WEBVTT - SYMHC Classics: William Hogarth

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<v Speaker 1>Happy Saturday, everybody. Since William Hogarth got a name drop

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<v Speaker 1>in this week's episode on Gin, we thought we would

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<v Speaker 1>bring our episode on him out for Today's Saturday Classic.

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<v Speaker 1>This one originally came out July Welcome to Stuff You

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<v Speaker 1>Missed in History Class, a production of I Heart Radio. Hello,

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Frying and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Trac V. Wilson, and today we're going to talk about

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<v Speaker 1>an artist. But his story really involves so much more

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<v Speaker 1>than art. It involves satire and social criticism, and it

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<v Speaker 1>even gets into some legislation for artist rights. But one

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<v Speaker 1>thing we should point out is that his satire and

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<v Speaker 1>social criticism was being made in the early seventeen hundreds

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<v Speaker 1>when the society he was criticizing was very different than ours.

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<v Speaker 1>It was debuted in a lot of ways. Yes, so

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<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of things that are viewed very

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<v Speaker 1>differently than we view them. Uh. There is discussion of

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<v Speaker 1>of sex workers in this episode, not any details, but

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<v Speaker 1>they come up in some of his prints, as well

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<v Speaker 1>as some violence, some drug use, things like that come up.

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<v Speaker 1>So just be aware that that's that's in the hopper

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<v Speaker 1>and that it will be again based on on the

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<v Speaker 1>views of England in the seventeen thirties and forties and fifties. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>and especially because our artwork for this one is a

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<v Speaker 1>self portrait of the artist with his dog, and it

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<v Speaker 1>looks so sweet. It looks very sweet. And I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>I could just see teachers saying, hey, this would be

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<v Speaker 1>a great episode to share with the kids. Um, and

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<v Speaker 1>it might be depending on the age of your kids,

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<v Speaker 1>the kids you're thinking of, but you would want still,

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<v Speaker 1>I think to frame it and kind of listen first,

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<v Speaker 1>and uh, decide based on the actual content. But we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to talk about William Hogarth, who was in English

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<v Speaker 1>artist that as I said, uh, you know, his life

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<v Speaker 1>story involves a lot more than just art. William Hogarth

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<v Speaker 1>was born to Richard Hogarth and Anne Gibbons in London, England,

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<v Speaker 1>on November tenth seven. He did have some siblings, although

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<v Speaker 1>the tally's on those siblings very wildly. Uh. Richard Hogarth,

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<v Speaker 1>William's father was a teacher and a classical scholar, and

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<v Speaker 1>while he did have patrons, the family still struggled financially. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Hogarth later in his life would talk about how his

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<v Speaker 1>dad had really been treated very poorly and he ended

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<v Speaker 1>up in deep debts. Some accounts say that his father

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<v Speaker 1>went to debtors prison, but I couldn't find a solid

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<v Speaker 1>verification on that, but that does kind of inform some

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<v Speaker 1>of his work going forward. And despite being the child

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<v Speaker 1>of an educator, though William was pretty disinterested in formal education.

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<v Speaker 1>He was really smart and he was curious, but even

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<v Speaker 1>from a young age, he was more inclined to draw

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<v Speaker 1>the to study texts. But it seemed that his father

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<v Speaker 1>was not exactly sure what to do to help William

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<v Speaker 1>find a path in life that would suit his interests.

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<v Speaker 1>He wasn't against him pursuing art, but he didn't really

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<v Speaker 1>know what to do with it. So William ended up

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<v Speaker 1>looking for an apprenticeship. And this is another time where

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<v Speaker 1>I will say there are some accounts that suggest that

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<v Speaker 1>his father was in debtors prison and he had to

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<v Speaker 1>get the apprenticeship, and others that say that he just

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<v Speaker 1>knew his dad was not going to be much help

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<v Speaker 1>in in finding him a career path, so he went

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<v Speaker 1>and found one himself. At fifteen, he became a silversmith's

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<v Speaker 1>apprentice and he learned engraving skills. But his master in

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<v Speaker 1>this position might have hindered his development by giving him

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<v Speaker 1>a mediocre instruction, and Hogarth, once again, frustrated that his

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<v Speaker 1>mentors guidance was really lacking, opted to seek out information

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<v Speaker 1>about the trade on his own. So he was augmenting

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of weak training that he was getting with

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<v Speaker 1>self guided study, and during his apprenticeship, Hogarth studied the

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<v Speaker 1>world around him as much as his trade. He was

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<v Speaker 1>definitely a fan of all of the various entertainments offered

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<v Speaker 1>by early eighteenth century London, from theaters to body houses

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<v Speaker 1>to coffee houses where intellectuals gathered. He sort of was

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<v Speaker 1>one of those people I always think of as like

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<v Speaker 1>a student of life. He just wanted to go around

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<v Speaker 1>and see people doing all the things that people do

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<v Speaker 1>and learn from that. When Hogarth was twenty three, he

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<v Speaker 1>opened his own shop. In that same year he started

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<v Speaker 1>taking formal drawing classes. But the normal curriculum for drawing lessons,

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<v Speaker 1>which was sketching live models or prepared tableau and attempting

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<v Speaker 1>to replicate other artists work, had the same effect on

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<v Speaker 1>Hogarth as early attempts at his education had. He was

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<v Speaker 1>not interested. We found it frustrating and limiting, and he

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<v Speaker 1>had turned to drawing school to expand the possibilities of

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<v Speaker 1>his engraving work, but he didn't think the classes were

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<v Speaker 1>actually going to help him achieve that goal, and so

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<v Speaker 1>he opted once again to rely on himself for his education,

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<v Speaker 1>and he began to train his observational skills because he

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to be able to draw real life subjects from memory.

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<v Speaker 1>So he developed his own improvisational style over time, and

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<v Speaker 1>simultaneously he was supporting himself through his regular engraving work.

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<v Speaker 1>That work included projects like book illustration, so he was

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<v Speaker 1>getting some practical experience in commercial art, but this was

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<v Speaker 1>not particularly fulfilling. He would later say that the work

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<v Speaker 1>quote did little more than maintain myself and the usual

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<v Speaker 1>gaieties of life, but wasn't all a punctual paymaster. And

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<v Speaker 1>it wasn't long though, before he found himself attracted once

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<v Speaker 1>again to drawing school, but this time it was a

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<v Speaker 1>little different. It was a school housed in the home

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<v Speaker 1>of Sir James Thornhill. Thornhill was an accomplished artist. He

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<v Speaker 1>had been the official history painter in the courts of

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<v Speaker 1>George the First and George the Second, and he had

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<v Speaker 1>been knighted in seventy He was also a member of Parliament.

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<v Speaker 1>He painted in the Italian Baroque style, and Hogarth was

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<v Speaker 1>a and of his work, and part of the appeal

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<v Speaker 1>of studying under Thornhill was the fact that Thornhill had

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<v Speaker 1>achieved a level of social standing that was unusual for

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<v Speaker 1>an artist. He wasn't toiling penniless at the whim of

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<v Speaker 1>a patron, although he was at odds with the neo

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<v Speaker 1>classical revival that was underway at the time. In an

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<v Speaker 1>effort to gain favor with Thornhill and make clear that

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<v Speaker 1>he felt they were of the same mindset regarding art,

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<v Speaker 1>Hogarth even published an engraving at the time titled Masquerades

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<v Speaker 1>and Operas, which was a criticism of the trend to

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<v Speaker 1>embrace foreign art above the art that was actually created

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<v Speaker 1>in England. The engraving features, among other things, a fool

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<v Speaker 1>and a devil leading a crowd into the theater to

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<v Speaker 1>see the latest popular entertainment, while a woman with a

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<v Speaker 1>wheelbarrow carries away all the writings of Congreve, Drieden, Otway,

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<v Speaker 1>Shakespeare and Addison, and below the image is the following inscription,

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<v Speaker 1>could new dumb faustus to reform the age conjure up

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<v Speaker 1>Shakespeare's or Ben Johnson's Ghost. They'd blush for shame to

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<v Speaker 1>see the English stage debauched by fooleryes at so great

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<v Speaker 1>a cost. What would their main say should they behold

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<v Speaker 1>monsters and masquerades, where useful plays adorned the fruitful theater

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<v Speaker 1>of old and rival wits contended for the base. A

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<v Speaker 1>copy of disngraving, which is known as The Bad Taste

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<v Speaker 1>of the Town, was in the British Museum's collection and

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<v Speaker 1>while it's not on display, it is digitized and available

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<v Speaker 1>online and we will be linked in our show notes. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I feel like with all of Hogarth's work, we should

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<v Speaker 1>mention that it's worth going and looking at it for

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<v Speaker 1>yourself because we can describe it, and we will for

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of them describe them. But uh, they're very busy.

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<v Speaker 1>There is a lot going on in every single picture. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's part of his social commentary that he includes things.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's kind of like you will never fully grasp

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<v Speaker 1>all of the sort of intensity of these these very

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<v Speaker 1>very detailed pieces until you actually see them for yourself,

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<v Speaker 1>So I encourage you to go look for them. Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>And publishing masquerades and operas had long term ramifications for

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<v Speaker 1>Hogarth's life and career. So the criticism of England's contemporary

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<v Speaker 1>art and culture scene and the connoisseurs in it, of

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<v Speaker 1>course earned him a number of enemies, and most prominent

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<v Speaker 1>among them was the architect Richard Boyle, who was the

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<v Speaker 1>third Earl of Burlington. He and others would kind of

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<v Speaker 1>have this rivalry with uh Hogarth for the rest of

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<v Speaker 1>his life, and it was not the first time in

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<v Speaker 1>his early career that he would butt heads with art patrons.

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<v Speaker 1>After several years of study with Thornhill, Hogarth believed he

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<v Speaker 1>had learned enough that he should begin a painting career

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<v Speaker 1>in Earnest. One of his first patrons was a tapestry

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<v Speaker 1>maker named Joshua Morris, who had requested a painting from Hogarth,

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<v Speaker 1>and when Hogarth delivered the art, Morris refused to accept it,

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<v Speaker 1>claiming that Hogarth had not finished it and that it

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<v Speaker 1>was apparent that the artist was really an engraver and

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<v Speaker 1>not a professional painter. William Hogarth then sued Morris for

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<v Speaker 1>his money and brought a number of expert witnesses to

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<v Speaker 1>the trial, including Thornhill, to a test that yes, the

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<v Speaker 1>work involved was a complete painting, and that Hogarth should

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<v Speaker 1>be paid the money that he was owed. The court

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<v Speaker 1>found in Hogarth's favor. Yeah, I think this is a

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<v Speaker 1>time when artists were not so willing to really like

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<v Speaker 1>pursue legal action when someone said, oh no, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>want that painting after all, But he did. That will

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<v Speaker 1>come up again in a little bit that he's willing

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<v Speaker 1>to take legal action for his rightful money. Also in

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<v Speaker 1>Segarth painted his first dated painting. Up to this point

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<v Speaker 1>he had produced some plates and other things, but they

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<v Speaker 1>didn't have dates on them. And this is the Beggar's Opera,

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<v Speaker 1>And it was a recreation of a scene from a

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<v Speaker 1>current production of the farctical play. And it was an

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<v Speaker 1>example of just how well he had trained his memory

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<v Speaker 1>to recall detail, because apparently, according to many people, he

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<v Speaker 1>basically perfectly recreated the scene as it had played on

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<v Speaker 1>the stage, even though he had of course gone away

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<v Speaker 1>and painted it later. He actually ended up painting five

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<v Speaker 1>different versions of the scene. Seventeen twenty nine, Hogarth and

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<v Speaker 1>Thornhill's relationship took on a new dimension. William became Thornhill's

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<v Speaker 1>son in law when he and Jane Thornhill eloped and

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<v Speaker 1>in his early career, Hogarth became known for paintings known

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<v Speaker 1>as conversation pieces, and these were portraits of small groups

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<v Speaker 1>of people, depicting them in a casual, informal moment, like

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<v Speaker 1>they're having a light conversation. And these also tended to

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<v Speaker 1>be physically small paintings. And as Hogarth's conversation pieces became popular,

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<v Speaker 1>they did afford him a degree of financial success, but

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<v Speaker 1>he also started to find them really boring to work on,

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<v Speaker 1>and this was in part because each individual piece didn't

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<v Speaker 1>really bring in all that much money. He was a

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<v Speaker 1>very quick worker, but he had to basically keep cranking

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<v Speaker 1>them out at a rapid pace to keep money coming in.

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<v Speaker 1>But even as he continued speedily cranking out these conversation pieces,

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<v Speaker 1>he also worked on other projects for which he had

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<v Speaker 1>greater enthusiasm. And these pieces were humorous, realistic scenes, and

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<v Speaker 1>like masquerades and operas, these works often skewered social trends

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<v Speaker 1>and preached morality. If they had been published as sequential

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<v Speaker 1>art on a page, they would look very similar to

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<v Speaker 1>comics and style, but they came out as full size prints,

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<v Speaker 1>each one taking up an entire page of its own,

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<v Speaker 1>and this was where he truly hit his stride as

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<v Speaker 1>an artist. Yeah, this is really what made him famous,

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<v Speaker 1>uh and what continues to make him sort of an

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<v Speaker 1>important figure in the art world. And he was very

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<v Speaker 1>savvy about the success that started to come with it,

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<v Speaker 1>so much so that it did, as I mentioned, earliterally

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<v Speaker 1>to some legislation. We're going to talk about all of

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<v Speaker 1>that in just a moment, but first we will pause

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<v Speaker 1>and have a little sponsor break. Whereas Hogarth's conversation pieces

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<v Speaker 1>offered him financial stability, his moral satires brought in a

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<v Speaker 1>great deal more money, so much so that he reached

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<v Speaker 1>a point where he really had financial independence. He could

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<v Speaker 1>work on the things that he chose to do, rather

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<v Speaker 1>than depending on commissions or patronage to meet his own

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<v Speaker 1>going financial needs. As prints of Hogress engravings were made

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<v Speaker 1>to sell to a wider audience, he was aware of

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<v Speaker 1>the risk that copycats could plagiarize his work, and that

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<v Speaker 1>is because that had happened to him. He published a

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<v Speaker 1>very popular series called A Harlot's Progress in seventeen thirty three,

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<v Speaker 1>and the six paintings, which were then adapted into plates

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<v Speaker 1>that made up A Harlot's Progress were produced at a

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<v Speaker 1>time when the topic of prostitution and sex workers were

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<v Speaker 1>the focus of a lot of attention in London. In

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<v Speaker 1>the late seventeen twenties and early seventeen thirties, there was

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<v Speaker 1>this effort on the part of city officials to bring

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<v Speaker 1>morality back to London streets by working to eliminate or

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<v Speaker 1>at least reduce the obvious appearance of prostitution. But out

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<v Speaker 1>of the initial vilification of women that this sort of

0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:53.840
<v Speaker 1>charge started, there was this secondary wave of characterization of

0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:56.960
<v Speaker 1>women's sex workers that made them seem more like innocence

0:12:56.960 --> 0:12:59.320
<v Speaker 1>who had been trapped by corruptors. And this was a

0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:02.880
<v Speaker 1>debate that was going on in papers throughout London at

0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:06.800
<v Speaker 1>the time, and Hogarth's engraving told a tale along the

0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:10.040
<v Speaker 1>lines of that second characterization of an innocent who falls

0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:12.720
<v Speaker 1>into this life through no desire of her own to

0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:16.480
<v Speaker 1>pursue it. In the first plate, an innocent young woman

0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:20.160
<v Speaker 1>named Mall hack About arrives in the city from the country,

0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:23.320
<v Speaker 1>thinking she'll make her way in a trade such as dressmaking,

0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:27.800
<v Speaker 1>but she's intercepted by a brothel keeper named Mother Needham,

0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:32.320
<v Speaker 1>who has shown assessing Mall's attributes. And a second plate

0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.640
<v Speaker 1>Mall has become a kept mistress living in luxury, but

0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:38.600
<v Speaker 1>then she's caught cheating on her keeper, and by the

0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.240
<v Speaker 1>third plate, Mall has been cast out by that keeper

0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:43.880
<v Speaker 1>and has become a prostitute on the street. Uh and

0:13:43.960 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 1>in plate four she has been imprisoned for that. In

0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.480
<v Speaker 1>plate five she is once again a free woman, but

0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.920
<v Speaker 1>at this point she has an illegitimate child, and she

0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.560
<v Speaker 1>is dying from a sexually transmitted disease. Plate six is

0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.400
<v Speaker 1>Mall's funeral, attended by women who also work in the

0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:00.960
<v Speaker 1>sex trade, and men who appear to be more interested

0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.080
<v Speaker 1>in taking advantage of those women than in mourning the

0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:07.439
<v Speaker 1>dead person before them Mall. Even the parson in that

0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:09.880
<v Speaker 1>final plate has his hand in the skirt of one

0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:13.440
<v Speaker 1>of the other mourners. Because of the popularity of A.

0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:17.319
<v Speaker 1>Harlot's Progress, fake copies were produced all over London by

0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:21.200
<v Speaker 1>CD printers hoping to cash in on Hogarth's work, and naturally,

0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.600
<v Speaker 1>the artist was incensed so much so that he took

0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.880
<v Speaker 1>legal action. So, of course, it was not really feasible

0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.040
<v Speaker 1>to chase down all of the various printers who had

0:14:30.080 --> 0:14:34.320
<v Speaker 1>been making unlicensed copies of these popular plates. So William Hogarth,

0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 1>along with several other artists, went to Parliament and they

0:14:37.000 --> 0:14:39.479
<v Speaker 1>made a case that their work should be legally protected.

0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:42.560
<v Speaker 1>And after hearing the artists case, a piece of legislation

0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:45.920
<v Speaker 1>called the Engravers Act was introduced in seventeen thirty four

0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:50.240
<v Speaker 1>with language that would protect engravings that featured original designs,

0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:54.160
<v Speaker 1>and it was signed into law on June seventeen thirty five,

0:14:54.360 --> 0:14:57.520
<v Speaker 1>and it became known by the nickname Hogarth's Act. You'll

0:14:57.560 --> 0:15:00.680
<v Speaker 1>sometimes also see it written as Hogarth's Law. While the

0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:04.360
<v Speaker 1>Engravers Act was in legislation but not yet assigned law,

0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:07.920
<v Speaker 1>William Hogarth actually had another series that he was ready

0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.080
<v Speaker 1>to publish, but he was not willing to do so

0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 1>until there were legal protections in place to prevent pirated

0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:18.160
<v Speaker 1>copies from circulating. And in the meantime, Hogarth's mentor and

0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.960
<v Speaker 1>father in law, Thornhill, died in seventeen thirty four, and

0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:25.760
<v Speaker 1>after the loss, Hogarth decided that he would reopen Thornhill's

0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:29.000
<v Speaker 1>drawing school, which had never been a particularly successful venture.

0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Hogarth's version became much more of a salon where artists

0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:37.000
<v Speaker 1>shared ideas and discussed their work. Once the Engravers Act

0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 1>was law, Hogarth released the series he had been withholding,

0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:44.400
<v Speaker 1>titled A Rake's Progress. The series, like A Harlot's Progress,

0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:47.160
<v Speaker 1>was painted an oil first and then adapted as a

0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:51.160
<v Speaker 1>set of print engravings. The rake in this narrative is

0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:54.960
<v Speaker 1>Tom Rakewell, a young man of leisure. In the first scene,

0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:58.120
<v Speaker 1>young Tom has freshly come into his fortune as his

0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:02.560
<v Speaker 1>wealthy and apparently miserly there has died. Tom, wasting no

0:16:02.800 --> 0:16:05.400
<v Speaker 1>time spending his new found money, is being fitted for

0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.120
<v Speaker 1>a fancy new suit while simultaneously paying off a paramore

0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.160
<v Speaker 1>who appears to be pregnant and heartbroken. She will appear

0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:15.240
<v Speaker 1>in later plates as well. In scene too, Tom is

0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:17.840
<v Speaker 1>surrounded in his home by an assortment of people, all

0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.400
<v Speaker 1>vying for his attention in his financial favor. By the

0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:24.080
<v Speaker 1>time the viewer sees Tom and the third scene, he

0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:27.480
<v Speaker 1>has fully descended into a life of debauchery. He's in

0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:30.040
<v Speaker 1>a brothel taking part in an orgy. And this is

0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:34.200
<v Speaker 1>a good time to mention that in Hogarth's works on morality,

0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:38.600
<v Speaker 1>even though sexual situations are conveyed, there's no nudity, but

0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.080
<v Speaker 1>there is the suggestion of it. So to modernize the

0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:45.320
<v Speaker 1>plate three looks like a wild party. It might take

0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:49.400
<v Speaker 1>a moment for the viewer to actually register exactly what's

0:16:49.440 --> 0:16:53.160
<v Speaker 1>going on. Yeah, he's you know, he is taking part

0:16:53.160 --> 0:16:58.040
<v Speaker 1>in this big thing, but it's not overtly portrayed. I mean,

0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.200
<v Speaker 1>once you start seeing the clues and you realize, like, oh,

0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:02.600
<v Speaker 1>people's hands are in each other's clothes and stuff, but

0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:06.600
<v Speaker 1>it's not quite so graphic as you might be envisioning.

0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.159
<v Speaker 1>And in the fourth scene, Tom is about to be

0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:13.720
<v Speaker 1>arrested for the debts that he's accrued in his debaucherous lifestyle,

0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:16.639
<v Speaker 1>when that same young woman from the first plate that

0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:19.360
<v Speaker 1>he bought off steps in and she pays the bailiff

0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.240
<v Speaker 1>all of her money so that she can save him.

0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.439
<v Speaker 1>And in the fifth scene, Tom is getting married, but

0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:27.520
<v Speaker 1>not to that kind young woman who saved him though

0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.200
<v Speaker 1>he had wronged her, but instead to an elderly heiress

0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.600
<v Speaker 1>in the hopes of regaining a fortune in the match.

0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:37.520
<v Speaker 1>The sixth image is a seedy scene. Tom is anna

0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:41.320
<v Speaker 1>gambling den. The room is on fire, but neither Tom

0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.080
<v Speaker 1>nor the other gambler's notice because they are so absorbed

0:17:44.080 --> 0:17:46.639
<v Speaker 1>in the fortunes that they stand to gain or lose.

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Tom appears to be pleading to God for assistance in

0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.280
<v Speaker 1>his bet, and Tom is pictured in Debtor's prison. In

0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:56.920
<v Speaker 1>the seventh image in the series, he has written a

0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.119
<v Speaker 1>play in the hopes of selling it to make some money.

0:17:59.160 --> 0:18:01.959
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of sitting to the side, and his wife

0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.480
<v Speaker 1>is pictured, that same woman that he married for her money,

0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:06.719
<v Speaker 1>but at this point she has gaunt and clearly not

0:18:06.760 --> 0:18:09.960
<v Speaker 1>the wealthy woman she once was. And the final scene

0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 1>shows Tom in the Bethlehem Royal Hospital known colloquially as Bedlam,

0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:17.280
<v Speaker 1>where the insane and impoverished of London were sent, and

0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.280
<v Speaker 1>he is naked at this point save for a ragged

0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:22.720
<v Speaker 1>cloth that straped over him, and a wealthy woman who

0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.719
<v Speaker 1>has come to see the spectacle of Bedlam, looks on.

0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.360
<v Speaker 1>She has paid for admission to come and sort of

0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:33.880
<v Speaker 1>observe the lower creatures in this horrible condition. This particular

0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.080
<v Speaker 1>series was popular when it first appeared, and it's remained

0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:41.280
<v Speaker 1>so in the centuries since. In ninety five, the story

0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 1>of Tom Rakewell was adapted into a ballet, became a

0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.840
<v Speaker 1>film in nineteen forty five, and an opera by Igor

0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:52.159
<v Speaker 1>Stravinsky in nineteen fifty one. The original painting series of

0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:55.119
<v Speaker 1>A Rake's Progress was purchased at auction in eighteen o

0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:59.000
<v Speaker 1>two by the wife architect Sir john Soon. Today they

0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:02.960
<v Speaker 1>are part of the Sir john Son Museum collection. Unfortunately,

0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.080
<v Speaker 1>the original paintings for A Harlot's Progress were lost in

0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.520
<v Speaker 1>a fire in seventeen fifty five. Yeah, and A Rake's Progress.

0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:12.560
<v Speaker 1>There have been even more modern adaptations and other works

0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:14.159
<v Speaker 1>inspired by it, but those are the sort of the

0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:17.159
<v Speaker 1>key points where in the more modern age it suddenly

0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:20.680
<v Speaker 1>had this resurgence of interest. And both of these series

0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:23.040
<v Speaker 1>of works, as well as others that he worked on

0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:25.919
<v Speaker 1>during the seventeen thirties and seventeen forties and some in

0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.879
<v Speaker 1>the seventies fifties, are filled with these details like I

0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:31.120
<v Speaker 1>mentioned before, that add to the story and in some

0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:34.520
<v Speaker 1>cases they make direct social or political commentary. In some

0:19:34.560 --> 0:19:36.600
<v Speaker 1>cases he'll have pieces of art on the walls in

0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.720
<v Speaker 1>the backgrounds that have meaning. And uh, some of the

0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:42.560
<v Speaker 1>people that are depicted as supporting characters in these works

0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:45.520
<v Speaker 1>were actually well known figures of London at the time.

0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes they are cast in roles that make it clear

0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:51.960
<v Speaker 1>that William Hogarth did not think very highly of them.

0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.840
<v Speaker 1>Not long after the release of Our Rake's Progress, Hogarth

0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:57.960
<v Speaker 1>was elected as one of the governors of Britain's oldest hospital,

0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:01.439
<v Speaker 1>Saint Bartholomew's. He can we did to the decor of

0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:05.119
<v Speaker 1>the facility by painting two large pieces for the main staircase,

0:20:05.119 --> 0:20:08.159
<v Speaker 1>which were the historical paintings Pool of Bethesda and the

0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.159
<v Speaker 1>Good Samaritan. Yeah, that hospital was founded, I believe in

0:20:11.160 --> 0:20:13.960
<v Speaker 1>the eleven hundreds. Uh, And we're going to talk about

0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:16.520
<v Speaker 1>the unique legacy of those two paintings there, but first

0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:18.480
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna pause for a word from one of our

0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:31.280
<v Speaker 1>fam sponsors. Those paintings in St. Bartholomew's, which are often

0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:33.679
<v Speaker 1>mistaken for murals because they take up whole walls, but

0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.680
<v Speaker 1>they are in fact canvases, are still in the hospital

0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:39.320
<v Speaker 1>today and they have taken on sort of a unique role.

0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:43.119
<v Speaker 1>In addition to acting as massive decor, the figures in

0:20:43.160 --> 0:20:47.800
<v Speaker 1>those paintings are seven feet tall, so extrapolate from that

0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:50.760
<v Speaker 1>how big like full scenes featuring people that size would be.

0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:53.520
<v Speaker 1>They are also used in a really kind of interesting

0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:57.480
<v Speaker 1>way as teaching tools. It's believed that Hogarth used patients

0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:59.920
<v Speaker 1>from the hospital as his models for the paintings, in

0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:04.800
<v Speaker 1>he captured their illnesses pretty accurately and without exaggeration, and

0:21:04.840 --> 0:21:08.120
<v Speaker 1>as such, the characters in the paintings are sometimes introduced

0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:12.840
<v Speaker 1>as topics of diagnosis discussion with medical students. Hogarth subjects

0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:16.439
<v Speaker 1>display conditions which could be mayetonia, congenita and ricketts and

0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:19.199
<v Speaker 1>syphilis and gout, among others, and so it's kind of

0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:23.360
<v Speaker 1>an interesting way to um test and develop observational skills,

0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:25.800
<v Speaker 1>which I think is just sort of fantastic to go, hey,

0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:27.720
<v Speaker 1>what do you think this person in the painting has.

0:21:28.520 --> 0:21:32.440
<v Speaker 1>While these two large scale historical paintings are not considered

0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:35.560
<v Speaker 1>to be Hogarth's best work, they are an important part

0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.359
<v Speaker 1>of the hospital's history because they are in an active space,

0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:43.040
<v Speaker 1>they need constant upkeep, and his lifetime Hogarth covered the

0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.439
<v Speaker 1>expenses to do so himself. He also requested that the

0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.639
<v Speaker 1>two paintings never be varnished, though at some point that

0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:54.200
<v Speaker 1>request was disregarded repeatedly. During a cleaning of the paintings

0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:58.320
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen thirty seven, layers of varnish were carefully removed,

0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:01.600
<v Speaker 1>and after his work on the same Bartholomew's Staircase project

0:22:01.680 --> 0:22:05.320
<v Speaker 1>was complete, Hogarth turned to more traditional portraiture, and one

0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:07.359
<v Speaker 1>of his first portraits in this period was a painting

0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:11.200
<v Speaker 1>of philanthropist Thomas Corum, which he displayed at an orphan's

0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:14.120
<v Speaker 1>hospital that Coream had founded, and he also convinced other

0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:16.560
<v Speaker 1>artists to donate their work to the hospital when it

0:22:16.800 --> 0:22:20.840
<v Speaker 1>was completed in seventeen forty five. His famous self portrait,

0:22:21.000 --> 0:22:24.480
<v Speaker 1>The Painter and His Pug was created in seventeen forty five,

0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:28.159
<v Speaker 1>and that same year he released another series called Marriage

0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:31.840
<v Speaker 1>a la Mode and the exhibition description of Hogarth's work

0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.000
<v Speaker 1>at the Tate Museum in two thousand and seven, it

0:22:34.080 --> 0:22:38.560
<v Speaker 1>was described as follows, The satirical thrust of Marriage allah

0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:41.879
<v Speaker 1>Mode is as much about patronage, aesthetics, and taste as

0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:44.960
<v Speaker 1>it is about marriage and morals. Over and above the

0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:49.639
<v Speaker 1>title itself, Marriage allah Mode includes Italian and Dutch old masters,

0:22:49.720 --> 0:22:54.240
<v Speaker 1>French portraiture and furnishings, Oriental decorative arts, an Italian castrato

0:22:54.320 --> 0:22:57.960
<v Speaker 1>singer and a French dancing master, a turbined black page boy,

0:22:58.359 --> 0:23:03.480
<v Speaker 1>a masquerade reference, a banjo and an aristocratic toilet, and

0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:08.399
<v Speaker 1>even syphilis, which Lord Squanderfield probably contracted abroad and was

0:23:08.480 --> 0:23:12.679
<v Speaker 1>popularly known as the French pox. Thus his emasculated and

0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:16.200
<v Speaker 1>diseased body is additionally emblematic of the spread of quote

0:23:16.280 --> 0:23:20.760
<v Speaker 1>foreign culture that has infected and weakened British identity, society

0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:23.840
<v Speaker 1>and commerce. And I wanted to include that because they

0:23:23.960 --> 0:23:27.439
<v Speaker 1>so perfectly kind of encapsulated in that one paragraph a

0:23:27.480 --> 0:23:30.560
<v Speaker 1>lot of the way that his his art worked in

0:23:30.640 --> 0:23:32.360
<v Speaker 1>terms of how it would take people down with these

0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:35.520
<v Speaker 1>little subtle clues about uh and not so subtle clues

0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:37.080
<v Speaker 1>about what was going on in the picture and the

0:23:37.080 --> 0:23:40.960
<v Speaker 1>people involved. So the story of marriage ala mode is

0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:43.240
<v Speaker 1>that of an arranged marriage which leads to a life

0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:47.320
<v Speaker 1>of idle distance between the couple involved and extramarital indulgences,

0:23:47.320 --> 0:23:50.680
<v Speaker 1>both in terms of affairs and just debaucherous behavior otherwise,

0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:54.280
<v Speaker 1>including drug use. So for Hogarth, who married for love

0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:56.080
<v Speaker 1>and really seemed to have had a happy match with

0:23:56.200 --> 0:23:59.560
<v Speaker 1>Jane Thornhill, marriage is arranged for financial benefits seemed to

0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:03.280
<v Speaker 1>both loose of Chris and doomed. The late seventeen forties

0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:06.480
<v Speaker 1>and early seventeen fifties saw a shift and Hogart's worth

0:24:06.600 --> 0:24:09.960
<v Speaker 1>back to prince, but they were more basic images intended

0:24:10.000 --> 0:24:13.320
<v Speaker 1>for mass market sales. He didn't start with paintings for

0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:17.000
<v Speaker 1>those prints, but from drawings one of these series, titled

0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:20.240
<v Speaker 1>The Four Stages of Cruelty, is a commentary on how

0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:25.080
<v Speaker 1>unkind children can easily become violent adults. It depicts animal

0:24:25.119 --> 0:24:27.840
<v Speaker 1>abuse in the first plate, and then the main character,

0:24:28.000 --> 0:24:32.720
<v Speaker 1>Tom Nero, becomes progressively more a monster, culminating in m A.

0:24:32.800 --> 0:24:36.320
<v Speaker 1>Cobb final scene in which the hanged Tom is being

0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:40.840
<v Speaker 1>dissected for an anatomy lesson in the surgery. Yeah, that

0:24:40.920 --> 0:24:45.439
<v Speaker 1>was one, I will confess. Uh, there are are debaucherous

0:24:45.480 --> 0:24:48.600
<v Speaker 1>and sometimes unpleasant images in all of his work. That

0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:52.920
<v Speaker 1>series really I found quite troubling. The animal abuse is

0:24:52.960 --> 0:24:56.679
<v Speaker 1>really graphic, and then the things that sort of happened

0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:00.639
<v Speaker 1>as this character becomes more and more of a lost

0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:04.359
<v Speaker 1>person and a violent person are really a little effect

0:25:04.480 --> 0:25:08.040
<v Speaker 1>surprisingly affecting to me for plates um, So if you

0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:10.399
<v Speaker 1>go looking, just know that that's the case. At the

0:25:10.400 --> 0:25:13.479
<v Speaker 1>same time that he was working on these simple morality prints,

0:25:13.640 --> 0:25:17.080
<v Speaker 1>Hogarth was also painting, but he had reached this point

0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:19.239
<v Speaker 1>where he was starting to struggle to finish any of

0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:22.880
<v Speaker 1>his canvases. He actually staged two auctions of his work

0:25:22.920 --> 0:25:26.080
<v Speaker 1>between seventeen forty five and seventeen fifty one, but these

0:25:26.160 --> 0:25:29.280
<v Speaker 1>led to both frustration and embarrassment because they did not

0:25:29.400 --> 0:25:32.320
<v Speaker 1>generate enough interest to really bring in much money. In

0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:36.119
<v Speaker 1>seventeen fifty three, William Hogarth published a book titled The

0:25:36.200 --> 0:25:39.359
<v Speaker 1>Analysis of Beauty, in which he laid out his principles

0:25:39.359 --> 0:25:41.600
<v Speaker 1>of beauty and focused on the impart of what he

0:25:41.680 --> 0:25:45.320
<v Speaker 1>called the line of beauty, an s shaped curve that's

0:25:45.359 --> 0:25:49.040
<v Speaker 1>inherently appealing and exciting to the human eye. The book

0:25:49.160 --> 0:25:53.560
<v Speaker 1>met with mixed reviews and was mocked by his detractors. Yeah,

0:25:53.560 --> 0:25:55.800
<v Speaker 1>as we mentioned earlier, early in his career he made

0:25:55.880 --> 0:25:59.240
<v Speaker 1>enemies and they stayed that way for the rest of

0:25:59.240 --> 0:26:04.000
<v Speaker 1>his life. In seventeen fifty four, Hogarth produced another satirical series.

0:26:04.119 --> 0:26:06.720
<v Speaker 1>This was known as the Election Series, which is a

0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:10.960
<v Speaker 1>critique of electoral corruptions as told through a narrative detailing

0:26:10.960 --> 0:26:14.960
<v Speaker 1>a political race in a fictional town called Guzzledown. And

0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:17.800
<v Speaker 1>this series, which once again began his oil paintings and

0:26:17.840 --> 0:26:20.320
<v Speaker 1>then was made into etchings, so he had had gone

0:26:20.320 --> 0:26:22.880
<v Speaker 1>back to that after he had started doing the quicker drawings.

0:26:22.880 --> 0:26:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Into etchings version skewered both the Tories and the Whigs

0:26:26.920 --> 0:26:30.320
<v Speaker 1>for bribery and corrupt practices, and the first painting in

0:26:30.320 --> 0:26:32.840
<v Speaker 1>the series actually went on display several days before the

0:26:32.880 --> 0:26:36.119
<v Speaker 1>general election that year, at a time when election corruption

0:26:36.200 --> 0:26:39.840
<v Speaker 1>was being discussed in every paper in London. And seventeen

0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:43.840
<v Speaker 1>fifty seven Hogarth became Sergeant painter to King George the Third.

0:26:43.840 --> 0:26:47.320
<v Speaker 1>But despite this prestigious and well paying position, his later

0:26:47.400 --> 0:26:51.120
<v Speaker 1>years were really marked with disappointment. In seventeen fifty nine

0:26:51.160 --> 0:26:54.880
<v Speaker 1>he painted Sigismunda Morning over the Heart of Guiscardo, which

0:26:54.880 --> 0:26:59.280
<v Speaker 1>features the titles heroin holding a goblet containing the heart

0:26:59.480 --> 0:27:03.560
<v Speaker 1>of her husband murdered by her father. The criticism of

0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:06.479
<v Speaker 1>the work was severe and Hogarth did not paint much

0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:10.959
<v Speaker 1>after that. Yeah, there are some write ups of that

0:27:11.000 --> 0:27:13.000
<v Speaker 1>piece saying that he was trying to prove that English

0:27:13.000 --> 0:27:17.000
<v Speaker 1>painters could produce work exactly as good as the Italian masters,

0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:20.879
<v Speaker 1>and that the the reception was more of like a

0:27:21.160 --> 0:27:23.520
<v Speaker 1>m hmmm, I don't think so. Uh. It did not

0:27:23.560 --> 0:27:26.840
<v Speaker 1>go well. And he did make one other political statement

0:27:26.920 --> 0:27:29.960
<v Speaker 1>with his anti war print series titled The Times, which

0:27:30.000 --> 0:27:33.360
<v Speaker 1>he did after that, which made it rather unpopular statement

0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:36.040
<v Speaker 1>in coming out against the Seven Years War. And at

0:27:36.040 --> 0:27:39.080
<v Speaker 1>the time that that series was published, the war had

0:27:39.119 --> 0:27:41.639
<v Speaker 1>not yet ended, so it was like in year six

0:27:41.680 --> 0:27:43.320
<v Speaker 1>and did not have the name the Seven Years War.

0:27:43.400 --> 0:27:46.880
<v Speaker 1>Yet people were outraged by this particular work, and politicians

0:27:46.880 --> 0:27:51.199
<v Speaker 1>who supported the war vogally and publicly criticized Hogarth, and

0:27:51.280 --> 0:27:53.800
<v Speaker 1>it only served to dampen his interest in his work.

0:27:54.440 --> 0:27:58.760
<v Speaker 1>Hogarth's last artistic endeavor was an etching titled The Bathos

0:27:58.840 --> 0:28:01.879
<v Speaker 1>or Manner of Sinking, which was published in March of

0:28:01.960 --> 0:28:05.200
<v Speaker 1>seventeen sixty four. It's often described as having an air

0:28:05.240 --> 0:28:08.720
<v Speaker 1>of doom in it. In it, time is depicted as

0:28:08.720 --> 0:28:12.200
<v Speaker 1>a winged figure, broken and lying prone amid an assortment

0:28:12.240 --> 0:28:16.199
<v Speaker 1>of debris, a puff of air escaping his lips, with

0:28:16.240 --> 0:28:19.959
<v Speaker 1>the word Fini printed on it. The image was intended

0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:22.840
<v Speaker 1>to be the tailpiece for bound collections of his work,

0:28:23.600 --> 0:28:26.360
<v Speaker 1>and when considered in that context, it's a little bit

0:28:26.440 --> 0:28:29.480
<v Speaker 1>less ominous. Yeah, it definitely looks like a death and

0:28:29.520 --> 0:28:32.679
<v Speaker 1>destruction kind of image, but when you consider that it

0:28:32.680 --> 0:28:35.360
<v Speaker 1>would be the end paper of a book where they're

0:28:35.400 --> 0:28:38.000
<v Speaker 1>saying the book has ended, it seems a little less upset.

0:28:38.600 --> 0:28:42.640
<v Speaker 1>But people will sometimes hint that it it was maybe

0:28:42.680 --> 0:28:47.080
<v Speaker 1>important of his upcoming death. Uh So, a few months

0:28:47.160 --> 0:28:50.000
<v Speaker 1>after the Bathos was created, in the summer of seventeen

0:28:50.040 --> 0:28:53.080
<v Speaker 1>sixty four, William Hogarth had a seizure and he remained

0:28:53.160 --> 0:28:55.840
<v Speaker 1>quite ill from that point until his death on October

0:28:56.240 --> 0:28:59.800
<v Speaker 1>seventeen sixty four. And he was sixty seven at that

0:28:59.800 --> 0:29:02.000
<v Speaker 1>point point and had been working as an engraver and

0:29:02.080 --> 0:29:05.840
<v Speaker 1>artist for more than four decades. Today, not only can

0:29:05.880 --> 0:29:08.640
<v Speaker 1>you find Hogarth's works and museums around the world, but

0:29:08.680 --> 0:29:11.120
<v Speaker 1>you can also visit the house he lived in from

0:29:11.160 --> 0:29:14.680
<v Speaker 1>seventeen forty nine until his Death's now a museum, and

0:29:14.720 --> 0:29:18.960
<v Speaker 1>we will link to information about it in the show notes. Yeah,

0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:23.760
<v Speaker 1>William Hogarth, He's fascinating creature. He's one of those artists.

0:29:23.760 --> 0:29:26.560
<v Speaker 1>Like usually I will wax rapsodic about artists and kind

0:29:26.560 --> 0:29:27.880
<v Speaker 1>of fall in love with them. And I was telling

0:29:27.920 --> 0:29:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Tracy before this, I don't know how I feel about him,

0:29:31.160 --> 0:29:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Like if I think he would be a delightful fun

0:29:32.960 --> 0:29:35.080
<v Speaker 1>person or if he might be a crabby stick in

0:29:35.120 --> 0:29:40.040
<v Speaker 1>the mud. I'm not sure. But some of his work

0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:43.480
<v Speaker 1>is really lovely yea. So most art historians and critics

0:29:43.480 --> 0:29:46.600
<v Speaker 1>will say, like if you look at his his satire pieces,

0:29:46.640 --> 0:29:49.200
<v Speaker 1>because of their composition and what he included in, how

0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:52.880
<v Speaker 1>um sort of rich unless they were those are are

0:29:53.080 --> 0:29:55.120
<v Speaker 1>warranted as the things that make him famous. But if

0:29:55.160 --> 0:29:57.760
<v Speaker 1>you just compare like his straight paintings to other painters

0:29:57.800 --> 0:30:02.840
<v Speaker 1>at the time, he's line like not not particularly a

0:30:02.840 --> 0:30:04.680
<v Speaker 1>big standout, and you wouldn't be like, wow, he was

0:30:04.720 --> 0:30:08.560
<v Speaker 1>really amazing. Yeah, I saw some really interesting things that

0:30:08.560 --> 0:30:13.960
<v Speaker 1>were about him trying to make it acceptable for anything

0:30:14.000 --> 0:30:18.200
<v Speaker 1>to be the subject of art instead of just appropriate

0:30:18.240 --> 0:30:21.080
<v Speaker 1>things being the subject of art. Yeah, that a lot

0:30:21.080 --> 0:30:23.840
<v Speaker 1>of that came from that sort of bucking against the

0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:29.040
<v Speaker 1>the established art society in the early seventeen hundreds, that

0:30:29.080 --> 0:30:32.280
<v Speaker 1>he thought like, that's foolish. Nobody should control what should

0:30:32.320 --> 0:30:34.080
<v Speaker 1>be art and what shouldn't be art and what's valid

0:30:34.160 --> 0:30:37.520
<v Speaker 1>art and what is it? Which I completely get behind. Uh,

0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:46.720
<v Speaker 1>But yeah, he's he's an interesting chapel. Thanks so much

0:30:46.720 --> 0:30:49.800
<v Speaker 1>for joining us on this Saturday. Since this episode is

0:30:49.840 --> 0:30:51.840
<v Speaker 1>out of the archive, if you heard an email address

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<v Speaker 1>or a Facebook U r L or something similar over

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0:30:57.200 --> 0:31:00.880
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0:31:01.120 --> 0:31:04.600
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