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Speaker 1: For nearly a century.

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Speaker 2: Dracula and the Wolfman had been seared into our cultural

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Speaker 2: consciousness by the classic Universal Studios movies, and the iconic

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Speaker 2: performances of Bela Lagosi and Lon Cheney Junior are the

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Speaker 2: reference point for any reboot. But are these classic Universal

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Speaker 2: monsters being sidelined and forgotten? The grandchildren of Bella Lagosi

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Speaker 2: and Lon Cheney join me for a spooky Arroyo Grande.

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Speaker 2: Come on, goodie, I'm Raymond Arroyo. Welcome to a Royo Grande.

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Speaker 2: Go subscribe to the show. Now turn those notifications on

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Speaker 2: so you know what's coming, and if you'd like to

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Speaker 2: support the show, visit Raymond Arroyo dot com who has

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Speaker 2: not seen the classic Universal films Dracula and the Wolfman.

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Speaker 2: Though nearly a century old, the performances of Bela Lagosi

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Speaker 2: and Lon Cheney Junior not only launched a monsters franchise

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Speaker 2: from the nineteen thirties through the nineteen sixties, but they

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Speaker 2: left a deep cultural impact on generations. Yet, when Universal

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Speaker 2: launched its Dark Universe the Monster themed attraction in Florida,

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Speaker 2: they abandoned the iconic actors that had long been the

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Speaker 2: face of the Universal Monsters Now, Lynn Lagosi and Ron

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Speaker 2: Cheney are here to talk about the legacy of their

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Speaker 2: famous grandfathers, why they still resonate today, and the decision

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Speaker 2: to hide the actors who created the Monster universe from

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Speaker 2: a new generation.

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Speaker 1: I want to ask each of you this.

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Speaker 2: I know you buried your grandfather was buried in his cape.

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Speaker 2: Tell me one of his capes. Bella Legosi was buried

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Speaker 2: in his capes. Why does that performance in Dracula endure

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Speaker 2: it today? And why was that decision made to bury

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Speaker 2: him in the case a role that he'd felt at

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Speaker 2: times locked into.

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Speaker 3: Linn Yes, I mean, in his own words, he didn't

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Speaker 3: know whether to call it a blessing or a curse,

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Speaker 3: but it You know, he never never took for granted that,

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Speaker 3: you know, that role had had given him the ability

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Speaker 3: to continue acting and even though he was type cast,

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Speaker 3: but he would that was not his request to be

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Speaker 3: buried in his cape. I mean, at the end of

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Speaker 3: his life, he thought he had been forgotten. He would

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Speaker 3: never have imagined that he is still such an icon,

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Speaker 3: a cultural icon, as he is today. But it was

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Speaker 3: that was the decision of my grandmother and my dad

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Speaker 3: to pay tribute to him. In that way. Yeah, So it's.

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Speaker 2: An incredible legacy. Who who who endures one hundred years?

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Speaker 2: And I mean, and you know your grandfather has, Ron's

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Speaker 2: great grandfather and father has. There are a few people

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Speaker 2: in American culture that have that kind of longevity. Why

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Speaker 2: does your grandfather's role in the Wolfman and all of

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Speaker 2: the various iterations he played afterward, why does that predominate

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Speaker 2: in the popular imagination all this time later on?

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Speaker 4: I think his performance showed a dual nature and man

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Speaker 4: that we can be, you know, sympathetic and compassionate and

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Speaker 4: then also be the other way and ferocious.

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Speaker 5: And the way he played.

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Speaker 4: It was he knew it was coming.

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Speaker 5: He didn't want to.

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Speaker 4: He would killed me and take me out. I do

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Speaker 4: a change of care, but stop me because I know

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Speaker 4: what I'm capable of doing. And I struck a note

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Speaker 4: with a lot of people like we're capable of being

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Speaker 4: both personalities sometimes. But he always played it sympathetically. So

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Speaker 4: most of the people that I hear is like, oh

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Speaker 4: my god, I.

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Speaker 5: Felt so sorry for him.

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Speaker 4: I wanted to help him, you know, I want to

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Speaker 4: to the screen and give him a hug and try

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Speaker 4: to put him in.

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Speaker 1: His hag and help the poor guy right, And.

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Speaker 4: I mean he made it come across that way. And

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Speaker 4: I think with that Roland in Lenny, he touched that

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Speaker 4: sympathetic chord in us that we all can.

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Speaker 2: Relate to, which begs the question I'm going to start

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Speaker 2: with you, Ron, why did Universal decide to exclude your

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Speaker 2: grandfather's contribution to the prototype of the character of the

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Speaker 2: Wolfman from that monster's unchained attraction in Florida. I mean

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Speaker 2: everything up to this time with Universal, it was that face,

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Speaker 2: that wolfman, that was always the image that we saw.

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Speaker 4: I wonder myself why I don't understand that I've tried

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Speaker 4: to work with him. I am under in an agreement

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Speaker 4: with them because I try to work with them. They

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Speaker 4: know that I've always been open to that type of thing.

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Speaker 4: But I think that people that run it now nothing

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Speaker 4: against them. It's a newer generation. They're not just familiar

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Speaker 4: with that. So I'm not going to throw all the

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Speaker 4: blame on Universal. I think you have different companies own it,

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Speaker 4: and different people run it at different times, and they

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Speaker 4: really don't know the history, and I think taking the

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Speaker 4: characters and modifying also they don't have to pay royalties

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Speaker 4: on them. Also on products and things of that nature.

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Speaker 4: So I'm sure that plays into it, and I don't know.

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Speaker 4: All I can say is I did a recent campaign

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Speaker 4: with Legendary Comics and it's following. It was a graphic

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Speaker 4: novel and it followed the original books. But they did

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Speaker 4: one with lynn On Baylor, Lagosi, Dracula, and Carlaw with

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Speaker 4: the original book their adaptations from the original, but instead

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Speaker 4: of doing anything else, they didn't go and create a

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Speaker 4: new character. They actually they kind of did Baylor. They

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Speaker 4: used his image because those rights in the book, and

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Speaker 4: it makes perfect sense. And then they did Boris. Of

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Speaker 4: course they can't do the bulls because there's a certain copyrights.

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Speaker 4: You can't do flathead and all those scars and whatnot,

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Speaker 4: but they used Boris's face as it was depicted in

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Speaker 4: the novel.

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Speaker 5: But it's Boris and it was cool.

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Speaker 4: And then with Me, which was just recent, they did

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Speaker 4: the Phantom of the Opera and everything's as depicted from

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Speaker 4: Gostel LaRue's novel except for the Fantom. They didn't want

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Speaker 4: to go through with it, and I was so happy

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Speaker 4: that they chose not to create their own version of it.

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Speaker 4: And I know Robert that works there, and I know

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Speaker 4: Lind's he wanted the classic version goes. The only one

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Speaker 4: we had to add was, you know, pay people. Then

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Speaker 4: they all sold out, every one of them. So if

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Speaker 4: that doesn't say anything about what the fans loved, everyone

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Speaker 4: that the kickstart campaigns they did went over their projected amount.

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Speaker 4: I was really going to ask for that much they did,

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Speaker 4: and they did a marvelous job. But I think it

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Speaker 4: showed the dedication of the fans and the love of horror,

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Speaker 4: and they're the best.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I get fans contact us all the time. You know,

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Speaker 3: when there's a project that involves Dracula that doesn't feature Bailugosi,

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Speaker 3: you know, why is that happening? We want you know,

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Speaker 3: we want the Bila. And to speak to what Ron

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Speaker 3: was saying, the licensees that we work with, we work

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Speaker 3: with them specifically because they appreciate and respect the original

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Speaker 3: classic monsters and they know that that's who their customers are.

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Speaker 3: They want the original. They don't want somebody that kind

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Speaker 3: of looks like bail Logosi and you know it is him,

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Speaker 3: but it kind of it isn't exactly him. They don't

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Speaker 3: want that.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what I mean, That's what threw me off

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Speaker 2: when I saw this Monster's unchained attraction in Florida, which

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Speaker 2: is an incredible attraction. I mean it's still they've got

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Speaker 2: all these animatronic figures and Draculas flying around. But I

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Speaker 2: have to say, when you're branding it as a Universal

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Speaker 2: Dark Dark Universe, you expect the characters.

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Speaker 1: You know from the movie. You don't want to see

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Speaker 1: something else.

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Speaker 2: And I have to say, all these characters are slightly off,

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Speaker 2: you know, the particularly the Dracula, and as I said earlier,

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Speaker 2: he looks nothing like the Dracula in the book. He

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Speaker 2: looks like a knockoff of Bela Lagosi. Is that copyright infringement?

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Speaker 3: You know, there's there's a there's you know, kind of

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Speaker 3: a gray area. I mean, the character Dracula's in the

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Speaker 3: public domain, the book is in the Bramstalker's novels in

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Speaker 3: the public domain. We own the rights to bail A

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Speaker 3: Gosi's name and likeness. When Universal uses Beyla in any

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Speaker 3: other way other than promoting the film, they have to

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Speaker 3: have a license from us. And so I, like Ron said,

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Speaker 3: you know a lot of the people I want to

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Speaker 3: feel that work there or making the decision decisions maybe

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Speaker 3: just don't know the history or understand the fan base,

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Speaker 3: or you know how important it is at a minimum

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Speaker 3: at the theme park to have paid tribute to them

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Speaker 3: in some way, whether it was you know, a little

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Speaker 3: museum or statues or something so that the new versions

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Speaker 3: of the monsters made more sense. So, you know, while

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Speaker 3: there's you know a large number of people visiting the park,

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Speaker 3: I think will enjoy it. Like you said, it's so

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Speaker 3: well done. You know, people who appreciate history and value

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Speaker 3: those original performances. And because it built their studio, at

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Speaker 3: least their horror franchise, it's really a disappointment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it saved them from bankruptcy.

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Speaker 2: I mean it saved a Universal at a time when

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Speaker 2: the whole country was about to slide into depression. So

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Speaker 2: it's rather a remarkable thing. But more than that, go

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Speaker 2: to any of the streaming services right now. You'll see

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Speaker 2: Lan you know Lan Cheney Junior, you see Bela Lugosi,

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Speaker 2: you see Boris Karloff. And there've been probably hundreds of

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Speaker 2: movies knockoffs of these movies made.

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Speaker 1: Those are still the classics.

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Speaker 2: So it's like Shakespeare if you say, well this is

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Speaker 2: the original, I don't know why Universal when they own

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Speaker 2: all that IP wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: Say we're going to take this to a new generation.

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Speaker 2: Went throughout my childhood, it was always these depictions, these actors,

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Speaker 2: faces of that performance that were carried clear into the

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Speaker 2: seventies eighties. Really this went on to the two thousands.

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Speaker 4: Guys, absolutely, and there's an innocence about them as well.

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Speaker 4: And my grandfather said, you know, the best monsters were

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Speaker 4: played for sympathy. You know that that they resonated with

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Speaker 4: the audience. And I think people have always and I'm

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Speaker 4: sure Lynn has heard that. However they depicted those roles

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Speaker 4: and their characterizations, it just brought fans and it was

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Speaker 4: their either sympathy for or the allurement or whatever it was.

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Speaker 4: There was something they act or brought to the role

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Speaker 4: to make an iconic. Because there's been lots of pictures

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Speaker 4: or lots, but there's those few iconic ones. Whether it's makeup.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, that's a tough one. And I think probably

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Speaker 4: sometimes they do classics and mix them with them, and

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Speaker 4: that's what I really don't like. I wish they, honestly, Lynn,

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Speaker 4: and if we could do just classics, and they tried,

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Speaker 4: and I've tried to convince them a few times, and

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Speaker 4: you stick with your class and compare the difference. But

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Speaker 4: you know that impolves us and maybe they don't want to,

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Speaker 4: or maybe they don't have several I don't know, but

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Speaker 4: whatever the reason is, I think the fans will testify

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Speaker 4: to the iconic characters, just like and other characters, and

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Speaker 4: you know, you identify the studio with those.

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Speaker 5: Why would you change them?

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Speaker 4: Doesn't make sense to me.

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Speaker 1: Lynn, You want to say, oh, I just think that.

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Speaker 3: You know, over the years, we have worked with Universal

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Speaker 3: for special events at their parks in both in Florida

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Speaker 3: and in Los Angeles, so you know there has been

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Speaker 3: some element of keeping that alive, but really not not

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Speaker 3: that much, you know that you would think. But you

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Speaker 3: know what's nice is there's actors that play Dracula at Universal,

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Speaker 3: and many of them have contacted us to say how

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Speaker 3: fun it is and that they obviously they've studied Beyla,

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Speaker 3: so they're not just being a generic Dracula. They really

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Speaker 3: want to portray Bayla as they walk around the park,

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Speaker 3: you know, justice Dracula.

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Speaker 2: Well tell me tell me, just because I don't know,

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Speaker 2: are there any dolls or figurines at the new park

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Speaker 2: that they've licensed through you all?

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Speaker 3: You know, I've had I've had fans send pictures of

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Speaker 3: the shop and that, and uh, yeah there are and

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Speaker 3: I have to look into.

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Speaker 1: That because yeah, well you better.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if I'm going, I haven't been there yet,

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Speaker 2: but I'm planning on going because I've seen the images

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Speaker 2: in the video of the attraction. But my question is,

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Speaker 2: if I go, I inevitably want to have a Bela

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Speaker 2: Lagosi or a Lone Cheney junior wolf man in Dracula.

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Speaker 1: I don't want a generic Dracula or well.

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Speaker 3: Listen, one of our good friends, who's an artist who

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Speaker 3: is a consultant for our business on Lagos's likeness, recently

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Speaker 3: went and visited and he forgot his hat, his you know,

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Speaker 3: his cap, and so he just wanted a cool Dracula

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Speaker 3: hat you know, or something.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: He ended up getting some thing. But it really I

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Speaker 3: just think you will we could have done better than that.

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Speaker 1: I'll say, Ron, you wanted to add anything before we

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Speaker 1: move on.

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Speaker 4: Well, I haven't been to you. I haven't been there yet.

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Speaker 4: I heard it's have mixed feeling. In fact, I think

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Speaker 4: what started interview with you as a fan had gone

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Speaker 4: and expressed his displeasure with the change, and I said, Hey,

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Speaker 4: that was eloquently written. Can I use some of this,

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Speaker 4: you know? And I send it to Universal. So I

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Speaker 4: don't know how it came through, but I think it started.

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Speaker 4: I can't remember his name right off him. But there's

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Speaker 4: a place for both. I understand Universal, understand what they're doing,

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Speaker 4: but there seems.

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Speaker 2: But Ron, I'm going to stop you for a second.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to stop you for a second. I don't

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Speaker 2: understand as a fan with no skin in this game. Okay,

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Speaker 2: if I'm doing a Universal Monsters attraction, the public wants

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Speaker 2: to see the Universal Monsters.

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Speaker 1: They know. Now, Look, if there's some.

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Speaker 2: Recent iteration of the movie that they think works, fine,

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Speaker 2: put that monster out there. But none of these monsters

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Speaker 2: are from a recent iteration. They're all knockoffs of nineteen

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Speaker 2: thirty one and nineteen forty one.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I wouldn't.

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Speaker 4: I wish we could be forefront and center because that's

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Speaker 4: always what I've been trying to do, is preserve and perpetuate,

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Speaker 4: And it's almost like they're battling against me to do

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Speaker 4: that when I think what we could bring to the

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Speaker 4: table would make it so much stronger. I don't understand

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Speaker 4: their their philosophy. Other than it's money, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 4: let's space it. I think that's what comes down because

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Speaker 4: they would have to actually work with this and get

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Speaker 4: approvals to do that. And you know, the funny thing

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Speaker 4: is when the actual artists that do these things, when

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Speaker 4: they get to work directly with this, they love it

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Speaker 4: because their heart is in it.

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Speaker 5: So is ours.

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Speaker 4: When you have executives, their heart isn't in it as much.

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Speaker 4: It's about how many, you know, people we can get through,

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Speaker 4: like any business. I think maybe that's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 5: It's business and.

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Speaker 1: I know, but if you can enter right, No, but is.

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Speaker 4: It better for them financial? I guess only their accountants

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Speaker 4: will know, probably because I can you know, see I know.

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Speaker 2: But Lynn, from an audience perspective, if you're read, if

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Speaker 2: you're building a Harry Potter attraction, you're putting the actors

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Speaker 2: from Harry Potter in the attraction here with AI. You

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Speaker 2: could put Bella Lagosi in Castle Dracula and ron Elan

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Speaker 2: Cheney around the corner.

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Speaker 3: Your reaction, Oh, I absolutely agree with you. I mean

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Speaker 3: I can't, I don't. I don't understand it. I mean

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Speaker 3: I do understand a place for other interpretations or maybe

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Speaker 3: a more modernized version. Fine, but as long as that

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Speaker 3: progression is there would be more interested to have experienced

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Speaker 3: the originals and then you know, also have the others. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I really I do have a hard time understanding it.

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Speaker 3: I mean, if you go to any of like the

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Speaker 3: classic monster websites, including those either run by or approved

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Speaker 3: by Universal, they have the original monsters there.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, lady, yes yes they do. Ron I'll give

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Speaker 2: you the last word on this.

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Speaker 4: Well, all I can say is an example is you know,

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Speaker 4: and I was pretty frustrated with not much I could do,

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Speaker 4: not my business decision. But they had been trying to

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Speaker 4: tear down Stage twenty eight at Universal and Hollywood forever

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Speaker 4: because but people stood up to it because it was

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Speaker 4: still functioning working stage. And I went in there, and

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Speaker 4: you walk in there, it's like, oh my god, the

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Speaker 4: Phantom of the opicer that still had the building percentum.

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Speaker 4: I mean it was. It was amazing. And they still

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Speaker 4: filmed in there and used it. And I came in.

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Speaker 4: They asked me to use Lawn Cheney's name and rename

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Speaker 4: the streets in Universal and I'm like, oh, this is awesome,

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Speaker 4: you know, lawn Cheney Drive. And he goes right, by

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Speaker 4: stage twenty eight and probably with that, so I'm all excited,

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Speaker 4: went to the dedication and everything, and that's what we

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Speaker 4: went in there for a second time.

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Speaker 5: But then I think.

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Speaker 4: Two years a few years later, they tore it down,

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Speaker 4: the piece of history. They tore it to the ground

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Speaker 4: and put a ride in there. So if that doesn't

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Speaker 4: give you, I mean, yeah, it was taking up some space,

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Speaker 4: but it's two rides. Now I think it's a Pokemon.

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Speaker 4: Somebody told me. Now I could be.

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Speaker 3: There was a scene from Dracula filmed there on the balcony.

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Speaker 3: Scene in the opera was filmed there.

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Speaker 1: It was a studio twentyth grade scene.

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Speaker 4: And you know, it's a part of history, and I

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Speaker 4: think both lenn and I are part of trying to

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Speaker 4: preserve history, not tear you can get it, you can't

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Speaker 4: once it's going well.

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Speaker 2: You know, look, part of the conceit of this show

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Speaker 2: is we talk about culture and preserving it, and this

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Speaker 2: is a piece of American culture. And I would argue

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Speaker 2: one of the foundational pillars of the movie industry, and

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Speaker 2: certainly the first crossover universe where you had a universe

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Speaker 2: of reoccurring characters that stood alone and then came together

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Speaker 2: universal coined that and your grandparents and were really at

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Speaker 2: the heart of that.

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Speaker 1: I am Bracula Bella Blasco.

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Speaker 2: Your grandfather was a Hungarian war veteran. Why did he

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Speaker 2: travel to the United States?

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Speaker 1: Initially?

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Speaker 3: Oh, initially he was very active politically in organizing one

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Speaker 3: of the first trade union of actors in Hungary, and

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Speaker 3: with the political turmoil at the time, he ended up

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Speaker 3: on the wrong side and on a black list, a

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Speaker 3: death list, and had to flee Hungary, you know, under

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Speaker 3: thread of death and went to Vienna and then onto

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Speaker 3: Berlin and made films there. But that's originally why he

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Speaker 3: left Hungary. He left a successful stage career there and

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Speaker 3: film career because he was very passionate about the actors'

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Speaker 3: rights and you know, unfortunately got on the wrong side

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Speaker 3: of a current regime at the time. But anyway, he came,

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Speaker 3: you know, from Berlin too, through New Orleans and immigrated

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Speaker 3: into the United States.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that New Orleans collection.

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Speaker 2: Tell me about the Tell me about his the connection

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Speaker 2: between that Berlin stop and his style of acting. Was

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Speaker 2: he part of that impressionist German impressionism of the time.

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Speaker 3: Well, he was definitely there at that time, and actually

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Speaker 3: worked with Carl Freud again in Hollywood in a later film,

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Speaker 3: so he definitely was in that mix. You know. I

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Speaker 3: think it was quite a shock to his system to

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Speaker 3: come from very traditional Hungarian you know culture to Berlin

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Speaker 3: in the nineteen twenties when it was you know, pretty

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Speaker 3: permissive and that, and I think he, you know, probably

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Speaker 3: enjoyed it to some extent. But yeah, I think the

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Speaker 3: style of acting and just the influence of the time

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Speaker 3: did you know, shape him, although he had already crafted

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Speaker 3: his style of acting on the stage and brought it

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Speaker 3: with him, you know, to the United States and to film.

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Speaker 2: The remarkable thing to me he gets this role in

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Speaker 2: Red Poppy, which was his first Broadway role, and he

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Speaker 2: really can't speak English. How was it possible that he

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Speaker 2: did he performed on the Broadway stage.

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Speaker 1: I guess he just learned it phonetically.

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Speaker 3: He did for that for that play, he did learn

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Speaker 3: it phonetically. He the director and producers hired a coach

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Speaker 3: for him. They practiced every night in the hotel, and

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Speaker 3: then he went on stage and he did such a

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Speaker 3: good job. Didn't know that he did not speak English,

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Speaker 3: But soon after that he became fluent in the language.

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Speaker 3: There have been some rumors that he learned his lines

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Speaker 3: for Dracula phonetically, and that is not true.

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Speaker 1: That's not true. He had already spoken English by that point.

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Speaker 2: Now he first is Dracula on Broadway.

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Speaker 1: What did he learn?

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Speaker 2: Did he leave anything or tell your family anything of

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Speaker 2: what he learned in that performance that he brought to

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Speaker 2: the later film.

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Speaker 3: Well, he definitely created his unique characterization of Count Dracula

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Speaker 3: on the stage and brought it to the film. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: I never met my grandfather and he was quite a

387
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Speaker 3: bit of an older father to my dad, and so

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Speaker 3: they didn't talk about things like that. Why I wish.

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Speaker 3: I wish they did, so that we would have those stories,

390
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Speaker 3: you know, from my grandfather to my father. But no,

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Speaker 3: I think that he spent his life. He wasn't class

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Speaker 3: trained in Hungary. He he had to, you know, really

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Speaker 3: fight and learn and you know, move up in the

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Speaker 3: theater system there. And so I think by the time

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Speaker 3: he got to New York and he did a lot

396
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Speaker 3: of Hungarian language stage plays, when the role of Dracula

397
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Speaker 3: came to him, I think he had already had his style.

398
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Speaker 3: It was just that, you know. My personal feelings is

399
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Speaker 3: that he was born to play Dracula, not only the

400
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Speaker 3: area of the world that he was born in, the

401
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 3: culture that he was familiar with, you know, the accent

402
00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 3: and just whatever that magnetism that zudes from him that

403
00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 3: he created in that role, that is, you know, imitated

404
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:53,479
Speaker 3: or inspired you know, other roles of Dracula since then.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Ron, you want to add something.

406
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Speaker 4: Yeah, I just was listening to Lynn. I'm like, and

407
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Speaker 4: he had amazing stage presence. Yeah, imagine who was he?

408
00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 4: He was like six 'y three, wasn't.

409
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 3: Helln I think six' One, Okay, yeah.

410
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 4: You know he HAD i don't think people knew, it

411
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 4: Didn't they have piercing blue, eyes.

412
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Speaker 5: Very handsome man and agent.

413
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Speaker 3: An incredible baritone.

414
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Speaker 4: Voice yeah, yeah and the voice you know.

415
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 3: Yeh he definitely commanded the. Stage.

416
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well when you read the.

417
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Speaker 2: REVIEWS i went back and read some of the early

418
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Speaker 2: reviews and they talk, about you, know women swooning and

419
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: passing out when he comes on. Stage he was kind

420
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Speaker 2: of a sex. SYMBOL i, mean he did have that

421
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 2: seductive quality that you see in the. Film but you

422
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,160
Speaker 2: can imagine this on stage eight times a, week, RIGHT i.

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Speaker 3: Mean, today still, TODAY i think he has as many

424
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Speaker 3: or more women fans as.

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Speaker 5: Men oh, yeah not.

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Speaker 2: Bad But, ron the curious thing is When universal goes

427
00:24:56,000 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 2: to Make dracula in nineteen thirty One Bela, lugosi it

428
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: was not their first choice for the.

429
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Speaker 1: Role it was somebody closer to your.

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Speaker 6: Family ron suggested that he would have Played, dracula but

431
00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 6: unfortunately passed away in nineteen thirty after his one and

432
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Speaker 6: only talking, Film.

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Speaker 4: So that, OPPORTUNITY i, know it's been. RUMORED i did

434
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:24,280
Speaker 4: find some piece of paper with no true identifying mark on,

435
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 4: it but was in a lot of My universal files

436
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 4: about he was tabbed to play that.

437
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,360
Speaker 1: Role and it isn't that? Something, Yeah, well back.

438
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,400
Speaker 4: To nineteen twenty, seven he Did London After, midnight which

439
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 4: was kind of that same character That brams.

440
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 5: Created.

441
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 2: Ron let's talk about your great Grandfather Lon cheney first

442
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,719
Speaker 2: in the teens into the. Twenties he's really the first

443
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,760
Speaker 2: actor who he's also a makeup.

444
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: Artist where did he learn that? Craft do we?

445
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:01,080
Speaker 6: Know?

446
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 4: Well, really you, know he's not known as much for

447
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,560
Speaker 4: his stage career because they most people know about his stage.

448
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 4: Careers he was in la and they had this catastrophic

449
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 4: event with my great grandmother and it made him go into.

450
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 4: Film otherwise he would have stayed on, stage but he

451
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 4: had already that. Event, well she attempted suicide when he

452
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 4: was performing with the stage production Of Colbyn dill In

453
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 4: la and kind of ended his career and her career as.

454
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 4: Well so it was kind of a turning point in the.

455
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 5: Family that was not.

456
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 4: A good, thing but it also propelled him into film

457
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 4: because he had find a new. Occupation and he told

458
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 4: her he would quit this stage And i'll find something.

459
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 4: Else and he had to find a new career and

460
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,240
Speaker 4: a lot of the stage actors at that time had

461
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:58,200
Speaker 4: come off of the. Stage he had worked with them

462
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 4: Before Fatty. ARABUK i mean there was a lot of.

463
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 4: Them he worked With Leo, moran just a lot of

464
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 4: stage actors that would go get these film work on

465
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,199
Speaker 4: these films for extra, money but then established things and

466
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 4: these were friends of. His so he came over and

467
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 4: one of the things that people don't, know just BEFORE

468
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 4: i move out the, stage he was on stage for

469
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,960
Speaker 4: a Bat Let's see started in nineteen oh, two so

470
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 4: his first film credit was nineteen, thirteen so he was

471
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 4: eleven years on. Stage but he wasn't a classical stage

472
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 4: actor in the sense that you, know they would play

473
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 4: a town in Or.

474
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 5: New york Or chicago or big.

475
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 4: Cities he was a barnstorming, vaudevillian which from nineteen oh

476
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 4: two all the way to nineteen eleven he was Like Johnny,

477
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 4: Cash i've been everywhere.

478
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 5: Man because he was spent one and two nights.

479
00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:00,680
Speaker 4: STANDS a long stint would be maybe a week at

480
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 4: a park because this is when it was Still indian

481
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 4: territory In, iowa out in the middle of.

482
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 5: Nowhere so not only did he develop his.

483
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 4: Acting, skills but he had to play a lot of,

484
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,879
Speaker 4: characters which he really enjoyed. PLAYING i, mean that's what

485
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 4: he really found a lot of.

486
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 5: Fun in.

487
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,679
Speaker 2: Doing for, Him, yeah, well he later became known as

488
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 2: The man of A Thousand faces because of his ability

489
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:36,360
Speaker 2: to transform himself on. Film did he pick that up from?

490
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:38,200
Speaker 2: Somebody did he apprentice with makeup?

491
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: Artists what? Happened or did he just pick it up

492
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: on the?

493
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 5: Road he, WELL.

494
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 4: I guess you, know have to go back to his

495
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 4: early childhood because he was born of deaf mute, parents

496
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 4: and so his first ability to communicate was pantomime and sign.

497
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,840
Speaker 4: Language he didn't speak till he was almost four years

498
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:03,800
Speaker 4: old and start having formal because he grew up with you,

499
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 4: know in a deaf community and. Family he was the first,

500
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 4: coda let's, say are Certain and he learned a lot

501
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 4: of expression and, communication you, know from. That and when

502
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 4: he found the stage because he worked as a property,

503
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 4: boy his brother got him a job. There and the

504
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 4: second he saw the actors changing characters and becoming somebody

505
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 4: different each, night he, said you, know he fell in

506
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 4: love with the. Stage AND i think just Like Baili Legsingboors,

507
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 4: carloff they all did stage, first even my grandfather who,

508
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 4: said you, know the really true mark of a great

509
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 4: actor is when they can perform on stage.

510
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 5: First and all of these men came from stage.

511
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 2: Backgrounds RON i found something that your great, Grandfather Lawn

512
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:57,240
Speaker 2: Cheney senior. Wrote he, SAID i wanted to remind people

513
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 2: that the lowest types of humanity may have within them

514
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: the capacity for supreme self. Sacrificed the dwarfed misshape and

515
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:12,440
Speaker 2: beggar of the streets may have the noblest. Ideals how

516
00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,960
Speaker 2: did his personal life you mentioned he had two deaf,

517
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 2: Parents how did that shape his artistic? Choices once he

518
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 2: came to, film.

519
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 4: He was shaped by his parents very. Deeply his father

520
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 4: was a. Barber he worked for thirty years as a head, barber,

521
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 4: headchair he, learned AND i, mean family has an interesting,

522
00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,480
Speaker 4: history that's for, sure but most become that side of our,

523
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 4: family which was The. Kennedys they formed schools for the

524
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 4: deaf in eighteen sixty and in eighteen seventy three In

525
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 4: kansas And, colorado so they had the first schools for the.

526
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 4: Death so kind of started. There and you, know people

527
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 4: would ridicule a handicap and we still, DO i, mean

528
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,120
Speaker 4: but you, know it was even worse than you, know

529
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 4: like everything, else we've.

530
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 5: Evolved but.

531
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 4: He saw that his father was known as the millionaire

532
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,760
Speaker 4: barber because he Cut stratton's hair and he was struck.

533
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 4: Gold but he was also known around town Dummy. Cheney

534
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 4: so he grew up with that in Some, corman and

535
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 4: it kind of built, THIS i don't, know a little

536
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 4: anger in, him you. Know and he saw empathy in,

537
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 4: people AND i think his roles always reflected that, Almost.

538
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 2: Yeah that in The, phantom in The, HUNCHBACK i, mean

539
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 2: and these are silent, movies and you see the.

540
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:46,200
Speaker 1: Great humanity he brought to those. Characters that continue. Today.

541
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 4: Absolutely you, know people still are blown away by. It

542
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 4: i've been to a number of screenings of The phantom

543
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 4: this year because it's one hundredth, anniversary AND i mean.

544
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 5: They're still selling. Out you, know it's just. Amazing.

545
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, well and it's the.

546
00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: HEART i think it's the heart he brought as an,

547
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 2: actor beyond the, makeup which is so, incredible but beyond,

548
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 2: that the deep sympathy for these characters that he brought

549
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 2: to them in the silent era with no words is

550
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 2: an incredible.

551
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 1: THING a real.

552
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 4: Talent he knew how to emote that feeling for, people

553
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 4: and one of his quotes was, about you, know you

554
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 4: don't have TO i think it was to Marry philbhen

555
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 4: and the thing you don't have to cry real tears

556
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 4: or might even Been Patsy Ruth. Miller she, said it

557
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 4: isn't about you getting into the emotion and playing, it

558
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,400
Speaker 4: which is part of, it, certainly but you have to

559
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 4: make the audience feel. IT i can't do, that you,

560
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,280
Speaker 4: know you haven't. Connect and that's what makes a difference

561
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 4: of a wonderful actor when they connect to their. Audience

562
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,360
Speaker 4: and he learned on stage.

563
00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,959
Speaker 2: Ron BEFORE i go back To, lynn tell, me how

564
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:07,800
Speaker 2: Did Long Cheney senior that example shape your? FATHER i imagine

565
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 2: that's why he pursued decided he wanted to be an

566
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: actor himself after seeing this iconic figure in the.

567
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 4: Family, Well Long senior was my great, grandfather but he

568
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 4: didn't want his son to go into the. Business he

569
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 4: was against it because even though you hear of all

570
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 4: of his successes at the, end and you still remember.

571
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 5: These, movies.

572
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 4: He had to persevere through so, much so many hard,

573
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 4: times so many times all sounds glorious. Now they went

574
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 4: broke on the, Road they had no. Money they were like,

575
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 4: vagabonds constantly trying to get to the next down to

576
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 4: get enough money to get back, home and stranded a

577
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,280
Speaker 4: number of. Times AND i took. Him he was At

578
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 4: universal nineteen. Thirteen the first time he got noticed was

579
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 4: in nineteen, seventeen and he had already done one hundred

580
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 4: and So i'm on, films but nobody knew who he

581
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 4: was because he played all these different characters all the.

582
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 5: Time he wasn't very rarely the.

583
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:12,560
Speaker 4: Lead but then people started noticing his changing, characters and

584
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 4: then he'd started becoming in. Demand and it wasn't until

585
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 4: his film was the penalty that he overheard the director

586
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 4: and the producer talking about.

587
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:25,200
Speaker 5: How'd you get?

588
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 4: Changing and he, said would you get him for? Me

589
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:30,760
Speaker 4: and what did it cause us to do this? Production

590
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 4: it's like five hundred a. Week he, goes you got

591
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 4: him for five hundred a, week AND i mean at that,

592
00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 4: TIME i mean even, then because he was as sending

593
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 4: up the ladder at that time.

594
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 5: He overheard.

595
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,879
Speaker 4: It he, SAID i never used that against, people BUT

596
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 4: i never really had a sense of my own. Value

597
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,440
Speaker 4: but it made me understand THAT i brought more value

598
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 4: with my art that people wanted to.

599
00:34:55,120 --> 00:35:00,680
Speaker 2: See And i'm going to get back To launchaining and

600
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 2: of course his Great you're really the you, know one

601
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 2: of the families that you have the father and the

602
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,560
Speaker 2: son who are part of These Universal monsters and iconically

603
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 2: created so many incredible.

604
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:13,880
Speaker 1: Characters But, LINA i want to get.

605
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:16,960
Speaker 2: Back To Bella, lagosi who if it wasn't For, lugosi

606
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 2: this Universal i'll call it a, franchise The Universal monsters

607
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,440
Speaker 2: franchise would never have taken off in the nineteen. Thirties

608
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:31,240
Speaker 2: so in nineteen thirty, One english is obviously not his first.

609
00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: Language how did he Approach tracula the. Film how did

610
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 2: that come to? BE i, know he wasn't paid what

611
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 2: he was worth, either.

612
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 3: Right, well you, know at the, TIME i think why they,

613
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 3: hesitated you, know casting him for the role was because

614
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 3: he basically was coming from the. Stage he was unknown In,

615
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:57,040
Speaker 3: hollywood you, know for the most, part And universal was,

616
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 3: struggling AND i think they knew that this film needed

617
00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:05,080
Speaker 3: to have star power and needed to be. Successful and

618
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,920
Speaker 3: even though you, know people who Reviewed bail on stage

619
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:12,760
Speaker 3: and he was playing the role on stage In Los

620
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,240
Speaker 3: angeles And San francisco when they were you, know deciding

621
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,920
Speaker 3: who to cast as the. Role SO i think most

622
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,640
Speaker 3: people around him and he himself thought that he was

623
00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 3: the natural pick for the, role but he did have

624
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 3: to fight for, it AND i think eventually a contingent

625
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 3: Of universal executives saw him in the play and then

626
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 3: brought him down for the the you, know interview and.

627
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:41,480
Speaker 3: Audition but it's you, know been told that Maybe universal

628
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 3: held back on that decision to build tension in the,

629
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 3: press to get people, curious to get bring publicity to,

630
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:50,480
Speaker 3: film who's going to be, Cast who's going to be

631
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:54,400
Speaker 3: cast until they finally announced. Him but you, know he

632
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 3: had established that role and he really brought his portrayal

633
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 3: from the stage directly to the, screen and so it

634
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 3: was an easy transition for. Him although you, know at that,

635
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,040
Speaker 3: time a lot of people looking back now look at

636
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,320
Speaker 3: the film and say it almost looks like a film

637
00:37:12,400 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 3: stage play the way that the scenes were shot and,

638
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 3: That AND i think that's that's because it was an,

639
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 3: early you, know sound talking horror film and he was

640
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 3: bringing his performance from the. Stage listen to, them.

641
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 5: She the, nie.

642
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:38,759
Speaker 3: What's? Amused he could lam.

643
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,799
Speaker 2: ME i read somewhere where he said the director helped

644
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 2: him gauge the, performance dial it back a bit that you,

645
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 2: know he so the showiness that he had on, stage

646
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:52,920
Speaker 2: he actually pulled some of that. Back but you have to,

647
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 2: realize these, actors it's not like actors today who are

648
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 2: familiar looking at themselves and looking at their image and

649
00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: hearing their. Voice this is a whole new world for

650
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 2: these people in the nineteen thirties and.

651
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 3: TWENTIES i, know he told one of his best friends

652
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 3: didn't he didn't want to ever see his films because

653
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 3: he was such a perfectionist, that you, know to see,

654
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,920
Speaker 3: it he would just criticize. Himself he didn't want to

655
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:18,919
Speaker 3: see what he could have, thought he could have done,

656
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,120
Speaker 3: Better so he really didn't go to his own.

657
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 2: Films, wow when you watch the movie, today AND i

658
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 2: just watched, it his approach is. Slow there are a

659
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 2: lot of, pauses pregnant pauses that he. Fills you, know

660
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 2: was that because of the unfamiliarity with the. Language was

661
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 2: that an intentional? Choice what do you think that? Was

662
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 2: as you watch?

663
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,479
Speaker 3: IT i AS i watch, IT i, MEAN i can't,

664
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,440
Speaker 3: say you, know but you, know he went on to

665
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,840
Speaker 3: play other roles and that was his, style AND i

666
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:57,359
Speaker 3: think it was it was that style that was maybe

667
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:00,360
Speaker 3: made of those pregnant, pauses maybe that were. Intrigued you,

668
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 3: know people listened to, him people paid attention and his,

669
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: voice SO i think That i'm not sure that it was.

670
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 3: INTENTIONAL i think it was his, style but it certainly

671
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 3: served him. Well and of, course now when people Imitate,

672
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,120
Speaker 3: dracula even though they don't know they're imitating By, lugosi

673
00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 3: he Is, dracula so they're imitating that voice in that.

674
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 2: Style, well and when you read the, book WHICH i

675
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,399
Speaker 2: did not long, Ago dracula is very different on those

676
00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 2: pages than the character your great grandfather.

677
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: CREATED i, mean he is or your.

678
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 2: Grandfather, rather he is an entirely different creature with the

679
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: slick back hair and the aristocratic. Bearing in, fact the

680
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,720
Speaker 2: book says he's a little disheveled and had a mustache

681
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 2: closer to that Nos feratu movie we just. SAW i

682
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 2: thought was horrible by the way it lacked all the

683
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:57,120
Speaker 2: elegance That Bela lugosi brought to the. World how did

684
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 2: that come to define the, character if you, will in

685
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 2: the in the minds of the.

686
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 3: Public oh, WELL i think that, that you know that

687
00:40:04,560 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 3: how he Portrayed dracula's this debonair seductive evil walking among

688
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 3: us is what people attracted them to his, role you,

689
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 3: know and what was so powerful that it's still he's

690
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 3: still popular. Today And dracula portrayed or of any vampire that, can,

691
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 3: uh you, know the, sexiness the, seduction the human. Visage

692
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 3: you know that that is for whatever, reason that is

693
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 3: SCARIER i think to people than a monstrous face because

694
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:52,560
Speaker 3: you don't know what's. Coming.

695
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it's that seductive power of evil that he brought.

696
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 2: Out and when you look at all the actors who

697
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 2: portrayed vampires really, Successfully.

698
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:05,520
Speaker 1: Frank langela And Tom, CRUISE.

699
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 2: I, mean when you look at those, actors they all

700
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 2: really are knockoffs A Bela, lugosi let's face.

701
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 3: It, YEAH i, MEAN i don't think anyone can help

702
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 3: but being inspired by, that whatever twist they put on

703
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 3: the role and bring their own. Interpretation it was such

704
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 3: a powerful performance and so unique for the, time, iconic.

705
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 2: Iconic, well AND i Forgot Christopher, lee of, course who's.

706
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,319
Speaker 1: Really the carbon copy Of Bella.

707
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 2: Lugosi if they ever was a knockoff, understudy he would

708
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 2: be it. Right tell us about your Grandfather Ln cheney,

709
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,320
Speaker 2: Junior ron how did he come to play The wolfman

710
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 2: in nineteen forty? One and again he's really the third

711
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 2: part of the trinity here of you know these universal.

712
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 4: Monsters, well LIKE i was, saying When long passed, away

713
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 4: he didn't really want his son to go into the.

714
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 4: Business but you go back to him growing up around

715
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 4: two theatrical, parents and then as soon as they weren't

716
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 4: on stage, Anymore long continued on, film and he watched

717
00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 4: his father go from a bottom up to this huge.

718
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 4: Star but What lan had learned was the difficulties of

719
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 4: the business and the treachery and a lot of the

720
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 4: studios and taking advantage of the actors and selling your

721
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 4: soul and that type of. Thing so he kind of

722
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 4: steered my grandfather away from, it even though my GRANDFATHER

723
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:33,919
Speaker 4: i think was destined to do, it because as soon

724
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 4: as his father passed. Away it was only a year

725
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 4: later that you, know he announced he was interested in

726
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:42,839
Speaker 4: going into. It he got a few, calls and then

727
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 4: by nineteen thirty two he signed WITH. Rko he said

728
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 4: during his father's illness at the end that though we

729
00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 4: couldn't even speak at the end because he had throat

730
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,560
Speaker 4: cancer and he was dying via sign, language the new

731
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 4: SIGN i, mean you, know that was one of their,

732
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 4: languages and he. Couldn't he gave him his blessings to sue,

733
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 4: that and so my grandfather then they wanted him to

734
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 4: go in As Lawn Cheney, junior and he felt and

735
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 4: probably knew better than anyone else there was only One Lawn.

736
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,439
Speaker 5: Cheney so he took.

737
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 4: His that's WHY i signed with PAR ko so he

738
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 4: could work under his own, Name Creighton. Cheney but he

739
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,399
Speaker 4: said it, helped you, know he eventually changed it because

740
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 4: the studios kept seeing to Be Lawn Cheney, junior and

741
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,839
Speaker 4: eventually he. Did but he struggled really all the way

742
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,240
Speaker 4: from thirty two to nineteen thirty. Nine he got, roles

743
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 4: but really nothing of. Note he did Some, independence but

744
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 4: they went under so he didn't get all the films.

745
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,719
Speaker 4: In but, eventually when he was basically, broke he had

746
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 4: already separated with my, grandmother so that was another split

747
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 4: in the, family he landed the role of Playing lenny

748
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,120
Speaker 4: on stage on The West Coast run and it WAS

749
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 4: i think similar to What linn said That baylor was

750
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 4: destined to, be you, Know. DRACULA i think the one that,

751
00:44:16,520 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 4: launched truly launched my grandfather Was Lenny Enough mice And,

752
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 4: men because he was no longer the son of an,

753
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 4: actor but recognized for his own, performance and it WAS

754
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 4: i think still one of his greatest performances.

755
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 7: Ever because of that popularity now AND i Think baylea

756
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 7: And boris were aging and my grandfather now, popular they

757
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 7: wanted a new horror, star so they signed my.

758
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 4: Grandfather he did some westerns, first but then they Did

759
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 4: The wolfman and at the end of mainteen forty one

760
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 4: was like right after you, know we declared, war so you, know.

761
00:44:56,480 --> 00:44:57,600
Speaker 5: All these things are going.

762
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 4: On it's amazing in, history but that role now solidified.

763
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 4: Him and the Wolf man is he was always his

764
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 4: baby and, uh you know it was he was the

765
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 4: only one to ever play it in the Five universal,

766
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 4: films and it was, well he Called lendy his bread

767
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 4: and butter because he could always go To thatt.

768
00:45:20,600 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 5: As directors wanted to be that.

769
00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,640
Speaker 4: Character he's so good and, uh and he didn't really like,

770
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,880
Speaker 4: that but you, know he knew that that's what they,

771
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,319
Speaker 4: want And i'll give the director what they. Want so

772
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,959
Speaker 4: but The, wolfman and then he went on to Play

773
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 4: frankenstein and The mummy and also, Tracked.

774
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 2: Yeah he's the guy who he's the only actor to

775
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,800
Speaker 2: play all of that, that, uh the lexicon Of universal

776
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 2: monsters really on. Screen he's the only guy who really does.

777
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 2: It bela comes very. Close but you knew your, grandfather

778
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 2: you knew him as a as a young.

779
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: BOY i.

780
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,360
Speaker 5: Did, YEAH i was passed.

781
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 4: Away.

782
00:45:57,280 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 2: Wow any any anecdote or memory that stands out that you,

783
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 2: say this is the MAN i, knew this is WHO

784
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 2: i want.

785
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,360
Speaker 1: To pass on to the memory.

786
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:07,759
Speaker 5: Of, WELL i called him.

787
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 4: Gramps that's what he, had refer to him As. Grams

788
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 4: but he was, misunderstood, certainly he had his, flaw, certainly

789
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 4: but he was a very, compassionate heartfelt human being so

790
00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 4: kind of lived in that same role that he actually

791
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 4: a wolf man a little. Bit but for me is his.

792
00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 4: Grandson he was just a, loving, warm big teddy. Bear

793
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 4: you know that just he loved you knew when you

794
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 4: saw him he.

795
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: EMBRACED i love that.

796
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 2: PICTURE i came across and it's your grandfather in the,

797
00:46:52,120 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 2: middle AND i think your father's in the shot dressed

798
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 2: as Either dracula Or frankenstein's, monster and he's in the

799
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,680
Speaker 2: wolf man outfit outside of the make up a room

800
00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 2: there At, Universal AND i just love that shot because

801
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 2: you know he's embracing, them not as a monster but

802
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:07,719
Speaker 2: as a.

803
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:08,239
Speaker 1: Dad it's.

804
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 5: Sweet absolutely he.

805
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 4: Helped you, KNOW i do makeup, too but unions didn't

806
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 4: allow him but on that because it was a fun

807
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 4: shoot and he had the makeup artist there And. Frankenstein

808
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 4: and there's my Uncle, lawn so it's my Uncle lawn As.

809
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 4: Frankenstein my dad Was, bracula and Then grandpa's The. Wolfman

810
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 4: so that's the shot you may be referring. Too had done.

811
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:34,279
Speaker 4: That he never talked to anything about the movies because you,

812
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 4: know my parents separated WHEN i was really, young so you,

813
00:47:38,719 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 4: KNOW i learned more of. It my mom stayed very

814
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 4: close to my, grandfather so we would go with mom

815
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 4: and go See grahams and stay with him and and

816
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 4: then meet my dad there sometimes or go individually with

817
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 4: my father to his.

818
00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 5: Ranch but you, know he just made his, work you

819
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 5: know WHAT i, mean that's what your free. Labor, Okay, Dad.

820
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:08,399
Speaker 3: We have a wonderful picture of my dad sitting on

821
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:11,800
Speaker 3: your grandfather's lap dressed as the Wolf.

822
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 2: Man, absolutely when you read biographies of both of these

823
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:22,719
Speaker 2: men And Boris karloff though less, so you realize the

824
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 2: great financial and personal hardship that came with embracing these

825
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 2: roles and becoming so identified as an actor with these

826
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 2: one iconic, role you, know one iconic role that the

827
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 2: public wanted to see them and talk to me. About

828
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 2: the financial hardship that really from the start They La lagosi.

829
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:43,720
Speaker 3: Endured oh, YEAH i mean it was he was always.

830
00:48:43,719 --> 00:48:49,240
Speaker 3: Struggling you, know when he with the success Of, dracula

831
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:52,719
Speaker 3: he you, know he really thought that he could be

832
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 3: financially successful in, film and you know that was his

833
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 3: struggle his his whole. CAREER i mean it was, always you,

834
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,400
Speaker 3: know if you, know being. Typecast the roles that he

835
00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:06,920
Speaker 3: really wished for weren't coming to. Him he never felt

836
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:12,120
Speaker 3: that he could show the audiences the breadth of his acting,

837
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 3: ability and you, know it was always a struggle he

838
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 3: and he didn't drive and he didn't, fly and so you,

839
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 3: know in between films and slow periods during the time

840
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 3: when they really weren't making a lot of horror, films

841
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 3: he would drive across the country and do appearances in

842
00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 3: summer stock and and tour and it was, always you,

843
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:37,560
Speaker 3: know a fight for financial. Survival and he my. Dad

844
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 3: they enrolled my dad in the Elsinor naval And Military

845
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 3: school when he was in first, grade and he boarded

846
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 3: there from first to sixth, grade because you, know they

847
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 3: were constantly traveling and trying to you, know he was

848
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 3: trying to support his, family but it was it was very,

849
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 3: difficult and Like ron said about his great, grandfather my

850
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,880
Speaker 3: grandfather really strongly advise my dad against going into the

851
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 3: acting profession or the entertainment you know, world just because

852
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 3: you were at the mercy of the studios of, producers,

853
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 3: agents you, know, directors and you really he didn't want

854
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,759
Speaker 3: that struggle for my. Dad he wanted to have a,

855
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 3: profession which my dad eventually did and subsequently brought the

856
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 3: case Against universal that won the rights for all of

857
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 3: our families to protect the name and likeness of these. Actors.

858
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:35,520
Speaker 2: YEAH i need to talk about that in a moment

859
00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 2: because that's so important about the likeness and how you,

860
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,319
Speaker 2: know The universal had all of these rights and there

861
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 2: came a time when they, Didn't AND i want to

862
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:46,520
Speaker 2: talk about that in protecting and extending these. Legacies but

863
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: BEFORE i, Do, LYNN i guess many of these tours

864
00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 2: when he was out barnstorming across the Country Bella, LEGOSI.

865
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,239
Speaker 1: I guess he was Playing dracula on the. Road, yes for.

866
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 3: The most Part dracula and then Later arsenic And. Oldlace

867
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 3: he played the same role As boris.

868
00:51:04,600 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 2: Did boris did that On, broadway initially playing a knockoff

869
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 2: of The frankenstein.

870
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:12,880
Speaker 3: Character, Right SO i know that the story behind that,

871
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,920
Speaker 3: is you, know When boris left the, cast you, know

872
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 3: and they wanted to you, know tour with the. Play

873
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 3: they Wanted bailings in no way you, Know i'm not,

874
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 3: following you know in, that and so finally they talked

875
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,640
Speaker 3: him into it under the condition that the line in

876
00:51:30,680 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 3: the play that, oh he looks Like Boris carlov had to,

877
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 3: say he looks Like Bayla. Lagosi and so he agreed

878
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 3: to that. Role and he was quite successful playing playing

879
00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 3: that role In arsenic And.

880
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 1: Oldlace these two men had such an odd.

881
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 2: Dance And ron you can speak to this, too BECAUSE i,

882
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:52,240
Speaker 2: know you know the History Boris karloff And Bela. Lugosi

883
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:57,240
Speaker 2: bella turns down the role Of frankenstein after the huge

884
00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:57,840
Speaker 2: success Of.

885
00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: Dracula first of, all.

886
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 2: Tell me what what how meaningful was that success in

887
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty, one not only to him but To Universal

888
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 2: and why did he turn down the?

889
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 3: Role, WELL i, think, yeah you, know we can go

890
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 3: into the history of the you, know the financial problems

891
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,799
Speaker 3: the study was having at the, time but you know

892
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 3: they it did did save their studio and allowed them

893
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:26,760
Speaker 3: to continue on the success Of dracula because Of bayla's

894
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,319
Speaker 3: performance to you, know make the to Make frankenstein and

895
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:35,240
Speaker 3: the other horror. Films but when my grandfather was first

896
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 3: introduced to the, Screenplay Robert florey was the director and

897
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 3: the screen writer For universal For, frankenstein and he Cast

898
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 3: beyla As Doctor. Frankenstein and. Bailiff he has the. Script you,

899
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,760
Speaker 3: know he felt like this was going to be even

900
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 3: more of a successful role for him Than dracula. Was

901
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 3: And i'd denounced To Robert florey or my. Grandfather universal

902
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:09,680
Speaker 3: brought In James whale and they Cast bela as the,

903
00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:14,520
Speaker 3: monster and he was very upset about. That you, Know Robert,

904
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:18,839
Speaker 3: florey my grandmother, friends you, know do the screen, test

905
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 3: do the, makeup and you, know maybe well you can

906
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,279
Speaker 3: still talk them into, you you, know playing the role

907
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 3: of Doctor. Frankenstein so he. Did there's twenty minutes of

908
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 3: footage of him as the. MONSTER i understand that's, lost

909
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,920
Speaker 3: but he just it just he was he really stuck

910
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 3: to what he believed was how he communed with the,

911
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:44,040
Speaker 3: character how he portrayed, it and he just felt that

912
00:53:44,280 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 3: he couldn't do that in the heavy makeup with no

913
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 3: lines as the, monster and so he did turn down the. Role,

914
00:53:51,239 --> 00:53:54,959
Speaker 3: now my grandmother feels that, really if he had been well,

915
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 3: represented his agent would have, said, Listen, bayla you, know

916
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 3: with your success Of, dragon you should just take this,

917
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 3: role keep your you, know keep your. Status is this

918
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 3: this you know Within universal in the film, world is

919
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:14,720
Speaker 3: this horror, star and you know it was too important

920
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 3: to him to stick to.

921
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,239
Speaker 2: What he thought picked by his guns and by the,

922
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 2: way he would have been a heck of a lot

923
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 2: better As frankenstein as as Doctor. FRANKENSTEIN a guy who

924
00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 2: played the role who reads is such a handbone today

925
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 2: but years, later, curiously years later on he plays The

926
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 2: Bela lugosi Plays frankenstein In Frankenstein meets The.

927
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 4: Wolfman When graham's Did The, wolfman he was very. Popular

928
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 4: then they Wanted worce to come back again As frankenstein

929
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 4: in the fourth one because they were making. Money so you,

930
00:54:47,800 --> 00:54:51,719
Speaker 4: know my grandfather went in and Played, frankenstein.

931
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 5: So he was the next in.

932
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,000
Speaker 4: Line so So boris And bayla And Lon i'll have

933
00:54:56,160 --> 00:55:02,319
Speaker 4: that compality of Playing frankens The, monster Frankens stein And Universal.

934
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:07,800
Speaker 4: Pictures So, psycho how like you were Saying raymond about

935
00:55:07,920 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 4: you know how it just flow like. Long senior. Didn't

936
00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:14,279
Speaker 4: he passed, away so we don't know if he would

937
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:15,920
Speaker 4: ever done. It but it went To, bailin and then

938
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 4: it went To, boris and then it went To lawn

939
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:20,640
Speaker 4: and then the three of them did a lot of movies,

940
00:55:20,680 --> 00:55:25,719
Speaker 4: together a lot of it Did they are iconic characters

941
00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:28,320
Speaker 4: and actors of The Universal, war and all the fans

942
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:29,759
Speaker 4: acknowledge that and love it.

943
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 2: Lynd is it true That Bella, lugosi when he turned

944
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 2: Down Frankenstein's, monster that.

945
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 1: It was he who Suggested Boris?

946
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 3: Karloff you, KNOW i don't know about, That you know,

947
00:55:41,160 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 3: THAT i don't have any facts to document, that and

948
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:48,520
Speaker 3: he NEVER i don't have any stories that he has

949
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:51,080
Speaker 3: told that to. PEOPLE i don't. KNOW i have heard that.

950
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:56,239
Speaker 3: Too i'm sure that they probably maybe recognize each other

951
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:58,560
Speaker 3: or knew each other or something from being on the

952
00:55:58,719 --> 00:56:03,120
Speaker 3: on the, lot you, Know, universal BUT i don't. KNOW

953
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:06,319
Speaker 3: i mean they went on to you, know be you,

954
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 3: know obviously competing for a lot of the same, roles

955
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:14,719
Speaker 3: but also you, know respectful of each other as actors and.

956
00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 3: Cordial it wasn't this mean rivalry that you, know even

957
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 3: at the time the press put out in the rumors

958
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 3: that have you, know been perpetuated even, today and If

959
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,759
Speaker 3: sarah were, here she is you, know she confirmed that

960
00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:35,200
Speaker 3: with you, know her. Father you, know they took so

961
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 3: different lives off offset that they really didn't, interact but

962
00:56:39,600 --> 00:56:41,359
Speaker 3: when they, did they were you, know.

963
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:44,840
Speaker 1: Cordial and, respectful same with my.

964
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:49,400
Speaker 4: Grandfather they've always somehow create controversy between, them but he

965
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 4: had the respect for both of those, actors and that

966
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:56,680
Speaker 4: amazing they had all of the same, roles you know

967
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,640
Speaker 4: that they would be. Considerable so, Yeah i'm really sure

968
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:03,879
Speaker 4: you want to get, it But stacked absolutely.

969
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 1: Well. Ron the amazing thing, is you know they then

970
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: later so they're all of these crossover.

971
00:57:10,080 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 2: Movies you've Got house Of frankenstein in nineteen forty, four

972
00:57:13,960 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 2: which really is the First i'm going to call it

973
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 2: The Monster universe crossover where you Have cheney And karloff

974
00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 2: And strange And, carrotine but then Later Bela lugosi As,

975
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 2: dracula your grandfather as The, Wolfman, ron AND i Guess

976
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:35,320
Speaker 2: Glenn strange as The monster In abbot And Costello Meet, frankenstein.

977
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,520
Speaker 1: WHICH i grew up, on my children grew up, on and.

978
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:42,120
Speaker 2: It's still it's such a cool movie because they're all everybody,

979
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:42,880
Speaker 2: together you, know.

980
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 5: Absolutely you know that was.

981
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 3: Only the second time That bayle Played Count, dracula and

982
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 3: film you only played. Twice, yeah isn't that?

983
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 2: Amazing, yeah it, Really but it ends up being the

984
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,920
Speaker 2: most successful universal crossover though of all these characters were

985
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 2: on it.

986
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:03,360
Speaker 4: Is and ALSO i think my grandfather knew that era

987
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,840
Speaker 4: was over too when it became a. COMEDY a little bit,

988
00:58:07,360 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 4: sure there was a little bittersweep to, it but he

989
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 4: embraced it and he played his role straight up like he.

990
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 4: WOULD i think they all. Did, yeah so classic have At.

991
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 4: Costello how could you? Not you wouldn't think it would

992
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 4: Marry and they made it to, perfection you, know the Whole, yeah.

993
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:26,800
Speaker 1: EVERYBODY i think that's why it holds.

994
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 2: Up you, know it holds up because it's, like, wow

995
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 2: all of these creepy monsters are crashing in the middle

996
00:58:32,560 --> 00:58:33,160
Speaker 2: of this goofy.

997
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:34,720
Speaker 1: Comedy but they kept the.

998
00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:37,520
Speaker 2: ACT i, mean they didn't lean into the comedy as

999
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:41,440
Speaker 2: much as they kept their personas you, know and we're

1000
00:58:41,480 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 2: true to the.

1001
00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: Characters that's the best way to put.

1002
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:45,000
Speaker 4: It, Absolutely.

1003
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 2: Lynn, earlier you mentioned something THAT i want to circle back,

1004
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 2: to And, ron you can comment on this BECAUSE i

1005
00:58:51,280 --> 00:58:53,200
Speaker 2: know it affects your life as. Well and AS i

1006
00:58:53,240 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 2: look in your background, There, ron AND i see the

1007
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,560
Speaker 2: Wolf man and The phantom of The, opera and you

1008
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,600
Speaker 2: know your your, forefathers if you, will and their iconic

1009
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:08,120
Speaker 2: achievements After Bella lugosi dies In. California your Father lynn

1010
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,600
Speaker 2: petitioned the court for the rights to his likeness and

1011
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 2: lost the. Case california said, no and then that was.

1012
00:59:15,800 --> 00:59:19,960
Speaker 2: Overturned tell me what happened there and how you're working

1013
00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:21,880
Speaker 2: to preserve that legacy and extend.

1014
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 3: It, Well i'm very proud of my, father And i'm

1015
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 3: glad you asked this question because the course of events

1016
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:33,960
Speaker 3: have affected all families of deceased. Celebrities but when he

1017
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 3: was in law school AT usc here In Los, angeles

1018
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 3: it was brought to his attention That universal was using

1019
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:46,439
Speaker 3: his father's name and likeness on, merchandise, models, puzzles, lunchboxes

1020
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 3: things like. That and one of his professors, said, NO

1021
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:51,760
Speaker 3: i don't think they can do. That so he brought

1022
00:59:51,800 --> 00:59:56,480
Speaker 3: the case Against Universal lugosi Versus Universal, pictures and it

1023
00:59:56,560 --> 01:00:01,240
Speaker 3: was they won in the lower. Courts courts determined that

1024
01:00:01,280 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 3: By lagosi owned his likeness As Count dracula he created

1025
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 3: on the, stage he brought it to the film and

1026
01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:14,280
Speaker 3: he had licensed his likeness To universal for a, film

1027
01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 3: And dracula's daughter to the you, know they burn, him you,

1028
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,440
Speaker 3: know in a funeral pyre and they have him. There

1029
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 3: so he had used you, know he was he Was.

1030
01:00:24,720 --> 01:00:28,960
Speaker 3: Dracula he owned that he they it was appeal went

1031
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 3: to the appeal by universal and went to The Supreme

1032
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 3: court Of, california where they. Lost and they lost not

1033
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 3: because they didn't the court didn't agree with that By

1034
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:44,920
Speaker 3: lagosi owned his own. Likeness there was no precedent for

1035
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:50,080
Speaker 3: a celebrity's name and likeness to be a property right

1036
01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,680
Speaker 3: that you could pass to your. Heirs so they lost

1037
01:00:53,720 --> 01:00:57,080
Speaker 3: on that. Basis but what it did is it then

1038
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,960
Speaker 3: The california legislature passed a law and acted a law

1039
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 3: called The California Celebrity Rights act that protected to see

1040
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,200
Speaker 3: celebrity's name and likeness and made it a property right

1041
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 3: that they could pass their.

1042
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 2: Errors, wow And, ron how have you all used this

1043
01:01:14,800 --> 01:01:18,560
Speaker 2: right to your in your, case your, grandfather your great

1044
01:01:18,600 --> 01:01:21,440
Speaker 2: grandfather's likeness and? Name how have you used that to

1045
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 2: extend the? Legacy how do you protect?

1046
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 4: It it's, DIFFICULT i can tell. YOU i, MEAN i

1047
01:01:29,080 --> 01:01:31,440
Speaker 4: don't go to a lot of. Shows and lindsay we

1048
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 4: have met at a few, shows BUT i don't know

1049
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,120
Speaker 4: she does very, many BUT i don't do very. Many

1050
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:41,640
Speaker 4: eyes you, go especially the horror conventions. EVERYWHERE i, mean

1051
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 4: it's really hard to protect it per. Se But i'm

1052
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,720
Speaker 4: really working with a lot of wonderful companies because they

1053
01:01:50,760 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 4: grew up on it like we did and having a

1054
01:01:54,320 --> 01:01:57,120
Speaker 4: love of it and their sculptors and, artists and they

1055
01:01:57,120 --> 01:02:00,960
Speaker 4: don't want an alternate depiction know who these people.

1056
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: Were So.

1057
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 4: I'm just working with a lot of companies and people

1058
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 4: are really loving the. CLASSICS i Think i'm finding that

1059
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 4: across the. Board so it is, difficult you, know if

1060
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:17,280
Speaker 4: we can make money at, it and we. DO i

1061
01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 4: work hard at it to try to make something out of,

1062
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 4: it but not big on. MINE i will have to

1063
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 4: ADMIT i am more. CONTRACTORS i stay with my contracting

1064
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,000
Speaker 4: NOW i do the entertainment full. Time but if it

1065
01:02:30,040 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 4: wasn't For Baylet, Junior lynn's absolutely right because that, existed

1066
01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:39,640
Speaker 4: and when when the rights passed down to. Us WHEN

1067
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 4: i filed THE cc, nine ie know IF i remember

1068
01:02:43,720 --> 01:02:49,320
Speaker 4: that section and we did that and it at least

1069
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 4: allowed me to, say, hey, universal wait you, second and

1070
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:56,080
Speaker 4: they write the argument was, HOPE i don't get in

1071
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,400
Speaker 4: trouble for saying this is you can't recommend when he's the. Wolfman,

1072
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:03,320
Speaker 4: Okay i'm, like, okay wait a, second he's himself and

1073
01:03:03,360 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 4: he changes on screen to The. WOLFMAN i think it

1074
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 4: was over them using footage and other movies of their

1075
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 4: own where they didn't have to pay anything because they

1076
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,080
Speaker 4: felt they owned it. All but in the, CONTRACTS i

1077
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 4: would actually say their attorneys have always been a top.

1078
01:03:16,960 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 4: Notch they covered about everything except for one. Thing they

1079
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:24,479
Speaker 4: forgot merchandise because in the time they were signing those,

1080
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:28,920
Speaker 4: contracts there wasn't merchant a little, bit you, Know phantom wasn't. Included,

1081
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:32,640
Speaker 4: yeah and so that was pretty good that you can't

1082
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 4: use that. Person he didn't sign his contract to use

1083
01:03:35,240 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 4: him outside that. Movie they can advertise all they want

1084
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 4: to but their, movies but they can't use them outside of.

1085
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 4: Them and that was WHEN i went against him for.

1086
01:03:43,320 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 4: That and they did try to say that he did

1087
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 4: make a living at. It BUT i had posters when

1088
01:03:50,320 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 4: he did some personal appearances later in, life like he

1089
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 4: was much, older and then he had his picture of himself,

1090
01:03:56,960 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 4: older and then he had The wolfman right now impeering

1091
01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:02,680
Speaker 4: him for Well man. Launching you, know they just, went,

1092
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 4: okay we're going to, settle you, know we're just less

1093
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 4: work And i've always been that. Way i'd rather work with,

1094
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:11,320
Speaker 4: somebody let's negotiate, something because when you make things come

1095
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,439
Speaker 4: to a, hall it's tough to come back from. Them

1096
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:19,840
Speaker 4: AND i also, realize, Well i'm not an attorney, everyone

1097
01:04:20,120 --> 01:04:23,680
Speaker 4: and they're. Expensive BUT i did this BECAUSE i want

1098
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 4: to AND i THINK i have some of that creativity in.

1099
01:04:26,640 --> 01:04:29,280
Speaker 4: Me it's not about the, money But i'd like to

1100
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,600
Speaker 4: use the money to do new creative things using my

1101
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 4: grandfather's legacy and different. Projects And i've met with good.

1102
01:04:37,120 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 4: Success BUT i think it does go back To Baylor.

1103
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,400
Speaker 4: Junior he did such a great, job and he was

1104
01:04:42,440 --> 01:04:45,680
Speaker 4: a young, man you, know wasn't very old when he did.

1105
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 4: That to take On universal was quite a.

1106
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:53,960
Speaker 3: Challenge, yeah that you know, well and you know to Clarify,

1107
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 3: raymond you, know the law is to protect the commercial

1108
01:04:58,160 --> 01:05:02,600
Speaker 3: use of the name and. Likeness SO i think For

1109
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,520
Speaker 3: ron and The cheney family and For sarah and for,

1110
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 3: us the licensing, part the merchandise, part is primarily a

1111
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:16,480
Speaker 3: way to keep the legacy alive and to protect. It,

1112
01:05:16,560 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 3: people especially maybe with Bay lagosi and The, vampire could

1113
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 3: tend to use it. Inappropriately you know that we wouldn't

1114
01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:32,520
Speaker 3: be comfortable, with and so the merchandising is a way

1115
01:05:32,560 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 3: of protecting the likeness right as you, know our grandparents

1116
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:42,920
Speaker 3: and parents would have wanted to be. Portrayed but it

1117
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:46,640
Speaker 3: also allows us then to do WHAT i call like legacy.

1118
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 3: Projects you, know we have donated the cape to The,

1119
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:55,040
Speaker 3: hit the Screen Worn cape to The Academy Film museum

1120
01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 3: here In Los, angeles and our collection Of bayla's films

1121
01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:02,040
Speaker 3: on sixteen mail meter and thirty five milimeter to The

1122
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 3: Academy Film archive under The Bai lugosi. Collection so you,

1123
01:06:06,720 --> 01:06:10,280
Speaker 3: know being able to have those rights has enabled us

1124
01:06:10,320 --> 01:06:14,520
Speaker 3: to protect protect their legacy through merchandise and through these

1125
01:06:14,520 --> 01:06:15,240
Speaker 3: other legacy.

1126
01:06:15,280 --> 01:06:17,440
Speaker 2: Projects well that's WHAT i thought AS i read the

1127
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,320
Speaker 2: story of how this happened and your you, know your father's.

1128
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:20,800
Speaker 1: Involvement.

1129
01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:25,840
Speaker 2: Lynn it really is a way to protect and keep

1130
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:29,880
Speaker 2: pure the artistic contribution and the cultural legacy of these.

1131
01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:34,200
Speaker 1: Men and this is look What Santa.

1132
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 2: Claus is To, Christmas Bela lagosi And Lon Cheney junior

1133
01:06:38,440 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 2: And Boris karloff or To. Halloween it's an annual thing

1134
01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,080
Speaker 2: that's part of our lives and our children's lives and

1135
01:06:45,120 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 2: their children's children's, lives so you have to protect it

1136
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:49,640
Speaker 2: BEFORE i run out of. Time each of you have

1137
01:06:49,720 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 2: films in, development really about your. FAMILY i Know Leonardo,

1138
01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,840
Speaker 2: DiCaprio it has been Reported linn is developing a project

1139
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 2: based on Young Bela. Lagosi have you been involved in

1140
01:06:59,000 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 2: the process there at?

1141
01:06:59,800 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 3: All, no that was that announcement was a surprise to.

1142
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: Me, wow, well well you'll be involved before. LONG i

1143
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: bet you bring.

1144
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:11,880
Speaker 4: A lot of in.

1145
01:07:12,480 --> 01:07:13,840
Speaker 1: Ron you're working on something as.

1146
01:07:13,880 --> 01:07:16,080
Speaker 5: Well, Right i've got a couple of.

1147
01:07:16,160 --> 01:07:19,320
Speaker 4: Things we have a stage. Play it's a musical CALLED

1148
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:23,240
Speaker 4: A Thousand. Faces we premiered it a couple of years,

1149
01:07:23,280 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 4: ago And michigan comes to the low scale we want

1150
01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:30,880
Speaker 4: to try it. Out it's a marvelous. PLAY covid hit

1151
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 4: us on opening. Nights we had to shut down for

1152
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:35,040
Speaker 4: the first, week so we didn't get what we were

1153
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 4: hoping out of it other than performing it and saw

1154
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,720
Speaker 4: how moved. People but it's really not a story so

1155
01:07:41,800 --> 01:07:45,440
Speaker 4: much about monsters per, se you, know or that. Side

1156
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:49,600
Speaker 4: it's about people and relationships and what he went through

1157
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 4: in the hardships and what he persevered to go. Through

1158
01:07:52,280 --> 01:07:55,480
Speaker 4: so it kind of takes The act one is really

1159
01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 4: early in his. Life he's kind of reflecting back and

1160
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 4: then it comes to, yeah a Young creton And lawn

1161
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 4: and my great Grandma cleva up to WHAT i discussed,

1162
01:08:05,720 --> 01:08:08,960
Speaker 4: earlier you, know this tragic events in her family that

1163
01:08:09,200 --> 01:08:11,760
Speaker 4: Ends act, one an act too starts where he's got

1164
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:15,320
Speaker 4: to go into the movies and the song that's my favorite.

1165
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:19,760
Speaker 4: Song it says look ahead and it's very. Touching so

1166
01:08:19,840 --> 01:08:22,639
Speaker 4: that's one of. It working on a screen about my great.

1167
01:08:22,640 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 4: Grandfather As i'm putting my final touches on the, book

1168
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:30,360
Speaker 4: my grandfather started a century Of. Cheney SO i starteding

1169
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:32,840
Speaker 4: that my book And i'm looking At i'm going, like,

1170
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:36,040
Speaker 4: Man i'm gonna start writing this BECAUSE I i've written

1171
01:08:36,320 --> 01:08:38,120
Speaker 4: other SO i kind of learned how to do. That

1172
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 4: not THAT i was necessarily a, writer BUT i think

1173
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:44,320
Speaker 4: as a working at the, creativities PROBABLY i got some of.

1174
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 5: IT i had to want to do, this BUT i enjoy.

1175
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:50,160
Speaker 5: IT i do it BECAUSE i love that.

1176
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:54,280
Speaker 4: AND i hope THAT i leave something as an inspiration

1177
01:08:54,560 --> 01:08:56,920
Speaker 4: for other people to take from my family and the

1178
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:58,160
Speaker 4: struggles they went through as.

1179
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:00,559
Speaker 2: WELL i LOVE i read somewhere that you found a

1180
01:09:00,600 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 2: box and your Grandfather Lawn Cheney junior had made notes

1181
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:06,040
Speaker 2: on the back of pictures and had notes in a

1182
01:09:06,080 --> 01:09:07,160
Speaker 2: box that no one knew.

1183
01:09:07,240 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 4: Existed, WELL i remember when my, grandma Well granda's had

1184
01:09:11,400 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 4: passed away And grandma had to move because of health,

1185
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 4: reasons so we went and helped her move In San,

1186
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:18,799
Speaker 4: diego AND i. Came when we got to the, garage

1187
01:09:19,720 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 4: there was two. Boxes it says picture book on the

1188
01:09:22,680 --> 01:09:27,040
Speaker 4: side of one of. Them AND i remember at that

1189
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:31,519
Speaker 4: time to this, moment AND i, SAID i Remember grandam's

1190
01:09:31,560 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 4: working out because he had pictures all spread out all

1191
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:35,639
Speaker 4: that AND i remember talking to a little bit about

1192
01:09:35,720 --> 01:09:36,519
Speaker 4: not really paying a lot of.

1193
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:37,519
Speaker 5: ATTENTION i WISH i had.

1194
01:09:37,560 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 4: More but WHEN i pulled it out and opened it,

1195
01:09:40,000 --> 01:09:41,680
Speaker 4: up AND i started seeing all these pictures of my

1196
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 4: great grandfather on stage and my great. Grandma and it

1197
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:47,160
Speaker 4: was called A century A, Cheney so it's about a

1198
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:50,759
Speaker 4: one hundred years of entertainment with the Three cheneyes together.

1199
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 4: Collectively and then he had notes on his dad about

1200
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:57,519
Speaker 4: The phantom and The. HUNCHBACK i didn't know WHAT i was,

1201
01:09:57,560 --> 01:09:59,120
Speaker 4: doing BUT i, said, Yeah i'm going to do this. Book,

1202
01:09:59,160 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 4: WELL i had no idea WHAT i was, doing but

1203
01:10:01,200 --> 01:10:04,120
Speaker 4: lo and behoored twenty five years of. Love at the

1204
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:09,000
Speaker 4: Final it's, Coming it's AND i left everything in there

1205
01:10:09,040 --> 01:10:11,519
Speaker 4: of my grandfather that he wrote and, then BUT i

1206
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 4: tried to fill it out WITH i think where the

1207
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:17,679
Speaker 4: inspiration came from early when The chinese came To america

1208
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:22,040
Speaker 4: from sixteen fifty, onward and how they ended up two

1209
01:10:22,120 --> 01:10:25,320
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty years later In. Hollywood so it's a

1210
01:10:25,320 --> 01:10:25,920
Speaker 4: little bit of that.

1211
01:10:26,040 --> 01:10:28,880
Speaker 1: Path tell me about the. Book about the new book coming.

1212
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:34,439
Speaker 3: Out it's the only family authorized biography On Bai, lugosi

1213
01:10:34,600 --> 01:10:37,439
Speaker 3: and it's actually a new. Edition the original book was

1214
01:10:37,479 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 3: published in nineteen seventy, six so it's same. Author we've

1215
01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:45,600
Speaker 3: been friends with him for over fifty, years and it's

1216
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 3: just a beautiful. Book it's the definitive biography On Bai

1217
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:55,840
Speaker 3: lugosi with over eleven hundred. Photographs and you, know it's

1218
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:58,320
Speaker 3: been a journey for me Because i've learned so much

1219
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 3: more about my grandfather from the author who interviewed my,

1220
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:06,000
Speaker 3: grandmother who is married To baila for over twenty, years

1221
01:11:06,439 --> 01:11:10,640
Speaker 3: and his family and friends and co workers at the

1222
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:13,720
Speaker 3: time that he got the interviews that were unique to this.

1223
01:11:13,760 --> 01:11:17,720
Speaker 3: Book so it's a true insight into the man behind the,

1224
01:11:17,760 --> 01:11:21,200
Speaker 3: cape AND i think readers will find it an interesting

1225
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:26,599
Speaker 3: story as his life wove through significant times in history

1226
01:11:26,720 --> 01:11:30,400
Speaker 3: and how he dealt with, those as well as the career.

1227
01:11:30,400 --> 01:11:32,679
Speaker 2: BEFORE i let you, go what do you all? Think

1228
01:11:32,720 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 2: i'm curious about this BECAUSE i see it Every. Halloween

1229
01:11:35,800 --> 01:11:38,640
Speaker 2: what do you think when you see children or, adults

1230
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:42,360
Speaker 2: more often than, not dressed As dracula and the Wolf,

1231
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 2: man and not Any dracula and the Wolf, man but

1232
01:11:45,840 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 2: as really your.

1233
01:11:47,360 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 1: Grandparents what do you? Think i'll start with.

1234
01:11:49,600 --> 01:11:53,080
Speaker 3: You that's one of the most fun things Around halloween

1235
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:56,840
Speaker 3: or even you, know anytime when people always SAY i

1236
01:11:56,920 --> 01:11:58,880
Speaker 3: dressed up As dracula WHEN i was a, kid and

1237
01:11:58,880 --> 01:12:00,720
Speaker 3: always say send me the pig SHOULD i want to see.

1238
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:04,640
Speaker 3: It so that this great collection of people that are

1239
01:12:04,720 --> 01:12:08,200
Speaker 3: still fans today showing me at what they dressed up

1240
01:12:08,439 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 3: As saloween's Little. Draculusa that's really. Fun.

1241
01:12:13,240 --> 01:12:15,160
Speaker 1: Ron what do you think when you see those snarley

1242
01:12:15,240 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 1: wolves people?

1243
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:18,599
Speaker 4: RUNNING i love, it you, KNOW I And i've Got

1244
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,960
Speaker 4: phantom of The operas And wolfman's rounding. Around that's, right

1245
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:25,240
Speaker 4: you got a too For it's it's it's you, KNOW

1246
01:12:25,280 --> 01:12:27,599
Speaker 4: i always Loved halloween as a. KID i always love

1247
01:12:27,640 --> 01:12:31,080
Speaker 4: to dress, up not even thinking about my family do

1248
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:34,519
Speaker 4: AND i just enjoy doing. It BUT i still embrace,

1249
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:37,120
Speaker 4: it and just to see kids do, IT i.

1250
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:37,800
Speaker 5: Think warms my.

1251
01:12:37,920 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 4: Heart IS i THINK i put my own son in

1252
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 4: a few of the costumes the few times as he

1253
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 4: was growing.

1254
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:47,719
Speaker 2: Up my, Daughters, WELL i thank you both for helping

1255
01:12:47,800 --> 01:12:52,240
Speaker 2: us humanize these movie monsters that we grew up with

1256
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:55,559
Speaker 2: and the men behind, them both the hardship and the

1257
01:12:55,760 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 2: and the example they left. Us and thank you all

1258
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:00,880
Speaker 2: for trying to preserve that cultural like it is so.

1259
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:04,440
Speaker 3: Important thank you so much for giving us this. Opportunity

1260
01:13:04,640 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 3: it is a rare opportunity, actually and we really appreciate.

1261
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:11,400
Speaker 1: It it's an, Honor it's An raymond.

1262
01:13:11,640 --> 01:13:16,320
Speaker 4: UH i, Know, lynn like myself appreciate the ability to

1263
01:13:16,520 --> 01:13:19,080
Speaker 4: kind of sometimes get our story out there from another

1264
01:13:19,640 --> 01:13:22,840
Speaker 4: view because often people, say, oh you're just doing this or,

1265
01:13:22,840 --> 01:13:24,360
Speaker 4: that and you're going to, know, man it's really it's

1266
01:13:24,400 --> 01:13:25,760
Speaker 4: a lot of, work and it's hard.

1267
01:13:25,800 --> 01:13:26,400
Speaker 5: Work it is.

1268
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:30,760
Speaker 4: Going BUT i See lynn BECAUSE i used to work

1269
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:34,519
Speaker 4: with her dad more Than, lynn And i've seen her just,

1270
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 4: blossoming grow and just become this expert on her on her,

1271
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:44,680
Speaker 4: grandfather and it's it's wonderful to see BECAUSE i KNOW

1272
01:13:44,760 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 4: i had to learn. IT i think neither one of

1273
01:13:46,960 --> 01:13:50,599
Speaker 4: us grew up around. It per se knew more than we.

1274
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:53,480
Speaker 4: Did but once we embrace, it go, WELL i can humanize,

1275
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:56,160
Speaker 4: it like you, said or personalize it BECAUSE i know the.

1276
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:58,479
Speaker 4: Man you guys know the, movies, WELL i need to

1277
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:00,439
Speaker 4: now know the movies in the career SO i can

1278
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,519
Speaker 4: combine it to in form a better opinion of who

1279
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:05,439
Speaker 4: they were WHEN i start to write about.

1280
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:08,920
Speaker 2: It, yeah beautiful, now and writing teaches. You you know

1281
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 2: that exercise teaches you a lot about, yourself about the.

1282
01:14:12,320 --> 01:14:16,080
Speaker 2: People you learn things and encounter things you never. Expected

1283
01:14:16,120 --> 01:14:19,720
Speaker 2: So i'm glad you both did that. Journey there is

1284
01:14:19,760 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 2: a fantastic pictorial biography Of Bela lagosi Called Bela Lugosi

1285
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:27,400
Speaker 2: The Man behind The. Cape it's worth checking. Out it's

1286
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:31,600
Speaker 2: available for pre order now At clover Press. Us And

1287
01:14:31,720 --> 01:14:35,200
Speaker 2: Ron cheney has a new book out CALLED A century

1288
01:14:35,400 --> 01:14:38,960
Speaker 2: Of cheney's it'll be out later this. Year started by his,

1289
01:14:39,040 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 2: grandfather by the, way and he completed.

1290
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:42,080
Speaker 1: It scare that one up.

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01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:44,479
Speaker 2: TOO i hope you'll come back to A Royo grande.

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01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:48,080
Speaker 2: Soon why live a, dry constricted life when if you

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01:14:48,160 --> 01:14:50,840
Speaker 2: fill it with good, things it can flow into a

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01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:52,719
Speaker 2: broad driving A Royo.

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01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 1: Grande i'm Ram An.

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01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:59,280
Speaker 2: Arroyo make sure you, subscribe like this episode and comment. Below,

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01:14:59,680 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 2: thanks thank for diving, In Happy, halloween and we'll see

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Speaker 2: you next. Time Arroyo grande is produced in partnership WITH

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Speaker 2: Dp studios And iHeart, podcasts and it's available on The

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01:15:10,200 --> 01:15:24,479
Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts