Speaker 1: Just understanding that is okay to not be pens all
Speaker 1: is okay. Your kid will be fine if you trust
Speaker 1: a person that you've enlisted.
Speaker 2: To coach your kid or teach your.
Speaker 1: Kid, back up and let them do their job that
Speaker 1: they've been hired to do.
Speaker 3: This is the Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring
Speaker 3: healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through
Speaker 3: education and advocacy. Hi, this is Nick Bonacor from the
Speaker 3: Reform Sports Podcast. Today, I'm welcoming back coach O Fellow
Speaker 3: Oten Johnson to the pod. Coach Johnson is in his
Speaker 3: thirteenth season at the helm of the UNCU Pembrooke wrestling program.
Speaker 3: He is also a sports parent and the founder of
Speaker 3: Johnson Athletic Camps.
Speaker 4: Ot and I.
Speaker 3: Discuss his new role as a softball parent, the importance
Speaker 3: of letting others teach and coach your children, and his
Speaker 3: perspective on today's college recruiting landscape. My man, I mean
Speaker 3: this one is near and dear to my heart. He
Speaker 3: was a guest early on a couple years ago, right
Speaker 3: when the pot went live. A lot has changed since then.
Speaker 3: Now my sawn is wrestling for him in college. Turned
Speaker 3: into a really good friend, just a great human being.
Speaker 3: The head wrestling coach at the University of North Carolina
Speaker 3: Pembrooke Othello, Ot Johnson, coach, thanks so much for hopping out,
Speaker 3: man a man, appreciate.
Speaker 1: You, man, thanks for bringing back, you know, trying to
Speaker 1: be one of the ogs to you know, give a
Speaker 1: second invitation. I don't know why. I mean, obviously he's
Speaker 1: had coach J. C. Hoyd on this joint. You have
Speaker 1: dabble on here, you have Coach Murphy me. I don't
Speaker 1: know what the heck. Maybe you just feeling sorry for
Speaker 1: me to bring me back on. But hey, we're going
Speaker 1: to make it happy.
Speaker 2: Let's get it.
Speaker 4: Listen.
Speaker 3: Well, like I said, now my son's wrestling for you.
Speaker 3: We've been through that whole process. But another thing that's
Speaker 3: going on here in the last few years i've heard
Speaker 3: from you is, I mean, obviously you're a parent, you're
Speaker 3: a sportsman, but you've turned into like softball dad. Right,
Speaker 3: you're a softball dad, you're a softball coach.
Speaker 4: And man, listen, I've got you know, I've been on the.
Speaker 3: Baseball scene, but I've heard you know, I've been around
Speaker 3: softball plenty, and I've talked to plenty of people involved.
Speaker 4: What does that look like, man?
Speaker 3: I mean, you and your wife both phenomenal athletes in
Speaker 3: college and coaches yourselves, both of you. What's it like
Speaker 3: being on the on the travel softball see as parents?
Speaker 2: Man, I have seen some crazy parents. Man.
Speaker 1: You know, when you hear the term people living through
Speaker 1: their kids, these freaking parents are literally living through their kids.
Speaker 1: And Nick, I think one of the greatest thing that
Speaker 1: happened to my wife and myself and our kids, our daughter,
Speaker 1: the one that's currently on the travel scene, is the
Speaker 1: fact that you know, we've both played at the highest level,
Speaker 1: at least for us, you know, we've played at the
Speaker 1: college level, and I think each and every day we
Speaker 1: don't have to scratch an itch like some of these
Speaker 1: parents feel like they need to, and they try to
Speaker 1: live vicariously to their kids, you know, I think I
Speaker 1: think that's one of the most alarming things in the
Speaker 1: world now, not just with sports parents, but specifically as
Speaker 1: we're speaking of sports parents, you know, is that they
Speaker 1: feel like if their kid does well, you know, that
Speaker 1: validates their parenting. And then it's the furthest thing from
Speaker 1: the truth. So I watch it from within our team.
Speaker 1: I watch it from within other teams. As you're walking
Speaker 1: out of the stadium from these tournaments, you hear parents
Speaker 1: just digging in on their their daughters, you know, And honestly, Nick, somebody,
Speaker 1: these parents, I don't know if they care if their
Speaker 1: kids team win or not. Sometimes they just want to
Speaker 1: make sure that they can get a good picture of
Speaker 1: their kid in their uniform, whether it's a live plan
Speaker 1: or if they're just them on the field. For them,
Speaker 1: that's the validation that they get, is that click, and
Speaker 1: you know, they want.
Speaker 2: To better get that bad for their kids. So when
Speaker 2: their kid hits the ball, they have enough pictures.
Speaker 1: And people are crazy, man, They're able to fabricate their stats.
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's you softball.
Speaker 1: So how many people on Facebook are going to go
Speaker 1: back and validate what truly happened? You know, honestly, no
Speaker 1: one really cares. So no one cares to go back
Speaker 1: and validates those things. And so some people are willing
Speaker 1: to fabricate the truth and make up things just so
Speaker 1: they can get the clicks on their buddies.
Speaker 2: And you know, so when they go to the wine
Speaker 2: and cheese crowd, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Susie's doing so softball aren't just propriud
Speaker 1: of her. Some people, that's all they want to hear.
Speaker 1: And that's sick. It is sick, is disgusting. And what
Speaker 1: we've noticed is when these girls don't make the games
Speaker 1: that their moms or dads think that you'd.
Speaker 2: Be making, they quit.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not gonna name any names, but I've
Speaker 1: seen one of the most disgusting things that I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: A kid that was playing on our team, you know,
Speaker 1: or some time back, didn't have the game that her
Speaker 1: parents wanted to have. So at the end of the game,
Speaker 1: I'll coach again. Mind you, this guy has no child
Speaker 1: on the team. We were able to convince him to
Speaker 1: start this team back up, so you know, our daughter,
Speaker 1: you know, self speaking, can have someone outside of us
Speaker 1: to coach her.
Speaker 2: So this man is doing it for free. Him and
Speaker 2: his wife take time out.
Speaker 1: Of their busy lives, from their jobs and his business
Speaker 1: to do this for free because he loves the sport
Speaker 1: of softball. Obviously, his daughter went on to play at
Speaker 1: Division one softball and this man is giving a post
Speaker 1: tournament speech and he gets interrupted by the parent, and
Speaker 1: this parent yells er her daughter to come on this
Speaker 1: g you know, we all like we're dumbfound They're like,
Speaker 1: what's going on? And the daughter doesn't move, and the
Speaker 1: parents yells at the daughter, da da da da da,
Speaker 1: get over here now. And so one, you're embarrassed for
Speaker 1: the daughter because now this parent, you know, it's so
Speaker 1: within themselves because their daughter didn't get us much playing
Speaker 1: time in a certain position. And now you put the
Speaker 1: coach in the craziest spot. You put your daughter in
Speaker 1: the craziest pot. Because now all of our friends at
Speaker 1: thirteen years old are wondering like, is this parent crazy?
Speaker 1: What's the parent?
Speaker 2: What's crazy? At the time, So, you know.
Speaker 1: Just watching that scenario, let me know, my goodness, man,
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that I play college sports, and I'm
Speaker 1: so happy that I see every day in my program
Speaker 1: what some of these kids have to go through because
Speaker 1: their parents want them to be so good, so much
Speaker 1: in the sport, and then forget the real life lessons
Speaker 1: that their.
Speaker 2: Kids are supposed to getting out of athletics. And I
Speaker 2: think we're in for it.
Speaker 1: I think it's going to get worse, unfortunately, and I
Speaker 1: think people only see the small piece of it because
Speaker 1: they're only watching the Power Files on TV. And they
Speaker 1: don't see what it goes down in the trenches. So
Speaker 1: it has a softball parent as wild.
Speaker 3: So I want to unpack that a little bit because
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff you said I can certainly relate
Speaker 3: to from coaching standpoint.
Speaker 4: From I've been very fortunate.
Speaker 3: I haven't had that crazy of a situation, but I've
Speaker 3: had like you know, the circles at form over here,
Speaker 3: and it's almost like rebellion, and then it's like these
Speaker 3: clicks a parent and it's like it's like middle school again,
Speaker 3: like oh.
Speaker 4: We're gonna do this, you know, we're gonna start this team,
Speaker 4: and it's like, what is this all about?
Speaker 3: So you mentioned, you know, being a college athlete was
Speaker 3: an advantage, and I argue that as well. If you
Speaker 3: played at a certain level, it kind of allows you
Speaker 3: to take.
Speaker 4: A step back.
Speaker 3: And I love how you said you don't have to
Speaker 3: scratch that itch, right you you feel fulfilled in your
Speaker 3: own athletic career. It's not about you anymore. But how
Speaker 3: do you separate You're in a unique position because you
Speaker 3: are a high level college coach. I mean, you coach
Speaker 3: one of the best Division two wrestling programs in the
Speaker 3: country right now currently ranked in the top ten nationally.
Speaker 3: So how do you compartmentalize the coaching aspect and the
Speaker 3: sports parent aspect Because you obviously want to see your
Speaker 3: daughter succeed and you're a competitor, do you have to
Speaker 3: because I almost feel like at times we need to
Speaker 3: give people examples on how to pause. I feel like
Speaker 3: the word pause is so critical because listen, I'll get hyped.
Speaker 4: Up watching my kids compete.
Speaker 3: I can get excited for them, but I feel like
Speaker 3: I'm at a point where I can take a step
Speaker 3: back and just be the fan. So how do you
Speaker 3: become the fan versus the coaches enemy or get over
Speaker 3: about like where does the line get.
Speaker 4: Crossed with over zealous? Like crazy? Sports pair? Do you think?
Speaker 1: Well, as I say all those things as a competitor,
Speaker 1: you know, as a competitor, I understand that the end
Speaker 1: goal is to win. I'm not discounting that that we
Speaker 1: want to win. So in the process of trying to win,
Speaker 1: we have to make sure the girls practice the right way,
Speaker 1: they show up when they're supposed to show up. And
Speaker 1: you know, my daughter has missed one practice for a
Speaker 1: travel ball team. One and that one practice you missed
Speaker 1: was because she wanted to attend the ceremony for a
Speaker 1: long time staying head coach at UNCP coach, we just
Speaker 1: missed ceremony at UNCP.
Speaker 2: So she's missed one practice for a draftball team won.
Speaker 1: And so it's never been about her winning or her
Speaker 1: getting this shine. There's always been about you know, instilling
Speaker 1: these you know, these behaviors, these.
Speaker 2: Life characteristics in her.
Speaker 1: Hey, when you sign up for a thing, you got
Speaker 1: to show up for that thing, and the result is irrelevant.
Speaker 1: The fact of the matter is, you know, we're going
Speaker 1: to instill in you that, Hey, you say you want
Speaker 1: to be a softball player on this team, You're going
Speaker 1: to show up. You know, we've left family vacations early
Speaker 1: to get back to be there for her practices. I
Speaker 1: think some of the issues with some people is that,
Speaker 1: you know, they only want to play when it's time
Speaker 1: to play games.
Speaker 2: You know, the games are one before you ever step
Speaker 2: out there. And I think one of the issues that.
Speaker 1: Some of these parents struggle with is that, you know,
Speaker 1: they sign up for something, they're over zealous with how
Speaker 1: cool it sounds, but they don't understand the commitment that
Speaker 1: it's going to take to get their daughter to practice
Speaker 1: every single time, you know, and and and some.
Speaker 2: People might think we're crazy, but Nick comal, I know
Speaker 2: what an injury is. I know when the girl is
Speaker 2: hurt or one guy is hurt.
Speaker 1: You know, some people freak out when their daughter her
Speaker 1: InKo the wrong way. Well, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you know, she's gonna get up, should be fine. I
Speaker 1: don't need to run out there. My wife doesn't run
Speaker 1: out there. Coach Johnny most time, we don't need him
Speaker 1: to run out there.
Speaker 2: Once.
Speaker 1: She has to learn how to compete with herself mentally
Speaker 1: and too, she has to learn that, hey, if this
Speaker 1: was the championship game of the you know, the big
Speaker 1: Cuth World.
Speaker 2: Series, is she gonna pull herself out?
Speaker 1: Is she gonna want to be involved? And I think
Speaker 1: some people misunderstand the life lesson that the sports will teach,
Speaker 1: you know, before the competition never starts. So for us,
Speaker 1: we've been there, we understand that. And honestly, you know,
Speaker 1: my wife coaches high school ball, varsity basketball, and varsity volleyball,
Speaker 1: so we've seen crazy parents on both the college level
Speaker 1: and in the high school level. We've dealt with crazy parents,
Speaker 1: and so I think that puts us in a better position,
Speaker 1: you know, unfortunately and fortunately to be able to deal
Speaker 1: with you know, crazy when we see it, but also
Speaker 1: to pull ourselves back and say, hey, this is her moment,
Speaker 1: This is their moment. And the funny thing about that is,
Speaker 1: you know, we have a younger dog, her that we
Speaker 1: allow to play.
Speaker 2: But you know, she had.
Speaker 1: An offer to go play on a travel ball eight
Speaker 1: you team, a travel eight.
Speaker 2: You team one.
Speaker 1: My wife and I made a joke about it. Ruby
Speaker 1: got her first offer.
Speaker 2: To play on a travel eight you team.
Speaker 1: What the heck?
Speaker 2: Come on, what's the seven year old going to go
Speaker 2: travel to play for? Like?
Speaker 1: Come on, One, we're all over the place right now
Speaker 1: as parents with our own responsibility as coaches.
Speaker 2: And two, we have an older daughter that never did
Speaker 2: any of these things.
Speaker 1: She never became serious about sports, you know, to a
Speaker 1: point where we say, okay, what she does want to
Speaker 1: do it killed by eleven years old. So why the
Speaker 1: heck will we even bother putting our seven year old
Speaker 1: in that position to get that serious about it that,
Speaker 1: you know, because you know, Murphy's watching and he's getting
Speaker 1: ready to come get.
Speaker 2: Her at eight years old, you know, you know, or
Speaker 2: the coach.
Speaker 1: At UNCP I'll use that since it's closer to home.
Speaker 1: Is watching her at eight years old so she can
Speaker 1: come and a recruiter come on, you know. So I
Speaker 1: think being in the trenches as athletes and being the
Speaker 1: trenches as coaches kind of you know, put out of
Speaker 1: things in pon for us and then say this, I
Speaker 1: ain't gonna lie to save this a whole hell of
Speaker 1: a lot of money and and a whole lot of
Speaker 1: family time. So I'm not sure if I completely answer
Speaker 1: your question, but and I think I think being in
Speaker 1: the transit has really helped us, and both of us
Speaker 1: being in the transites as college athlete.
Speaker 2: And I give my wife most of the credit.
Speaker 1: I mean, she was a dog man, she played basketball
Speaker 1: and ran track and cross country in college.
Speaker 2: So she doesn't either.
Speaker 1: She doesn't need to distract that she's doing it not
Speaker 1: because she wants to be around athletics and she wants
Speaker 1: to see growth in the female sport and as a
Speaker 1: female helping young girls. She gets validation from that, not
Speaker 1: not to see nor you know, be the best on
Speaker 1: our team. Wish the goal is to be the best
Speaker 1: and to work to be the best.
Speaker 2: But if she's not, you.
Speaker 1: Know, it doesn't It doesn't change anything. It doesn't change
Speaker 1: what kind of love we have for her.
Speaker 3: I was thinking about this earlier because you know, you
Speaker 3: and I came together through the sport of wrestling, obviously,
Speaker 3: and I had never I was thinking about this recently
Speaker 3: because my second oldest son, Tyler, is you know, he's
Speaker 3: in the senior year of high school and he's going
Speaker 3: to be you know, done wrestling here and another, you know,
Speaker 3: another little bit of time as season winds down, and
Speaker 3: you know, you and I, you know, Willie Hillton shout
Speaker 3: out slide Fox wrestling cover boy. We always chat about
Speaker 3: kind of the history, and as said lately, I've been
Speaker 3: getting a little.
Speaker 4: Nostalgic about it.
Speaker 3: But you know, one of the things that I think
Speaker 3: attracted me so much the sport of wrestling, And I
Speaker 3: would argue that every sports parents should do this if
Speaker 3: they have some sort of background in a particular sport.
Speaker 3: Up until Tyler and Avery got involved with wrestling, my
Speaker 3: kids were only involved in sports that I had played.
Speaker 3: I was coaching football and I played high school football.
Speaker 3: I was coaching baseball, I played collegiate a little professional baseball.
Speaker 3: I played basketball rec basketball, was coaching basketball.
Speaker 4: They were playing that.
Speaker 3: So up until wrestling, I think I introduced them to lacrosse,
Speaker 3: but they really weren't, you know, into it that much.
Speaker 3: But up until wrestling, and I fell in love with
Speaker 3: the sport because it was the first time that I
Speaker 3: could be a parent.
Speaker 4: And not know what the hell I was taught.
Speaker 3: I had nothing to offer from from a standpoint of
Speaker 3: like advice. You know, I know what effort is, I
Speaker 3: know what competing is, I know what listening to the
Speaker 3: coaches and shout out to Willy again, like first time
Speaker 3: he went into SLI Fox Wrestling Club and you've probably.
Speaker 4: Heard this before.
Speaker 3: Tyler and Avery are there, and I think Tyler was
Speaker 3: one or two of them. They were talking or whatever,
Speaker 3: and I think I yelled. I didn't yell, but I
Speaker 3: was like, hey, guys, pay attention. And Willy just looked
Speaker 3: over to me and said, Nick, I got it. And
Speaker 3: I was like, all right, I'm done. Like I don't
Speaker 3: got to ever say a word right then and there,
Speaker 3: I knew I was in the right club. But from
Speaker 3: that experience, it allowed me to step back and I
Speaker 3: was like, I can't offer advice if I wanted to
Speaker 3: about technique or how they can get better and I
Speaker 3: was like, Man, I think this is.
Speaker 4: The way it's supposed to be.
Speaker 3: I'm just supposed to sit back and like enjoy watching
Speaker 3: them compete. They say ignorance is bliss, and I think
Speaker 3: that was the first time that I really, you know,
Speaker 3: experienced that in it unlocked this like different perspective where
Speaker 3: it almost took a lot of pressure off.
Speaker 4: Like I don't call it reform sports project for any reason.
Speaker 4: I used to be. I got caught up in those weeds.
Speaker 3: So I almost feel like if parents can get involved
Speaker 3: with something they don't know and just enjoy the moment,
Speaker 3: it can really open things up. And I don't know
Speaker 3: what your thoughts are on that, but I think it
Speaker 3: was good.
Speaker 2: Man. I have an amazing story al B PJ. Smith.
Speaker 2: You know the goat.
Speaker 1: So when my wife and I we're in grad school.
Speaker 1: Coach Smith legend UNCP Athletics, D two.
Speaker 2: Hall of Famer and Wrestling Hall of Famer.
Speaker 1: He taught hundreds of people, by the thousands of people,
Speaker 1: He's taught thousands of people swim lessons at u NCP.
Speaker 1: And when we got there, you know, one of the
Speaker 1: ways that coach knew he could get back to his
Speaker 1: wrestler former wrestler to people involved in the sport and
Speaker 1: just student athletes in general, students that wanted to work
Speaker 1: in grind was he would hire.
Speaker 2: Students in the summer to do swim school, and so
Speaker 2: he hired us.
Speaker 1: We freaking both went and got our swimming certification to
Speaker 1: be swim instructors, and we did the swim school for
Speaker 1: a couple of years. And then when Nora became of
Speaker 1: age to take the swim lessons, you know, we kind
Speaker 1: of like dropped her off because she did the first class,
Speaker 1: you know, and so we put her down there and
Speaker 1: she's getting ready to do the swimming and she's falling
Speaker 1: her eyes out, yell, and I get up and try
Speaker 1: to go over there and try to help her out,
Speaker 1: and Coach smiths it, get out of here. What do
Speaker 1: you think because you work here, you're gonna get special treatment.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh my god, a light bulb went off, Nick,
Speaker 1: And I'm like.
Speaker 2: The dude's freaking right. This is not your domain, Like
Speaker 2: is your child.
Speaker 1: If you want to teach swimming, go teach another class.
Speaker 1: Let your kid beat, you know, let your kids suffer.
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with that. And from there on, my
Speaker 1: wife and I would get up to the pool, we'll
Speaker 1: drop her off, we'll walk downstairs, we'll go walk around
Speaker 1: the Jones building, maybe grab basketball and just go shoot around.
Speaker 1: She'll beat me up in a quick game of a
Speaker 1: one on one, and then an hour later we'll come
Speaker 1: back up there.
Speaker 2: And you know, we did that for the first.
Speaker 1: Couple of times, and she will cry when we leave,
Speaker 1: and then we get back she'll be fine. And so
Speaker 1: just understanding that is okay to not be hands on
Speaker 1: is okay.
Speaker 2: Your kid will be fine if you.
Speaker 1: Trust the person that you've enlisted to coach your kid
Speaker 1: or teach your kid, back up and let them do
Speaker 1: their job that they've been to do. You know, it
Speaker 1: is about your kids learning to be around other people,
Speaker 1: trust other people, and learn from other people.
Speaker 2: You're not going to be the only teacher in your
Speaker 2: kid's life. And we do that all the.
Speaker 1: Time for teachers in school. We'll freaking drop our kids
Speaker 1: off in the morning and leave them for them near
Speaker 1: eight hours.
Speaker 4: Best time of the day, by the way. Oh my god,
Speaker 4: I love it, you know.
Speaker 2: So, then what the heck do you feel like?
Speaker 1: Noah as athletes for more athletes or people that watch YouTube,
Speaker 1: and when I hated to throw a softball.
Speaker 2: What kind of validation do I have that I have.
Speaker 1: To go get in the coach's face to say, hey, Nora,
Speaker 1: do this this?
Speaker 2: No, shut up, Otiq, go sit down over there. If
Speaker 2: I'm helping out. And I think it's been one of
Speaker 2: the greatest thing. And sometimes White gets mad at me, like,
Speaker 2: don't have in the safe. No, I don't have any the.
Speaker 1: Same And you remember this, Nick, when Nora got involved
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago and I was asking you some.
Speaker 2: Cues, I'm like, Okay, what is not my thing?
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna And we've been super lucky, man. I mean,
Speaker 1: Coach Brady has been awesome. His fan has been awesome,
Speaker 1: to the girls on the Wildcast team, you know, to
Speaker 1: have someone again, he doesn't have a dog in a fight.
Speaker 1: The only dog he has in a fight is he
Speaker 1: loves the sport and he wants to see this for
Speaker 1: Gornall County.
Speaker 2: You know, it's just to back up and just let
Speaker 2: it be. And I think again that that that that interaction.
Speaker 1: With Coach Smith and nor in swim lessons was one
Speaker 1: I think one of the best lessons I learned as
Speaker 1: a young parent. And that lesson is gone with me
Speaker 1: a long time. And you know, and I think you
Speaker 1: had Oh my god, who was that you had?
Speaker 2: On the pod? A Lexi? He talked. He talked about
Speaker 2: people paying for their kids to play things.
Speaker 1: You know, and I'll be the first one to say,
Speaker 1: we pay for private lessons for our daughter to pitch.
Speaker 1: We pay for private basketball lesson for her to get
Speaker 1: ball hand on the skills because it gets her away.
Speaker 2: From us and it gets her listening to someone else.
Speaker 1: And you can attest to this. When you coach your kid,
Speaker 1: it's like you got double homes on your head. They
Speaker 1: don't listen to you, and you know, they think you're crazy.
Speaker 1: That's same exact lesson you're trying to teach them. Someone
Speaker 1: else that's not Mom or Dad starts teaching them that lesson.
Speaker 1: They're all ears, they're focused, and they do it. And
Speaker 1: you got to make a decision. Are you investing in
Speaker 1: your kid enough to lest someone else teach them.
Speaker 2: The same thing you're teaching them, or are you such
Speaker 2: a great coach?
Speaker 1: Nick Saban, Bill Belichick, you know, Marvin Lewis and Tony
Speaker 1: Dungee and all those people that you're not going to
Speaker 1: step off and let someone else do the work for
Speaker 1: you that you believe that not to do. My wife
Speaker 1: is a great basketball player, but you know, she understands
Speaker 1: and I understand that. Hey. One, that gives us time
Speaker 1: to just sit back and relax and watch and see
Speaker 1: how she responds to someone else. And two, it gives
Speaker 1: her a chance and it gives them a chance to
Speaker 1: absorb teaching and coaching from someone else. So I think
Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest advantage of not knowing the
Speaker 1: sport that well.
Speaker 2: It is the fact that you can step back, let.
Speaker 1: Someone else coach your kid, let someone else educate your kid,
Speaker 1: just like we do in education, you know, for us,
Speaker 1: for people that are not teachers, you let other people
Speaker 1: educate your kid on a daily basis, five days a week.
Speaker 1: So why not do the same one you have an
Speaker 1: athlete that you think is aspiring to be the best,
Speaker 1: and I think people miss that point. And so you
Speaker 1: have all these daddy ball coaches that you know, just
Speaker 1: got off the couch and you know, watch a couple
Speaker 1: of YouTube videos and they want going to you know,
Speaker 1: be the next you know Dabbo and coach Tsinski and
Speaker 1: World Williams. So I think people missed the boat there.
Speaker 1: There's only one jobs, man, there's only one KALs Anderson.
Speaker 1: You know, those guys are where they are and they've
Speaker 1: been there for how long they've been there because you know,
Speaker 1: they understand athletes, they understand coach, and they understand more
Speaker 1: than the single legs and double legs.
Speaker 2: They understand how to motivate people. And that's why they've
Speaker 2: lasted so long their in their domain.
Speaker 3: When we return, OT and I discussed recruiting and the
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Speaker 3: This season, where we left off, Ot and I were
Speaker 3: about to discuss how NIL has impacted sports at the
Speaker 3: D two level and the current college recruiting landscape. I
Speaker 3: want to dig in a little bit with you because
Speaker 3: first and foremost, you are coaching at the you know,
Speaker 3: the highest level of Division two, and there's been a
Speaker 3: lot that's changed since last time you came on the pod.
Speaker 4: You know, NIL was talked about.
Speaker 3: Of course, the transfer porter wasn't played, but name, image, likeness,
Speaker 3: NIL has become I mean mainstream. I mean it seems
Speaker 3: like every say, the landscape of college athletics and recruiting
Speaker 3: and everything has just changed so much. You know, at
Speaker 3: the quote unquote Power five level, which I'm sure there'll
Speaker 3: be a new name for that here soon. It's it's
Speaker 3: pro sports, you know, particularly football and basketball. But what
Speaker 3: does the landscape look like? I guess from you know,
Speaker 3: the way all the shifting has taken place from a
Speaker 3: recruiting standpoint, how has that impacted the Division two level,
Speaker 3: And if you could just kind of give us your
Speaker 3: perspective on.
Speaker 4: The way the college landscape.
Speaker 2: Is right now.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think we'll brag on you and
Speaker 1: Avery and just your family in general. I think I
Speaker 1: think no matter where this goes, including for Power five,
Speaker 1: there's nothing that's ever going.
Speaker 2: To replace the relationship aspect of.
Speaker 1: Recruiting, you know. And I like to credit all the
Speaker 1: guys that I've had helped me out with coaching, assistant
Speaker 1: coaches that have gone on to now currently run their
Speaker 1: own programs.
Speaker 2: And just you know, and my.
Speaker 1: Mentors that I've had in past, coach coach.
Speaker 2: Gibbs, that that really helped me understand.
Speaker 1: You know, if you want to be a great recruiter,
Speaker 1: you know, being a great recruiter makes you a great coach.
Speaker 2: You're going to recruit the right kids, and you're gonna
Speaker 2: have to build relationships, you know. And in some days
Speaker 2: I wonder, sometimes, man, am I.
Speaker 1: Putting too much into this whereas taken away from my
Speaker 1: own family? And yes, that's that's the sacrifice I have
Speaker 1: to make. And I think watching my daughter being able
Speaker 1: to do what she does. You know, she's heard me
Speaker 1: on phone calls.
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes she has to acquire her sister down.
Speaker 1: Hey, be quiet, data is on the phone with a recruit.
Speaker 1: Nothing replaces that relationship that you build with an athlete.
Speaker 2: They have to trust you.
Speaker 1: You know a lot of these coaches that just run
Speaker 1: up to a kid when they see him at a
Speaker 1: big tournament and do well, and all of a sudden
Speaker 1: start making offers to them. You know, we're all motivated
Speaker 1: in some way for more faction by money, right, so when.
Speaker 2: Someone comes diggling and dingling an offer in.
Speaker 1: Front of you, a X amount of dollars, you forget.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you know, hey, wait a minute, there's another part
Speaker 1: of this that I need to remember. You know, my
Speaker 1: recruiting process is bigger than just how much money someone
Speaker 1: can offer me. And so when you talk about recruiting,
Speaker 1: we always make sure with the assessment of COVID time
Speaker 1: where people can visit campus.
Speaker 2: We try to get every single kid on our campus,
Speaker 2: no matter how long we talk to them, no matter
Speaker 2: how great the relationship is.
Speaker 1: You need to be in the physical with us, around
Speaker 1: us in our domain to feel that connection, you know,
Speaker 1: so to speak, and if you don't do that for me.
Speaker 2: You know, it's really hard for me to feel comfortable.
Speaker 1: Bring you on our roster, bring you in our program,
Speaker 1: bring you into our campus, bring you into unc prembroke.
Speaker 1: You know, we don't want everyone at UNCP. We don't
Speaker 1: need everyone at UNCP. It takes a special person to
Speaker 1: be a brave wrestler. You have to be brave tough.
Speaker 1: You can start off as brave, but eventually gonna have
Speaker 1: to become tough. And we need to find out does
Speaker 1: this person have the potential to be brave tough, you know?
Speaker 1: And can they stay with us for four or five
Speaker 1: years if it takes that long for them as lost
Speaker 1: to eligibility, we're rare shirting, and so I think a
Speaker 1: lot of times there are a lot of dudes and
Speaker 1: girls out there that miss that boat on the relationship
Speaker 1: aspect of the recruiting process. And when they do that,
Speaker 1: it's when you see the max exodus in these programs.
Speaker 1: With the portal and another thing, Nick, just about ninety
Speaker 1: nine percent of the kids I've recruited, I've made sure
Speaker 1: when they made a decision, and in most cases not
Speaker 1: us because our board is usually sixty to seventy guys big,
Speaker 1: we're not going to get all those guys. I make
Speaker 1: sure I keep a good relationship with those kids and
Speaker 1: congratulate them wherever they go, because again, like you said,
Speaker 1: we're talking about the porter right that portal is jumping
Speaker 1: right now, and in about two and a half months
Speaker 1: from a wrestling standpoint, it's going to be jumping even more.
Speaker 2: And I can't wait. I love the Porter.
Speaker 1: I think it's probably one of the greatest thing because
Speaker 1: the coaches that tell the kid, well, good luck, we're
Speaker 1: going to pinion and with rest of you, or you
Speaker 1: made the worst decision of your career, you no longer
Speaker 1: have an end to that kid because you didn't respect
Speaker 1: their decision. It's their decision, so you should respect their
Speaker 1: decision where they want to go, where they feel comfortable
Speaker 1: at the time, you know, and if something changed in
Speaker 1: their life. Is if a coach leaves and they decide, okay,
Speaker 1: well I came here for this coach reality check.
Speaker 2: Most kids go to most schools for their.
Speaker 1: Coach, unless you're going to a specific school that has
Speaker 1: a specific major, specific program that in no matter way,
Speaker 1: if that school they didn't have your sport, you're going
Speaker 1: to go there. Anyways, most kids are going to most
Speaker 1: program because they respect to coach, they have a great
Speaker 1: relationship with the coach, and you know, the school happened.
Speaker 2: To have a sport they want.
Speaker 1: So I think the portal is a blessing in disguise
Speaker 1: if issues properly.
Speaker 2: And I also think it's a curse, you know.
Speaker 3: I think I want to point out because Avery went
Speaker 3: through the recruiting process with you, and he committed to
Speaker 3: you and UNCP the day after the state.
Speaker 4: Tournament his junior year.
Speaker 3: So I mean from a Division two standpoint in today's there,
Speaker 3: some would say he committed early, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: even though I think a junior committing is not early.
Speaker 3: He knew he wanted to go, He had the relationship
Speaker 3: with you, the rapport, and you know, checked all the
Speaker 3: boxes like we would have known if something would to
Speaker 3: pop off from other schools later on down the road.
Speaker 3: Even if he hadn't committed, they didn't put the time
Speaker 3: in what he was kind of I don't want to say,
Speaker 3: a diamond in the rough, but still kind of making
Speaker 3: his name for himself. It would have been really easy
Speaker 3: through when the state title as a senior for you know.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, come here, come here.
Speaker 3: But you had already put the legwork in as early
Speaker 3: as possible, and that was an easy decision for him.
Speaker 3: But what I thought was was the most interesting piece
Speaker 3: of the whole, you know, recruiting process, you know, going
Speaker 3: on his official visit, and then of course you sit down.
Speaker 2: In the room.
Speaker 3: Was you know when you offered Avery, there was no pressure,
Speaker 3: right And I've heard stories, actually heard you and I
Speaker 3: texted about it, and we're not going to say who
Speaker 3: it is, or coaches like put a time stamp on
Speaker 3: offers to kids like, hey, you need to let me
Speaker 3: know asap. With you, it was, Hey, we'd love to
Speaker 3: have you come here. Here's the package that we're offering you.
Speaker 3: Now there's incentives if you do well your senior year,
Speaker 3: and this can go up, YadA, YadA, YadA. But go
Speaker 3: visit other schools, take your time, go see other places.
Speaker 3: Like I remember you saying like, we want to make sure.
Speaker 3: I need to make sure that when you come here,
Speaker 3: you want to come here. There was no sense of
Speaker 3: urgency on your end. You let them know you wanted them,
Speaker 3: but at the same time, make sure when you commit here,
Speaker 3: it's where you want to be. So go see everywhere,
Speaker 3: Go visit everywhere, go do it. And I think that
Speaker 3: that's so critical, But that also takes a tremendous amount
Speaker 3: of confidence because as a program, like you said, you
Speaker 3: got to be able to tell people, no, you can't
Speaker 3: welcome everybody, like you have to be selective. But it
Speaker 3: seems like today it's people just want to jump on
Speaker 3: the quickest offer. Are you ever at a point where
Speaker 3: you're like, God, if we don't put a time stamp
Speaker 3: on this kid, do you ever have the fear of
Speaker 3: missing out?
Speaker 4: Like if I don't? Okay, So how do you manage that?
Speaker 1: To answer that question, yes, but I also go back to, hey,
Speaker 1: our philosophy here, it takes a special person to.
Speaker 2: Believe in what we're doing.
Speaker 1: And honestly, I'll give everybody the trick here. This is
Speaker 1: the game that our cointer parts play on us. They
Speaker 1: don't want the kids they're recruiting that we're recruiting to
Speaker 1: come on our campus because they know when they come
Speaker 1: in our campus, they're like, holy smokes, this is a
Speaker 1: freaking paradise you guys have going in at uncp U
Speaker 1: NC paradise.
Speaker 2: Let's get it. So you know, you got to remember,
Speaker 2: now you talking.
Speaker 1: About seventeen eighteen year old kids that are making, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, that the biggest decision of a young adult life.
Speaker 2: So they need to get it right, you know, they
Speaker 2: need to get it right. And if I'm putting.
Speaker 1: Pressure on them, you know, giving them seven days, giving
Speaker 1: them ten days, whatever it may be, when push come
Speaker 1: to shove and they're in the trenches, they might remember that.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I remember when coach pushed pressure on
Speaker 2: me and I making decision. You know, I need to
Speaker 2: know now if you're going to.
Speaker 1: Come here, you know, and that doesn't sit where with kids,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't sit where with their parents, you know, no.
Speaker 2: Matter what you say. You know, So when we encourage
Speaker 2: kids to.
Speaker 1: Go take visits, I understand, and we've lost kids to
Speaker 1: that because we give them free reign to you.
Speaker 2: Know, shop themselves around, so to speak.
Speaker 1: And so that has come across my mind numerous times,
Speaker 1: especially if it's one of our guys hiring our boards,
Speaker 1: you know, especially early in the process. You know, with Avery,
Speaker 1: you know, I have pictures of Avery when he was
Speaker 1: in you know, the fourth grade, fifth grade, or whatever
Speaker 1: it may be.
Speaker 2: So with him, I was comfortable with him. I was
Speaker 2: confident you.
Speaker 1: Know, he wrestled at a club with a UNCP wrestling
Speaker 1: All American alumni, So I knew everything about Avery that
Speaker 1: I needed to know to know that, hey, he's going
Speaker 1: to be a fit here and he's going to enjoy
Speaker 1: here because we have the right group of guys in place.
Speaker 1: And I think having that confident in myself as a coach,
Speaker 1: as a man, you know, and knowing that I can't
Speaker 1: replace you and Amy, but I'm gonna be the best
Speaker 1: representation of.
Speaker 2: You guys in your absence. Why Avery is here for
Speaker 2: four or five years, whatever it may be.
Speaker 1: Lets me know that, hey, when he makes that decision,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be no second guessing and that other coaches
Speaker 1: can't confidently say that. And it doesn't hurt that I've
Speaker 1: been here for, you know, seventeen years either. So I
Speaker 1: think a lot of parents get that comfortability knowing that
Speaker 1: that kid is not gonna go somewherehere the coach is
Speaker 1: going to be jumping ship every other year to find
Speaker 1: the next best thing, you know, And I think that's
Speaker 1: one of the other things that's lost. And that's why
Speaker 1: the transfer board, like we talked about, is so hot,
Speaker 1: and you know, you get over twenty five hundred kids
Speaker 1: in it every year, you know, because there's no stability
Speaker 1: in college coaching, regardless of division. You know, a lot
Speaker 1: of people are jumping ship to go to the next
Speaker 1: hot thing, And so I put that peace.
Speaker 2: Of mind in parents' minds. I put that piece of
Speaker 2: mind in kids mind.
Speaker 1: You know, the kids may not be thinking it, but
Speaker 1: I'm gonna cruit the parents just unless I'm recruiting the kids.
Speaker 3: I was definitely I must as far as parents go out.
Speaker 3: If I wasn't like top one or two on the board,
Speaker 3: I'd be pissed off right now.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're definitely up there.
Speaker 1: You know, you're you're you're one point five and you
Speaker 1: fighting for that other half to get the number one.
Speaker 1: So I'm just gonna throw that out there.
Speaker 2: But you know, at the end of the day, Nick, I.
Speaker 1: Do have that fear that I'm gonna lose one of
Speaker 1: my top guys because you know, there are people out
Speaker 1: there that don't do it right, you know, and and
Speaker 1: the reason why they're not successful is because they don't
Speaker 1: do it right. You know, you're gonna have any people
Speaker 1: that are gonna have success for a year or two,
Speaker 1: and they're gonna fall off right. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: if you look at our track record, you know, one
Speaker 1: we're recruiting our guys the right way. We're bringing in
Speaker 1: the right guys, and two we're got to a point
Speaker 1: now where we're graduating our guys on a consistent basis.
Speaker 1: Our guys that make it to year two and three,
Speaker 1: you know, they're graduating and they're going to getting great jobs,
Speaker 1: and they're reaching back out to me and asking.
Speaker 2: Should I leave this job for this job? You know,
Speaker 2: here's here's what they're offering.
Speaker 1: And knowing that I've had that kind of impact on them,
Speaker 1: US CPS had that kind of impact to them for
Speaker 1: them to reach back out to I'm a mater and
Speaker 1: ask the college wrestling coach about career decisions, let me
Speaker 1: know we get the right thing by them. And these
Speaker 1: are not guys that were world leaders. These are guys
Speaker 1: that were just programmed guys, you know, back us pos.
Speaker 2: Starters and guys that may not have ever even started.
Speaker 1: For US are reaching back guy and asking the PUS about, Hey, coach,
Speaker 1: I have this opportunity. What do you think that right there,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, is the biggest championships. Knowing that I
Speaker 1: made an impact on the guy that much that he's
Speaker 1: willing to call and ask my opinion about.
Speaker 2: That, you know.
Speaker 1: And so when we started our USCP Wrestling Alumni group
Speaker 1: me where all these guys can talk and chop it up,
Speaker 1: and we have almost ninety guys in there, even tho
Speaker 1: old dudes that don't know much about technology.
Speaker 2: That lets me know, Hey, we're doing the right things.
Speaker 1: And this is where you we want to get you
Speaker 1: at the end of your career is to be a
Speaker 1: part of this fraternity, you know, so you can mix
Speaker 1: it up with guys that were that were here in
Speaker 1: the eighties and nineties and early two thousand.
Speaker 2: And guys guys like that. You know, guys, guys want
Speaker 2: to be a part of the fraternity.
Speaker 1: And that's why we're not afraid to tell a guy, hey,
Speaker 1: here's an offer. You know, this is where we feel
Speaker 1: you are, and if things change from a performance standpoint,
Speaker 1: academic standpoint.
Speaker 2: We're willing to up it. You know.
Speaker 1: But go shop yourself around, Go check out other schools,
Speaker 1: go see what's out there. So when you're done, he
Speaker 1: decided to be a brave You're no, there's nothing out
Speaker 1: there in the back of your mind that you're married
Speaker 1: to the right place, and.
Speaker 2: You can you can enjoy this decision and walk around
Speaker 2: here with your head up high and compete, you know,
Speaker 2: stress free.
Speaker 3: You know, Avery's having a phenomenal freshman year, you know,
Speaker 3: really good year, and we're very proud of him. But
Speaker 3: I can't tell how many conversations Amy and I have
Speaker 3: had where we're like, man, he's at the right plat
Speaker 3: And it's not because of how you know, it's not
Speaker 3: because he's starting as a true freshman. It's not because
Speaker 3: he's having some success. It's because, you know, those little
Speaker 3: conversations like we know when he came home for the
Speaker 3: for the winner, you know, we try to you know,
Speaker 3: we don't talk to him that much. When he's there,
Speaker 3: he'll reach out, you know, or whatever.
Speaker 4: We'll check out how's it going. But we got five
Speaker 4: other kids here, you know. I mean, not that we're
Speaker 4: I'm thinking about.
Speaker 3: But he's eighteen years old and he needs to figure
Speaker 3: stuff out and he's adjusting really well. But it's like,
Speaker 3: we know you are genuinely looking out for his best
Speaker 3: interests as a human being. And even he said when
Speaker 3: I picked him up for Thanksgiving and we're driving home
Speaker 3: and you know I'm having those conversations with him, how
Speaker 3: do you feel you know, do you like? And He's like, man,
Speaker 3: I know he loves me, Like I know he cares
Speaker 3: about me. He's like, it's so obvious how much Ot
Speaker 3: cares about me as a person. Like the wrestling is
Speaker 3: like a back burner thing. And I know for him, like,
Speaker 3: you know, could he potentially wrestle at the Division one level?
Speaker 2: Maybe?
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Maybe?
Speaker 3: But I think with him, and I think in particular
Speaker 3: as a freshman, I think he would strugg I think
Speaker 3: some kids don't understand, like the jump it is from
Speaker 3: high school to collegiate athletics, and if you're especially in that.
Speaker 4: I don't even understand it.
Speaker 3: But especially in the sport of wrestling where I play
Speaker 3: college baseball, the commitment level from a wrestling standpoint, it's
Speaker 3: just a different It's a different level of discipline, a physicality,
Speaker 3: and I think that that grind if you're not having
Speaker 3: the opportunity to compete, like perform, like even the opportunity,
Speaker 3: I think it can shed a lot of kids away
Speaker 3: from this.
Speaker 4: Man, I don't want to do this anymore.
Speaker 3: So I think finding the right fit from a sport
Speaker 3: like wrestling is even more magnified, you know, to go
Speaker 3: where you belong to where you can have the most impact.
Speaker 4: That's just my perspective. But anyway, I want to just
Speaker 4: say we.
Speaker 3: Amy and I my wife are grateful that Avery found
Speaker 3: you and he's in the right We feel extremely confident
Speaker 3: and comfortable that he's at not only the right fit,
Speaker 3: but with the right coach and the right staff and
Speaker 3: the right teammates. So we're very grateful for that. As
Speaker 3: we wrap up, coach the sports parents want to hear it. Man,
Speaker 3: You've kind of shed light on a lot of things,
Speaker 3: but like you know, I always want to try to
Speaker 3: end with some sort of tidbit. You know, you're someone
Speaker 3: who's doing this every day. What's a piece of advice
Speaker 3: in a minute or two that can help these parents
Speaker 3: whose kids do want to be college athletes, you know,
Speaker 3: who do want to get seen, who do want to
Speaker 3: get recognized? How should they go about it? What are
Speaker 3: some pointers that you can give them?
Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, being in the trenches for damn here
Speaker 1: two decades now, man, is you know I've I've been
Speaker 1: super grateful.
Speaker 2: It's helped me and my wife as parents to you know,
Speaker 2: ask those questions.
Speaker 1: When is it too early to ask the question to
Speaker 1: your GC yourself playing college athletics, you know, And we
Speaker 1: were having a conversation all I remember when they happened,
Speaker 1: I think was during their softball season.
Speaker 2: Our door was like, yeah, I'm want to play I
Speaker 2: want to play college ball.
Speaker 1: And I told them my wife dad, and she was like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, really she does, you know, and she does
Speaker 1: great or her if she doesn't, oh well, you know,
Speaker 1: for me, one of the greatest things she's accomplished thus
Speaker 1: far in fourteen years of living.
Speaker 2: She made a straight A honor roll this fall. Nice
Speaker 2: and so right.
Speaker 1: There, that lets us know that she's she's putting herself
Speaker 1: in the right place to be a college athlete.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, I guess unfortunately, she's a female athlete and the
Speaker 1: path two millions are not as fast as the male
Speaker 1: athletes that are in baseball, basketball, and football. Right, So
Speaker 1: when she plays her college sports, if she plays her.
Speaker 2: College sports, you know, she's going to have to do something.
Speaker 1: Outside of that, just like these college wrestlers are going
Speaker 1: to have to do something outside of college athletics. So
Speaker 1: you know, just knowing that, you know, you have your
Speaker 1: kid's best interest at howard, you know. And if your
Speaker 1: kid does well in a particular sport, you know, congratulate them.
Speaker 2: But make this their journey, you know. And I think
Speaker 2: sometimes people crap on camps. One. You need to get
Speaker 2: your kid away from yourself. Take them to her camp,
Speaker 2: especially when they're in high school, and leave them alone.
Speaker 2: Let them go, let them.
Speaker 1: Spend the night, let him be with someone else, Let
Speaker 1: him be on a college campus or camp citing that's
Speaker 1: away from you, so they can understand, hey, mom and
Speaker 1: dad aren't here to coddle me, so to speak. And
Speaker 1: if your kid comes back and they enjoyed it and
Speaker 1: they don't text you or call you and say come
Speaker 1: get me, that's the first step. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of parents do not have the confident to let
Speaker 1: their kid go.
Speaker 2: There are hundreds, there are thousands of camps out there
Speaker 2: now that you can send your kids too.
Speaker 1: If we can't have a camp at our school without
Speaker 1: having a background check on all of our athletes. Even
Speaker 1: though our athletes have to have some sort of background
Speaker 1: check to be in school, they all have to have
Speaker 1: a background check to even run out of camps.
Speaker 2: We have to have insurance, so letting your kid go
Speaker 2: what is a three.
Speaker 1: Four, five, seven day camp without you is paramount to
Speaker 1: seeing if they're ready for the next.
Speaker 2: Level, to see if they're ready to play college athletics.
Speaker 1: If you're willing to do that and your kid calls
Speaker 1: back or come back and express their enjoyment of the camp,
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 2: That's what the biggest step.
Speaker 1: And hey, stop asking for offers or start trying to
Speaker 1: go out there and beg for offers. Unfortunately, there's only
Speaker 1: so many no zions that are going to wow everyone
Speaker 1: when he's high school.
Speaker 2: You know, you know, the Lebron James.
Speaker 1: I can't imagine if Lebron James are around when technology
Speaker 1: is as vast as it is now, you know, not
Speaker 1: everyone's going to get that sign or you know, offered
Speaker 1: a gazillion offers from gazilion schools.
Speaker 2: The opportunity to play college athletics, regardless of the division,
Speaker 2: is a privilege.
Speaker 1: And because your kid doesn't get offered by I don't
Speaker 1: know whatever big school doesn't make you less of a parent.
Speaker 1: Right now, I think people misunderstand that less than one
Speaker 1: percent of high school kids are going to play college sports.
Speaker 1: Now I said play college sports, I say get offers
Speaker 1: from scholarship unfortunately, and I wish we had full scholarship
Speaker 1: allowment at UNCP. I would say about sixty percent of
Speaker 1: our guys or walk off and they come here knowing that, Hey,
Speaker 1: I want to be a part of something bigger than myself.
Speaker 2: And it's okay for your kid.
Speaker 1: To not get an offer, and it's okay for your
Speaker 1: kid not to go on an official visit that means
Speaker 1: very little.
Speaker 2: That means very little. One of our best wrestlers in our.
Speaker 1: School history, Nick Daggett, came a one official visit, and
Speaker 1: that was after he came on three unofficial visits on
Speaker 1: his own dime. And I think that helped validate his
Speaker 1: decision to be a brave and be a Division two wrestler,
Speaker 1: which ultimately let him become a five time national qualifier,
Speaker 1: four time All American, five time academic All.
Speaker 2: American because he chose the right school.
Speaker 1: And I think that's important for parents to understand, is
Speaker 1: the right fit for your kid that's going to help
Speaker 1: him grow, help her succeed academically, help her grow socially,
Speaker 1: and who knows, they might enjoy it when they're there,
Speaker 1: and you don't want to send the next kid from
Speaker 1: their high school there and vouch for that place. And unfortunately,
Speaker 1: not every kid is going to come to UNCP, and
Speaker 1: I'm okay with that. You know, there are great Division two,
Speaker 1: Division three NAI Division one schools out there. Not every
Speaker 1: kids the Division one athlete, and parents need to be
Speaker 1: a understanding of that and that there are great Division two,
Speaker 1: Division three NAI teams out there for all sports where
Speaker 1: kids can go and have a great experience. I have
Speaker 1: a lot of success because ten twenty years from now,
Speaker 1: someone's going to ask.
Speaker 2: You you play college sports. You're gonna say yeah.
Speaker 1: They're gonna care zero about if there's Division one, Division
Speaker 1: two or Division three, and parents need to understand there.
Speaker 2: Are dogs out there.
Speaker 1: I'll be naive to think that Joe Seely or Bo
Speaker 1: Bassett is coming to UNCP. Those guys are going to
Speaker 1: be at the highest level because those guys are dogs.
Speaker 2: That's where they belong. They're different, that's just the reality, douition.
Speaker 2: They're different. Yeah, they're different.
Speaker 1: And your kid is not getting the offer from Penn State,
Speaker 1: Ohio State, NC State because he's not different.
Speaker 2: And that's okay. At the end of the day.
Speaker 1: I think people need to realize that there are levels
Speaker 1: to this and that's why those guys and girls get
Speaker 1: the offer they get because they're built different.
Speaker 2: Man. I love it.
Speaker 3: Just you know what one thing I always want to
Speaker 3: make sure is people are coming on here. This is real, live,
Speaker 3: firsthand insight and it's going to be unfiltered like it's true.
Speaker 3: If you can't handle the truth, then don't ask the question,
Speaker 3: don't listen. But at the end of the day, you
Speaker 3: got a man right here, who's you know, doing at
Speaker 3: the highest level Division two for years. Who's shooting it
Speaker 3: straight with you?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 3: Just find the right fit coach. Ot can't thank you enough,
Speaker 3: my man, great friend, great coach. Grateful my son's wrestling
Speaker 3: for going, Hey, going to Natti this year.
Speaker 2: You guys, Man, let's get it.
Speaker 1: We're gonna give them hell man, we're gonna We're gonna
Speaker 1: push these guys. We've got a couple of months here
Speaker 1: before we get to the dance and you know, we
Speaker 1: still got some work to do. Obviously, ninth in the
Speaker 1: country is awesome, but it's not the end goal. The
Speaker 1: end goal is to get these guys growing as men
Speaker 1: and ultimately.
Speaker 2: To you know, push ourselves a little further on the ranking.
Speaker 1: I guess a little lower on their ranking, but we're
Speaker 1: super excited for the way our guys are growing as
Speaker 1: a team, how much they love each other and you
Speaker 1: know how much to back each other, and you know
Speaker 1: how much they want to see such succeeds.
Speaker 2: So we're ready to make this last push here for
Speaker 2: for our championship. Run O T.
Speaker 4: Johnson. I appreciate you coming on.
Speaker 2: Dog, appreciate it, man, keep doing your thing. Everybody.
Speaker 1: Make sure you guys go out there, support, subscribe, leave
Speaker 1: a rating, and let's get the worst spread.
Speaker 2: Nick is doing a great job.
Speaker 1: And uh, super proud of you, man, Super proud of
Speaker 1: what you're doing, and super proud of being a part
Speaker 1: of this. Looking forward to listening to pod and hearing
Speaker 1: more and more successful big time come on here, and
Speaker 1: you know, thanks you.
Speaker 2: For allowing me to be a part of these legends
Speaker 2: that you're bringing on.
Speaker 4: Man, you're one of them. Man, I appreciate you. That's
Speaker 4: coach Othello.
Speaker 3: Ot Johnson, sportspirit and head wrestling coach at the University
Speaker 3: of North Carolina, Pembrooke. Thanks for listening to the Reform
Speaker 3: Sports podcast. If you've enjoyed this episode, we would appreciate
Speaker 3: it if you took a moment to rate and review
Speaker 3: our podcast. As we work to grow our community of
Speaker 3: supporters and advocates for more reform sports content, please subscribe
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