WEBVTT - Trumpworld Gets a Red-Carpet Welcome in Brazil 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanebeck. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.600 plus technology, politics, economics, all furnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:19.600 analyst in more than one and twenty countries. You can 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.200 download Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:32.000 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. It is the Bloomberg Big 0:00:32.000 --> 0:00:33.960 Take Today. It's also the new issue of Business Week 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.760 magazine just out. It's about the Trump allies, such as 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:41.560 Steve Bannon, bonding with Brazil's president and f y Tim. 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:43.839 It's a playbook we've seen before. It certainly is. We've 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:47.120 seen it from President Trump himself. And joining us now 0:00:47.240 --> 0:00:49.640 is Joel Weberter, editor at Bloomberg Business Week. He joins 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:51.879 us on the remote from Brooklyn. Also joining us as 0:00:51.880 --> 0:00:55.520 Andrew Rosetti, Latin American reporter for Bloomberg News. He joins 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.480 us uh from Rio. Great to have both of you 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:01.800 on with us. Hey, Joel, I want to start with you, Um, 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:05.720 what is the playbook that Bolsonaro's following specifically from President 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:08.560 Trump right now? And it's important because hey, there's an 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.200 election coming up. There's an election coming up, and and 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:16.520 just like the Trump playbook, you just immediately cast as 0:01:16.560 --> 0:01:18.560 much doubt on that election as you can. And he's 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.479 already saying it's rigged, and you know, we've got months 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:25.680 to go until then. He's offered no actual evidence of that, um, 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:27.440 but it is a tactic and one that you could 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.360 probably draw a dotted line directly to Trump World, which, 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:36.680 as Andrew's story goes into, is actually had really interesting 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:41.640 links um with Brazil. Uh. So this is not like, 0:01:41.680 --> 0:01:45.400 you know, Trump and and Bolsonaro having lunch together anything 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:48.200 like that. It's more of like, all the machinery behind 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:52.720 Trump and all the machinery behind Billsonnaro, those gears are 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:57.760 are uh increasingly linked. So Andrew take us into how 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:02.080 the story came about. Well, Um, about two weeks ago 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.960 there was a brazil version of SEPAK was held in 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:11.480 the capital, Brazilia, and former Trunk spokesperson Jason Miller was 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:14.000 among the speaker speakers there and leaving Brazil, he was 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:18.480 actually detained in an airport um UH in links to 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:22.320 an ongoing federal inquiry and the spread of fake news 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:25.520 and misinformation here. He didn't speak to us, but from 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:28.680 there we started digging into these ties, and what we 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:33.040 found is that there's a long close relationship between Steve 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:38.919 Bannon and Um Bosonaro's oldest Bosono's son, Ed Warlow, a congressman, 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:42.799 and that relationship goes back to about eighteen and since then, 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:46.160 you know, we were told that they're um in pretty 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:49.680 constant contact and a lot of the tactics we're seeing 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:54.080 from uh Bothonaro father is you know, direct links to 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:56.840 what we've seen in the US, whether their motorcycle rallies 0:02:57.440 --> 0:03:02.200 modeled off for Sturgis UH and pouring doubt on voting machines. 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.440 These are all echoes of things we've seen in the US, 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:10.160 and what we're hearing is it comes right from Trump world. Well, 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:13.359 it's fascinating the things that yeah, please don't yeah no, 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:15.080 I was gonna say, like, one of the things that 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:16.920 I think is significant to the story, and this is 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:20.680 something that um Um we go into, is that you know, 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:26.880 the Trump world, um kind of exporting of that Trump is. Um, 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.800 it's it's kind of been something that's been attempted before, 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:34.040 right Andrew like and how did that pain out? Well? Yes, 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.480 Bandon has been trying this new UH in Europe with 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:42.000 his with his so called the movement some of these UH, 0:03:42.040 --> 0:03:45.720 you know, far right groups, anti immigration groups in Europe, 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:48.960 and it wasn't that successful. But what Bannon told us 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:53.720 is he sees UH Brazil's presidential election next year as 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.720 a precursor from US midterms. So he and many of 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:01.560 other you know, other such things likes Miller, they're really 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.520 throwing their weight behind this. They you know, they think 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:09.240 both to Naro going it's likely going against his likely opponent, 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:13.160 former president Lula. Um. You know, they see this really 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.960 hearkened and reverberate in the US, just like Brexit, in 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:20.040 their opinion, did in the update of Trump. So they're 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:24.000 really really if you launched banners and talk shows and podcasts, 0:04:24.000 --> 0:04:27.880 they're going on there just constantly, and they're from what 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.640 we hear is in touch with not just edward Son 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:34.279 but other advisors as well. When if I'm fascinating, the 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:36.120 more I feel like there's a lot of stories that 0:04:36.240 --> 0:04:38.360 been that have been in Business Week that just kind 0:04:38.360 --> 0:04:42.880 of remind us that Bannon still out there behind the scenes, 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:49.520 to be quite honest, Andrew, but he's still doing his thing. Yeah, definitely, definitely, 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:52.520 And it's you know, it's really interesting too, is that 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.760 you know, they've completely given Biden in one way is 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:58.320 the cold shoulder with all this. Well, even though that 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.800 Biden has gone uh fine is in the White House, 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.040 they continue to follow Trump and this has caused some 0:05:03.080 --> 0:05:07.160 a lot of tension um uh on the diplomatic fronts 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:10.520 um uh. President bolson was one of the last world 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:15.520 leaders to recognize uh Biden's victory over Trump, and since 0:05:15.560 --> 0:05:18.159 then we've what we've seen is that you know, very 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.200 cool relationship between the two countries and this you know, 0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.240 Brazil is one of the one of the world's, the 0:05:23.279 --> 0:05:26.039 largest country in South America and I believe that sixth world, 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:30.440 sixth most populous countries. So for the habit uh fixation 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.160 on Trump could cost Brazil during the town the line. Well, so, 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:35.279 so give us the context for everything that's happening domestically 0:05:35.320 --> 0:05:37.400 right now ahead of the election and how this plays 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:41.960 into the challenge that Bolsonaro is facing well, right now, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:46.520 President Bolsonos polombers at Aretta record low, inflation is rising, 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.479 hunger is spreading, um, you know, as the economy is reopening, 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:55.040 but at the very uneven UH rebound here UM. And 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:59.320 you know, Brazilians by and large are very very UM 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:04.480 frustrated it and upset by Um Bolsonaro really, you know, 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.480 doubting the coronavirus. He um had it himself. He's called 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:12.279 it a little flu last year. And right now, for 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:15.080 those who haven't been watching the headlines, he and his 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:17.080 and his cabinet were just in the US and his 0:06:18.120 --> 0:06:21.240 health minister just came down with COVID and UM, as 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.080 did his son on the trip of the U n 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:26.599 g A. So Brazilians are really frustrated with his antics 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.040 in a lot of ways. And what Um Bolsonaro has 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:32.320 done has gone full Trump. You know, he continues to 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:37.160 cast out on on COVID. He continues to call his critics, 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:40.400 you know, UM, of spreaders of fake news and and 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:42.920 saying that they're going to trying to hijack voting machines 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:47.039 and steal the election next year. What people fear is 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:49.599 that he's really channeling Trump. And you know, for a 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.840 January six, assault on the capitol situation, and he's really 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.960 laying the groundwork to um, you know, contest the election 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:03.920 of disregard the results next year if he uses speaking 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.080 of that election, UM, Lula basically one of the most 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:11.800 popular politicians in Brazilian history, and so what what are 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.440 the meeting of those two politicians? What? What? What? What 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.680 can we expect? What's that going to look like? Well, 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.440 right now, you know, poll very early polls are showing 0:07:20.480 --> 0:07:25.040 Lula cruising to a big, big victory right now. In Brazil, 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.960 there is usually a it's a two round. Uh, it's 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:32.400 a two round process. So if there's not a absolute 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:34.400 majority in the first, it would go to his second round. 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:37.040 But right now some polls suggest that Lula up by 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:40.480 as much as twenty points. And it's interesting this parallel 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:43.400 to the US, because Lula, you know, not only being 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.320 so popular, but he's really taken a step back and 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:48.800 say like Biden did in the US and saying, you know, 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.040 I am I'm taking the pandemic seriously. And this has 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:56.200 been the thorn in Bolsonaro's side, uh, for you know, 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:59.000 much of these recent months is that he can't shake 0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.520 the image that COVID has done um in his country, 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:04.440 and many people see that. As this fall, Brazil has 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:08.920 just passed six hundred thousand cortified desk and so people 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.920 are not willing to forget so soon. Well, it's fascinating 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:15.920 to make the comparison between the United States Trump and 0:08:15.960 --> 0:08:18.440 what's going on in Brazil. Andrew, thank you so much. 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:22.000 Andrew Rossotti, Uh, Latin American reporter on the phone in Rio, 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:24.600 along with Chill Weber, Editor Bloomberg business Week. Check out 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:26.679 the new issue of Business Week. It is the sooner 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.800 than you think issue on news stands, online at business 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:32.880 Week dot dot com and of course on the Bloomberg terminal. 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:43.800 This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:48.160 Messer and Bloomberg Quick Takes. Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.960 All right, what a week. When it comes to again 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.640 Andy Cohen drinking game. Every time we said China, we'd 0:08:55.679 --> 0:08:57.400 all be on the floor. Oh my god, we'll be 0:08:57.440 --> 0:09:00.680 on the floor. Uh. Definitely control holding the news flow 0:09:00.720 --> 0:09:03.840 in a big way when it comes to markets, many industry. 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:06.320 The latest we know, Tim on our radar once again, 0:09:06.320 --> 0:09:08.200 it's all about crypto. We talked about this with Katie 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.600 and let's talk about it. With a really great voice. 0:09:10.640 --> 0:09:13.520 Who joins us once again talking all things China. Guy 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:16.640 with so much experience in the country, Dexter tiff Roberts. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.520 He's Mansfield Fellow at the University of Montana, also Senior 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.600 Fellow at the Atlantic Council's AGIA Security Initiative, and our 0:09:22.640 --> 0:09:25.240 former colleague at Bloomberg Business Week. He was China bureau 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.240 chief for years and the author of the myth of 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:29.880 Chinese Capitalism, The Worker of the Factory and the Future 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:32.760 of the World, that came out in March of He 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:34.920 joins us once again on the phone from Montana. Dexter, 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.959 how do we make sense of this week? Well, as 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:41.960 you say, it's been it's been quite a week. Uh, 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:44.040 and we've seen it in the markets around the world. 0:09:44.520 --> 0:09:49.000 I think the bigger picture is China, and uh it's 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.640 you know, it's leader she Jane Preeny is continuing with 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:57.920 this effort to uh put politics back into the economy. 0:09:58.320 --> 0:10:02.679 There's a massive the Tory push throughout the tech sector, 0:10:03.559 --> 0:10:07.880 the cryptocurrency, the latest ban on cryptocurrency. It seems like 0:10:07.880 --> 0:10:11.240 they've been numerous announcements over the last couple of years 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.920 from China, where they've banned it and banned it again. 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:18.640 Is also saying, you know, this industry crypto, which fluants 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.240 its freedom from regulation, has no place in China. And 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:25.080 then of course we have ever Grand And that's everything 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.480 about trying to deleverage the economy. But I think at 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.800 the same time also send a message to the Chinese 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:37.000 people that uh, the excessive wealth uh in some cases 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:40.640 achieved through questionable means, uh, which I think is is 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.000 rife throughout the real estate sector is no longer tolerated. 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:49.360 So I wonder if you, um, we're on the ground 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.040 in China right now, over in Asia and you were, 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.320 you know, putting your team and you're saying, Okay, here's 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:56.839 the stories I want to tell, or we need to 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.160 be telling when it comes to China, when it comes 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:02.319 to ever Grand, and what what what? What are the 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:04.960 questions that we need to be asking to be really smart, 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:08.839 especially as investors. Former US Secretary of the Treasury Larry 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:12.640 Summers telling our David Weston earlier, you know that people 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:14.600 should be on guard here. I don't think any of 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.520 us have full transparency of what is going on in China. 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.200 And that's the worry. So what are the questions, what 0:11:20.280 --> 0:11:21.840 are the things that we need to be probing to 0:11:21.880 --> 0:11:25.960 really understand stuff? Well, I think in terms of looking 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:30.360 at future targets from the Chinese government in different industries 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.240 and businesses, anything that really touches on the livelihood of 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:39.520 the Chinese people. Uh, they went after private education. Um, 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:43.240 they've they've gone after the big tech platforms and now 0:11:43.360 --> 0:11:46.640 now real estate as well. All these things really matter 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:50.439 to the Chinese people. So there we've heard about again 0:11:50.480 --> 0:11:54.840 and again about this new common Prosperity campaign. This is 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:59.640 about trying to reduce wealth inequality and uh. And it's 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.880 the same time have a private sector that is much 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.000 more under the under the thumb of the government and 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.760 the Communist Party. So I think an investor needs to 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.560 look at what might comes next, what might come next? 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.880 What what matters to the Chinese people? Um? Well, what 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:17.360 does in your view? Because they've covered a lot. Yeah, Well, 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.640 I think obviously private health care, we've already seen signs 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:24.760 of that. That's another big one. Um and UM I 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:27.280 think in terms of you know, we'll see more on Uh. 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.120 The other part of the coin is anywhere where you 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:34.040 see real extremes of wealth. You see business people making 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.400 a lot of money, perhaps in industries that are destabilizing 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.480 to the economy, like like real estate, which has built 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:43.160 up so much leverage. Those are all going to be 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.319 targets going forward. I've asked you this before, Tiff, but 0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.240 I want to ask you again, given that it's been 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.360 a couple of months, what's the end game for Hijin Ping. 0:12:53.679 --> 0:12:56.800 I think that Jingping has made it abundantly clear over 0:12:56.840 --> 0:13:00.800 the last six months that he's actually willing to Uh. 0:13:01.280 --> 0:13:03.560 First of all, he wants politics and control. He wants 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:07.160 the politics in command economy. Uh. He he wants he 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:10.400 sees the private sector as continuing to be important in 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:13.720 creating jobs and vibrancy and innovation. But he wants it 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.120 all under the thumb of the party and the government. 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:20.400 So I think the belief is that amongst the top 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.439 leadership is that they can actually continue to carry out 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.360 these crackdowns, uh, pull some of the excesses out of 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.400 the economy, like the excess of leverage, get rid of 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:31.719 some of the real extremes of wealth, and they can 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:34.240 continue to grow. I'm not at all sure that they 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.720 can pull that off. So, so he wants capitalism but 0:13:36.760 --> 0:13:38.960 not too much capitalism. And you think it's fair to 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.560 say that he thinks that some of these businesses and 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.880 these people involved with these businesses became just simply too powerful. 0:13:46.120 --> 0:13:49.880 I think that's exactly what he thinks, um. And he's 0:13:49.920 --> 0:13:53.280 planning to again have a private sector that is much 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:55.880 more answerable to the party. He wants to see, uh, 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:57.800 you know, lesser extremes of wealth and he's going to 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:01.040 try to pull that off, and that means we're gonna 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.240 see more crackdowns going forward. Hey, tif though, how do 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:08.920 you reconcile what president is doing right now and wanting 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:13.840 more industries under the thumb of the Chinese government with 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:19.600 also his ambitious agenda being leaders on you know in 0:14:19.640 --> 0:14:22.640 the high tech world, really building out industries no longer 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.000 being you know, the manufacturer to the world, which they 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:28.680 are increasingly not. But how how can they do that? 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.760 Can they do both? Well? I think there's actually a 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.680 real level of hubrists we're seeing and the sense that 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:39.240 they can do both. They can become more self reliant, 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:42.040 they can close off their economy to some degree to 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.120 the rest of the world. You know, they've basically blocked 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.400 all traveling and out of China and probably will continue 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:49.680 until at least late next year when they have a 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.640 party Congress um and maybe a bit more difficult for 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:56.360 you know, companies and institutions around the world to work 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:59.560 with China. I think they have this idea that they 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.200 can it. They can go it alone. They've reached a 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:05.160 level of power and an economy of a certain size. 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:07.800 I'm afraid that again, Hubris here, I don't think that 0:15:07.880 --> 0:15:10.880 it really is doable. Just in the last thirty seconds 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:12.760 that we have. What are you watching for next? What's 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:16.680 the next shoe to drop? Again? I I just mentioned 0:15:16.680 --> 0:15:20.440 the healthcare industry, for the private healthcare industry. China refers 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:24.560 to three big mountains that contribute to inequality in the 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:28.360 wealth gap, housing, education, and healthcare. They've hit housing, They've 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.960 hit education. I think healthcare is up map. It's really 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:36.240 fascinating because in many ways that's the same three here 0:15:36.280 --> 0:15:39.120 in the United States, and the US is also looking 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.680 to tackle it, but obviously, uh by different mode, not 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:46.440 to mention, you know, quote unquote raining technology exactly exactly. 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.880 So it's interesting to see the different um ways of 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:52.720 doing so. Tif, you are the best, Tif roberts uh 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.880 he is man Mansfield Fellow at the University of Montana, 0:15:55.920 --> 0:15:58.680 author former Bloomberg BusinessWeek trying to be or achieved. His 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:02.400 book The Myths of Chinese Capitalism, really plays into so 0:16:02.480 --> 0:16:04.360 much of what we're seeing right now. Well, the pandemic 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:06.440 has up ended tim We know how we work, where 0:16:06.480 --> 0:16:08.800 we work, how bosses and workers think about the process. 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.840 Sometimes process was overwhelming. Boundaries between work and life are unclear. 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:16.600 Sometimes the ability to just plow through without office distractions, 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.240 not having to commute and so on created some clarity. 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:21.440 So I'm guess that our next guest us something to say. 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:25.080 It's Juliette Fund, founder and CEO of the Juliette Fund Group, 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.560 and she joined us on the phone from Los Angeles. 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.520 Julian's new Juliet's new book is called A Minute to Think, 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:35.720 Reclaim creativity, conquer business, and do your best work. Juliet, 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.160 thanks so much for joining us on the show. What 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.040 was it about the pandemic and everything that we've been 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:44.760 through collectively? Um, and how it's contributed that that that 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:47.880 that prompted you to write this? Well, I wrote the 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:52.480 book before the pandemic, but the conditions of the pandemic 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.000 have only amplified things that have been around and work 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:58.800 for for decades. I've been watching people for many, many 0:16:58.920 --> 0:17:04.119 years sit in tolerated misery of the day, you know, 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:07.760 just trying to get through an earnest day's work and 0:17:07.840 --> 0:17:11.119 finding that it becomes the hardest part of their day. 0:17:11.720 --> 0:17:16.520 Unnecessary work, emails, meeting deck reports, a lack of connecting 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.119 with meaning. These things have been around for a while 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:23.520 before the pandemic, but the pandemic has certainly amplified them well. 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.119 And it's interesting, UM, I was going to ask you 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:29.680 too about your company and what you were doing pre pandemic. 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.920 TuS litle bit more about UM your consultancy and training firm, 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.840 and again going back to kind of pre pandemic and 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:39.680 maybe how you're thinking has changed a little bit. Sure, 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:41.919 we've been doing this work for about ten years, and 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.000 I did it ten years before that as a speaker 0:17:44.000 --> 0:17:47.520 and consultant independently. We go into companies, we help them 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.000 to reduce wasteful work and basically find more time to 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:56.080 be thoughtful, strategic, connected. And the pandemic has been such 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.800 a fascinating amplification of the worst of work and so 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:03.520 certain ways, but also has given us a little tiny 0:18:03.640 --> 0:18:07.639 taste of what's possible with giving people more liberty, that 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:11.199 when they do have flexibility and liberty, that there are 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:13.840 ways that work can feel different in ways that we 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:17.000 haven't touched in a really, really long time. It's a 0:18:17.240 --> 0:18:19.919 it's a preview of what's possible if we use this 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:23.800 window of opportunity to redesign the way works feel well. 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:25.720 I want to follow up on that, Tim, and I've 0:18:25.760 --> 0:18:28.440 had a lot of conversations with heads of companies, well 0:18:28.480 --> 0:18:32.040 known companies, publicly traded companies, um. In fact, we're just 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:36.000 talking about Franco Suitis of Cisco Systems yesterday, who is 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:40.000 an executive EP chief People Policy, UH and Purpose officer, 0:18:40.200 --> 0:18:44.120 and talking about hybrid work in particular. Do you think 0:18:44.600 --> 0:18:50.280 that seeing how productive people can be and maybe happier 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.639 in terms of having some flexibility and how they work, 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.679 that this idea of kind of being more liberal and 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:59.600 opening up how we think about work work, does it 0:18:59.720 --> 0:19:02.280 stay you with us? Because there's a lot of executives 0:19:02.720 --> 0:19:05.600 who've got some pretty expensive office space who say I 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:08.840 want you back in the office. Sure that we have 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.680 to look at both populations of the pandemic evenly and fairly. 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.280 There has been a population that's tasted a little bit 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:18.199 of liberty, and they're starting to realize that work can 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.600 feel different with the freedom that they've been given. But 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.000 there's also an enormous percentage of people for whom work 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:27.520 has gotten worse in the sense that they've lost any 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.520 semblance of boundaries that they had before. They used to 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.480 have a little bit of separation maybe between work and life, 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:36.840 and now it's just shuffled like a deck of cards, 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.399 and there is no separation. They don't know how to 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.920 turn on or off. The zoom maholic zoom off on 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.840 all day long has literally expanded to seven and to 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:48.400 seven pm. So it's unsustainable and we have to dress 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:50.359 both sides of that. Okay, Here in New York on 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:52.520 Wall Street, it's you know, it's just twenty minutes before 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.320 five roughly. What's one tip you can give us to 0:19:55.320 --> 0:19:57.480 to help us go into the weekend and and sort 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:03.320 of enter the and stay unplugged. Sure, entering the weekend, 0:20:03.640 --> 0:20:05.919 we want to, first of all, have a way to 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.600 close the door on work. It's very very difficult. One 0:20:09.720 --> 0:20:12.280 technique is to take all of your work related things 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.360 and make them in put them inside some sort of 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:19.320 physical compartment of desk a drawer addresser so that you 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:23.080 can't visually keep seeing them through the time when you're 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:27.560 supposed to be disconnected. Another incredibly simple technique, although it 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:31.160 sounds a little lighthearted, is if you just say out 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:33.480 loud in front of the people that you love. I 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:36.720 call this trapping yourself and a promise. You say, well, 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.720 I'm done for the weekend. No more work for me 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.200 this weekend. And once you say out loud that you've 0:20:43.240 --> 0:20:45.520 made a commitment that there will be a boundary between 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:49.040 work and leisure, it's really hard to go sneak that 0:20:49.119 --> 0:20:51.520 sip of the laptop. You can do this even alone. 0:20:51.560 --> 0:20:53.639 If you live alone, you can have a boundary buddy 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:56.879 and just text each other and say work is over, um, 0:20:56.880 --> 0:20:58.639 really wonderful, hope we can get you back in the 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.120 future because some really great tip. And you're someone who 0:21:01.119 --> 0:21:06.040 works with Spotify, Nike, Costco, Cisco, the Food, Cisco, ESPN, 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:09.399 so many companies. Juliet Fund founder and CEO of Julie 0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:12.080 Juliet Fund Group. Her book is a minute to think, 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:16.240 reclaim creativity, conquer business, business and do your best work. 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:23.879 Rolo Macro Journal. Yeah but you let me drive no, no, 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:29.720 no's go dru home please, I'll do the right drivels me. 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:45.480 I want to drive, just drive. The questions drying. This 0:21:46.000 --> 0:21:48.960 is the drive to the globe. Give me thanks, We'll 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.920 drive us to dawn. On Bloomberg Radio, all right, you 0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:55.359 just got about ten minutes left in today's trading session. 0:21:55.400 --> 0:21:58.199 We are near our highs of the session. On this Friday, 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:00.240 what was been quite a week. Timmy and I were 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:02.600 reaving some fun about like it's like Monday never happened. 0:22:02.880 --> 0:22:04.919 It's pretty wild to see that. I mean, if we 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.800 take a look at where stocks are for the week, 0:22:07.840 --> 0:22:10.560 we're looking like we're gonna end how the higher by 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:12.199 six cents of one percent? A little bit of a 0:22:12.200 --> 0:22:14.159 game there. All right, let's get to it. Time to 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:17.040 the dot, Time for the drive to the clothes. Chad 0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:20.840 Garcia is with s VP, Lead portfolio manager at Maria Funds, 0:22:20.880 --> 0:22:24.160 co portfolio manager of the Ave Maria Growth Fund. That fund, 0:22:24.160 --> 0:22:26.520 by the way up year today, putting it in the 0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:30.080 fort compared with other funds in the category. That's according 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:33.280 to our data up the past one year. He joins 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:35.320 us on the phone from Florida. Chat, how are you. 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:38.280 I'm doing great, thanks for having me on. Hey, this 0:22:38.320 --> 0:22:42.560 market environment, how would you describe it? Well, this week 0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:48.199