1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Andy and Samantha and welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: I never told your production of I Heart Radio, so 3 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: quick sugar warning for this one. We are gonna be 4 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: talking about some violence, um, some trauma, some sexual assaults, 5 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: some sexual violence issues. We're not going to go too 6 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,440 Speaker 1: deeply in them, but they are kind of part of 7 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: the plots of the movies we're talking about today. So 8 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: if that is not something that you're in a good 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: space for our want to hear right now, totally get 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: you um and come back later, or you know, don't 11 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: if it's it's never gonna be your thing, that's totally cool. 12 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: So yes, and our ongoing tradition of choosing unconventional holiday movies. 13 00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: In December for our feminist movie Fridays, we're doing a 14 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 1: double feature on Black Christmas, which I actually didn't know 15 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: there was another. Yeah, we could have done a triple feature. 16 00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if we could have handled it. I 17 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: don't think I would have been ready for that. No, 18 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: but I had no idea there was another one out there. Um, 19 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,720 Speaker 1: So we're doing the the original and then twenty nineteen one. 20 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 1: So the original one in the newest one, right, the 21 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: one in the middle we're skipping. I gave a little 22 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: bit of a synopsis in my in my run through perfect, 23 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: I read about it because people were comparing kind of 24 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: the differences in the way they handle some of these 25 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: issues and all three of them. So I did read 26 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: about it a little bit, so we'll talk about it. 27 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:41,640 Speaker 1: I saw the original Black Christmas when I was in college, 28 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,399 Speaker 1: I think, and I found it highly disturbing. I still 29 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: found it pretty disturbing. On rewatch, it wasn't as disturbing, 30 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 1: but I think this time I knew more of what 31 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: I was going to get into, whereas the first time, 32 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: I don't think I expected a lot of what happened 33 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 1: in that movie. Yeah, first time from me. For both 34 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: of those, I've never watched and one I don't think 35 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: I was aware of it until a year or two ago, 36 00:02:03,600 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: and we had a listeners like, you should watch Black Christmas, 37 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 1: the newer version, especially when we were talking about all 38 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 1: of the travesties that were happening under the last administration, 39 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: including Kavanaugh and all of that, which is fitting for 40 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: the first movie as well as the second movie. But 41 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: I found that interesting. It was a suggestion. We were like, Okay, 42 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: let's do it. Let's do it. It's out on HBO Max. 43 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: The newest version of the other version is on Peacock. 44 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: If that's so interesting. You are sponsors currently, No, neither, 45 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: none of them. But if you were trying to find 46 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: this movie. Yeah, for me, I don't know what it is. 47 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if it's because I'm just agitated, it's 48 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: that time of year or what um, but I'm like 49 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,399 Speaker 1: at some points, and I've gotten to this in several movies, 50 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,239 Speaker 1: and like thriller situations or moments of like, oh, don't 51 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: go in there, You're gonna die, I'm like, yeah, you 52 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: deserve to die. I definitely had a couple of moments 53 00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: with them like yeah, you deserve to die. That's on you. 54 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: I have no sympathy up there, really, but yes, it was. 55 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 1: The first one was definitely a lot more disturbing to 56 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,519 Speaker 1: me than the second one and a little more cohesive. 57 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: But we'll talk about that later. Yeah, this was my 58 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: first time watching the second one, and I'm actually glad, 59 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: I kind of as I always I always do this, 60 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: I researched it before I watch it. I'm actually glad 61 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 1: I did this for that one. Although alright, spoiler alert, 62 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:23,680 Speaker 1: I guess if if you want to see that when 63 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: you haven't seen it spoiler, we are going to be 64 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: talking about it, talk with the whole thing. Yeah, yeah, 65 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 1: I did read. I did a lot of reading before 66 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 1: I watched the new one, so I knew it was 67 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: all about which I actually think was great. But I 68 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: somehow either I misread something, or somebody was being satirical 69 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: and I misinterpreted it, or they were incorrect. They said 70 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,600 Speaker 1: hardly anyone died in the in the new one, so yes. 71 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 1: So I was watching it like, oh, this is kind 72 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: of nice to know, like everyone's going to be fine, 73 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: and then everyone very much was not fine, and it 74 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: kept happening to the point of saying, wait, immediately the 75 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: beginning scene a death. I know, the whole movie. I 76 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: was just getting more and more confused and thinking, maybe 77 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: it's all what is this? I have been lied to 78 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 1: you had you have been to Yes, it made the 79 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: It was an interesting viewing experience for sure. Okay, but 80 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,040 Speaker 1: let's start with um the old one. The original Black 81 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: Christmas is in nineteen seventy four Canadian slasher movie produced 82 00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,800 Speaker 1: and directed by Bob Clark of a Christmas story and 83 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: written by A. Roy Moore. Clark wanted to portray a 84 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: smarter young adults compared to what was often the norm 85 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: and US horror movies, saying, quote, college students, even in 86 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:51,200 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four are astute people. They are not fools. 87 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: It's not all bikinis, beach blankets and bingo. Because he 88 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: also the writer of Porkies, which is exactly that that 89 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: stereotypy talking about. I did not know that. Okay, so 90 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: I ponder you watched this movie. I found it to 91 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 1: be like the most seventies. It was originally called Silent Night, 92 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: Evil Night in the US to avoid concerns that it 93 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: was a black sportation film. It stars Margot Kidder, Olivia Hussey, 94 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:25,320 Speaker 1: who allegedly accepted the role because of a psychic um, 95 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: Andrea Martin, Lynn Griffin, Marian wabin Here Delay, and John Saxon. 96 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: It is loosely based on the urban legend of the 97 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: babysitter and the Man upstairs. You know the call is 98 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: coming from inside the house, that thing. It's also rumored 99 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: to have been inspired by a series of murders around 100 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: Montreal that took place during the holiday season in nineteen 101 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: forty three, and unfortunately, the television premiere in Night was 102 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: marred by a double murder at a Florida sorority house. 103 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:56,120 Speaker 1: Yeah so apparently, Yeah, the murders are talking about is 104 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: the Bundey murders that happened, which is a fairly big 105 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,919 Speaker 1: case because I was actually survivor in that case. But also, 106 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: just for those who don't know, Margot Kedder is lowest 107 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: in the Superman uh and all of the probably the 108 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:13,159 Speaker 1: more successful of Superman's with Christopher Reeves and Andrea Martin 109 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: is the aunt from my Big Fact Week wedding. I 110 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 1: love her seeing her in this role. What I just 111 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: want to put that out there. Okay, interesting. So The 112 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,559 Speaker 1: Blood follows a group of sorority girls and their drunk 113 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 1: sorority house mother. Unbeknownst to them, a mysterious man climbs 114 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: into the attic while they're having a Christmas party. Um. 115 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: The man calls and Jess, one of the sorority girls, 116 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: answers and here's strange noises and obscene words on the 117 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 1: other end. She gathers the other sotrity girls in the 118 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: house around the phone to listen, um, and one of 119 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: them insults the man who promises to kill her. One 120 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 1: of the other girls. Claire worries that the man may 121 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:58,560 Speaker 1: be dangerous and goes to bed. The killer strangles her 122 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: and drags her body to the attic. When her father, Mr. 123 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:04,479 Speaker 1: Harrison arrives to pick her up in the morning, she's 124 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: nowhere to be found, so he reports her missing to 125 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: the police, only to discover another girl recently went missing 126 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: when walking home. Meanwhile, Jess tells her boyfriend that she 127 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 1: is pregnant and intends to get an abortion. This infuriates him, 128 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: and Jess convinces him that they will discuss it later. 129 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: Determined to find his daughter and the missing girl, Mr 130 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: Harrison returns to the sorority house and helps the girls 131 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 1: there um put one of their drunk sisters to bed 132 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: barb At the same time, the house mother finds Claire's 133 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 1: body in the attic. The man kills her by throwing 134 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: a hook in her face and hanging her. The missing 135 00:07:41,080 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: girl's body is found disfigured in the park at the 136 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: house that Jess gets another obscene phone call and decides 137 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: to file a police report. Her boyfriend arrives and attempts 138 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: to convince her that they should get married. She refuses 139 00:07:55,320 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: and tells him again she is planning to get an abortion. 140 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,560 Speaker 1: He leaves in a huff. Jestice the police survived to 141 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: bug the phone line. After the police leave, the killer 142 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: murders the drunk sister with a glass figuring of a unicorn, 143 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: perhaps one of the ultimate symbols of innocence of young girls. 144 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: Jess picks up another call from the killer, who repeats 145 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: the conversation she had with her boyfriend, scaring her because 146 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: it's implying he's nearby. But Lieutenant Fuller, who is in 147 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: charge of watching the phone line, calls to tell her 148 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,360 Speaker 1: they failed at tracing the call, but that he suspects 149 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: it could be her boyfriend Peter behind it. Jess does 150 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: not agree. Another girl is murdered. The killer calls again 151 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: and tells just a story about two children named Agnes 152 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: and Billy who did something wrong. The police chase the 153 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: call and tell Jess to leave immediately because it is 154 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: coming from inside the house. Jess goes to check on 155 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: the other occuptions of the house. She doesn't want to 156 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: leave them behind um, where she finds two bodies. The 157 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: killer attacks her and just please to the seller. Peter 158 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,080 Speaker 1: shows up outside the window, breaking the glass again to 159 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,199 Speaker 1: the basement. The police show up to find Jess screaming 160 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,880 Speaker 1: and barely conscious, with Peter kind of bloody next to her, 161 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 1: and and just just seems like so out of it. 162 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: The police believe that Peter is the culprit, so they 163 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: are like, okay, this is done. They put just to 164 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: bed with a cop standing outside. But we hear the 165 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: voice of the killer coming from the attic, implying it 166 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: wasn't Peter, and the killer is still alive and still there. 167 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,679 Speaker 1: The bodies of the house mother and Claire are in 168 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 1: the attic, yet to be found, and the phone rings 169 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: end of movie. It's not a really ambiguous ending sequel. 170 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: I did wonder that. I don't think there's a sequel. 171 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: There's been. Yeah, like the from what I understand, the 172 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: one we're not really going to be talking about, kind 173 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: of digs into the killer more and why he is 174 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: where he is. But yeah, I don't think there was 175 00:09:58,080 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: ever a sequel. And this is kind of notorious or 176 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: having like one of these the most ambiguous endings ever. Right, Okay, 177 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 1: you never see his face. Yeah, you don't know if 178 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: she's going to survive. It is it is kind of 179 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about this it is very kind 180 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: of frustrating and a little funny. It's like, the bodies 181 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 1: are right there, right where he is, right in the attic. 182 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: The police clearly have not done a good job start. 183 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: This is the massive bound of like, no one's seen 184 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: this body, No one's going to check on it, No 185 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: one's gonna do a search of the house. No. Oh cool. 186 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: Specially after she found two bodies in there. I would 187 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,440 Speaker 1: think you would be, like, I wonder if the other 188 00:10:41,559 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: bodies are also in here, right, although one of them 189 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 1: they don't know he's dead. The house mother, that's true. 190 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: That's true, because she was like leaving for a trip, right, 191 00:10:52,960 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: she had already left. Yes, yes, yes, that is true. 192 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 1: So when this movie first got released, it got mixed reviews, 193 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,560 Speaker 1: but has since been reappraised, and then it definitely has 194 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: a cult following. Um it's been praised for the influence 195 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: it had on John Carpet's nine film The Thing and 196 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 1: the film Halloween, and it's thought to be one of 197 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: the first slasher movies and one of the first examples 198 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,360 Speaker 1: of the Final Girl and one of the best horror 199 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:31,200 Speaker 1: movies of all time. So that's quite a shift from 200 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 1: like do now people like one of the nurst Um, 201 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:36,719 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to say this because it made 202 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: me laugh. A season's Grievings edition was later released. Oh yeah, 203 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:44,719 Speaker 1: here are sampling of some of the negative reviews it 204 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: got when it came out. It is notable only for 205 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,439 Speaker 1: indicating the kind of junk rolls that talented actresses are 206 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: forced to play in the movies. And that's from the 207 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: Chicago Trabboon and quote before it maddening lely overreaches in 208 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:01,720 Speaker 1: a gratuitously evasive ending. Black Christmas, opening today at selected 209 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: theaters is a smart, stylish Canadian made a little horror 210 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: picture that is completely diverting. It may well be that 211 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: it makers simply couldn't figure out how to end it. 212 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 1: And that's from the Los Angeles Times. Um, but yeah, 213 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:20,480 Speaker 1: people are frustrated with me. And then they were like, wait, however, 214 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: it has yes spawned some remakes since then. Yeah, so 215 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:29,079 Speaker 1: we decided to compare it to the twenty nineteen version 216 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: of Black Christmas, which uh is a bit of an 217 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 1: on the nose take about woke culture. But there was 218 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: a previous remake that was made in two thousand seven, 219 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: which Bob Clark did executive produce. And uh, it followed 220 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: along the theory of the killers being Agnes and Billy 221 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:48,439 Speaker 1: who was abused by his mother by their mother. Um. 222 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: But again, yes, for the twenty nine team movie, we 223 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 1: have a different take with a bit more supernatural element 224 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: to it. And yeah, the two thousand seven is loosely 225 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: also based on the original. That's what they say, So 226 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: they take the whole story, made it their own. Um, 227 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: but it did have some horrifying abuse segues between nineteen 228 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: movie was cast and planned. Soon after, a Blumhouse Productions 229 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: founder made this comment, Uh, there are not a lot 230 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: of female directors period, even less who are inclined to 231 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: do horror. So this was his idea of like why 232 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: this was his answer to why he doesn't have a 233 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: lot of female directors as a part of his company 234 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: or that is a part of any of the movie making. 235 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:31,760 Speaker 1: And of course that got a lot of backlash, and 236 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 1: so soon after he decided to go to this route, which, 237 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 1: by the way, again it's a rule on the nose, 238 00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: cautionary tale, I guess, or like kind of a revenge 239 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 1: movie for all of the sexism that exists. But we'll 240 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: talk about that a minute. So when you look at 241 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: the list of big conchos, though in the movie credits 242 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: it still very male driven, very like I was waiting 243 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: for any other female names. There weren't many, So okay. 244 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: So the philm most directed by Sofia to Call, and 245 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,200 Speaker 1: it was written by to Call an April Wolf, and 246 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: they took this movie in a new script and brought 247 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: on a new set of sorority sisters from m K 248 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: MoU Kappa Epsilon. I believe it's a made up sorority 249 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 1: and we have Riley Stone played by Image and Poots, 250 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: Chris played by Alice Shannon, Marty played by Lily Donohue, 251 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: Jesse played by Brittany O'Grady, Helena played by Madeline Adams, 252 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: and Franz played by Natalie Morris. Now we're really going 253 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: to be more so concentrating on Riley and Chris, so 254 00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: don't get too caught up in all of these because 255 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: the rest die spoiler alert, Yeah to know. So we 256 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: begun the movie with the opening scene following a young 257 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: sorority girl getting ready to go home during Christmas break, 258 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: but we have that every moment of watching her being 259 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: followed by a man who seems a bit too close 260 00:14:57,160 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 1: at the same time, she's receiving messages from a profile 261 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: all of the founder of Hawthorne College, Calvin Hawthorne, which 262 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,920 Speaker 1: is where they're at, who we quickly realize as it 263 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: begins with a quote from him, is a sexist jerk, 264 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,880 Speaker 1: and much like many other horror movies. After an intense 265 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: cat and mouse chasing, she's immediately murdered by a hooded 266 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: mask figure with an icicle. That's always been a thing. 267 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, there you go, the murder, the murder. A 268 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: few years later we see the main ladies of the movie, 269 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: but there is a nice commodity among the women preparing 270 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: for the holiday festivities and just overall friendship and just 271 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: how I kind of talked about in the game that 272 00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: I really love. Uh, there's this like you can tell 273 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,720 Speaker 1: women wrote this, and the fact that they're like, we 274 00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: actually like our female friends. I don't know where this 275 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: therety came from. That we don't we're all competing with 276 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: each other. So it was really nice to see because 277 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: immediately when you think of sorority culture, kind of like 278 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,360 Speaker 1: the old version of Black Christmas, they had two women 279 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: pen like having an argument with each other and and 280 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 1: not liking each other's lifestyles essentially, but you don't really 281 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: have that in this one, so that's kind of nice 282 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: to see Um. But there is a dark cloud that 283 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 1: seems to be looming over Riley, who we know has 284 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: lost both her parents and doesn't want to participate in 285 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 1: the yearly holiday singing, which she did like the year 286 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: before and apparently was really good at it. We move 287 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: on to see them in class, where we see Carrie 288 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: Elwiz Princess Bride fame. Yes, I had a huge crush 289 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: on him Um playing Professor Gilson, who seems to be 290 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: heavily implying that women could not be uplifted without first 291 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: having men being uplifted, and if men were to fall 292 00:16:39,280 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 1: from their power structure, it would only make the whole 293 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: system fill and destroy everything. Uh. There is a bit 294 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: of an intense back and forth where Raleigh is singled 295 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: out and we find out that there's a petition against 296 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 1: the Professor Gilson for his misogynistic and sexist teaching and 297 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: overall attitudes towards the students, led by her sorority sister 298 00:16:57,880 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 1: and friend Chris, Yes, the other one that's to survives 299 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: spoiler alert. So the night is the night of the 300 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 1: Big event before Christmas break, and the fraternity hosting the 301 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:11,040 Speaker 1: event is riddled with toxic fraternity traits, including rape and 302 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: overall disgusting behaviors. Riley prevents a sexual assault from happening 303 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: to a sister, in which we hear the dude calling 304 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,120 Speaker 1: them bitches and teases of course um. She also witnesses 305 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: some type of ceremony where the bust of the founder, 306 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: which was removed due to a protest led by Chris, 307 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: is crying black goo, and all the people are in 308 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,360 Speaker 1: robes and masks, and yes, this is a secret ceremony, y'all. 309 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: Due to the sister being either drunk or drunk the 310 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,679 Speaker 1: one she helped and prevented being assaulted, or both, she 311 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 1: goes home. Riley has to take her place in this 312 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: little musical number, and it soon revealed that Riley had 313 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,320 Speaker 1: been drugged and raped by a former member of that frat, 314 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: and though she reported it, they didn't afford due to 315 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: not believing her. Of course not. And of course he's 316 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: president for that night though he had already graduated, and 317 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,120 Speaker 1: he's welcome back with open arms, and the entire song 318 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,440 Speaker 1: which is at the end credit By the way, if 319 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: you needed a remastered version, it's pretty much talking about 320 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 1: that assault and the toxic culture of the frat makes 321 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: them very angry, the frat and all these things um 322 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: and she gets her courage and faces off with him 323 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: during this performance, again calling out the rape culture and 324 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: about the incident, and then they run back to the 325 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: story house and soon after the girls start disappearing, and 326 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 1: even though Riley is concerned, no one seems to believe her. 327 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,520 Speaker 1: No one, no one including her own housemates. I'm still 328 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: baffled by this. And she makes a report, but the 329 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: campus security seems skeptical, saying nine times out of ten 330 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: girls are just off with their boyfriends, which by the way, 331 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 1: is to throw back to the nineteen four version, and 332 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 1: then even comes out with a classic line boys will 333 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,600 Speaker 1: be and he off, so you know. She tries to 334 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 1: investigate the frat house for her friend, but it's confronted 335 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: by the professor and she runs away after it's being 336 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:05,399 Speaker 1: revealed that their performance went viral, which starts an argument 337 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: between Chris and Riley where it was revealed that all 338 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,919 Speaker 1: the ladies are getting weird threatening d M from this 339 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: Calvin Hawthorne. We then see the ultimate fight scene. It 340 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 1: was two more of the sisters are killed, as well 341 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: as one of the sister's boyfriend, who seems to be 342 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 1: having headaches and acting unlike himself and very masculine. By 343 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: the way, this is why he died. He's like, I 344 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,960 Speaker 1: must protect the people. I am a man. Yes. Really. 345 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: They're killed by the same hood and massed individual who 346 00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: for some reason now has a bow and arrow. Riley 347 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: and Chris are able to kill their assailant, only to 348 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 1: find another one coming at them. Something to note, Riley 349 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: kills one of them with a key trick so many 350 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: women use went in fear while walking alone and parking 351 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: lots or the such. I thought that was a nice touch. 352 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 1: Turns out one of the people killed as the dude 353 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: Riley saw getting initiated into that secret ceremony, and he 354 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: seemed possessed, as in he didn't bleed blood but black goo. 355 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: He year, we see Riley and Chris argue again, Riley 356 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: taking things into her own hands to go after the 357 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: frat while Chris tries to leave but comes up on 358 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: another sorority house that's also being attacked. She helps them 359 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: escape from the same mask hooded monsters. And by the way, 360 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: this original, this new Sorority is the original sisters for 361 00:20:19,119 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: the first person that died in the Movie's happening Yeah, 362 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,960 Speaker 1: and I was like, what's happening. Oh, that's what's happened. 363 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: So coming back to Riley, she and her pink shovel 364 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: that she brought from her home or heading to the frat, 365 00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,400 Speaker 1: running to Crush Landon, who we met earlier, who insists 366 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,719 Speaker 1: on helping her, and then when she arrives at the fraternity, 367 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: she finds Helena, who she thought was dead and she 368 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: was trying to report as missing, but seemed to have 369 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: been kidnapped by the frat. At that point, Riley is 370 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: knocked out but was able to see Helena smile as 371 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: she goes into unconsciousness at Row. When she wakes up, 372 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 1: she's tied up at the same secret place where she 373 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: saw the ceremony take place and is surrounded by others 374 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: and hoods and masks and Landon, who also puts on 375 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,880 Speaker 1: a hood and mask. The Crush you came with her, 376 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: but he's in a trance, and we learned that the 377 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: frat has superpowers to turn all the men into alpha's 378 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: and possessing them through Google. Through the Google misogynistic Hawthorne, 379 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: and they're all being led by Professor Gilson and her 380 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: rapist who's determined to dominate her and punish her for 381 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: dragging his name through the mud. He says, Helena is 382 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: trying to make her see that this is natural and 383 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: submission and compliance were the only way to make the 384 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: world better. But then she dies. She dies violently at 385 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: the hands of the supernaturally strong brothers. Yeah, so we'll see. 386 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: Riley says that she will comply only to attack Brian, 387 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: the rapists, who attempts to murder her. But Chris and 388 00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: the other ladies of the sorority come through, fighting again 389 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:47,120 Speaker 1: with bows and arrows and then anything else they can find, 390 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: and apparently one of them is really good with it, 391 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,680 Speaker 1: so hey, Riley is able to fight off Brian, break 392 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: the bus, and fight against the rest of the frat. 393 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: Chris then lights the professor on fire, and the ladies 394 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: and Landed, who is no longer possessed, run out, locked 395 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: the rest of the fat boys to burn to death. Yes, 396 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: like the original, there were aspects of looking at the 397 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,280 Speaker 1: issues at hand, taking apart some of the societal implications 398 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 1: of that time. Again, it may be a little too 399 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: heavy handed. Maybe I'm just being cynical critique everybody had, 400 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: and that's why that's why I say I'm glad I 401 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: knew that going in, because I actually think it helped 402 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 1: me enjoy it more because I knew, like literally everything 403 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 1: I read an it's really heavy handed, Yeah, it really was. 404 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,600 Speaker 1: I think the conversation of smashing white supremacy and the 405 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 1: misogynies sexism on campus was a key point throughout the movie, 406 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: and the subject of toxic fraternity culture during a time 407 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: as the Kavanaugh confirmation, which was headlines at that point 408 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: and very familiar to many who have been in this 409 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 1: situation or like around that situation, and we've talked about it, 410 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: and it still talked about like all of that toxicity 411 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:01,439 Speaker 1: within specifically those types of fraternities. Now again, I think 412 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,480 Speaker 1: there was so much they're trying to crampack into a 413 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: movie like this, and it was hard to get at 414 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,280 Speaker 1: any point where it didn't feel like it was beating 415 00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,960 Speaker 1: you over the head. And I say this in that 416 00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: they almost villainized Chris, who is one of the few 417 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: women of color in this movie, and to have her 418 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: being like the angry person of color seems so tropish. 419 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, y'all couldn't pick any No, but okay, 420 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: it seemed very much white feminist take to this person 421 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: of color. I'm pointing to myself now, but maybe I'm 422 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: just being too cynical. Again. However, Yeah, the majority of critics, 423 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 1: as you were saying, yeah, they weren't great. They were not. 424 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 1: They was not The criticisms were not great. So many 425 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,879 Speaker 1: reviews were mixed, as the script seemed to have a 426 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,919 Speaker 1: great idea but not so great execution. That was one 427 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 1: of the thoughts from one reviewer, in part to call 428 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 1: wanted to keep the rating PG thirteen to be more 429 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: accessible for a younger crowd, but may have lost some 430 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: of the depth of the movie as it passed through 431 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,399 Speaker 1: it without too many memorable moments in it. And they 432 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: did talk about like the deaths were so like the 433 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 1: characters were so underdeveloped that it didn't really affect us 434 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,960 Speaker 1: when people died, which I will say one of my 435 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: biggest concern was I didn't want Chris to die, of 436 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: course not. I also didn't want the cat to die, which, 437 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:31,840 Speaker 1: by the way, there's a cat in both this twenty 438 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: nineteen version and the nineteen seventy four version that does 439 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: push the plot along. That's how two of the characters died. 440 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: Essentially it was because of the cat. I feel like 441 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: that was purposeful and kind of an homage. So there's that. 442 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 1: But yeah, there you go, twenty nineteen version of Black Christmas. Yeah, 443 00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: it's very different. There are a lot of themes are there, 444 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about them, but it's very different. 445 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,280 Speaker 1: I did. I did. There are parts of it I 446 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: really liked, and I thought a lot of this the 447 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: shots were really good, like really pretty. But yeah, I 448 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: also thought, and I think we're going to talk about this, 449 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: but it kind of the way they handled the whole 450 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,520 Speaker 1: sexual salt thing was a little triggering. Could there be flashbacks? 451 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,520 Speaker 1: But also just how I don't think it was necessarily healthy, 452 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: how they talked about it, and how all of our 453 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: friends were like basically, you've got to get over it, 454 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 1: You've got to face it. I think that was the 455 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 1: other part. Like the friend Chris, when I say they 456 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,720 Speaker 1: villainized her because of this, I really feel like that's 457 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: just what they did with her. And I could get 458 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 1: to a point of like when we talk about social 459 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,359 Speaker 1: justice warriors and the negativity of like you, why aren't 460 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:41,360 Speaker 1: you telling your story? Loud that you need to advocate. 461 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: You like, that's not how I do it. You don't 462 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 1: know my trauma, so we do see that. Yeah, but yeah, 463 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,720 Speaker 1: each one of them forces her into a way that 464 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:55,520 Speaker 1: the like people don't, Yeah, the same way, and this 465 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 1: didn't happen to you, So this is really irresponsible for 466 00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,760 Speaker 1: you to make that you or battleground that this is 467 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: your hell when it's not right. And I'm like, this 468 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 1: is not being good friendships. This is not good And 469 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 1: it felt weird too. At the end where she apologizes, 470 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 1: Riley the survivor is apologizing to a friend for dot 471 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,800 Speaker 1: being stronger and like, wait, that the whole different message 472 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: when you did this? Why did you do this? I 473 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,439 Speaker 1: thought that too. I thought that was pretty damaging for 474 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 1: kind of the art to be. She had to get 475 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:31,960 Speaker 1: the courage and be brave enough to face her her assaulter. 476 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 1: That that scene is like a positive like healing is great, 477 00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: but nothing about that was like her chories and it 478 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 1: wasn't a healthy thing. That murder, right, there's murder. There's 479 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,679 Speaker 1: no therapy, there's nothing. Then we need to sign this 480 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: position and fight, And again I get I get that 481 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:56,760 Speaker 1: kind of comp like thought process to a certain extent, 482 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: and perhaps we're seeing something that wasn't what to call 483 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: had originated. This is not the movie that she wanted. 484 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not saying that anything written in 485 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,639 Speaker 1: her reactions to this, because from what I understand, her 486 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 1: Hulu series or her episode in the Hulu series was 487 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: really great. Um, she got parades. I think the New 488 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,119 Speaker 1: Year Knew You is the one. Yeah, that makes me 489 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: wonder what was originated? What was the thought process? It 490 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 1: makes me think, yeah, this was almost performative from the 491 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:34,639 Speaker 1: male gaze. Maybe that's just whole thing anyway, let's yeah, yeah, 492 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: we'll get into it. We'll get into it, alright. So 493 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:39,800 Speaker 1: one of the big ones is harassment, which we do 494 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: see in both of them and the original. The killer 495 00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: is often described as psycho sexual, someone who primarily targets 496 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 1: girls and women. Um and when he kills Claire, he's 497 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,320 Speaker 1: the first person he kills. Um. He puts a baby 498 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,840 Speaker 1: to on her lap and kind of rocks her. And 499 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: it's this act of infantilization perceived inferiority of women. Clark 500 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: claims to have a backstory for the killer. UM quote, 501 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,399 Speaker 1: Billy is abusive and abused his little sister was abused 502 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: himself and probably killed his parents and probably locked her 503 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: up in a basement for five or six years, and 504 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: I think she escaped. And Billy doesn't like girls, and 505 00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: it turns out Agnes doesn't like boys. Uh, So that's um. Yeah, 506 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:25,680 Speaker 1: we've talked about like sigma around mental health and and 507 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:28,160 Speaker 1: abused and trauma, and so that's kind of an example 508 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: of that. You really don't get any of that, Like 509 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,440 Speaker 1: you kind of it's hard to understand what he's saying 510 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: on the phone. Right, that felt very ablest Uh, not 511 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:41,160 Speaker 1: the rocking and then the overreacting when he kills uh, 512 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: the house mother. It was a weird like moment of 513 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 1: what's happening? Um, his constant bumbling and grumbling and groaning 514 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:55,959 Speaker 1: instead of actual words, it felt very It was uncomfortable. 515 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: You're like, why did you have to do all this? Yeah? Yeah, 516 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: it's it's unsettling. And another thing, many of the deaths 517 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: are filmed through the killers gaze, which we have talked 518 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: about before about how that can be problematic in terms 519 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:17,120 Speaker 1: of like who the audience is connecting with, right right? Yeah? 520 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: And why right? I thought also with the harassment, I 521 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,760 Speaker 1: thought it was something to note the fact that one 522 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: had the phone calls like the landline in the two 523 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: land lines in one little house versus the d M 524 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: s and the fact that having to explain to the 525 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: security guard what a d M is. I thought that 526 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: was really kind of funny. I was like, Okay, is 527 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: that where we are? Yes, Well, it is interesting because 528 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: people have said that. People have said, like when we 529 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: were talked about cyberstocking, Um, that was something people said 530 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,479 Speaker 1: that was kind of a roadblock for them, is that 531 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: they had to explain these technologies to authorities. Another thing 532 00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,400 Speaker 1: that we see in these victim blaming At the beginning 533 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: of the the original film, one of the girls says, 534 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: you can't rape. Oh yeah, I'm not gonna lie. I 535 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: gasped at that. I gasped, yeah, because I was one 536 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: of the things at the very beginning, you you know, 537 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,520 Speaker 1: something troubling has happened around campus and there are some rapes, 538 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: and they talked about we need to take this phone 539 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,640 Speaker 1: call seriously, which was really disturbing, really sexually aggressive messaging 540 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: at the first phone call. And then they say that 541 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: and you're like, ah, excuse me, which is a whole 542 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: different conversation. Yeah, And in the twenty nineteen version, it's 543 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 1: not so much the victim blameman, just more of women 544 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 1: not being believed. Uh. And again the boys being boys 545 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 1: statement and you know, being alpha statement, that's a whole 546 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: different conversation. But it was more so like the fact 547 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: that the other girls weren't concerned, like we should all 548 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 1: be concerned. Why aren't you, like not believing each other, 549 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: not listening to each other, and not respecting each other's boundaries. 550 00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:59,200 Speaker 1: There was a lot of that, and I was like why, yeah, yeah, 551 00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:01,760 Speaker 1: it was definitely my more of a we're just that 552 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, we don't believe you. Yeah, it was 553 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,400 Speaker 1: pretty infuriating. Then there's a lot of dismissing of women, 554 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,840 Speaker 1: speaking of when the girls first report their concerns in 555 00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 1: the original one, the police dismiss them, not believing them 556 00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 1: to be true. When Claire is reported missing and they 557 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,280 Speaker 1: assume she's aw somewhere with her boyfriend, which yes, that 558 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: quote is in both, they ask if she drinks a 559 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 1: lot um, if she's seeing someone else. They don't explore 560 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 1: the house and don't find all the bodies, And also 561 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 1: I did laugh at that they find is it like 562 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:37,320 Speaker 1: Claire's boyfriend who's like I got all this for something, 563 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: and he's so serious faced and he shows up like 564 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: to the police office and then we're all, okay, now 565 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: we'll pay attention, but he's like, this is an outrage, right. 566 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,400 Speaker 1: I think it's interesting that it took a dead body 567 00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: for them to take it seriously. For sure, for sure, 568 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: when we've already talked about that rape has happened. So 569 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: that's yeah, and interesting again. Yeah, we talked about the 570 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: security guard being dismissed, of the women being dismissive of 571 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 1: each other and just kind of disregarding each other's boundaries 572 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: and feelings and whatever whatnot, which calls for all the 573 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:24,800 Speaker 1: arguments as well. Yeah, definitely a big theme of the movie. 574 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:27,640 Speaker 1: And then I wanted to talk about because I feel 575 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: like almost everything I read mentioned to this. But Jess 576 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,400 Speaker 1: in the original version has this sweater it's just like 577 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:38,720 Speaker 1: two skeleton hands over her boobs, and somehow I didn't it. Oh, 578 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,480 Speaker 1: like I didn't notice it the first time I watched it, 579 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: and I read all this stuff about it, I was like, what, 580 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,120 Speaker 1: And then when you see it, you can't see it. Yeah, 581 00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,479 Speaker 1: And so a lot of people have interpreted that as 582 00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: like the male gaze or like this male touch or 583 00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,880 Speaker 1: this patriarchy dragging her back, like it's just like hands 584 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: on her at all times. Um, which I thought, I 585 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: thought that was really interesting. It's quite the striking swriter. 586 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: And then there's Claire. I had I didn't notice that 587 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 1: the first time either, but Claire's posters. She has kind 588 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:10,000 Speaker 1: of these you know, they're not like too sexual, but 589 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:12,840 Speaker 1: like sexual posters in her room and it's sort of 590 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 1: like a gasping moment of her Dad's like I didn't 591 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 1: send her here for this, but she is. It's interesting 592 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,960 Speaker 1: because she's the first to die despite the assumption she's 593 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 1: a virgin. There's a quote in there, quote she's a 594 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: good girl, which normally would put you in final girl 595 00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:32,200 Speaker 1: slash safe territory, but she was the first to go 596 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,600 Speaker 1: in this one. But that's interesting that those two women 597 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: who are pitted against each other as the virginal on 598 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,560 Speaker 1: the slut. The virginal one has a risk a stuff 599 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 1: and the slut has the unicorn and the young innocent stuff. 600 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,280 Speaker 1: I wonder if that was meant to be who knows, Um, 601 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,640 Speaker 1: I bet it was. And then yes, there's a lot 602 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 1: of a lot of themes around assault, especially in the 603 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: second one, especially in second one, so yeah, just like 604 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 1: this whole idea, probably just had her boyfriends and that's fine, 605 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 1: the boys will be boys, saying and when we say 606 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 1: it's on the nose, it's on the nose because it's 607 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,879 Speaker 1: literally that I can't remember her name, but the guy 608 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,400 Speaker 1: who's like having migraines and kind of acting exchange the boyfriend, 609 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 1: he literally says at one point, I like beer, right, 610 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: So like, oh yeah, Bret Kevin All when it was 611 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: so interesting because this was the moment where he's been 612 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: being brainwashed and he walks in. He's getting more and 613 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 1: more aggressive as it goes, and they're trying to figure 614 00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:38,200 Speaker 1: out why, which is soonelike him, and then he's drinking 615 00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: beer and her reaction was you don't even like beer. 616 00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,000 Speaker 1: He's like, I like beer, and it's kind of like 617 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: what And so both of those troupes like, oh, this 618 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,680 Speaker 1: is obviously kevanall reference, as well as the fact that 619 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,759 Speaker 1: we talked about how men like beer. If they don't, 620 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 1: they're not manly, and so that was his beginning of 621 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 1: like I'm at all alpha mel obviously because I'm drinking 622 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 1: beer a little on the nose that one, Yeah, I 623 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: was I was a little confused. I got it, but 624 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: I was also like, this feels kind of out of nowhere. 625 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,280 Speaker 1: But at this point, you don't know about the whole 626 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,319 Speaker 1: goog misogyny thing that's bringing more so I don't know. 627 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 1: And then we also discussed this kind of problematic narrative 628 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,440 Speaker 1: throughout the new one of the responsibility to share your 629 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:24,520 Speaker 1: story and share your story in a certain way. I 630 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,839 Speaker 1: thought this line was interesting. At one point, I think 631 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: Chris says, we could make a list of the guys 632 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: who want us dead, which is every now and then 633 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:33,520 Speaker 1: I take a step back and I think about the 634 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: walking to the car with the keys or all these 635 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,399 Speaker 1: things that we do in our every day that's kind 636 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: of in the back of your head. You're thinking I 637 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 1: could be killed or I could be raped or something like. 638 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:45,880 Speaker 1: Those threats just live there, and we kind of have 639 00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:49,600 Speaker 1: gotten used to them, right, and especially for those who 640 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: actually take a stand or be like one of those 641 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: who do fin for themselves literally are like, hey, I'm 642 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: not going to take this. The amount of people who Yeah, 643 00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: but what she says that it's so dismissive LEAs of 644 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: a like common thing is also like, oh god, mm hmm. 645 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: And then yeah, like I said, definitely not believing women. 646 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 1: There's also kind of a not leaving other women behind 647 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,759 Speaker 1: thing in both um. I'm not sure how successfully it 648 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: was pulled off, but there's kind of this idea of like, yeah, 649 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:25,399 Speaker 1: we're stronger together, we stick together. Yeah, so that was there. 650 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:28,839 Speaker 1: I did want to briefly talk about the abortion part 651 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,239 Speaker 1: from the one, because the first time I saw this 652 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: it kind of shocked me. I was like, WHOA. Jess's 653 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: boyfriend calls her a selfish bitch when she says she 654 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:44,680 Speaker 1: wants an abortion, and interestingly, Jessice never really portrayed villainously 655 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: for this decision. Her boyfriend Peter is instead portrayed as 656 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,440 Speaker 1: a villain, as a violent, angry man who's trying to 657 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:55,720 Speaker 1: control her. Also, interestingly, while Jess is the final girl, 658 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: she doesn't quite fit this trope because she's very open 659 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,680 Speaker 1: about her active sex life. The movie was released soon 660 00:37:02,719 --> 00:37:06,240 Speaker 1: after abortion became legal in both the US and Canada. 661 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: I just that's so interesting. I feel like you don't 662 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 1: really see that, you don't see that as a plot point. 663 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:18,080 Speaker 1: So normally, especially exactly, it's like it's not such a 664 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: big deal for anyone else. And there's no one else. 665 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:21,920 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, it's a bit like 666 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: it's him who is acting like a child and not 667 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: understanding the level of responsibility. Uh. And then you have 668 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,879 Speaker 1: her who's just straight forward like, hey, no, I can't 669 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: do this. I don't love you like that. It is 670 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: interesting because, especially when we talk about the ways of 671 00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,560 Speaker 1: fibinism and how it came through, they were so much 672 00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:45,719 Speaker 1: more accepting. Sminthia has talked about it before, about the 673 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 1: fact that it wasn't that big and it wasn't this 674 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,839 Speaker 1: huge morality thing until later on, unless you know, later 675 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: in history than you would expect, and I think this 676 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 1: might have hit that time weirdly enough. Yeah, And so 677 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,319 Speaker 1: for us it feels at least it felt weird to me. 678 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 1: I'm like, Wow, they're just talking about it, and it's 679 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: not like the main plot point, but it's a plot point, 680 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 1: and it's like she's not bad, she's not being painted 681 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: at a negative light for it, and it's not some 682 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,279 Speaker 1: huge like drama kind of being annoyed with this guy 683 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: and being very mat Yeah, and maybe he's a killer, 684 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: who knows, and maybe he's a killer, but either way, 685 00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 1: you're not meant to sympathize with him, and then I 686 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:29,719 Speaker 1: was I watched both of these back to back, which 687 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:34,400 Speaker 1: was interesting because I kind of there's like this idea 688 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: of this nameless, faceless killer, and it kind of feels 689 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: like in both of them that could represent these ideas 690 00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,640 Speaker 1: were talking about of like misogyny and patriarchy of like, 691 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 1: at the end of the old one, they didn't they 692 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,920 Speaker 1: probably didn't get the guy, um it's going to continue. 693 00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:54,279 Speaker 1: And of course in the newer one, misogyny being like 694 00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: this goog this kind of thing that people are just absorbing. Yeah, 695 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:02,040 Speaker 1: it was just thing. Also, like I remember, I think 696 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: it was in the second one where there was a 697 00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:05,759 Speaker 1: part where I was like, so are they kind of 698 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: saying not all men equals all men? Right? I mean 699 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: in the twenty nineteen version literally has the argument of 700 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,640 Speaker 1: the not all men because Marty the boyfriend, who was 701 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,399 Speaker 1: like I like beer, started streaming at her about you 702 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: love us all in we can't win, and you were 703 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: telling other we are all the bad guys, and she 704 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: was just like, what is happening with you? But essentially 705 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: he is being that boys of saying that feminism has caused, uh, 706 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:40,719 Speaker 1: the villainization of all men. Your fault, but then keep 707 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,160 Speaker 1: that interesting all men, because it's what they wanted to 708 00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:48,279 Speaker 1: do a little less on the nose on that one, 709 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:54,880 Speaker 1: and like see we told you essentially yeah yeah, But 710 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,400 Speaker 1: a part of that too is that this, the newer 711 00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:01,320 Speaker 1: one was definitely big on, like all of this news 712 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 1: stories around sexual assaun on college campuses and me too 713 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 1: and frat culture right again, Yeah, a big theme is 714 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:12,960 Speaker 1: the heavy hitting of woke culture. And I don't think 715 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: they ever say woke in that that term had been 716 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,759 Speaker 1: so big at that point in time, but um, it is. 717 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,400 Speaker 1: It's definitely in there. And then the not necessarily a critique, 718 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:27,719 Speaker 1: but again heavy handed themes where you there was no 719 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,400 Speaker 1: way it was being said every few minutes about white supremacy, 720 00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,759 Speaker 1: the patriarchy, and again it sounds like some of our 721 00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:37,960 Speaker 1: conversations sometimes any I mean, we definitely do live in 722 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,680 Speaker 1: that world, so not so outside of the realms of it. 723 00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: But for a horror movie, it's kind of like what oh, okay, 724 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 1: okay okay. But again it's also portrayed by the one 725 00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:54,280 Speaker 1: who could be seen and disliked because she was too forceful. 726 00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: And I say this in that it seems like it 727 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:04,040 Speaker 1: was a stereotypical casting in what they were doing and 728 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: how they were representing it and putting it all all 729 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 1: one woman, which seemed weird. I'm like, that's not that's 730 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,600 Speaker 1: not always, that's not how that's it. Okay, cool, cool cool. 731 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 1: Um Again, the constant need to fight quote unquote, whether 732 00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: it's through a petition, a song, or literally with knives 733 00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,479 Speaker 1: and bows and arrows, so like, that is definitely heavy 734 00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,240 Speaker 1: handed theme. At one point, one of the critiques about 735 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,560 Speaker 1: this movie stated that they felt like they were trying 736 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:31,880 Speaker 1: to do a good out, meaning they wanted to do 737 00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:37,080 Speaker 1: a very on topical type of movie, but just kind 738 00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:42,040 Speaker 1: of was so overboard that it didn't balance um and 739 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: I can see I could see that. I can see 740 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,840 Speaker 1: that um Riley as the final girl. But here we 741 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 1: actually have two in the two different manners, except one 742 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:54,000 Speaker 1: is singled out as a victim Alpha revenge and the 743 00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,040 Speaker 1: other is a social justice warrior who runs but comes 744 00:41:57,080 --> 00:42:00,840 Speaker 1: back to say her friend after she finds backup, essentially 745 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,759 Speaker 1: like she finds our crew people who are ready to 746 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: fight as well. So I thought that was interesting. But yeah, 747 00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: there was a lot to this movie that I'm like, 748 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: I see where we were going. I think if you 749 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:17,000 Speaker 1: had four hours long, really like build some character, yeah, 750 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: and depth in these characters, rather, it would have gone 751 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:23,640 Speaker 1: a lot further. But they're trying to make it a 752 00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:27,279 Speaker 1: slasher horror movie of what it was originally with all 753 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,320 Speaker 1: the social commentary and not just one or two things, 754 00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:40,040 Speaker 1: but so much. And granted twenty nineteen, two thousand, every 755 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,560 Speaker 1: month probably could be a two hour movie. Let's be real, 756 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,800 Speaker 1: any of those years, each month could be a movie 757 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:49,400 Speaker 1: in itself. So I get like there was a lot 758 00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:52,839 Speaker 1: to try to cram in there, especially when we want 759 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: to talk about It's kind of like one of my 760 00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:56,680 Speaker 1: episodes when I'm like, here, I'm gonna talk about this 761 00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,640 Speaker 1: one thing, and then I've trailed off into two other 762 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 1: subjects that could be in his own. Yeah, So I 763 00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:05,600 Speaker 1: get it, I get it, I get it. But yeah, 764 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,959 Speaker 1: it's definitely one of those like, yes, I understand this. Yes, 765 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:13,040 Speaker 1: and maybe also Anny, on this note, with you and 766 00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: I as both being women who have experienced sexual trauma, 767 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:20,520 Speaker 1: myself as being a person of color, this is like, yeah, 768 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 1: I already know. So maybe that's why it felt so 769 00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 1: on the nose because for us, this is, yeah, the 770 00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,680 Speaker 1: truth of it, and there's nothing different for us. For us, 771 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:32,120 Speaker 1: I mean that's a good point. It's one of those 772 00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: weird things where like seeing it, seeing something like that 773 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,600 Speaker 1: if it's done well, is nice, even if it's like, oh, 774 00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:41,440 Speaker 1: I can tell women have done this. I just remember 775 00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:43,080 Speaker 1: so clear that moment and Birds of Prey where they 776 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,319 Speaker 1: asked about the hair band or something, and I'm like, yes, right, 777 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: So it's like, I'm glad to see those things acknowledge, 778 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,359 Speaker 1: especially when we know, you know, who wrote it and 779 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 1: are are people who have experienced it? But yeah, you're right, 780 00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:01,080 Speaker 1: maybe because maybe we the people watched it and we're 781 00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:03,640 Speaker 1: like what. I definitely had those conversations with male friends 782 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:05,600 Speaker 1: in my life and I'm like, oh, yeah, the keys, 783 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: you know, right, and they don't know, and yeah, I 784 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: think for me, it just felt like too much was 785 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,359 Speaker 1: trying to be done. But also, and this also could 786 00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:18,200 Speaker 1: be very much because we're in this room, but they 787 00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 1: had the whole sexual assault thing. I was like, this 788 00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,960 Speaker 1: was not handled Will, No, it just wasn't handled Will. 789 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:28,480 Speaker 1: And it felt to me as someone who's experienced it. 790 00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: And I don't want to say anything about anybody on 791 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: the because I don't know, but for me as someone 792 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:38,640 Speaker 1: who's experience. It was like, this just feels incorrect. It 793 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:45,759 Speaker 1: doesn't feel like a healthy way of showing this. But well, 794 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,320 Speaker 1: I think the other part that was when we see 795 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:53,719 Speaker 1: the original Helena who's getting assaulted and she's trying to 796 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,399 Speaker 1: prevent this, and then she comes back to the group 797 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,080 Speaker 1: and just literally says, you know, she's just drunk. It's 798 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:00,759 Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, we're not going to talk about 799 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,840 Speaker 1: whether or not she might have been drugged, which you 800 00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,200 Speaker 1: all have already said they do. And they were so 801 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:11,480 Speaker 1: dismissive and point her as if she was like hell 802 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:15,160 Speaker 1: and of course and not seeing an issue with this 803 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:20,759 Speaker 1: moment as the victim herself, the survivor herself, Riley, she 804 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,759 Speaker 1: is triggered, she notices that, and she's triggered. They show 805 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,000 Speaker 1: it a little bit, but then the dismissiveness of it, 806 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:32,120 Speaker 1: it's like, which, this is a weird glazing over of 807 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:38,319 Speaker 1: a really volatile traumatic moment. I don't understand. Yeah. Yeah, 808 00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 1: So there were just some things like that we didn't 809 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:43,200 Speaker 1: even really get to talk about in that whole betrayal. 810 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: Yeah we didn't. I feel like I get it too. 811 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 1: But here's this other part of like, Okay, we gotta 812 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,839 Speaker 1: have the You know, we're not gonna say all women either, 813 00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,839 Speaker 1: but here here's this one woman who wants to be 814 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,759 Speaker 1: subjugated to the I'm like, wait what yeah, yeah, that 815 00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:04,160 Speaker 1: part kind of through me that I was like, I 816 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:07,560 Speaker 1: guess she's seeking possessed. But it just feels it, doesn't, 817 00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: I thought, because it doesn't fit with her character at all. 818 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,600 Speaker 1: I thought I was like back and was like, thank 819 00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 1: you so much for my pen a the hair comb, 820 00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:21,880 Speaker 1: And then it comes back She's like, don't you see, 821 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:23,719 Speaker 1: they gave me a choice, and they can give you 822 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:25,520 Speaker 1: a choice, and if we give in, we'll be okay 823 00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,640 Speaker 1: because I'm gonna take over the world anyway. But this 824 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,719 Speaker 1: this feels right? Doesn't this feel right? She was possessed. 825 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,439 Speaker 1: I don't think she's supposed to be. Well what's that called. 826 00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 1: There's a name for that when you think you would 827 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,280 Speaker 1: get a choice, but there's no choice, but the power 828 00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:42,239 Speaker 1: of tricking people into thinking there's a choice. Right. They 829 00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,120 Speaker 1: were going to get into way too deep of topics 830 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:48,920 Speaker 1: for so many things. So let's let's end it here. Um, 831 00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,520 Speaker 1: we hope that you enjoyed this. I think they were 832 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,359 Speaker 1: both worth watching, to be honest, But yeah, it's some 833 00:46:56,239 --> 00:47:00,160 Speaker 1: interesting things, problematic things, as is it mostly as we 834 00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:04,719 Speaker 1: talk about, yes, and always keep those suggestions coming. What 835 00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:09,160 Speaker 1: should we watch next? You can email us at Stephidio 836 00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:10,799 Speaker 1: Mom stuff That I Heart Media dot com. You can 837 00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:12,800 Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at moms podcast or on Instagram 838 00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,600 Speaker 1: and Stuff I Never Told You. Thanks as always to 839 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:18,040 Speaker 1: our super producer Christina Yes, thank you and thanks, thank 840 00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:20,040 Speaker 1: you for listening Stuff I Never Told You his production 841 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:21,719 Speaker 1: of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts on my heart 842 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:23,879 Speaker 1: Radio is the heart Radio app. Have a podcast wherever 843 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,160 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.