Speaker 1: So Evan is Evan our dating expert, our only male
Speaker 1: dating expert, Evan Katz, which we love because I love
Speaker 1: getting the male perspective is here. We're going to talk
Speaker 1: more about dating relationships the holidays, and he has a
Speaker 1: gift for all of you, which is amazing. So, Evan,
Speaker 1: what is your gift going to be today? This is exciting.
Speaker 1: It's a holiday, You're giving a gift.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't get too excited about the gift, but it's
Speaker 2: the gift of knowledge. If you go to my website,
Speaker 2: Evanmarkatz dot com, forward slash just be, you could take
Speaker 2: a short quiz, like a really short quiz, and you
Speaker 2: will get an answer to the question have you been
Speaker 2: wasting your time on the wrong men? And I predict
Speaker 2: you will be shocked and appulled to discover that, indeed,
Speaker 2: you spent most of your life wasting your time on
Speaker 2: the wrong men. And I will continue to give you
Speaker 2: free dating relationship advice.
Speaker 3: I need that, Okay, I need that quiz. Okay, great, Okay.
Speaker 1: So I have been in a dating adventure era and
Speaker 1: I decided that I wasn't going to get serious at
Speaker 1: the earliest until.
Speaker 3: Like the end of this year. Or the beginning of
Speaker 3: the of the of the next year, right, and I haven't.
Speaker 1: I've like flirted with I've posted some like pictures of
Speaker 1: me holding someone's hand from behind and like the back
Speaker 1: of someone's head, but.
Speaker 3: I have not people.
Speaker 1: Despite what the media says, I'm not hard launched anything
Speaker 1: intentionally because I don't want any of my relationship life
Speaker 1: to be so public. But even like little pat nip
Speaker 1: and hints, just to make people that I'm dating feel
Speaker 1: like they're part of something and not like, you know,
Speaker 1: demoralized or like insignificant, I have posted like breadcrumbs, but
Speaker 1: but I've been I've dated for months and when I'm
Speaker 1: seen now, oh and like the truth that there have
Speaker 1: been people that I've dated that no one's ever seen.
Speaker 1: And then there have been some people that I happen
Speaker 1: to have been a more public places or I want
Speaker 1: to go to an event, and it's that part sort
Speaker 1: of sucks when you're public, because a picture is worth
Speaker 1: a million words, like everyone. So my question is, I
Speaker 1: sometimes I don't want to like ever confirm or deny
Speaker 1: or launch or not launch, but I feel like I
Speaker 1: want to.
Speaker 3: Why Why does Leonardo.
Speaker 1: DiCaprio, for example, get to run around and like just
Speaker 1: be photographed with different people. But no one thinks he's
Speaker 1: marrying them. No one says it's like his serious girlfriend.
Speaker 1: No one says it's a hard launch. He's just like
Speaker 1: in pictures of people. And even if you took a
Speaker 1: picture and you saw a girl, wouldn't mean Leonardo DiCaprio
Speaker 1: or any of these guys, you know, hard launched. And
Speaker 1: it like women get crystallized and reduced to like if
Speaker 1: she's in a picture with someone, it means they're in
Speaker 1: a relationship, because that's all women are supposed to want.
Speaker 1: Like we're not we're not. We don't get to be
Speaker 1: like guys. I could just be dating. I could just
Speaker 1: be dating. Why can't I just be a person that's
Speaker 1: out dating. But it has to be defined because that's
Speaker 1: the difference between women and men. Men get the fuck around.
Speaker 1: Women have feel like they're begging to be married.
Speaker 2: I agree with everything you said. It's a double standard,
Speaker 2: and you're in a very unique position where you can
Speaker 2: defy that and just say here's what I'm doing. I
Speaker 2: don't care what the world thinks, just the fact that
Speaker 2: you have you have to have a vocabulary for this
Speaker 2: death and and again I look at what you do
Speaker 2: with great admiration. The idea that you have to launch
Speaker 2: your relationship publicly, that there's a pr campaign around that
Speaker 2: instead of just two people who take down their dating
Speaker 2: profiles and like each other and focus on each other,
Speaker 2: that there has to be a larger thing behind it.
Speaker 2: These are levels of complication that most people will never
Speaker 2: have to be faced with. It's like relationships. Finding someone
Speaker 2: you could spend all your time with for the rest
Speaker 2: of your life is challenging enough. Now we layer what
Speaker 2: a lot of people do in your position. I'm going
Speaker 2: to remove you from it individually, but you know, public
Speaker 2: long distance, vast sums of money, individual business ventures, tons
Speaker 2: of travel. Think about just regular people, right, Doctors and
Speaker 2: lawyers live in their suburbs. Right. And now you're laying
Speaker 2: all this other stuff. And then you say, why is
Speaker 2: it so hard the life you lead?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: This is Icarus stuff. I mean it is. There's zero
Speaker 2: value judgment for what you've created. And I would never
Speaker 2: want you to dim your shine. Just know this. These
Speaker 2: are very very unique issues that are faced by people
Speaker 2: who republic that regular folks don't have to deal with.
Speaker 2: And now, but a complicating factors.
Speaker 3: No, But I always bring it down to the cul
Speaker 3: de sac.
Speaker 1: If let's say that you're in the middle of the
Speaker 1: country or some in a cul de sac community, and
Speaker 1: you know, the husband breaks there's a divorce, and the
Speaker 1: husband goes off and he's dating different people.
Speaker 3: He's sort of like a cat, and the women at
Speaker 3: the car.
Speaker 1: Pool want him, you know, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: But if she's with someone, it means, oh, she found
Speaker 1: someone and she's going to get what she really wants,
Speaker 1: because women really want to get married again. Like it's
Speaker 1: just as a construct that's different for men and women.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Well, I have to talk about
Speaker 1: myself for celebrities as an example, but then I distill
Speaker 1: it because it's not relatable.
Speaker 3: And I do think that most of these things can.
Speaker 1: So it's not about someone who is on the cover
Speaker 1: of Forbes magazine, but it's about a woman who society
Speaker 1: is telling to become more successful and to be motivated
Speaker 1: and to want to go get it. But then you know,
Speaker 1: the dope who works at the car wash is going
Speaker 1: to feel intimidated. It always works, I think for.
Speaker 2: It, I feel like you're getting a lot of power
Speaker 2: over to the dope at the car wash and what
Speaker 2: the people think. And again, I'm not in your shoes.
Speaker 2: So I would go back to the ceo intern metaphor.
Speaker 2: No one's telling you, as a woman what limits you
Speaker 2: should have on yourself. If you want to be alone
Speaker 2: for the rest, if you want to be Martha Stewart,
Speaker 2: go ahead and be Martha's Stewart. Right. I have a
Speaker 2: Martha Stuart story which I won't tell here, but I like,
Speaker 2: but like, there's a very conscious choice to put that
Speaker 2: first in relationship second, and you will end up with
Speaker 2: great wealth, but you might end up lacking a certain
Speaker 2: amount of romantic love. And it's not bad and it's
Speaker 2: not wrong. It's a choice I would tell any woman,
Speaker 2: no matter where you live, no matter what you do,
Speaker 2: no matter how old you are, I don't care if
Speaker 2: you're listening to Bethany and you make twenty one grand
Speaker 2: a year, Right, you were the CEO of your love's life.
Speaker 2: Men are the interns applying for a job with you.
Speaker 2: You hold that job open until you find someone who's
Speaker 2: worthy of it. Right, and you can do whatever you want.
Speaker 2: You could cycle in turns out every three months, because
Speaker 2: that's where you're at in your life and that's perfectly
Speaker 2: good and no one has to judge you for it.
Speaker 2: When you decide you're ready to get serious, don't let
Speaker 2: someone occupy that space so you can. And I encourage
Speaker 2: women to be because most of the resentment I'm picking
Speaker 2: up is I want to date like a man. Great death,
Speaker 2: did he date like a man?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 1: So women's hiring how much you know, as a relationship
Speaker 1: in New York City apartment, you're not getting high ceilings, light,
Speaker 1: a bathtub, and space, like because you're the CEO, you're
Speaker 1: hiring an intern. Okay, how much of that job do
Speaker 1: they have to be able to do? What are women's expectations?
Speaker 1: Like if a man's going to be loyal, they're not
Speaker 1: going to cheat, they're gonna love you.
Speaker 3: But they may have a definition that's different.
Speaker 1: They may you may be dating they give bad text
Speaker 1: or they you may be dating someone divorced and they're
Speaker 1: always going to put their kids kids entirely first.
Speaker 3: You might feel like your second fiddle or you're a stepmom.
Speaker 1: And like whatever the so where is the where does
Speaker 1: the CEO decide who can fill that position?
Speaker 3: And how much of it?
Speaker 1: And what about Like you had if you had your
Speaker 1: last person build six of the points, this new person
Speaker 1: feels a different six, Like, how do you decide which
Speaker 1: six you want?
Speaker 3: For example?
Speaker 2: Oh wow, we're really going there today? I love it. Okay,
Speaker 2: there's no one size fits all answer. I mean, I
Speaker 2: try to give one size fits all answers because they
Speaker 2: make for a good copy. But generally we're talking about
Speaker 2: a feeling. People go for lists, but there the list
Speaker 2: they're going for ten to be the wrong list. And
Speaker 2: again I don't want to say there's one way to
Speaker 2: do it. Woman to say, I need him to be
Speaker 2: six feet tall, I need him to be colleg I
Speaker 2: need him that list. A lot of women have been
Speaker 2: dining out on that list forever. And what is that
Speaker 2: led to? Dating guys who are tall, cute, handsome, successful
Speaker 2: who treat him like shit and they feel emotionally be
Speaker 2: raffed and unseen and unimportant and small and they can't
Speaker 2: set their boundaries and they can't speak their mind, and
Speaker 2: there's a lot of tension in those relationships. So I
Speaker 2: drive people not to a specific kind of guy, I
Speaker 2: just drive I drive people to a specific type of feeling.
Speaker 2: The feeling is for it, and it's not across the
Speaker 2: board is safe, heard and understood. So we start there,
Speaker 2: Can this guy make me feel like I could be myself,
Speaker 2: let down my guard, know that he's I could trust him,
Speaker 2: that he's never going to abandon me, that he's not
Speaker 2: going to judge me, that we could repair conflict easily. Right,
Speaker 2: because a lot of women try to contort themselves to
Speaker 2: be with a certain kind of man. We want to
Speaker 2: get rid of that contortion. Right, If you're the CEO,
Speaker 2: you should not have to spend all your time walking
Speaker 2: on eggshells about what the intern thinks. So we start
Speaker 2: with the feeling of safe, heard and understood, and then
Speaker 2: we add that's the floor. Then we need to add
Speaker 2: these other things on to that, and then we ask
Speaker 2: is it necessary? So I loved your New York City
Speaker 2: apartment metaphor the trade offs, Oh, I could live closer
Speaker 2: to Central Park, but it's going to be more expensive there.
Speaker 2: Maybe if I live, you know, Park Avenue, I can
Speaker 2: go up a little bit higher and be closer to
Speaker 2: the subway. Whatever the hell it is, there's always a tradeoff.
Speaker 2: I think people tend to make the more trade off,
Speaker 2: the wrong trade offs. Men venerate youth and beauty above everything,
Speaker 2: and women venerate money and power over everything to their
Speaker 2: to their detriment. So it's not that you should stop
Speaker 2: being attracted to the things you're attracted to. It's if
Speaker 2: a guy is in the ninetieth percentile of intelligence and income,
Speaker 2: he's a pretty solid guy, right, A lot of women
Speaker 2: would look past him because, as I said, you know
Speaker 2: I make five hundred thousand and he makes two hundred thousand,
Speaker 2: and that well, together you make seven and you could
Speaker 2: have a nice life. So I think once we get
Speaker 2: away from the dick measuring contest of who makes more
Speaker 2: money and who has more power, it's how do these
Speaker 2: two people work together? It's the system you've built companies, Right,
Speaker 2: there's culture, there's a flow. So in a good marriage,
Speaker 2: there's a flow. And it's fundamentally easy. If you find
Speaker 2: you have to constantly negotiate all these little things, that
Speaker 2: relationship ship's gonna be torn apart, no matter how much
Speaker 2: you haven't come and no matter how amazing that first
Speaker 2: date was, no matter how amazing the sex is. I
Speaker 2: really work backwards from safe heard and understood, and is
Speaker 2: this easy? Because if it's not easy, why are you
Speaker 2: still doing it?
Speaker 3: How do you.
Speaker 1: Advise women to operate and protect themselves. Around the holidays.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of emotion, There's a lot of expectation, balance, stress,
Speaker 1: New Year's Eve meaning placed on things that are just days,
Speaker 1: but they have meaning for people. How do you navigate
Speaker 1: that or tell people how to navigate that.
Speaker 2: I think that I think holidays become a time of reflection.
Speaker 2: You can't avoid reflection, am I Where I want to
Speaker 2: be something about the combination of the family holiday Thanksgiving,
Speaker 2: Christmas coupled by New Year's Eve, which is often a
Speaker 2: couple's holiday where you kiss. So people kind of get
Speaker 2: in their heads around this time of year. It doesn't
Speaker 2: have to be torture. You can surround yourself with friends
Speaker 2: and distract yourself with the fact that you don't have
Speaker 2: someone that you love unconditionally, or that you're not loved unconditionally.
Speaker 2: And it could also be a motivating factor to say, hey,
Speaker 2: next year, I'm going to be more intentional about dating
Speaker 2: and the kind of partner I choose because I don't
Speaker 2: want to be in this position next year. So you
Speaker 2: do not have to be you know, you know, like
Speaker 2: the Valentine's Day thing, you know, some sort of like
Speaker 2: lonely hearts, lamenting what you don't have. You could go
Speaker 2: out and kick ass and have fun and go home
Speaker 2: with a stranger and that's perfectly great. And if that
Speaker 2: is not where you ultimately want to be, you could
Speaker 2: take steps forward to a more positive outcome because dating
Speaker 2: and relationships, we're proving it here are a skill.
Speaker 1: Or even if you're melancholy and said, which is normal
Speaker 1: and reflecting, at least turn it into something good.
Speaker 3: Like there have been people who get hurt and I'm like, okay.
Speaker 1: Well, like drink green juices, like make it a health thing,
Speaker 1: Like do something, give yourself face masks, like every day
Speaker 1: what do something where you feel like you're making this
Speaker 1: hard time meaningful. So you're kind of saying you can't
Speaker 1: wrap yourself and bubble wrap. It may be challenging, but
Speaker 1: but make it into something meaningful when you reflect.
Speaker 2: But and that makes love no different than anything else
Speaker 2: in the world.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Okay, there's a lot of there's a lot of suffering.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of loss. You know people, I know
Speaker 2: people right this very second who are going through a divorce,
Speaker 2: who're fighting cancer. I'm speaking for myself right now, are
Speaker 2: going through you know, no people going through those things.
Speaker 2: I'm not going through those things, and they have to.
Speaker 2: It's hard not to let the dark cloud of negativity win.
Speaker 2: And so I think listening to two podcasts like yours,
Speaker 2: where you have a very can do spirit, you don't
Speaker 2: let you know. You know you're tough and shit happen,
Speaker 2: so you don't let it get you down. You fight
Speaker 2: your way.
Speaker 1: It could be that could be annoying now because then
Speaker 1: you're not Yeah, I know, it's like you're always managing
Speaker 1: something and you're always like versus like actually dealing with it.
Speaker 3: So that's its own problem, that makes any sense.
Speaker 2: It happened simultaneously, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Solving something. I'm great at that. It's like you're always
Speaker 1: gonna be okay, I'm a survivor. But like it's not
Speaker 1: as it's better for people to just like be in
Speaker 1: it at least and have a feelings versus like manage it.
Speaker 2: You don't always have to do something. Holidays can be
Speaker 2: a time for rest and reflection, and the new year
Speaker 2: is gonna come no matter what. Yeah, it's it's yeah,
Speaker 2: can take an argument. I found girlfriends three years in
Speaker 2: a row over December because everybody else is like kind
Speaker 2: of shutting down. Yeah, and I was like, you know what,
Speaker 2: I'm kind of lonely and I'm not wright.
Speaker 1: I understand that too. That's funny you say that. I've
Speaker 1: heard that too, like thanks Giving and Chris. People are home,
Speaker 1: they're reflecting, they want it.
Speaker 3: It's so true.
Speaker 2: It's yeah. So sometimes if everybody's gonna dig, then you
Speaker 2: use that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the pandam was the pandemic. So amazing, awesome.
Speaker 1: Walk back to, walk back to after, walk back to
Speaker 1: the after