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Speaker 1: I felt like it would be better for them to

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Speaker 1: have a dad that was dead than a dad that

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Speaker 1: was gay. It's not something I've ever spoken about. Chris

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Speaker 1: Ampleton is a hairstylist to the stars including Jennifer Lopez

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Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian Do a leaper.

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Speaker 2: When did you realize that you couldn't stop hiding who

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Speaker 2: you really were?

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Speaker 1: I came out in twenty six and all the people

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Speaker 1: said to me, well, you must have already known and

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Speaker 1: just hit it, And I wasn't aware that I did know.

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Speaker 1: Being a gay child, I learned to hide myself when

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Speaker 1: I did hair. There was this whole thing about sexuality,

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Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, you're gay. Being gay must be

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Speaker 1: bad because people are you know. They weren't saying it

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Speaker 1: in a nice way, like you're gay. They were like,

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Speaker 1: you're gay.

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Speaker 2: There was you who filed for a divorce. Everything you've

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Speaker 2: been through, I can imagine that's not easy.

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Speaker 1: Just because it's not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something.

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Speaker 1: People say things about you. There's things in the tabloid.

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Speaker 1: I was going through a lot of private pain. What

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Speaker 1: really helped me was not being okay.

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Speaker 2: You right about the night that you tried to end

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Speaker 2: your life.

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Speaker 1: They close my eyes and this is it. I won't

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Speaker 1: hurt anyone anymore.

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Speaker 2: We reached out to the kids. They send us a

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Speaker 2: note for you.

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Speaker 1: Oh ye, I don't know what to thro The number

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Speaker 1: one health and wellness podcast.

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Speaker 2: Jay Setdy, Jay Shaddy sly Set Hey, everyone, welcome back

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Speaker 2: to On Purpose. Thank you so much for tuning into

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Speaker 2: the place you come to become a happier, healthier, and

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Speaker 2: more healed. Every guest I sit down with has been

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Speaker 2: on an incredible healing journey, whether it's their mind, their emotions,

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Speaker 2: or even their soul. And today's guest is someone who's

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Speaker 2: been on an unexpected internal journey because their life is

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Speaker 2: so public and external. Today's guest is Chris Appleton, a

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Speaker 2: renowned celebrity hairstylist best known for creating iconic looks for

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Speaker 2: the likes of Kim Kardashian, Jennifer Lopez, Ariana Grande, and

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Speaker 2: so many more. Chris is the global creative director for

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Speaker 2: Colour Wow Hair and a social media sensation with over

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Speaker 2: seven million followers. His work is regularly featured in Vogue,

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Speaker 2: Harper's Bizarre l and in Style. In his debut book,

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Speaker 2: Your Roots, don't define you. Chris opens up about identity,

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Speaker 2: transformation and self work. So I want you to support Chris.

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Speaker 2: Go and pre order it right now. Please, Welcome to

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Speaker 2: On Purpose Chris Appleton. Chris, it's great to have you here,

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Speaker 2: great to finally be here. I mean, we have bumped

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Speaker 2: into each other in a million places, absolutely, whether it's

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Speaker 2: Jims Cities, Jims in Miami, Paris, La. And I've always

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Speaker 2: been an admirer of you and your work from the outside.

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Speaker 2: You work with incredible people. They have so much love

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Speaker 2: and respect for you. But I have to be honest

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Speaker 2: and say that when I've read the book, I have

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Speaker 2: a different level of respect for you that came from

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Speaker 2: this book because I can see you really want to

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Speaker 2: help people, and I can see that you want to

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Speaker 2: use your journey as a way of supporting other people's journeys.

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Speaker 2: And that fascinating because you don't really know that when

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Speaker 2: you follow someone on Instagram or see them. So I'm

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Speaker 2: glad that we get to pull back the curtain on

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Speaker 2: your life and understand you more.

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Speaker 1: No, absolutely, And I think there's so much about that

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Speaker 1: that we make an assumption of people by social media

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Speaker 1: just what we see because it's surface level and there's

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Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that. But I think it's so nice

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Speaker 1: to be able to get to know more and just

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Speaker 1: know some of the magic of how things are done

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Speaker 1: and how everyone else can have a part of that.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I hope with the book, that people

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Speaker 1: feel like they can have a part of that and

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Speaker 1: you know, help make that come back.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's so nice to sit with another man

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Speaker 2: from England and think about the crazy journey. We just

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Speaker 2: realized we both moved to the States nine years ago.

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Speaker 1: I have no regrets. What about you?

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Speaker 2: No, me too.

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Speaker 1: I love it here.

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Speaker 2: It's been amazing to me. It's been so good to me.

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Speaker 2: I feel like it's been good to you as well. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: And I'm in Londoner at heart, always through and through.

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Speaker 2: But there's a beauty to living here. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's so many nice things when you go home,

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Speaker 1: Like I just went back and the chocolate. I just

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Speaker 1: always love the chocolate. It's a little sweeter, a little

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Speaker 1: bit of a sweet milk exactly. Yeah, I just like

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Speaker 1: dairy milk, the milk. Yeah, but I'm always fat. I'm

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Speaker 1: like sitting in the stores, like just looking at all

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Speaker 1: of the that I remember remember pickled on your cris Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly all the things, but no, it's fun to go back,

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Speaker 1: but LA is definitely home now, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 2: Love that well, Chris. I wanted to ask you something

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Speaker 2: that I often ask a lot of guests because I

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Speaker 2: think I'm always fascinated by how who we were places

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Speaker 2: imprints on us into who we become. And I wanted

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Speaker 2: to ask you, do you have a childhood experience that

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Speaker 2: you remember that you think has defined who you are today?

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Speaker 2: An experience or a memory that you have that you

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Speaker 2: feel had some coding into who you've become today.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's funny you say that, because I have

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Speaker 1: a very distinct memory, but for a long time it

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Speaker 1: was a really sad one. But the more I've understood

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Speaker 1: that memory, the more I realized it was kind of

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Speaker 1: where I was at in my life. And it's sad

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Speaker 1: because I guess it was a memory at the age

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Speaker 1: of it was maybe sort of eight and nine years old,

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Speaker 1: and I remember looking outside the window. I'll come from

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Speaker 1: a big family in the UK and one of five.

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Speaker 1: We were you know, really working class, if not poor.

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Speaker 1: You know, we didn't have many luxuries and life was real.

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Speaker 1: It was very you know, different to La and sunshine.

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Speaker 1: It was rainy and gray, and I remember sort of

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Speaker 1: looking out the window and I felt like I didn't

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Speaker 1: really belong I knew I felt different. I knew there

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Speaker 1: was something different, Like my brothers enjoyed doing football and sports,

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Speaker 1: and my sisters like doing girls things like I don't

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Speaker 1: know why we were playing with bobbies or braiding hair, and

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Speaker 1: I kind of felt somewhere in the middle. I didn't

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Speaker 1: really feel like I fit in. I was a middle

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Speaker 1: child also, and I remember just looking out and I

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Speaker 1: felt quite alone. And I think that was the beginning

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Speaker 1: of me kind of abandoning myself in a way to

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Speaker 1: fit in, to fit in with what I think people

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Speaker 1: around me thought I should be or who I was

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Speaker 1: told to be. So that memory was in one way,

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Speaker 1: it's very motivational now I know what it meant because

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Speaker 1: I can kind of go back to that moment and

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Speaker 1: I've learned that sur in therapy and sort of been

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Speaker 1: able to like connect with that inner child, which for

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Speaker 1: so long I ignored. But I think for me, it was

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Speaker 1: a real special moment that I go back to because

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Speaker 1: you can kind of change that, you can change what

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Speaker 1: you came from and that's a lot about what the

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Speaker 1: book's about. It's about how your roots don't define you,

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Speaker 1: and it really is about you know, we all grow

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Speaker 1: up being told to be something or be someone, or

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Speaker 1: we have influencers around us which kind of leaders into

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Speaker 1: a certain part of our lives, and sometimes we stop

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Speaker 1: and look in the mirror and don't recognize how we

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Speaker 1: got there, let alone how we look. You know, sometimes

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Speaker 1: I've worked with clients and I'll say, you've got short,

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Speaker 1: dark hair and bangs. Why is that? And why just

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Speaker 1: what I've always had? I don't know we ever thought

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Speaker 1: about going lighter and long? No, not really? Why not?

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Speaker 1: Well just because that's not what they kind of then

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Speaker 1: stop and go, well, why have I never thought that?

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Speaker 1: Because no one ever given the freedom to. And a

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Speaker 1: lot about what my job was about is really kind

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Speaker 1: of opening people up. It's really starts on the outside

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Speaker 1: as a visual, but then once you start going internal

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Speaker 1: with things and breaking down these kind of boundaries, it's

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Speaker 1: really quite magical what can happen. And that, in a

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Speaker 1: nutshell is kind of what I've always done. Gone that

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Speaker 1: little bit deeper, and I guess going back to that

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Speaker 1: childhood memory really helps me kind of remember that that

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Speaker 1: your roots really don't define you, and you do have

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Speaker 1: a chance to start again. It's never too late.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such an interesting connection that you made there,

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Speaker 2: because most people wouldn't see that. You wouldn't think that

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Speaker 2: something aesthetic like that about yourself is so deep rooted,

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Speaker 2: but it is. And all these limitations and blocks and

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Speaker 2: all this conditioning that we all have, whether it's about

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Speaker 2: who you can become, how much money you can make,

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Speaker 2: who you're meant to be in the world. And for you,

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Speaker 2: you fell in love with the hair quite early, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was something you discovered. Really, what was the discovery

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Speaker 2: of it? I think it was, honestly, the first time

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Speaker 2: I felt good at something. I was pretty young.

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Speaker 1: I was maybe like nine ten years old as a

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Speaker 1: similar age where I was dyslexic, so I really knew

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Speaker 1: what that was then. So you were kind of just

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Speaker 1: told you were stupid. I remember I used to sit

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Speaker 1: in the classes and I was like, please come one

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Speaker 1: into the question because I did not know what he

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Speaker 1: was going on about. When I sort of started to paint,

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Speaker 1: I noticed I got like a reaction. And then when

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Speaker 1: I started to use my hands and do hair, which

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Speaker 1: was my mom. At the time, I realized you had

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Speaker 1: this ability to sort of change the way people felt.

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Speaker 1: I really liked that. I loved that you could transform people.

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Speaker 1: I was really mesmized by that. But I noticed people

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Speaker 1: reacted different, and I felt like that was almost like

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Speaker 1: a superpower. So I just thought, I'm going to be

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Speaker 1: the best at it. This is what I'm good at.

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Speaker 1: I'll be the best at it, and I'll prove everyone wrong.

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Speaker 1: I'm not stupid. And again just being conditioned to I mean,

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Speaker 1: I was pretty bullied at school because of that. And

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Speaker 1: then when I did hair, there was this whole thing

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Speaker 1: about sexuality and it's like, oh, you're gay because no

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Speaker 1: one back then did hair espec when had a job

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Speaker 1: at thirteen, and doing hair was you know, stereotypically where

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Speaker 1: I grew up, people you know, said okay, wee are

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Speaker 1: you gay? And that was before I al really even

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Speaker 1: understood sexuality. I didn't even really consider it. I was

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Speaker 1: just a young guy having a great time. You know,

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Speaker 1: when you're a kid, you just you're free. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's great. It's such a good feeling. And then the

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Speaker 1: harsh reality of life slaps around the face one day

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Speaker 1: and I remember sort of things, was like, well bad,

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Speaker 1: that's bad, Like being gay must be bad because people

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Speaker 1: are They weren't saying it in a nice way, like

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Speaker 1: you're gay. They were like you're gay. You know, people

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Speaker 1: would like spit on you. And I mean it was bad.

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Speaker 1: I got bullied quite aggressively, and I think that really

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Speaker 1: led me to push, and I guess push away from myself.

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Speaker 1: That's I think when the curtain started to come down

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Speaker 1: and I really abandoned myself because I started to become

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Speaker 1: a version of myself that I thought other people wanted

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Speaker 1: to see. So talk a little bit more masculine, stand

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Speaker 1: more masculine. You know, you start to become very aware

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Speaker 1: of your mannerisms. Doing hair was feminine. So I kind

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Speaker 1: of kept it to myself and I just kept my

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Speaker 1: head down. I didn't want to tell people about it.

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Speaker 1: And it's really sad because I think being a gay child,

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Speaker 1: I learned to hide myself. I lean to hide the

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Speaker 1: parts of myself with authentic and I adapted myself into

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Speaker 1: being something that I thought other people wanted me to be.

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Speaker 1: And as an adult, what you have to do is

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Speaker 1: then on pick those parts and find out what were

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Speaker 1: the parts that are actually me? And the parts that

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Speaker 1: I created for other people. And as much as anything,

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Speaker 1: I go back to the book, like there is stories

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Speaker 1: about my life and as reflection, but it's really about

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Speaker 1: helping people get to get back to theirs and on

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Speaker 1: pick it as well, because sometimes it takes a bit

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Speaker 1: of that work, and that work can be brutal. It's

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Speaker 1: not the easiest work I've ever done, but I would

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Speaker 1: say the most rewarding for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I like the way you drew that when you

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Speaker 2: reflect on your past, you've got to pick a part

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Speaker 2: of the parts that you've made for yourself and the

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Speaker 2: parts that you made yourself. That's such a great.

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Speaker 1: And everyone has that, you know. If you grow up

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Speaker 1: into a family of religion, or if you grow into

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Speaker 1: a family of different beliefs and cultures, you tend to

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Speaker 1: take them on, even relationships. You know, we look at

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Speaker 1: relationships of like that's how mom and dad interacts, and

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Speaker 1: you kind of carry that for out your life. And

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Speaker 1: it's not until you get into relationships an adult and

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, you can do it differently, you know.

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Speaker 1: And they're all the lessons we learn as adults. But

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Speaker 1: not everyone is, like I guess aware of that. Not

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Speaker 1: everyone is aware is you can change the story, and

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Speaker 1: there's a real freedom to doing that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to go down two paths based on

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Speaker 2: what you said, but the first path before we go

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Speaker 2: down the other, because the other will lead to more

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Speaker 2: different opportunities to talk about. But the first part is

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Speaker 2: you said you wanted to become the best. As soon

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Speaker 2: as you discovered you can do hair, you're like, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to become really good at this. Yeah, what did

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Speaker 2: it take to become the best at what you do?

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Speaker 2: Because you are, you work with the best, you consider

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Speaker 2: the best by the people that you serve. What did

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Speaker 2: that take? Because I think often when we look at athletes,

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Speaker 2: or you look at business, there's people who've told those stories.

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Speaker 2: But when you take something as artistic as air, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we don't necessarily think about it in the same way totally,

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Speaker 2: at least publicly, even though it's such an important part

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Speaker 2: of daily life that everyone has, right And so I

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Speaker 2: want you to walk me through, like what was that process? Like?

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Speaker 2: Like what did that take? What did that look like?

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Speaker 1: I think I just was so determined not to be stupid,

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Speaker 1: not to be deemed as bad or different, that I

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Speaker 1: really wanted to be good at something, and like I say,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of a double edged sort because it motivated

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Speaker 1: me to want to do better. And my focus really

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Speaker 1: was to just get on it as fast as I could,

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Speaker 1: and I just put everything I had into hair. Like

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Speaker 1: I got a job at the age of thirteen and

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Speaker 1: I just had a salon. Yeah, And I remember my

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Speaker 1: first day. I remember it very clear. I remember standing

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Speaker 1: against the wall and I saw people walking one way

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Speaker 1: and I saw them then walk out another way once

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Speaker 1: they have their hair done, and I swear they were

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Speaker 1: standing a little taller and then you know, their shoulders

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Speaker 1: went back and I was like, this is good. I

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Speaker 1: love this, and I was like I want to do

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Speaker 1: I remember literally thinking this is what I'm going to do.

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Speaker 1: And I just like every aspect of parent if I

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Speaker 1: didn't know how to do it, I'd find out, you know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, eventually, as my career regressed and I became

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Speaker 1: top sort of hair stylist, and then was like, what's

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Speaker 1: outside of this? So I'd look outside. I was like, Oh,

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Speaker 1: this is thing called editorial hair, and there's fashion shows

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Speaker 1: and there's and every every kind of block was like

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Speaker 1: a beginning again because no one really kind of like

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Speaker 1: if you're a sale hairdresser. You're just a soale hairdress

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Speaker 1: so you can't be a fashion hairdresser. You know, they

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Speaker 1: kind of there's a competition. Yeah, totally. It's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: people love to put you in a box. All my life,

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Speaker 1: people love to put me, and I still to today,

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Speaker 1: I'm always trying to fight being put out of box.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you can relate to that. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people just still love to put

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Speaker 1: you where they know you can stay. And I just

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Speaker 1: pushed myself to know every aspect and if I didn't

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Speaker 1: know what it was. I remember, for example, I eventually

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Speaker 1: got an editorial job and they wanted a look that

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Speaker 1: I just didn't know how to do, and I just

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Speaker 1: got in a car. I took myself to this local

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Speaker 1: salon and she did this. It was like this, this

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Speaker 1: like weaving technique of it's called a basket weave, and

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Speaker 1: like I would sit there and watch her and just

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Speaker 1: pay this woman to sit and watch and I'd sit

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Speaker 1: with her doll's head up all night. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I just I think I just went above and beyond.

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Speaker 1: I loved what I did, I still love what I do,

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Speaker 1: and I just I think that combined with again a

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Speaker 1: bit of a blessing in a curse, like a little

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Speaker 1: bit of an OCD mentality, where I wanted it to

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Speaker 1: be good and I could see things. I don't just

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Speaker 1: let things go. I can see every detail and every

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Speaker 1: little hair, and I think that can combined and just

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Speaker 1: the passion to want to be good at something just

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Speaker 1: pushed me. And it's funny now because it's only now

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Speaker 1: I'm forty two and I look back at videos. I

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Speaker 1: recently just put some things on social media because someone

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Speaker 1: came from the UK with a big box of DVDs,

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Speaker 1: and even I forgot what I did to get to

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Speaker 1: where I've got. Every competition I did and I didn't

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Speaker 1: win and failed, and every you know, educational thing that

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Speaker 1: I failed because of my dislexay. I just kept bouncing

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Speaker 1: back and the nose. I had people laugh in my face,

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Speaker 1: you know. I remember eventually I got an agent, and

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Speaker 1: I was so excited about the next steps, and they'd

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Speaker 1: laugh at me. They were like, you know, you just

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Speaker 1: need to stay where you are and keep it real,

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Speaker 1: and they'd send me on a photo shoot for some

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Speaker 1: flip flop commercial. I just I didn't care. I was

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Speaker 1: just determined, and I think you have to have that

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Speaker 1: resilience along the way. I think you really have to

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Speaker 1: have that intern or resilience to stay focused. And it's

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Speaker 1: not it was never one thing. It was just lots

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Speaker 1: of little leap frog moments. Everyone thinks it's this big moment.

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Speaker 1: It really isn't. It's just a build. But I would

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Speaker 1: say one of my biggest secrets to success in that

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Speaker 1: area was just to be consistent. I stayed consistent and

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Speaker 1: when I got knocked down, I got back up on

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Speaker 1: a carry on and I tried to land by every

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Speaker 1: mistake as I went along. You know, I if I failed,

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Speaker 1: I was like, why did I fail in that person? Wait?

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Speaker 1: Why did that person get it? And I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: would look and I analyze the situation and come back. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think that's a lot of what it takes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, it's good advice. It's also good to hear

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Speaker 2: that there's no industry in which you just one day

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Speaker 2: get a call from, you know, totally the biggest star

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Speaker 2: in the world. It's like everyone's earned their stripes and

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Speaker 2: done the work, and it's good to hear about it.

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Speaker 2: Whether it's podcasting, whether it's hair whether it's music and

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Speaker 2: athletes that we've had, it's it's always that you always

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Speaker 2: hear that same story. But going back to England and

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Speaker 2: talking about the derogatory use of the term gay, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I went to a boys school and I think about

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Speaker 2: all the guys at my school that got so bullied

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Speaker 2: because we went to a boys school as well. And

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Speaker 2: now when I look at how many guys in my

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Speaker 2: school were gay but never came out until years later,

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Speaker 2: some of them at university, some of them much later

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Speaker 2: than that, and I'm just like, wow, they never even

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Speaker 2: had the opportunity because they thought immediately that if they

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Speaker 2: were to say that at our school, they were going

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Speaker 2: to get bullied for it. And so I get how

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Speaker 2: real that was at that time especially, and of course

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Speaker 2: there are still parts of the world where that's still

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Speaker 2: the case. But how early were you sure about that

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Speaker 2: being part of your identity and were you consciously masking

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Speaker 2: it or was it still a discovery of your identity

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Speaker 2: or was it like, oh, I know that's true and

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Speaker 2: I'm going to hide it now, as you said, you

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Speaker 2: had to abandon yourself, or was it like I don't

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Speaker 2: really know what that is and I'm discovering and figuring

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Speaker 2: it out. How was it for.

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Speaker 1: You as to this A lot? It took me a

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Speaker 1: while to understand because in the beginning I didn't know myself.

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Speaker 1: I came out in twenty six and all of people

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Speaker 1: said to me, well, you must have already known, like

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Speaker 1: and just hit it, And I wasn't aware that I

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Speaker 1: did know. And I'll tell you now, Jay, like, the

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Speaker 1: brain is such a powerful tool, and shame is such

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Speaker 1: a powerful tool. And when I think back to that

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Speaker 1: eight year old kid that just felt different and I

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Speaker 1: had to hide it, like, I feel so sad for

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Speaker 1: that little guy, because it really did abandon myself and

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Speaker 1: I think I just I shut it out. I didn't

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Speaker 1: even allow myself to think about it. It was before sexuality.

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Speaker 1: I was even thinking about having sex, so anything like that,

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Speaker 1: I just knew it was bad and I just pushed

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Speaker 1: it away. So I went through my life, like I said,

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Speaker 1: trying to just be normal, and as far as I

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Speaker 1: was aware, it was fine. And it's not until you

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Speaker 1: really you have these moments where you stop at life.

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Speaker 1: Life makes you stop sometimes if you don't choose to

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Speaker 1: stop and look in the mirror, sometimes life makes you

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Speaker 1: stop it's a you know, something, you losing a family member,

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Speaker 1: it can be anything. But sometimes you have to sit

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Speaker 1: with yourself. And I don't know that ever allowed myself

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Speaker 1: to know. I never had the space to express that.

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Speaker 1: And that's why I'm hoping with like the book, that

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Speaker 1: I can help someone that feels not seen and someone

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Speaker 1: that is going through a hard time, or someone that

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Speaker 1: is successful but miserable when they get home, because I

405
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Speaker 1: never got that opportunity and finding that makes such a difference.

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Speaker 1: It makes a difference in the job you do, the

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Speaker 1: relationships you have, the friendships you have, and just generally

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Speaker 1: who you are as a person.

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Speaker 2: I think that's what people don't realize. I love that

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Speaker 2: point just made that it actually impacts all other parts

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Speaker 2: of yourself crazy, because it is your identity. It's crazy,

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Speaker 2: it's who you are. And so if you're hiding that part,

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Speaker 2: you're hiding all these other skills and talents and abilities.

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Speaker 2: I know because one of my closest friends came out

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Speaker 2: when he was thirty. Yeah, and he just and he

416
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Speaker 2: grew up in a Muslim background, and so that was

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Speaker 2: extremely hard for me because of the religious pressure, and

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Speaker 2: it was such a journey for him and he thinks

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Speaker 2: about who he became after that age, and it's almost

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Speaker 2: like everything went in its favor after that. Yeah, Whereas

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Speaker 2: up until that point it always felt like everything was

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Speaker 2: working against him. But he, like you, also felt that

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Speaker 2: he had to hide and you know, not be honest

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Speaker 2: with himself.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think my whole life changed when I authentically

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Speaker 1: and it took a few years to get to that point.

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Speaker 1: It took ver a bit, took understanding, it took being

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Speaker 1: with myself. But part of that was moving to LA

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Speaker 1: And I think the great thing about moving to LA

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Speaker 1: was that I didn't feel any shame because I'm also

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Speaker 1: a dad and I hold that very close to my heart.

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Speaker 1: My biggest focus in life is being a great dad

433
00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 1: to two kids, and any parent out that can connect

434
00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:44,960
Speaker 1: to that, I will always put them before myself. The

435
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 1: difficulty with shame is it's very different, difficult to heal.

436
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,399
Speaker 1: When I wasn't just feeling my shame, I was feeling

437
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,639
Speaker 1: shame for them. I was feeling shame. Yeah, I felt

438
00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,960
Speaker 1: a lot of shame and moving to America, the part

439
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,080
Speaker 1: of it that became easier is because an introduction could

440
00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 1: be like, hey, I'm Chris and it's like I'm gay,

441
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, and no one blinks an eyelid. But where

442
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,480
Speaker 1: I grew up in the town where people knew me, Hey,

443
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,240
Speaker 1: I'm Chris, and it's like I didn't feel confident to

444
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:13,679
Speaker 1: say I was gay, and if I did, they'd be like, oh,

445
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:15,320
Speaker 1: he used to be he's got a family, he's got kids,

446
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,679
Speaker 1: Oh my god, you know, and there was always this

447
00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 1: secret conversation. It was just this It felt dark still,

448
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:22,080
Speaker 1: it still felt like people wanted to keep putting me

449
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,840
Speaker 1: back in the box. So, you know, it was kind

450
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:26,560
Speaker 1: of part of moving to America was at the first

451
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,159
Speaker 1: time that I could experience what it was really like

452
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,680
Speaker 1: to come out without all of the outside noise because

453
00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 1: I'd already made a life on myself. Yeah, and you know,

454
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,960
Speaker 1: I get it. People. When there's a secret, people want

455
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:39,240
Speaker 1: to talk. People love to you know, when there's a secret,

456
00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:40,680
Speaker 1: people want to know the answer to it. Yeah.

457
00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,520
Speaker 2: Talk to me about that time in your life, because

458
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,400
Speaker 2: when you started dating the mother of your children. Yeah,

459
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 2: and that experience you were married for like ten years,

460
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:50,720
Speaker 2: nine years, nine years, Yes, it was it's a long

461
00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:51,400
Speaker 2: period of time.

462
00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 1: We were never married, but we were yeah, nine years

463
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,560
Speaker 1: and committed yeah, I mean it was amazing. I generally

464
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:58,639
Speaker 1: believe I was meant to meet Kate. We were together

465
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 1: for nine years and it was magical. Nine years. It

466
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,240
Speaker 1: was great. I had two kids, and I honestly, for

467
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,439
Speaker 1: I had it all figured out. I remember at the weekend,

468
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 1: I'd be doing I'd be doing the man stay, I'll

469
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,439
Speaker 1: be painting the fence, I'd be like fixing things. You know.

470
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,000
Speaker 1: I was just doing all the things that I thought

471
00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 1: I was supposed to do as a man. And when

472
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,199
Speaker 1: I did realize I was gay, I mean, god, it

473
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 1: came crashing down.

474
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 2: Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from

475
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 2: our sponsors and back to our episode. What do you

476
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 2: think it was about that moment that allowed you to

477
00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,360
Speaker 2: be conscious that you were, like you said, for so long,

478
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,639
Speaker 2: you were hiding it, you were suppressing it, you were

479
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,640
Speaker 2: putting aside. You're doing all the quote unquote things you're

480
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,400
Speaker 2: meant to do as a man. What was it that

481
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,840
Speaker 2: brought that up for you? When you felt like like

482
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 2: you just said, you felt like you'd figured it all out.

483
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 2: You're two beautiful kids.

484
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 1: You loved, you know, because from the age of a

485
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 1: to the age of twenty seven that held my breath

486
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: and I could finally excel. I couldn't hold my breath anymore.

487
00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it. I tried, I kept trying to,

488
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 1: like and I I couldn't. And once I put my

489
00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: tiptoes into breathing, and how good that felt, I couldn't

490
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,320
Speaker 1: stop it. But then came the shame of, like, well,

491
00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 1: I'm going to hurt all these people I've created this

492
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: life with. So I kept pulling back until I just

493
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:14,639
Speaker 1: had to let go.

494
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 2: How long did you carry that that shame of? I know,

495
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 2: but I don't want to tell them because it would

496
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:21,840
Speaker 2: hurt them and break what they've built.

497
00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,880
Speaker 1: Once I knew, I had an experience which I talk

498
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,280
Speaker 1: a bit about in the book, and it wasn't anything heavy,

499
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 1: but I was, I said, when I was a kid,

500
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: I was sat down. I grew up in northern England.

501
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,719
Speaker 1: There wasn't middle to north, and it was kind of there.

502
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,160
Speaker 1: Being gay wasn't really a thing. There was a gay

503
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: pub in town, but it was on the outskirts and

504
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 1: the men that went were quite flamboyant. It wasn't really

505
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: spoken about. Princess Diana was on the news shaking a

506
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: man with AIDS without gloves, and that was headline news

507
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: because you know, the like could she get AIDS? And

508
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 1: I'm shaking this man's hand. People didn't know enough about it,

509
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:01,919
Speaker 1: and they knew about AIDS, and it was kind of

510
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:04,280
Speaker 1: told to me that gay enda AIDS, so I was

511
00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,199
Speaker 1: also fearful of that. One I was prone to OZD like,

512
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,520
Speaker 1: I just felt very conscious of that. So I had

513
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,440
Speaker 1: an experience that I kind of met someone. We became friends,

514
00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 1: and it never really went beyond friendship, but he told

515
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 1: me one day that he was HIV positive. I remember

516
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 1: he didn't even live near me. We had a phone call,

517
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 1: conversation daily, but I became friends with him, and it

518
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:26,479
Speaker 1: was the first time that I was kind of like,

519
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,919
Speaker 1: I like this guy, like I really like him, and

520
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:30,439
Speaker 1: I kind of was trying to understand it. So it

521
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:31,840
Speaker 1: was a slow process. And then he told me you

522
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:33,880
Speaker 1: had HIV and I was like, well, I can't. I'm good.

523
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,400
Speaker 1: I'm absolutely good. So I literally just cut it off.

524
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: And even though I hadn't done anything, I felt like,

525
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 1: oh my god, cod I get a HVI because this

526
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: is a thing I don't know. It was really really scary,

527
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: and then I guess over the process of the next year.

528
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: I think once, like I say, you kind of put

529
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: your foot in the water. It was just it was

530
00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 1: hard to go back. And then once I actually did

531
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 1: meet someone, yeah, that was it. There was there was

532
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: no going back.

533
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 2: That period of your life, I can imagine is when

534
00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 2: you look back at it now, it's probably one of

535
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 2: the most difficult times because it's almost like.

536
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 1: It got way harder.

537
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, which we'll get to. But that moment of I

538
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 2: can finally be honest with myself, but I don't know

539
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 2: how to be honest with the people that I love.

540
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,720
Speaker 2: That's like a there's one thing of like, oh wow,

541
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 2: I can finally be honest with myself.

542
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: That's huge.

543
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, but then it's always harder when you're trying to

544
00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:27,880
Speaker 2: express to the other people. I imagine, what was it

545
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,400
Speaker 2: like telling your partner at the time.

546
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 1: I told initially my partner, and that was a process,

547
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,359
Speaker 1: and I also had to respect that she needed to

548
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: go through her own grief.

549
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 2: Were you aware of that at the time when you

550
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 2: told them? Yeah, well that's mature.

551
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 1: Because I loved her, I really loved her, and I

552
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,199
Speaker 1: didn't want to be gay. I didn't want to be different.

553
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,080
Speaker 1: I went back to being the kid at school. But

554
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: once I told her, I kind of just went on automatic.

555
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: I told my family and everyone needed to process it

556
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 1: the way they needed to process it, and I just

557
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,399
Speaker 1: had to be respectful of that. You have to let

558
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 1: people go through their own grief. I can't control their emotions,

559
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: nor do I want to. I think it's really important

560
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 1: for people to feel and go through the process. But

561
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: the hardest part was telling my kids, and I think

562
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 1: mentally for me, I couldn't really ever get my head

563
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 1: around that. I've never actually spoke about this. I didn't

564
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:28,480
Speaker 1: think I ever would, but I do feel ready. I

565
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:30,399
Speaker 1: feel ready to talk to people because I feel like,

566
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 1: hopefully it will help someone else that's going through a

567
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,440
Speaker 1: difficult time. But my job as a dad, I felt,

568
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:36,840
Speaker 1: was to protect my kids. Going through what I went

569
00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: through as a kid, being bullied was horrible. My childhood

570
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 1: was a lot of memories are not great ones. So

571
00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,400
Speaker 1: the idea of bringing that to my kids was really

572
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: painful to feel that they would get botheried because their

573
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 1: dad was gay. I know the things that kids say

574
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: and how I mean they can be, and I just

575
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: didn't want them to ever have that shame that was

576
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: put on me, onto them, and in a way, I

577
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: felt like I felt like a disease. I felt like

578
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: it was like a cancer. I wanted to clear it

579
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: out of me. I was like, if I could just

580
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,520
Speaker 1: get rid of that, then I could just be a

581
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: normal dad for them, because that's what they need, you know.

582
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:15,160
Speaker 1: I just, I just I felt so selfish putting myself first.

583
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: So eventually people started to talk, as they do. It

584
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,200
Speaker 1: was a small town, and me and Kate decided to

585
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:27,320
Speaker 1: tell the kids, so I couldn't even say the words.

586
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: And I think maybe a lot of people can relate

587
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,959
Speaker 1: to this. Initially, saying the words I'm gay is a

588
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: challenge because once those words are out, it's done. I

589
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: actually didn't say it. The mother of Kate's mum actually

590
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 1: said it. And then I just saw these two beautiful

591
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: kids who were like six and eight, and they were

592
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: just they were upset because they knew why I was upset,

593
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,320
Speaker 1: and they were confused, and all of a sudden, I

594
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: just felt like I'd I felt like I just messed

595
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: their life up, and I felt like I'd failed as

596
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: a dad because my job was to protect them and

597
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: if anyone ever hurt them, I would protect them. But

598
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: I was the one hurt in them, and I couldn't

599
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 1: understand that. I also just couldn't hide it was gay anymore.

600
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:15,440
Speaker 1: I was so exhausted from it. So after telling them

601
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:21,160
Speaker 1: it just a confusion killed me. And my son said

602
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 1: to me, you know it, does that mean you're going

603
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: to you know, have your arm like this? Like because

604
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:26,960
Speaker 1: he was so young and innocent and kids at school

605
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,480
Speaker 1: would do there was already things said, you know, And

606
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: I was like, no, you know, I'm just me. I'm

607
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,560
Speaker 1: the same. I'm not going to change, but that are

608
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,400
Speaker 1: you going to change? Are you going to be different? Yeah?

609
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: I kind of just shut down and I left. And

610
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: I left not because I was three, but I left

611
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,240
Speaker 1: because I felt so much shame. And I got in

612
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: the car. I drove for a couple of hours. I

613
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: drove for quite a long time, felt like five minutes.

614
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: I just felt like I needed to get away from them.

615
00:27:52,640 --> 00:28:01,280
Speaker 1: I just I felt like I was contagious. And I sorry,

616
00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 1: I've not really spoke about this before, so to be sorry. Yeah.

617
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,919
Speaker 1: So I I felt like it would be better for

618
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: them to have a dad that was dead than a

619
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:18,359
Speaker 1: dad that was gay, and so I I brought some

620
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: pain colors. I brought a bottle of alcohol and I

621
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: checked myself into a hotel, and the whole time I

622
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 1: had a picture of the kids. It was like this

623
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 1: computer case it had and the smiling on it. They

624
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 1: wrote a message on it. It was silly, it was

625
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: just a little computer case, but I was just holding

626
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: it the whole time. I slept with it a lot

627
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: throughout that period, just I just wanted to protect them,

628
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,400
Speaker 1: you know. And I took the tablets and drank the alcoholic.

629
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:49,040
Speaker 1: I rank itate and I apologized for the pain that

630
00:28:49,040 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 1: I've caused, and I closed my eyes and I just thought,

631
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,959
Speaker 1: this is it. This is it. I won't hurt anyone anymore,

632
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: or you know, I won't bring any more pain, and

633
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 1: maybe I'll stop hurting too. The rest was a blur.

634
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:12,400
Speaker 1: I remember sirens and stuff, and I just then remember

635
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 1: being in hospital and I could hear voices, and I

636
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:21,239
Speaker 1: remember thinking, is this it? You know? Where am I?

637
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,680
Speaker 1: And something changed then, and it was really powerful because

638
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: I realized I couldn't hate myself anymore than I had,

639
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: and I couldn't try and stop being gay anymore. I've

640
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 1: done everything with my powers my whole life, creating a

641
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: different world that I thought everyone wanted me to be

642
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: and take all the boxes, but I knew I had

643
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: to reveal the truth. And so in that moment it

644
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:56,080
Speaker 1: was really quiet. It wasn't dramatic, but I just remember thinking, well,

645
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: what about if I just surrender? What about if I'm

646
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 1: just gay and I just be that? And I don't

647
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 1: really know where to begin with it, and I don't

648
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: know where it's going to lead me, but it has

649
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: to be better than what I've been doing. And in

650
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: that moment something changed. I decided to live. And I

651
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 1: think that's the moment where I went back to that

652
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,080
Speaker 1: eight year old boy standing at the window and allowed

653
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: himself to be seen. That was the beginning of it already.

654
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: So although it was one of the darkest nights of

655
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 1: my life, I think it was a turning point. And

656
00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 1: like I say, it's not something I take lightly. I

657
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: think it's not something I've ever spoken about. But I

658
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: hope other people in watching this can maybe feel heard

659
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: or seen and find the help they need, or even

660
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: maybe it's a parent that's struggling and understanding their child

661
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: to understand how dark it can be when you're left

662
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,000
Speaker 1: in silence and when you don't get to express who

663
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: you truly are, or even if it's the kid that

664
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 1: did the bullying at school, and see how painful it

665
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 1: can really be for someone.

666
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, Chris, thank you for sharing that, because it's.

667
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 1: I just didn't feel like I could write a book

668
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:14,600
Speaker 1: talking about my story. I think there's this perception of

669
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: me that people see on social media, and it looks

670
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: like my life together, it looks like I look pretty polished.

671
00:31:21,120 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: I think people tell me that, you know, I'm going

672
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: to work with amazing women, you know, and life looks glamorous,

673
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: and from the outside it probably looks like I've got

674
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: it all together. But there's a very different side. And

675
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: that's what I want to talk to people about, and

676
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: that's what I want to help people with. And it's

677
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: not just about my journey. It's about helping people realize theirs.

678
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I really appreciate you sharing it because we're

679
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 2: seeing males suicide rise.

680
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 1: Yeah.

681
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 2: We know that carrying around emotions like shame and guilt

682
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: for long periods of time is not healthy for someone,

683
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 2: even if they don't, you know, try to commit suicide.

684
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: And I think having people like yourself who've been there,

685
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,640
Speaker 2: who are open enough to share how you get there,

686
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 2: and it's needed right now. It's needed right now help

687
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: a lot of men. Yeah, a lot of people, but

688
00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: definitely a lot of men right now who need it

689
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 2: as well.

690
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: And I think also just like stereotypes and boxes that

691
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: we love to put people in, it's like you don't

692
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 1: have to fit. Particularly I'm old. I think you are

693
00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: who you are and you should have time and space

694
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 1: to develop that and what it is. And I'm someone

695
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: that spent my life trying to avoid that, and then

696
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: I had to do the really painful part of them

697
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: picking it and finding out what I'd created for everyone

698
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: else and what was truly me. When I did that,

699
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: there was a piece to it.

700
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 2: Were you relieved when you were up in the hospital.

701
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I don't think I ever wanted to die.

702
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: I wanted to kill the thing that I felt that

703
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 1: was destructing my life and the thing that made me

704
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: feel different as a kid, the thing that made me

705
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: not blend in with all the other boys and girls,

706
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: like I wasn't like all the regular guys, and I

707
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: wanted to not be different. Now I love being different,

708
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: you know, as an adult now I've realized the beauty

709
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: and being different. It's so a special thing to be

710
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: able to have that talent to be different, to let

711
00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 1: it grow, and when it's not suppressed, my God, like

712
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:08,680
Speaker 1: the whole world can change. My whole whole world really

713
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: did change. And it can be such a beautiful thing.

714
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: And I'm not talking about success. I'm talking about inner happiness.

715
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of successful people out there

716
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 1: and they're not happy. You know a lot of people

717
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: some unsuccessful people and they're not happy. I think true

718
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: happiness on the inside is really I don't know, it's

719
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: a really powerful tool.

720
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:29,200
Speaker 2: How did your family react to obviously come into the hospital?

721
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,040
Speaker 2: The kids like now, it was almost like there was

722
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 2: in that time the first shock that you're gay, and

723
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 2: then there's this shock of nearly losing you or being

724
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: a critical situation. How did you how did Katie, the

725
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:43,959
Speaker 2: kids and family?

726
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:45,960
Speaker 1: Really Yeah, I think there was really everyone understanding. I

727
00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: don't think anyone really knew. I think everyone was just

728
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 1: trying to get through it because everyone's trying to process

729
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,040
Speaker 1: it themselves. I think everyone had questions and everyone's like,

730
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: well did he always know? And like was that my fault?

731
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: And did I say something when he was a kid,

732
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 1: and when I told him about like gay men and

733
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: sexualiy and I think a lot of people were questioning,

734
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: I don't know, did they know, did they see something?

735
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:07,320
Speaker 1: And I think everyone was just trying to process something.

736
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: It didn't really matter to me in terms of like

737
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: that was the time I came back to myself. So

738
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,359
Speaker 1: there was there was a change in my brain where

739
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: I really just was like, I'm going to allow myself

740
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 1: to be and I'm going to be respectable of everyone else,

741
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: and I'm going to be supportive because it's just who

742
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: I am. But I'm going to be, you know, I'm

743
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 1: going to be I'm going to allow Chris to be

744
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: and I'm a gay man and that's it.

745
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 2: And I imagine at that time the shame that had

746
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: been hanging over obviously the kids went back to school,

747
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 2: they were now hearing the same stuff. It's almost like

748
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 2: you said, everyone wants the answer to the secret. Now

749
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 2: the secret's out totally.

750
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: People love a secret. Yeah, people love gossip. You know,

751
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: I get it, like we all do it. Everyone loves like,

752
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:48,399
Speaker 1: oh yeah, you know. But I think once the secret's out,

753
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: people are like, oh, well, you know, it's just not

754
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: as exciting. It's all right, well.

755
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,919
Speaker 2: And felt that kind of able to move on from it.

756
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: Absolutely and listen, it wasn't an overnight sense it was,

757
00:34:58,160 --> 00:34:59,759
Speaker 1: it was just a mental change for me. I still

758
00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 1: had to through the process.

759
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,479
Speaker 2: What was that process like, because it's like, like you said,

760
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 2: you bottled it up for that many years. It comes

761
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 2: out in this extremely dark way for you personally, shame, guilt.

762
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 2: Thankfully you're still alive. But what did that process actually

763
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:20,239
Speaker 2: look like? Because like you just said, and I don't

764
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 2: want anyone to hear this and go, yeah, oh wow,

765
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 2: one night just change, you know, Like I don't want

766
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: them to have that perspective either, because that isn't true

767
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 2: from the book. And I'm excited for people to read.

768
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 2: I'm encouraging people to read the book because I think

769
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 2: when they engage with it and you're sharing of it,

770
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,040
Speaker 2: they'll get the context that you won't be able to realize, Like,

771
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 2: this wasn't an overnight change, It wasn't a one night switch.

772
00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: But walk me through the process you had to go

773
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,800
Speaker 2: through over the next few months and years to rebuild,

774
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,400
Speaker 2: because you said you almost came home to yourself totally,

775
00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:57,359
Speaker 2: but then you had to build this new house.

776
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: Like anything starting anything new, the unknown, and so I

777
00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 1: think I took every day as it came, every hour

778
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: as it came. I've always been a big believer in

779
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,880
Speaker 1: therapy and he's so helpful to be able to and

780
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: I think it's I also think it's something that if

781
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 1: someone is struggling, that if you can, and you have

782
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: the resources too, you should use because I think it's

783
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: a really healthy way of being able to be and

784
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: really be in the moment and really feel things. And

785
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 1: I think working with therapists to try and understand, even

786
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: making sure my kids were okay with them seeing a

787
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: therapist and Kate, did you know. I think everyone was

788
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,840
Speaker 1: on their own journey. But personally, for me, it was

789
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: just taking every day as it came. And there were

790
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:39,719
Speaker 1: good days and there were bad days, and there were

791
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: days I still felt really shameful, and there were days

792
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: I didn't feel such shameful. But I think, as with anything,

793
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:47,320
Speaker 1: and when you're grieving something, and I really was grieving

794
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: a loss because I was grieving the loss of people

795
00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: I used to be and so in a way it

796
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:53,200
Speaker 1: was like a death because I was letting go of that,

797
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: I was letting go of this image that I created

798
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: this man that I created and what came with that

799
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: man family, And so then I had to you don't

800
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 1: have it all figured out. I'll be honest with you, though, Jay,

801
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: I still don't have it all figured out. I wake

802
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: up every day and I'm still figuring out I think

803
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 1: as humans we are. I'm grateful for that because that

804
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 1: means I'm always learning and I'm always growing. And if

805
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 1: I'm growing and that that makes me feel happy because

806
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 1: I'm alive. Yeah, you know, no one ever has it

807
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: all figured out?

808
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 2: Me too, I fully agree, I don't.

809
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:21,800
Speaker 1: I mean people think because you've got a book, or

810
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: because you've had some successful work, or you know, you

811
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: got it all figured out. No one's got it all

812
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,239
Speaker 1: figured out. But I think for me, I've always been

813
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:35,320
Speaker 1: really interested in other people's journeys and inspiration and understanding

814
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 1: how someone else took on. And this in my journey

815
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:39,279
Speaker 1: is not for everyone. Everyone's different and everyone has their

816
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: own journey, but sometimes you can just take something from it.

817
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: And you know, for me, that's why I did the book,

818
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 1: because I was trying to help people come back to themselves.

819
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: And I don't think I can do that if I'm

820
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:54,640
Speaker 1: not telling them my story yeah, you know, to say

821
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 1: I had a really dark moment too. A lot of

822
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,359
Speaker 1: people have had dark moments too.

823
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's brave and important to share it. And

824
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,320
Speaker 2: that's one of the reasons why I've been talking about

825
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,840
Speaker 2: the difference between Western and Eastern ideologies, because in the

826
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 2: West you have this before and after, so it's like

827
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,160
Speaker 2: I used to be like this, Now I'm healed, i' fit,

828
00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 2: I'm amazing. And the reality is the Eastern worldview would

829
00:38:17,320 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 2: say everything's cyclical. You're always two steps forward, three steps back,

830
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 2: you're always maintaining, you're always sustaining. You don't just it's

831
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: almost like you don't just end up with a six pack.

832
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: It's like that's something that takes to work, and.

833
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 1: The next week, I'm like, what happened?

834
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's and that's something that's physical that you

835
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 2: can see and it's tangible, what to speak of emotional

836
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 2: grieving and growth, and so that idea of before and

837
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 2: after it doesn't really exist. It's like before what and

838
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 2: after what? The reality is you're constantly growing, each and

839
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 2: every one of us and me included too. I think

840
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 2: even with the work I do, I definitely carry that

841
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 2: baggage sometimes of people thinking I'm teaching from the place

842
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 2: of perfection, and it's like we're not trying to Yeah,

843
00:38:57,600 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 2: it's like, actually, I'm trying to do the opposite and

844
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 2: just trying to be a friend who's nudging you in

845
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,839
Speaker 2: the right direction. And by the way, I do this

846
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 2: as much for you as I do it for me,

847
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:08,439
Speaker 2: because the more I talk about these ideas, the more

848
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 2: and I'm sure you felt that with your book, the

849
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 2: more you're talking about these ideas, the more responsible you

850
00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:15,319
Speaker 2: feel to actually live them.

851
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 1: And honestly, I feel like if there was something like

852
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,120
Speaker 1: this when I was a kid, when I was an

853
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: eight year old kid or a twelve year old kid

854
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,760
Speaker 1: at school and I heard someone maybe talking about that experience,

855
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: probably could have saved me going in the direction I

856
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: did and made up a choice, you know, But that's life.

857
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 2: I'm doing some research for my new book right now,

858
00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 2: and I was researching the I was speaking to the

859
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,439
Speaker 2: head of suicide at Harvard and he told me two

860
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 2: things that stayed with me. One was that one of

861
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: his friends committed suicide even though he knew his friend

862
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,799
Speaker 2: was the head of suicide at Harvard and never told

863
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 2: him anything. And so just shows how hard it is

864
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,720
Speaker 2: to even talk about it with someone, even though your

865
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 2: friend is an expert, and so just because you're a

866
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 2: therapist or a coach or a guide or it's not

867
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 2: easy for people to open up about these things.

868
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: No, I've found it incredibly difficult to sort of just

869
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 1: talk about it. But I hope that in doing so

870
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: that it will help someone else. And it's not to

871
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 1: say any of the things I've done all right or wrong,

872
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: but it was my journey and it led me to

873
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: where I'm at now. And I think if you can

874
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,240
Speaker 1: take some of the shame away from people struggling in life,

875
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,800
Speaker 1: and you know, I think someone like me, where people

876
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: perceive me to have it all figured out, maybe to

877
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: know that they've not and there's been some really hard

878
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: times in my life enables people to be able to

879
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: talk about theirs too and feel free to be able

880
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: to express them at that and there isn't so much

881
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: shame around it.

882
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it doesn't make you weak, Yeah exactly. Yeah, it

883
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 2: doesn't make you weak that you're having a tough time

884
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 2: right now, or you're struggling to pay the bills, or

885
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: you're struggling to take care of the family you.

886
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: Love, and everyone's challenge is different, you know, and that's

887
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: the beautiful thing of life.

888
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:53,360
Speaker 2: Did any men come back from your childhood over time

889
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 2: that you feel reconcile their relationship with you or from

890
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 2: the bullies or whatever, bullies or even yeah, bulliese family,

891
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:06,880
Speaker 2: like anyone that you think was negligent maybe or unaware

892
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:08,960
Speaker 2: at that time. Did you ever have any good conversations

893
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 2: with any men as life went on?

894
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: My brother actually is actually recently. We were very different.

895
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:16,760
Speaker 1: He was in a very different place in his life

896
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:18,839
Speaker 1: and I was just a kid trying to grow up.

897
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 1: You know. He was a good ten years old on

898
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,239
Speaker 1: than maybe maybe twelve years he was twelve years older

899
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 1: than me. He actually met me in London. I was

900
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: there for some shoot and he said I wanted to

901
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: meet and I'm all right, well okay. So we met

902
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: and had dinner and he actually apologized and he sat

903
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: down and he said, you know, I was really shit

904
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: to you. I was really shitty, brother, and I don't

905
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,959
Speaker 1: think I realized how much pain you were in. And

906
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 1: I think he was in his own pain because everyone's

907
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: got their own journey. And you know, I found forgiveness

908
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 1: in that. I found forgiveness and it was actually really

909
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: really special. Like I say, that's what I mean. It

910
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,879
Speaker 1: wasn't an overnight thing. This is literally ten years later,

911
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 1: like my brother's apologizing. But I also I'm mature enough

912
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 1: and have done the work enough to recognize that he

913
00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:58,439
Speaker 1: was going for a difficult time. He used drugs and

914
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:00,920
Speaker 1: he was going for his own thing. But you know,

915
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: here's sort of acknowledgment of that still stopped me in

916
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: my tracks and was like, yeah, that was tough, but

917
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 1: I forgive you, and a forgiveness is also a beautiful thing.

918
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: And letting go and moving on. Yeah, I like me

919
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:14,800
Speaker 1: to move on. I like to go right through something

920
00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: and then let it go, and I think that's a

921
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: beautiful thing. It's brutal, it's really hard, so easy to avoid.

922
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: So many people avoid stuff, complete avoid and completely just

923
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: let's pretend it' snampling. But for me, what works is

924
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,400
Speaker 1: to really feel it and sit in it, because then

925
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:32,040
Speaker 1: I feel like I can let it go.

926
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it's really mature to have that worldview

927
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 2: of recognizing that everyone's going through their journey and their

928
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 2: pain at the same time as you are. Yeah, And

929
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 2: it's really hard to compare pains because you can't. They're

930
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 2: all so unique and everyone's valid. E's got their own journey.

931
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 2: But to accept that requires a lot of mature and depth.

932
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,560
Speaker 2: But first, here's a quick word from the brands that

933
00:42:55,640 --> 00:42:59,359
Speaker 2: support the show. All right, thank you to our sponsors.

934
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 2: Now let dive back in. How does it feel now

935
00:43:02,040 --> 00:43:04,920
Speaker 2: that you've said it out loud and talked about it?

936
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:07,520
Speaker 2: How does that feel in your chest? Hot?

937
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I probably you could tell as I

938
00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 1: was talking I was getting quite tight chest. If I

939
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: ever even really talked about it, my chest will get

940
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: very tight. I'm grateful for that. I hope I never

941
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 1: get used to it because it was a very extreme

942
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,160
Speaker 1: thing in my life and I'm an emotional guy. I

943
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,440
Speaker 1: love the people I love, but I've liked not to

944
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 1: feel shame anymore. And I think part of dealing with

945
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: shame is being able to talk about it, being my technology,

946
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: being able to look at it in the mirror. And

947
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: I felt like sharing that is empowering to me and

948
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: hopefully others. I feel lucky to be able to share

949
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 1: my journey with other people. Hopefully you know, someone finds

950
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: it interesting or can give them a different perspective on

951
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: their day and in their life. And I've done that

952
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: in like an outward sense of a visual with people

953
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,600
Speaker 1: know that with my job. But I think the internal

954
00:43:58,640 --> 00:44:02,040
Speaker 1: part is just really where it starts, because when you

955
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: marry those together, that's when you have your real power.

956
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 2: I mean, as we've been talking about this in this journey,

957
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 2: that none of us are perfect and it still shows up.

958
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 2: How does how does shame still show up in your

959
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 2: life today? Like how does it still have that stronghold

960
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:16,399
Speaker 2: in life?

961
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: I woke up this morning I cannot talk about that.

962
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:20,640
Speaker 1: I can't talk about that on the podcast, had this

963
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:22,520
Speaker 1: complete like panic, I woke up this one of and

964
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,839
Speaker 1: my god, I can't talk people think I'm crazy, Like

965
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:26,760
Speaker 1: that was a really dark time and it was a secret.

966
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: It's a secret. And then I had to stop myself

967
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: and I'm like, ah, it's a secret. It doesn't need

968
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,239
Speaker 1: to be I'm not that person anymore. No one is

969
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 1: the people that we were in that time. We've all

970
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 1: moved on and evolved and I'm in a better place

971
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: in my life now. And I think with wisdom comes

972
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:46,480
Speaker 1: you know, like you being able to educate people and

973
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: share people. That's like me in my head dressing, career, learning,

974
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,040
Speaker 1: all these amazing techniques giving them all to myself. And

975
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: everyone has said to me before, like you really want

976
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,080
Speaker 1: to share your techniques? People might copy you, and I'm like, god,

977
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: I hope they do. I hope they have great hair. Yeah,

978
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: everyone everyone deserves it. I think some new takes. I'm

979
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: onto the next thing. So yeah, I mean, look, we're

980
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: human beings. Like I said, none of us have it

981
00:45:05,480 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: figured out. But I also have great people around me

982
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: to be like Chris, remember you're helping others And I'm like, yeah,

983
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:11,759
Speaker 1: that's what I want to do.

984
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 2: You know, as your journey grew, did you find you

985
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 2: share these stories with clients and talk to people that

986
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 2: you were close to And no one.

987
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:21,080
Speaker 1: Really knows this about me too, So I think probably

988
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people might, you know, be like, okay,

989
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: I didn't know that part of you because, let's face it,

990
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:28,359
Speaker 1: in human interaction, most of the time, it's like, Hi,

991
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: hell are you look great? You know you can go

992
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: oh yeah, and then we move on. We don't always

993
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,520
Speaker 1: open up the blinds and you know, pull people in

994
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: because it's difficult to do. You know, even on social media,

995
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: people say to me, oh, you know you like you

996
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 1: have this Polish social media, you bring people in more.

997
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 1: It's difficult sometimes to do that when it's at a

998
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 1: camera in front of you, and I think I've always

999
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: been very one on one. That's what I do. But

1000
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:52,879
Speaker 1: that's why I wanted to package it up and put

1001
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: it into something that people could read and take in

1002
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: them themselves.

1003
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,399
Speaker 2: I want to know what happened because this was all

1004
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,920
Speaker 2: still while you were back home in England. Yeah, and

1005
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 2: so this isn't even the career journey that we see

1006
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 2: now that hadn't even begun then. Yeah, in terms of

1007
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 2: the public part of it. How soon after did you

1008
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,720
Speaker 2: end up moving to America and did everything shift?

1009
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:17,799
Speaker 1: I stayed in I moved to America when I was

1010
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: thirty one, so it was four years later. And during

1011
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: that time, I started to travel backwards and forwards. I

1012
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: was kind of commuting backwards and forwards. I started working

1013
00:46:26,680 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: with an artist and you know, they travel around. I

1014
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 1: was kind of doing different types of hairdressing work. I

1015
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: remember I got a call once I was in London

1016
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: and I had an email actually that came through and

1017
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,800
Speaker 1: it was from Jalo's team and I remember thinking, oh wow,

1018
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: but it was too much to kind of take in.

1019
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: I was like, it's like, are you available? You know,

1020
00:46:47,760 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: we wanted to see if Chris Appleton was available for

1021
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 1: a Vegas show and I was like, oh, it's interesting.

1022
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 1: And then I thought, well, how does Jalo know who

1023
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: I am? It was the beginning of social media and

1024
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 1: I was posting, not really know what I'm doing, but

1025
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: I was just posting all different hairstars I was doing,

1026
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: so I guess when I look back, my brand quite

1027
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 1: quickly was apparent. I was always changing up. I'm not

1028
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: your beachy wave kind of guy. I like to do

1029
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: a look, do the next one, move on, that's next.

1030
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:13,920
Speaker 1: I was very excited by hair and I was just

1031
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: posting all that, so I kind of felt what was cool?

1032
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: But I'm in England and that's Hollywood. I sart the

1033
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: land of dreams. You know, it's far, far, far away,

1034
00:47:24,520 --> 00:47:26,839
Speaker 1: and they're not going to fly me out, so all right,

1035
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: well I just left it and I thought, maybe this

1036
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: is just like a Maybe it's like a fake email.

1037
00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: You know, you get a lot of random emails, Hey

1038
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: is that madam? You've won ten? And I'm like, oh

1039
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: how about you know I haven't replied into them anymore,

1040
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: but for when I was younger I used to. So

1041
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,200
Speaker 1: I left it and a few months later I got

1042
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: another email. I thought, well, maybe this is a thing, maybe,

1043
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:47,080
Speaker 1: like maybe I could go to LA you know, it

1044
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,400
Speaker 1: seemed like the big shining star, and that's where a

1045
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: lot of stars are, and I loved the excitement. As

1046
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:56,400
Speaker 1: a kid, I was always really sort of mesmerized by

1047
00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: the power of transformation. Back then it was Madonna, you know,

1048
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: she would have a different look per album, and I

1049
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 1: always loved how each look. Really it started a trend.

1050
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,120
Speaker 1: People would start to wear it in the streets and

1051
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 1: it was like a whole vibe. So for well, maybe

1052
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: I'll go to LA. So I pretty much decided to

1053
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:16,280
Speaker 1: do it. I packed two suitcases. I had a whole

1054
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 1: apartment in London that I'd worked very hard for, small,

1055
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: basement one, but nevertheless it was mine. And I packed

1056
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: two suitcases and I moved moved to LA.

1057
00:48:26,040 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 2: And without even a plan.

1058
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,919
Speaker 1: No, you have a dream, No nothing, I had a dream.

1059
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,120
Speaker 2: Man was I was like, how many followers did you

1060
00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 2: have this time?

1061
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: Four or five thousands?

1062
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 2: Right?

1063
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: Right?

1064
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 2: Oh wow?

1065
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, really early days. But I did have a

1066
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:43,359
Speaker 1: hope and I for what's the worst that could happen.

1067
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:45,720
Speaker 1: I'll come back if it doesn't work. So I remember

1068
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: I moved to America for the first three or four months,

1069
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 1: sending to do anything. I'd spent all my money. ELI

1070
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: is really expensive, and I remember thinking I'm gonna have

1071
00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:56,280
Speaker 1: to go back home. And then I got a call

1072
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: to do Christinea Wherever's hair on the Voice, which I

1073
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 1: speak a little bit about in the book. It was

1074
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,799
Speaker 1: an experience that didn't go so well. It was like

1075
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: my one opportunity and it seemed to go very wrong.

1076
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 2: You felt you didn't it went wrong to go right.

1077
00:49:09,719 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: I mean, I was such an excited guy. I'm like, Okay,

1078
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to do this. I'm going to do my thing.

1079
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 1: It's the Voice. Everyone watches the Voice, but we have

1080
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: to understand this. When you live in the UK, it's

1081
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 1: like this many people see it. When you live in

1082
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: the US, it's like the world sees it. It just it

1083
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 1: was bigger. Everything was bigger. And I remember going to

1084
00:49:28,239 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 1: the Voice and there was like three hours to do

1085
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 1: glam and the makeup artist went in inside the trailer

1086
00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: and I just sat outside. So I was like, okay,

1087
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 1: I'll just wait for a bit, and then I went

1088
00:49:37,560 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: by and I was like, well, maybe she don't need

1089
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:42,920
Speaker 1: too much done to a hair, you know. And then

1090
00:49:42,920 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 1: two hours went by and I'm like, well maybe, like

1091
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 1: the hair's probably done and I'm just going to be

1092
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:50,799
Speaker 1: finessing it, you know. And then the last twenty minutes

1093
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: before the live show, I'm like, I mean, so I'll

1094
00:49:54,960 --> 00:49:58,000
Speaker 1: just go home, and they called me in, so I thought, well,

1095
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: you know, she definitely got a hair done. It's gonna

1096
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 1: be good. Right twenty minutes, I mean, what else can

1097
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:06,919
Speaker 1: it be? So I'll go in. And it wasn't good.

1098
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,279
Speaker 1: It wasn't done. It was ready to be done. So

1099
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: she's like, what do you want to do? And I

1100
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: was like, well, or what I really want to do?

1101
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,799
Speaker 1: It's two hours to do? Yeah, but whatever we got

1102
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:16,600
Speaker 1: to waiting for.

1103
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 2: You to go in or no. No, I think she was.

1104
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:21,399
Speaker 1: Just like doing make up, probably got chatting and there

1105
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,680
Speaker 1: was no will intention really, it was just like whatever,

1106
00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:25,839
Speaker 1: you know, like you're in the chair every day, you know.

1107
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: And then I went in, so I did that thing

1108
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,600
Speaker 1: the headressers do where you stop moving the hair around

1109
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: if you ever sat in a chair, and the headress

1110
00:50:32,080 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: was kind of like, we're just kind of touching it. Yeah,

1111
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,239
Speaker 1: it means we don't know what we're doing it just

1112
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 1: we're kind of just like hoping something's going to happen.

1113
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: So I said to her, like, would you if you

1114
00:50:41,880 --> 00:50:43,479
Speaker 1: ever try to wis? I thought that would be great

1115
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 1: because it'd be fast, and she's like, I don't like

1116
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:51,120
Speaker 1: wigs somehow, of course you don't like wiggs. And then

1117
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: I really lost myself and I was like, why would

1118
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 1: you like anything I've got to do? Like you see me,

1119
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 1: you see the little boy and standing in the wind,

1120
00:50:57,880 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 1: you see little Chris, Like, what am I doing it?

1121
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:02,880
Speaker 1: I'm a joke. I'm a joke, Like why I am it?

1122
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 1: And I felt like that shame again and I felt small,

1123
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,520
Speaker 1: so small, and I just had this moment. It was

1124
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: actually the mother of my kids, Kate, who we are

1125
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 1: still best friends and she has always been so supportive

1126
00:51:13,480 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: throughout my career. I called her on the way and

1127
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 1: she said to me, look, Chris, if you don't make

1128
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 1: this work, you're going to have to come home because

1129
00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:20,640
Speaker 1: I have responsibility and my dad, I have the kids,

1130
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 1: you know, And I remember you think if I don't

1131
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: make this work, we I have to go home. So

1132
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:25,960
Speaker 1: I thought you know what, Let me do me, and

1133
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 1: if she doesn't like it, that's cool. We're just not

1134
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 1: a match. But if I don't do me and do everything,

1135
00:51:30,480 --> 00:51:32,879
Speaker 1: I know, I'm thirty one, I've spent my whole life

1136
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: learning this craft. If I don't do me and walk away,

1137
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 1: I'll always kick myself. So I said, you know what,

1138
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:39,680
Speaker 1: you've never tried more weeks, Let's try it. She was like,

1139
00:51:39,680 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: all right. So I put it on the head and

1140
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: she was like, oh, and I'd finessed wigs. I got

1141
00:51:43,640 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 1: really good at them because I used to work with

1142
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:47,759
Speaker 1: cancer patients and and all these little tricks I kind

1143
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 1: of like from one area of my life then turned

1144
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:53,080
Speaker 1: into making me good at it for stars. And so

1145
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,680
Speaker 1: I put it on ahead and there was no time.

1146
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: She was like, I like it. So I put it on.

1147
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: It was like no time. She literally got up and

1148
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,799
Speaker 1: run off onto the onto the show, and then she's

1149
00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:03,399
Speaker 1: on live TV. And you know, that was the time

1150
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 1: of social media. Because I was also very nervous because well,

1151
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,000
Speaker 1: everyone's going to have an opinion on this, and when

1152
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: it's good, it's great, and when it's bad it's not.

1153
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 1: When it's bad, you'll know about it.

1154
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:13,120
Speaker 2: It's good, it's okay.

1155
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:19,480
Speaker 1: Bad, it's bad. So I remember she came off the

1156
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: stage and she it was like a little break and

1157
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:23,759
Speaker 1: she was talking to someone like this, and she looked

1158
00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: over at me and she went, everyone likes your wig,

1159
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: and then just carried on talking. And in that moment

1160
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,480
Speaker 1: I knew that and it was great, Like she looked great,

1161
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:34,280
Speaker 1: and then we worked together. You know, at the beginning,

1162
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: you look right. I mean, I don't want people to

1163
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: think I am being arrogant in telling that story, because no,

1164
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 1: I'd put so much of my whole life into my craft.

1165
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: I wanted to learn it inside out, upside down, left

1166
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,080
Speaker 1: to right. I knew every aspect of her for me

1167
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: to be able to be able to stand there and

1168
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,839
Speaker 1: know that it was the right thing to do. I

1169
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,040
Speaker 1: wasn't being pushy or anything. I just knew that this

1170
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: was right. And therefore, if it didn't work, it's like

1171
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: a relationship. If it didn't work, it's okay. Yeah I tried.

1172
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 1: If I don't do what I know to be true

1173
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: and good, then I'll always kick myself and I'd hate that.

1174
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:11,480
Speaker 1: And I think part of my coming out story, and

1175
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:13,960
Speaker 1: you know, seeing my full self again was not ever

1176
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 1: letting myself not be seen, and you know, I wanted

1177
00:53:16,719 --> 00:53:19,439
Speaker 1: to present as I was and the knowledge I knew

1178
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:21,640
Speaker 1: and that was it was a success story in it,

1179
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: and that was the beginning of my career in Hollywood.

1180
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:26,319
Speaker 1: It just rolled on once people saw her hair because

1181
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 1: we did this kind of really icy wig and then

1182
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:30,360
Speaker 1: I did these hoops in the hair. And then I

1183
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: started working with Ariana and then Kim and then Adele

1184
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: and it was Jlow and it just Katie Perry just

1185
00:53:36,480 --> 00:53:39,880
Speaker 1: just evolved. You know, who's doing that? That's cool. You

1186
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: know pop stars or artis started to change their hair up,

1187
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:45,680
Speaker 1: so it's like, okay, so it's very fast. That was

1188
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: very fast, but I was very prepared because I'd spent

1189
00:53:47,719 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: thirty one years in my life learning it.

1190
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 2: It's really interesting because I'll tell you later I have

1191
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 2: a very similar story of because when I first moved

1192
00:53:54,560 --> 00:53:56,319
Speaker 2: out here was everyone's asking me to teach them how

1193
00:53:56,320 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 2: to meditate or yeah, coaching them or guiding them spiritually

1194
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 2: their life. And so I was meeting a lot of

1195
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 2: people and our work, finally enough is similar, even though

1196
00:54:04,440 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 2: it's very different. It's very intimate, it's very one on one,

1197
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,960
Speaker 2: it's really present in someone's life, and I had a

1198
00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,520
Speaker 2: similar experience. But the thing I found as well was

1199
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 2: if I was trying to be what they wanted me

1200
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:20,120
Speaker 2: to be, I couldn't be that. I just knew how

1201
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 2: to do what I do, and that's really hard. When

1202
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:27,200
Speaker 2: you feel inexperienced, you feel like an impostor, and you

1203
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 2: feel like you don't belong here, which is how I felt.

1204
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: Too, tellally, which we all feel, which we all feel

1205
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:33,919
Speaker 1: when you have success or whatever.

1206
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:36,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you come and you're like, oh no, but

1207
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 2: this is a bigger world. It's a different world, and

1208
00:54:38,480 --> 00:54:40,800
Speaker 2: it's different iballs, and then you're just like, no, actually,

1209
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,080
Speaker 2: I have to trust the work that I've done up

1210
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 2: until now. And that doesn't make me egotistic totally. It

1211
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 2: just makes me experienced. I've got to trust the experience

1212
00:54:48,719 --> 00:54:51,239
Speaker 2: I have, and most importantly, it makes me me So

1213
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,880
Speaker 2: I love that message from your experience there, which was

1214
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,120
Speaker 2: if you hadn't done the WIG, it would have just

1215
00:54:57,160 --> 00:54:59,560
Speaker 2: looked terrible because you wouldn't have been able to do

1216
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 2: anything in that time, and so you had to trust

1217
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 2: your instincts, which was my experiences. Let's go with the weik. Yeah, totally,

1218
00:55:06,160 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 2: that's amazing, and then obviously you became such good friends

1219
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 2: with Kim and everyone. It's like, what's been your favorite

1220
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 2: part about building these amazing relationships because the work is

1221
00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 2: so intimate, it is so connected to them.

1222
00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:20,279
Speaker 1: I'm so grateful to work with everyone who worked, but

1223
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 1: I was just feel very lucky to work in their

1224
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 1: presence because they're amazing on what they do. You know,

1225
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 1: they're an artist in their own and to be a

1226
00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 1: part of it, I just feel very grateful. And you know,

1227
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:29,840
Speaker 1: I Kim up become very good friends. We have so

1228
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: much respect. But her to see her at close, to

1229
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:34,879
Speaker 1: see you know, the world sees one thing. They see

1230
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,359
Speaker 1: Kim Kardashian. I don't really see her like I see

1231
00:55:37,360 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: as Kim, you know, and she is a mother, an

1232
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,239
Speaker 1: amazing mother. She is a businesswoman, you know, to see

1233
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: what she did with Skims and build that, and just

1234
00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:49,120
Speaker 1: to see how she is with everyone that walks in

1235
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:52,400
Speaker 1: the door. You know, she speaks to whether it's an assistant,

1236
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:56,000
Speaker 1: a lighting person, what she's says hello to everyone, introduces herself.

1237
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,280
Speaker 1: She doesn't have to, but she's just a great person.

1238
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,120
Speaker 1: She's well closed, a really really great person. And so

1239
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:04,800
Speaker 1: I think organically you spend so much time together with

1240
00:56:04,840 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: the people you work with, obviously there's a friendship there.

1241
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: And I'm just incredibly grateful I've got to work with

1242
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:11,719
Speaker 1: the people like I do, and you know, see them

1243
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 1: in the light I do, because I guess not everyone does,

1244
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 1: because again, we all make assumptions. Everyone's just seen a

1245
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: vision or an image or a quick clip on TV

1246
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 1: or a clip here on social media, and we all

1247
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,640
Speaker 1: make assumptions. It's what we do. It's okay. But I

1248
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:24,800
Speaker 1: just feel grateful to have seen a side that maybe

1249
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:25,680
Speaker 1: others haven't.

1250
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,680
Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm sure you lot what are people like? Really?

1251
00:56:29,680 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 2: I'm sure you get that all the time from people

1252
00:56:32,120 --> 00:56:33,760
Speaker 2: work at home as were like, oh, what do people

1253
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:35,960
Speaker 2: really like behind the camera? And it's I always find

1254
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,360
Speaker 2: it so refreshing to be able to be like, you know,

1255
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 2: a lot of the people you watch, they're actually really

1256
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:46,319
Speaker 2: wonderful and nice. There isn't some big conspiracy, you know,

1257
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 2: it's just they're just wonderful humans who are really nice

1258
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:51,439
Speaker 2: and they're really great at what they do. What they do, yeah,

1259
00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 2: what they do, and yeah they treat everyone with respect.

1260
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 2: It and it isn't as juicy as you want it

1261
00:56:57,320 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 2: to be No. Yeah, so with your journey with that piece,

1262
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 2: it feels like, I mean you said it earlier, were like,

1263
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:07,439
Speaker 2: it only gets harder. Yeah, And it feels like even

1264
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 2: though now you were having this success and that was

1265
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 2: moving fast and you have become the person you've become

1266
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,720
Speaker 2: where you are the go to person in the city

1267
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 2: but across the states for all of these people to

1268
00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 2: turn to whether the musicians, models, talent. And then I think,

1269
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:25,800
Speaker 2: now it's been like just a year from your divorce again,

1270
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,960
Speaker 2: and that was with a very public relationship. Was that

1271
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:31,600
Speaker 2: the first time you'd had a public relationship.

1272
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: It was definitely the first time that I had experienced

1273
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: that magnitude of people being so invested in my private life.

1274
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 2: What was it like having such a public romantic relationship

1275
00:57:46,960 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 2: as someone who for years before that, let alone having

1276
00:57:52,680 --> 00:57:56,360
Speaker 2: a public relationship, you weren't even in a relationship.

1277
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 1: With a man. This is the first time I've ever

1278
00:57:57,960 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: spoke about this, And I think people have this perception

1279
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: from social media, probably like I said that I have

1280
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:09,000
Speaker 1: it together. I work with these amazing people. Life looks glamorous,

1281
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,520
Speaker 1: so from the outside it probably looks like I got

1282
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 1: it all together. But the truth is especially during that

1283
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: time I was going through a lot of private pain

1284
00:58:18,440 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: and then you go with all the online speculation part

1285
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: people say things about you. There's things in the tabloid

1286
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 1: and people that have an opinion on your life, and

1287
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,040
Speaker 1: that can be incredibly intense, especially when you're just trying

1288
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:36,439
Speaker 1: to deal with things. I think for me, what really

1289
00:58:36,520 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: helped me was not being okay. And you know, I've

1290
00:58:41,200 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: always believed in therapy, and I work with a therapist

1291
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,280
Speaker 1: to really sit in my feelings and really go through

1292
00:58:47,320 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: them and understand how I felt. And that is really

1293
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 1: brutal to go through it. But for me coming out

1294
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,280
Speaker 1: the other side, there's a part of you that feels

1295
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: like you can you know, reflect on it and move on.

1296
00:59:00,000 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 1: The biggest lessons I learned is finding alignment. From what

1297
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:08,080
Speaker 1: I do is all about visual you know, It's what

1298
00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 1: I've done my whole life, and even what people see

1299
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: of me is this visual representation of Chris Heppleton. But

1300
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 1: I think for me there was a real peace in

1301
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 1: finding alignment and in a peace on the inside. And

1302
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 1: like I said, that wasn't an easy process. But I

1303
00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:25,360
Speaker 1: think when you align those two, when you genuinely feel

1304
00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 1: good on the inside. I think that's when your real

1305
00:59:27,760 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: power comes in place. And I think, you know, just

1306
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:34,880
Speaker 1: because there's a headline about you doesn't necessarily mean you

1307
00:59:34,920 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: have to go and explain to everyone about your life.

1308
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:41,040
Speaker 1: And I think for me, I really wanted to deal

1309
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: with it with peace and deal with it my way.

1310
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: You know, there's an interesting thing about living in the

1311
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,800
Speaker 1: public hige is people have an opinion, and that's okay.

1312
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: I don't mind people saying good and bad things, because

1313
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: you put yourself out into the arena, you're going to

1314
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,040
Speaker 1: get that. But I think for me, as a dad,

1315
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: I wanted to protect my kids. I always want to

1316
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: do that, and I'm very aware any relationship I go

1317
01:00:00,320 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: into there will be a conversation around that. And so

1318
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:05,080
Speaker 1: I think for me, making sure that I had that

1319
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: internal alignment, which I never had my whole life. Finding

1320
01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,640
Speaker 1: that and being comfortable with that and finding happiness was

1321
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:15,680
Speaker 1: a really beautiful thing. And you know, you can love

1322
01:00:15,720 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 1: someone and then not be a forever happy ending. I

1323
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 1: think you learned so much from it. I think any

1324
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: relationship I've ever gone into, I've learned so much from it.

1325
01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:27,920
Speaker 1: I've learned what's important to me in terms of boundaries

1326
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 1: in terms of how I want to be loved, how

1327
01:00:31,000 --> 01:00:33,280
Speaker 1: I want to love And that's a beautiful thing because

1328
01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: it means you're always growing and evolving.

1329
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 2: Before we dive into the next moment, let's hear from

1330
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:42,680
Speaker 2: our sponsors, thanks for taking a moment for that. Now

1331
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,840
Speaker 2: back to the discussion. It was you far for a divorce, right,

1332
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 2: like you were the one who yeah, ended it.

1333
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1334
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 2: When you look at that in the perspective of the

1335
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 2: whole conversation that we've had and everything you've been through,

1336
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 2: I can imagine that's not easy.

1337
01:00:55,320 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: Again, No, but I think again, like, it doesn't mean

1338
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: you don't learn something about yourself. And just because it's

1339
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: not forever doesn't mean it didn't mean something. And it's

1340
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 1: a bit like going to buy a house, Like you know,

1341
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,800
Speaker 1: we could go and look at houses. I particularly like bright,

1342
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:14,800
Speaker 1: lots of space. I don't like confined and dark. Some

1343
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:19,000
Speaker 1: people do, and that's okay, just not aligned. And I

1344
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: think one of the biggest things I realized about any

1345
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:25,160
Speaker 1: relationship I've been into or go into is the importance

1346
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:27,240
Speaker 1: of alignment. And I think for a long time I

1347
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 1: didn't have that, and I think finding that within myself

1348
01:01:30,080 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 1: has been special. It's about growth. And like I say,

1349
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:36,000
Speaker 1: as long as I'm growing and evolving, then I'm alive

1350
01:01:36,040 --> 01:01:37,080
Speaker 1: and that feels great.

1351
01:01:37,240 --> 01:01:39,760
Speaker 2: Why do you think you didn't have that alignment? Maybe

1352
01:01:39,760 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 2: when you met and because it moved fast, right.

1353
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: Look, moving fast doesn't always mean you're reckless. I think

1354
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 1: sometimes it means you're hopeful. And I think any relationship

1355
01:01:49,080 --> 01:01:51,640
Speaker 1: ever been into, I've gone into with an open heart

1356
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 1: and I have no regrets about that. I think we

1357
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,520
Speaker 1: shame people too much for leading with an open heart.

1358
01:01:57,920 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: And I think the sad part about that, especially when

1359
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 1: it does and work out, And I think the sad

1360
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,280
Speaker 1: part about that is you can learn to retract and

1361
01:02:04,280 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: protect yourself. But I would rather love and fall than

1362
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: to never feel anything at all. And I think I'd

1363
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:16,560
Speaker 1: rather experience something and feel alive than to never put

1364
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 1: my thought out in the water. And I think as

1365
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: long as you're growing and evolving from it and things

1366
01:02:24,200 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: don't always go to plan, I think as long as

1367
01:02:26,720 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: you go through it and go through the process of healing,

1368
01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:32,080
Speaker 1: I think that's really important, then I think you're doing

1369
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: all you can. I don't know. I feel like I

1370
01:02:34,280 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 1: felt like a responsibility to just really look at everything

1371
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: as any situation I've ever been in, I've always tried

1372
01:02:39,120 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 1: to look back and reflect of, like, do I feel

1373
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,120
Speaker 1: like I'm happy with where I'm in my life, how

1374
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 1: it is visually and how I feel internally, And you know,

1375
01:02:47,440 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: if not being able to sit in that and sit

1376
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: with it and process it and go through it has

1377
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:55,760
Speaker 1: been a really magical part because it doesn't really matter

1378
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 1: what anyone else says. I know my truth and I

1379
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:01,960
Speaker 1: feel happy. I really value the people that are in

1380
01:03:02,000 --> 01:03:04,640
Speaker 1: my life. I have an amazing family. I've worked really

1381
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,320
Speaker 1: half of my career. I love the people I've supported family,

1382
01:03:07,360 --> 01:03:09,880
Speaker 1: and I'm really grateful for that. Yeah, and ending doesn't

1383
01:03:09,920 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 1: mean it didn't mean anything. It just means it ended.

1384
01:03:13,880 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 1: You know, as many relationships have been through my life, friendships, relationships,

1385
01:03:19,040 --> 01:03:22,520
Speaker 1: they've ended, and I've tried to learn something each time

1386
01:03:22,560 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 1: from that experience.

1387
01:03:23,760 --> 01:03:27,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I really appreciate your take on not closing off

1388
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:31,680
Speaker 2: and not kind of building a wall to And you

1389
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:35,080
Speaker 2: are right. We do make people feel bad for falling

1390
01:03:35,120 --> 01:03:38,080
Speaker 2: in love or moving fast or whatever it may be.

1391
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 2: And I think also coming from a South Asian culture,

1392
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:47,160
Speaker 2: I've seen the dangers of demonizing divorce yeah, and looking

1393
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 2: at divorce as a failure or a negative thing, when

1394
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:53,720
Speaker 2: actually I look at my community and I'm like, I

1395
01:03:53,840 --> 01:03:58,080
Speaker 2: wish this person would get divorced, and this person because

1396
01:03:58,120 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 2: you know the truth and when they open up to you,

1397
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:04,200
Speaker 2: and so it's almost it's interesting. We've made people feel

1398
01:04:04,200 --> 01:04:09,480
Speaker 2: bad for maybe opening their heart, and we also made

1399
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 2: people feel bad for it.

1400
01:04:10,520 --> 01:04:12,919
Speaker 1: And I get it. I get it. And people love

1401
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 1: to say like, oh, I knew you know, that would

1402
01:04:15,240 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 1: happen and that wouldn't last. But I don't know. It's

1403
01:04:17,920 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: just who I am. I go in wholeheartedly into every friendship,

1404
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:26,640
Speaker 1: every relationship, you know, every family member, and I've learned

1405
01:04:26,920 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: to protect myself and also honor myself. Like I say,

1406
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:33,320
Speaker 1: I keep mentioning in alignment, but it really is a

1407
01:04:33,400 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 1: key part of like my healing is to be able

1408
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,640
Speaker 1: to leave a situation when it's not right anymore.

1409
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:41,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, why did it feel again important for you to

1410
01:04:41,800 --> 01:04:44,320
Speaker 2: talk about it now as part of this journey with

1411
01:04:44,360 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 2: the book?

1412
01:04:44,680 --> 01:04:47,120
Speaker 1: I think it's just always I think every part of

1413
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,959
Speaker 1: my life, if there's something in the tabloid or people

1414
01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:52,640
Speaker 1: want to know, I think I would like to sort

1415
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:57,960
Speaker 1: of share my experience. So people can relate and maybe

1416
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:00,840
Speaker 1: not feel so alone. My biggest guy is to make

1417
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:03,040
Speaker 1: people realize that it doesn't matter where you came from.

1418
01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what the situation was that you got

1419
01:05:04,920 --> 01:05:08,040
Speaker 1: stuck in. You can move on, you can evolve your life,

1420
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:10,000
Speaker 1: and you can have your come back at any age.

1421
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: At any age, it's never too late. So many people

1422
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: think it's too late. They're not twenty. They think they're done.

1423
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 1: And I think, I don't know. Some things are for

1424
01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:21,840
Speaker 1: a season and some things are forever. Like that's life.

1425
01:05:22,320 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: Life is life. Love is messy. People are complicated. We

1426
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: all bring our old trauma and baggage into a relationship,

1427
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 1: whether you're willing to admit it or not. And like

1428
01:05:36,120 --> 01:05:39,280
Speaker 1: I said, that's just life. It's about alignment. And if

1429
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 1: something's not aligned, it's okay, whether it's a relationship or

1430
01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,040
Speaker 1: a friendship or a marriage or whatever it is in

1431
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 1: your life. I think so many people get so fearful

1432
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:52,120
Speaker 1: of not moving on or change. Change is so scary

1433
01:05:52,160 --> 01:05:55,439
Speaker 1: to people. Change, I know, by just people changing their hair,

1434
01:05:55,520 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 1: how terrified that be? Well, people are going to recognize

1435
01:05:58,400 --> 01:05:59,919
Speaker 1: me or people are going to I'm like, yeah, that's great,

1436
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:02,760
Speaker 1: see a new you see, actually you that this is

1437
01:06:02,760 --> 01:06:04,560
Speaker 1: actually going to be great for you. You have a

1438
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:06,800
Speaker 1: whole new look. You could have been stuck with that

1439
01:06:06,840 --> 01:06:08,520
Speaker 1: old hairstyle that you showed me a minute ago, a

1440
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:13,680
Speaker 1: whole life, you know what I mean. You know, it's

1441
01:06:13,760 --> 01:06:16,280
Speaker 1: like if you don't know, you don't know at the time,

1442
01:06:16,320 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 1: I bet you thought you were killing that. This is

1443
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:21,400
Speaker 1: straightened my hair? Why you straight hair? Because someone told

1444
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,960
Speaker 1: me to have beautiful natural texture? Someone bringing you back

1445
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,480
Speaker 1: to that, like, I don't know. It kind of helps

1446
01:06:27,520 --> 01:06:29,960
Speaker 1: you form who you are, whereas maybe you canform to

1447
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:33,200
Speaker 1: society because society said you should straighten curly hair. I

1448
01:06:33,200 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: don't know what the answer. We're all we're all conditioned

1449
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:39,080
Speaker 1: to that, following the lead and following the pack, and

1450
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:42,480
Speaker 1: you don't always have to do that. To not do that,

1451
01:06:42,520 --> 01:06:45,720
Speaker 1: you have to have some balls. And like I think

1452
01:06:45,960 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 1: part of finding that strength is to be able to

1453
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:52,920
Speaker 1: sit with yourself. And I can honestly say any situation

1454
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 1: now that I'm ever in, I can sit with myself

1455
01:06:55,600 --> 01:06:58,040
Speaker 1: and I can process it. And it's not always easy.

1456
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:01,120
Speaker 1: In fact, doing the work is brutal. It's never easy.

1457
01:07:01,800 --> 01:07:03,320
Speaker 1: But the last thing I feel like I need to

1458
01:07:03,320 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 1: do is tell everyone because it's my journey, it's my story,

1459
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 1: and you know, when I'm ready, which is why I'm

1460
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:10,640
Speaker 1: doing the book now you know you can share it.

1461
01:07:11,120 --> 01:07:14,320
Speaker 2: How did you protect your peace at the time, because

1462
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:17,800
Speaker 2: I imagine it's not easy when you're going through it. Headlines,

1463
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 2: whether they whether you take them seriously or react or not,

1464
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 2: they still hurt and everyone's asking, you know, I know

1465
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 2: what it feels like where you're Sometimes I find that

1466
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:29,040
Speaker 2: when you also have family that's not connected to the industry,

1467
01:07:29,240 --> 01:07:31,040
Speaker 2: I'll always get a load of messages as well from

1468
01:07:31,080 --> 01:07:33,720
Speaker 2: back home from friends and family. Again, I just saw

1469
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:35,840
Speaker 2: this thing about you know whatever. I just saw that,

1470
01:07:35,920 --> 01:07:37,920
Speaker 2: and I'm like, guys, like I'm dealing with it, like

1471
01:07:38,000 --> 01:07:40,560
Speaker 2: you know, this is normal in my world now, yeah,

1472
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,120
Speaker 2: but it's not normal for them, and I can find

1473
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,200
Speaker 2: that that's hard sometimes. Was there any was there any

1474
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 2: of that feeling of that kid looking out the window,

1475
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:50,640
Speaker 2: like was that any of that coming back through this

1476
01:07:50,760 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 2: as well? Or how did you protect your piece at

1477
01:07:53,200 --> 01:07:53,560
Speaker 2: that time?

1478
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,200
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of private pain. Like I say,

1479
01:07:56,600 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: no one is immune to it, but I think for

1480
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 1: me working with like have an amazing therapist I've always

1481
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:05,360
Speaker 1: worked with, and I am so profound the same person

1482
01:08:05,360 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 1: that you worked with the whole time. Yeah, wow for

1483
01:08:07,880 --> 01:08:10,440
Speaker 1: how many years? Maybe the life was since I moved

1484
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:12,440
Speaker 1: to America, So nine years.

1485
01:08:12,440 --> 01:08:14,120
Speaker 2: Wow, that's impressive.

1486
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:17,479
Speaker 1: And for me, therapy just enables you to like sit

1487
01:08:17,520 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 1: in it. Therapy really helps you to do that, and

1488
01:08:21,080 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: therapy really helps you to move on and let go

1489
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,559
Speaker 1: of situations that you know no longer serve you.

1490
01:08:27,640 --> 01:08:31,599
Speaker 2: So it's been around two years. Now, where's your headspace

1491
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 2: at now?

1492
01:08:32,320 --> 01:08:35,800
Speaker 1: I think I just feel grateful to have had the

1493
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: experiences I've had in my life and to have the

1494
01:08:39,120 --> 01:08:41,280
Speaker 1: knowledge and the wisdom to be able to process them

1495
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 1: and let go of it and move on. And I

1496
01:08:45,560 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 1: think with every chapter of my life, I'm so grateful

1497
01:08:48,120 --> 01:08:51,719
Speaker 1: I had that each and ever experienced good and bad,

1498
01:08:52,720 --> 01:08:54,760
Speaker 1: because it led me to where I'm at now. I

1499
01:08:54,800 --> 01:08:58,320
Speaker 1: think I'm in a good place, not every day, but

1500
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 1: more so. And I ever have been in my life

1501
01:09:01,560 --> 01:09:04,640
Speaker 1: where I've abandoned myself and it's such an easy thing

1502
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,400
Speaker 1: to do, and I'm just so aware of doing that now.

1503
01:09:07,439 --> 01:09:11,040
Speaker 1: It's like I can't not see it. Once you see yourself,

1504
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 1: you know how many people look in the mirror. Every

1505
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,439
Speaker 1: day you look in the mirror, maybe I think the

1506
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,120
Speaker 1: average is twelve times a day. They say on average

1507
01:09:18,160 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 1: is an hour a day from brushing your teeth to

1508
01:09:20,400 --> 01:09:22,240
Speaker 1: checking your hair, whatever it is, having your hair, got

1509
01:09:23,120 --> 01:09:24,760
Speaker 1: an hour of your day of looking yourself in the mirror.

1510
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:28,560
Speaker 1: So many people see a reflection. Not everyone looks at themselves.

1511
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:30,960
Speaker 1: We just look, but no one actually really looks. And

1512
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,760
Speaker 1: part of my job and my journey has been, I guess,

1513
01:09:33,800 --> 01:09:36,280
Speaker 1: showing people the real mirror so people can really see

1514
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:39,559
Speaker 1: themselves and be seen, and a lot of people are

1515
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:42,479
Speaker 1: not seen. And when you really see people and you

1516
01:09:42,520 --> 01:09:46,240
Speaker 1: break it down to like, why have you always done this?

1517
01:09:46,360 --> 01:09:48,600
Speaker 1: Why have you always repeated this behavior? Why have you

1518
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 1: always got yourself into the same situation? Why have you

1519
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 1: got yourself into the same relationship? There's a pattern to it.

1520
01:09:54,760 --> 01:09:57,160
Speaker 1: Once you see the pattern, and once you break it down,

1521
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:00,360
Speaker 1: you can change it. That's really empowering. I did it

1522
01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:03,200
Speaker 1: with hair for a long time, but I didn't realize

1523
01:10:03,240 --> 01:10:05,200
Speaker 1: I was also doing it in an internal way, and

1524
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:07,760
Speaker 1: everyone can relate to that. People saying your hairdress is

1525
01:10:07,800 --> 01:10:10,639
Speaker 1: your therapist. I didn't even know I was doing that.

1526
01:10:10,640 --> 01:10:12,960
Speaker 1: That's a real part of it. The difference is I

1527
01:10:13,000 --> 01:10:15,000
Speaker 1: used to do it with everyone else, and I'd see them,

1528
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:17,599
Speaker 1: and you know what, I never saw myself. I didn't

1529
01:10:17,600 --> 01:10:19,720
Speaker 1: see myself for twenty seven years of my life. I

1530
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:22,400
Speaker 1: didn't allow myself to look. It was easier to make

1531
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:24,839
Speaker 1: up people see themselves and for me to look at myself.

1532
01:10:25,400 --> 01:10:28,639
Speaker 1: When I saw myself, I could not see it anymore.

1533
01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 1: I could not see who I was and who had become.

1534
01:10:31,320 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: And that defining moment of my life changed every decision

1535
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:39,080
Speaker 1: moving forward. And so if in my bad friendship, if

1536
01:10:39,080 --> 01:10:41,200
Speaker 1: I'm in a bad relationship, if I'm in a bad

1537
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 1: work environment, I'll leave it if it no longer serves me.

1538
01:10:44,520 --> 01:10:46,400
Speaker 1: And if i feel like I've done everything I can

1539
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 1: to be the best person I can and no one's perfect.

1540
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:54,200
Speaker 1: Humans are messy, that's okay. But I've learned to respect

1541
01:10:54,240 --> 01:10:56,760
Speaker 1: myself enough to be able to go back to that

1542
01:10:56,800 --> 01:11:00,040
Speaker 1: little boy at the window and say, it's okay. You

1543
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 1: don't have to be in that anymore. You don't have

1544
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:05,719
Speaker 1: to feel alone. You can be seen. And I'd hope

1545
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 1: that's what everyone does and maybe finds a bit of

1546
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 1: that when they read the book. And obviously it's called

1547
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:14,679
Speaker 1: your Roots Don't Define You. It's about roots and it's

1548
01:11:14,840 --> 01:11:17,599
Speaker 1: a double edged sword, but it is such a powerful

1549
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:20,840
Speaker 1: thing that if you actually stand and look in the

1550
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:24,679
Speaker 1: mirror and look at yourself. This book is for anyone

1551
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:27,120
Speaker 1: that looks back and it's like is this it? Or

1552
01:11:27,120 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 1: anyone who looks in the mirror and is like, I

1553
01:11:29,160 --> 01:11:30,880
Speaker 1: don't really know why I look the way out look,

1554
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,920
Speaker 1: or anyone that does have some success but it's so

1555
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:39,680
Speaker 1: miserable or somemartimes, just people thinking there must be more

1556
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:43,559
Speaker 1: to life. Hopefully this will help people feel like they

1557
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:46,080
Speaker 1: can change that and they can have their comeback, and

1558
01:11:46,120 --> 01:11:48,600
Speaker 1: they can transform not only the way they look on

1559
01:11:48,640 --> 01:11:51,720
Speaker 1: the visual because everyone knows I do that, but if

1560
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:54,240
Speaker 1: they can do it internally, I'm telling you now, their

1561
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:58,479
Speaker 1: life will change. And I hope people can take what

1562
01:11:58,680 --> 01:12:02,599
Speaker 1: I land because I feel like everyone deserves to be free. Yeah,

1563
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:04,479
Speaker 1: you know, I see people in the supermarket, I see

1564
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:06,400
Speaker 1: people walking in the street, and I'm like, I wish

1565
01:12:06,479 --> 01:12:08,320
Speaker 1: you knew what I knew. You know, And I think

1566
01:12:08,320 --> 01:12:10,799
Speaker 1: it's just really special to be able to share that journey.

1567
01:12:10,840 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 2: What do you see in the mirror now when you

1568
01:12:12,479 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 2: look in the mirror you see yourself.

1569
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:18,040
Speaker 1: It depends on the day. Some days it's all right,

1570
01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:21,439
Speaker 1: and other days, you know, like I'm still like I

1571
01:12:21,479 --> 01:12:23,680
Speaker 1: really should lose five pound to my hair a lot

1572
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: good better blonde. You know, you read a comment on

1573
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:29,040
Speaker 1: social media like you look way better blonde, and I'm like, oh,

1574
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:31,479
Speaker 1: you know, it's all right. We all have those voices

1575
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 1: in the head. I hope they're always there. It keeps

1576
01:12:33,360 --> 01:12:35,679
Speaker 1: me alive, it keeps me. I just laugh at myself now.

1577
01:12:36,120 --> 01:12:38,320
Speaker 1: I think I try and treat most things with humor.

1578
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:40,320
Speaker 1: You know, if I do see a headline about myself,

1579
01:12:40,439 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 1: or if I do see someone say something, I'll try

1580
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:43,720
Speaker 1: and laugh it off because I was, what else are

1581
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 1: you going to do? You know, It's like I probably

1582
01:12:45,960 --> 01:12:48,679
Speaker 1: couldn't have done that before. If I went back ten years,

1583
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,240
Speaker 1: I probably couldn't do that. I probably would have gone

1584
01:12:51,320 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 1: crazy and been like, oh my god. Now I'm like,

1585
01:12:54,160 --> 01:12:56,960
Speaker 1: it's okay, it's just someone else's opinion. That's all right.

1586
01:12:57,080 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 1: You know, I can actually laugh at it, and I'm like, well,

1587
01:12:58,720 --> 01:13:01,720
Speaker 1: you know what, probably do look a bit like I

1588
01:13:01,800 --> 01:13:03,120
Speaker 1: need to lose five pounds or I don't know, I

1589
01:13:03,360 --> 01:13:05,320
Speaker 1: can relate to it. I'll just at least laugh at it.

1590
01:13:05,479 --> 01:13:07,519
Speaker 1: We were talking about red carpet pictures. They can make

1591
01:13:07,560 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 1: you crazy, you know, like you you think pretty good

1592
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 1: about yourself. Yeah, I'm good. You know, I feel like

1593
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:13,200
Speaker 1: I look good. You take a picture?

1594
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 2: Is that what I look like? Man? Tell me about it.

1595
01:13:15,960 --> 01:13:17,280
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I saw this picture myself and I

1596
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 1: was like head to toe in brown and for some reason,

1597
01:13:19,680 --> 01:13:21,800
Speaker 1: the background was red and my hair was kind of

1598
01:13:21,840 --> 01:13:23,439
Speaker 1: the same line a lot like a log and that,

1599
01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 1: you know, it's this text shame Aroun'm texting my hold

1600
01:13:25,560 --> 01:13:27,680
Speaker 1: I look like a log, and I just laugh at it.

1601
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 1: You know, It's all right, it's fine. It's just nothing's perfect.

1602
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:33,320
Speaker 2: You get over it after you realize there's more bad

1603
01:13:33,360 --> 01:13:36,439
Speaker 2: pictures of you and Getty than good around. Then I'm

1604
01:13:36,680 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 2: with it.

1605
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 1: And that's the same with like a headline or what

1606
01:13:38,560 --> 01:13:40,599
Speaker 1: I'm like. All right, it's cool, you know, fine, whatever

1607
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 1: I mean. It's not easy. I'm not I'm not saying

1608
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 1: I laugh everything off at all.

1609
01:13:44,280 --> 01:13:45,240
Speaker 2: I'm I have.

1610
01:13:45,360 --> 01:13:47,320
Speaker 1: I'm a dad, and my number one goal is to

1611
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 1: protect my kids, you know, because they're going to see everything.

1612
01:13:51,200 --> 01:13:55,080
Speaker 1: My family see everything. But I've also learned to be

1613
01:13:55,160 --> 01:13:59,240
Speaker 1: able to know that if I'm aligned, sometimes I have

1614
01:13:59,240 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 1: to go back to that and I have to sit

1615
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:01,639
Speaker 1: back in it.

1616
01:14:02,680 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 2: I'm okay, what have the kids read the book?

1617
01:14:06,600 --> 01:14:10,439
Speaker 1: Yeah? They have. Well, I think it's kind of for them.

1618
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I'm Dad. I think one of the

1619
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:17,679
Speaker 1: proudest moments of my life is the fact that they

1620
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:20,680
Speaker 1: have been through so much on this journey with me,

1621
01:14:21,200 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 1: but they can still look at me and call me

1622
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:29,320
Speaker 1: Dad proudly and that means everything to me. And I

1623
01:14:29,320 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 1: don't want to have any secrets. I want to share

1624
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 1: my journey with them, and as difficult as some of

1625
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:38,519
Speaker 1: those topics are, I'd rather show them and say that

1626
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 1: was really hard, and I moved on and this is

1627
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:43,680
Speaker 1: where I'm at now. And I didn't just move on

1628
01:14:43,760 --> 01:14:45,720
Speaker 1: because like it was easy. I moved on because I

1629
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,280
Speaker 1: went through it and it was brutal and it was challenging.

1630
01:14:48,640 --> 01:14:50,800
Speaker 1: But do the work, you know, and it will lead

1631
01:14:50,840 --> 01:14:51,679
Speaker 1: you to a better place.

1632
01:14:51,880 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 2: We reached out to the kids and they send us

1633
01:14:56,240 --> 01:15:03,360
Speaker 2: a note for you. Yeah, and so there's one each

1634
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:06,880
Speaker 2: and I'm going to ask you. I haven't read them yet,

1635
01:15:06,880 --> 01:15:08,519
Speaker 2: so I'm going to hear them for the first time. Too.

1636
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 2: I can ask you to read Kitties out loud.

1637
01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:12,400
Speaker 1: Okay, I can read it out.

1638
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:15,000
Speaker 2: For us, because I've not read it either. I wanted

1639
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:15,640
Speaker 2: to save it for you.

1640
01:15:16,000 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 1: There are so many things I wanted to say over

1641
01:15:17,880 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 1: the years, and sometimes I don't know how to put

1642
01:15:20,280 --> 01:15:22,720
Speaker 1: them into words. But today I just want to tell

1643
01:15:22,760 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 1: you how proud I am truly to be your daughter.

1644
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 1: You've been my example of strength, compassion, and integrity for

1645
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:33,920
Speaker 1: as long as I remember. For every chapter of life,

1646
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:38,680
Speaker 1: you've shown up with grace and honesty. You've made sacrifices

1647
01:15:38,680 --> 01:15:41,519
Speaker 1: that I'll never fully understand, and you've given me a

1648
01:15:41,520 --> 01:15:44,679
Speaker 1: love in a way that made me feel safe, valued,

1649
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:49,479
Speaker 1: and seen. Even now, watching you open your heart and

1650
01:15:49,520 --> 01:15:52,760
Speaker 1: share your story to the world, I'm constantly inspired by

1651
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 1: your vulnerability and courage, and that's rare and a beautiful thing.

1652
01:15:58,280 --> 01:15:59,920
Speaker 1: You've given me so much more than I could ever

1653
01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:04,200
Speaker 1: thankful your love to shake me and your belief in

1654
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:08,400
Speaker 1: me has carried through. I love you so much and

1655
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:12,559
Speaker 1: I'm forever proud to be your daughter. Love Kitty. Oh God,

1656
01:16:13,240 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 1: I don't know I'm shaking. Oh God, I don't know

1657
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:24,640
Speaker 1: what to say. Oh that's how you get me with

1658
01:16:24,680 --> 01:16:32,200
Speaker 1: my kids. I'm just I'm just so grateful that I

1659
01:16:32,320 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 1: have them and that they've been a part of this journey.

1660
01:16:36,040 --> 01:16:38,640
Speaker 1: And like I said that, the biggest achievement of my

1661
01:16:38,680 --> 01:16:42,680
Speaker 1: whole life is that they can call me Dad and

1662
01:16:43,320 --> 01:16:46,240
Speaker 1: say it with pride, because it's been so many times

1663
01:16:46,280 --> 01:16:50,160
Speaker 1: I've not I felt proud of myself, and I have

1664
01:16:50,280 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 1: not been kind to myself, and I think a lot

1665
01:16:53,000 --> 01:16:56,960
Speaker 1: of people can relate to that abandonment of themselves. And yeah,

1666
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:59,960
Speaker 1: having them is this is the greatest gift.

1667
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 2: The beautiful letter and this one's from billionaire.

1668
01:17:02,160 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 1: You know what. I remember that night telling them about

1669
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:09,639
Speaker 1: you know, being gay. It was especially for a boy.

1670
01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:12,000
Speaker 1: There's so it's kind of what guys say, you're gay,

1671
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 1: you're gay. It's always pinned as a bad thing. So

1672
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:18,679
Speaker 1: I knew he was going to face so much going

1673
01:17:18,720 --> 01:17:21,760
Speaker 1: back to school, of people talking and people whispering and

1674
01:17:21,800 --> 01:17:25,719
Speaker 1: people saying stuff to him. And they both have gone

1675
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:28,080
Speaker 1: through so much. They never let me see because they

1676
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:33,880
Speaker 1: knew I was going through my own pain, So like, yeah,

1677
01:17:33,920 --> 01:17:36,640
Speaker 1: this means a lot. Okay, dear Dad, where do I

1678
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:40,400
Speaker 1: even start. One of my first memories as a kid,

1679
01:17:41,120 --> 01:17:44,040
Speaker 1: is you a dressing up a superman to surprise me

1680
01:17:44,080 --> 01:17:47,160
Speaker 1: on my birthday. I thought I'd just met my hero.

1681
01:17:48,720 --> 01:17:51,000
Speaker 1: I didn't realize it then, but as I grew older,

1682
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:54,479
Speaker 1: I came to see the real superhero wasn't a costume,

1683
01:17:55,040 --> 01:17:57,639
Speaker 1: it was a man inside. He went from cutting hair

1684
01:17:57,640 --> 01:17:59,920
Speaker 1: and a small local salon to taking a massive leap

1685
01:18:00,360 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 1: and moving across the world with nothing, and somehow across

1686
01:18:03,240 --> 01:18:06,240
Speaker 1: the chaos, you built a life out there. You work

1687
01:18:06,280 --> 01:18:10,360
Speaker 1: with Hollywood stars, become a businessman, appeared on TV, and

1688
01:18:10,400 --> 01:18:13,080
Speaker 1: now we' even written a book. And for all of that,

1689
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:16,280
Speaker 1: you're still the same guy who makes people laugh and

1690
01:18:16,360 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 1: lights up every room, and who does everything he can

1691
01:18:19,439 --> 01:18:22,439
Speaker 1: to make the people around him happy. But what sticks

1692
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:24,720
Speaker 1: with me the most isn't just what you've accomplished, is

1693
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:27,519
Speaker 1: what you've taught me. He's shown me how to be

1694
01:18:27,560 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 1: confident myself and not to care what other people think.

1695
01:18:30,720 --> 01:18:32,920
Speaker 1: And you've taught me how to stay motivated to reach

1696
01:18:33,040 --> 01:18:36,080
Speaker 1: for the stars. And most importantly, you've taught me how

1697
01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:39,919
Speaker 1: to be respectful, kind and caring and beyond proud.

1698
01:18:39,760 --> 01:18:40,120
Speaker 2: To be on.

1699
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:48,360
Speaker 1: Keep doing you, dad, God, Wow.

1700
01:18:48,360 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 2: I'm kneel in Jos is listening. It's so beautiful man.

1701
01:18:51,600 --> 01:18:53,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very special.

1702
01:18:54,240 --> 01:18:58,160
Speaker 2: It's amazing. Yeah, I feel so proud. I have to

1703
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 2: raise two kids who love you that much. That's pretty special.

1704
01:19:01,640 --> 01:19:06,120
Speaker 1: Yeah. But you know, any parent listening knows that their

1705
01:19:06,880 --> 01:19:09,320
Speaker 1: only goal is to make sure their kids grow up

1706
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:11,559
Speaker 1: with the least amount of pain. And we all know

1707
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 1: the harsh reality of life. You know, when you're a kid,

1708
01:19:14,160 --> 01:19:17,120
Speaker 1: you're so innocent and life is so free, and as

1709
01:19:17,120 --> 01:19:21,040
Speaker 1: we grow older, there's so much baggage phone iturs and

1710
01:19:21,560 --> 01:19:23,160
Speaker 1: I think the only thing you can do is try

1711
01:19:23,200 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 1: and understand it. And I spent many of my years,

1712
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:30,120
Speaker 1: like I said, trying to unpick what didn't belong to

1713
01:19:30,160 --> 01:19:32,559
Speaker 1: me and shake that off, and shake that package off.

1714
01:19:33,400 --> 01:19:38,559
Speaker 1: And if I can save them, if I can save

1715
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,720
Speaker 1: them having to go through some of the struggles I

1716
01:19:41,760 --> 01:19:45,000
Speaker 1: went through because I didn't allow myself to be then

1717
01:19:45,800 --> 01:19:51,280
Speaker 1: I did okay with that, you know, all right, I'm.

1718
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:54,120
Speaker 2: So grateful to you for you, know, your time and

1719
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:56,679
Speaker 2: energy writing this book. I love about how you talk.

1720
01:19:57,040 --> 01:20:00,000
Speaker 2: When people dive in, they'll learn about the personal hate,

1721
01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:02,800
Speaker 2: so that we all have inside of us to learn about.

1722
01:20:02,800 --> 01:20:05,759
Speaker 2: How you talk about how shame lives in the shadows yep,

1723
01:20:06,040 --> 01:20:08,800
Speaker 2: to learn about this whole journey of what it means

1724
01:20:08,800 --> 01:20:10,439
Speaker 2: to make a comeback, and and.

1725
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:13,120
Speaker 1: Also to realize that it's never too late. Yeah, it

1726
01:20:13,160 --> 01:20:16,240
Speaker 1: really is never too late, and sometimes we spend years

1727
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:17,920
Speaker 1: of our life trying to figure that out. But once

1728
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:20,280
Speaker 1: you have that realization, and hopefully the book will be

1729
01:20:20,360 --> 01:20:23,600
Speaker 1: that realization that it isn't too late and maybe a

1730
01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 1: few footsteps into going into the right direction to change things.

1731
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:29,360
Speaker 2: Chris, we end every episode of On Purpose with a

1732
01:20:29,439 --> 01:20:32,080
Speaker 2: final five. Okay, these questions have to be answered in

1733
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:37,120
Speaker 2: one word to one sentence maximum, so Chrisp's in easier

1734
01:20:37,160 --> 01:20:40,519
Speaker 2: final five. Questionable one is what is the best advice

1735
01:20:40,520 --> 01:20:41,679
Speaker 2: you've ever heard or received?

1736
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:45,479
Speaker 1: Live and let live. I think everyone's experience is different.

1737
01:20:45,560 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 1: If there's one thing I've learned in this time on

1738
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:53,760
Speaker 1: the earth is that everyone's going through something. Everyone has

1739
01:20:53,760 --> 01:20:59,800
Speaker 1: had heartache, everyone has had trauma and different baggage, and

1740
01:21:00,040 --> 01:21:02,240
Speaker 1: one is going through some things. I think to try

1741
01:21:02,280 --> 01:21:06,640
Speaker 1: and remember that and let people you know, live, and

1742
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:11,400
Speaker 1: like live you know and be We're so judgmental sometimes

1743
01:21:11,439 --> 01:21:13,960
Speaker 1: and we, like I said, love to put people in boxes,

1744
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:18,400
Speaker 1: and that's something that we all do. If you're aware

1745
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:22,479
Speaker 1: of it, you can understand and be more forgiving towards people.

1746
01:21:22,800 --> 01:21:25,080
Speaker 2: My second question is what is the worst advice you've

1747
01:21:25,080 --> 01:21:25,639
Speaker 2: ever received?

1748
01:21:25,920 --> 01:21:28,160
Speaker 1: I guess stay in your lane. I think I've been

1749
01:21:28,200 --> 01:21:31,639
Speaker 1: told so much of my life to fit in a box.

1750
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:33,439
Speaker 1: There's no boxes you need to fit.

1751
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:38,000
Speaker 2: In question number three, your favorite look you've ever done?

1752
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:40,240
Speaker 2: For Kim and Jaylor.

1753
01:21:40,280 --> 01:21:43,760
Speaker 1: Easy, Kim's met Ball, she did the mole look. It

1754
01:21:43,760 --> 01:21:46,879
Speaker 1: was like the finger Waves look and Jlo super Bowl everyone,

1755
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:50,120
Speaker 1: I think unanimously. They tell me that my favorite, your favorites,

1756
01:21:50,479 --> 01:21:51,599
Speaker 1: they're everyone else's favorite.

1757
01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:54,000
Speaker 2: I think your favorite.

1758
01:21:54,040 --> 01:21:56,360
Speaker 1: Listen, I'm going against the green. Everyone's going to come

1759
01:21:56,400 --> 01:21:58,160
Speaker 1: for me. But I love a blonde Kim and taking

1760
01:21:58,200 --> 01:22:01,280
Speaker 1: that platinum as a whole thing. So probably a blonde Kim.

1761
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:04,320
Speaker 1: I love that. And then j Loo, I don't know.

1762
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:05,960
Speaker 1: I really like it when we did like a short.

1763
01:22:06,000 --> 01:22:08,160
Speaker 1: We did a short hair style for her on The

1764
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:10,519
Speaker 1: Couple of a Law and I loved it just because

1765
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 1: it was so different. I love seeing someone really take

1766
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:15,000
Speaker 1: on a different character in a different story and just

1767
01:22:15,080 --> 01:22:16,599
Speaker 1: try it out, you know, fearlessly.

1768
01:22:16,760 --> 01:22:20,760
Speaker 2: I love that. Question number four, what do you see

1769
01:22:20,800 --> 01:22:23,360
Speaker 2: when you look at the inner mirror. Now, so you

1770
01:22:23,479 --> 01:22:25,639
Speaker 2: told us you on the outside sometimes you're like five

1771
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:26,599
Speaker 2: pounds blonde hair.

1772
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:29,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, what does the inner mirror look like? I think

1773
01:22:29,320 --> 01:22:33,479
Speaker 1: I see a guy that doesn't always have it together,

1774
01:22:34,200 --> 01:22:38,800
Speaker 1: but absolutely tries his best to be the best version

1775
01:22:38,840 --> 01:22:44,040
Speaker 1: of himself, primarily to inspire my kids that they can

1776
01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:47,160
Speaker 1: do the same. And now this book so with people

1777
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:49,320
Speaker 1: feel like they can share that journey with me. And

1778
01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:51,600
Speaker 1: I want to hear over people's stories. I want to

1779
01:22:51,720 --> 01:22:55,720
Speaker 1: hear over people's journey. My greatest pain growing up was

1780
01:22:55,760 --> 01:22:57,800
Speaker 1: that no one spoke. No one spoke about it, no

1781
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:00,360
Speaker 1: one spoke about their experience. And I think people that

1782
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:02,519
Speaker 1: speak and share their stories and their journeys, the more

1783
01:23:02,520 --> 01:23:06,040
Speaker 1: we can all learn and accept and grow all said.

1784
01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:08,800
Speaker 2: Fifth and final question. We asked this to every guest

1785
01:23:08,800 --> 01:23:11,280
Speaker 2: who's ever been on the Showah, if you could create

1786
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:13,840
Speaker 2: one law that everyone in the world had to follow,

1787
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:14,640
Speaker 2: what would it be?

1788
01:23:14,960 --> 01:23:18,519
Speaker 1: My one law would be that everyone stops, looks in

1789
01:23:18,560 --> 01:23:23,320
Speaker 1: the mirror and just says, is this enough? Is this

1790
01:23:24,439 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 1: what I wanted? Is this where I'm at? And? If so, great,

1791
01:23:27,240 --> 01:23:29,599
Speaker 1: but at least just to stop and really look, how

1792
01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:31,600
Speaker 1: did we get to where we got it's going to

1793
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:34,160
Speaker 1: realize that if you want to change, you can, because

1794
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:36,200
Speaker 1: like I said, I've always done that with my hands

1795
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,920
Speaker 1: and sitting in the chair. But I realized there was

1796
01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:43,439
Speaker 1: this whole world that people don't know about. But once

1797
01:23:43,479 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 1: you know, you can't see it.

1798
01:23:44,760 --> 01:23:47,479
Speaker 2: Chris Appleton, The book is called Your Roots, Don't Define You.

1799
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:50,880
Speaker 2: Everyone who's been listening and watching, I cannot wait to

1800
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:52,559
Speaker 2: see what you're taking away. I want to see all

1801
01:23:52,560 --> 01:23:55,760
Speaker 2: the tiktoks, the instagram reels, the stories. I love seeing

1802
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:59,760
Speaker 2: what you extract from these conversations applying your own life.

1803
01:24:00,040 --> 01:24:03,200
Speaker 2: You've had a friend or family member that you haven't

1804
01:24:03,200 --> 01:24:05,000
Speaker 2: even known what to say to you because they've been

1805
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 2: on a similar journey, send this episode to them. I

1806
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:09,240
Speaker 2: think it's going to help a lot of people on

1807
01:24:09,320 --> 01:24:13,559
Speaker 2: their personal journey of transformation and reflection. And make sure

1808
01:24:13,680 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 2: that you keep coming back. Make sure you subscribe so

1809
01:24:16,120 --> 01:24:19,000
Speaker 2: that you never miss out on an episode, because it's

1810
01:24:19,040 --> 01:24:21,320
Speaker 2: stories like this that we built this platform for where

1811
01:24:21,360 --> 01:24:24,120
Speaker 2: people can come and talk about the upstairs downs, the

1812
01:24:24,240 --> 01:24:27,640
Speaker 2: real healing and what that actually looks like. And I

1813
01:24:27,800 --> 01:24:31,160
Speaker 2: highly recommend you go and grab a copy of Chris's book,

1814
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:35,639
Speaker 2: Your Roots Don't Define You. It's available for pre order

1815
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:38,519
Speaker 2: right now as we're speaking. Chris, thank you again so

1816
01:24:38,680 --> 01:24:41,479
Speaker 2: much for trusting me, for trusting the platform. Thank you

1817
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:43,679
Speaker 2: for what you do jes so open and honest.

1818
01:24:43,800 --> 01:24:46,080
Speaker 1: It's a real privilege to be here and share it

1819
01:24:46,200 --> 01:24:48,200
Speaker 1: with you, because I feel like you two have shared

1820
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:50,599
Speaker 1: your journey and since spiring to a lot of people,

1821
01:24:51,080 --> 01:24:52,720
Speaker 1: so you know you're a big inspiration to me, so

1822
01:24:52,840 --> 01:24:55,600
Speaker 1: to be here is very honored. So thank you for

1823
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:56,000
Speaker 1: your time.

1824
01:24:56,280 --> 01:24:58,920
Speaker 2: I genuinely have so much respect for you to be

1825
01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:02,160
Speaker 2: able to talk about some really really difficult stuff, and

1826
01:25:02,720 --> 01:25:04,439
Speaker 2: I think in the world right now, this message is

1827
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:07,639
Speaker 2: really really needed. There's a lot of people that this book,

1828
01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:10,040
Speaker 2: this interview is going to help, and so thank you,

1829
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:13,120
Speaker 2: and I'm so grateful to you for using your platform

1830
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:15,800
Speaker 2: to spread this message. You could talk about your life,

1831
01:25:15,800 --> 01:25:17,599
Speaker 2: you could teach people how to build a big brand,

1832
01:25:17,640 --> 01:25:20,000
Speaker 2: you could teach people to do so many things. But

1833
01:25:20,080 --> 01:25:23,479
Speaker 2: the fact that you've told them about your truth and

1834
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:26,000
Speaker 2: how they can find theirs, it's a really beautiful offering

1835
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:28,720
Speaker 2: in service. So thank you, Chris, thank you, thanks so much.

1836
01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:31,599
Speaker 2: Thank you. Mate. If you love this episode, you will

1837
01:25:31,720 --> 01:25:35,640
Speaker 2: also love my interview with Kendall Jenna on setting boundaries

1838
01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:39,280
Speaker 2: to increase happiness and healing. You're in a child You

1839
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:41,439
Speaker 2: could be reading something that someone is saying about you

1840
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:43,479
Speaker 2: and being like, that is so unfair because that's not

1841
01:25:43,560 --> 01:25:46,400
Speaker 2: who I am and that really gets to me sometimes.

1842
01:25:46,439 --> 01:25:48,200
Speaker 2: But then looking at myself in the mirror and being like,

1843
01:25:48,280 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 2: but I know who I am.

1844
01:25:49,479 --> 01:25:50,679
Speaker 1: Why does anything else matter?