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Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and

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Speaker 1: Adamized Studios.

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Speaker 2: Food is key to life and to day. More than ever,

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Speaker 2: journalism is also key to life. Our guests, Emily Maitlis

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Speaker 2: and John Sopel, are too brilliant, inspiring journalists who bring

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Speaker 2: us news, analyze news, present news, helping us determine our

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Speaker 2: lives and the choices we make. They are smart, they

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Speaker 2: are warm, they are funny, and they tell me they

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Speaker 2: are always hungry. Emily was lead anchor for the BBC

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Speaker 2: presenter of Newsnight and now produces documentaries. John spent four

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Speaker 2: decades at the BBC as chief political correspondent and its

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Speaker 2: North American editor. A year ago they launched The Newsagents,

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Speaker 2: which is definitely my favorite podcast, well maybe my second favorite.

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Speaker 2: These two journalists crave food. This chef craves journalism. They've

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Speaker 2: just come from the River Cafe pastry kitchen, having made

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Speaker 2: a prune and almond tart, and now we're going to

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Speaker 2: sit down talk about food, memories and more.

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Speaker 3: So lovely.

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Speaker 4: My name's Bella Toobs.

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Speaker 5: I'm the head pater chef at the River Cafe and

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Speaker 5: I'm here with Emily Maitlist and John soapolk.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so we're going to make a prune and almond tart.

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Speaker 2: It's a bit of a how to blue Peter.

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Speaker 5: That's a really useful, usually sad thing to do.

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Speaker 2: Prune and almond tart, which.

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Speaker 1: I had last Friday here and it was sensational. I mean,

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Speaker 1: normally pair on the rare occasions I overcome here, but

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Speaker 1: it was incredible.

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Speaker 5: I think you've already given yourself away.

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Speaker 2: Well so, so you've just made a prune and almond tart.

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Speaker 2: But before we talk about that experience and what you did,

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Speaker 2: would you like to read the recipe for it.

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Speaker 5: Prune and almond tart serves fourteen sixteen prunes stoned, three

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Speaker 5: hundred grams almonds, finally ground, one el grade tea bag,

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Speaker 5: one hundred mills of brandy, three hundred grams of unsalted butter,

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Speaker 5: three hundred grams cast a sugar, three large eggs, one

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Speaker 5: preheated sweet pastry start shell. Pre Heat the oven to

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Speaker 5: one hundred and fifty degrees.

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Speaker 1: Pour enough boiling water over the prunes to cover, then

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Speaker 1: add the tea bag.

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Speaker 5: Leave for one hour. Remove the prunes from the tea,

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Speaker 5: pour the brandy over them.

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Speaker 1: Using an electric mixer. Beat the butter and sugar together

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Speaker 1: until pale and light.

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Speaker 5: Add the ground almonds, Then add the eggs one by one.

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Speaker 1: Finally, add one hundred mills of the brandy prune juices.

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Speaker 5: Pour this mixture into the tart shell. Push the prunes

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Speaker 5: into the mixture, Bake in the preheated oven for forty minutes.

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Speaker 4: Cool and remove from the tin.

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Speaker 2: Brillier. Hi, how about that's a little do it? So

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Speaker 2: tell me about Meggi and what was it like in

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Speaker 2: the pastry kitchen.

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Speaker 1: It was spotlessly clean, It was brilliantly well organized. And

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Speaker 1: the smell when you walk in, of the baking of

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Speaker 1: the breads of Christini, of everything else that's going on

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Speaker 1: in there is just fabulous, and of course the almonds,

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Speaker 1: which just smell so rich and sweet.

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Speaker 5: I was shown a magic trick it actually blew my mind,

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Speaker 5: which was instead of pushing the pastry into the tin,

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Speaker 5: you grate it on a normal sort of greater and

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Speaker 5: you take all the tiny bits and then push them

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Speaker 5: sort of gradually around the back, which apparently makes it

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Speaker 5: finer and shorter and more delicate. And so I'm going

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Speaker 5: to take that away and say this is what I learned.

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Speaker 3: At the river.

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Speaker 1: As well as it being spotlessly clean, I have never

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Speaker 1: seen a greater looking so totally knackered. It has been

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Speaker 1: through so much and it looks absolutely oh my god.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't get a penny for that in a jungle sale.

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Speaker 1: But it's obviously still doing its job.

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Speaker 2: Much times are harder than we're saving up for a

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Speaker 2: greater But actually you do get a kind of sentimental

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Speaker 2: attachment to certain things that you use in the kitchen.

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Speaker 5: I don't know if you do, but I'm a spatchelor

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Speaker 5: girl here is so if somebody gives me the wrong

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Speaker 5: kind of spatulor I have favorites in My favorite is

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Speaker 5: the purple spatulate.

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Speaker 2: Tell us about the Verbel spatu.

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Speaker 5: It's just it just fits your hand right, It's that's

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Speaker 5: the point. There's nothing special about it. It's it's not unique.

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Speaker 5: It's just that it's it's become part of it's I

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Speaker 5: feel like Edwards's hands, but with spatchul it's the extension

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Speaker 5: of my arm.

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Speaker 2: Now do you have kitchen equipment when you've inherited from

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Speaker 2: your family?

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Speaker 1: There was a kitchen knife that has been so sharpened

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Speaker 1: that it bows because there's so little of it left.

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Speaker 1: And that was my mother's favorite kitchen knife, and she

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Speaker 1: had it since she was a girl.

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Speaker 4: And I mean, unfortunately, it's kind of it met.

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Speaker 1: Its end because there was just nothing left of it

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Speaker 1: because it had been sharpened so many times over the

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Speaker 1: years that it had been filed down.

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Speaker 3: Have you got it above the fireplace.

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Speaker 4: Exactly?

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Speaker 2: Do you have one that was handed down?

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Speaker 5: Not? Really, No. I think it's more the practices of

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Speaker 5: my mum was my big is my big inspiration actually

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Speaker 5: in terms of cooking. And it's more the way she

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Speaker 5: does things and the way she talks to herself as

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Speaker 5: she cooks that I do now and I think I

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Speaker 5: pass on to my children.

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Speaker 2: Did you cook with her always?

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Speaker 1: Yea?

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Speaker 2: And did she work or did she come home and cook?

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Speaker 5: She worked a lot at home, so she did a

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Speaker 5: lot of her work at home. And I remember the

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Speaker 5: rituals actually of her cooking and just how.

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Speaker 3: I mean, she was very funny. She was always ahead

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Speaker 3: of the curve. I say she was.

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Speaker 5: She's very much alive and we'll be listening to this,

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Speaker 5: but she was. I think she was quite ahead of

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Speaker 5: the curve and the kind of ingredients that she used

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Speaker 5: and the kind of things that she made, and occasionally

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Speaker 5: she'd go into obsessions. So she had an obsession about

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Speaker 5: an Indian dessert called gullub Jarman, and she decided she

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Speaker 5: had to perfect it, and instead of making it once,

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Speaker 5: she made it like every day for about six weeks

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Speaker 5: until we were just begging her to stop. But she

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Speaker 5: also taught me my sort of Yeah, the recipes that

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Speaker 5: I that I've passed down now that I've taken on she.

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Speaker 2: Cooked, You have them in her writing? Did she write them?

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Speaker 5: She has all her recipes still. And funny you say that,

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Speaker 5: But I've just done a cookbook for my son. He

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Speaker 5: went off to university last year, and I did that

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Speaker 5: really embarrassing mother thing.

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Speaker 3: Where I took pictures of all the dishes.

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Speaker 5: That I thought he'd miss, and I wrote all the

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Speaker 5: recipes out and I put it all together for him.

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Speaker 5: And then I saw his room, and of course there's

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Speaker 5: like one burner and a mini fridge, and he just

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Speaker 5: looked at me and is like, I'm never ever going

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Speaker 5: to cook any of that stuff in here.

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Speaker 3: You know that, don't you know that he will? But

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Speaker 3: one day he.

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Speaker 2: Will a lot of grand This cook book with grandmother's recipes,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people do people.

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Speaker 5: It was always a roller decks a little That's what

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Speaker 5: my mum keeps it. And every recipe is like do.

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Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 5: Like a little square thing and it's all in her rising.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, very similar story. My mother worked and she'd had

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Speaker 1: polio as a child and so was left pretty badly

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Speaker 1: disabled by it. And I used to go and meet

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Speaker 1: her from the tube station to carry the shopping home

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Speaker 1: because she would bring the shopping home and then she

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Speaker 1: would cook the dinner and I think, probably like Emily's mum,

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Speaker 1: you know, presentation of it was kind of really important.

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Speaker 1: She loved food to look appetizing as well as to

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Speaker 1: taste appetizing. So it was fun just doing the pastry

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Speaker 1: where I was having to put the prunes on the

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Speaker 1: tart and to make it look neat, And that was

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Speaker 1: the sort of thing that I did at home. And

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Speaker 1: also my mother loved cooking and loved handing the recipes down,

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Speaker 1: and funnily enough, she died about fifteen years ago. My

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Speaker 1: second cousin sent me on WhatsApp a photo of a

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Speaker 1: recipe that my mother had written out for her for passover,

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Speaker 1: and there it was, you know, my mum's handwriting, and

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Speaker 1: I suddenly got this whatsapped message and all those things

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Speaker 1: bring back such memories of childhood and growing up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I found that. The other thing it's interesting is

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Speaker 2: how many people talk almost more, maybe not the two

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Speaker 2: of you, but more about their grandmother's cooking than their mothers.

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Speaker 5: My grandmother was. She had certain key recipes that she

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Speaker 5: would repeat. One was Locktion pudding. I haven't met anyone

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Speaker 5: since then that does Locktion pudding, which is literally it's

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Speaker 5: like noodles. It's a pasta dessert and it's kind of

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Speaker 5: pasta and cream and raisins and more cream. I think

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Speaker 5: it's probably the heaviest thing in the entire world, and

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Speaker 5: it's got a crispy top. I've literally never seen on

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Speaker 5: the menu, but it must just be the most.

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Speaker 1: So my mother was, I mean, my mother had an

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Speaker 1: extraordinary life story. She was illegitimate child in the Northeast

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Speaker 1: to a Russian Jewish family and had to escape because

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Speaker 1: of the shame that had been brought to the family.

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Speaker 1: And she ends up in a farming community in East Anglia,

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Speaker 1: which you know, which was Protestant, and so she kind

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Speaker 1: of grew up making suet pudding and Yorkshire puddings and

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Speaker 1: all the rest of the kind of English cookbook if

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Speaker 1: you want. When I was going up until I was

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Speaker 1: a sort of teenager, you had to be home Friday,

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Speaker 1: even Friday night, Friday night, can the bread, the wine,

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Speaker 1: all the rest of it, and then we'd eat non

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Speaker 1: kashy food and we just thought that was perfectly normal.

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Speaker 5: I mean, my mother would not dream of cooking pork,

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Speaker 5: but would have plenty of palmer Ham.

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Speaker 4: English rose.

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Speaker 5: Pork wouldn't be anywhere near the table. I don't remember

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Speaker 5: her ever doing that, but if it was palmham or prawn,

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Speaker 5: so that would be fo.

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Speaker 2: Food and tradition and memories and family and Friday nights.

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Speaker 2: Did you reject having to stay home on a Friday

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Speaker 2: night when you could be out partying.

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Speaker 1: I think by the time I got to sixteen, it

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Speaker 1: got a bit kind of I'm sorry, I'm going out

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Speaker 1: and going to the pub, you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so I started to bell at that stage.

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Speaker 1: But I love the idea of at least one night

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Speaker 1: a week, the family coming together and everyone sitting around

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Speaker 1: the table. Maybe not always getting on brilliantly, but there

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Speaker 1: is a kind of sense that this is what we

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Speaker 1: do as a fact do you do it?

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Speaker 2: And now your generation, do you deal with your kids?

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Speaker 2: Do you deal with yours?

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Speaker 1: I mean might have grown up, but when we can, Yes,

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Speaker 1: we do. I mean normally Sunday evenings actually because everyone's

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Speaker 1: got it's either a school day or work day the

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Speaker 1: next and you just kind of, you know, that's the

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Speaker 1: I like.

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Speaker 2: A Sunday nights. What about you? Yeah, you deal with

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Speaker 2: your kids?

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Speaker 5: We do Friday night. We like the candles, we say,

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Speaker 5: if the kids are together, you know, And normally it

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Speaker 5: involves me being about to cook and Sudday going, oh

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Speaker 5: it's Friday.

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Speaker 4: Quick.

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Speaker 5: So we do that, not in a big demonstrative way,

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Speaker 5: but just in a kind of recognition a few moments

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Speaker 5: at the beginning of the evening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, growing up, did you always sit around the table?

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Speaker 1: Yes, we did. I mean it was that was very much.

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Speaker 1: It was no one had TV.

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Speaker 4: Dinners, no grazing. It was kind of.

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Speaker 1: You'd sit down at the table together, the four of you.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, that was kind of pretty much on school

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Speaker 1: nights every night.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: Then and to the point where we all everyone had

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Speaker 5: a set place. I mean that's how the pecking order

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Speaker 5: is established. I was the youngest of three sisters.

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Speaker 3: I had the least.

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Speaker 5: Comfortable chair sort of squashed into the corner where you

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Speaker 5: had to get between the sort of dresser and the

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Speaker 5: and the and the edge of the table. And I

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Speaker 5: sort of think of it like that. That was how

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Speaker 5: you knew your plate, literally knowing your place right, And did.

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Speaker 1: You get an easier time than your older sisters. And

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Speaker 1: they were resentful because they thought Emily's come along and

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Speaker 1: we had to do this, but she doesn't.

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Speaker 5: No, My sisters worked out very early that they could

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Speaker 5: make me run errands for them if they offered to

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Speaker 5: time me doing something like can you post this letter,

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Speaker 5: I'll time you, and I would run all the way

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Speaker 5: down to the bottom of the road, run all the

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Speaker 5: way back. My sister would have gone off and done

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Speaker 5: something completely different that she'd suddenly look at her watch

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Speaker 5: and go, oh, amazing forty five and I'd be like, wow.

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Speaker 3: Was that better than last time? So that was how.

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Speaker 5: But the seating was very much And then Sunday. Sunday

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Speaker 5: was a big deal because we had it in the

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Speaker 5: dining room and there is a bottle of Coca Cola

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Speaker 5: in the table and it was the only time of

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Speaker 5: the week we got fizzy drinks, and it was, you know,

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Speaker 5: the real iconic Coca Cola bottle, and that was how

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Speaker 5: you the.

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Speaker 2: Other times you ate in the kitchen. The dining room

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Speaker 2: is a lost. Do you have a dining room in

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Speaker 2: your house?

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Speaker 4: We do?

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Speaker 2: Do you have one?

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Speaker 5: We have a dining room that comes from the kitchen.

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Speaker 5: So I don't know that I like the idea of

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Speaker 5: a Yeah, I don't want a bright red dining room.

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Speaker 5: That's kind of like right now, have a row about something.

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Speaker 3: I like the sense of sudden.

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Speaker 2: You can also be like regulated to the kitchen, you know,

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Speaker 2: so everybody's becomes much more of a performance.

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Speaker 1: Did you have Yeah, we had it in the kitchen.

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Speaker 1: There was a little table, but Friday nights it was

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Speaker 1: round the dining room table. It was the you know,

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Speaker 1: because that was the posh dinner. And we also I

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Speaker 1: remember as a kid the Corona man and Corona used

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Speaker 1: to come around with bottles of fizzy drinks. It was

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Speaker 1: like a milk delivery, and the Corona man would do

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Speaker 1: deliveries and you could have cherry aid or lemonade or

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Speaker 1: soda water. And I just loved the days when we

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Speaker 1: could have some cherry aid because that seemed such an

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Speaker 1: exotic thing. Well, I grew up in London, but I

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Speaker 1: mean my parents were residential social workers, so we lived in.

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Speaker 4: This huge commune kind of type place in the East Den.

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Speaker 1: But where my mother grew up was in Essex and

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Speaker 1: we had the house there and we used to go

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Speaker 1: there at weekends and the Corona man would come to

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Speaker 1: this house in East Anglia, near Colchester and deliver kind

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Speaker 1: of off the back of the lorry these different bottles

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Speaker 1: of Corona fizzy drinks.

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Speaker 2: We had one of my grants that had this great

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Speaker 2: idea when we were in a hotel in France. He said,

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Speaker 2: I'd like to do like the cheese trolley, but ride

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Speaker 2: it around Highbury and it's Lindn and just knock up

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Speaker 2: people and they can say I have a bit of Camembert,

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Speaker 2: I have a bet of every night.

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Speaker 3: It's sort of six quite entrepreneurially idea.

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Speaker 5: This is taking meals and wheels, very sophisticated level tally where.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a huge change. I mean, both my

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Speaker 1: parents have died now, but you know, so there was

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Speaker 1: these silver tea sets which were seen I think in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties must have looked so impressive and proper

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Speaker 1: on the table that who has a solid silver teapot

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Speaker 1: or a solid silver hot for the hot water, and

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Speaker 1: it just there's all of that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 4: Very formal Cuverry.

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Speaker 5: I think it's hard. I can't live with and you,

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Speaker 5: if you're not careful, you inherit. It's rather big, heavy

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Speaker 5: sort of service. He ever calls it a dinner service anymore.

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Speaker 5: I just want you, just want plates that make you happy.

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Speaker 5: My plates make me so happy, right, And I don't

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Speaker 5: look good, and you know, I got mine from this

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Speaker 5: amazing potter in France, and it's just bright, beautiful colors

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Speaker 5: and it just makes me happy to look at it.

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Speaker 5: But I don't want anything that is like gold leaf

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Speaker 5: or edging, or I don't want to intimidate myself or guests.

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Speaker 2: Terrified if you break on. We did one with Nancy Pelosi,

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Speaker 2: and guess what. She never has had a meal without

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Speaker 2: a tablecloth. No, yes, her father, it was the mayor

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Speaker 2: of Baltimore. They had a huge family, but she said

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Speaker 2: they always had a tablecloth. And I was just thinking

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Speaker 2: about that, about the laundry, the ironing, all that goes

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Speaker 2: into having a tablecloth. It is nice to have a tablecloth.

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Speaker 5: Well, we had no kind of you know which which

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Speaker 5: nobody you know, we all had an actual napkin and

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Speaker 5: a napkin ring ring with your thing. Mine was a

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Speaker 5: little brown one.

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Speaker 2: Guess what in Italy they like in hotels we used

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Speaker 2: to go, They used to you had the during napkin.

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Speaker 2: They can't wash them, don't think we every night, right,

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Speaker 2: and then you put them back the door, and then

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Speaker 2: you'd have but.

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Speaker 4: One of them.

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Speaker 5: That's the point of the ring, right. It's like a

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Speaker 5: hanky that you don't change every day.

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Speaker 1: My actual rebelliousness when I was a kid growing up,

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Speaker 1: because I knew it would upset my mother, was to

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Speaker 1: put a milk bottle on the table, because you yeah,

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Speaker 1: from a juck. Goodness.

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Speaker 3: Even now, when I've got a.

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Speaker 4: Milk bottle on the table, I think.

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Speaker 2: So many rules And what about restaurants. So now in

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Speaker 2: the River Cafe, we see kids all the time. We

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Speaker 2: see kids at Friday night dinners or Saturday lunches or

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Speaker 2: Sunday lunches. We see people bring their children. And when

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Speaker 2: I was a kid, we went out for a special occasion,

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Speaker 2: you know, we went out for the birthdays or the anniversaries,

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Speaker 2: and we were told to look at the right hand

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Speaker 2: side of the menu, and I don't know, it's obviously

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Speaker 2: so economic thing. What was going to restaurants like in

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Speaker 2: your family when you were growing up, Emily.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, much more, much more seldom. Actually, we grew up

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Speaker 5: in Sheffield and there was amazing restaurant called Fishes, which

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Speaker 5: is on the edge of Bakewell and it's beautiful. Everything

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Speaker 5: about it is exquisite, you know, just the sense of

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Speaker 5: arrival and destination and beautiful herbs in the garden. And

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Speaker 5: I remember that was like very very special occasions. You

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Speaker 5: had to basically be getting engaged, married or giving birth

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Speaker 5: at Fishes, but it did have that sense of absolute occasion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And do you go out now with your kids

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Speaker 2: to restaurants? So is it also that way?

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Speaker 5: Funny enough, we don't go out that often to restaurants

359
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Speaker 5: with my kids because we do a lot of sort

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Speaker 5: of cooking and just eating at home when they're home.

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Speaker 5: And I feel like when your kids don't live at home,

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Speaker 5: they're actually really happy. It's almost turned round. I think

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Speaker 5: now that my kids have to fend for themselves. They live,

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Speaker 5: you know, one lives at university ones away. They'll be

365
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Speaker 5: doing a lot of kind of like cheap and cheerful

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Speaker 5: takeaways or whatever. And so actually the treat now is

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Speaker 5: to come home and to have home cooked food. Sort

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Speaker 5: of turned around.

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Speaker 1: I think we used to go out for special occasions

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Speaker 1: and there would be about three or four restaurants in

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Speaker 1: London that you know my parents love.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember them?

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Speaker 1: Well? One of them actually I now live around the

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Speaker 1: corner too. I mean it became my mother's favorite restaurant,

375
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Speaker 1: which was a Greek restaurant in Primrose Hill and Liamonia.

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Speaker 1: So you know, we used to go there and meet

377
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Speaker 1: my mother there, but they were kind of they weren't

378
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Speaker 1: terribly grand, you know, there was nothing overly flash about them.

379
00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,920
Speaker 1: They were just good places where good food was served.

380
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Speaker 1: And somebody was saying, you know, the kind of food

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Speaker 1: that we ate at home that was, you know, was

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00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,280
Speaker 1: much more continental, and so my mother would love. There

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Speaker 1: was a delicatessen in Linton that she used to love

384
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Speaker 1: going to on Liverpool Road, which kind of was full

385
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Speaker 1: of it seems so exotic.

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Speaker 5: So this is exactly what My dad would come down

387
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Speaker 5: to London for work and we lived in Sheffield and

388
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Speaker 5: he would visit Berwick Street. Next street was the first fresh.

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Speaker 3: Ravioli and amazing.

390
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:06,879
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a delicatessant and he would bring them

391
00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 5: back to Sheffield and it was like this, Oh my god,

392
00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:10,720
Speaker 5: what's dad got from London?

393
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Speaker 3: Now, yeah, a big deal.

394
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Speaker 2: As both of you have talked a lot about your mother's,

395
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Speaker 2: did either of your father to cook?

396
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Speaker 4: Fun enough?

397
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Speaker 1: My dad? So, my dad was a lot older. My

398
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 1: dad was born in nineteen ten, so my dad was

399
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,159
Speaker 1: a lot lot older than my mum. Had grown up

400
00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,000
Speaker 1: in the East End of London and had never really

401
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 1: left the East End of London. And there were two

402
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 1: favorite dishes that he cooked and I both found both

403
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,280
Speaker 1: of them absolutely inedible. He would have he would make

404
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:42,000
Speaker 1: porridge for breakfast, but he would he would put salt

405
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 1: in it. He didn't sweeten it. It was just kind

406
00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,640
Speaker 1: of salt. And I just thought, this is really hard work.

407
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,439
Speaker 1: And he used to cook egg and onions, so he

408
00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:54,080
Speaker 1: would do he would make scrambled eggs with spring onions

409
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,560
Speaker 1: at breakfast, and I just thought, who, so that didn't

410
00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 1: really do it? So fa The reason I've spoken about

411
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:04,440
Speaker 1: my mother's cooking more hers was more delicious.

412
00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:06,040
Speaker 2: Did your dad cook?

413
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:09,360
Speaker 5: He was a real foodie. He didn't cook a lot

414
00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,560
Speaker 5: but actually, looking back, he was a chemist, right, so

415
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 5: he was very obsessed with the science of getting food right,

416
00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,680
Speaker 5: getting cooking right, and so he'd be the one who'd say,

417
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,760
Speaker 5: never put meat onto a grill unless it's hotter than

418
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 5: you dare you know, useful. He'd be the one who'd say,

419
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,440
Speaker 5: never put the spaghetti in until it's massively salted, massively boiling,

420
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Speaker 5: and you never break it. And so I sort of

421
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 5: think back, I was like, I listened to him very seriously,

422
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:40,320
Speaker 5: and I don't think I've ever broken his rules, you know,

423
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Speaker 5: but it was more as a scientist probably than as

424
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Speaker 5: a cook.

425
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Speaker 2: So it stays with you.

426
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know, you like you've did for Milo.

427
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,639
Speaker 1: I mean for my mother when I was sixteen and

428
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: I was going off. You know, I went off camping, right,

429
00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 1: you're going to learn to cook on one part, and

430
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 1: you know, I learned how to make rattetuia, learned how

431
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,280
Speaker 1: to make speable and NAIs and then how to do

432
00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:03,520
Speaker 1: stews and you know.

433
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Speaker 2: Stuff like that she told you before you ran.

434
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, she taught me.

435
00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,000
Speaker 1: And when lockdown came and the ghastlings of COVID, my

436
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,520
Speaker 1: wife had moved back from America because she's got a

437
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,639
Speaker 1: very elderly mother. I was in DC by myself, and

438
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 1: suddenly the restaurants are shut.

439
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:17,479
Speaker 3: I am cooking every night.

440
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:19,440
Speaker 4: It was great because I found that I could still

441
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 4: do it.

442
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,399
Speaker 5: Yeah, and did you Yeah, of course, I mean I

443
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,159
Speaker 5: cooked right through lockdown. I didn't really mind it. I

444
00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:27,199
Speaker 5: was still working at these night. My week was very

445
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 5: much divided because I was out on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday's

446
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 5: not coming back till midnight, you know, one o'clock in

447
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 5: the morning.

448
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,119
Speaker 3: And so actually the rest of.

449
00:21:34,119 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 5: The week felt like I sort of earned my lockdown yea,

450
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 5: and earned my you know, time to cook.

451
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 2: Living home, you know this this home with the food

452
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 2: in the dining room and your mother's and gathering around

453
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 2: the table. What happened? Did you go to university straight

454
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 2: from home?

455
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: I took a gap year, and so I sort of traveled.

456
00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: I went to the great picking harvest in the Bougelot region,

457
00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:10,879
Speaker 1: and then I travel around Europe, and I spent some

458
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 1: time on your books in Israel.

459
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 2: What was food like in that yeard?

460
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:15,360
Speaker 3: You discover?

461
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: I loved French food, I absolutely grew to love for

462
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,400
Speaker 1: and I thought France then was the most sophisticated kind

463
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 1: of Wow, this food is just amazing. Actually, I spent

464
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 1: four years in Paris as the Paris correspondent for the BBC,

465
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 1: and I kind of thought, actually, it's very conservative. A

466
00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 1: lot of the cooking and some of it is really

467
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 1: quite pedestrian. Whatever restaurant you went to, you got a

468
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: version of the same menu every time. I just thought,

469
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 1: you know, and everyone was like, oh my god, I

470
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 1: bet you ate fantastically. Well, there were more interesting restaurants

471
00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 1: in London. So this was around two thousand, that's when

472
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,439
Speaker 1: we were there, and that London was just fantastic new

473
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: rep you know, Peruvian food, food, you know, it was

474
00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,119
Speaker 1: from all over the world. And you'd go, you can

475
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,560
Speaker 1: only eat French cheese because no other cheese exists in

476
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 1: the world, and you can only drink French wine because

477
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:08,800
Speaker 1: no other wine exists in the one.

478
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,199
Speaker 4: And that was just there was a chauvinism I.

479
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,199
Speaker 1: Think that I found in France then that they wouldn't

480
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: acknowledge that there was other ways of doing completely.

481
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 2: You agree, did you likee You've ever lived in Paris

482
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 2: or France.

483
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,040
Speaker 5: I've lived in France and I love it as a

484
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 5: sort of this is what we do and this is

485
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:25,960
Speaker 5: the way you do it, but God forbidding if you

486
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:26,760
Speaker 5: break any rules.

487
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 3: Actually, and I think it's at least the same.

488
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 5: You know, a friend of mine who is the Roman correspondent,

489
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 5: was saying, you know, if you if you try and

490
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 5: open a sort of Thai restaurant or a sort of

491
00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 5: different culture, there's actually quite a lot of pushback because

492
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 5: it's not how you know, sis, how we do things,

493
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 5: you know. And so I think maybe because we were

494
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 5: behind on our own cuisine, I do think Britain has

495
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 5: been much more accepting and really good at accepting other

496
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,520
Speaker 5: cultures and other fusions, and just a bit more adventurous.

497
00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:02,359
Speaker 3: Actually, I don't know.

498
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 5: I don't know anyone who says I will not try

499
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 5: you know that nationalities food, I will.

500
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: Not eat that.

501
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,359
Speaker 2: Did you go to university?

502
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 5: I went to university and then I went off to

503
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,560
Speaker 5: Hong Kong and that just completely opened my mind to

504
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 5: Southeast Asian food in a very different way. And I

505
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,359
Speaker 5: would say, now, you know, anything that's got sort of

506
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 5: prawns and lime and chili, lemon, grass, lemon, all this,

507
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,920
Speaker 5: I just love. I love Vietnamese flavors, I love coriander,

508
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 5: I love mint. I love handfuls of herbs as almost salad.

509
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 5: I am absolutely obsessed with herbs. I'm obsessed with you

510
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 5: grow them. I grow so many, I've got a jungle.

511
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 5: So yeah, it was a great time for me. In

512
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 5: Sunday Nights on the Beach and Checko in Hong Kong.

513
00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:51,159
Speaker 2: I said that when you go to a city and

514
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,480
Speaker 2: you go straight to the market, it tells you a

515
00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: lot about the city you're in, the culture you're in,

516
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 2: whether there's you know, a lot of greens, whether people

517
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 2: are shouting it's full. You know what's in season, don't

518
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 2: you say?

519
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,400
Speaker 4: You know the journalistic lives that we've been lucky to leave.

520
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: You have taken us all over the world, and so

521
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: you suddenly immersed in Afghanistan.

522
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 4: Or somewhere like that tells you a lot.

523
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you have no option but to eat

524
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 1: what the kind of international food happens to be.

525
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,159
Speaker 4: And that's just been joyous.

526
00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 5: We were in Bulgaria last year, funny enough, and I

527
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 5: always just took my son there for you know, three days,

528
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 5: little break. A little kind of rented place was right

529
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,720
Speaker 5: next to the market, and I was I sound sort

530
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 5: of like shocking, but I was so surprised by just

531
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 5: how magnificent the sort of produce was, and the fruit

532
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 5: and the vege. And I think I still have this

533
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 5: very Soviet sort of thought in my head of everything

534
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 5: being a bit sort of pale and gray and gristly,

535
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,000
Speaker 5: and you suddenly realize the richness.

536
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,880
Speaker 2: Of what they've actually, Yeah, probably very seasonal as well

537
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 2: fantastic these places. They do fly raspberries and from New

538
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 2: Zealand in the winter, or grapes some Souf Africa in

539
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: the role season.

540
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: And look, we live in a country in the UK

541
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 1: where there is plenty and we are blessed that we

542
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:07,920
Speaker 1: live in it. But then you go to America and

543
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: you go into one of the big supermarkets and you

544
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: see this kind of rows of brightly colored vegetables. It

545
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: all looks fabulous and just doesn't taste.

546
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 5: It's when you learn that big strawberries are normally tasted

547
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 5: of strawberries.

548
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: Water, And that's sort of that realization that you've got everything,

549
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 1: but it doesn't taste as good as in many places

550
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: where if you went to the small local market you're

551
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: going to get fabulous fresh fruit and vegetables.

552
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 5: I also think they over chill everything like American restaurants

553
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 5: serve everything too cold and so you can't taste it,

554
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 5: and I think I must serve everything more or less

555
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 5: like Ted.

556
00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 2: I say that in Italy the only thing that really

557
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: they care about being hard is pasta because you can

558
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: even have a blito misto and it's kind of room temperature,

559
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 2: and a lot of soups are not hotright, And I

560
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 2: agree with you. As Americans, I would say that things

561
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 2: are really really.

562
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 3: Do you think it's true that?

563
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: I mean, the thing that struck me really when I

564
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: was living there was that sweet things were over sweet,

565
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: so that you would have bread and you could almost

566
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 1: literally taste the taste it.

567
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, you can really taste it.

568
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,600
Speaker 1: And the savory things are over salted, so there's far

569
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,080
Speaker 1: too much, you know, like buying a packet of crisps

570
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: or chips as they would call them in the US,

571
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: and the salt levels in them would be on a

572
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 1: different scale to what would be served here.

573
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 2: No, I agree. I think as an American, I don't

574
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: even want to leap to the defense because I think

575
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 2: you're absolutely right. But if you go down to Union Square,

576
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 2: you know there's a Union Square market and there's rocket

577
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: from some County in Upstate New York, and there's broccoli

578
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 2: that's been grown on Long Island, and I think certainly

579
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 2: in California there's a whole movement of farm to table,

580
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: and as a chef, I just know that there's a

581
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 2: lot of that going on. But how you translate that

582
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 2: into schools to you know, b city as we know

583
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: you see that there I am getting political again, but

584
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,800
Speaker 2: you know it is food and politics and sustainability.

585
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 4: And you've been in England too long. When you call

586
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 4: it rocket and not a regular I mean I just

587
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 4: oh yeah, yeah.

588
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: Well that was the other thing that was interesting is

589
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 2: how when we Rose and I opened the River Cafe

590
00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty seven, we'd put a Papa pomodor or

591
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: a Rugela salad, and you know, people would say, I'm

592
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 2: not paying those days, shockingly three pounds fifty for this soup.

593
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 2: You know, it's just bread and tomatoes. And then you know,

594
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: sometimes I give credit to Freddy Laker who all the

595
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: cheap airlines which actually got people out of England and

596
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: to Italy and to France and to Greece, and then

597
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 2: you know, everybody started eating in these foreign countries, and

598
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,479
Speaker 2: then it came back and we're interested in eating here.

599
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 5: But I do remember my mum in the nineteen seventies

600
00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 5: making a lasagnya for the neighbors that had just moved in,

601
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 5: and nobody had heard of it. Yeah, it was just computing.

602
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 5: She was ahead of a time, and she took them

603
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 5: out and they were like, what do I do with him?

604
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 1: Yeah?

605
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 5: Now, you know, nobody would believe you'd made it yourself

606
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 5: and just assume it of a packet. Ye, She's brought

607
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 5: it around, and you know, she just thought that's a

608
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 5: warming dish for a family that are moving in. But

609
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 5: in the nineteen seventies, people hadn't even had past they

610
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 5: haven't even heard a pastor.

611
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 2: But you know, as you were saying, you did have

612
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: Indian restaurants, you had Chinese takeaway. So it's just I

613
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 2: was amazed, again coming from upstate New York, that there

614
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: were all these people who know how to make a curry.

615
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, everybody could make a curry. They

616
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 2: might not be able to make a lasagna, or they

617
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 2: might not be able to, you know, make a risotta,

618
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:32,760
Speaker 2: but there they were making some sort of amazing curry,

619
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: you know. And so I think that that goes in

620
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: and when you travel now for your work, would you

621
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 2: check out the restaurants first? Would you think I'm going

622
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: to Prague? Does anybody know where I should eat? Or

623
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:45,360
Speaker 2: I would going to Venice?

624
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 4: You were I'm going to Venice in June. We've already

625
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 4: booked restaurants.

626
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 2: Oh good, where you go?

627
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: I actually the friend that we're going with his booked restaurants,

628
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,440
Speaker 1: so I know that we're going to one absolutely sensational

629
00:29:57,480 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 1: place on Saturday night.

630
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 4: I could find out the name VI if.

631
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 2: You were going or is this okay? That's all right?

632
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 2: You'reing together very often in the office.

633
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 3: In the office, I know that he likes you know, yeah,

634
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 3: the press.

635
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 2: Now you have to write it down.

636
00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 5: But this is not his favorite. I think that would

637
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 5: be kind of slightly undermining.

638
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 1: And it's not my favorite. It's convenient. She has it's

639
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: too chicken soup noodles.

640
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:35,200
Speaker 5: I like that. Yeah, it's convenience, it's quick, it's not

641
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 5: too unhealthy.

642
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 2: Do you feel about eating at your desk? We were

643
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: talking about it here.

644
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,800
Speaker 5: About the problem with the newsagents. I mean, there are

645
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 5: very few problems, but I would say structurally, the big

646
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 5: problem is that we tend to record between twelve and two.

647
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 5: So you either have to have a very Spanish lunch.

648
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 5: You have to have a brunch yeh, a sort of

649
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 5: eleven eleven thirty brunch. And we're still working out with

650
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 5: it's best to be sort of spilling soup on your

651
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 5: nose at.

652
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,120
Speaker 4: Eleven thirty and laptop.

653
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, on your laptop.

654
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 5: We have an office, an office editors who's managed to

655
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 5: spill coffee on four people.

656
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 3: Very smart.

657
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 5: But if you wait till three, there's a chance you

658
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 5: get quite tetchy when you're recording.

659
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 4: And well that's me.

660
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: And if you and if you get wait till three

661
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: to have lunch, but then you've got a dinner in

662
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: the evening at seven. I don't feel like dinner, but

663
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: I need something between.

664
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I suggest you reschedule the podcast or do

665
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: you have to do it during people.

666
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 1: We want to get it so that people receive it

667
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,400
Speaker 1: when they're on their journey home. And if the podcast

668
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:45,400
Speaker 1: goes up online, say an hour later, listening figures go

669
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:46,920
Speaker 1: down because we're doing a daily news.

670
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 5: But if we were properly Italian about this, we would

671
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 5: just basically lay out the table and all eat and record, you.

672
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 3: Know, and just sort of make.

673
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 5: Put the meal in the center of it and record

674
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 5: the podcast around the edges, which you know, I always

675
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 5: ask actors.

676
00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,960
Speaker 2: You know, if you're doing a matinee or even you know,

677
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: do you eat before or do you eat after? I

678
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 2: mean most of the actors that I know play, they say,

679
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 2: come meet me, you know, after the show, and we'll

680
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,080
Speaker 2: go out and have something to eat. But then do

681
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:17,400
Speaker 2: they snack before?

682
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: You know?

683
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 2: Do they wait that.

684
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 4: Long if you've just had a meal.

685
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 5: Problems? Probably they are, they're our podcast timing, But it

686
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 5: is would you talk about that?

687
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's importantly, it is important. What do you think

688
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 2: chances favorite dishes?

689
00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 5: I'm going to do? I think I've got mine really wrong.

690
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 2: Okay, I feel like we asked I'm sure we ask

691
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 2: you what is your favorite dish? Well, we're going to

692
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: say what what did you guess is his favorite?

693
00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 1: So first, because I'm I'm going to say what you

694
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: tell me what I think it would be something sea

695
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 1: bassie prawns with a spicy kind of sauce.

696
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,280
Speaker 4: That would be yeah, kind of have a flavor of

697
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:16,240
Speaker 4: the Far East too.

698
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 2: Very good.

699
00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd go with that.

700
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, And what have you got for me?

701
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 5: Well, I think it's a bit too sort of matcho

702
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 5: for you, because I don't think you're really matching your food.

703
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 5: But I have gone for Philips, state mushrooms, fat chips,

704
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 5: truffle butter or bonnets and green beans.

705
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 4: Yeah there are.

706
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: Okay, should we just talk for one minute about these agents?

707
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: When I said it's my favorite, I do think it's

708
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 2: a great program. Do you want to tell the world.

709
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 5: What you do?

710
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: We started, you know, as every podcast starts, with zero

711
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: subscribers and zero listeners, and we were trying to create

712
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 1: something that was not a million miles away from our

713
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,320
Speaker 1: BBC backgrounds, but was maybe just a tiny bit bolder,

714
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: and you know, we would really call stories as we

715
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:10,720
Speaker 1: saw them. And I don't want this to sound pompous,

716
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: because I don't think we feel pompous about it at all,

717
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 1: but you know, almost try to reinvent, you know, the

718
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,919
Speaker 1: idea of public service broadcasting and that we are kind

719
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: of giving people, hopefully something interesting that they hadn't thought

720
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: about a story and maybe makes them think, ah, I

721
00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: get it now, I get why this issue is so

722
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 1: important or I hadn't thought about that.

723
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 4: That's what we're trying to do.

724
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 5: Our editor would at this point kill us if we

725
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 5: didn't say we are now the biggest daily podcast in

726
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 5: the UK get so that he doesn't sort of, but

727
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,319
Speaker 5: that's a kind of a big a surprise to us,

728
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 5: I think, as it would be to our listeners in

729
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 5: the sense that it was a very tiny acorn, you know.

730
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 5: It was sort of three of us just wanting to

731
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:58,280
Speaker 5: work with our mates and create something that we wanted

732
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:02,439
Speaker 5: to enjoy doing. And yeah, it's really lovely when people

733
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 5: say it feels close to public service because we do

734
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 5: things that we think actually are really worth discussing that

735
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 5: you don't always get everywhere else. And we've been really

736
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 5: lucky with our interviewees, fantastic people who've come on the newsagents,

737
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 5: and I think we're still finding our way, you know,

738
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,279
Speaker 5: we want to sort of work out what the next

739
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,320
Speaker 5: step is in terms of who we're reaching now and

740
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 5: who we're talking to.

741
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: You know, we're recording this and it is the day

742
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 1: before the coronation, and there is a certain tone and

743
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,319
Speaker 1: timbre to the coverage at the moment on a lot

744
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:42,360
Speaker 1: of the mainstream outlets, and I think we are asking

745
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,920
Speaker 1: different questions, not being anti monarchists, but just asking you know,

746
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: more interesting questions maybe about some of this, which maybe

747
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: the main broadcasters would be fearful.

748
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 4: Of going to.

749
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:54,360
Speaker 1: The Other thing is that, you know, when I was

750
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: in Washington and I'm doing the ten o'clock news, the

751
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 1: audience on average would be over six years old. We're

752
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: getting a lot of young people, and so this whole

753
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 1: idea that young people aren't interested in news, I.

754
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:08,200
Speaker 3: Think is both.

755
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:11,279
Speaker 1: I think that we're getting a lot of people who

756
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,040
Speaker 1: but they just want it done differently, and that's what

757
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:14,719
Speaker 1: we're trying to do.

758
00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, my favorite line came yesterday from a friend who said,

759
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 5: I'm a much much better kind of dog owner as

760
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 5: a result, because he used to be really grumpy with

761
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 5: his sweet whippet Wolf, and you know, if Wilf want

762
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:31,640
Speaker 5: to go out, it's kind of, oh, come on, then

763
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 5: let's do it.

764
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 3: And he said, now it's my time.

765
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,440
Speaker 5: You know, I get in with the newsagents and Wolf

766
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 5: is happier, and I'm happier, and we get back.

767
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 3: Exhausted and it goes really quickly.

768
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,160
Speaker 5: So if we've made dogs happier as a result of

769
00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 5: this podcast, that our work is done with, I think.

770
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 2: It's you know, as I said, you know, it's about informing.

771
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 2: It's about telling us. If we know about news, if

772
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,880
Speaker 2: we know about what is happening, it helps us make choices.

773
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 2: It helps us plan our lives. Our day is what's happening.

774
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: You know, That's why at some point, and that's what

775
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 2: you do. And I don't want to compare food to

776
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,880
Speaker 2: information and you know what we're all doing, but it is.

777
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 2: It gives us knowledge, gives us nourishment. It gets to

778
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 2: nourishment and energy, like you know, food and news. And

779
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 2: so at the end of this really great conversation, thank

780
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 2: you for coming. It's so nice that you came on.

781
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 2: Before you have lunch, maybe you can have your prune

782
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 2: and almond tar. Just have one more question. What would

783
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 2: be the food that you return to if you needed comfort?

784
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 5: Well, I guess I'd say put aside your you know,

785
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 5: the SeaBASS, prawns and the chili. My favorite food is

786
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 5: fresh bread and butter and strawberry jam.

787
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 3: And I don't.

788
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 5: Indulge in that very often because it feels like, you know,

789
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 5: if I started with bread, I would never stop.

790
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 3: But I just love it.

791
00:37:54,480 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 1: A couple of years ago, I was flying back from Australia.

792
00:37:56,520 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: My son lives in Australia and I caught COVID being

793
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: very on trend. I got back to London, tested positive,

794
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: felt absolutely dreadful, and I realized the food I wanted

795
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: I hadn't had since I was a child. And it's

796
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 1: so such a cliche to say it. I wanted chicken

797
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 1: soup and moncibles and it's the kind of almost it's

798
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: the punchline of so many Jewish jokes. Give him some

799
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,320
Speaker 1: chicken soup. Yeah, And that's what I felt I wanted.

800
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 1: And I suddenly realized I knew you were going to

801
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 1: ask this question, so I kind of thought, what is

802
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,239
Speaker 1: the food that I think? Oh, and that was what

803
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: I needed. Then we kind of found some chicken soup.

804
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: Linda made some chicken soup and I was just oh,

805
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,239
Speaker 1: that was tasted so fabulous.

806
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 2: Well, thank you very much. It was great to have

807
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,439
Speaker 2: you here. Let's go have munch. Thank you very much.

808
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,279
Speaker 2: If you like listening to Ruthie's Table for would you

809
00:38:54,440 --> 00:38:58,360
Speaker 2: please make sure to rate and review the podcast on

810
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get

811
00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 2: your podcasts. Thank you,