1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 2: Brian Coburger to sue whoa whoa whoa. Brian Coburger is 3 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 2: suing somebody for money after he's convicted of. 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: Murdering four people. 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 2: He's suing, and tonight there is a growing sentiment, not 6 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 2: by me, but by them that Coburger did not act alone. 7 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 2: This as even in the last hours, Brian Coburger is 8 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: demanding he be moved to better accommodations. You're not getting 9 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 2: the penthouse, sweet Coburger, that's not going to happen. Enjoy 10 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 2: your gruel. I'm Nancy Grease. This is Crime Stories. 11 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:50,960 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for being with us. 12 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 3: You may have received a's in high school and college, 13 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 3: but you're going to be getting big d's in prison. 14 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: Brian at being Coburger, he is whining, I wish for 15 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 2: the items to be called for when this is something 16 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 2: something the nutritional standards are not being upheld, but I 17 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: don't care. It's like, don't care if he doesn't like broccoli, 18 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 2: get used to it. Oh rhetoric Aside regarding Brian Coburger. 19 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 2: In the last hours, Killa Gorin saws his family posted 20 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:33,920 Speaker 2: and it is heart wrenching and I want you to 21 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:34,400 Speaker 2: see it. 22 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 3: So I'm going through some of Kaylee's things and. 23 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: I just came across just. 24 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 3: Sweatshirt that she was wearing at night, and in the pocket. 25 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: Is your grub truck number seventy eight. 26 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 4: Ticket. 27 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 3: I've been looking for it. It's the first thing that 28 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 3: I really found that I've been looking for. 29 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: It was in the top of a box. 30 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,519 Speaker 5: And then when. 31 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,760 Speaker 3: I looked in the pocket and I found that ticket, 32 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 3: just takes you back to those hours, those hours right 33 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 3: before I had no idea what was going to happen 34 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 3: to them. 35 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 2: Terrible That is Kelly Gonsaws, his mother Christie, who has 36 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 2: joined us so many many nights. I see holding and 37 00:02:54,480 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 2: smelling the sweatshirt yelliguinsolvice. And I gotta tell you something, 38 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 2: when my daughter hugs me, it's it's not perfumed. She 39 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: just smells good. She smells like the outdoors kind of 40 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 2: and fresh air, sun and everything good. Just watching this, 41 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: I don't even hear her right now. It just makes 42 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 2: my stomach hurt. And it takes me back to some 43 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: probitive evidence that could have been used at trial if 44 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 2: the prosecutor had any backbone. Of the Idaho students at 45 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 2: that grub hub. 46 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: Look. 47 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: Look they're going out right now, grub truck number seventy 48 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: eight ticket. There they are, and they're having so much fun. 49 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: Is super late at night and they're just living life, 50 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: you know, just having so much fun. 51 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 4: With me. 52 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: Is Chris McDonough. 53 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: He is the star over at the Cold Case Foundation. 54 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: He is a former homicide detective who has worked over 55 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 2: three hundred homicide cases. 56 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: He is the star of. 57 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 2: The interview room on the YouTube channel where I found him. 58 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: But for my purposes tonight, he has walked every square 59 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 2: inch all around that King Road address to where the 60 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 2: trucks were, the food trucks. And Chris seeing Christy Gonsalves 61 00:04:55,640 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 2: holding Kelley's sweatshirt, I just feel broken in half, broken 62 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 2: in half, Chris. 63 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 6: You Nancy. This brings back so much, so many memories 64 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 6: for many parents who have lost children, myself included. And 65 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:21,719 Speaker 6: the fact that she is embracing that sweatshirt just to 66 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 6: smell her daughter gives us an understanding of a depth 67 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 6: of pain that nobody should ever experience. And then when 68 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 6: I shift into out from a personal experience to an 69 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 6: investigator's hat and she pulls out of the pocket the 70 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 6: grub hub receipt on that receipt as a time and 71 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 6: why that receipt was not in evidence for me anyway 72 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 6: as an investigator, again shows potentially some shortcomings with the 73 00:05:57,320 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 6: totality of this investigation. 74 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: I was wondering, Chris McDonald, when you were going to 75 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: bring that up. 76 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 2: When I found out the receipt from that night, which 77 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,599 Speaker 2: is part of the timeline, was steal in her pocket, 78 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 2: I nearly fell over. But I want to show you 79 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 2: something I carry around a lot of times, and we've 80 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: been multi wall trying to help our friend Savannah Guthrie. 81 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 2: And these are my dad's shirts. Sometimes they just carry 82 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 2: him around. Sometimes I sleep in them. It just kind 83 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 2: of depends. And I can just feel when Christi Gunsolves 84 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: is talking about her daughter, just that empty moment when 85 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 2: the trial or in this case, the cheap plea is 86 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 2: over and everybody leaves and nobody's talking about it anymore, 87 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 2: and nobody cares anymore, and there you are with that sweatshirt. 88 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: Just the silence is deafening for this family. 89 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 6: Yes, and and it doesn't get any better, right, Nancy, 90 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 6: You know from personal experience of loss, they now have 91 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 6: to learn the coping mechanisms to get them through the 92 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 6: next birthday, the next you know item that they pull 93 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 6: out of a box that was handed to them from 94 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:33,560 Speaker 6: the authorities, and everything turns into the next uh, you know, 95 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,679 Speaker 6: piece of where is my child? But there will never 96 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:43,760 Speaker 6: ever be that personal hug that that mom, I love you, Dad, 97 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 6: I love you hearing it. It's over and so you 98 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 6: learn how to cope with it. But they're really that's 99 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 6: as far as you can go as a parent, as 100 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 6: a as a you know, in your circumstances, your fiance, 101 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 6: you just have to empower yourself and then put it 102 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 6: towards a positive end and hopefully great things will come 103 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 6: out of it. 104 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 2: Tonight, a let me say unique theory as far as 105 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: I'm concerned regarding the murders of four beautiful University Idaho students. 106 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: And in the backdrop of that analytical discussion, is Coburger 107 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 2: preparing himself to sue? 108 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: Really, what does he want nine ten million dollars over what? 109 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 2: But tonight did Coburger act alone? Correct me if I'm wrong, 110 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 2: But I think he's the only one that got in 111 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 2: court played guilty. 112 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: He's the only one that was prosecuted. 113 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 2: But now a growing tide of legal Eagles insist Coburger did. 114 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: Not act alone. 115 00:08:57,480 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: I poo pooed it when I would see it on 116 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: Twitter and Insta, in Facebook, I would discount it. But 117 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 2: for some reason there is a legion of legal eagles 118 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 2: that say, yes, he had an accomplice. But I want 119 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 2: you to see Lieutenant Darren Gilbertson with Idaho State Police 120 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 2: as he approached. 121 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 7: Coburger, I feel like you probably know why we're here. 122 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 7: We're detectives from Idaho and we're here because of the 123 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 7: case in Moscow. 124 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 4: And as soon as. 125 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 7: We mentioned that, then he stopped and he said, I 126 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 7: don't want to talk anymore. 127 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: For our friends at ABC. 128 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 2: That is Lieutenant Darren Gilbertson describing what happened when he 129 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 2: first approached Coburger following the murders. The moment he identified 130 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: himself as from Idaho. I am from the Idaho State Police, 131 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 2: Coburger immediately said, I don't want to talk. 132 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk. 133 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: So Philip Dubay joining me, veteran trial lawyer out of 134 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 2: LA County. Philip, you know, when a cop asked me 135 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 2: a question, I respond, I don't call my lawyer in 136 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:04,679 Speaker 2: why depends? 137 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 8: I mean most people ask for a lawyer if they 138 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 8: feel whatever they're going to say is going to incriminate themselves, 139 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 8: even if you believe that getting the truth off your 140 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 8: chest might help you. In fact, prosecutors can use whatever 141 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 8: you're saying to Taylor guilt based on their narrative of 142 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 8: what happened. So rather than say anything, you should remain 143 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 8: quiet and silent to keep all your options open so 144 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 8: that you can review all the evidence in its totality 145 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 8: and decide what, if anything, you should say at trial 146 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 8: on the witness stand. But not to cops. 147 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 2: Well, but when I say a cop approach, I don't 148 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 2: hit the gas and take off one hundred and ten 149 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 2: MP eight, I don't try to get away, I don't 150 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 2: try to avoid the questions, and I certainly don't worry 151 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 2: about a potential jury trial. 152 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: So you know, I'm taking everything you say with a 153 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: box of salt filled. 154 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 2: Now, the theory that Brian Coburger did not act alone. 155 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 9: What Before Coburger removed from his parents' all Brightsville, Pennsylvania home, 156 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:14,480 Speaker 9: he asks officers a single question, was anyone else arrested? 157 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 9: Though many believe Coburger asked out of concern for his 158 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 9: family After the late night Raid. Bloom believes Coburger wanted 159 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 9: to know if his accomplice was already in custody. 160 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 161 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 2: Leading the throng of legal eagles that insist Coburger did 162 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:51,079 Speaker 2: not act alone, is renowned author Howard Bloom. He wrote 163 00:11:51,120 --> 00:11:55,200 Speaker 2: the definitive book on the Idaho murders, When the Night 164 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 2: Comes Falling, a Requiem for the Idaho Student Murders. 165 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: Howard, explain yourself. 166 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 10: Well, first, let me offer a caveat to what you 167 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 10: just said. 168 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 4: I'm not saying he acted alone. 169 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 10: I'm saying the theory deserves attention, and it deserves attention 170 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 10: after all the documents we've seen in recent days, which 171 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 10: include an analysis of what happened by the defense's own witness, 172 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,960 Speaker 10: doctor Brent Turvey. He raises many of the questions that 173 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 10: I came about independently. If you look at the devastation, 174 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 10: this wasn't just a stabbing, This was a massacre. The 175 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 10: four students were stabbed over one hundred and fifty times 176 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 10: in totality. I mean, try raising your hand one hundred 177 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 10: and fifty times, and this happens, the police say within 178 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 10: a thirteen. 179 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 2: Min hol On, hold on, hold on, can I see 180 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 2: the photo Brian Coburger thinking he looks all buff showing 181 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: off all of his muscles. This guy worked out all 182 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 2: the time and was constantly flexing himself. So you're telling me, oh, 183 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,960 Speaker 2: dear Lord in Heaven, I asked for it. 184 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:10,559 Speaker 4: A skinny kid, but whatever. 185 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:14,679 Speaker 2: So you don't see those muscles on his He's got 186 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,560 Speaker 2: some guns going on right there. So you're telling me 187 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: you're basing your theory on the fact that he's too 188 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 2: skinny and scrawny to raise his arm one hundred and 189 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: fifty times. 190 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to do that. 191 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 10: I'm not saying that for an hour all the time 192 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 10: and two floors of the house in the darkness. And 193 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 10: also both the prosecution and defense have said that there 194 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 10: is a possibility that another weapon was used, that were 195 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 10: Kelly received wounds from another weapon, that there was also 196 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 10: are both agree that there is a possibility that they 197 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 10: were staging, that the victims were covered up with a 198 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 10: comforter and they moved them around. 199 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:56,719 Speaker 4: That also that. 200 00:13:56,720 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 10: There was a cleanup afterwards, but the prosecution is not 201 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 10: denying that that's a possibility too. 202 00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 4: I think all these elements as. 203 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 10: That are laid out by the defense statements raise questions that. 204 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 4: Need to be looked at. 205 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,080 Speaker 10: I think we're seeing things when we look at the 206 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 10: new evidence when released. 207 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:18,599 Speaker 4: That really don't fit into the timeline. 208 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 2: You know, I really believe Susan Hendricks, who's joining us, 209 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 2: a journalist, investigative reporter, author of Down the Hill, might 210 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 2: descend into the double murder in del Phi. 211 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,520 Speaker 1: Susan, maybe a UFO. 212 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 2: Flew over and little Green men transported down into the 213 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: King Road address and murdered them along with Coburger. Maybe 214 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: that happened. Is it possible, Yes, possible. Is it probable? No, 215 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 2: it's not probable. You know, Howard Bloom is renowned as 216 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 2: an investigative journalist, as an author, but I think he's 217 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 2: way off, and I think that somehow the this alternate 218 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 2: suspect theory got planted in his head by Coburger's defense. 219 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: I mean, other than him saying. 220 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: He couldn't raise his arm one hundred and fifty times. 221 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 2: I've raised my arm thirty five times while he was talking. 222 00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: Okay, so no saying was there a cleanup? 223 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: Well, based on the crime scene photos that I saw 224 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 2: that I refuse to publish because of their gory nature. 225 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 2: Out of respect to the victims' families. I didn't see 226 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 2: much of a cleanup going on. I think he's been 227 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 2: infected by the defense bug. 228 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 4: Yeah. 229 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 11: I go back to the Odinis theory, Nancy, when you 230 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 11: can argue anything in public, online, but in court, and 231 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 11: of course the expert witness of the defense, it's going 232 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 11: to be in there that yes, there could be a 233 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 11: second person, a co worker. He studied serial killers, so 234 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 11: he may have thought about this four months, maybe even years. 235 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 11: What he's going to say, was anyone else arrested? I 236 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 11: believe he acted alone. Yes, Sir was bloodsheded terrific considering 237 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 11: the amount of times he stabbed people. But I believe 238 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 11: the prosecution would approve that that it is doable by 239 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 11: one person. 240 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: Said straight out to special guests joining us, Chris McDonough, 241 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 2: homicide detective, former homicide detective. What do you make of 242 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 2: the theory that Bloom is asserting that Coburger had an accomplice, 243 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: or maybe Kiberger was accompliced, not the purp in chief. 244 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 6: Well, I think the first thing that needs of his 245 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 6: consideration is the defense is going to hire experts that 246 00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 6: are going to say what they want them to say, 247 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 6: and they're going to create that, you know, those theories 248 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 6: that those roads are going to run down. However, I've 249 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 6: examined all of the photographs that are available, and I've 250 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,360 Speaker 6: come to my own conclusions that based on you know, 251 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:53,680 Speaker 6: some of the evidence that we can see is Coberger 252 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 6: acted alone, and there's a whole bunch of reasons behind that. 253 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 6: I believe he straddled both of those girls who were intoxicated, 254 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 6: sound asleep in the bed, and he blitz greened and 255 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 6: attacked them. And we used to have a terminology that 256 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,760 Speaker 6: said the knife went on full auto okay because of 257 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 6: the rage. And then when you take that into Coberger's 258 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 6: personality type, he sees people like bugs. He does not 259 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 6: see them with empathy or anything like that. And then 260 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,640 Speaker 6: while he was killing both of those girls, who were 261 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 6: struggling and fighting backwards, I either were kicking from underneath 262 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 6: the blankets. The blood evidence showed that I believe at 263 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 6: that point his sheath became dislodged from wherever it was 264 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:48,120 Speaker 6: and because Xanna had come in come into the room. 265 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 6: When Xanna got in the room, he chased her into 266 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 6: her room, and the blood evidence showed because there's blood 267 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 6: on the doorway going into the room. 268 00:17:59,280 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 4: I believe he. 269 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 6: Caught her, stabbed her, and she fell against the wall 270 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 6: between the bed and the night stand. And it was 271 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,960 Speaker 6: at that point Ethan woke up on his right elbow, 272 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 6: leaned forward, and Coburger gave him a quick coup de gral. 273 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:21,640 Speaker 6: Ethan was out probably within six or seven seconds, even 274 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 6: also trying to kick, and Xana began to fight, and 275 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 6: that's where he straddled her on the ground against her chair, 276 00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 6: where she was subsequently found. And that was brutal. So 277 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,919 Speaker 6: two people doing this, the I personally do not believe 278 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 6: the evidence showed that. 279 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:45,560 Speaker 1: Okay, now let me understand this. 280 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 2: This all tipped off, started ignited in your mind, Howard Bloom, 281 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 2: author of When the Night Comes Falling, Because at the 282 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 2: time of arrest, Kyberger said, who else was arrested? 283 00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: That's what got you going? 284 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 4: No, not at all. 285 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 10: What got me going was where the crime scene photographs, 286 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 10: the discussion of a cleanup, the discussion of the number 287 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 10: of wounds, the Bill Thompson talking about his second weapon, 288 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 10: and are still trying to grapple with the question. 289 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 4: Of a motive. Why would he have picked that house? 290 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 10: The defense still wonders why the prosecution was going to say, well, 291 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 10: he just picked it at random. Well, nothing Coburger did 292 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 10: that night seems in random. Iss He had planned the event, 293 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 10: he had turned off his phone, he had obviously brought 294 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 10: some clean up materials. Either way, he's wearing baggies or 295 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 10: a suit to cover the blood. 296 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 4: And yet he picks a house. 297 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 10: Where there are a number of cars, I think it's 298 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 10: five cars parked in front, there's a door dash delivery. 299 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 4: Why does he go there? Why does he go up 300 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 4: to the third floor. 301 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,399 Speaker 10: I think there was a motive involved, and the motive 302 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 10: involved someone else, And as you said before, maybe Coburger 303 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 10: was the pomplish Maybe he was helping someone who had 304 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 10: a genuine motive commit the perfect crime. 305 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 2: To doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renown psychoanalyst out of 306 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: the LA jurisdiction. 307 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: She's the author of deal Breaker. You can see her now. 308 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,960 Speaker 2: On Peacock and you can find her at doctor Bethany 309 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 2: Marshall dot com. 310 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, I find. 311 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 2: It very very difficult to believe that anyone would go 312 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 2: along with Brian Coburger's Zeny theory to go murder horribly, horribly, 313 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: horrifically murder for innocent students. He didn't even know. Who 314 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,679 Speaker 2: is he going to rope into that scheme. Let's just 315 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 2: think about that for a moment. 316 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 5: You know, Nancy, he wanted the glory all for himself, right, 317 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 5: Why would he share the moment of victory with another person? 318 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 5: I mean, as I've said so many times on your show, 319 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 5: he wanted to triumph over and dominate these beautiful young 320 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 5: students who were having the kind of life he could 321 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:03,640 Speaker 5: never hope to have. Right, he had to blot them 322 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 5: out of existence because he could never achieve what they achieved. 323 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 5: He wanted to insert himself into their lives and they 324 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,760 Speaker 5: probably didn't even have the time of day for him. 325 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 5: I mean metaphorically, It's not like he really maybe contacted them, 326 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 5: or maybe he did on social media and they didn't 327 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 5: get back. So why would he want to bring in 328 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 5: another co conspirator to blot out their lives when that 329 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 5: was his biggest achievement in his own life. It doesn't make. 330 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: Sense crime stories with Nancy Grace. 331 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 7: I feel like you probably know why we're here. We're 332 00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,840 Speaker 7: detectives from Idaho, and we're here because of the case 333 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,680 Speaker 7: in Moscow. And as soon as we mentioned that. Then 334 00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 7: he stopped and he said, I don't want to talk anymore. 335 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:00,879 Speaker 1: From ABC. 336 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 2: He slaughtered them. I don't care why he did it. 337 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 2: I don't care about his motive. They're never coming home 338 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 2: and they died a horrible death. 339 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 6: And what Brian's about to understand is that his virginity 340 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 6: is being traded for half a cigarette and that his 341 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:18,639 Speaker 6: mother had better pack some momissary orders so that he 342 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 6: has items to trade. 343 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 2: Author Howard Bloom insisting tonight Brian Coburger did not act alone. 344 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 2: But I'd like to direct everyone's attention to what Dylan Mortensen, 345 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:34,920 Speaker 2: who survived Coburger's murder rampage, what she. 346 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,600 Speaker 1: Said about the attacker listen. 347 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 4: And then ultimately her looking up. 348 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 6: I heard her scream and she ran downstairs because she 349 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 6: saw someone. 350 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: But I'm pretty sure she. 351 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 4: Said she one's here, and she's screamed. 352 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 1: And just randomn series and I called for a name. 353 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,400 Speaker 1: They jump up and lock my do work. 354 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 12: So I'm so scared. 355 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:58,560 Speaker 9: And I heard someone in the bathroom. 356 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: When I heard her cry, I heard You're gonna be okay. 357 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,560 Speaker 2: To help you. Susan Hendrix correct me if I'm wrong, 358 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 2: But doesn't she describe one assailant. 359 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: She does. 360 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,639 Speaker 11: She describes someone dressed in black, pretty tall, described him 361 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,399 Speaker 11: as a basketball player, physique with bushy eyebrass. 362 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 2: Just one Sidney Summer joining me Crime Stories investigative reporter. 363 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 2: I want to reiterate what Dylan Mortensen said that night, 364 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,440 Speaker 2: and I want to make sure Howard Bloom and Philip 365 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:38,400 Speaker 2: Dubay's airpaces are working. Sidney Sumner. What was said at 366 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,280 Speaker 2: the time by Dylan Mortenson. 367 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 12: Mortenson described hearing and seeing a man walking around in 368 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 12: her home. She at some point, here's one of her 369 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 12: roommates say someone's here, and then she overhears a male 370 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 12: voice saying, I'm going to help you. At this point, 371 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 12: she steps out of her room trying to unders what's 372 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 12: going on, and she sees this man walk past her, 373 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,879 Speaker 12: and she describes him as wearing all black in a 374 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,399 Speaker 12: mask that shows just his eyes. And she speaks with 375 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 12: the officer, trying to give a rough description of this 376 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,960 Speaker 12: man taller than her lanky. That's who she sees in 377 00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 12: her home. There's no mention of the second person. 378 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 2: Philip Debay, veteran trial lawyer, defense attorney. I mean, Philipdbay, 379 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 2: this is what you did for a living, you find 380 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,240 Speaker 2: somebody else to blame. 381 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 8: There is absolutely no way that this one scrawny man 382 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 8: can take down four people merely because he has a knife. 383 00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 8: Look at him. At a minimum, one person probably could 384 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 8: have knocked him down, maybe somehow rested the knife away 385 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 8: from him, kicked him, punched him, held him, and prevented 386 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 8: all that carnage. So obviously he had a confederate unseen 387 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 8: dale Mount because he knew that they were going to 388 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 8: be met by multiple people in that house. I mean, 389 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 8: let's face it, this is a reputed party house and 390 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,560 Speaker 8: there's going to be at least four or five people 391 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 8: living there, and you have to be prepared. So what 392 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,199 Speaker 8: do you do. You bring a co confederate with you 393 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 8: to get the job done. And I think the reason 394 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 8: why we haven't heard from that co confederate, if you will, 395 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 8: is because that person is likely a fifth victim. As 396 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 8: dead men tell no tale. 397 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,080 Speaker 1: Okay, wait, please put him up. 398 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 2: So now not only is there another co defendant, but 399 00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 2: that co defendant is. 400 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 1: Dead, killed by Brian Coburgner. But we just haven't found 401 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 1: his body yet. 402 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 2: So you're really taking this all there running with it. 403 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: So you think, okay, you know, can we deal with reality. 404 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: Let me go to doctor Kendall Crown's joining US Chief 405 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,359 Speaker 2: Medical Examiner Terran County. 406 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: That's Fort Worth. 407 00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 2: Never a lack of business in the Morgue there. He 408 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 2: is an estate lecturer at the School of Medicine at TCU, 409 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 2: and he's a star of a hit podcast, Mayhem and 410 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 2: the Morgue. 411 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns. 412 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:11,479 Speaker 2: With this number of wounds, okay, one hundred and fifty 413 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,240 Speaker 2: all in, we think because as you've told me many times, 414 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,840 Speaker 2: knife wounds can overlap on a victim to the point 415 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 2: where it's like stabbing jello. 416 00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,919 Speaker 1: You can't really tell how many times it's been stabbed. 417 00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 4: Due to the. 418 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 2: Moveable nature of human flesh, how could you possibly. 419 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:38,440 Speaker 1: Tell that more than one weapon was used. 420 00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:42,359 Speaker 13: So with the stab wounds, sometimes you can tell that 421 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 13: if it's a single edge or a double edge, you 422 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 13: can get an idea of different type of knives being used. 423 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 13: But the problem with stab wounds is they can look 424 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,680 Speaker 13: very similar, so different knives may leave the same injuries. Now, 425 00:26:56,720 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 13: with the description of the individuals that are killed, one 426 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,720 Speaker 13: of them has been possibly strangled and had her head 427 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 13: kind of smashed in hit several times in the head 428 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:10,199 Speaker 13: fractures of skull that could have been done with a 429 00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 13: k bar knife. The handle of the k bar knife 430 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 13: is actually quite thick, and he could have used the 431 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,200 Speaker 13: actual knife that he was stabbing them with to also 432 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 13: beat them as well as he was stabbing them. So 433 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,919 Speaker 13: to me, I think all those wounds could have happened 434 00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 13: in a very short period of time. It's fairly easy 435 00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 13: to stab someone and then he can be switching up 436 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 13: hitting them with his fists, hitting them with the handle 437 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 13: of the knife as well. Giving the blunt force injuries 438 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,879 Speaker 13: that's described on one of the victims. I think that 439 00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 13: it's easily you could have him shifting up how he 440 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 13: is stabbing and hitting them, and then it's easily done 441 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 13: by one person, could have be done by two people 442 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,080 Speaker 13: with different weapons. Stabloms are a little hard to differentiate 443 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 13: as far as types of weapons. 444 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 2: So back to you, Howard Bloom. I've yet to get 445 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:04,119 Speaker 2: to the DNA issue. And the only fact that is 446 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 2: somewhat disturbing to me is I think the prosecutor was 447 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 2: just so happy to just wrap this up with a 448 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 2: bow and get rid of the case. That's disturbing to me, 449 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:19,440 Speaker 2: and the thought that there could be a second assailant. 450 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 2: He just doesn't want to be bothered with that. I 451 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 2: do not want an assailant walking free. I want Coburger 452 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 2: to go down, but if he had help, I want 453 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 2: that person behind bars for the rest of their life 454 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:39,800 Speaker 2: or the death penalty. That said, nothing has convinced me 455 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 2: at all that there are two assailants. 456 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: Why is it beyond the realm. 457 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 2: Of possibility that Coburger did use two weapons. 458 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 10: The idea that he carried two weapons in seems to 459 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,880 Speaker 10: me a bit absurd, But also the whole two weapon 460 00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 10: theory that's not mine, that's built time Umson, the prosecutor 461 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,080 Speaker 10: in the case, said, there's a very good possibility that 462 00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 10: two weapons were used. Two weapons to me, one hundred 463 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:13,680 Speaker 10: and fifty knife wounds. That leads to there being two suspects. Also, 464 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,840 Speaker 10: staging of the bodies, cleaning up afterwards, the lack of 465 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 10: any sort of motive. 466 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 4: All these pieces come together. 467 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,880 Speaker 10: Not to say that there was another accomplice, but that 468 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,719 Speaker 10: raises the possibility that needs to be explored. 469 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,920 Speaker 4: Also, as you pointed out quite clearly. 470 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 10: And there was a rush to judgment in this case, 471 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,480 Speaker 10: everyone involved one this whole case to disappear. They couldn't 472 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,680 Speaker 10: wait to tear down the house. They couldn't wait to 473 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 10: settle the case. Let's try to get some real answers. 474 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:48,640 Speaker 10: Even they accepted the settlement without having any kind of allocution, 475 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 10: trying to get the answers to where the knife is 476 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 10: at least, I say their mysteries that still exist there. 477 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,239 Speaker 10: And I think we owe responsibility to the victims and 478 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 10: to the tax payer is of Idaho who funded this investigation 479 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 10: to try to get to the bottom of things. 480 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 12: Trying on the location of the emergency something he's talking 481 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 12: talking to you don't know. 482 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:20,440 Speaker 2: What what is there of the emergency? 483 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,560 Speaker 5: What is the rest of the address? 484 00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 12: Oh, Kings Road? 485 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 13: Okay, And there's a house or an apartment. 486 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,719 Speaker 2: It's the house. Can you repeat the address to make 487 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 2: sure that I. 488 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:33,680 Speaker 4: Have it right. 489 00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 12: I'll talk to you guys. We're we have a delight 490 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:39,000 Speaker 12: over next to them. 491 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 2: This guy who's slaughter who ripped apart four beautiful co eds, 492 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:50,080 Speaker 2: ripped them apart with a military ta bar. Not that 493 00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 2: guy is whining about his broccoli and the other inmates. 494 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 6: Here's a call coming in, Brian. 495 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:57,960 Speaker 4: This is not a hotel. 496 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:02,680 Speaker 2: One thing we have to address in this theory that 497 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 2: Brian Coburger did not act alone. I don't buy it. 498 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,560 Speaker 2: Nothing has convinced me otherwise yet. But believe me, if 499 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 2: there is another assailant, I want them behind bars. 500 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: That is why I feel that we have to examine it. 501 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 2: Does it amount to anything, maybe not, but still we 502 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 2: have to examine it. I want to talk about not 503 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:31,479 Speaker 2: only the one hundred and fifty stab wounds and Howard 504 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 2: Blooms assertion one person could not do that. 505 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,360 Speaker 1: I mean, wait just a minute, Susan Hendricks. 506 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 2: Don't you recall the case of a female murdering a 507 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,640 Speaker 2: male with one hundred plus stab wounds during some crazy 508 00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 2: sex play remember that? Oh? 509 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 11: Yes, yes, I believe it is possible here and clearly 510 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 11: we've seen it in other cases as well. And by 511 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 11: the way, the two weapons, I think it was the 512 00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 11: back of the knife and the bleed. I think that's 513 00:31:59,160 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 11: what the. 514 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 1: Prospcutor what do you mean with Kaylee? 515 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 11: She had some injuries that may have been she was 516 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 11: injured by the back of the knife toward in her 517 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:12,920 Speaker 11: facial area and her team. 518 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,959 Speaker 2: That explains a lot, okay, Doctor Kendall Crown's hearing Susan 519 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 2: Hendrick's explanation. The back or the hilt of the knife 520 00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 2: being used. Would that make a difference in your analysis 521 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:26,320 Speaker 2: at all? 522 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 13: So, the back of the hilt of the knife being used, 523 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 13: to me, it could go along with the injuries you're 524 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 13: seeing the Blunchfort's injuries, and also it could be the 525 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 13: knife being driven in all the way to the hilt 526 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,360 Speaker 13: being a very deep stab wound leaving injuries as well. 527 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 13: So to me, it just all goes along with the 528 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 13: fact that it's a single individual causing all these wounds. 529 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 13: They just switch up what they're doing with their one weapon. 530 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,520 Speaker 2: You know, I believe her name was Bryn Spetcher, Susan Hendrix, 531 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:02,400 Speaker 2: who was convicted stabbing her boyfriend over one hundred times. 532 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 2: And then of course there's Jody Arius who stabbed Travis 533 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,240 Speaker 2: Alexander thirty plus times and didn't have a problem with 534 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 2: it at all. But for some reason, Howard Bloom, you 535 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 2: seem to think that while these two women could perform 536 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 2: could murder with an ie stabbing over and over and over, 537 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 2: you don't think Coburger could do it. 538 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:28,440 Speaker 10: Well, you're in the cases you're talking about involves just 539 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 10: one victim. Here we're talking about four different victims on 540 00:33:32,440 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 10: two floors. Of the house in darkness, and we know 541 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,200 Speaker 10: that at least two of them fought back, and the 542 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 10: prosecution itself has raised the possibility of a second weapon. 543 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 10: All these pieces come together, I think, to raise the 544 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 10: possibility that there might well have been another assailant. Edit 545 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 10: on to the motive, edit on to Coburger's statement, was 546 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 10: anyone else arrested? 547 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 4: It raises a lot of doubts. 548 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,960 Speaker 10: And to use Dylan Mortons as a witness, well, her 549 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 10: testimony has been very mercurial, has changed throughout the many 550 00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 10: interviews she's given with the police. I mean, I feel 551 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 10: for her. She's a victim in all this, but at 552 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 10: the same time, she is not the most reliable witness. 553 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:21,920 Speaker 2: Put him up, Howard Bloom, You've got a nerve saying 554 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,400 Speaker 2: Dylan Mortenson was not a reliable witness. 555 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: Sheiling. 556 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 10: She says she saw one assailant. She says she saw 557 00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 10: one man in black. At one point she said he 558 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 10: was carrying a vacuum, and another point she said, I 559 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 10: was really too drunk to figure out what's happening. And 560 00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:46,200 Speaker 10: your reliable witness just also happened to wait eight hours, 561 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,879 Speaker 10: eight hours before calling the police, and then she thought 562 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:50,839 Speaker 10: they were unconscious. 563 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 4: Other time she says she saw blood. So that is 564 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:56,640 Speaker 4: your reliable witness. 565 00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,080 Speaker 2: Okay, straight back to you, christ May Donna, could if 566 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 2: you shed some light on the theory that there were 567 00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 2: two assailants now that you've heard where bloom is coming from. 568 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 6: Sure, that's one of the questions that's not being asked 569 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:16,000 Speaker 6: is what's in Brian Coburger system. That evening, one of 570 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 6: the last homicides I worked was a single individual that 571 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 6: had slaughtered some folks and the knife went on folato. 572 00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:30,600 Speaker 6: There were hundreds of stab wounds and as the doc 573 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 6: has shed and as Susan was reported that that knife 574 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 6: that cave our knife, the back of the hilt of 575 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 6: that knife, I believe was utilizing the blood. Evidence shows 576 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 6: it on Kayley excessively as well as Xana excessively. And 577 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 6: that's probably the two weapon theory here. What we're not 578 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:56,640 Speaker 6: asking though, is what was going on in Brian Coburger system. 579 00:35:57,000 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 6: We know what the toxicology results are for the victims. 580 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:06,319 Speaker 6: They were incapacitated, they were sleeping. But Brian Coolberger in 581 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 6: that eight hour time that was just brought up, came 582 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:14,760 Speaker 6: back to the scene to see his work that morning. 583 00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 6: You know, and if in fact this was a two 584 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 6: perpetrator problem, whether or not the sharpest tools in the 585 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 6: shed because somebody came up with the idea of leaving 586 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 6: the knife sheet there. 587 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,520 Speaker 2: So not just one idiot but two. Yeah, that's kind 588 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 2: of hard to take in. So, Howard Bloom, you also 589 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 2: point out DNA on the stairwell and on a glove. 590 00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 2: I believe that Chris mcgunne spotted the glove that I 591 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 2: at the time out in the parking lot, and I 592 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,680 Speaker 2: believe Chris you're the one that showed it to police. 593 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,760 Speaker 2: So I guess, Horrod Bloom, you're using that as fodder 594 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 2: for your two perp theory. 595 00:36:58,239 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: The DNA. 596 00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 10: No, I'm raising the question, why wasn't that DNA analyzed? 597 00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 10: Why wasn't the prosecution and the Idaho State Police going 598 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 10: through the trouble really just taking the time to put 599 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,399 Speaker 10: this through the DNA file try to find out who 600 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 10: it belonged to. It seems that when you don't want 601 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 10: to know the answers to questions, they didn't ask them. 602 00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 1: This isn't Hendricks. 603 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 2: Isn't it true that the state tried to get a 604 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:32,160 Speaker 2: DNA match on that spec of DNA and regarding the handrail. 605 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: That could have been anybody. 606 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:35,520 Speaker 2: This was a party house that was in and out 607 00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 2: of the house. But didn't they try to get a 608 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:38,720 Speaker 2: DNA match? 609 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:42,280 Speaker 11: Yes, and I always go back I note to Delphi 610 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 11: because I know so much about that case. But there 611 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 11: was some DNA of unknown people on the girl's clothes, 612 00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 11: meaning if you're around anyone, it could show. As you've said, 613 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 11: it was a party house, it could have been someone 614 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 11: in that homes. 615 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, look at the grub hub truck. They're 616 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:06,560 Speaker 2: hugging people and talking to people. That's very, very easy 617 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:12,040 Speaker 2: to transfer DNA right there. So my point is Howard 618 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:13,919 Speaker 2: Bloom said, why didn't they try to find out? 619 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:16,160 Speaker 1: They did try to find out, didn't. 620 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 11: They bolutely did, and they settled. The defense is now 621 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 11: trying to try it in the court of public opinion. 622 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 11: And I will say online the people who believed there 623 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 11: was someone else there really believe it, and they're sticking 624 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 11: with it no matter what the event. 625 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,400 Speaker 13: Tell me exactly what's going on. 626 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 12: One of our one of the roommatesh's passed out and 627 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 12: she's drung glass and. 628 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,719 Speaker 1: Sht wake me up. Oh and they saw some man 629 00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:44,720 Speaker 1: in their house out site. 630 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:45,279 Speaker 6: Yeah. 631 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 11: N are you with the patient? 632 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,680 Speaker 12: Okay, I need someone to keep the phone, stop passing 633 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 12: it around, and I just tell you what happened pretty much, what. 634 00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 1: Is going on currently as someone passed out right. 635 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,399 Speaker 12: Now, I don't really know what pretty much for him. 636 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:03,520 Speaker 11: Okay, well, I need to know what's going on right 637 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 11: now if someone has passed out, can you find that out? 638 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:07,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, I'll come. 639 00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 2: Now I'm hearing Brian Toberger. Can sue Sydney Sumner? 640 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: Sue who? 641 00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 12: Well he could sue id oc that short video of 642 00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 12: him in his jail cell. The ideos he did trace 643 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,879 Speaker 12: that week to a specific person who resigned and did 644 00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 12: not face any kind of punishment for leaking that photo. 645 00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,560 Speaker 12: But Brian Cohberger could come back and say that the 646 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,040 Speaker 12: prison owes him some kind of damage for letting that 647 00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,280 Speaker 12: get through the cracks into the public. 648 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:48,399 Speaker 2: Uh, okay, this is totally bass. Afterwards, doctor Bethany, look 649 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,759 Speaker 2: at him. Look how red his hands are from cleaning things. 650 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 2: There he is cleaning a shoe like he's been out 651 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:55,760 Speaker 2: in the mud. 652 00:39:56,239 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: He hasn't been anywhere. 653 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 2: He's obsessively cleaning and rear ranging his shells. So now 654 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,160 Speaker 2: he's going to sue because somebody link this what damage 655 00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 2: didn't do him. He's already a four time convicted killer. 656 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:10,440 Speaker 2: Don't you have to hurt someone's reputation. How's that going 657 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:11,280 Speaker 2: to hurt his reputation? 658 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:13,800 Speaker 1: It's already ruined, Nancy. 659 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 5: All I see is power and control. 660 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 14: If he can't control the four victims that he's slaughtered, 661 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 14: now he's going. 662 00:40:20,080 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 1: To control the shoe and his jail. 663 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 5: In his jail, cell, I mean, that's what I see. 664 00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 14: You know, Nancy, the reason I do not think that 665 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 14: he acted with another person is that I believe this 666 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,800 Speaker 14: was a sexually motivated crime. I believe he was sexually 667 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,200 Speaker 14: excited while he committed the crime. Over the one hundred 668 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:46,600 Speaker 14: and fifty stab wounds was something that he Sadism and 669 00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 14: sexuality and arousal were all fused in his mind in 670 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 14: some kind of way. So why would he share that 671 00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 14: glory with another perpetrator. That's something that somebody does alone. 672 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,960 Speaker 1: I say, what you're saying is coming home. I get it. 673 00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:07,400 Speaker 2: He would never share all the glory with somebody else. 674 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:15,440 Speaker 2: So the fact to you, Chris McDonough, that he would 675 00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 2: sue over the leaked video, it's absurd. 676 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,640 Speaker 6: Yeah, And you know what, Nancy, I want to be 677 00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:31,360 Speaker 6: the first to advocate that you run the depositions, because 678 00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:35,520 Speaker 6: you know, if I was ISP or the DA's office, etc. 679 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 6: I would want one of my own teams sitting there 680 00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:42,800 Speaker 6: during those initial deposition periods. And the first question I 681 00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,720 Speaker 6: would ask him is go down that line, so exactly 682 00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,680 Speaker 6: how did you do this? Brian? And so I think 683 00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 6: this is absurd, but it's consistent with his behavior. Again, 684 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:57,000 Speaker 6: he sees this whole process, and he sees people as 685 00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:00,279 Speaker 6: the doc has pointed out, power control and dominance, and 686 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,279 Speaker 6: he looks at people as bugs and he doesn't see 687 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 6: them as human beings like we do. 688 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 2: You know, that's a really good point. Philip Doubay, veteran 689 00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,960 Speaker 2: trial lawyer. If he does follow through and sue over 690 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,720 Speaker 2: this link video we're showing right now, he can be called. 691 00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 2: It's not like a criminal trial for you do bake 692 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 2: and hide behind the Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. 693 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:29,279 Speaker 2: The other side, the respondent can put him on as 694 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 2: the first witness and cross examine him as a hostile witness. 695 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:34,879 Speaker 6: Of course they could. 696 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 8: And they could also summon him to a video conference 697 00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 8: room to do his deposition, and they can sit him 698 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:44,120 Speaker 8: down under oath and digress away from his precious torque 699 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,399 Speaker 8: claim for invasion of privacy in his jail cell, where 700 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 8: by the way, he has no expectation of privacy even 701 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 8: constitutionally or intoward, and they will drill him on every 702 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,400 Speaker 8: single crime fact that the public would love to know about. 703 00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 8: If he refuses to answer, counsel can go into court 704 00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,399 Speaker 8: and get sanctions and compel him to respond, and if 705 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:11,400 Speaker 8: he doesn't under Idaho law, the ultimate doomsday sanction could result, 706 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 8: which is a dismissal of his case with prejudice. 707 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 2: We wait as justice ent foles and we remember an 708 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:25,160 Speaker 2: American hero, Deputy Sheriff Rick Haggard, Lee County Sheriff's Department, Mississippi, 709 00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:29,240 Speaker 2: killed in the line of duty and leaving behind a grieving. 710 00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,240 Speaker 1: Wife and daughters. 711 00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 2: American hero Deputy Sheriff Rick Haggard Nancy Gray signing off 712 00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:44,640 Speaker 2: goodbye friend.