 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: Oh okay, because I thought it was somebody who travels 75 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: to get drunk based on definition. Also, yes, I couldn't 76 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 1: even claim immigrant, you know here whenever I don't know 77 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: a word, I'm like, well, I'm an immigrant, you know, 78 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:42,839 Speaker 1: even though I came when I was like one and 79 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: a half. But because you're an immigrant too, and you 80 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: know you knew what it meant. 81 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 2: Very much an immigrant, and yes, also someone who travels 82 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: from location to location based mainly in the availability of gin. 83 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: Well, we have a lot of gin for you in 84 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: South Florida, should you feel like making the track, you know, 85 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 1: visiting or you know, moving whatever whatever works for you, Really. 86 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 2: Carol, why would I when I could open my door 87 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 2: here in New York City, smell the great smell of 88 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:15,560 Speaker 2: you know, illegal weed stores everywhere, enjoy interaction with my 89 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: you know, fellow mentally unhinged citizens, be shoved on the 90 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 2: subway as part of my daily routine workout. There's so 91 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 2: much fun here. It really does functioning American City like fun. 92 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: And I don't know why you would leave it. So, 93 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: you know, whenever you're ready to leave that wonderland, you 94 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: just let me know. 95 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 2: You're touching a very sore spot. But yes, you are 96 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:43,040 Speaker 2: the best ambassador for the Sunshine State. Then eventually you'll convert. 97 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: Us to you know, I used to be the best 98 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: ambassador for New York City. I used to be such 99 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: a fan and we tell people about how amazing it was, 100 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: and then you know, I couldn't do that anymore. So 101 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: it was time to go. But okay, I'm not going 102 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: to keep poking at it. Tell us about yourself. How 103 00:05:59,160 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: did you become a writer? 104 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 2: How did I become a writer? Simply? I didn't know 105 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 2: how to do anything else. I'm being sincere. I still 106 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 2: don't know how to do anything else. If I did, 107 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: there's so many professions I would much rather choose. But 108 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 2: from a very young age, it was very apparent that 109 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: my very limited skill set was basically reading things and 110 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 2: writing things and talking about things. It occupied, you know, 111 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 2: every three hour and every cell of my imagination. It 112 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: was really never a question. I mean, I honestly remember 113 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 2: myself at six or seven sort of sitting on the 114 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 2: couch and me like, well, you know, when I published 115 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,679 Speaker 2: my first book, which is, of course what every adult 116 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 2: wants to hear, which parents, of course are like, well 117 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 2: when I'm unemployed. But it was completely obvious it's all 118 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: I ever wanted to and it's still all I want 119 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: to do. I mean, I don't, I'm just I mean, 120 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 2: look at the grain in my beard right now, I've 121 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 2: aged into it. It was more of a problem my twenties. 122 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:00,839 Speaker 2: Billion I was never one of these people like, oh 123 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 2: my god, dude, let's go to a poor and get 124 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 2: high and get drunk, and I go to parties or 125 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 2: like people. Now it's like, let's binge like nine Seasons 126 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 2: of the Pink Lotus or whatever people are watching, Like, 127 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: I'm gonna sit here, drink something and read. 128 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: How many books have you written? 129 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 2: I'm gonna go with eleven? Wow, dude, I don't know 130 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 2: why I say this. Maybe nine? 131 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: But are you guessing? 132 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: I am guessing. I can't. Here's the thing, I think 133 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 2: one great thing slash terrible things. My mind is it's 134 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 2: very small. It's like a groundhog Day situation. As soon 135 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: as I finish a problem, I'm so consumed by the 136 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: project that I'm working on right now. Then as soon 137 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: as I finish it, I have zero recollection of what 138 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 2: I just did two days ago. So if you asked 139 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 2: me about a book I literally finished writing, you know, 140 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 2: four weeks ago, I'd be like, I don't know. Maybe 141 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 2: I don't so I don't remember how many I can. 142 00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 2: I just I have to leave them as soon as 143 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:05,679 Speaker 2: Sometimes it's. 144 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: Funny because people compare writing books to having children, but 145 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: clearly I think you know how many kids you have? 146 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:17,000 Speaker 2: And I'm going to go with two you sure. Yeah, 147 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:18,119 Speaker 2: I'm sure. I'm pretty sure. 148 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: Do you feel like you've made it? 149 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 2: Do I feel like I've made it? 150 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: I mean, you have like a million books, it's like, 151 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: and two children and you know, a beautiful wife, and 152 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: you don't seem like you've got it going on. And 153 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: you're my favorite writer, literally, my favorite writer, which has 154 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: to count for something in your modification of if you've 155 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: made it. 156 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 2: It counts for so much because I admire you so 157 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 2: much and you're doing such incredible, incredible work, and so 158 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,480 Speaker 2: this is like the greatest compliment you could pay. I'm 159 00:08:49,480 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 2: going to go ahead and say yes. And here's why. 160 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: You know, a lot of us who enter this world arts, politics, 161 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 2: these are these are high octane, high emotion pursuits. 162 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 1: Right. 163 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 2: We go into them because we have big feelings and 164 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 2: because we want to achieve big things. And with this 165 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 2: comes bucket loads of absolute sheer. Can we curse on 166 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 2: the show? Yeah, curse away, absolute sheer fucking misery because 167 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 2: you're like, oh my god, my book failed, Oh my god, 168 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,960 Speaker 2: this party that I don't like in power, this person 169 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 2: that I hate just want to election. This very big 170 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:32,319 Speaker 2: feelings drive you looney, which is honestly why so much 171 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 2: was all jokes about drinking aside, this is why so 172 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: many of us drink, right, this is this is what 173 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 2: we do. What I feel I've achieved in the last 174 00:09:39,880 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 2: eight or so years is a notion of really really 175 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 2: kind of embodying or at least really grocking to use 176 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 2: a nerdy term, to really kind of internalizing this. This 177 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: Talmudic teaching that I love. The Tama teaches us who's 178 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: the rich person. It's the person who could be happy 179 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 2: with what he has. That was not me ten years 180 00:10:07,520 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: ago at all. I was one of these people who 181 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 2: woke up every morning He's like, why don't I have 182 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 2: this show? Why is my party not in power? Why 183 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 2: can't I do? Like it was constantly like this great 184 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 2: line in Hamilton, like You're never satisfied, You'll never be satisfied. Yeah, 185 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:25,200 Speaker 2: I'm satisfied. I don't. I don't need to be the 186 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 2: most the biggest. I open my eyes every morning, I 187 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 2: start the day with, you know, prayers to God, giving 188 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,439 Speaker 2: thanks for everything that He's given us. And it sounds corny, 189 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 2: but it changes the entire out kind of day, Like 190 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 2: there's no there's no inbox that could contain bad news. 191 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 2: After you came by saying hey, look man, thanks for everything. 192 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,040 Speaker 2: And then you see your kids and you see you know, 193 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 2: your ability to have a little bit of a voice 194 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 2: in this world and to talk and spend your days, 195 00:10:53,280 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: you know, talking to people you you you like a 196 00:10:55,720 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: lot and admire and thinking about ideas. I'm I am satisfied. 197 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 2: And to me, that's that's howthing made it. 198 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I think that that's really what it's 199 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: all about. I also had parents who did not want 200 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: me to be a writer. And I remember my parents, 201 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:14,600 Speaker 1: I want to be a writer, and they were like, no, 202 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: that's not a thing, like nobody makes it as a writer. 203 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 1: You will not be able to feed yourself. Doctor, you're 204 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: going to be a doctor. So if you had to 205 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: have a plan B, if you couldn't be a writer, 206 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: what would it be, I'll tell you when you can't 207 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: be a podcaster. You know nothing in. 208 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 2: Thee of these things. So I actually I was a 209 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 2: pretty good army person. I didn't go very far with it. 210 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 2: I left it. You know, I served for three years 211 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 2: in Israel Defense Forces. But it made perfect tense to me. 212 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 2: There's kind of beautiful order to it and a big 213 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 2: sense of mission. And a big sense of kind of like, okay, well, 214 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 2: you know you're one small part of a big team 215 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: I'm going to go with. I would probably have been 216 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 2: in the mill service. The only other thing that I 217 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,600 Speaker 2: ever really loved doing enough and was somewhat good at 218 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 2: is boxing, which is again another very dumb skill that 219 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 2: I have because I'm six foot five and two and 220 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 2: fifty pounds and you know, at some point you gotta 221 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 2: go and what God gave you. So I could probably 222 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 2: have done this, but honestly, like something like a barman 223 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: again to bring it back to being. 224 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: A drunk tinnerant drinking, any. 225 00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 2: Profession that allows you to spend some time and you know, 226 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 2: talk to people, help people out, not in a kind 227 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 2: of prescriptive, hierarchical like power trip kind of way, but 228 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 2: just like, hey man, yeah how can I help you? Gin? 229 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: You can help like Jinn. 230 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 2: And then finally in my kind of list that what 231 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 2: I should have could have look the real family business. 232 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,120 Speaker 2: I come from a long line of rabbis. I think 233 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 2: that would have served me. 234 00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: Justifying Yeah, I could see you being like a rabbi boxer. 235 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: That would be your Twitter handle, right like. 236 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 2: Slash astronaut slash billionaire. 237 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: I believe in you actually, So what would you say 238 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 1: is like the theme of your writing, like what do 239 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: you enjoy? What you know, concepts you enjoy? Hitting the 240 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: most easy. 241 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 2: I only say I think there's only one. Uh, it's redemption, 242 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 2: It's it's it's creating to court my my rebe Leonard Cohen, 243 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:32,880 Speaker 2: who I wrote a book about and had the pleasure 244 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,440 Speaker 2: and the privilege of getting to know later in life 245 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 2: his life. Also later in my life writing a manual 246 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 2: for living with defeat, you know, understanding again coding one 247 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 2: of his most famous songs that there's a crack in everything, 248 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 2: but that's how life gets in. Uh. You know that 249 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 2: is such a hard kind of bit of wisdom for 250 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 2: us to grasp as we kind of reach for redemption 251 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,040 Speaker 2: that looks like like perfection, that sounds like bell's ringing. 252 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 2: That is this moment like oh my God, and all 253 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 2: I have to do is X and then life will 254 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 2: be great. I think so many of us are so 255 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 2: unhappy because we've been sold this vision of what again, 256 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 2: to go back to our last question of conversation topic 257 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: of conversation, we've been sold this vision of like what 258 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 2: making it is that is constant waiting right, there's a 259 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 2: doctor Seuss line like the waiting place, like you wait 260 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: and wait and wait and wait, Like, Okay, so I 261 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 2: graduate from high school and then I'll go to college, 262 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 2: and then I'll get the internship, and then I'll get 263 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 2: the job, and then i'll get the go to graduate school, 264 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 2: and then I'll get the better job, and then and 265 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 2: then finally I'll be happy. There's a point in which 266 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 2: the door's open, the angels sing, You're like, as Marco Witz, 267 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 2: welcome to the time you are here. And then you're 268 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 2: like that that was it. No, that's not how any 269 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:51,160 Speaker 2: of it works. It's it's it's the small heartbreaks, and 270 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: it's learning to live with him. It's it's it's failing 271 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 2: and then learning to fail better and failing upwards as 272 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 2: as you go with it. That's honestly the theme of 273 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: I think everything I'm writing about it, and I think 274 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: that's the thing that we need right now, because we 275 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 2: are so fucking broken, all of us, our society. I 276 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 2: mean to quote Alana new House, my dear friend and 277 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 2: boss of Capital Magazine, who wrote this glorious piece called 278 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 2: Everything is Broken. Everything is Broken in America, slash the 279 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 2: world slash the cosmos right now, knowing how to live 280 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 2: with it and find meaning in it and repair it. 281 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: Not in this kind of dumb, you know, revolutionary Hey, 282 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 2: let me let me wave a Kama's flag and you know, 283 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,000 Speaker 2: block access to a cancer hospital because that's what I believe. 284 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 2: But but in a real kind of generative, emotional, human, helpful, 285 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 2: beautiful way. Boy, that's a tough skill to master. 286 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: What would you say is our largest societal problem. 287 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: It's it is eminently solvable, and it's it's a great 288 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 2: public health crisis that we don't talk about enough. It's 289 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 2: prestige addiction. It's this notion that so many of us 290 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: have was like, oh my god, I would have made 291 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 2: it once I have the degree from Columbia University or 292 00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 2: Harvard or Pane. Yeah, I would have made it once 293 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 2: I'm published by the New York Times. Oh I would 294 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 2: have made it once I'm a partner at this prestigious 295 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 2: law firm. We set so much store by these you know, validations. 296 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 2: But one of my favorite things about being in Los Angeles, 297 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 2: everyone drives everywhere and everything is valet and they ask 298 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 2: every ye do need validation, which, of course they made 299 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:34,240 Speaker 2: for the parking but I take it cosmically like, yes, 300 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 2: we all need validation, except we seek it in the 301 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 2: absolute wrong places. We seek it in you know, these institutions, 302 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 2: and not just these institutions, but institutions that have already 303 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: collapsed and crumbled into kind of like you know, fetid 304 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:52,680 Speaker 2: swamps of mutually accrediting mediocrites pursuing their power for evil. 305 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 2: I think we could stop. I think we should absolutely 306 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: stop and kind of get back to first principles. And 307 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,359 Speaker 2: here here's the thing. This is the source of great optimism. 308 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 2: It's happening everywhere. You could see it in a what 309 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 2: twenty thirty percent drop of advanced application admissions application to Harvard. 310 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 2: You could see it in like more and more people 311 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 2: just opting out of these corrupted structures. And you write 312 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 2: about this so well, and so beautifully and so frequently. 313 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 2: It's happening everywhere. It's a great coalition of normal Americans. 314 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 2: It defies left and right, religious and secular. We're curing 315 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 2: ourselves of this prestige addiction, one person at one American 316 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 2: at the time. 317 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: How do we move that process along? How do we 318 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: help that you know, ending. 319 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:45,240 Speaker 2: Two words courage and joy, both lacking tremendously. The first 320 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 2: is rather obvious, right, just to have the courage to say, like, 321 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, this is here's something that I say to 322 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 2: my children, who are twelve and ten three times a week. 323 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,240 Speaker 2: I'm not exaggerating, like maybe four times a week. Look, 324 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 2: I have a PhD from Columbia University. I taught at 325 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 2: Columbia for some years. I taught at NYU for almost 326 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 2: a decade. I'm a recovered academic. So maybe easy for 327 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,440 Speaker 2: me to say, but I say to my twelve and 328 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 2: ten year old three times a week, you are never 329 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 2: going to college. You're never going to college because I'm 330 00:18:16,119 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 2: not paying, you know, two hundred and fifty thousand dollars 331 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:22,320 Speaker 2: and spending four years of your life for someone to 332 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 2: basically train you to be a Nazi. Like that's not 333 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,040 Speaker 2: happening in our household. That's the courage part, the bigger part, 334 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:33,080 Speaker 2: and some people have that, although not enough, but they're optimistic. 335 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 2: The bigger part, and the more troublesome part, is the 336 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 2: joy part. Right, it's not enough just to say, well, 337 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: we hate universities, the campus woke ideology, like eighty five 338 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:47,040 Speaker 2: percent of what I hear, and like, you know, the 339 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,720 Speaker 2: media that I consume is all this. The joy part 340 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 2: is say, like, guys, actually, we have amazing ideas and 341 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 2: we have better you know, attitudes and views in life, 342 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 2: and we love them and we're very proud of them. 343 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 2: We're out of our faith traditions. We're proud of our communities. 344 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,400 Speaker 2: We're proud of our solutions to these problems that are 345 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 2: much more ancient and sustainable than anything you know, college 346 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,520 Speaker 2: professors have designed two and a half minutes ago, historically speaking, right, 347 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 2: I think this building and building with with grit and 348 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 2: happiness is what makes this country great. I believe in 349 00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 2: it wholeheartedly. I think the next couple of years are 350 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 2: going to be very tough, but in the long run, Look, 351 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 2: this is a covenantal nation. We renew the covenant every 352 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 2: couple of years, and it doesn't look the same for 353 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 2: any generation that renews the covenant. It didn't look the 354 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 2: same for the people in eighteen sixty one as it 355 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 2: did for the people in seventeen seventy six, and it 356 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 2: didn't look the same in nineteen sixty four as it 357 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 2: did in eighteen sixty one. It's our turnout and it's 358 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 2: going to be amazing. 359 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: So what does that look like practically, because you know 360 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,399 Speaker 1: you have a twelve and a ten year old, you're 361 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: saying they're never going to college. You're you're you're going 362 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: to hit up again. So what happens when they graduate 363 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: high school? They just they go to work? Is it? 364 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm in I'm into like send my kids 365 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 1: to college. I'm just afraid that they're going to want 366 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 1: to go to college. 367 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 2: First of all, they could go to college. What I say, 368 00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 2: to be very precise is I'm never paying for your 369 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 2: college once you're eighteen. If you wish to take and 370 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 2: make mistakes, I mean, legally I can't stop you. But 371 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 2: I do have a four I have a four pronged plan, 372 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 2: and it sounds very Soviet apologies, but I have been 373 00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 2: thinking about this a lot. My four prong plan is simple. 374 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 2: I want to take the four years they would have 375 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:36,000 Speaker 2: spent on college and to say, two hundred and thousand 376 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 2: dollars or so, all all things you know, considered, and 377 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 2: spend them the following way. I want about a quarter 378 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 2: of that time and money spent on them actually reading 379 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: books and learning, something which as we all know, necessarily 380 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 2: happen in college. It is not too difficult to put 381 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 2: together a very good kind of yees, set of readings 382 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 2: and kind of essential core competencies that replaces and surpasses 383 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 2: everything you would have learned at the Liberal It's four 384 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 2: years called. I want a quarter of the time and 385 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 2: money spent on traveling, because I think it is eminently 386 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 2: important for these kids to actually see the world and 387 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:25,119 Speaker 2: know what it's like, which again does not happen in 388 00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:29,440 Speaker 2: the mirthless, airless type quarters of college. I want a 389 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 2: quarter of this time spent picking up a skill, like 390 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 2: a real life skill, and it could be anything from 391 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 2: very high end skills like oh my god, now you 392 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 2: can program Python, and you could get a high beating 393 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 2: job to learn how to be a plumber, which is 394 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 2: something that humanity will always need as long as we 395 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,200 Speaker 2: have indoor plumbing, which hopefully is a long while. 396 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, well see right. 397 00:21:50,440 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 2: And then the fourth and then the fourth part of it, 398 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:56,520 Speaker 2: which I think is probably the most important, I want 399 00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 2: them to volunteer. I want them to give back to 400 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,120 Speaker 2: their community, which is something that you do not emphasize 401 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 2: at all. We do it kind of to check a 402 00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 2: box in the college application, but not in a real 403 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 2: way of like, look, this community has given you so much. 404 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 2: Life has given you so much time, time for you 405 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 2: to go and give back, and if possible in between, 406 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 2: if I get out a fifth, I want them to 407 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 2: fuck around. I want him to wander because I think 408 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 2: so much of the way that you know, life is 409 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,199 Speaker 2: set up for a young person. You never get a 410 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:26,480 Speaker 2: moment to just say like, Okay, I am now going 411 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 2: to just figure myself out, which is Lord knows, most 412 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 2: of us do it when we're forties. And then we 413 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 2: have terrible midlife crises and we have divorces, and we 414 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 2: buy dumb sports cars, and we do things that we 415 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 2: really would regret, you know. We have affairs, we like 416 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,120 Speaker 2: destroy our lives, we develop addictions. Let's do it when 417 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 2: we're nineteen, shall we. Let's just take a bunch of 418 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 2: time being like, here's what I'm gonna do. I'm just 419 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 2: gonna you know, live for a little. Yeah, all that 420 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 2: could be done on a much more pleasurable and much 421 00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:01,880 Speaker 2: more affordable calendar and budget than sending your kid to Oberlin. 422 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 423 00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,919 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marco It Show. I feel like 424 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,439 Speaker 1: I know that this is not your point, and I 425 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,520 Speaker 1: know you're not going to do this, but this could 426 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: actually be an extremely successful money maker. This program, this 427 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: four four to five prong program. You can fuck around, 428 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,000 Speaker 1: you know, leave that in, kick it out, whichever way 429 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: you want to go could be you know, because because 430 00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,239 Speaker 1: parents don't, I think a lot of parents send their 431 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: kids to college. I definitely have in my head that 432 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: my kids are going to college, even though I know 433 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: all the risks and all the problems with colleges and 434 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 1: all the negatives, just because I don't have the plan B. 435 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: I don't have the le alibivis you know, for prong 436 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: plan in mind. And I feel like people would buy 437 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 1: your program, which. 438 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 2: Is why I'm announcing right here and right now in 439 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 2: the Carrol Marco itself. 440 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:58,600 Speaker 1: I think you could charge way more than that, you know. 441 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 2: I think that's why I didn't say businessman when you 442 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,280 Speaker 2: ask me what I should have been, because obviously, right. 443 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 1: I think you're gonna need a businessman partner for this, 444 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 1: So which. 445 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,400 Speaker 2: Is why you're announcing right now in the camera. So no, 446 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:11,119 Speaker 2: no I am. 447 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 1: I too, am bad at business like most writers are. 448 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 1: So I think we're gonna we're gonna need some sort 449 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: of other person who knows what they're doing to make 450 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 1: this plan happen. But I you know, I again, I 451 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 1: know that this isn't your intention, But I think you 452 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: can provide parents in a plan B and a different 453 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: path to college, and I think a lot of people 454 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 1: would take that plan. 455 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 2: I would love to do something even better, sorry, mom, 456 00:24:35,359 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 2: if you're listening, than making a lot of money off 457 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 2: of it, I'd like to give it away for free because, 458 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 2: for example, look the sort of liberal arts curriculum you 459 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 2: could design a very good especially with the vast amount 460 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,000 Speaker 2: of you know, genuinely terrific lectures that exist online right now. 461 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,479 Speaker 2: You can design a very good kind of liberal arts 462 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:56,120 Speaker 2: education that the kid can consume a year for I'm 463 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: going to go in and say, maybe three hundred dollars 464 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 2: all things, like, all all books included done because a 465 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: lot of that stuff could be found for free online. 466 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that would be And this is why 467 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: writers don't make money. I just gave you a brilliant 468 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: million dollar idea and you're life. 469 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 2: I just told you. I'm giving it right back away 470 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,479 Speaker 2: for free. It's really a shame to be probably the 471 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 2: two Jews in the world whore like the worst with 472 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 2: like money. 473 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 1: Yeah, it sucks. So I love talking to Yuliel, and 474 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: here with your best tip for my listeners on how 475 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:29,560 Speaker 1: they can improve their lives. 476 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 2: This is an incredible question because I've been thinking about 477 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 2: it so much, and I realized that anything and everything 478 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 2: anyone says sounds like those, you know, incredibly hokey and corny, 479 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: you know, graduation speeches in which you say, well, you know, 480 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,439 Speaker 2: take time to like look around you and smell the 481 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 2: flowers or whatever. So I'll give two pieces of advice, 482 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 2: and one of them is a little bit more serious 483 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:57,720 Speaker 2: and the other is a little bit not. 484 00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: And I think I'll just interject for one second that 485 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,120 Speaker 1: I've heard from listeners who have told me that they've 486 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: changed like different parts of their lives based on that question. 487 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:08,959 Speaker 1: I know it sounds hokey, but it works. It's like 488 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 1: people need to hear the words, so tell us, tell 489 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: us what they need to do. 490 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,360 Speaker 2: I will give three three and you and you decided. 491 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 2: You decide which is which is serious and which is not. 492 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,680 Speaker 2: My first is to never ever order a vodka martini, 493 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 2: which is an abomination and a crime against civilization. And 494 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 2: also never to even use a shaker in your martini. 495 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 2: Just basically pour some gin into into your class. 496 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: I'm a Manhattan drinker. 497 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 2: General direction of a vermutha. Now, on a serious note, 498 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: I have I have two pieces of advice and they're 499 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:49,160 Speaker 2: kind of inter interlocking. The first is to be very 500 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 2: rude and the second is to be very extreme. And 501 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:55,640 Speaker 2: here's what I mean by that. We live in a 502 00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 2: very hyper connected world. Just since the beginning of this interview, 503 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 2: three devices, you know, cling, pinged and dingd trying to 504 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 2: kind of get my attention to it. I still never 505 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,400 Speaker 2: figured out that do not disturb thing. Most of us, 506 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 2: you know, get up every morning and be like, oh, 507 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 2: this is what I have to do today, and seventeen email, 508 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:22,440 Speaker 2: three hundred text messages, twenty WhatsApp threads, you know, signal notifications, 509 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 2: checking Twitter, going on Facebook, posting and Instagram. Later like 510 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 2: whatever happened to that email? I was supposed to write 511 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 2: the worst person in the world, as I think, you know, 512 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,439 Speaker 2: I think this, I think I've done this to you. 513 00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 2: I can sometimes not return calls or emails four months, 514 00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 2: by the way, including to my wife. I could tell 515 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 2: you what sure she really enjoys that she is an 516 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,520 Speaker 2: absolute amazing moment because she understands about me when I 517 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 2: have a project that really engrosses me, I'm one hundred 518 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 2: percent present in this project. So the message I suppose is, 519 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 2: you know, be here now, be complete present in what 520 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 2: you do. Do not return that call, do not return 521 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 2: that email. It's okay. Let people kind of seethe and 522 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 2: then just say I'm sorry, but let me tell you 523 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 2: about what i was doing. And I think they'll appreciate 524 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,239 Speaker 2: that much more because they know that you're not just 525 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 2: being a dick, but you're actually completely present. And the 526 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,640 Speaker 2: same goes for you know, your children. I never ever 527 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:23,359 Speaker 2: have my phone on me ever, even in the vicinity 528 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 2: of me when I'm in you know, a dinner with 529 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 2: friends or with my kids. Never my kids know that 530 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 2: I will tell them rudely again, I'm sorry, I don't 531 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,879 Speaker 2: have time for you today. I'm not gonna talk to 532 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 2: you because I'm not gonna do this. Spolshy think like, 533 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 2: oh honey, how is dinner? Click click click, phone front 534 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,360 Speaker 2: phone thing. They think, Yeah, I'm not gonna do it. 535 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 2: If I'm here with you, you know that I'm one 536 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 2: hundred percent here with you, and if not, just be like, 537 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I can't do it today or this week. 538 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 2: Or sometimes even this month, I will say to my kids, look, 539 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: i'm a dad line, I'm finishing a book. I'm sorry, 540 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 2: you're not gonna see me in you know, until May 541 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,320 Speaker 2: or whatever. I think they appreciate it much more so. 542 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 2: My first advice don't be afraid to be rude, if 543 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 2: that is what it takes to really be present in 544 00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,680 Speaker 2: what you do. And the second thing, which I think 545 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,040 Speaker 2: goes hand in hand with is which is wonderful, is 546 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 2: be extreme. Look, we are all taught by this kind 547 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 2: of devascinated, effeckless, spineless, bloodless educational system that the best 548 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 2: view is always from the fifty yards line, that you 549 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 2: always have to see all points of every available thing, 550 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 2: that you always have to be very reasonable and you know, 551 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 2: negotiate calmly and rationally, and you know what, eighty five 552 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 2: percent of the time it's great advice except for the 553 00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 2: fifteen percent of the time that it's and that fifteen 554 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 2: percent of the time counts for everything, because if you 555 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 2: do not have at least four things in your life 556 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 2: that you are willing to go completely all out, zero compromises, 557 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 2: zero fucks given over, then I don't think you're doing 558 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 2: this right. And it includes by the way, to so 559 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 2: many of US Jews, the ability to say I'm sorry. 560 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 2: I don't need to see the other side of this question. 561 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 2: I'm seeing my side. Do I care about what's going 562 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:05,960 Speaker 2: on in Gaza, Sure, it's terrible, you know what. I 563 00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 2: care much more about the one hundred and thirty something 564 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 2: Israelies that are kidnapped. That's my top priority. I'm not 565 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 2: gonna worry about this. This is what a normal person does. 566 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 2: Or to feel actual, real hatred of your enemies because 567 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,040 Speaker 2: they're evil people. To see the world in terms of 568 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 2: good and evil that really do exist. If you do 569 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 2: not believe in that, and if you do not have 570 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 2: the passion to want to root out evil, and if 571 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,720 Speaker 2: you're not willing to be extreme about saying I'm sorry, 572 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 2: I'm not compromising with these people. I don't care about 573 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:37,959 Speaker 2: the root causes or the you know, the reasons, or 574 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:43,479 Speaker 2: the justifications or their narrative. Fuck the root causes. I 575 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,520 Speaker 2: want them gone. That to me is a quality that 576 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 2: is much lacking. And if you could find a little bit, 577 00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,960 Speaker 2: a little bit of that burning intensity in your heart, 578 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:54,680 Speaker 2: I think you'll do much better. 579 00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,000 Speaker 1: I love that be extreme. Thank you so much. Leelle 580 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:02,600 Speaker 1: read them and table read one of his twenty eight books, 581 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,600 Speaker 1: Love to have you on. Thank you so much, What 582 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:08,760 Speaker 1: a pleasure. Thanks so much for joining us on The 583 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:11,920 Speaker 1: Carol Markowitz Show. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.