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Speaker 1: I had this nightmare that I was cast onto drag

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Speaker 1: Grace and I was competing in the profits. There was

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Speaker 1: a moment during the show where the cameras were down

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Speaker 1: and I needed to go use the bathroom. And when

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Speaker 1: I was taking a ship, they were like calling like places, places,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, fuck, I need to like go,

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Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, the walls of the

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Speaker 1: bathroom dropped and I was sitting on the toy that

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Speaker 1: in front of the entire cast of this Drag Race

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Speaker 1: season and Row laughing at me, and the whole thing

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Speaker 1: had been staged. I'm not proud of this, but I've

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Speaker 1: never been on the Dakota Johnson train. You know what,

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Speaker 1: fran I will not accept any Dakota Johnson slander, because

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Speaker 1: today we are lifting Dakota up and celebration and thanking

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Speaker 1: her for the amazing, incredible show stopping never the same bus, club,

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Speaker 1: another club, another club, bus, no sleep, next plane, no sleep.

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Speaker 1: Gift that she gave the world, which is fifty shades

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Speaker 1: of gray, yes, and then after that, of course, becoming

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Speaker 1: the crew the director of a very bougie lube company

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Speaker 1: that I will say I was a fan of before

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Speaker 1: she hopped Onto, but it is a great loop Virgins.

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Speaker 1: Today we are talking about fifty shades of great, not

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Speaker 1: just the movies, not just the books, but the fifty

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Speaker 1: shades of great phenomenon, which is you know that these

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Speaker 1: are the best selling books of the twenty tents. Um.

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Speaker 1: This was a moment in pop culture, took pop culture

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Speaker 1: by storm, and we will be revisiting it because this

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Speaker 1: is like a Virgin the show where we give yesterday's

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Speaker 1: pop culture today's takes. I'm ros Damo and I'm Fran Toroto. Fran,

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Speaker 1: are you ready to be tied up and dominated? Um,

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Speaker 1: you're asking for my consent? Um? No, okay, And I

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Speaker 1: guess podcast over and just like that season one, and

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Speaker 1: I mean what I'm hoping is the only season of

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Speaker 1: and just like that, but probably won't be has ended.

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Speaker 1: What did you think? What did you think of the finale?

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Speaker 1: I mean you hated it obviously, but what's your nuanced

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Speaker 1: and can you provide analysis of why you hated it? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: There were parts of it that I liked, Okay, I

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Speaker 1: loved Carrie's dress in Paris incredible, although he did she

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Speaker 1: should have been wearing the carry necklace. Um. I loved Harry.

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Speaker 1: Harry was amazing. Let's let's start with Harri okay, because

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Speaker 1: Harry sucked up every scene. Harry like now joins the

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Speaker 1: legacy of iconic Sex in the City guest stars. That's

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Speaker 1: so true. She really brought that zaney nous back into

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Speaker 1: Sex in the City. I think that's something that's really

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Speaker 1: were we were missing from this reboot. And just like

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Speaker 1: that universe is so much And here's the thing. The

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Speaker 1: buzz around Harry is a lot. And they originally had

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Speaker 1: her reading for the book publisher role, and then they

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Speaker 1: had her comeback in and they wrote this role for Harry,

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Speaker 1: which is thank how much they liked her. She need

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Speaker 1: she needed room to breathe. I'm glad we got so

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Speaker 1: much Rabbi Jen and she was so integrated into the

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Speaker 1: storyline and to all the girls storylines. Yes, she was

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Speaker 1: like the Deos x Machina of like their relationship drama honestly,

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Speaker 1: which I loved um and I foresee Harry in season two.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, I think that makes her the fourth

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Speaker 1: girl good well, I mean I don't know about I mean,

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Speaker 1: she would be amazing at them as the fourth note.

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Speaker 1: But we should use her, use her space. I don't

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Speaker 1: think they deserve her. I don't actually trust these women

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Speaker 1: with like a trans friend because hart character is trans

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Speaker 1: in this iteration at the at the mitzvah, which I mean,

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Speaker 1: I guess let's getting to the stuff that I didn't like.

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Speaker 1: Because Rock York Golden Black needs to be in jail. Um.

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Speaker 1: I think actually everyone and and just like that should

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Speaker 1: be in jail. The only person who shouldn't be is

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Speaker 1: Rabbi Jen. She can have the keys, she can lock

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Speaker 1: them up, but everyone everyone else belongs in prison. I

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Speaker 1: will say, as a Jews I was happy to see

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Speaker 1: like such an accurate representation of what one of these

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Speaker 1: over the top barmitz was looks like that being said,

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Speaker 1: it was so unrealistic that they would just let Rock

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Speaker 1: not go through with it. Although it was funny to

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Speaker 1: see them trying to bribe Rock, because that is very

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Speaker 1: fucking funny. What do you want an oculut? That definitely

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Speaker 1: happened to me in some way, like I was given

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Speaker 1: some kind of material reward for like training for my

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Speaker 1: bar mitzvah, but like just trying to bribe Rock just

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Speaker 1: to do it was like I imagine that has happened

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Speaker 1: to a lot of people, but what a fucking little

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Speaker 1: piece of ship. I feel like I had a slightly

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Speaker 1: different takeaway from this. I was on Team Rock. I

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Speaker 1: thought also Rock licked Dora that I have to go.

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Speaker 1: I've got to go. This podcast is over. Rock was

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Speaker 1: not a Team Rock podcast. Also, have never heard Rocky

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Speaker 1: or Golden Black said out loud, which is was very

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Speaker 1: jarring for you to say, But now that I'm hearing it,

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Speaker 1: like I I know this person. I know Rocky or

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Speaker 1: Golden Black like a some crunchy queer hipster pretending to

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Speaker 1: be some crunchy queer hipster, but it's actually, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: We've worked with them, We've had sex with them, we've

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Speaker 1: been at parties with them. Like but I I, you know,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was an amazing plot point, and I

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Speaker 1: was totally on rock side about kind of coming coming

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Speaker 1: at a head in so many different areas of your

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Speaker 1: life and being like, Okay, these are all the things

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Speaker 1: I've called in a question about my gender, So of course,

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Speaker 1: like when like when I start to think about my religion,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna like question that too. And you know, a

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Speaker 1: kid would wait until the eleventh hour to decide that

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Speaker 1: they don't want to do this anymore, and I thought

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Speaker 1: it was also I wish I had been explained more,

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Speaker 1: but it was a really nice way to tie together

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Speaker 1: what was wrong about the whole experience, which is that

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Speaker 1: the whole day mitzvah was really about Charlotte. It was

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Speaker 1: about what Charlotte wanted. Yeah, that was a mits was

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Speaker 1: are about I know, but that's about the parents. Like

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Speaker 1: that's kind of what Rock was trying to say but couldn't.

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Speaker 1: And so suck it up, suck it up and take

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Speaker 1: the thousands of dollars you're going to get his gifts. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And honestly, the vibe Roc was getting with a little

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Speaker 1: like like kind of like a coexist kind of queer

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Speaker 1: like kind of I did like Rock Suit. I like

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Speaker 1: Ross Suit. The pink suit was great. I mean otherwise, like,

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Speaker 1: I guess we have to talk about jay I. Okay,

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Speaker 1: Chad is announcing their pilot via song at a huge

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Speaker 1: party when like, I mean, yeah, getting a pilot is exciting,

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Speaker 1: but also like that pilot is probably not getting picked up,

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Speaker 1: and if it is, it's getting canceled after one season,

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Speaker 1: So like have the party later, you know, Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: too early to celebrate. Although I love giving Sarah Ramirez

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Speaker 1: a chance to sing they are a Broadway icon, as

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Speaker 1: we have talked about. I thought like that the whole Miranda,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with you to l A thing was

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Speaker 1: like really unhinged. I loved and going back to Harry,

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Speaker 1: like the scene in the bathroom where they kind of

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Speaker 1: like come at ahead of like are you going to Paris?

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Speaker 1: Are you going to l A? Are you going to

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Speaker 1: do both or neither? Whatever? Like that was so real,

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Speaker 1: And I thought Miranda saying I'm allowed to change, like

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Speaker 1: I'm allowed to completely up end everything you know about

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Speaker 1: me as a character because I'm having a crisis, like

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Speaker 1: I am calling into question everything that I've believed before

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Speaker 1: this moment. I thought that that earned a lot of

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Speaker 1: what we saw this season that was like so frustrating

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Speaker 1: about you know, Miranda becoming this kind of hard to

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Speaker 1: watch character. I don't know. There was just no resolution

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Speaker 1: for it, though, because the resolution like saying I'm allowed

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Speaker 1: to change, isn't the resolution of a story, especially if

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Speaker 1: this does end up being the only season, Like that's

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Speaker 1: where we leave Miranda. Yeah, I just need you to

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Speaker 1: know that I don't I don't care who I'm dating

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Speaker 1: I don't care if I'm dating like this Disney like

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Speaker 1: prince of a human being. Like I would never ever

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Speaker 1: pass up on a trip to Paris with you to

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Speaker 1: dispel your husban. Thank you. That's really sweet of you.

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Speaker 1: I would also never pay for you to come to

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Speaker 1: Paris with me. I did love that. Once Miranda canceled,

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Speaker 1: Carrie was like, Charlotte, I'm not going to Paris to people,

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Speaker 1: there's no way. It was extremely accurate though it's and true.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and Charlotte knows her place. She's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like word like I understand. Yeah, with the Shadeas of

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Speaker 1: it all, you know. I was reading this Vulture article

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Speaker 1: where they interviewed all of the writers from and just

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Speaker 1: like that, and one of them was saying, like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we knew people were going to hate Shadeas, like that

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Speaker 1: was the point. They were supposed to be this like caricature.

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Speaker 1: And that just made me so angry because you can't

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Speaker 1: say that after the fact, to like retcon your bad

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Speaker 1: choices like that has to all be on the page

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Speaker 1: when you write the script and on the screen when

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Speaker 1: you shoot it. You can't say after you've seen all

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Speaker 1: the tweets, like ha ha, we knew, we knew everyone

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Speaker 1: was going to be Team Steve, like this was all intentional,

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Speaker 1: because that's not clear from the show. All you have

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Speaker 1: is the text and it doesn't It didn't work, And

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Speaker 1: I call bullshit on that. I call bullshit as well,

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Speaker 1: especially when there are no Latin or non binary writers

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Speaker 1: in this room. It just makes them look bad, like

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Speaker 1: they're punching down, you know what I mean. If like

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Speaker 1: there were a bunch of men like writing a role

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Speaker 1: for a woman as to like, you know, why she's

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Speaker 1: like a funk up or whatever, like why she's like

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Speaker 1: a villain, Like you would feel kind of a type

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Speaker 1: of way about that, you know what I mean. There's

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Speaker 1: a difference between creating a character that is so villainous

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Speaker 1: that you love to hate them. She is someone we

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Speaker 1: hate to hate. Like it's not fun to watch. There's

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Speaker 1: nothing about what brings this character together that is satiating.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's a testament to the intentions of

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Speaker 1: their writing and what we see actually on screen versus

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Speaker 1: like what we're reacting to. It's just it's just not

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Speaker 1: sticking the landing to me. Also, sorry, she would never

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Speaker 1: be monogamous, So there's I don't understand nor should nor

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Speaker 1: should they have to be, you know, which is why

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Speaker 1: it's like such a missed opportunity for there to be

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Speaker 1: queer queer like actually like nonminary writers in this room

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Speaker 1: to talk about like the nuances of what sex and

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Speaker 1: the City characters could learn about queer relationships, which has

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Speaker 1: so much to teach them. But honestly, this is rounding

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Speaker 1: to like what I feel as like my resounding point

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Speaker 1: about the finale, which is that where we are ending

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Speaker 1: at the end of season one is actually where we

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Speaker 1: we should have started, you know what I mean? I

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Speaker 1: feel like season would have been just like that is

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Speaker 1: so much like grief and like all these kind of

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Speaker 1: character rearranges and so much like upheaval that was like

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Speaker 1: not really earned, but like I would much rather start

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Speaker 1: the season with biggest Dad. Miranda is divorced and dating

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Speaker 1: someone non binary, you know, shar has a non binary kid.

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Speaker 1: Samantha is about to re enter the franchise question mark,

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Speaker 1: Like that is a starting point and I did not

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Speaker 1: need to watch like the season worth of what was

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Speaker 1: the Reject? Did Nicholas Sparks novel of like Carrie's grief

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Speaker 1: plot line? You know what? I mean, like it really

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Speaker 1: was not like the T and I didn't I didn't

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Speaker 1: need it to forget. Yes, I didn't need to watch

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Speaker 1: your like tragic kiss on a stoop with that, but

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Speaker 1: I did like the kiss with the hot producer. That

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Speaker 1: was good. We needed a start rebounds. Yeah, but like no,

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Speaker 1: I I do think it makes sense that it ends

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Speaker 1: in a more hopeful way than it started. Honestly, when

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Speaker 1: they were talking about Miranda, Miranda and her internship, Miranda

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Speaker 1: rejecting an are you kidding me? There isn't a world

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Speaker 1: where in any fifty plus year old woman is vying

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Speaker 1: for an internship or has any sort of stakes in

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Speaker 1: an unpaid internship. Well, also, like it was just too

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Speaker 1: late to introduce that as an obstacle, Like they should

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Speaker 1: have seeded that earlier in the season, like show us

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Speaker 1: her trying to get the internships, so we understand what

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Speaker 1: she's giving, and it should be like the state was

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Speaker 1: so unclear she I mean it could be an apprenticeship.

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Speaker 1: It should she should be at the directorial level, Like

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Speaker 1: there's she's studied, she has all this experience in another field.

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Speaker 1: She would have come back and been at a much

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Speaker 1: higher level. It just doesn't make sense. Um. But all

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Speaker 1: that to say, even though the finale was not really

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Speaker 1: that great at tying all of the ends that we

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Speaker 1: were interested in, I did enjoy my way through it,

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Speaker 1: um with with the exception of like the Talking Lamp

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Speaker 1: and like the ashes of it all. Yeah, well I

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Speaker 1: don't this is not you know, ooky spooky our. That's

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Speaker 1: not what I came here for. And like also her

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Speaker 1: saying that bigs in Heaven, I hate to break it

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Speaker 1: to you, but biggest burning in hell in hell in hell,

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Speaker 1: I am going to miss the show. I'm gonna miss. Well,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna miss. I don't know what I'm going to

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Speaker 1: do on Thursdays anymore. Okay, Well, what have you been

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Speaker 1: watching this week? M oh, I've been listening to a

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Speaker 1: lot of the new music that's been coming out. I

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Speaker 1: shockingly love the new Mitsky album, and I am on record,

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Speaker 1: possibly on this podcast, as not really being into Mitsky. Surprising. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is surprising because she does seem like someone who

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Speaker 1: would be exactly my Josh, but Be the Cowboy really

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Speaker 1: didn't do it for me and I even after listening

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Speaker 1: to her new album, I went back and listened to

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Speaker 1: Be the Cowboy to be like, oh was I like

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Speaker 1: not giving it a fair shot, and no I still

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Speaker 1: don't like it. Um. I think it's this something specific

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Speaker 1: about this album, like it's very cynthy um, which I

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Speaker 1: really liked. Um, and you know, it's like so good

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Speaker 1: that I will even forgive it for only being like

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Speaker 1: thirty minutes long, which girls make your albums longer. We

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Speaker 1: are not. I'm not here for EPs. No, no, no cowards,

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Speaker 1: come on. I also I'm I'm I like Mitsky, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not a Mitsky head. This album also appealed to

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Speaker 1: me because if it's it's dance, I guess um vibes

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Speaker 1: I Love should have been me. That's maybe my favorite

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Speaker 1: song on the album. I think that should have been

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Speaker 1: the way it kind of like good. I Also one

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Speaker 1: of my friends, Jaslin, did the choreography for this Stay

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Speaker 1: is Soft music video I think, which is also a

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Speaker 1: really good song. Um. But yeah, I mean welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Mitsky clan. I'm I'm glad to have you Rose.

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Speaker 1: All of the girls on this side of town are

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Speaker 1: are here to welcome you. Yeah. I loved like the

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Speaker 1: only heartbreaker is so good love me more. There's definitely

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Speaker 1: more of um, like a st vincent kind of vibe

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Speaker 1: on this album, which really appeals to me. And I'm

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Speaker 1: just so happy that we have, you know, these women

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Speaker 1: who are still making rock and roll um that you know,

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Speaker 1: because that is very much like a musical sweet spot

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Speaker 1: for me. Also, this weekend, I was listening to on

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Speaker 1: repeat um the machine Gun Kelly and Willow Songmo Girls.

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Speaker 1: I winced and then smiled because I was like, machine

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Speaker 1: Gun Kelly, No Willow, Yeah, Okay, yeah, it's a It's

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Speaker 1: the song called Emo Girl, and it's about being in

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Speaker 1: love with an emo girl, and it's like it's so

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Speaker 1: catchy and like addictive Willow. The Willow clubs are sick

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Speaker 1: the club with Avril when av was so good, perfect

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Speaker 1: use of Avril. I just it's it was so well done. Okay,

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Speaker 1: moving on to Drag Race. The only thing I have

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Speaker 1: to say is that this is the funniest mini challenge

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Speaker 1: in the history of Drag Race, point blank period. I

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Speaker 1: was it was very funny when Sa McLaughlin showed up,

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Speaker 1: I gag. I think the challenges have been really good

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Speaker 1: this season, like this and like last week where they

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Speaker 1: had to make the teaser, like that's very inventive and

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Speaker 1: I really like it. Um. My big takeaway from this

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Speaker 1: episode was Georgia's fucking eight that lip sing. Honestly, like

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Speaker 1: she should have um, I don't know, like one twice

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Speaker 1: because of it. They should she should have like retroactively

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Speaker 1: won the challenge because of how good that lip sync performance.

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Speaker 1: I kind of think Georgia should have been in the

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Speaker 1: bottom last episode two and maybe the episode before that,

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Speaker 1: because I would have loved to watch her lip sync

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Speaker 1: for her life every time, Like she I think is

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Speaker 1: an assassin. Like I don't think we even saw her

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Speaker 1: in that episode. No, I don't think so either. I

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Speaker 1: do wonder if she'll because I think I think about

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Speaker 1: like the narrative slots that that different contestants fill in

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Speaker 1: their season. I wonder if she will be one of

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Speaker 1: the ones who does poorly early on and then realizes

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Speaker 1: they have to step their pussy up and ends up

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Speaker 1: making it, you know, all the way to the end,

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Speaker 1: or vain, or or if she's just like, you know,

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Speaker 1: going to have a couple of fierce lip sings and

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Speaker 1: then eventually they're like, okay, but you still suck in

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Speaker 1: the challenges, so you're going home. Yeah, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: going to be a Cheachy or a Trinity Cabon, a

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Speaker 1: kind of redemption. Maybe I would love to see that,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, even if she's not technically as good

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Speaker 1: as some of the other girls. Are you watching UK

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Speaker 1: versus the World? I am, we are, you know, I

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Speaker 1: haven't watched it, but I'm I'm interested. Can I please

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Speaker 1: please please please, ma'am yeuse I I give you to

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Speaker 1: watch Drag Race Canada season one because like, I'm not watching.

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Speaker 1: I'm not watching. I'm not watching a seasonal drag Race

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Speaker 1: without RuPaul. No. That's another thing I'll say about this

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Speaker 1: current season of Drag Race that Mr Paul is kind

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Speaker 1: of serving like he's he's been really on his game. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I have to say, like, that's why I won't watch,

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Speaker 1: you know, like many of these international seasons, because it's

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Speaker 1: not drag Race without RuPaul for me. I mean, I okay,

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Speaker 1: I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, especially

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Speaker 1: even though as I say that I can feel the

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Speaker 1: estrogen beings out of my body. Um. I think, um,

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Speaker 1: particularly with the game we watched, like I love that

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Speaker 1: they're straight up hazing Maddie morphosis, Like yeah, yeah, they

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Speaker 1: are like every like like when when it was Maddie's turn,

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Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I love, rude,

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Speaker 1: that's what Yeah, it was that very much was the

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Speaker 1: energy like you're gay but rose all of the virgin

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Speaker 1: I wish Maddie. I wish Maddy MorphOS is like said no,

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Speaker 1: homo before she started doing it, like I want her

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Speaker 1: to be in on the joke a little more if

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Speaker 1: we have to have her. Yeah, I agree, it's whatever.

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Speaker 1: But on that note, you would not be saying what

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Speaker 1: you're saying about rue if you saw her runway for

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Speaker 1: UK Versus the World, which I know you did because

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Speaker 1: you saw my Instagram story. But girl, she cleaned up

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Speaker 1: at Sheen. She got her this ugly ass velvet like

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Speaker 1: pink string. Who she dress so something you would wear

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Speaker 1: a till party. Yeah, looked like a full mall rat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, giving me my brats doll aesthetic. Yeah yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: a tell far bag in a poorly done smoky eye. Um.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you're getting there. No, no, no, everyone sending

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Speaker 1: me please send in makeup tips for France. I will

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Speaker 1: I will receive makeup tips if you receive campaigns to

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Speaker 1: please watch Canada Season one because coming back to UK

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Speaker 1: Versus the World. Jimbo and his involvement in that season

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Speaker 1: is like essential knowledge for watching UK versus the World.

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Speaker 1: You have to see what Jimbo does with his art

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Speaker 1: in order to see someone send me in a YouTube

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Speaker 1: super cut with the highlights. I'll watch them. Fine, I'm

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Speaker 1: not watching the whole season. Okay, fine, fine, if you're

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Speaker 1: not going to watch it. But my point is for

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Speaker 1: those that aren't watching UK's Versus the World, I don't

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Speaker 1: know why it's called that. It's not formatted as a

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Speaker 1: UK versus the rest of the people on this show.

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Speaker 1: It is literally just International All Stars. It's All Stars rules.

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Speaker 1: So the winner's lip sync and they eliminate someone from

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Speaker 1: the bottom two. So, I mean, I love those rules.

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Speaker 1: I'm it makes it so much more fun to watch it.

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Speaker 1: What's really fascinating is they did not enter the workroom.

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Speaker 1: They entered the runway, and it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: little like Meet the Queen's kind of moment, or re

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Speaker 1: Meet the Queen's kind of moment, as opposed to, um,

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Speaker 1: you know this, like we're chroom drama that kind of

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Speaker 1: happens at the beginning. But I mean, some of my

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Speaker 1: main takeaways from the show are that there's just like

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Speaker 1: nothing left behind Jujubes eyes, like she's just dead girl

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Speaker 1: dead inside. I I she is one of my all

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Speaker 1: time favorites, and it's it's really hard. She's one of

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Speaker 1: the best, She's one of the best, and it's so

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Speaker 1: hard to watch her do this because her soul just

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Speaker 1: isn't in it anymore at all. Like even big Juju

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Speaker 1: fans like me can admit that, like this was such

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Speaker 1: a below average like performance in the beginning of the show,

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Speaker 1: like you'll see it's just like so like not Juju,

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Speaker 1: And honestly, you just like see the light leaver eyes

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Speaker 1: as RuPaul cackles in the bathroom and as RuPaul cackles

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Speaker 1: in the background, Um, I just wanted to say, RuPaul's

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Speaker 1: in the bathroom making sure that there's no treadswomen in there.

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Speaker 1: She's like here he called me, get your ass out

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Speaker 1: of Um. What Jimbo does on UK Versus the World

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Speaker 1: is high art and it honestly helped made me appreciate

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Speaker 1: what few like performance artists we have on this show.

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Speaker 1: Like I think willow Hill is kind of performance. I

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Speaker 1: think even like Sasha Willowers heartbreaking on this episode of

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Speaker 1: Drag Race. She was so good and then when she

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Speaker 1: was talking about her body breaking down, it was so sad.

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Speaker 1: That was the moment I want her to win me too,

395
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Speaker 1: because Cornbread getting eliminated. We need to talk about cornbread.

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Speaker 1: I was goop gooped. It was a good episode. It

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Speaker 1: was an exquisite episode of television in in large part

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Speaker 1: because of these twists and turns. These girls are selling

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Speaker 1: their souls and holes away to Satan slash rubaal that

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00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,520
Speaker 1: that they are, that they are, and the same as

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00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 1: the case for International All Stars, which is what I'll

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Speaker 1: be calling UK versus the world. The most important takeaway

403
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:52,920
Speaker 1: is that Pangina for the win. Mama Pangina is hot hot, Yeah.

404
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,200
Speaker 1: But I guess like there's also like a weird aspect

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Speaker 1: of it, like you are the best of the best

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Speaker 1: in your country, like so good that we had you

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Speaker 1: host our show. But but even being that means you

408
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Speaker 1: are not on the level of the host in this

409
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Speaker 1: country's version of drag. But there is precedent for it

410
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 1: now because you know, when they put baby Zahara Bane

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Speaker 1: into the show, they were like, what the fuss she

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Speaker 1: already won? You know what I mean? Like or I

413
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Speaker 1: think they've done a version of this before, like where

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Speaker 1: it's like a winner and a host. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: guess like didn't Brooklyn Heights came back as one of

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Speaker 1: the lip sync assassins. She was the host of Canada's

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00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,080
Speaker 1: Drag Race, but she was originally a contestant, So I

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Speaker 1: don't know. It's just it's just interesting. It's a little

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Speaker 1: like it's a little colonialist, which considering it's UK versus

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Speaker 1: the world, like yikes, yikes. So so what you're saying

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Speaker 1: is that this show, this show is about imperialism. It

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00:22:49,680 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 1: is imperials, yes, the imperialism of drag So fifty Shades

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00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,760
Speaker 1: of Gray. This is a very true example of the

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00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: premise of this podcast because I had to literally force

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Speaker 1: Frand to watch this with me. Actually kick um, I will.

426
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: I want to set the intention and like I want

427
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: the virgins to understand the context of fifty Shades of Gray.

428
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:36,159
Speaker 1: I un ironically and very earnestly and passionately and spiritually

429
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:40,359
Speaker 1: love this movie. I think I love this series of films.

430
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 1: I believe you have said on this podcast that is

431
00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: they're the best. They're the best films ever made, all

432
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: three of them, not just the first, As that being said,

433
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: I have never read the books. Uh. The only time

434
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 1: I did ever read a section of the Fifty Shades

435
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,800
Speaker 1: of Gray novel was um over someone's shoulder on a

436
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 1: plane once because they were squirming in their seat next

437
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 1: to me while reading something and I wanted to see

438
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 1: what it was, and it was Fifty Shades of Gray.

439
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 1: The only time I've ever heard a passage of this

440
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 1: book was when it was read by Gilbert Godfried for

441
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: something I can't remember who, Gilbert Godfrey. It was the

442
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 1: fun Is he alive? Did he diet? But it was,

443
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: I will say, extremely funny. It was very well done. Um.

444
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 1: But in a way I have read Fifty Shades of

445
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 1: Gray because I've read Twilight, right of course, so give

446
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 1: us the context here, Where where does the franchise come from? Well,

447
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,200
Speaker 1: fifty Shades of Gray. If you've never read the books

448
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:42,560
Speaker 1: were seen the movies is three stories about Anastasia Steel,

449
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,960
Speaker 1: the most unrealistic name of a character ever in history,

450
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: who is a sort of mousy college student who meets

451
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,880
Speaker 1: a kinky billionaire and and gets involved in a sort

452
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 1: of reluctant b D s M relationship with him, and

453
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 1: the series is about her wanting him to stop being

454
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: kinky and be in like a normal relationship with her,

455
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 1: and him wanting to like hit her and take out

456
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: his mommy issues on her. That is the basic premise

457
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: of all three movies. I I want to get into it,

458
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,080
Speaker 1: but I just have to tell you where I'm coming

459
00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: from Rose, which is obviously I haven't read the books,

460
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,440
Speaker 1: but I was working at Random House in the wake

461
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,720
Speaker 1: of fifty Shades Mania. I worked as a studio assistant,

462
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: and I have some real beef with this book franchise

463
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: because the year I started to work there was the

464
00:25:36,119 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: year immediately after every employee at Random House got a

465
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,879
Speaker 1: five thousand dollar Christmas bonus. Every single employee, a company

466
00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: of thousands of people, every employee got a five thousand

467
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 1: dollar bonus because of fifty Shades money. Isn't that crazy?

468
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 1: Like the CEO was like, we made so much money

469
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,800
Speaker 1: that every employee gets you get a call? Are you

470
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 1: get a car? I was just anyways, I was furious,

471
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,159
Speaker 1: which is very interesting to think about because we have

472
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: to set fifty Shades of Gray in context, because fifty

473
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: Shades of Gray is fan fiction. We talked about this

474
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 1: briefly in our Twilight episode with Peyton Dicks, which you

475
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: should definitely go listen to if you haven't. Um. Fifty

476
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: Shades of Gray was originally published as a Twilight fan

477
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:25,479
Speaker 1: fiction called Master of the Universe. It was written, it

478
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 1: was written. It was written under the pen name wait

479
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: for it, Snow Queen's Ice Dragon. Snow Queen's Ice Dragon.

480
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: I hate that, but also, yeah, that is kind of

481
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,120
Speaker 1: a serve of a fan fiction screen name. So this

482
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 1: was written as a Twilight fan fiction in which Edward

483
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: was just this kinky billionaire. Bella was like basically just Bella.

484
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: One of the biggest complaints with Twilight is how puritanical

485
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: it is. And you know, the main tension of the

486
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 1: CEA is that, as we talked about with Peyton, Bella

487
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:06,560
Speaker 1: wants to fuck Edward, and Edward won't fuck Bella because

488
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 1: he's a vampire and his superpowered dick would like cave

489
00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: in her skull if she gave him head. It is

490
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: the sole engine of the screenplay pretty much, and so

491
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: like fifty Shades takes that and flips it's on its head,

492
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: which is that, you know, Christian Gray or Edward Cullen

493
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:31,400
Speaker 1: in the fan fiction is very willing to fuck Anastasia

494
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,679
Speaker 1: or Bella, but won't give her the emotional intimacy she

495
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 1: wants because he has this, you know, like tortured past.

496
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 1: And there are a lot of kind of characteristic mirrorings

497
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,440
Speaker 1: between the two which we'll get into. It's the they're

498
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: exactly the same, like all of the characters are are

499
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 1: like the character the basic like tenants of their personalities

500
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 1: are completely unchanged. Right, Except the tension of Fifty Shades

501
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: is that Christian Gray is kind of inducting her into

502
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: bedous m I was going to say culture, but it's

503
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: not really bad and culture, which we'll talk about, and

504
00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:11,080
Speaker 1: in Twilight, it's more like Edward kind of being like,

505
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 1: these are my vamp this is my vampire culture. You're

506
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,679
Speaker 1: not allowed to be in it. It's a little it's

507
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 1: a slightly different kind of tension. Yeah, So I want

508
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: to kind of walk us through the history of of

509
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 1: the publication of Master of the Universe and how it

510
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:28,239
Speaker 1: became the book and movie franchise we know today. Let

511
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 1: me just buckle in. So when Snow Queen's Ice Dragon,

512
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: we have to see the full name every So when E. L. James,

513
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: the artists formerly known as Snow Queen's Ice Dragon again

514
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:44,160
Speaker 1: publishing Master of the Universe. UM, she did something that

515
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 1: like it doesn't really happen a lot in fan fiction,

516
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: or at least like as someone who has read fan

517
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: of fiction like my entire adult and adolescent life and

518
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: still does. UM. She wrote that when she was published

519
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,239
Speaker 1: in this story, it was like in real time and

520
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 1: she had a real like relationship with her audience and

521
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 1: in her author's notes when she was publishing the story,

522
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 1: like each new chapter she would ask people for like

523
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 1: suggestions on on plot points that they wanted to see,

524
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: and like she would get you know, feedback from them

525
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: on where they wanted the story to go. So this

526
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: really was a like community exercise, which is why I

527
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: think there is a lingering sour taste for people who

528
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: were in the Twilight community, which I UM. I was

529
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: listening to a podcast that's come out recently. It's called

530
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: The Big Hit Show, and it's about um, you know,

531
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: like huge cultural moments. I'm like, how they become that

532
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: big very brave of you to listen to. What is

533
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: your first podcast ever? I thought of you, I'm going

534
00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: to ignore that the first season is all about Twilight. UM.

535
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,560
Speaker 1: And they did do an episode, like specifically about fan fiction.

536
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,560
Speaker 1: And there were a lot of people who were in

537
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: the Twilight Phantom at the time that this is being

538
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: published who have a lot of like sore feelings about

539
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:11,360
Speaker 1: it because what E. L. James did is this trope

540
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 1: within fan fiction um that's referred to as filing off

541
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 1: the serial numbers. And it's basically like, when you write

542
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: a fan fiction it becomes really successful, you think, oh,

543
00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:26,640
Speaker 1: this has potential to actually be a book that I

544
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: can capitalize on, because the thing about fan fiction is

545
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: that it's free. You can't make money off of it. Um.

546
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's an in doubt, it's like

547
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: something that people do, like purely for the enjoyment of writing,

548
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,840
Speaker 1: of like you know, being in fandom, of like loving

549
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,960
Speaker 1: a piece of art that so much that you want

550
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: to continue playing in the world. And so when someone

551
00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: sees like commercial viability for their fan fiction, they pull

552
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: to publish and then do this thing called filing off

553
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: the serial numbers, which is like, you know what el

554
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 1: James did. She pulled her story from wherever what lived Online,

555
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: did like a searching and replace with all of the names,

556
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: and you know, published it as fifty Shades of Gray

557
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: what And it was originally actually self published of course,

558
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: like on like what on Amazon or something like that.

559
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: It was published as an e book and a print

560
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: on demand paperback, and then it became so successful because

561
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,040
Speaker 1: of like a viral marketing campaign that it was eventually

562
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:34,000
Speaker 1: published by Vintage Books and became the best seller we

563
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 1: know today, right, And so I mean you and I

564
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: watched the movie together before we get into that. I

565
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 1: think you know, there was, as we all remember, a

566
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: complete inability to avoid the conversation of hippie shades. Right.

567
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: It was such a it was such a joke, like

568
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 1: it was very very much fodder for late night you

569
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,840
Speaker 1: know um hosts to put to poke fun it. And

570
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 1: I think, like it's it's very similar to this same

571
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: criticism that surrounded Twilight when Twilight first came out, which

572
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: was people making fun of young women for wanting to

573
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: read a romantic saga, especially something that was horny. But yeah,

574
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: but like Twilight wasn't as obviously horny, of course, And

575
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: I think it's it's different. It's different versions of hating

576
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: women for the things that they're interested in. Twilight was

577
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 1: hating young women for wanting to participate in romantic fantasy,

578
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: and fifty Shades of Gray was hating women for wanting

579
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: to read something like that made them horny. Period. That

580
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: is such a good distinction because I remember like the

581
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:48,400
Speaker 1: S and L jokes about like, you know, women in

582
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: their forties and fifties like reading and like you know,

583
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: masturbating on a corner of a washing machine or whatever.

584
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. But like the you know,

585
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,080
Speaker 1: the person the people having the last laugh with this

586
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: are Stephanie Meyern L James because these things that you know,

587
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: culturally people wanted to make fun of, which are women,

588
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: and their interests are extremely profitable, you know. Like when

589
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: Twilight was released, they thought it was going to be

590
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 1: a flop, and it's one of the Yeah, it's one

591
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 1: of the biggest movie franchises ever. It made like seventy

592
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 1: million dollars it's opening weekend. I'm shocked that they thought

593
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 1: it was going to be a flop. But what's interesting also,

594
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 1: I mean, well, not to poke fun in the exact

595
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: same way we're trying to like criticize, but I will

596
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:35,560
Speaker 1: say I do remember very viscerally the images circulating online

597
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: by the time the movie franchise came out of ushers

598
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: in movie theaters finding many times soiled cucumbers. Um, do

599
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,240
Speaker 1: you remember that? No, it's not real or is that

600
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,680
Speaker 1: just like a Twitter thing? Basically, there are a series

601
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: of images online of ushers and theaters being like I

602
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: found a like a literal like soiled. I don't I

603
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: don't believe that. I think people were faking. You get

604
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: the image. It looks pretty compelling. I don't know, but

605
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: I'm not. But my point is not till I mean,

606
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: I think the hoax, that's just giving hoax. That's just

607
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: like funny, it's fun to make fun of. But it

608
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 1: is exactly in line with what you're saying. Is that

609
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: the overall kind of like punchline of at least fifty shades.

610
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: But I guess in tandem with Twilight is kind of

611
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: like women wanting things. You know, Yeah, but when there's

612
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: no one is an easier target than women and the

613
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: things that they're interested in. Well, please don't masturbate in

614
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: movie theaters. Yes, even though like women and our interests,

615
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: we drive pop culture every time, there's a reason why,

616
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 1: Like most fan fiction is written by women, and like

617
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 1: a lot of it is by queer women. I mean,

618
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,279
Speaker 1: anyone who listens to this podcast knows that I love

619
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 1: fan fiction. I am a scholar of fan fiction. But

620
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: I never I never read Fifty Shades of Gray when

621
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: they were books. I was really never interested, even though

622
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,399
Speaker 1: I knew the backstory. And I think by that point

623
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: I had kind of moved on from my Twilight interest

624
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 1: because I was very interested, or I was. I was

625
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:01,600
Speaker 1: like interested in the books when they came out, and

626
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 1: I was bored one summer and read them all and

627
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: it happened to be the summer before the movies came out,

628
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,439
Speaker 1: so I like got on the train of being really

629
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: into them. But then by the time the last Twilight

630
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: movies came out, I was like my interest had waned

631
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: the Fifty Shades of Gray came out, I like saw

632
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 1: the book phenomenon kind of from a distance, like didn't

633
00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: really participate in it. And then the movies came out,

634
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,560
Speaker 1: and did you see them? I did. I A friend

635
00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,560
Speaker 1: of mine had gone to Connecticut to do a writing

636
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 1: retreat and like some house that his like family owned,

637
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: and I went out there for a couple of days

638
00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,279
Speaker 1: and it was in this very podunc town and there

639
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: was nothing for us to do. So we decided to

640
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: go see Fifty Shades of Gray one night because it

641
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,720
Speaker 1: was the only thing playing at the movie theater and

642
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 1: I was obsessed. You were radicalized. I was radicalized as

643
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,959
Speaker 1: a fifty Shades of Gray stand and I have never

644
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:56,399
Speaker 1: looked back. And um, you know, like my my good

645
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: friend Ryan and I like we saw that the second

646
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: TOO movie together and like both ironically and un ironically

647
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: enjoyed them. Uh, you and I watched the first movie together. Um,

648
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: so I'll reserve my thoughts for now, but what was

649
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: your reaction when you saw it for the first time?

650
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: You said you were radicalized? But like what we're kind

651
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,239
Speaker 1: of the do you remember anything that you latched onto,

652
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,840
Speaker 1: whether it was like an image or something about Dakota

653
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:24,359
Speaker 1: or something about how it's framed. I think it was.

654
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: It does a lot of the things that I think

655
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: Twilight did really well in adapting the books, which is

656
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:34,280
Speaker 1: makes them cooler than the source material. So like Twilight

657
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: did that really well with the soundtrack, and fift Shades

658
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 1: of Great has great soundtrack. It's like the soundtrack is

659
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 1: so good. Fance slow mix. Well, that was such a

660
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:45,400
Speaker 1: moment when the trailer came out and it was the

661
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,720
Speaker 1: updated version of Crazy and Loves It's sublime is such

662
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: a god It's and It's film did not deserve the

663
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: effect within the movie. No, it's not. Well, we'll talk

664
00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 1: about it anyways. I I honestly cannot pinpoint what I

665
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,399
Speaker 1: love about the movies so much. I really like them.

666
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I I can acknowledge that, like the story

667
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:13,080
Speaker 1: has a lot of flaws the same way that Twilight does.

668
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,319
Speaker 1: And that's what I like about it is like it's

669
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: melodrama treated very seriously, but also like fifty shades of

670
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 1: great kind of like the Twilight movies, like does let

671
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: itself like not take itself too seriously and does kind

672
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: of like wink a little bit at like how ridiculous

673
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 1: what's happening is? Does it wink? Think? Do you think

674
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: the film is aware of itself? I feel I do?

675
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: You know what's funny is when I was watching, I

676
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: feel like Dakota is aware of what's going on. I

677
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,880
Speaker 1: think Dakoda. But I think, is that is that colored

678
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,919
Speaker 1: by like you knowing the Dakota Johnson of Tonight? That's

679
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: a really fair that's a really fair point, perhaps, And

680
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 1: I honestly think whoever is listening at home might have

681
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: an answer to that too. I think based on her performance,

682
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 1: I thought Dakota gave something that was a little more

683
00:38:05,600 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: cartoony than what Jamie Dornan and the rest of the

684
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 1: cast was doing. Like, I think that Dakota fed into

685
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: some physical comedy that to me, even though it wasn't

686
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: She obviously didn't make the movie camp or anything, you know,

687
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: but she did play an earnest character she was acting. Yeah,

688
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: I mean she's she feels pretty grounded in reality to me,

689
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of really insane shit happening around her,

690
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: and she does kind of acknowledge that. Like when Christian

691
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 1: is trying to you know, bully her into becoming his submissive,

692
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: she says to him many times like this is crazy.

693
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,920
Speaker 1: She's what you're asking of me is insane. Yeah, she

694
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: sometimes challenges him or sometimes he will say things that

695
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: you think would be very shocking and she is like, um,

696
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,080
Speaker 1: very pointedly unfazed by it. Yes, but as in Twilight

697
00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: with with Bella and Edwards, like she's just so in

698
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: love with him that she stays in this like you know,

699
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:19,440
Speaker 1: controlling relationship. When we watched the movie together, I remember

700
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: you saying at some point along our conversations about the

701
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:27,440
Speaker 1: film that, um, you feel like Anna, Anna Anna, that

702
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: Anna has more agency than Bella. If we were to

703
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: kind of compare and contrast these two entities a little bit,

704
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: because I had no idea that Bella worked at a

705
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: hardware store. Um, but Anna also works at a hardware store.

706
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 1: There are a lot of um parallels, you know, between

707
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,240
Speaker 1: these two films, but the actual like female lead, I guess,

708
00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 1: the the woman in the in the center of the

709
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: films are very different. Yeah, well Bella. You know, outside

710
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,359
Speaker 1: of a few moments, Bella really goes along with what

711
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:00,520
Speaker 1: Edward wants her to do. She finds out he's a vampire,

712
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: and she's like, okay, I'm going to become a vampire too.

713
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: I want to be with you forever. He leaves her

714
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 1: a new moon and she just completely shuts down until

715
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: another man enters her life and like inspires her to

716
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 1: like build her confidence, which not to be a snob

717
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: is like bad writing, because like the one thing you

718
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 1: need a character to do is to like make decisions

719
00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,439
Speaker 1: for themselves instead of just like letting things happen to them.

720
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: But I guess also that is kind of I guess

721
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: the charm of something like Twilight, and then it's comics.

722
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: She's comically disempowered. Yeah, and in fifty Shades like Yes,

723
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: Anastasia is so in love with Christian that she allows

724
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:40,279
Speaker 1: a lot of his bad behavior, but she also at

725
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 1: several moments is like I'm not doing this, um, but

726
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: like she eventually is talked back into it, usually by him,

727
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 1: like breaking into her home, like the one scene in

728
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: the movie where she has broken up with him and

729
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 1: she comes home and he's like standing there with wine. Yeah,

730
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: and you're like, what the and she never remarks upon

731
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,720
Speaker 1: the fact that he's broken into her home, and you know, Okay,

732
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: So I, as I, as the virgins have probably picked

733
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: up on, didn't love the movie. I think that one

734
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: of the things that I struggled with. And I don't like,

735
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: you know, I don't like yuck in people's yum. I'm

736
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: not putting you on the stand and making you like

737
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 1: defend this movie or good luck that. Yeah. Yeah, But

738
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: I feel like I have a really hard time with

739
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,320
Speaker 1: movies that come out in this day and age where

740
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:28,359
Speaker 1: all the entire engine and the entire stakes are like

741
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: built around like a white guy's dick, you know what

742
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: I mean, Like the to me, there is there's nothing

743
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: in any of the character character's motivations outside of the

744
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: fact that, like, you know, Jamie Dornan can really lay

745
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,160
Speaker 1: the pipe. You know, that's kind of like what's going

746
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 1: on in this film, and that I as much as

747
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 1: I love comedies where the whole premise is like I

748
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,400
Speaker 1: want to fuck, you know, thinking about something like fleabag

749
00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: or like never have I ever or like something like that,

750
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: I feel like there is like so much inside of there.

751
00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 1: There's not There's not a ton explored actually in the

752
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,759
Speaker 1: sex itself of the film, which is like kind of

753
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: the beating heart of what the franchise. Well. Yeah, and

754
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: it's also like this universe that I personally can't empathize with,

755
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: in which the most important thing in life is romantic love. Yeah,

756
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, these these two women, Bela Swan and Anastasia

757
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:27,799
Speaker 1: Steele put their love of these awful men before anything else,

758
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,359
Speaker 1: and that is that is the only thing in their

759
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:34,319
Speaker 1: life that that matters is the men they're in love with.

760
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: Like if the Begdel Test had like a scoring system,

761
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,839
Speaker 1: these would be like failing greats. Like they are like

762
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: groundbreaking lee, like uncomplicated, like like female leads. I think

763
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: another thing that really shook me. I don't know why

764
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:51,640
Speaker 1: it shocked me, honestly, it's kind of stupid, but like

765
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,359
Speaker 1: I said to you when you were watching, I was like,

766
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 1: I knew, I've always known that this was a fan

767
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: fiction of Twilight, but there really is like no frills,

768
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 1: no decorations, like it is fun fixition, like lifted from

769
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: the blog onto this TV screen. And I think that

770
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: that is why I was kind of sad, is that

771
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: I kind of thought maybe I was gonna like the

772
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 1: movie a lot because it would be one of those,

773
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 1: you know, so it's good kind of moments, and it

774
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: obviously was that in a lot of different ways. But

775
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 1: I think I was kind of um taken aback by

776
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: what I felt was a complete failure of the imagination

777
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,840
Speaker 1: to capture what is supposed to be a really tumultuous,

778
00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 1: sexy affair, you know what I mean. And I use

779
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:41,800
Speaker 1: the word affair like lover's affair, not like a fidelity.

780
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,399
Speaker 1: So you think that they're boring, I think that it's

781
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 1: boring as fuck. And you said yourself that every single

782
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,880
Speaker 1: sex scene in all movies are really that vanilla because

783
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:55,640
Speaker 1: all the sex, every single for those of you that

784
00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: haven't watched, every single sex scene is basically the same

785
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:02,719
Speaker 1: thing that is restrained for like three seconds, for like

786
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: three seconds, and then and then he does a little

787
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: and then he just starts sucking her, yeah, and then

788
00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 1: they just have normal like there for the first thing

789
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: they have sex is in Missionary what Well, that's because

790
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,799
Speaker 1: she's that's because she's a virgin also, you know, like

791
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 1: just just like just like Twilight, you know, fifty Shades

792
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: has a big preoccupation with virginity. Of course it does,

793
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,719
Speaker 1: and that like kind of pure heroinism is like so

794
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:28,839
Speaker 1: ikey to me, and I think, honestly, the other thing

795
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 1: that really gets me, what I was talking about earlier,

796
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,040
Speaker 1: is like the engine the film is like unfortunately and

797
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 1: you and I disagree on this. Jamie Dornan looks like

798
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 1: a fucking like he's in a fucking like target catalog.

799
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: Like I think he's so nondescript. He's not, He's on

800
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 1: He's completely conventionally attractive. He is a catalog model. I

801
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: do not see anything distinct about him in his body

802
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: or in his face, and so I think that was

803
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,839
Speaker 1: another thing It's like I was like, wait, this is

804
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: the guy. Well, you know, it was originally supposed to

805
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: be um Charlie Hoonan, who like is a little bit

806
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: more rough around the edges than Jamie Dornan, but he

807
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: backed out of the last minute because he, like what,

808
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: didn't want the level of fame that he knew he

809
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: was going to get from being in these movies. I

810
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: honestly don't know if Jamie Dornan has that level of fame, Like, yeah,

811
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: he was he not known before this really or yeah,

812
00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:29,520
Speaker 1: he he had been like on a couple of TV

813
00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: things and like since this movie, Yeah, he's in that

814
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: big like black and white Oscar movie right now, Belfast,

815
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:37,839
Speaker 1: and like he's been in a couple of other things.

816
00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: He was in Barbon Star Um, which was you know, fun.

817
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:45,560
Speaker 1: He has he he did not reach Robert Pattinson levels

818
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 1: of fame, and he certainly isn't as famous as as

819
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:52,440
Speaker 1: Dakota Johnson, right And obviously you know, well that's what

820
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 1: I was going to say, is that like Robert Pattinson is,

821
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: even though you know, not a great actor in the

822
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: Tylight movies, is like much more compelling. You disagree, you

823
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:06,279
Speaker 1: disagree on dangerous grounds whatever. Um he is. So he's

824
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 1: like dark and stormy and mysterious. He sells us on

825
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: this kind of supernatural dark horse trope, UM Cowboy from

826
00:46:13,719 --> 00:46:16,920
Speaker 1: Nowhere kind of thing that's going on. Um. But to me,

827
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 1: it's like if I were to like recast Jamie Dornan,

828
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: because obviously Dakota is perfect in the movie. If I

829
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: were to recast Jamie, I think I would want someone

830
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:31,000
Speaker 1: like a like Adam Driver or Alexander's Scars Art, someone

831
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: that we get into like that. It's funny that a

832
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,959
Speaker 1: hot person. It's funny that you bring up Adam Driver

833
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 1: because Adam Driver is the focus of another filing off

834
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: the serial Numbers fan fiction turned successful novel. UM. So

835
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: there's this romance novel that was huge, I mean still is.

836
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,320
Speaker 1: But like last year I think is when the Christendo

837
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: peaked on book talk. It's called The Love Hypothesis and

838
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:02,080
Speaker 1: it's a Star Wars rayl fan fiction. Um. Ray Low

839
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 1: is Kylo Wren and ray who are you know, the

840
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,440
Speaker 1: two leads of the newer Star Wars movies And there's

841
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: like a big shipping community about them and lots of

842
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 1: fan fiction. And this romance novel was originally written as

843
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 1: a fan fiction about them, and the author did the

844
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: same thing, finding off the serial numbers, changing their names,

845
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: and it's now like a hugely successful um romance novel

846
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 1: had no idea and I did read it, wait you

847
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 1: did it? Was you know, it was a nice way

848
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 1: to spend a day. I literally read it in like,

849
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: you know, forty eight hours. I think that that said.

850
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 1: What I'm trying to get at is I was, personally

851
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: before watching a movie very excited about what can be

852
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: explored in a power dynamic that I don't want to

853
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 1: say blurs the line of consent. But in B D,

854
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: S M and kink culture, which is not at all,

855
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: you know, exemplified in this movie, there are much more

856
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 1: nuanced approaches to how they talk about consent, because lack

857
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:05,560
Speaker 1: of consent can be someone's kink, you know what I mean,

858
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,799
Speaker 1: like someone having a kind of being overpowered. Fantasy is

859
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:13,160
Speaker 1: something that is imbuted and always talked about intracommunally in

860
00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:16,160
Speaker 1: B D, S M and kink stuff, and so I thought,

861
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 1: you know, there would have been some of that explored,

862
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 1: which I think is maybe explored in the books, but

863
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 1: not at all in the movie. I don't I don't

864
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,080
Speaker 1: think it is, but it also would have been interesting,

865
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: like if it was like um, if the power dynamic

866
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: was also like age related, like if it was more

867
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: of like a daddy, like a like a Willem Dafoe,

868
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 1: or like a it's all about capitalism, you know, it's

869
00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 1: like he has more money than her. You know, you

870
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 1: did only watch the first movie, So I think it

871
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 1: would be fun if I if I told you about

872
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 1: what happens in the rest of the topline. For me,

873
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 1: I've literally never heard this before. Okay, well, first, before

874
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:50,759
Speaker 1: I say this, we do have to talk about the

875
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,920
Speaker 1: fact that Rita or is in these films. She has

876
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: a She has a very brief cameo in the first film.

877
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: She she plays christians sister Mia, who is Alice from Twilight,

878
00:49:03,080 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: And we have to say when Rosa is very brief,

879
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: she means like one to two lines. She also has

880
00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: a really like horrible she's wearing a really horrible wig.

881
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,360
Speaker 1: And also her introduction is inconsequential to anything in the movie.

882
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: The only reason she's in that movie is to set

883
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,880
Speaker 1: up the next two movies. Yes, so you know the

884
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: first film ends with with Anastasia leaving Christian after she

885
00:49:27,800 --> 00:49:30,719
Speaker 1: has asked him to show her how bad he wants

886
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: to hurt her, and he like spanks her six times

887
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,760
Speaker 1: and he's like by um. So in the second movie

888
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: like she very they very quickly get back together, like

889
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 1: almost no time at all, um, but she's being stalked

890
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 1: by one of his old submissives, um who is like

891
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 1: who is still obsessed with him. You also find out

892
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:55,200
Speaker 1: in the second movie, um more about his tragic backstory.

893
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:58,440
Speaker 1: So he well in the first movie like I think

894
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: you will remember that he said that he is a

895
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: crack baby. Basically, oh my god, he had an abusive

896
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,319
Speaker 1: mother who died when he was little. And you find

897
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,720
Speaker 1: out in the second movie that all of the women

898
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 1: who he likes to dominate look like his mom. So

899
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,440
Speaker 1: so like he just has a really bad mobby issue.

900
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: Dakota Johnson does kind of look like a young mom. Um.

901
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: You also in the second movie meet the older woman

902
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:29,080
Speaker 1: who inducted him into b d S M what so

903
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 1: Kim Basinger plays Mrs Robinson who love that who you know,

904
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: like basically was a pedophile and um made Christian her

905
00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,439
Speaker 1: submissive when he was a teenager. And it's called Mrs

906
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 1: Robinson to call back to the graduate um um. So

907
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 1: in the second movie, Anastasia meets her and the wait

908
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:50,960
Speaker 1: in that relationship was he the submissive whoa okay okay?

909
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: And so Anastasia meets her and like hates her. Also,

910
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:56,840
Speaker 1: Christian asks Anastasia to marry him in the second movie

911
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: because it's Twilight, and I also think the second movie

912
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:06,680
Speaker 1: is when he gets into a helicopter crash what but

913
00:51:06,680 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: but survives um also um Anastasia has started working at

914
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:15,520
Speaker 1: a publishing house and her boss is super predatory and

915
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: wants to suck her and eventually gets fired because he

916
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 1: tries to assault her. Does Jamie Dornan like kill the

917
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,840
Speaker 1: boss or something? No, But it continues on into the

918
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 1: third movie because in the third movie you find out

919
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 1: that the boss was so Christian was in you know,

920
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,080
Speaker 1: like the was in the system, is like in foster

921
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 1: care and was adopted by his rich parents, the Grays,

922
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: And I guess it turns out that the boss was

923
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 1: like another possible kid they were going to adopt, and

924
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,600
Speaker 1: like feels that he should have gotten the life that

925
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 1: Christian got and so he is like stalking Anastasia and

926
00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: like trying to break into their home and then this

927
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 1: is why it's important to mention Rita Aura. In the

928
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,640
Speaker 1: third movie, Rita or gets kidnapped by the boss does not,

929
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:11,520
Speaker 1: and Dakota Johnson has to by the by the boss

930
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: um and then Dakota Johnson has to like navigate this

931
00:52:15,480 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 1: hostage crisis and that's a perfect role for Yeah, And

932
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 1: she like goes in, like she makes Christian think that

933
00:52:24,400 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: she's leaving him and goes in withdraws all this money

934
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,120
Speaker 1: from their account so that she because they've gotten married

935
00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 1: at this point, so she can save the sister. And

936
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: then like she's oh and she's also pregnant. She gets

937
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:39,279
Speaker 1: pregnant in the last movie, and she like kicks her

938
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,880
Speaker 1: in the stomach, I think, and she thinks she's going

939
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: to lose the baby. Also also very much like very

940
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: much like in Breaking Dawn, Christian when he finds out

941
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:52,760
Speaker 1: Anastasia is pregnant, is really against it, um like because

942
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 1: you know, in in Breaking Dawn, Twilight doesn't want Bella

943
00:52:56,440 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 1: to have the baby because he thinks it's going to

944
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,320
Speaker 1: kill her. Christian doesn't want Anna State should to have

945
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:05,160
Speaker 1: the baby because like he wants her to himself. But

946
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 1: then you know, like after she gets kicked during a

947
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:12,439
Speaker 1: hostage crisis. He's like, oh, I want the baby. Um,

948
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:15,200
Speaker 1: your recounting of the trilogy is honestly more interesting than

949
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: my entire experience of watching the film. Okay, but so

950
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: the best part of the well, no, there's like a

951
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 1: lot of great I would never says um. So the

952
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: end of the final movie a childlike glee and wonder

953
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,320
Speaker 1: on roses eyes. Right now. The end of the final

954
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 1: movie is, um, you know, like a Christian has kind

955
00:53:36,840 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: of like given up, you know, being a dom and

956
00:53:40,040 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: you know, they think they've settled into this like normal life.

957
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: And then when he comes home and um, Anastasia has

958
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:48,399
Speaker 1: like put the jenes that he always used to fuck

959
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,759
Speaker 1: her and out on the bed. What kind of genes

960
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:54,920
Speaker 1: they're just they're just they're just jeans, They're they're kind

961
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: of like a you know, they've got like a like

962
00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: like artful fading, you know, I would say their bootcut.

963
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: And and then she and then she's waiting in the

964
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: Red Room of Pain, which is what his playroom is called,

965
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 1: like canonically is called the Red Room of Pain. Hate that,

966
00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,279
Speaker 1: and she has now like decided she wants them to

967
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:18,880
Speaker 1: be kinky again. And he says to her that she's

968
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: topping from the bottom, and that's how the movie, that's

969
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: how the franchise ends. No, it does. Yeah, you're kidding. Honestly,

970
00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:30,800
Speaker 1: the thing one of my biggest well, okay, something that

971
00:54:30,840 --> 00:54:32,560
Speaker 1: stuck out to me. I think it's so funny that

972
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 1: she starts to work at a publishing house. When we

973
00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 1: were watching the movie. You pointed out to me that

974
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: Bella and Anna share the same three personality traits that

975
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:44,760
Speaker 1: they have, which is they are burnett, they are awkward,

976
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 1: and they like to read clumsy clumsy right now different, different, different,

977
00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:52,880
Speaker 1: so they both play it. The main the main difference

978
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:57,280
Speaker 1: is that Anastasia has bangs, right, That's that's actually huge huge.

979
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,839
Speaker 1: She also is like very performatively not into the fact

980
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 1: that her boyfriend is a billionaire, and every time he

981
00:55:04,520 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: tries to buy her something, she's like, oh, no, I

982
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 1: don't want this, which is like, are you kidding? If

983
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: I if I felt if a billionaire fell into my

984
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 1: lap in a workplace environment, the way I would ride

985
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 1: and milk that man for all of his works, literally

986
00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: literally ride and milk. He bought he buys her car

987
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: in the first film, and she gets like, oh, my god,

988
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 1: that was so weird too much. I can't take it.

989
00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:32,239
Speaker 1: You have to take it back. I would text him

990
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: and be like, actually, um, I asked for a jeep,

991
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 1: I asked for a tesla. Things Also, like a car

992
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:40,399
Speaker 1: is not the kind of thing you can send back. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

993
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: I guess not. But if you're really wealthy, I'm sure

994
00:55:42,680 --> 00:55:44,680
Speaker 1: they are really easy ways to kind of exchange it.

995
00:55:44,719 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: You can kind of do whatever you want when you're wealthy, apparently,

996
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 1: but honestly, his him being a billionaire, obviously, it's it's

997
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: very good for fan fiction, it's very sensationalistic. Um, and

998
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:56,840
Speaker 1: it's good for the movies because they can do things

999
00:55:56,880 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: like go like fly in a helicopter, like you know,

1000
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:04,360
Speaker 1: he can like come surprise her on her trip with

1001
00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:07,120
Speaker 1: her mom. Right, oh yeah, I remember, yeah yeah, And

1002
00:56:07,440 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 1: I understand narratively what it does. But I think that

1003
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 1: it just, especially now, makes him such an ugly character.

1004
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: I think again, when I when I said, like, I

1005
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 1: hate that the engine of the film is around, like

1006
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:24,279
Speaker 1: you know, the fact that he's really great at sex,

1007
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: It's like I wish he had at least one more

1008
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:32,200
Speaker 1: redeeming quality, like he I could actually buy into the

1009
00:56:32,239 --> 00:56:35,720
Speaker 1: fact that she's only here because he's amazing in the sack.

1010
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:39,279
Speaker 1: If the sex scenes were actually good, Um, but they

1011
00:56:39,280 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 1: were just kind of you know, very sensual and like

1012
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: they sell it. I think it's performed well, but the

1013
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:47,399
Speaker 1: sex is like so lukewarm. I know, honestly, the movies

1014
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:49,160
Speaker 1: would be so much more interesting to me if she

1015
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 1: was like a gold digger and just wanted him for

1016
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:55,000
Speaker 1: his money, Like, then I could understand where she's coming from.

1017
00:56:54,760 --> 00:56:57,840
Speaker 1: I would get her motivation. And I even as I

1018
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,000
Speaker 1: say this, it sounds like so ester, but there has

1019
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 1: you trying to like woke ify the movie. But no, no,

1020
00:57:02,520 --> 00:57:04,439
Speaker 1: but she has to be set up to be like

1021
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:08,040
Speaker 1: not only um, you know, physically pure, but morally pure.

1022
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 1: She has to she has to not want the money

1023
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:13,960
Speaker 1: for him to be attractive to her the same way

1024
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: that like, even though he talks all this game about

1025
00:57:16,600 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 1: wanting her to be sexually experienced, when he finds out

1026
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: that she's a virgin, he like loses his mind and

1027
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 1: thinks it's the hottest thing ever, right, And which is

1028
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,600
Speaker 1: I mean, which is so like which I don't understand

1029
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: it all? Like I don't understand virginity being attractive. Okay, wait,

1030
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 1: let's talk about that very quickly before we get into

1031
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: the sex scenes, because this is like a virgin um

1032
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: and you are listening are the virgins, And we have

1033
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 1: to say we on this podcast, like the construct of

1034
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:44,480
Speaker 1: virginity is like a concept that is like so archaic

1035
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:47,240
Speaker 1: and bizarre and weird and like puritanical. And I think

1036
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:51,920
Speaker 1: that Twilight and fifty Shades and things like them exemplify

1037
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:54,919
Speaker 1: what we as a culture kind of believe around what

1038
00:57:54,960 --> 00:57:57,600
Speaker 1: it means to have had or not have had sex.

1039
00:57:58,000 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 1: And I think coming from where I'm at, it's like,

1040
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: I like, growing up, there is just a myriad of

1041
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 1: things that you know, my family would think are like

1042
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: morally you know, wrong, But I could watch some things

1043
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:14,840
Speaker 1: on TV so long as they weren't sex, Like having

1044
00:58:14,880 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: sex before marriage was like v b all end all

1045
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,360
Speaker 1: of like things that you absolutely like that is the

1046
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:22,800
Speaker 1: worst possible thing you can do, and like, culturally we

1047
00:58:22,840 --> 00:58:25,280
Speaker 1: subscribe to it. And it's so funny that these like

1048
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:30,040
Speaker 1: women are so uncomplicated in their kind of puritanism that

1049
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,920
Speaker 1: they feel like there are a construct of like the

1050
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 1: male imagination, when in fact they're both written by women. Um,

1051
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:39,640
Speaker 1: which is kind of cookie. I think the reason I

1052
00:58:39,880 --> 00:58:42,200
Speaker 1: like kind of point that out is like to maybe

1053
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 1: get into the sex scenes of it all, Like this

1054
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:47,440
Speaker 1: movie and it's a relationship to like b D s

1055
00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:51,000
Speaker 1: M and kink is like virtually non exist. There is

1056
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:54,919
Speaker 1: no relationship this is at all, And like I'm not

1057
00:58:55,680 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: I'm not a kinky person. I think it's like it's

1058
00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: honestly just like two much work for me, Like kink

1059
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:05,040
Speaker 1: is a whole lifestyle that you have to like. Well,

1060
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 1: I mean, it depends on your level, but like when

1061
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:10,440
Speaker 1: you're as kinky as Christian Gray is being set up

1062
00:59:10,480 --> 00:59:12,800
Speaker 1: to be, like it's like a hobby, you have to

1063
00:59:12,840 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 1: invest a lot in it. I just don't have that

1064
00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 1: kind of energy or or attention span. And I am

1065
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,000
Speaker 1: also like maybe not a member I'm kinky, but I'm

1066
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: not like a member of like the b D s

1067
00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 1: M community that would speak. However, that being said, like

1068
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 1: even knowing very little about actual B D s M,

1069
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:31,760
Speaker 1: I am well aware that this is not any kind

1070
00:59:31,800 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: of real depiction of what rose. I think you're selling

1071
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 1: yourself short because even though as we said, we're not

1072
00:59:36,920 --> 00:59:39,000
Speaker 1: like in that community, you and I, you know, used

1073
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:40,919
Speaker 1: to be sex writers. We used to be like people

1074
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: that worked in LGBTQ media, Like we actually do know

1075
00:59:43,800 --> 00:59:45,600
Speaker 1: a lot on this topic, and a lot of our

1076
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:48,720
Speaker 1: friends are in this community. So I feel like, you know,

1077
00:59:49,280 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 1: I was able to really quickly see that there's just

1078
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: no absolutely no relation to what this woman's in like

1079
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: kind of fantasy of b d S M would be

1080
01:00:00,240 --> 01:00:02,680
Speaker 1: because it is so like it just feels like it's

1081
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: written by a fourth grader, yeah, when in fact it

1082
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,400
Speaker 1: was written by a fifth year old woman. And you know,

1083
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,400
Speaker 1: a lot of the backlash around this movie that wasn't

1084
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:14,400
Speaker 1: centered on like oh ha ha look at women being

1085
01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:17,520
Speaker 1: horny and how stupid that is, like ha ha um

1086
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:21,880
Speaker 1: was from people who are actually in into b d S.

1087
01:00:21,960 --> 01:00:25,840
Speaker 1: I'm saying this is not a realistic depiction of of

1088
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:43,520
Speaker 1: us at all. It's also a movie about contract negotiations,

1089
01:00:43,560 --> 01:00:45,960
Speaker 1: because like, that's the whole plot of the first movie,

1090
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 1: is him trying to get her to sign paperwork. It

1091
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:49,919
Speaker 1: is the best scene in the movie. It's a really

1092
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,640
Speaker 1: good scene with yes. So there is a scene in

1093
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:56,960
Speaker 1: which Anastasia has said that she wants to talk about

1094
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 1: the contract to become Christians submiths sibum, but she has

1095
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:05,360
Speaker 1: some notes on the contract itself, so she asked for

1096
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: a meeting at his At his office, she shows up

1097
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:11,640
Speaker 1: in this like very sexy dress and they have a

1098
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: meeting in a boardroom in which she tells him like

1099
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to do anal or vaginal fisting. She

1100
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:21,880
Speaker 1: goes to the contract line by line, which is honestly hot.

1101
01:01:21,920 --> 01:01:23,920
Speaker 1: It's a very amazing scene. But I thought it was

1102
01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 1: I was floored that she wouldn't do anal. I thought

1103
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,600
Speaker 1: that was so lame, Like come on, like that's another

1104
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:30,560
Speaker 1: It's like, come on, just like do anal, Like try

1105
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:34,000
Speaker 1: some blood play, like just you know, get into it.

1106
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 1: I've never done blood play, not not on purpose. One

1107
01:01:41,160 --> 01:01:43,240
Speaker 1: time I was having sex with someone and like a,

1108
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, we were a little too rough and

1109
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,680
Speaker 1: there was like a little cut on Like was it, oh,

1110
01:01:49,760 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: yeah it was. There was a cot on my dick,

1111
01:01:51,720 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 1: and after on your dick, it was like a very

1112
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,600
Speaker 1: small sliver it like it like her a little bit,

1113
01:01:57,600 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: but I didn't really notice. Is very small. And after

1114
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 1: we were like kind of done, his his stomach was

1115
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: like covered in blood. He's like, where did this blood

1116
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,080
Speaker 1: come from? Um? Anyways, No, I have never engaged in

1117
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: blood play. But I just like like the kind of

1118
01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:16,760
Speaker 1: key iterations of what the author slash filmmaker think is

1119
01:02:17,000 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 1: kank is essentially handcuffs, Uh, a whip, a writing crop.

1120
01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:26,640
Speaker 1: I okay, I love a writing so I used to

1121
01:02:26,880 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: one that's very Oh really, there's this, but it was

1122
01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:32,200
Speaker 1: like only really to like I used to like bring

1123
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:34,160
Speaker 1: it to parties when I was a club kid. There's

1124
01:02:34,200 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: this that's hot. That's a good look as well. Um,

1125
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:39,760
Speaker 1: I there's this Ermes writing crop that I've been eyeing forever.

1126
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 1: It's vintage. Um it's but it's like think it's like six.

1127
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 1: You don't need a writing crop. But anyways, um, a

1128
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:50,640
Speaker 1: writing crop, a whip, handcuffs. These are things that an

1129
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 1: ice cube he does ice play. Oh yeah, ice play.

1130
01:02:54,400 --> 01:02:57,000
Speaker 1: Like I'm not trying to be a total bitch about it,

1131
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:59,840
Speaker 1: but it's just like you are. These are things that

1132
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:04,360
Speaker 1: at um, what you want is not necessarily is not cank.

1133
01:03:04,400 --> 01:03:06,280
Speaker 1: In B D s M culture, these are things that

1134
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 1: heterosexual couples in their forties and fifties introduced to their

1135
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: relationships to quote unquote spice things up. Like it's it's

1136
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,600
Speaker 1: not b D s M. It's just not it's like

1137
01:03:16,680 --> 01:03:20,680
Speaker 1: it's power play yeah yeah, which is yeah yeah. There

1138
01:03:20,680 --> 01:03:22,560
Speaker 1: are little things here and there where it's like this

1139
01:03:22,640 --> 01:03:24,720
Speaker 1: could be you know maybe, but it's just all of

1140
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:27,440
Speaker 1: it together just doesn't really work. And then I also

1141
01:03:27,480 --> 01:03:31,040
Speaker 1: feel like when like you know, the first kind of

1142
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:34,640
Speaker 1: books came out, the b D s M culture was

1143
01:03:34,680 --> 01:03:40,000
Speaker 1: also responding to what is a completely unhealthy, slash inaccurate

1144
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:43,360
Speaker 1: portrayal of consent in b D s M relationships because

1145
01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:48,320
Speaker 1: Anna's I think frequently saying she she frequently does things

1146
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,919
Speaker 1: for Christian that she's not comfortable with because she's either

1147
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:54,040
Speaker 1: too shy to speak her mind, or because she's afraid

1148
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: of losing Christian, or because you know, she just like it,

1149
01:03:57,520 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 1: just doesn't have enough agency, even though she has more

1150
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: as to see than Bella. But you know that's not

1151
01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:04,840
Speaker 1: how b D s M has And when you do

1152
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:08,880
Speaker 1: it the right way quote unquote has very you know,

1153
01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:13,440
Speaker 1: hard and fast kind of rules of communication and boundaries.

1154
01:04:13,440 --> 01:04:16,200
Speaker 1: And I have found that my friends in b D

1155
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:20,080
Speaker 1: s M culture have some of the healthiest relationships and

1156
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:24,680
Speaker 1: or sex lives because they have to over communicate where

1157
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,720
Speaker 1: those lines are where a lot of times people not

1158
01:04:27,800 --> 01:04:29,920
Speaker 1: in b D s M are too, just as the

1159
01:04:30,000 --> 01:04:33,560
Speaker 1: as portrayed in fifty Shades are kind of too scared

1160
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 1: to talk about those things because sex is embarrassing. Yeah,

1161
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 1: there's only there's only a passing mention of like safe words.

1162
01:04:40,200 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 1: They talk about it during the contract negotiation scene, like which,

1163
01:04:43,160 --> 01:04:46,840
Speaker 1: like do they even really do safe words anymore? Like

1164
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I I will say, like I have to

1165
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 1: admit that my only knowledge of b D s M

1166
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:59,400
Speaker 1: comes from fan fiction because because because it is a

1167
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:03,640
Speaker 1: true it is really a trope in in fan fiction.

1168
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:09,040
Speaker 1: And I have no idea if the understanding I have

1169
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:13,240
Speaker 1: of b D s M is even true to life,

1170
01:05:13,280 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: and that it is like being written about through the

1171
01:05:17,280 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: lens of someone's own experience, or if it's literally just

1172
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 1: like teenagers making up what they think b D s

1173
01:05:24,440 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: M is, or like women playing out their fantasies through

1174
01:05:28,400 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 1: these characters, Like I have no idea if it's if

1175
01:05:31,680 --> 01:05:34,920
Speaker 1: it's real or not, because it's not something that like

1176
01:05:35,000 --> 01:05:38,800
Speaker 1: I really engage in in my actual sexual life. So

1177
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 1: it could be that these ideas I have of what

1178
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:45,800
Speaker 1: b D s M actually are could be totally fake.

1179
01:05:46,040 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 1: I would be really curious to see what would happen

1180
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 1: if someone who was maybe more of a b D

1181
01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:55,800
Speaker 1: s M communities mind would do with this film, like

1182
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: would would like um anified Christian Gray on like Field

1183
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 1: or something like you know for the I don't know

1184
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:05,640
Speaker 1: if anybody if those listening, No, but there's like a

1185
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:09,640
Speaker 1: dating app that's like so busted. The UX is so bad.

1186
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:11,920
Speaker 1: Well there, I mean, we do have to we do

1187
01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 1: have to say there's a difference between kink and b

1188
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:17,320
Speaker 1: D s M. Yeah, obviously, yeah, yeah, right, kink is

1189
01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:22,440
Speaker 1: maybe a bigger umbrella over a bunch of like sub umbrellas.

1190
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:24,360
Speaker 1: And because I think they're there are plenty of people

1191
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 1: who are into kink who don't want b D s M.

1192
01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: I don't want, who don't want power or pain to

1193
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:36,000
Speaker 1: be part of that sexual experience. Right. Um, I was

1194
01:06:36,000 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: gonna ask, have you ever have you ever like looked

1195
01:06:38,640 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: at Field or tried fields or like I've been on

1196
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: Field before, Like I mean I haven't had an account,

1197
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 1: but I've been on the website. It's it is. I mean,

1198
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:51,040
Speaker 1: apparently it's supposed to be for people that are maybe kinky,

1199
01:06:51,080 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 1: but also maybe people that are polly and looking for

1200
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:57,000
Speaker 1: thirds question mark. The UX is so busted. And what

1201
01:06:57,200 --> 01:07:00,720
Speaker 1: is really weird about it is like pretty much everyone

1202
01:07:00,760 --> 01:07:02,880
Speaker 1: I've had too and I don't use the app, but

1203
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:05,680
Speaker 1: like when I did try it, everyone I swiped on

1204
01:07:05,760 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: was just looked like some normy heterosexual couple, and I

1205
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,120
Speaker 1: was like, where like the queer people on this? Well,

1206
01:07:12,160 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: that's very that's very fifty Shades because you know, like I,

1207
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,840
Speaker 1: it's it's funny to me that I like these movies

1208
01:07:19,880 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 1: so much when usually the reason that I am drawn

1209
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:26,800
Speaker 1: to something like this is because I can catch a

1210
01:07:26,840 --> 01:07:31,360
Speaker 1: whiff of queerness, whether it's through like subtext or like

1211
01:07:31,400 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 1: shipping some characters together or whatever. But Fifty Shades of

1212
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:40,120
Speaker 1: Gray is so aggressively hetero, like there's no there's truly

1213
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:42,840
Speaker 1: nothing gay about it except in the first movie when

1214
01:07:43,120 --> 01:07:46,960
Speaker 1: um Anastasia asked Christian if he's gay, right, and I

1215
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:49,880
Speaker 1: think there's for some reason, that's the last time homosexuality

1216
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,680
Speaker 1: is ever acknowledged. And slightly back to the Rita or

1217
01:07:52,720 --> 01:07:55,560
Speaker 1: of it all. You warned me about Rita Aura. You

1218
01:07:55,640 --> 01:07:58,280
Speaker 1: did not warn me about Marsha Gay Harden. But I

1219
01:07:58,360 --> 01:08:01,000
Speaker 1: wanted it to be a surprise, not just Marsha Guy Harden,

1220
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:04,479
Speaker 1: but Marsha gay harden also as a character that has

1221
01:08:05,160 --> 01:08:07,640
Speaker 1: literally no bearing on the plot of the first film

1222
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 1: at all, and I think has like one or two

1223
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 1: lines question mark she does. She is important later because,

1224
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:19,280
Speaker 1: as I said, um, christians old lover is friends with

1225
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:22,800
Speaker 1: his mom, and in the third movie, I believe she

1226
01:08:22,960 --> 01:08:26,120
Speaker 1: finds out about it and slaps her or like throws

1227
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 1: a drink in her face, slaps his mom. No, no, no no,

1228
01:08:28,720 --> 01:08:31,880
Speaker 1: Marcia gay harden Um throws a drink in combasing her

1229
01:08:32,000 --> 01:08:35,640
Speaker 1: face because she finds out that she like preyed on

1230
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: her son when he was a teenager. Oh my god.

1231
01:08:38,840 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 1: Oh that is actually something that must be noted, is

1232
01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:46,320
Speaker 1: that like, um, people that are into this are not

1233
01:08:46,600 --> 01:08:50,679
Speaker 1: um should are not a product of like childhood abuse,

1234
01:08:50,800 --> 01:08:53,640
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like there's a pathologizing of

1235
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:58,720
Speaker 1: Christian Gray. And yeah, Anastasia is very like preoccupied with

1236
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: what the question why are you like this? Exactly? And

1237
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:05,760
Speaker 1: I don't even want to like defend Christian Gray. He's

1238
01:09:05,800 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 1: a dick. He's a bad person, straight up, um, but

1239
01:09:09,479 --> 01:09:12,599
Speaker 1: like he It's It's true, like throughout the whole like

1240
01:09:12,680 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 1: kind of franchise, there is this kind of like hm hmm,

1241
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:18,719
Speaker 1: this guy is fucked up and like there's something wrong

1242
01:09:18,760 --> 01:09:22,040
Speaker 1: with him, and and Anesthesia thinks she can fix him. Yeah,

1243
01:09:22,080 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 1: it's just so, and she wants to know when they'll

1244
01:09:24,760 --> 01:09:28,160
Speaker 1: be able to have a normal relationship. Yeah, I don't know.

1245
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:30,880
Speaker 1: It's just it's just it's not it's it doesn't work.

1246
01:09:30,960 --> 01:09:33,599
Speaker 1: So I think it's safe to say you won't be

1247
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:38,679
Speaker 1: watching fifty Shades Darker and fifty Shades freed Man unless

1248
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 1: you tied me up and uh forced me to watch.

1249
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 1: I would only do it with your consent. Of course,

1250
01:09:45,240 --> 01:09:48,200
Speaker 1: I most likely will be going home and watching them

1251
01:09:48,240 --> 01:09:53,240
Speaker 1: immediately after we finished recording, because tis the season fifty Shades.

1252
01:09:53,320 --> 01:09:55,600
Speaker 1: They are Valentine's Day movies. They are what I like

1253
01:09:55,640 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 1: to watch this time of year, and I love them

1254
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 1: so much period, And I hold stay for that. Thank you.

1255
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:04,200
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you holding space for me. I really

1256
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:14,679
Speaker 1: appreciate you gaping for me. No, not that. We will

1257
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 1: be back next week with a discussion on Jagged Little

1258
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:19,600
Speaker 1: Pill the album slash. We kind of get into the

1259
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 1: musical a little bit too, with none other than Charlene Incarnet,

1260
01:10:23,280 --> 01:10:26,760
Speaker 1: renowned drag artist and friend of ours who has come

1261
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:30,000
Speaker 1: on a pod because she is honestly the expert on

1262
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:34,479
Speaker 1: all things Atlantis. Um, you can tell us what you

1263
01:10:34,520 --> 01:10:38,240
Speaker 1: like about this week's episode. Did you watch the Shades? Yeah?

1264
01:10:38,240 --> 01:10:41,720
Speaker 1: Are you? Are you? And Anna? Are you a Christian? Um?

1265
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 1: Are you a Rita? Are? Do you like fan fiction?

1266
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:46,599
Speaker 1: What fan fiction would you like to see adopted into

1267
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:49,920
Speaker 1: a major film franchise next? I identify as a Marsha

1268
01:10:50,000 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: of course. Um, you can tell us what to talk

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Speaker 1: about next, whether it's a show, a book, a cultural

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Speaker 1: phenomenon we want to hear from you. Call to confess

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Speaker 1: at three to three Pennance. That's read too three seven

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Speaker 1: two six to three. I'm your co host fran Toronto

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Speaker 1: and you can find me at Franz squish code wherever

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Speaker 1: you want on social media, I'm Rose Damn You. You

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Speaker 1: can find me at Rose Damn You on Instagram, Twitter

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Speaker 1: and TikTok. You can subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere

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Speaker 1: you listen and leave us a rating on Spotify or

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Speaker 1: review on Apple Podcasts. Like a Virgin is an I

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Speaker 1: Heart radio production. Our producer is inter with support from

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Speaker 1: Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Cranechitch and Nikki Etour Until

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Speaker 1: next week see you later. Virgins