WEBVTT - That's Called Growth 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:04.240 School of Humans. 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:08.960 Sanctum Unmasked is about a sex club and describes various 0:00:09.000 --> 0:00:12.200 sex acts. Please use discretion where and when you listen. 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.640 So let's go back for a minute to twenty thirteen, 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:21.400 the year Damon started Sanctum. Twenty thirteen might not seem 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:24.439 that long ago, but it was definitely a decade ago 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:28.360 gag and also a very different time. If you need 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:32.720 a refresher, President Obama was beginning his second term, Wrecking 0:00:32.760 --> 0:00:37.040 Ball by Miley Cyrus was driving everyone insane. The world 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:40.680 was finally emerging from the recession of the financial crisis 0:00:41.000 --> 0:00:45.880 and entering a period of refocusing on wealth and status. Also, 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:50.760 sexual taboos were still very much taboo back then, like 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.519 high end sex clubs weren't really a thing yet, at 0:00:53.640 --> 0:00:57.200 least in the US. People still liberally threw around the 0:00:57.200 --> 0:01:01.480 word hooker as an insult. Gave marriage wouldn't be legalized 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:04.880 in the US by the Supreme Court for another two years, 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.720 and the Me Too movement and all of the conversations 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:13.839 around consent that it inspired was still years away. Basically, 0:01:14.200 --> 0:01:18.120 we've come pretty far. You couldn't conceive of Sanctum today 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:21.560 and build it to be what it was yes It 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:25.920 was new, exciting and transgressive, but it was also very 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:27.680 right place, right time. 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:35.880 Damon just represented this culmination of seeking the high end. 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:40.720 So what was the ultimate of sex? Damon brought that 0:01:40.880 --> 0:01:44.040 culture to, you know, a certain level of people who 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:47.000 could pay for it, but weren't cool enough to find 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:50.800 it themselves. He took the obvious and made it work. 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:55.400 Maybe what I did is fucking stupid and pointless and 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:59.520 just like all about gluttony and selfishness, turn it into 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.080 whatever you want. I created, you know what became quoting 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:05.120 the press the most elite sex club in the world, 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:06.440 whatever that means to people. 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:09.480 Does that have any value? Whatsoever? I mean, I don't know, 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:12.400 but certainly there is incredible value. 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:17.440 I think in this idea that we set ourselves free 0:02:17.480 --> 0:02:21.239 to consider what are the possibilities for us as individuals? 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.840 You know, what might we do if we weren't so 0:02:25.040 --> 0:02:28.720 constrained in our own minds about what is right and 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.959 wrong and correct and incorrect? Because if I did anything, 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:37.200 I actually allowed myself to dream and then made. 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:38.840 That dream come true. 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:53.920 Welcome to Sanctum Unmasked. I'm your host, Carl Schortino. So 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:58.240 to answer Damon's question, Yeah, a lot of people would 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:02.920 argue that Sanctum in an out of itself, had incredible value. 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:06.320 Of all the people we talked to during this process, Claudia, 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:10.480 Sanctum's longtime performer, was the one who consistently spoke of 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.519 her time at Sanctum as deeply transformative. 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:17.800 I feel like it just opened my eyes to so much. 0:03:17.880 --> 0:03:21.200 Like it opened up my eyes to sexuality, my own sexuality, 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.799 my comfort level with myself, and just looking at sex 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:27.600 a little less taboo. 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.880 And she credits a lot of that to Damon personally. 0:03:31.320 --> 0:03:33.960 Damon just has like a natural aura to him, Like 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.920 if you talk to him for five minutes, you're like, Okay, 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.160 this guy doesn't like have a bad bone in his body. 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.040 He wants everybody to do well. He's everybody's biggest fan. 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.640 Like he's a lover of life and love, and like 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:45.920 you pick up on that. 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:50.960 David Winkler had a somewhat similar experience. Remember he's the 0:03:51.000 --> 0:03:53.920 sugar Daddy who had a threesome at Sanctum that ended 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:58.880 with applause from boy or guests glamorous. For David, his 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:01.080 time at the club had a laugh impact on his 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:04.120 relationship with himself and his partners. 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:09.280 I think Sanctum contributed to my sexual exploration in that 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:14.000 before I went, I wondered, is there something really kinky 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:16.839 about me that I just don't know that I haven't explored? 0:04:18.120 --> 0:04:21.160 You know what am I missing? Because I'm really vanilla? 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.320 Like I tried choking a girl in section. She laughed 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:30.320 at me, She's like, come on, David, you're too nice cute. 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:34.039 You know, you go and you see people with whips 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.080 and chains, and you see people tied up, and you 0:04:37.240 --> 0:04:41.480 see people using toys you've never seen before. And I 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:44.680 was actually surprised that I didn't discover that there was 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:48.440 anything kinky about me that I never knew. I don't 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:50.560 know if you can call anybody who has a threesome, 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:53.120 you know, on a massage table in front of twenty 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:57.040 people vanilla. I think that what I discovered was I 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.600 was more confident than I ever knew. But I definitely 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:02.800 felt that I was part of a community, and I 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:07.039 definitely felt that I was not alone. And I definitely 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:13.360 became much more comfortable discussing sex with other people. And 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:16.799 I feel like I'm a better partner because of my experiences. 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:21.880 Yet again, wholesome. Now, this is not the outcome most 0:05:21.880 --> 0:05:26.280 people would expect from an elite and depraved Hollywood sex party, right, 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:31.800 but it's kind of inspiring, of course, Like literally anything 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:36.120 on Earth, people's experience of Sanctum varied widely. Take Lea, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.280 for example, who we met in a previous episode. She's 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.760 been going to Sanctum as a guest since twenty fifteen, 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:45.120 and she's a bit of a sex party connoisseur, having 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:47.960 been to many different types of events, from high end 0:05:47.960 --> 0:05:51.320 sex parties to more DIY floor mattress vibes to be 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:54.599 DSM dungeons, and so her take on Sanctum as an 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:59.240 institution is pretty specific. In certain respects, she could see 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:01.480 that it was offering something invaluable. 0:06:02.080 --> 0:06:04.680 When I've gone to Sanctum, it's been a lot of newbies, 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.919 and I do feel like it has been nice to 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:12.040 see people take that first step. I brought a friend 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:17.000 and there was someone flogging and sinking, and she had 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:20.520 never done anything like that, and so it was really 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:23.200 lovely seeing her kind of like spread her wings a 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.800 little bit and have that like first effort vescence of 0:06:26.839 --> 0:06:28.600 like ooh. I liked this sensation. 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:33.839 However, from her perspective, Sanctum didn't offer the depth of 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:37.760 community that other sex parties have been able to In part, 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.240 she feels because the elite and exclusive nature of it 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.279 creates a kind of performativity that can be a barrier 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:44.839 to connection. 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:50.440 I feel like spaces to explore sexuality should be affordable 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:58.280 and accessible. I would say that Sanctum is a very glamorous, 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:04.560 elite sex that focuses on aesthetic and offers opportunities to 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:09.880 be a voyeur and to dip your toes into the 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:15.320 realm of sex parties. But I would say that it 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:21.720 does not necessarily offer the authenticity of intimacy. I think 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.440 that anonymous element is actually a really huge part of it, 0:07:25.480 --> 0:07:29.200 and it's funny because it's personified literally through the mask 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:34.120 that is the emblem of Sanctom, and it encourages you 0:07:34.160 --> 0:07:39.840 to continue wearing the mask, not literally but symbolically. And 0:07:40.840 --> 0:07:43.920 I feel as though some of the other sex party 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:48.360 experiences I've had really wants you to take off these 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:52.800 layers so that you can connect deeper in maybe that 0:07:52.840 --> 0:07:56.080 intimate way you've never shared with anyone else before, but 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:59.320 in a space that you can be held in and seen. 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:03.600 So like Sanctum was fun for sure, but for Lea, 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.160 and I'm sure a lot of other people. There's something 0:08:06.160 --> 0:08:09.840 about having a more inclusive space that allows for a 0:08:09.880 --> 0:08:14.560 more meaningful community to develop too. Of anyone we spoke to, 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:20.200 Ambrose's experience of Sanctum was definitely the most complicated. He 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:23.440 held multiple positions throughout his three years working the club, 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:26.560 from the bunny role he was hired for, to being 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:30.000 a dom to a live sex performer, and as we 0:08:30.040 --> 0:08:33.199 talked about, a side hustle sex worker, and there were 0:08:33.240 --> 0:08:35.680 some times when the club was empowering for him. 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:38.160 It meant so many different things to me at different 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:42.360 points at Sanctum, I was in the dom role, Like 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.360 I was like the house dom and stuff, and like 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.080 sometimes during that time it was literally what was saving 0:08:48.080 --> 0:08:50.440 me and keeping my head above water because I felt 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.320 so meek and small and like fragile from my abusive 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.440 ex And then I'd like be able to come to 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.000 Sanctum and like step into those six inch I heels 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:03.960 that I wore, whar this tight skirt thing or what 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:06.200 have you, and have the whip, but know that people 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.800 listen to me and looked up to me and whatnot. 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.520 It definitely kind of helped me through that in some. 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:17.800 Ways, at other times it sucked, if you remember. Ambrose 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:22.240 also talked about being sexually assaulted by guests, particularly one 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:24.719 creep who was trying to put his fingers in Ambrose's 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:28.040 vagina when he wasn't looking, which clearly falls into the 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:32.160 category of never fucking do that. I mean, I've said 0:09:32.160 --> 0:09:35.320 it before, but it bears repeating. Sanctum was a messy 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.240 free for all at times. Stuff that was happening at 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:42.080 the club in twenty thirteen, even twenty seventeen would never 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:42.679 fly now. 0:09:43.480 --> 0:09:47.679 They didn't like teach people enough about like informed consents. 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:50.600 They would also like, let you drink a lot. 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.559 And it wasn't until like towards the end of being 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:55.760 there that they tried to cut back on people's drinking 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:00.680 as performers. And I feel like it definitely added to 0:10:00.840 --> 0:10:04.680 my alcohol problem, And there were different times when I 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:08.280 got coke from people who worked there or people who 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:09.560 were guested there who had it. 0:10:11.600 --> 0:10:15.720 Ambrose's experience was also especially complicated because of his close 0:10:15.800 --> 0:10:19.640 personal relationship with Damon. They've both said that for years 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:22.640 during Sanctum they felt almost like siblings. They were each 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:27.360 other's confidants. However, after Ambrose left Sanctum and had more 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:30.440 distance from it, His feelings about his time there started 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:34.599 to sour. He started talking negatively about the club publicly 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:38.640 saying that Sanctum was a toxic working environment, and Daemon 0:10:38.760 --> 0:10:42.439 was upset about it and also confused because he says, 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:47.160 Ambrose never aired those grievances with him personally. Today they 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:52.040 don't speak. Of course, our experiences of our lives, sex, 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:56.360 very much included, are not binary. Something can be fun 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:59.800 and enlightening and traumatizing all at once. It's like a 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.680 but for feelings. Or sometimes something can feel okay or 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:07.560 even good in the moment, and then years later we 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:10.640 look back and think, oh my god, how did I 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:11.320 survive that. 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.880 For lobsters, right, you put them in the water and 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:16.839 then it starts boiling and they're like, oh, what a 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:21.280 nice warm Beth. They don't realize they're in the boiling 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:24.679 water till it's killing them. And I didn't realize I 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:28.160 was in a not great environment. So it was like, 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:29.640 you're really not okay for me. 0:11:30.880 --> 0:11:32.640 In some ways I regret it. In some ways, I 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:33.720 wouldn't change anything. 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.400 What seems consistent is that people were changed by their 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:41.720 time at Sanctum. For better and sometimes for worse. Despite 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:46.520 the emotional chaos, rampant elitism, and murky boundaries, Sanctum was 0:11:46.559 --> 0:11:49.640 able to offer something to people that they couldn't find elsewhere. 0:11:50.240 --> 0:11:53.800 When I asked Melissa about the cultural significance of Sanctum, 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:55.120 she had this to say. 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.640 I think as a society, as a community, I think 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.240 it's a good thing to open up the dialogue of 0:12:01.320 --> 0:12:05.040 sex and sexuality. And if Sanctum was that, then I 0:12:05.080 --> 0:12:08.520 think that that's great. I'm sure it helped some couples. 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.320 I'm sure it tore some couples apart. It did for me, 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:20.280 you know, my relationship fell apart. But I do feel like, 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:24.240 all in all, it's exactly as it should have been. 0:12:25.320 --> 0:12:29.120 What's that saying hindsight is I was twenty twenty. But 0:12:29.600 --> 0:12:32.600 where are Damon and Melissa today? We'll get to them 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:50.560 after the break. So when we left you last episode, 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:54.760 Damon was confronting the reality of his sex and alcohol addictions, 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.520 and he ultimately decided to sell Sanctum, a decision he 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.880 never thought he'd make. And if you've been following the show, 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.400 you know that Damon went on quite the odyssey to 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.440 get to that point. From bankruptcy to billionaire orgies, to 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:14.360 blood oath initiation rituals, Damon achieved his crazy, honestly stoned 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.559 sounding dream. Who have thought Tom crowse would be so inspirational. 0:13:19.360 --> 0:13:23.240 Damon bluffed his way to incredible success and then delivered. 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.720 And throughout this process, his morals were tested and he 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.960 was forced to make big decisions. When I asked Damon 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.000 if he feels he chose wisely, he said this. 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.160 These were things that I couldn't say no to. You know, 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:41.040 I had to go on this journey. But having done it, 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.680 you know, if someone could give me this time machine 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:45.480 and say you can go back to that time and 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:47.920 you can just put your head down and keep selling 0:13:47.960 --> 0:13:51.720 real estate and not have created this thing at this 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.960 moment in my life, I would have never drawne that symbol. 0:13:55.320 --> 0:14:00.160 I would have never gone on this journey because losing 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:05.440 and giving up and pushing away the things that meant 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:08.439 and mean the most to me in this life was 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:09.000 a mistake. 0:14:10.040 --> 0:14:10.840 That's my truth. 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:15.760 So we all know Damon's like, whoops, I gave up 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:19.320 my family for this dream. But you might be asking yourself, 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:23.240 where's Melissa in all of this? I don't know about you, 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:27.080 but I'm really invested in her happiness. By this point, 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:30.800 Melissa was always Damon's biggest supporter, through the good and 0:14:30.880 --> 0:14:34.960 the bad. Through losing everything in the financial crisis, escaping 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.960 to Bali only for Damon to refuse to pay them 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:42.440 mafia and almost get himself killed. Through raising kids, infidelity, 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:49.359 dealing with substance abuse issues, multiple emotional breakdowns, more infidelity, divorce. 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.880 You can imagine how that relationship today might be difficult, 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:57.360 But actually they're pretty good friends and successfully co parenting 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:02.000 their kids. Melissa is now happily living that domesticated family life. 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.400 She always felt drawn to remember her boyfriend Billy, who 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:07.960 she broke up with to get back with Damon, only 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:11.160 for it to crash and burn for the seventieth time. Well, 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:13.000 Billy ended up sticking around. 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:19.560 Currently, I'm remarried with four teenagers living in Westwood, super 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:22.880 domesticated life or like the Brady Bunch. 0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:26.960 That's Damon and Melissa's two daughters plus Billy's two teenage 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:30.960 kids as well, living that mixed family Kardashian general lifestyle. 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.440 I'm going to culinary school, taking a course in restaurant 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.200 management because I have been asked to open a restaurant 0:15:39.200 --> 0:15:42.320 with a friend of mine, and I'm like, well, yes, but. 0:15:42.600 --> 0:15:46.080 I don't know anything about the restaurant business. So currently 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:48.560 that's literally what I'm doing. I'm like in school and 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:52.960 I'm a mom and just live in here doing the thing. 0:15:54.000 --> 0:15:56.240 When I asked Damon how things were going between him 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.200 and Melissa, now you could tell it was a vulnerable 0:15:59.280 --> 0:16:01.040 question for him. 0:16:01.480 --> 0:16:03.000 I'm curious to know what she would say. 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:08.240 You know, our relationship now is very loving, very caring, 0:16:09.200 --> 0:16:13.000 but we don't spend much time together. She is married 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.200 and she is on her own path, and she's trying 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:19.720 to make the best life she can with her new husband. 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.840 And you know, she has the kids far more than 0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.360 I do. I do plan on adjusting that now soon. 0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.480 But our relationship is as good as it can be. 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.160 You know, we shared an intimacy and a love and 0:16:32.200 --> 0:16:36.240 a companionship that we just can't anymore. But we are 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.120 very kind and civil and good with each other. I 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:40.520 hope that she would say the same thing to me. 0:16:41.000 --> 0:16:43.080 I mean, is she carrying around like animosity and like 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.200 bad feelings towards me? I mean maybe somewhere, but she 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:47.280 doesn't express it to me. 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:50.680 He seems great and better than I've ever seen him. 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:53.400 And I'm proud of where he's come from and everything 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:58.080 that he's done and gone through and he's come out 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.640 the other side, and you know, we're still great friends 0:17:00.680 --> 0:17:01.200 to this day. 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:03.640 I mean, you know, he says, if I could go back, 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:04.720 I would never do it. 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:05.680 Yeah, I know. 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:09.520 He said that to me all the time, and. 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:11.320 I don't want to put words of mouth, although I'm 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:13.360 not really, but I think he's like not over it. 0:17:13.800 --> 0:17:18.800 I represent a security for him. It took care of him, 0:17:19.080 --> 0:17:24.480 cooked for him, coddled him. I was a loving, affectionate 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:30.080 like I was all of that enveloped for him for years. 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.840 I was also incredibly codependent, you know, like I'm doing 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:36.080 my own therapy and work on myself and I'm the 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:40.920 biggest codependent there is, you know. So I just wanted 0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.439 to be loved and I just thought that that's what 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.960 it was, and so I gave everything and then some 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:50.720 and the boundaries were pushed and I didn't care, and 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:53.920 I just kept the relationship afloat and a float and 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.760 a float, and that was that's on me. You know, 0:17:57.880 --> 0:18:00.800 I'm still that woman, and I'm still doing all the 0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:03.159 things taking care of my family, taking care of my 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:07.160 new husband. But I think that I represent security, and 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:09.240 I'm the mother of his kids, and I know that 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:12.600 he loves them, and I know that he loves me deeply. 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.040 Damon and Melissa met when they were really young. She 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:19.359 was eighteen, he was twenty six, and they were together 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.520 for twenty years. That's a long time. Actually, it's three 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.679 times longer than the average celebrity marriage. Fun fact, if 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:29.879 anyone cares. And in that time they realized that what 0:18:29.920 --> 0:18:33.160 they each needed to be happy was really different. It's 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:38.239 a familiar story. You remember Hadria, Damon's sister. Well, she 0:18:38.280 --> 0:18:41.680 and Melissa are still close too, and they still sometimes 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:45.400 get together and gossip about Damon. I mean, how could. 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:47.960 You not Damon when he met mel I feel like 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.480 they were partying a lot. They grew together, but a 0:18:51.560 --> 0:18:54.440 part in ways, because Damon is still Damon and mel 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:58.320 kind of grew up and they still have an incredible 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:00.920 love for each other and an understand I don't think 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:04.280 anybody understands Damon the way mel does. But as I 0:19:04.320 --> 0:19:07.560 was saying, you look at her partner. He's not like Damon, 0:19:08.280 --> 0:19:13.760 Mel's husband now, he's like super grounded, works hard, does 0:19:13.840 --> 0:19:16.720 well You know, it's like stable. 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:21.359 Which is what Melissa always wanted. Stability. And while Damon 0:19:21.440 --> 0:19:24.720 has many wonderful qualities, I think he himself would admit 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.720 that stability has not been one of his top priorities. 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.720 But one thing he does excel at is saying exactly 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:35.520 what's on his mind, which is a quality that's perhaps polarizing, 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.480 but that I definitely feel drawn to. It certainly makes 0:19:39.480 --> 0:19:44.160 for a good podcast subject. At least. It's this sort 0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:47.040 of unfiltered honesty that is made speaking with Damon over 0:19:47.080 --> 0:19:51.040 these past months so fun because he says shit like this. 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:52.960 I mean, I've always wondered I'm going to say it 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.359 out loud, because fuck it, you know, I've always wondered 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:56.800 what it would be like if we had sex again. 0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:58.879 Like I can't help but wonder. 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:01.120 I mean, we're like brother and sister in a way 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:05.520 at this point, but I still wonder, like, what would 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:08.320 it be like if me the way I am now 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.480 and her the way she is now, if we came 0:20:10.520 --> 0:20:14.720 together and we could really just like have that experience. 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.959 I mean, it might be just fucking stellar. You know, 0:20:19.080 --> 0:20:21.800 I don't know, and I'm never gonna find out, but. 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:24.040 I just said it out loud. 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:29.040 I hope you're listening, Melissa, She's gonna be like, Damon, 0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:31.679 shut the fuck up, what the fuck is wrong with you? 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:33.440 I can tell you hear her saying that right now, 0:20:35.560 --> 0:20:40.359 and I can hear her saying that too. So Damon 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.919 and Melissa's daughters are now fourteen and seventeen, which is 0:20:43.960 --> 0:20:46.600 a complicated period of your life to confront the fact 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:49.760 that your dad ran, you know, the most elite sex 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.480 club in the world. It's kind of a given that 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:54.960 no one wants to think too hard about their parents 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.760 having sex, let alone having blood, ritual porn, fivesomes or 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.600 whatever the fuck Damon was up too. But Damion and 0:21:01.640 --> 0:21:04.520 Melissa are doing their best to manage this reality for 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:06.440 their daughters in whatever ways they can. 0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:08.720 They don't follow him on social media. 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:13.000 We've like blocked that connection, like we got smart with 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.520 all of that because we weren't back then. He's sat 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:18.760 them down and talked to them about what he did 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:22.800 for a living. And I know they've seen some imagery 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.560 online because you can google it and you can find 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:26.520 a whole bunch of stuff. 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:28.680 So I know that they've done that. 0:21:28.760 --> 0:21:31.520 They all have phones, they all have access to the Internet, 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:36.200 so cats out of the bag, like they know. But 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:40.400 the thing with our girls is they're very mature. They 0:21:40.560 --> 0:21:42.959 are super savvy and street smart. 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:44.080 It just is what it is. 0:21:44.119 --> 0:21:46.040 And I think they love their dad so much and 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:50.800 they love me so much, and. 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:52.920 It's just an accepted part of their lives. 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:57.000 But also there might be some perks to your dad 0:21:57.080 --> 0:21:58.600 being a former sex god. 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:01.719 I'm so when they can talk about anything about sexuality 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:03.840 with them, not like, you know, make sure he wears 0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:07.040 a condom, which of course is important, but like there's 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:09.520 other parts of sexuality they're important too, you know, And 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:11.359 I'm able to talk to them about that stuff, like 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:15.480 have conversations, Like sex can be fucking amazing and beautiful, 0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:17.919 but you have to really be open with your partner 0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.000 and talk about it before and some of it's going 0:22:20.040 --> 0:22:22.280 to be embarrassing, So like, you know, make sure that 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:24.399 you have a dialogue because it's going to be a 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:25.600 major part of your relationship. 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:26.119 It just is. 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:31.639 So one of the most interesting parts of this whole 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:35.439 story to me is that after all of his exploration, 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:41.040 after years of doing sanctum, trying nominogamy, fucking ten thousand women, 0:22:41.160 --> 0:22:44.200 and flogging every willing Hoe in Beverly Hills in search 0:22:44.240 --> 0:22:48.760 of sexual enlightenment. After all that, where Demons ended up 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:52.960 today is he's realized that what's right for him is monogamy. 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:53.919 I know. 0:22:54.119 --> 0:22:58.360 Right now. Demon says he's been alcohol free and casual 0:22:58.440 --> 0:23:01.360 sex free for about a year and have and that 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:03.800 journey began at the start of twenty twenty two with 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:05.639 sixty days of celibacy. 0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:08.080 I mean, I've been in AA and I spent a 0:23:08.119 --> 0:23:09.560 lot of time. Then I did the steps and all 0:23:09.560 --> 0:23:11.199 of that. But you know, when I went to the 0:23:11.280 --> 0:23:14.200 sex anonymous meetings, I don't know, I felt uncomfortable there. 0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:17.639 It didn't feel like it was working, or I shouldn't 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:18.840 say it didn't feel like it was working. I didn't 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:21.360 give it a chance to work. But what I did 0:23:21.440 --> 0:23:26.919 was I just because alcohol is abstinence, I decided to 0:23:26.920 --> 0:23:29.600 be sexually abstinate, you know, I decided to be celibate. 0:23:29.800 --> 0:23:33.240 And in sixty days of celibacy, my compulsions and the 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:35.560 things that I was doing became under control and I 0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:37.680 and one day at a time, I would say like, okay, 0:23:37.720 --> 0:23:40.480 no texting, you know, no sending videos back and forth. 0:23:40.520 --> 0:23:43.720 If you receive a video deleted immediately, like any interactions 0:23:43.760 --> 0:23:46.639 you have with women are platonic. You are not having 0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:47.920 sex one day at a time. 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:52.040 After sixty days of not railing, for the first time 0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:54.800 in years, he felt like he had some semblance of 0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:59.840 control over his sexuality. He felt good, and he discovered 0:23:59.880 --> 0:24:02.960 this this other crazy thing, which is that you can 0:24:03.000 --> 0:24:07.800 be a man who's actually just friends with women who 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:11.800 knew now. Damon says a primary focus of his life 0:24:11.920 --> 0:24:14.640 is making sure that he maintains discipline when it comes 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:17.280 to his addictions, because he wants to show up as 0:24:17.280 --> 0:24:20.399 his best self for his family, and he's actually really 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:23.720 enjoying his new, less unhinged lifestyle. Yeah. 0:24:23.760 --> 0:24:26.040 I mean, it's an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. I mean probably, 0:24:26.080 --> 0:24:28.480 it's a sex addict, always a sex addict. Probably it's 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:30.840 in you. But you know, if you do the work, 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:33.520 then I don't have the cravings to either drink or 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:36.520 you know, engage in sort of like sexual activity that 0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:39.600 could be harming to myself or others. And when I 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:41.560 say harming, I don't mean in the sense that I 0:24:41.600 --> 0:24:44.480 would ever do anything nonconsensual, because I wouldn't, but that 0:24:44.520 --> 0:24:46.560 I would do things that maybe would harm a relationship 0:24:46.600 --> 0:24:48.920 I'm inn I would do things that were just extremely 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:51.280 selfish and I just didn't care. I didn't give a fuck, 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:53.440 Whereas now I do feel like, you know, I have 0:24:53.480 --> 0:24:56.200 a responsibility to the people in my life that I 0:24:56.240 --> 0:24:58.320 care about and that I love, you know, and I 0:24:58.359 --> 0:24:59.960 want to be who I am today. 0:25:00.480 --> 0:25:05.160 Essentially, after rebelling against the status quo, after his Holier 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:08.840 than Now monogamy is for idiots, marriage is bullshit era, 0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:13.359 he was able to step back, assess his own experiences, 0:25:13.600 --> 0:25:17.600 and make an informed decision about what actually makes him happy. 0:25:18.680 --> 0:25:21.240 I stepped into monogamy with a feeling that this is 0:25:21.240 --> 0:25:23.320 how it had to be. That's all I heard growing up, 0:25:23.320 --> 0:25:24.920 and that's all I knew. And I was like, I 0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:27.159 don't like being forced into this thing. I'm going to 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:29.000 rebel against it. And boy did I rebel against it. 0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:29.240 Right. 0:25:29.359 --> 0:25:32.720 Like, if you force people to do things that you 0:25:32.760 --> 0:25:35.040 think are morally right, if you force them into that 0:25:35.200 --> 0:25:38.280 place and you cancel or shame them because they're not 0:25:38.440 --> 0:25:41.479 in that place, they're going to rebel against it. What 0:25:41.600 --> 0:25:44.359 I learned was that once I was given sort of 0:25:44.400 --> 0:25:49.000 my free will back, Okay, damon, you're free choose what's 0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:53.040 best for you. I actually ended up choosing monogamy and 0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:57.520 committing to it as a personal decision, and it made 0:25:57.680 --> 0:25:59.280 such a fucking difference. 0:25:59.760 --> 0:25:59.879 Right. 0:26:00.600 --> 0:26:04.280 Doing something by default doesn't leave much room for autonomy. 0:26:05.000 --> 0:26:07.640 And this isn't to say that monogamy is right or wrong. 0:26:08.160 --> 0:26:11.159 The point is not being shoehorned into a lifestyle because 0:26:11.400 --> 0:26:13.760 you know, society told you it was the only option, 0:26:14.640 --> 0:26:19.119 having the space and opportunity to choose something that's really powerful. 0:26:19.960 --> 0:26:23.400 Until recently, Demon was in a monogamous relationship for one 0:26:23.480 --> 0:26:27.240 year until they mutually called it quits. But the monogamy 0:26:27.320 --> 0:26:31.520 was a positive experience. Now he's single, and according to him, 0:26:31.720 --> 0:26:34.200 he's decided to only have sex within the context of 0:26:34.240 --> 0:26:35.440 a committed relationship. 0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:39.159 I am experiencing sexual enlightenment, but as far as, like, 0:26:39.920 --> 0:26:43.880 you know, really having sort of a transcendent sexual experience, 0:26:44.520 --> 0:26:48.520 I'm finding that it comes with commitment to a person 0:26:48.640 --> 0:26:51.919 and trust and feeling really safe with that person. You know, 0:26:52.119 --> 0:26:55.160 having that kind of sexual enlightenment cannot come from having 0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:57.679 multiple partners and different people every night. And you know, 0:26:57.720 --> 0:27:00.000 can you find it there? I didn't find it there. 0:27:03.480 --> 0:27:06.439 There's a quote from the famous sex therapist Esther Perel 0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:09.080 that I really love and I think is relevant here 0:27:09.600 --> 0:27:13.280 she says, sometimes when we seek the gaze of another 0:27:13.520 --> 0:27:16.439 it isn't our partner we are turning away from, but 0:27:16.560 --> 0:27:20.040 the person we have become. We are not looking for 0:27:20.119 --> 0:27:25.879 another lover as much as another version of ourselves. Basically, 0:27:26.119 --> 0:27:29.000 it can be unfortunately easy to start feeling like you're 0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:33.320 boring or unattractive, or like your life has become too predictable, 0:27:33.840 --> 0:27:35.960 And a big way that many of us try and 0:27:36.040 --> 0:27:39.400 mend that problem is by seeking out someone new who 0:27:39.400 --> 0:27:43.119 could make us feel desired or interesting through their eyes. 0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:46.960 And it works for a while, at least until you 0:27:47.000 --> 0:27:51.280 have to do it again and again, and you know, it's, 0:27:51.280 --> 0:27:55.320 like Melissa said last episode, I'm paraphrasing, but if you're 0:27:55.359 --> 0:27:58.000 trying to fill the emotional black hole inside your chest 0:27:58.080 --> 0:28:00.520 by fucking as zillion people, it's. 0:28:00.320 --> 0:28:01.040 Not going to work. 0:28:01.720 --> 0:28:07.640 Ultimately, it's about are you enough? Sure? Sanctum and all 0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:10.280 the sex and praise and celebrity it brought to Damon 0:28:10.720 --> 0:28:14.399 made him feel special, but like with any addiction, the 0:28:14.480 --> 0:28:17.439 highs were high but short lived, and the lows made 0:28:17.520 --> 0:28:20.560 him want to blow his fucking brains out. His words 0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:26.240 clearly this emotional rollercoaster was rough on Melissa too, but 0:28:26.320 --> 0:28:29.080 there was something she took away from spending so much 0:28:29.080 --> 0:28:31.040 time with all those pervs. 0:28:31.040 --> 0:28:34.480 In my sex life. Now, I am not any of 0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:39.000 those things. I'm not kinky like, I'm not like that. 0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:43.160 But what I did take away from that whole experience is, 0:28:43.560 --> 0:28:48.240 you know, a knowledge of human desires and what people 0:28:49.240 --> 0:28:53.760 want and need. I saw so many different types of 0:28:53.800 --> 0:28:56.840 people at that club, because there's a lot of celebrities 0:28:56.880 --> 0:28:57.200 that went. 0:28:57.240 --> 0:28:59.080 There, are a lot of moms and dads that went, 0:28:59.200 --> 0:29:01.280 people that you would think would be at a club 0:29:01.360 --> 0:29:01.560 like that. 0:29:02.360 --> 0:29:04.840 So now when I walk around on the street or 0:29:04.880 --> 0:29:06.840 when I'm like in some kind of social place, I'm like, 0:29:06.960 --> 0:29:08.840 mm hmm, you don't fool. 0:29:08.640 --> 0:29:10.960 Me with that, Paullyanna look you're trying. 0:29:10.760 --> 0:29:16.000 To do Because everybody I think has some kind of 0:29:16.320 --> 0:29:19.880 interest or some kind of thing with like exploring that 0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:21.200 where they want to tell you that or not. 0:29:21.800 --> 0:29:26.520 It's true. Believe me, I've interviewed enough square seeming marine 0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:31.840 biologists who moonlight as professional doms to know that while 0:29:31.840 --> 0:29:34.880 one may read as normcore, there's a good chance they're 0:29:35.000 --> 0:29:38.000 actually a freak from how It's part of what makes 0:29:38.040 --> 0:29:41.840 people so weird and exciting, and as hard as it 0:29:41.880 --> 0:29:44.960 all was for Melissa, she's come to accept the journey 0:29:45.080 --> 0:29:47.120 for everything it represents. 0:29:47.520 --> 0:29:49.720 It was an interesting part of my life, for better 0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:50.080 or worse. 0:29:50.080 --> 0:29:52.400 I don't really regret it, like it's all part of 0:29:52.520 --> 0:29:54.640 the movie, the Story of my life. 0:29:54.640 --> 0:29:57.800 It was a chapter. It happened. I own it. I 0:29:57.880 --> 0:30:01.160 did it, like just that's what I was. 0:30:05.560 --> 0:30:09.480 Interestingly, in the process of making this podcast and reflecting 0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:13.800 on his own experiences, Damon made some unexpected discoveries about 0:30:13.800 --> 0:30:17.600 his past. If you remember a few episodes back, we 0:30:17.680 --> 0:30:21.360 learned about Demon and Hadria's childhood growing up in northern 0:30:21.400 --> 0:30:25.360 California and a household full of alcohol and drugs, physical 0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:30.520 and sexual abuse. In one particularly harrowing moment, Hadria recalled 0:30:30.680 --> 0:30:33.400 being present while Damon, who was six at the time, 0:30:33.840 --> 0:30:36.600 was being molested by an older family member of theirs, 0:30:37.160 --> 0:30:40.480 and what Hadria didn't realize during our conversation was that 0:30:40.560 --> 0:30:44.040 Damon actually didn't remember her witnessing that well. 0:30:44.080 --> 0:30:46.160 Before she did the podcast, she said, can I talk 0:30:46.160 --> 0:30:47.040 about everything? 0:30:47.240 --> 0:30:47.440 You know? 0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:49.000 Is there anything off the table? And I said, no, 0:30:49.080 --> 0:30:52.960 I've I talked about our childhood. I'm not holding anything back, 0:30:53.000 --> 0:30:55.120 and then afterwards, you know, she said, I talked a 0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:57.040 little bit about what happened with you. And I was like, 0:30:57.080 --> 0:30:58.160 what do you mean, And she was like, well, I 0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:01.720 was there. I had forgotten that. I had forgotten that 0:31:01.760 --> 0:31:04.640 she was in the room when it was happening and 0:31:04.680 --> 0:31:07.680 she was watching. I don't know if I had forgotten 0:31:07.680 --> 0:31:09.200 it or blocked it out, but when she said it, 0:31:09.240 --> 0:31:12.880 I instantly remembered that she was there. I instantly remembered 0:31:13.360 --> 0:31:15.440 moments when she said to me, like, I want to 0:31:15.440 --> 0:31:18.560 do this too with you. It looked fun because you're 0:31:18.600 --> 0:31:22.760 a kid, and it does look fun, probably, And I said, no, 0:31:23.640 --> 0:31:27.680 I must have known that it wasn't okay. We were 0:31:27.680 --> 0:31:30.880 there together in this, in this insanity and this abuse, 0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:33.520 and we were like each other's there was no one 0:31:33.520 --> 0:31:35.600 else there to protect us. 0:31:38.040 --> 0:31:43.760 But each other. And yeah, so like I knew that, 0:31:44.000 --> 0:31:44.880 I knew that I couldn't. 0:31:45.320 --> 0:31:47.880 I knew that I didn't want to cross that line 0:31:47.880 --> 0:31:49.280 with her even as a little kid. 0:31:53.360 --> 0:31:56.800 After this revelation, demon put together that there might be 0:31:56.840 --> 0:32:00.520 some connection between his sister watching him expe sperience this 0:32:00.640 --> 0:32:04.479 as a child, and thirty five years later choosing to 0:32:04.480 --> 0:32:07.320 have sex in front of an audience at Sanctum. 0:32:07.920 --> 0:32:10.480 At Sanctum, I mean it's fun to have people watch, 0:32:10.520 --> 0:32:14.320 and I could almost feel especially energy from females who 0:32:14.360 --> 0:32:18.200 are watching, like that feeling of like that looks fun. 0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:21.120 It's so weird. It's what happened when with my sister 0:32:21.160 --> 0:32:22.040 though that looks fun. 0:32:23.000 --> 0:32:25.160 This is like the stuff you talk about with a shrink, right, 0:32:25.200 --> 0:32:27.640 I mean it really is, like, you know, to be 0:32:27.680 --> 0:32:31.520 saying all of this out loud is insane. 0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:35.840 Perhaps insane, but also interesting. I guess podcast interviews are 0:32:35.880 --> 0:32:36.600 the new therapy. 0:32:37.280 --> 0:32:37.560 God. 0:32:37.680 --> 0:32:40.960 All of that stuff is just so intense and I 0:32:41.000 --> 0:32:43.920 definitely have like pushed it down and in some ways, 0:32:43.920 --> 0:32:46.560 you know, this project Sanctum was, you know that there 0:32:46.600 --> 0:32:48.120 was a lot of that in there. There was this 0:32:48.200 --> 0:32:53.560 incredible childlike beauty and curiosity about sexuality mixed with this 0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:56.240 darkness of abuse and confusion. 0:32:57.040 --> 0:32:58.400 And that's what Sanctum was. 0:32:59.520 --> 0:33:02.800 I do want about Sanctom Why Damon chose all that 0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:06.360 and then getting celebrities to think she's great and all 0:33:06.400 --> 0:33:11.160 the people celebrating him, and its confusing as being sexually abused, 0:33:11.320 --> 0:33:14.640 Like physically it feels good, but maybe it's not good, 0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:17.280 Like how do you connect those two. That's what's so 0:33:17.480 --> 0:33:22.280 confusing about sex in general. I think that what Damon 0:33:22.280 --> 0:33:26.440 and I went through as children definitely fucked us up somewhat. 0:33:26.480 --> 0:33:28.840 I know I have issues that I'm still working through. 0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:30.760 I think he is too. 0:33:31.880 --> 0:33:34.760 I feel like he's in a much better place, and 0:33:34.800 --> 0:33:36.320 it seems like that's where he is now. 0:33:39.520 --> 0:33:43.560 Obviously growing up together in that often dark and chaotic environment, 0:33:44.040 --> 0:33:48.880 demon and Hadria share a specific and special connection. Like Melissa, 0:33:49.080 --> 0:33:52.080 Hadrian knows Damon in a rare and intimate way. She 0:33:52.160 --> 0:33:55.160 knows his joys and his pains. She knows him at 0:33:55.160 --> 0:33:59.040 his best and his worst too, and like any sibling, 0:33:59.280 --> 0:34:00.840 sometimes she like to drag him. 0:34:01.360 --> 0:34:03.600 I love him. I think that Gamon is he doesn't 0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:06.960 even realize sometimes what he does. I was talking to 0:34:07.000 --> 0:34:10.600 Melissa about this, like he's kind of like, oh did 0:34:10.760 --> 0:34:14.920 I do that? Like I didn't realize that my behavior 0:34:15.239 --> 0:34:18.319 had affected you, kind of thing like well in a 0:34:18.400 --> 0:34:19.000 china shop. 0:34:19.280 --> 0:34:23.839 So basically, Damon's a hasti verkle. But seriously, those who 0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:26.600 know Damon best seem to mostly agree that his sometimes 0:34:26.640 --> 0:34:30.279 shitty behavior isn't coming from a place of malice or manipulation. 0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:34.760 He's just kind of clueless about it. Like Mike Sager 0:34:34.840 --> 0:34:39.560 put it, Damon just blunders forward. And honestly, all those 0:34:39.600 --> 0:34:42.239 billionaires and slubs that were jizzing all over his living 0:34:42.280 --> 0:34:45.360 room should be grateful for that, because Demon could have 0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:48.080 been way more conniving with the power he amasked. 0:34:48.680 --> 0:34:50.800 People were telling me at one point, like, you should 0:34:50.840 --> 0:34:53.719 get collateral on these people, you should hide cameras, so like, 0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:56.600 you know, you've got these billionaires fucking you know, these 0:34:56.680 --> 0:34:59.520 these girls, you've got like all these celebrities. If you 0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:03.640 had that man, you'd control Hollywood. But thank god, my 0:35:03.880 --> 0:35:07.239 instinct was to be like, ah nah, that's fucked up. 0:35:07.320 --> 0:35:09.000 Like I don't want to be that person, because I've 0:35:09.000 --> 0:35:11.480 made so many fucked up moral decisions in my life. 0:35:11.520 --> 0:35:14.799 You know, I've done stupid things. And I understand how 0:35:14.840 --> 0:35:17.480 you could cross that line. I understand how you could 0:35:17.520 --> 0:35:20.239 take that power and be like, Okay, let's create like 0:35:20.239 --> 0:35:23.080 a secret cult for just these women, and we'll brand 0:35:23.120 --> 0:35:24.239 them and they'll be. 0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:25.200 Like our slaves. 0:35:25.560 --> 0:35:30.359 But luckily I could see how just manipulative and fucked up. 0:35:30.440 --> 0:35:35.560 That is. Lucky for the billionaires. Damon cared more about 0:35:35.600 --> 0:35:39.520 blowjobs than blackmail, as we've learned. While all the money 0:35:39.560 --> 0:35:43.520 and validation from celebrities were definitely perks, Damon's goal was 0:35:43.560 --> 0:35:47.200 more about sexual enlightenment, even if that desire led him 0:35:47.239 --> 0:35:50.359 down some dark paths. And Hadria sees that too. 0:35:51.280 --> 0:35:55.520 He's very spiritual, you know, but he's always right too, 0:35:55.600 --> 0:35:58.839 Like what he's doing in the moment is acceptable and right, 0:35:59.480 --> 0:36:01.520 and then maybe after the fact to look back and 0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:03.440 he'll think, that's not who I want to be. I 0:36:03.440 --> 0:36:06.000 want to do esteemable acts and be a good person. 0:36:06.080 --> 0:36:10.280 And like when he was doing Sanctum it was great, 0:36:11.000 --> 0:36:14.040 and now that he's not doing it, I think that 0:36:14.080 --> 0:36:17.960 he sees the things that aren't good anymore. It's funny 0:36:17.960 --> 0:36:20.880 because he's really naive in ways. He's not out to 0:36:21.000 --> 0:36:25.880 hurt anybody, because there's no time for that. It's Damon's world. 0:36:26.640 --> 0:36:28.799 It's like he's a spiritual narcissist. 0:36:29.320 --> 0:36:31.080 You can always count on your siblings to be a 0:36:31.160 --> 0:36:34.319 little too real with you. But also, I mean, who 0:36:34.360 --> 0:36:37.200 among us hasn't looked back at our past and cringed 0:36:37.239 --> 0:36:40.600 about something or realized we were living life in a 0:36:40.640 --> 0:36:43.800 way that felt right at the time, but now looking 0:36:43.800 --> 0:36:49.040 back seems deranged. I'm pretty sure, that's called growth. After 0:36:49.080 --> 0:36:50.920 the break, I go to Sanctum. 0:36:51.440 --> 0:37:03.320 Yay. 0:37:03.400 --> 0:37:06.240 So a few weeks ago I finally went to Sanctum 0:37:06.320 --> 0:37:09.600 for the first time. This is Sanctum in its new incarnation, 0:37:09.800 --> 0:37:13.280 of course, if you remember from last episode. In twenty nineteen, 0:37:13.520 --> 0:37:16.600 Damon sold the club to an anonymous investment group called 0:37:16.920 --> 0:37:20.640 The Circle. Fittingly, I have to admit I went to 0:37:20.680 --> 0:37:24.319 the party not expecting to love it. I just anticipated 0:37:24.320 --> 0:37:26.040 it being a bit elitist and cheesy. 0:37:26.400 --> 0:37:26.600 You know. 0:37:26.920 --> 0:37:29.880 I was being pretentious about the expectation of other people 0:37:29.960 --> 0:37:34.719 being pretentious. But honestly, I had the best time, and 0:37:34.800 --> 0:37:36.840 I'm truly not just saying that because this is a 0:37:36.880 --> 0:37:40.760 podcast about Sanctum. Remember, they confiscate your phone at the door, 0:37:40.840 --> 0:37:43.120 so I don't have any photos or audio from the night, 0:37:43.680 --> 0:37:45.359 so you'll just have to take my word for it. 0:37:46.880 --> 0:37:49.680 The party starts late, so I showed up at eleven thirty. 0:37:50.160 --> 0:37:52.279 I'd come from a birthday party and was wearing a 0:37:52.280 --> 0:37:55.600 sun dress with healed sandals. I'd brought a nicer outfit 0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:57.879 for the party, but I was being lazy and thought 0:37:57.880 --> 0:37:59.480 that I could maybe get away with what I had 0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:02.120 on and the dormant immediately looked me up and down 0:38:02.160 --> 0:38:05.080 and made a really disappointed face. And I was like, 0:38:05.760 --> 0:38:08.360 I have a slugier outfit in my bag, should I change? 0:38:08.480 --> 0:38:12.160 And he was like, please, l rude. So I put 0:38:12.200 --> 0:38:15.239 on a corset dress and stilettos, and honestly, thank god 0:38:15.280 --> 0:38:18.080 because when I got in, everyone was very elegantly dressed, 0:38:18.160 --> 0:38:21.920 like tuxes or chic cocktail dresses or a lot of 0:38:21.920 --> 0:38:25.680 the women were wearing extremely high end slash complicated lingerie. 0:38:26.440 --> 0:38:28.960 There were about one hundred and fifty people there. No 0:38:29.000 --> 0:38:31.640 one was wearing a mask. Interestingly, I guess we're in 0:38:31.680 --> 0:38:35.759 a post mass society. To give you a picture, the 0:38:35.840 --> 0:38:39.480 party was at a giant penthouse in downtown LA. The 0:38:39.520 --> 0:38:42.680 place was crazy. It took up the entire top floor, 0:38:43.160 --> 0:38:46.600 so all the exterior walls were these ginormous floored ceiling 0:38:46.600 --> 0:38:49.960 windows that had epic sweeping views of the city. The 0:38:50.000 --> 0:38:52.319 main area was a big open living room space with 0:38:52.400 --> 0:38:55.200 a free bar, and then there was a handful of bedrooms, 0:38:55.200 --> 0:38:58.000 which is where most of the fucking was happening. And 0:38:58.040 --> 0:39:00.560 then you could walk up this grand staircase to the roof, 0:39:00.760 --> 0:39:03.440 where there was a glamorous pool and a hot couple 0:39:03.520 --> 0:39:06.560 of naked, coked up hot girls giving blowdrops, and network 0:39:06.600 --> 0:39:11.600 execs all overlooking the glimmering lights of Los Angeles. So basically, 0:39:11.600 --> 0:39:14.279 would all of those QAnon freaks think that Hollywood people 0:39:14.280 --> 0:39:17.280 are up to They're right, at least in this case. 0:39:18.680 --> 0:39:22.160 There was actually more racial diversity than I expected based 0:39:22.160 --> 0:39:25.560 on what we heard about Sanctum and its previous incarnation. However, 0:39:25.640 --> 0:39:29.000 it was still overwhelmingly white. It also skooed younger than 0:39:29.000 --> 0:39:31.319 I would have thought. The majority of people were mid 0:39:31.360 --> 0:39:34.279 twenties to forty ish, which is younger than in the 0:39:34.360 --> 0:39:37.160 Damon days. I guess it's all that young tech money. 0:39:37.600 --> 0:39:39.920 Of course, the hottest guy talked to there founded a 0:39:39.960 --> 0:39:44.640 vight pen company, and Damon was there too, So in 0:39:44.680 --> 0:39:46.680 the years since he sold the club, he has not 0:39:46.760 --> 0:39:50.160 said the nicest things about its current iteration, saying that 0:39:50.200 --> 0:39:54.400 it feels sanitized, more corporate, that sort of thing. However, 0:39:54.600 --> 0:39:57.160 he's recently gone to the party a couple times after 0:39:57.200 --> 0:39:59.680 having not been in over a year, and he had 0:39:59.640 --> 0:40:01.600 an ex experienced that he wasn't expecting. 0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:07.279 Strangely enough, I went, and I was so happy and 0:40:07.360 --> 0:40:11.000 impressed by what the new owner is doing. It felt 0:40:11.000 --> 0:40:13.520 like a family reunion in some ways. There was so 0:40:13.600 --> 0:40:16.799 much love in that room. There's a lot of sexuality, 0:40:16.840 --> 0:40:19.799 and there were great people, and yeah, I just saw 0:40:19.840 --> 0:40:21.959 that like this thing that I created that I sort 0:40:21.960 --> 0:40:24.560 of have been in a way talking down on, you know, 0:40:24.680 --> 0:40:26.600 because for me, it was something that I needed to 0:40:26.640 --> 0:40:28.640 walk away from, and maybe to walk away from it, 0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:30.799 I had to have some animosity for it. 0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:33.320 But being there, I didn't hate. 0:40:33.160 --> 0:40:36.040 It at all, and I saw that I did create 0:40:36.080 --> 0:40:37.760 something really beautiful and really special. 0:40:38.160 --> 0:40:40.400 Honestly, he was kind of a celebrity at the party. 0:40:40.760 --> 0:40:42.480 A lot of people knew who he was and wanted 0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:45.040 to talk to him, and he was constantly surrounded by 0:40:45.040 --> 0:40:47.560 women who wanted him to tie them up in shibari 0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:50.880 rope bondage. I saw a couple of real celebrities, but 0:40:50.960 --> 0:40:54.680 iHeart lawyers won't let us drop any names, which is annoying. Also, 0:40:54.760 --> 0:40:57.000 I probably shouldn't out people if I want to be 0:40:57.040 --> 0:41:00.600 invited back. A real takeaway from Sanctum for me was 0:41:00.640 --> 0:41:05.000 how almost eerily nice everybody was. There's also something about 0:41:05.040 --> 0:41:07.560 being in an environment where people are naked and having 0:41:07.640 --> 0:41:11.399 sex that just shatter social norms. It makes people way 0:41:11.400 --> 0:41:13.960 more likely to talk to strangers and just be vaguely 0:41:14.040 --> 0:41:17.080 unhinged in a fun way. And while it's annoying that 0:41:17.120 --> 0:41:19.279 I don't have any audio to play you from the night, 0:41:19.760 --> 0:41:21.760 it's also just so nice to be at a party 0:41:21.800 --> 0:41:24.640 where no one is texting or in a selfiek hole. 0:41:25.320 --> 0:41:28.120 I got a chance to talk to Robert Artes, who's 0:41:28.160 --> 0:41:30.759 now the managing director at Sanctum, about all of this. 0:41:31.360 --> 0:41:33.440 I mean, it's like no other party and a degree 0:41:33.520 --> 0:41:36.279 of openness people have and how friendly they are. I'm 0:41:36.280 --> 0:41:39.680 continuously kind of surprised and our guests to come. Often 0:41:39.880 --> 0:41:42.520 the feedback that we get is about the crowd and 0:41:42.560 --> 0:41:44.320 the experience of meeting these other people. 0:41:44.960 --> 0:41:48.480 Currently, Sanctum hosts regular parties in New York and LA 0:41:49.120 --> 0:41:52.240 and occasional one offs in places like Miami and London. 0:41:52.840 --> 0:41:56.120 In Manhattan, they have a massive three story penthouse where 0:41:56.120 --> 0:41:59.320 they host all of their events, and the payment structure 0:41:59.320 --> 0:42:02.719 has stayed somewhat the same sense. Damon sold it. If 0:42:02.719 --> 0:42:06.920 you're approved into this exclusive society, one off tickets to 0:42:06.960 --> 0:42:09.640 the party start at twenty five hundred dollars per couple. 0:42:10.200 --> 0:42:14.440 A yearly membership is twelve five hundred dollars. A Dominance 0:42:14.520 --> 0:42:18.000 membership is fifty thousand dollars a year, and there is 0:42:18.040 --> 0:42:22.359 also still a Violet Key benefactor tier, which they treat 0:42:22.360 --> 0:42:25.520 as more of an investor than a member that sells 0:42:25.640 --> 0:42:31.120 for one million dollars. Rich people are fucking crazy, And 0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:36.120 I mean, yeah, this shit is definitely elitist, but so 0:42:36.360 --> 0:42:38.840 is a lot of stuff like I can't go to 0:42:38.880 --> 0:42:41.240 the metcalap But I don't think that means it should 0:42:41.280 --> 0:42:44.640 be canceled. I do think it's valid to examine the 0:42:44.640 --> 0:42:48.439 ways that the vast inequalities in our society can be problematic, 0:42:48.960 --> 0:42:51.400 and this is in part what we have attempted to 0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:55.240 do on this podcast. Interestingly, when I was at Sanctum, 0:42:55.360 --> 0:42:59.200 the majority of guests did not have sex. For the record, 0:42:59.480 --> 0:43:02.600 neither did I. I can barely hold hands in public, 0:43:02.760 --> 0:43:05.839 let alone hook up in front of an audience. Many 0:43:05.880 --> 0:43:07.640 of the guests I spoke to about why they came 0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:11.160 to Sanctum said something similar Basically, where else can you 0:43:11.200 --> 0:43:14.520 get the experience of watching other people have sex and 0:43:14.560 --> 0:43:19.120 be part of that energy? I mean, fair point. The 0:43:19.160 --> 0:43:21.680 basic party format is the same as when Damon was 0:43:21.760 --> 0:43:25.760 running it. They still have the choreograph live sex shows. Obviously, 0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:28.280 there are some things about the party that are different now. 0:43:28.719 --> 0:43:30.879 I mean, in a post me to world, how could 0:43:30.920 --> 0:43:31.319 there not be. 0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:34.040 There was nothing so much that I wanted to change 0:43:34.120 --> 0:43:37.600 drastically about it, but I wanted it to evolve. I mean, 0:43:37.600 --> 0:43:40.000 we are a sex positive brand, and one thing that's 0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:42.680 incredibly important to us, and it's prerequisite for this working 0:43:42.719 --> 0:43:46.160 at all, is that we operate, for instance, on affirmative consent. 0:43:46.800 --> 0:43:49.360 If someone violates a core conduct, we have essentially a 0:43:49.360 --> 0:43:51.080 one strike policy. They just won't be friends. 0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:55.200 Fact, the club also occupies a different space culturally now, 0:43:55.640 --> 0:43:58.600 but according to Robert, that doesn't make it any less relevant. 0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:01.360 I think when it starts, it was on the fringes, 0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:04.720 but his time goes on, it's becoming less on the fringes. 0:44:05.360 --> 0:44:08.320 It's become edgy now. So I think the culture is shifting, 0:44:08.320 --> 0:44:10.560 and I think has a role in shifting the culture 0:44:10.600 --> 0:44:13.440 as well, showing people that this can be something beautiful. 0:44:13.880 --> 0:44:17.239 And it is beautiful, or at least beautiful enough that 0:44:17.280 --> 0:44:19.960 I stayed until four am and made roughly ten thousand 0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:22.120 new best friends that I'll probably never speak to again. 0:44:22.640 --> 0:44:25.440 When I was running it, you know, especially in the heyday. 0:44:25.600 --> 0:44:27.560 I had management coming at some point and start to 0:44:27.600 --> 0:44:29.279 kind of take over because to me, it was like, 0:44:30.120 --> 0:44:33.480 this is our world to just be fucking debochrous and 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:36.120 anything goes. And you know, I don't like to say 0:44:36.120 --> 0:44:39.080 this out loud, but my performers were fucking guests and 0:44:39.200 --> 0:44:40.920 it was a free for all at times. But that 0:44:40.960 --> 0:44:43.440 doesn't happen anymore. He drew the line because he's a 0:44:43.440 --> 0:44:48.000 businessman and so with that mindset, it's a different party. 0:44:48.400 --> 0:44:51.440 He found a way to sort of contain the parts 0:44:51.480 --> 0:44:56.640 that maybe weren't okay and still make it an incredible party. 0:44:57.200 --> 0:45:00.680 He took what I did, and he made it safer. 0:45:01.760 --> 0:45:04.880 Now, while Damon acknowledges all that's great about Sanctum today, 0:45:05.280 --> 0:45:09.400 he doesn't think it's perfect. And who can create the 0:45:09.440 --> 0:45:13.600 perfect sex club. Well, according to Damon, it's him and 0:45:13.719 --> 0:45:18.080 him alone, and so, shock horror, Damon is about to 0:45:18.120 --> 0:45:22.440 start another sex club. The club, which launches this summer, 0:45:22.760 --> 0:45:26.240 is called Puzzle. According to the website, it's a quote 0:45:26.520 --> 0:45:30.960 sensual utopia for fine dining and celebration in a member's 0:45:31.000 --> 0:45:35.000 only sanctuary on the Sunset Strip. So Puzzle will feature 0:45:35.040 --> 0:45:38.799 fifteen dining tables, a swanky bar, a dance floor, and 0:45:38.840 --> 0:45:41.520 there will also be some tables with privacy curtains so 0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:44.880 people can indulge a bit more so to speak, so 0:45:45.040 --> 0:45:48.880 also sometimes host pajama parties. It's essentially a hybrid between 0:45:48.920 --> 0:45:52.160 what Sanctum was and a brick and mortar restaurant. There 0:45:52.160 --> 0:45:55.319 are three membership tiers. The top is ten thousand dollars 0:45:55.360 --> 0:45:58.160 a year, the bottom is twenty five hundred dollars a year, 0:45:58.440 --> 0:46:00.200 plus the arm and a leg. You'll spend on the 0:46:00.200 --> 0:46:04.360 fancy food and champagne of course, And as the Puzzle 0:46:04.400 --> 0:46:08.440 application makes very clear, quote if you are accepted as 0:46:08.480 --> 0:46:12.160 a member of Puzzle, know how special you are. We 0:46:12.200 --> 0:46:15.160 don't have enough space to say yes to many. In fact, 0:46:15.440 --> 0:46:18.720 we only have room for the best. In other words, 0:46:18.719 --> 0:46:24.600 this podcast has not solved economic inequality. Damon's also launching 0:46:24.640 --> 0:46:29.840 a new cannabis brand, aptly titled sex Weed. Honestly, I 0:46:29.920 --> 0:46:31.839 got to give it to him. The name is good. 0:46:32.760 --> 0:46:35.080 I'm working on some incredible things right now, and I'm 0:46:35.120 --> 0:46:38.920 really excited about what's next for me. The things that 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:43.320 I'm interested now in doing still involve sexuality. There's this 0:46:43.400 --> 0:46:46.360 skill set that I have that not that many people have, 0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:48.920 and I don't understand what it is exactly, but it 0:46:49.000 --> 0:46:53.200 comes from this root of love for being together with 0:46:53.400 --> 0:46:57.640 another person, for making love and feeling those feelings. So 0:46:57.719 --> 0:47:01.560 I'm not abandoning sexuality, but I I'm ruining myself more 0:47:02.120 --> 0:47:05.040 in a place of how can I make these experiences 0:47:05.560 --> 0:47:08.360 the most beautiful and the most healthy that they can be. 0:47:09.120 --> 0:47:11.640 So the question we keep coming back to on this 0:47:11.719 --> 0:47:16.600 podcast is what happens when you shed societal expectations and 0:47:16.719 --> 0:47:21.959 just unapologetically pursue personal sexual freedom. What do you gain 0:47:22.000 --> 0:47:26.480 from that? And does there have to be a cost? Well, 0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:30.600 I think there's a lot to be gained. It's potentially 0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:34.799 an incredible adventure full of fun, weird, sexy, hilarious and 0:47:34.880 --> 0:47:38.640 connective experiences. There's also a lot of self knowledge to 0:47:38.640 --> 0:47:41.000 be gained in the exploration of sexuality. 0:47:41.760 --> 0:47:43.399 But yeah, I. 0:47:43.480 --> 0:47:46.880 Do think there's also a cost to this sort of pursuit. 0:47:47.600 --> 0:47:51.279 The physical and emotional vulnerability that's inherent in this exploration 0:47:51.480 --> 0:47:55.879 is risky fucking territory. Hello, That's why most people don't 0:47:55.920 --> 0:48:00.000 do it. For Damon, obviously, the cost was his marriage 0:48:00.400 --> 0:48:04.600 and not being around so much during his daughter's childhoods Unsurprisingly, 0:48:04.719 --> 0:48:08.400 a common cost of pursuing sexual freedom is sacrificing the 0:48:08.440 --> 0:48:12.719 opportunity to have a more traditional, committed relationship. As the 0:48:12.719 --> 0:48:18.880 platitude goes, there's no reward without risk. But we also 0:48:19.000 --> 0:48:23.479 have to ask what does sexual freedom mean anyway? Does 0:48:23.520 --> 0:48:25.880 true freedom mean being able to do whatever the fuck 0:48:25.920 --> 0:48:28.480 you want twenty four to seven or does it mean 0:48:28.520 --> 0:48:32.759 something different? Because having zero boundaries isn't the same as 0:48:32.800 --> 0:48:37.560 being free. It might seem counterintuitive, but boundaries can actually 0:48:37.600 --> 0:48:41.960 be well Freeing limits help provide a structure for our 0:48:42.040 --> 0:48:46.239 lives and help to clarify expectations, which can be grounding 0:48:46.480 --> 0:48:49.600 and can make us feel safe. And there's no freedom 0:48:49.719 --> 0:48:54.600 without safety. Also, too much choice can be oppressive and exhausting. 0:48:55.239 --> 0:48:57.240 It's like when you go to Sephora and are faced 0:48:57.239 --> 0:49:00.400 with a wall of forty thousand vitamin C serums and 0:49:00.440 --> 0:49:03.440 you freeze and then spend forty five minutes panic googling 0:49:03.480 --> 0:49:06.360 reviews and they get so overwhelmed that you leave with nothing. 0:49:07.239 --> 0:49:11.040 The irony is demon needed to make those choices, to 0:49:11.239 --> 0:49:15.160 take that risk in order to learn that actually it 0:49:15.400 --> 0:49:19.279 wasn't a risk worth taking, at least for him. 0:49:19.760 --> 0:49:21.879 And I do think that I started Sanctum with an 0:49:21.920 --> 0:49:26.040 idea of this like spiritualized sexual experience, but I got 0:49:26.080 --> 0:49:29.120 caught up in the ego of it. So rather than 0:49:29.320 --> 0:49:31.719 just say, okay, well this was all a wasted effort, 0:49:31.960 --> 0:49:35.000 what I'm feeling now really truly is that this was 0:49:35.040 --> 0:49:38.600 an incredible learning experience and I can go into places 0:49:38.760 --> 0:49:41.760 I wasn't aware of before and really make some special 0:49:41.800 --> 0:49:44.279 things happen. You know. I just want to be a 0:49:44.280 --> 0:49:46.480 great dad. I want to be a great ex husband. 0:49:47.080 --> 0:49:49.439 Maybe I can go on to do something that has 0:49:49.520 --> 0:49:52.520 some real value. 0:49:52.640 --> 0:49:56.480 Our pal, Mike Saeger, had one final poignant observation. 0:49:57.719 --> 0:50:03.359 The conflict was Damon. He missed Melissa because he's a lover, 0:50:03.560 --> 0:50:05.839 not a fighter. He wants to be in a relationship. 0:50:06.040 --> 0:50:08.880 He's like the caricature of a man in that sense, 0:50:09.400 --> 0:50:13.640 wanting variety and yet wanting to be loved. Damon made 0:50:13.640 --> 0:50:17.200 that perfect kind of character that he's got it all, 0:50:17.239 --> 0:50:19.759 but he's not happy because he just wants to be 0:50:19.800 --> 0:50:21.840 like the rest of us. And that's the thing that 0:50:21.960 --> 0:50:26.759 really strikes any audience. That's why fallible heroes and underdogs 0:50:26.840 --> 0:50:32.240 are the best characters in literature and storytelling, because people 0:50:32.320 --> 0:50:33.319 identify with that. 0:50:35.480 --> 0:50:39.520 And this is probably why you listener have made it here, 0:50:40.080 --> 0:50:44.200 because Damon's story, as bizarre and outlandish as it is, 0:50:44.200 --> 0:50:47.960 is inherently relatable and obviously all the blood of Ceremony 0:50:47.960 --> 0:50:51.480 stuff was hilarious too. But maybe something about this story 0:50:51.560 --> 0:50:55.520 sparked a curiosity about these things for yourself. So what 0:50:55.600 --> 0:50:58.759 can you do to find sexual enlightenment if you can't 0:50:58.760 --> 0:51:01.560 afford thousands of dollars for a ticket to an Illuminati 0:51:01.600 --> 0:51:04.680 sex party? I don't fucking know. I don't know you, 0:51:06.520 --> 0:51:09.560 But a good first step, as Damon has pointed out, 0:51:09.800 --> 0:51:12.799 is to ask ourselves what would I want if I 0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:16.680 could have anything? Because when we break through our mental 0:51:16.719 --> 0:51:20.000 barriers and challenge the default settings we're taught to obey, 0:51:20.600 --> 0:51:23.200 that's when we begin to understand what we want and need, 0:51:23.880 --> 0:51:27.200 Like what turns me on? What kind of relationships make 0:51:27.239 --> 0:51:30.359 me feel safe and fulfilled? Where can I buy one 0:51:30.400 --> 0:51:33.080 of those sexy lamp costumes? And why the fuck is 0:51:33.120 --> 0:51:36.319 sex work so taboo in our society? Why don't I 0:51:36.360 --> 0:51:38.239 just ask my partner to strap me down on the 0:51:38.280 --> 0:51:41.920 dining table and feed me lobster and donperi yon, or 0:51:42.120 --> 0:51:45.359 more realistically, shrimp from prosecco and then have their way 0:51:45.400 --> 0:51:49.280 with me. Having conversations about these things with your partner 0:51:49.560 --> 0:51:52.800 or your friends will ideally make you feel less alone. 0:51:53.320 --> 0:51:56.320 Like David Winkler said, You're not the only pervert in town. 0:51:57.200 --> 0:52:01.760 Because true freedom, I think, is being able to decide 0:52:01.960 --> 0:52:05.520 for yourself, whether that means having daily five sums to 0:52:05.560 --> 0:52:09.319 the soundtrack of Monks Chanting or spending seventy years in 0:52:09.360 --> 0:52:13.680 a monogamous relationship. But finding what works takes some trial 0:52:13.719 --> 0:52:14.280 and error. 0:52:14.640 --> 0:52:17.520 And I'll leave it with this my Aunty West. You know, 0:52:17.560 --> 0:52:19.160 when I was doing Sanctum, she was. 0:52:19.160 --> 0:52:21.919 Like, what are you doing to change the world? 0:52:22.040 --> 0:52:24.759 All these you know, rich guys and young girls and 0:52:25.160 --> 0:52:29.080 it's just bullshit? And I'd be like, no, West, Like 0:52:29.200 --> 0:52:32.799 I'm fucking opening up people's minds and like society's been 0:52:33.520 --> 0:52:36.239 making people feel like sex was bad, and I'm like 0:52:36.400 --> 0:52:40.000 liberating people you don't understand, you know. While I was 0:52:40.040 --> 0:52:43.000 sort of like having that conversation with her and fighting 0:52:43.040 --> 0:52:45.800 against that any of what she was saying could be real. 0:52:46.480 --> 0:52:48.760 You know, with time, I look back and I think 0:52:49.280 --> 0:52:51.520 maybe she was right about some of that. Maybe my 0:52:51.600 --> 0:52:54.759 intentions were good, but maybe I wasn't getting it right, 0:52:55.120 --> 0:52:57.880 and so yeah, maybe I'll get it right this time. 0:52:58.160 --> 0:53:00.160 And isn't that the hope for all of us? Then 0:53:00.200 --> 0:53:04.279 we'll get it right this time. Okay, I gotta go. 0:53:04.520 --> 0:53:07.160 I'm late for original sacrifice and I'm playing the Virgin 0:53:14.480 --> 0:53:17.200 Sanctum Unmasted is the production of School of Humans and 0:53:17.280 --> 0:53:22.240 iHeart Podcasts, Hosted and written by me Carly Schortina. Edily's 0:53:22.280 --> 0:53:25.799 Perez is our lead producer and story editor. Amelia Brock 0:53:25.960 --> 0:53:29.160 is our senior producer. Sound design, scoring and mixing by 0:53:29.200 --> 0:53:34.080 George Hicks. Original music composed by Jesse Niswanger, backchecking by 0:53:34.120 --> 0:53:38.719 Austin Thompson. Local illustration by Linda McNeil. Clay Hillenberg is 0:53:38.760 --> 0:53:43.440 our recording engineer. Recorded at iHeart Studios in Los Angeles, California. 0:53:43.640 --> 0:53:48.440 Executive producers are Nick Stump, Jason English, Virginia Prescott, Branded 0:53:48.520 --> 0:53:52.680 barr Els Crowley, and me Carly Schortina. If you're enjoying 0:53:52.680 --> 0:53:54.319 the show, help us get the word out by leaving 0:53:54.360 --> 0:53:57.040 a rating in your favorite podcast app. You can keep 0:53:57.120 --> 0:54:00.680 up with Damon on Instagram. He's at Father Damon. Thanks 0:54:00.680 --> 0:54:01.240 for listening.