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Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and fair Weather

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Speaker 1: Friends Media. You Are a Starless. Death is an inevitable

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Speaker 1: part of the human experience, but the way we mark

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Speaker 1: and memorialize people who have passed away can take many forms.

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Speaker 1: One of the most enduring traditions is the obituary, that

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Speaker 1: short form biography chronicling someone's life and death.

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Speaker 2: And the best obituaries are more than just a dry

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Speaker 2: recitation of facts and dates. They use the craft of

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Speaker 2: storytelling to breathe life into the person behind the obituary.

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Speaker 2: They allow us to celebrate people's triumphs, limit their struggles,

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Speaker 2: and find meaning in the legacy they left behind.

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Speaker 3: I'm Katie and I'm Eves.

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Speaker 2: On today, episode Dearly Departed looks for the art of

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Speaker 2: the obituary and share some of the narrative techniques that

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Speaker 2: transform de sombers and offs into compelling and emotionally resident tales.

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Speaker 2: You know, I recently had to write an obituary, and

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Speaker 2: it's a task Like you're already grieving, so you're not

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Speaker 2: in the greatest headspace to write, but you know this

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Speaker 2: is the last story. You got to get it right,

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Speaker 2: or at least you feel the weight of that you know,

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Speaker 2: getting the facts right of course their birthdate and death

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Speaker 2: aid and familiar relationships and everything in between, but also

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Speaker 2: the pressure to write something like really, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: pulling on the heartstrings of something that honors the loved

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Speaker 2: one or you know, the person that died. I know

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Speaker 2: you have experienced writing obituaries.

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Speaker 1: It's an interesting experience. All of the emotions that come

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Speaker 1: with writing an obituary, especially for a close loved one,

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Speaker 1: They're all over the place because, for one, it's like,

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Speaker 1: how do I fit a life into what three hundred words?

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's a short amount of space. How do

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Speaker 1: I fit an entire life, one that I know so well,

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Speaker 1: one that I could talk about for years and years

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Speaker 1: and years unendingly. And also like I want to write

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Speaker 1: this well because I'm a writer, so I'm thinking about

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Speaker 1: the storytelling techniques. I'm thinking about that. But also it's

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Speaker 1: like weird because it's like, who's your audience. It seems

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Speaker 1: like your audience for an obituary is all the people

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Speaker 1: who will be reading it, who may want to reflect

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Speaker 1: on the person's life if they knew them well or

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Speaker 1: if they didn't know them well, so they might be

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Speaker 1: learning and things they might not, they can just remember

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Speaker 1: it fondly. But if it's a loved one, you know,

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Speaker 1: in my case, it was a loved one that I knew. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's like, I'm writing this for myself, really, how do

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Speaker 1: I best represent a person in a short space of time,

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Speaker 1: in a short amount of words. And it's therapeutic in

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Speaker 1: a way because you know how when you write, even

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Speaker 1: if it's something that and not an obituary and you're

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Speaker 1: trying to condense it into a poem or either something

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Speaker 1: that is short, like a short piece, you have to

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Speaker 1: be really precise. It's hyper real. It's the way I

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Speaker 1: think about it when I'm writing short So it's honestly

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Speaker 1: kind of therapeutic and kind of nice to be confined

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Speaker 1: to certain rules to write the obituary when it's about

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Speaker 1: a loved one, because it's like, what are the things

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Speaker 1: that are visually and feelings wise, what are the things

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Speaker 1: that I feel the most right now? What feels like

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Speaker 1: it makes the most sense for me to include what

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Speaker 1: do I want to bring to the forefront right now?

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's a bunch of different feelings for me

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Speaker 1: in different ways.

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Speaker 2: What were some of the best practices as far as

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Speaker 2: writing that you found like worked when crafting the narrative

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Speaker 2: of the obituary.

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Speaker 1: Taking your time and writing from the heart, And that

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Speaker 1: sounds so like kind of like.

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Speaker 2: A I feel like you don't have time though, because

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Speaker 2: if you're writing about a life and it's like the

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Speaker 2: funeral coming.

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Speaker 1: Well, well, let me explain that because it is specific

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Speaker 1: to my experience. Like for me, I was like, I

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Speaker 1: need to write this O bit, I need to write

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Speaker 1: this open, I need to write this O bit. But

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Speaker 1: I was also involved in the planning of the memorial service,

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Speaker 1: and I'm also trying to grieve, and I'm like, I

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Speaker 1: need to write this over. I got to get to it,

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Speaker 1: like I was writing the eulogy on the way to

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Speaker 1: the memorial service. So I know that the obituary is

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Speaker 1: a little different because you have to turn that in early.

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Speaker 1: But I think that the same principles can be applied

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Speaker 1: and just moving a little bit more slowly and taking

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Speaker 1: your time to feel into it, just like you would

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Speaker 1: do with any other writing where you're constrained by time

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Speaker 1: and by space and then write from the heart. Comes

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Speaker 1: from the same way. There are a lot of best

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Speaker 1: standards and practices that I guess you would see if

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Speaker 1: you're looking back on obituaries over the years, this is

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Speaker 1: how you name the people. This is where you start

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Speaker 1: from the beginning, you end at the end. You know,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to do that either. Just write from

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Speaker 1: the heart, because you know, if your audience is other people,

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Speaker 1: then they going to be locked in with you if

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Speaker 1: you're reading it to them, or if they're reading it,

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Speaker 1: you know it's an emotional experience for them too, and

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Speaker 1: you can write that as an emotional experience. But if

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Speaker 1: it's for yourself, then what you need to follow the

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Speaker 1: rules for anyway.

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Speaker 2: You know, have you experienced any family drama around obituaries.

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Speaker 2: I feel like that's like, I don't know if it's

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Speaker 2: a particular black thing, but I only talk to black people,

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Speaker 2: so in my head it's a black thid.

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Speaker 1: Honestly, I feel like everybody gets messy when it comes

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Speaker 1: to death a lot of the time. I don't think

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Speaker 1: that's confined to race. But I haven't had fortunately too

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Speaker 1: much drama around obituaries. Now. My family is big, and

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of children, a lot of cousins,

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Speaker 1: nieces and nephews, aunties, uncles, all that in my family,

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Speaker 1: and so for me, But there was a potential for

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Speaker 1: drama because of what was going to be included family wise,

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Speaker 1: because of the secrets and things people didn't know on

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Speaker 1: all of that that was going to happen in the obituary.

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Speaker 1: That fortunately didn't turn up. When I organized the recent

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Speaker 1: memorial service and wrote the obituary, that didn't happen for me,

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Speaker 1: people were just like, hey, you know, loved it. It

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Speaker 1: was beautiful. Somebody read it for me and that all

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Speaker 1: went fine. So I haven't seen that for anyone else.

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Speaker 1: And I also have never experienced that. What about you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like I would peep it as

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Speaker 2: a kid but not really know the depths of it.

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Speaker 2: But I wouldn't say like complete drama. But you get

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Speaker 2: a little side comments like O, well, you know I

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Speaker 2: did a lot for them too.

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Speaker 3: It's like, girl, no you didn't, you didn't, And that's

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Speaker 3: just what it is.

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Speaker 2: But you know, everybody wants a little shout out, so

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Speaker 2: I think that's like kind of funny. Or if there's

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Speaker 2: like an outside kid, like, oh, how are you going

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Speaker 2: to mention the outside kid? But you know from this

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Speaker 2: union came these kids, and then there's this other kid,

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Speaker 2: like who's that you know, so trying to do some

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Speaker 2: wordsmithing so that the family secret that's not even a secret,

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Speaker 2: but it's just kind of like a little you know,

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Speaker 2: not as wholesome as you would like for the person

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Speaker 2: like how to do that. But I think it's interesting

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Speaker 2: because I feel like, you know, family secrets are something

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Speaker 2: that you know, inches its way into obituaries, and when

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Speaker 2: you're looking back at the obituary, you know, years down

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Speaker 2: the road, decades down the road, the person reading it

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Speaker 2: might not be privy to all the nuances that these

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Speaker 2: little slights of hand are pointing to. And with black people,

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Speaker 2: I think in particular, the obituary is really important for

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Speaker 2: family research because there was a time when you know,

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Speaker 2: we was just names on the inventory list, and you know,

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Speaker 2: you might not have the family researcher who has gone

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Speaker 2: back to Africa, but somebody grandma got the drawer of

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Speaker 2: obituaries and you can kind of piece it together. But

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Speaker 2: when there's these like half truths in there, then it

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Speaker 2: gets a little messy. Have you used obituaries for any

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Speaker 2: family research?

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Speaker 1: I haven't. I've gone back and looked at old obituaries

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Speaker 1: and learned things, but I actually haven't used any for

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Speaker 1: family research. It's been more of just speaking to my

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Speaker 1: family members lately. But I think that's a good idea

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Speaker 1: and I should do it. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I think like people put information in bibles, but I

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Speaker 2: think the obituary is it.

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Speaker 3: It'll give you the rundown, it'll tell you who to

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Speaker 3: mama the daddy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and those are the hardest things to put together sometimes,

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Speaker 1: like the actual family tree, at least for me. You know,

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Speaker 1: my grandmother had eighteen kids on one side. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I got other grandparents, so yeah, that is very helpful.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to keep up now. It just makes me

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Speaker 1: think too that I mean, none of us know when

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Speaker 1: we're going to die, but a part of me does

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Speaker 1: wish that when I was writing that obituaryly I would

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Speaker 1: have been had it done, so when it was time

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Speaker 1: to go, then it's good to go. Like I don't

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Speaker 1: have to think about it, and I know it's ready,

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Speaker 1: although some things might be missing, so it would have

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Speaker 1: to be a I guess put not intended living document

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Speaker 1: because it's something that you have to update as people

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Speaker 1: at more on to their lives. But I don't know,

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Speaker 1: thinking about it, it feels like it would be something

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Speaker 1: that would be feel right to me. And I know

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Speaker 1: people do that for newspapers and magazines, like they pre

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Speaker 1: write obituaries for people of note, but I think that

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Speaker 1: in some cases it could be a worthwhile exercise for

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Speaker 1: US normies as well.

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Speaker 2: Interesting one thing I've noticed with obituaries, like if you

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Speaker 2: look at a bunch of them over the decades, is

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Speaker 2: that they've evolved to include more storytelling. Like back in

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Speaker 2: the day, all facts births, church, education, marriage, children, occupation, death,

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Speaker 2: and no antidotes, no favorite color, nothing. It might not

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Speaker 2: even be a picture, and if there was one, it

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Speaker 2: was just one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now people are putting some flair on it when

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Speaker 1: talking about folks who have passed. When done well, obituaries

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Speaker 1: have the power to make readers feel as though they

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Speaker 1: intimately knew the person being memorialized, despite having never met them.

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Speaker 1: Through finally render details and emotional storytelling, a connection is

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Speaker 1: forged between the writer, the subject, and the reader.

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Speaker 2: After the break, we'll look at obituaries that do just

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Speaker 2: that from the Auburn Avenue Research Library Atlanta Funeral Programs Collection.

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Speaker 1: Stay with us, so tell me more about this Atlanta

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Speaker 1: Funeral Programs collection.

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Speaker 2: Sure, so, Auburn Avenue Research Library partnered with the Atlanta

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Speaker 2: chapter of the Afro American Historical and Genealogical Society. They

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Speaker 2: got a name one him to spearhead a joint project

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Speaker 2: with Georgia Public Library Service to digitize.

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Speaker 3: Over eleven thousand.

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Speaker 2: Pages of funeral programs. And they go from eighteen eighty

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Speaker 2: six to twenty nineteen. I think they're updating it soon,

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Speaker 2: like they've had more people give obituaries, but twenty nineteen

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Speaker 2: is the last publicly available ones.

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Speaker 1: Does the collection include mostly famous people or public figures.

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Speaker 3: Nah, just regular degular folks.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I did see Shoddy Lowe and Julian Bond's

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Speaker 2: obituary in there, but you know, the majority is just

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Speaker 2: regular folks from the South. The thing about obituaries is

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Speaker 2: after the funeral, they're usually put up somewhere and not

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Speaker 2: really examined unless for a very specific reason. So I

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Speaker 2: thought it'd be nice to look through the funeral program's

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Speaker 2: collections and pick a couple that stood out to us.

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Speaker 1: You don't, yes, I am, so what obituary did you

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Speaker 1: pick and why did it stand out to you? So?

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Speaker 2: I picked Keana Shields Bentley's obituary and her unborn child's

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Speaker 2: She was killed while she was pregnant, and that's just

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Speaker 2: like a really sad thing to think about. She was

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Speaker 2: pretty young when she died. She was in school and

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Speaker 2: had just gotten married and just kind of like had

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Speaker 2: her life in front of her.

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Speaker 3: It seemed.

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Speaker 2: But what stood out to me about Keana's obituary is

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Speaker 2: that it's like written in the first person. I was

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Speaker 2: very confused when I first encountered it.

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Speaker 3: It says, hey, three wives, Hey everybody.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure you all have heard a little about me before,

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Speaker 2: but let me formally introduce myself. On September twelfth, nineteen

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Speaker 2: ninety four, I was introduced to my beautiful mother Angela

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Speaker 2: and Shields as her fourth Shining Star of six. So

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Speaker 2: she's like speaking directly to you as you're reading this obituary,

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Speaker 2: and just the tone of it is kind of upbeat,

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Speaker 2: like happy, like you're talking directly to me. I can

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Speaker 2: imagine being a member of her family and feeling very

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Speaker 2: comforted by this obituary.

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Speaker 3: I think the.

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Speaker 2: Person who wrote it probably really knew her well to

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Speaker 2: be able to like step into her shoes and you know,

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Speaker 2: speak about you know, her life, her cheerleading, you know,

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Speaker 2: meeting her husband, deciding the name of her child. I

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Speaker 2: just thought it was like really sweet. And she died

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Speaker 2: in Atlanta, you know, living here, you hear certain things

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Speaker 2: on the news and it's kind of like a passing thing,

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Speaker 2: like oh, this person died this way and it was horrible,

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Speaker 2: but you kind of like don't hear about it anymore.

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Speaker 2: And so I found a lot of those in the collection.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, dang, it's really sad. But hers, it was

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Speaker 2: definitely a sad situation, and you know, young mother and

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Speaker 2: the baby dying, but it's like you could feel her,

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Speaker 2: you know, faith in God through her obituary, her love

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Speaker 2: for her family, just like her personality really really shined.

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Speaker 3: And I like that about this one.

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Speaker 1: When you started reading it, you said you were thrown

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Speaker 1: off by being in first person. So when you started

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Speaker 1: reading it and you were thrown off, were you like,

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Speaker 1: m let me go into a different or were you like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I really need to keep reading this. What was your feeling?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I was confused, so I was like, let me keep

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Speaker 2: reading to make sure I'm understanding what's going on here. So,

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Speaker 2: you know, she does that introduction, she talks about her childhood,

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Speaker 2: where she went to school. She even like talks about

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Speaker 2: her like perfect high pitched voice, like I just felt

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Speaker 2: like I really got to know her, and it had

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Speaker 2: to me as a stranger reading it, kind of less

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Speaker 2: of a barrier. It wasn't as formal, It wasn't somber

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Speaker 2: at all, which is the vibe you get from a

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Speaker 2: lot of obituaries. Rightfully so because the person reading it

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Speaker 2: is sad, and you know, a lot of times funerals

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Speaker 2: are formal occasions. So it's just like really different for me.

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Speaker 2: And you know, it's like a lot of the times

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Speaker 2: when you think about death, you think about like an

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Speaker 2: older person who lived their life, and you know it's

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Speaker 2: still sad, but you're like, okay, this makes sense. But

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Speaker 2: for her, you know, in her twenties, pregnant, about to graduate,

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Speaker 2: it just just doesn't make sense. And so I think

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Speaker 2: doing something a little you know different, you know, fit

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Speaker 2: the spirit of Keana.

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Speaker 1: I'm guessing that her death, since she got young, it

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Speaker 1: was unexpected, yeah something. So do you think it's possible

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Speaker 1: that she could have written this on her own, like

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Speaker 1: just as an exercise at some point? You don't think so.

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Speaker 3: I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: I think just even to like her personality from the obituary.

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Speaker 2: I don't think she was even thinking like that. I

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Speaker 2: think she was thinking about, you know, having her baby,

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Speaker 2: and thinks she was thinking about graduating, starting her career.

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Speaker 2: I don't think she wrote this. It would be really interesting,

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Speaker 2: as like such a young person for her to have

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Speaker 2: done that, but I don't think.

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Speaker 1: So, what do you think? I don't think so. I

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Speaker 1: think somebody else wrote this for her, who know her

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Speaker 1: pretty well. When I saw the three wives and the

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Speaker 1: hey everybody at the beginning out it's black. This is

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Speaker 1: a black obituary, Okay, but I've never seen anything like

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Speaker 1: this before in real life and you know, not reading

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Speaker 1: it online. So I'm trying to think how respond if

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Speaker 1: it was somebody I knew that I was reading, and

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Speaker 1: I think it would be pretty emotional for me, especially

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Speaker 1: if they were passing out the obituaries and I was

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Speaker 1: in the memorial service at the time and I'm reading

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Speaker 1: this as I'm waiting. I imagine there would be those

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Speaker 1: conflicting feelings like this is very sorrowful because this person

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Speaker 1: is gone, and you know, there's a child that's not

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Speaker 1: here now she's gone. I loved her, But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, it's like it's going to brighten me up.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's gonna put a smile on my face

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Speaker 1: because I get to feel a little bit of her

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Speaker 1: personality and her essence when I'm reading it. So I

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Speaker 1: imagine that's pretty comforting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know I said it was Keana's obituary,

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Speaker 2: it was also her unborn child's obituary too, Zariah Keela Bentley,

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Speaker 2: so it was a joint obituary for both of them.

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Speaker 2: And the person wrote that Keana was preceded in death

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Speaker 2: by her beautiful daughter, Zarah Quela Bentley, and they have

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Speaker 2: pictures of the sonogram and a picture of Keana with

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Speaker 2: her pregnant belly.

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Speaker 3: I know you can tell she was truly that girl.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know, just really really fun, god fearing

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Speaker 2: family woman.

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Speaker 1: I'd say, yeah. And I think that one of the

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Speaker 1: last sentences in the obituary is our work and purpose

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Speaker 1: has been fulfilled. Don't mourn for us. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's really indicative of how God was in their lives. Yes,

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Speaker 1: but also in terms of it being an element of storytelling,

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Speaker 1: it's like you're ending in a place that you've given

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Speaker 1: us the set up for that payoff. So the payoff

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Speaker 1: is telling us, don't mourn for us. And you've showed

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Speaker 1: us that through the other paragraphs that come before, because

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Speaker 1: they're celebratory, they're not sad. So you have showed us

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Speaker 1: that we shouldn't mourn for them because they've lived well,

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Speaker 1: because they were love. And now I've read this, I'm

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Speaker 1: at the memorial service. I cherished this person, and I

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Speaker 1: am sad that they are gone, but I see how

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Speaker 1: full their lives were and the time that they did

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Speaker 1: have here. And now you're telling me not to mourn

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Speaker 1: for them. So I'm gonna hold on to that. And

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Speaker 1: now I have this obituary on paper to hold on

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Speaker 1: to that sentiment. Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: And one of the paragraphs, she says, the time of

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Speaker 2: my transition, I was working toward my medical assistant degree.

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Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, my graduation was set for

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Speaker 2: June eleventh, twenty sixteen, which was just I believe, five

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Speaker 2: days before she died. And later she says, I would

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Speaker 2: have loved to celebrate each and every milestone with you guys,

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Speaker 2: but baby girl and I couldn't ignore God's call. But

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Speaker 2: don't worry that angels in heaven presented me with my

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Speaker 2: cap and gown at the Pearly Gates.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, I'm getting excited.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, is not the point of the obituary because she wants.

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Speaker 3: You to be happy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, don't worry for.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 1: I think when you're seeing an obituary full of somebody's life,

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Speaker 1: you want to think, oh, their life was so full,

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Speaker 1: But ironically it often works in the opposite way because

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Speaker 1: you see how full their life was and it makes

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Speaker 1: you imagine, like, what could they have done yea had

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Speaker 1: they been able to stay on this earth for a

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Speaker 1: longer time. And when you see that about the cap

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Speaker 1: and gown, you're like, she had plans. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: she had plans, she had ambitions, she had goals, and

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Speaker 1: she had a child who would have had those same

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Speaker 1: things had they lived as well. So yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: that's what happens with obituary, is too like your intent

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00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,359
Speaker 1: may be one way, or you may have wanted to

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Speaker 1: express yourself one way, but as it goes in storytelling,

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Speaker 1: the way we project isn't the way that people always

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Speaker 1: receive something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the person who wrote it wanted to

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Speaker 2: be comforting, which I do think they accomplished, but it's

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Speaker 2: definitely like a sad situation, but I think they did

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Speaker 2: a good like telling her life story, showing her personality,

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Speaker 2: just like showing the woman that she was, and kind

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Speaker 2: of all that you know will be missed.

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Speaker 1: Yes, miss Keana. I hope that wherever you are, you

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Speaker 1: are peaceful and all your lights able to shine wherever

380
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Speaker 1: you are in prayers and peace to their family as well.

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Speaker 1: So the obituary that I came across is for Joseph

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Speaker 1: Seum Lewis. I hope that I'm pronouncing that right, that

383
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:44,120
Speaker 1: maybe Joseph Sayum Lewis. But he was born in nineteen

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Speaker 1: fifty one and he died in two thousand and eight,

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Speaker 1: and he had his memorial service at the Shrine of

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Speaker 1: the Black Madonna in Atlanta. And I enjoyed his reading

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Speaker 1: his obituary and learning more about his life because I

388
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 1: felt like I just got a sense of who he was.

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Speaker 1: He did have an impact on people in his community.

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Speaker 1: He seemed to be a pretty well respected community member.

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Speaker 1: I like that. In the beginning of the obituary, it

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Speaker 1: says that he was legally named Joseph Derrek Lewis, but

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Speaker 1: he later changed his name and rejected this slave name

394
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,600
Speaker 1: and mentality and there's a lot to a name, you know,

395
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Speaker 1: especially to black people, and I think leading with that

396
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:38,400
Speaker 1: is pretty impactful, just because we see, even just within

397
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 1: something as small as his name, of how much he

398
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 1: changed over the course of his life, and we get

399
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:45,680
Speaker 1: to see a little bit of his perspective, We get

400
00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:50,280
Speaker 1: to learn about his political ideology. You know, what matters

401
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,080
Speaker 1: to a person if the first thing they're talking about

402
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Speaker 1: in the obituary is that they were listed as Negro

403
00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 1: and their birth certificate. So just get to the point

404
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Speaker 1: we know what he was about, and I appreciate it.

405
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,840
Speaker 1: In the obituary, it talks about how he was wrapped

406
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Speaker 1: up in gangs a little bit in his earlier life,

407
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 1: and he went through the juvenile justice system, and then

408
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 1: we get this character introduced. I liked this part of

409
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Speaker 1: it because it feels like when you know you have

410
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Speaker 1: that person who's the one who incites your moment of

411
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: epiphany or your moment of where you really shift something

412
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:29,080
Speaker 1: dramatically and importantly in your life. And that person was

413
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Speaker 1: his mother. They say, after he went through the juvenile

414
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Speaker 1: justice system, his mother came in and sat him down

415
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Speaker 1: and drew a small dot on a piece of paper.

416
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Speaker 1: So they're getting heavy into the imagery here. It's like,

417
00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:44,640
Speaker 1: you know when you pause for a moment when you're

418
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:47,320
Speaker 1: in a narrative, but now we have a scene. So

419
00:21:47,920 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 1: now when you do something like that in storytelling, you're

420
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:52,800
Speaker 1: stopping to create to tell somebody to be in this

421
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:55,359
Speaker 1: moment with you. Because they could have just said, you know,

422
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,719
Speaker 1: she told him this. Instead they said she set him

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Speaker 1: down and drew a small dot on a paper, and

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00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,439
Speaker 1: she explained what he knew was just to die, and

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00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 1: what he didn't know was all the remaining space on

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Speaker 1: the page, which you know, I'm wu and I love

427
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 1: things like this anyway, so I really appreciated that. But

428
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Speaker 1: it shows just how much that moment meant to him.

429
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Speaker 1: And I'm not sure who wrote this obituary if it

430
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Speaker 1: probably wasn't his mother. I mean, I'm not sure if

431
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Speaker 1: she was still alive or not at the time, but

432
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,920
Speaker 1: whoever it was had to have been close to him

433
00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,720
Speaker 1: to know that that moment even happened. And I wonder

434
00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,880
Speaker 1: if it's something that they knew because they were there,

435
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 1: or if it's something that they knew because Joseph C.

436
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: M Lewis told everybody. He's just like, oh, this happened

437
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 1: when my mother told me this, because it was such

438
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: an impactful moment in his life, right, Yeah, you think

439
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:46,359
Speaker 1: it was that one? Yeah, which is beautiful because this

440
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: person is able to be in on a moment and

441
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,600
Speaker 1: understand a moment that was important to the person who

442
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,320
Speaker 1: was deceased. They really are able to step into that

443
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: with them and now translate that into abituary that everybody

444
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 1: else can receive. So I liked that part. And then

445
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 1: that's when the reversal happens. That's when the switch happens.

446
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: In the story of his life, they talk about how

447
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,399
Speaker 1: he enrolled in college and graduated with a degree in

448
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: African history, and how he continued to rely on his

449
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 1: mother's guidance throughout the rest of his life. So they

450
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: narrowed in on this point in time of when we

451
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 1: saw a specific example of guidance that he got from

452
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: his mother, and then they leave us to imagine all

453
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: the other ways that his mother was involved in his life.

454
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:29,679
Speaker 1: But we know that she was. We know that she

455
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: was a big part of it. So I really love

456
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 1: that part of it that really stood out to me.

457
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,120
Speaker 1: He seemed to have a full life. He became known

458
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:41,479
Speaker 1: apparently as the mayor of Atlanta's West End and was

459
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: pretty heavily involved in the community and cared a lot

460
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 1: about uplifting African people. Say so, Yeah, I think this

461
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: is a good example of maybe not you know, maybe

462
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,760
Speaker 1: not first person. Like that's pretty different. That's pretty unique

463
00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 1: in terms of obituator in first person. But it if

464
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, you ain't got those kind of storytelling and

465
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:05,320
Speaker 1: writing chops to be able to have that imagination to

466
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 1: write something like first person, then I think this is

467
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: a different example on the opposite side of the spectrum

468
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: where you can just insert tiny things into an obituary

469
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 1: to you know, make them feel more alive.

470
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:16,920
Speaker 3: Yeah.

471
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 2: And I think the fact that he was a member

472
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 2: of the Shrine of the Black Madonna, it's nice to

473
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 2: see as far as like something being very Atlanta. Yeah,

474
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 2: and you know, I've gone to church services at the

475
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: shrine and that's just like how they are, like all

476
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,000
Speaker 2: of them got different names. Yeah, a lot of them

477
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 2: wear you know, they're African clothes, and but they are

478
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:48,400
Speaker 2: very like helpful people, like they're gonna, you know, see

479
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,679
Speaker 2: that you're visiting and say, oh, sister Mitchell, stand up, We're.

480
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:52,440
Speaker 3: All going to pray for you.

481
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 2: And are really about uplifting African people, you know. So

482
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,240
Speaker 2: it's cool to see, like, you know, that was his

483
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 2: path and also cool to see like the change in

484
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,360
Speaker 2: people because a lot of times we're told like this

485
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:06,280
Speaker 2: is who you are and.

486
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,239
Speaker 3: That's just how you have to be. But as his

487
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 3: story showed, like.

488
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 2: Oh he was doing a little bit gang banking, So

489
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 2: what you can you know, build homes for people and

490
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 2: be a you know, member in the choir and you know,

491
00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:23,320
Speaker 2: be someone that a lot of people are really.

492
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: Gonna like miss and cherish for a long time.

493
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 1: Because they didn't have to mention his early time that

494
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: he spend in gangs or in the justice system at all.

495
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like my family wouldn't have mentioned that.

496
00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: They wouldn't have he was an angel from day one.

497
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, some revisionist history.

498
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, they wouldn't have said that truly, But I think

499
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 2: probably because he wasn't ashamed of it. And I think

500
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 2: that's how you reach people, to like, if you've always

501
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 2: been an angel, ain't nobody reached you know, But you know,

502
00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 2: if you had your vices and you overcame them, it's

503
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 2: easier for people to hear what you saying.

504
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:02,639
Speaker 3: So I do like that they included that.

505
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they didn't linger on it too long. Yeah.

506
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 2: Another thing about obituaries I think is interesting her like

507
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:13,679
Speaker 2: the poems or the Bible verses or quotes that people include.

508
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: I think just like the biography of the person, it

509
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:21,360
Speaker 2: shows their personality. A lot of what quotes that other

510
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: people think really embody them. So his quotes, he has

511
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:30,120
Speaker 2: some quotes on him. Okay, you know he started off

512
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,119
Speaker 2: with an oldie, but goodie, the hunter will always be

513
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 2: the hero until the lion has an historian, which is

514
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,960
Speaker 2: very shard of the black Madonna down. Yes, he also

515
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 2: quotes Malcolm X the Black Man's creed, which I'm assuming

516
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 2: he was not Muslim since he was at the Christian church.

517
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 2: But you know, the black radicalism, it's jumping out, it's

518
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 2: jumping out, and he's jumping out. I think the one

519
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 2: that gets me is to tap into peace because that

520
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 2: generation loves an initialism. Okay, where peace, each letter stands

521
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 2: for something, break it down. He personal commitments. These are

522
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 2: all more than one word, but we gonna rock with it.

523
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. He eliminate negative influences, a a wake up call

524
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 1: to all see conquer fear and ignorance. And E each

525
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:26,160
Speaker 1: of us take a responsibility period. Okay, all good sentiments

526
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: to live by. I think I think I would like

527
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 1: a little bit more information about a wake up call

528
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: to all, but you know, the other ones are pretty

529
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: good guidance.

530
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's just like a little anecdote about him

531
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 2: parking in a handicap spy. He was with his brother

532
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,160
Speaker 2: who was in a wheelchair, and the security card told

533
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 2: him to move because he doesn't have a disabled parking decal,

534
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:59,119
Speaker 2: and he replied, a black man in America is handicap

535
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 2: And he stayed right where he was and she went

536
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 2: back in the store. And just like little things like that.

537
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 2: It's like someone who you know, it's his like great

538
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 2: great great grandchild.

539
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 3: That little story might get lost otherwise.

540
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, that story is very funny to me. I don't

541
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: know the man. That story is pretty funny, but it's

542
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: definitely one of those things where it's like the people

543
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: who are deep into community, they're like thinking about this

544
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: kind of thing all the time. It's like always on

545
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:31,960
Speaker 1: their mind.

546
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:32,199
Speaker 3: You know.

547
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: He's always worried about like black community, black togetherness, and

548
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: black liberation. Like that's what's forefront to me, Like none

549
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: of the things. Nothing else matters, even when you are

550
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,160
Speaker 1: parking near Greenbrier Mall. You know, I think that would

551
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: affect another potentially another black person who might actually need

552
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: the handicap spot.

553
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 3: He was in a wheelchair. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he

554
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 3: just didn't have the white man's paperwork.

555
00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, fair, fair, fair, So yeah, I like that.

556
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: And also another quote that he has in his obituary

557
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: is salvation is a group experience. I wonder if that's

558
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: something that he said a lot, based on what his

559
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: personality seems like it was that he would have said that.

560
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,640
Speaker 1: But it's interesting to think of that in the light

561
00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: of someone's death, because you're talking about salvation and normally,

562
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: if we were thinking about that, and in terms of

563
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,000
Speaker 1: the living, we're thinking about like how we attain liberation

564
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 1: in this realm, and that there is an implication of

565
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: solidarity and you know, community work. But in this case,

566
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: it's like, my people come with me when I go,

567
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 1: and my presence is still here. So I think that's

568
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: a nice sentiment to show.

569
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can tell that he's really popular by his obituary,

570
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: like everyone wants a little little piece of it, give

571
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 2: their memories of him, pictures all good time. And I'm

572
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: sure this tryan sentiment on home. Yes, yes, yeah, I

573
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 2: think both of these obituaries were really nice examples of

574
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 2: storytelling in you know, different ways, but storytelling for the dead.

575
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 2: And it's one of those things that I think you

576
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 2: don't really think about until you have to do it.

577
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 2: So I think it's nice to think about it, to

578
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 2: look at some folks that you don't know, but now

579
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 2: you feel like, you know, I'm a little bit better

580
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,720
Speaker 2: now that you looked at their obituaries.

581
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 3: And girl, I used to do this a lot, read obituaries. Yeah.

582
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 2: It was my coping mechanism after my grandpa died. Oh,

583
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 2: because I like the way they did his obituary and

584
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 2: I was like, this what cho should have did, And

585
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 2: I would go look at obituaries. I thought some really

586
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,600
Speaker 2: good ones. Some people really put their foot in them.

587
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: H I think the thing that I like about both

588
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: of these too is that you can close to us

589
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: and have somebody read these to you, and you gon know,

590
00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: they for black people in different ways. One because of

591
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: the way it was written and in this one because

592
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: of all the things that he did in his lifetime

593
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: were centered.

594
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 3: Yeah.

595
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: So I like that about both of these obituaries.

596
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, those are that's always nice. And now it's time

597
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 2: for word credits, the segment where we give credit to

598
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 2: a person, place, or thing we've encountered during the week eves.

599
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 3: Who are what would you like to give credit to?

600
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: I like to shout out to estheticians, people who are

601
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: willing to get up close and personal with you and

602
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:30,960
Speaker 1: do the kinds of you know, body work. I mean,

603
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: you know, work with your body work, close to people,

604
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 1: be in these intimate situations to help you care for yourselves,

605
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: and then return there being very caring to you in

606
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,440
Speaker 1: whatever way it is, even if it's something that's like cosmetic,

607
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: like painting your nails. You know, I'm used to working

608
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: with people as a yoga teacher, but I just appreciate

609
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: all the estheticians that make my life like a little

610
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: bit better in the ways that they do, and I

611
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,600
Speaker 1: like to give them credit today. Nice.

612
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 2: I'd like to give credit to the prayer warriors. Okay,

613
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 2: I want to give credit to those who have Jesus

614
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 2: on the main line, those who will make you late

615
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 2: for a reservation because they're praying loud, but they feat

616
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,480
Speaker 2: stomping and hands clapping, you know. I think we all

617
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:20,440
Speaker 2: need some prayer sometimes, and the Prayer Warriors they're never

618
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:26,560
Speaker 2: late for prayer, So I appreciate it, and we'll see

619
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 2: y'all next week.

620
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:33,040
Speaker 1: By y'all. Hi. On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio

621
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: and Fairweather Friends Media. This episode was written by Eves

622
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: Jeffco and Katie Mitchell. It was edited and produced by

623
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: Tari Harrison. Follow us on Instagram at on Theme Show.

624
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 1: You can also send us some email at hello at

625
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 1: on Theme dot show. Head to on Theme dot Show

626
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,600
Speaker 1: to check out the show notes for episodes. For more

627
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,320
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628
00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,920
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