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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to

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Speaker 1: the whitetail woods presented by First Light, creating proven versatile

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Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light

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Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on

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Speaker 2: the show, we are discussing how to make a living

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Speaker 2: in a conservation related field, as well as advice for

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Speaker 2: how to be a more effective volunteer, conservationist and advocate.

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Speaker 2: I'm joined by Chris Bergotti from back Country Hunters and

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Speaker 2: Anglers and Matt Ross of the National Dear Association. All Right,

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Speaker 2: welcome back to another episode of the Wire to Hunt podcast,

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Speaker 2: brought to you by First Light and their Camel for

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Speaker 2: Conservation initiative, which is quite relevant to our discussion today

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Speaker 2: because Camel for Conservation is a that benefits the National

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Speaker 2: Deer Association. Every purchase of first Light's spector cameo pattern,

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Speaker 2: so it could be their source jacket, it could be

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Speaker 2: one of their base layers, could be a hat, whatever

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Speaker 2: it is inspector portion of that sale. The proceeds go

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Speaker 2: to the National Deer Association and a member and a

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Speaker 2: staff member over at the NBA is with us today

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Speaker 2: as well as another person from another great conservation organization, BHA.

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Speaker 2: They're with me today to discuss two different ways that

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Speaker 2: you can work for wildlife, two different ways that you

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Speaker 2: can give back to the natural world and the resources

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Speaker 2: that we as hunters and anglers and outdoors people, you know,

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Speaker 2: that we enjoy so much. It's Earth Week, right, Monday

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Speaker 2: was Earth Day, So I know a lot of people

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Speaker 2: are taking a little extra time this week just to

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Speaker 2: think about how can we give back to Planet Earth.

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Speaker 2: How do we take care of these resources that you know,

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Speaker 2: we enjoy so much, And so it seemed like now

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Speaker 2: would be a good time for us to do that too.

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Speaker 2: So the plan, as I alluded to in the introduction,

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Speaker 2: is to talk through these two different things.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Number one, what if you want to make a living

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Speaker 2: in this world, how can you go about being a

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Speaker 2: professional conservationist? This is a question I get quite a lot.

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Speaker 2: People are curious, you know, how do I get into

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Speaker 2: this line of work? How can I get a job

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Speaker 2: where I'm in some way giving back in some way

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Speaker 2: doing something good for the environment, for wildlife or hunting

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Speaker 2: and fishing. It's a tough question to answer in a

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Speaker 2: quick email or an Instagram message. So I'm glad that

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Speaker 2: we finally found a way to do this in a

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Speaker 2: long form kind of format. So we're going to discuss

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Speaker 2: the pros and cons of working professionally in conservation. We're

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Speaker 2: going to hear from our two guests and hear about

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Speaker 2: their own personal stories and how they landed the jobs

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Speaker 2: they're in, and the winding path they took throughout their careers.

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Speaker 2: We'll talk about I think I mentioned pros and cons,

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Speaker 2: but we will talk about the drawbacks and some of

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Speaker 2: the considerations that you need to think about if you

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Speaker 2: decide to pursue this line of work. And then we

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Speaker 2: also talk about like how to get a job like this,

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Speaker 2: Like what are the most important things to do? What

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Speaker 2: are the ways to open up opportunities that you might

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Speaker 2: be able to make a living doing good things for

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Speaker 2: wildlife and wild places. So that's part one of this chat,

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Speaker 2: and then part two of the chat is, Hey, what

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Speaker 2: if I don't want to change my job. What if

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Speaker 2: you want to keep on doing whatever it is with

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Speaker 2: your career, but you still want to find a way

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Speaker 2: to be a more effective conservationist in your free time?

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Speaker 2: How could you do that? What kind of things can

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Speaker 2: make you a more effective advocate, What kinds of things

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Speaker 2: can help you make more of a positive difference on

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Speaker 2: your nights or weekends, spare time here and there, That

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Speaker 2: and much much more is what we chat about today

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Speaker 2: with my guests Chris Borgatti, who is the Eastern Policy

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Speaker 2: and Conservation manager for Backcountry Hunters and Anglers, and Matt Ross,

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Speaker 2: the director of Conservation for the National Dear Association.

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Speaker 3: And we already recorded the chat, so.

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Speaker 2: I'm coming off of that right now, and I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: give you a teaser, I guess, and tell you that

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Speaker 2: I came out of this one energized, rejuvenated, pumped up,

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Speaker 2: and excited to keep doing this kind of work and

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Speaker 2: to try to do even more of it. You'll hear from

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Speaker 2: all three of us here that this kind of pursuit,

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Speaker 2: whether you do it professionally or you know, as a

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Speaker 2: side things, as a volunteer, you know, just part of

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Speaker 2: your weekends or nights or whatever it is, doing this

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Speaker 2: kind of thing fills the cup.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of things in life that drain you, right.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that can wear you down.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of things that can take the energy

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Speaker 2: out of you. Take that kind of suck your soul, right.

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Speaker 2: I think all of us have done things like that

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Speaker 2: and giving back to the natural world, especially if you

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Speaker 2: can be out there and enjoying it at the same time. Man,

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Speaker 2: that just builds you. It just brings so much light

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Speaker 2: and energy back into your life. So I can't recommend

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Speaker 2: it enough, and I hope you enjoy this chat as

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Speaker 2: much as I did. It's Earth Week.

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Speaker 3: Let's celebrate it. Man.

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Speaker 2: We are the luckiest folks in the world. The fact

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Speaker 2: that we have so much open space still here in

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Speaker 2: North America, the fact that we can still hunt, the

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Speaker 2: fact that we can still fish, that there's clean water,

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Speaker 2: that there's clean air, that they're pretty abundant wild species

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Speaker 2: across big parts of this country still like that is

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Speaker 2: not the case everywhere. That was not always the case here.

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Speaker 2: We've had some ups and downs in the history of America,

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Speaker 2: and we got to make sure that we keep it

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Speaker 2: going up and do not let it slide down, because

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Speaker 2: this is just too damn important. It's too good. The

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Speaker 2: things that we can go and share with our kids,

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Speaker 2: the things that our grandkids could experience someday, the things

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Speaker 2: that you and I could take off this weekend and

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Speaker 2: see firsthand is stuff out of a fairy tale For

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Speaker 2: some people in different parts of the country. These are

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Speaker 2: things that you know, we're living the dream in many ways,

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Speaker 2: and I try to pinch myself and remind myself of

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Speaker 2: that as often as possible. We can't take it for granted.

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Speaker 2: We got to take care of this beautiful planet and

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Speaker 2: the wild creatures that live on it, because man, they

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Speaker 2: have given us so so much.

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Speaker 3: So with all that said, I.

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Speaker 2: Hope you guys enjoyed this one. I'm excited. Let's get

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Speaker 2: to work. Here we go, all right, joining me now

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Speaker 2: on the show. I've got two great guys, great conservationists,

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Speaker 2: and I think perfect guests for our topic today, Matt

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Speaker 2: Ross and Chris Borgotti. Thank you, gentlemen for being here.

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Speaker 3: Great to be here.

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Speaker 4: Likewise, Yeah, appreciate it. Mark.

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Speaker 2: I know you're both busy. I know you're both jet

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Speaker 2: setting from place to place it seems like all the time,

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Speaker 2: so you know, making time to have this kind of conversation,

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Speaker 2: especially Chris, I know you're at a hotel room right

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Speaker 2: now in the middle of a convention. Not easy to do,

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Speaker 2: so I want to be respectful of your time time

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Speaker 2: and just jump right into the meat of our topic

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Speaker 2: today in this week, which is working for wildlife. And

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Speaker 2: I mean that in a slightly larger more holistic way

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Speaker 2: than maybe I've talked in using that term in the past,

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Speaker 2: because you know, anyone listening and you guys too, both

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Speaker 2: know about the Working for Wildlife tour. But I want

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Speaker 2: to talk a little bit about what it means to

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Speaker 2: work for wildlife just on a day to day basis

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Speaker 2: in their own individual lives. I think there's probably two

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Speaker 2: ways people could go about doing this. There's one way,

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Speaker 2: which is, you know, being a volunteer, being an advocate,

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Speaker 2: finding different ways in your own personal life, in your

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Speaker 2: kind of side time, your extra time to in some

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Speaker 2: way help out wildlife or wild places or a species

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Speaker 2: that you particularly care about, public land, whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: But then, one thing we've not really talked much about

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Speaker 2: on this show, but I think a lot of people

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Speaker 2: are curious about, is how to do that professionally, which

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Speaker 2: is something both of you guys do you have found

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Speaker 2: a way to make a living doing good things for

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Speaker 2: the natural world. Raise your hand, Well, that's not a

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Speaker 2: good way. I was gonna tell you to raise your

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Speaker 2: hands but people listening would not be able to see

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Speaker 2: that there are some people watching. But I was going

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Speaker 2: to ask you, you know, do either one of you get

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Speaker 2: emails the way I do about people asking like how

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Speaker 2: do I get into constant conservation work professionally? Are there

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Speaker 2: jobs like that? How could I make a living do

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Speaker 2: this kind of thing? How did you get into it?

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Speaker 2: I got to believe you two have got those types

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Speaker 2: of requests too.

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Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, absolutely, I mean I get a decent amount

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Speaker 5: of them. I'm sure Christo's as well. And I'd say

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Speaker 5: there's more that are coming from people that are in

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Speaker 5: a career already that are thinking about kind of reverting.

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Speaker 5: But I get a fair amount of students that reply

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Speaker 5: or not just me to our organization of how do

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Speaker 5: you know how do I get a job with you?

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Speaker 5: Guys that you know that they're in school. But I'd

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Speaker 5: say the line share is coming from a person that

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Speaker 5: is maybe younger, but in a career and wanting to

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Speaker 5: want to change a career path.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what about you, Chris?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 6: For me, it's I would say mostly people who've already

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Speaker 6: who are already an established career. I think in part

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Speaker 6: they're interested because that's sort of what I did, but

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Speaker 6: also people kind of transitioning naturally. I've had Actually, when

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Speaker 6: I was at Rondezvous this past week, I had a

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Speaker 6: number of individuals who were coming out of military service

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Speaker 6: asking me about, you know, how do you get involved

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Speaker 6: in conservation professionally? Actually, though, yesterday at this conference, I

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Speaker 6: had a luncheon with current graduate students and I was

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Speaker 6: honestly quite surprised given that a lot of the people

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Speaker 6: at this conference were professional science professionals working agencies and

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Speaker 6: things like that. But several people, several of the students

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Speaker 6: asked me about working in an NGO and what that's like,

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Speaker 6: and and uh, you know, public or like a federal

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Speaker 6: or state agency versus a nonprofit. So there's definitely you know,

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Speaker 6: there's definitely people who are interested.

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Speaker 2: When you get that question, Chris, and they're they're kind

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Speaker 2: of curious about it. Do you encourage them or do

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Speaker 2: you warn them off?

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Speaker 3: Uh? I don't. I'm honest.

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Speaker 6: I'm very honest with the pros and the cons and

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Speaker 6: and one of the things questions I kind of put

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Speaker 6: back onto them is you know.

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Speaker 3: What what are you looking for?

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Speaker 6: And what is the balance of things that you value

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Speaker 6: in terms of work? Life, personal life is it? Are

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Speaker 6: you a passionate outdoors person who thinks this is going

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Speaker 6: to allow you to hunt more?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 6: You know, with questions like that, and I think and

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Speaker 6: their responses, I can kind of give them a little

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Speaker 6: bit more tailored response. And but again I'm pretty honest

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Speaker 6: about it. It's not always glamorous. It's it can it

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Speaker 6: can be a grind, just like any job.

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Speaker 5: There's but there, you know, there are different buckets, as

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Speaker 5: you're kind of alluding to, Mark. You know, there is

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Speaker 5: the nonprofit or NGO world, which we both work in,

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Speaker 5: Chris and I.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 5: There is agency work, state or federal. There's there's the

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Speaker 5: private sector, you know, private consulting. There's advocacy work and

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Speaker 5: advocacy groups. Uh, there's resource managers, which kind of like

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Speaker 5: overlaps a different of the you know, different categories, and

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Speaker 5: it does really you know, they all have benefits and

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Speaker 5: drawbacks and I find a lot of joy I really

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Speaker 5: thought I was going one direction early in my career,

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Speaker 5: more to like an agency person.

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Speaker 4: Uh, and I did.

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Speaker 5: I worked at you know, seasonal work for a state

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Speaker 5: agency for in wildlife, but I ended up in the

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Speaker 5: nonprofit world. Uh. And I wouldn't have expected that early

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Speaker 5: in my career. But I'm really I've been here a

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Speaker 5: long time. I'm really pleased with it. And I think

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Speaker 5: one of the things that we both do our organizations,

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Speaker 5: our parent organizations is strong on grassroots, you know, community

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Speaker 5: based work, and it's all and we also do strong

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Speaker 5: educational campaigns and then there's all those other categories that

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Speaker 5: fall under it. And so it's just it's working with people.

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Speaker 5: And if you were a private in the private sector,

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Speaker 5: you're you're working with the resource and your outdoors a lot.

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Speaker 5: If you're with agencies, you're also managing the resource or

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Speaker 5: populations and you work for the people. But it can

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Speaker 5: be a very adversarial kind of relationship with people. Sometimes

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Speaker 5: it's unfortunate. But we have the great fortune of being

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Speaker 5: looked as we say the same message as all those

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Speaker 5: other people and those groups we're right in step with,

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Speaker 5: you know, ecological health and you know population balance and

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Speaker 5: and and habitat and all of the things that we

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Speaker 5: all talk about. But for whatever reason, the people in

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Speaker 5: NGOs tend to be held a little bit higher on

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Speaker 5: a pedestal from a trust factor, and you know, almost

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Speaker 5: like a heroic type thing, which I don't know. Maybe

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Speaker 5: it's my ego and that's why I've been here for

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Speaker 5: nearly twenty years. But yeah, I mean there are those

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Speaker 5: different categories, but there's drawbacks too, as Chris said, and

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Speaker 5: I don't know if your podcast wants to be about

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Speaker 5: that today, what are all the drawbacks? But there are

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Speaker 5: these different buckets that you can work in and they

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Speaker 5: all have really there's there's a benefit to it to

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Speaker 5: the person, but they also have a purpose for you know,

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Speaker 5: each of those jobs can really mean a lot for

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Speaker 5: the resource.

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Speaker 4: If you like being alone.

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Speaker 5: Outside a lot, you don't like working with people, you

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Speaker 5: might go one path, you know.

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Speaker 4: So that's that's what I think about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I do want to get into some of those

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Speaker 2: pros and cons and different you know, recommended paths based

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Speaker 2: on what you're trying to get out of it. But

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Speaker 2: maybe the best way to get into that would just

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Speaker 2: be to look at your own personal examples of how

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Speaker 2: you picked your path and where it took you, at

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Speaker 2: least as a starting point. You could you maybe kick

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Speaker 2: it off, Matt with with what your journey looked like.

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Speaker 2: I mean, did you know from the time you were

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Speaker 2: in high school that this is what you wanted to do,

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Speaker 2: or if not, how did this whole thing get kicked off?

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Speaker 2: Then how did you get to where you are now?

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Speaker 5: I did know from a very early age that I

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Speaker 5: wanted to work in an outdoor sector, specifically deer, and

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Speaker 5: you know, I work for the National Deer Association. So

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Speaker 5: when I look back at my journey, I'm very proud

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Speaker 5: of myself, which is a good thing for anybody to feel.

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Speaker 5: But that was because I grew up in a family

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Speaker 5: that deer hunted, and I belonged to like a sports

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Speaker 5: you know, rotten gun club with my dad and uncles

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Speaker 5: and was around that, and so from high school, you know,

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Speaker 5: later in high school, I was really interested in how

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Speaker 5: I could make that happen. And one of my relatives

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Speaker 5: was friends with somebody that worked for the our state

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Speaker 5: Wildlife Agency. And I live in the state New York

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Speaker 5: up kind of in the hills of the Adirondecks, and

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Speaker 5: one of the wildlife biologists, regional biologists, was friends with

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Speaker 5: my uncle, and so I talked to him about what

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Speaker 5: I would need to do to kind of work with deer,

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Speaker 5: and that set me off on a path of looking

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Speaker 5: at schools that had degrees in wildlife and I went

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Speaker 5: to college in Massachusetts Chris for wildlife biology, got a degree,

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Speaker 5: and then I actually for a bachelor's and went back

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Speaker 5: home and started working as a seasonal wildlife technician for

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Speaker 5: three or four years doing game and non game work.

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Speaker 5: I did some pretty cool stuff work with peregrin falcons

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Speaker 5: and owls, and a lot of deer work and habitat work,

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Speaker 5: and then decided I need to go back to grad school.

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Speaker 5: Just from the path that I was thinking, I was

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Speaker 5: going to go into a role that needed a master's

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Speaker 5: degree and got my masters in wildlife again, the whole

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Speaker 5: time thinking I was going to work and not go

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Speaker 5: to get a PhD, but work in some resource manager's role.

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Speaker 5: Got a master's working with deer in New Hampshire, which

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Speaker 5: was an awesome experience. And before I was even done

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Speaker 5: with school, I got a job working for a private

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Speaker 5: wildlife and forestry consulting company in New England and that

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Speaker 5: was amazing. I really I missed parts of that job.

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Speaker 4: Honestly. On a day to day.

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Speaker 5: I would go out just I worked for a guy

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Speaker 5: that owned the company and there was a small crew

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Speaker 5: of us, but on a day to day it was

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Speaker 5: just me and my chocolate lab in my pickup truck.

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Speaker 5: You know, a guy in his twenties mark and timber,

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Speaker 5: putting paint entrees, work, talking to loggers, talking to landowners,

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Speaker 5: making prescriptions of what to do. So I was out

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Speaker 5: there managing habitat for several years, got my license in forestry,

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Speaker 5: and I was introduced to the NGO world as a

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Speaker 5: volunteer as a member. So, and you know, I knew

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Speaker 5: about several of the groups from a deer side, though

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Speaker 5: I didn't know there was a deer group out there,

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Speaker 5: you know, being a Northeasterner. There are some other deer

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Speaker 5: groups that I think have been around as long or

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Speaker 5: longer than NDA in the Midwest, but I just didn't

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Speaker 5: know of them. And so at the time our organization

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Speaker 5: was growing. Quality Deer Management Association was the name back then,

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Speaker 5: and I joined when I was my last year in

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Speaker 5: grad school. Became a member, started getting the magazine, started

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Speaker 5: a local chapter we call them branches. I was an officer,

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Speaker 5: so I did the volunteer thing, still do. Actually we

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Speaker 5: have a local group, and eventually I saw a lot

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Speaker 5: of value. And I can get into this deeper if

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Speaker 5: you're interested. But I saw a lot of value in

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Speaker 5: the NGO side and applied for a job and got

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Speaker 5: it in two thousand and six. So I had done

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Speaker 5: the net the outside, you know, working on habitat for

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Speaker 5: six years, and then got a job with then QDMA.

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Speaker 5: And it's been coming up eighteen years the spring that

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Speaker 5: I and I've served in various roles, worked with our

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Speaker 5: volunteers in the Northeast.

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Speaker 4: That was my job.

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Speaker 5: Initially, I was a regional director and then moved into

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Speaker 5: our conservation department. I ran our conservation services and training

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Speaker 5: program called dear Steward and developed a program for land

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Speaker 5: certification and anyway, you know here I am all these

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Speaker 5: years later, but so that that's my journey in a

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Speaker 5: five minute snippet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I feel like you've got like the kind

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Speaker 2: of the more traditional path I think, in which you

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Speaker 2: knew from an early age, you got an education, specifically

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Speaker 2: wildlife based, you went and became a practitioner on the ground,

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Speaker 2: and then have moved into like a more managerial role

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Speaker 2: of sorts. I guess maybe manager might be the wrong word,

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Speaker 2: but but you know, I see something different with Chris

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Speaker 2: from what I know about Chris's background. Can you tell

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Speaker 2: us about your path to this point.

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Speaker 3: Chris, Sure, mine is very different.

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Speaker 6: So I yeah, I was in college as a double

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Speaker 6: major environmental science and geography. I sort of thought I

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Speaker 6: would be going into sort of the environmental field in

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Speaker 6: some way, and that's what I did. I started my

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Speaker 6: career as a environmental engineer and was doing all sorts

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Speaker 6: of projects for large wastewater type of projects for large

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Speaker 6: basically most of our clients were large corporations, and doing

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Speaker 6: that work, you know, it was it was really good

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Speaker 6: in terms of the paycheck, but I found that my

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Speaker 6: clients were oftentimes not necessarily sharing the same values I

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Speaker 6: had in terms of the environment, and they were just

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Speaker 6: basically trying to be compliant. And so I kind of

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Speaker 6: had this man, I just I wasn't sure that this

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Speaker 6: was the place for me. And to be honest, I

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Speaker 6: took that job because of the paycheck, and I kind

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Speaker 6: of figured that that is what I'm supposed to do.

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Speaker 6: You know, I've been you know, I've done great in school,

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Speaker 6: have done great in sports, Like this is like you're

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Speaker 6: supposed to achieve and this is sort of a value.

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Speaker 6: And it just occurred to me that no, like I

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Speaker 6: have to have a better impact on the world around me,

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Speaker 6: and so I stepped away from that became a trout

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Speaker 6: bum for a short period of time. I'd like to

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Speaker 6: like to say that I'm completely recovered. If anybody completely recovers, Yeah, well,

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Speaker 6: I've mostly been able to satisfy that by checking flies

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Speaker 6: at saltwater fish a lot. But anyways, before graduate school,

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Speaker 6: someone I was planning on applying to graduate school. There

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Speaker 6: may have been a little bit of an intervention there

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Speaker 6: to kind of encouraged me along the way. And I

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Speaker 6: was going to get there, but you know, I had

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Speaker 6: money in the bank and fish to catch, so I

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Speaker 6: I basically someone suggested, Hey, you should go teach at

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Speaker 6: a at an urban school, and you know, teach a

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Speaker 6: year before graduate school make a difference. And I thought

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Speaker 6: that sounded like actually a good idea. And you know,

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Speaker 6: back in those days there's actual newspapers when employment sections

396
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Speaker 6: and opened up. The newspaper found a science teaching job

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Speaker 6: in Boston, called it up and the principal answered the

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Speaker 6: phone and said, you know, very sorry, the position has

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Speaker 6: been filled. And I asked her if we could do

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Speaker 6: an informational interview because I didn't know anything about schools,

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Speaker 6: didn't know anything about teaching she agreed. I came in

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Speaker 6: and we hit it off right away. I was asking

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Speaker 6: her about her students and the community and the curriculum,

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Speaker 6: and she just stopped mid sentence and said, hey, if

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Speaker 6: I can, if I could offer you this job, or

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Speaker 6: you take it. And I thought to myself, well, yeah sure,

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Speaker 6: and she said, excuse me. She got up went into

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Speaker 6: her secretary's office. I overheard a conversation and the person

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Speaker 6: on the outer line she was talking to she said,

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Speaker 6: I think I've made a mistake or I've made a mistake.

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Speaker 6: The position's no longer available. And that is when I

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Speaker 6: became a teacher. And that was a nearly two decade

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Speaker 6: period of time I was a teacher in that time.

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Speaker 6: I worked at that school for a couple of years,

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Speaker 6: went to graduate school at Boston College, and found my

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Speaker 6: way out of prep school north of Boston, and worked

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Speaker 6: there for about seventeen years. And it was actually a

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Speaker 6: student's question in my class, one of my environmental science

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Speaker 6: class classes.

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Speaker 3: He asked if we.

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Speaker 6: Could talk about hunting and an upcoming unit on food

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Speaker 6: and food systems and food and food systems, a topic

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Speaker 6: that I worked on as an undergrad and I was

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Speaker 6: sort of saving it from when I was going to

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Speaker 6: return after paternity leave. It was right before I went

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Speaker 6: on leave, and I told him, hey, you know, I

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Speaker 6: don't know very much about hunting. I do some research

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Speaker 6: and I will incorporate it when I get back. And

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Speaker 6: I picked up a number of books and you know,

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Speaker 6: started doing some research in that little, you know night

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Speaker 6: when I'm taking care of the baby and all that

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Speaker 6: kind of thing. And it wasn't long before I came

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Speaker 6: to the question, why am I not doing this? Why

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Speaker 6: am I not hunting. I've been fishing my entire life.

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Speaker 6: I'm in the outdoors and in all these places. I'm

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Speaker 6: concerned about where my food comes from. And without having

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Speaker 6: any people in my family that really hunts other than

438
00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 6: a younger cousin, I called them up. I said, I'm

439
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 6: taking hunter safety and then to come down to Virginia

440
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 6: and you're gonna teach me what you know.

441
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:29,920
Speaker 3: And that's where it started.

442
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 6: And you know, in that process, I discovered backcountry hunters

443
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 6: and anglers and got attended a couple events. Next thing

444
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 6: I know, I'm helping out with the Massachusetts State Leadership team.

445
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 6: And then a year or two after that, I joined

446
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 6: the New England Board became increasingly involved in policy and

447
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:56,120
Speaker 6: and that kind of work, and with some really rapid

448
00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 6: growth in the chapter HQ, I need to get a

449
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 6: full time staffer in the Northeast, the chapter coordinator. This

450
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 6: is around the period of COVID when teaching was not

451
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 6: exactly a great time when you're remote and all that

452
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 6: kind of stuff, And I just thought, you know what,

453
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 6: I'm passionate about this. I want to continue to make

454
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 6: a difference. This satisfies that, and applied and was offered

455
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 6: the job. And I've been doing that for a couple

456
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 6: of years now, and this a few months ago. I

457
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 6: was promoted to Eastern Policy Manager and so a little

458
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 6: shift in my day to day.

459
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 3: But yeah, that's the quick version of how I ended

460
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 3: up here.

461
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 5: That's awesome, Chris, super courageous, and I find like depths

462
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 5: of inspiration here in stories like yours. I mean, really

463
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 5: just kind of amazing. And there's more folks out there

464
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 5: just like you, and they should take that leap.

465
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 4: I mean, that is awesome.

466
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, And to be honest, I had a lot of

467
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 6: people not just asking me about making a you know,

468
00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 6: mid I guess I'm in mid life, so they tell me.

469
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 6: I still feel still feel pretty pretty young. A lot

470
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 6: of people outside the conservation space, just former colleagues of mine,

471
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 6: friends of mine, when they heard of me making a

472
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 6: pretty dramatic change career wise, they wanted to talk about it.

473
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 6: They wanted to know how like the courage to do it,

474
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 6: and of course, like I had support, I had support

475
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 6: from my wife, I had you know, I was fortunate

476
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:39,720
Speaker 6: to be in a position where I could take that leap.

477
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 6: And yeah, and to be honest, I'm really glad I did.

478
00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 2: Uh talk to me a little bit about your decision

479
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: making process and motivations other than like you felt drawn

480
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 2: to do it. But I got to believe your old

481
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 2: job had a steady, very reliable paycheck. You had history there.

482
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,240
Speaker 2: You you know, you knew what you had been doing,

483
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,160
Speaker 2: you knew what it was gonna look like moving forward.

484
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 2: You worked at a very you know, really nice prep school,

485
00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 2: seemed you know, kind of glamorous within that world maybe

486
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,960
Speaker 2: a little bit. And now you're gonna take off work

487
00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:21,760
Speaker 2: for an upstart conservation organization. I don't know for sure,

488
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 2: but just from what I know about NNGO is usually

489
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 2: it's less pay. Uh you know, why why would someone

490
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: do that?

491
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 3: Yeah?

492
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 6: Uh? I get that, get that question a lot, and yeah,

493
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 6: it in terms of if you had asked me five

494
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 6: years ago, would I be doing working conservation, I'd say no.

495
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,959
Speaker 6: I totally planned on retiring as an educator at this school.

496
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:51,560
Speaker 6: I could not have worked at a better school. It

497
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 6: was phenomenal, you know, as someone who's coming from a

498
00:27:55,040 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 6: science background. They allowed me to continue to do professional development,

499
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 6: to go to graduate school, to take courses, and I

500
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 6: was able to do climate change research in the art Arctic.

501
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 6: I was tagging sharks in Monterey, California. Like those were

502
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 6: my professional development experiences. It was a great place to be.

503
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 6: But you know, I just, you know, after sort of

504
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 6: immersing myself in them in this space, I recognized that

505
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 6: that I could make an impact and I had this,

506
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 6: I had this opportunity to do it, and you know,

507
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 6: in life, you don't get many of those opportunities.

508
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 3: So Yeah, while there was certainly a little.

509
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 6: Bit of a decrease in benefits for sure, you know, salary,

510
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 6: the fact that I could have had my boys go

511
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:57,280
Speaker 6: to that school tuition free, things of that nature, I

512
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 6: just I just felt like this was something that I

513
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 6: that I wanted to do and.

514
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 3: It was sort of like a fresh fresh start.

515
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:08,960
Speaker 6: And and like I said in the beginning, when I

516
00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 6: had that initial career change, like it was really when

517
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 6: I came to that realization that I couldn't just do

518
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 6: a job, that I had to be able to have

519
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 6: an impact on the world around me and the things

520
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 6: that are important to me. You know, that was something

521
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 6: that I really reflected upon. And yeah, and that was

522
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 6: always something when my students would always ask me at

523
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 6: the last you know, especially my seniors.

524
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 3: My seniors would ask.

525
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 6: Me about you know, the the the you know, any

526
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 6: parting words or advice, and I was I always told them, like,

527
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 6: I blow them off, and like, I'm not.

528
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 3: Giving you guys advice. Do you guys can figure it out.

529
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 3: That's part of life.

530
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 6: But one of I really got pinned down one time

531
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 6: by some students and I'm like, all right, I'll give

532
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 6: you a couple And one of those things was to

533
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 6: to to take a career where you can make a

534
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 6: positive impact. And so many of my students were really

535
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 6: interested in what I was interested in graduating college, which

536
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 6: was you know, having making that you know, having that

537
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 6: big career and and all that kind of stuff. So yeah,

538
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 6: it was an opportunity to do that. It was an

539
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 6: opportunity to continue to have an impact. And yeah, so,

540
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 6: like I said, I took the jump.

541
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 5: I think that I think that job satisfaction thing is

542
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 5: a huge part of well, I mean, it's starting at

543
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 5: the volunteer level all the way up to like careers

544
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 5: like you're talking about, Chris and Mark wants us to

545
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 5: kind of dive into is. I mean, I think one

546
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 5: of the reasons I've stuck with it for so long

547
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 5: is I do feel like I make a difference and

548
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 5: I can see it. It's tangible, and uh, no matter

549
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,920
Speaker 5: what level you're working on, I've always kind of tried

550
00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,560
Speaker 5: to elevate that. Each time I've had a promotion or

551
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 5: a decision to jump into a career like I did,

552
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 5: the same thing trickles down all the way down to

553
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 5: the volunteer because they feel like they're making a difference

554
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:10,120
Speaker 5: than they are. And one of the things I think

555
00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 5: I heard this actually on one of the trivia meat

556
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 5: Eater trivia's is the highest job satisfaction out there is

557
00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,040
Speaker 5: like foresters, you know, they feel like they make a

558
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 5: difference because they're outdoors. It's obviously a little stress doing

559
00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 5: that you're just hanging out with trees, but you can

560
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 5: see change. You can see it. It's tangible, and that

561
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,040
Speaker 5: relates to any job.

562
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:37,960
Speaker 4: And if you're.

563
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 5: Dissatisfied with work, it's really hard to justify that paycheck.

564
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 7: Yeah.

565
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: So one of the upsides then of making your career

566
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:53,560
Speaker 2: revolving some way around conservation is that there's this real

567
00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 2: sense of satisfaction and fulfillment and purpose. And I would

568
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 2: say that's something that I felt in my work on

569
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: What are some of the other things on the positive

570
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 2: side of the career choices you've made that are worth highlighting?

571
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,080
Speaker 2: Anything else other than other than impact in the way

572
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 2: you've discussed it, Is there anything else like when you

573
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 2: look back in your career choice that you're like, man,

574
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: this is this definitely goes in the pro's column that

575
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: someone listening maybe hasn't thought about.

576
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 5: Man, There's so many things that fall under make a difference.

577
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 5: You know, they're all like subcategories.

578
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 4: I feel like.

579
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 5: Being able to work in a community that is like

580
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 5: minded is a positive. You know, you get you get

581
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 5: energy from like minded souls, people that work for the

582
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 5: organization that I'm employed by, but others that that is

583
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 5: a huge positive it's like a daily dose of adrenaline,

584
00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 5: you know, to feel that motivation. You know, from a

585
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 5: deer hunting deer management things have changed. I'm in my

586
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 5: later forties. It's a pretty different world out there, in

587
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 5: good and bad. You know, there's some from at a

588
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 5: population level, and that's one of the things I really

589
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 5: enjoy about my job is working at a national level,

590
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 5: running national conservation programs and seeing change changes in the

591
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 5: actual population of hunters. How that's changing, good and bad.

592
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 5: You know, we're losing hunters, but seeing a different demographic

593
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 5: pick it up, seeing deer heard health change. But then

594
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 5: there's the negative to the CWD issue that we all

595
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 5: know about. And so I feel like one of the

596
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 5: things that I have high again job satisfaction is is

597
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 5: I'm in the mix. You know, the company I work

598
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 5: for is in the mix, and I'm right there at

599
00:33:54,200 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 5: the table about talking about those at a national scale.

600
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 5: And if I worked for myself or worked in the

601
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,719
Speaker 5: private sector, I'd be in a couple counties. Or if

602
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 5: I work for state agency and I was the state's

603
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 5: deer biologists, i would work at a state level. But

604
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,760
Speaker 5: I really like talking about things at a national, national scope.

605
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,919
Speaker 5: So that's one thing that comes to mind too from

606
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 5: a positive.

607
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 3: What about you, Chris, Yeah, I would agree with matt

608
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 3: first point. I think one of the most.

609
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,880
Speaker 6: One of the best parts of it are working with

610
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 6: the people like our grassroots chapter level, our chapters, our

611
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 6: chapter leaders, just our members who are active. It is

612
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 6: such an awesome community and there are so many talented

613
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 6: people that give so much of their time and resources

614
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 6: to to get us to a point where we have

615
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 6: more opportunity, where we have more access. And so that

616
00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 6: community aspect I think is really important and it makes

617
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 6: my job now as as a policy person to be

618
00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 6: able to tap into that that advocate network of people

619
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 6: from around the country. And you know when when you're

620
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 6: in you know, in some grinding political battles, maybe some

621
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 6: legislation that that is very you know, it's just if

622
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,760
Speaker 6: you're dealing with some really tough rhetoric around from animal

623
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 6: rights group and it's just yeah, it's a battle.

624
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 3: You know.

625
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 6: Having just come from our rendezvous, it was such a

626
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 6: big pick.

627
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 3: Me up, you know, just to be around that those people.

628
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:39,920
Speaker 3: The enthusiasm, the energy.

629
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 6: The commitment to make a difference that I think is

630
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 6: it's probably the greatest positive because you know, I think

631
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 6: Matt is as well, like we're we are. We're remote

632
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 6: workers most of the time, and our office is in Missoula, Montana,

633
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:03,400
Speaker 6: but I'm the time sitting in my office in Massachusetts.

634
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 6: So when you are able to connect with not just

635
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 6: your colleagues, but the people your membership, I think that

636
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 6: that's one of the one of the best best parts.

637
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 5: I'll add to that mark before you shift to probably

638
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 5: the negatives is one thing that I was thinking about,

639
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 5: and I mentioned this earlier, you know, being viewed differently

640
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 5: from the outside. The NGO community is viewed differently, almost

641
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:32,560
Speaker 5: like heroic, right, as I said, And that's probably silly

642
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 5: to say. But we in our field of where Chris

643
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 5: and I we connect a couple things. We are all

644
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 5: science based, right, we are involved in policy. All the

645
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 5: NGOs advocate for good things that are happening and oppose

646
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 5: things that are bad. But we take that responsibility the

647
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,359
Speaker 5: NGO world. And I'm just talking from first person. I mean,

648
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 5: I only worked for a few years in an agency setting,

649
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 5: and I'm sure I would find a lot of positives

650
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,840
Speaker 5: if I had done that for seventeen or eighteen years.

651
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 5: But one thing I really enjoy is being the conduit

652
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:16,600
Speaker 5: of information, the educator, the driver of motivation, not just me,

653
00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 5: but like the people that are that are in our

654
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:25,280
Speaker 5: field Chris and mis field. Is taking and packaging things

655
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 5: that are hard to either read because it's deep in science,

656
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 5: you know, scientific literature, and turning it into more of

657
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 5: a layman's term so that people can understand it, or

658
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:42,520
Speaker 5: from a policy end, telling people how to act, not

659
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 5: in the truest sense, but give them the package and

660
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 5: say this is why this is bad or this is

661
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 5: why this is good, and try to motivate them to

662
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 5: act on that. That is also that responsibility in the

663
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:59,880
Speaker 5: role that NGOs serve is also deeply satisfying because that

664
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 5: is the making the difference. It's not only making the difference,

665
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 5: but it's also the community aspect that we talked about.

666
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,920
Speaker 5: Where you're marrying those two. You have a community that

667
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 5: trusts you and listens, and you can get them to

668
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 5: take good action to make a difference for whatever species

669
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 5: you're you're you know, concentrating on For us, it's deer,

670
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 5: and there are other groups that you know, focus on

671
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,240
Speaker 5: turkeys and ducks and others. Or if it's just public

672
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,400
Speaker 5: land management or you know, whatever the umbrella is that

673
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:35,600
Speaker 5: the organization oversees, you funnel that energy and you can

674
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,279
Speaker 5: point it like a bow or a gun towards the

675
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 5: bad and motivate people to take take action. Which that

676
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 5: is one of the things I love about sitting at

677
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 5: this desk every day, honestly, is I do work from

678
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 5: the field, but sitting down there are there's a lot

679
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 5: of pleasure in knowing that that difference is going to

680
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:58,479
Speaker 5: happen because that responsibility is on us.

681
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

682
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I would add that we occupy like a

683
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 6: really we're really lucky that we occupy in a kind

684
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 6: of a unique niche in the greater sort of hunting

685
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,879
Speaker 6: and fishing space. Like we're we're kind of like industry adjacent, right,

686
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 6: We're not.

687
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:17,880
Speaker 3: We're not necessarily.

688
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 6: Part of the industry where we're not necessarily part of

689
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 6: the agencies, the state or federal agencies.

690
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 3: So what we have the great.

691
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 6: Opportunity to do is to represent the stakeholders who are

692
00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 6: in the middle of that and and like you said, Matt,

693
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:40,800
Speaker 6: like to sort of represent, to help support, to direct,

694
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 6: to empower, and to elevate the voice of that of

695
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 6: the stakeholders, the actual hunters and anglers.

696
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: You. So you mentioned something there Matt a second ago

697
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:06,399
Speaker 2: about just that energy you know that you have there

698
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,800
Speaker 2: that you can harness, and it just got me thinking

699
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 2: about another part of this part of my of my

700
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: role that gives me so much energy, And it's the

701
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,320
Speaker 2: fact that this kind of work because of those types

702
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 2: of impacts that you guys are talking about, because of

703
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:26,439
Speaker 2: the downstream effects that we can help bring to life.

704
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:33,719
Speaker 2: It's just personally so like intellectually stimulating and internally motivating.

705
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,359
Speaker 2: And I think that's a huge positive too. Like when

706
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 2: I wake up in the morning and I know that

707
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 2: what I'm going to be working on today has the

708
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 2: potential to make that difference, Like what I'm going to

709
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 2: be working on today like lights of fire in my belly,

710
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:49,200
Speaker 2: and I'm excited to get to the computer and start

711
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,920
Speaker 2: writing about this thing, or I'm excited to fly to

712
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 2: wherever and work on this project because like I know

713
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 2: it's going to make a difference, and I know there's

714
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:58,439
Speaker 2: gonna be other people that'll be influenced by and that will,

715
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:00,399
Speaker 2: you know, join me in this thing, and like all

716
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 2: of that creates like a cycle of positivity and like

717
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 2: your own you know, in your daily life that I

718
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,160
Speaker 2: know from my previous work I've done, you don't have that,

719
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 2: even when you've got a great salary and maybe it's

720
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:20,280
Speaker 2: challenging work and fun people, when there's not that sense

721
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 2: of like, well, I guess it all comes back to

722
00:41:23,040 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: impact and purpose and what you're doing. But when you

723
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 2: have that, it lights like a there's something different going

724
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,480
Speaker 2: on in your body and your mind. When you know

725
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 2: that that's what you're working towards, that I think shines

726
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:37,919
Speaker 2: a totally different light on everything you do throughout the day.

727
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 5: So all three of us are parents, right, and so

728
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 5: you know we we hold that responsibility as a parent

729
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 5: deer and you know, try to embody and teach and

730
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 5: it's not the same thing as being a parent, but

731
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 5: I'm just you know, using that as a metaphor, that

732
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:01,920
Speaker 5: is part of it. I mean, I do feel like

733
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 5: with the wave of a wand especially you Mark, I

734
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:06,399
Speaker 5: mean you guys have a megaphone in terms of how

735
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 5: to people listen and are influenced by your brand, it's

736
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 5: the same, it's the same thing. It's just use that

737
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 5: power for good and get that army moving in the

738
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 5: right direction. And when you see it happen, and it's

739
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 5: tangible and you see see action happen, or you see

740
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 5: regulation or legislation be shot down. Man, how how good

741
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:37,960
Speaker 5: does that feel? And it's an endless bucket of responsibility

742
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 5: because there's always going to be those challenges and unfortunately

743
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 5: they become more complicated as we go forward, just with

744
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,960
Speaker 5: the way the world is. And maybe it wasn't like that,

745
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,399
Speaker 5: and you know our parents' day, they felt like things

746
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 5: were complicated then. But I mean all of the layers

747
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 5: of complexity with conservation man and wildlife management and habitat

748
00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 5: and threats to those things, threats through policy and threats

749
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 5: through actual environmental threats. It is intellectually stimulating. I mean,

750
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 5: I do feel satisfied from that side of it too.

751
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 5: You know I didn't mention that earlier, but you're just

752
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,280
Speaker 5: saying that just the challenge, the puzzle that it creates

753
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 5: is a fun puzzle to tackle and you feel good about.

754
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 2: It, yeah, one hundred percent. But there It's not all

755
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:31,560
Speaker 2: rainbows and butterflies all the time, though, is it?

756
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 3: Like?

757
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 2: There's there are some inevitable, less sexy parts of this

758
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 2: line of work, and it all varies depending on the

759
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 2: specific role you have, of course, but I would assume

760
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,279
Speaker 2: that if someone comes to you and is asking you, like,

761
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 2: how do I get into this stuff? I'm sure you're

762
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:51,800
Speaker 2: going to tell them all the things that we just discussed,

763
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 2: But then maybe there's gonna be some words of caution too.

764
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: What might some of those things be? Uh, Matt, if

765
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:03,479
Speaker 2: you were giving some thoughts to that eager beaver wanting

766
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 2: to get into this world.

767
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 5: Well, that's a that's a slippery slope, right, and let

768
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 5: me try to think about how.

769
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 4: You know, there's the positives far far outweigh the negatives.

770
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,720
Speaker 5: But it isn't all uh standing on a stage giving

771
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 5: a plenary or standing in the weeds and pulling you know,

772
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,920
Speaker 5: you know, pulling a bunch of people behind you to

773
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 5: cut trees or spray things. You know, a lot of

774
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:36,120
Speaker 5: a lot of the work that we do is administrative.

775
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,919
Speaker 5: I mean that's you have to enjoy that and also

776
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 5: be proficient at it. A lot of it is not

777
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 5: as fast as it seems that your phone tells you

778
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 5: that it happens.

779
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm.

780
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 5: Working on projects that are three years deep that have

781
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,239
Speaker 5: not really moved that much, but I'm still pushing on it.

782
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 5: And you know, from the viewers stand point. If you're

783
00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 5: on social media and you're watching the results of something

784
00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:07,080
Speaker 5: or a call to action, and you see the next

785
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,560
Speaker 5: one the fifteen seconds later and the next one fifteen

786
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 5: seconds later, it feels.

787
00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:12,720
Speaker 4: Like it's it is.

788
00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:17,960
Speaker 5: All in that kind of name of all good. But

789
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 5: sometimes you have to have persistence and dedication and rely

790
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 5: on your colleagues. So those are things that come to

791
00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:34,120
Speaker 5: my mind. Is that the amount of administrative work. I mean,

792
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 5: I think this is going to be true. There's all

793
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:38,239
Speaker 5: these memes out there about if you become a biologist

794
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 5: or a conservationist, and what your mom thinks and what

795
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 5: your friends think.

796
00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 4: You know, when I was in school in college, I

797
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,080
Speaker 4: had a bunch of roommates.

798
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 5: I went to UMass Chris, and a bunch of my

799
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 5: buddies would tease me because none of them were in wildlife,

800
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 5: and so they'd say, you know, how a.

801
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 4: Deer counting one oh one today?

802
00:45:57,600 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 5: When I get back to our environment, I'd be like,

803
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,239
Speaker 5: that is you know, that is not exactly what what

804
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:04,279
Speaker 5: we do.

805
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,480
Speaker 2: It's it's a dropping count, guys, I'm counting deer droppings.

806
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 6: Yeah.

807
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:14,360
Speaker 5: Yeah, that was my master's degree. So you know, the

808
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 5: amount of an administrative work to to get these programs

809
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:19,840
Speaker 5: to occur.

810
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,719
Speaker 4: There is a lot of like non sexy side of it.

811
00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, Chris, uh, your stuff's nothing but glamour, right, oh yeah.

812
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 6: All the time, you know, big wrapped truck and all

813
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,799
Speaker 6: that kind of stuff. Far from far from far from

814
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 6: the reality, you know. For one of my as, I've

815
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 6: transitioned from a chapter coordinator to a policy manager and

816
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 6: I am more intimately involved with some of the legislative

817
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 6: and regulatory battles around around the country.

818
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,360
Speaker 3: They're not all battles, I suld. I should I should

819
00:46:58,400 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 3: mention there's a lot of.

820
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,160
Speaker 6: Great people doing some good policy work out there that

821
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 6: you know that that can be solved through you know,

822
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 6: pretty light bipartisan lifting. But there's a lot of stuff

823
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 6: that isn't And a lot of stuff these days are

824
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 6: extremely polarized and contentious, and when you're in some of

825
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 6: these battles or and you know, strategizing talking to lawmakers,

826
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 6: you tend to get you sometimes get take take some

827
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 6: flack and and that can be you know, that is

828
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,319
Speaker 6: something that can be I haven't. I'm getting better at

829
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 6: letting a lot of that stuff slide off. Like when

830
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 6: when when a leader of an animal rights organization calls

831
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 6: me an extremist or a liar. I mean, I can

832
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,480
Speaker 6: let that slide. I can let that slide. But you

833
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:57,840
Speaker 6: know it is uh, you know, being around and being

834
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 6: in some of some of these uh negative environments. Can

835
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,120
Speaker 6: you know, that's not necessarily a fun part. It's not

836
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 6: like working with our chapters executing a conservation project or

837
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 6: stewardship project. You know, they take those types of things

838
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 6: take more of a toll, and you of course, like

839
00:48:15,560 --> 00:48:19,000
Speaker 6: Matt said, there's definitely the administrative stuff as well that

840
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 6: we have to do. But but yeah, so there's there's

841
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:28,000
Speaker 6: definitely that aspect and and you know the other the

842
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 6: other thing. Even though we're working with especially Matt and

843
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 6: I are, like working with state agencies, very often we

844
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:38,800
Speaker 6: come in contact with a lot of people who work

845
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 6: for these agencies that even though they're they're in the wildlife,

846
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 6: fish and Wildlife agency, they might not have a really

847
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 6: strong connection to hunting or fishing at all, and they've

848
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 6: had very little contact with the stakeholders, and not all

849
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 6: that contact might have been positive. You know, they they're

850
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 6: fielding complaints there's not enough deer or you know, you know,

851
00:49:01,160 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 6: why didn't you do a cut in this field like

852
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 6: you've done in the last for the last however many years.

853
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 6: So I think oftentimes we have to spend a lot

854
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 6: of time and energy at uh at building bridges and

855
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 6: building relationships. Not that that's a bad thing, it's a

856
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:23,640
Speaker 6: great thing. But you know, sometimes we're unpacking the or

857
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,319
Speaker 6: dealing with problems that we're kind of left left for us,

858
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 6: and you know that that takes time, and it takes

859
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 6: you know, building that relationship, building trust. So yeah, we're

860
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 6: that's that's just you know, comes with the job.

861
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 5: I suppose I'll elaborate on that too. And Chris said

862
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,880
Speaker 5: something that kind of peaked something in the back of

863
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:49,160
Speaker 5: my mind. As you know, we are member based organizations

864
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 5: from the NGO side, and we have volunteers, and we

865
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,919
Speaker 5: talked about all the positive and that again far far

866
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 5: far out weighs of the negatives. But when working with

867
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:04,240
Speaker 5: people and communities, you almost need a second degree in psychology,

868
00:50:04,440 --> 00:50:07,640
Speaker 5: you know, to work with volunteers and figure out, you know,

869
00:50:07,719 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 5: where there are always going to be differences. People's motivation

870
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 5: to volunteer are different, their purpose is different. Some people

871
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:19,000
Speaker 5: might want to work more with youth versus you know,

872
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 5: bringing out non traditional audiences to learn to hunt or

873
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:28,239
Speaker 5: the habitat you know, or stewardship or habitat recommendations might

874
00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 5: might be contradictory from one person's pursuit to another, between

875
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 5: organizations or even within an organization. And so when you're

876
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 5: working with volunteers, and I did this for several years

877
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 5: in the beginning when I was one of our regional

878
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 5: directors working with the chapters or branches, that that being

879
00:50:49,320 --> 00:50:53,120
Speaker 5: a good you know, being a people person and reading

880
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:59,120
Speaker 5: people and being able to navigate those discussions is part

881
00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 5: of the job. You know, just like having any good

882
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,239
Speaker 5: relationship with friends or kids or a spouse, you know

883
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 5: you're going to run bumps into the road. And when

884
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 5: you have those bumps, you got to figure out how

885
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 5: to navigate around them. And they happen pretty often with

886
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 5: when you work with people. And that may be a

887
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,160
Speaker 5: legislator versus one of our local volunteer groups, and maybe

888
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:22,880
Speaker 5: two volunteers in the same chapter or a branch. And

889
00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:26,160
Speaker 5: so that's not something that you're really taught when you're

890
00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 5: going to school for conservation or wildlife for forestry, is

891
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:35,720
Speaker 5: how to navigate those personal grievances or those personal issues

892
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 5: and being able to almost be a therapist or a

893
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,719
Speaker 5: mediator between two different people that happens, and I say

894
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 5: it kind of jokingly, but I'm serious. Is just being

895
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 5: able to get people to sit down and talk about what,

896
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 5: you know, why they're having a disagreement. And another thing

897
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 5: that I think schools are doing a much better job

898
00:51:53,640 --> 00:51:58,680
Speaker 5: now is being a good communicator. Chris just said, you know,

899
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,359
Speaker 5: being able to I've had those same instances where you're

900
00:52:02,360 --> 00:52:06,080
Speaker 5: put on the spot and you have to you have

901
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:10,800
Speaker 5: to explain yourself in a not in a heated way

902
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 5: and talk about the facts or even write about or

903
00:52:14,719 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 5: be on camera talking about those things that happens. Because

904
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:24,040
Speaker 5: of NGO's being that conduitive information, you're always going to

905
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 5: be talking to an audience in written or video form,

906
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,000
Speaker 5: audio form, in front of a live audience, or however

907
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:36,640
Speaker 5: be And that communication side is also that's not for everybody.

908
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,920
Speaker 5: And I'll tell you there are far more people that

909
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 5: are not good at that than that are good at that.

910
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 5: And that's another not a negative, but a consideration. If

911
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 5: you're going to get into this career, you have to

912
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 5: be a you know, a mediator therapist, And you also

913
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 5: have to be really good and think on your feet.

914
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,360
Speaker 5: And then when you do communicate, you have to push

915
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 5: down any personal feelings you're having to a degree. It's

916
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 5: always good to pull those in in a positive way,

917
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 5: but then in a very even tone, communicate the facts

918
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:15,839
Speaker 5: and talk about you know, why it's important. And I

919
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 5: do like to show passion. I'm using my hands here

920
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 5: if you aren't watching me, you know, being Italian, I

921
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 5: use my hands a lot. But you know, I like

922
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 5: to show passion and when I'm talking about and it's

923
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:29,840
Speaker 5: important for the people to connect with you. But you

924
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:31,520
Speaker 5: also don't want to get to the point where you're

925
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:36,840
Speaker 5: putting other people down and it's having a negative impact

926
00:53:36,880 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 5: on what you're trying to accomplish in the first place.

927
00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's there's There are so many considerations when

928
00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:50,799
Speaker 2: it comes to getting into this line of work or

929
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: trying to incorporate this as part of your job or

930
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 2: whatever it might be. And I think you make a

931
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:01,760
Speaker 2: great point in emphasizing that despite all of these extra considerations,

932
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 2: despite the parts that are not glamorous, despite you know,

933
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:07,400
Speaker 2: I think it's almost a rule that you're going to

934
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:11,000
Speaker 2: make less money if you choose to go to the conservation

935
00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 2: route than if you choose to go some other commercial

936
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 2: route in many ways or in many different instances, at

937
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,080
Speaker 2: least you know, it just seems like the positive still

938
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:24,000
Speaker 2: far away, because at least from where I'm sitting in

939
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 2: my experience, the benefits of feeling like you have a

940
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,480
Speaker 2: real purpose and that you're making an impact and that

941
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 2: you're making a positive difference that gives me so much

942
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,520
Speaker 2: more satisfaction than having enough money to buy a nicer

943
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 2: car or something like that. I know everybody's situation is different,

944
00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 2: everyone has different burdens, it's different for everybody, but I

945
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,200
Speaker 2: feel like that's been a very consistent thing I've heard

946
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 2: across the board from almost anyone who's chosen to take

947
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:55,680
Speaker 2: this kind of leap. So that leads us to like

948
00:54:55,719 --> 00:54:58,200
Speaker 2: the inevitable final piece on this side of things, which

949
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,480
Speaker 2: is just like, Okay, now it sounds like this is

950
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 2: something that I want to do. I've been thinking I've

951
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:04,879
Speaker 2: wanted to do it for a long time.

952
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:05,040
Speaker 3: Now.

953
00:55:05,040 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 2: I've heard these two inspiring stories. I've heard the good

954
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:10,480
Speaker 2: and the bad. Yes, sign me up. Where's this really

955
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 2: easy job board that lists every single conservation job that

956
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:15,600
Speaker 2: I can just quickly sign up and get this gig.

957
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:17,759
Speaker 3: How do you do that? Right?

958
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:23,279
Speaker 2: It's not that easy? What Chris, what would you tell

959
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 2: someone who's like, Okay, I want to find a job

960
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:27,279
Speaker 2: in this kind of world. I want to make a

961
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 2: positive difference. I love the natural world. I love hunting

962
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 2: or fishing or rivers and forests and prairies, and I

963
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:37,799
Speaker 2: want to do something like that. How do you how

964
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 2: do you get that job?

965
00:55:38,719 --> 00:55:39,319
Speaker 7: Chris?

966
00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 3: It? Yeah, it's a it's a question.

967
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:47,920
Speaker 6: A lot of people are asking and and and I

968
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 6: should mention that in it in the space, partically in

969
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:56,520
Speaker 6: the agency space, they are looking for people. They want people,

970
00:55:56,640 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 6: and they want to they want people to to stay put.

971
00:56:00,920 --> 00:56:01,919
Speaker 3: For a period of time.

972
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 6: I had a meeting yesterday with the directors all the

973
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 6: fishing game agency directors yesterday and one of the tough

974
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:13,440
Speaker 6: conversations that we were having was about how do we

975
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:18,640
Speaker 6: retain wildlife professionals beyond five years. So they're they're looking

976
00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 6: and they're looking for good people. So I think you

977
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,000
Speaker 6: know to start your search if this is something that

978
00:56:26,040 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 6: you're interested in, I think you have to connect with

979
00:56:29,800 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 6: the professional the professional groups, the professional uh wildlife professionals

980
00:56:37,120 --> 00:56:41,719
Speaker 6: or an organ or the Association of Fisional Wildlife Agencies.

981
00:56:41,760 --> 00:56:47,239
Speaker 6: If you're interested in the nonprofit world, then connecting with

982
00:56:49,040 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 6: you know, the nonprofits, becoming a member, volunteering, seeing if

983
00:56:53,239 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 6: like the the your values are reflected in the organization,

984
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 6: picking up skills. I think those are all important steps

985
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 6: in the process. I mean, there are, of course recruiting agencies,

986
00:57:07,480 --> 00:57:12,360
Speaker 6: and all of our organizations are regularly posting positions that

987
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:17,080
Speaker 6: are available. But it goes back to something I mentioned earlier.

988
00:57:17,120 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 6: I think you have to be honest with you know

989
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 6: what you want out of a career, the balance that

990
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 6: you're looking for, and you also have to be honest

991
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 6: about your professional skills and abilities and figuring out ways

992
00:57:33,520 --> 00:57:38,000
Speaker 6: to improve areas of weakness and make yourself an attractive

993
00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:43,560
Speaker 6: candidate for one of these positions. That said, so much

994
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:46,800
Speaker 6: of it, of this space here that we're in is

995
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,320
Speaker 6: built on relationships. So the more relationships that you can

996
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:54,440
Speaker 6: build and nurture, the better off you're going to be.

997
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:59,600
Speaker 6: You have an opportunity to share who you are and

998
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:03,680
Speaker 6: what you're about in all of those personal contacts and relationships,

999
00:58:03,720 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 6: and oftentimes that's one of the most important and the

1000
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:14,320
Speaker 6: most overlooked parts of this whole thing, and yeah, yeah,

1001
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 6: what about you, Matt.

1002
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 5: Chris is right, there are opportunities now. And not to

1003
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:22,360
Speaker 5: sound like the old man walking uphill both ways or whatever,

1004
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 5: but there are lots of opportunities now because people are

1005
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 5: retiring and that generation, the baby boomer generation that we're

1006
00:58:28,960 --> 00:58:32,360
Speaker 5: losing hunters, we're losing not to resource professionals, because they're

1007
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,560
Speaker 5: they're making space within all of the buckets that we

1008
00:58:35,680 --> 00:58:36,360
Speaker 5: mentioned before.

1009
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:40,360
Speaker 4: And when I was getting out.

1010
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:42,440
Speaker 5: Of school, it was harder to find a job. Not

1011
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 5: that it's easy now, but there just was no space.

1012
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:50,880
Speaker 5: And so if you were interested, I think there is opportunity.

1013
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 3: Mark.

1014
00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,680
Speaker 5: There actually is a couple of conservation job boards that

1015
00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 5: people can go look at Texas A and N. If

1016
00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 5: you just type in Texas A and M job board,

1017
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 5: I think it's conservation job board is another one. I

1018
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:08,760
Speaker 5: can provide the links to you if you want to

1019
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,480
Speaker 5: share with people, but there are a couple like unique

1020
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 5: places that you can go look. I'll also say Chris

1021
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 5: is right in surrounding yourself and building relationships, but I'll

1022
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,000
Speaker 5: kind of take a step back from that. You know,

1023
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 5: different jobs have different requirements. Some might involve a degree

1024
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:31,720
Speaker 5: that you don't have, and so that's a path that

1025
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 5: you want to go down. You have to start looking

1026
00:59:34,760 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 5: at schools and try to get a degree in it.

1027
00:59:36,560 --> 00:59:38,480
Speaker 5: And there's a lot of online programs you can try

1028
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:41,360
Speaker 5: to get those degrees. Some are going to and a

1029
00:59:41,400 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 5: lot will require a master's degree, not only a bachelor's

1030
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 5: but a master's and that's more on you know, it

1031
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 5: depends on what level work. If you're going to spend

1032
00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:57,320
Speaker 5: your career. If you do this doing more out outdoor

1033
00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:01,600
Speaker 5: technician type work like the doer, that wouldn't require an

1034
01:00:01,640 --> 01:00:03,960
Speaker 5: advanced degree. If you want to be in more of

1035
01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:08,520
Speaker 5: an administrative role, you wouldn't need something like that. But

1036
01:00:08,640 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 5: I would say, figure out what direction you want to go,

1037
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:14,040
Speaker 5: and you can do a couple things.

1038
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 4: To do that.

1039
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:20,240
Speaker 5: Great advice is to just surround yourself, get involved, join organizations.

1040
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 5: Join if there's you know, opportunities, if you want to

1041
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:29,840
Speaker 5: explore something with your local state agency to go volunteer,

1042
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:33,840
Speaker 5: go knock on the door, call people there. I was

1043
01:00:33,920 --> 01:00:36,680
Speaker 5: fortunate that I knew somebody that was affiliate with an

1044
01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 5: agencycy early on, I was able to ask those questions.

1045
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,120
Speaker 5: But there's no reason why you couldn't go to your

1046
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:46,080
Speaker 5: local agency and make an appointment and talk to somebody

1047
01:00:46,080 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 5: there and express those things. And I would say internships

1048
01:00:52,720 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 5: are also another great opportunity because there will be these

1049
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 5: kind of trial by a you know, opportunities in NGO world,

1050
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 5: but also doing things for all of the other private

1051
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 5: sector federal agency. You can go do like an intern

1052
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,439
Speaker 5: or volunteer day and talk to people, so you don't

1053
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 5: have to dive one hundred percent in. You can kind

1054
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 5: of try different things out before you do it. But

1055
01:01:24,120 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 5: my kind of reflecting back to my mention about being persistent,

1056
01:01:30,960 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 5: I mentioned I got a master's degree, but it didn't

1057
01:01:34,880 --> 01:01:36,560
Speaker 5: just fall in my lap. And this is one thing

1058
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 5: that a piece of advice that I have told anybody

1059
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,200
Speaker 5: that's a young person that's looking to go into a

1060
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:45,760
Speaker 5: career is if they're going to get a master's is

1061
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 5: to try to surround themselves with the type of people

1062
01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 5: that they're interested in doing the degree. And so for me,

1063
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 5: it was deer and so I looked up all the

1064
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 5: different when I was in high school or college. When

1065
01:01:57,720 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 5: I was in college, I looked up all the different

1066
01:02:00,680 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 5: places that good dear research was being produced and so

1067
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 5: a lot of that was in scientific literature. I mean,

1068
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 5: it's only like a couple couple names that usually come

1069
01:02:11,520 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 5: out with that type of thing. So I familiarized myself

1070
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:18,240
Speaker 5: with the universities and the professors that were churning out

1071
01:02:18,280 --> 01:02:21,600
Speaker 5: good deer research, and I started making phone calls and said,

1072
01:02:21,640 --> 01:02:26,439
Speaker 5: I'm an undergraduate, I'm interested in going to school for deer,

1073
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:28,960
Speaker 5: you know, in a couple of years for a master's degree.

1074
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 5: Can I come visit you? And I got in my

1075
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 5: pickup truck or car back then, and I would go

1076
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:36,200
Speaker 5: visit and you know, put myself in front of those

1077
01:02:36,280 --> 01:02:40,240
Speaker 5: folks and applied to schools when there was the opportunity.

1078
01:02:40,600 --> 01:02:44,000
Speaker 5: But the position I ended up getting was because of

1079
01:02:44,040 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 5: exactly that I was just a known commodity. And I

1080
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:54,960
Speaker 5: think that would that type of effort would would be

1081
01:02:55,000 --> 01:02:57,320
Speaker 5: replicated in any of the buckets I mentioned. So if

1082
01:02:57,360 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 5: you really want to work for a policy group, or

1083
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:03,760
Speaker 5: if you really want to work for a private consultant

1084
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 5: that is nearby that does wildlife and forestry work, you know,

1085
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 5: or if you want to do something with a state agency,

1086
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 5: be known, don't just hope go do it, Like make

1087
01:03:15,640 --> 01:03:18,880
Speaker 5: those phone calls, make you know, send emails, be persistent,

1088
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 5: be polite, and just be somebody that you portray yourself

1089
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:28,080
Speaker 5: as professional, respectful, and you're a go getter. I mean,

1090
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:30,160
Speaker 5: this is like anything in life. We're not even talking

1091
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 5: about conservation, but just that's what I did and the

1092
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:38,000
Speaker 5: position that I ended up getting, the graduate position studying

1093
01:03:38,000 --> 01:03:41,080
Speaker 5: deer poop mark I fell in my lap.

1094
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 4: Actually we did, no.

1095
01:03:44,000 --> 01:03:48,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, my project had to do with a winter feeding

1096
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:50,120
Speaker 5: up in the north. You know, people dump out corn

1097
01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:52,360
Speaker 5: in the winter and it's not good for deer, but

1098
01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:55,080
Speaker 5: poop had something to do with it. But that ended

1099
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:58,840
Speaker 5: up because I was known. The professor knew I was looking,

1100
01:03:58,960 --> 01:04:01,120
Speaker 5: and he said, hey, I got a project coming up

1101
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,479
Speaker 5: and would you be interested. And that was awesome because

1102
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:07,120
Speaker 5: I ended up living and working at a research facility

1103
01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:11,480
Speaker 5: that we had captive gear or research dear that we

1104
01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 5: were doing metabolic research. But every summer I got to

1105
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 5: work with a bunch of undergraduates and we had thirty

1106
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 5: or forty fonds that we were bottle raising. And I

1107
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 5: mean that that was an awesome experience that came with it.

1108
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 5: But my advice to anybody listening this is do your research,

1109
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 5: dip your toes in and then once you kind of

1110
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:37,080
Speaker 5: figure out the path, if you're hungry, just jump in

1111
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 5: and you'll make it happen.

1112
01:04:40,960 --> 01:04:41,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1113
01:04:41,560 --> 01:04:44,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, I just quickly added, and this is like I'll

1114
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 6: pre physic by saying, this is the case across like

1115
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,600
Speaker 6: all industries, all spaces.

1116
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 3: But you know, one of the things that.

1117
01:04:54,880 --> 01:04:57,560
Speaker 6: Is a reality is when you are on the inside,

1118
01:04:57,680 --> 01:05:00,960
Speaker 6: things are different than what you might have men. That's

1119
01:05:00,960 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 6: the case for the in the NGOs, it's the case

1120
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 6: in the industry. And so yeah, like there is that reality.

1121
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:09,600
Speaker 3: And for some.

1122
01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:12,280
Speaker 6: People that's a little bit shocking when they they've come in,

1123
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:16,160
Speaker 6: they've been you know, involved, and when they sort of

1124
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:19,520
Speaker 6: get a different perspective of things, they're a little bit

1125
01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:21,960
Speaker 6: taken aback. But like I said that, that's normal in

1126
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 6: any space. And then the only other kind of like

1127
01:05:26,120 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 6: you know, like our job, Matt and I, our job

1128
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:29,120
Speaker 6: is not.

1129
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 3: To go deer hunting.

1130
01:05:30,160 --> 01:05:33,400
Speaker 6: Like do we get opportunities to do that that you

1131
01:05:33,440 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 6: know that we might not have, but that I might

1132
01:05:36,080 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 6: not have had as a teacher. Certainly, definitely, I'm not

1133
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:42,600
Speaker 6: going to fully admit that. But I think the other

1134
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:45,560
Speaker 6: important thing to just acknowledge, and this goes back to

1135
01:05:45,600 --> 01:05:49,320
Speaker 6: that advice about knowing your what you're interested in, your

1136
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:53,600
Speaker 6: values and and everything is if if hunting or fishing

1137
01:05:53,720 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 6: is a real passion, like there, there is reason to

1138
01:05:58,000 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 6: sort of be aware and cautious about aligning that so

1139
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:06,880
Speaker 6: close to your job and and Mark like you've you've

1140
01:06:06,960 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 6: kind of talked a little bit about this over the

1141
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:11,800
Speaker 6: years and have been really honest about it, which I've

1142
01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 6: really appreciated that, and I've been able to relate to

1143
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:18,000
Speaker 6: that at times where you know, this passion of yours

1144
01:06:18,080 --> 01:06:20,880
Speaker 6: is so close to what you're doing for work, and

1145
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 6: you've put this extra like this pressure on you that

1146
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:25,960
Speaker 6: doesn't necessarily need to be there, and that cuts in

1147
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,200
Speaker 6: a little bit on the passion. You have to set boundaries,

1148
01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:34,400
Speaker 6: you have to be aware of that, and because it's

1149
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 6: going to impact you, it's going to impact your family,

1150
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 6: it's can impact your ability to have an impact in

1151
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 6: the space that you want to to have.

1152
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:53,880
Speaker 5: Excellent, very good fact excellent West Chris, Yes, yeah, very true.

1153
01:06:56,960 --> 01:07:00,640
Speaker 2: I'll jump in with one last kind of pile on

1154
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 2: note and kind of validate something you said there in

1155
01:07:06,080 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 2: regards to you know, the the do everything be everywhere approach.

1156
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 2: Once you figure out your lane. That applies not just

1157
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 2: to NGOs or agency work or being a practitioner on

1158
01:07:19,640 --> 01:07:22,360
Speaker 2: the ground. It also applies to like the conservation communicator

1159
01:07:22,520 --> 01:07:24,680
Speaker 2: role as well. So I have lots of people who

1160
01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:26,760
Speaker 2: are asking me how do I make media? Like how

1161
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 2: do I do a podcast? How do I become a writer?

1162
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:30,240
Speaker 2: How do I become a TV show host? How do

1163
01:07:30,280 --> 01:07:32,400
Speaker 2: I do this thing or that thing? And all of

1164
01:07:32,440 --> 01:07:36,280
Speaker 2: those things plus everything. Both of you described the same

1165
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:39,520
Speaker 2: approach does work, which is you know you just said,

1166
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:41,360
Speaker 2: figure out what your thing is. Figure out what your

1167
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 2: angle is or what your lane is, or what your

1168
01:07:43,360 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 2: unique skill set is. So like, are you do you

1169
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:48,000
Speaker 2: have that science background and you can be someone who

1170
01:07:48,000 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 2: can work in resource management, or are you a great

1171
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,000
Speaker 2: orator or are you a great writer or are you

1172
01:07:53,080 --> 01:07:55,760
Speaker 2: passionate about photography? Find out whatever your thing is that

1173
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 2: you can bring to the world, and then do it.

1174
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:01,320
Speaker 2: I think that that's a big thing. Some people think

1175
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:03,480
Speaker 2: they need to wait until they get permission to do

1176
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:06,440
Speaker 2: the thing, or to wait until someone validates them and

1177
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:08,320
Speaker 2: says like, hey, you now work in this field, Now

1178
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 2: you can do your thing, or they're waiting for someone

1179
01:08:11,000 --> 01:08:14,560
Speaker 2: to bring it to them. You kind of alluded to that, Matt, like,

1180
01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:17,040
Speaker 2: no one's going to knock on your door and ask

1181
01:08:17,120 --> 01:08:19,360
Speaker 2: you to do this stuff. You have to put it

1182
01:08:19,400 --> 01:08:22,559
Speaker 2: out into the world. So my biggest advice is, once

1183
01:08:22,600 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 2: you decide on what your thing is that you can

1184
01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,840
Speaker 2: bring to the world, do it. Do it, make it,

1185
01:08:28,240 --> 01:08:30,960
Speaker 2: create it, start doing the work. So if you want

1186
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,440
Speaker 2: to be a habitat manager, go out there and volunteer

1187
01:08:33,520 --> 01:08:36,160
Speaker 2: do projects. Go and volunteer on the back forty or

1188
01:08:36,200 --> 01:08:37,679
Speaker 2: go out there and be a part of these different

1189
01:08:37,720 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 2: events and do the work and showcase, hey, I've done

1190
01:08:39,960 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 2: this stuff. I'm doing it all the time, I'm getting

1191
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:44,360
Speaker 2: better at it. Or if you want to be a

1192
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:48,719
Speaker 2: podcaster or you want to be a writer, don't wait

1193
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 2: for Field and Stream to tell you to start writing

1194
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,599
Speaker 2: for them. Just start writing all the time, getting better

1195
01:08:53,640 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 2: at the craft, doing the thing, and put it out

1196
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 2: into the world. Whatever the thing is you end up doing,

1197
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:01,559
Speaker 2: make sure the world knows about it, share it with

1198
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:03,920
Speaker 2: the world, put it out there as much as you

1199
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:06,160
Speaker 2: possibly can. Because that leads to the final thing which

1200
01:09:06,160 --> 01:09:08,439
Speaker 2: you both alluded to, which is, like, so much of

1201
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 2: this is network based. It's based on who you know

1202
01:09:11,160 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 2: who knows of you, who's aware of your work, who's

1203
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,320
Speaker 2: aware of your skill set, who's aware of your talent

1204
01:09:16,920 --> 01:09:19,479
Speaker 2: or of the value you bring to the table. And

1205
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:23,040
Speaker 2: so you just need to make and do and share

1206
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:25,280
Speaker 2: and work with other people. And if you do that

1207
01:09:26,600 --> 01:09:30,439
Speaker 2: over and over and over again with this set of

1208
01:09:30,520 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 2: values and motivation that we've been talking about, with that

1209
01:09:33,320 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 2: fuel burning and making your fire go and go and go,

1210
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:40,200
Speaker 2: you can make this work. You can do this stuff.

1211
01:09:41,320 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 2: But you know it's it's it's not it's not easy.

1212
01:09:45,560 --> 01:09:49,000
Speaker 2: It's easier said than done. But I think we all

1213
01:09:49,040 --> 01:09:50,439
Speaker 2: agree it's it's well worth it, right.

1214
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:54,800
Speaker 5: It's easy if it's a genuine burn, if that if

1215
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 5: that fuel is genuine, if you're doing it for self

1216
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:02,200
Speaker 5: validation or val, not self held validation from the outside

1217
01:10:02,840 --> 01:10:06,920
Speaker 5: to get approval, which is you know, just being a parent,

1218
01:10:07,000 --> 01:10:09,640
Speaker 5: just watching all the stuff out there and trying to

1219
01:10:09,640 --> 01:10:12,160
Speaker 5: figure out, you know, self esteem and all the things

1220
01:10:12,160 --> 01:10:15,800
Speaker 5: that we all we all have doubts about ourselves. Don't

1221
01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:19,680
Speaker 5: do it for for that. Do it because you have

1222
01:10:19,760 --> 01:10:23,840
Speaker 5: a genuine feel of wanting to do it, and do

1223
01:10:23,920 --> 01:10:27,439
Speaker 5: it for yourself honestly, as much as it is about

1224
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 5: the difference that you make. Do it because you want

1225
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:34,160
Speaker 5: to be proud of yourself to do that, to make

1226
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:34,759
Speaker 5: a difference.

1227
01:10:36,439 --> 01:10:38,080
Speaker 2: Sleep a lot better at night when you know you

1228
01:10:38,120 --> 01:10:42,600
Speaker 2: did something. Yes, I always anyone who's listened to me

1229
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:44,360
Speaker 2: for any period of time has heard me say this,

1230
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:46,600
Speaker 2: and I'll say it to the day I die. But

1231
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 2: you know this line from Avon Shinar, the greatest cure

1232
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:53,720
Speaker 2: for depression is action. And that's like, that's become like

1233
01:10:53,720 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 2: the mantra for my life. Like every time I see

1234
01:10:56,120 --> 01:11:00,280
Speaker 2: some new headline about this river getting polluted and this

1235
01:11:00,320 --> 01:11:03,960
Speaker 2: species going into decline and this public land that's being threatened.

1236
01:11:04,000 --> 01:11:05,640
Speaker 2: You hear all this stuff, and it's so easy to

1237
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:07,280
Speaker 2: get down in the dumps about it, and it's so

1238
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 2: easy to you know, feel that like cloud hanging over you, like, jeez,

1239
01:11:12,479 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 2: what is the world going to be like when my

1240
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 2: kids grow up? Anytime I start feeling that way, you know,

1241
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:20,800
Speaker 2: I just think, Okay, well, now what what then, Like,

1242
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:23,160
Speaker 2: what's the step I can take? What's the action I

1243
01:11:23,160 --> 01:11:26,040
Speaker 2: can take? And that immediately makes you feel better in

1244
01:11:26,080 --> 01:11:29,680
Speaker 2: the short term and the long term. And that's I

1245
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:32,080
Speaker 2: think so much of what this conversation. I think revolves

1246
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 2: around it. I think there's a lot of people listening, reading, watching,

1247
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 2: seeing the world around them, who care about wildlife, who

1248
01:11:40,360 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 2: care about wild places, who love to hunt and fish,

1249
01:11:42,280 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 2: They love these things, and they're seeing they're seeing those

1250
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:50,759
Speaker 2: loves threatened, and they're thinking to themselves one of two things.

1251
01:11:50,800 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 2: Either hands in the air, it's all going to shit

1252
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:57,599
Speaker 2: and they're feeling really lousy about it, or they can say,

1253
01:11:58,160 --> 01:12:01,519
Speaker 2: all right, now what And I hope this conversation is

1254
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:05,479
Speaker 2: an answer to that question, at least to some degree,

1255
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:09,600
Speaker 2: which leads us, though, to a second part of the conversation,

1256
01:12:09,680 --> 01:12:11,439
Speaker 2: which we've gone way longer than I thought in the

1257
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:14,599
Speaker 2: first part. So apologies to both of you for keeping

1258
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,640
Speaker 2: you here longer than we originally discussed. But there's so

1259
01:12:17,760 --> 01:12:19,720
Speaker 2: much good stuff to cover there on the Hey, what

1260
01:12:19,760 --> 01:12:22,519
Speaker 2: if you want to work professionally for wildlife, But what

1261
01:12:22,560 --> 01:12:24,800
Speaker 2: if you want to work non professionally for wildlife. What

1262
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:28,040
Speaker 2: if there's someone listening who loves all this stuff, wants

1263
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:30,040
Speaker 2: to be able to make an impact, but the same

1264
01:12:30,080 --> 01:12:33,840
Speaker 2: time has a career that's already fulfilling, that's already checking

1265
01:12:33,840 --> 01:12:35,960
Speaker 2: all the boxes for them, and they're just looking for

1266
01:12:36,000 --> 01:12:37,560
Speaker 2: a way to do this kind of stuff in the

1267
01:12:37,960 --> 01:12:40,000
Speaker 2: other part of their life.

1268
01:12:43,479 --> 01:12:44,160
Speaker 4: We'll keep this a.

1269
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 2: Little bit more brief in the first half. What would

1270
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:48,000
Speaker 2: be like a handful of ways that you guys have

1271
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:51,800
Speaker 2: found to be the most impactful ways to do that

1272
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:55,160
Speaker 2: for someone listening that wants to start making a positive

1273
01:12:55,200 --> 01:12:59,600
Speaker 2: impact on fish, wildlife, public lands, conservation, whatever their specific

1274
01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:04,400
Speaker 2: passion is. Chris, what would be a couple suggestions you

1275
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:05,759
Speaker 2: might throw out there for folks.

1276
01:13:07,200 --> 01:13:12,160
Speaker 6: I think a great starting point for people is to

1277
01:13:12,680 --> 01:13:16,640
Speaker 6: simply learn to take the time to read so that

1278
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:23,599
Speaker 6: you can better understand why agencies or like what is

1279
01:13:23,640 --> 01:13:27,960
Speaker 6: the what's the logic behind conservation efforts? I think that

1280
01:13:28,120 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 6: is a great starting point. It's going to make the

1281
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:34,960
Speaker 6: time that you can go and actually do something, you know,

1282
01:13:35,000 --> 01:13:37,320
Speaker 6: whether it be volunteer some time or whatever, it's going

1283
01:13:37,400 --> 01:13:39,679
Speaker 6: to make it You're going to be able to see

1284
01:13:39,680 --> 01:13:43,160
Speaker 6: and understand better what you're doing and why you're doing it.

1285
01:13:43,160 --> 01:13:45,560
Speaker 6: It's going to make you a better conservation advocate in

1286
01:13:46,000 --> 01:13:48,800
Speaker 6: the long run. So that's it, Like you know, and

1287
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 6: it doesn't have to be like you don't have to

1288
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:53,599
Speaker 6: you don't have to go out and read every conservation book.

1289
01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:59,480
Speaker 3: It could be as simple as yeah, y, I was actually.

1290
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 6: Thinking of your your your recommendations from yesterday for for

1291
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:08,120
Speaker 6: Earth Day and and anyways. Uh so after you've read

1292
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:11,599
Speaker 6: that book and what you had, like if your state

1293
01:14:11,640 --> 01:14:15,400
Speaker 6: agency has a magazine, sometimes it's it's a separate thing,

1294
01:14:15,439 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 6: a some separate subscription. It's usually not much, but in

1295
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,680
Speaker 6: there they're going to profile the conservation projects, the initiatives

1296
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,160
Speaker 6: that they have underway. And it's obviously it's more in

1297
01:14:27,240 --> 01:14:30,720
Speaker 6: depth than a than an Instagram post or something, and

1298
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,880
Speaker 6: that way you can understand the efforts and the motivation

1299
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:37,679
Speaker 6: is behind. You know, your your state agency. That's starting

1300
01:14:37,680 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 6: point number one, and then number two. Just find opportunities,

1301
01:14:41,360 --> 01:14:44,960
Speaker 6: whether it's through uh nd A or b h A

1302
01:14:45,160 --> 01:14:48,879
Speaker 6: or whatever. UH attend a project or.

1303
01:14:50,439 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 3: You know every.

1304
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:56,080
Speaker 6: Land trust are doing projects, uh state or are some

1305
01:14:56,920 --> 01:15:00,400
Speaker 6: federal fish and wildlife refugees are doing stuff all the time.

1306
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 6: And I think those are just simple, great opportunities to

1307
01:15:05,240 --> 01:15:07,519
Speaker 6: to to go out there and make a difference in

1308
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 6: an organized way.

1309
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:09,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a local.

1310
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:15,639
Speaker 5: Property that is you know, publicly accessible, state, federal county,

1311
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 5: and there's likely some kind of friends of group, you know,

1312
01:15:20,080 --> 01:15:24,360
Speaker 5: friends of that group, friends of that property. Those those

1313
01:15:24,360 --> 01:15:27,479
Speaker 5: are good opportunities to kind of plug in locally. That

1314
01:15:27,600 --> 01:15:31,439
Speaker 5: was learned is a great baseline Chris, that was that

1315
01:15:31,479 --> 01:15:34,519
Speaker 5: was good advice. And I thought about this, Mark, you know,

1316
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:37,360
Speaker 5: when you send us a message before recording, is what

1317
01:15:37,400 --> 01:15:40,840
Speaker 5: would what would the baseline advice be? Is obviously a volunteer.

1318
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:44,200
Speaker 5: I mean, that's what a volunteer is. And uh, there

1319
01:15:44,240 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 5: are tons of ng os out there like us that

1320
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:52,519
Speaker 5: are geared toward you know, a specific niche so whatever

1321
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:54,920
Speaker 5: that would be. And so that kind of goes without saying.

1322
01:15:55,880 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 5: But I was thinking more deeply about that advice. Why

1323
01:16:00,439 --> 01:16:03,760
Speaker 5: would you want to do that? You know, as you know,

1324
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:06,040
Speaker 5: we're we're people, right, and we're we're kind of a

1325
01:16:06,080 --> 01:16:11,360
Speaker 5: community based species. Like we like being around others that

1326
01:16:11,479 --> 01:16:14,400
Speaker 5: are similar to us, related to us, that like the

1327
01:16:14,439 --> 01:16:17,360
Speaker 5: same things. And that's one of the great things about

1328
01:16:17,439 --> 01:16:22,640
Speaker 5: volunteerism is you're you're plugging yourself into a community and

1329
01:16:22,720 --> 01:16:25,840
Speaker 5: you will draw from that. You can kind of go

1330
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 5: in full bore and become, you know, a volunteer every

1331
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:34,600
Speaker 5: weekend or if you're you know, busy with work and

1332
01:16:34,680 --> 01:16:37,680
Speaker 5: family and other obligations, you can you can kind of

1333
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:40,200
Speaker 5: come and go. That's what's great about being a volunteer

1334
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:43,640
Speaker 5: is you give what you can. It could be financial.

1335
01:16:44,280 --> 01:16:47,679
Speaker 5: There's like the three t's right, time, treasure, and what's

1336
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:49,200
Speaker 5: the other one. Chris, I trying to remember what the

1337
01:16:49,240 --> 01:16:51,320
Speaker 5: other T is. But it's like the three ways to give.

1338
01:16:52,520 --> 01:16:56,080
Speaker 5: You could give financially, you give your time or talent.

1339
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:59,800
Speaker 5: You know, your talent is the third one. Uh, those

1340
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:02,840
Speaker 5: are those are like that. That's the three legs of

1341
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:06,680
Speaker 5: the stool of a volunteer. And everybody has something. You know,

1342
01:17:06,720 --> 01:17:09,040
Speaker 5: if you don't have the financial means to give a

1343
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:12,280
Speaker 5: couple of dollars or become a member, you know, most

1344
01:17:12,360 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 5: organizations twenty thirty forty dollars to be a member per year,

1345
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:20,200
Speaker 5: you certainly have a talent because everybody has something.

1346
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:20,439
Speaker 4: They can give.

1347
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:24,160
Speaker 5: Maybe you're a graphic artist for work full time and

1348
01:17:24,200 --> 01:17:26,559
Speaker 5: you can provide that, or maybe you take really good

1349
01:17:26,560 --> 01:17:31,639
Speaker 5: photos or you know, instead of being there for giving time.

1350
01:17:31,720 --> 01:17:35,479
Speaker 5: But those are the three categories that volunteers exist in.

1351
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:40,639
Speaker 5: And you can do it one hundred percent and go,

1352
01:17:40,840 --> 01:17:42,880
Speaker 5: you know, a million miles an hour and volunteer all

1353
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:44,280
Speaker 5: the time, or you can just do a little bit.

1354
01:17:44,320 --> 01:17:47,520
Speaker 5: But those, I would say, surrounding yourself in a community

1355
01:17:47,520 --> 01:17:50,080
Speaker 5: of like minded folks. So I'm a deer guy. You know,

1356
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 5: there's a deer behind me in the video. I like

1357
01:17:53,360 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 5: being part of the organization I work for, and I

1358
01:17:55,240 --> 01:17:58,320
Speaker 5: eventually applied for a job because I just loved it

1359
01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:03,280
Speaker 5: so much. I'm talking to people about deer all the time.

1360
01:18:03,680 --> 01:18:05,400
Speaker 5: My wife would think that I would get sick of it,

1361
01:18:05,439 --> 01:18:07,719
Speaker 5: but I don't. I just I love talking about deer

1362
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:11,720
Speaker 5: and dear research and deer hunting and dear you know,

1363
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:13,680
Speaker 5: all of the things around that.

1364
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:14,040
Speaker 4: That's me.

1365
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:16,559
Speaker 5: I mean, that's who I am. I've been like that

1366
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 5: since I was little. But if you're super passionate about

1367
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:25,720
Speaker 5: our public lands, that country Hunters and Anglers is the

1368
01:18:25,840 --> 01:18:28,600
Speaker 5: group for you. If you're a turkey hunter, there's the

1369
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:31,080
Speaker 5: National Wild Turkey Federation. So there's all these groups that

1370
01:18:31,160 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 5: are national and goos. But don't look past those local

1371
01:18:34,880 --> 01:18:38,160
Speaker 5: groups too. Chris hit the nail on the head. Because

1372
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:42,880
Speaker 5: you live in a community and there's some environmental issue,

1373
01:18:43,400 --> 01:18:46,640
Speaker 5: whether it's development happening too fast, or some piece of

1374
01:18:46,680 --> 01:18:52,759
Speaker 5: property that is being threatened by invasive species or something

1375
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:55,960
Speaker 5: that's going to be built on there whatever you feel

1376
01:18:55,960 --> 01:18:58,920
Speaker 5: like giving to find that group and plug yourself in.

1377
01:19:00,720 --> 01:19:03,599
Speaker 6: Yeah, and if you want to be a kind of

1378
01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:09,240
Speaker 6: like have a force multiplier approach to conservation volunteering, there's

1379
01:19:09,240 --> 01:19:10,840
Speaker 6: a couple of things you could do. You can take

1380
01:19:10,880 --> 01:19:16,200
Speaker 6: your kids with you and involve them and and sort

1381
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:19,800
Speaker 6: of nurture that aspect and you know that becomes part

1382
01:19:19,800 --> 01:19:22,760
Speaker 6: of what you do as a family and gets them

1383
01:19:22,760 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 6: outside and I think that's a great one. And then

1384
01:19:25,720 --> 01:19:27,479
Speaker 6: you know, going back to like the friends groups that

1385
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:32,160
Speaker 6: you mentioned, Uh, you know, we've we've we have at

1386
01:19:32,200 --> 01:19:35,719
Speaker 6: times some of the local chapters are have gotten together.

1387
01:19:36,280 --> 01:19:38,799
Speaker 6: Not a bha thing, but we'll go to a friends

1388
01:19:38,800 --> 01:19:41,400
Speaker 6: of a refuge event and just help out. We're not

1389
01:19:42,360 --> 01:19:44,840
Speaker 6: over it. We're not like making a big thing about

1390
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:48,120
Speaker 6: our presence. You know, maybe you wear a camo hat

1391
01:19:48,200 --> 01:19:51,280
Speaker 6: or a hat or whatever, and you know, time over time,

1392
01:19:51,280 --> 01:19:55,360
Speaker 6: people recognize these are a bunch of hunters coming to help,

1393
01:19:55,880 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 6: you know, do this, help this project, you know, remove

1394
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:03,960
Speaker 6: this evasive plant or whatever and it And why that

1395
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:07,720
Speaker 6: is a multiplier is because you're representing the community and

1396
01:20:08,000 --> 01:20:10,679
Speaker 6: you're showing up and doing things in areas that are

1397
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:14,080
Speaker 6: kind of adjacent to you know, to what you normally

1398
01:20:14,080 --> 01:20:17,120
Speaker 6: would do, and those types of things make a huge,

1399
01:20:18,200 --> 01:20:18,919
Speaker 6: huge difference.

1400
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:31,280
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1401
01:20:31,320 --> 01:20:35,479
Speaker 2: I like that both of you mentioned physically showing up

1402
01:20:36,400 --> 01:20:38,920
Speaker 2: because because there are there's like two ways we can

1403
01:20:39,080 --> 01:20:42,879
Speaker 2: be advocates or conservationists in our spare time. There's there's

1404
01:20:42,680 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 2: the things we can do, you know, digitally or through

1405
01:20:46,400 --> 01:20:50,640
Speaker 2: a phone call, right, we can we can call a legislator.

1406
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:52,760
Speaker 2: We can call a friend and tell them about this

1407
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:55,200
Speaker 2: thing we can learn, which is very very important. That's

1408
01:20:55,240 --> 01:20:59,280
Speaker 2: a very important baseline. You can send a tweet, make

1409
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:01,719
Speaker 2: a blog post, do a podcast about this kind of stuff,

1410
01:21:01,760 --> 01:21:04,160
Speaker 2: and all that stuff is good and helpful and important.

1411
01:21:04,280 --> 01:21:10,000
Speaker 2: You can share your photography, very good. But there is

1412
01:21:10,439 --> 01:21:14,640
Speaker 2: something special, There's something magical. And you guys heard my

1413
01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:17,120
Speaker 2: spiel last year when I talked about this at the

1414
01:21:17,160 --> 01:21:20,320
Speaker 2: Working for Wildlife events. But there is something different that

1415
01:21:20,439 --> 01:21:22,960
Speaker 2: happens when you make that shift from just like talking

1416
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:26,880
Speaker 2: about this stuff to actually showing up physically for it.

1417
01:21:27,360 --> 01:21:31,760
Speaker 2: And it's my snowball theory, and I'll share it again

1418
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:34,839
Speaker 2: even though I know you both know it. What happens,

1419
01:21:34,880 --> 01:21:36,720
Speaker 2: I think is that when you start showing up for

1420
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:40,439
Speaker 2: conservation in a physical way you arrive at an event,

1421
01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:42,000
Speaker 2: you say, you know, I'm going to pick up trash

1422
01:21:42,000 --> 01:21:44,160
Speaker 2: all day today because I care enough, Or I'm going

1423
01:21:44,200 --> 01:21:47,960
Speaker 2: to go and plant trees today or collect acorns or

1424
01:21:48,960 --> 01:21:51,840
Speaker 2: whatever it is, clean up a river. You are kind

1425
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:54,479
Speaker 2: of staking a flag in the ground. It says something

1426
01:21:54,479 --> 01:21:57,920
Speaker 2: about you. This becomes your identity when you're willing to

1427
01:21:57,960 --> 01:22:00,400
Speaker 2: take the time out of daily life to drive somewhere

1428
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:02,920
Speaker 2: else or to hike out somewhere else, to actually get

1429
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 2: your hands dirty for these places, for these animals. That

1430
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:10,559
Speaker 2: is saying something about you in a very real way.

1431
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 2: And that doesn't end on that day, because if you

1432
01:22:13,120 --> 01:22:18,960
Speaker 2: can show up tomorrow or yesterday Earth Day. My wife

1433
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:21,880
Speaker 2: was like, hey, let's real quick, grab a trash bag

1434
01:22:21,920 --> 01:22:23,320
Speaker 2: and let's just go for a walk with the kids,

1435
01:22:23,320 --> 01:22:25,639
Speaker 2: and let's just make sure we're actually taking real action today.

1436
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:27,840
Speaker 2: I was like, Yes, you're absolutely right, let's go do it.

1437
01:22:28,360 --> 01:22:30,680
Speaker 2: And just that little bit of my kids going out

1438
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:33,040
Speaker 2: there yesterday and spending an hour walking through the woods

1439
01:22:33,080 --> 01:22:36,120
Speaker 2: picking up trash, that says a little bit of something

1440
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:39,479
Speaker 2: about them in them, a little bit of them is changing.

1441
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:42,439
Speaker 2: And tomorrow when they're out there and they see a

1442
01:22:42,479 --> 01:22:45,360
Speaker 2: turtle crossing the road or something. They're going to be

1443
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:47,120
Speaker 2: just a little bit more likely to say, Hey, you know,

1444
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:49,200
Speaker 2: I'm the kind of person that picks up trash because

1445
01:22:49,240 --> 01:22:51,519
Speaker 2: I care about nature. So I'm also the kind of

1446
01:22:51,520 --> 01:22:54,240
Speaker 2: person who's going to take the time to hold my

1447
01:22:54,320 --> 01:22:56,360
Speaker 2: dad's hand, look both ways, go into the road and

1448
01:22:56,360 --> 01:22:59,599
Speaker 2: pick up that turtle. Right, and in a more serious note,

1449
01:22:59,600 --> 01:23:01,960
Speaker 2: like with any of us, right, if you can pick

1450
01:23:02,040 --> 01:23:04,800
Speaker 2: up that trash today, then next week you can pick

1451
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:06,400
Speaker 2: up that trash on the side of the road, because

1452
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 2: you know you're that kind of person. And then maybe

1453
01:23:10,360 --> 01:23:12,960
Speaker 2: a month from now, there's some bigger project that maybe

1454
01:23:13,040 --> 01:23:15,680
Speaker 2: in your past life what is seen like outside of

1455
01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 2: your realm of interest or would be too much work.

1456
01:23:19,600 --> 01:23:21,760
Speaker 2: But these little things start adding up, and all of

1457
01:23:21,760 --> 01:23:24,360
Speaker 2: a sudden you start realizing you start seeing yourself in

1458
01:23:24,400 --> 01:23:26,439
Speaker 2: a different way because hey, well I did that thing

1459
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:30,280
Speaker 2: last week, and I did this thing last month, and gosh,

1460
01:23:30,280 --> 01:23:32,479
Speaker 2: I kind of amd that kind of person. And you

1461
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,599
Speaker 2: start having this snowball effect where all of a sudden,

1462
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:37,760
Speaker 2: you're making more and more of an impact, and you're

1463
01:23:37,960 --> 01:23:40,920
Speaker 2: surrounding yourself with people who are also doing these kinds

1464
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:44,000
Speaker 2: of things. And you get this compounding effect if you're

1465
01:23:44,040 --> 01:23:47,599
Speaker 2: putting yourself out there, surrounding yourself with people that care

1466
01:23:47,600 --> 01:23:51,320
Speaker 2: about these things too, and actually investing a little bit

1467
01:23:51,360 --> 01:23:54,839
Speaker 2: of your time and energy. That is I think how

1468
01:23:55,960 --> 01:23:58,519
Speaker 2: any big important thing has happened in this world. Yeah,

1469
01:23:58,560 --> 01:24:00,880
Speaker 2: and I think that's how we can make real change

1470
01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:06,720
Speaker 2: to help deer, public lands, trout stripe, bass, prairie or

1471
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:09,960
Speaker 2: ass lands, whatever it is. That's how we're going to

1472
01:24:10,000 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 2: start making a difference. And so it's a long winded

1473
01:24:13,439 --> 01:24:17,880
Speaker 2: wind up to say we've done some of these things

1474
01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:20,200
Speaker 2: over the last year with the Working for Wildlife tour

1475
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:22,599
Speaker 2: that both of you helped out with and we're part of,

1476
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:25,240
Speaker 2: and to kind of wrap it up, I guess I

1477
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:27,080
Speaker 2: would like to just hear a little bit from both

1478
01:24:27,120 --> 01:24:29,880
Speaker 2: of you about your takeaways from those events last year,

1479
01:24:30,200 --> 01:24:32,719
Speaker 2: and I do want to plug a couple upcoming events

1480
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:35,360
Speaker 2: here for twenty four to two. So Chris, I want

1481
01:24:35,360 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 2: to start with you on this front because you helped

1482
01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:42,160
Speaker 2: us with our very first event last year there in Massachusetts,

1483
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:45,080
Speaker 2: and when it bumped into you the other day at

1484
01:24:45,080 --> 01:24:47,880
Speaker 2: the BHA Rendezvous, you mentioned that there have been like

1485
01:24:48,120 --> 01:24:50,720
Speaker 2: a whole series of like rippling effects coming out of

1486
01:24:50,720 --> 01:24:54,280
Speaker 2: that event. I'd love to hear your takeaway from that day,

1487
01:24:55,360 --> 01:24:57,800
Speaker 2: what you thought about the whole thing, and then you

1488
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:00,240
Speaker 2: know what's happened since that. Yeah.

1489
01:25:00,320 --> 01:25:02,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was a good I mean, it was a

1490
01:25:02,280 --> 01:25:02,800
Speaker 3: great day.

1491
01:25:03,360 --> 01:25:04,680
Speaker 6: And it was you know, as you said, it was

1492
01:25:04,680 --> 01:25:09,360
Speaker 6: the first first of the tour, first for us to

1493
01:25:09,600 --> 01:25:12,360
Speaker 6: to sort of plan an event, because it kind of

1494
01:25:12,439 --> 01:25:14,880
Speaker 6: kind of became a kind of an event conservation event.

1495
01:25:15,760 --> 01:25:18,840
Speaker 6: We had to It took place on the north shore

1496
01:25:18,880 --> 01:25:22,880
Speaker 6: of Massachusett at w May and you know, there's only

1497
01:25:22,960 --> 01:25:25,680
Speaker 6: limited parking on a w May and we had a

1498
01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:29,519
Speaker 6: lot of people registered to attend, so I had to

1499
01:25:29,520 --> 01:25:30,759
Speaker 6: secure off site parking.

1500
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:32,479
Speaker 3: I had to get a minibus. I had to get

1501
01:25:32,479 --> 01:25:33,320
Speaker 3: a minibus driver.

1502
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:36,160
Speaker 6: You know, we wanted to make sure that we had food,

1503
01:25:36,760 --> 01:25:41,559
Speaker 6: and the State Agegency mass Wildlife got got involved. So

1504
01:25:41,600 --> 01:25:45,720
Speaker 6: there was all this logistics that were you know required,

1505
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:50,400
Speaker 6: and again these logistics are are a product of of

1506
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:54,600
Speaker 6: of Marks platform and support and willingness to engage in

1507
01:25:54,600 --> 01:25:58,560
Speaker 6: this and engage with the cunning community uh in Massachusetts.

1508
01:25:59,560 --> 01:26:02,759
Speaker 6: So yeah, a lot of people came, and a lot

1509
01:26:02,920 --> 01:26:06,280
Speaker 6: of the state agency people came, many of whom were

1510
01:26:06,320 --> 01:26:09,760
Speaker 6: coming from outside the district on their days off and

1511
01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:15,960
Speaker 6: were there and really really excited about engaging with constituents.

1512
01:26:16,040 --> 01:26:18,960
Speaker 6: And that I think was one thing that was huge,

1513
01:26:19,360 --> 01:26:23,280
Speaker 6: the fact that people had an opportunity to spend time

1514
01:26:23,760 --> 01:26:26,599
Speaker 6: work alongside, whether it was putting up wood duck boxes

1515
01:26:26,720 --> 01:26:29,559
Speaker 6: or just picking up trash, picking up spent shells at

1516
01:26:29,600 --> 01:26:33,360
Speaker 6: the shooting range. They had time to meet the people

1517
01:26:33,760 --> 01:26:37,840
Speaker 6: who are responsible. They saw the passion all that stuff

1518
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:40,360
Speaker 6: that we talked about for the first hour. They saw

1519
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:43,280
Speaker 6: that in these people, their state employees, and I think

1520
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:49,880
Speaker 6: that was huge. And we had a hugely diverse population

1521
01:26:49,960 --> 01:26:54,920
Speaker 6: of people there from real old timers who had just

1522
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:59,400
Speaker 6: not been plugged in with any organization. I mean they

1523
01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:03,479
Speaker 6: might have members of organizations and they just heard about

1524
01:27:03,479 --> 01:27:05,640
Speaker 6: this event and then it was taking place in a

1525
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:10,200
Speaker 6: place they spent their youth hunting, and they made put

1526
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:13,679
Speaker 6: a lot of effort in trying to be there too.

1527
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:15,240
Speaker 3: A brand new.

1528
01:27:15,200 --> 01:27:22,719
Speaker 6: Hunter to you know, are a local Olympic legend coming

1529
01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 6: down and taking part and giving of their time. So

1530
01:27:26,720 --> 01:27:30,519
Speaker 6: it was just a huge mix of people and experience and.

1531
01:27:32,360 --> 01:27:33,160
Speaker 3: Though many of.

1532
01:27:33,120 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 6: Those people and I talked about this yesterday at my

1533
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:38,000
Speaker 6: PLENARYA I actually put a picture of the group picture

1534
01:27:38,360 --> 01:27:40,559
Speaker 6: of all people, and I was talking about how I

1535
01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:44,679
Speaker 6: could point to just individual people who have never stepped

1536
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:49,759
Speaker 6: up before, have never offered testimony at a regulatory hearing

1537
01:27:49,960 --> 01:27:54,920
Speaker 6: or at a legislative hearing, and who've become involved and

1538
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:59,920
Speaker 6: invigorated through that experience in part because they met all

1539
01:28:00,160 --> 01:28:04,400
Speaker 6: people like them and they built community. And it's been

1540
01:28:04,439 --> 01:28:08,000
Speaker 6: pretty pretty awesome to see one guy who was there

1541
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:13,160
Speaker 6: at another w A very close to there, I bumped into.

1542
01:28:14,080 --> 01:28:15,920
Speaker 6: He was a new hunter, he'd moved to the area,

1543
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:20,040
Speaker 6: and you know, he was inspired just by the conversation

1544
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:22,760
Speaker 6: and that led him to actually shooting a really good buck,

1545
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:24,200
Speaker 6: which I helped him drag.

1546
01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:24,839
Speaker 3: Out of the woods.

1547
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:29,880
Speaker 6: So from from conservation things to time in the field

1548
01:28:29,880 --> 01:28:35,240
Speaker 6: and experiences in the field, friendships, it's been it's been pretty.

1549
01:28:35,560 --> 01:28:35,680
Speaker 5: Uh.

1550
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:38,280
Speaker 3: That snowball It definitely snowballed.

1551
01:28:38,800 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1552
01:28:39,520 --> 01:28:41,560
Speaker 2: I met someone at the at the b h A

1553
01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:44,200
Speaker 2: rendezvous the other day who was at that Boston event.

1554
01:28:44,720 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 2: And I might get the details, the exact details wrong,

1555
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:50,280
Speaker 2: but the basic gist of the story he shared with

1556
01:28:50,600 --> 01:28:52,920
Speaker 2: was that that was the first like event like that

1557
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:55,599
Speaker 2: he'd ever been to and coming out of that, he

1558
01:28:55,680 --> 01:28:58,479
Speaker 2: was so invigorated by it that he started getting more

1559
01:28:58,520 --> 01:29:02,160
Speaker 2: involved with BHA, started doing doing some more chapter related stuff.

1560
01:29:02,160 --> 01:29:06,760
Speaker 2: I guess came to this rendezvous all the way from Massachusetts,

1561
01:29:06,800 --> 01:29:08,719
Speaker 2: came all the way to Minnesota for the rendez who

1562
01:29:08,760 --> 01:29:10,760
Speaker 2: for the first time and it is now about to

1563
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:15,400
Speaker 2: retire from his previous career in armed services and is

1564
01:29:15,479 --> 01:29:18,320
Speaker 2: trying to figure out a way to take a new

1565
01:29:18,439 --> 01:29:21,519
Speaker 2: career within the conservation world. And it kind of all

1566
01:29:21,560 --> 01:29:25,920
Speaker 2: stemmed from this year journey he's been on since that event.

1567
01:29:26,880 --> 01:29:31,240
Speaker 2: So just incredible kind of stories like that to to

1568
01:29:31,640 --> 01:29:33,360
Speaker 2: fuel our fire, I think when you hear that kind

1569
01:29:33,360 --> 01:29:37,160
Speaker 2: of thing, right, Yeah, so exciting stuff. Matt.

1570
01:29:37,960 --> 01:29:40,120
Speaker 3: I also just want to say, like, you know, and

1571
01:29:40,280 --> 01:29:41,040
Speaker 3: thank you.

1572
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:45,200
Speaker 6: You gave so much of your time and energy to

1573
01:29:45,320 --> 01:29:50,360
Speaker 6: talk to people, to work alongside with people, and I

1574
01:29:50,400 --> 01:29:54,080
Speaker 6: think that made just like the fact that they get

1575
01:29:54,160 --> 01:29:58,560
Speaker 6: to meet and work with their state agency people to

1576
01:29:58,560 --> 01:30:02,679
Speaker 6: to you know, be there alongside you who they've probably

1577
01:30:02,720 --> 01:30:05,519
Speaker 6: listened to or watched. I think that also, you know,

1578
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:07,760
Speaker 6: was a big I mean, we're going to be honest here, Matt,

1579
01:30:07,760 --> 01:30:09,320
Speaker 6: and I are going to be honest here. That was

1580
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:11,760
Speaker 6: a big part of it, and so we definitely appreciate that.

1581
01:30:12,760 --> 01:30:17,559
Speaker 2: That's my absolute pleasure, that's for sure. And even though

1582
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:20,840
Speaker 2: Aaron and the guys from Missouri aren't here, we also

1583
01:30:20,840 --> 01:30:25,080
Speaker 2: had another great event with BHA in Missouri last year. Yeah,

1584
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:28,960
Speaker 2: similar effect, I mean, just like really reinvigorating. We got

1585
01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:30,760
Speaker 2: to work on all sorts of cool projects out there.

1586
01:30:31,280 --> 01:30:33,439
Speaker 2: It was a very diverse event in that we were

1587
01:30:33,760 --> 01:30:37,599
Speaker 2: removing encroaching willows within a wetland restoration area. We were

1588
01:30:37,640 --> 01:30:43,360
Speaker 2: creating owl roosting locations in a prairie, we were collecting

1589
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:48,880
Speaker 2: native prairie sees for future replanting efforts to restore grasslands.

1590
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:52,120
Speaker 2: There was a couple other things, but there was a

1591
01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:56,720
Speaker 2: whole bunch of different projects. A very cool event, and

1592
01:30:56,760 --> 01:30:59,559
Speaker 2: then we also had three events with you, Matt and

1593
01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:04,400
Speaker 2: the Nash Deer Association. Would love to you know, we

1594
01:31:04,439 --> 01:31:06,240
Speaker 2: talked about some of the stuff last year, but would

1595
01:31:06,240 --> 01:31:09,200
Speaker 2: love to kind of hear your perspective on what the

1596
01:31:09,200 --> 01:31:11,599
Speaker 2: impact of that stuff was or what the trickle down

1597
01:31:11,600 --> 01:31:15,040
Speaker 2: effects have been that you've seen, whether that's with volunteers

1598
01:31:15,240 --> 01:31:18,519
Speaker 2: or the Forest Service or your organization or anything like that.

1599
01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:24,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, same experience that Chris had with a diverse group

1600
01:31:24,600 --> 01:31:29,479
Speaker 5: showing up. We did events in northern Idaho, did one

1601
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:36,360
Speaker 5: in Mississippi, and did one in Kentucky last year. All

1602
01:31:36,400 --> 01:31:40,479
Speaker 5: three of the events that we held again with Mark

1603
01:31:40,520 --> 01:31:44,040
Speaker 5: you mentioned the Forest Service, we did a little bit differently.

1604
01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:47,120
Speaker 5: We have a public Lands Initiative. It's just one project

1605
01:31:47,160 --> 01:31:51,640
Speaker 5: that we have within the organization, trying to improve a

1606
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:55,960
Speaker 5: million acres of public land, doing this through various methods,

1607
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:58,439
Speaker 5: and one of the ways that we're trying to do

1608
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:00,840
Speaker 5: that is we do stewardship work through the Forest Service.

1609
01:32:00,880 --> 01:32:04,360
Speaker 5: So we have contracts to agreements with the US four

1610
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:07,840
Speaker 5: Service around the country, and so we plug that program

1611
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:13,720
Speaker 5: into the Working for Wildlife tour. Our chapters are our branches.

1612
01:32:13,760 --> 01:32:19,080
Speaker 5: Our volunteer branches do a variety of different activities and

1613
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:23,200
Speaker 5: they vary based on the makeup of those volunteers. Some

1614
01:32:23,280 --> 01:32:25,760
Speaker 5: of them are really strong on hunter recruitment events, some

1615
01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:30,360
Speaker 5: of them are really strong on habitat work or education.

1616
01:32:31,479 --> 01:32:32,320
Speaker 4: They vary.

1617
01:32:32,800 --> 01:32:36,439
Speaker 5: Not as many of our branches or do public land work.

1618
01:32:36,640 --> 01:32:39,839
Speaker 5: Some of them do probably the biggest trickle down effect,

1619
01:32:40,200 --> 01:32:42,120
Speaker 5: and that's one of the reasons we tried to hold

1620
01:32:42,160 --> 01:32:47,280
Speaker 5: it and administer those tour sites from the National Office

1621
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:51,320
Speaker 5: was it just was more opportunity because we have dozens

1622
01:32:51,360 --> 01:32:53,519
Speaker 5: of projects going on on public land. It just was

1623
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:56,880
Speaker 5: it was easier to plug in. And the experience was

1624
01:32:56,920 --> 01:32:59,679
Speaker 5: similar in terms of the people that showed up varied

1625
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:04,960
Speaker 5: from families to people that had never heard of us before,

1626
01:33:05,000 --> 01:33:07,960
Speaker 5: but they hunted that WMA for years, and they showed

1627
01:33:08,000 --> 01:33:11,160
Speaker 5: up because there was a volunteer day to some of

1628
01:33:10,840 --> 01:33:15,680
Speaker 5: our volunteers and longtime members brand new hunters. It ran

1629
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:21,559
Speaker 5: the gamut. In Idaho, that project was pretty neat. We're

1630
01:33:21,640 --> 01:33:30,360
Speaker 5: restoring aspen. In Mississippi, we were planting trees and also

1631
01:33:30,520 --> 01:33:35,280
Speaker 5: seeding some areas for game hunting because that's a highly

1632
01:33:35,439 --> 01:33:41,600
Speaker 5: used wildlife management area for that upcoming deer season. In Kentucky,

1633
01:33:41,960 --> 01:33:46,559
Speaker 5: Mark mentioned picking up acorns. We picked up seven eight

1634
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:49,040
Speaker 5: hundred pounds of white oak acorns which are now being

1635
01:33:49,080 --> 01:33:53,280
Speaker 5: grown out in the state nursery. All three projects involved

1636
01:33:53,280 --> 01:33:56,200
Speaker 5: other partners. We had the state Wildlife Agency involved in

1637
01:33:56,240 --> 01:34:01,040
Speaker 5: each one. But the trickle down effect, we have a

1638
01:34:01,080 --> 01:34:03,400
Speaker 5: lot of our branches that are now interested in doing

1639
01:34:03,400 --> 01:34:06,120
Speaker 5: these kinds of events. We've always had a few, but

1640
01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:09,759
Speaker 5: I've talked to at a national webinar series to our branches,

1641
01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:13,759
Speaker 5: and just this year alone, I can name events happening

1642
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:17,519
Speaker 5: in Missouri and in Indiana and other things because of

1643
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:20,040
Speaker 5: the work and for Wildlife Tour. So it did have

1644
01:34:20,080 --> 01:34:22,639
Speaker 5: that multiplier effect, and I think it'll become a larger

1645
01:34:22,640 --> 01:34:25,760
Speaker 5: part of the persona of our branch network, and we've

1646
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:30,799
Speaker 5: actually provide them guidance on how to hold similar events locally.

1647
01:34:31,880 --> 01:34:36,200
Speaker 5: I think one of the best stories that came from

1648
01:34:36,400 --> 01:34:38,120
Speaker 5: you know, there are lots of stories and the people

1649
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:40,800
Speaker 5: I met. One of the best stories. Mark and I

1650
01:34:41,040 --> 01:34:43,639
Speaker 5: were in Kentucky talking to a young man that brought

1651
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:48,360
Speaker 5: his whole family, little children there, and he was courageous

1652
01:34:48,439 --> 01:34:52,080
Speaker 5: enough to talk to us about why he was there.

1653
01:34:52,160 --> 01:34:53,960
Speaker 5: We asked a bunch of people, I'm sure you did, Chris,

1654
01:34:54,000 --> 01:34:55,840
Speaker 5: you know why they came that day, and he was

1655
01:34:55,840 --> 01:34:58,000
Speaker 5: courageous enough to say, you know, we had wanted to

1656
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:00,720
Speaker 5: learn how to hunt, and this was something he was

1657
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:02,519
Speaker 5: trying to do on his own and he figured coming

1658
01:35:02,560 --> 01:35:05,720
Speaker 5: to this event that he heard about on the Meat

1659
01:35:05,720 --> 01:35:08,439
Speaker 5: Eater and Wired to Hunt platform, it was in his area.

1660
01:35:08,479 --> 01:35:15,200
Speaker 5: He was he's a military man, and that event allowed

1661
01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:18,000
Speaker 5: us to connect him with somebody through our for service

1662
01:35:18,080 --> 01:35:20,920
Speaker 5: contacts there locally that took him out and got him

1663
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:23,599
Speaker 5: his first year. And I shared that with Mark last

1664
01:35:23,600 --> 01:35:26,840
Speaker 5: fall and he's he wants to volunteer now and is

1665
01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:30,200
Speaker 5: starting one of our branches. So there's these These events

1666
01:35:30,280 --> 01:35:33,800
Speaker 5: do have that snowball effect that you talked about. We're

1667
01:35:33,840 --> 01:35:36,840
Speaker 5: excited to do more of them and use them as

1668
01:35:36,880 --> 01:35:44,160
Speaker 5: a baseline of how not only volunteer branches or chapters

1669
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:46,719
Speaker 5: and mngos can do it, but anybody can do it locally.

1670
01:35:48,160 --> 01:35:50,040
Speaker 5: You don't need you just need a couple of people

1671
01:35:50,160 --> 01:35:53,280
Speaker 5: and permission to go out and do it. And I'd

1672
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:54,879
Speaker 5: love to see more of this stuff happening.

1673
01:35:56,120 --> 01:35:59,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it's it's been. It's been a lot of fun.

1674
01:36:00,040 --> 01:36:02,960
Speaker 2: Been very fulfilling to see, exciting to see, you know,

1675
01:36:03,680 --> 01:36:05,680
Speaker 2: both on like on the day of just hearing all

1676
01:36:05,680 --> 01:36:08,160
Speaker 2: the stories and seeing the good work that's getting done.

1677
01:36:08,280 --> 01:36:12,760
Speaker 2: And the surprise for me was just all the the

1678
01:36:12,840 --> 01:36:15,360
Speaker 2: pure enjoyment of the whole thing. Like I knew i'd

1679
01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:17,360
Speaker 2: feel good about doing the work, but I did not

1680
01:36:17,439 --> 01:36:19,240
Speaker 2: realize it was just gonna be so much damn fun

1681
01:36:19,240 --> 01:36:21,120
Speaker 2: and that there're gonna be so many friendships started and

1682
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:25,160
Speaker 2: connections made. Stories like that like someone getting connected with

1683
01:36:25,200 --> 01:36:26,960
Speaker 2: the mentor who was able to help him, you know,

1684
01:36:27,040 --> 01:36:28,840
Speaker 2: teach him how to deer on get his first year,

1685
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:32,519
Speaker 2: Like how incredible is that? So that's exciting and it's

1686
01:36:32,600 --> 01:36:35,280
Speaker 2: it's it's a big part of why we're continuing the

1687
01:36:35,280 --> 01:36:37,640
Speaker 2: tour going this year, and I'm gonna do everything I

1688
01:36:37,680 --> 01:36:38,880
Speaker 2: can to keep it going the year after that and

1689
01:36:38,920 --> 01:36:41,040
Speaker 2: the year after that and and hopefully see this thing

1690
01:36:41,080 --> 01:36:44,479
Speaker 2: grow this year. Right now, we have three events scheduled

1691
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:47,000
Speaker 2: so far. We'll see if there's more or not, but

1692
01:36:47,600 --> 01:36:49,679
Speaker 2: we have do we do a three locked in right now?

1693
01:36:50,520 --> 01:36:53,360
Speaker 2: Two of which Matt, you are helping organize again, do

1694
01:36:53,400 --> 01:36:56,360
Speaker 2: you want to give folks the quick spiel on these

1695
01:36:56,360 --> 01:36:57,760
Speaker 2: next two coming up here pretty soon?

1696
01:36:57,920 --> 01:37:00,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, we have an event coming up in a month,

1697
01:37:01,200 --> 01:37:05,040
Speaker 5: May eighteenth. It's in Kentucky on Daniel Boone National Forest.

1698
01:37:05,600 --> 01:37:09,639
Speaker 5: That showing was real strong. We actually had the Kentucky

1699
01:37:09,680 --> 01:37:13,400
Speaker 5: BHA volunteers showed up in force that day, Chris, So

1700
01:37:13,439 --> 01:37:18,000
Speaker 5: that was awesome. So we have one on May eighteenth

1701
01:37:18,000 --> 01:37:20,400
Speaker 5: on Daniel Boone National Forest. We're going to be actually

1702
01:37:21,000 --> 01:37:26,800
Speaker 5: on a WMA doing some habitat improvement and access improvement

1703
01:37:27,360 --> 01:37:30,880
Speaker 5: within the WMA. Then we have one on June first

1704
01:37:30,960 --> 01:37:36,439
Speaker 5: on Allegheny National Forest in northwestern Pennsylvania, and that one's

1705
01:37:36,479 --> 01:37:40,799
Speaker 5: going to involve a whole suite of activities, installing bird

1706
01:37:41,479 --> 01:37:46,360
Speaker 5: nesting boxes and bat boxes, removing some old fence, and

1707
01:37:46,400 --> 01:37:49,200
Speaker 5: actually repairing some fence. They actually have deer fencing up

1708
01:37:49,240 --> 01:37:52,280
Speaker 5: all over that National Forest. We're going to be we're

1709
01:37:52,320 --> 01:37:56,519
Speaker 5: doing some access work as well and tree and shrub planting,

1710
01:37:56,640 --> 01:37:59,560
Speaker 5: and so that's on Saturday, June first.

1711
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:03,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we've got another one on August twenty

1712
01:38:03,720 --> 01:38:06,720
Speaker 2: fourth that's up in northern Minnesota, right on the edge

1713
01:38:06,720 --> 01:38:09,960
Speaker 2: of the Bounder Waters, and we're going to be doing

1714
01:38:10,000 --> 01:38:14,240
Speaker 2: a pretty cool project in collaboration with the Minnesota DNR

1715
01:38:14,840 --> 01:38:17,080
Speaker 2: and I think with the Forest Service up there too,

1716
01:38:17,080 --> 01:38:21,000
Speaker 2: in which we'll be actually creating an access point where

1717
01:38:21,000 --> 01:38:23,800
Speaker 2: you can, like they've got all these different access points

1718
01:38:23,800 --> 01:38:26,599
Speaker 2: for water access there on the boundary waters and surrounding lakes,

1719
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:29,080
Speaker 2: so we're going to help install an access point off

1720
01:38:29,080 --> 01:38:33,800
Speaker 2: this lake and then create white tail wintering habitat back

1721
01:38:33,840 --> 01:38:36,280
Speaker 2: in this area as well, so they'll be like a

1722
01:38:36,280 --> 01:38:39,679
Speaker 2: public land access component of it and the habitat side,

1723
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:41,439
Speaker 2: So it's gonna be a you know, kind of like

1724
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:44,639
Speaker 2: that other one you mentioned, Matt, A very clear connection

1725
01:38:44,720 --> 01:38:47,760
Speaker 2: between man, we're giving back to wildlife and then we're

1726
01:38:47,800 --> 01:38:51,280
Speaker 2: also creating opportunities for hunting, fishing, camping, whatever it is.

1727
01:38:52,000 --> 01:38:54,599
Speaker 2: It's a big cycle that feeds itself and all these

1728
01:38:54,640 --> 01:38:58,000
Speaker 2: parts come together to help both us and the natural resources.

1729
01:38:58,080 --> 01:39:01,679
Speaker 2: So very cool stuff. I will definitely be keeping folks

1730
01:39:01,840 --> 01:39:04,240
Speaker 2: posted if there's more that we can add to the

1731
01:39:04,280 --> 01:39:06,680
Speaker 2: slate this year or early next year. But I'd say

1732
01:39:06,720 --> 01:39:09,120
Speaker 2: anyone listening if you would like to participate in one

1733
01:39:09,160 --> 01:39:11,599
Speaker 2: of those three events coming up or want to see

1734
01:39:11,600 --> 01:39:14,760
Speaker 2: if there's other ones down the line, Rather than try

1735
01:39:14,800 --> 01:39:16,280
Speaker 2: and give you a specific url, I don't have it

1736
01:39:16,360 --> 01:39:19,640
Speaker 2: easy RL. Just google the Working for Wildlife tour or

1737
01:39:19,720 --> 01:39:22,040
Speaker 2: visit the meet at or website which is the meat

1738
01:39:22,080 --> 01:39:24,680
Speaker 2: Eater dot com and search for the same thing and

1739
01:39:24,720 --> 01:39:31,439
Speaker 2: we will have the latest information there. I think that's

1740
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:34,120
Speaker 2: There should be sign up pages, Matt available for the

1741
01:39:34,160 --> 01:39:37,640
Speaker 2: first two right rock and roll, so hit those up.

1742
01:39:37,680 --> 01:39:43,639
Speaker 2: Please sign up Kentucky, Pennsylvania, Minnesota, and possibly more to come.

1743
01:39:44,479 --> 01:39:47,120
Speaker 2: If you guys, the two of you had any last

1744
01:39:47,120 --> 01:39:50,000
Speaker 2: final words. You want to leave folks with a final

1745
01:39:50,280 --> 01:39:55,439
Speaker 2: action item, suggestion or just peace out. I got to

1746
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:59,000
Speaker 2: take a nap. How would you like to leave things?

1747
01:39:59,040 --> 01:39:59,360
Speaker 7: Chris?

1748
01:40:00,439 --> 01:40:00,839
Speaker 3: Uh?

1749
01:40:01,200 --> 01:40:05,880
Speaker 6: One thing, just jumping way back to the the career thing.

1750
01:40:06,640 --> 01:40:09,040
Speaker 6: I think one of the things that is, and I

1751
01:40:09,120 --> 01:40:12,839
Speaker 6: think Matt mentioned it and Mark you touched on it

1752
01:40:12,960 --> 01:40:16,280
Speaker 6: was separate. I think I forget exactly how you put it,

1753
01:40:16,280 --> 01:40:18,799
Speaker 6: but I think it was, you know, separating your ego

1754
01:40:19,000 --> 01:40:21,439
Speaker 6: around a lot of this stuff, particularly you know, in

1755
01:40:21,479 --> 01:40:25,559
Speaker 6: this this hunting space. And I think that is really

1756
01:40:25,600 --> 01:40:28,920
Speaker 6: important because when you go and make those connections and

1757
01:40:28,920 --> 01:40:32,719
Speaker 6: as you start having conversations with people, that is going

1758
01:40:32,840 --> 01:40:39,240
Speaker 6: to if your if your motivations aren't you know, I

1759
01:40:39,280 --> 01:40:41,280
Speaker 6: don't want to say we all.

1760
01:40:41,320 --> 01:40:43,479
Speaker 3: Obviously it's a job, you have to pay, we have

1761
01:40:43,560 --> 01:40:45,360
Speaker 3: bills to pay and all that kind of stuff. But

1762
01:40:45,400 --> 01:40:47,080
Speaker 3: if your motivations are.

1763
01:40:48,840 --> 01:40:52,640
Speaker 6: Outside of what the people would use your skills and

1764
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:55,759
Speaker 6: talents for, it is going to be a parent very

1765
01:40:56,000 --> 01:41:01,519
Speaker 6: very quickly. And so I'm always kind of like remind

1766
01:41:01,560 --> 01:41:05,680
Speaker 6: myself that, all right, I am, I am operating. This

1767
01:41:05,720 --> 01:41:08,639
Speaker 6: could be advantageous for me, but I need to make

1768
01:41:08,680 --> 01:41:11,360
Speaker 6: sure that this is going to be the benefit of

1769
01:41:11,360 --> 01:41:13,840
Speaker 6: my organization, to the benefit of the resource. And I

1770
01:41:13,880 --> 01:41:17,120
Speaker 6: always keep that in mind. And one of the silly

1771
01:41:17,200 --> 01:41:19,120
Speaker 6: kind of ways I remind myself and Mark's been in

1772
01:41:19,160 --> 01:41:20,479
Speaker 6: my office it.

1773
01:41:20,479 --> 01:41:23,160
Speaker 3: Is the wall of four keys.

1774
01:41:22,880 --> 01:41:25,320
Speaker 6: In my office because I was I'm on all these

1775
01:41:25,360 --> 01:41:27,960
Speaker 6: calls and all these times, and I have the beer

1776
01:41:28,000 --> 01:41:30,280
Speaker 6: that I have in my office are four kys.

1777
01:41:30,360 --> 01:41:32,840
Speaker 3: Now, I have made an adjustment. I have put in

1778
01:41:32,880 --> 01:41:33,439
Speaker 3: a better deer.

1779
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:36,519
Speaker 6: But that was a deer that I did with that

1780
01:41:36,600 --> 01:41:41,160
Speaker 6: I that was harvested along side one of my partners

1781
01:41:41,720 --> 01:41:44,000
Speaker 6: or one of my mentees, and it was just a

1782
01:41:44,000 --> 01:41:46,080
Speaker 6: meaningful experience for both of us. So I've made the

1783
01:41:46,120 --> 01:41:49,120
Speaker 6: exception in that case. But it's just a little bit

1784
01:41:49,160 --> 01:41:52,000
Speaker 6: of a reminder that, all right, like, this isn't about me,

1785
01:41:52,080 --> 01:41:56,240
Speaker 6: This isn't about sometimes, it's not even about Baja. This

1786
01:41:56,720 --> 01:41:59,960
Speaker 6: is about working for wildlife. And so that would be

1787
01:42:00,360 --> 01:42:03,800
Speaker 6: one point that I would make on the professional front,

1788
01:42:04,040 --> 01:42:07,400
Speaker 6: and then just in general, just just get involved. Just

1789
01:42:07,439 --> 01:42:13,679
Speaker 6: get out there and do something and find like minded people,

1790
01:42:14,080 --> 01:42:18,599
Speaker 6: build community, and let's continue to build that snowball.

1791
01:42:19,720 --> 01:42:24,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, mat Uh, this is great advice for anything. Learn

1792
01:42:25,479 --> 01:42:28,080
Speaker 5: as Chris said, and share. And that's the one thing

1793
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:31,800
Speaker 5: that I you know, sharing is caring right, you know, share,

1794
01:42:32,040 --> 01:42:35,720
Speaker 5: share what you've learned, Pull people along with you on

1795
01:42:35,760 --> 01:42:38,000
Speaker 5: the journey, talk to them about what is what you're

1796
01:42:38,040 --> 01:42:40,760
Speaker 5: passionate about when you show up to things, because that

1797
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:44,840
Speaker 5: that tangible of showing up. You know, our self identity

1798
01:42:44,920 --> 01:42:47,479
Speaker 5: is a big part of how our confidence and how

1799
01:42:47,479 --> 01:42:50,240
Speaker 5: we feel about ourselves. As Mark said, So there's the

1800
01:42:50,280 --> 01:42:53,960
Speaker 5: physical showing up for a Working for Wildlife event or

1801
01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:56,920
Speaker 5: a BHA event or an NDA event or you know,

1802
01:42:57,040 --> 01:43:00,160
Speaker 5: whatever that is. But you can also show up and

1803
01:43:00,200 --> 01:43:02,680
Speaker 5: be a good son or daughter, or show up and

1804
01:43:02,720 --> 01:43:04,320
Speaker 5: be a good parent, or show up and be a

1805
01:43:04,320 --> 01:43:08,240
Speaker 5: good friend or a good employee by doing right. And

1806
01:43:08,680 --> 01:43:11,800
Speaker 5: part of that is sharing. And so my advice to

1807
01:43:11,800 --> 01:43:15,920
Speaker 5: anybody is, if you're inspired by the story of conservation,

1808
01:43:16,040 --> 01:43:19,599
Speaker 5: if you're inspired by the work that Chris does or

1809
01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:23,559
Speaker 5: that Mark does, or that I do, and you want

1810
01:43:23,600 --> 01:43:26,439
Speaker 5: to get involved, either as a volunteer or take the

1811
01:43:26,479 --> 01:43:30,680
Speaker 5: deep dive, bring somebody along with you. Some of the

1812
01:43:30,760 --> 01:43:35,160
Speaker 5: most meaningful experiences what Chris just said in my life

1813
01:43:36,520 --> 01:43:40,400
Speaker 5: have been when other people are involved. And that might

1814
01:43:40,760 --> 01:43:43,160
Speaker 5: a lot of that is involved in the outdoors, but

1815
01:43:43,920 --> 01:43:46,800
Speaker 5: watching somebody get their first dear or watch their first

1816
01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:50,479
Speaker 5: sun rise, or the jitters they get, or my kids

1817
01:43:50,680 --> 01:43:52,799
Speaker 5: walking with me in the woods and me just teaching

1818
01:43:52,800 --> 01:43:56,240
Speaker 5: them how to walk quietly, and all the things that

1819
01:43:56,280 --> 01:43:59,800
Speaker 5: we do as outdoors men and women. A lot of

1820
01:43:59,840 --> 01:44:04,400
Speaker 5: it does have to do with sharing and the genuine

1821
01:44:04,439 --> 01:44:06,640
Speaker 5: mention that I mentioned that earlier. You know, do it

1822
01:44:06,680 --> 01:44:09,679
Speaker 5: for yourself, you know there is that self side of it,

1823
01:44:10,160 --> 01:44:13,280
Speaker 5: but don't be afraid to share, share with somebody and

1824
01:44:13,280 --> 01:44:17,479
Speaker 5: and take the things that you've learned. I hope people

1825
01:44:17,479 --> 01:44:22,080
Speaker 5: are inspired, honestly, you know, not just listen to a

1826
01:44:22,160 --> 01:44:25,960
Speaker 5: podcast about it like this one, but to do something.

1827
01:44:27,080 --> 01:44:29,800
Speaker 5: And it doesn't need to be grander, it doesn't need

1828
01:44:29,840 --> 01:44:35,040
Speaker 5: to be big, but just do something, you know, hold

1829
01:44:35,040 --> 01:44:38,760
Speaker 5: somebody's hand and jump in together and do something good.

1830
01:44:39,560 --> 01:44:40,599
Speaker 5: It'll make you feel better.

1831
01:44:42,040 --> 01:44:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, the greatest care for depression Action Action Action. Well,

1832
01:44:49,160 --> 01:44:52,080
Speaker 2: thank you both, Thank you so much. I am leaving

1833
01:44:52,120 --> 01:44:58,600
Speaker 2: this inspired and reinvigorated and excited to continue trying to

1834
01:44:58,600 --> 01:45:01,080
Speaker 2: to make a difference and induce good stuff in this world.

1835
01:45:01,240 --> 01:45:06,040
Speaker 2: For these incredible places, incredible creatures. We're so so lucky

1836
01:45:06,080 --> 01:45:09,000
Speaker 2: to live in a place where we can do these things,

1837
01:45:09,000 --> 01:45:12,200
Speaker 2: where we can hunt and fish and explore. Man, that's

1838
01:45:12,240 --> 01:45:15,160
Speaker 2: not the case for everyone. So we got to remind

1839
01:45:15,200 --> 01:45:17,519
Speaker 2: ourselves not to take that for granted and not to

1840
01:45:17,640 --> 01:45:20,840
Speaker 2: assume that it's guaranteed. We have to make sure that

1841
01:45:20,840 --> 01:45:24,840
Speaker 2: we are putting in the effort to maintain these opportunities, privileges,

1842
01:45:24,880 --> 01:45:28,840
Speaker 2: and resources. So on us, I will leave with two

1843
01:45:29,360 --> 01:45:33,680
Speaker 2: last notes more practically. Number one, an action item that

1844
01:45:33,760 --> 01:45:36,519
Speaker 2: everyone I would highly suggest you take if you have

1845
01:45:36,600 --> 01:45:39,520
Speaker 2: not already, is become a member of the two organizations

1846
01:45:39,520 --> 01:45:43,880
Speaker 2: that these guys are a part of. Both tremendous conservation organizations.

1847
01:45:44,080 --> 01:45:47,240
Speaker 2: Both have opportunities and events that you can participate in,

1848
01:45:47,320 --> 01:45:51,000
Speaker 2: like we've talked about, even outside of working for wildlife, right,

1849
01:45:51,000 --> 01:45:54,280
Speaker 2: there's other stewardship events BHA chapters have as you just mentioned.

1850
01:45:54,600 --> 01:45:56,760
Speaker 2: Other chapters are trying to get some things kicked off

1851
01:45:56,760 --> 01:46:00,720
Speaker 2: with NBA in places. Man, there's so many opportunities. So

1852
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:04,160
Speaker 2: these are two organizations you can join. Become a member,

1853
01:46:04,200 --> 01:46:08,400
Speaker 2: please do. It's Dear Association dot com for the NDA,

1854
01:46:08,520 --> 01:46:11,800
Speaker 2: and it is Backcountry Hunters dot Org for BHA. All right,

1855
01:46:13,040 --> 01:46:16,840
Speaker 2: you're right, Okay, so head to those websites, become a member,

1856
01:46:17,800 --> 01:46:21,320
Speaker 2: get involved, and then I'll reiterate something I just said,

1857
01:46:22,160 --> 01:46:25,120
Speaker 2: which is, yes, there's three events scheduled so far for

1858
01:46:25,160 --> 01:46:27,439
Speaker 2: the Working for Wildlife Tour this year, but there are

1859
01:46:27,479 --> 01:46:30,680
Speaker 2: many other stewardship events across the country involved with other

1860
01:46:30,800 --> 01:46:33,840
Speaker 2: organizations all over the place. So if you do not

1861
01:46:33,960 --> 01:46:36,640
Speaker 2: live near one of those three we mentioned, don't let

1862
01:46:36,720 --> 01:46:39,080
Speaker 2: that stop you. Do a little bit searching around, do

1863
01:46:39,080 --> 01:46:41,200
Speaker 2: a little bit bit of googling, reach out to your

1864
01:46:41,240 --> 01:46:45,040
Speaker 2: local chapter of whatever organizations you're part of, reach out

1865
01:46:45,040 --> 01:46:48,960
Speaker 2: to your your local forest service unit, whatever it is.

1866
01:46:49,240 --> 01:46:52,759
Speaker 2: There's probably some way you can get involved. Like Matt said,

1867
01:46:53,120 --> 01:46:56,720
Speaker 2: do it, get involved, do the thing, and let's get

1868
01:46:56,720 --> 01:46:57,799
Speaker 2: more snowballs rolling.

1869
01:46:57,720 --> 01:46:58,120
Speaker 7: Down the hill.

1870
01:47:03,200 --> 01:47:06,320
Speaker 2: All right, that is a wrap. Thanks for being here. Please,

1871
01:47:06,320 --> 01:47:08,000
Speaker 2: as a mention, make sure you're a member of.

1872
01:47:08,040 --> 01:47:09,519
Speaker 4: BHA and NDA.

1873
01:47:09,960 --> 01:47:12,519
Speaker 2: I hope you'll take some action after our chat here,

1874
01:47:13,400 --> 01:47:16,000
Speaker 2: sign up for those Working for Wildlife events, sign up

1875
01:47:16,000 --> 01:47:19,120
Speaker 2: for a different stewardship event, Participate in any kind of

1876
01:47:19,160 --> 01:47:22,040
Speaker 2: way you can. When it comes to online advocacy, make

1877
01:47:22,080 --> 01:47:27,679
Speaker 2: your phone calls, chat with your legislators. Learn Like Chris said,

1878
01:47:27,840 --> 01:47:31,559
Speaker 2: make sure you're maintaining a baseline understanding of the different

1879
01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:35,360
Speaker 2: issues ongoing. Follow the news. Make sure that you are

1880
01:47:35,400 --> 01:47:38,840
Speaker 2: an educated and enlightened conservationist so you can take action

1881
01:47:38,960 --> 01:47:43,200
Speaker 2: on the right things when the time is ready. And well,

1882
01:47:43,200 --> 01:47:45,439
Speaker 2: that ill said, thank you.

1883
01:47:45,640 --> 01:47:47,680
Speaker 3: Thanks for being here. I appreciate you being a part

1884
01:47:47,680 --> 01:47:48,200
Speaker 3: of this community.

1885
01:47:48,240 --> 01:47:50,920
Speaker 2: I appreciate you being the kind of person who puts

1886
01:47:50,920 --> 01:47:54,439
Speaker 2: a flag in the ground and says, hey, I care

1887
01:47:54,640 --> 01:47:59,240
Speaker 2: enough about wildlife, about wild places, about deer hunting, fishing,

1888
01:47:59,320 --> 01:48:01,479
Speaker 2: turkey hunting, what every thing is. You care enough to

1889
01:48:01,520 --> 01:48:04,679
Speaker 2: do something about it, to give back and to work

1890
01:48:04,720 --> 01:48:09,360
Speaker 2: for wildlife. So thanks and stay wired to hunt.