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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Sarah Dowdy and I am joined today by Kristen Conquer.

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Speaker 1: Hello is there a Dowdy? So? Kristen hosts stefph Mom

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Speaker 1: Never Told You. Um. She's also a writer for helftuff

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Speaker 1: works dot com and well de Bline has been out

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Speaker 1: on maternity leave. I've had the pleasure of editing Kristen,

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Speaker 1: which has been fun. You've been writing all kinds of

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Speaker 1: political things and some stranger topics the past few weeks.

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Speaker 1: I liked matchmaking, which interesting. That was a fun one

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Speaker 1: for the podcast as well. For stuff Mom Never told

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Speaker 1: you It's it's your kind of theme, right, Yeah, But

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Speaker 1: today we're not going strictly stuff Mom Never told you territory.

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Speaker 1: We're going to embrace the season. It is, after all, October,

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Speaker 1: and we love to cover spooky seasonal episode's during the

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Speaker 1: month of October. So what better topic to kick it

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Speaker 1: all off with than trick or treating? Yeah, it's fun. Well,

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Speaker 1: because it seems like with Halloween it's pretty common knowledge.

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Speaker 1: It goes back to ancient Celtic tradition. But then there's

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Speaker 1: this giant gap. We start, you know, with the Celtic tradition,

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Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden we are buying billions

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Speaker 1: of pounds of candy and expensive costumes and costumes for pets.

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Speaker 1: How did we get there? How did we get from

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Speaker 1: the old bonfire days to what we think of as

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Speaker 1: Halloween today? And I mean, I, for one, love Halloween,

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Speaker 1: so I I'm interested in this progression and some of

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Speaker 1: the olden days rituals, but also how it how it

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Speaker 1: got to where it is today. Yeah, because it's also

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Speaker 1: a funny example of how the Church tried to change

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Speaker 1: a pagan holiday into something holy co opted actually, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and they were completely thwarted. And now the Church still Halloween, well,

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Speaker 1: some folks do. And that's that's going to be something

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Speaker 1: we'll we'll talk about a little more. What sort of

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Speaker 1: demonic history does Halloween actually? But I mean, I guess

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Speaker 1: we should start by talking about the Celts and the

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Speaker 1: Celtic clans that celebrated a holiday called Salon and it

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Speaker 1: was essentially a harvest festival um on the on the

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Speaker 1: outside of things, you know, end of the new year

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Speaker 1: for for the Celtic clans into the harvest season time

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Speaker 1: to bring in your herds from pasture time to renew leases.

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Speaker 1: And also because the fabric between the this world and

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Speaker 1: the world beyond was especially thin, it was the time

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Speaker 1: for souls to come back home. Yes, it was believed

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Speaker 1: that this was a special time when uh, the living

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Speaker 1: and the dead could interact, and Salon specifically was a

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Speaker 1: festival of the dying Sun god. It was kind of

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Speaker 1: like the Celtic New Year's celebration. It was essentially um.

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Speaker 1: And it's thought too that since there was all this

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Speaker 1: harvesting going on and there was also um slaughtering of animals,

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Speaker 1: that people would wear the animal hides from cattle and livestock,

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Speaker 1: and perhaps these were primitive costumes well, and we can

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Speaker 1: get into the purpose behind these costumes a little more too.

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Speaker 1: But it was also sort of just a spooky time

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Speaker 1: of year. I mean, you can imagine with all the

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Speaker 1: souls coming back, but it was a good time to

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Speaker 1: do fortune tellings, you know, to arrange things like the

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Speaker 1: date of a marriage or when somebody might die. When

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Speaker 1: with that happened, um, you just had a clearer picture,

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Speaker 1: supposedly of what the world held. But when we talk

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Speaker 1: about souls coming back, what interests me is that that's

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Speaker 1: not necessarily a bad thing. Some of these would be

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Speaker 1: beloved family members, friends um not spooky's gary souls, but

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Speaker 1: some would be evil spirits. And so to to put

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Speaker 1: some distance between yourself and all of the evil things

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Speaker 1: that might be coming back for salin, people would light

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Speaker 1: these giant bonfires to to either help guide the good

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Speaker 1: spirits or scare off the bad one. There was a

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Speaker 1: tradition in Scotland actually where farmers would like torches of

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Speaker 1: braided straw and march around their property to supposedly ward

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Speaker 1: off the evil which is in demon well. And and

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Speaker 1: going back to you talking about all of the animals

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Speaker 1: that were being flattered around this time, if you did

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Speaker 1: have to go out on salon, it was a good

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Speaker 1: idea to disguise yourself in some kind of costume, like

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Speaker 1: an animal hide, so that the evil spirits wouldn't recognize you.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes too, the evil spirits might inhabit the body

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Speaker 1: of a wild animal. So some families would leave food

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Speaker 1: out to feed these uh I guess poss early treats,

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Speaker 1: we might say. So when the Romans arrived in Britain

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Speaker 1: in the first century, they they were sort of the

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Speaker 1: first we were just talking about Christians co opting these

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Speaker 1: ancient holidays. They were sort of the first to do that.

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Speaker 1: They moved in on Salon with their own festivals that

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Speaker 1: were timed around this time of year anyway. They had

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Speaker 1: a harvest festival around this time, they had a Festival

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Speaker 1: of the Dead. Um, just sort of get everybody on

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Speaker 1: the same page, celebrating the same festivals, whether they were

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Speaker 1: traditional or new. But by the seventh century, the same

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Speaker 1: thing was happening with the Christian holidays. And Pope Boniface

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Speaker 1: the Fourth originally set up All Saints Day for March,

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Speaker 1: but about a century later moved it to November one

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Speaker 1: because it was clear that people are going to be celebrating,

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Speaker 1: uh this kind of thing anyway at that time of year. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and uh six o one a d. Pope Gregory the

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Speaker 1: First actually issued an edict to missionaries basically saying that, um,

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Speaker 1: in order to convert native people, simply repurpose their festivals

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Speaker 1: and their holidays for Christianity. And that's what happened with

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Speaker 1: All Saints Day, and I mean before All Saints Day,

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Speaker 1: the day before that, which was still All Hellow's Eve,

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Speaker 1: which we know is Halloween. Uh, it did take on

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Speaker 1: a more negative connotation, or at least the spirits that

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Speaker 1: were out, because that doesn't mesh too well with with Christianity,

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Speaker 1: these nice spirits coming back and visiting. It became more

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Speaker 1: about demons and scary things that were coming out that

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Speaker 1: night and to buy them off. Going back to what

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Speaker 1: you were just talking about, leaving out things for these

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Speaker 1: animal spirits. To buy them off, people would leave food

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Speaker 1: and drink outside. Eventually, some folks wised up to this

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Speaker 1: that all their neighbors were leaving out tasty treats on

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Speaker 1: all Hallow's Eve and started dressing up those scary things

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Speaker 1: themselves to indulge in all this bounty. Yeah, they would

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Speaker 1: go a souling, which reminds me of you know the

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Speaker 1: Christmas Carol going wasstling there, I go Westling. It was

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Speaker 1: the same thing, these color people getting food and drink

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Speaker 1: all throughout winter. Um. And they would go from house

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Speaker 1: to house um begging for these things called soul cakes. There,

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Speaker 1: little kicks that they would make, sometimes with currents I

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Speaker 1: guess imprinted in the shape of crosses on them. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And supposedly the souling tradition also came out of something

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Speaker 1: called mumming, which I believe you've talked about on the

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Speaker 1: podcast before, Sarah, Yeah, about a year ago to Bolina

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Speaker 1: and I did an episode on Guy Fox Day and

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Speaker 1: mumming is still a tradition in Britain and uh we

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Speaker 1: we hadn't really heard much about it, and we asked

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Speaker 1: listeners like, does anybody out there still do mumming? We

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Speaker 1: heard back from so many people who it's apparently a

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Speaker 1: strong tradition still in their community. But yeah, essentially it's

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Speaker 1: kind of Halloween ask and um, I can see how

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Speaker 1: this tradition, I don't know how how we celebrate Halloween

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Speaker 1: today emerge from something like mumming back then. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: supposedly they were still dressing up as now the fairies,

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Speaker 1: witches and demons kind of taking on that darker side

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Speaker 1: of how yeah, that we now associate with it, and

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Speaker 1: so you must placate them with some kind of sweet

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Speaker 1: treat like a soul cake. There is a pretty strong

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Speaker 1: connection though, to this idea of the dead returning or

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Speaker 1: at least honoring the dead in some way though, and

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Speaker 1: in England, poor people would organize what they called soul prides,

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Speaker 1: which I think is a pretty awesome name. Too, where

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Speaker 1: instead of just going out in begging or thinking of

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Speaker 1: later trick or treating, where it's essentially a deal, I

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Speaker 1: won't play a prank on you if you give me

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Speaker 1: a treat. This was give me alms in exchange or

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Speaker 1: prayers for your dead. And kids sort of took that

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Speaker 1: over eventually, and they'd call themselves solars and and again

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Speaker 1: the soul cakes come into play there. You'd give these

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Speaker 1: kids little cakes and they'd pray for your your family members. Um.

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Speaker 1: We both found a recipe for these cakes too, by

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Speaker 1: the way, online I think NPR had one, and they

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Speaker 1: sound pretty good. Yeah, they're really simple, almost like they

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Speaker 1: reminded me of snickerdoodles. Snickerdoodles with some staffron and some

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Speaker 1: nutmeg thrown in currens of course, yeah, a little bit

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Speaker 1: of cinnamon. What else? Yeah, sugar. They're pretty eggy, I think. Um,

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Speaker 1: but I mean I'm curious to try them, although I

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Speaker 1: won't be giving them out to my tricker treaders because

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Speaker 1: we will discuss more on that later. Why packaged candy

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Speaker 1: is really the only way to go these days? Well,

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Speaker 1: and also you know, soul cakes too. This NPR cook

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Speaker 1: warns gets stale within a day or two. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of like Halloween candy just should eat just as quickly

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Speaker 1: as possible. Um. But it's it's funny you bring up

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Speaker 1: the how the adult beggars were then kind of taken

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Speaker 1: over by the young parades of the solars, and that

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Speaker 1: kind of trickled down from uh, from the adults to

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Speaker 1: the kids. It's the same kind of thing that's going

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Speaker 1: to happen a little bit later once it crosses over

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Speaker 1: to the US. But one um, as a parallel to

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Speaker 1: the soul parades, I read about how in Ireland especially

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Speaker 1: and in some parts of England, there was also a

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Speaker 1: tradition of a guy dressing up as a white horse

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Speaker 1: that was called lair Bonnu. That apparently was the Celtic

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Speaker 1: symbol of fertility. Um, and it was also referred to

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Speaker 1: as the haddening horse. I think that was in England

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Speaker 1: that would lead these sound processions. So if you're looking

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Speaker 1: for a Halloween, come white horse, because go as lair

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Speaker 1: bonn and no one will get what it is. But

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Speaker 1: good points. That does sound like a pretty good idea

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Speaker 1: for history lovers out there with pretty of bold costume aspirations.

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Speaker 1: But um, by the eighteen hundreds. I mean, we're we've

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Speaker 1: got to talk a little bit more about immigrants, British

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Speaker 1: Irish immigrants starting to take these traditions to America, even

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Speaker 1: though not all colonies allowed this type of very pagan

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Speaker 1: influence celebration to to go down. But by the eighteen

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Speaker 1: hundreds it really just seemed like such a mishmatch. This

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Speaker 1: is where I lost track of all these different traditions

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Speaker 1: because all these different things are happening by this point,

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Speaker 1: Harvest festivals, things that sound kind of like Halloween, things

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Speaker 1: that sound kind of like trigger treating, um mumming. Even

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Speaker 1: something called Mischief Night, which sounded really wild. It had

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Speaker 1: been imported from Yorkshire, and according to Karen Allen in

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Speaker 1: BBC History Magazine, it would have taken place on November four,

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Speaker 1: so the night before Bonfire Night. Um. But kids could

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Speaker 1: essentially do whatever they wanted on Mischief Night and not

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Speaker 1: be punished in any way for it. And that might

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Speaker 1: just be something fairly harmless, like tying a door knob

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Speaker 1: to the door knob across the street and then knocking

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Speaker 1: on both doors. But it might be like putting coal

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Speaker 1: powder on the threshold of doors and then setting it

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Speaker 1: on fire to smoke out the people inside things that

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Speaker 1: start to sound a little more sinister, I guess. So

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Speaker 1: apparently what was supposed to start out as like a

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Speaker 1: celebratory feast period to honor saints turned into rampid borganism,

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Speaker 1: coal dust on the doorstep, and um, I mean I

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Speaker 1: think you were you were going to talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about what was going on. As far as

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Speaker 1: the timing for these celebrations too. It isn't all October

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Speaker 1: thirty one. It's not even all mischief Night November four.

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Speaker 1: It happens throughout the autumnal period essentially. Yeah, there's something

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Speaker 1: about late October and November that seems to make us

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Speaker 1: want to go a little bit wild, because what I

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Speaker 1: didn't realize was that these traditions would also span into

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Speaker 1: the Thanksgiving season. In the late eighteenth century, um Thanksgiving

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Speaker 1: was treated as more of a carnival than a sit down,

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Speaker 1: calm fiece that you might have with your family. And

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Speaker 1: I read about this group called the Fantastics that were

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Speaker 1: essentially a group of revolutionary war veterans that would parade

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Speaker 1: in rags of continental soldiers and cause all sorts of mischief.

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Speaker 1: And again, like the trick or treating. They would go

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Speaker 1: from door to door masquerading for treats, and uh, apparently

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Speaker 1: they kind of got so much out of hand that

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Speaker 1: people that those fantastics is just hanging up their continental garb.

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Speaker 1: That does sound pretty wild. I don't know, it's It's

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Speaker 1: one thing if it's the kids tying your door and off,

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Speaker 1: maybe another if it is a bunch of old Revolutionary

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Speaker 1: War veterans causing trouble on the streets. But that does

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Speaker 1: give a really good example of how different we are

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Speaker 1: talking about from harvest festival honoring the dead side of

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Speaker 1: things too, grown men causing trouble. Yeah, and I gotta say,

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Speaker 1: if the Fantastic showed up at my house, I would

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Speaker 1: give them soul, would give me candy, really anything. You'd

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Speaker 1: probably try to buy one of their costumes too, for

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Speaker 1: your own future Halloween celebration. Trade them my Thanksgiving turkey.

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Speaker 1: I think that's idea number two. White Horse Revolutionary Army uniform.

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Speaker 1: Let's get back to talking about modern Halloween. Um So,

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Speaker 1: by the mid twentieth century, the mischief making side of

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Speaker 1: things had started to seem a little unsavory to people.

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Speaker 1: U The folks were starting to cause too much trouble

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Speaker 1: to to seem respectable and respectable. Adults had been having

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Speaker 1: sort of Halloween parties throughout the nineteen twenties and thirties anyway,

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Speaker 1: with things UM seasonal sort of things like apples, pumpkins,

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Speaker 1: UM candy, homemade candy like fudge, popcorn balls. But by

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Speaker 1: the nineteen forties it really seemed like people were looking

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Speaker 1: for a way to channel their kids away from this

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Speaker 1: night where they could just go cause a bunch of

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Speaker 1: trouble out on the streets and doing something that was

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Speaker 1: a little more controlled, like dressing up and asking for candy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the trick or treating as we know it today.

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Speaker 1: UM is thought to have started in wealthier areas on

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Speaker 1: the East Coast, maybe as early as nineteen twenty. There

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Speaker 1: was actually this great excerpt from the October nineteen twenty

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Speaker 1: Ladies Home Journal talking about UM. Can I read it

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Speaker 1: to you? That's a direct quote is so necessary for this.

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Speaker 1: It's a woman talking about I guess some some very

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Speaker 1: early trigger treater. She says, a group of hilarious youngsters

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Speaker 1: in costume, including to Charlie Chaplin's more costume Markids. To

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Speaker 1: Charlie Chaplin's a topsy. I don't even know what that

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Speaker 1: one is. A gingerbread man and an Indian noisily approached

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Speaker 1: the front door of a large house, ring the bell

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Speaker 1: and when the owner herself comes the door, greets her

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Speaker 1: in chorus with nuts, nuts, we want nuts. I wish

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Speaker 1: that still happened. Maybe maybe this year, Kristen, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go door to door A dress is a fantastic

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Speaker 1: begging for nuts or Charlie Chaplin. I like that one. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a peek at twenties era trigger treating.

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Speaker 1: But it really was sort of sporadic during that period.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't until after World War Two that it became

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Speaker 1: just a normal thing for kids to do. You take

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Speaker 1: your kids trigger treating and um, if we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about trigger treating, though, we've got to talk about

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Speaker 1: the development to how we think of it today, with

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Speaker 1: fun sized candy, a lot of pre bought, pre made costumes,

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Speaker 1: no white horses out there, no Charlie Chaplains, things you

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Speaker 1: can buy at the store. Um. According to Samira Kawash

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Speaker 1: in the Atlantic, though, it wasn't really about candy right away,

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Speaker 1: going going to trigger treat I mean, as your quote

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Speaker 1: suggests nuts. Nuts, we want nuts. You might get fruit,

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Speaker 1: you might get changed, you might get cookies and toys,

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Speaker 1: and weirdly, candy manufacturers had seized on the idea of

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Speaker 1: tie ins with holidays as early as nineteen hundred or so,

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Speaker 1: for Christmas and for Easter, but not for Halloween. She

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Speaker 1: writes about how Washington's birthday was a bigger deal at

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Speaker 1: the time. You could buy marzipan cherries and coco logs

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Speaker 1: to to celebrate the first President's birthday, but Halloween wasn't

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Speaker 1: wasn't an opportunity for candy manufacturers yet. But by the fifties,

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Speaker 1: candy became what was expected for trick or treating. It

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Speaker 1: was cheap, it was easy to buy a lot of it,

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Speaker 1: and candy manufacturers embraced that by making tiny candy that

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Speaker 1: came in giant backs. And it's also in nineteen fifty

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Speaker 1: where one tricker treating tradition that I feel like is

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Speaker 1: maybe fallen off a little bit. But this is the

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Speaker 1: goodwill side of trigger treating. Um A group of Pennsylvania

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Speaker 1: kids from a Sunday school decided that instead of collecting

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Speaker 1: these candies doore to door, they would collect change to

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Speaker 1: give to World War Two orphans and they collected seventeen dollars,

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Speaker 1: which I'm sure it was a lot of money in

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifty and donated it to UNI Stuff. And UNI

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Speaker 1: stuff had only been around at that point for maybe

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Speaker 1: four or five years, and they thought it was such

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Speaker 1: a great idea. They started making UM trigger treating UH

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Speaker 1: an opportunity for all the kids to collect money. So

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Speaker 1: do you ever see Uni sef tricker treaders? I see

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Speaker 1: the boxes in in stores, but I don't think I've

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Speaker 1: ever entertained any myself. You know. I wonder how much

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Speaker 1: of a tradition that still is, or whether it was

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Speaker 1: bigger of a decade or so ago or a few

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Speaker 1: decades ago. Well, they still tout it um on their website,

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Speaker 1: and I they had a campaign it might have been

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Speaker 1: last year where for the first time you could make

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Speaker 1: your own unit stuff boxes. But yeah, I have yet

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Speaker 1: to see units of trigger treaders. Well, and if we're

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Speaker 1: if we're thinking of the money side of things too,

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Speaker 1: I was amazed at numbers relating to the costume industry

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Speaker 1: because I've always had homemade costumes, but the the amount

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Speaker 1: that people spend on costumes today, it really does drive

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Speaker 1: home the point that Halloween is a huge industry today,

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Speaker 1: between the candy and the costumes. According to a Newsweek

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Speaker 1: article just from last year, so these are pretty recent. Um,

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Speaker 1: people in the United States spend six point eight six

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Speaker 1: billion dollars on Halloween, and one point two billion of

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Speaker 1: that is for adult costumes versus one billion for children's

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Speaker 1: costumes and three million for pet costumes. I mean, I've

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Speaker 1: got to stay I can get completely on board with

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Speaker 1: the pet costumes. I'm not I'm not down on that side.

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Speaker 1: But adults are spending more on their costumes than kids are,

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Speaker 1: a good bit more actually, And I wonder if that's

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Speaker 1: broken down for households, if you're outfitting, if that number

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Speaker 1: of one billion is outfitting your three children or something

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Speaker 1: versus just yourself. But I don't know. It's it's pretty

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Speaker 1: wild figure to consider. And I under what those folks

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Speaker 1: um back in Celtic days would be thinking with their

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Speaker 1: animal skins. They might not be as impressed, because I

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Speaker 1: have to say that homemade costumes are almost always better

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Speaker 1: than the store bought ones. But it is such a

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Speaker 1: huge ripple effect. We have the giant, almost like big

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Speaker 1: box Halloween stores that will pop up, the pop up

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Speaker 1: for the store, and exactly they pop up in closed

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Speaker 1: down bookstores or other abandoned retail properties and and then disappear.

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Speaker 1: And uh, just the list too that I got from

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Speaker 1: this Newsweek article of the most popular costumes really says

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Speaker 1: something about how much people are spending because they do

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Speaker 1: seem very very easy to make at home, which is

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Speaker 1: number one. Then comes pirate vampire, zombie batman. That might

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Speaker 1: be a little hard to do yourself unless you had

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Speaker 1: some real costume skills, Cat vixen, ghost nurse, and then

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Speaker 1: number ten scary math and I don't I didn't hear

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Speaker 1: lar Ben the Celtic symbol of fertility. Oh I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: that was number eleven or or a fantastics costume. Um.

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Speaker 1: The thing is, though, we're pretty fortunate that we still

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Speaker 1: that tricker treating really still exists today, because in the

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Speaker 1: seventies especially, there was a huge panic that trigger treating

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Speaker 1: was a direct danger for kids, and not just in

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Speaker 1: the way today where there's more concern about kids, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, being safe out on their own, escorted walking cars,

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Speaker 1: all of that sort of stuff, But in the seventies

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Speaker 1: there were This was when all of those um rumors

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Speaker 1: popped up about razors in the apples and yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it was also uh, there were the tile A murders

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Speaker 1: that were going on, I believe in the late seventies,

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Speaker 1: and for some reason it was like that panic spread

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Speaker 1: to Halloween because it happened in early October. And in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, actually the town of Burbank, Illinois outlawed

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Speaker 1: trick or treating and considered it illegal solicitation if you

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Speaker 1: went from town to town, and there were all these

364
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Speaker 1: other different uh, cities and towns as well. Hardwick, Massachusetts

365
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Speaker 1: also in the late seventies bandit after kids said they

366
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Speaker 1: found razor blades in their candy. But then once they

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Speaker 1: go back and they look into whether or not these

368
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Speaker 1: kids stories are true. Unfortunately, well not unfortunately fortunately for

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Speaker 1: trick or treaters everywhere, the stories have not been true.

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Speaker 1: It's all it's an urban legend. Well, that's that's good

371
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Speaker 1: to hear. Yes, I'm comforting, But I mean that does

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Speaker 1: tie into to the trend to in the in the

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Speaker 1: late sixties and the seventies away from homemade items. I

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Speaker 1: was saying earlier in the show, I kind of want

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Speaker 1: to make soul cakes, but Obviously, I could never give

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Speaker 1: them to trigger treaters because they probably would be grossed out,

377
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Speaker 1: for one, or would not want to take them because

378
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Speaker 1: it would be weird yellow looking cookies. Even if they

379
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: did get them, their parents would throw them away because

380
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,679
Speaker 1: I think it's pretty generally accepted now. Only wrapped candy

381
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Speaker 1: is okay um, And I mean, I guess that's from

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Speaker 1: some of these urban legends that did come about in

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Speaker 1: the seventies and eighties. I just wish that we could

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Speaker 1: bring back instead of all of the you know, Halloween

385
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Speaker 1: such a fearful kind of holiday, especially for parents having

386
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Speaker 1: to deal with trigger treating, doing all of these costumes everything.

387
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Speaker 1: I wish it we could bring back more of the

388
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Speaker 1: divining games that used to be associated with Swen and Halloween,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of times, for the adults, it wasn't

390
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Speaker 1: so much about uh, you know, the treats, but more

391
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Speaker 1: figuring out who your husband was going to be. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: do youve have the e ample of that from the mirror? Oh,

393
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Speaker 1: when you walk down a mirror backwards. But it sounds

394
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Speaker 1: really dangerous. We should say that before we tell this story.

395
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Speaker 1: We're not responsible if you fall down the stairs doing this,

396
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: but the Library of Congress site described um this divining

397
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Speaker 1: ritual where you would hold a mirror on Halloween, you

398
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Speaker 1: would walk backwards down the stairs to the basement, and

399
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Speaker 1: the face that appears in the mirror would be your

400
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Speaker 1: future lover if you didn't break your neck. Also, who's

401
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: down there in the basement waiting? Uh. There was an

402
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Speaker 1: article published in the New York Times from talking about

403
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Speaker 1: all of the different, uh, the myrriad Halloween traditions that

404
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Speaker 1: had stuck around, and my favorite was a Scottish one

405
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,919
Speaker 1: called pulling the kale Stalks, in which UM, you and

406
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: your beloved would be blindfolded and you would walk out

407
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: into a field presumably of kale, and you would each

408
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:08,919
Speaker 1: pull up a kale stalk and then uh, the dirt

409
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,440
Speaker 1: attached to the roots would uh would tell how much

410
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: wealth you would have. Obviously the more dirt, the bigger

411
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: the clump, the better the taste was supposed to foretell

412
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Speaker 1: the temper of your future husband. And then I liked this. Uh.

413
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Speaker 1: You could tell the size of your partner based on

414
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: the size of the stalk, So if it was shortened

415
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 1: squat then for a well or tall and slender. Um.

416
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: So pulling up the kale stalks I think should definitely

417
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,679
Speaker 1: be brought back. Okay, so next Halloween party then pulling

418
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Speaker 1: up the kale stalks, maybe escorted walking down the stairs backwards,

419
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, for safety, have somebody guiding you with that mirror.

420
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Speaker 1: Um the horse costume, Charlie Chaplin, soul cake. I like

421
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: the sound of popcorn balls too. I like popcorn balls.

422
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: One tradition though, that we can we can leave in

423
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: ancient times is when they would they would take little

424
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: almost like soul cake, kind of little pastries and carve

425
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 1: their initials into them and throw them. I think this

426
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: was in Whales. They would throw them in a bonfire,

427
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,920
Speaker 1: and the next day, if your cake was gone, maybe

428
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: you would die before the next hour. It was so ominous.

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00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,639
Speaker 1: Leave that tradition in the past. And then one more

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00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 1: that I just have to mention. I love jack o lanterns.

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00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: I love traditional pumpkin jack lanterns. I like pumpkins in general.

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00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: They're fun. But the original jack lantern was a hollowed

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00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,439
Speaker 1: out turn up, which it kind of sounds like it

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00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: goes with the kale a little bit. I don't know, um,

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00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: it seems like it might be difficult to hollow out

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00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: a root vegetable like a turn up, but I guess

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00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 1: they could give it a go. Yeah. And the only

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00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: reason that we do pumpkins now was because when the

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00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: immigrants came over, pumpkins were more plentiful New World food,

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00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: yeah than turnips. Alright, so hopefully everybody has some good

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00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 1: ideas now for a Halloween party from the past and

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00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 1: trick or treating on Thanksgiving and November four or your

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00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: miss chiff night. Um, don't come putting cold powder on

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00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: people's doors, so I think that won't win you any friends. Um.

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00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: So do you have anything else on on the history

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00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: of trick or treating? Kristen, I don't think so. I'm

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00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: I'm just excited to have all of these new facts

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00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: about Halloween and trigger treating. I think this is going

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00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,480
Speaker 1: to be the kind of information that impresses people's friends,

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00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: especially at Halloween party. Yeah, it's it's a useful, useful history.

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00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 1: All right. You want to do some listener mail now,

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00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: I mean, since we're talking about stamp dot com and

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00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: what a better segue to listener mail? Yeah, exactly. Well,

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00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 1: and I did take some real mail, and I did

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00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,440
Speaker 1: that partly just because, like you're not getting my history emails,

456
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 1: so at least with postcards you can kind of see

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00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: the fun too. Um. All of these came from listener Becca,

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00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: who took a vacation this summer with her family to

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00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 1: South Dakota. And I'm not going to read all of them,

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00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:21,880
Speaker 1: but there are some really cool pictures. I put up

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00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 1: the Pony Express one on my desk, but I think

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00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:27,640
Speaker 1: my favorite he probably like the Charles Ingle's family Kristen

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00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: of the Little House in the Prairie Fatal House fame.

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00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: Yes see a very good an impressive beard there, um,

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00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: but large beard on the prairie, but be useful for

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00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 1: those cold winters. Um. My favorite postcard, though from Becca,

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00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: has got to be the Corn Palace, which celebrates uh

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00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,960
Speaker 1: it or it's celebrated its hundredth anniversary, and that's what

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00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 1: the picture of. It's this building, a firm structure underneath,

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00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,920
Speaker 1: but one that they decorate and corn related paraphernalia every

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00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: year with a different theme. So I don't know, one

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00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: day I might have to go check that out. So

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00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Becca for all of these beautiful postcards.

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00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: I hope you guys had a good trip. And when

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00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: Blena comes back, we're going to be talking about a

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00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 1: few more of the awesome postcard series we got from

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00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: from you guys summer travels this year. Um, so thank

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00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: you so much again for joining me to discuss this well,

479
00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 1: thank you for having me and suggesting this topic to

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00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: people have wanted something on the history of Halloween for

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00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 1: a long time, but I think the industry of trip

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00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: or treating is maybe even more indicative of this holiday

483
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: and how it has transformed over the the century. Now

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00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: I have to try to make some soul cakes at

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00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: some poin I think so, and and hollow out our

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00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: turn ups and have a big mess of kale and

487
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: turn up greens perhaps lunch Helthy Halloween on the podcast.

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00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: All right, so let us know if you decide to

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00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: do any of these cool old school Halloween traditions. And

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00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: of course, if you have that white horse as your costume,

491
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: you remember what's his name again, Kristen lair Ben. Okay,

492
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 1: if you if you decide to dress with that for Halloween,

493
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 1: you've got to post pictures. We are at History Podcast

494
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 1: at Discovery dot com. It's our email. We're also at

495
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: missed in History on Twitter, and we are on Facebook

496
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: and again check out Kristen's podcast If Mom Never Told You?

497
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: And um, we have loads of Halloween articles, but I

498
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: think you wrote one specifically on trick or treating, didn't you. Yes,

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00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: it's called why do we trigger Treat? All right, So

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00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: there you go. It is a TALC article, but you

501
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: can probably still find that by searching on on the

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00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: homepage for trick or treating. Do that by searching for

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00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 1: trick or Treat on our homepage at www dot how

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00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. For more on this and thousands

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00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:15,959
Speaker 1: of other topics, is a how stuff Works dot com.

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Speaker 1: M m m mmmmm