WEBVTT - Ep 113: O.T. Johnson 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.440 Just understanding that is okay to not be pens all 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:10.160 is okay. Your kid will be fine if you trust 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:12.840 a person that you've enlisted. 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:14.160 To coach your kid or teach your. 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:16.560 Kid, back up and let them do their job that 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:17.400 they've been hired to do. 0:00:18.960 --> 0:00:22.000 This is the Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.200 healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through 0:00:25.360 --> 0:00:29.560 education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacor from the 0:00:29.560 --> 0:00:33.440 Reform Sports Podcast. Today, I'm welcoming back coach O Fellow 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:36.839 Oten Johnson to the pod. Coach Johnson is in his 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.960 thirteenth season at the helm of the UNCU Pembrooke wrestling program. 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.760 He is also a sports parent and the founder of 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:45.240 Johnson Athletic Camps. 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:46.120 Ot and I. 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.960 Discuss his new role as a softball parent, the importance 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:51.760 of letting others teach and coach your children, and his 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:55.920 perspective on today's college recruiting landscape. My man, I mean 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:57.960 this one is near and dear to my heart. He 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.840 was a guest early on a couple years ago, right 0:01:00.880 --> 0:01:03.400 when the pot went live. A lot has changed since then. 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:06.920 Now my sawn is wrestling for him in college. Turned 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:09.560 into a really good friend, just a great human being. 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:12.560 The head wrestling coach at the University of North Carolina 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.479 Pembrooke Othello, Ot Johnson, coach, thanks so much for hopping out, 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:18.440 man a man, appreciate. 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:20.120 You, man, thanks for bringing back, you know, trying to 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:21.959 be one of the ogs to you know, give a 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:25.360 second invitation. I don't know why. I mean, obviously he's 0:01:25.400 --> 0:01:28.319 had coach J. C. Hoyd on this joint. You have 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.440 dabble on here, you have Coach Murphy me. I don't 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:33.240 know what the heck. Maybe you just feeling sorry for 0:01:33.280 --> 0:01:35.320 me to bring me back on. But hey, we're going 0:01:35.360 --> 0:01:35.920 to make it happy. 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:36.520 Let's get it. 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:37.040 Listen. 0:01:37.319 --> 0:01:39.440 Well, like I said, now my son's wrestling for you. 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:41.920 We've been through that whole process. But another thing that's 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.280 going on here in the last few years i've heard 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.400 from you is, I mean, obviously you're a parent, you're 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:49.080 a sportsman, but you've turned into like softball dad. Right, 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.559 you're a softball dad, you're a softball coach. 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:54.680 And man, listen, I've got you know, I've been on the. 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.120 Baseball scene, but I've heard you know, I've been around 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.640 softball plenty, and I've talked to plenty of people involved. 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:01.560 What does that look like, man? 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.520 I mean, you and your wife both phenomenal athletes in 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:07.520 college and coaches yourselves, both of you. What's it like 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.040 being on the on the travel softball see as parents? 0:02:10.760 --> 0:02:14.840 Man, I have seen some crazy parents. Man. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:17.840 You know, when you hear the term people living through 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:22.800 their kids, these freaking parents are literally living through their kids. 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:25.320 And Nick, I think one of the greatest thing that 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.919 happened to my wife and myself and our kids, our daughter, 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.120 the one that's currently on the travel scene, is the 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.919 fact that you know, we've both played at the highest level, 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:35.440 at least for us, you know, we've played at the 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.880 college level, and I think each and every day we 0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:41.200 don't have to scratch an itch like some of these 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.400 parents feel like they need to, and they try to 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:45.480 live vicariously to their kids, you know, I think I 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:48.600 think that's one of the most alarming things in the 0:02:48.600 --> 0:02:51.280 world now, not just with sports parents, but specifically as 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.040 we're speaking of sports parents, you know, is that they 0:02:53.080 --> 0:02:55.560 feel like if their kid does well, you know, that 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:59.200 validates their parenting. And then it's the furthest thing from 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:02.720 the truth. So I watch it from within our team. 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:05.560 I watch it from within other teams. As you're walking 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:08.200 out of the stadium from these tournaments, you hear parents 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:12.840 just digging in on their their daughters, you know, And honestly, Nick, somebody, 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:14.880 these parents, I don't know if they care if their 0:03:14.960 --> 0:03:17.440 kids team win or not. Sometimes they just want to 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.240 make sure that they can get a good picture of 0:03:19.280 --> 0:03:22.640 their kid in their uniform, whether it's a live plan 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:25.160 or if they're just them on the field. For them, 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.640 that's the validation that they get, is that click, and 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:29.920 you know, they want. 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:32.160 To better get that bad for their kids. So when 0:03:32.200 --> 0:03:34.480 their kid hits the ball, they have enough pictures. 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:38.120 And people are crazy, man, They're able to fabricate their stats. 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:39.800 You know, it's it's you softball. 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:42.040 So how many people on Facebook are going to go 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:44.720 back and validate what truly happened? You know, honestly, no 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:47.120 one really cares. So no one cares to go back 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.160 and validates those things. And so some people are willing 0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:53.440 to fabricate the truth and make up things just so 0:03:53.480 --> 0:03:55.200 they can get the clicks on their buddies. 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:57.120 And you know, so when they go to the wine 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:58.120 and cheese crowd, you know. 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.520 Oh my god, Susie's doing so softball aren't just propriud 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:03.120 of her. Some people, that's all they want to hear. 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.640 And that's sick. It is sick, is disgusting. And what 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.800 we've noticed is when these girls don't make the games 0:04:09.800 --> 0:04:11.840 that their moms or dads think that you'd. 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:12.840 Be making, they quit. 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:15.640 You know, I'm not gonna name any names, but I've 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:17.840 seen one of the most disgusting things that I've ever seen. 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:20.359 A kid that was playing on our team, you know, 0:04:20.600 --> 0:04:24.240 or some time back, didn't have the game that her 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.240 parents wanted to have. So at the end of the game, 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:29.200 I'll coach again. Mind you, this guy has no child 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.680 on the team. We were able to convince him to 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:34.520 start this team back up, so you know, our daughter, 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:37.360 you know, self speaking, can have someone outside of us 0:04:37.360 --> 0:04:38.039 to coach her. 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:40.919 So this man is doing it for free. Him and 0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:42.159 his wife take time out. 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.760 Of their busy lives, from their jobs and his business 0:04:44.960 --> 0:04:46.920 to do this for free because he loves the sport 0:04:46.960 --> 0:04:49.159 of softball. Obviously, his daughter went on to play at 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.440 Division one softball and this man is giving a post 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:56.800 tournament speech and he gets interrupted by the parent, and 0:04:56.800 --> 0:04:59.720 this parent yells er her daughter to come on this 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:02.080 g you know, we all like we're dumbfound They're like, 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.520 what's going on? And the daughter doesn't move, and the 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:07.400 parents yells at the daughter, da da da da da, 0:05:07.520 --> 0:05:10.560 get over here now. And so one, you're embarrassed for 0:05:10.600 --> 0:05:13.520 the daughter because now this parent, you know, it's so 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.440 within themselves because their daughter didn't get us much playing 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:20.359 time in a certain position. And now you put the 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:21.880 coach in the craziest spot. You put your daughter in 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:24.320 the craziest pot. Because now all of our friends at 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:27.279 thirteen years old are wondering like, is this parent crazy? 0:05:27.440 --> 0:05:28.080 What's the parent? 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:29.920 What's crazy? At the time, So, you know. 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:33.080 Just watching that scenario, let me know, my goodness, man, 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:35.560 I'm so happy that I play college sports, and I'm 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.159 so happy that I see every day in my program 0:05:39.240 --> 0:05:42.200 what some of these kids have to go through because 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.280 their parents want them to be so good, so much 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:47.880 in the sport, and then forget the real life lessons 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:48.200 that their. 0:05:48.160 --> 0:05:50.000 Kids are supposed to getting out of athletics. And I 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:51.120 think we're in for it. 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:54.360 I think it's going to get worse, unfortunately, and I 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.080 think people only see the small piece of it because 0:05:57.680 --> 0:06:00.360 they're only watching the Power Files on TV. And they 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:02.720 don't see what it goes down in the trenches. So 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:04.800 it has a softball parent as wild. 0:06:05.880 --> 0:06:08.120 So I want to unpack that a little bit because 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:10.400 a lot of stuff you said I can certainly relate 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:11.880 to from coaching standpoint. 0:06:12.000 --> 0:06:13.080 From I've been very fortunate. 0:06:13.120 --> 0:06:15.640 I haven't had that crazy of a situation, but I've 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:18.520 had like you know, the circles at form over here, 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.560 and it's almost like rebellion, and then it's like these 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.240 clicks a parent and it's like it's like middle school again, 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:24.560 like oh. 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:26.360 We're gonna do this, you know, we're gonna start this team, 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:28.719 and it's like, what is this all about? 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:32.400 So you mentioned, you know, being a college athlete was 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:34.240 an advantage, and I argue that as well. If you 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.599 played at a certain level, it kind of allows you 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:37.040 to take. 0:06:36.880 --> 0:06:37.320 A step back. 0:06:37.360 --> 0:06:38.520 And I love how you said you don't have to 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.480 scratch that itch, right you you feel fulfilled in your 0:06:41.520 --> 0:06:44.120 own athletic career. It's not about you anymore. But how 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:47.359 do you separate You're in a unique position because you 0:06:47.360 --> 0:06:49.159 are a high level college coach. I mean, you coach 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.159 one of the best Division two wrestling programs in the 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.320 country right now currently ranked in the top ten nationally. 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:59.200 So how do you compartmentalize the coaching aspect and the 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:02.000 sports parent aspect Because you obviously want to see your 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:05.160 daughter succeed and you're a competitor, do you have to 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:06.800 because I almost feel like at times we need to 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.120 give people examples on how to pause. I feel like 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.120 the word pause is so critical because listen, I'll get hyped. 0:07:12.960 --> 0:07:14.200 Up watching my kids compete. 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:15.920 I can get excited for them, but I feel like 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:17.239 I'm at a point where I can take a step 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:18.880 back and just be the fan. So how do you 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:22.000 become the fan versus the coaches enemy or get over 0:07:22.040 --> 0:07:24.080 about like where does the line get. 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:27.559 Crossed with over zealous? Like crazy? Sports pair? Do you think? 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.040 Well, as I say all those things as a competitor, 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:35.080 you know, as a competitor, I understand that the end 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.280 goal is to win. I'm not discounting that that we 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.560 want to win. So in the process of trying to win, 0:07:41.760 --> 0:07:45.320 we have to make sure the girls practice the right way, 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.000 they show up when they're supposed to show up. And 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:51.840 you know, my daughter has missed one practice for a 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:54.760 travel ball team. One and that one practice you missed 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:57.640 was because she wanted to attend the ceremony for a 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:00.440 long time staying head coach at UNCP coach, we just 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:01.800 missed ceremony at UNCP. 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.040 So she's missed one practice for a draftball team won. 0:08:04.440 --> 0:08:07.400 And so it's never been about her winning or her 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.000 getting this shine. There's always been about you know, instilling 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.360 these you know, these behaviors, these. 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:13.600 Life characteristics in her. 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:15.040 Hey, when you sign up for a thing, you got 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.000 to show up for that thing, and the result is irrelevant. 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.160 The fact of the matter is, you know, we're going 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.120 to instill in you that, Hey, you say you want 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:23.920 to be a softball player on this team, You're going 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.560 to show up. You know, we've left family vacations early 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.800 to get back to be there for her practices. I 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.040 think some of the issues with some people is that, 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:34.120 you know, they only want to play when it's time 0:08:34.160 --> 0:08:34.880 to play games. 0:08:35.000 --> 0:08:37.000 You know, the games are one before you ever step 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:38.960 out there. And I think one of the issues that. 0:08:39.360 --> 0:08:41.240 Some of these parents struggle with is that, you know, 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.280 they sign up for something, they're over zealous with how 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:46.520 cool it sounds, but they don't understand the commitment that 0:08:46.520 --> 0:08:49.160 it's going to take to get their daughter to practice 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.199 every single time, you know, and and and some. 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:53.959 People might think we're crazy, but Nick comal, I know 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:55.800 what an injury is. I know when the girl is 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:56.839 hurt or one guy is hurt. 0:08:57.360 --> 0:09:00.280 You know, some people freak out when their daughter her 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.280 InKo the wrong way. Well, at the end of the day, 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:05.000 you know, she's gonna get up, should be fine. I 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:06.679 don't need to run out there. My wife doesn't run 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:08.800 out there. Coach Johnny most time, we don't need him 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:09.360 to run out there. 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:09.720 Once. 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.040 She has to learn how to compete with herself mentally 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:14.760 and too, she has to learn that, hey, if this 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:17.719 was the championship game of the you know, the big 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:18.840 Cuth World. 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:20.040 Series, is she gonna pull herself out? 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:21.920 Is she gonna want to be involved? And I think 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.520 some people misunderstand the life lesson that the sports will teach, 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.440 you know, before the competition never starts. So for us, 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:31.880 we've been there, we understand that. And honestly, you know, 0:09:31.920 --> 0:09:35.440 my wife coaches high school ball, varsity basketball, and varsity volleyball, 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:39.199 so we've seen crazy parents on both the college level 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.439 and in the high school level. We've dealt with crazy parents, 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.680 and so I think that puts us in a better position, 0:09:46.800 --> 0:09:49.880 you know, unfortunately and fortunately to be able to deal 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.360 with you know, crazy when we see it, but also 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:55.960 to pull ourselves back and say, hey, this is her moment, 0:09:56.080 --> 0:09:58.920 This is their moment. And the funny thing about that is, 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.240 you know, we have a younger dog, her that we 0:10:01.280 --> 0:10:02.200 allow to play. 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:04.120 But you know, she had. 0:10:04.040 --> 0:10:06.640 An offer to go play on a travel ball eight 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:08.280 you team, a travel eight. 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:09.280 You team one. 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.640 My wife and I made a joke about it. Ruby 0:10:11.679 --> 0:10:13.079 got her first offer. 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:14.520 To play on a travel eight you team. 0:10:14.600 --> 0:10:15.000 What the heck? 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:16.439 Come on, what's the seven year old going to go 0:10:16.480 --> 0:10:17.560 travel to play for? Like? 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:20.680 Come on, One, we're all over the place right now 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.600 as parents with our own responsibility as coaches. 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.920 And two, we have an older daughter that never did 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:27.680 any of these things. 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.560 She never became serious about sports, you know, to a 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:32.280 point where we say, okay, what she does want to 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:34.240 do it killed by eleven years old. So why the 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:37.160 heck will we even bother putting our seven year old 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:39.559 in that position to get that serious about it that, 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:42.520 you know, because you know, Murphy's watching and he's getting 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:43.280 ready to come get. 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:45.679 Her at eight years old, you know, you know, or 0:10:46.440 --> 0:10:47.040 the coach. 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.280 At UNCP I'll use that since it's closer to home. 0:10:49.440 --> 0:10:51.000 Is watching her at eight years old so she can 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.360 come and a recruiter come on, you know. So I 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.080 think being in the trenches as athletes and being the 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.400 trenches as coaches kind of you know, put out of 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:01.640 things in pon for us and then say this, I 0:11:01.640 --> 0:11:03.800 ain't gonna lie to save this a whole hell of 0:11:03.840 --> 0:11:05.600 a lot of money and and a whole lot of 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.440 family time. So I'm not sure if I completely answer 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:10.439 your question, but and I think I think being in 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:12.439 the transit has really helped us, and both of us 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:14.320 being in the transites as college athlete. 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:15.720 And I give my wife most of the credit. 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.000 I mean, she was a dog man, she played basketball 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:19.880 and ran track and cross country in college. 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:20.840 So she doesn't either. 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:23.000 She doesn't need to distract that she's doing it not 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:25.120 because she wants to be around athletics and she wants 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:27.560 to see growth in the female sport and as a 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:31.400 female helping young girls. She gets validation from that, not 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:34.080 not to see nor you know, be the best on 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:36.000 our team. Wish the goal is to be the best 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:37.040 and to work to be the best. 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:37.960 But if she's not, you. 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.400 Know, it doesn't It doesn't change anything. It doesn't change 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:41.600 what kind of love we have for her. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.160 I was thinking about this earlier because you know, you 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.440 and I came together through the sport of wrestling, obviously, 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.559 and I had never I was thinking about this recently 0:11:50.600 --> 0:11:54.040 because my second oldest son, Tyler, is you know, he's 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:55.960 in the senior year of high school and he's going 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:58.400 to be you know, done wrestling here and another, you know, 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:01.840 another little bit of time as season winds down, and 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.720 you know, you and I, you know, Willie Hillton shout 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:07.200 out slide Fox wrestling cover boy. We always chat about 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.400 kind of the history, and as said lately, I've been 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:10.079 getting a little. 0:12:09.880 --> 0:12:10.840 Nostalgic about it. 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:12.640 But you know, one of the things that I think 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.000 attracted me so much the sport of wrestling, And I 0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.439 would argue that every sports parents should do this if 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.840 they have some sort of background in a particular sport. 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:24.280 Up until Tyler and Avery got involved with wrestling, my 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.400 kids were only involved in sports that I had played. 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:30.080 I was coaching football and I played high school football. 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:34.040 I was coaching baseball, I played collegiate a little professional baseball. 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:37.000 I played basketball rec basketball, was coaching basketball. 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:37.800 They were playing that. 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.680 So up until wrestling, I think I introduced them to lacrosse, 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:44.839 but they really weren't, you know, into it that much. 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.680 But up until wrestling, and I fell in love with 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.440 the sport because it was the first time that I 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:52.760 could be a parent. 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.200 And not know what the hell I was taught. 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:59.600 I had nothing to offer from from a standpoint of 0:12:59.679 --> 0:13:03.360 like advice. You know, I know what effort is, I 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:05.600 know what competing is, I know what listening to the 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:08.400 coaches and shout out to Willy again, like first time 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:10.880 he went into SLI Fox Wrestling Club and you've probably. 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:11.360 Heard this before. 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.080 Tyler and Avery are there, and I think Tyler was 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:16.280 one or two of them. They were talking or whatever, 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.320 and I think I yelled. I didn't yell, but I 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.200 was like, hey, guys, pay attention. And Willy just looked 0:13:20.200 --> 0:13:22.200 over to me and said, Nick, I got it. And 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:24.440 I was like, all right, I'm done. Like I don't 0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:26.720 got to ever say a word right then and there, 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.400 I knew I was in the right club. But from 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:31.840 that experience, it allowed me to step back and I 0:13:31.880 --> 0:13:33.960 was like, I can't offer advice if I wanted to 0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:36.120 about technique or how they can get better and I 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:37.319 was like, Man, I think this is. 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:38.400 The way it's supposed to be. 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.880 I'm just supposed to sit back and like enjoy watching 0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:44.160 them compete. They say ignorance is bliss, and I think 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:47.040 that was the first time that I really, you know, 0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.040 experienced that in it unlocked this like different perspective where 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:52.880 it almost took a lot of pressure off. 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:55.560 Like I don't call it reform sports project for any reason. 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:57.920 I used to be. I got caught up in those weeds. 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:00.360 So I almost feel like if parents can get involved 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.960 with something they don't know and just enjoy the moment, 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:05.640 it can really open things up. And I don't know 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:07.640 what your thoughts are on that, but I think it 0:14:07.679 --> 0:14:08.120 was good. 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.760 Man. I have an amazing story al B PJ. Smith. 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:13.000 You know the goat. 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.720 So when my wife and I we're in grad school. 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.360 Coach Smith legend UNCP Athletics, D two. 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:20.680 Hall of Famer and Wrestling Hall of Famer. 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:23.920 He taught hundreds of people, by the thousands of people, 0:14:23.920 --> 0:14:26.480 He's taught thousands of people swim lessons at u NCP. 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:28.640 And when we got there, you know, one of the 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:31.120 ways that coach knew he could get back to his 0:14:31.160 --> 0:14:33.520 wrestler former wrestler to people involved in the sport and 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.520 just student athletes in general, students that wanted to work 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.400 in grind was he would hire. 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.400 Students in the summer to do swim school, and so 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:41.240 he hired us. 0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.240 We freaking both went and got our swimming certification to 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.720 be swim instructors, and we did the swim school for 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:48.680 a couple of years. And then when Nora became of 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.400 age to take the swim lessons, you know, we kind 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:54.920 of like dropped her off because she did the first class, 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.160 you know, and so we put her down there and 0:14:57.200 --> 0:14:59.200 she's getting ready to do the swimming and she's falling 0:14:59.200 --> 0:15:02.000 her eyes out, yell, and I get up and try 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:03.400 to go over there and try to help her out, 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.880 and Coach smiths it, get out of here. What do 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.160 you think because you work here, you're gonna get special treatment. 0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.680 And I'm like, oh my god, a light bulb went off, Nick, 0:15:12.720 --> 0:15:13.280 And I'm like. 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.720 The dude's freaking right. This is not your domain, Like 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:17.960 is your child. 0:15:18.360 --> 0:15:20.360 If you want to teach swimming, go teach another class. 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:22.760 Let your kid beat, you know, let your kids suffer. 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.520 There's nothing wrong with that. And from there on, my 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:28.880 wife and I would get up to the pool, we'll 0:15:28.960 --> 0:15:31.240 drop her off, we'll walk downstairs, we'll go walk around 0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:33.760 the Jones building, maybe grab basketball and just go shoot around. 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:35.720 She'll beat me up in a quick game of a 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:38.080 one on one, and then an hour later we'll come 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:38.640 back up there. 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:40.760 And you know, we did that for the first. 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:42.960 Couple of times, and she will cry when we leave, 0:15:43.000 --> 0:15:44.920 and then we get back she'll be fine. And so 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.200 just understanding that is okay to not be hands on 0:15:50.040 --> 0:15:50.520 is okay. 0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:52.120 Your kid will be fine if you. 0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.720 Trust the person that you've enlisted to coach your kid 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.040 or teach your kid, back up and let them do 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:02.000 their job that they've been to do. You know, it 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.400 is about your kids learning to be around other people, 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.240 trust other people, and learn from other people. 0:16:08.520 --> 0:16:10.200 You're not going to be the only teacher in your 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:12.280 kid's life. And we do that all the. 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:14.920 Time for teachers in school. We'll freaking drop our kids 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.040 off in the morning and leave them for them near 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:17.640 eight hours. 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:19.800 Best time of the day, by the way. Oh my god, 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:20.480 I love it, you know. 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:22.280 So, then what the heck do you feel like? 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:25.680 Noah as athletes for more athletes or people that watch YouTube, 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:27.160 and when I hated to throw a softball. 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:29.520 What kind of validation do I have that I have. 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.760 To go get in the coach's face to say, hey, Nora, 0:16:32.880 --> 0:16:33.320 do this this? 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:36.000 No, shut up, Otiq, go sit down over there. If 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:37.760 I'm helping out. And I think it's been one of 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:39.600 the greatest thing. And sometimes White gets mad at me, like, 0:16:39.640 --> 0:16:41.600 don't have in the safe. No, I don't have any the. 0:16:41.600 --> 0:16:43.920 Same And you remember this, Nick, when Nora got involved 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:45.400 a couple of years ago and I was asking you some. 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:47.280 Cues, I'm like, Okay, what is not my thing? 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.760 So I'm gonna And we've been super lucky, man. I mean, 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:53.280 Coach Brady has been awesome. His fan has been awesome, 0:16:53.320 --> 0:16:55.760 to the girls on the Wildcast team, you know, to 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:57.640 have someone again, he doesn't have a dog in a fight. 0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.000 The only dog he has in a fight is he 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:00.840 loves the sport and he wants to see this for 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:01.680 Gornall County. 0:17:02.160 --> 0:17:04.200 You know, it's just to back up and just let 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.720 it be. And I think again that that that that interaction. 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.480 With Coach Smith and nor in swim lessons was one 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:12.400 I think one of the best lessons I learned as 0:17:12.400 --> 0:17:15.159 a young parent. And that lesson is gone with me 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:17.280 a long time. And you know, and I think you 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:19.159 had Oh my god, who was that you had? 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.000 On the pod? A Lexi? He talked. He talked about 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.560 people paying for their kids to play things. 0:17:24.600 --> 0:17:26.080 You know, and I'll be the first one to say, 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:28.680 we pay for private lessons for our daughter to pitch. 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.760 We pay for private basketball lesson for her to get 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.680 ball hand on the skills because it gets her away. 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.240 From us and it gets her listening to someone else. 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.760 And you can attest to this. When you coach your kid, 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.199 it's like you got double homes on your head. They 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:44.960 don't listen to you, and you know, they think you're crazy. 0:17:45.440 --> 0:17:47.680 That's same exact lesson you're trying to teach them. Someone 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:51.240 else that's not Mom or Dad starts teaching them that lesson. 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:54.520 They're all ears, they're focused, and they do it. And 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:56.359 you got to make a decision. Are you investing in 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.040 your kid enough to lest someone else teach them. 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.800 The same thing you're teaching them, or are you such 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:02.640 a great coach? 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:07.080 Nick Saban, Bill Belichick, you know, Marvin Lewis and Tony 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:09.040 Dungee and all those people that you're not going to 0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:11.480 step off and let someone else do the work for 0:18:11.640 --> 0:18:13.760 you that you believe that not to do. My wife 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.879 is a great basketball player, but you know, she understands 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.920 and I understand that. Hey. One, that gives us time 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:22.680 to just sit back and relax and watch and see 0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:25.480 how she responds to someone else. And two, it gives 0:18:25.560 --> 0:18:27.280 her a chance and it gives them a chance to 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:29.920 absorb teaching and coaching from someone else. So I think 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.800 that's one of the biggest advantage of not knowing the 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:35.040 sport that well. 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:37.160 It is the fact that you can step back, let. 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.440 Someone else coach your kid, let someone else educate your kid, 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.000 just like we do in education, you know, for us, 0:18:43.160 --> 0:18:45.160 for people that are not teachers, you let other people 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:47.760 educate your kid on a daily basis, five days a week. 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:49.520 So why not do the same one you have an 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:51.480 athlete that you think is aspiring to be the best, 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:53.960 and I think people miss that point. And so you 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.440 have all these daddy ball coaches that you know, just 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:58.920 got off the couch and you know, watch a couple 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:01.240 of YouTube videos and they want going to you know, 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.600 be the next you know Dabbo and coach Tsinski and 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.320 World Williams. So I think people missed the boat there. 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.440 There's only one jobs, man, there's only one KALs Anderson. 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.840 You know, those guys are where they are and they've 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:15.440 been there for how long they've been there because you know, 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:19.440 they understand athletes, they understand coach, and they understand more 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:21.280 than the single legs and double legs. 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:24.080 They understand how to motivate people. And that's why they've 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:26.159 lasted so long their in their domain. 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.600 When we return, OT and I discussed recruiting and the 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:32.639 transfer portal. Before we go to break, I've got another 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:35.879 exciting announcement for you. Team Snap, the leading provider of 0:19:35.960 --> 0:19:39.440 sports management software, has acquired Mojo. In addition to the 0:19:39.520 --> 0:19:42.320 best in class sports management solutions used by more than 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:45.960 two million daily active users and nineteen thousand sports organizations, 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:50.040 Team Snap will now offer Mojo's award winning library of games, drills, 0:19:50.160 --> 0:19:52.880 and session by session support for youth coaches, as well 0:19:52.920 --> 0:19:57.159 as robust interactive multimedia tools including live streaming, for families 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:57.800 and fans. 0:19:57.640 --> 0:19:59.119 To engage on and off the field. 0:19:59.280 --> 0:20:02.520 The combination of the two industry leading consumer tech platforms 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:05.359 also creates the most comprehensive suite of B to B 0:20:05.560 --> 0:20:10.520 tools available for youth sports organizations, including powerful content distribution, 0:20:10.680 --> 0:20:14.960 capabilities to drive adoption of coaching and training programs, registration tools, 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:19.120 payment processing, organizational management tools, and much more. To learn more, 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.680 visit www dot teamsnap dot com and set up a 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:25.360 free demo to learn how team snap can help your organization. 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:33.600 This season, where we left off, Ot and I were 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.720 about to discuss how NIL has impacted sports at the 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:40.879 D two level and the current college recruiting landscape. I 0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:43.480 want to dig in a little bit with you because 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:46.159 first and foremost, you are coaching at the you know, 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.520 the highest level of Division two, and there's been a 0:20:48.600 --> 0:20:51.240 lot that's changed since last time you came on the pod. 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:53.400 You know, NIL was talked about. 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.320 Of course, the transfer porter wasn't played, but name, image, likeness, 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.159 NIL has become I mean mainstream. I mean it seems 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:04.040 like every say, the landscape of college athletics and recruiting 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:07.320 and everything has just changed so much. You know, at 0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:09.640 the quote unquote Power five level, which I'm sure there'll 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.640 be a new name for that here soon. It's it's 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:15.760 pro sports, you know, particularly football and basketball. But what 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:18.399 does the landscape look like? I guess from you know, 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:20.359 the way all the shifting has taken place from a 0:21:20.440 --> 0:21:23.880 recruiting standpoint, how has that impacted the Division two level, 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:25.239 And if you could just kind of give us your 0:21:25.280 --> 0:21:25.879 perspective on. 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:28.120 The way the college landscape. 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:28.159 Is right now. 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:31.119 Well, I mean, I think we'll brag on you and 0:21:31.240 --> 0:21:33.760 Avery and just your family in general. I think I 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:37.280 think no matter where this goes, including for Power five, 0:21:38.160 --> 0:21:39.520 there's nothing that's ever going. 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:41.040 To replace the relationship aspect of. 0:21:41.119 --> 0:21:43.399 Recruiting, you know. And I like to credit all the 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:45.880 guys that I've had helped me out with coaching, assistant 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:48.239 coaches that have gone on to now currently run their 0:21:48.280 --> 0:21:49.400 own programs. 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:50.399 And just you know, and my. 0:21:50.480 --> 0:21:53.640 Mentors that I've had in past, coach coach. 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:55.800 Gibbs, that that really helped me understand. 0:21:55.880 --> 0:21:57.399 You know, if you want to be a great recruiter, 0:21:57.560 --> 0:21:59.640 you know, being a great recruiter makes you a great coach. 0:21:59.800 --> 0:22:01.840 You're going to recruit the right kids, and you're gonna 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.240 have to build relationships, you know. And in some days 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:05.960 I wonder, sometimes, man, am I. 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:08.280 Putting too much into this whereas taken away from my 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:11.000 own family? And yes, that's that's the sacrifice I have 0:22:11.080 --> 0:22:14.560 to make. And I think watching my daughter being able 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:17.280 to do what she does. You know, she's heard me 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:18.119 on phone calls. 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:20.160 You know, sometimes she has to acquire her sister down. 0:22:20.359 --> 0:22:22.080 Hey, be quiet, data is on the phone with a recruit. 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.760 Nothing replaces that relationship that you build with an athlete. 0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:26.920 They have to trust you. 0:22:27.200 --> 0:22:29.760 You know a lot of these coaches that just run 0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:30.960 up to a kid when they see him at a 0:22:31.000 --> 0:22:34.000 big tournament and do well, and all of a sudden 0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:36.800 start making offers to them. You know, we're all motivated 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:40.280 in some way for more faction by money, right, so when. 0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:42.720 Someone comes diggling and dingling an offer in. 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:45.800 Front of you, a X amount of dollars, you forget. 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:49.040 Sometimes you know, hey, wait a minute, there's another part 0:22:49.080 --> 0:22:51.480 of this that I need to remember. You know, my 0:22:51.680 --> 0:22:54.320 recruiting process is bigger than just how much money someone 0:22:54.359 --> 0:22:58.119 can offer me. And so when you talk about recruiting, 0:22:58.680 --> 0:23:01.440 we always make sure with the assessment of COVID time 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:02.800 where people can visit campus. 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:05.600 We try to get every single kid on our campus, 0:23:06.080 --> 0:23:07.760 no matter how long we talk to them, no matter 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:08.960 how great the relationship is. 0:23:09.320 --> 0:23:11.679 You need to be in the physical with us, around 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:15.560 us in our domain to feel that connection, you know, 0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:18.920 so to speak, and if you don't do that for me. 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:21.840 You know, it's really hard for me to feel comfortable. 0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:23.920 Bring you on our roster, bring you in our program, 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:26.320 bring you into our campus, bring you into unc prembroke. 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:29.760 You know, we don't want everyone at UNCP. We don't 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:32.480 need everyone at UNCP. It takes a special person to 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:35.120 be a brave wrestler. You have to be brave tough. 0:23:35.520 --> 0:23:38.280 You can start off as brave, but eventually gonna have 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:40.400 to become tough. And we need to find out does 0:23:40.400 --> 0:23:42.879 this person have the potential to be brave tough, you know? 0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:44.800 And can they stay with us for four or five 0:23:44.880 --> 0:23:46.880 years if it takes that long for them as lost 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:48.879 to eligibility, we're rare shirting, and so I think a 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:50.760 lot of times there are a lot of dudes and 0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:53.440 girls out there that miss that boat on the relationship 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:56.000 aspect of the recruiting process. And when they do that, 0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:59.200 it's when you see the max exodus in these programs. 0:23:59.400 --> 0:24:03.639 With the portal and another thing, Nick, just about ninety 0:24:03.680 --> 0:24:05.720 nine percent of the kids I've recruited, I've made sure 0:24:05.760 --> 0:24:07.800 when they made a decision, and in most cases not 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:11.040 us because our board is usually sixty to seventy guys big, 0:24:11.440 --> 0:24:13.159 we're not going to get all those guys. I make 0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:15.280 sure I keep a good relationship with those kids and 0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:18.280 congratulate them wherever they go, because again, like you said, 0:24:18.320 --> 0:24:21.840 we're talking about the porter right that portal is jumping 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.040 right now, and in about two and a half months 0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:26.520 from a wrestling standpoint, it's going to be jumping even more. 0:24:27.160 --> 0:24:28.800 And I can't wait. I love the Porter. 0:24:28.880 --> 0:24:30.760 I think it's probably one of the greatest thing because 0:24:31.520 --> 0:24:34.080 the coaches that tell the kid, well, good luck, we're 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:36.200 going to pinion and with rest of you, or you 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:39.600 made the worst decision of your career, you no longer 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:43.600 have an end to that kid because you didn't respect 0:24:43.640 --> 0:24:46.919 their decision. It's their decision, so you should respect their 0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:48.919 decision where they want to go, where they feel comfortable 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:51.040 at the time, you know, and if something changed in 0:24:51.040 --> 0:24:53.440 their life. Is if a coach leaves and they decide, okay, 0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:55.800 well I came here for this coach reality check. 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:57.919 Most kids go to most schools for their. 0:24:57.800 --> 0:25:00.359 Coach, unless you're going to a specific school that has 0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:04.040 a specific major, specific program that in no matter way, 0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:05.720 if that school they didn't have your sport, you're going 0:25:05.800 --> 0:25:08.160 to go there. Anyways, most kids are going to most 0:25:08.240 --> 0:25:10.720 program because they respect to coach, they have a great 0:25:10.720 --> 0:25:14.320 relationship with the coach, and you know, the school happened. 0:25:14.119 --> 0:25:15.000 To have a sport they want. 0:25:15.200 --> 0:25:18.160 So I think the portal is a blessing in disguise 0:25:18.200 --> 0:25:19.119 if issues properly. 0:25:19.480 --> 0:25:21.960 And I also think it's a curse, you know. 0:25:22.080 --> 0:25:24.520 I think I want to point out because Avery went 0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:27.440 through the recruiting process with you, and he committed to 0:25:27.560 --> 0:25:30.200 you and UNCP the day after the state. 0:25:30.040 --> 0:25:31.640 Tournament his junior year. 0:25:31.720 --> 0:25:35.159 So I mean from a Division two standpoint in today's there, 0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:37.040 some would say he committed early, you know what I mean, 0:25:37.080 --> 0:25:39.240 even though I think a junior committing is not early. 0:25:39.280 --> 0:25:41.600 He knew he wanted to go, He had the relationship 0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:44.480 with you, the rapport, and you know, checked all the 0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:47.359 boxes like we would have known if something would to 0:25:47.400 --> 0:25:50.800 pop off from other schools later on down the road. 0:25:51.359 --> 0:25:54.080 Even if he hadn't committed, they didn't put the time 0:25:54.160 --> 0:25:56.240 in what he was kind of I don't want to say, 0:25:56.240 --> 0:25:58.040 a diamond in the rough, but still kind of making 0:25:58.080 --> 0:25:59.800 his name for himself. It would have been really easy 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:02.199 through when the state title as a senior for you know. 0:26:02.280 --> 0:26:03.600 Oh yeah, yeah, come here, come here. 0:26:03.640 --> 0:26:05.760 But you had already put the legwork in as early 0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:09.080 as possible, and that was an easy decision for him. 0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:11.879 But what I thought was was the most interesting piece 0:26:11.960 --> 0:26:15.040 of the whole, you know, recruiting process, you know, going 0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:17.159 on his official visit, and then of course you sit down. 0:26:17.000 --> 0:26:17.360 In the room. 0:26:17.480 --> 0:26:21.320 Was you know when you offered Avery, there was no pressure, 0:26:21.960 --> 0:26:24.040 right And I've heard stories, actually heard you and I 0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:26.040 texted about it, and we're not going to say who 0:26:26.119 --> 0:26:28.760 it is, or coaches like put a time stamp on 0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:30.800 offers to kids like, hey, you need to let me 0:26:30.880 --> 0:26:33.920 know asap. With you, it was, Hey, we'd love to 0:26:33.960 --> 0:26:36.080 have you come here. Here's the package that we're offering you. 0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:38.680 Now there's incentives if you do well your senior year, 0:26:38.760 --> 0:26:41.440 and this can go up, YadA, YadA, YadA. But go 0:26:41.680 --> 0:26:45.080 visit other schools, take your time, go see other places. 0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:47.160 Like I remember you saying like, we want to make sure. 0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:48.840 I need to make sure that when you come here, 0:26:48.920 --> 0:26:50.840 you want to come here. There was no sense of 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:53.040 urgency on your end. You let them know you wanted them, 0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:55.359 but at the same time, make sure when you commit here, 0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:57.840 it's where you want to be. So go see everywhere, 0:26:57.920 --> 0:27:00.520 Go visit everywhere, go do it. And I think that 0:27:00.640 --> 0:27:03.080 that's so critical, But that also takes a tremendous amount 0:27:03.080 --> 0:27:06.200 of confidence because as a program, like you said, you 0:27:06.320 --> 0:27:08.120 got to be able to tell people, no, you can't 0:27:08.560 --> 0:27:11.280 welcome everybody, like you have to be selective. But it 0:27:11.359 --> 0:27:13.520 seems like today it's people just want to jump on 0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:15.600 the quickest offer. Are you ever at a point where 0:27:15.600 --> 0:27:17.440 you're like, God, if we don't put a time stamp 0:27:17.520 --> 0:27:19.600 on this kid, do you ever have the fear of 0:27:19.720 --> 0:27:20.200 missing out? 0:27:20.440 --> 0:27:23.840 Like if I don't? Okay, So how do you manage that? 0:27:24.240 --> 0:27:26.760 To answer that question, yes, but I also go back to, hey, 0:27:26.880 --> 0:27:29.320 our philosophy here, it takes a special person to. 0:27:29.400 --> 0:27:30.280 Believe in what we're doing. 0:27:30.359 --> 0:27:33.040 And honestly, I'll give everybody the trick here. This is 0:27:33.080 --> 0:27:35.600 the game that our cointer parts play on us. They 0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:37.359 don't want the kids they're recruiting that we're recruiting to 0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:39.199 come on our campus because they know when they come 0:27:39.240 --> 0:27:41.000 in our campus, they're like, holy smokes, this is a 0:27:41.080 --> 0:27:44.320 freaking paradise you guys have going in at uncp U 0:27:44.400 --> 0:27:45.120 NC paradise. 0:27:45.240 --> 0:27:49.399 Let's get it. So you know, you got to remember, 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:50.320 now you talking. 0:27:50.119 --> 0:27:53.080 About seventeen eighteen year old kids that are making, in 0:27:53.240 --> 0:27:55.880 my opinion, that the biggest decision of a young adult life. 0:27:56.240 --> 0:27:58.359 So they need to get it right, you know, they 0:27:58.400 --> 0:28:00.200 need to get it right. And if I'm putting. 0:28:00.000 --> 0:28:02.680 Pressure on them, you know, giving them seven days, giving 0:28:02.680 --> 0:28:05.200 them ten days, whatever it may be, when push come 0:28:05.240 --> 0:28:08.040 to shove and they're in the trenches, they might remember that. 0:28:08.160 --> 0:28:09.920 Oh my god, I remember when coach pushed pressure on 0:28:09.920 --> 0:28:11.680 me and I making decision. You know, I need to 0:28:11.760 --> 0:28:12.520 know now if you're going to. 0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:14.520 Come here, you know, and that doesn't sit where with kids, 0:28:14.800 --> 0:28:16.720 and it doesn't sit where with their parents, you know, no. 0:28:16.760 --> 0:28:19.040 Matter what you say. You know, So when we encourage 0:28:19.080 --> 0:28:19.359 kids to. 0:28:19.359 --> 0:28:22.600 Go take visits, I understand, and we've lost kids to 0:28:22.800 --> 0:28:25.439 that because we give them free reign to you. 0:28:25.480 --> 0:28:27.280 Know, shop themselves around, so to speak. 0:28:27.400 --> 0:28:30.400 And so that has come across my mind numerous times, 0:28:30.480 --> 0:28:32.840 especially if it's one of our guys hiring our boards, 0:28:33.280 --> 0:28:35.359 you know, especially early in the process. You know, with Avery, 0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:37.159 you know, I have pictures of Avery when he was 0:28:37.240 --> 0:28:39.440 in you know, the fourth grade, fifth grade, or whatever 0:28:39.440 --> 0:28:39.760 it may be. 0:28:40.280 --> 0:28:42.440 So with him, I was comfortable with him. I was 0:28:42.520 --> 0:28:43.240 confident you. 0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:46.360 Know, he wrestled at a club with a UNCP wrestling 0:28:46.400 --> 0:28:50.440 All American alumni, So I knew everything about Avery that 0:28:50.520 --> 0:28:52.080 I needed to know to know that, hey, he's going 0:28:52.160 --> 0:28:54.240 to be a fit here and he's going to enjoy 0:28:54.320 --> 0:28:56.360 here because we have the right group of guys in place. 0:28:56.800 --> 0:29:00.320 And I think having that confident in myself as a coach, 0:29:00.640 --> 0:29:03.240 as a man, you know, and knowing that I can't 0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:06.000 replace you and Amy, but I'm gonna be the best 0:29:06.000 --> 0:29:06.720 representation of. 0:29:06.720 --> 0:29:08.640 You guys in your absence. Why Avery is here for 0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:10.040 four or five years, whatever it may be. 0:29:10.480 --> 0:29:12.400 Lets me know that, hey, when he makes that decision, 0:29:12.600 --> 0:29:15.600 there's gonna be no second guessing and that other coaches 0:29:15.680 --> 0:29:18.040 can't confidently say that. And it doesn't hurt that I've 0:29:18.080 --> 0:29:20.320 been here for, you know, seventeen years either. So I 0:29:20.400 --> 0:29:22.680 think a lot of parents get that comfortability knowing that 0:29:22.840 --> 0:29:24.600 that kid is not gonna go somewherehere the coach is 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:27.080 going to be jumping ship every other year to find 0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:29.120 the next best thing, you know, And I think that's 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:30.600 one of the other things that's lost. And that's why 0:29:30.640 --> 0:29:33.200 the transfer board, like we talked about, is so hot, 0:29:33.560 --> 0:29:35.960 and you know, you get over twenty five hundred kids 0:29:35.960 --> 0:29:38.760 in it every year, you know, because there's no stability 0:29:38.800 --> 0:29:41.440 in college coaching, regardless of division. You know, a lot 0:29:41.480 --> 0:29:43.040 of people are jumping ship to go to the next 0:29:43.080 --> 0:29:45.520 hot thing, And so I put that peace. 0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:47.000 Of mind in parents' minds. I put that piece of 0:29:47.080 --> 0:29:47.840 mind in kids mind. 0:29:47.920 --> 0:29:49.400 You know, the kids may not be thinking it, but 0:29:49.600 --> 0:29:51.880 I'm gonna cruit the parents just unless I'm recruiting the kids. 0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:54.960 I was definitely I must as far as parents go out. 0:29:54.960 --> 0:29:57.040 If I wasn't like top one or two on the board, 0:29:57.240 --> 0:29:58.360 I'd be pissed off right now. 0:29:59.320 --> 0:30:01.120 I mean, you're definitely up there. 0:30:01.800 --> 0:30:04.800 You know, you're you're you're one point five and you 0:30:04.920 --> 0:30:07.800 fighting for that other half to get the number one. 0:30:07.880 --> 0:30:09.280 So I'm just gonna throw that out there. 0:30:09.320 --> 0:30:11.400 But you know, at the end of the day, Nick, I. 0:30:11.480 --> 0:30:13.160 Do have that fear that I'm gonna lose one of 0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:15.400 my top guys because you know, there are people out 0:30:15.440 --> 0:30:17.040 there that don't do it right, you know, and and 0:30:17.880 --> 0:30:19.960 the reason why they're not successful is because they don't 0:30:20.000 --> 0:30:21.440 do it right. You know, you're gonna have any people 0:30:21.480 --> 0:30:23.040 that are gonna have success for a year or two, 0:30:23.480 --> 0:30:25.680 and they're gonna fall off right. But at the same time, 0:30:25.680 --> 0:30:27.520 if you look at our track record, you know, one 0:30:27.600 --> 0:30:30.000 we're recruiting our guys the right way. We're bringing in 0:30:30.000 --> 0:30:31.640 the right guys, and two we're got to a point 0:30:31.680 --> 0:30:34.400 now where we're graduating our guys on a consistent basis. 0:30:34.480 --> 0:30:36.200 Our guys that make it to year two and three, 0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:38.600 you know, they're graduating and they're going to getting great jobs, 0:30:38.640 --> 0:30:40.640 and they're reaching back out to me and asking. 0:30:40.480 --> 0:30:42.520 Should I leave this job for this job? You know, 0:30:43.040 --> 0:30:44.440 here's here's what they're offering. 0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:47.360 And knowing that I've had that kind of impact on them, 0:30:47.760 --> 0:30:49.400 US CPS had that kind of impact to them for 0:30:49.440 --> 0:30:51.240 them to reach back out to I'm a mater and 0:30:51.320 --> 0:30:54.640 ask the college wrestling coach about career decisions, let me 0:30:54.720 --> 0:30:56.320 know we get the right thing by them. And these 0:30:56.360 --> 0:30:58.200 are not guys that were world leaders. These are guys 0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:01.040 that were just programmed guys, you know, back us pos. 0:31:00.920 --> 0:31:03.800 Starters and guys that may not have ever even started. 0:31:03.560 --> 0:31:06.160 For US are reaching back guy and asking the PUS about, Hey, coach, 0:31:06.240 --> 0:31:08.680 I have this opportunity. What do you think that right there, 0:31:08.720 --> 0:31:11.400 in my opinion, is the biggest championships. Knowing that I 0:31:11.560 --> 0:31:13.400 made an impact on the guy that much that he's 0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:15.720 willing to call and ask my opinion about. 0:31:15.480 --> 0:31:15.840 That, you know. 0:31:16.000 --> 0:31:19.600 And so when we started our USCP Wrestling Alumni group 0:31:19.720 --> 0:31:22.800 me where all these guys can talk and chop it up, 0:31:23.240 --> 0:31:26.400 and we have almost ninety guys in there, even tho 0:31:26.400 --> 0:31:28.200 old dudes that don't know much about technology. 0:31:28.240 --> 0:31:29.840 That lets me know, Hey, we're doing the right things. 0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:31.960 And this is where you we want to get you 0:31:32.240 --> 0:31:33.520 at the end of your career is to be a 0:31:33.560 --> 0:31:35.840 part of this fraternity, you know, so you can mix 0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:37.160 it up with guys that were that were here in 0:31:37.160 --> 0:31:39.480 the eighties and nineties and early two thousand. 0:31:39.800 --> 0:31:42.080 And guys guys like that. You know, guys, guys want 0:31:42.080 --> 0:31:43.440 to be a part of the fraternity. 0:31:43.600 --> 0:31:45.720 And that's why we're not afraid to tell a guy, hey, 0:31:45.840 --> 0:31:48.480 here's an offer. You know, this is where we feel 0:31:48.520 --> 0:31:51.600 you are, and if things change from a performance standpoint, 0:31:51.640 --> 0:31:52.960 academic standpoint. 0:31:52.640 --> 0:31:54.000 We're willing to up it. You know. 0:31:54.160 --> 0:31:56.240 But go shop yourself around, Go check out other schools, 0:31:56.280 --> 0:31:58.160 go see what's out there. So when you're done, he 0:31:58.280 --> 0:32:00.960 decided to be a brave You're no, there's nothing out 0:32:01.000 --> 0:32:03.520 there in the back of your mind that you're married 0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:04.960 to the right place, and. 0:32:05.040 --> 0:32:07.360 You can you can enjoy this decision and walk around 0:32:07.400 --> 0:32:09.520 here with your head up high and compete, you know, 0:32:09.640 --> 0:32:10.200 stress free. 0:32:10.840 --> 0:32:14.200 You know, Avery's having a phenomenal freshman year, you know, 0:32:14.560 --> 0:32:16.960 really good year, and we're very proud of him. But 0:32:16.960 --> 0:32:18.760 I can't tell how many conversations Amy and I have 0:32:18.880 --> 0:32:21.640 had where we're like, man, he's at the right plat 0:32:21.680 --> 0:32:23.040 And it's not because of how you know, it's not 0:32:23.040 --> 0:32:25.040 because he's starting as a true freshman. It's not because 0:32:25.280 --> 0:32:28.400 he's having some success. It's because, you know, those little 0:32:28.440 --> 0:32:31.520 conversations like we know when he came home for the 0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:33.520 for the winner, you know, we try to you know, 0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:35.479 we don't talk to him that much. When he's there, 0:32:35.520 --> 0:32:37.000 he'll reach out, you know, or whatever. 0:32:37.160 --> 0:32:38.960 We'll check out how's it going. But we got five 0:32:39.040 --> 0:32:40.360 other kids here, you know. I mean, not that we're 0:32:40.400 --> 0:32:40.960 I'm thinking about. 0:32:41.000 --> 0:32:43.680 But he's eighteen years old and he needs to figure 0:32:43.720 --> 0:32:46.560 stuff out and he's adjusting really well. But it's like, 0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:51.040 we know you are genuinely looking out for his best 0:32:51.120 --> 0:32:53.520 interests as a human being. And even he said when 0:32:53.520 --> 0:32:56.560 I picked him up for Thanksgiving and we're driving home 0:32:56.640 --> 0:32:58.840 and you know I'm having those conversations with him, how 0:32:58.880 --> 0:33:00.880 do you feel you know, do you like? And He's like, man, 0:33:00.960 --> 0:33:02.600 I know he loves me, Like I know he cares 0:33:02.640 --> 0:33:05.520 about me. He's like, it's so obvious how much Ot 0:33:05.720 --> 0:33:07.640 cares about me as a person. Like the wrestling is 0:33:07.680 --> 0:33:10.520 like a back burner thing. And I know for him, like, 0:33:11.040 --> 0:33:13.440 you know, could he potentially wrestle at the Division one level? 0:33:13.480 --> 0:33:13.720 Maybe? 0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:14.440 You know what I mean? 0:33:14.480 --> 0:33:14.760 Maybe? 0:33:15.760 --> 0:33:17.520 But I think with him, and I think in particular 0:33:17.560 --> 0:33:19.640 as a freshman, I think he would strugg I think 0:33:19.680 --> 0:33:22.560 some kids don't understand, like the jump it is from 0:33:22.640 --> 0:33:26.200 high school to collegiate athletics, and if you're especially in that. 0:33:26.200 --> 0:33:27.080 I don't even understand it. 0:33:27.080 --> 0:33:29.720 But especially in the sport of wrestling where I play 0:33:29.760 --> 0:33:32.400 college baseball, the commitment level from a wrestling standpoint, it's 0:33:32.480 --> 0:33:36.400 just a different It's a different level of discipline, a physicality, 0:33:36.880 --> 0:33:39.720 and I think that that grind if you're not having 0:33:39.800 --> 0:33:43.600 the opportunity to compete, like perform, like even the opportunity, 0:33:43.920 --> 0:33:45.520 I think it can shed a lot of kids away 0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:45.760 from this. 0:33:46.080 --> 0:33:47.240 Man, I don't want to do this anymore. 0:33:47.640 --> 0:33:50.000 So I think finding the right fit from a sport 0:33:50.120 --> 0:33:53.480 like wrestling is even more magnified, you know, to go 0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:56.360 where you belong to where you can have the most impact. 0:33:56.760 --> 0:33:59.160 That's just my perspective. But anyway, I want to just 0:33:59.200 --> 0:34:00.280 say we. 0:34:00.840 --> 0:34:03.600 Amy and I my wife are grateful that Avery found 0:34:03.720 --> 0:34:06.320 you and he's in the right We feel extremely confident 0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:08.359 and comfortable that he's at not only the right fit, 0:34:08.440 --> 0:34:10.080 but with the right coach and the right staff and 0:34:10.120 --> 0:34:12.600 the right teammates. So we're very grateful for that. As 0:34:12.640 --> 0:34:15.440 we wrap up, coach the sports parents want to hear it. Man, 0:34:15.480 --> 0:34:17.239 You've kind of shed light on a lot of things, 0:34:17.280 --> 0:34:19.440 but like you know, I always want to try to 0:34:19.600 --> 0:34:21.439 end with some sort of tidbit. You know, you're someone 0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:24.000 who's doing this every day. What's a piece of advice 0:34:24.040 --> 0:34:26.319 in a minute or two that can help these parents 0:34:26.360 --> 0:34:28.360 whose kids do want to be college athletes, you know, 0:34:28.440 --> 0:34:30.200 who do want to get seen, who do want to 0:34:30.200 --> 0:34:33.000 get recognized? How should they go about it? What are 0:34:33.040 --> 0:34:34.160 some pointers that you can give them? 0:34:34.680 --> 0:34:38.319 I mean, honestly, being in the trenches for damn here 0:34:38.400 --> 0:34:41.319 two decades now, man, is you know I've I've been 0:34:41.400 --> 0:34:42.080 super grateful. 0:34:42.400 --> 0:34:45.680 It's helped me and my wife as parents to you know, 0:34:46.000 --> 0:34:46.920 ask those questions. 0:34:47.160 --> 0:34:48.719 When is it too early to ask the question to 0:34:48.719 --> 0:34:51.800 your GC yourself playing college athletics, you know, And we 0:34:51.920 --> 0:34:54.120 were having a conversation all I remember when they happened, 0:34:54.280 --> 0:34:56.120 I think was during their softball season. 0:34:56.200 --> 0:34:57.640 Our door was like, yeah, I'm want to play I 0:34:57.719 --> 0:34:58.640 want to play college ball. 0:34:59.080 --> 0:35:01.080 And I told them my wife dad, and she was like, 0:35:01.239 --> 0:35:04.040 oh wow, really she does, you know, and she does 0:35:04.280 --> 0:35:06.719 great or her if she doesn't, oh well, you know, 0:35:07.640 --> 0:35:10.080 for me, one of the greatest things she's accomplished thus 0:35:10.120 --> 0:35:11.600 far in fourteen years of living. 0:35:12.160 --> 0:35:14.640 She made a straight A honor roll this fall. Nice 0:35:15.320 --> 0:35:16.400 and so right. 0:35:16.320 --> 0:35:20.000 There, that lets us know that she's she's putting herself 0:35:20.040 --> 0:35:21.600 in the right place to be a college athlete. 0:35:21.719 --> 0:35:21.880 You know. 0:35:22.040 --> 0:35:26.719 Unfortunately, I guess unfortunately, she's a female athlete and the 0:35:26.840 --> 0:35:29.799 path two millions are not as fast as the male 0:35:29.880 --> 0:35:33.000 athletes that are in baseball, basketball, and football. Right, So 0:35:33.680 --> 0:35:36.040 when she plays her college sports, if she plays her. 0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:38.440 College sports, you know, she's going to have to do something. 0:35:38.280 --> 0:35:41.000 Outside of that, just like these college wrestlers are going 0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:42.960 to have to do something outside of college athletics. So 0:35:43.360 --> 0:35:45.279 you know, just knowing that, you know, you have your 0:35:45.360 --> 0:35:47.520 kid's best interest at howard, you know. And if your 0:35:47.600 --> 0:35:51.000 kid does well in a particular sport, you know, congratulate them. 0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:53.200 But make this their journey, you know. And I think 0:35:53.239 --> 0:35:56.239 sometimes people crap on camps. One. You need to get 0:35:56.280 --> 0:35:58.600 your kid away from yourself. Take them to her camp, 0:35:58.680 --> 0:36:01.080 especially when they're in high school, and leave them alone. 0:36:01.400 --> 0:36:02.479 Let them go, let them. 0:36:02.360 --> 0:36:04.880 Spend the night, let him be with someone else, Let 0:36:04.960 --> 0:36:08.480 him be on a college campus or camp citing that's 0:36:08.600 --> 0:36:11.480 away from you, so they can understand, hey, mom and 0:36:11.560 --> 0:36:14.480 dad aren't here to coddle me, so to speak. And 0:36:14.600 --> 0:36:16.840 if your kid comes back and they enjoyed it and 0:36:16.960 --> 0:36:18.680 they don't text you or call you and say come 0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:21.320 get me, that's the first step. And I think a 0:36:21.400 --> 0:36:25.200 lot of parents do not have the confident to let 0:36:25.280 --> 0:36:25.759 their kid go. 0:36:27.000 --> 0:36:29.400 There are hundreds, there are thousands of camps out there 0:36:29.480 --> 0:36:30.640 now that you can send your kids too. 0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:32.759 If we can't have a camp at our school without 0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:35.520 having a background check on all of our athletes. Even 0:36:35.520 --> 0:36:37.720 though our athletes have to have some sort of background 0:36:37.800 --> 0:36:39.600 check to be in school, they all have to have 0:36:39.640 --> 0:36:41.400 a background check to even run out of camps. 0:36:41.880 --> 0:36:44.640 We have to have insurance, so letting your kid go 0:36:45.000 --> 0:36:45.719 what is a three. 0:36:45.719 --> 0:36:49.480 Four, five, seven day camp without you is paramount to 0:36:49.560 --> 0:36:51.080 seeing if they're ready for the next. 0:36:51.040 --> 0:36:53.280 Level, to see if they're ready to play college athletics. 0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:55.799 If you're willing to do that and your kid calls 0:36:55.880 --> 0:36:58.719 back or come back and express their enjoyment of the camp, 0:36:58.800 --> 0:36:59.160 I think. 0:36:59.040 --> 0:36:59.919 That's what the biggest step. 0:37:00.440 --> 0:37:04.520 And hey, stop asking for offers or start trying to 0:37:04.560 --> 0:37:08.040 go out there and beg for offers. Unfortunately, there's only 0:37:08.160 --> 0:37:11.240 so many no zions that are going to wow everyone 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:12.120 when he's high school. 0:37:12.160 --> 0:37:13.520 You know, you know, the Lebron James. 0:37:13.600 --> 0:37:16.160 I can't imagine if Lebron James are around when technology 0:37:16.239 --> 0:37:18.640 is as vast as it is now, you know, not 0:37:18.800 --> 0:37:22.080 everyone's going to get that sign or you know, offered 0:37:22.200 --> 0:37:24.160 a gazillion offers from gazilion schools. 0:37:24.400 --> 0:37:27.080 The opportunity to play college athletics, regardless of the division, 0:37:27.560 --> 0:37:28.280 is a privilege. 0:37:29.200 --> 0:37:31.759 And because your kid doesn't get offered by I don't 0:37:31.760 --> 0:37:34.120 know whatever big school doesn't make you less of a parent. 0:37:34.680 --> 0:37:36.960 Right now, I think people misunderstand that less than one 0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:39.440 percent of high school kids are going to play college sports. 0:37:39.600 --> 0:37:42.200 Now I said play college sports, I say get offers 0:37:42.239 --> 0:37:46.080 from scholarship unfortunately, and I wish we had full scholarship 0:37:46.080 --> 0:37:48.960 allowment at UNCP. I would say about sixty percent of 0:37:49.040 --> 0:37:51.640 our guys or walk off and they come here knowing that, Hey, 0:37:52.120 --> 0:37:53.960 I want to be a part of something bigger than myself. 0:37:54.760 --> 0:37:56.280 And it's okay for your kid. 0:37:56.160 --> 0:37:58.200 To not get an offer, and it's okay for your 0:37:58.280 --> 0:38:01.240 kid not to go on an official visit that means 0:38:02.120 --> 0:38:02.640 very little. 0:38:03.200 --> 0:38:05.480 That means very little. One of our best wrestlers in our. 0:38:05.440 --> 0:38:08.400 School history, Nick Daggett, came a one official visit, and 0:38:08.480 --> 0:38:11.279 that was after he came on three unofficial visits on 0:38:11.400 --> 0:38:14.800 his own dime. And I think that helped validate his 0:38:14.960 --> 0:38:17.400 decision to be a brave and be a Division two wrestler, 0:38:17.440 --> 0:38:20.200 which ultimately let him become a five time national qualifier, 0:38:20.239 --> 0:38:22.759 four time All American, five time academic All. 0:38:22.719 --> 0:38:24.680 American because he chose the right school. 0:38:25.200 --> 0:38:27.880 And I think that's important for parents to understand, is 0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:29.480 the right fit for your kid that's going to help 0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:33.080 him grow, help her succeed academically, help her grow socially, 0:38:33.640 --> 0:38:35.600 and who knows, they might enjoy it when they're there, 0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:37.759 and you don't want to send the next kid from 0:38:37.760 --> 0:38:41.120 their high school there and vouch for that place. And unfortunately, 0:38:41.600 --> 0:38:43.400 not every kid is going to come to UNCP, and 0:38:43.680 --> 0:38:46.200 I'm okay with that. You know, there are great Division two, 0:38:46.280 --> 0:38:48.920 Division three NAI Division one schools out there. Not every 0:38:48.960 --> 0:38:51.560 kids the Division one athlete, and parents need to be 0:38:51.560 --> 0:38:54.400 a understanding of that and that there are great Division two, 0:38:54.520 --> 0:38:57.919 Division three NAI teams out there for all sports where 0:38:58.000 --> 0:39:00.120 kids can go and have a great experience. I have 0:39:00.160 --> 0:39:02.560 a lot of success because ten twenty years from now, 0:39:02.640 --> 0:39:03.520 someone's going to ask. 0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:05.680 You you play college sports. You're gonna say yeah. 0:39:05.880 --> 0:39:09.240 They're gonna care zero about if there's Division one, Division 0:39:09.280 --> 0:39:12.640 two or Division three, and parents need to understand there. 0:39:12.560 --> 0:39:13.400 Are dogs out there. 0:39:13.760 --> 0:39:17.359 I'll be naive to think that Joe Seely or Bo 0:39:17.520 --> 0:39:20.279 Bassett is coming to UNCP. Those guys are going to 0:39:20.320 --> 0:39:22.680 be at the highest level because those guys are dogs. 0:39:23.280 --> 0:39:25.839 That's where they belong. They're different, that's just the reality, douition. 0:39:25.880 --> 0:39:28.240 They're different. Yeah, they're different. 0:39:28.560 --> 0:39:30.879 And your kid is not getting the offer from Penn State, 0:39:30.920 --> 0:39:33.280 Ohio State, NC State because he's not different. 0:39:33.640 --> 0:39:35.600 And that's okay. At the end of the day. 0:39:36.040 --> 0:39:38.280 I think people need to realize that there are levels 0:39:38.320 --> 0:39:40.600 to this and that's why those guys and girls get 0:39:40.640 --> 0:39:43.160 the offer they get because they're built different. 0:39:43.560 --> 0:39:44.120 Man. I love it. 0:39:44.320 --> 0:39:46.160 Just you know what one thing I always want to 0:39:46.160 --> 0:39:48.959 make sure is people are coming on here. This is real, live, 0:39:49.320 --> 0:39:51.879 firsthand insight and it's going to be unfiltered like it's true. 0:39:51.880 --> 0:39:53.879 If you can't handle the truth, then don't ask the question, 0:39:53.960 --> 0:39:56.239 don't listen. But at the end of the day, you 0:39:56.360 --> 0:39:58.279 got a man right here, who's you know, doing at 0:39:58.280 --> 0:40:00.719 the highest level Division two for years. Who's shooting it 0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:01.320 straight with you? 0:40:01.440 --> 0:40:01.560 Man? 0:40:01.719 --> 0:40:04.879 Just find the right fit coach. Ot can't thank you enough, 0:40:05.000 --> 0:40:07.920 my man, great friend, great coach. Grateful my son's wrestling 0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:09.759 for going, Hey, going to Natti this year. 0:40:09.840 --> 0:40:11.520 You guys, Man, let's get it. 0:40:11.560 --> 0:40:13.439 We're gonna give them hell man, we're gonna We're gonna 0:40:13.440 --> 0:40:15.080 push these guys. We've got a couple of months here 0:40:15.120 --> 0:40:16.800 before we get to the dance and you know, we 0:40:16.920 --> 0:40:18.719 still got some work to do. Obviously, ninth in the 0:40:18.760 --> 0:40:21.239 country is awesome, but it's not the end goal. The 0:40:21.320 --> 0:40:23.200 end goal is to get these guys growing as men 0:40:23.520 --> 0:40:24.640 and ultimately. 0:40:24.400 --> 0:40:26.840 To you know, push ourselves a little further on the ranking. 0:40:27.360 --> 0:40:29.720 I guess a little lower on their ranking, but we're 0:40:29.760 --> 0:40:31.600 super excited for the way our guys are growing as 0:40:31.640 --> 0:40:33.800 a team, how much they love each other and you 0:40:33.880 --> 0:40:35.719 know how much to back each other, and you know 0:40:35.760 --> 0:40:37.240 how much they want to see such succeeds. 0:40:37.239 --> 0:40:39.080 So we're ready to make this last push here for 0:40:39.800 --> 0:40:41.320 for our championship. Run O T. 0:40:41.520 --> 0:40:42.960 Johnson. I appreciate you coming on. 0:40:43.120 --> 0:40:46.320 Dog, appreciate it, man, keep doing your thing. Everybody. 0:40:46.360 --> 0:40:49.560 Make sure you guys go out there, support, subscribe, leave 0:40:49.600 --> 0:40:51.920 a rating, and let's get the worst spread. 0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:53.239 Nick is doing a great job. 0:40:53.320 --> 0:40:55.800 And uh, super proud of you, man, Super proud of 0:40:55.840 --> 0:40:58.000 what you're doing, and super proud of being a part 0:40:58.040 --> 0:41:00.439 of this. Looking forward to listening to pod and hearing 0:41:00.520 --> 0:41:03.600 more and more successful big time come on here, and 0:41:04.040 --> 0:41:04.759 you know, thanks you. 0:41:04.840 --> 0:41:06.560 For allowing me to be a part of these legends 0:41:06.600 --> 0:41:07.279 that you're bringing on. 0:41:07.680 --> 0:41:09.960 Man, you're one of them. Man, I appreciate you. That's 0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:10.800 coach Othello. 0:41:11.000 --> 0:41:14.800 Ot Johnson, sportspirit and head wrestling coach at the University 0:41:14.840 --> 0:41:17.720 of North Carolina, Pembrooke. Thanks for listening to the Reform 0:41:17.800 --> 0:41:21.080 Sports podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode, we would appreciate 0:41:21.120 --> 0:41:22.840 it if you took a moment to rate and review 0:41:22.880 --> 0:41:25.160 our podcast. As we work to grow our community of 0:41:25.200 --> 0:41:29.280 supporters and advocates for more reform sports content, please subscribe 0:41:29.320 --> 0:41:32.279 to our newsletter and blog at Reformsports Project dot com. 0:41:32.480 --> 0:41:36.240 You can also follow us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, and LinkedIn.