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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 2: Joining me now is a Democratic Congressman from Cincinnati, Ohio,

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Speaker 2: Greg Landsman, Congressman.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for coming into.

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Speaker 2: The Podcastny, thanks for having me. Look, we are recording

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Speaker 2: about thirty minutes after we've all heard about the news

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Speaker 2: of what happened to Charlie Kirk from Turning Point conservative activists.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, this is.

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Speaker 2: Yet another moment where a piece of political violence happens.

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Speaker 2: We're shocked, not surprise, surprise, not shocked. I don't know

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Speaker 2: how else to put it, but this is just horrific.

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Speaker 2: One of the phrases I always like to use is

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Speaker 2: the reason human civilization created politics so we could resolve

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Speaker 2: disputes without violence. This happened on a college campus, Congressman,

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Speaker 2: where we should be celebrating speech. This is the first

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Speaker 2: couple weeks of school. I remember my freshman year. I

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Speaker 2: was so excited about out hearing different points of view.

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Speaker 2: I got to Jesse Jackson one day, Nuke Gingrich another.

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Speaker 2: Back in the early nineties at GW, it was it

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Speaker 2: was the best part of being And to think now

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Speaker 2: an entire and I look, I've got two kids college

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Speaker 2: right now. Oh wow, every college campus is going to

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Speaker 2: lock down, right, every college campus is suddenly going to

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Speaker 2: be afraid of celebrating speech and we have this. It's

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Speaker 2: just we know we've got to get out of this moment.

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Speaker 2: How do we get out of this moment?

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, you know, uh, one, you have to

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Speaker 3: decide as a country that this is it when we

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Speaker 3: don't want to do this anymore. And that's something that

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Speaker 3: happens collectively over some time. You know, I haven't seen

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Speaker 3: the video, but my understanding is it's pretty horrific.

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Speaker 1: I hope tech companies take it on. I mean.

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Speaker 2: It's I mean, my eighteen year old son immediately text

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Speaker 2: me goes, I've seen the video, and you're like, I

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Speaker 2: wish that Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: I've been talking about this, uh, you know for for

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Speaker 3: the better part of the year, because some of this

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Speaker 3: has has started to hit home. I mean we've we've

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Speaker 3: gotten our fair share of threats and and you know,

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Speaker 3: we had people outside of our house for several days.

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Speaker 3: I I am obviously frustrated, like everybody else at the moment,

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Speaker 3: I'm hoping uh for a miracle here that that hitt

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Speaker 3: and Charlie uh makes it. It's not clear what's going

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Speaker 3: to happen because I obviously I don't know, but you

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Speaker 3: you hope he not only survives, but he recovers. Either way,

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Speaker 3: it's a it's a tragedy and a horrific thing that

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Speaker 3: that we have to all be completely uh appalled by.

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Speaker 1: And then there is part of it it is political rhetoric,

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Speaker 1: like we all have to do a better job. Everyone does.

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Speaker 3: I'm very careful about what I say and how I

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Speaker 3: say it, but we need everyone, particularly those are the top,

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Speaker 3: to get their act together and to appreciate that strength

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Speaker 3: does not mean cruelty. Strength does not mean division. Strength

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Speaker 3: does not mean yet you ridicule people. Strength and kindness

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Speaker 3: actually go together. I mean, I think you know, you

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Speaker 3: want people who are daring and courageous and who are

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Speaker 3: strong and are willing to like run through a wall

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Speaker 3: to get something done, but who are also decent and

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Speaker 3: kind and bring people together. Plus, there is a mental

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Speaker 3: health issue in this country that's undeniable. There is a

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Speaker 3: social media you know issue in this country that's undeniable.

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Speaker 3: And there's an access to guns, not you know, everyday people,

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Speaker 3: but by those who have criminal intent, those who are dangerous.

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Speaker 3: Access to guns by those who are dangerous is a huge,

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Speaker 3: huge problem. And all of that comes together to create

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Speaker 3: a terrible, volatile, deadly situation.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think about the role of the tech companies.

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Speaker 1: This is where I I don't disagree with any.

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Speaker 2: Of you said I'm a zero in on the tech

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Speaker 2: companies in the algorithms because I really think they have

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Speaker 2: accelerated polarization. And I think when you when you look

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Speaker 2: at it's an accelerator. It's one hundred percent right. And

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Speaker 2: if you get a concentrated amount you know, of of

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Speaker 2: of fear or rhetoric that is designed to keep you

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Speaker 2: on a platform and anger you and fire you up

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Speaker 2: and do all of this, it does impact your brain.

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Speaker 2: And you know, whether you're sixty five or sixteen.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean personally, I got off of obviously, you know,

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Speaker 3: as an elected you know we have I'm I'm on

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Speaker 3: sub stack and x and Instagram and TikTok, all of them,

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Speaker 3: and we're constantly putting out content, and you know, people

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Speaker 3: print stuff out for me. So I'm getting I'm getting

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Speaker 3: feedback from people, but I do everything about a month ago,

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Speaker 3: and it feels like I'm I'm like a month sober,

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Speaker 3: Like I'm an infinitely happier person.

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Speaker 1: I'm more focused.

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Speaker 3: I think people would say, I'm I'm a kind person

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Speaker 3: to begin with, but I have been so nice of

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Speaker 3: mind the last month because I don't have this like

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Speaker 3: awfulness flooding rain all day and so I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Just one thing you can do is just delete it

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Speaker 3: all right now?

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Speaker 2: No, I mean, because if you think about it, unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: you know, most of our political debate is dominated by

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Speaker 2: some fringes who this is their hobby, this is all

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Speaker 2: they have. Maybe they're lonely and this is what they have.

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Speaker 2: Maybe they're you know, and there's so much of it

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Speaker 2: right The average person is living their life and is

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Speaker 2: in the middle of these you know, political debates right

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Speaker 2: now meeting.

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Speaker 3: Law uh and I hope to god, I know I

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Speaker 3: don't ever download them again. But it has also helped

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Speaker 3: me better connect to the people who I serve because

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Speaker 3: I'm I'm, I'm really just listening to them now there's

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Speaker 3: no other.

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Speaker 1: Noise, do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: And you know, like between friends and family and staff,

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Speaker 3: like who are now my algorithm? You know, I see

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Speaker 3: some stuff, they send me some stuff, and you know,

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Speaker 3: I can't really log on, but let sometimes Twitter will

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Speaker 3: let you on the browser and see what it is.

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Speaker 3: But I do think that for elected officials in particular,

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Speaker 3: it's really really bad to be uh.

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Speaker 1: Sitting around scrolling on these on these platforms.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to name names, but there's a couple

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Speaker 2: of members who are super online terrible, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's perverted their brain. There's there's a specific senator that

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Speaker 2: has warped who who I knew, I know and in

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Speaker 2: person is this fascinating, intellectually interesting person and their online

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Speaker 2: persona is off the rails.

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Speaker 1: And I blame you know.

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Speaker 2: I think they're like, I'm like, man, go hang out

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Speaker 2: with your kids, go play some video games.

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Speaker 3: I have, you know, a long list of issues with

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump and Jade Vance and this crew, uh, you know,

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Speaker 3: but on that list is the fact that they seem

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Speaker 3: to they just like they have the time. I don't

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Speaker 3: know what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: To it either. I can't believe the Vice president tweets

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Speaker 1: as much as he does with you.

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Speaker 3: I'm very busy, as are you, and and and including

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Speaker 3: at night. You know, Trump, you know, is tweeting the

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Speaker 3: middle of the night. I just they which also means

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Speaker 3: that they're sitting there reading all this stuff, uh, and

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Speaker 3: it just removes them from our everyday lives. But back

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Speaker 3: to the political violence piece. I mean, I think that

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Speaker 3: people need to call out those and political leadership who

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Speaker 3: crossed the line, and so do we and I when

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Speaker 3: it comes to me.

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Speaker 1: But this is where Republicans and Democrats should start working.

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Speaker 3: Together to say, Okay, there is a mental health issue here,

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Speaker 3: there is a social media you know. I'm on Energy

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Speaker 3: and Commerce and one of the reasons why I joined

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Speaker 3: this committee was one part healthcare, one part big tech.

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Speaker 3: I want to start to hold these folks accountable. And

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Speaker 3: the best thing you could do, quite frankly, to eliminate

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Speaker 3: the litigation shield that protects these companies a hundred percent.

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Speaker 1: You know, if individuals, communities have the ability to take.

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Speaker 3: On Mark Zuckerberg and say you got to get this

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Speaker 3: stuff off your platform in a lawsuit, he will get

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Speaker 3: this stuff off their well.

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Speaker 2: Congressman, I am look, I actually think you don't even

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Speaker 2: need to wipe out Section two thirty. I think the

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Speaker 2: law has been misinterpreted. The second Facebook created an algorithm,

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Speaker 2: they became a publisher. The second created an algorithm, they're

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Speaker 2: a publisher. This idea that the it's a no, no,

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Speaker 2: no no. The minute you choose to push stuff or

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Speaker 2: suppress stuff. You're now a publisher. That's I've been an editor.

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Speaker 2: I've been a publisher. I choose what to put as

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Speaker 2: a headline or what not to put us a headline.

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Speaker 1: The algorithm is the decision making.

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Speaker 2: You create it. And those companies I don't. I think

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Speaker 2: this is just flawed. I didn't go to law school,

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Speaker 2: but I play one.

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Speaker 1: On a podcast. Getting into two thirty will help that

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Speaker 1: argument even more.

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Speaker 2: But yes, I take your point, but I actually think

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Speaker 2: that again they are published.

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Speaker 1: This idea that they're not publishers.

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Speaker 2: Well they are now. Maybe they weren't at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: If they did a timeline, they wouldn't be. They could

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Speaker 2: they could hide behind two thirty. But they chose an

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Speaker 2: algorithm and they did. That's publishing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, once they picked the algorithm, I think that's right.

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Speaker 3: And then you know this is this is in my

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Speaker 3: pledge to America, what we're now calling the Great American

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Speaker 3: Comeback is our ten bills, right, that would fundamentally I

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Speaker 3: think fix what's been broken not just for the last

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Speaker 3: eight months but for decades, and one of those is

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Speaker 3: around public safety and saying like we do need to

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Speaker 3: have reform gun safety work that says, you know, folks

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Speaker 3: get to keep their guns, for sure, but we're going

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Speaker 3: to be really intentional about keeping guns away from dangerous people.

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Speaker 3: And I think you can get those those reforms done

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Speaker 3: if you pair it with the other thing we eat,

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Speaker 3: which is more cops. And that's what happened in the nineties,

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Speaker 3: right Clinton said, Look, we're gun reform done and make

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Speaker 3: things safer and reduce gun violence, but we also need

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Speaker 3: one hundred thousand cops. And so that's our twenty first

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Speaker 3: century anti crime bill that I think resonates with people

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Speaker 3: because they see these things and they see disgusting. You know,

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Speaker 3: this should not be happening. I did this guy? How

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Speaker 3: did this guy get a weapon? He's clearly unwell, and

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Speaker 3: a lot of gun owners, you know, like I'm surrounded

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Speaker 3: by gun owners.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is I grew up with gunner. I'm

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Speaker 1: from Southwest Ohio.

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Speaker 3: I think everyone on my street is a gun owner

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Speaker 3: and they feel the same way that I do, which

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Speaker 3: is there are certain people who are unwell that should

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Speaker 3: not have weapons, and this guy probably was one of them.

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Speaker 2: Well, to me, the minute you make a decision that

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Speaker 2: violence is the is the right, something is snapped, right,

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Speaker 2: I sort of know right like the minute, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I think that I forget who used to say, you know,

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Speaker 2: we don't America doesn't have the lion's share of mentally

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Speaker 2: ill people. We just have our mentally ill people have

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Speaker 2: access to far greater firepower than many other countries with

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Speaker 2: their mentally ill people.

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Speaker 3: We do have more mentally ill folks I think roaming around.

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Speaker 3: But yes, I mean I do think that's said, like

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Speaker 3: my side of the aisle has to contend with which

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Speaker 3: is you know, they're you know, yes, we don't have bets,

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Speaker 3: but we also have to have a plan because you know,

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Speaker 3: you're seeing this play out in our cities, and Democrats

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Speaker 3: have to lead in a way that not only convinces

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Speaker 3: people we're serious about public safety, but demonstrates that we

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Speaker 3: are because crime is going down.

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Speaker 2: So this one of the unfortunate things that is probably

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Speaker 2: going to happen is we're going to slide into this

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Speaker 2: whose whose side is more violent debate? And I this

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Speaker 2: is where I don't know if we have the leadership

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Speaker 2: and we have both parties to say that's.

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Speaker 1: Not the answer that right, Yeah, who cares?

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Speaker 3: I mean, like you this is where again, being off

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Speaker 3: social media is so helpful, because all I think about

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Speaker 3: is like, Okay, what's my wife this. I know what

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Speaker 3: she's going to think of this, but I want to

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Speaker 3: hear from her. I want to hear from my friends.

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Speaker 3: I want to hear from my family members. I want

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Speaker 3: to hear from my constituents. And they're all going to

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Speaker 3: say the same. It's all going to be this is

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Speaker 3: this has got to stop, Like we can't.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter.

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Speaker 3: I almost want to say that Charlie Kirk, who is

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Speaker 3: obviously very conservative, very outspoken, just as a political figure.

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Speaker 3: Don't call him anything else, just he's a political figure

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Speaker 3: who was shot.

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Speaker 2: And for simply expressing his opinion. Correct, that is that

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Speaker 2: is we founded our country exactly, mean the first amendment,

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Speaker 2: you know that was we have the greatest that amendment.

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Speaker 2: No other country hasn't. You know, no other country hasn't.

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Speaker 2: And the more we behave this way, this is how

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Speaker 2: you lose it.

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Speaker 3: We should fight for it, and you know, I this

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Speaker 3: is not going to happen, but we the president should

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Speaker 3: say this is a horrific thing. It doesn't matter the politics,

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Speaker 3: it doesn't matter that like this has to end. Nobody

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Speaker 3: should ever ever ever pick up a gun or any

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Speaker 3: other you know, weapon and hurt somebody ever for any reason,

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Speaker 3: certainly not for political Uh way, look.

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Speaker 2: Our this our president has was almost killed, correct and

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Speaker 2: uh which.

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Speaker 3: By the way, was one of the scariest moments I

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Speaker 3: remember as.

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Speaker 2: Saying, I mean, it was extraordinarily scary. And you know

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Speaker 2: it's and you know, let me ask you this, why

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Speaker 2: hasn't there been like a congressional special committee to investigate

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Speaker 2: what happened in Butler and learn more about this? It's

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Speaker 2: it's been one of the strangest posts. Yeah, I've been

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Speaker 2: surprised at how little and it's it's a little demand

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Speaker 2: there's been for something of there's been. There was some

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Speaker 2: after action report, but it didn't get the get the

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Speaker 2: focus that I think it deserves.

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Speaker 1: Well.

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Speaker 3: This is This is also one of the reasons, I

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Speaker 3: think is because what was a hallmark of politics growing

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Speaker 3: up for me was a sense of bipartisanship.

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Speaker 1: There there was there was a sale right now. That

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Speaker 1: is one of the reasons.

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Speaker 3: Why is because you know, if if if we if

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Speaker 3: the folks at the top were as bipartisan as I am,

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Speaker 3: I suspect as you are in terms of like wanting

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Speaker 3: to have everyone in the room. You want everyone in

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Speaker 3: the room. If you're going to solve a problem.

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Speaker 1: I count on it. I don't.

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Speaker 2: I'm afraid of literally one side is in a room,

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Speaker 2: no matter which side it is.

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Speaker 1: I want you want everyone in the room. I want

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Speaker 1: to check.

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Speaker 3: That's how you that's how you get to a better solution.

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Speaker 3: It's also how you get to a durable solution. I

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Speaker 3: think the challenge was everyone, you know, immediately took a

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Speaker 3: political position on Butler, you know, and and and some said, oh,

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Speaker 3: law enforcement, uh, you know, screwed this thing up, and

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Speaker 3: that's the end of it. And then others said, no,

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Speaker 3: this was, you know, a crazy person, and and this

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Speaker 3: kid and well he was a Democrat, and the no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: he was a Republican. It was sort of like, who

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Speaker 3: cares he was a violent individual. How did he get

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Speaker 3: so broken? That's what we need to find out. How

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Speaker 3: did the kid get so broken? How did he get

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Speaker 3: a gun? How did he get on that roof? And

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Speaker 3: how was he in a position on that roof to

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Speaker 3: shoot the president? Like those are the answers, and then

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Speaker 3: how do you sure that never happens again?

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Speaker 2: But it is it to me, it's just shocking how

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Speaker 2: little we know about the shooter, how little we know

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Speaker 2: about what happened there. And you know, look, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if this is going to happen. I'm skeptical it would.

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Speaker 2: But this demand, this calls This is one of those

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Speaker 2: things where if you are worried the country's in a

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Speaker 2: tinder that we're in a tinder box right now, and

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Speaker 2: my concern is we are, then I don't care who

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Speaker 2: the president is. They need to address the nation and

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Speaker 2: calm the waters. I agree, And I hope he. I

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Speaker 2: hope you and I I hope Susie Wiles. I know

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Speaker 2: Susie Wiles gets it.

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Speaker 1: I do. I do. I hope. I hope he'll embrace it.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if he can. I'm not. Look, he's

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Speaker 1: you know, we can. He can go through all the ways.

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Speaker 2: He has celebrated pugilism and all that stuff. I'm not

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Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't matter the moment. Right now, he's

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Speaker 2: the president. He can rise up, he could be he

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Speaker 2: could be so powerful if he would do this, it

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Speaker 2: would be a powerful moment for him. And if you

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Speaker 2: want me to be cynical, might be good politics for him.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean Barack Obama was good at this. He

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Speaker 1: was Bill Clinton was good at this. George W. Bush

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Speaker 1: was good at this. Our presidents usually know how to

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Speaker 1: rise to the family this.

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Speaker 3: I mean they really I'm going back and reading all

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Speaker 3: these inaugural dresses as part of writing this great American comeback,

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Speaker 3: and it's really Trump was the departure from an Ourea

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Speaker 3: address that was all about where we go from here

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Speaker 3: and how much better it's going to be and how

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Speaker 3: it's rooted and who we are.

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Speaker 1: They off follow this formula.

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Speaker 3: Of except one, I know, but that doesn't mean he

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Speaker 3: can't redeem himself.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I you know, the beginning of his speech in Milwaukee

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Speaker 2: had that feel to it for a bit.

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Speaker 1: That's the thing.

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Speaker 3: It's like, you know, it's always the beginning, and then

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Speaker 3: it just sort of he goes off script. But look,

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Speaker 3: I think we need to get to a place after

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Speaker 3: this moment. And obviously we work in this moment, to

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Speaker 3: be clear, but I think we need to get to

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Speaker 3: a place where we have these really energized, determined, strong

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Speaker 3: leaders who are willing to run through a wall to

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Speaker 3: fix this, and we're going to bring up, you know,

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Speaker 3: the biggest coalition of people, multi generational, multi racial, bipartisan

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Speaker 3: group of people together to upend what's broken. And the

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Speaker 3: list of things that are broken is long, but our

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Speaker 3: capacity to fix things throughout our history.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's there.

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Speaker 3: I mean have it and to me, we just we.

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Speaker 1: We I know this is changing the gears a little bit. Ben. No,

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Speaker 1: it's a.

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Speaker 3: Country and certainly as a party, my caucus, my crew,

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Speaker 3: but the country too that we've been chasing Trump for

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Speaker 3: ten years, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know.

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Speaker 2: I had a friend, a friend of mine say just

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Speaker 2: that reaction, this initial his initial reaction is a Democratic

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Speaker 2: strategist who said, and I don't I want to I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to use his name, but it's funny you said,

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Speaker 2: because it was.

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Speaker 1: It was immediately.

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Speaker 2: It's like he's like, he goes, I'm so tired of

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Speaker 2: Dems talking about Trump.

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Speaker 1: And he's a Dem. Yeah, exactly same. Now I get

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Speaker 1: the look.

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Speaker 3: I'm in the middle of a bunch of fights, really

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Speaker 3: important fights with this administration because I have federal workers

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Speaker 3: in my district who I will go to the map

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Speaker 3: for and I'm going to do everything in my power

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Speaker 3: to keep their jobs.

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Speaker 1: And I've got people my district who are going.

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Speaker 3: To their healthcare if I don't if I don't put

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Speaker 3: up a good if I don't put up the best

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Speaker 3: fight possible.

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Speaker 1: So like there are fights day in and day out.

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Speaker 3: However, leading is something that they desperately want us to do.

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Speaker 3: And and chasing Trump.

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Speaker 1: Is not leading.

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Speaker 3: Uh And I think folks are desperate for that kind

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Speaker 3: of leadership that says, look, we are going to head

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Speaker 3: in a different direction. Uh and and and we are

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Speaker 3: going to pull the American people in that direction.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: You know, by fixing the economy, by tackling public safety,

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Speaker 3: by offering real solutions on immigration and border security. Uh

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Speaker 3: and and and you continue to make the case before,

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Speaker 3: during after elections, uh, so that it becomes what the

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Speaker 3: vast majority of Americans expect. That's how you get to

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Speaker 3: this great American comeback. And I think that's how you,

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Speaker 3: as a member of the Democratic Party, that's how we

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Speaker 3: get folks back to.

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Speaker 1: Say, Okay, we know who you are.

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Speaker 3: You're not just people who don't like Trump. You are

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Speaker 3: people who are going to fix the tax coach so

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Speaker 3: that we get the money, not the super wealthy. You're

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Speaker 3: the folks that are going to help us pay our

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Speaker 3: bills because there is an affordability crisis and you're the

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Speaker 3: folks that are going to, like, you know, build ten

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Speaker 3: million new homes, Like you guys are going to be

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Speaker 3: the ones that start to get the country building again,

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Speaker 3: and so on and so forth. And I just think

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Speaker 3: people are desperate for it. I am, like, I consider

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Speaker 3: myself the most average voter, Like I'm about as average

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Speaker 3: of a you know, and so like that's what I want.

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Speaker 1: I want to see.

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Speaker 3: I want to see, you know, a really strong group

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Speaker 3: of leaders who appreciate the fact that this system, whether

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Speaker 3: it's the political system, the economic system, the immigration system,

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Speaker 3: it's all broken.

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Speaker 1: It's been broken longer than eight months.

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Speaker 3: It's been broken for decades, and we need a group

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Speaker 3: of like really daring people to go fix it.

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Speaker 2: So you got your start in politics. What did you

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Speaker 2: do before becoming a member of the city council.

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Speaker 3: Before I was at city hall, I was doing education

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Speaker 3: shot advocacy work.

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Speaker 1: I was a teacher. My parents were teachers. I'm a yeah,

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Speaker 1: what'd you teach?

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Speaker 3: I taught high school Spanish and Spanish and remedial math.

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Speaker 1: Interesting, Yeah, I mean, I just I wanted to be

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Speaker 1: in a classroom, you know.

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Speaker 3: I made a list when I was like in my

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Speaker 3: early twenties of like everything I wanted.

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Speaker 1: To do was running for Congress one of them, or

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Speaker 1: being in running for office was one. I think know

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Speaker 1: which you didn't.

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Speaker 3: That was actually the sentence on my It was a

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Speaker 3: list of ten twelve things I want.

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Speaker 1: To Did you say you wanted to be president? It's okay?

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Speaker 2: And klob A Shard told me Ay clob an interview

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Speaker 2: told me that in high school she thought about being.

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Speaker 3: President with my twenties and said run for office. And

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Speaker 3: I remember somebody seeing a really close friend and he said,

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Speaker 3: do you want to be more ambitious? And I said,

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Speaker 3: what do you mean. He's like, I mean, don't you want

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Speaker 3: to win? That's like it does just say run, does

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Speaker 3: only say run. But that's how That's what it's tell

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Speaker 3: me about the city council experience. Because I sit here,

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Speaker 3: I have a very cynical view, sometimes shocking. Right, you'd

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Speaker 3: spend this much time in Washington, you can't help it.

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Speaker 2: But one of my jokes is the least corrupt legislative

442
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,920
Speaker 2: body in America's Congress, and that the more local you go,

443
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,119
Speaker 2: the more possibility for corruption there is, mostly because there

444
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 2: aren't a lot of reporters like me covering city council races.

445
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,240
Speaker 2: There are a lot of reporters that cover Congress and

446
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 2: even though we sit here and over index on congressional scandals,

447
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 2: My goodness, it's the stuff people don't realize what's happening there.

448
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 2: So I know that was a very cynical answer. I'm

449
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 2: setting you up here, But am I being too cynical?

450
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 1: Well, you know, I think being skeptical is really good.

451
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 1: I don't know.

452
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,560
Speaker 3: I can only speak for Cincinnati. I mean, Cincinnati has

453
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 3: been relatively clean. We've had a relatively.

454
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,639
Speaker 1: Good You have a weak mayor system. It's kind of

455
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: in the middle.

456
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:32,119
Speaker 3: You have an independently elected mayor who hires and fires

457
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 3: a city manager who obviously.

458
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 1: Council is pretty strong, right, They're pretty.

459
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 3: Powerful, very very strong, And so if you want to

460
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 3: be a strong mayor, you have to work for it.

461
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 3: And I love that about our system, which means you

462
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,439
Speaker 3: have to have really good relationships with and build a

463
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 3: strong coalition on council, and really strong mayors have done that.

464
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:52,920
Speaker 3: But you got to want it.

465
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: It just doesn't. You got to work for it.

466
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,639
Speaker 3: And I feel that way about the presidency of the

467
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 3: United States, Like there's a lot of power there. What

468
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 3: I think now seems strong because he's like, but he's

469
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 3: only using the levers at the White House. He's not

470
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 3: he's not doing anything other than the records.

471
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 1: I call him.

472
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 2: It's like getting It's like potato chip calories right, it

473
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 2: isn't healthy.

474
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 1: And more importantly, it'll disappear.

475
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,639
Speaker 2: It means you know immediately, you know, if you do

476
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,720
Speaker 2: everything to be executive order, you leave nothing.

477
00:25:20,720 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: That's last way.

478
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so like you have to like work with Congress,

479
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 3: and so we have a system that requires the mayor

480
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 3: to work with counsel and to have a governing coalition,

481
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 3: which I think is great. There there have been there obviously,

482
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 3: there was some pretty serious issues with corruption in the

483
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 3: last couple of years and a city council. One of

484
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 3: the things I did at the I was there for

485
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 3: five years was to set up the first ever Office

486
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 3: of Good Government, Ethics and Good Government, which requires a

487
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 3: ton of training and support and new expectations.

488
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 1: Which I think have helped because it's been enough.

489
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 3: But smooth sailing since the office was created, but it

490
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 3: has gotten better. I do also think that like everyone,

491
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 3: let me say this, it helped me to be at

492
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:13,480
Speaker 3: City Hall.

493
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: It helped me because every every.

494
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 3: Week I was in front of my constituents there was

495
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 3: open public comments section, you know, sessions where you know,

496
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:25,840
Speaker 3: for as long as they wanted, you know, everyone got

497
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:29,719
Speaker 3: two minutes, and sometimes those lasted for hours, you know,

498
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 3: and like I can get time.

499
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:33,800
Speaker 2: I'm envisioning scenes out of parks and rec you know,

500
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 2: as I will those people passionately.

501
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 3: That's just when people are yelling at me, I just

502
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 3: I what's the Leslie Nobe line. They're just they're just

503
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 3: talking passionately, but something like that. But yeah, I like that.

504
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 3: I think it's really good and healthy to hear from people.

505
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's like pretty crazy stuff. Sometimes it's actually like God,

506
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 3: that is a good idea, or like, yeah, we should

507
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 3: actually spend more time focusing on these questions.

508
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 1: I also think one more thing.

509
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 3: I also think it's really important that we start to

510
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 3: run government much better. And if you've been at city

511
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 3: hall and you care about running government much better, you

512
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 3: have a really good census to like what bureaucracy can

513
00:27:17,119 --> 00:27:21,679
Speaker 3: do and why it can become a huge problem, and

514
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,680
Speaker 3: what you have to do to like punch through and

515
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 3: create shot clocks and get stuff out the door, and

516
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 3: why that's so important. You learn a lot about public

517
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 3: safety and what cops need and what firefighters need, and

518
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: what communities want from their cops and their firefighters. Uh.

519
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 3: And you learn the basics the paving, you know, paving

520
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 3: roads and picking up trash, and why doing the basics,

521
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 3: the fundamentals has to be top of like that's what

522
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 3: you have, Like there's all these wonderful things I want

523
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 3: to do for children and families, from prenatal care to

524
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 3: childcare and all these things. And ultimately we got done fiction, prevention,

525
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,880
Speaker 3: housing stuff. But you got to do the basics first.

526
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 3: And I think that's true at state and you know

527
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: state at the state level end up here.

528
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 2: Compare being a small legislature essentially, which is what a

529
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: city council is, to this gigantic one.

530
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 1: It there are more personalities.

531
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just gonna say, it must be both

532
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,919
Speaker 2: more empowering and sometimes frustrating though that you take so

533
00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 2: long to get something done.

534
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's this.

535
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 3: I guess this is the other The other benefit of

536
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 3: I think being at city hall is that they're at

537
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 3: city hall, like you're constantly any calls from people and

538
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 3: in the city that need help, we can know and

539
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 3: picked up their trash, their mail is not getting delivered

540
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 3: to them, there's a problem property across the street, and

541
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 3: so you're constantly getting to work, which I love. When

542
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 3: you get to Congress, you can do the same thing,

543
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 3: like just you have you invest in your case work team,

544
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 3: and you tell your case work team like, obviously your

545
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 3: focus is on federal agencies, but if they need help

546
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 3: with a local help.

547
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,960
Speaker 1: Them out, figure it out. You figure it out.

548
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 3: And if that means helping to figure out who to

549
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 3: call to get their trash picked up, be that person.

550
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 3: And you know, we're known for that, which is awesome

551
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 3: And I love getting in the middle of some of

552
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 3: the stuff.

553
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,800
Speaker 1: I give my email and my phone number out wherever

554
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 1: I go.

555
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 3: I staff hates, but I'll get an email that's like, hey,

556
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry, nobody picked up my trash, and I'm like,

557
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 3: I love this because I know who to like, yeah,

558
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: here's who's going to so now. In addition to that,

559
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 3: if you're if you get really good at the legislative

560
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 3: part up here, you can fundamentally change the world. Like

561
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,520
Speaker 3: I think that's the the you know, we last year

562
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 3: forced to vote on the Social Security Fairness Act now

563
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 3: there are millions of people in this country. For twenty

564
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,600
Speaker 3: five years, this bill have been sitting in Congress where teachers,

565
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 3: retired teachers, police officers, firefighters, letter carriers. They weren't getting

566
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 3: all there so security because they got their stay pension

567
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 3: and you know they don't give them too much, but

568
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 3: they paid for their Social Security. They paid into soci Security,

569
00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 3: so it's earned benefits. And it had three hundred and

570
00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 3: sixty three signatures. People who were like, no, I want

571
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:08,959
Speaker 3: to do that because they wanted to tell their teachers

572
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 3: or or police or they're firefighters.

573
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: That they were on the bill. But it wouldn't get

574
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: to the floor.

575
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 3: And so I worked with Abigail Spamburger and Garrett Gray's Republican,

576
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 3: she's a Democrat, and we after weeks months of negotiating,

577
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:26,480
Speaker 3: when we realized we weren't going to get.

578
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: A vote, we forced a vote.

579
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 3: It was one of only a couple distreasure petitions last session.

580
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 3: I went hard to get two hundred and eighteen signatures.

581
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 3: We got in two days and it passed the House.

582
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,280
Speaker 3: We worked it on the Senate. We got Schumer to

583
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 3: get us a vote, and now it's twenty billion dollars

584
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 3: a year, which is a lot of money, but it's

585
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 3: their money that's going to retire teachers. So when I'm

586
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 3: out and about, I swear to you this is not

587
00:30:55,240 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 3: her Hyperbolely every every week, let's say, multiple people coming

588
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: up to me and saying thank you because I get

589
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 3: all my benefits. That's like six seven hundred dollars a

590
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 3: month now, and that's a big deal. That's twenty years.

591
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 3: So it's like, no, I want to figure out how

592
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 3: to do this so well that I'm doing all of

593
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 3: I'm doing that, you know, four or five, six, seven, eight.

594
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 1: Times a year.

595
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 2: So sometime after nine to eleven congressional leaders ruin Congress.

596
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: I sit here and I wish you were a member

597
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 2: back when there was a lot more opportunity for non

598
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 2: leadership to get stuff done. The fact that you have

599
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: to use discharge petitions, right, you know.

600
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:38,360
Speaker 1: One of the things.

601
00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:40,040
Speaker 2: Now we have five hundred and thirty five members of

602
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 2: Congress and four people make decisions.

603
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: It is it is. You know, sometimes I almost don't

604
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: want to even.

605
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 2: Bother telling people how it used to work, because for me,

606
00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 2: it doesn't feel like that long ago, Like this was

607
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,560
Speaker 2: still the nineties and committee chairs and ranking members could

608
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 2: work together.

609
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: And do stuff.

610
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,680
Speaker 2: Max Boker, I said, Chuck Grassley ran the Finance Committee.

611
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 2: They cared more about running that committee together than they

612
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: did either of their party leaders, until eventually the party

613
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 2: leaders just sort of revoked those privileges.

614
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: This is one of my bres when I went on break.

615
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 1: I'm so frustrated about this.

616
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 3: When I went on break last year for the election,

617
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 3: which was essentially the end of the term, right, I

618
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 3: asked somebody to pull. Somebody from a team pulled the

619
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 3: number of bills that passed out of committee that are

620
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 3: ready for a floor vote. Six hundred and ninety eight.

621
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 3: There were seven hundred bills. You're kidding me. I didn't

622
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:34,840
Speaker 3: know that number. So say that again.

623
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,920
Speaker 2: Seven one hundred bills made it out of committee, which

624
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 2: means it had, you know, majority vote, made it out

625
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: of committee. And you know, we all supposedly saw the

626
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,959
Speaker 2: cartoon of how bill becomes a law, so you get

627
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 2: out of committee and it's supposed to go to the

628
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 2: floor of the House. And how many of those six

629
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 2: hundred ninety eight bills made it to the floor the House.

630
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,640
Speaker 3: Let's just say, in the last couple of weeks of

631
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 3: the year, I don't know, We'll give them the benefit

632
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 3: of down and say fifty wow, and I think that's

633
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 3: probably generous. So I suspect it was around seven hundred.

634
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 3: That's a that's a batting average of under one hundred.

635
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 3: I mean, it's just insane, you know, so close to

636
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,480
Speaker 3: seven hundred bills or over six hundred and fifty bills

637
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 3: made it out of committee and never got a floor vote.

638
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 3: Now what was leadership doing with all that floor time?

639
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 3: They were putting forward messaging bills? You know. I mean

640
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,360
Speaker 3: it used to be that Congress so do a few

641
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 3: bills to try to like help their incumbents, But now

642
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 3: it's it's messaging bill after messaging bill after messaging bill.

643
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 2: Or do they have the direct mail pieces written in

644
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: advance and then they write the bill to make the

645
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 2: piece work?

646
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, does read the bills read like

647
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: hack you? We today?

648
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 3: This is another sad day the National Defense Reauthorization Act,

649
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 3: which has always been nonpartisan, remember you, and I I

650
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:58,440
Speaker 3: suspect you know, I say this to young people and

651
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 3: they're like, oh, that's a cool saying. But we grew

652
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:03,240
Speaker 3: up with it, which is politics ends at the water's edge.

653
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: I love that, which was. Unfortunately.

654
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 2: I have a thesis that that when the Berlin Wall fell,

655
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 2: so did that And I don't think.

656
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: We look, why do we go all the way that

657
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: I thought I was well.

658
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 2: Because of the I think when you look at it,

659
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,759
Speaker 2: if you actually look, if you sort of take a

660
00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 2: step back of where we are. The only time, the

661
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 2: only time that was actually relevant was during the Cold War,

662
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,800
Speaker 2: when both parties kept their fringes at bay and everybody

663
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 2: had their eye on the on the Soviet ball, and

664
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,799
Speaker 2: you did you had this sort of it didn't matter

665
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: who was president. Everybody was going to make sure, you know,

666
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 2: was concerned about nuclear war and was concerned about the Soviets.

667
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: Well, I want to I want to do too.

668
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: And we had it briefly at nine to eleven, but

669
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:49,719
Speaker 2: it went away pretty fast, and it is It's one

670
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 2: of those I have an Unfortunately I look at it,

671
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 2: and if you look at the totality of our two

672
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 2: hundred and forty nine years, the Cold War era might

673
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 2: be the outlier where we were more bipartisan, where we

674
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,319
Speaker 2: were a bit less sort of a caustic at each other.

675
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: We had the all of our presidential elections were blowouts.

676
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,439
Speaker 2: By the way we never had most of the during

677
00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 2: the Cold War sixty eight and seventy six were it.

678
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 2: You look at this century, every single presidential election has

679
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:21,120
Speaker 2: been decided by six points or less.

680
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think you're you're touching. I mean

681
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 3: that's interesting. I mean I wonder whether or not. And

682
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 3: I was just in Asia last week to pan in Tokyo,

683
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 3: and it's impossible not to spend most of the time

684
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,360
Speaker 3: talking about or thinking about the China threat and how real.

685
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: It is, how how how close we are?

686
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 2: What is I was on a show today that said

687
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:43,520
Speaker 2: how close are we to World War three? And I

688
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, please get off the internet.

689
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 2: But how would you have answered the question?

690
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 3: I mean, if we don't get our act together, we're

691
00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:52,560
Speaker 3: very close, and we're a couple of years away.

692
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, like.

693
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 3: You know, because at the moment, China has said within

694
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 3: the next couple of years they are going to resolve

695
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 3: the Taiwan issue in their minds, which is going to

696
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,919
Speaker 3: be potentially boots on the ground for them. They're going

697
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 3: to invade, and the Taiwan Straits is a huge, you know,

698
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,160
Speaker 3: trading artery, and.

699
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 1: You know, if China controls that.

700
00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 3: And decides, you know, well, if they move on Taiwan,

701
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,839
Speaker 3: the United States has to decide, the world has to

702
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 3: decide whether or not they're going to allow it. I

703
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,799
Speaker 3: think the answer is you can't at which point we

704
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 3: are at war.

705
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: I don't know what that war looks like.

706
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 3: But the best way to deter or to avoid that

707
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 3: is by being very very serious about our capabilities in

708
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 3: the region and by proving too ge that the cost

709
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,439
Speaker 3: of doing that, the cost of messing with Taiwan, which

710
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:02,760
Speaker 3: would potentially, you know, start a global war, is too high.

711
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,240
Speaker 1: And that now means.

712
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 3: You have to push Putin back, because if he sees

713
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 3: Putin advancing without you know, any real pushback from the

714
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 3: United States, you know, for example, he just messed around

715
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 3: in Poland and and and and our president seemed uninterested.

716
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 2: That's that was a little in fact, they hadn't said

717
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 2: anything on that is disconc Look, I mean Poland vote

718
00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:34,480
Speaker 2: before right.

719
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 3: Ken of the incentive to say, okay, if that if

720
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: the cost was up here, if that cost comes down,

721
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 3: and the further the cost goes down for China, the

722
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 3: more likely it is you don't.

723
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:47,840
Speaker 2: Well, let me let me I mean, look, this is

724
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,560
Speaker 2: how one person put it to me, this is somebody

725
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,480
Speaker 2: on the right who wants to defend Taiwan, but said,

726
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 2: how do you make the case to somebody in Cincinnati,

727
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:03,759
Speaker 2: Ohio that their son or daughter ought a fight on

728
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 2: behalf of this small island against China.

729
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's it's global trade.

730
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 3: It's also just the global order and you know us

731
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 3: being you know next, or our allies being next. You know,

732
00:38:16,719 --> 00:38:19,919
Speaker 3: it's the same situation in Ukraine. I look, I don't

733
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,480
Speaker 3: think that the next big global war necessarily means that

734
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 3: we have troops invading other countries.

735
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 2: I mean, oh yeah, we're learning the drone I mean

736
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 2: what we're learning coming out of I just had a

737
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 2: tremendous interview with Dexter Filkins, who did this deep dive

738
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: about the future of warfare and everything that's been learned

739
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 2: from the Ukrainians.

740
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: Here. The drone wars are here, Droune wars are here,

741
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: and you have to have you have to have, you.

742
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,560
Speaker 3: Know, people in strategic places all over the world, and

743
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 3: we do do we have enough?

744
00:38:51,560 --> 00:39:03,280
Speaker 1: Probably not? Should we have an Asian NATO?

745
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 3: So you know, I asked that question I was over there,

746
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 3: and the answer is no, We're good. The multilateral agreements

747
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 3: are fine, everyone's working together, that's what you need. But

748
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 3: it gets complicated and because not all of those countries,

749
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,320
Speaker 3: it's not the same as Europe. There's not a shared currency,

750
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 3: there's not a shared economy, but there's a shared concern

751
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 3: about China.

752
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I do between Japan, Korea, South Korea, Australia, right,

753
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:32,959
Speaker 2: I mean, now I know the South I mean, they're

754
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 2: all nervous about China.

755
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:40,399
Speaker 3: Everyone Philippines, like everyone is has banded together, but they

756
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:45,879
Speaker 3: like to there's beef, you know, you know, and.

757
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: The South Koreans and the Japanese are still beefing, right

758
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:48,879
Speaker 1: they are.

759
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 3: It is not it is not going to go away,

760
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,520
Speaker 3: but that does not mean that. And quite frankly, this

761
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:58,480
Speaker 3: is where American leadership is so important, because we're there

762
00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 3: and we're helping to sort of organize all that they

763
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,280
Speaker 3: are in a position to defend themselves and to maintain

764
00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,319
Speaker 3: a role based system around you know, in in the

765
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,440
Speaker 3: Indo Pacific, which has huge ramifications for our economy and

766
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,960
Speaker 3: our national security, but it does. Like right now, what

767
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 3: you need is a president of the United States and

768
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 3: a Defense Department secretary, somebody who's serious. Uh, you know,

769
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 3: and this is this is frustrating that you have somebody

770
00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:33,720
Speaker 3: like Hegseeth leading such a you know, a hugely important

771
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 3: organization increasing the cost to China to mess around with Taiwan.

772
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 3: And at the moment you saw China hanging out with

773
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 3: you know, Russia, that is them saying no.

774
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: No, we see you.

775
00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:53,720
Speaker 3: Uh you know Trump, You're you're you're sort of letting

776
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 3: Putin do what he wants. Is that going to be

777
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,560
Speaker 3: the same for us? And the answer is absolutely not,

778
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,959
Speaker 3: and he has to prove that by pushing Putin back.

779
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 2: One of the dots I connect where I get concerned

780
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 2: about global global conflict.

781
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: In the moment we're in is that when you.

782
00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:17,360
Speaker 2: The last time we were this protectionists in our country,

783
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: it's the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties, and you know, we're.

784
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 1: A far larger economy now.

785
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: Our decisions are affecting the livelihoods of people all over

786
00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 2: the world.

787
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: And you know, when.

788
00:41:32,520 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: We behave with hey, it's us first, everybody else is

789
00:41:37,160 --> 00:41:39,760
Speaker 2: going to say, okay, then we're not in this together

790
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 2: and everything is a zero sum game. I mean, I

791
00:41:42,840 --> 00:41:45,239
Speaker 2: worry that this increases the likelihood of war.

792
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 3: All these terms and it diminishes the connectivity, the connectiveness net. Look,

793
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 3: obviously there is a role for tarisa play. I'm a

794
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,719
Speaker 3: big believer and strategic terarifs where you're you're using it

795
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 3: for a.

796
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 2: Purposeful end to help somebody describe it to me that

797
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 2: the way tariffs should be used is it's it's like

798
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 2: the way police use force.

799
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: It's there. They can use it if they need to.

800
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,759
Speaker 1: We hope we don't, but when we have to, we'll

801
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 1: use it.

802
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: But it is not a strategy to grow the economy,

803
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,600
Speaker 2: just like using force all the time is not a

804
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 2: strategy to protect people.

805
00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, we're still very popular around the

806
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 3: world based on you know, the Pew like data.

807
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 1: Right, they careful of going to the South Soul these days.

808
00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if we're very popular in Soul, but

809
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: with the leaders, they're frustrated.

810
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 3: But you know, and and and obviously the rate on

811
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,319
Speaker 3: the planet didn't help with the numbers, but we're still

812
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 3: much more popular than anyone else.

813
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: I mean, people still like the United States.

814
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 2: They don't like, well, we're the cleanest pair of underwear

815
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,120
Speaker 2: in the in the UH in the Emperor, but it's still.

816
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:05,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like we need somebody who this country

817
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:12,040
Speaker 3: desperately needs, somebody globally who can bring people together to

818
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:16,919
Speaker 3: re establish the kind of global order that has led

819
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 3: to you know, unprecedented you know, peace and unprecedented prosperity,

820
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 3: and somebody who will bring us together, unify us as

821
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 3: a country, which we desperately need to fix the things

822
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 3: that are broken. And at the heart of what's broken

823
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 3: is the swamp, right like, is this rigged system, whether

824
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,520
Speaker 3: it's political, economic like, it's just the super powerful and

825
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 3: the super plugged in get have gotten so much at

826
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 3: the expense of everybody else, and somebody or a group

827
00:43:52,239 --> 00:43:54,879
Speaker 3: of us will have to upend that whole thing.

828
00:43:56,160 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about the future of the

829
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 2: Democratic Party if you at all Kamala Harris the excerpt

830
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 2: from Kamala Harris's book Yet in the Atlantic.

831
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,920
Speaker 1: Did you did so? You're you're you're fresh on that.

832
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: You were among the first I think you were the

833
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 1: first member of Congress. Yeah.

834
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 3: I was one of the first people after the debate

835
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,600
Speaker 3: to say, that's a huge problem. If he doesn't, you know,

836
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 3: if Biden doesn't reverse course and proved that this was

837
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,239
Speaker 3: some sort of anomaly, then then he's got to drop out.

838
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 3: And then I gave him a couple of weeks to

839
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 3: prove that he could reverse course, and he clearly didn't.

840
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,759
Speaker 3: I thought I have more credibility if I gave him,

841
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 3: you know, that time, and you know, and I was

842
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 3: kind of hoping it wasn't anomaly. It clearly wasn't an anomaly.

843
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: Uh.

844
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 3: And I think you know, anyone who did not, you know,

845
00:44:43,040 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 3: say what was obviously true, is going to have a

846
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 3: problem with voters, and so our party, you know, needs it.

847
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 2: And you're in a swing district. I mean, let's yeah,

848
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,720
Speaker 2: you know, and you you won making that case.

849
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: Hey, I'm going to you.

850
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 3: Know, I'm not right making the case on everything, which

851
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 3: is this is one hundred percent how I feel.

852
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:03,759
Speaker 1: I'm just going to tell you, you know what I mean, and.

853
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 3: That people just want that they don't the expectations for

854
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 3: elected officials aren't any different than the elected than the

855
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 3: expectations they have.

856
00:45:11,400 --> 00:45:12,800
Speaker 2: So let me ask you this, why didn't you do

857
00:45:12,840 --> 00:45:15,359
Speaker 2: it sooner? Why not before the debate? I mean, there

858
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 2: was a lot of yeah, and I'm just curious, did

859
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 2: you And.

860
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:20,319
Speaker 1: No, No, it's a good question. I saw him that that,

861
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: you know, I went to the UH. I sat in

862
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: the chamber during that that say the yeah you know,

863
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,279
Speaker 1: and you know, and it was like, which one is real?

864
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,680
Speaker 1: Is the State of the Union Joe Biden?

865
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 3: Or is the UH the debate Joe Biden. That's why

866
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,800
Speaker 3: I said, look, you have a couple of weeks proved

867
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:41,919
Speaker 3: to me that it.

868
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,880
Speaker 1: Was the Union that we're dealing with. State of the

869
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 1: Union Joe Biden.

870
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,359
Speaker 2: And did you feel pressure though not it was did

871
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 2: you feel that there was a collective pressure?

872
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: You know? Kamala Harris called it.

873
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,720
Speaker 2: It's like we were all hypnotized is she said, everybody

874
00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:56,480
Speaker 2: was hypnotized.

875
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: Did you feel that? I knew it was there. I

876
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: didn't feel it.

877
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 3: I mean, I there were these votes that would come

878
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 3: up that would say like, hey, you got to get

879
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 3: serious about the border. I had no problem voting for

880
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 3: those those resolutions that you know, that that that you know,

881
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 3: essentially attacked Biden because I thought I thought they I

882
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,360
Speaker 3: thought they shoot the bed on the border, and so

883
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 3: I had no problem. Yeah, I mean I I watched

884
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:23,480
Speaker 3: what they did.

885
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,840
Speaker 1: To UH Dean Phillips.

886
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 3: But Dean he's voted apology, No, he's yeah, yeah, yeah.

887
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 3: And Dean's a friend. But you know, look, I can

888
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:42,560
Speaker 3: just say this, the Biden situation was a mess. Uh

889
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 3: and uh for those of us who said so, I

890
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 3: think you know, people appreciated that, and those who you know,

891
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 3: stood with him because it was one thing to not

892
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:52,840
Speaker 3: say anything.

893
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: But then there were a bunch of people that were

894
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 1: like and in elected.

895
00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 3: Officials, members in Congress, so like, you know, don't abandon Joe,

896
00:46:59,040 --> 00:46:59,479
Speaker 3: We're back.

897
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:00,520
Speaker 1: We're back in Biden.

898
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,000
Speaker 3: You know, like they're gonna have a hard time with

899
00:47:03,080 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 3: voters in my opinion. But the same is true for

900
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 3: the people who said, I know I'm going sorry, sorry,

901
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 3: you can cut that and say this. The same is

902
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 3: true for people who are like, oh, the economy is great,

903
00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 3: the economy has been broken. Those of us who've been

904
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 3: honest about the economy do better. Those of us who

905
00:47:16,960 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 3: are honest about the border do better. So I just

906
00:47:19,560 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 3: think people want honest leaders. You're going to get redistricted.

907
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: I don't know yet. I gotta go. I know, you do.

908
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:29,359
Speaker 2: I know that was the one that was the one

909
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 2: one thing we didn't get to is the re redistricting.

910
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. You know, we won by ten in

911
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: a very tight district. You know.

912
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 3: I'm not sure they want to, you know, do messing

913
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 3: with with with with us, which which could happen leads

914
00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 3: to a demimander.

915
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: And they could lose multiple seats, So we'll see. I

916
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 1: will leave it there, Greg, I know this was a

917
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,160
Speaker 1: tough time, Congressman. Sorry, I feel like we've know each

918
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:56,440
Speaker 1: other ready. No, and I hope to do this again.

919
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: Thank you you too,