WEBVTT - True Crime: The Phantom of Heilbronn 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:04.240 Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.360 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:15.920 and there's Shock and Dave c is here with us 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:21.400 and this is stuff you should know. That's right. Before 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.040 we get started, though, we want to quickly plug our 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:25.680 friends at co ED because we're trying to get the 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.880 stuff you should know Army and their donation pool up 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:33.400 to one million dollars. 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That's right. 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:16.600 So what what a dishes this Chuck the Spooky Phantom 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:21.360 Edian that's what Dave thought. But now and you can 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:25.040 understand how you would get that impression from the title, 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:31.240 But the phantom of Hyle Braun is it Hyle You 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:35.640 do the second syllable okay for an e I okay, 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:40.080 so hile Braun sorry double end at the end, and 0:01:40.240 --> 0:01:44.200 the phantom of heil Braun would prove to be essentially 0:01:44.440 --> 0:01:49.520 what amounts to a criminal mastermind as far as we're concerned, Um, 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:52.200 for being able to evade the police for so long 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:56.040 despite being so sought after. I mean like they made 0:01:56.200 --> 0:02:01.320 international news. Um, this case. It it was that vexan. 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:06.240 So we love cold cases, we love true crime cases, 0:02:06.280 --> 0:02:10.280 and this one is like really great, Yes, so big 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:12.399 thanks to Olivia for helping us out with this one. 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:16.280 Uh and she very stuteley starts with a brief overview 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:20.240 of DNA forensics, which we covered a lot of times, 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:24.120 but um, just as a reminder, this started out DNA 0:02:24.720 --> 0:02:28.720 forensics and collection and using it for criminal cases in 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:32.359 the nineteen eighties in the UK. UH. Notably, I think 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:35.239 the first case was the exoneration of a seventeen year 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:39.360 old UH suspect in a rape and murder case of 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:43.080 two girls. UM. Back then before they had this is 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:46.840 like pre DNA database. UM. Their idea, which you know 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.400 worked pretty well in this case, was to basically do 0:02:49.480 --> 0:02:53.400 a big genetic sweep and ask for five thousand local 0:02:53.440 --> 0:02:57.200 men to give up DNA samples of blood or saliva. Uh. 0:02:57.240 --> 0:02:59.840 And there was a local baker there named Colin Pitchfork 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.200 told his friend Lu said like, hey, mate, would you 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:06.200 mind donating your blood for me and his friend. I 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:08.079 guess the word got around like hey, that's a weird 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:11.240 thing to do. Uh. Someone overhears this in a pub 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.720 and all of a sudden, Colin Pitchfork is in fact 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:20.600 arrested and another gentleman is exonerated. Yeah, through the use 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.440 of DNA. And it was the guy who actually invented 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.840 using DNA for forensics, Alec J. Jeffries, who became knighted, 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:30.160 and he discovered it by accident. He was trying to 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:35.920 find how um heritable diseases passed two families and realized like, 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.880 oh wait, I can actually identify every single participant in 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:42.520 this study because of their DNA and a light bulb 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:45.480 went off and like that was that was an amazing 0:03:45.600 --> 0:03:50.200 first case. Like he exonerated somebody who was innocent and 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:53.000 caught the bad guy and the murdering rape of two girls. 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.800 Like it doesn't you can't possibly have a better first 0:03:56.840 --> 0:04:00.200 outing than that. Um And and so as it was old, 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.840 DNA profiling took off like a rocket, particularly in the 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:05.960 UK at first, but then it spread very quickly to 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:10.320 other European countries and the US, And by nine the 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:13.480 FBI said, hey, all of you UM police departments in 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:17.200 the United States, you start sending your your samples into US, 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.320 will create profiles, will run him against the database, and 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.200 we will catch your bad guy for you. So it 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:27.120 became much more standardized within three years of that first case. Yeah, 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:29.440 and all the private companies who were doing that before 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.520 the FBI stepped up said thanks a lot. Yeah, now 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:35.640 we're bankrupt, thanks a lot of FBI. We We had 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:38.600 a pretty good racket going. But it did needed to 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.560 be codified in the database became a very big part 0:04:41.600 --> 0:04:44.360 of it because, like I said, pre database they were 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:46.719 doing and as you'll see in some of these crimes, 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:50.320 even with the phantom things like genetic sweeps and genetic 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.239 drag nets and things like that. Yeah, there was another 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.479 guy who enters the picture in ninety seven he was 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:59.279 from Austria's name was Roland van or Shot. I think 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:02.279 I got it UM and he said, hey, you know 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:05.480 how we only thought we could get DNA from blood, 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:10.120 saliva or semen. It turns out we leave DNA everywhere. 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:14.120 Everything we touch has little bits of UM d NA 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:18.360 left behind. And here's a way to extract that and 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:22.000 and UM identify it and profile it basically UM. And 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:24.880 so now all of a sudden DNA goes from this 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:28.120 is a really useful tool. Kind of two. We can 0:05:28.240 --> 0:05:32.240 use this and basically every case we come across somebody 0:05:32.279 --> 0:05:36.040 like UM uh steals a can of coke out of 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:40.200 the Honor System coke machine, you could you could like 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.039 profile their DNA and probably catch them from that. It 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:46.680 was like it opened it up that much. It's you're dead. Yeah, 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:50.520 it stopped. It decreased UM Honor System co mashing crime 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:56.520 by like five almost overnight. Uh. Those genetic dragnets were 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:58.640 happening more and more, and then they eventually built up 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.560 the database such where they were less and less necessary, 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:06.120 especially when UM country started sharing data across their borders, 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:08.520 which uh here in the United States we do that 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:12.839 in an interstate fashion. Uh. And maybe with Canada and Mexico. 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:14.880 I'm not really sure actually, but if they're lucky, if 0:06:14.920 --> 0:06:19.000 we're feeling like that. Uh. And but in Europe UM, 0:06:19.040 --> 0:06:23.400 this started happening about two thousand five, when Germany, Austria, Belgium, France, 0:06:23.640 --> 0:06:26.680 Luxembourg in the Netherlands said uh, and Spain said, hey, 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.839 let's sign this treaty UM that means we can share 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:33.960 our our DNA findings with each other UM. Two thousand seven. 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:36.920 That was basically all of Europe, all the EU got 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.279 on board. UH. And the reason we're talking about the 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:43.880 EU s because all of these uh, myriad crimes that 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:52.080 this phantom purportedly committed were in Europe, and mostly around Germany. Yes, 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:56.960 and because these crimes were committed after Roland von uer 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:00.880 shots um discovery that you can get DNA samples from 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.640 just about anything UM, the European police had become well 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:09.920 versed in lifting DNA from crime scenes, and so they 0:07:09.920 --> 0:07:12.560 were able to track the who would come to be 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:16.520 called the Phantom of heilbron Um through the DNA left 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.680 behind at these crime scenes. And apparently they were already 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.360 tracking this person for a few years in a much 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:28.320 more isolated way. But the whole thing blew up and 0:07:28.440 --> 0:07:32.880 the nickname that the Phantom of Heilbron All happened in 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:36.200 I think April of two thousand seven, when a twenty 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:40.040 two year old policewoman named Michelle kay Sweater was murdered 0:07:40.200 --> 0:07:43.760 while she was taking a lunch break. Can I correct 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.920 your pronunciation? Yeah, I believe that would be Kaisa Vetta. 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:53.400 That's much better when I say kay Sweater. Yeah, but 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:58.440 that's okay. She was was murdered in cold blood. She 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.720 was twenty years old on lunch break with a cop 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:05.120 named Martin Arnold, and they were sitting in their patrol 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:08.880 car and hal Bron and a couple of people jumped 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.880 in the back seat shot them from behind. They stole 0:08:11.920 --> 0:08:16.000 their handcuffs, they stole their guns. Uh, and Kaisa Vetter died. 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:20.280 Martin was only twenty five and was in a coma 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:24.680 for weeks. And if you read any interviews with Martin Arnold, 0:08:24.680 --> 0:08:27.520 that just like you know, completely wrecked this guy's life. Uh. 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:29.760 He lost memory from the point where he parked the 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:33.000 car to eat and literally doesn't remember anything else except 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.400 waking up in the hospital. So all that to say, 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.280 there was no identification of anything, right, yeah, I saw 0:08:39.320 --> 0:08:41.080 that he couldn't. I can imagine if you're in a 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:44.920 coma until they dislodge a bullet from your brain, it's 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:47.000 a pretty good bet you're not going to be able 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.800 to remember anything. Is he able to remember stuff? Now? 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.120 Do you know? Like from that point on? Yeah, I 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.000 mean I think he recovered. But um, it was just, 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:57.040 you know, one of these sad stories of this young 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.720 guy who was always wanted to be a cop early 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:03.400 on on the job and you know, just gets And 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.480 this was not a it's not like this crime happens 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:09.040 a lot in the US, but it was a very huge, 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.120 big deal crime and it like rocked Germany. It was 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:15.480 such a big scary thing. Yeah, because Heilbron is not 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:18.960 a huge, bustling metropolis. It's a small town. And the 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.480 fact that the murder of a cop in the small 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:26.520 town in Germany caught the entire country's attention and outrage, 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:28.520 you know, it does go to show you like, that's 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.080 a really big deal in Germany, or it was at 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.360 least in two thousand and seven. And also I think 0:09:33.440 --> 0:09:36.760 the manner of the murder to where um, the perpetrator 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.520 of the criminals, um got to drop on them so 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:43.080 quickly that the cops weren't even able to like, um, 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.839 get their weapons out, like they just completely by surprise. 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:51.000 So it was an enormous deal. And it turned out 0:09:51.280 --> 0:09:54.800 that they were able to find some genetic material UM 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:56.960 on the rear seat of the car and on the 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.520 center console of the car, and they found on something 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:05.439 really really surprising that UM. The only genetic material that 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:09.200 they could work up a profile from belonged to a woman. 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:12.719 And that did not fit the idea of Germans at 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:14.920 the time of somebody who had jump in the backseat 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:18.280 of a cop car and murder a pair of cops, 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.719 or murder one and try to murder the other one. Yeah, 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:27.959 it was. It was shocking, but it was confusing at 0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:30.000 the same time, like no one understood sort of the 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:34.600 findings that happened. UM. A few months later, Uh, they 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:36.839 are working with the DNA and they said, hey, wait 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:42.320 a minute, these samples match some other crimes that are happening. UM. 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:46.400 Two other murders in particular. The first was from it's 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.960 a cold case. Uh, this woman, I'm gonna say it's 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.600 les a lot Schlanger. I was sixty two years old 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:57.800 again in Germany and it's about a hundred miles west 0:10:57.840 --> 0:11:00.800 of Heilbroun. And on mate any third of that year, 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.400 I had put some cakes in the oven. Her neighbor 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.360 came by to have t knocked at the door. No 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.760 one answered, and it turned out that she had been Schlinger, 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.320 had been strangled with the wire from a flower bouquet 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:17.840 in her sitting room. Cops investigated a bunch of witnesses. 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:20.760 No one saw anything, no one heard anything. But we 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:22.480 have this d N A on the rim of a 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:26.240 teacup that matched the DNA from the killer of Michelle 0:11:26.320 --> 0:11:31.280 kaisaveta yeah, from cold case? Right, that's right. And then 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:34.680 there was another two thousand one cold case in the 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:39.000 murder of a man named Joseph Wallzenbach. How's that. That's great. 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:41.959 He was an antique stealer, and he too was murdered 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:45.960 with a weapon of opportunity, some garden twine that happened 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:49.760 to be handy. Um strangled, So both both lise a 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:54.040 lot and Um Joseph were strangled Um and he was 0:11:54.080 --> 0:11:56.280 strangled in his shop, and they they found d NA 0:11:56.440 --> 0:11:58.520 on his body, a few items in the shop, and 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:01.480 then the back of a close which is so creepy 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.960 that they assumed that, um, the phantom who would be 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:07.559 come to be known as the Phantom, put the clothes 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:11.400 sign out and left. Um, that's just cold, you know 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:14.880 for sure, that kind of calculation. Yeah, that's like a 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:18.160 movie shot right there. Yeah, it's just scary. So now 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:23.559 we have three murders, um, and an attempted murder. Two 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:27.280 of the victims were cops. UM, all of them linked 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:32.079 to the same woman over the course from two thousand 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:37.439 and seven, all in roughly the same general area of Germany. Yeah, 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:39.880 and two of the murders are similar enough, and that 0:12:39.920 --> 0:12:43.240 they were strangled with some kind of wire and I 0:12:43.280 --> 0:12:46.920 think both were missing just little amounts of money. Um, 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:49.000 it didn't seem like a huge robbery kind of thing, 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:51.679 but they were close enough to where there were some 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.960 similarities to where they said, Okay, these make a little 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:58.320 bit of sense together. However, except that it was a 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.760 woman who was strangling, which is not common at all. Uh. 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:04.320 And then the cop one though that many years later 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.640 was really kind of threw everyone for a loop. Um. Nevertheless, 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.040 the DNA all matched and so the media started in 0:13:12.120 --> 0:13:14.640 with his story. Like you said, the Phantom of heil 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:19.000 Broom or the woman without a face. Yeah, and apparently 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.079 she's been known as the woman without a face before 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.680 when they were tracking those two cold cases that they've 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.640 matched the DNA too before, and then with the murder 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.839 of the police officer, Um, she became the Phantom of 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:34.880 Heilbron Um. So now German UM investigators were like, we 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.160 have a woman serial killer on our hands who's been 0:13:38.200 --> 0:13:42.520 active at least since and no one has seen her, 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.240 and we need to find this person a S A P. 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:48.280 Because she's now a cop killer. All right, I think 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:51.920 it's a great cliffhanger. Yep. Should we take a break? Ye? 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:53.800 All right, We'll be right back with more of the 0:13:53.800 --> 0:14:16.560 Phantom of heilbron right after this. So, Chuck, I have 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.200 to say, I just want to say this, Um. There 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:22.320 was a part where we're talking about DNA profile sharing 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:26.320 the across the EU in two thousand seven, they also 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:30.680 were sharing license plate information and that occurred to me 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:35.200 that the font on those plates was false song suresh 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:39.680 one day shrift. Yeah, and I just I spelled it out. 0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:41.720 I sounded it out. My god, I was gonna say 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:45.440 it in this episode, come hell or high water. Good job, 0:14:45.960 --> 0:14:49.000 thanks um, all right. So where we last left you 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.400 was there is the murder of a police officer, the 0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:55.680 serious wounding of another, and then two cold cases from 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:58.320 many years before, all tied to the same d n 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:03.360 A of what they know is one um. All of 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.120 a sudden, they start matching this DNA with these uh 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:11.360 you know, people start sharing databases in crime um particulars 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.800 around the EU, and they said, wait a minute, this 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:19.400 person's DNA is everywhere. There's and and it's not murders. 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:22.800 There are a dozen break INDs, and there are car 0:15:22.920 --> 0:15:26.680 thefts in Austria and in France and in Germany. And 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.720 there's a break in in an office in Germany. There's 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:34.120 a burglary in Mainz, Germany. The the gas cap of 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:37.840 a car that was stolen had this d A d 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:40.360 n A on it. In two thousand three, there was 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:43.240 a toy pistol used in a robbery in France with 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.360 this d n A on it. And everyone is like, 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:48.840 that's why this name Phantom of Heilbron like locked in 0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:51.520 so much, because all of a sudden, like you could 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:53.920 go on for an hour listing the crimes that this 0:15:54.040 --> 0:15:57.840 DNA was found at. Yeah, so we've got a female 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.520 serial killer in Germany who also Pierce savoth taste for 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:05.360 just common crimes as well, so much so that it 0:16:05.400 --> 0:16:09.880 seemed like she may have been more of a um 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.800 like a burglar or robber who was totally fine with 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:18.920 murder but didn't need to murder all the time. Um, 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.480 more than a serial killer that liked to engage in 0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.400 petty crime and one of those, I just have to say, 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.480 one of those um burglaries. A breaking at an office 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.480 in Dietzenbach on New Year's Day two thousand three. One 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.960 of the prosecutors in this case, who was tracking the phantom, 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.600 named Gunter Horn, said that this was a professional job. 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.200 It's a quote, but it was the theft of a 0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.200 can of loose change. So I thought that was kind 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:46.880 of hilarious that he was like, this person is of 0:16:46.920 --> 0:16:49.480 aiding us that it's a professional job no matter what 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:51.640 she's doing, even if she's stealing loose change in a 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:55.320 coffee can from an office, doesn't matter. She's pro Well. 0:16:55.360 --> 0:16:57.440 I mean, that's the kind of interesting thing about this case, 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:59.320 I think is once you have this DNA at all 0:16:59.320 --> 0:17:04.520 these crimes, your your cop masterminds are going to start 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.080 trying to piece together and they did in this case, 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.040 like we gotta profile this person, and what kind of 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.280 a person would I don't think we mentioned that was 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:15.000 also the DNA was found on a heroin needle. Yeah, 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.360 that was a big turning point to a seven year 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:21.000 old stepped on in Germany and his parents said, hey, 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:23.359 can you investigate this? My kids stepped on this needle. 0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:25.879 They swabbed it and found that DNA. So all of 0:17:25.960 --> 0:17:28.920 a sudden, this profile was like, this is a drug user. 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:33.240 Maybe she steals little bits to to fund the drug 0:17:33.280 --> 0:17:36.359 habit and maybe, like you said, the murders just happened 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:40.760 out of necessity because of these petty crimes. So kind 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:42.480 of the point is like, once you've got all these 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:46.080 weird disparate crimes, um, you're still gonna have cops that 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:49.880 are trying to tie them to a single sort of brain. Right, 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:51.600 they were just trying to figure out who they were 0:17:51.640 --> 0:17:55.840 after basically. Um, So yeah, that heroin syringe from two 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.840 thousand one really kind of explain things like the coffee 0:17:59.840 --> 0:18:02.480 came and of loose change, you know, um, those kind 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.240 of robberies and breake ins um. And then there was 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.480 another thing that kind of added to the puzzle as 0:18:08.520 --> 0:18:11.199 they were on her trail. Um in two thousand five 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:17.000 in Verms in Germany. UM, a Roma man shot his 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:22.239 brother and so the police were, um getting stuff from 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:26.880 the crime scene. What's they called. They were collecting evidence 0:18:27.960 --> 0:18:31.600 from the crime scene, and um, the DNA they found 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.760 on one of the bullets was the phantoms. So now 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.600 they're like, okay, this kind of explains how she's making 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:43.240 her way back and forth around the EU in France, Germany, Austria. 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.239 She's she's basically looked up with the Roman community, if 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:51.119 not Roma herself. Um. And then there was one other 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:56.000 thing too, Um, she had accomplices in some of these crimes, 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.440 and they were none of them would say a word 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.960 about her. They all clammed up. Whenever the cops went 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:05.080 to them and said, hey, you know this crime you 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:07.159 got busted four we just found out that you had 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:11.080 an accomplice, They would just not They just stopped talking. Yeah, 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.240 And uh, I think when I think it was the 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.359 gunter Horn talked about the fact that I think his 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:21.600 frustration and police's general frustration that even after these people 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:24.119 are behind bars, they're still not talking and they're not 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:28.159 saying anything. So they basically said what we kind of 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.640 did was basically wait for reports to come in with 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.080 this d n A turning up again and then we 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:38.880 would have a new lead. And between I think, uh 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:42.719 two thousand seven, summer two thousand seven and spring two 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:47.639 thousand eight, um, they were like garden shed break ins. 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:52.560 Sometimes food and drink was stolen. Um, nothing real big happened. 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:58.880 But again lots of more crimes start trickling in. Um. 0:19:58.920 --> 0:20:01.840 And they think also the that those garden shed break ins, 0:20:02.359 --> 0:20:05.360 that she was spending the night in those garden sheds, 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:07.919 So that would suggest also that she was aware she 0:20:08.000 --> 0:20:10.680 was being hunted and on the run. Yes, look right there, 0:20:10.720 --> 0:20:16.240 you can see a depression in the haystack right so. Um. 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:18.800 So there was another one too, and I believe this 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.280 was the last crime. They they Yeah, I think it 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.200 was the last crime. No, it wasn't. There was another crime. 0:20:25.359 --> 0:20:28.120 It was a little odd, um it was. It took 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.720 place in near the Luxembourg border where a woman who 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:34.280 was the manager of the cleaning staff at a fishing lodge. 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:36.400 Someone snuck up behind her, hit her on the head 0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:39.480 hard and made off with three hundred euros that I 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:42.600 guess she had on her. And when they they did, 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.359 they collected evidence in the room at that fishing lodge. 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:49.480 They found the phantom's DNA there. Now, from what I saw, 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:53.240 it wasn't on the woman or any weapon or anything 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.919 like that, just in the room. So they didn't know 0:20:55.960 --> 0:20:58.800 whether she had been there before or whether she was 0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.800 involved in this. But either way they were like, Okay, 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:04.680 now she's over by Luxembourg too. I flew out of 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:08.920 Luxembourg once. Oh yeah, how how's the airport? I threw 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:13.040 up in a trash can at the airport. Long story. 0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.800 Does it have to do with rope trauma? No? Now 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:20.760 we have two mysteries. Almost got um. So the biggest 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:27.000 crime aside from that initial uh police murder uh in 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.280 these cold cases came in two thousand eight with a 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:33.600 triple murder. This was in January two tho eight. The 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:38.040 bodies of three used car dealers from Georgia European Georgia 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:41.160 not here, We're found in the Rhine River in Germany 0:21:41.200 --> 0:21:44.199 and two men were arrested, a forty year old Iraqi 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:49.040 and twenty six year old Somalian citizen. So they looked 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:51.359 at these guys and say, we know what happened. Um. 0:21:51.600 --> 0:21:55.560 These car dealers were in town getting cars to sell 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.720 back home, and they had a lot of cash on them, 0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.639 so you murder them for their me They searched the 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:06.040 one suspect, the Iraqi suspect, and they found traces of 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:10.919 you guessed it, the phantom of Heilbron DNA was in 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:14.560 that car. Yeah, please question the guy. And again he's 0:22:14.600 --> 0:22:16.560 not talking. He has no nothing to say to the 0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:20.240 police about who this mystery woman is. Yep. So now 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:24.840 she's shown that she's capable of, if not participating in, 0:22:24.920 --> 0:22:29.439 at least presiding over triple homicides. That is not that 0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:32.800 many people are capable of triple homicides, you know, But 0:22:33.040 --> 0:22:35.080 it's also kind of not surprising if you look at 0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:38.119 her past that she's also willing to get up in 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:42.040 close and personal and strangle elderly citizens with garden twine. 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:44.560 So it's not that big of a shock, but it's 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:47.680 a it's a it's a big addition to the profile 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:50.640 of of her that the police are coming up with. 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:53.720 And so um, they started to put all this stuff 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:57.560 together like that the syringe suggested that she used drugs, 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:00.760 and you know, some of the pettier crime suggested that 0:23:00.800 --> 0:23:05.960 she was committing them to probably get drugs. Um. She 0:23:06.200 --> 0:23:10.640 generally stuck around southwestern Germany, but she also was capable 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:14.399 of moving over to Austria and France, and so they 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:19.040 said her connection with the Roma probably helps her do that. Um. 0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:23.800 So they were putting this together and they still weren't 0:23:23.840 --> 0:23:28.520 finding anybody. No one was emerging like she just kept 0:23:28.520 --> 0:23:31.480 eluding them crime after crime after crime. And one of 0:23:31.480 --> 0:23:34.359 the big problems was is there was either no eye 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:37.480 witnesses to the crime or no eye witnesses saw her. 0:23:38.160 --> 0:23:42.000 And then one day, one day there was an attempted 0:23:42.000 --> 0:23:45.919 break in and star breaking in two thousand six. By 0:23:45.920 --> 0:23:47.720 the way, I'm expecting you to be like your way 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:49.600 off if I'm way off, and if you say nothing, 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:53.840