1 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: The first cup caresses my dry lips and throat. The 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: second shatters the walls of my lonely sadness. The third 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: searches the dry rivulets of my soul to find the 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: stories of five thousand scrolls. With the fourth, the pain 5 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: of life's grievances evaporates through my pores. The fifth relaxes 6 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: my muscles and bones become light. With the sixth, I 7 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: find the path that leads to the immortal ancestors. Oh, 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: the seventh cup, better not take it. If I had it. 9 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: The only feeling as the fresh wind blowing through my 10 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: wings as I make my way to pung Lie. Welcome 11 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 1: to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My Heart Radio. 12 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: Hey you, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. My 13 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. And today 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: we're going to begin a series on t Yes, t 15 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: the beverage and the plant that it comes from. Now, Rob, 16 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: you began today's episode by reading a uh, is this 17 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: a poem or a song? This is a poem by 18 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: Lu Tong from the Tang dynasty titled Seven Bowls of Tea, 19 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 1: and it's it's pretty widely cited. I I ran across 20 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: various like tea blogs talking about and sometimes saying that 21 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:31,680 Speaker 1: this is overly cited in the literature of tea, uh 22 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: you know, especially in the West. Um and I think 23 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: with good reason because it's it's amazing, it's a It 24 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: captures this just intense enthusiasm for tea. And also it's 25 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: essentially about a man drinking way too much tea during 26 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: the course of the day that brings him to the 27 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: to the very brink of like blinking out of physical 28 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: reality and going to uh uh to ping lie the 29 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:58,919 Speaker 1: mystical mountain where you have fantastic creatures and immortal beings. 30 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:02,279 Speaker 1: So you don't want to do the Seventh Cup because 31 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: that will just essentially you will leave your body in 32 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: the place where you currently reside. Right. But it's not, 33 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem to be a case where you have 34 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: to worry about like crashing with that seventh Cup. It's 35 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: just the seventh Cup is one pleasure beyond that which 36 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: you should grant yourself. You should you have to show 37 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 1: restraint because you still have stuff to do here in 38 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: the mortal realm. Well, I like the way that the 39 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: poem escalates because at the beginning it's more just about 40 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 1: the uh. Like the first line is about the sensory 41 00:02:31,760 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: experience caresses dry lips and throat. It's it's happening in 42 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: the mouth. And then after that it's like mood, you know, 43 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: shatters the walls of my lonely sadness. That's mood stuff. 44 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 1: That's level two. But beyond that, you're like talking about 45 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 1: communing with other beings, the path that leads to the 46 00:02:47,520 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: immortal ancestors. Yeah, it gets very spiritual towards the end, transformative. 47 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: Even I've never gone six cups in on caffe aated t, 48 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,640 Speaker 1: but I don't doubt it. Yeah, I, um, my wife 49 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: and I probably have, but only through re steeps. We're 50 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,040 Speaker 1: big into um having a picking out a good tea 51 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 1: that you can resteep several times. So um, I could 52 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: probably write a similar poem about, like, you know, steeps one, 53 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: one through four or five on a particular tea that 54 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 1: I like, because sometimes you get to get the you 55 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 1: get an interesting tea and it changes like cup Cup 56 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: one might actually not be the best cup. It's your 57 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,919 Speaker 1: second or third steep where things maybe become a little 58 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: more nuanced, a little less sharp. I found I found 59 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: that to be the case with some of the poor 60 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: teas that I really like. I assume just the caffeine 61 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: content become less powerful as as you go through multiple steeps. 62 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 1: That is my understanding, and I believe that is my experience. Uh, 63 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: and that's one of the reasons I tell myself that 64 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: it's okay to have so many cups of tea during 65 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 1: the course of an afternoon because I'm getting decres east 66 00:04:00,320 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: returns on on that cup from a caffeine standpoint. But yeah, 67 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: we've touched on tea in the past, we've, but we 68 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:08,720 Speaker 1: I don't think we've ever done a proper deep dive 69 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: on this most splendid beverage US and not just splendid, 70 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: but really one of the most popular beverages in the world. 71 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: You could probably make a case for it being the 72 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: most popular. Uh. There's a great deal of variety to 73 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: how it's cultivated, prepared, brood and consumed. And yeah, there's 74 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: no denying its appeal um, and it's importance weaves in 75 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: and out of global history, various cultures that factors into mythology, literature, politics, 76 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: and much much more. Yes, And to clarify something here, 77 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: I guess we should do this at the beginning. Uh, 78 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,040 Speaker 1: there's a little bit of confusion in English. I don't 79 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:47,200 Speaker 1: know if it's like this in other languages, but at 80 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 1: least in English, there are a lot of things that 81 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 1: we call t that are not made with the T plant. 82 00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: So we use the word tea as like a generic 83 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: synonym basically for an infusion. Anytime you you take a substance, 84 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: herbal or otherwise, you expose it to hot water in 85 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 1: order to extract some kind of flavor or chemical compounds 86 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: into the water, and then you drink the water. People 87 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: will call this a tea no matter what it is. 88 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: So you've got herbal teas made from everything from like 89 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: camera meal, to turmeric to mint, or even cases where 90 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 1: people will will refer to meat based broths as like 91 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: beef tea, but there is no really, But there is 92 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: also the specific tea plant, uh, the leaves of which 93 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: are used to make tea proper. And it is this 94 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: plant and it's eponymous infusion that we're going to be 95 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: mostly focusing on in these episodes. And obviously there are 96 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: various blends that have taken place. There's so many teas 97 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,400 Speaker 1: available now, especially loose leaf teas where you'll have like 98 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: little bits of dried um um flavor bits that are 99 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: not tea, but still the primary ingredient is the dried tea. Now, 100 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: I think one of the other exciting things about this 101 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: is and this is gonna be a fun one to 102 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: hear from listeners because I know everyone out there you 103 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: have your own individual story with tea. You probably have 104 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: your own cultural story with te um. For my own part, 105 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 1: I've come to like a number of different teas. I 106 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 1: want to also throw out an important caveat that I 107 00:06:14,560 --> 00:06:17,119 Speaker 1: would not say that I'm like a t super nerd. 108 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 1: You know, I'm not like I'm not a connoisseur of tease, 109 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: so I'm not going to be speaking from that vantage 110 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: point in these episodes. But I've grown particularly fond of 111 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: these poor ties, which will discuss in due course. UM. 112 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 1: I like several things about them. I obviously I like 113 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: the various tastes. They often have this kind of dark 114 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: earthy or sometimes there's lighter but something There's often an 115 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: earthy tone to them um sometimes compared to hey and 116 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: and that is a flavor profile that I find it works. 117 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: You get interesting results when you do re steeps on it, 118 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: because the hay taste might be a bit strong in 119 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: that first cup, but then cup two or three is 120 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:02,240 Speaker 1: generally the comfort zone for me personally. I also really 121 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,160 Speaker 1: love how so many of these particular teas are preserved 122 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,280 Speaker 1: in bricks or pucks. Sometimes you have to break up 123 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: the brick with a little a little specialized knife, and 124 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,160 Speaker 1: I like the ritual of that. I also like it 125 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: when it's a little puck that's already been prepared, often 126 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: uh circular, sometimes heart shaped uh today and that can 127 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: be a lot of fun as well, and also makes 128 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: it a little handy easy to get into the tea bag. Rob, 129 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: I seem to recall you getting very into the idea of, uh, 130 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: some kind of disgusting nineteenth century way of preparing coffee 131 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: that involved like brick or puck based concentrate, and I 132 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 1: am I remembering that right. Oh no, no, no, I 133 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 1: think I was interested in the study of like Civil 134 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 1: War era instant coffee, but none of it sounded like 135 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: anything I wanted to even experiment with. Okay, no, no, no, 136 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: I just meant that you were interested in the idea, 137 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: and not that like you talking it's virtues as great coffee. No, no, 138 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,800 Speaker 1: it's just it's interesting history, like and It kind of 139 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: speaks to the importance of of caffeinated beverages to the 140 00:08:05,160 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: people who consume them. Uh, you'll have situal like war 141 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:12,280 Speaker 1: situations where people realize, Hey, these soldiers need coffee, these 142 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 1: soldiers need tea. How do we get that to them? 143 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: What is the most cost effective means of doing so? 144 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: What happens when the product is bad? How do the 145 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 1: soldiers in the field relate to this additional indignity. I 146 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:29,440 Speaker 1: also love how tea is like anything else. Uh, there's 147 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,440 Speaker 1: nothing like great branding. I love some of the names 148 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:34,800 Speaker 1: of the teas that I have enjoyed, Like there's one 149 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: called the Bewitched Emperor, there's one called Evil Snake King, 150 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: and so yeah, I'm I'm obviously these are just just 151 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: the labels given to these and these are the English 152 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: I think these are translations though of what they're actually 153 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: called in in the case of these two in China 154 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: as well. But I just love the idea that is 155 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: wrapped up in the branding for these as well. It 156 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: makes me feel like I'm I'm not only enjoying an 157 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: afternoon up with tea, but I'm engaging in something possibly supernatural. 158 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: M Well, I would say that I sense no other 159 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: beverage to have as rich an array of supernatural associations 160 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: as tea. Yeah, I think so, Like there's just there's 161 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: there's so and it's one of the things that's interesting 162 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: but also could probably be intimidating at times as you 163 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:26,479 Speaker 1: get into not just ta culture, but various tea cultures 164 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 1: that all have various practices of uh, how you're supposed 165 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 1: to prepare it, how you're supposed to consume it, and 166 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: so forth. I mean Macha from Japan is of course 167 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: a great example of this um and uh and just 168 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: on its own can be a wonderful tea. Uh. Yeah. 169 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 1: There there's just so many, so many fascinating teas out there. 170 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:49,079 Speaker 1: We're going to touch on some of the tea cultures 171 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: as we proceed through these episodes. But but how about you, Joe, 172 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: what's your your personal story with tea? Well, I am 173 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: not really a t drinker, not because I dislike tea. 174 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: I mean, and when I have it, I enjoy it. 175 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: But I think it's because for me personally, there is 176 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: simply not room for additional caffeine in my life. I 177 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: have my my morning coffee routine, and I have to 178 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,840 Speaker 1: be very careful even with that, because if I have 179 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:15,839 Speaker 1: too much coffee, I will spend the rest of the 180 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: day and night having visions of the doom of all 181 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: and just hear the screams of a dying planet like 182 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: I get the fear bad. And it's strange. I wasn't 183 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: always like that. I can think years back, I used 184 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: to hang out with my friends and drink cup after 185 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: cup of coffee and I was fine. Something happened to me, 186 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,440 Speaker 1: and now I cannot handle that much caffeine. It just 187 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: res me. So after I've had my daily coffee, I 188 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: do not have tolerance for anything else. No no tea proper, 189 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: no no second or third cup whatever. Uh So, in 190 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: order to do caffeine eated tea, I think I would 191 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: have to do a full switch out and have it 192 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 1: instead of coffee, which I've never tried to do. But 193 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: occasionally I do enjoy non tea teas. I like some 194 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 1: herbal teas, lemon ginger and fusions and stuff, and I 195 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,440 Speaker 1: guess they do make decaffeated tea, but I've just never 196 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: gone down that path. M hmm. Yeah, yeah, I'm like you, 197 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,920 Speaker 1: and that I can't quite put aside the morning coffee 198 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 1: I've gotten it down to just two cups of coffee, 199 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,240 Speaker 1: my initial wake up cup, and then the second cup 200 00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 1: of coffee, and then everything after that for me is key. 201 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 1: Generally it's one tea bag, multiple steeps of set tea bag. 202 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: And it's worth keeping in mind when thinking about the caffeine. Now, 203 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: this is just general, and this is maybe maybe can't 204 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: be applied completely across the board, but generally speaking, a 205 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: cup of coffee, standard cup of coffee is gonna have 206 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: somewhere between a hundred and hundred twenty milligrams of caffeine. Meanwhile, 207 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,320 Speaker 1: a cup of black tea is gonna have forty milligrams 208 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 1: of caffeine. Green tea's gonna have thirty. Green and white 209 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: tend to have the least amount of caffeine, followed by oolong. 210 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: These numbers are pointed out by Laura C. Martin, whose 211 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,320 Speaker 1: excellent book A History of Tea is one of the 212 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 1: sources I'm gonna keep coming back to in these episodes. Okay, 213 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: so even if I did try to incorporate uh some 214 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: tea into my daily routine, it would not be equivalent 215 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: to drinking the same volume of coffee. Yes, that that 216 00:12:12,559 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 1: seems to be the case. Now that that being said, 217 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: there are so many ways to prepare tea, and certainly 218 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: you could drink enough tea, you could drink those six 219 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: fresh steeps of tea and risk transporting yourself to the 220 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: mystic mountains. So it's always always possibility, and everybody's different, 221 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: and you know, and and I think our relationship with 222 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: Katheine does change as we age, so naturally, yeah, you 223 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: don't have to be a total tea nerd or immerged 224 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: to any degree within an Eastern culture of tea to 225 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: be into TV, because tea has spread around the globe 226 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: by this point. Tea culture now encompasses everything from British 227 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: high tea to Southern sweet iced tea uh Taiwanese bubble 228 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: tea to things like Senegalese um tea and they're you know, 229 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: they're Tibetan um uh tea preparation methods that are also 230 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: rather distinct, and again we'll come back to some examples 231 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 1: of these later on. But I thought an interesting place 232 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:08,640 Speaker 1: to start might be too. Instead of starting with the 233 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:12,280 Speaker 1: familiar or even anything in the actual real world, we 234 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: might start off by getting into the mythological origins of 235 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: tea even before we get into the botanical realities of tea, 236 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,880 Speaker 1: we might start and just purely mythic and I think 237 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: mostly Chinese mythological origins for this splendid beverage. Oh wait 238 00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: a minute, Wait a minute. If we're getting into a 239 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: myth about a psychoactive substance and its ancient Chinese myth, 240 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 1: are we going to meet the divine farmer once again? Yes, 241 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: yes we will, because of course, if it involves something 242 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: that you should eat or shouldn't eat, and is a 243 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: plan of some sort, then yeah, the divine farmer Shinnong 244 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,680 Speaker 1: has to show up Shinnong putting things in his mouth 245 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:58,679 Speaker 1: for everybody's benefit. That's right. Yes, we've We've talked about 246 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 1: Chinong before on the show. He's a pretty important figure 247 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: in Chinese mythology and he's tied to myths concerning various 248 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: botanical substances. Um. His name literally means divine farmer. He's 249 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: a culture bear, a god um. He's attributed with the 250 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: invention of agriculture and the introduction of agriculture to human beings. Uh. 251 00:14:19,000 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 1: He's an important name in Chinese medicine. He's said to 252 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: have invented various farm tools and musical instruments. Uh, So 253 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 1: there's a lot that this mytholological figure is attributed with. 254 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 1: And you know, obviously as a mythological figure, he is 255 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: sort of summing up and condensing a lot of the 256 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: things that actual human beings did over the course of generations. 257 00:14:40,960 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: Figuring out which plant has a medicinal property or seems 258 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: to which plant is good to eat, which plant will 259 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: kill you, that sort of thing. You should definitely look 260 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:54,680 Speaker 1: up some images of him because he's He's often depicted 261 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: as this kind of squat older man with bovine or 262 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 1: ox like characteristic, often kind of wide set eyes and 263 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: and even one of my favorite things about him is 264 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: he often has these kind of nub like horns. Now 265 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: I have seen depictions I think these are more modern, 266 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 1: but it could be wrong where he has like full 267 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: blown horns, like like a hornet deity. But generally it's 268 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: these kind of nubs where he looks just again, very 269 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: very bovine. Would you call him buds? Are those called buds? Yeah? 270 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: They kind of look like like buds. Yeah. Like, if 271 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 1: you don't know what you're looking at, you might say, well, well, 272 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: why does that man have two bumps on his head? Uh? 273 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: And it's because it's invoking this kind of ox like characteristics, Uh, 274 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: characteristic of the character. And in some tales he was 275 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: said to have had the head of a dragon, others 276 00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: the head of an ox. And so we do have 277 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: to remember that he is a god, of course, so 278 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 1: it's natural that he might have some qualities like this. 279 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: There are various tales about his birth, including some traditions 280 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: that relate his incredible rate of maturity. Uh. Once version 281 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: said that he to talk at three days old, he 282 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: had all of his teeth, etcetera. And in some accounts 283 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: his father was an actual dragon. Wait when you said 284 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 1: had all of his teeth, he meant he was like 285 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: born with all of his teeth, or he had all 286 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: of his teeth when he was three days old. His 287 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: memory serves, and I believe this is related in the 288 00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: book Chinese Mythology by yang On and Turner. Uh, there's 289 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 1: tales it's like, all right, at three days he had this, 290 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: At four days he had this. So he's just maturing 291 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: at a rapid rate, where at like three months old, 292 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:31,800 Speaker 1: he knows everything about agriculture and he's able to teach 293 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: it to humanity. Okay, but the basic story with Shinnong 294 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: concerning plants is that he not only gave humans the 295 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: knowledge of agriculture, he also sussed out which plants were 296 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: useful in medicine and which ones were food, and also 297 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 1: which ones were poison. And he did this, of course, 298 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 1: by testing them all himself. Uh. In some tellings, he's 299 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 1: not actually eating them. He's thrashing them with a reddish 300 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: brown whip, like a whip that is um. And there's 301 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: a lot you can get into with the symbolism of it. 302 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: I've seen that it's there's something to it that this 303 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: is kind of the color of dried blood. Um. Other 304 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: times he has a cauldron. Uh so yeah. In some 305 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,119 Speaker 1: cases he says to have, you know, some tools that 306 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: he's using. But in many tellings and certainly many artistic interpretations, 307 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: he's testing all of these various botanicals out by eating them, 308 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: and then afterwards he passes judgment. He's like, Okay, this 309 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,360 Speaker 1: this is a plant that would be good from medicine, 310 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: so I'm going to put it into my right hand bag. Uh, 311 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: this one is good for food, so it's going into 312 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: my left hand bag. And he sorts it generally like that. 313 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: What about the ones that are poisonous um. He there's 314 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: one tale where if something's poisonous, he just wants to 315 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: stop it. Like, I think there's a story that's related 316 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:50,480 Speaker 1: about Ginger where originally Ginger was said to be poisonous 317 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: and she took a look at each he like he 318 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,200 Speaker 1: checked it out and he's like, yeah, this is horrible. 319 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:56,920 Speaker 1: I want to stomp on it as well. And then 320 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: Ginger had to change in order to be accepted, and 321 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: that's and Ginger went underground. Oh beautiful. Yeah, so yeah, 322 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: I want to explore that one more at some point 323 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: because I don't really understand all the meaning going on there, 324 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 1: but it's it's it's interesting. Now. I don't know if 325 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 1: we've talked about this version of the story with Schino before, 326 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: but as yang On in Turner point out, in Chinese mythology, 327 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:23,880 Speaker 1: some versions also state that Shinong is particularly good at 328 00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: figuring all of this out because he has a crystal 329 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:31,960 Speaker 1: stomach and he can see everything that's going on inside 330 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: of his own internal organs as he's digesting things. He's 331 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: like tobor He's they open up his his stomach and 332 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,920 Speaker 1: they can look inside and see see all the parts working. Yeah. Yeah, 333 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,040 Speaker 1: I just I love, I definitely picture this is kind 334 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 1: of like almost some sort of an android body that 335 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: he has going on underneath his his robes here that 336 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: he can pull it up and yeah, it's just crystal 337 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: organs under crystal skin, and he can observe all every 338 00:18:57,520 --> 00:19:01,200 Speaker 1: little detail going on in digestion. So in some versions 339 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: of the story, the first plant he was said to 340 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: taste was a green leaf, which once he put it 341 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: in his mouth and swallowed it, it went on a 342 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 1: grand tour of his insides, cleaning up everything along the way. 343 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: And again, crystal stomach, so he gets to watch it go. Okay, 344 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: so it's kind of like a dryer sheet or something. Yeah, yeah, 345 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:25,919 Speaker 1: I guess. Um. This particular plant was referred to as cha, 346 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: which means to inspect, which eventually got confused in later 347 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: tellings with cha, which is the exact same phonetic sound 348 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: but a different Chinese character. So the story becomes later 349 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: on that Chinong was poisoning himself upwards of seventy times 350 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:48,160 Speaker 1: a day, testing out the world's plants to determine which 351 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: ones we could use for various purposes, and if something 352 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: got on top of him, he got some poison going 353 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: around in his system, he would turn to the cleansing 354 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,640 Speaker 1: power of tea to detoxify himself. Oh so, by the way, 355 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:04,479 Speaker 1: you should not derive actual use value for from that. 356 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:06,680 Speaker 1: But yeah, so in this version of the story, tea 357 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: is like a universal antidote, right. And my understanding too 358 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 1: is that older versions of the story are not referring 359 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: to tea, but it becomes tea, and later tellings of 360 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: the story. Uh, though though there is this eventually catches 361 00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:25,439 Speaker 1: up with him. Um. I was reading in the in 362 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: that book that one day he has said to have 363 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 1: tried a yellow flower, and upon trying the yellow flower, 364 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,919 Speaker 1: it broke his intestines into pieces. So I guess he 365 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: sees this through his stomach, his crystal stomach. Uh. This 366 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: occurs the just the moment he swallows it, and he's 367 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:45,399 Speaker 1: quickly trying to, you know, get himself some tea so 368 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: he can cleanse everything up, but it is too late. 369 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:51,719 Speaker 1: He dies, and the plant uh that that does this 370 00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 1: to him becomes known as the intestine breaking weed. That 371 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,719 Speaker 1: is brutal in so many ways, especially because it imagines 372 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 1: the testines as brittle rather than elastic. I mean, I 373 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: guess you could think of them that way. Uh, well again, 374 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: it makes me personally think of Shinnong's crystal organs as 375 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: being like glass. And then the shattering is kind of 376 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 1: like when a cartoon character bites on on something that's 377 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: too hard in their teeth. Do that that cartoon shattering thing? 378 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: That's what I picture in my mind happening to Shino 379 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:38,800 Speaker 1: here portion on, Yeah, thank thank Now. There's a book, 380 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:44,240 Speaker 1: Shinnong's Herbal Classic, a later Han dynasty book that includes 381 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: a great deal of knowledge related to various botanical substances, 382 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:51,199 Speaker 1: and this book is attributed to Shinno, likely based on 383 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 1: oral traditions. It includes a passage on t telling us 384 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 1: that it's bitter and share some details about when, how 385 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: and where it grows best. But as Laura C. Martin 386 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: points out in a History of Tea, references to tea 387 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,000 Speaker 1: in this book were probably not original to it, as 388 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 1: the character for tea itself didn't come into usage until 389 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,399 Speaker 1: uh seventh century. But more on the timeline of T 390 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: in a bit, because we're still for now in the 391 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:21,400 Speaker 1: mythic timeline. Okay, But talking about this book attributed to Sinong, 392 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,920 Speaker 1: the idea is that, uh, probably there were earlier versions 393 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: of the book that did not have the tea passages, 394 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: and then recopying through the year's tea passages were inserted 395 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 1: by some editor or copyist exactly. Yes, Now there are 396 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: a couple of other tea related myths here. This is 397 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: one that young on In Turner point out. It's a 398 00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 1: creation myth of the the young ethnic people known outside 399 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: of China as the Poloang people in your non province. 400 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: And it said that in this creation myth, a hundred 401 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:54,639 Speaker 1: and two tea leaves went around and around in the 402 00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: air for thirty thousand years and then transformed into fifty 403 00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 1: one young men and fifty one young hmen. That's the 404 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: beginning of humanity. Now there's another one. This is uh 405 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: This is a tea myth that largely emerges from India 406 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,680 Speaker 1: rather than China. As Martin points out, the early history 407 00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,760 Speaker 1: of tea centers around China, but the plant is indigenous 408 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: to the Assam region of India in addition to southwestern China. 409 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 1: Yet it seems that it was little known or used 410 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: in India prior to the sixth century see heat and 411 00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: if you don't know where it is, a psalm is 412 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:32,120 Speaker 1: located in northeastern India, so the the area of origin 413 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 1: for the tea plant we think is basically southwestern China 414 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 1: northeastern India. Yeah yeah, though it does seem like it 415 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 1: was better known in China as opposed to India. But 416 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: of course we see a fair amount of cultural exchange 417 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: between India and China, and of course the most famous 418 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: example of this is of course Buddhism, and this particular 419 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: story does involve Buddhism as well. It's the story of Bodhidharma, 420 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: who was a fifth century semi legendary Indian prince who, 421 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: much like the Buddha himself a thousand years earlier, came 422 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: to see the emptiness of wealth and abandoned all of 423 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: it in the quest for enlightenment. He became a Buddhist monk, 424 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: and after many years of study, he travels to China 425 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: to reintroduce Buddhism and found Buddhism had been introduced into 426 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,639 Speaker 1: China previously, but this most period where maybe he was 427 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: waning a bit, and he said to end up becoming 428 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,480 Speaker 1: the founder of Chan Buddhism in the process. But while 429 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: he's in China, after visiting the emperor on this trip, 430 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 1: he retreats to a Shaolin temple and here he begins 431 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: a long period of devoted meditation and asceticism. So depending 432 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,720 Speaker 1: on the tail, and again they're different versions with this 433 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: says with most of these stories, he either stares at 434 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 1: a wall for nine years in meditation or he gives 435 00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: up sweep for nine years so that he can really 436 00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: double down on his meditation. In version of this story, 437 00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: he grows so sleepy that he reaches out and he 438 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: grabs a leaf, like a random leaf, and he just 439 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,720 Speaker 1: shoves it in his mouth to chew it as a 440 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: way to perk himself up. And his luck would have it, 441 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: this plant is tea, and it really does perk him 442 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: up because it's we'll discussing a bit it it contains 443 00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 1: a stimulant. Uh. There's another version of this tale, and 444 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: this one um I got in trouble for sharing at 445 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:25,840 Speaker 1: the dinner table in my post research excitement. But in 446 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: this other version, he's getting sleepy and he pulls off 447 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: his own eyelids because it's like heavy eyelids that keep shutting. 448 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,840 Speaker 1: I'm trying to meditate, but I keep falling asleep. So 449 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 1: he just pulls the eyelids off, throws him on the ground, 450 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 1: and then a tea plant grows from where where the 451 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,600 Speaker 1: eyelids fall. So in either case, according to these these 452 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,199 Speaker 1: this legendary account, he discovers tea and passes it on 453 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: to the other monks to assist them in their meditation. 454 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,479 Speaker 1: All right, So that that's just a taste of some 455 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: of the mythological stories and involving the origin of tea, 456 00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:05,840 Speaker 1: this spectacular plant that is either discovered or or perhaps 457 00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: even created out of some sort of inspired inside by 458 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: a legendary or semi legendary individual. Now, when it comes 459 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: to the t plant itself, I uh, there were a 460 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: few things that I actually did not know until recently. 461 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: I don't know if I should be embarrassed about not 462 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 1: knowing these, but I was just pretty much in the 463 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: dark about tea. But one thing I discovered was that, 464 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,000 Speaker 1: apart from the issue of things being called t just 465 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,240 Speaker 1: actually being an infusion of anything, even when you're talking 466 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: about the tea plant itself. I previously thought that the 467 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: main varieties of tea you hear about, like green tea 468 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: and black tea, or maybe oolong tea, were from different plants. 469 00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 1: But actually these are all from the same plant as 470 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: far as I can tell, They're just different preparation and 471 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 1: curing methods. Correct. Yeah, Yeah, they're essentially we're talking about 472 00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: one single species of plant. Camelias sinensis camilius and insus 473 00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 1: is an evergreen shrub or tree and uh, you know 474 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: asterix there, we'll get to that that produces small, white 475 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:14,640 Speaker 1: petaled flowers. In the wild, it will eventually reach tree size, 476 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: but in in situations where it's been cultivated, generally they're 477 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,040 Speaker 1: kept at a shrub size via pruning. Uh. They're typically 478 00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: kept at like a meter or three feet in height, 479 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: as that's an ideal height for picking. Yeah, and so 480 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: you have these top layers of leaves that come out 481 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: and I think they refer to those as flushes, like 482 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,200 Speaker 1: the leaves keep uh protruding, and then the top young 483 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: leaves are harvested. Yeah. And while we're essentially talking about 484 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,800 Speaker 1: one species, there are two varieties. There's Camillia sinensis. This 485 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:49,439 Speaker 1: is the one that's indigenous to western Yunahan and China. 486 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: And then there's a variety of that Camillia sinensis assamica. 487 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: This is indigenous to the Assam region of India as 488 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: well as parts of Myanmar Island, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, and 489 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: southern China. Now, these two varieties, they cross pollinate easily, 490 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:11,280 Speaker 1: so they're also blends of the two, but Martin stresses 491 00:28:11,359 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: that they're they're actually not that different in taste either. 492 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: So the varying tastes and colors of different teas they 493 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: stem from the way we process them, whether you're talking 494 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: about black or green or along, et cetera. And so 495 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: either variety of tea leaf process the same way will 496 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: basically be similar. But at the same time, we don't 497 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 1: want to discount traditions surrounding particular teas. Um. It's one 498 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: of those things. It's kind of like, you know, wine 499 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: taste or any kind of like uh, cultural food tradition. 500 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: There's a lot tied up in knowing where something comes 501 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,200 Speaker 1: from as well, and some of that trans translates into 502 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: the into the taste for the average consumer. Sometimes it's 503 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: something that translates into the the connoisseur's taste experience. And 504 00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: sometimes you're getting into an area where yes, you're being 505 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: primed that this uh, this particular I don't know, um 506 00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: uh you know that this wine stems from this vintage 507 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,680 Speaker 1: versus this vintage, this winery versus this winery etcetera. Yeah, yeah, 508 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I think there are a lot of different 509 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: foods that maybe you actually couldn't tell the difference in 510 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: in a blind taste test. But then again, it might 511 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: be cool to enjoy an authentic version of something knowing 512 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 1: the history behind it, like knowing where it comes from 513 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 1: and being able to think about that and so forth. 514 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: Exactly so. In the wild, tea plants are generally going 515 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: to thrive in an open woodland area or on the 516 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,520 Speaker 1: edge of the woodlands where they can benefit from the 517 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: shade of larger trees. As such, when cultivating tea plants, 518 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: they're generally grown alongside shade trees. Uh. These, as Martin 519 00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: points out, not only provide shade, but also, uh it 520 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: keeps weeds away and enriches the soil. And uh generally 521 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: the leaves and the buds are or what are harvested 522 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: fresh leaves generally contain about four percent caffeine. I'm reading, 523 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: And I was wondering about this because I had read that, 524 00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,640 Speaker 1: uh it is maybe we can get more into this 525 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 1: when we do some of the cultural history. But I 526 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: had read that tea leaves were traditionally treated as a 527 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 1: food plant in China. More so than a beverage plant 528 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: and the beverage uh stage came later. And so apparently 529 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: you can eat tea leaves like you can just prepare 530 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: them like a green and chew them up and eat them. 531 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: People do this sometimes and it's fine, though you need 532 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,560 Speaker 1: to be careful about how much you eat, obviously, because 533 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: you don't want to overdose yourself on caffeine right right, 534 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: because most of us don't have crystal clear guts that 535 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: we can look at and and determine what's happening. Um, 536 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: you know, by the moment. But yeah, that'll be fun 537 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: to get into and subsequent episode. Um. The the history 538 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,440 Speaker 1: of tea as a beverage is also the history of 539 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: a food. Uh so, yeah, I'm looking forward to that. 540 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: But coming back to the caffeine, this is a question 541 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: that applies of course to tea, but also to other 542 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:14,000 Speaker 1: caffeine eated beverages or at least ones that have a 543 00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: natural origin, Like why is there a caffeine in the leaf? 544 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,520 Speaker 1: Like what? What is there? Why? Why is that substance 545 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:25,440 Speaker 1: that that for us humans as a stimulant that kind 546 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 1: of manipulates us as a consumer of the plant, Like 547 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: why is it even there to begin with great question. 548 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 1: So as a jumping off point to answer this, I 549 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: wanted to refer to an article I was reading on 550 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 1: the subject by previous show guest Carl Zimmer, who is 551 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: one of our favorite science writers. He's he's been a 552 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:46,160 Speaker 1: guest on the podcast before. Maybe we'll get him back 553 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: again someday. But he came on to talk about his 554 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: book on jeans and heredity called She Has Her Mother's Laugh, 555 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:54,560 Speaker 1: which is a fantastic book. And so Carl Zimmer had 556 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: an article in The New York Times called how Caffeine 557 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: evolved to help plants survive and help people wake up? 558 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: And he begins by pointing out some rough stats about 559 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: the popularity and power of coffee and caffeine, saying the 560 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,959 Speaker 1: world consumes roughly twenty six thousand cups of coffee per second. 561 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: That's a lot. That caffeine is probably the most widely 562 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 1: used psychoactive substance in the world. But there's an interesting 563 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: thing about caffeine, which is that it has a number 564 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:29,680 Speaker 1: of different associated plants that it comes from. So, for example, 565 00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,240 Speaker 1: there are coffee beans. Coffee beans are the seeds of 566 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: a genus of flowering plant called Caffea or coffee a 567 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: in the family ruby Ashi. These plants are native to 568 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: tropical Africa and tropical Asia. There is, of course t 569 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: tea again is made from the leaves of the evergreen 570 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: shrub Camelius and insis, which is native to East Asia. 571 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 1: There's mate made from the yurba mate plant, which is 572 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 1: a holly shrub native to South America. Scientific name Ilex 573 00:32:57,320 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: paraguari insis and and you've even got chocolate. Chocolate also 574 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,840 Speaker 1: contains caffeine. Chocolate is made from seeds of the cacao 575 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,160 Speaker 1: tree or theobroma cacao. Theobroma, by the way, means food 576 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: of the gods, theo roma uh and historically was not 577 00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:18,120 Speaker 1: always used as an ingredient in sweets and desserts. The 578 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 1: main way we in the United States consume it today. 579 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,440 Speaker 1: It was often consumed as a bitter, hot, or cold beverage, 580 00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: kind of similar to how we consume coffee, which of 581 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: course would have carried a punch of caffeine, and chocolate 582 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 1: does have caffeine. I think our Invention episode where we 583 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,959 Speaker 1: talked to Jeff Beach Bonberri, we talked a little bit 584 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:43,680 Speaker 1: about ancient recipes for hot chocolate essentially, but It's kind 585 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,760 Speaker 1: of interesting to look at this geographic distribution and say, 586 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,400 Speaker 1: how do all of these different plants that are not 587 00:33:52,600 --> 00:33:57,240 Speaker 1: closely related to one another independently make this same compound. 588 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 1: We know why humans like caffeine, but what does caffeine 589 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 1: do for the plants and how did all these diverse 590 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: different species evolved to make it well. This article looks 591 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: at a study published in the journal Science in where 592 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,840 Speaker 1: researchers detailed an effort to sequence the genome of a 593 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,840 Speaker 1: species of coffee plant responsible for many of the world's 594 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:21,880 Speaker 1: coffee beans. This remember, coffee comes from the genus Caffea 595 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: or coffea, and this is a coffee a Caniphora. The 596 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: study is by uh France um Oh. I do not 597 00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 1: know how to pronounce this last name d E n 598 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: O e U d is how the name is spelled 599 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,280 Speaker 1: at all. And the title is the coffee genome provides 600 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,440 Speaker 1: insight into the convergent evolution of caffeine biosynthesis. Again, that's 601 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: in the journal Science. So one thing this study looked 602 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: at is how caffeine is actually synthesized in coffee plants, 603 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: and it turns out it is a multi stage transformation 604 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,360 Speaker 1: of molecule that it begins with a compound called xant zine, 605 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: and the coffee plan it manufactures several enzymes that act 606 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: on this compound. So one enzyme removes an arm of 607 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: the molecule, another enzyme adds a new arm. Two more 608 00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:13,120 Speaker 1: enzymes come in and add two more clusters of atoms, 609 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:16,360 Speaker 1: and after all these transformations, you finally have transformed xantha 610 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: zine into caffeine. And the enzymes involved in this multi 611 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,960 Speaker 1: step transformation are called in methyl transferraces. They are found 612 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: in all plants and they do generally this sort of work, 613 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:33,880 Speaker 1: building specific compounds, many of which plants use to defend 614 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 1: themselves against predators or parasites. And one example of a 615 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: compound manufactured with the help of in methyl transferraces that 616 00:35:43,160 --> 00:35:45,840 Speaker 1: Zimmer sites in the article is salacilic acid, which is 617 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,399 Speaker 1: a compound produced by willow trees which actually turns out 618 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:52,319 Speaker 1: to be a potent pain reliever in animals like us. 619 00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: Salacilic acid is the chemical basis for aspirin. But what 620 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:02,720 Speaker 1: about the enzymes that manufacture caffeine, specifically in coffee. Well, 621 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: the authors determined that some time ago in the evolution 622 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: of the coffee plant, a gene for creating one type 623 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: of in methyl transfer ace enzyme underwent a series of 624 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,200 Speaker 1: mutations to produce a variety of enzymes which would eventually 625 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: create caffeine. And so one of the co authors is 626 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,360 Speaker 1: quoted in Carl Zimmer's articles. This is by Victor A. 627 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,040 Speaker 1: Albert saying, they're all descendants of a common ancestor enzyme 628 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 1: that started screwing around with zanta zine compounds. So the 629 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: plants are just kind of like doing all these little 630 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 1: variations on this originator molecule and producing these derivative molecules 631 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,480 Speaker 1: that in many cases are physiologically active or psychoactive on animals. 632 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: And it turns out scientists had already discovered that caffeine 633 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: was created by the action of in methyl transfer aces 634 00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: in cocaw trees and in the t plant, so similar 635 00:36:56,400 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: molecular frameworks are going on within coffee plants with in 636 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 1: within the tree that makes chocolate or cocao, and within 637 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: ta plants. However, the researchers also found that the enzymes 638 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: for for making caffeine in these different plants did not 639 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: evolve from the same ancestors, so this would be a 640 00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 1: case of convergent evolution. Different branches on the tree of 641 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:24,799 Speaker 1: life evolving the same solution, the same phenotype independently. Uh 642 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: So you can think of a million different examples of this. 643 00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:32,680 Speaker 1: One is wings. Birds and bees both evolved flapping wings 644 00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 1: independently for flight. They didn't get them from a common 645 00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 1: ancestor that had wings. They you know, their last common 646 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: ancestor did not have wings, and they independently, separately came 647 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: up with the same solution. Now, when you see convergent evolution, 648 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: when you see different streams of evolution converging on the 649 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:53,480 Speaker 1: same trait or the same solution to an environmental problem, 650 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,279 Speaker 1: it's usually a sign that that trait or solution is 651 00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,319 Speaker 1: pretty good. It's a powerful adaptation and there's a big 652 00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,160 Speaker 1: survival reproduction payoff. So it would seem, based on the 653 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 1: evidence of convergent evolution, that producing caffeine is definitely good 654 00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 1: for something for the plants. So what is it really 655 00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,440 Speaker 1: good for. Well, there are a few things we can 656 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:17,040 Speaker 1: talk about. One is activity in poisoning or deterring predation 657 00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: by insects. So, like so many of the plant based 658 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: compounds that humans ingest on purpose for their psychoactive properties, 659 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,279 Speaker 1: caffeine seems to be at least in part useful for 660 00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:32,880 Speaker 1: deterring predation by insects. Insects would of course naturally like 661 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: to eat the leaves and the seeds of the coffee plant, 662 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: but high levels of caffeine are toxic to them. And 663 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: this relationship can be seen further in the fact that 664 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,360 Speaker 1: the fruit flied Drosophila drosoft la has the ability to 665 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,399 Speaker 1: taste the presence of certain compounds. I was reading about 666 00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,759 Speaker 1: how they have an array of at least sixty eight 667 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:58,400 Speaker 1: known um These are called seven transmembrane goostatory receptors or 668 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 1: gustatory receptors. Are g ours and uh gustatory, meaning taste. 669 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,960 Speaker 1: So these gustatory receptors allow the fly to sense the 670 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:09,880 Speaker 1: presence of compounds that could kill it or harm it 671 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 1: and avoid eating them. Caffeine is one of those compounds. 672 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,920 Speaker 1: Fruit Flies appear to have a suite of receptors, including 673 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,560 Speaker 1: one called g R sixty six A, that work together 674 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:24,839 Speaker 1: to sense the presence of caffeine in whatever they're they're 675 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: eating and allow an avoidance response to take over. Now, 676 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting to put that together with the 677 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,240 Speaker 1: fact that in the human experience, most alkaloids taste Bitter 678 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: alkaloids are a broad class of nitrogen bearing organic compounds 679 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:46,400 Speaker 1: that plants make, many of which have physiological effects on 680 00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,680 Speaker 1: humans and other animals, effects ranging from uh, you know, 681 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,439 Speaker 1: all your standard types of poisoning and death too, psychoactive 682 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:57,320 Speaker 1: effects such as the stimulant effect of caffeine. So bitter 683 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: taste often causes animals to reject act to food source. 684 00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: So I think it's kind of reasonable to put all 685 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,759 Speaker 1: this together in wonder if the sensation of bitterness when 686 00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:12,360 Speaker 1: ingesting plants rich in alkaloids is perhaps a protective response 687 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,600 Speaker 1: that tells us to stop consuming these plants and reject them, 688 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,839 Speaker 1: similar in effect to the way that a fruit fly 689 00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 1: has the ability to taste and reject caffeine, though with 690 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,799 Speaker 1: a different evolutionary backstory. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, 691 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 1: it makes me think of, you know that the obvious 692 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 1: of example of say, a child being introduced to coffee 693 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,319 Speaker 1: and finding it disgusting, um because it is bitter uh 694 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: and um, you know, you know, And also we have 695 00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: to think about the fact that that the chocolate unsweetened 696 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: has a very bitter taste to it as well, though 697 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: of course in both cases coffee and chocolate. Uh, there 698 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,080 Speaker 1: is of course a process involved here. Uh, we're not 699 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:51,280 Speaker 1: gonna really get into with coffee and and chocolate between 700 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:56,279 Speaker 1: plant and and even the unsweetened food product. But that's 701 00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: something we can come back to in the future. I 702 00:40:57,880 --> 00:40:59,960 Speaker 1: don't have to do something on chocolate saying a few 703 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,919 Speaker 1: it too, absolutely, And yeah, it's interesting to think about 704 00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:06,360 Speaker 1: are the complex human reaction or response to bitterness that 705 00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:11,400 Speaker 1: it seems bitterness is probably primarily biologically relevant in getting 706 00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,920 Speaker 1: us to reject foods. You know. It's like this has 707 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:15,560 Speaker 1: something in it that I don't want to get too 708 00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:17,719 Speaker 1: much of, so I probably don't want to eat too 709 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,760 Speaker 1: much of this. Yeah. So many of the naturally occurring 710 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,919 Speaker 1: pesticides that we consume, h yeah, they have some sort 711 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: of a strong flavor that would tend to convince most 712 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: humans to avoid them, certainly, and in many of the 713 00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,080 Speaker 1: cases with our various spices, avoid them in larger quantities 714 00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:37,520 Speaker 1: than we traditionally use them. And yet we can really 715 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: get a taste for them. I mean, I like the 716 00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:43,840 Speaker 1: bitter taste of coffee and of chocolate and of tea 717 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:46,680 Speaker 1: and so forth. It might have to do with like 718 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 1: it's a level of bitterness that doesn't reach kind of 719 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: a threshold at which you would find it disgusting, like 720 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,919 Speaker 1: it's like below the bar for rejection. Or it could 721 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:58,200 Speaker 1: be a totally it could be a learned response. Maybe 722 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,040 Speaker 1: naturally people don't bitter stuff in any quantity, but if 723 00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 1: culturally they learned to appreciate it, I don't know, maybe 724 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: maybe that's what's making the difference there. Oh, I mean 725 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,680 Speaker 1: in cocktail culture, for example, you you know have a 726 00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: you know, a whole spectrum of bitter drinks. You know, 727 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,120 Speaker 1: sometimes you're just adding a little bitter taste via bitters 728 00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,120 Speaker 1: in many cases to u to to offset sweetness and 729 00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:26,439 Speaker 1: give you a certain flavor profile. But some people go 730 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: especially hard for those those bitter drinks. They're like, I've 731 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:33,360 Speaker 1: never tried one of these, but you have these recipes 732 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 1: floating around for mixed drinks that contain like multiple bitter 733 00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 1: components to try and create like some sort of uber 734 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:44,800 Speaker 1: bitter concoction, which is not for me, but I I 735 00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:47,719 Speaker 1: assume it is for some people who have developed a 736 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 1: taste for all of those bitter components. Well, I mean, 737 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,920 Speaker 1: I do think about how many of the bitter food, 738 00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,400 Speaker 1: almost all of the really enjoyable bitter foods and beverages 739 00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,640 Speaker 1: I can think of or psychoactive in one way or another. 740 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: I mean, I it's not like, you know, bitter greens 741 00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:04,319 Speaker 1: or you know, I like greens that can be better. 742 00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,879 Speaker 1: But I think of coffee which has caffeine. I think 743 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:10,560 Speaker 1: of chocolate which has caffeine. I think of tea which 744 00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: has caffeine. Or I think of alcoholic beverages that are bitter, 745 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 1: like you know, like hoppy beers and so forth. Yeah. 746 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:18,920 Speaker 1: So it's almost like on some level of our bodies 747 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 1: saying this tastes bad, but something good is happening. Yeah, 748 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,759 Speaker 1: but okay. So caffeine one of its roles within a 749 00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 1: plant might be to deter insects or other animals, maybe 750 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: from eating the leaves of the plant. They got enough 751 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,920 Speaker 1: caffeine in there. One way or another, the toxicity of 752 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,520 Speaker 1: the caffeine will drive the animal away. Another interesting idea 753 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,640 Speaker 1: that Zimmer races in this article is that caffeine in 754 00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: coffee plants is suspected to work also by inhibiting the 755 00:43:57,360 --> 00:44:02,040 Speaker 1: growth and germination of other plants. He writes that when 756 00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: coffee leaves die and fall off of a coffee plant, 757 00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:09,080 Speaker 1: they fall down to the soil below, the caffeine content 758 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:12,840 Speaker 1: seeps into the earth and interferes with the ability of 759 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,040 Speaker 1: other plant species in the soil nearby to germinate. So 760 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 1: this helps limit competition for soil resources and sunlight in 761 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: the area. Now, I didn't find anything specifically about whether 762 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: or not that's true with tea plants as well, but 763 00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,680 Speaker 1: it could also be the case if if it works 764 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,600 Speaker 1: for the coffee plant. But one thing where I did 765 00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: find a parallel between how they think caffeine is working 766 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,319 Speaker 1: in coffee plants and tea plants is its role in pollination. 767 00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: I thought this was the most interesting of all. So 768 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,720 Speaker 1: in addition to deterring insect or animal predation and perhaps 769 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 1: limiting competition from nearby plants, UH, the psychoactive and drug 770 00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:55,280 Speaker 1: like properties of caffeine on animals might be not only 771 00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:00,360 Speaker 1: an unintended byproduct or side effect of their physical logical 772 00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:03,760 Speaker 1: activity as a deterrent, they might actually be in part 773 00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:06,279 Speaker 1: the point of the compound, or at least one of 774 00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 1: the points of the compound, and it would work like this. 775 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:13,839 Speaker 1: So coffee and flowering plants that produce caffeine in their 776 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:19,839 Speaker 1: leaves also produce lower doses of caffeine in their nectar. Now, 777 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,160 Speaker 1: plants make nectar as a food for insects as an 778 00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,399 Speaker 1: incentive for insects to spread their pollen. You know, So 779 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,479 Speaker 1: the insect gets sugar from the plant, it gets a meal, 780 00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,640 Speaker 1: and the plant gets helped with reproduction and dispersal when returning, 781 00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:39,080 Speaker 1: gets help spreading its genetic material. Now here's the really 782 00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: interesting thing. Research has shown that when insects feed on 783 00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 1: plant nectar containing low doses of caffeine, they seem to 784 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:52,280 Speaker 1: become more disposed to remember the scent of the flower 785 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:56,319 Speaker 1: where they consumed that nectar, and researchers believe this may 786 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,920 Speaker 1: cause the insect to return to that flower more off 787 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,759 Speaker 1: fen and thus spread its pollen more effectively. So maybe 788 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,520 Speaker 1: out of just one compound there is one molecule that 789 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,640 Speaker 1: the plant creates, it can be getting multiple completely different 790 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,440 Speaker 1: effects depending on the dosage in the different part of 791 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:17,120 Speaker 1: the plant. So maybe higher levels in the leaves will 792 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,080 Speaker 1: deter insects from trying to eat the leaves, but lower 793 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,319 Speaker 1: levels in the nectar will be more like a cup 794 00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:26,719 Speaker 1: of coffee for the insects, which kind of like boosts 795 00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,000 Speaker 1: the insects memory and allows it to return to the 796 00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:35,080 Speaker 1: same plant more frequently and spread that plant's genetic material 797 00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 1: toxic and high concentration, but beneficial to some types of 798 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,360 Speaker 1: brain function at lower doses. Uh. And it's funny that 799 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:44,719 Speaker 1: caffeine has the same dual effect on humans. I mean, 800 00:46:44,719 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 1: if you have too much of it, it will kill you. 801 00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,040 Speaker 1: But if you have these low doses of it that 802 00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,320 Speaker 1: people consume in beverages and stuff, people use it directly 803 00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,120 Speaker 1: as a stimulant to improve their brain function. Yeah. I mean, 804 00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,359 Speaker 1: coming back to Shino the mythical um story here, it's 805 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:04,480 Speaker 1: basically a uh an individual god figuring out to what 806 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:08,640 Speaker 1: degree one should consume the world of poisons around us, 807 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:13,480 Speaker 1: like how much of this poison is appropriate for desired outcome? Um, 808 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:16,360 Speaker 1: and in which poison should we not mess with at all? Exactly. 809 00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:19,400 Speaker 1: So I found this so interesting. But anyway, this was 810 00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,759 Speaker 1: all about the coffee plant. I was trying to find 811 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,640 Speaker 1: is the same thing true of the tea plant? And 812 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: I did, in fact find. A study from just a 813 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,680 Speaker 1: couple of years ago, was from one published in the 814 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:33,280 Speaker 1: Journal of Insect Physiology. It was by g Win Gong 815 00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,560 Speaker 1: at All, and it was called Floral t polyphenols can 816 00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:42,640 Speaker 1: improve honey bee memory retention, and olfactory sensitivity. So the 817 00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,880 Speaker 1: background on the study is to read from their abstract quote. 818 00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:50,440 Speaker 1: Animal pollinated plants face a common problem how their defensive 819 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:56,640 Speaker 1: anti herbivore compounds may impair or alter pollinator behavior. Evolution 820 00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,160 Speaker 1: has tailored multiple solutions which will largely involve pollinat or 821 00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:04,000 Speaker 1: tolerance or manipulation to the benefit of the plant, not 822 00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 1: the removal of these compounds from pollen or nectar. The 823 00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: tea plant Camillia sinensis is famous for the caffeine and 824 00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:17,000 Speaker 1: te polyphenols that it produces in its leaves. However, these 825 00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,960 Speaker 1: compounds are also found in its nectar, which honeybees readily collect. 826 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,960 Speaker 1: So to summarize here, the authors tested the effects of 827 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,680 Speaker 1: these two different products of the tea plant, the of 828 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,800 Speaker 1: the caffeine and the tea polyphenols UH, and they tested 829 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:33,759 Speaker 1: it on the forging behavior of honeybees. And what they 830 00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,719 Speaker 1: say they found is that honeybees preferred simulated nectar from 831 00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,920 Speaker 1: a feeder when it contained te polyphenols over a control 832 00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:45,160 Speaker 1: feeder that did not contain them. And they also found 833 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,960 Speaker 1: that bees that were fed on a feeder laced with 834 00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:52,680 Speaker 1: caffeine showed small improvements in learning, Both caffeine and te 835 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:58,160 Speaker 1: polyphenols increased memory retention and showed influences on other behaviors 836 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,440 Speaker 1: as well, such as like response to alarm pheromones. So 837 00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:04,239 Speaker 1: it seems that the tea plant may well be adapted 838 00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:08,000 Speaker 1: to give pollinating insects small doses of caffeine and tea 839 00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:11,280 Speaker 1: polyphenols for a reason. It could mean, among other things, 840 00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:14,800 Speaker 1: that the pollinating insects are more likely to keep returning 841 00:49:14,840 --> 00:49:18,960 Speaker 1: to the same plant and spreading its genetic material. And 842 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,000 Speaker 1: I thought this was so interesting. So if this is 843 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,160 Speaker 1: in fact the case, Uh, it's it's a more complex 844 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:29,520 Speaker 1: relationship than I usually imagine between plants and the alkaloids 845 00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:33,040 Speaker 1: that they manufacture and the animals that they target, because 846 00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:35,320 Speaker 1: I usually think of the relationship as a pretty simple 847 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,080 Speaker 1: one way interaction, like the the plant alkaloid causes some 848 00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,000 Speaker 1: kind of negative physiological response or reaction in the animal, 849 00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:46,280 Speaker 1: and then the animal is deterred from eating the plant again, 850 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,920 Speaker 1: or the animal is driven to evolve like gustatory receptors 851 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:54,239 Speaker 1: or taste that make the plant taste nasty from the 852 00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,200 Speaker 1: first spite, because you know, it's ancestors that didn't have 853 00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,799 Speaker 1: that may have died. But this is a more complex 854 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,480 Speaker 1: implied relationship. I don't know exactly what to compare it to. 855 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 1: I mean, it's almost like the cultivating of an of 856 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,799 Speaker 1: an analog of an addiction, but one with UH. I 857 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,480 Speaker 1: don't know. Survival benefits for the bee as well, because 858 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,480 Speaker 1: it allows them to keep returning to a food source. 859 00:50:15,840 --> 00:50:18,359 Speaker 1: So before we we got into all this year, I, 860 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:19,880 Speaker 1: if I were put to the test, I would have 861 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:23,440 Speaker 1: just said, well, caffeine implants is just about keeping some 862 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:26,919 Speaker 1: things from eating them, and we've managed to manipulate that 863 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,920 Speaker 1: situation for our own benefit. But yeah, it sounds like 864 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:32,799 Speaker 1: the reality is a lot more complicated. Of course, you 865 00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:37,080 Speaker 1: can't really think about purpose and design and desire in 866 00:50:37,120 --> 00:50:39,560 Speaker 1: the literal sense when it comes to the evolution of 867 00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:43,480 Speaker 1: something like this in various plants species. But I am 868 00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:47,360 Speaker 1: kind of reminded of how some products in the human 869 00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:50,200 Speaker 1: world will end up with more than one purpose, Like, 870 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 1: for instance, I think of bag bomb. Have you ever 871 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,560 Speaker 1: used bag bomb or seen a container bag bomb? I 872 00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:59,400 Speaker 1: don't think so. Explain it's like a little greenkin and uh, 873 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,680 Speaker 1: I believe it dates back to her about eight and 874 00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:06,120 Speaker 1: it was it's a salve to put on cow's utters 875 00:51:06,160 --> 00:51:10,600 Speaker 1: after milking. But people started using it because they realized that, hey, 876 00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,799 Speaker 1: you can put this on dry cracked skin, and so uh. 877 00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:16,000 Speaker 1: I It's one of these things where it ended up 878 00:51:16,040 --> 00:51:19,359 Speaker 1: being there's this whole additional application of the product, an 879 00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:23,560 Speaker 1: entire different consumer base that kind of spraying out of it. 880 00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:26,680 Speaker 1: It's more complicated, obviously with the case with caffeine and plants, 881 00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:29,799 Speaker 1: but it's almost it almost feels like that where there 882 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,319 Speaker 1: may be one purpose that's kind of driving, uh, the 883 00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,960 Speaker 1: evolution of this, but then this other use, this other 884 00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:40,960 Speaker 1: way that it can enhance the survivability of of the plant, 885 00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:44,279 Speaker 1: uh emerges as well, and so you have the sort 886 00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:47,239 Speaker 1: of dual forces driving it at that point. Oh yeah. 887 00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:52,239 Speaker 1: Evolution loves to repurpose pre existing morphology. Is so like 888 00:51:52,280 --> 00:51:56,160 Speaker 1: a structure or a chemical capacity, or something that evolved 889 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,719 Speaker 1: initially for one reason can always be repurposed when a 890 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,719 Speaker 1: new opportunity presents itself. Yeah. And I don't know specifically 891 00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:05,800 Speaker 1: what the order would have been in any of these cases, 892 00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:09,080 Speaker 1: whether you're talking about coffee plants or tea plants, but 893 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:12,800 Speaker 1: you can imagine a compound Initially there is evolutionary pressure 894 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:16,040 Speaker 1: favoring the enzymes to produce that compound because it I 895 00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,000 Speaker 1: don't know, because it deters predation by animals, or because 896 00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,960 Speaker 1: it limits competition when the leaves fall into the soil. 897 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,560 Speaker 1: And then later something like this relationship with pollinators emerges 898 00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:29,320 Speaker 1: using the same compound, and then eventually this relationship with 899 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:33,080 Speaker 1: with human beings who start cultivating it. So it's it's 900 00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,480 Speaker 1: fascinating to think about all of these relationships. All right, 901 00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna go ahead and wrap up this episode, but 902 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,239 Speaker 1: we'll be back in the next episode with more discussion 903 00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:45,120 Speaker 1: of tea. In the meantime, of course, we'd love to 904 00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,400 Speaker 1: hear from everyone out there. You might be thinking to yourself, well, 905 00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:49,919 Speaker 1: I have some tidbit I want to share about tea. 906 00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,360 Speaker 1: But but surely Robert and Joe don't want to hear it. No, 907 00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:54,640 Speaker 1: we want to hear it. Right in. We want to 908 00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:59,160 Speaker 1: know about your individual or cultural uh differences and um 909 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:02,719 Speaker 1: and and app tied for tea. If there there other 910 00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:05,800 Speaker 1: myths or legends or folk tales that you've heard about 911 00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,080 Speaker 1: about the origins of tea. Right in, we would love 912 00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,400 Speaker 1: to hear from you. In the meantime, we'll remind you 913 00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,720 Speaker 1: that stuff to blow your Mind is primarily a science podcast, 914 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:17,560 Speaker 1: with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays. On Monday's we 915 00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:20,760 Speaker 1: do listener mail. That's uh, That's when we will read 916 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,040 Speaker 1: the messages that come in about these episodes. On Wednesday's 917 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:26,280 Speaker 1: we do a short form artifact or monster fact episode, 918 00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,480 Speaker 1: and then on Friday's It's Weird How Cinema Time. That's 919 00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:31,960 Speaker 1: when we set aside most serious concerns and just talk 920 00:53:32,000 --> 00:53:35,240 Speaker 1: about a strange film. Huge thanks to our audio producer 921 00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,680 Speaker 1: J J. Pauseway. If you would like to get in 922 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:40,279 Speaker 1: touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other, 923 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:42,600 Speaker 1: to suggest a topic for the future, or just to 924 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,480 Speaker 1: say hello, you can email us at contact at stuff 925 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:55,759 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow your Mind. 926 00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:58,520 Speaker 1: It's production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for 927 00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,759 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio, I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 928 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:16,080 Speaker 1: wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.