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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class from how

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Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Tracy Wilson and i'm today we have a listener

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Speaker 1: request by everyone. It certainly seems that way, it feels

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Speaker 1: that way. It's something people have been asking us through

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Speaker 1: an episode on since we joined the podcast, and then

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Speaker 1: last week I asked on our Facebook page for events

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Speaker 1: specifically that people would like to hear about because our

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Speaker 1: listener ideas list is about people. Uh and Carmen, Carol

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Speaker 1: and Aisha all asked to hear about this. UM. I

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Speaker 1: also want to give a special shout out to Ayisha,

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Speaker 1: and I hope I'm saying your name correctly. Aisha went

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Speaker 1: through and answered so many people who asked about episodes

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Speaker 1: that we actually already have after I had like clocked

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Speaker 1: out for the weekend, came to work on my day morning,

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Speaker 1: and when I started plowing through that threat again, they

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Speaker 1: were all these answers that it was great and I

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Speaker 1: will thank her too because I was away on vacation

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Speaker 1: at the time, so she covers both of us very kindly.

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Speaker 1: That was awesome. So if you go to the movies

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Speaker 1: today anywhere in the developed world, there's going to be

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Speaker 1: an announcement before the feature reminding you to look for

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Speaker 1: your nearest exit. Uh. If you like movies at all,

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Speaker 1: you've probably heard it so many times that you don't

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Speaker 1: really even think about it anymore. You probably also don't

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Speaker 1: need to be reminded that it might be behind you.

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Speaker 1: And you probably also just take for granted that if

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Speaker 1: there's an emergency, you can push on the door and

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Speaker 1: it will open. That standard. Yeah, it's pretty movie theater

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Speaker 1: standard business now. Not so in h three, when Chicago's

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Speaker 1: Iroquois Theater, which had only been opened for five weeks,

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Speaker 1: caught fire and killed more than six hundred people, are alert.

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Speaker 1: This is not a peppy episode. No, And if you

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Speaker 1: already feel depressed, so many people have asked us to

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Speaker 1: talk about this, so so, so many so. Uh, if

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Speaker 1: you're angry at another Dead Women and Children's story, blame them.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. You can maybe come back to this

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Speaker 1: one later when you're in a lighter mood, and it

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Speaker 1: will be quite so impactful on your your well being. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I personally have been trying to stick with more

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Speaker 1: hopeful stories since we're heading into the holiday season, and

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Speaker 1: this is oddly even more appropriate because it happens darium

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Speaker 1: holiday season. Yeah. So, yeah, we'll make great efforts to

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Speaker 1: do peppier ones in the next the next several episodes

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Speaker 1: at least, uh so. The Iroquois Theater on Randolph Street

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Speaker 1: in Chicago was, as Tracy said, just a moment ago

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Speaker 1: nearly knew when it burned. It opened on November twenty three,

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Speaker 1: nine three, and it was six stories tall and described

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Speaker 1: by Eddie Foy, who was on stage for its last performance,

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Speaker 1: as quote one of the finest that had yet been

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Speaker 1: built in this country, a palace of marble and plate glass,

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Speaker 1: plush and mahogany and guilding. Its foyer was immense. It

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Speaker 1: had these sixty foot ceilings and a grand staircase on

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Speaker 1: either side, and then the backstage accommodations for the performers

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Speaker 1: and the orchestra were similarly very well appointed. It was

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Speaker 1: also supposed to be entirely fireproof, and, as we've talked

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Speaker 1: about in past episodes, including the one on the Grove

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Speaker 1: Park in Buyer, was a really huge threat to hotels

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Speaker 1: and other public buildings. Various architects, planners, and builders tried

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Speaker 1: their hand at coming up with a way to build

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Speaker 1: a fireproof building. Theater fires in particular had a huge

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Speaker 1: potential for catastrophe, so being fireproof was a really big deal.

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Speaker 1: And in addition to its construction, there was an asbestos

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Speaker 1: curtain that was supposed to protect the audience from any

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Speaker 1: kind of fire that started on the stage. Sho Tago's

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Speaker 1: building commissioner, George Williams and its fire inspector Ed Laughlin

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Speaker 1: called it quote fireproof beyond all doubts, but not everyone

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Speaker 1: was so convinced as that. William clendonan editor of Fireproof Magazine,

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Speaker 1: had inspected the Iroquois Theater that summer before it opened

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Speaker 1: and actually found it woefully lacking. Among his points, there

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Speaker 1: was no draft to draw fire up into the loft

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Speaker 1: instead of allowing it to spread out into the audience.

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Speaker 1: There were exposed reinforcements around the procenium arch, there was

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Speaker 1: too much wood trim everywhere. There was also no fire alarm,

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Speaker 1: no standpipe, and no sprinkler over the stage. So while

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Speaker 1: the building itself was widely touted as being fireproof, uh

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Speaker 1: if a fire did start, there was all kinds of

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Speaker 1: completely flammable stuff inside of it, and a fire was

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Speaker 1: very likely to spread unchecked without a way to either

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Speaker 1: summon the fire department from on the property or control

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Speaker 1: the fire until help arrived. At full capacity, the theater

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Speaker 1: was supposed to see one thousand, seven hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: four people, but December thirty, nineteen o three was a

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Speaker 1: particularly busy day. School was still out for Christmas break

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Speaker 1: and the theater had been packed with nineteen hundred people

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Speaker 1: in a standing room only show, although some reports put

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Speaker 1: the number even higher than that, and unfortunately nearly all

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Speaker 1: of them were children and their mothers. The show that

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Speaker 1: day was a musical and it was called Mr. Blue Beard.

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Speaker 1: It started vaudeville comedian Eddie Foy in drag as the

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Speaker 1: role of Sister Anne, and he was backed up with

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Speaker 1: a troop of five hundred along with a full orchestra.

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Speaker 1: This play was an adaptation of Grimm's Fairy Tales that

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Speaker 1: had originally opened on Drewury Lane in London, and it

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Speaker 1: was touring with all the original props and scenery and

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Speaker 1: a lot of the original cast. And you may wonder

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Speaker 1: how a play about blue Beard would be okay for

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Speaker 1: child drim uh And in this version, all of blue

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Speaker 1: Beard's murdered wives are restored to life, and like many

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Speaker 1: musicals at the time, it was mostly a framing device

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Speaker 1: for a bunch of songs, so it focused less on

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Speaker 1: the actual story of blue Beard and his murderous freeze.

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Speaker 1: As you know if you've ever been in a play,

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Speaker 1: stage lights are really really hot, and in the second act,

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Speaker 1: eight couples took the stage for a number called In

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Speaker 1: the Pale Moonlight, and about three fifteen in the afternoon,

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Speaker 1: one of the painted canvas backdrops caught fire. It was

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Speaker 1: in the vicinity of a spotlight. There are various explanations

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Speaker 1: for exactly what happened. One is that the backdrop brushed

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Speaker 1: against a reflector of the spotlight, which was extremely hot.

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Speaker 1: Another is that it actually blew blue a fuse. Another

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Speaker 1: is that just something went wrong and a spark shot out. Uh. Regardless,

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Speaker 1: this oil paint covered canvas backdrop started to smolder, and

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Speaker 1: a stage hand named William McMullan saw it happen and

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Speaker 1: actually tried to put it out with his hands like

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Speaker 1: you would hit out something small that was smoldering, but

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Speaker 1: he couldn't reach it from the catwalk where he was standing.

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Speaker 1: Also on hand was an on site firefighter who tried

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Speaker 1: to put the fire out with two tubes of a

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Speaker 1: product called kill Fires. This was, according to an advertisement

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Speaker 1: in the Los Angeles Herald the following year, quote, a

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Speaker 1: dry compound in a tin tube and weighs less than

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Speaker 1: three pounds. So it's primary component was by carbonate of soda,

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Speaker 1: baking soda. And it probably would have done fine for

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Speaker 1: the task of putting out a grease fire in a kitchen,

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Speaker 1: But on the vertical surface of a burning oil paint

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Speaker 1: covered canvas, it was not sufficient to do the job

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Speaker 1: at all, and the fire started to spread. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it was basically meant to smother a fire out, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: there was literally no way to do that on a vertical,

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Speaker 1: hanging surface. This so at first the audience didn't know

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Speaker 1: anything was wrong because the fire, as fire generally does,

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Speaker 1: climbed upwards, and the first things that really caught were

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Speaker 1: everything in the fly space above the stage. This was

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Speaker 1: full of curtains and painted canvas backdrops and other scenery

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Speaker 1: that was suspended above the stage area. But the audience's

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Speaker 1: lack of awareness about the situation changed rather quickly as

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Speaker 1: the various flies and curtains caught fire and started to

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Speaker 1: fall still burning onto the stage. So things are going

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Speaker 1: to become pretty horrifying in a minute, and before they do,

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Speaker 1: let's take a brief word from a sponsor. As soon

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Speaker 1: as burning scenery started to fall onto the stage, the actors,

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Speaker 1: i mean some of them, continued on in their roles

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Speaker 1: and some of them really started to panic. People in

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Speaker 1: the audience also started to panic, and Eddie Foy, who

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Speaker 1: had been in his dressing room when the fire started,

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Speaker 1: ran out to find out what the emotion was. He

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Speaker 1: had actually brought one of his children, a little boy

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Speaker 1: named Brian, to the show, and since there weren't any

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Speaker 1: seat of seats available, he'd let Brian sit in one

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Speaker 1: of the wings. When Foy saw what was happening, the

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Speaker 1: first thing that he did was find his son and

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Speaker 1: give him to a stage hand to try to keep

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Speaker 1: him safe, and then he ran downstage to try to

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Speaker 1: calm the audience. He told them not to get too excited,

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Speaker 1: that everything was under control. It became pretty clear quickly

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't actually under control, because burning curtains started

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Speaker 1: following onto the stage at his feet. At this point,

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Speaker 1: he yelled at the stage manager to drop the asbestos curtain,

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Speaker 1: but that curtain got snagged on a light fixture and

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Speaker 1: it jammed part way down its track. Boy stayed on

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Speaker 1: the stage. He really did his best to calm the audience,

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Speaker 1: and while the people in front who could see and

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Speaker 1: hear him, did try or did at least seem to

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Speaker 1: try to take a more orderly, calm approach for the exit.

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Speaker 1: At this point, the people in the balconies were already

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Speaker 1: completely in a panic. The actors and dancers, completely terrified,

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Speaker 1: fled the theater through the stage door. When they did,

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Speaker 1: a huge blast of air came in through that door

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Speaker 1: and forced the flames under the asbestos curtain. So he

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Speaker 1: had come down part way, and now it was just

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Speaker 1: sort of being drafted out underneath it into the audience.

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Speaker 1: Events that should have allowed the n rushing ear to

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Speaker 1: escape through the roof were nailed shut. These were also

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Speaker 1: supposed to contain fans to draw the air out, but

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Speaker 1: those had never been finished. The result of this combination

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Speaker 1: of fire and air flow was an enormous fireball, and

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Speaker 1: it spread out over the heads of the people who

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Speaker 1: were on the first floor of the theater, and according

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Speaker 1: to reports, that actually brushed the balconies. Everything in the

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Speaker 1: house that was flammable caught fire and the audience started

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Speaker 1: to flee for the doors. As the stage literally started

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Speaker 1: to collapse, Foy looked up and saw that the asbestos

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Speaker 1: curtain itself was now burning. It was basically too thin

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't rein forced, so once the fire got

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Speaker 1: to it, it literally fell apart. Boys actions were really

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Speaker 1: pretty heroic during all of this. He stayed on stage

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Speaker 1: as long as he could, trying to encourage people to

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Speaker 1: calmly steak safety, and so finally the blinding smoke and

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Speaker 1: terror for the safety of his own son sent him

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Speaker 1: out the stage door as well, and he was reunited

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Speaker 1: with his little boy outside. As he left, the cables

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Speaker 1: holding the last of the flies and curtains and the

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Speaker 1: loft gave way and the whole burning mass of scenery

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Speaker 1: fell to the stage, causing a second fireball to erupt

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Speaker 1: through the house of the theater. The Iroquois Theater did

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Speaker 1: indeed have a lot of exits, twenty seven of them

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Speaker 1: in total, although there was one report that said there

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Speaker 1: were thirty, with twenty seven of them locked, but some

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Speaker 1: of them were actually obscured by drapes. Others have been

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Speaker 1: blocked in an effort to keep people from getting into

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Speaker 1: the show without buying a ticket, and those that could

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Speaker 1: be opened by the audience used an unfamiliar design and

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Speaker 1: people did not know how to get them open. They

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Speaker 1: had kind of a weird, fiddly lever thing that would

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Speaker 1: have been tricky and even under good circumstances, but by

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Speaker 1: terrified people in a building filling with smoke, they were

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Speaker 1: next to impossible. Um Also, just before we came in

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Speaker 1: here I found a report that the the actual doors

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Speaker 1: leading from the balcony to those grand staircases had also

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Speaker 1: been locked to try to keep the people in the

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Speaker 1: balconies from getting to the better seats in the lower

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Speaker 1: levels of the theater without paying for them. So as

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Speaker 1: people tried to push their way out, the situation only

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Speaker 1: got worse. Smoke filled the theater and no one could see,

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Speaker 1: and there were also no emergency lights that would have

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Speaker 1: helped guide people to the exits. Those who made it

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Speaker 1: to the doors first were actually crushed against them by

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Speaker 1: the people behind. People who fell while trying to reach

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Speaker 1: safety were trampled to death. Casualties even continued outside the

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Speaker 1: theater because the fires spread up the side of the

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Speaker 1: building under the fire escapes, so people who had been

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Speaker 1: in the balconies and actually managed to get out onto

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Speaker 1: the fire escape, saw that it was impassable, and they

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Speaker 1: tried to jump. A lot of them died when they landed,

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Speaker 1: and later waves of people who jumped survived only because

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Speaker 1: they landed on the bodies of the people who had

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Speaker 1: died in the jump previously. Then that got even worse

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Speaker 1: because the people jumped after them crushed the people who

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Speaker 1: had initially survived their descent. And I need a break

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Speaker 1: from the story. It's it's so awful. It's one of

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Speaker 1: those things that sounds almost ridiculous in just the levels

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Speaker 1: of horror that keep kind of layering on top of

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Speaker 1: one another. It gets worse and worse. Yeah, So we're

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Speaker 1: going to take another brief pause or a word from

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Speaker 1: a sponsor, so to get back to the Iroquois Theater fire.

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Speaker 1: It was all over in about fifteen minutes. Because there

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Speaker 1: was no fire alarm in the theater, a stage hand

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Speaker 1: had to run to the nearest fire station to someone help.

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Speaker 1: Firefighters had the blaze extinguished within about half an hour.

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Speaker 1: There wasn't really much left for them to do when

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Speaker 1: they got there because the fire had burned up just

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Speaker 1: about everything that was flammable by that point that people

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Speaker 1: who had survived the crushing rush for the exits had

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Speaker 1: all nearly died of smoke inhalation. Firefighters found piles of

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Speaker 1: bodies up to ten deep at the exits and clogging

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Speaker 1: all of the aisles. In total, five hundred and seventy

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Speaker 1: five people died that day out of the nineteen hundred

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Speaker 1: that were there, so that equates to about thirty of

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Speaker 1: the audience. Nearly all of the victims were women and children,

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Speaker 1: and thirty more people died of their injuries in the

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Speaker 1: following weeks, and hundreds more were injured by the whole event.

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Speaker 1: Most of those old had been in the balconies. A

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Speaker 1: very few people were almost miraculously pulled out from under

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Speaker 1: the bodies of others, which had protected them from the

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Speaker 1: smoke and the fire. The whole thing was obviously devastating

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Speaker 1: to Chicago's family families, with the overwhelming number of victims

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Speaker 1: being moms and their children. Was the deadliest fire in

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Speaker 1: Chicago history, far outpacing the Great Chicago Fire, which killed

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Speaker 1: about two hundred fifty was also the deadliest theater fire

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Speaker 1: in the United States history, and I think it's still

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Speaker 1: also the largest single building fire depth holl The cast,

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Speaker 1: having escaped through the stage door, was almost unscathed. The

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Speaker 1: only fatality among the performers was a tight rope artist

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Speaker 1: named Nellie Reid, who was supposed to be part of

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Speaker 1: a flying ballet and had been in the loft above

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Speaker 1: the stage when the fire started. She died of her

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Speaker 1: burns a few days to the incident. When all of

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Speaker 1: this happened, it was a huge scandal, even though having

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Speaker 1: twenty seven exits and an asbestos curtain and an onsite

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Speaker 1: on site firefighter sounds like it's good from a fire

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Speaker 1: safety standpoint. A whole series of inquests and investigations followed

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Speaker 1: the tragedy, and every single one of them unearthed all

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Speaker 1: kinds of problems in terms of safety and oversight. The

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Speaker 1: Chicago Daily Tribune actually sponsored its own investigation, and it

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Speaker 1: later published an enormous list of faults and wrongdoing. The

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Speaker 1: theater itself had actually been in violation of fire code

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Speaker 1: before its opening, but city officials got complimentary tickets and

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Speaker 1: they looked the other way. In addition to all the

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Speaker 1: problems we mentioned earlier, there were no hooks for taking

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Speaker 1: down burning scenery. There were no fire extinguishers, and there

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Speaker 1: was no training for the staff about what to do

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Speaker 1: in the event of an emergency. Had all the proper

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Speaker 1: cod it's been followed and had basic safety precautions been

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Speaker 1: in place, many lives would have been saved. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is a tragedy that a lot of times gets a

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Speaker 1: lot of credit for revolutionizing fire safety, which in some

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Speaker 1: aspects is true. But in other aspects there were actual

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Speaker 1: elements of the fire code that would have saved lives

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Speaker 1: and were not followed, and city inspectors did not do

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Speaker 1: anything to prevent the theater from opening up before those

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Speaker 1: faults were fixed. Although the theater manager and several Chicago

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Speaker 1: public officials were indicted, none of them were ever charged.

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Speaker 1: The owner of the theater was charged and convicted, but

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Speaker 1: that charge was later reversed. The only person who ever

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Speaker 1: did jail time in conjunction with this fire was a

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Speaker 1: tavern keeper whose business had been used as a temporary morgue,

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Speaker 1: and he was convicted of stealing from the dead. None

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Speaker 1: of the victims families received any sort of restitution, apart

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Speaker 1: from one class action suit whose members each received seven

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars. The mayor of Chicago at the

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Speaker 1: time was Carter H. Harrison, and he was one of

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Speaker 1: the people who was indicted after the fire. Afterward, he's

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Speaker 1: shut down more than a hundred and seventy theaters, churches,

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Speaker 1: and other gathering places to have them reinspected. He also

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Speaker 1: passed ordinances requiring that all theater doors be clearly marked

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Speaker 1: and open outward in the direction that traffic would need

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Speaker 1: to go in an emergency. And as devastating as this

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Speaker 1: fire was, the building itself was actually mostly unharmed. It

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Speaker 1: closed down and it reopened a year later as the

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Speaker 1: Colonial Theater. It was then torn down in to make

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Speaker 1: room for the Oriental Theater. It is now the Gertrude

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Speaker 1: cy Ford Center for the Performing Arts. There's also a

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Speaker 1: memorial to the disaster in Montrose Cemetery in Chicago, and today,

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Speaker 1: as Tracy mentioned at the top of the episode, just

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Speaker 1: about everywhere has laws saying that exits have to be

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Speaker 1: clearly marked and that you have to be able to

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Speaker 1: see them from the inside, even if you can't get

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Speaker 1: in from the outside. Because I was working on the

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Speaker 1: outline for this, I was reminded of the S. S.

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Speaker 1: Sultana episode Yes and which people ignored safety to make

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Speaker 1: extra money. I feel like we have had other episodes

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Speaker 1: also about people ignoring safety to make extra money. I

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Speaker 1: know there are definitely definitely episodes and the archives about

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Speaker 1: people ignoring safety to make extra money. I would like

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Speaker 1: the world to learn a lesson from this history and

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Speaker 1: stop ignoring safety to make extra money. Yeah. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's one of those sort of horrible indicators of you know,

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Speaker 1: that aspect of human nature that you will prioritize cash

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Speaker 1: flow over doing the right thing. It's not our finest

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Speaker 1: hour as people. No, do you have some listener mail

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Speaker 1: to shift us into a slightly peppier and less depressing gear. Yes.

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Speaker 1: Before I read it, I do like part of me

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Speaker 1: wondered as I was finishing this up if all of

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Speaker 1: the people who have asked us to talk about this

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Speaker 1: episode already knew how heartbreakingly tragic it was. I feel

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Speaker 1: like some of them must have, and some of them,

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Speaker 1: uh probably had sort of heard it in the same

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Speaker 1: context as like the Triangle shirt waste factory fire, and

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Speaker 1: it's sort of it was a big fire. I would

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Speaker 1: like to hear more about that. Hm. Sorry, it's such

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Speaker 1: a terrible story. Well, and it is important. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there were a lot of you know, ramifications that we

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Speaker 1: still feel today, whether or not we knew that this

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Speaker 1: was the source of some of them, but it is.

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Speaker 1: It's not not really an uplifting and delightful adventure to

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Speaker 1: go on. I have a much more uplifting and delightful

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Speaker 1: listener mail. I love it when it's out. Yes, So

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Speaker 1: this is from Vanessa sa and Vanessa says, Hi, Tracy

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Speaker 1: and Holly. I was so happy to stumble onto your

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Speaker 1: podcast about the Lady Julianna. I'm a regular listener, but

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Speaker 1: I had that one unplayed in my feed when I

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Speaker 1: heard you reading listener mail about it. My fourth grade

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Speaker 1: grandmother Anne arrived in Australia on the Lady Julianna. She

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Speaker 1: had been convicted for stealing clothes from her employer. I'd

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Speaker 1: say she was already pretty sassy as at that tender age.

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Speaker 1: She was already using an alias Hannah and stated in

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Speaker 1: court quote, I had no more intention of taking the

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Speaker 1: things than I have of going to Jamaica this minute.

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Speaker 1: She was tried at the Old Bailey in February sight

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Speaker 1: and the court transcript still exists, which I think is

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Speaker 1: just the most amazing thing. She tried to bluff it out,

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Speaker 1: but it's pretty clear she was guilty of her crime.

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Speaker 1: She gave her ages nineteen, but she was probably only

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Speaker 1: fourteen or fifteen. On board the ship, she quickly took

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Speaker 1: up with a sailor James. I don't know whether they

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Speaker 1: had strong feelings for each other, if it was exploitation

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Speaker 1: on his part or pragmatism on hers. I just hope

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Speaker 1: it made her voyage more comfortable. I have heard the

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Speaker 1: trip to the colony of New South Wales described as

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Speaker 1: akin to traveling to the Moon, a prospect which must

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Speaker 1: have been terrifying at times to a girl so young

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Speaker 1: when she arrived in New South Wales in June and

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Speaker 1: was about five months pregnant on the sixth of October

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Speaker 1: seventeen ninety four months after landing, and married Thomas, who

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Speaker 1: had arrived in the second fleet on the twenty eighth

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Speaker 1: of June. See On Board the Neptune. The treatment of

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Speaker 1: convicts aboard the Neptune has been described as the most

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Speaker 1: horrific in the history of transportation to Australia. They had

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Speaker 1: four children over the next six years. Baby James was

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Speaker 1: baptized in late November se but died the following January.

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Speaker 1: One of Anne's other children, William, died of a snake

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Speaker 1: bite when he was eleven. I can't imagine what a

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Speaker 1: strange and dangerous place Australia must have seen no snakes

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Speaker 1: in London. I'm gonna pause here and say, I know

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Speaker 1: I said that this, uh, this letter was uplifting, and

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Speaker 1: now we have just talked about the transportation of prisoners

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Speaker 1: and dead children. Just bear with me. I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't need to laugh at it. I'm laughing at Tracy's

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Speaker 1: joke that we have to hang in there because I am,

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Speaker 1: you know, choked up. I have the wet eyes over here. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm hanging in there. I'll confess. We had to stop

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Speaker 1: recording a second ago so because I had to compose myself.

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Speaker 1: So I have quite a few other convict ancestors too,

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Speaker 1: and they all did really well in the colony. Two

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Speaker 1: brothers convicted of highway robbery were later to become the

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Speaker 1: first sheriff's in a remote area patrolling against bush rangers.

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Speaker 1: Thomas and husband became a soldier in the New South

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Speaker 1: Wales Corps and tried his hand at farming on several

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Speaker 1: different land grants he received. He even ended up putting

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Speaker 1: notices in the newspaper warning against trespassers onto his land.

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Speaker 1: I find it really ironic that a former highway robber

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Speaker 1: would be so precious about his property. But I've always

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Speaker 1: believe that opportunity and hard work can lift a person

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Speaker 1: out of the circumstances into which they were born. This

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00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: was true for a great many of the colonists who

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Speaker 1: came to Australia, considered the worst of the worst in England.

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Speaker 1: They were able to serve their time and then be

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Speaker 1: given land in civic responsibilities in their new country that

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Speaker 1: they could never have imagined in England. I like to

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Speaker 1: hope that as Anne matured, became a wife, had children,

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Speaker 1: and farmed the land that she and Thomas acquired, that

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Speaker 1: she was grateful for the circumstances that brought her so far,

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Speaker 1: no matter how inauspicious they had initially seemed. And died

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Speaker 1: in eighteen twenty one, and Thomas in eighteen twenty four.

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Speaker 1: He was murdered by intruders who were not convicted due

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Speaker 1: to insufficient evidence. Their son and my ancestor, Henry, was

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Speaker 1: one of the ten men chosen to settle Australia's first

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Speaker 1: inland city, in eighteen fifteen. The bicentenary celebrations will be

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Speaker 1: held this year. Convict heritage is considered something to be

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Speaker 1: very proud of in Australia. I'm fascinated by all of

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Speaker 1: my ancestors and genealogy is a great passion, but I've

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Speaker 1: always had a soft spot for Anne and her story.

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Speaker 1: She was the first of my European ancestors to arrive

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Speaker 1: in Australia. Thank you for a wonderful episode with such

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Speaker 1: a special connection high regards Vanessa. So maybe not uplifting

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00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: all the way through, but I wanted to read it

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Speaker 1: because I love the tone of Yes, these circumstances were horrible,

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Speaker 1: but this led to being a family, and it leads

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Speaker 1: to being my family. There there are so many nuances

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Speaker 1: to that story, and so many aspects of uh the

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Speaker 1: colonization of Australia on the part of of Great Britain

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Speaker 1: that are are problematic and upsetting in a lot of

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Speaker 1: ways that when you get to the part of this

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Speaker 1: is a person in her family and this is her

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Speaker 1: family's story, like that is the part that is really

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Speaker 1: really touching to me. And that's the positive part and

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00:25:56,760 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: why I wanted to read it. Not all the snake

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00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: bites and the murders and the being sentenced to be

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Speaker 1: transported at the age of probably fourteen. Yeah, when I

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00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,360
Speaker 1: when we first got that email, the part that got

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00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: me choked up, And it's because of Vanessa's she has

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00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:15,359
Speaker 1: a really nice um writing tone. When she mentions that

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00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:18,680
Speaker 1: she hopes that the relationship that her her relatives struck

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00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: up with the sailor on the ship made her voyage

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Speaker 1: more comfortable. I so got a lump in my throat. Yeah,

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00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:30,399
Speaker 1: that's like. We we have had a fair amount of

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00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 1: listener mail talking about the relationships that women had on

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00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: the the ship and and how we should talk about them,

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Speaker 1: and uh, which ones were consensual and which ones definitely

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Speaker 1: we're not consensual, and this, like this letter is one

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Speaker 1: of the reasons. But I feel like it's important to

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Speaker 1: talk about all those things, but also important not to

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00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: paint all of them with the same brush. So you

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00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,120
Speaker 1: would like to write to us you are angry that

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00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:04,119
Speaker 1: we have this sad, sad episode and then also some

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00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: sadness in our listener mail. You can We're at History

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00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: Podcast at how Stuff Works dot com. We're also on

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00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: Facebook at Facebook dot com. Slash mt in History and

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at miss in history, are tumbler is missed

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Speaker 1: in history dot tumbler dot com, and are on Pinterest

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Speaker 1: at pinterest dot com slash miss in history. We have

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00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: a spreadshirt store if you're looking for some holiday gifts

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00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: for some history fans. It is at miss in history

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Speaker 1: dot spreadshirt dot com. UH. You can also learn a

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00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:33,439
Speaker 1: lot more about we talked about today by coming to

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00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: our parent company's website putting the word fire in the

468
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 1: search bar, and you will find how fire works. You

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00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: can also come to our website, which is miss in

470
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 1: history dot com and find uh episode show notes, and

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00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: an archive of all of the episodes, lots of other

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00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: interesting stuff. So you can do all that and a

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00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 1: whole lot more at how stuff works dot com or

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00:27:55,119 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: miss in history dot com for more on this thousands

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00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: of other topics because it has to have workstack home

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Speaker 1: e