1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Get in touch with technologies with tech Stuff from how 2 00:00:05,440 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: stuff dot com. Hello again, everyone, and welcome to tech stuff. 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: My name is Chris Poette and I am an editor 4 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,000 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot Com. Sitting across from me, 5 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: as is typical, is senior writer Jonathan Strickland. He there. 6 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: Uh sorry, I was catching up on my chef bill. 7 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: I needed to make some falcaccio. I was actually asking 8 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: people to come over and water my plants virtually, So 9 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: you may have already guessed today's topic is a quick 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: look because it hasn't been that old, a quick look 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 1: at the history of Zinga and Zinga is a company 12 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: that has made a big name for itself, not always 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: in a positive way online. And if you don't know 14 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: what Zinga is, it's a company that's based out of 15 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: San Francisco, California, as many tech companies are, and it 16 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: is a video game company. But it's a game company 17 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: that typically produces games that are either meant to go 18 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: on mobile devices, so smartphones and tablets, or they're meant 19 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 1: to exist on another platform like Facebook or Google Plus. 20 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,120 Speaker 1: Although you can also go to the Zinga dot com 21 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: homepage and play games within widgets. Yeah, and uh, if you, 22 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,559 Speaker 1: if you weren't sitting from where we were. As soon 23 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: as Jonathan said that this episode was going to be 24 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 1: about Zinga, you probably didn't hear the groans of many 25 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: of our listeners. We we heard you. It's okay, it 26 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 1: was hold on. It was like a thousand voices created 27 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: out in English and then were suddenly silenced. Yeah, zing 28 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 1: is it is a company that has acquired a following 29 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: and a big group of people who have pitchforks and 30 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: torches both there there there seemed to be a few 31 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: people in the middle of that, but not really. It's 32 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: it's uh, we'll get into that in just a minute, 33 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: but it does have quite a large group of people 34 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: who really pick on Zinga because of its business practices. 35 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: Um so, some people really love the games and some 36 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: of the games I don't really consider games because it's 37 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: really no ending to them. They're sort of software toys. 38 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 1: But they do they do make some games and things 39 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 1: and and there they had quite a huge, uh following, 40 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: even just a short time ago. But let's but it's 41 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 1: it's an interesting story because, as as Jonathan pointed out, 42 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: it has been a very short time. I mean, they 43 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: went from sort of nobody's in the industry, competing with 44 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: some of the biggest players like Electronic Arts to you know, 45 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: darlings of the computer industry and sort of towards back 46 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: again and not quite back again, but they're they're approaching it. 47 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 1: They're hurt as of the time. We're recordings in and 48 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: we'll get more into all of that. So this is 49 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: a company that was founded by a fellow named Mark 50 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: Jonathan Pinkus who found h Zinga right around two thousand seven, 51 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:07,760 Speaker 1: and and Pinkas had been working well, he held several 52 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: jobs which in an interesting article we read on venture Beat, 53 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 1: which it was what was it a twelve page article 54 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 1: about the history of Zinga. Oh, that's an amazing article. 55 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: I would totally recommend people going to check this out 56 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: of because we we can't cover the same amount of 57 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,920 Speaker 1: material and it it actually ends before we wanted to 58 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: end too, so but a lot of our our research. 59 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:29,720 Speaker 1: It's a very well written article and we use a 60 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 1: lot of our research on this on this It was 61 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,160 Speaker 1: written by Dean Takahashi for venture Beats and also has 62 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: been converted converted into a sixty three page e book 63 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: on Amazon's Kindle bookstore. So yeah, it's it's a very 64 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: deep look at the history of zincing. Now, we should 65 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: say this was written in two thousand eleven and a 66 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: lot has happened since then. But uh. In that article 67 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: they mentioned how Pinkas had said he had essentially been 68 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:05,640 Speaker 1: fired or asked to leave every job he held earlier 69 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: on in his career, and then came to the conclusion 70 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: that what he needed to become was an entrepreneur, so 71 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: working for himself rather than working for someone else who 72 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: would eventually tell him to go away. Well, that's that's 73 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: what these are not my well that was my paraphrasing 74 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: of what he said, but these were his words, and 75 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 1: and he was probably being somewhat facetious, but essentially what 76 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: he was saying is that he has this desire to 77 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: create businesses, and so he struck out and started struck 78 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: out his inn, left the corporate world, not struck out 79 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: his inn with it, and then started to launch businesses 80 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 1: and several of them saw some early success. He h 81 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:54,839 Speaker 1: he launched companies like Freeloader Incorporated. UM, he launched a 82 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 1: very very early social network called Tribe Networks, which did 83 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 1: not ultimately go anywhere, right, I mean, that was one 84 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: of those ideas where it actually preceded things like MySpace 85 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: and Facebook. So so he he was onto something. He 86 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:15,559 Speaker 1: saw the he saw the horizon. He saw that social 87 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: networking could be a big thing. It's just that his approach, 88 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 1: perhaps it wasn't the right approach, perhaps it didn't come 89 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:22,920 Speaker 1: at the right time. It might have been some sort 90 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 1: of combination of these and other factors as well. At 91 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: any rate, it did not take off like a MySpace 92 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: or later on a Facebook. No, No, that's that's true. UM. 93 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: And it's also interesting to note that none of the 94 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: companies that he had uh started before and he they're 95 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: conflicting reports about the number of companies that he was 96 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: starting and or involved with. Um, they're a handful, like 97 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: the ones that that we've mentioned. UM. Apparently too, he 98 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: has been quoted as saying that there were far more 99 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: failures than successes too, so he may have been involved 100 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: with more of them. But they're not naming companies. We're 101 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: not talking about somebody like you know, Trip Hawkins, who's 102 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 1: known for being a you know, he he was you know, 103 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: founder of e A and you know, got into digital 104 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 1: chocolate later. Um. But yeah, I mean, he wasn't known 105 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: as a gaming industry giant who started a new a 106 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: new gang of gaming company. This is his first gaming 107 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: for a and uh there's also some mild controversy about 108 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 1: the name Zinga. He has been quoted as saying is 109 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 1: named after his uh dearly departed puppy dog, bulldog. Yeah. 110 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: And then there's another story that I read on a 111 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: totally different article which said that he had a friend 112 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 1: who used the online handle Muzinga often people would just 113 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 1: refer to him as Zinga, and that he had named 114 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,720 Speaker 1: his dog after this person. Uh, but that's sort of 115 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: the same story, but only yeah, a little yeah, a 116 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 1: little bit more of no tracing it back where does vend? 117 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: But anyway, he called the company's He hired on some 118 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: folks like h Eric Scheiermeyer, Michael Luxton, Justin Waldron, Kyle Stewart, 119 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: Scott Dale, Kevin Hagen, Steve Shuttler, and Andrew Trader. And 120 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: he had these guys together, and his idea was to 121 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: create these simple, uh easy to learn, easy to play 122 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: games because he was he kind of equated it to 123 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: going to a cocktail party and hanging out and just 124 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: chatting for a while. You know, it's a pleasant experience. 125 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: You don't tend to have super deep conversations at a 126 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: cocktail party unless you're going to a cocktail party held 127 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: by nuclear physicists. Um. Then in general, you tend to 128 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: talk about a lot of different things and you don't 129 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: get too far down into the service, but you can 130 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 1: have an entertaining conversation sort of the same thing he 131 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: wanted to do with these games, Like he saw the 132 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: games that other companies were making that were these very deep, 133 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: rich experiences, um, lots of work developing the world and 134 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: the physics or or the game mechanics, and he said, well, 135 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: you know that there is a place for that, But 136 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: what if we concentrate on games that were meant for 137 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: a more casual player, someone who you know, enjoys the 138 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 1: game mechanics, the gameplay is fun and has some sort 139 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: of reward system in place so that the player feels 140 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: like they should keep playing. But it doesn't need to 141 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: be as deep, and it doesn't have to exist on 142 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: its own. It doesn't have to be like, uh, you 143 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: don't have to go to a store and buy a 144 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: box that has a disk in it and bring it 145 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: home and and install it. It's something that could exist 146 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 1: on top of another existing platform, whether that's a web 147 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:44,560 Speaker 1: page or a social network as it would turn out later, 148 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 1: or a mobile device. Yeah. Um, and uh. One of 149 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: the one of the earliest maneuvers that I think set 150 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,280 Speaker 1: zinga apart from its competitors was, uh, it launched games 151 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: on my Space because that was, you know, the network 152 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: of choice, but it also it was hedging its bets 153 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: on the new competitor, Facebook. Yeah, back in two thousand 154 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 1: and seven. It's easy for us to forget now that 155 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: my Facebook has beaten a billion subscribers, right. Facebook is 156 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,839 Speaker 1: now over one billion active subscribers or accounts. I'm betting 157 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 1: that some of those people have multiple accounts, probably just again, 158 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: but still that's a lot of accounts. Over five million 159 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: people have accounts on Facebook. Um. But yeah, yeah. Back 160 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: in the day, you know, my Space was dominating for 161 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: the longest time, and Facebook was only open to college students. 162 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: So for a while, a lot of people thought that 163 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: Facebook was going to be an also ran it was 164 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: never going to catch up. That, of course, is not 165 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: what happened. And and now we're in an era where 166 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: my Space is launching yet another redesign, dramatic redesign to 167 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: see if they can can can emerge from the dull 168 00:09:57,600 --> 00:10:00,559 Speaker 1: drums and perhaps become a player again, and it may 169 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: very well happen. It's easy to write off my Space 170 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: after its precipitous fall, but we've seen companies rise and 171 00:10:08,640 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: fall and rise again before, so you know, you never 172 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,599 Speaker 1: say never at any rate. Like like Chris was saying, Zinga, 173 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: they were looking ahead and saying, you know, we want 174 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: to make sure that are what we're producing ends up 175 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,480 Speaker 1: getting to as many people as possible. And that means 176 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: we can't just assume that one platform is always going 177 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:33,360 Speaker 1: to be the way people access content online. And so 178 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: they started to create games that would work on Facebook. 179 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: And you know, Facebook had a very limited a p 180 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: I at the time, like there were an application programming interface, right, 181 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: So Facebook was not a platform for other programs early 182 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: in its existence. Certainly no it that eventually changed, and 183 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: they did experiment with it fairly early, but it was 184 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 1: you know, it was until fairly recently that it actually 185 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: became a viable platform for a company to launch an app. 186 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: But back in two thousand seven, Zinga released a game 187 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 1: on Facebook, and it was a social poker game, free 188 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 1: to play, Texas Hold Him poker. Okay, so Zinka did 189 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:22,719 Speaker 1: a very smart thing here, because you know, this is 190 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: back when poker, which had been around for a very 191 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: long time, uh you know, just sort of sitting there 192 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: under the surface, waiting to be rediscovered. And that's about when, 193 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: you know, in the mid two thousand's, that's when people 194 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: were really getting back on board, which was really strange. 195 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 1: I mean it just seemed to come out of nowhere, like, uh, 196 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: suddenly there was this huge focus on poker in general 197 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 1: and Texas hold Him in particular particular. ESPN started showing 198 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: it and thought, wow, this has become a sport, and uh, 199 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: you know, there was a lot of interest. I mean 200 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 1: I've I've watched my share of World Series of Poker 201 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:58,560 Speaker 1: tournaments and it is a very fascinating thing. And it's 202 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: you know, even by two thousands seven that that fervor 203 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,800 Speaker 1: had not really died down. I would say that perhaps 204 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: today there's not quite as much interest and as there 205 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: used to be. I mean we used to see like 206 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: celebrity poker tournaments and on television all the time, but 207 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: it's still there's still an interest there. And uh, so 208 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: Zinga said, well, you know, let's produce a game that 209 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: is on a social network that's getting a lot of attention, 210 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: and let's do it a game that's actually popular in 211 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: the UH and the zeitgeist at this moment. Let's let's 212 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: combine these things and we're going to try and capitalize 213 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: on it. And it worked. Yeah, the UH. It's kind 214 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 1: of interesting too because this is where social gaming is 215 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: now pretty big thing, and so is casual gaming. Again, 216 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:49,439 Speaker 1: it's sort of like poker these things. Well, social gaming, no, 217 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:52,320 Speaker 1: but casual gaming has. It's been around for forever and ever, 218 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,640 Speaker 1: you know. But the thing is, it wasn't the big 219 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 1: money maker that it is now, and it is thanks 220 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: in part two companies like zinga UM who found ways 221 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: to get people back involved with it. You know, you 222 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: play let's say you play a game on a social game, 223 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: a casual game on a UM you know, online somewhere. Okay, 224 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: so you've played it, and you know, after a couple 225 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 1: of weeks, you know that the interest kind of waynes 226 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: You know, I've played it. I love that game, and 227 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,559 Speaker 1: you'll come back to it again in the future maybe, 228 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 1: but you know, it's you get away from it because 229 00:13:25,920 --> 00:13:27,679 Speaker 1: you lose track of you know, you have something you 230 00:13:27,720 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: gotta do on Tuesday night. Now on Wednesday night's kind 231 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: of packed two and after a couple of weeks ago, 232 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: I just don't feel like going back. But Zinga introduced 233 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: the the concept of adding poker chips to this game. 234 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: But this is one of those things that Zinga has 235 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: developed a reputation for acting in sort of weird ways 236 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: on this this Holdham Poker game. They they had a 237 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: thing where they you could, you could add more friends. Um, 238 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 1: you know, they wanted you to get poker chips and 239 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: if you would, uh you know, help them, uh you know, 240 00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 1: download by downloading this key. What almost Yeah, this was 241 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: one of those things where actually this would come back 242 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: to hunt Pinkas later where he he essentially said in 243 00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: a later interview that he made every horrible decision you 244 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: could make in order to make money. He was trying 245 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: to find different ways to generate revenue, and it didn't 246 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,960 Speaker 1: matter what impact it would have on the user experience. 247 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: That's that's how people have interpreted those words. Now, whether 248 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: Pinkas really meant truly that he tried every horrible thing 249 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: or not doesn't really matter, because as people in later years, 250 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 1: uh said, you know, they just went ahead and interpreted 251 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: it as that and that became the reality, which is 252 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: kind of you know, just says be careful what you say, 253 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: because because later on, even if you're saying something and 254 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: you're exaggerating in order to make a point, people may 255 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,480 Speaker 1: later take that exaggeration as the gospel truth. And whether 256 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: or not it was, that's how it's been interpreted. So yeah, 257 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: Pinkas said, we tried all these different things, and if 258 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: you downloaded this wiki, the idea was that you would 259 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: download this this tool and it would in the game, 260 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: you would end up being rewarded with more poker chips. 261 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: But again it was a negative experience for most users. 262 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: And and even Pinkas said, like, I couldn't figure out 263 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: how to remove this thing once I installed it. So uh, 264 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: there were other ways of trying to generate revenue, and 265 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: in fact, uh, the game was profitable for Zinga. They 266 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: ended up raising some money. It wasn't a whole lot 267 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: in the grand scheme of things, but it was important 268 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: to Pinkas that they they show that the company was 269 00:15:45,840 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: capable of generating revenue before he went out to seek 270 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: around of funding. He didn't want to go out and 271 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: hit venture capitalists without first being able to say, look, 272 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,600 Speaker 1: I can prove to you that what we're doing has 273 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,479 Speaker 1: a play in this market. This company has a demonstrable 274 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 1: value because we're able to make money. Otherwise you're just 275 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: going up to catalists and saying, hey, look, this game 276 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 1: is really popular, a lot of people are playing it. 277 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: You should give me money. Like, until you can prove 278 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 1: me money, until you can prove that all those people 279 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: are generating revenue for you, it's really hard to get 280 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: the investors on board. I mean Twitter has seen this, 281 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,280 Speaker 1: uh for for years. Since Twitter started, they had a 282 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: lot of users, but for the longest time, there was 283 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 1: really no revenue generating uh operation there. I mean there's 284 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: just very little, if any, and so uh you know. Essentially, 285 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 1: the way that to convince venture cabalists to invest in 286 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: something like Twitter is to say it's a huge, huge service. 287 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: Millions of people are using it and depending upon it. Uh, 288 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: the gap that it would leave if it went away 289 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 1: is enormous. Therefore it is valuable. All we have to 290 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: do is figure out the a of tapping into that value. 291 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 1: And that's enough for some investors. But Pinkus was like, no, 292 00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: I want to make sure that I have a good 293 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: story to tell when I go and visit these venture capitalists, 294 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: and he did, and so in two thousand and seven 295 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: he actually had the first round of UH venture capital 296 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 1: and and was able to get investments. Then he was 297 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:26,560 Speaker 1: also UM well back in January two thou because it 298 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: was late two thousand seven when we started pursuing it. 299 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,480 Speaker 1: January two tho eight, they raised about five million dollars 300 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,440 Speaker 1: from various venture capital funds and then UH six months 301 00:17:36,520 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: later they did a second round of fundraising and raised 302 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: another twenty nine million. And at that point they also 303 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:50,120 Speaker 1: hired on someone as a sort of consultant named Bing Gordon, 304 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: who was a former chief creative officer with Electronic Arts. 305 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: So here is someone who has had experience with the 306 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 1: major video game company coming on board with Zinga. UH. 307 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: The the the title most often given to Mr Gordon 308 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,959 Speaker 1: is Consigliari, which, for those of you who are fans 309 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: of the Godfather trilogy will think, wow, so some sort 310 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 1: of quote unquote family consultant has joined on. Well, it's 311 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,439 Speaker 1: it's kind of funny since Mafia Wars was the the 312 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: big cross platform hit for Zinga at that point, which 313 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: may may or may not be related. Yeah, and also 314 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: the the acquisition of Yoville, which is still you know, 315 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,200 Speaker 1: moving along out there. They they have continued to support 316 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: that game. Now, Mafia Wars raises one of the big 317 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:56,879 Speaker 1: big stories within Zinga, which is something that would haunt 318 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:01,159 Speaker 1: them for years. Um a few short years that have 319 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,879 Speaker 1: existed between when Mafia Wars has come out and today. 320 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: But one of the issues about Mafia Wars was that 321 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 1: people pointed out there was an earlier game called Mob Wars, which, um, 322 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 1: Mafia Wars bore a certain similarity to Mob Wars, some 323 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 1: would say, to the point of identity. This is another 324 00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:30,159 Speaker 1: one of those points which the uh Zinga detractors like 325 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: to make, um, which is and it's not completely unwarranted. 326 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: Um yeah that will I will neither say that it 327 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: is or isn't warranted to say that many of Zinga's 328 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: games bear a striking resemblance to other popular, successful social 329 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 1: network games. And and there are there the first right. Well, 330 00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 1: there have been people from Zinga, like former employees, who 331 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,720 Speaker 1: have said that the message, essentially, according to these former employees, 332 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: was that find games out there that work, copy them, 333 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 1: and do whatever you have to do to be as 334 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: popular or more popular than the previous game. Now, whether 335 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 1: or not that was actually a directive within Zinga, I 336 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: cannot say. This may very well be the words of 337 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 1: employees who have uh, you know, an ax to grind 338 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: against the company, and they're saying whatever they want to 339 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: kind of disparage it. I don't know. I don't want 340 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: to pass judgment seeing as how I don't have that 341 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,199 Speaker 1: direct experience. But there have been people who have essentially 342 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: accused Zinga, former employees who have accused Zinga of purposefully 343 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: setting out to copy other games and to use the 344 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: popularity of Zinga and its broad reach to essentially, uh 345 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: co opt those games from the original creators. Now, with 346 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: the case of Mob Wars and Mafia Wars, there's some 347 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:04,280 Speaker 1: more murky issues there. Uh. The Zinga executives were saying 348 00:21:04,280 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 1: things along the lines of, you know, we were in 349 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,960 Speaker 1: talks of actually acquiring Mob Wars, but then the guy 350 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: who designed Mob Wars learned about how Zinga was going 351 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 1: into selling virtual goods in order to generate revenue. Here's 352 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: another way of generating revenue with a free to play game. 353 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: So besides convincing you to download tools that you will 354 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 1: never get rid of as a way of generating revenue 355 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: by making a partnership with whomever is creating the tool. 356 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 1: Another way is to sell virtual goods that give you 357 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 1: some sort of edge or some sort of uh customization 358 00:21:40,600 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: ability within a virtual game for real money. And once 359 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: the guy from Mob Wars saw that, then he began 360 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: to incorporate those same features within Mob Wars. So Zinga 361 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: has said, wait, no, the guy from mob Wars was 362 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: copying us. So yes, our game is also about mafia warfare. 363 00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: But our game was built a round this idea of 364 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: selling virtual goods. His wasn't until he heard about it 365 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: from us. So there's this sort of there's this crossfire 366 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: of accusations between the two groups, right, But in the 367 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:15,400 Speaker 1: end you have Mafia Wars coming out, and there were 368 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: lawsuits about you know, infringing copyright, infringing intellectual property. And 369 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: this was not the one and only time this happened 370 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: to Zinga. That's happened, you know, in other with other 371 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 1: games as well, um including one that one of the 372 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 1: more popular games that Zinga pushed out was Farmville, and 373 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,400 Speaker 1: there was another farm based game that again people said, 374 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:42,719 Speaker 1: this bears a certain resemblance to this other game. And 375 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: again there are conflicting reports about whether or not the 376 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 1: people at Zinga were aware of that game, whether they 377 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,320 Speaker 1: were purposefully trying to copy it, or if this was 378 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: just a parallel development issue. Um. And again we don't 379 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: have the whole story right. One one one report suggests 380 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,680 Speaker 1: that one of the venture capital fund UH fund managers 381 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: had said, or or I guess the people at the 382 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: venture capital firm had said, you know, why don't you 383 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: do a farm game? Yeah, I don't know. It's it's 384 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: it's very difficult to tell. Um. And uh. You know, 385 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: there are a lot of stories that fly around when 386 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 1: you when you have this kind of corporate drama going on. Um. 387 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 1: But yes, certainly, uh, certainly Farmville is another one of 388 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: those games that that you know, came out at the 389 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: same you know, time frame, a little later than another 390 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: very popular farm game, So you know, it's easy to 391 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: make that comparison. Yeah, and uh. And also this is 392 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,399 Speaker 1: the time where if you were on Facebook during this time, 393 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,239 Speaker 1: you began to get irritated if you were not a 394 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: fan of these games at the numerous UH notifications you 395 00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 1: would received whenever your friends were raising sheep or planting corn, 396 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: and you had learned that there field of corn needed 397 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: watering or whatever. Okay, enough anyway, So yeah, this was 398 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 1: this was a time where people who were not fans 399 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: of this game became haters of the games because their 400 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,919 Speaker 1: their Facebook notifications were starting to fill up with these 401 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: these game notifications which you could hide, and many of 402 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: us chose that option immediately. Well, um, you know many 403 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: many people have talked about Mark Zuckerberg, the founder of Facebook, 404 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: and whether or not he sees everybody's you know, personal 405 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 1: privacy or you know everybody wants to have these connections 406 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,120 Speaker 1: to your friends, and you know these these questions. Well, 407 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: Mark Pinkas is another person who basically says, you know, hey, 408 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: playing games is fun when you do it socially. So 409 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: the Zinga games, uh, from when I first became aware 410 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,040 Speaker 1: of them, at least, which is I would I would 411 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: guess Farmville. I think I became familiar with Mafia Wars afterward. Um, 412 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:04,159 Speaker 1: but yeah, that's one of the very first things you do, 413 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: and you know, I wanted to try it out, see 414 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: what it was all about. And one of the very 415 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: first things they ask you to do when you when 416 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,560 Speaker 1: it comes on and say, hey, what other friends and 417 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: they look at your Facebook list of friends. Um, you know, 418 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,800 Speaker 1: they made it possible to look at just the ones 419 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 1: that are playing the game, but for the most part, 420 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,960 Speaker 1: they say, hey, who in this entire list of friends 421 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: wants a free mail of hey? Or you know what? 422 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: You know, wouldn't these people really like to play? And 423 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: you know you're playing experience will be much better the 424 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:35,360 Speaker 1: more friends you have playing it. And you know, there 425 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: is something about social gaming I don't I don't mean 426 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,040 Speaker 1: to disparage social gaming at all. No, I mean there 427 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: are plenty of social games out there that I think 428 00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:45,679 Speaker 1: are lots of fun, particularly if you have a lot 429 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,240 Speaker 1: of friends who are also into that game. And then 430 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: there are games out there that if you're the only 431 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,919 Speaker 1: one playing, they aren't fun at all. You know, you 432 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 1: need other people playing that game to make it worthwhile. 433 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 1: I would argue that with my experiences with Zinca tie 434 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: Ols that that's very much the case with a lot 435 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: of these vill games. You didn't see the dash right before, Yeah, 436 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: I mean, if you, if you, if you, well, there's 437 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: an option. This is another one of Zinga's uh you 438 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 1: know when when they've been on the forefront of this movement, 439 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: is hey, you don't have to if you don't want 440 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,080 Speaker 1: to share this with fifty of your friends, that's fine. 441 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: You can pay up real money if you'd like to 442 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 1: have in game money, that would be just fine with us. Right. 443 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: So again we're getting over to that virtual goods for 444 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 1: real money, and in fact, that became the chief way 445 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: that Zinga made money for a long time. Like the 446 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:39,639 Speaker 1: revenue that Zinga made came from selling virtual goods. And 447 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,240 Speaker 1: of course with that model, you want as many people 448 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: as possible playing your game. Now, the game itself is free, 449 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: So just because you have a half million people playing 450 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: a game doesn't mean you're making money off of them. 451 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: But even if only a small percentage of that million 452 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: are ponying up real cash for virtual goods, that's a 453 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: lot of money. I mean, when you're talking about huge 454 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:05,840 Speaker 1: numbers like that, even a small percentage can be a 455 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: significant amount of cash. And that's also why Zinga released 456 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,400 Speaker 1: so many games. It wasn't like you know, a game 457 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 1: company that might have one or two titles, maybe maybe 458 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 1: as many as six titles in a year. They're releasing 459 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,920 Speaker 1: games all the time. And uh Pincus is not afraid 460 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:27,399 Speaker 1: to pull the plug on a game if he sees 461 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 1: that it's not really working. He's he's killed off games 462 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: early early on in the process when he said, Okay, 463 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: no one is really sharing this among this test group. 464 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: That tells me that this is not a very sticky game. 465 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 1: Sticky meaning that this is the sort of thing that 466 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: people like to go back to and they like to 467 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: share it. Uh. Once he saw that, he said, all right, 468 00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,280 Speaker 1: let's get rid of that, because we shouldn't be dedicating 469 00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 1: any resources to something that's not getting results. Now, this 470 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: also meant that people who worked for Zinga might be 471 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: working on a project that ultimately could get the plug 472 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: pulled on it shortly after launch, and you had such 473 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 1: a quick turnaround rate that you were always working. That 474 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:12,120 Speaker 1: that working for Zinga could be a very demanding experience. 475 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: And uh, in fact, I did a look. I looked 476 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: at the at some surveys online about employee reaction to 477 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 1: working for Zinga, and uh of the people who worked 478 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 1: there said that they would recommend Zinga to a friend 479 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,680 Speaker 1: who was looking for employment. So fifty just over half 480 00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: would say Zinga is a good place to work. And 481 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: that study, well, the the the the latest I saw 482 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 1: was FORLVE, but that could have been early because we're 483 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 1: gonna get into Zinga's more recent experience in a little bit. 484 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: But the other thing was that fifty nine percent said 485 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: they thought that Pinkus was doing a good job as 486 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: CEO of Zinga, So that means were either not impressed 487 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: or actively they did not like what he's doing. Yeah. Well, 488 00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:13,160 Speaker 1: if you look at it strictly as a business model, um, 489 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: the game The games themselves are brilliant because not only 490 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,240 Speaker 1: are they social games. Um, they encourage you to add 491 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: friends and play with your your Facebook friends. But in 492 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: addition to that, they want you to you know, spend 493 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: a few real life dollars in there as well. I 494 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: mean you can, you can play without spending any real 495 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,680 Speaker 1: cash and and in fact I have never spent a 496 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: cent on any of the games. However, I can tell 497 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: you that playing it with no or few friends without 498 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:51,240 Speaker 1: spending cash makes them maddeningly slow and difficult to achieve anything. 499 00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: They like to encourage you to buy a special building 500 00:29:55,240 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: or a specific decoration for your castle slash farm, slash city, 501 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: slash whatever. Yeah, um, and you know you can. You can. 502 00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: You can maybe have your friends give you one, or 503 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: you could you know, spend five dollars and and earn 504 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: enough in game cash to do that, or or maybe 505 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 1: you're building something, a large building in your your world, 506 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, if you just fork over a 507 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: few dollars, it will happen that much faster, and and 508 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,320 Speaker 1: it makes more in game money than anything else. And 509 00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:28,920 Speaker 1: the thing is, all of a sudden, you've encouraged your 510 00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 1: friends to start playing, and they're all spending five dollars, 511 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,840 Speaker 1: ten dollars of their money and so on. And so 512 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: it's a brilliant business model if you can get enough 513 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: people to do it and you and also they pointed 514 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,200 Speaker 1: out that once they get this network in place, they 515 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: don't have to win over everyone who's playing every time, 516 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: because if they get just a few, If I have 517 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,719 Speaker 1: a lot of friends playing games on Zinga and then 518 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,920 Speaker 1: a few of them start playing a new game, that 519 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: may tempt me to try out the new game game 520 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 1: as well. And so I know, the idea is that 521 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,280 Speaker 1: once you get that big net of users, that network 522 00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: of users, then you've you've got enough seeds planted Farmville 523 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 1: or otherwise to try and convince more people to try 524 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 1: out new games as you release them. So even when 525 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: you get tired of an old game, a new game 526 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 1: might come along and you want to play that, And 527 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 1: that did work for a while. In fact, when that 528 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: article that we were citing earlier, the venture Beat article, 529 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: when that was written back in two thousand eleven, Uh, 530 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: Zinga was on the rise. I mean they were doing 531 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 1: really really well. Uh they held an i p O 532 00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: and uh and that I p O there their stock 533 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 1: was originally that's initial public offering offering, thank you. Uh, 534 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: they held that back in December eleven. So at the 535 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: end of eleven they have this i p O. And 536 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: originally their stock was priced at ten dollars. By March, 537 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: that price had gone up to fourteen dollars fifth sense 538 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: per share, so the stock was was increasing in value. 539 00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 1: But some stuff has happened since then. One of those 540 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: things is a pretty spectacular deal that Zinga made with 541 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: another company called o MG Pop, which created a little 542 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: game called draw Something. Draw Something was incredibly popular, uh, 543 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: Like shortly after it came out. That's pretty much what 544 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: I heard all of my friends in the tech industry. 545 00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: That's all I heard from them, like on their Twitter 546 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,280 Speaker 1: feeds and everything. They talked about draw Something and how 547 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: fun it was and um, and it did have a 548 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: pretty incredible adoption rate, and oh yeah it was. It 549 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: was soaring. They were the darling, sudden darling of the 550 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:59,000 Speaker 1: UH mobile and online gaming casual gaming thing because basically 551 00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: was a drawing game where the your opponent wasn't actually 552 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: your opponent, they were actually working with you. Yeah, essentially. Yeah, 553 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: So the game was incredibly popular, and so Zinga looked 554 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: at that and said, well, we should take advantage of this. 555 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: We should use this capital that we've raised through the 556 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: I p O and just through our revenues and everything 557 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: else and UH and purchase this company because it would 558 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,000 Speaker 1: be a very valuable asset in our our repertoire. And 559 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: so they did for around a hundred and eighty million dollars. 560 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,239 Speaker 1: And the problem was that they bought that company just 561 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: before it hit its peak in UH in adoption, and 562 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: then shortly thereafter people began to lose interest in the 563 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 1: game through no fault of the game. This is just 564 00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: the way we work as human beings. Like we find 565 00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: something new and fun and we go crazy about it, 566 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: and then after we get used to it for a while, 567 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: we just stopped thinking about it so much and we 568 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,760 Speaker 1: don't use it as much. Um. The same thing is true, 569 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: very true with a lot of casual games. In fact, 570 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: Zinga seemed that over its history, and that's one of 571 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: the reasons why Zinga releases these games so frequently. It's 572 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: because you can't just release a game. Even if you 573 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:20,640 Speaker 1: created a truly amazing game, like something that someone would 574 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: play and there'd be nothing but praise said about that game. 575 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: It has a shelf life, you know, and and you 576 00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 1: you might have the long tail experience where you've got 577 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 1: people who are finding the game late and adopting it late, 578 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 1: but it's never going to be as many or as 579 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 1: intense as that early era when people first discover it. Well, 580 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: same thing happened with draw Something and so even though 581 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 1: it was this phenomenal success at the time when Zinga 582 00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: was looking into buying it, surely thereafter people stopped playing it, 583 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,440 Speaker 1: or at least huge numbers of people stopped playing it 584 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: and UH and so it suddenly looked like Zinga had 585 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: paid way too much money for a company, like they 586 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: had seriously overvalued o MG Pop when they acquired it. 587 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: That's not the only company that Zinga has acquired. They've 588 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: acquired other companies as well. In their UH. Their quest 589 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,920 Speaker 1: to succeed as a company. Um and in other cases 590 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of similar. In fact, there were ties 591 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,400 Speaker 1: where Zinga was looking at things like a pop Cap games, 592 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,120 Speaker 1: UM that was not bought by Zinga. There was another 593 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:30,520 Speaker 1: company that swept that up. Yeah. As a matter of fact, Uh, 594 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: Zinga reportedly made a bigger offer for um the indie 595 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: legend gaming legend PopCap than uh than Electronic Arts, the 596 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:47,479 Speaker 1: eventual winner did, but they actually turned it down. Uh. 597 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: And of course now they have gone. By the way. 598 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: The pop Cap is known for titles like the Jeweled 599 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,280 Speaker 1: Plants Versus Zombies Zuma and uh you know. They they 600 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: had made the move from being a computer based developer 601 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: to the mobile world. Um and uh you know also 602 00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: to um uh also to the social gaming sites you 603 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:15,280 Speaker 1: know Facebook, they've you know, but Jeweled Blitz and zooma 604 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 1: Blitz are among the largest, most durable titles that I've seen. Um, 605 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: you know, come and go on the Facebook platform and 606 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:26,839 Speaker 1: uh you know they it was certainly one of those 607 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: those companies that have proven its ability to create new titles, 608 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: unlike some other people. UM. So you know that there 609 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: was definitely something there and uh, despite the bidding war, uh, 610 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: and the apparent, according to reports, winner being Zinga. They 611 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: decided to go with e A. Now why did they 612 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: decide to go with e A. That's a matter of 613 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:54,839 Speaker 1: some debate. It's it's sort of unclear. They haven't said specifically, 614 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,160 Speaker 1: but rumors, you know, rumors of course spread when something 615 00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:00,439 Speaker 1: like that happens, and they said, well, you know, maybe 616 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: there's something there, maybe there's some sort of personal conflict, 617 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 1: or maybe they knew something about Zinga, or at any rate, 618 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:14,600 Speaker 1: Zinga in in hit its peak and then dropped. The 619 00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: stock price, dropped, the the adoption rate for the game's dropped. Um. 620 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:25,240 Speaker 1: Things just turned for the worst in every way really 621 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: for Zinga, uh, to the point where I think the 622 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: lowest price so far as of the recording of this 623 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 1: podcast was two dollars and thirty one cents a share. 624 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 1: And now remember it launched at ten dollars a year 625 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,439 Speaker 1: and hit a peak of fourteen dollars and fifty cents 626 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: a share earlier this year. You know, it hasn't even 627 00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: been a whole year since that happened. And as of 628 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,760 Speaker 1: the recording of this podcast, we were recording on October twelve, 629 00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 1: and this morning, before the the market opened, the price 630 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,399 Speaker 1: was at two dollars and forty three cents a share. 631 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: It has dropped since we started recording this podcast to 632 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,480 Speaker 1: two dollars and four two cents a share. Yeah, so 633 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: that's actually up it had it had gone down a 634 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,880 Speaker 1: penny or two below that. Okay, So it's yeah, No, granted, 635 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: moment by moment this value changes, So it's you always 636 00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:13,920 Speaker 1: have to take that with a grain of salt. But 637 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,279 Speaker 1: but I've heard, I've heard a lot of you know, 638 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: I was looking into a lot of projections. I was 639 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,719 Speaker 1: looking to a lot of projections, and most of them 640 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: had the stock price valued at around three dollars for 641 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,799 Speaker 1: the next twelve months or so. Now, granted, it took 642 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:31,720 Speaker 1: less than twelve months for it to go from fourteen 643 00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:36,320 Speaker 1: fifty to one, but you know, that's that's sort of 644 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,919 Speaker 1: the projections by a lot of analysts right now. And 645 00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 1: part of that is because there seems to be a 646 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: decreasing tendency for people to play social games on or 647 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 1: games at all, on social networks. There was a survey 648 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,560 Speaker 1: done in twenty that found that, uh, the fifty six 649 00:38:57,440 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: of students who were surveyed in this study said they 650 00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,479 Speaker 1: planned on playing fewer social games in the next year. 651 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: And uh so that you know, more than half of 652 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:11,480 Speaker 1: the students were saying, I don't think I'm gonna be 653 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 1: playing as much. It's just not for me. That was 654 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: back in So if that trend is more widespread than 655 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 1: just among students, then that would suggest that perhaps, you know, 656 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:26,880 Speaker 1: social gaming was one of those early distractions that was 657 00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,440 Speaker 1: very you know, had a had a big impact when 658 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,960 Speaker 1: it first came out, but it's becoming increasingly difficult to 659 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,960 Speaker 1: replicate that in the social gaming world. That's not to 660 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: say that someone's not gonna come around and create a 661 00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: game that just knocks everybody socks off. It may very 662 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,399 Speaker 1: well happen today or tomorrow or you know, a year 663 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:50,480 Speaker 1: from now. But the trend is a decreasing interest in 664 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 1: social games in the online platform. Um, there's part of 665 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: that might be made up for mobile. I mean, you could, 666 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,400 Speaker 1: you know, if these company are able to really concentrate 667 00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: on the mobile experience, they might be able to recapture 668 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:07,560 Speaker 1: that because mobile is still a very popular platform. In fact, 669 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: it's you know, increasingly popular. So that might be a 670 00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:13,920 Speaker 1: way that Zinga can turn things around. Uh, and there 671 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,200 Speaker 1: are a lot of other ways I mean, I'm not 672 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 1: a I'm not a businessman by any stretch of the imagination. 673 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 1: So while while Zinga's plight looks great indeed to my eyes, 674 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,680 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that Pinkinson team can't turn it around, 675 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,640 Speaker 1: or perhaps, you know, maybe some other company will come 676 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: in and purchase Zinga. I've seen some speculation about Facebook, 677 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 1: although at this point I'm wondering if Facebook would look 678 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:42,440 Speaker 1: at Zinga and say, this looks like it's something that 679 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:48,200 Speaker 1: we would have wanted four years ago, but not now. Yeah. Yeah, Well, 680 00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:51,839 Speaker 1: there's certainly a lot of intellectual property to be had 681 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: right there, which often is under some contention as to 682 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,399 Speaker 1: whether or not that truly blonds Zinga. But yes, go ahead, 683 00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 1: yeah no, And and that's you know that this is 684 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,040 Speaker 1: where we get into that hazy well you know, it's 685 00:41:06,040 --> 00:41:09,719 Speaker 1: a farm game, so you know who you know, is 686 00:41:09,760 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: this sufficiently different enough from that one? Now that that's true? 687 00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:17,120 Speaker 1: But you know, of course there there are some some 688 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,840 Speaker 1: more original titles, and uh, you know, I think I 689 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,799 Speaker 1: think it's possible that um, that may happen. Although you know, 690 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: when I happened to go look at the stock price 691 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: just a moment ago, there is also news again as 692 00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: of the time we're starting this podcast that Mark Pinkis 693 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,040 Speaker 1: is suggesting he wants to take the company private again. 694 00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,799 Speaker 1: So yeah, there were no there was something else. I 695 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:41,920 Speaker 1: didn't mention this when we were talking about it, but 696 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:43,960 Speaker 1: I did. There was another part of that Venture Beat 697 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,840 Speaker 1: article that was kind of interesting about how the company 698 00:41:48,880 --> 00:41:51,560 Speaker 1: had made uh some money back in back in two 699 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,000 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, the revenue for Zinga was around nineteen 700 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: point four million dollars, but because it was a private company, 701 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,480 Speaker 1: it didn't have to release the fact that their cost 702 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,839 Speaker 1: or that their losses amounted to twenty two point one 703 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:08,040 Speaker 1: million for the year, meaning that their costs far outweighed 704 00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 1: their revenue. But it was a private company, so there 705 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:16,400 Speaker 1: was no requirement for them to release that information. But 706 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 1: as a as a publicly traded company, you have to 707 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,080 Speaker 1: do that. So when things are bad, you can't cover 708 00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:25,799 Speaker 1: it up. You know, you can try and obfuscate it 709 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,759 Speaker 1: with language when you're doing your press conference and talk 710 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:31,799 Speaker 1: about the opportunity you have. If you hear the word 711 00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:35,720 Speaker 1: opportunity said a lot, that can sometimes be a red flag. 712 00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's the red flag in every case. 713 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: So if you just recently heard the word opportunity at 714 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:48,360 Speaker 1: your all hands meeting. That does not necessarily mean you 715 00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: need to panic, but it's sometimes one of those little 716 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:55,920 Speaker 1: words that can indicate that there's uh less than positive 717 00:42:55,920 --> 00:43:01,160 Speaker 1: things going on on the business side, UM problems, our opportunities. Well, 718 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 1: you have to think of it that way, right, I 719 00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: mean if you don't. If you don't think of it 720 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,319 Speaker 1: that way, then not only is morale an issue, but 721 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 1: you actually do start to sabotage yourself in turning things around. 722 00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 1: So not to really put down anyone who tries to 723 00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,680 Speaker 1: look at things as opportunities, I actually think that's a 724 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,279 Speaker 1: pretty positive way to go about it, as long as 725 00:43:20,320 --> 00:43:23,920 Speaker 1: you're being genuine, right, I mean if you're being insincere 726 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,839 Speaker 1: in calling it an opportunity, that's a problem. But if 727 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 1: you look at and say, all right, this message that 728 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:33,239 Speaker 1: I'm getting here says we're not doing as good a 729 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,560 Speaker 1: job as we need to. What do we need to 730 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: do to change to do as good a job? There 731 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,760 Speaker 1: been some suggestions that ZINGA should cut costs by perhaps 732 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:48,160 Speaker 1: uh laying off employees and consolidating departments. One of the 733 00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: flip sides to that is if you start cutting costs. 734 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,759 Speaker 1: Then you're also cutting into the resources you have to 735 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,840 Speaker 1: develop new games, so you're actually making it harder on 736 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: yourself to create the product that will help make the 737 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,520 Speaker 1: money that you need to make in order to become 738 00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:07,480 Speaker 1: profitable again or to to turn things around. So it 739 00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,120 Speaker 1: becomes this kind of domino effect, right. You start to 740 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 1: cut costs, you start to lay people off, you start 741 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: to consolidate departments. It becomes harder for you to make 742 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,080 Speaker 1: a good game because it's harder for you to make 743 00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: a good game, fewer people are following you, and so 744 00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:24,360 Speaker 1: it just you know, continues until your company crumbles away. 745 00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:26,400 Speaker 1: So it's a really challenging thing. And I don't have 746 00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:29,160 Speaker 1: all the answers because you know, it's easy to say no, 747 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:34,359 Speaker 1: keep everybody make good stuff. Like yeah, that's that's that's 748 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,120 Speaker 1: the kind of leadership that doesn't get you anywhere. That's 749 00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,520 Speaker 1: that would be my leadership's style, kind like Homer Simpson, 750 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: are you guys working? Yes? Could you work harder? I 751 00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:48,920 Speaker 1: guess so, okay? Do that? That's that's kind of my 752 00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:54,120 Speaker 1: leadership style, which is why I'm a senior writer. All right, then, 753 00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,560 Speaker 1: uh well, I guess that kind of wraps up where 754 00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,800 Speaker 1: Zinga is right now. And again this this is a 755 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,399 Speaker 1: company that's had a real roller coaster story and and 756 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,839 Speaker 1: some of it's a little shady and some of it's 757 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 1: a little uh you know uh on the level of 758 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,239 Speaker 1: of could this be creating it yet another bubble within 759 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,160 Speaker 1: the tech industry? Um, it's business. It's business. Yeah, and 760 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,760 Speaker 1: and it just like any other business venture, you cannot 761 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:24,040 Speaker 1: count out a company until it's gone. And even then 762 00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,360 Speaker 1: sometimes they come back. But so Zinga may turn things around, 763 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: They might find the secret sauce needed to really get 764 00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,919 Speaker 1: people invested in the company, both figuratively and literally. And uh, 765 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,279 Speaker 1: you know, maybe it will happen, but it could very 766 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,840 Speaker 1: well be that this might serve just as a warning 767 00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:44,239 Speaker 1: to other people who want to launch their own companies. 768 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 1: You can see some really uh great success early on 769 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,920 Speaker 1: if you're doing you know, if you're hitting all the 770 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:56,400 Speaker 1: right beats. But sometimes that that's short term success and 771 00:45:56,440 --> 00:46:01,760 Speaker 1: it will come at the cost of a long term success. Yes. Um, 772 00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:04,400 Speaker 1: well we'll wrap that up here. If you have guys, 773 00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: have any suggestions for future episodes of tech Stuff, why 774 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,759 Speaker 1: don't you send us a little note. You can do 775 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,560 Speaker 1: that via email. Are address as tech stuff at Discovery 776 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,719 Speaker 1: dot com, or send us a message on Facebook our Twitter. 777 00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: You can find us there with the handle text stuff 778 00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:24,000 Speaker 1: hs W and Chris and I will talk to you 779 00:46:24,040 --> 00:46:28,360 Speaker 1: again really soon. For more on this and thousands of 780 00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:34,640 Speaker 1: other topics, is it how stuff works dot com