WEBVTT - Taser Incorporated | Episode 3 - Defective Pigs 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:03.840 Previously on Taser Incorporated. 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.560 It was just like this incredible amount of paper, right, 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:11.559 We've got this research compendium, all of the research compiled 0:00:11.560 --> 0:00:14.280 that we've done, that other people have done, and every 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:16.360 single one of them says it's completely safe. 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.520 For Taser's Rick Smith sales and profits are skyrocketing, but 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.799 so is another statistic Taser related depths. 0:00:24.160 --> 0:00:26.560 You read the media reports, and they made this weapon 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:29.280 look like people were out there dying left and right. 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.240 Every time an officer used it. It was basically lethal force. 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:37.479 Curtis called me back and he goes, you need to 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:41.120 get here, and I was like, oh my god, you know, 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:42.319 like what is going on. 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:46.839 I didn't pay much attention to it until he froze, 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:54.040 until the look on his face told me that somewhere 0:00:55.200 --> 0:01:07.360 somebody wasn't okay. 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:11.280 My tour guide during my day at Taser International Headquarters 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:14.000 was Steve Tuttle. He's the guy who put his eye 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.200 up to a retinal scanner and let me in the building. 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.160 He had parted blonde hair and wore a tight fitting 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.039 silk blue shirt with Taser stitched in black lettering on 0:01:22.080 --> 0:01:27.480 the collar. Steve was nice, but more importantly, he was confident. 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:31.920 In command. His whole job as vice president of communications 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:34.200 was basically talking to people like me. 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.160 If we didn't have the science and facts on our side, 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.600 we wouldn't be here having this conversation. Would be we 0:01:40.720 --> 0:01:42.440 have it. That's why I'm still here talking to you. 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:44.199 The taser becomes an easy target. 0:01:44.280 --> 0:01:47.200 He explained. There was no connection between the taser and 0:01:47.280 --> 0:01:50.200 any of the hundreds of deaths I'd read about. He 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.200 told me excited delirium was really to blame. 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:57.960 If you see what medical experts are calling excited delirium 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:02.280 when you start seeing sweating profusely, attraction, broken glass, speaking 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:06.720 in tongues, stripping down naked, and freezing weather. In some cases, yeah, 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.240 toxicology is clean, and that's They come back and say, yeah, 0:02:09.280 --> 0:02:11.440 but tox was clean. Well, did you know he was 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.280 supposed to be on medicine? Did you check for that? 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.840 What about excited larrium issues. It's a syndrome. It's a 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:19.520 whole conglomeration of different issues taking place. 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:25.880 I shook Steve's hand and thanked him for his time. 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:31.440 I think we both left confused. Steve didn't seem sure 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:35.040 why I kept pressing him about the taser's safety, and 0:02:35.120 --> 0:02:37.800 I couldn't figure out why Steve didn't have better answers. 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:47.920 This is absolute. Season one, Taser incorporated a story about 0:02:48.000 --> 0:03:43.680 unchecked power. I'm Nick Beredini, Episode three, Defective Pigs. The 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.520 day Bryce was tasered started out like any other Sunday. 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.640 Matt and Stacy Masters had just sat down to watch 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.040 the Chiefs game when they got the call. A cop 0:03:52.080 --> 0:03:55.520 from Independence, the town right next to Kansas City, shot 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:57.760 a taser at their seventeen year old son and he 0:03:57.840 --> 0:04:01.240 wasn't breathing. They showed up to the scene as paramedics 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:04.440 were wheeling him into an ambulance. His eyes were open, 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:09.440 but blank. Bryce's mom, Stacy was in a panic. How 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.800 the hell did this happen? And that's when she spotted 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.160 Timothy Runnels, one of the Independence officers who had stopped 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:18.640 Bryce in his car earlier that summer. 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:22.760 And he's kind of leaned up against his patrol car 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:28.520 like not a care in that fucking world. I needed 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:32.000 him to be like, wow, I really took this too far. 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.479 I needed that from him, and instead I see this 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:45.240 arrogant motherfucker proud of himself, and I wanted, I wanted, 0:04:46.640 --> 0:04:47.480 I don't know what I wanted. 0:04:47.520 --> 0:04:47.760 To do. 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.839 Stacy tried to ride in the ambulance with Bryce, but 0:04:52.920 --> 0:04:53.840 she wasn't allowed to. 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.159 We decided in that moment to just split up. She 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:00.960 took the truck and followed the ambulance to the hospital, 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:04.840 and I kind of stayed behind because I was more 0:05:04.880 --> 0:05:08.360 in the mode of, like, if you're gonna fucking cover 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:10.479 some shit up, I'm gonna sit here and watch you 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.120 cover it up, because I didn't trust that they were 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:18.719 going to not spin it in a way that was 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:20.400 beneficial to the police department. 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:27.920 At the hospital, they wheeled Bryce into the er. 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:33.960 I get right back there, and it's bad. 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:40.960 It's really, really, really bad. Bryce was hooked up to 0:05:41.000 --> 0:05:43.920 a ventilator. One nurse cut his clothes off. 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:45.200 They stuffed ice. 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:49.240 Packs around his body. His chin was split open, dirt 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.680 and asphalt mixed with the dried blood on his badly 0:05:51.720 --> 0:05:55.160 swollen cheek. His skin was pale, and his lips were 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:59.320 still blue. Bryce was convulsing and his body had twisted 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:02.360 itself into a kind of horrifying fetal position. 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:08.360 Like his arms and his legs were like just doing 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:09.479 unnatural things. 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.160 His fingers and toes curled inward, and his arms were 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:14.239 bent toward his chest. 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:17.599 I didn't want to see him do that. I didn't 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:20.400 want to I didn't want to see him moving that way. 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:23.760 It was hard, and I had to look away. I 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:28.040 remember being ashamed of myself because I wanted I wanted 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:30.800 to not see his body doing those things. 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:35.560 A nurse explained that Bryce's position was a sign of 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:40.080 severe brain damage. He needed an MRI immediately so they 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.880 could know just how bad it was. They brought Stacy 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:45.080 out to the waiting room. 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.400 Things were going incredibly, incredibly fast, and also they were 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:53.000 in slow motion, like all at the same time. I 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.000 felt like I was in the twilight zone. And that's 0:06:56.040 --> 0:07:01.480 when I see his shoe. His shoe was on the ground. 0:07:03.240 --> 0:07:05.480 I don't know why I fixated on it, but I did. 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:10.880 She called Matt and she said, you need to get here. 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:14.720 That's when I kind of started learning how bad it was. 0:07:16.680 --> 0:07:19.280 The neurologists pulled them into a private room and explained 0:07:19.320 --> 0:07:22.440 that Bryce had had a cardiac arrest. Given the signs 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:24.840 of brain damage, he was already showing, like the way 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:27.600 his fingers and toes had curled inward toward his chest. 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:31.040 They estimated his heart had been stopped between seven and 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.640 eight minutes. That's how long his brain went without oxygen. 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:39.040 Bryce was seventeen. His body was strong and healthy, so 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.560 if anyone had a shot at a miraculous recovery, it 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.640 would be Bryce. What the doctors would do was lower 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.760 Bryce's body temperature several degrees to slow the blood flow 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.880 that was causing the swelling in his brain. It might 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.040 buy him some time for his brain to heal. 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.760 I really wanted to believe that this cutting edge technology 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.280 was going to make the difference for us. 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.559 They hooked Bryce up to an ivy that ran cold 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:07.800 fluid through his body and covered him with blankets. His 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.800 target body temperature was going to be ninety two point six, 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:15.600 about six degrees below normal. He was going to be very, very. 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:21.280 Cold, which at first it was nice because the convulsing 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:29.480 like he stopped, but then he just shivered the whole time. 0:08:31.320 --> 0:08:33.280 I was probably log snut. 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.360 They had already said, you know that he may never 0:08:38.400 --> 0:08:41.679 come out of this vegetative state. This is what he 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.079 has to look forward to. So it was awful to 0:08:46.120 --> 0:08:50.920 the sounds. I just remember feeling like, do. 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:51.760 I want him to live? 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:58.920 He's trapped in there, what kind of a life? What 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:04.840 do he kind of a quality of existence. He was 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:09.160 just playing a video game. It was just went to 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:09.600 the mall. 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:15.120 You know, I'm honestly thinking to myself that I didn't 0:09:15.200 --> 0:09:18.280 know if I wanted my child to bake it. 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:23.880 I remember going into like their little waiting room and 0:09:24.240 --> 0:09:29.560 just crying and like asking God, you know, I remember saying, 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:33.600 you say some weird shit where you're uh, you know, 0:09:33.920 --> 0:09:36.440 when it matters the most. 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:39.520 Matt and Stacy went out into the waiting room to 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:41.800 catch their breath, but the TV was. 0:09:41.760 --> 0:09:44.760 On breaking news right now. We are following from Independence 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:46.439 the teenagers in critical condition. 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.400 After we've learned police taste, and during a traffic stopper, 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:50.240 you know. 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:54.360 Watching your son's story unfold right there in front of you. 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.920 According to police, Masters wouldn't cooperate and the officer stunned 0:09:59.000 --> 0:09:59.800 him with a taser. 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:01.520 He didn't comply. 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:03.400 He resisted arrest. 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:06.319 What we're told is that police pulled over. 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:09.000 The driver because of an outstanding warrant. 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:12.600 When he had a warrant, you know, the traffic stop, 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.160 you know, and that's when all the questions really started. 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:22.640 For me, a warrant, but Bryce's Grand Prix was registered 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:28.520 to Matt. Resisting rest did Bryce fight a cop? What 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:30.120 caused his cardiac arrest? 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:32.959 I'll be honest, we thought he was on drugs. I 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:34.640 mean that's what What else do you think? 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:38.960 Matt had learned about excited delirium and taser training, and 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.400 as a cop, he'd seen lots of overdoses. Matt and 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.559 Stacey caught Bryce smoking weed, but didn't suspect he was 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:51.360 on any hard drugs. Still, nothing else made sense. Late 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:54.960 that night, the surgeon, doctor Augustine, came in to check 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:55.480 on Bryce. 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:58.880 That was the first thing that came out of our 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.839 mouth was like, what happened? Is he is he high 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:04.480 on drugs? Not Gustin just kind of he kind of 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.240 just matter of fact. They looked as like, oh, no, 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:09.840 he's not on drugs. It was a taser. Taser caused this. 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:14.440 I had no idea that that was even possible. 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:22.120 The surgeon was so confident. In doctor Augustine's world, this 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:26.760 was obvious. But in Matt's world, the cop world, the 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.040 opposite was true. Matt was just as sure the taser 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.800 couldn't cause a cardiac arrest as the surgeon was that 0:11:32.880 --> 0:11:37.960 it could. Now these two worlds were colliding, and Matt 0:11:38.000 --> 0:12:02.400 had to figure out which one was real. Matt didn't 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:05.320 believe the taser could cause a cardiac arrest because he 0:12:05.400 --> 0:12:08.920 thought he understood the weapon. He and other Kansas City 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.000 cops were trained on the taser. They learned how to 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.480 shoot the taser, and they watched a PowerPoint about how 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:17.840 safe the weapon was. It included those videos of tasers 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.920 being used on bulls and information about excited delirium. I've 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:26.200 read every page of every training manual Taser International issued 0:12:26.320 --> 0:12:30.559 between two thousand and twenty fifteen, so I've seen firsthand 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.160 what Matt and every other cop in the country was learning. 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:36.120 And the slide that stands out to me the most 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.200 is one that shows that the taser's electric current is 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:45.960 weaker than a Christmas tree bulb. One reason taser training 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:49.439 sessions are so effective is because they're usually led by cops. 0:12:50.000 --> 0:12:53.679 Instructors follow a company script, but it's cops teaching cops. 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:56.840 Once a cop goes through the training, they can qualify 0:12:56.880 --> 0:13:00.760 to become a master instructor themselves. Remember the work hard, 0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:03.280 Play hard retreats where mike Le and Eco from Oakland 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.600 could get a cigar wrapped or wrestle Hans Morrero. That's 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:11.599 how Mike became a master instructor. When I went to 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:14.120 see Mike at his home near the Smoky Mountains, he 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.679 was retired and drinking his French Press coffee from a 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:19.800 mug that said Leftist tears, and he made us snacks 0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.080 and yeah, fresh banana bread. 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:23.199 I just made it this morning. 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.320 So so this is when Mike casually mentioned his time 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.160 at culinary school before he became a cop. Has anyone 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.599 ever compared you, like like the dose Eki's guy or 0:13:32.679 --> 0:13:37.920 anything like that. As Mike never trained Matt masters, but 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.480 he did train more than a thousand cops just like 0:13:40.520 --> 0:13:44.359 Matt over the years. He told me how important reliability 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:46.680 is when it comes to any weapon a cop carries, 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.880 and Mike believed in the taser's reliability even during the 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.959 height of the criticism and media reports alleging that taser 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:55.400 was killing people. 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:58.280 Because you know, I was seeing officers would come in 0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:01.520 and voice concerns about how, Hey, did you see that 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:06.160 news article somebody got killed by a taser. Impossible can't happen. 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:08.800 We've got a compendium of research. It's three feet tall 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:10.679 in it. No, it can't happen. 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:15.280 Mike was good at training cops. His confidence was contagious, 0:14:15.840 --> 0:14:18.880 so Taser wanted him to become a Senior Master instructor, 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.800 what CEO Rick Smith called the Creme de la creme. 0:14:22.800 --> 0:14:27.720 Unlike most instructors, senior Master instructors were paid by Taser International. 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:31.360 Some of them were given other perks like tropical vacations 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:35.760 or stock options, but Senior Master instructors weren't always transparent 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:40.360 about their ties to the company. When Mike's rep at Taser, 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.400 Jim Halstead, was still a cop out in Chandler, Arizona, 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.960 he became a Senior Master instructor, and one time he 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:50.000 gave a whole presentation about tasers to the Chandler City 0:14:50.040 --> 0:14:53.320 Council in uniform. He told them tasers were like a 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:55.880 weapon from the future, and he urged them to act 0:14:55.920 --> 0:14:58.000 that night to give a Taser to every cop in 0:14:58.040 --> 0:15:02.760 his department. Official were impressed and did approve a purchase 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:05.960 of three hundred tasers for about two hundred thousand dollars 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.720 that night. What they didn't know was that Jim was 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.560 given over a thousand shares of the company's stock as 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:19.640 part of his compensation from Taser. When Mike was approached 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:22.320 to be a Senior Master instructor. He didn't want the 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.960 job because I didn't like the politics involved. What do 0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.480 you mean by the plogist, Well, you know, you were 0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.960 their representative. They would send you to some agency somewhere 0:15:33.520 --> 0:15:35.200 and you were kind of the ambassador to go in 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:37.640 there and talk and get them to buy the product. 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:42.000 Mike didn't want to lose sight of who he really 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:46.360 worked for Oakland taxpayers, and even though he was confident 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:49.080 in his training and the potential of the Taser, Mike 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.000 told me he talked a lot about all these headlines 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.760 that said people were dying. He said he even talked 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:58.200 about it with Jim Halstead after Jim became Taser's VP 0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:03.640 of sales. Mike would bring up news articles and Jim 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.480 reassured Mike that Taser International was constantly doing cutting edge 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:11.040 research to back up its claims. One day, as they 0:16:11.080 --> 0:16:14.600 were talking, Mike just asked, could he actually go see 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:16.160 some of this testing for himself. 0:16:17.000 --> 0:16:19.160 I want to make sure this weapons what they say 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:21.560 it is. And you know, I'll be the first person 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:23.680 outside of the company who's ever been able to attend 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:25.560 one of these things. I said, So, you know, what 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:26.080 is it hurt? 0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:31.160 Tayser execs said sure, Mike was welcome to come check 0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.840 out the company's next test. Soon, Mike got on a 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:38.240 plane to Arizona. He had no idea what he was 0:16:38.240 --> 0:17:06.240 in for. Mike Lenisio signed an NDA and flew down 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:09.600 to Arizona to watch his first company funded test. He 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:12.200 told me he went straight to the test site. It 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.600 wasn't the scene you might expect. Taser International set up 0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.439 a lab near their headquarters at a veterinary clinic. 0:17:19.920 --> 0:17:23.000 We spent the whole day out there with pigs and 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:26.159 in the back of a sweltering hot metal truck in 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:27.359 the Arizona heat. 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.040 The test took place inside a big trailer parked in 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:31.720 the parking lot. 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:35.000 I mean this thing was. It was so hot in there. 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:38.040 We were literally in the sweatbox and we would have 0:17:38.080 --> 0:17:39.800 to take breaks constantly. 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:43.560 Mike told me how he watched as Taser scientists took 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.280 the pigs, sedated them, then laid them out on. 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.960 Tables, basically set up like you would go into surgery. 0:17:52.160 --> 0:17:55.280 This sounds wild, but pigs are often used in medical 0:17:55.320 --> 0:17:59.040 research because their bodies are similar to humans. Mike told 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.280 me the pigs were brawled out on tables in the 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.399 back of the truck. Taser scientists hooked them up to 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:08.359 ventilators to measure their oxygen levels. They stuck electrodes on 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:10.679 their bodies to get a baseline measure of the pigs 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:14.960 heartbeats on an EKG machine. You've probably seen an EKG 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.560 and a TV show. It's got those needles that bounce 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:20.960 back and forth and rhythm with your heartbeat. It's literally 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:24.280 measuring the electric pulses of your heart and waves drawn 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:28.760 on the machine's graph. Mike told me he looked around. 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:31.639 He didn't tell anyone that because he had once been 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:34.720 a paramedic, he knew how to read the beeping machines 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:35.960 and numbers on screens. 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.600 They had no idea of my background, and they had 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.720 no idea that when I walked into that study, I 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.560 knew exactly what I was looking at. He says. 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.399 The taser scientists took the darts from the taser and 0:18:49.440 --> 0:18:52.400 inserted them into different parts of the pig's fuzzy chests. 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:54.719 Then they pressed the taser's trigger. 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:56.760 I was looking at the monitor and like, oh, I 0:18:56.760 --> 0:18:57.600 want to see what happens. 0:18:58.400 --> 0:19:01.120 Mike describes how they shocked the pigs over and over 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:06.480 for hours, taking measurements studying the effects and monitoring for safety. 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.639 From the first shot that I witnessed, I watched the 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:15.760 cardiac monitor go into artifact. That's when Mike says he 0:19:15.840 --> 0:19:19.399 noticed something strange. The electric current from the taser shot 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.760 was interfering with the electric reading on the EKG machine, 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.359 and EKG is sensitive to outside electrical interference. Sometimes led 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:30.159 lights or cell phones can cause the machine to spike, 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:32.920 so imagine the reading during a taser shock. 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:38.720 The needle goes haywire. Taser International's team made absolute statements. 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:42.000 They said the taser could not cause cardiac arrest. 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:47.800 They're making this just concrete statement, but there's no way 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.280 they could know that because while the taser's going off, 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:51.880 you can't read the cardiac Rythough. 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.560 Mike told me that this test wasn't specifically a safety test. 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.679 They were measuring the muscle contractions caused by the taser, 0:20:00.359 --> 0:20:02.480 so Mike figured they probably had a better way of 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.520 measuring heart safety in a different test. At the end 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:10.440 of a sweltering day inside the trailer, Mike says Max Nierheim, 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:13.200 one of Taser's top engineers, took him back to the 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:14.520 airport and. 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:17.000 I said, yeah, you know, if you guys ever have 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.080 another one of these things, I'd sure like to come, 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:21.159 you know, and he, oh, yeah, no problem. So I 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:22.880 just kind of got on their list. 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:25.720 Mike says, every now and then he would get a 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:29.280 call inviting him to another test, and it didn't take 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:31.359 long for things to get really weird. 0:20:33.280 --> 0:20:37.760 One session in particular, we shocked the pig. Well, it 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:39.520 was actually was a series of two shocks. 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:44.240 Mike was back in Arizona watching pigs get shocked with tasers. 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:46.520 He told me it had been a long day and 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.760 he noticed that after so many shocks, this pig was 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:50.760 in really bad shape. 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:53.240 At that point, again, we didn't check a pulse, and 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.640 immediately following that, Max said, well, let's shock it again, 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.720 and so we shocked it again, and this time we 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:02.520 shocked it into a sisterly. 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.840 Mike says, the pig's hearts stopped, it died. 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:13.359 Pig went straight into flat line and then that was 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.120 basically the end of the test. I mean, we were done. 0:21:16.119 --> 0:21:20.679 So you see this pig go into a sisterly, were 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:21.480 you surprised? 0:21:22.000 --> 0:21:25.280 Oh? Absolutely, that's not supposed to happen. I mean cardiac effects. 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:28.520 They told us for years that this doesn't have cardiac effects. 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:32.080 So my first reaction was I saw it, and I said, well, 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:34.440 is that a cistily? And I went over and checked 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:34.720 the pig. 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:39.240 Mike's first thought was that the probes measuring the pig's 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.800 hearts had simply fallen off, but when he realized they 0:21:42.800 --> 0:21:45.560 were still where they were supposed to be, he told me. 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:47.879 He turned to the two taser scientists in charge of 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:48.359 the study. 0:21:49.280 --> 0:21:52.080 I said, that's not supposed to happen, and they just 0:21:52.160 --> 0:21:55.040 kind of chuckled and said, no, no, that happens. We've 0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.399 seen that before. And I was like, what do you 0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:01.040 mean you've seen that before? He says, yeah, that happens, 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:06.080 and I think wow. I said, so, when you publish 0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:12.359 the study associated with this event today, are you going 0:22:12.440 --> 0:22:14.840 to note that the pig was shocked into a sisterly? 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:18.399 And you know, the response was, well, we don't handle 0:22:18.440 --> 0:22:20.320 that end of it. That's not our job. 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:26.639 From Mike's perspective, taser scientists were acting like it was 0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.160 just another day at the office, but he'd read the research. 0:22:30.800 --> 0:22:33.080 He relied on it to train all of the officers 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:37.080 in his department. What he had just witnessed directly contradicted 0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:38.439 everything he'd taught cops. 0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:42.240 It turns out. I went back to work the next day. 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:44.000 I was in my office and I get a phone 0:22:44.000 --> 0:22:47.920 call on my cell and it's Mark Curl, the head. 0:22:47.760 --> 0:22:50.280 Of Taser's Scientific and Medical Advisory Board. 0:22:51.040 --> 0:22:53.320 Hey, how are you doing, Mike? I said, oh, good, good, 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:55.399 What's what's going on? He says, yeah, I understand you 0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:58.760 saw some things yesterday at the study that we might 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:02.680 need to talk about. I said, yeah, it was definitely 0:23:02.720 --> 0:23:07.280 eye opening. And he says, yeah, so what kind of 0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:09.000 concerns do you have? I said, oh, I don't know, 0:23:09.200 --> 0:23:16.600 maybe shocking the pig into a sisterly And he says, yeah, yeah, well, 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:18.600 you know, there's probably a good explanation for that. And 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:20.680 he had like five or six explanations right off the 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:22.800 top of his head, and like he's going down the list. 0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:24.760 He says, yeah, you know, but yeah, it was probably 0:23:24.800 --> 0:23:28.000 a defective pig. That was the first one. And I said, 0:23:28.119 --> 0:23:32.160 a defective pig? I said, what's that? He says, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:34.040 that's well known in research. I mean sometimes you just 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:36.439 get a pig and they're just wired wrong, and you know, 0:23:36.480 --> 0:23:40.680 you shock them when they die. And I said, yeah, okay, Well, 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:43.159 we've been shocking this pig for like six hours. If 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:45.600 he was defective, don't you think he would have gone earlier. 0:23:46.760 --> 0:23:49.240 I remember his response was, well, that's a good yeah, 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:52.439 that's that's a good point, okay. And then he mentioned 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:54.160 another thing, and then he mentioned I don't know three 0:23:54.200 --> 0:23:56.840 or four or five other things, and I remember he 0:23:56.840 --> 0:23:58.040 gets to the end of his list, and I give 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:00.639 him my last explanation as to why that's likely, and 0:24:01.600 --> 0:24:03.520 there was a little silence for a couple of seconds, 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:08.280 and then he says, well, that's all I got. And 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:13.200 I said that's all you've got, Okay. He says, yeah, 0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:15.639 well I gotta get go on boom, hangs up, And 0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:19.080 that was it that made me dig in deeper. 0:24:21.920 --> 0:24:24.320 Mike says he talked to everyone he could on Taser's 0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:25.040 research team. 0:24:25.680 --> 0:24:29.640 How are you addressing this? They initially said, well, cardiac 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:34.439