1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:10,480 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Jeffrey Epstein murdered. Is their 2 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: proof tonight? A mysterious flash of orange and inmate caught 3 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 1: on camera going up the stairs to Jeffrey Epstein's tier 4 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: just before he's found dead. This as damning Google searches 5 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 1: emerge on the jailhouse guard's work computer about Epstein just 6 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: before his body is found that, along with mysterious cash deposits, 7 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: big cash deposits, the last one being five thousand dollars 8 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: deposited into the jailer's bank account, bags of shredded documents, 9 00:00:55,080 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: all this as new video evidence emerges. I mean to see, Grace, 10 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for 11 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: being with us tonight. With us. The single person left 12 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: in the world most likely to want the truth about 13 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:21,959 Speaker 1: what happened to Jeffrey Epstein, his blood relative, his own brother, 14 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,600 Speaker 1: is joining us. Mark Epstein, thank you for being with us. 15 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: My pleasure. 16 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: Mark, you have not sat back and digested what was 17 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:40,120 Speaker 1: being spoon fed to you by the Feds or the media. 18 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 1: I'd like to hear your analysis before I began peppering 19 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: you with questions as to whether your brother, Jeffrey Epstein 20 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: committed suicide. 21 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: Well, that doesn't seem to be a question anymore. It 22 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 2: was not a suicide. If you go back in time, 23 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,279 Speaker 2: when Jeffrey was first utopsy the day after they found 24 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: his body, the initial death certificate said on the cause 25 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 2: of death pending further study. They wouldn't call it a 26 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 2: suicide or a homicide at that point in time. But 27 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:16,960 Speaker 2: both of the pathologists that were there at the autopsy, 28 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: doctor Christin Roman, who was a city pathologist whose autopsy 29 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 2: it was, and Michael Boden, who was there on my behalf, 30 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 2: they came out of the autopsy saying that they couldn't 31 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: call it a suicide because it looked too much like 32 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 2: a homicide. That's what they said. I was there, they 33 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: were talking to me. That doesn't appear in the government report. Okay, 34 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 2: it said pending further study. When I've spoken to a 35 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 2: number of pathologists, they've always told me that if death 36 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 2: certificate says pending further study, you don't get an answer 37 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 2: usually for weeks or so because something's being investigated, some 38 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 2: studying is being done. That wasn't done here. They never 39 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 2: investigated Jeffrey's death anything other than a suicide, as they 40 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:08,080 Speaker 2: called it, because you know, the attorney Bill Barr, the 41 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 2: Attorney General at the time, came out and said that 42 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: he personally watched the videotape from outside of the tier. 43 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: Because we know the camera in the tier was not 44 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 2: working or was not recording. That story has changed. He 45 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 2: personally saw the videotape and he saw that nobody went 46 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: in or out of the tier, and that convinced him 47 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 2: it was a suicide. And when I heard that, I 48 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 2: realized this is a cover of some kind, because number one, 49 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 2: I thought, why is the Attorney general personally watching the videotape? 50 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 2: That didn't seem realistic. And also he completely ignored the 51 00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: possibility that if Jeffrey was killed, he could have been 52 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 2: killed by somebody that was already on the tier. There 53 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: were about twelve or so other inmates on the tier 54 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,280 Speaker 2: that would not have to go and come. Also, when 55 00:03:54,320 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 2: Bill bon made that statement, it leads you to believe 56 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: that you could see the door to the tier from 57 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 2: that camera outside of the tier. So if he saw 58 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,119 Speaker 2: the door and nobody went in or out, he could 59 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 2: say nobody went in or out. But with the release 60 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 2: of the videotapes, you know last year, you see number one, 61 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: you cannot see the door to the tier, and you 62 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 2: someone could go to that door and leave by staying 63 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 2: on the right hand side of the staircase that leads 64 00:04:21,279 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 2: up to the tier. And we know that there was 65 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: some orange blur, as they're calling it, either an innate 66 00:04:27,120 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 2: wearing orange or guards carrying sheets up the stairs which 67 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: go to that tier. So Bill Barr's statement that nobody 68 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:38,720 Speaker 2: went in or out of the tier is based on nothing. 69 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 2: And the fact that he ignored that somebody on the 70 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 2: tier would have done harm to somebody, you know, makes 71 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: his conclusion just ridiculous. And when I heard that, I said, 72 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 2: he's either part of a cover up or he's the 73 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 2: stupidest guy on the planet. No, Barr is complicit in 74 00:04:56,480 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 2: this cover up. In his recent congressional testimony, when he 75 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 2: was asked about doctor Barton's comment that, you know, he 76 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,960 Speaker 2: thought it was more of a homicide, Bill Boss said 77 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 2: under oath, he said doctor Barden came after the fact, 78 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:14,640 Speaker 2: That's what he said. I laughed when I heard that, 79 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: because Barden everyone knows Bonden was there for the entire autopsy. 80 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: Doctor Sampson, who was the chief Medical Examiner of New 81 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: York at the time, who called it a suicide. A 82 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: few days later, she came after the fact, she called 83 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: it a suicide, and she never saw the body. She 84 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 2: was not there. The two pathologists that did the autopsy 85 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 2: said it looked more like a homicide. Barbara Sampson, who 86 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 2: didn't see the body, said it was a suicide. And 87 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,920 Speaker 2: there's a lot of information on the autopsy that they 88 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: have ignored or tried to downplay. Now recently there's been 89 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:57,039 Speaker 2: two different teams of pathologists who have reviewed the autopsy results. 90 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 2: And they're not doing this on my behalf. I'm not 91 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 2: paying them. They contacted me. I gave them all the 92 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 2: information we had about the utopsy or the photographs or 93 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 2: the notes and everything, and they've concluded that this couldn't 94 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: have been a suicide, coming out with reports that are 95 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 2: being peer reviewed, and I'd like to give you more 96 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 2: information now, but I'm holding off until the peer review 97 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 2: is done, and don't release their reports and you'll see 98 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 2: that this was not a suicide. 99 00:06:22,279 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: Joining us is Jeffrey Epstein's brother, Mark Epstein. I believe 100 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: the single most motivated person in the world to find 101 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: out the truth regarding what happened to Jeffrey Epstein. When 102 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: he first started talking, he mentioned an orange flash video. 103 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: We're showing you right now there, guys, I just saw it. 104 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: Look carefully where we're showing you the highlighted circle. There 105 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: is someone dressed in orange going up the steps to 106 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: Epstein's tier. Now, this isn't something Mark Epstein made up 107 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: or I made up. This is a video analysis included 108 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: in the Epstein files. An FBI agent noticed the flash 109 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: of orange going up the stairs and stated, could possibly 110 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: be an inmate escorted up to that tier. Okay, now 111 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:31,679 Speaker 1: that threw everyone for a loop because, as you just heard, 112 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: Mark Epstein's state officials said, no one went up or 113 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: down the tier in the critical hours surrounding the critical 114 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: time where Epstein was killed. But yet there it is 115 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: someone going up the steps to his tear. So I guess, 116 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 1: Mark Epstein, you have observed that, and it's more than 117 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,200 Speaker 1: a flash. Let's see it again. A flash suggests maybe 118 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:03,040 Speaker 1: a camera flash or something quick. No, you see someone 119 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:07,679 Speaker 1: in orange, which is not a warden. They don't wear orange. 120 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: The inmates wear orange going up those steps. It's not 121 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 1: a flash. It is absolutely someone going up the steps. 122 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: When the fans told us that didn't happen, it did happen. Mark. 123 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: Now, also let me we see that one somebody else 124 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: could have gone up or down the stairs just by 125 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 2: staying to the right side of the staircase and they 126 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 2: wouldn't be captured on that camera at all. The fact 127 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: that we see that orange is because somebody was on 128 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 2: the far left hand side of that staircase. But we 129 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 2: don't know. Possibly many people could have gone up and 130 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: down into the tee. I'm not saying they did, but 131 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 2: for Bill Barr to say that nobody went in round 132 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 2: and that convinced them it was a suicide. But I 133 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 2: think that if I could say the dumbest thing I've 134 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: ever heard. 135 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: Well, I don't know whether to believe him or my 136 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: two lion eyes, because I know what I'm seeing. Another 137 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: point regarding someone going up and down those steps to 138 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: Epstein's tier. In the Inspector General's report the Inspector General 139 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 1: it details staffing failures and concluded a correctional officer believed 140 00:09:17,360 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: to be Noel who was the one who had these 141 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 1: bizarre Internet searches on the jailhouse computer, including just before 142 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:31,040 Speaker 1: his body's found. Latest on Epstein in jail that was 143 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: just before the body's found and then again the same morning. 144 00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 1: That's pretty damning. But that said, the Inspector General said, well, 145 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: that had to be Noel, the warden going up and 146 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:49,839 Speaker 1: down the steps carrying inmate linen or bedding. Okay, that's 147 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: not true. Let's see it again. Because the wardens the 148 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: jail staff do not wear prison orange. That is not 149 00:09:59,840 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: a jail employee carrying lenin. And not only that, Noel 150 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: swore she did not know why Epstein had extra lenin. Remember, 151 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:18,400 Speaker 1: reportedly lenin was used to kill him. And the Inspector 152 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: General says, oh, this is somebody taking extra lenin up 153 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: to an inmate. She says, she never gives out lenin 154 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 1: because that's done on the prior shift. Okay, what does 155 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: that tell you, Mark Epstein. 156 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 2: Well, one of the things about the gods that's interesting too. 157 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 2: We know about the two gods that got into trouble 158 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 2: for falsifying the records and not doing their rounds. It 159 00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 2: was Tovin, Noell and Michael Thomas. We know that Michael 160 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 2: Thomas came on shift late at night. Okay, So there's 161 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: never ever just one god there, that's prison policy. So 162 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,760 Speaker 2: there was another god there earlier in the night with 163 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 2: Tovin Noel until Michael Thomas got there, so he also 164 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,479 Speaker 2: had to be part of the cover up and falsifying 165 00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 2: records and not doing the rounds. Why have we not 166 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 2: heard about him? I mean, his name is just recently surfaced. 167 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 2: But why was he not charged like Tovin Noell and 168 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: Michael Thomas were. Why did he get special treatment and 169 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 2: why was he not questioned or brought to the public 170 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 2: eye that he also was part of this conspiracy to 171 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:28,400 Speaker 2: falsify records. There's just so much missing information about this 172 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,720 Speaker 2: and so much nonsense that if this was truly a suicide, 173 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 2: it would be easy, there'd be no reason for this 174 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 2: lying and obscurrication. It's just crazy, you know, There's there's 175 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:40,599 Speaker 2: a lot of more information for in For instance, here's 176 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 2: an interesting that you're talking about videotapes. The FBI went 177 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 2: into the prison to swap out the hard drives from 178 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 2: the recording system. They were told by the technicians that 179 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 2: if they swapped out the hard drives, they're going to 180 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 2: lose all of the information that was on the hard drives. 181 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 2: Yet they swapped out the hard drives anyhow, and they 182 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 2: lost the information that was preserved on those hard drives. 183 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 2: Also there was I was told that there was somebody 184 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 2: with a handheld video camera there the whole time. That's 185 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 2: also part of prison protocol when something like this happens, 186 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 2: someone's there with a handheld video camera. And I was 187 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 2: told that the person was also in the infirmary where 188 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 2: they took Jeffrey's body, and also in the hospital where 189 00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 2: they took Jeff's body. We can't get the footage from 190 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 2: that camera. Now we know it also exists because we've 191 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 2: seen some pictures of them working on Jeff's body. Okay, 192 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 2: those pictures, those still pictures had to come from the 193 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 2: video tape from that handheld camera, but we can't get 194 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,839 Speaker 2: the rest of the footage from that camera. Everything's gone, 195 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: everything's hidden, disappeared. Yeah, we were never able to get 196 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 2: the nine one one call that was made from the 197 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 2: prison when they found Jeff's body. You know, we've heard 198 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 2: nine one one calls from you know, George Floyd and 199 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:53,080 Speaker 2: a lot of other high profile cases. That's never hidden here. 200 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 2: We never were able to get the nine one one call. 201 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 2: There's just so much missing informations, tons of stuff that's 202 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:00,360 Speaker 2: coming in now. 203 00:13:00,920 --> 00:13:06,360 Speaker 1: Another issue that has reared its ugly head is damning 204 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: Google searches just before Epstein's body is found, and then 205 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: ten minutes later, and the significance is they were searched. 206 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: These searches occurred on Tova Noell's work desktop computer, the 207 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: latest on Epstein in jail, just before his body is found, 208 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:37,839 Speaker 1: and then ten minutes later. When Noel was asked about 209 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: the searches, she said she didn't remember anything about that 210 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,760 Speaker 1: and was quote very surprised those searches were on her 211 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: computer and that was the time she was sitting at 212 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: her computer. Also, let me ask Mark Epstein, this is 213 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein's brother who was convinced Jeffrey Epstein did not 214 00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 1: commit suicide. What about the cash deposits five thousand dollars 215 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:13,120 Speaker 1: each and tobno Well's bank account and now we still 216 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: don't know the purpose of the payments. What do you 217 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: think about that multiple deposits at least twelve five thousand 218 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: dollars was the last one, and her bank account? What's that? 219 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: And it's all cash? 220 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 2: Mark Well, I have no idea where that came from. 221 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 2: And I don't like speculating. If people have heard me 222 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: talk before, they know I like to stick to the facts. 223 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 2: But a question that pops into my mind is we 224 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: know that Jeffrey made a telephone call night before he died. 225 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: You know, in the evening, they let him make a 226 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,680 Speaker 2: call from the shower area in the prison. Now, I 227 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: just questioned, did they let him make a phone call 228 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 2: out of the goodness of their heart or were they 229 00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:00,080 Speaker 2: paid to allow that to take place? I don't know. Oh, 230 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 2: but that's a question that's popped into my mind. Why 231 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 2: would they let him make a phone call, an unauthorized, 232 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 2: unrecorded phone call in the maximum security prison. That also 233 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 2: doesn't sort of pass the left test from. 234 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: The it wasn't one of those calls from the bathroom, 235 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: did you say. 236 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, from the believe it was the shower area. 237 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, Why do you send an inmate unsupervised to the 238 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,240 Speaker 1: shower to make private cell phone calls? 239 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 2: He told them, supposedly that he was calling his mother. 240 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 2: This was in twenty nineteen. Our mother passed away in 241 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 2: two thousand and four. 242 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: Another issue mark is the fact that in a case 243 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 1: it is so high profile, of all things missing is 244 00:15:44,240 --> 00:15:52,720 Speaker 1: the alleged noose. After extensive searches, the news was not identified. 245 00:15:53,080 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: We see that, but questions have lingered. 246 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, went on that topic. Nancy, doctor Roman, who did 247 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 2: the autopsy. We recently got her deposition. She was questioned afterwards, 248 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: and in her deposition she said she was told not 249 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 2: to take DNA evidence and she was prohibited from going 250 00:16:15,480 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 2: to the crime scene. Highly unusual in a case like 251 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 2: that would have trying to find a cause of death. 252 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 2: Why was she prohibited from seeing the crime scene the 253 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 2: first What the crime scene was completely destroyed before anybody 254 00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 2: got there. They should not have moved Jeff's body. Another question. 255 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 2: When they found Jeffrey, we know he was dead for 256 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 2: at least a couple of hours because if you've seen 257 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 2: the picture of the groove in his neck, the fact 258 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 2: that the groove in his neck is stayed in his 259 00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 2: neck it's indented, means he had to be dead for 260 00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 2: a couple of hours at least, because if you've straggled 261 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 2: somebody and just released them, your skin would flatten out 262 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 2: because you still have self pressure inside. Your skin is 263 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 2: still supple and flexible, But after a couple of hours, 264 00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 2: your skin starts to dry out and more to start 265 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 2: setting in. So that's how we know he was dead 266 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 2: for at least two hours. So why the nonsense attempt 267 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 2: to make it look like he was revivable. Why you know, 268 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 2: they intbated him. There's a picture of them wheeling him out, 269 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: you know, squeezing an air balloon, putting air into his lungs. 270 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 2: This guy's been dead for at least a couple of 271 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,399 Speaker 2: hours at this point in time, more so because it 272 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 2: was a couple of hours when they found him, and 273 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 2: by the time they're moving him out of the prison 274 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 2: to go to the hospital, it's got to be another 275 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 2: half hour. You know, this guy's not coming back. And 276 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 2: then I have a photograph of him in the prison, 277 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 2: laying on a gurney on his back, you know, his body. 278 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,360 Speaker 2: He's dead and he's wearing a hospital gown. So who 279 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 2: decided to dress a dead body in the hospital gown? 280 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 2: Normally dead bodies are either in body bags or covered 281 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 2: by a sheet. You know, they had to actually put 282 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 2: his arms through the sleeves of his hospital gowns to 283 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 2: kind of tie in the back. You know, it's like, 284 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 2: why the charade of trying to make it look like 285 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 2: he was you know, salvagible when he was dead for 286 00:17:58,600 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 2: a couple of hours. 287 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:02,600 Speaker 1: Mark, What do you make of new video that has 288 00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: emerged showing guards meeling around with your brother just a 289 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: few feet away in his cell instead of making their 290 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: mandatory rounds. Why were they there. 291 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 2: I don't know the answer to that question. It's a 292 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: good question. There's also the issue of the head count. 293 00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,439 Speaker 2: You know, before Jeffrey's death there was a headcount. There 294 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,360 Speaker 2: was seventy three prisoners on the tier. The next day 295 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 2: there was seventy two prisoners on the tier according to 296 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 2: the official headcount, and there's no record of somebody being 297 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 2: taken off. So where who's the missing prisoner? 298 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 1: Mark Epstein? What is the main reason you're convinced your 299 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: brother did not commit suicide. 300 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,080 Speaker 2: Well, from the scientific results of the study of the autopsy, 301 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 2: you know, the angle of the mark on his neck 302 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 2: is not what you would find if he was hanging 303 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 2: the way they said he was hanging. Yeah, there's also 304 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 2: other parts of There's like a bruise on his act 305 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 2: which is on the autopsy but has been ignored by 306 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 2: the d OJ's report. They think that's a defensive wound. 307 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 2: They think that there was a bit of a struggle 308 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 2: and Jeffrey was strangled, and the other things that will 309 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 2: come out when these reports come out that will cement that. 310 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: Crime. Stores, with Nancy Gray joining us tonight. Jeffrey Epstein's 311 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: brother Mark Epstein convinced his brother did not commit suicide. 312 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: You also stated that other groups have been sending you 313 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 1: information regarding homicide. 314 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,000 Speaker 2: Oh, I get a lot of information. People send me 315 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,960 Speaker 2: a lot of information. Most of it is unverifiable, and 316 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 2: you know that doesn't really account too much, but it's 317 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 2: other information comes in and it's valuable. It's like the 318 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 2: people that are studying the autopsy, you know, their opinions 319 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,200 Speaker 2: based on facts. I don't like to speculate on anything. 320 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 2: I like to stick to the facts. And then, you know, 321 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 2: comparing all of this stuff to all the literature out 322 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 2: there and the photographs, and they're concluding that this was 323 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 2: not suicide the way they're trying to make it off, 324 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 2: make it out to be okay. Also, you know, Jeffrey 325 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 2: had a hearing coming up. He was trying to appeal 326 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 2: the bail decision, and he was putting up enough assets 327 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:32,159 Speaker 2: they would have been the highest bail ever in US history. 328 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 2: So there's a chance maybe he would have gotten bail, 329 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 2: which might have been unpalatable to some people. But he 330 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 2: might have gotten bailed. Why would he kill himself? Before 331 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 2: that hearing, which would have been in the next week 332 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 2: or two times. You know, I because if he got bailed, 333 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,240 Speaker 2: he'd be living in his house. He'd have an ankle 334 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:52,560 Speaker 2: monitor on with armed guards, and you know, he'd surrender 335 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 2: pair sports the camera set up so he couldn't go anywhere. 336 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:59,320 Speaker 2: I don't think he'd be a flight risk anyhow, And 337 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 2: why would he kill himself before that hearing? I could see, Okay, 338 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 2: if he had the hearing and bail was denied again 339 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 2: and he didn't want to spend a year in jail 340 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 2: awaiting a trial, I could see, then take yourself out. Well, 341 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 2: So let me be really clear. When I first heard 342 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 2: that Jeffrey was dead from an apparent suicide, I believed it. 343 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 2: I had no reason to doubt it. I just thought that, well, 344 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,919 Speaker 2: he decided to take himself out. He didn't want to 345 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,679 Speaker 2: be in jail. Life in jail is a pedophile, is 346 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 2: no fun for anybody, And these are all things that 347 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 2: might have been playing on his head. So there was 348 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:31,479 Speaker 2: no reason for me to doubt it. But when they 349 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 2: did the autopsy the next day and the two highly 350 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 2: qualified pathologists said they can't call it a suicide because 351 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 2: it looks too much like a homicide. That's when I'm like, well, 352 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 2: what's going on here? And that's when we started looking 353 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 2: into things. And the more we look, the more it 354 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:50,439 Speaker 2: shows that wasn't a suicide. I say with Cash Patel 355 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,359 Speaker 2: in his recent testimony, he said that when he was 356 00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 2: asked about this, he said, you know his suicide when 357 00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:59,000 Speaker 2: you see one. That's what he said. And I actually laughed. 358 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,760 Speaker 2: I thought, how many suicides as has actually seen? That 359 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 2: makes him the expert. Also, he was not there, he 360 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: didn't see the body, he wasn't at the crime scene. 361 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:10,879 Speaker 2: So just what the hell is he talking about. 362 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 1: We have been told over and over and over no 363 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,399 Speaker 1: one had access to Jeffrey Epstein's cell at the time 364 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: he was killed. I want you to look at video. 365 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: And this video is not something that crime stories came 366 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 1: up with. This is directly from FBI files that the 367 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:37,320 Speaker 1: public forced the government to release. And in the FBI 368 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 1: files it states that this is an independent review of footage. 369 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: It confirmed Epstein was in his cell. End quote, nobody 370 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: entered the tears. But yet here we see a quote 371 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: flash of orange. An FBI agent noted the quote flash 372 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,679 Speaker 1: of orange ascending going up the stairs and state it 373 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 1: could possibly be an inmate escorted up to the tier, 374 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: and in the same document, the FBI says it is 375 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: possibly staff carrying inmate linen or betting up the stairs. Well, 376 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: I can tell you this right now. Employees of the 377 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 1: jail do not wear prison orange. That did not happen. 378 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,680 Speaker 1: I'd like to see the video one more time. It's 379 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: amazing to me that in the Epstein files it is 380 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: stated that no one had access going up or down 381 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: to Epstein's tier. Yet here we see it with our 382 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: own eyes straight out to investigative journalist author of Down 383 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,639 Speaker 1: the Hill, Susan Hendricks, where did the video come from? 384 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, it came from surveillance inside of the prison where 385 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 3: Jeffrey Epstein was, and that footage came from a little 386 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 3: before ten. They noticed that, and the two guards just 387 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 3: coincidentally stopped looking in on Epstein from ten forty to 388 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 3: six thirty am. 389 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: So what is that? What is that? 390 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,159 Speaker 4: And the female security guard was questioned, could that be 391 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 4: you with Lenin's She said, no, that's the shift before us. 392 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,679 Speaker 4: That wasn't me with Lenon's. Well it's something, who is 393 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 4: it and what is it? 394 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,439 Speaker 1: Well, obviously it's a person. So I've got the answer 395 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: as to what I know. It's not a guard because 396 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 1: guards do not wear the same outfit as the inmates 397 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: in any see, I mean straight out to doctor Dwayne 398 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 1: Hendricks joining US former warden at MDC in Brooklyn, also 399 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: Warden Sheridan, Oregon, former senior warden US Department of Justice, founder, 400 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:52,680 Speaker 1: president a New Daylight Foundation, and author. You certainly are 401 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,959 Speaker 1: busy of who are you? See it? Say it, seize it? 402 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: Doctor Hendrix, Please give me the reader's digest version of 403 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: why employees at the jail do not wear prison. 404 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:11,239 Speaker 5: Orange, simply because if everybody wore the same outfit, then 405 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 5: inmates will be running in and out of jail and 406 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 5: you wouldn't be able to account for the individuals that 407 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,920 Speaker 5: are in your custody. So that's the basic, simple reason 408 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 5: why staff are not wearing the same clothing as those 409 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 5: inmates that are incarcerated, and. 410 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: That is sp standard operating procedure across the country. You 411 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 1: may be at the federal pen, you may be in supermax, 412 00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:41,960 Speaker 1: you may be in the Maybury County Jail with Otis 413 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:47,439 Speaker 1: and Barney and Andy. No prison employee wears the same 414 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: thing as the inmates because the inmate and the jailers 415 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 1: have to be spotted visually immediately if there is a 416 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: jail uprising, if there is a lock down, if there 417 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 1: is an a gate, you have to be able to 418 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 1: immediately identify who is who? Right? Yes, yes, so bottom line, 419 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 1: Doctor Hendrix, is there any way in H E Double 420 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,440 Speaker 1: L that that is a jailer going up the stairs 421 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: to Jeffrey Epstein's tier dressed in orange. 422 00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,400 Speaker 5: No, to take your words out of your mouth, there 423 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 5: is no way in HT double L that that would 424 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 5: be a staff member dressed as an inmate. The only 425 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 5: way that that would even possibly occur, and that would 426 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,240 Speaker 5: be in another unit where staff are doing some sort 427 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 5: of scenario, some sort of training or something like that. 428 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 6: But obviously that wasn't. 429 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: Ten o'clock at night. They're having a staff training episode. 430 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: What are you put him up? 431 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 6: No, I'm going to just. 432 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: Throw you in the pot with all the conspiracy theories. 433 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 5: Trying to say, is the only time staff would even 434 00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 5: dress like an inmate is if they were doing some 435 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:57,400 Speaker 5: sort of training scenario. 436 00:26:57,600 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 6: But they wouldn't be doing this training. 437 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 5: Scenario in the Special Home at ten forty at night 438 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 5: on a Saturday or Friday, whatever, day, that was whatever 439 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,560 Speaker 5: weekend that was when he actually allegedly committed suicide. 440 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 6: So, no, that is not a staff member. 441 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: Hendrix, Do you know what you just did? You just 442 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: spoon said with a silver spoon all the conspiracy theorists 443 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,200 Speaker 1: out there. Thanks. Okay, this was not a training activity. 444 00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: I don't know where he even got that no offense, 445 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:30,439 Speaker 1: but that that's crazy talk a training you know what. 446 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: I'm gonna let you sit there and think about what 447 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:34,959 Speaker 1: you just said. That is not an employee. I want 448 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: to see it one more time, please, that is an inmate? 449 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:44,080 Speaker 1: What inmate? Who? As Susan Hendricks just said, who is it? 450 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: Someone dressed like an inmate? Is at an inmate? Is 451 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: it the inmate that threatened to murder Jeffrey Epstein in 452 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: the past. Well, according to the FBI, we don't see 453 00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,960 Speaker 1: anything that's not real. That didn't happen. Okay, back to 454 00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: Susan Hendrix, I want to talk to you about those 455 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 1: damning Google searches on the jailers. Weren't place computer right 456 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:15,280 Speaker 1: there around the corner of Jeffrey Epstein's dead body? What happened? 457 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was five point forty two and one of 458 00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:23,399 Speaker 3: the guards Google search latest on Epstein in jail. 459 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 4: Meanwhile, they're literally fifteen feet from where they were supposed 460 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 4: to be walking by doing searches. Well, she said, I 461 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,280 Speaker 4: don't remember doing Google searches that day. That's weird, that's 462 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 4: Rosha said, that's odd. It's easy. I would think to 463 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:42,040 Speaker 4: be a conspiracy theorist here because it's one thing after another, 464 00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 4: and the two guards there who were supposed to be working, 465 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,280 Speaker 4: there's a two hour chunk that they were found sleeping. 466 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 4: I've worked overnights in the news business. You don't just 467 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 4: doze off. Something's odd there, and I could see how 468 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,440 Speaker 4: conspiracy theorists would run with this. In the cell, Nancy Coomni, 469 00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 4: the linens are there, the orange linens. I was thinking 470 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 4: the blur was some one carrying extra linits to Jeffrey 471 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 4: Epstein to be able to do what he did. 472 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: If he did it well, according to the jailers, that 473 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,640 Speaker 1: did not happen. No extra ones were taken to him. 474 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: To Angelous joining us high profile lawyer out of Palm 475 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 1: Beach with this whole thing blue wide open with Epstein's 476 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,800 Speaker 1: first conviction for child abuse sex with children, partner Circe 477 00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:25,760 Speaker 1: Law Firm, Palm Beach former felony prosecutor. She worked in 478 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: the Palm Beach County State's Attorney's office, where Epstein was prosecuted. 479 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 1: I'm happy to say she had nothing to do with 480 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: that debacle. Angel Lewis. When somebody says to me, Wow, 481 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 1: that's weird. That's like waving a red flag in front 482 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: of a bull, I want an answer. Why was Tova 483 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: Noel that's the name of the jailer googling Jeff Epstein 484 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,480 Speaker 1: behind bars just before his body was found, and then 485 00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:00,920 Speaker 1: ten minutes later, why And then she says, Wow, how'd 486 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,720 Speaker 1: that get on there? I don't remember that happening. 487 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 7: Bs Nancy, you are one hundred percent right. 488 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: And to make matters. 489 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 7: Even worse, not only was she making these very strange 490 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 7: Google searches, but the timing is key because at those 491 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 7: very moments she was supposed to be doing rounds and 492 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,000 Speaker 7: actually checking in on him, and she didn't. This was 493 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 7: the perfect storm of failures that is so crazy it 494 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 7: is almost unbelievable. And that it's the failure to check, 495 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 7: it's the lack of inmate that was in there despite 496 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 7: their being orders, the camera system failure at the very 497 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 7: time of his death, he's left alone. This is all certainly, 498 00:30:53,960 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 7: certainly the foundation for many conspiracy theories, but it really 499 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 7: gives you pause here. And I think we have to 500 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,280 Speaker 7: keep in mind too. Any one of these things would 501 00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 7: be suspicious, but they all happen simon simultaneously. What are 502 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 7: the odds of that? 503 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 1: Also, there is a matter of the missing noose. I 504 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: have been in many many jails. I've been in GV jails, 505 00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 1: local jails when people are waiting trial. I've been in 506 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: maximum security facilities and every CI correctional institute between. I 507 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 1: have never seen the wreck like what was in Jeffrey 508 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: Epstein's jail cell. This is simply disallowed, doctor Hendrix. 509 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 6: Yes it is. 510 00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: This is a hot mess. 511 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 5: I mean, first of all, he had put him up. 512 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:59,440 Speaker 1: Are you smoking tonight? Is mess? Yes, you don't say 513 00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: something like that under oath. What that is is a 514 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: security risk. That is a security and a flight risk. 515 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,000 Speaker 1: I mean, getting down on it, man. 516 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 5: You're absolutely they took the other inmate. His cellmate left 517 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:19,479 Speaker 5: either earlier in the day or the day before, so 518 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 5: I see that they took the person's mattress out. So 519 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,920 Speaker 5: there was no way, no reason for Epstein to have 520 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 5: all these meds and all the other materials on one 521 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 5: on top of the cell, and then all these extra linens. 522 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 5: Someone gave him extra linens. There is no way possible 523 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 5: that you know. And I looked at some of the 524 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 5: documentation in the Epstein files with their staff are saying no, 525 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 5: I didn't give him any extra linars of this and 526 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 5: that and the other. Someone gave him some extra materials 527 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,920 Speaker 5: to have all this garb and trash and everything else. 528 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 5: I mean, this is this is the nastiest you know, doctor. 529 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 6: Hendrix, I've seen in my in my life. In correct, 530 00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 6: do you. 531 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: Know what it looks like. It looks to me that 532 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:07,200 Speaker 1: someone has just thrown all of these linens, all of 533 00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: this into his room haphazardly, because an inmate would not 534 00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: be allowed to have all this in the room, and 535 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: it's a security risk to him and other inmates. It's 536 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 1: a flight risk. I mean, how do I know he's 537 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: not going to tie it all together and go down 538 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,239 Speaker 1: the side of the building for Pete's sake. That may 539 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,360 Speaker 1: be impossible at NBC. But that said, that's just one 540 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 1: example of why inmates are not allowed to have all 541 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: this in the room, which leads me to a conclusion 542 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 1: or a question was it all in the room? When 543 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:45,280 Speaker 1: did it all get there? Before or after? His body 544 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:50,240 Speaker 1: is found? Because Susan Hendrix nobody found the noose, did they? 545 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: How can that be? The man is strangled dead, somebody 546 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: took the noose off of his neck? Where is it? 547 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: It wasn't there when he got to the medical ER's office, 548 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:01,480 Speaker 1: So where is it? 549 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 3: So one of the guards, Michael Thomas, Nancy went in 550 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,960 Speaker 3: and said, it took all of his strength to get 551 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:12,720 Speaker 3: that noose away from Jeffrey Epstein's throat, to get that off. 552 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 3: Then when the female came in nova, she said, I 553 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 3: didn't see any noose around his neck. Then when he's 554 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 3: brought to the medical examiner, she said it was a 555 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,759 Speaker 3: bare neck and she was handed something like here it is. 556 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 4: This is the news that she said. There were no 557 00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 4: tears in it, that it seemed just like kind of 558 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 4: a round circle. Here it is. This is what was 559 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 4: around his neck? Where is it? Did that guard Michael 560 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:37,359 Speaker 4: Thomas rip it off the neck? He won't comment now 561 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 4: about it, but they had a plead deal. There's so 562 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 4: many unanswered questions, Nancy, and that's. 563 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: A human life. 564 00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 2: Where is. 565 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace straight out to a special 566 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: guest joining us tonight. Doctor Kendall Crowns. Doctor Kendall Crowns 567 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,919 Speaker 1: is the chief medical examiner for Terrance County, Texas. That's 568 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: Fort Worth. Never a lack of business in the Morgue 569 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 1: at Fort Worth. He is the star of hit podcast 570 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: Mayhem in the Morgue, and he is an esteemed lecturer 571 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: at the Burnett School of Medicine at TCU. Doctor Kendall Crowns, 572 00:35:29,280 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 1: from the get go, I have said, the wound going 573 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,560 Speaker 1: straight across his neck is not consistent with a hanging, 574 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 1: even a hanging from the back of your bed. But 575 00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 1: according to what Epstein's brother Mark tells me, the initial autopsy, 576 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,680 Speaker 1: the medical examiner said, point blank, it looks like a suicide. 577 00:35:55,880 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 1: It could be a suicide, and they delayed room, I 578 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:03,959 Speaker 1: want to hear your analysis. Take your time. 579 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 6: Well, let's first start with the delayed ruling. 580 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 8: Anytime a medical examiner DeLay's ruling means they're thinking about 581 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 8: the investigative information and trying to make a decision that 582 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 8: they didn't just say, oh, this is totally a hanging suicide. 583 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 8: There was more to it that they were thinking over. 584 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,880 Speaker 8: The other problem is is looking at the photograph that 585 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 8: a hanging, if it's a suspension type ligature hanging, it 586 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,359 Speaker 8: will pull up. The ligature will actually pull up and 587 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,080 Speaker 8: create a V shaped structure. 588 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 6: On the net. 589 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 8: It will also slide up underneath the chin as well. 590 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,400 Speaker 8: You're not seeing that in the pictures. What you're seeing 591 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 8: is it's pulling straight back and it's almost as if 592 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:50,480 Speaker 8: someone is pulling it from behind, crushing his neck. And 593 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,960 Speaker 8: then you add on to the fact that he has 594 00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:56,360 Speaker 8: the fractures of the thyroid bones, the fractures of the hyoid, 595 00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 8: which are very unlike hanging. 596 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 6: They can't occur, but not to that extent. So you've got. 597 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:08,000 Speaker 8: Multiple fractures of the highwaid bone of the thyroidcarlage fracture 598 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 8: of the highway bone, a horizontal ligature impression, it's not 599 00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:16,880 Speaker 8: tipping up. It all doesn't fit with a suspension type hanging. 600 00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 8: It kind of fits with someone pulling it from behind. 601 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 8: And also there's some claim that you know, it's a 602 00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,200 Speaker 8: cloth ligature and he. 603 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 6: Could have leaned into it. 604 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,239 Speaker 8: Again, if he's leaning into it, he weighs one hundred 605 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,560 Speaker 8: and ninety six pounds, you know it wouldn't have caused 606 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,800 Speaker 8: those type of injuries we're seeing, it's all very suspicious. 607 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 8: And even looking at the picture itself of the ligature, 608 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:43,920 Speaker 8: it has a. 609 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 6: Pattern to it that looks wavy. 610 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,360 Speaker 8: And if it's this cloth that keeps being shown in 611 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,400 Speaker 8: the pictures, I don't see the wavingess to the pattern 612 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 8: on the ligature that matches to that cloth. 613 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,000 Speaker 6: So it's all very very suspicious. 614 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:02,560 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendle Crowns, you got ahead of me when you're 615 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:07,480 Speaker 1: talking about the wavy nature. Could you repeat that very slowly? 616 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 8: So when you're looking at the deep ligature furrow in 617 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,959 Speaker 8: the picture on the I think it's on the left. 618 00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:17,400 Speaker 8: If you look at the kind of the black and 619 00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 8: the red to it, it has a waviness look to 620 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,960 Speaker 8: it that doesn't fit with that cloth type ligature. Also 621 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:27,560 Speaker 8: with cloth ligatures that are usually soft and they don't 622 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 8: dig into the neck as much as you're seeing there. 623 00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,799 Speaker 8: And if it was indeed that ligature, it to me 624 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 8: looks like it's pulled very tightly. And then the knot 625 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,759 Speaker 8: itself is not a slip knot, so it wouldn't have 626 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 8: tightly wrapped around his neck. 627 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:42,320 Speaker 6: It's a thick knot. 628 00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:47,719 Speaker 8: So there's so many inconsistencies with a hanging suicide that 629 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 8: it makes me pause too and want more information, see 630 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 8: more pictures to make a decision, much like the medical 631 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,160 Speaker 8: examiners did in New York. They took their time to 632 00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 8: make the decision. So it makes me question of what 633 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 8: were they thinking and why did they take so much 634 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 8: time to call it a suicide. 635 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crowns, we were just showing a photo of 636 00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 1: the back of Epstein's neck. What could account for that? 637 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 8: So again, it's to me, that looks like if it 638 00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 8: was a hanging ligature. 639 00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 6: You wouldn't see that in the back of the neck. 640 00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 8: Because the ligature would be pulling up and creating this 641 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 8: kind of vis exactly shape on the back that to 642 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 8: me looks like it's being pulled by someone from behind, 643 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:37,880 Speaker 8: creating those abrasions on the side of the neck that 644 00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 8: you're seeing in those pictures. 645 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 6: And then you add on the fact that his. 646 00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:44,759 Speaker 8: Wrists have bruises on him, you gotta wonder if he 647 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 8: was being restrained while he was being strangled. I mean, 648 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 8: there's a lot. 649 00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,719 Speaker 1: Of hold on, hold on, I don't want that to 650 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,799 Speaker 1: get lost in the sauce. Marks on the wrist explained. 651 00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 8: So there's described in the autops here or two contusions 652 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 8: on the wrist. So these contusions on the wrists, what 653 00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:09,520 Speaker 8: are they from? Are is he handcuffed? Has he been tied? 654 00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,120 Speaker 8: I mean, are his hands restrained in some way while 655 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:14,239 Speaker 8: they're strangling them. 656 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,080 Speaker 6: It's all again very suspect. 657 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 1: Doctor Kimler Crown's you have handled many many homicides by 658 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:29,000 Speaker 1: ligatures strangulation. You have handled many many suicides by hanging. 659 00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:35,880 Speaker 1: And when you say it kind of looks like ligatuist strangulation. See, 660 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,080 Speaker 1: I can't put you on the stand if that's what 661 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:43,600 Speaker 1: you're gonna say, it kind of looks it does look 662 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,360 Speaker 1: like ligatures strangulation. I'm a JD, not an MD, and 663 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 1: even I could see that on day one with a 664 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 1: hanging a suicide, you have a smiley face. You call 665 00:40:54,080 --> 00:40:57,160 Speaker 1: it a v you have from here like that, that's 666 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:04,200 Speaker 1: what you have done. Closed with legature strangulation from behind, 667 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 1: you often see a pullback and you see a straight mark. 668 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 1: There's no way that that cloth noose left that mark 669 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:18,919 Speaker 1: on his neck. That did not happen. It doesn't kind 670 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,040 Speaker 1: of look like it. 671 00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 8: It is three with you, Nancy, but you are limited 672 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,319 Speaker 8: by the information that were provided. I would like to 673 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,920 Speaker 8: see more information before I could give a definitive. 674 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 1: Bags of shredded documents. Multiple cash deposits into these jailers accounts. 675 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,800 Speaker 1: What first tell me about the money, Susan Hendricks. 676 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, twelve cash deposits between April twenty eighteen and July thirtieth, 677 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 4: twenty nineteen in one of the guard's bank accounts. To me, 678 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 4: the screens incentive. One of the last payments was for 679 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 4: five thousand dollars and it was flagged by the FBI. 680 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 4: She's on probation now to avoid j To me, it 681 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,080 Speaker 4: points to incentive on the reason why you would do it. 682 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,320 Speaker 1: And it's not just five thousand dollars, it's five thousand 683 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: dollars in cash. Who goes around and I'm sure there 684 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,840 Speaker 1: are people, but who who goes around with five thousand 685 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 1: dollars cash to put in this jailer? The one who 686 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: was looking up Jeffrey Epstein in jail the latest, just 687 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,480 Speaker 1: moments before his body's found. The one that swears she 688 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:33,080 Speaker 1: didn't carry linen in I mean, it's just too much 689 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 1: to doctor Bethany Marshall joining us renowned Psychoalys out of 690 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,560 Speaker 1: the LA jurisdiction. She is the author of deal Breakers. 691 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,799 Speaker 1: You can see her now on Peacock and Bravo, and 692 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:48,799 Speaker 1: you can find her at doctor Bethanymarshall dot com. Cash deposits, 693 00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 1: the last one five grand. Now here's the tricky thing. 694 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: If somebody said, hey, who put one thousand dollars in 695 00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:57,719 Speaker 1: your account? I could look at it and go, oh, 696 00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: I know what that was. That was the reef on 697 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,879 Speaker 1: first blah blah blah. But we still don't have an 698 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: answer as to these multiple deposits, including five grand and 699 00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,360 Speaker 1: cash into her account. 700 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 9: Hopefully, Nancy, there were cameras in whatever branch of the 701 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,919 Speaker 9: bank that cash was deposited, but Nancy, so many things 702 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:19,960 Speaker 9: don't make sense from a psychological point of. 703 00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,239 Speaker 1: View, Tova. 704 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:26,000 Speaker 9: This guard was searching not only Jeffrey Epstein, but as 705 00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:30,840 Speaker 9: you can see on the computer search USA jobs, Ashley furniture. 706 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 9: So it makes me wonder if she was already planning 707 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 9: on going to a new job or to make a 708 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:42,600 Speaker 9: huge furniture purchase. So that's suspicious. The fact that there's 709 00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 9: all the medication right on top of his bunk bed. 710 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:52,000 Speaker 9: You do not leave medication in any jail person sell 711 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:56,080 Speaker 9: because they could overdose or suicide. Medications like that are 712 00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 9: dispensed by some kind of medical staff. All the linens 713 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 9: that are thrown in there, it sounds like somebody's like 714 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:08,360 Speaker 9: kind of stirred up the room in some way so 715 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,640 Speaker 9: as to camouflage what might have already happened. In other words, 716 00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,960 Speaker 9: they're staging it to look like Epstein was messy, but 717 00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:19,680 Speaker 9: in fact, it looks like there was a struggle. To me, Nancy, 718 00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 9: you know, Nancy, you and I have seen the inside 719 00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 9: of Zoro Ranch, of the Island, of the beautiful home 720 00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 9: in Manhattan. Those houses were spectacular and well appointed and 721 00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,040 Speaker 9: neat You cannot tell me that Jeffrey Epstein would have 722 00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,680 Speaker 9: allowed his own cell to look like that. Everything would 723 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 9: have been neatly folded, the bed would have been made. 724 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:50,480 Speaker 9: And in terms of suicidality, Nancy, narcissists and zosipaths only 725 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:57,080 Speaker 9: suicide them suicide if they feel ashamed shame drives the suicide, 726 00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:01,800 Speaker 9: or if they are afraid of consequences. Epstein never felt 727 00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:06,920 Speaker 9: a shame. She never ever, ever was remorseful for his actions. 728 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,799 Speaker 9: And I believe that he probably thought that he would 729 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 9: get out of this one just like he got out 730 00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,359 Speaker 9: of the prior fourteen months sentence. So this does not 731 00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:19,279 Speaker 9: paint a picture of somebody who would have killed himself 732 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,759 Speaker 9: or of a prison guard who was really jealously zeallessly 733 00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 9: guarding the inmate. 734 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:31,600 Speaker 1: Another issue regarding the jailer Toba Noel. Noel has been 735 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 1: called to come and testify in front of Congress, and 736 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:40,000 Speaker 1: they have directed that if she doesn't come, she will 737 00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: be subpoened. That said, I want to look back in 738 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:50,319 Speaker 1: on what I'm seeing in Epstein's cell to Dave Matt, 739 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 1: Crime Stories investigative reporter joining us, Dave Mac, take a 740 00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:56,879 Speaker 1: look at this photo. What am I seeing, Dave Mac? 741 00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:00,160 Speaker 10: You know, beyond all of the orange sheets and the 742 00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:05,279 Speaker 10: mattress on the ground, you're actually seeing cords and hoses 743 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:11,240 Speaker 10: from Jeffrey Epstein's CPAP machine that was allowed in his cell. 744 00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:16,200 Speaker 1: What I'm saying, Dave Matt, is that inmates have to 745 00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,120 Speaker 1: use a spork. You know what that is, and it's plastic, 746 00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 1: it's a spoon fork because they cannot have a regular 747 00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:30,000 Speaker 1: fork or knife because they might kill each other. I say, 748 00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:33,800 Speaker 1: there's no way that those cords and hoses were allowed 749 00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:38,600 Speaker 1: in his jail cell. And if they were another problem, 750 00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:43,160 Speaker 1: if you know or think you know anything regarding this case, 751 00:46:43,719 --> 00:46:48,439 Speaker 1: Please dial eight hundred calls. FBI Nancy Grace signing off, 752 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:52,440 Speaker 1: goodbye friend,