1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:03,040 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:07,400 Speaker 2: This is Laura Vandercamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 3 00:00:07,440 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 2: and speaker. 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 3: And this is Sarah hart Hunger. I'm a mother of three, 5 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 3: a practicing physician and blogger. On the side, we are 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 3: two working parents who love our careers and our families. 7 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. 8 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,400 Speaker 2: Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, 9 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 2: and time for fun, from figuring out childcare to mapping. 10 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: Out long term career goals. 11 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: We want you to get the most out of life. 12 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. This is Laura. 13 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 4: In this episode, Sarah and I are going to be 14 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 4: talking about our own screen time feelings and policies, and 15 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 4: how we handle social media and you know, interact with 16 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 4: the electronics in our lives. A couple weeks ago, we 17 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 4: were talking about kids and screens, our household policies for 18 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 4: the young people we live with and are trying to 19 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 4: shape into upstanding characters, what we did with them. Then 20 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 4: we had an interview with Devora Heidner, who is the 21 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 4: author of the book screen Wise, author of the forthcoming 22 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 4: book Growing Up and Public about how we can help 23 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 4: young people in our lives navigate this sort of you 24 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,400 Speaker 4: know the digital universe that is there, that they are 25 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 4: part of that ecosystem, often whether you wish to be 26 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 4: or not. As Sarah often says, just because you get away. No, 27 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 4: you can give up your phone, but that won't make 28 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 4: twenty twenty three into nineteen ninety five, which is when 29 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 4: we grew up, although without many of these devices and such. So, Sarah, 30 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 4: you have blogged and written a lot about this. You 31 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 4: have for the most part removed social media from your life. 32 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: I mean, you're still very, you know, tech savvy person. 33 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 4: Obviously you have a podcast, you have a blog, but 34 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 4: social media you draw a line around. 35 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 3: Can you talk a little bit about social media in particular? 36 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 3: I have decided to draw a line around. So, going 37 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,560 Speaker 3: all the way back to nineteenety five, I think I 38 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 3: loved like thee of social media. I was very drawn 39 00:02:01,640 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 3: to it even then. I remember like spending hours on 40 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 3: like Prodigy bulletin boards, like I have a personal attraction 41 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 3: that is perhaps slightly unhealthy social media. I mean, I 42 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:13,960 Speaker 3: guess I've just come to realize that. I think it's 43 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 3: not that uncommon. I don't think it makes me a 44 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:21,600 Speaker 3: unique snowflake. I think that these types of interaction have 45 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 3: become increasingly more addictive, and the number of women who 46 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 3: tell me that they're like unhappy with the amount of 47 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 3: time they spend on Facebook or Instagram or whatever their 48 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: you know, thing of choice is not low. But I 49 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 3: will I feel like I've always had a proclivity towards 50 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 3: those things. And in twenty sixteen, before any election happened, 51 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 3: but maybe in some of the lead up to that, 52 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 3: I was like, I don't think anyed Facebook in my 53 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 3: life anymore because it's just like too much. Plus I 54 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 3: was often spending time on something called PMG with this 55 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 3: physician Mothers Group or mommy group or something like that. 56 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 3: And you know what, there was a lot of useful 57 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 3: threads in there. There's a lot of great, strong, smart 58 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 3: women on there talking about very similar topics what we 59 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 3: talk about on the show. But I could not read 60 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 3: it and feel good and like turn it off and 61 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 3: like not have a lot of feelings. Like there was 62 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 3: something about it that it was just like either it 63 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 3: made me anxious, or it made me compare, or it 64 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 3: just like made me want to read it for three 65 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: hours straight and then be like, oh my god, what 66 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 3: did I just do with the last three hours? Like 67 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 3: I was unable to use that in a healthy, constructive way. 68 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 3: And my biggest thing is like if we had unlimited 69 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 3: time on Earth and like this time we spent on screens, 70 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 3: like somehow it didn't count, Like, oh, those are extra 71 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 3: hours of life that you get, it wouldn't bother me 72 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 3: so much. But it's like no, like I want to 73 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 3: do other things. I want to exercise, I want to read, 74 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 3: I want to hang out with my kids, I want 75 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 3: to do X y Z, I want to go outside. 76 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 3: And so I just decided like that I was going 77 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 3: to be better off if I took Facebook away, and 78 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 3: then I think Instagram gradually rolled in and kind of 79 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 3: filled up void. And then in twenty twenty one, I 80 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,120 Speaker 3: was like, okay, time to take Instagram the way as well. 81 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 3: And I've been absolutely happier having done that. Like I 82 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 3: there's just like some weird angsty feeling I get when 83 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 3: I spend too long on those things, both something about 84 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 3: consuming the content also like sort of seeing how I 85 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 3: think Instagram especially has just become this like weird like 86 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 3: who has the most followers and like who's most successful, 87 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 3: and like it didn't feel like it was me and 88 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 3: my friends. It felt like was me and a bunch 89 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 3: of influencers right like and then just like realizing that 90 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 3: I could spend my hours doing other different things. So 91 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 3: it's been great. I put up kind of an away message. 92 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 3: I didn't like close my accounts. I was just like, 93 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 3: I'm not. 94 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: Going to be here anymore. 95 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,600 Speaker 3: And I put up a link tree so that like, 96 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 3: if someone looked up the shoe box or whatever on 97 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 3: instad they could like find my blog or whatever. I 98 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 3: have no idea what percentage of traffic like ever makes 99 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:58,520 Speaker 3: it anywhere. I obviously haven't grown my social media platform 100 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 3: because of that, so that may be a downside, honestly, 101 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,200 Speaker 3: because now that I've kind of entered this creator world 102 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 3: as an actual part time career, sometimes it's good to 103 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: have a bigger platform and I don't have one. But yeah, no, 104 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 3: it's not worth it to me. I am just like 105 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: so much happier without those things. And I haven't really 106 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 3: thankfully come up with any Like I haven't even let 107 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:24,599 Speaker 3: myself touched TikTok, like I'm like, that would just be 108 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:25,480 Speaker 3: my next Instagram. 109 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,279 Speaker 5: I know, I just like can't handle it. 110 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: So but do you find that? 111 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 4: I mean, so there's this quantity of time in our 112 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 4: lives where you have zero energy. You are not in 113 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 4: some situation where it's particularly convenient to do much else. 114 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 4: And that's why I know a lot of people pull 115 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 4: up social media, and so I try to train myself to, 116 00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 4: you know, do puzzles or to pull up something on 117 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 4: my kindle or whatever. 118 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 1: But then there's also you know, just like sometimes. 119 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,600 Speaker 4: You want the brain dead sort of staff that you're 120 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 4: you're doing, and I wonder if you ever even wind 121 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 4: up like just reading a lot of blog comments then 122 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:00,920 Speaker 4: or I think you've mentioned going to it at various 123 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 4: points and reading through. 124 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 3: So that's it for me, is no better than Instagram 125 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,599 Speaker 3: when I find myself falling down that it's the same 126 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,599 Speaker 3: when I'm in a healthy mental health space, just none 127 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 3: of those things domaining favors, Like they're not relaxing. 128 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 5: They make me stay up later than I need to. 129 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 3: A lot of times it is when I'm tired and 130 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 3: I'm just be better off reading a book and then 131 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 3: falling asleep. 132 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 5: I'd be better off talking to a real person. 133 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 3: If it's stressed that has made me turn to those things, 134 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 3: I'd be better off just like writing a list in 135 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 3: something I will say, like the healthiest screen escape time 136 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 3: for me is and I don't do a lot of it, 137 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 3: but YouTube, because I have very specific people I follow. 138 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,479 Speaker 3: They're all like in the Planner kind of world, or 139 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 3: like jet Pens is a company of Japanese stationary and 140 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 3: that it just for whatever reason, I'm not compelled to 141 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 3: watch fifty of them. I don't get all comparing. I 142 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 3: can just like relax and like enjoy it. And I'm 143 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 3: sure there are people who feel that way about social 144 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 3: media in general. 145 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 5: I'm just not wondering them. 146 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I say, I guess I haven't found it quite 147 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 4: as addictive to me, or I. 148 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 5: Agree, I don't think you do. 149 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really. 150 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 4: Fire as many negative feelings for me, and so I 151 00:07:19,360 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 4: tend to look at it. You know, Let's say, if 152 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,560 Speaker 4: I have I'm waiting in line or something, and I 153 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 4: don't have a book I want to read, like, then 154 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 4: I'll go see what's on at night when I am 155 00:07:30,120 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 4: sitting in Henry's room waiting for him to fall asleep, 156 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 4: which I would prefer not to be doing. 157 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 1: But this is, you know, the particular stage of life 158 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: we still. 159 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 4: Happen to be in at the moment, and I kind 160 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 4: of like, you know, if I want to do something 161 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 4: that is completely unproductive and useless. 162 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: Right now I can, and. 163 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 4: So you know, I'm on Twitter, I'm on Facebook now again. 164 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 1: I like you left it. 165 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 4: Around twenty sixteen, I happened to have one right of 166 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,280 Speaker 4: people in my friends and family and background from multiple 167 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 4: sides of the political truth, not even just straight left 168 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 4: and right. I mean there's some ones you probably haven't 169 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 4: even thought of, like of what people's political stripes happened 170 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 4: to be. And so sometimes that makes it very interesting. 171 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 4: And then sometimes around twenty sixteen, like that made it 172 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 4: just a horrible place to hang out because of people's 173 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 4: incredibly strong, in many cases obnoxious feelings on various sides. 174 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 4: So I left, and then I found myself back like 175 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 4: in the last year. 176 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: It's weird. I don't know if it was Facebook kept. 177 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 4: Trying, they kept sending me notes or something, or I 178 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 4: went on because somebody had posted, you know, I don't know, 179 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 4: somebody's like baby photos are there and I want to 180 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,600 Speaker 4: go look. And I was on the buy Nothing group briefly, 181 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,960 Speaker 4: and then I needed a babysitter, so I had to, 182 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 4: you know, I joined a local like babysitting. 183 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: Group, and then I. 184 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 4: Wound up joining this group called large family tricks of 185 00:08:55,760 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 4: the trade, which perhaps, like your physician mommy group is 186 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 4: some alternately interesting and then alternately helpful. 187 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: And then alternately like oh my lord, like you know, but. 188 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 4: You know, it's also just like you want to see 189 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 4: the variety of human experience as well, and sometimes you 190 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 4: wind up in your own little bubble. 191 00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 3: And I'm gonna beg to differ and state that the 192 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 3: algorithms are also putting you in a bubble, like a 193 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 3: big bubble. I mean, there is such a big brother 194 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 3: like controlling like what you see and what is fed 195 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 3: to you next, and they know what's gonna push your buttons. 196 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 3: So I don't buy the like I'm seeing all sorts 197 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 3: of like. 198 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 4: Well, except that you know, it's people's lives too, in 199 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:44,079 Speaker 4: many cases very different from mine, and I do appreciate 200 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 4: that aspect of it, because I might not have sought 201 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 4: that out right, And so I read those sometimes, you know. 202 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,959 Speaker 4: I like Instagram for the photos, I like seeing people stuff, 203 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 4: but you know, I don't use any of this as much. 204 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 4: I haven't posted anything on Facebook and age is I 205 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 4: think I last posted on Instagram when I'm recording this, 206 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 4: like two weeks ago, It's not something I particularly feel 207 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,720 Speaker 4: compelled to do that much. I would tell you that, 208 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 4: like with the creator aspect and bringing traffic. I mean, 209 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 4: it's good to have a presence, and some people really 210 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,200 Speaker 4: do that as a way where they build community. But 211 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 4: I think you have to decide to be all in 212 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 4: on a particular app then to do it. And I'm 213 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 4: a little concerned about that because you don't necessarily own 214 00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 4: all the material, right, Like, I mean, they could disappear tomorrow, 215 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 4: They could deplatform you tomorrow for something you didn't. 216 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: Even know you did wrong. I mean, you know, it's 217 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: could definitely happen. 218 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,839 Speaker 4: Whereas what you and I have both done of building 219 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 4: up like a newsletter list and building up our own websites, 220 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 4: it may not expose you to a broader, bigger audience 221 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 4: that could make something go viral quite as easily. But 222 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:51,920 Speaker 4: on the other hand, it's yours, it's ours, it's ours, 223 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 4: and they can't instantly take. 224 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 3: It away from you, or even like the number of 225 00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 3: people that like didn't really want to make reels and 226 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 3: then found that, like well, Instagram wasn't going to show 227 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 3: their stuff anymore. Like, I don't the idea that a 228 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 3: company could like kind of decide which content is going 229 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 3: to be popular and which isn't, Like, oh, there's something 230 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 3: unnatural about that, And I don't know. I just keep 231 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 3: going back to the fact that, like, their job is 232 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:19,959 Speaker 3: to keep you on their device as long as possible, 233 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 3: and they're very good at doing that, at least when 234 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 3: it comes to like me, like, they were very good 235 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 3: at doing that, and they're buying my eyeballs, my expensive 236 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 3: eyeballs during the time that I was doing that, feeling 237 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 3: bad about myself, having negative feelings and not doing other 238 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 3: things like I, yeah, I can't wrap my head around it, 239 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 3: but you definitely have better moderation, and it doesn't sound 240 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:42,760 Speaker 3: like the self loathing is associated with it, and the 241 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 3: fact that you haven't like posted in two weeks, like yeah, 242 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 3: clearly you're not addicted. 243 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 4: We're going to take a quick ad break and we'll 244 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 4: be back talking more about our own interaction with screens. 245 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 1: So Sarah and. 246 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 4: I are back talking about screen time in general. I mean, 247 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 4: the truth is we're on screens all day. 248 00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 1: I mean, we're on our laptops. I mean it's not like. 249 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 4: I guess you have to sort of draw a distinction 250 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 4: here because there's so many ways that we're interacting with screens, 251 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:23,680 Speaker 4: and you know, I'm on the laptop for eight hours 252 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 4: of work. I don't really watch TV. You like TV though, right, 253 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 4: You like certain sorts of TV. 254 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't watch like a lot of TV. I 255 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 3: actually probably watch a very like two hours a week, 256 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 3: maybe like it's not a lot, But I really do 257 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 3: enjoy usually doing one series at a time, either something 258 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,560 Speaker 3: that I'm watching by myself, like I watched sex Lives 259 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 3: of College Girls by myself, and I watch Bad Sisters 260 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 3: by myself, or like Josh and I are watching Ted 261 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 3: Lasso right now and we always watch that together. So 262 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 3: I find TV to be like much higher quality than 263 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: it was when we were growing up. There are so 264 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 3: many more options, so you can kind of like pick 265 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 3: your own like niche kind of a thing. And I again, 266 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 3: it doesn't have that addictive quality like we watch it 267 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 3: at night. I know there's some people who do have 268 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 3: issues where they like they'll want to stay up till 269 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 3: two am. I'm like, I'm just such not a night person. 270 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 3: I'm tired, So once I get sleepy, I'm like, okay, 271 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 3: we're done. We'll finish this one tomorrow. Like sometimes I 272 00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 3: can't even get through one full episode or something time last. 273 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 3: It can be long, like some of those are more 274 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 3: than an hour, and I'm like it's rough. So yeah, No, 275 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 3: I enjoyed to you, And you're right. I mean at work, 276 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 3: I'm on screens a lot of the time. I don't 277 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 3: like that kind of like itchy hand task switching kind 278 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 3: of thing, like I mean you brought up wadding in line, 279 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 3: Like I if it's a very long line and there's 280 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 3: nothing else to do, I totally get it. When it's 281 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 3: like a short line, it's kind of like, no, my 282 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 3: brain actually could probably benefit from just like standing here 283 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 3: for a second and like maybe talking to the person 284 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 3: next to me, or maybe I have a kid with 285 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 3: me and I have to deal with them anyway, so 286 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 3: I couldn't be on my screen effectivelyor'ng gonna end up 287 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 3: screaming at them because they're halfway across the store or whatever. 288 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 3: So I don't like those little bits, you know, like 289 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:03,599 Speaker 3: I find they kind of like pollute my attention a 290 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 3: little bit. But no, it's not like I'm avoiding screens 291 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 3: at work or we're on. 292 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: One right now. 293 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 5: We can see each other as we're recording this podcast, and. 294 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,680 Speaker 1: We met each other through our blogs. 295 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, which is something that we might 296 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:21,120 Speaker 4: not have naturally ever come across each other without that 297 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 4: aspect of. 298 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: The early version of social you know, and. 299 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 5: You share your book, which I purchased on paper. 300 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: So that's true. 301 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 3: Okay, Well maybe maybe if we're the nineties, I would 302 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 3: have written you a letter. 303 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: We would have been penpals. 304 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 3: Sarah, You've been like, she's nice handwriting, Let's be friends. 305 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 4: It's true choice, exactly. 306 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: I should get to know her. That's true. 307 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 4: I mean, I still like to create content that hopefully 308 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 4: people will read in their their analog times of day. 309 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 4: But I think for me, the way I think about 310 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,000 Speaker 4: it is the same as I try to think of 311 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 4: about it with my kids. 312 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: There are I have my bedtime. My bedtime is eleven PM. 313 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 4: Unless there is a really good reason, I will go 314 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 4: to bed at eleven PM, and then I'm up at 315 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 4: six point thirty. And you know, in the morning, I'm 316 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 4: kind of busy doing stuff with kids. I'll read, I 317 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 4: will turn on my phone, and I have a couple newsletters. 318 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 4: I enjoy reading in the morning, but generally that's not 319 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 4: time that's going to be like spent on social media. 320 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,000 Speaker 4: Or anything like that. You know, there's obviously work that 321 00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 4: is occasionally check in if there's something professional I'm trying 322 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 4: to promote through social media, but I tend to have 323 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 4: things I need to get done during the day. I'm 324 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 4: running kids around in the afternoon, if I'm at a 325 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 4: kid's activity, I'm generally trying to do something like a 326 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 4: work project that I said, this is, you know what 327 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 4: I can do during this hour. We have family dinner, 328 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,080 Speaker 4: we have we have to get kids in bed. We often, 329 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 4: you know, in the summer, do our time outside after dinner. 330 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: I sing in my choir. 331 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 4: During the school year, try to have family adventures, I run. 332 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: Whatever else, you know. 333 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:10,840 Speaker 4: So there's just not that much time available for going 334 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 4: down some sort of deep rabbit hole of social media stuff. 335 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 4: And occasionally I do just because I'm so fascinated almost 336 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 4: from a like I don't know, anthropological perspective on some 337 00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 4: of these Twitter like little Twitter communities that will rally 338 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 4: around some particular idea, and like, who thought that was 339 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 4: a good idea? Now you've like tried to convince all 340 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 4: these other people that you were into it. 341 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: Like some really truly bad dating advice I have found, 342 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: So you know, like, well, okay, like people who. 343 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, don't read dating advice from Twitter. I guess that 344 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,480 Speaker 4: would be my life coach thing. I would say there, 345 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 4: but I find that kind of interesting and we'll read that. 346 00:16:57,640 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 4: But yeah, there's just not that much time available. 347 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 5: That's so funny. Yeah that makes sense. 348 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 3: And you're not one of those people who wakes up, 349 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 3: because I think a lot of people will wake up 350 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 3: and get sucked into their phone and then like whatever 351 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,640 Speaker 3: morning intentions they have, especially if they're not a morning person, 352 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,160 Speaker 3: and they wake up kind of tired, get reilroaded because they, 353 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 3: you know, spent seventeen minutes and now like they're planted 354 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:19,439 Speaker 3: to a thirty minute workout. 355 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 5: Is like is over to me? 356 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 3: People talk to me a lot about that, but that 357 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,119 Speaker 3: doesn't seem to be like you fit in a lot. 358 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 4: Well, we'll see when I don't have, you know, five 359 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 4: kids at home, I don't know, maybe I'll be the 360 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 4: person who's on whatever the version of social media is 361 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 4: sixteen years from now. 362 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: A very interesting. 363 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 3: Topic because there are a lot of seniors that spend 364 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 3: their whole I mean before they used to spend their 365 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 3: whole days watching the news right and watching TV, and 366 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 3: now they've switched to Facebook and god knows what else, 367 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 3: but I don't really want to do that. 368 00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 4: Well, I mean it's again, it's you can find communities 369 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 4: online in circumstances where it might be more challenging to 370 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 4: make them in person. And so if you are somebody 371 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 4: who has physical limitations, for instance, it can be harder 372 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 4: to get out, like if it's not as easy for 373 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,680 Speaker 4: you to drive, and you know you're relying on neighbors 374 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 4: or children or whatever to drive you around it. You know, 375 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 4: that is the social interaction you can have. So I 376 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,480 Speaker 4: don't know, I'm sort of understanding about that part. 377 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 5: Of it that makes sense for that use of it. 378 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I mean, what, you've read some 379 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:36,480 Speaker 4: books on the topics of screen time and adults, Like, 380 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 4: what are some of you. 381 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 5: That found myself? Yeah? So I think I've read them all, 382 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 5: And I'm just kidding. 383 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 1: It's like you with me with the organizing books. 384 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 5: Yes, I don't read organizing books. 385 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:50,479 Speaker 1: I don't do anything with them. I just like to 386 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 1: like to read them. 387 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:53,720 Speaker 5: Oh my gosh. 388 00:18:53,840 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 3: Well, I've recently just finished Johann Hari's Stolen Focus. That one, 389 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 3: that one a lot lot, that role was a lot 390 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 3: even for me, and that's saying something. 391 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: Because you've heard me like rant and rape on this episode. 392 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,640 Speaker 3: But I liked some of the ideas presented there, and 393 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 3: I liked reading specifically about his three month screenfast he took, 394 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 3: just because like that's never going to happen for me, 395 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 3: and so it was just interesting to hear somebody else's 396 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 3: experience having done that. That was an interesting one. I 397 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 3: really like call Newport's Digital Minimalism. I think he did 398 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 3: a really nice job with the topic. I actually I 399 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 3: enjoyed that one even more than Deep Work. I know 400 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 3: deep work like got I think a lot more attention, 401 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 3: But I really like digital minimalism. It was about like 402 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:42,679 Speaker 3: find the minimum, like it's not all or nothing, but 403 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,600 Speaker 3: like you want to use your phone to the level 404 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 3: where it serves or your devices to level where they 405 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 3: serve you, and like not beyond that, so that you're 406 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:52,160 Speaker 3: serving the companies basically with your eyeballs. As I said. 407 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 3: So I thought he did a nice job with that. 408 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 3: And then Catherine Price had to break up with your phone. 409 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 3: It's an OLDI book, goodie. I don't think I put 410 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:06,400 Speaker 3: her recommendations like into action when I read the book, 411 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 3: but when I finally quit the apps. I thought about 412 00:20:08,960 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 3: her book as I did them, because for me, the 413 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 3: only thing that made my phone less compelling and less 414 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,200 Speaker 3: addictive was just getting the things off of there that 415 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 3: I found very compelling and addictive. And actually, once I 416 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 3: did that, it became pretty easy not to go on 417 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:23,359 Speaker 3: my phone because what am I going to do? Like 418 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 3: go to Google Maps? 419 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: It's been days on Google Apps. 420 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 4: I guess, how would I drive from here to Yellowstone 421 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 4: if I were going to do so? See what's how 422 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 4: many subways are on the way. So yeah, I enjoyed 423 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,320 Speaker 4: Digital Minimalism Cal's book partly because of the approach it took, 424 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 4: not just like you should be off screens because screens 425 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 4: are evil, because that's silly, Like they're not, and it's 426 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 4: a tool like anything else, and you want to find 427 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 4: how it works in your life. And he made the 428 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 4: point that you should look at how you are spending 429 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,879 Speaker 4: your leisure time and figure you're out cool things that 430 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 4: you can do with your leisure time, because when you 431 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 4: are doing that, then the screens are then just generally 432 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 4: less compelling. So if you sing an a choir that 433 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 4: is two and a half hours that rehearsally that you 434 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 4: are not on your screen because you are doing something 435 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 4: else that is you know, more interesting and more constructive. 436 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 4: You know, if you have you know, a lot of 437 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,120 Speaker 4: the time we're on phones is because we're like half 438 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,760 Speaker 4: supervising our kids. But you know, even that sort of time, 439 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 4: you could come up with ways to make it better. 440 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 4: Like what if you win a friend meet up at 441 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 4: a park, right, and then you can talk to your 442 00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,320 Speaker 4: friend and your kids are all playing together, and so 443 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 4: you're not kind of half on your phone looking at 444 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 4: stuff and texting your friends. You're you know, you're you're 445 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 4: having the real world interaction and then it winds up 446 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 4: being sort of less screen based. But it requires a 447 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 4: lot of thought, right that you have to put effort 448 00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 4: into your leisure time, and a lot of people find 449 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 4: that sort of challenging to do. 450 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: You know, we're tired, so but you know it's I 451 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: think it's worth doing. 452 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think I mean from anybody listening to 453 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,240 Speaker 3: our podcast, and we've you know, all of our one 454 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 3: hundred dreams and like things we want to do, and 455 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:10,600 Speaker 3: how we are proponents of like planning stuff because otherwise 456 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:11,160 Speaker 3: it won't happen. 457 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 5: You can tell where we fall on that side. Of 458 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 5: the spectrum. Yeah, I love the Oh go ahead. 459 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 4: You know, I was gonna say, well, last thing before 460 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 4: we take one more ad break and then do our question, 461 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 4: but I. 462 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 1: Think we should. 463 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,879 Speaker 4: You know, it does help to come up with activities 464 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 4: that you can do during low energy times. If you 465 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 4: would like to minimize the time on screen, you need 466 00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 4: something else to absorb that time when you are not 467 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,680 Speaker 4: at your best. You are not going to be you know, 468 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 4: solving worldwide problems. You are not even going to be 469 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 4: able to do much on your own life. I mean, 470 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 4: you just you're filling time almost. What do you have 471 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 4: that is fun, rejuvenating that fills that time as opposed 472 00:22:54,400 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 4: to scrolling through one hundred comments on somebody's bad dating? Right, 473 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,120 Speaker 4: So for me, it's puzzles like I do one thousand 474 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 4: piece puzzles. 475 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: I do a ton of them, like. 476 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 4: I will sit there and those are probably more compelling 477 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 4: to me than the social media comment threads that I 478 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,439 Speaker 4: will get really really into it and can find you know, 479 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 4: I keep making another fit and you know, spend hours 480 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 4: on it if I had the time available on any 481 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 4: particular day. 482 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 1: So figure out what that is for you. 483 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 4: It might be you know, ideas that could be something creative, 484 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 4: like some people really like needle work of various points. 485 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 4: You know that it's you can see yourself making progress. Obviously, 486 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 4: if you're knitting a scarf, like there will be more 487 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,959 Speaker 4: of a scarf after you've been doing it for fifteen 488 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:42,160 Speaker 4: minutes than there was at the beginning of that time. 489 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 4: You know, it could be sketching, It can be reading. 490 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 5: Obviously, there's that's my puzzle equivalent. 491 00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 3: And again not hybrill literature here, like fun stuff that 492 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 3: I don't have to use a lot of brain power 493 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 3: to enjoy, but never leaves me feeling that same way 494 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 3: that that the scrolling did. 495 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, and if you can't even get your head around books, 496 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 4: like you're not in a book mode. 497 00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: You can get books that are like magazines. 498 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 4: I mean I go to the library and get like 499 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 4: books on garden design and I'm basically just looking at 500 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 4: pictures of. 501 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:19,480 Speaker 3: Flowers or actual magazines or actual magazines. Yeah, I still 502 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 3: get real simple, we get consumer reports, we get Runners World, 503 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 3: and I love. 504 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 5: Mindlessly kind of flipping through those absolutely. 505 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: I like HGTV. That's another good one. I better Homes 506 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:30,199 Speaker 1: and Gardens is still out there doing well. 507 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 4: I will put a plug in here for Southern Living, 508 00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,639 Speaker 4: even if you are not a Southern person. It's just 509 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 4: a really well done lifestyle magazine where everyone they quote 510 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 4: happens to live south of the Mason Dixon line. So 511 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,959 Speaker 4: I mean it's but it's about everything. It just happens 512 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,720 Speaker 4: to have that one caveat on it, and so that's 513 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 4: that's really cool. You know, the magazines I like keep disappearing, 514 00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 4: like Oprah Magazine went away, Martha Stewart Living went away, 515 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:57,680 Speaker 4: but so it goes. 516 00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:59,320 Speaker 1: There's often new. 517 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 4: Ones or they have secial newsstand editions that you know, 518 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,000 Speaker 4: Oh magazine is now out quarterly that you can buy 519 00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 4: on newstands, so you know, you can check that out, 520 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 4: and I think feel free to splurge a little on that. 521 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 4: Don't view it as like wasted money. I mean you 522 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,720 Speaker 4: can usually get a monthly magazine for about a dollar 523 00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 4: to two dollars in an issue, which ifits an hour 524 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 4: of entertainment, is about as cheap as it goes, right, 525 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 4: So yeah, put a plug in for that. 526 00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 3: All right, let's take our break. We'll be right back 527 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 3: with our Q and A and loves to the week. 528 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,199 Speaker 4: All right, Well, we are back talking screen time and 529 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:49,280 Speaker 4: adults and specifically ourselves and how we interact with screens 530 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 4: in our lives. 531 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:51,840 Speaker 1: But the question we want. 532 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,760 Speaker 4: To discuss today is a little bit different, not about 533 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 4: screens at. 534 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 5: All, really, no, not related. 535 00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,600 Speaker 1: So Sarah, you want to read this one. 536 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, Well, I'm gonna summarize this one because 537 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,200 Speaker 3: this is quite a long question. But this is basically 538 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 3: a woman who has a two and a half year 539 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 3: old who is pregnant, so she has a baby on 540 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:14,120 Speaker 3: the way, and she's really struggling with getting the two 541 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 3: and a half year old to stay in their crib 542 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,920 Speaker 3: and sleep through the night. And so she's actually worked 543 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 3: with a sleep consultant in the past with some success, 544 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 3: but still doesn't have like a great solution, and she's 545 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,479 Speaker 3: kind of, I don't know what the word is, shoring 546 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 3: herself up and trying to figure out how she is 547 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 3: going to handle this two and a half year old 548 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 3: who's still not sleeping through the night, getting out of bed, 549 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,119 Speaker 3: et cetera. When her new baby is born and she 550 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,480 Speaker 3: therefore has to be feeding the baby overnight. And by 551 00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 3: the way, she also you know, works full time in 552 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 3: fairly long shifts. So wow, it's a lot. 553 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, you go first. 554 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: Okay, yeah, No. 555 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 4: I mean deepest sympathy is when you have a toddler 556 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 4: who doesn't go to bed very easily, or who wakes. 557 00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: Up in the middle of the night. I mean we're. 558 00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:03,360 Speaker 4: Finally in a good place, which not what's necessarily going 559 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 4: to bed per se. Like I still sit in Henry's 560 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 4: room while he falls asleep most nights. Some nights I 561 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 4: am able to leave and tell him, Henry, I need 562 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 4: to go put the other kids to bed. He's like, 563 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:16,000 Speaker 4: you'll come back, right, and I'm like, sure, Henry. And 564 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,840 Speaker 4: then by the time I, you know, would come back, 565 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 4: he's asleep, which is you know, I feel like, no. 566 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:20,440 Speaker 1: Harm, no foul there. 567 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,960 Speaker 4: We had him in a crib with a net overhead 568 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,439 Speaker 4: for a long time because we were worried about him 569 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 4: climbing out because Alex, who's my now eight year old, 570 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 4: was is a climber, like he'll climb on anything. 571 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:33,480 Speaker 1: He's now actually on a climbing team. 572 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 4: But as part of that, he was climbing out of 573 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 4: the crib at like as soon as his little legs 574 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 4: and arms could move, and so we're like, oh, well, 575 00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 4: we got to make sure that that Henry doesn't do that. 576 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 4: Of course, then Henry is a totally different child who 577 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 4: would never climb out of anything. So it's you know, 578 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 4: you never know what you're gonna get. But Henry did 579 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 4: not sleep particularly well either. We moved to this house 580 00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:54,960 Speaker 4: where he's just a little bit farther away from me, 581 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 4: and I think that helped because I don't necessarily hear him. 582 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 4: And I mean, if he's screaming at here him, but 583 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 4: if it's just like the regular nighttime noise, I don't, 584 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:02,880 Speaker 4: So that was that was just the thing. 585 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: Anyway, Sorry, getting back to you. This lady mentioned. 586 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 4: That the two and a half year old likes to 587 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 4: have an adult with her. She also put it out 588 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,119 Speaker 4: that she's going to have the infant and that her 589 00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,840 Speaker 4: husband may not wish to be up all the time 590 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,959 Speaker 4: with the infant if she's like nursing the infant. 591 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: So big solution here is we put. 592 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 4: A bed in the toddler's room and her husband goes 593 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 4: and sleeps there. And he seemed to be okay with that, 594 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 4: like he doesn't have a problem with that as an idea, 595 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 4: and you know, he's in charge of the toddler, she 596 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:38,959 Speaker 4: is in charge of the infant. 597 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 1: That seems like a pretty good split. 598 00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,360 Speaker 4: She's the only one who's going to be lactating, So 599 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 4: that's the right split if you're gonna have one, And 600 00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 4: that way she won't be worried about the toddler, Like 601 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 4: she could just deal with the sleep deprivation that comes 602 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 4: from the infant, but she can, you know, co sleep 603 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 4: with the infant and so you know, hopefully just like 604 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 4: nurse a little bit and go back to sleep and 605 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 4: have the baby there and hopefully that will help with 606 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 4: some of that. And I think also just knowing that 607 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 4: the toddler is cared for is a big part of it, 608 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:11,520 Speaker 4: Like that she's not going to be like, if she 609 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 4: does get up, it's not my problem, it's somebody else. Plus, 610 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 4: my husband's there, and I think the toddler will probably 611 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 4: sleep better with her husband in there, because that was 612 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,920 Speaker 4: part of the problem, is that the child is just 613 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 4: frightened of the night, as toddlers often are. Yeah. 614 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 5: I love that solution as well. 615 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 3: It has an element of fairness and an element of practicality, 616 00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 3: and all these things are going to change, you know, 617 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,120 Speaker 3: who knows, maybe her newborn will sleep through the night 618 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 3: at three months. I had a colleague the other day 619 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 3: who was like, yeah, We're really lucky our baby does that. 620 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 3: So there are babies out there. 621 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 5: That just do that. 622 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 3: I didn't have any, but they exist, so, you know, 623 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,000 Speaker 3: I guess the biggest thing to keep in mind is like, 624 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 3: no matter what you decide, be flexible because you just 625 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 3: don't know which way this is going to go. And 626 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 3: your two and a half year old eventually is going 627 00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,120 Speaker 3: to outgrow the need for someone to be with them. 628 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 3: I highly doubt that going to want this when they're ten. 629 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 3: So whatever you can do to kind of survive and 630 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 3: thrive in the moment when things are at their most difficult, 631 00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 3: I say, do them. So I like all these outside 632 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 3: of the box solutions. I love the idea of getting 633 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 3: your partner involved like this and we're thinking of you, 634 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 3: we're rooting for you. This is a hard time, but 635 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,280 Speaker 3: you're going to get through it. And I like the 636 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,560 Speaker 3: fact that you're planning ahead votes very well. 637 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, And I think definitely create opportunities during the 638 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 4: day for you to get some more sleep, particularly while 639 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 4: you're on maternity leave for the next few months. And 640 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 4: then you know, even with her schedule, I mean she's 641 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 4: a nurse, so she works twelve hour shifts, so those 642 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 4: three twelve hour shifts will be hard, yes, but maybe 643 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 4: on the days that you are not at the hospital, 644 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 4: you could don't be like, oh great, we don't need childcare. 645 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: Like if you've got you. 646 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,600 Speaker 4: Know, they have some help from family, they have a 647 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 4: part time daycare for the toddler. 648 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: Like, definitely keep you that ask for more of it, you. 649 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 4: Know, but have that opportunity that you could then for 650 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 4: sure get a nap an early afternoon on the days 651 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 4: that were really rough, and if you're not working on 652 00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,280 Speaker 4: those days, that would be an opportunity that you would have. 653 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 4: That's somebody who is like in an office from nine 654 00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 4: to five Monday through Friday would have less of That 655 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 4: would be one upside of those three twelve hour shifts. 656 00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:27,280 Speaker 5: Yes, I vouch for all of that. We're rooting for 657 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 5: you. You'll have to update us, let us on how it's going. 658 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:33,760 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly, all right, Sarah, I love of the week mine. 659 00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 3: I'm just going to double back on our discussion and 660 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 3: say that I really enjoy getting magazine subscriptions never really 661 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 3: gets old. I feel like when I was like fifteen, 662 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 3: I would get my little seventeen magazine. It was like 663 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 3: the best day ever. Sassy mag anybody else sassy so good, 664 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 3: and it's it's like not quite that fun. It's definitely 665 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 3: not that level of fun. Actually that was more fun, 666 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,000 Speaker 3: but it's still like a little fun. And we don't 667 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,000 Speaker 3: have that many moments of random fun in our lives necessary, 668 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,160 Speaker 3: So being able to go to the mailbox and like 669 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 3: maybe having a fun magazine in there for me is 670 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:05,240 Speaker 3: a highlight. 671 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 5: So yeah, I. 672 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 4: Would say that you can even you know, if you're 673 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 4: not sure what titles are out there, which why would 674 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,520 Speaker 4: you know, Like taking a little I could make this 675 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 4: my love of the week is stopping by an airport 676 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 4: bookstore or all the Barnes and Nobles have huge magazine 677 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 4: sections where they have a lot of random titles as well. 678 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 1: But just it's not that expensive. 679 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:28,680 Speaker 4: They're they're cheaper if you subscribe, but they're not that 680 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 4: expensive if you buy them. So just you know, treat 681 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,160 Speaker 4: yourself to three of them at the airport bookstore, get 682 00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 4: you through your flight to Cleveland, and if you liked 683 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 4: one of them, then subscribe and like, hey, now you've 684 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 4: got twelve hours of screen free fund over the next year. 685 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 4: As you as you read through these episodes of these 686 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 4: editions as they come what are they called issues, Issues. 687 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: Issues editions? I don't know what was the word I 688 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: was looking for. 689 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 5: I'm not even sure periodical subscription, I don't know. 690 00:33:00,080 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 4: Oh no, all right, well, this has been best of 691 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 4: both worlds. We have mostly been talking about how we 692 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 4: interact with screens. We will be back next week with 693 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 4: more on making work and life fit together. 694 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:12,880 Speaker 5: Thanks for listening. 695 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 3: You can find me Sarah at the shoebox dot com 696 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 3: or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, and you. 697 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 6: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This 698 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 6: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join 699 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 6: us next time for more on making work and life 700 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 6: work together.