WEBVTT - From the Vault: The Parrotfish, Part 1 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.039 Hey, you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. This 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:10.520 is Robert Lamb. Today's Saturday, so of course we have 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:12.480 a vault episode for you. This is going to be 0:00:12.520 --> 0:00:16.120 the Parrotfish Part one. It originally published five twenty one, 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:20.120 twenty twenty four. I hope you enjoy. 0:00:21.520 --> 0:00:25.560 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:31.280 --> 0:00:33.160 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.160 My name is Robert Lamb and I am Joe McCormick. 0:00:36.240 --> 0:00:38.720 And today on the podcast we're going to be beginning 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:43.440 a look at parrotfish or parrotfishes. This is one of 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:46.640 those topics that literally just started with me looking at 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:50.120 a picture. I was staring at a picture of a 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:56.240 bizarre goofy, goofy appearing animal and thinking I want to 0:00:56.280 --> 0:00:59.240 know more about this critter, and then discovering that indeed, 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:02.960 this organ is a is a peculiar and fascinating story, 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:05.240 and there is so much more to it than you 0:01:05.319 --> 0:01:08.560 might guess just by looking at it at its strange 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:09.880 beak or toothy mouth. 0:01:10.400 --> 0:01:15.080 Yeah, parrotfish are pretty fascinating. I've snorkeled among the parrotfish 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:19.640 many times and can attest that they're curious looking fish. 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.600 They're pleasure to watch. They're often very colorful. So I'm 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:26.640 going to throw in more of my observations as we proceed. 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:30.400 But I think, on the other hand, in coral reef environments, 0:01:31.080 --> 0:01:33.080 where I've done most of my snorkeling, and where a 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.720 lot of snorkeling takes place, they can actually be easy 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:41.160 to take for granted because they're generally around and you 0:01:41.160 --> 0:01:44.480 know significant numbers that these environments. Often these are protected 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:48.640 reefs that I've been to, they're not particularly shy, they're 0:01:48.640 --> 0:01:52.280 easily found in shallow water, so you know, oftentimes you're 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.000 dealing with like reef environments that are either very accessible 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:58.640 just from the shore or just a very short boat 0:01:58.720 --> 0:02:01.760 ride sort of a situation. So in a way, it's 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:04.280 easy to take them for granted because they're there, you 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:06.360 see them, and then you end up focusing a lot 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.480 more of your attention looking for some of the harder 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:12.519 to find organisms that are going to live in these 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.840 reef environments. So it's actually a great opportunity to stop 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.600 and focus on this remarkable fish that I honestly had 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.480 never really thought about devoting a whole episode or series 0:02:22.480 --> 0:02:24.800 of episodes too. But there's more than enough to talk about. 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:27.520 I've never snorkeled and seen them in person, so I'm 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.400 envious of this experience and maybe I will someday. I 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:33.560 look forward to that. But I've seen video and in 0:02:33.639 --> 0:02:37.720 some cases that there's almost a feeling of like bees 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:41.000 buzzing around a shrub that's covered in flowers. You know, 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.480 it's just kind of the general gentle grazing activity of 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:49.480 some animals surrounding a plant like structure, but in this 0:02:49.560 --> 0:02:52.840 case it's of the big skeleton of stony corals. 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.960 Yeah, the grazing observation is key, and it's something that 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.800 has long been observed for these creatures, as we'll discuss 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.320 going back into ancient times, even when we didn't have 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.160 snorkelers as we think of them today, you still had 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:11.119 individuals fishing in shallow environments, sometimes fishing for the parrotfish 0:03:11.240 --> 0:03:15.560 in question, and observing that, Hey, these creatures appear to 0:03:15.639 --> 0:03:19.399 be grazing, unlike most of the fish that we are observing. 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:24.760 So parrotfish are not one species, but a larger group 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:28.480 of fish containing about ninety something individual species. I've seen 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:31.440 different estimates on the numbers. I think it's older ones 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:34.880 that say, maybe like eighty species. Others say closer to 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:37.200 one hundred, but I think ninety something is about right. 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.760 They range broadly in terms of size and appearance. In fact, 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:45.640 they range broadly in terms of appearance even within a species, 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:48.480 as we'll get to maybe in this part or maybe later, 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.400 but some adult parrotfish are less than a foot in length, 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.040 and some of the largest are almost four feet or 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:57.280 about one point two meters in length, so they can 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:02.200 range from medium small to quite large. These fish are 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:06.640 sometimes taxonomized as a family called scarid and in other 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:11.280 cases regarded as a subfamily of Labridy, which are commonly 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.120 known as the rasses. I think you can see some 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.520 morphological similarities with the fish called rasses, kind of the 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.280 way they swim, the way they use their pectoral fins, 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:23.320 and stuff like that. But a characteristic come into many 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:27.600 parrotfishes is that they tend to live around coral reefs, 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:29.160 especially in the tropics. 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:31.960 I also want to throw in there that there are 0:04:32.040 --> 0:04:36.000 occasionally fish that are just sort of commonly called a 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.359 parrotfish or informally called a parrotfish, that are not parrotfish, 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.560 mainly the blood red parrot chick lid, which apparently is 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:44.960 a popular aquarium species. 0:04:45.160 --> 0:04:45.640 This is not. 0:04:45.640 --> 0:04:49.120 Actually related to proper parrotfish that we're going to be 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:53.240 talking about here today. And I've also seen some some 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:58.120 fossil evidence that is sometimes categorized as a parrotfish in 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.480 a way that I'm not sure actually lines up with 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.479 what we're talking about here. But if you've seen a 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.760 picture of a parrotfish proper parrotfish, indeed, go ahead and 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:08.279 look one up if you're in a position to do so. 0:05:09.640 --> 0:05:12.880 I think it's hard to miss what we're talking about. 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.719 These are very recognizable fish, though again they do very 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:18.159 greatly in coloration. 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.320 Size, that's right. Yeah, So if you look up pictures 0:05:20.360 --> 0:05:23.159 of them, you'll see that they're often kind of elongated 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:27.840 in body. They have different shapes. Some are more kind 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.520 of that elongated oval shape and others are blunter in 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:34.200 the front with like blunt heads. They're in fact, our 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.400 parrotfish called like the blunt head pair of parrotfish or 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:40.880 the steep head parrotfish. The coloration you'll see on them 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.640 depends on some facts about them and not just their species, 0:05:45.440 --> 0:05:49.599 but sometimes they have quite bright patterns of almost neon color, 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:54.080 surprising colors to see in nature. Very you know, tropical 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.039 kind of color signals. There's one picture I kept seeing 0:05:57.080 --> 0:05:59.600 where the fish had a color pattern that reminded me 0:05:59.680 --> 0:06:02.760 of the as design from paper cups in the nineties. 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:05.080 But if you also threw some hot pink in there. 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.960 So there's a lot to take in when you look 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:10.200 at look at a parrot fish. But before you notice 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:12.359 any of that, but you know, the head shape, the 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.440 body shape, the coloration patterns, what you will probably notice 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:20.520 first about any given parrotfish is the mouth. I mean, 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.080 look at these chompers. Rob I've included just several pictures. 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.719 I know you've seen them in person, so your experience 0:06:26.720 --> 0:06:30.920 of the teeth the beak is probably more direct and 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.800 visceral and profound even than mine. But I was just 0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:36.560 looking at these pictures for quite a while the other day, 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:41.440 and my God, that these beaks, these mouths, it's it's incredible. 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:46.520 Yeah, Yeah, their mouths are quite fascinating in some of 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:50.559 the photos. Yeah, they can actually look a little intimidating, though, 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.120 I would say based on the species that I've primarily 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:58.120 been exposed to in Hawaii and the Caribbean, they tend 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:02.279 to look more silly then than threatening. But they're definitely 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.880 very cool looking, not taking anything away from that. 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:07.640 Yeah, So I guess it varies from species to species. 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:13.240 So parrotfish have these rows of fused teeth on the 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.280 outside of their jaws, which, in some cases, as the 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:20.000 name implies, look very similar to the beak of a parrot. 0:07:20.120 --> 0:07:22.920 It can look like a bird's beak, But in other cases, 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:27.280 these fused rows of teeth look like jagged monster jaws, 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:31.080 sort of like a horseshoe shaped ceramic saw blade. But 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.880 in other cases still they are like a big goofy 0:07:34.920 --> 0:07:38.880 cartoon overbite, like Alfred Y Newman's mouth got hit with 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.280 the radiation from the amazing Colossal Man. 0:07:43.080 --> 0:07:44.720 Now I want to throw in one more note here 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:50.680 about species classifications coloration. It is worth noting that with 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:54.760 parrotfish that classifications in naming have long proof challenging because 0:07:54.760 --> 0:07:58.840 they tend to show different colorizations depending on an individual's 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.720 age and sex. So, for example, was pointed out by 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:08.000 the Waikiki Aquarium, the spectacled parrotfish is reddish brown when 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.040 it's a juvenile, then it develops a pale tail spot 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.239 when it becomes a reproductive female, and then develops bright 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.040 blue green coloration. With pink markings when it becomes male. 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:20.720 So you can imagine a lot of the early confusion 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:24.120 at figuring out, well, what is a different species of parrotfish, 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:27.400 and you will have multiple species of parrotfish in a 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.960 given region, and then what is just parrotfish are the 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:33.280 same species that's just in a different phase of its 0:08:33.320 --> 0:08:34.320 life cycle. 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:36.679 That's right. In fact, I was even reading like some 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.120 blog posts by marine biologists who had worked with these 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:44.600 animals firsthand, talking about just how difficult it was sometimes 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:48.280 to identify these fish because of all the variation even 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:52.199 within species. But to come back to the main attraction, 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:56.520 the teeth, the beaks. The crazy thing is, as much 0:08:56.559 --> 0:09:00.480 as these look like biting teeth in some cases, in 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:06.480 reality they are scraping teeth. Because parrotfish are primarily herbivores 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:10.400 for the most part, they do not eat by swimming 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.480 around biting semi circular chunks out of other fish, as 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:16.679 you might imagine just looking at their mouths. They mostly 0:09:16.760 --> 0:09:21.880 eat by grazing along the hard surfaces of coral reefs, 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:26.400 scraping away algae and soft bits of coral and other 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.679 bits of organic matter, along with some hard bits of 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.760 the coral skeletons with their teeth, So that's what the 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:37.320 teeth are for. These are for grazing. These are the 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.080 life of a herbivore, not the life of a predator. 0:09:40.520 --> 0:09:42.920 Now, of course, as this we'll be discussing here. Coral, 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:46.160 of course is hard matter. And one of the crazy 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:49.120 things about snorkeling with parrotfish is that you don't just 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.160 get to watch them, you get to listen to them. 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.880 So as they feast on the algae that's growing on 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.720 the coral, they're scraping the coral, and it's producing a 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:02.120 sound in the snorkeler's ear that I would compare to 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:06.840 kind of a static paper crunching or even the snap 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.120 crackle crunch of rice crispies and milk. It's one of 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.720 those things when when you first explore. When I first 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:16.599 experienced it, I wasn't exactly sure what I was listening to, 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:18.240 because it's kind of like, oh, is there something in 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:20.160 my ears and it's just just the sound of the 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.679 ocean and so forth. But no, it it becomes clear, 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:24.960 and it's often pointed out to one that yeah, this 0:10:25.080 --> 0:10:30.679 is the sound of these the parrotfish feeding, and yeah, 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:33.520 it's pretty remarkable. So you listen to them, you watch them, 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:37.160 and they just become part of the background sound escape 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:38.040 to your snortling. 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:41.040 It's a funny other comparison to bees, almost, you know, 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.160 the way the buzzing of a bee just kind of 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.000 like blends in becomes the ambient sound of a landscape. 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:51.400 The tooth and beak scraping on coral sound produced by 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.520 these animals is maybe comparable to the buzzing of bees. 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:57.760 Yeah, and it's also consistent, like that's the other thing. 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:01.360 They're constantly grazing, and therefore it is a constant soundtrack. 0:11:01.400 --> 0:11:04.959 It's not like say, the occasional sound of a woodpecker 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.360 in a forest, Like it's just NonStop. So it's just 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:09.680 in the background, and you could easily if you didn't 0:11:09.679 --> 0:11:11.640 know what you were listening to, you might not realize 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:13.840 that this is the sound of organisms feeding. 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.840 Now, I think there are probably other people out there 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:18.520 like me, Rob, I don't know if you fall into 0:11:18.520 --> 0:11:23.480 this category of people whose minds are easily captured and 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:28.559 revolted by just imagining kind of tooth trauma. Like I 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.640 very easily can like get a shiver across my whole 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:34.160 body when I imagine, say, trying to bite down on 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:37.559 a rock, And that is what you have to constantly 0:11:37.600 --> 0:11:40.360 imagine when you're thinking about these animals. It's not technically 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:42.280 a rock, though I guess in some cases they do 0:11:42.360 --> 0:11:44.719 scrape rocks as well, but most often it's going to 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.760 be like a rock. It will be the skeletons of 0:11:47.840 --> 0:11:52.120 stony corals. But can you just imagine that, as painful 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.360 as it might be, imagine having to live by like seeing, 0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:58.920 you know, a moss covered rock and thinking I'm going 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:01.880 to use my front teeth to scrape that bad boy clean, 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:03.720 and I'm going to bite off some chunks of the 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.040 rock as I'm getting the moss off of it. Delicious. 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:10.760 Yeah, yeah, it can be a bit squeamish. It can 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.480 make one a bit squamish sometimes imagining these other dental 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:16.680 scenarios in the natural world. 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:18.920 So I want to talk a bit more later about 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:21.679 how parrotfish eat and get their nutrition, and a bit 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.160 more about their teeth. But before we do that, Rob, 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.080 I think you've found some interesting stuff about writings on 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:29.480 parrotfish from the ancient world. Yeah. 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.600 I did, And this was a whole avenue that I 0:12:32.760 --> 0:12:34.880 had not been down. I had no idea this was 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:40.560 a thing. So again, given that species of parrotfish are 0:12:40.559 --> 0:12:44.040 found around the world, and that they can frequently be 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:47.800 found in shallow water, and that they have traditionally been 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.920 caught for culinary purposes for food, it should come as 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.319 no surprise that these fish were known to people so 0:12:54.440 --> 0:12:58.160 the ancient world, you know, even in times when folks 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:02.800 didn't have axe to the underwater world in any way 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.560 comparable to what we have today, they still knew what 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:09.280 these fish were, and in some cases they had some 0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.440 rather insightful ideas about what they were doing. In other cases, 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:18.000 there are some very long standing misconceptions about what parrotfish do. 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:21.560 So in this we're going to actually bring up the 0:13:21.600 --> 0:13:24.760 work of our dear old friend Roman historian Plenty of 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:28.960 the Elder, who is one of several sources of antiquity 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.559 that discusses the parrotfish, you know, and of course there's 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.800 a lot of shared content and so forth going on. 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.600 The fish would have been known as the scars. This 0:13:38.679 --> 0:13:41.199 is of course, now where we get the name of 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:45.520 the genus for parrotfish, and we might assume that in 0:13:45.559 --> 0:13:49.120 particular we're dealing with discussions of the Mediterranean parrotfish, though 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:51.240 based on what I was reading. Also, you had like 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.960 the red sea parrotfish that was also known to various 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.320 cultures of antiquity. So Plenty of the Elder in the 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:03.080 Natural History seventy nine CE rites at the present day 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:07.199 the first place, and this is he's speaking from a 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.800 culinary perspective here. First place at the Roman table is 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:14.280 given to the scars, the only fish that is said 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.040 to ruminate and to feed on grass and not on 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:21.200 other fish. It is most commonly found in the Carpathian Sea, 0:14:21.640 --> 0:14:26.120 and never of its own accord passes lectum a promontory 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:30.400 of trois now. Nineteenth century naturalist George Cuvier and his 0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:34.840 annotations to Plenty points out again that the first place 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:39.040 here is in reference to the Roman dinner table, where 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:43.600 this fish was celebrated for several attributed characteristics that I'll 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.920 get to in a minute, and was also typically quote 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:51.000 salted with the intestines in it. M okay, and some 0:14:51.160 --> 0:14:55.160 Roman authors actually absolutely insisted that you do not eat 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.440 this fish without the intestines included. It's just too delicious 0:14:58.480 --> 0:14:58.880 this way. 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.440 Oh boy, So like, are you saying they would eat 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.200 the intestines directly or it's like you got to leave 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:08.640 the intestines in there to give them meat some flavor. 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.840 You've got to leave them in. Yeah, okay, And I 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.800 know they were often in many cultures salted and then traded, 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.880 So I'm offhand, I'm not entirely sure if this is 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:22.040 a definite case of we're talking about salted parrotfish with 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:25.600 the intestines still in, or some other form of preparing them. 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:28.400 But at any right, they really liked it. There are 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:32.800 also Roman references to eating parrotfish livers as a delicacy. 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:37.040 Mm so all the value here is just for their 0:15:37.080 --> 0:15:39.680 flesh as food. This is a first place distinction that 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.600 would probably not be so flattering to the fish itself, right. 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.720 Right, And the Romans weren't alone in appreciating eating parrotfishes. 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.720 We'll get to some other far flowing examples. Plenty of 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:54.120 humans have eaten parrotfish and still eat parrotfish. The Greeks 0:15:54.160 --> 0:16:00.280 love them. There's some I think twenty species of Mediterranean parrotfish. Again, 0:16:00.320 --> 0:16:04.640 there's the red sea parrotfish, considered a delicacy in antiquity, 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.880 And in both of these cases, I believe they were 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.760 often dried and then widely traded. I've read that in fact, 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.400 they were easily dried. I'm not sure about the particulars 0:16:14.440 --> 0:16:19.520 of that, but I'll take their word on it that, Okay, 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.200 this is a fish that is easier to dry and 0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.720 prepare and then trade across distances. You don't have to 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:30.320 eat it fresh by the seaside. Anyway, it was celebrated 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:32.600 at the Roman table, not just because you ate it 0:16:32.640 --> 0:16:35.760 salted and with the guts in it, but also for 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:39.880 several reasons, according to Cuvier, and I think a lot 0:16:39.960 --> 0:16:41.720 of these seem to get down to the fact that 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.440 I'm assuming the Romans liked a great story at the table. 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.240 You know, it's not just about what the fish smells like, 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:51.400 taste like, looks like on the plate, but also what 0:16:51.480 --> 0:16:53.960 is the story of it, what ideas are wrapped up 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:57.240 in this particular organism. So here that first of all, 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.880 it was thought to be the only ruminating fish. 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:05.240 So so wait, does that mean ruminating as in like 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.600 a like chewing the cud like a cow or a sheep. 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:11.840 Yes, though basically I think what this comes down. First 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.679 of all, they're not truly chewing the cut. They're not 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.040 truly ruminating, you know, they're not chewing something that has 0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:22.840 previously been chewed and swallowed. They are grazing like a cow. 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:25.880 And I think it has to do with observations of 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:29.400 these animals grazing, and it's like, oh, look they're they're 0:17:29.480 --> 0:17:33.960 like a cow. They're ruminating. But still the idea that 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.040 they're ruminating, the idea that they're chewing their cut continues 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.560 to be mentioned all through antiquity on all the way 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:44.520 up through like medieval besty areas those some voices such 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:47.840 as Saint Ambrose in the fourth century said that did 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:50.720 point out the chud the cud chewing thing is not accurate, 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.760 that's not what they're doing. So but but still a 0:17:53.800 --> 0:17:57.280 lot of misinformation about these fish persisted for a very 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:02.560 long time now. As Aristotle also observed in History of Animals, 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:07.360 the parrett fish were thought to be vegetarians, and indeed, 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.840 I guess you could say they're essentially herbivores. Many sources 0:18:11.240 --> 0:18:14.119 will classify them as such, but also note that they're 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:18.119 maybe more more correct to say that they're algavores. But 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.720 still ancient people observe that these fish are not eating 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:23.440 in the same way that other fish are. 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:25.600 Wow, this is something I feel like I should know. 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:27.760 The answer to, but I actually don't what is it called. 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:32.560 If you mostly eat you know, algae or plant things 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:36.840 that are like plants, plants, or types of bacteria microorganisms, 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.840 but sometimes you eat animals. But the animals are not 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.160 like you know, large moving animals, they're you know, basically 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:47.920 small invertebrate animals like corals. 0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:49.600 Yeah, I guess you would be some sort of a 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:53.960 coral war or something to that effect, right, But on 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:56.359 a number of the different fish databases that I was 0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:00.840 looking at, yeah, sometimes they'll say herbivore, sometimes they'll say herbivore, algivore, 0:19:00.880 --> 0:19:03.399 and then sometimes there's kind of an omnivore note as well. 0:19:03.720 --> 0:19:06.120 I guess there's always a margin of error, as we've 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:09.359 discussed here, like even things like a cow, which we 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:12.399 think of is kind of a pure herbivore. There are examples, 0:19:12.480 --> 0:19:14.880 as we've discussed on the show in the past, where 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.320 they have been observed to if meat is available, they 0:19:17.400 --> 0:19:18.560 might eat set meat. 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.160 But it is true that in the cases where parrotfish 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:25.560 are eating animals, they're not generally like chasing after other 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:27.960 fish and eating them or something. I don't know if 0:19:28.000 --> 0:19:30.720 that might happen in some particular case but that's not 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:34.840 generally what parrotfish do. They're mostly going to be eating algae, 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:39.600 and then if they're eating animals, they're like marine invertebrate animals. 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:42.800 Yeah, so I mean we can, I think basically say 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:48.159 that ancient people were correct in this judgment. Now, and 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.080 I guess maybe it made the story at the dinner 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:52.000 table a little more interesting. They're like, this is the 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.600 cow of the sea, that sort of thing. Now, the 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:59.320 third attribute that Kuvia mentions is quote because it had 0:19:59.359 --> 0:20:02.760 the faculty of producing a sound. Now, perhaps I'm not 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:07.359 completely understanding Cuvier's point here, but I guess this is 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:11.200 referring to that constant chewing sound, that constant grazing sound 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:15.119 that one hears if your head is below water with 0:20:15.320 --> 0:20:18.480 the fish. And again, this is not something that I 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.760 would think actually impacts one's enjoyment of dinner. But again, 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:23.040 I guess they liked a good story. 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:25.960 You know, sometimes people they say they want their steak 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:28.320 rare by saying I want it still mooing. It's kind 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:30.760 a kind of a gruesome way to ask for it. 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:32.679 But people do say that. Can you say that, like, 0:20:32.840 --> 0:20:35.600 I want my parrot fish steak rare? I want it 0:20:35.640 --> 0:20:37.160 still scraping, I guess. 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:41.280 So the fourth attribute that he mentions is quote for 0:20:41.359 --> 0:20:44.879 its salacious propensities numbers being taken by means of a 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:48.280 female attached to a string. This, I guess alluding to 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:51.520 a supposed method of catching them. And I suppose the 0:20:51.600 --> 0:20:54.719 Romans just like Randy food, though I'm not sure it 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.320 was actually considered an afrodisiac because I didn't see it 0:20:57.400 --> 0:20:59.959 listed in another source I was looking at that had 0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:02.680 to do with various foods of the Romans did believe 0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:03.720 were aphrodisiacs. 0:21:03.880 --> 0:21:04.760 Uh huh okay. 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:09.680 And then fifthly for its quote remarkable sagacity and affording 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.760 assistance to another when taken in the net. 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:15.320 Huh, Now what would that mean? 0:21:15.800 --> 0:21:20.720 So this is referring to something that is that that 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:23.760 pops up in various old sources as well, and again 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:31.159 continues to persist for centuries. May be particularly referring to 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:35.600 a passage in Ovid. Ovid has the following passage quote, 0:21:36.119 --> 0:21:39.520 the scas is caught by a stratagem beneath the waves, 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:43.840 and it length dreads the bait. Fraught with treachery, it 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.960 dares not strike the osers. This refers to a reed 0:21:47.040 --> 0:21:50.800 basket with an effort of its head, but turning away 0:21:50.880 --> 0:21:54.119 as it loosens the twigs with frequent blows of its tail, 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:58.120 it makes its passage and escapes safely into the deep. Moreover, 0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:02.639 if perchance any kind scarus swimming behind sees it struggling 0:22:03.040 --> 0:22:06.080 with the osures, he takes hold of its tail in 0:22:06.160 --> 0:22:10.040 his mouth and it is thus turned away, and so 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:14.720 it makes its escape. So, okay, they have this idea 0:22:14.920 --> 0:22:22.160 that these fish, these parrotfish, are essentially I don't think 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:24.520 you social would be the term, but they are. They 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:26.760 help each other out. They're capable of some form of 0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:30.160 altruism where if they see another one of their kinds 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:34.440 stuck in one of these wicker basket traps, they will 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:35.560 try and help them out. 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:37.080 Huh. 0:22:37.119 --> 0:22:40.320 And so this idea ends up sticking around for against 0:22:40.320 --> 0:22:44.520 centuries and centuries. The idea that the scais or parrotfish 0:22:44.600 --> 0:22:46.800 is not only a cud chewing herbivore of the sea, 0:22:46.920 --> 0:22:50.560 but also a friendly fish that looks out for it's fellows. 0:22:50.520 --> 0:22:53.600