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Speaker 1: Okay, guys, I am officially on my High and Mighty tour.

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Speaker 1: February nineteenth Madison, Wisconsin. February twentieth is Milwaukee, Wisconsin. February

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Speaker 1: twenty first, Detroit, Michigan. February twenty second, Rama, Ontario. That's

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Speaker 1: Canada for those of you who don't speak Canadia. March thirteenth, Cleveland, Ohio.

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Speaker 1: March fourteenth, Columbus, Ohio. March fifteenth, Cincinnati, Ohio, and then

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Speaker 1: March twentieth is Denver, Colorado. March twenty seventh, Portland, Maine.

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Speaker 1: March twenty eighth, Providence, Rhode Island. March twenty ninth, Springfield, Massachusetts.

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Speaker 1: April tenth is Chicago. I'll be at the Chicago Theater.

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Speaker 1: April eleventh Indianapolis, Indiana. April twelfth Louisville, Kentucky. April sixteenth

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Speaker 1: is Albuquerque, New Mexico. April seventeenth is Mesa, Arizona. April

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Speaker 1: twenty third is Kansas City, Missouri. April twenty fourth is

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Speaker 1: Saint Louis, Missouri. April twenty fifth is Minneapolis, Minnesota. April

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Speaker 1: thirtieth Nashville, Tennessee. May first, it is Charlotte, North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: May second is Durham, North Carolina. May sixth I'm doing

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Speaker 1: Netflix as a joke festival. I will be in Los Angeles.

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Speaker 1: That is a new announcement, along with Atlantic City May fifteenth, Saratoga, California,

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Speaker 1: May sixteenth, Monterey, California. May seventeenth, Modesto, California. And then

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Speaker 1: June fourth Portchester, New York. June fifth is Boston, mass

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Speaker 1: And June twelfth is Portland, Oregon.

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Speaker 2: And then Seattle is June thirteenth, So suck on that. Everybody.

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Speaker 2: Go to Chelseahandler dot com for tickets. Hi, Catherine, when

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Speaker 2: does Yes, Chelsea, how are you?

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Speaker 3: We've been?

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Speaker 2: I figured i'd speak Spanish.

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Speaker 1: I'm in Jamaica right now, so I thought, I would

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Speaker 1: you know that's apropos of Jamaican's I'm getting all my

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Speaker 1: country is confused. I figure we just should start speaking

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Speaker 1: Spanish everywhere because of bad Bunny and let all letting

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Speaker 1: all these white, cranky people know that it's too late.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my mom, it was.

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Speaker 3: This was so funny. My mom's visiting and Brad and

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Speaker 3: I didn't watch anything with the Super Bowl, and I

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Speaker 3: told her.

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Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, we didn't really see anything.

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Speaker 3: And my very sweet mid seventies midda night. Mother goes

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Speaker 3: you didn't watch Bad Bunny, and then she made me

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Speaker 3: turn it on and like walked me through all the symbolism,

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Speaker 3: and it was.

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Speaker 1: Just absolutely wonderful to walk me through all the symbolism

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Speaker 1: because I didn't catch all the symbolism. I never catch

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Speaker 1: all the symbolism in anything, in movies, in culture and art,

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Speaker 1: I'm always like, oh what, I'm like, I need someone

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Speaker 1: to I need a culture guide.

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Speaker 3: Yes, did you know the wedding was a real wedding,

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Speaker 3: the wedding that they showed.

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Speaker 1: Yes, well, I wouldn't have except that I read that,

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Speaker 1: so I wouldn't have known it. So I'm not I

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Speaker 1: feel smart sometimes and then there are many other times

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Speaker 1: where I just feel incredibly stupid, So I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'm somewhere in the middle. That's the world we live in.

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Speaker 2: It's not your fault.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I'm excited though, because I have shows tonight.

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Speaker 1: I'm on my way to Madison, and then I have Milwaukee,

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Speaker 1: and then I have Toronto Casino Rama.

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Speaker 2: Where else do I have this weekend? Detroit?

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Speaker 1: That's right, I'm coming to Detroit on Saturday night, So

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Speaker 1: there's still tickets for that show, so definitely come.

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Speaker 2: And there's still tickets for Milwaukee. I have started the

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Speaker 2: High and Mighty tour. We are on our way. My

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Speaker 2: listener's better. I better see all of you on tour. Okay,

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Speaker 2: ladies and gay men.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I've gotten so many emails from people who are like,

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Speaker 3: I'm coming to this show. I'm coming to that show.

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Speaker 3: So it's really exciting and like say hi to people

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Speaker 3: when you're at the show, like meet other listeners, meet

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Speaker 3: other fans, like I think that's one of the most

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Speaker 3: fun things about going to a show like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I love that. I love when my

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Speaker 1: fans meet each other, become friends. They see I see

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Speaker 1: that a lot. There's a lot of women that come

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Speaker 1: by themselves. I'm like, you couldn't get anyone to come

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Speaker 1: with you, and then they hook up with each other

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh that's nice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, Well. Our guest today is someone I'm

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Speaker 3: very excited.

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Speaker 2: I know. I know as was I. I was a

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Speaker 2: very great conversation. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: He is a cultural icon. Who isn't these days? Best

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Speaker 1: known for his role as mentor an executive producer on

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Speaker 1: Project Runway and making the cut and he's a former

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Speaker 1: Chair of Fashion Design at Parsons School of Design and

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Speaker 1: a New York Times bestselling author whose career has been

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Speaker 1: rooted in elevating others with clarity, compassion and conviction.

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Speaker 2: Please welcome, Tim Gunn.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, Oh my god, Look who's here.

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Speaker 2: I'm great. How are you doing? Tim Gunn?

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Speaker 4: I'm better for being with you and Catherine.

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Speaker 1: You look like a very serious news broadcaster right now.

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Speaker 4: Well, thankfully I'm not a news broadcaster.

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Speaker 1: I seriously, thank god we're not news broadcasters. I was

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Speaker 1: just listening to a really interesting podcast. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: do you ever listen to Karas Swisher and Scott Galloway

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Speaker 1: like Pivot or any of those.

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Speaker 4: Podcasts occasionally occasionally? The only one I listened to regularly

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Speaker 4: is yours.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, Tim, do you know what a compliment

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Speaker 2: that is? I love it. I love it.

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Speaker 4: That's really true.

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Speaker 1: Let's get married, Tim. I feel like we're on the

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Speaker 1: exact same page.

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Speaker 5: You know what.

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Speaker 2: I oh, this is what I want to talk to

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Speaker 2: you about. Well, first, let me finish my thought.

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Speaker 1: So I was on my way here today listening to

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Speaker 1: a podcast and it was just talking about new media

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Speaker 1: and how you're really kind of more untouchable when you

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Speaker 1: produce your own thing, you know, and you like on

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Speaker 1: YouTube and doing Like independent media is now on the

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Speaker 1: rise because of all of you know, the quashing of

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Speaker 1: opinions and all this old media. It's like it's so

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Speaker 1: stale anyway, and it's on its way out anyway. So

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Speaker 1: that you know, the president going after all that stuff

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Speaker 1: is just another reason for independent media to rise up.

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Speaker 1: And like when people like Don Lemon who take to

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Speaker 1: the streets and some other great examples like Tim Dillon

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Speaker 1: on the Bulwark and all these different people doing their

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Speaker 1: own things is really getting a lot more attention. And

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Speaker 1: I don't know how exactly you monetize that, but there

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Speaker 1: is a way. So that's that's promising, and that's something

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Speaker 1: to you know, keep focused on in these days that

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Speaker 1: we're living in tim Oh.

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Speaker 4: These days are quite unbelievable. I just have to say,

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Speaker 4: I feel very fortunate and very lucky to have my

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Speaker 4: health and to have shelter and to be here with

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Speaker 4: you and Catherine.

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Speaker 1: First of all, I want to talk to you about

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Speaker 1: your celibacy. Let's talk about that. That's one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons why I think we could make it as a

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Speaker 1: couple because I feel I feel like you know, there's

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Speaker 1: no leave you alone, there's no pressure, will enjoy each

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Speaker 1: other's company. We both won't have any qualms about telling

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Speaker 1: the other person to get the fuck out of our

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Speaker 1: space when we need to, and we have similar sensibilities,

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Speaker 1: I feel like, and we don't have to worry about

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Speaker 1: having sex exactly.

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Speaker 4: It's perfect.

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Speaker 2: How long have you been, celebate, Tim, I've been in.

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Speaker 4: New York for forty two years. Forty three years.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So this was a choice that you made. Yes,

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Speaker 1: tell me about that choice. What will you just tell me?

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Speaker 4: Why? Well, I would keep a psychiatrist very busy. I

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Speaker 4: can say that I have.

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Speaker 2: I'm also a psychiatrist.

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Speaker 4: You're a good one. I had a very serious nine

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Speaker 4: year relationship in Washington, DC, and I loved this person

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Speaker 4: deeply and would have done anything for him. And I

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Speaker 4: still remember the night that it all ended. We were

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Speaker 4: in bed watching mash It was a first run and

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Speaker 4: he said to me, I have no patience for you

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Speaker 4: any longer. I want you to leave. I had my

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Speaker 4: own apartment, but I had been living with him for years,

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Speaker 4: and I left. I drove to my apartment on Rock

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Speaker 4: Creek Parkway, and I had to pull off because I

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Speaker 4: was hyperventilating. I was beside myself with self flagellation and

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Speaker 4: self pity, and it was awful. And this is someone

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Speaker 4: I worked with, so it wasn't as though I just

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Speaker 4: would never see him again. And one of the things

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Speaker 4: that he told me that night was that he'd been

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Speaker 4: sleeping with just about everything that walked by, and I

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Speaker 4: had been loyal and faithful to him. He was the

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Speaker 4: only person I'd ever been with. And this is the

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Speaker 4: advent of AIDS. It's nineteen eighty two. Wow, And I

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Speaker 4: thought so. The self pity then turned to completely unbridled

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Speaker 4: anger because I thought he may have given me a

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Speaker 4: death sentence. Of course, and I was tested every six

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Speaker 4: months for ten years for HIV and thankfully I had

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Speaker 4: a clean slate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, thank god.

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Speaker 4: But whenever I was even tempted to engage in some

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Speaker 4: something that could become serious with someone, all this would

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Speaker 4: come back like Niagara Falls, and it would just take

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Speaker 4: the desire away. And I have to say, being celibate

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Speaker 4: and being someone who lives alone was a bit of

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Speaker 4: an adjustment, But now I wouldn't have it any other way.

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Speaker 4: And COVID and the pandemic and our sequestering brought this

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Speaker 4: all back for me because we had to stay home,

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Speaker 4: and I'm probably one of the few people who really

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Speaker 4: loved it.

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Speaker 2: Another thing we have in common.

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Speaker 1: This is not a popular thing to proclaim, but I

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Speaker 1: also loved the beginning stages of COVID. I'm not gonna lie.

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Speaker 1: I was slightly disappointed when people were told to go back.

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Speaker 4: To work again. We aren't kindred spirits. I felt the

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Speaker 4: same way.

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Speaker 1: And we could imagine the funds we could co mingle.

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Speaker 1: I feel like I'm supporting too many things in my life,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, I just want to join up with

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Speaker 1: someone who also has a robust bank account and we

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Speaker 1: can just be fair with each other so that there's

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Speaker 1: not so much pressure on my shoulders.

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Speaker 2: So it's probably a better deal for me than it

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Speaker 2: is for you.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just throwing it out there, and you know,

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Speaker 1: throughout this podcast, I'll continue to remind you of the possibilities.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry to hear about that relationship and what

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Speaker 1: a horrible ending to a relationship.

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Speaker 4: I'll invoke a phrase that I use all the time,

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Speaker 4: and my mother absolutely hated the phrase. Things happen for

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Speaker 4: a reason, and sometimes the reason isn't revealed at the moment.

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Speaker 4: It may not be revealed for days, weeks, or months,

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Speaker 4: or sometimes even years. But had this relationship not fallen apart,

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Speaker 4: I would never have moved to New York. It would

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Speaker 4: never have happened. In nineteen eighty two, when this relationship

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Speaker 4: was still ongoing, I have been offered a teaching position

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Speaker 4: at Parsons here in New York, and I said no.

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Speaker 4: I said, I'm very happy. I have no desire to

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Speaker 4: leave DC. But a year later, when after my life

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Speaker 4: had changed, Parsons called again and I said, I'll be

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Speaker 4: right up, and two weeks later I was living here.

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Speaker 1: So like, how long do you think it took you

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Speaker 1: to get over that relationship to really truly be grateful

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Speaker 1: to be in your own company.

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Speaker 4: To that point, Well, to be honest and pun reflection,

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Speaker 4: I would say it was the end of that. Those

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Speaker 4: ten years of being tested for HIV, I thought, Okay,

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Speaker 4: I have a clean slate. I'm good that Every six

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Speaker 4: months I would have this bad of anxiety about what

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Speaker 4: if it took a while. You know, I occasionally relive

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Speaker 4: it in my head, but it doesn't hurt any longer.

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Speaker 1: Right right? I mean, I think I'm asking you this

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Speaker 1: because so many of our listeners call in, as you

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Speaker 1: may know, about these kinds of issues. When are they

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Speaker 1: going to get over something? How do they deal with

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Speaker 1: such a big loss? And it sounds like you went

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Speaker 1: in a certain direction and were able to heal from

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Speaker 1: that and feel like this has been the right decision

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Speaker 1: for you after a lot of reflection with I guess

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Speaker 1: COVID reinforcing that.

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Speaker 2: But is there anything that you can share.

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Speaker 1: With our listeners about coming to grips with a breakup,

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Speaker 1: coming out of a relationship that was a long relationship.

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Speaker 4: I can only reflect upon my own experiences. Really, we

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Speaker 4: all know that time is a great healer, but the

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Speaker 4: amount of time that it takes depends upon the circumstances.

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Speaker 4: It was helpful for me to get out of Washington

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Speaker 4: because I wasn't seeing him every workday.

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Speaker 2: What was it like when you did see him after you,

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Speaker 2: guys broke up?

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Speaker 4: It was completely horrible, horrible. I wanted to I wanted

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Speaker 4: to kill him, yeah, and I wanted him to hurt

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Speaker 4: as badly as I had been hurt. He seemed to

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Speaker 4: be impervious to it, though, so it was just great

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Speaker 4: to get away. And also moving to New York, I

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Speaker 4: had this huge learning curve about this entirely new environment

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Speaker 4: and different social interactions and a completely different academic environment

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Speaker 4: in which I was teaching. So that was a wonderful

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Speaker 4: I won't even I won't say it was a distraction.

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Speaker 4: It was just a new beginning and it was truly new.

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Speaker 4: So I would say to someone who's been in a

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Speaker 4: long term relationship that's terminated in some way, it's good

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Speaker 4: to I want to say, change.

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Speaker 2: Your job to another city and change your job. You

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Speaker 2: can if you look forward, to do either of those two.

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Speaker 4: Things, or just get a new living environment, something that

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Speaker 4: makes you know that things are different in more ways

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Speaker 4: than just this relationship going away.

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Speaker 1: I think what you're saying is the world is so

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Speaker 1: much bigger than we are in that moment of defeatism,

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Speaker 1: you know, or broken heartedness, the world is so much bigger,

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Speaker 1: And it's like sometimes you have to physically take yourself

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Speaker 1: into a new version of your world so and a

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Speaker 1: new part of the world geographically to understand that how

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Speaker 1: big the world is and how small that was, even

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Speaker 1: though it was massive to you. It's a blip in

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Speaker 1: your history now rather and because you've made such a

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Speaker 1: big life for yourself, did you ever make contact once

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Speaker 1: you hit the big time?

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Speaker 4: No? Yeah, god no, I haven't heard a thing. That's awesome.

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Speaker 2: That's all fine? Yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: What's the thing they say about like success is the

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Speaker 3: greatest revenge.

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Speaker 1: Success is the greatest revenge or revenge is a dish

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Speaker 1: best served cold?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I agree.

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Speaker 1: I agree with that because by the time you ever

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Speaker 1: get revenge, sometimes you just don't even care.

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Speaker 2: You know, like you don't care.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I don't care about you looking like I

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Speaker 1: remember breaking up with a certain boyfriend and I couldn't

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Speaker 1: wait until it hurt him, right, you know what I

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Speaker 1: mean in a way that I was like, wait until

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Speaker 1: you see how much you've lost. Like I'm valuable, I

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Speaker 1: get brought everything to this relationship.

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Speaker 2: And you fucked it up.

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Speaker 1: And like now when I see him, I can see

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Speaker 1: how much he misses me and how much he cares

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Speaker 1: for me and respects me. I mean, he doesn't try

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Speaker 1: to get back together with me, but it's very apparent.

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Speaker 1: And I don't get any pleasure from.

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Speaker 2: That because you moved on, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, I told I knew it and

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Speaker 1: it came true. And I think that's true for so

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Speaker 1: many of us. You know, by the time you get

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Speaker 1: what you were looking for, it's a little too late.

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Speaker 4: I agree.

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Speaker 1: So Tim, tell me, Okay, you have one of the

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Speaker 1: most distinctive voices in television, so I want to because

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Speaker 1: I have a distinctive voice. So and when I'm sometimes talking,

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Speaker 1: I could be on a ski hill, covered in ski

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Speaker 1: gear with the face mask on, and people will hear

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Speaker 1: me and be like Chelsea, and I'm like, what the fuck?

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Speaker 1: I can only imagine how annoying it must be for

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Speaker 1: you living in Manhattan and going out to restaurants. I mean,

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Speaker 1: what is it like when people hear your voice and

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Speaker 1: don't even see your face?

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Speaker 4: Chelsea? All this incredible phenomenon happened after I turned fifty.

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Speaker 4: Oh and that was twenty two years ago. So I

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Speaker 4: am delighted to have people shout out or say hello.

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Speaker 4: I consider it to be really a great honor. And

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Speaker 4: it doesn't not only doesn't bother me, it actually kind

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Speaker 4: of invigorates me. Oh great, still I've still got something. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: but it's very flattering.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you look very sharp today. Also, I would

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Speaker 1: like to know how what do you sleep in? I

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Speaker 1: would like to know what Tim Gunn's wardrobe for nighttime is.

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Speaker 4: I sleep in a white V necked shirt and J

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Speaker 4: krue pajama.

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Speaker 2: Bottoms, okay, with a cigar in.

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Speaker 4: Your hand, maybe a Manhattan.

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Speaker 1: I like the idea of falling asleep with a Manhattan

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Speaker 1: in one hand and a star and sleeping with your

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Speaker 1: arms over your head all night to protect to protect

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Speaker 1: your property. I want to ask you, what do you think?

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Speaker 1: I hate trends? Okay, I hate fashion trends. I fucking

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Speaker 1: hate it, and I know you do, and so I

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Speaker 1: I what is the what? Let's think about what you

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Speaker 1: think is the most annoying fashion trend of the last

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Speaker 1: five years?

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Speaker 4: Well, for me, it's easy to say. Okay, though the

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Speaker 4: more I say it, the more ubiquitous this item becomes.

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Speaker 4: And I know it's kind of hackneyed now, But in

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Speaker 4: God's Great Kingdom, how did leggings become a pant?

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Speaker 2: I know?

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Speaker 4: How did it happen?

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Speaker 2: I agree?

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Speaker 1: I agree, I don't understand. I don't remember when people

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Speaker 1: used to get dressed up to go to the airport.

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Speaker 4: Yes I miss those days.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I mean that was a little bit before my time,

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Speaker 1: but I remember watching planes, like you're a little bit

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Speaker 1: older than me. But when I remember watching like love

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Speaker 1: Boat and those kinds of things, and you saw the

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Speaker 1: way people would travel for vacations. And you don't need that,

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Speaker 1: Like you don't need to be in a three piece

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Speaker 1: suit to get on an airplane. I'm not suggesting that,

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Speaker 1: but be decent and respectful of others, Like don't have

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Speaker 1: your skin out, you know what I mean, Joe.

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Speaker 3: Why do you want your skins watching the airplane?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, don't be in flip flops on a plane,

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Speaker 1: Like there should be some sense of decorum. I think

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Speaker 1: I've approached almost every airline and offered to make an

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Speaker 1: etiquette video, but I think because I'm such a divisive figure,

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Speaker 1: they're like, no, you're not the one.

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Speaker 4: Yes you are.

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Speaker 2: I would take it.

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Speaker 4: I'd take advice from you any day.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you. And every flight attendant asks me

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Speaker 1: to do it. They're all like, please, Chelsea, do something,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, I'm here on this flight during the

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Speaker 1: next five hours. If you have any issue use with anyone,

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Speaker 1: please I'll handle it. I like to intervene and be

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Speaker 1: an interloper in situations that.

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Speaker 2: Don't involve me at all. That's a bad fashion trend.

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Speaker 1: I also think when trends change every six months, it's

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Speaker 1: like when people take that seriously, I find that very annoying.

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Speaker 1: It happens with language as well.

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Speaker 4: I call people who chase trends fashion victims. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 4: And I'm always saying to people, don't chase trends unless

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Speaker 4: it's something that really appeals to you, that pulls at

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Speaker 4: your heart strings. And also you and Catherine know it's

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Speaker 4: fashion's pendulum and it's retails pendulum. They want us to

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Speaker 4: buy stuff, so they've got to keep changing things up.

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Speaker 1: What do you think the best fashion trend of the

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Speaker 1: last five years has been.

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Speaker 4: I don't know that there's been one. Honestly, it's been

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Speaker 4: the slopification of dressing ath leisure rising. I don't understand it.

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Speaker 1: Yes, leisure is gross because it's also it's intimating that

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Speaker 1: you just worked out and also are in.

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Speaker 2: The public walking around, even at the.

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Speaker 1: Hotel I stay at in New York. And next time

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Speaker 1: I come to New York, we're going out for a drink. Tim,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you drink love it, but you

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Speaker 1: can watch.

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Speaker 2: Me drink do you drink?

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Speaker 4: Do I drink?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: You drink right, please, I'm a hairshet being an alcoholic.

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Speaker 1: Okay, great, great, we're on the same another thing. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we're yeah, we're gonna go. I'm gonna give you

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Speaker 1: my MAUD number because we need to have a drink.

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Speaker 1: As enjoyable as this is, I'm going to want more

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Speaker 1: of you. Oh at leisure where, yeah, that intimates that

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Speaker 1: you are are infers that you.

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Speaker 2: Came from or work at.

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Speaker 1: And when I stay at my hotel in New York

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Speaker 1: that I stay at, I only stay at one hotel.

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Speaker 2: I love it. It's the best hotel.

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Speaker 1: I wish I could say with the name of it

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Speaker 1: to promote them, but I don't want any more people

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Speaker 1: there anyway. They have like a club lounge, you know,

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Speaker 1: where you get to go and have breakfast or cocktails

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Speaker 1: or whatever you're in the mood for dinner or lunch.

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Speaker 1: And even when I go to the gym, which is

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Speaker 1: on the same floor as that club lounge, if I

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Speaker 1: go into the breakfast room or the club lounge in

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Speaker 1: my outfit from working out, it is only to retrieve

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Speaker 1: a water or get a green jruice. I would never

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Speaker 1: sit down in those chairs after a workout. I find

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Speaker 1: that repugnant. I find that people who were walk around,

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Speaker 1: especially when you're a woman, because you have fucking wet

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Speaker 1: vagina states swamp ass, Yes, swamp ass, and walking around

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Speaker 1: in public after a workout. You have to go home,

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Speaker 1: do charse a and then go out into the street

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Speaker 1: and the leisure where that you see on planes.

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Speaker 2: Same goes for that.

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Speaker 4: Your basic agree.

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Speaker 1: You're basically saying I worked out, even though you know

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Speaker 1: most people are wearing it without working out too.

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Speaker 2: It's like I worked out and now I'm ready to relax.

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Speaker 4: I have to share an anecdote. I work out with

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Speaker 4: a fitness trainer, usually once a week, sometimes twice. We

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Speaker 4: work out in Central Park and I wear my workout clothes,

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Speaker 4: which I only own because of Jason and the fact

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Speaker 4: that I work out with him. So I was walking

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Speaker 4: from my apartment on the Upper West Side to the

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Speaker 4: park and a woman stopped me and she said, how

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Speaker 4: dare you? I said, I'm sorry, She said, how dare

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Speaker 4: you wear these clothes? This is exactly what you tell

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Speaker 4: people not to wear. And I said, I'm going to

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Speaker 4: work out. I am not going out to lunch. I'm

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Speaker 4: not going shopping. I am working out.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, exactly everything. The lines have been blurred about

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Speaker 1: a lot of things. Thank god for your voice. Now,

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Speaker 1: you were in the room when Heidi Klum put on

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Speaker 1: her famous worm costume. Yes, I don't know why I'm

437
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,280
Speaker 1: putting up quotation marks. I don't know what that's about.

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Speaker 1: But you were there, and at any point during that

439
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,440
Speaker 1: did you think what the fuck are you doing?

440
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 4: The entire time? The entire time, I thought, what the

441
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 4: fuck are you doing?

442
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,720
Speaker 2: And did you advise her? Did you tell her.

443
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 1: What you thought?

444
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,080
Speaker 4: Well, it was too late. I only believe in telling

445
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 4: people about things that they can change. She was already

446
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 4: many hours into this costume. And what I really wanted

447
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 4: to ask is how are you going to move in

448
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,159
Speaker 4: this thing? You're going to have to writhe on the

449
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,640
Speaker 4: floor like a like a.

450
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 2: Worm, like a worm.

451
00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 4: Yeah.

452
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

453
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 4: It wasn't pretty.

454
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it wasn't. It was very silly. A lot

455
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,119
Speaker 1: of people liked it. What do you think about dressing

456
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 1: up for Halloween?

457
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,280
Speaker 4: Well, I don't do it, but i've for the last

458
00:22:20,520 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 4: five six years, and this will be the sixth or

459
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 4: seventh year I've been a host of the New York

460
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 4: public libraries. Halloween party. Oh nice, And you have to

461
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 4: come dressed as a literary figure or a book or something,

462
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 4: so it stimulates the brain. And I love it, and

463
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 4: people become they get very very ambitious.

464
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 2: Well that's very different. That's different. That's not a Yeah,

465
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 2: that's not an.

466
00:22:44,520 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: Adult like high level prostitute slash nurse party, you know.

467
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:49,240
Speaker 4: No.

468
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't rent appeal to me.

469
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 6: No.

470
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,280
Speaker 1: And if you could dress up as an author, then

471
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:55,679
Speaker 1: you could basically just do whatever address the way you're

472
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:59,240
Speaker 1: dressing anyway, or as a writer or as a literary figure.

473
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 2: Tell me what your favorite fashion city is in the world.

474
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,879
Speaker 4: Oh, New York really, And I say that because this

475
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 4: city accepts you however you want to dress. It's very

476
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 4: very democratic in that way. And you'll stand at a

477
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 4: street corner with thirty nine other people and no two

478
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 4: people are dressed alike. And I love that about the city.

479
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 4: They're fashion Capital's Paris, London, Milan Rome that they tend

480
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 4: to be somewhat formulaic, and people at a certain levels

481
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,440
Speaker 4: tend to all look the same, right, And I enjoy

482
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:40,880
Speaker 4: I enjoy the fact that the city is so incredibly diverse.

483
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:42,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a good point.

484
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, at a certain level, like the

485
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:47,440
Speaker 1: wealthiest people all kind of start to dress the same.

486
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:53,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a uniform almost right, agreed, Yeah that makes sense.

487
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 2: So what was it like when Project Runway.

488
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 1: Approached you and you became after your first season, the

489
00:23:58,480 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 1: biggest breakout star.

490
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 2: How did that hit you?

491
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,960
Speaker 4: Well? Do you know the story of how it all happened?

492
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 2: I don't.

493
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 4: I was chair of the fashion design department at Parsons.

494
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 4: It was January of two thousand and four. The producers

495
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 4: called me to say that they wanted to come to

496
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 4: my office and speak to me about this reality show

497
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 4: they wanted to do about fashion, and my response was

498
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:26,360
Speaker 4: the following. I said, fashion reality. I said, this industry

499
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 4: has enough trouble without that, and they said, well, just

500
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 4: let us come. We'll only require ten minutes. So I

501
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,639
Speaker 4: googled them this is what I'm always grateful for Google,

502
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 4: and found out that they were the Project green Light producers.

503
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:44,960
Speaker 4: So Ben Affleck Matt Damon a reality show about making movies,

504
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 4: and somebody thought, well, they have a lot of integrity

505
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 4: and a seriousness of purpose. So they came and I

506
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,399
Speaker 4: became instantly seduced when they said that they wanted to

507
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,920
Speaker 4: work with real fashion designers, not pick people at rad

508
00:24:57,960 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 4: them off the street and say you, well, make you

509
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:04,000
Speaker 4: a designer. And I got excited, and then I didn't

510
00:25:04,040 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 4: hear anything for months, and then there was an abrupt

511
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 4: phone call saying, we really do want to work you

512
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 4: through it. Now. This was in a capacity as a consultant.

513
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 4: My role on the show did not exist. It was

514
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 4: in no one's vocabulary. So two days before the designers

515
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 4: were arriving, the producers asked me whether I would be

516
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 4: willing to go into the workroom and ask them what

517
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 4: they're doing, and I said, well, it's how I've spent

518
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 4: most of my life, so sure. But I never dreamed

519
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 4: i'd be in the cut of the show. I thought,

520
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 4: as long as they had the designers responding to me,

521
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 4: no one needs to see me, no one needs to

522
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,720
Speaker 4: hear my voice. And accordingly I didn't go to the

523
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,479
Speaker 4: premiere party. I thought, well, if I'm not in the show,

524
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,640
Speaker 4: it'll be rather humiliating. And if I am in the show,

525
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 4: what is this show? Is it? Sexual antics? In the

526
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 4: apartment building where the designers are staying, because I will

527
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 4: also tell you our first five seasons were on Bravo

528
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,040
Speaker 4: when we were taping season one. Well, no one certainly

529
00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 4: knew who I was, including Bravo. So I'm standing in

530
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,320
Speaker 4: the real and metaphorical dark of the of the Parsons

531
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:13,280
Speaker 4: auditorium where we were taping the fashion show and the

532
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 4: judges deliberation, and this woman standing next to me I

533
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 4: didn't know, turned to me and said, who's going to

534
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 4: want to watch this? This is like watching paint dry?

535
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 4: And I said to her, you were corroborating my worst fears.

536
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 4: So after she left, I asked someone who was that

537
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,800
Speaker 4: grumpy gus and they said, oh, that's Lauren's Eelasnik, the

538
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 4: president of Bravo.

539
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 2: Oh how funny, I know, Laura, Yeah for sure. So

540
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:43,439
Speaker 2: what happened?

541
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: Are you are able to talk about what happened with

542
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: Project Runway or is that not?

543
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:48,359
Speaker 2: Do you not want to talk about that?

544
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 7: Oh?

545
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 4: I can talk about anything with you.

546
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, what happened?

547
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 4: Are you thinking of something specific?

548
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 2: Well, I mean you're not doing the show anymore.

549
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 4: I'll be perfectly transparent about it. I was invited to

550
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 4: the party.

551
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: I see.

552
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 4: My agent called the producers to say, we understand, how

553
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 4: do you signed up? We haven't heard a thing about

554
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 4: Tim and they said we don't want him.

555
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry.

556
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,359
Speaker 4: Yeah wow. I mean it was devastating at first, but

557
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,200
Speaker 4: as I said earlier, things happened for a reason, huh.

558
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 4: And I feel extremely lucky to have had nineteen seasons

559
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 4: of the show sixteen with Heidi, and I have a

560
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 4: beautiful Emmy sitting on my kitchen counter. Yeah, so no complaints.

561
00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 4: I feel very very very lucky.

562
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 2: Great. Great.

563
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, you got a lot out of that show,

564
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: and that show got a lot out of you.

565
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 2: So many people, especially queer people.

566
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: Have such a role model in you, and you've set

567
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: such a high standard for so many queer people and

568
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 1: regular people too. But you really are somebody that so

569
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: many queer people look up to. I wonder when you

570
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: were growing up, did you have any one you looked

571
00:27:57,880 --> 00:27:58,119
Speaker 1: up to?

572
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 4: It was so hard And I grew up in the

573
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 4: fifties and the sixties. There were the decorators in the

574
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 4: Doris Day movies who were not role models I wanted

575
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 4: to have. There was Paul Lynde as Uncle Arthur un Bewitched.

576
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 4: Everyone was very flamboyant, and I thought, that's not who

577
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 4: I am. But I will also say it wasn't until

578
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 4: my late teens that I came to terms with my sexuality.

579
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 4: I knew what I wasn't before then, but I didn't

580
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 4: know what I was, and no role models in that

581
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,960
Speaker 4: regard were non existent.

582
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 2: I have to say yeah.

583
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 4: And also, homosexuality was considered a mental illness until the

584
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 4: American Medical Association or the American Psychiatric Association, whichever it was,

585
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 4: removed it from the list in nineteen seventy two. So

586
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 4: the whole time I was growing up, it was thought

587
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 4: that this is something that's extremely bad and needs to

588
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 4: be cured.

589
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: It's unimaginable to think, I mean, even now that we're

590
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 1: in this kind of administration and all of these things

591
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: are up in the air, it's just unimaginable to think

592
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,320
Speaker 1: about a time growing up that like what a muzzle

593
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: that puts on so many people?

594
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: What a muzzle? You know?

595
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: It is to have a government tell you something is

596
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: illegal that you that is a natural feeling in your body,

597
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: like that is a it's perfectly natural to have someone

598
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: say no, that's that's not true.

599
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 2: You're not real, your feelings are invalid.

600
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: We decide I can't get over that, Like I can't

601
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:31,160
Speaker 1: get over government's interference and choices like that.

602
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 4: I can't.

603
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: It's just crazy. It's like, you don't want an abortion,

604
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: then don't get one. You don't want to be gay,

605
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: then don't be gay. You don't have to be gay.

606
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 2: No one is making people be gay or transition. Nobody.

607
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 2: That's not true. It's not true.

608
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 1: It's all just it's all crazy, you know. I wonder

609
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: what you think about this. I have an older gay

610
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: gentleman in my life, and I remember, like a couple

611
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: of years ago, we were in London and he was

612
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: bemoaning the whole trans movement, saying that it's really hurtful

613
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: to include them the LGBTQ community, And I was like,

614
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: wait a second. You guys went through this yourselves, like

615
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: in the nineties.

616
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 2: What are you talking about? How could you possibly not

617
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 2: want to invite everyone in?

618
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: So I'm interested to hear your take on that, which

619
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,120
Speaker 1: I guess is you obviously support transitional people.

620
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 4: Oh I do. I will say, though, I'll confess something

621
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 4: that I actually stand by. This happened years ago. I

622
00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:33,800
Speaker 4: was asked by a fashion publication how I feel about

623
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 4: trans women walking the runway during fashion week, and I said,

624
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 4: and I stand by it still, I said, I'm not

625
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 4: a fan. And the reason I'm not a fan is

626
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 4: because the fashion industry is always looking for a muse

627
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 4: who defies a woman's shape. And you know, we've had

628
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 4: eating disorders, and we had lengthening that was happening in

629
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:05,160
Speaker 4: the Eastern Europe, anything to make the model look longer, taller, skinnier,

630
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:11,000
Speaker 4: and in the case of a male who's transitioned to female,

631
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 4: there are no hips. And that was my objection. I'm

632
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 4: all for. I'm a huge supporter of trans individuals. I'm

633
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 4: about a young trans woman I used to fence with

634
00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,480
Speaker 4: has since this new administration gone undercover. But it's the

635
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 4: intimidation of this administration.

636
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,720
Speaker 1: As if it's not enough of a struggle to deal

637
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: with an issue alone that you need. You know, I

638
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: have so many friends who have children who are trans

639
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:42,200
Speaker 1: and the worry and the fear and the constant daily

640
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: fear of something happening. You're already scared when you put

641
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: a child out into the world. It's already scary. It's

642
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 1: scary to have your kids go to school and possibly

643
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: get shot. It's scary to get you know, have your

644
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,320
Speaker 1: kids be out in public when you don't. When we

645
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,080
Speaker 1: live in such an unsafe country right now, and people are,

646
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: you know, using violence to express themselves. Imagine having that

647
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,959
Speaker 1: muzzle be put on you like as if, as if

648
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,160
Speaker 1: you can choose to not have those feelings. It's just

649
00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: it's so sickening on every level. On a much lighter note,

650
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: I had no idea you were a fencer.

651
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, wow. I started fencing very late in life,

652
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 4: at age sixty two, so ten years ago.

653
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 2: Oh damn, that's so cute.

654
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 4: It's a fantastic sport. It's a workout for the body

655
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,840
Speaker 4: and a workout for the brain. Now with a tremendously

656
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 4: long history, it's wonderful.

657
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, that is cool.

658
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 1: I need to learn a little bit more about fencing.

659
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: I'm not educated enough about fencing.

660
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 4: Well I wasn't either, Chelsea. It's been a tremendous education.

661
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 2: What got you interested in fencing?

662
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 4: I was being interviewed by a very dynamic young man

663
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 4: and I didn't know anything about him, and he shared

664
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 4: with me that he's a three time Olympian and a

665
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 4: silver medalist in fencing, and that he had just opened

666
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 4: a fencing club on the Upper side it's at the

667
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,400
Speaker 4: Upper West Side, that's my neighborhood. So I went to

668
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 4: visit him, and I was enraptured with this activity, this action,

669
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 4: all of it, including the uniform. And I became his

670
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 4: eighth student. He now has over four hundred. Yeah. So

671
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 4: I was there at the inception of this club, and

672
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 4: it's just it's very, very thrilling. It's also well, I

673
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 4: have to tell you. On Sundays, we all arrive at

674
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,160
Speaker 4: the club, I mean those who want to participate, sorry,

675
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 4: or this is our church. In fact, it's in a

676
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 4: synagogue the club. So you bout everyone at the club

677
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 4: on Sunday, regardless of age or gender. And I'm old,

678
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 4: I'm slow, I know it. And this is a speedy sport,

679
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 4: at least saber fencing is. I've only won one bout

680
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 4: and it was against a nine year old girl who

681
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 4: was about three and a half fay till Aria Aria.

682
00:34:07,880 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 4: And I have to tell you, I in the middle

683
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 4: of this bout, and you have to score five points

684
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 4: to win. In the middle of this about I thought,

685
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 4: should I throw.

686
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 2: It to her?

687
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 4: Should I? But I have this this crazy lust for winning.

688
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 4: I thought, I've never been this close to actually winning this,

689
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 4: and I thought I can't do it. So after I won,

690
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 4: she burst into tears. I give her a hug, I

691
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 4: go to her mother, and I apologize at any rate

692
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 4: I persist, but I Aria is still She left the

693
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,080
Speaker 4: club and I see her occasionally in the neighborhood.

694
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: For Aria. For Aria, you know what, it's a great

695
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,200
Speaker 2: story for both of you.

696
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 3: I have a quick question about Like, since you've been

697
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 3: working out, you've been fencing, obviously your musculature has changed.

698
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 3: You know, you've got your traps, they're poppin'.

699
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 2: Have you had to have your suits tailored?

700
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 4: Well? I buy off the rack, but they are tailored. Okay, Okay, yeah,

701
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 4: I don't do custom Okay.

702
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,239
Speaker 3: And has that changed, Like as your body's changed with

703
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,279
Speaker 3: working out and putting on more muscle.

704
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 4: Well, my trainer, Jason knows that I'm not interested in

705
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 4: building muscle. I'm more interested in retaining and gaining strength.

706
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 4: And I started practicing intermittent fasting. I only eat once

707
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 4: a day to keep everything off. Because the older you get,

708
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 4: the less human tabolize. So even if you're just following

709
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 4: the same routine, the same diet, you get bigger. And

710
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 4: I can't afford a new wardrobe.

711
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 2: I mean you look good.

712
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:55,200
Speaker 1: So yeah, Okay, we're going to take a break and

713
00:35:55,200 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: we're going to be right back with Tim Gunn. And

714
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 1: now we're back with Tim Gunn and we're going to

715
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: take some questions. Which is I'm assuming it's going to

716
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: be your favorite part of this show.

717
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 3: Well, our first question comes from Ross. This one's just

718
00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 3: an email. He's a steer Chelsea. My new is Ross

719
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,919
Speaker 3: and I'm a twenty nine year old gay man living

720
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 3: in NYC and working at a multi brand fashion showroom.

721
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:20,800
Speaker 2: My job is amazing.

722
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 3: I get to meet new people, travel to Paris four

723
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:26,320
Speaker 3: times a year, get free clothes, and work directly with designers.

724
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 2: Wow, I work sounds great?

725
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, what's the problem.

726
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 3: So I work on the women's team, and I have

727
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 3: two coworkers who have quickly become some of my best friends.

728
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 3: I've been on the team the longest two and a

729
00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 3: half years, and the other two are roughly the one

730
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 3: year mark. I recently found out that I make about

731
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 3: twelve thousand dollars less than they do for the exact

732
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 3: same job, same title, same workload. I'm starting to feel

733
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 3: resentful of my job and the people I work with

734
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 3: and do not know what to do. Do I ask

735
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 3: for more money, set an ultimatum, do I just leave?

736
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 3: I feel like everyone I talked to has a different perspective.

737
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 2: And solution, and I'm feeling lost. Would love your advice, Ross, Tim,

738
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 2: Would you like to go first?

739
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 4: Well, I have a fair amount of experience with this,

740
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 4: to be perfectly honest.

741
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: Yes, this is interesting. This is the reverse of what

742
00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:16,440
Speaker 2: I normally hear.

743
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering if this is a gay male thing,

744
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: like are gay men getting paid less than women?

745
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:21,960
Speaker 6: Right?

746
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 3: Because the women in this situation are.

747
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 4: In my experience. My experience goes back to Parsons, where

748
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 4: I was for twenty four years, the last seven and

749
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 4: a half of which I was chair of the fashion program.

750
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 4: Prior to that, I had been teaching, and later in

751
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 4: my term at Parsons, I had an additional responsibility as

752
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 4: associate dean, and as associate dean, department chairs reported to me,

753
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:49,719
Speaker 4: for instance, and full time faculty, so I knew what

754
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 4: people made and the department chairs made a fair amount

755
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,279
Speaker 4: of money, certainly more than I made. But I was

756
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 4: an associate dean it was completely different. So then I

757
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 4: become the chair of fashion design. There are two hundred

758
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:07,240
Speaker 4: and thirty students, it grows to more than eight hundred.

759
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 4: I'm making so much less than the other department chairs,

760
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 4: and I know why. It's because they're moving forward my

761
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 4: salary and they can only add a certain percentage to

762
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 4: it from when I started, and new people coming in

763
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 4: were always making more money. There were full time faculty

764
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,439
Speaker 4: at Parsons in my department who were making more money

765
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 4: than I was, so revenge can be very sweet. I

766
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 4: was going through a reappointment review, which happens supposedly every

767
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,480
Speaker 4: five years, but mine had been postponed because of the

768
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:46,359
Speaker 4: department growth and things changing in the department rather dramatically,

769
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 4: and that was my doing with the faculty, so I

770
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 4: was up for reappointment review. And when I was associate dean,

771
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 4: I oversaw reappointment reviews, so I knew intimately what one

772
00:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,759
Speaker 4: had to do. And I kept being told that I

773
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,120
Speaker 4: had to bring the dean the broomstick of the wicket,

774
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,720
Speaker 4: which of the west, and I kept doing it until

775
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 4: we reached an impasse where I thought, I can't do this.

776
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 4: I'm not able to do what you want me to do.

777
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,200
Speaker 4: But I'm said it to myself. At the same time,

778
00:39:17,560 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 4: the CEO of Liz Claiborne had come across the street.

779
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:24,879
Speaker 4: We're across the street from each other too, and drop

780
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 4: this incredible surprise in my lap. He wanted me to

781
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,879
Speaker 4: be his first hire and his chief creative officer over

782
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:40,040
Speaker 4: forty six brands. And I had this wonderful revenge moment

783
00:39:40,120 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 4: with the Dean where I made an appointment to see him.

784
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 4: I brought him an envelope and he asked me, is

785
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 4: this what I want? And I said, I am absolutely

786
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 4: certain it's what you want? And what He had been

787
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 4: asking me for commendations from fashion educators in Europe, and

788
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,160
Speaker 4: I thought I know one person, but he said, well,

789
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 4: I'm very disappointed. I need three, and I thought this

790
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 4: is total bs. So I loved watching him open the

791
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,480
Speaker 4: envelope as he realized that this was my letter of resignation.

792
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 4: And I got back to my office and the president

793
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 4: of the university called and was screaming, you owe me

794
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 4: a year, You owe me a year. I said, you know,

795
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 4: I've been here for twenty four years. You owe me

796
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:36,479
Speaker 4: a bull shanz But what's the moral here? I don't

797
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 4: believe in ultimatums. I believe that this young man should

798
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 4: shop himself around the industry and look for another opportunity,

799
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,239
Speaker 4: because it's demoralizing to know that people who came in

800
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 4: after you are making so much more.

801
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: But also there's no harm in asking, is there? I mean,

802
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 1: why not ask first and say I know that they're

803
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 1: making more more than me. So like did they did?

804
00:41:02,719 --> 00:41:03,879
Speaker 1: He say they came in after him?

805
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 6: Yeah?

806
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:05,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, like a year and a half.

807
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: I mean, and you could do both.

808
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: You could ask and the shop or absolutely to what

809
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: Tim is saying, but also ask you never know. I mean,

810
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: I mean, they've already indicated that they don't respect you

811
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: because they're paying these.

812
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 2: Two women more.

813
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 1: But there is no harm in asking, And you know,

814
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: it's good. It's a good I think it's a good

815
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:21,520
Speaker 1: exercise to ask.

816
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 2: For what you are.

817
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 7: Well.

818
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 4: I don't disagree at all. In fact, I agree. It's

819
00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,439
Speaker 4: nice though to have something in your back pocket. Yeah,

820
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 4: because until I started making more money in a matter

821
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 4: of speaking, because I want you to know the first,

822
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 4: when I'm still a persons, I was making almost nothing

823
00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 4: off a project run money. So it wasn't as though,

824
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,560
Speaker 4: oh I have this additional incime and I'm double dipping.

825
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 4: It's nice to have something in your back pocket, just

826
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 4: in case, because I always thought if I lose my job,

827
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 4: I can't afford my rent. I mean, I'll really be destitute.

828
00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 4: So it's a better fuck you if in fact the

829
00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 4: negotiating meeting, if it goes awry, you can just walk

830
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 4: and just say, okay, I'm out of here now. And

831
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 4: you know what's interesting, going back to my situation at Parsons,

832
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 4: they could have offered me more money. It wouldn't have

833
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 4: to be as much as Liz Claiborne was offering. If

834
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 4: it had been twenty thousand dollars, I would have stayed.

835
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 4: Was because I enviisioned my entire life remaining at Parson

836
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 4: or my working life remaining at Parsons. There was no

837
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 4: effort towards that. None. I'll also tell you that Diane

838
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,560
Speaker 4: Van Persenberg is a dear friend, and she was a

839
00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 4: board member at Parsons. And after the call from the president,

840
00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:47,400
Speaker 4: I received a call from her and she said, you

841
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 4: can't do this. You've done so much work in the

842
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 4: fashion department, You've repositioned it. And I said, Diane, let

843
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 4: me cut to the chase, and I told her how

844
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 4: much I was making, and she said, without missing a

845
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 4: beat leave now. It's good happen, but there was never

846
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,640
Speaker 4: an effort to pay more.

847
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, of course, because people are going to get

848
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 1: away with whatever they can get away with, right.

849
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,919
Speaker 3: Right, Ross, Well, you have your answer and good luck.

850
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 3: Our first caller today is Sydney and she's twenty eight

851
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:16,440
Speaker 3: Sydney sweetye, and.

852
00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,439
Speaker 2: I would like to talk to her. Actually, she says,

853
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 2: you're Chelsea.

854
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 3: I've been with my boyfriend for five years. Our life

855
00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: is pretty good, except for our sex life. We started

856
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,120
Speaker 3: dating when we were both twenty three years old and

857
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,359
Speaker 3: have hit the many young adult milestones together, job and career,

858
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,919
Speaker 3: bouncing grief, living with a partner for the first time,

859
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 3: losing friendships, et cetera. At the beginning, our sex life

860
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: was fun, but after the one year mark, it just

861
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,319
Speaker 3: fell off. He does not show outward interest, even though

862
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:45,239
Speaker 3: he says he thinks about it often. He has expressed

863
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 3: his lack of insight on what he thinks about his sexuality.

864
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 3: He grew up Catholic but no longer practices, and was

865
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:52,720
Speaker 3: taught that it was a bad thing, so he hadn't

866
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 3: taken the time to discover what it could look like

867
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 3: for him. He told me that It was honestly easier

868
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 3: in the beginning when we were casually hooking up because

869
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 3: love was an involved yet. But now that he loves

870
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 3: and respects me, the way he cares doesn't align with

871
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 3: how he viewed sex. Then I figured once we settled

872
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,799
Speaker 3: into real adult life that part would work itself out.

873
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 3: But now we barely have sex. I've tried asking pointed questions,

874
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 3: giving him space, tried telling him to man up, tried

875
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 3: the nurturing approach. We've tried therapy.

876
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: I've asked if.

877
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 3: He just never wants to have sex, because then at

878
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 3: least I would have an answer, and nothing has worked.

879
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:26,560
Speaker 3: He does have OCD and says things like I want

880
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 3: it to be spontaneous, but I also want to feel

881
00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 3: clean and prepared. He acknowledges that those two things clash,

882
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: and I can tell he knows he's disappointing me. We

883
00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:36,319
Speaker 3: talk about it a lot, but I am tired of

884
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 3: talking and I just want to fuck like the girl

885
00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 3: I used to be in the past. There's a lot

886
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,720
Speaker 3: of love in this relationship despite this. We live well together,

887
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 3: have a great group of friends, have future goals, and

888
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 3: we're touchy with each other. But it's cute, not sexy.

889
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:48,399
Speaker 2: I do love him.

890
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 3: Dearly dating and men in general are both scary as

891
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 3: fuck and if a guy ticks all the boxes, but

892
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 3: one should we really break up over this?

893
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 1: Sydney Hi, this is our special guest him gun Hi Hi, Sydney.

894
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 2: So Tim celibate. I'm celibate in the moment.

895
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: Catherine probably at sex on her way here today with

896
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: her husband. He also works on the podcast and they're

897
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:14,880
Speaker 1: very horny, especially in the car. Okay, so you're not married?

898
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:18,560
Speaker 2: No? Right? And how how long have you guys been

899
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,440
Speaker 2: together in total? Five years?

900
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: I mean, sex is a pretty big box to check

901
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: for you. I started out with Tim being celibate because

902
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: that's not important to him as like as it is

903
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: to you, and for me it would be important in

904
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 1: a relationship because that would be one of my primary

905
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: reasons to be in a relationship, would be for the sex.

906
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 2: I mean, that would be a big component, you know

907
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:39,439
Speaker 2: what I mean.

908
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 1: I would expect to be having sex on a very

909
00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: regular basis. Otherwise I can hang out with my girlfriends.

910
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: So it's not just one box that he's not checking.

911
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: It's basically one of the kind of foundational aspects of

912
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: a relationship is sexual contact and that can mean a

913
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,799
Speaker 1: variety of things. But if you're not satisfied, then that's

914
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 1: not going to change. And if you've been down the

915
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,800
Speaker 1: road of therapy, you've been down the road of trying

916
00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: different things and you know, doing different things. Like are

917
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: you ready to actually like leave a relationship over this?

918
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 2: I don't know.

919
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,040
Speaker 6: Like I think that my views have changed a little

920
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 6: bit because it doesn't feel as important as.

921
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: It used to. And we do.

922
00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 6: We do have sex, it's just not maybe as often

923
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 6: as I would want. And when we do have sex,

924
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 6: it's really good, Like I'm having a good tis great.

925
00:46:30,719 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 6: No part of me is thinking like maybe I need

926
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,680
Speaker 6: to I think I've been pushing him so much to

927
00:46:35,719 --> 00:46:39,920
Speaker 6: get to my level and like maybe I need to

928
00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:41,960
Speaker 6: think about me for a while.

929
00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 2: I don't know.

930
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would think that, you know, listen, that doesn't

931
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 1: ever work in relationships when we're trying to force something

932
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,960
Speaker 1: on somebody else, It doesn't work that way. It's kind

933
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:52,480
Speaker 1: of like you change your behavior and people change their

934
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,160
Speaker 1: behavior because of your change and your behaviors. That's what happens.

935
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 1: So I would definitely say to do that and focus

936
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: on yourself. Is there any world in which it would

937
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:04,120
Speaker 1: be acceptable to you and or to him to have

938
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 1: sex outside of the relationship.

939
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 6: No, not him.

940
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:10,080
Speaker 2: He's been cheated on before, like in the past.

941
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:13,000
Speaker 6: I think that that would never be like he would

942
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 6: never be comfortable, right.

943
00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:17,160
Speaker 1: Okay, well then you have that answer, so you're not

944
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,239
Speaker 1: going to do that, So okay, so your options are

945
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: to stay in the relationship. I think, why don't you

946
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:25,760
Speaker 1: start with this instead of making like some decision about

947
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: your relationship, why don't you just really pull back the

948
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 1: pressure mode and really catch yourself, like really start focusing

949
00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: on all of the attributes of.

950
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 2: His that you do appreciate and that you do love.

951
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,879
Speaker 1: Remind yourself on a daily basis, write him down every

952
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: morning the three things you love about him? Write that

953
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:43,760
Speaker 1: down every morning, Like what do you like about him today?

954
00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: What was the highlight of your day with him? What

955
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,080
Speaker 1: was a great moment that you had with him? And

956
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,279
Speaker 1: do that for a month to just really get like

957
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: a catalog of where you are in this relationship and

958
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:57,120
Speaker 1: if this is something worth fracturing the relationship or if

959
00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:58,279
Speaker 1: it's something you can live with.

960
00:47:58,560 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 2: But also.

961
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,640
Speaker 1: That if you do pull back, you are going to

962
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: get a different response.

963
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 2: From him. Definitely.

964
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,880
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to be pressured and felt, be bade to

965
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: feel guilty, especially when it's about them performing.

966
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 6: I think if I like gotten my dom er, he

967
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 6: would really appreciate that well.

968
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 3: And that is another big question, is like is there

969
00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:23,959
Speaker 3: a world in which, like he is, it's not about

970
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 3: his pleasure necessarily, but like you're in the mood and

971
00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:29,080
Speaker 3: he can pleasure you. You guys can do that together

972
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 3: and then like he's off the hook, like he doesn't

973
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 3: have to perform in that way.

974
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think he would be happier if that was me,

975
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 6: if I was the one that was just like it's time,

976
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 6: I think. But I've never been that person, so well.

977
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 2: That's another option. I think that's a great option. It's

978
00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:46,080
Speaker 2: a really good solution. And even though that was.

979
00:48:46,080 --> 00:48:48,239
Speaker 1: An option until you guys just brought it up so

980
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: you had the answer to your own question, why are

981
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:50,600
Speaker 1: you calling you.

982
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:55,280
Speaker 6: Well, I don't know how to be a domb ah.

983
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 2: You don't know how to be am. Have you watched

984
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 2: Dying for Sex? Oh?

985
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,760
Speaker 1: Yes I have? Okay, great, you can do what she did.

986
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 1: I mean that was you know, that was it? You

987
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: can say hey, I'm coming home. I want you to

988
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:07,480
Speaker 1: go down on me like I've had a long day,

989
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 1: let's go. I'm gonna go take a shower, whatever, And

990
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:11,960
Speaker 1: then you could go down on me for twenty minutes

991
00:49:12,160 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: or thirty or a fucking hour, like you make the

992
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 1: rules like that. So there's two options you can and

993
00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: you can try both of these approaches. You can pull back,

994
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,120
Speaker 1: like let it, you know, give it some space. That's

995
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,960
Speaker 1: talk about sex before you get into your dom era.

996
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:27,879
Speaker 2: Give it a few months, you know what I mean.

997
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:31,640
Speaker 1: Just pull back, don't pressure him, don't make sex a priority,

998
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,279
Speaker 1: just you know, just do your thing and.

999
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 2: See where that takes you.

1000
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: If in a couple of months nothing has changed, then

1001
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,839
Speaker 1: you I think you should propose that you and learn

1002
00:49:42,840 --> 00:49:45,000
Speaker 1: about it, read about it, go online and read all

1003
00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:47,600
Speaker 1: you can. I mean most people don't start out that

1004
00:49:47,680 --> 00:49:49,919
Speaker 1: way as doms. They learn about it and they're like, oh,

1005
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 1: this sounds like a me. I just listen to a

1006
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: great podcast about this woman who is domb and I

1007
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,560
Speaker 1: was like, oh, she's like an extreme marathon her and

1008
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,040
Speaker 1: she just like loved I mean, well she was into

1009
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: BDSM too so, but she was extreme marathon and she

1010
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,439
Speaker 1: loved the pain in her body that she felt from

1011
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 1: like hurting herself and hurting herself, and she wanted to

1012
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: feel that in the bedroom and she wanted to feel

1013
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: This is a little bit different than what you're talking about. Obviously,

1014
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 1: it's another extension. But and I was like listening to

1015
00:50:16,840 --> 00:50:19,359
Speaker 1: this podcasts. It's that New York Times podcast that talks

1016
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 1: about relationships, and I was like, oh, I have a friend.

1017
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: I've sent it to my friend who's an extreme marathon

1018
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:27,279
Speaker 1: or she's like, I'm not into this shit, don't send

1019
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 1: this to me.

1020
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:30,320
Speaker 2: But it was interesting.

1021
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 1: She found out she didn't like it, but you know,

1022
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: she tried it and that was BDSM. So she was

1023
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 1: really trying to like, you know, be in pain and

1024
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: hurt herself, which is not what you're describing.

1025
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 2: So there's a delineation.

1026
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: But yeah, I would say give try some different things

1027
00:50:42,080 --> 00:50:43,120
Speaker 1: to get some different results.

1028
00:50:43,760 --> 00:50:45,160
Speaker 6: Definitely, I agree.

1029
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,880
Speaker 3: Is he in any kind of treatment for his OCD.

1030
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 4: No.

1031
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 6: I think we hit a kind of a wall in

1032
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 6: our therapy sessions and we're going to go to do

1033
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:58,200
Speaker 6: kind of individual for a while. I think it's time

1034
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 6: to stop that part and do some self work.

1035
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1036
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 3: I think that's a good plan, because you know, if

1037
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 3: this is sort of a something that's caused by OCD.

1038
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 3: Just like getting a handle on some of that for

1039
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 3: him and getting some tools might be really helpful in

1040
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 3: this area as well as other areas.

1041
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,839
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think for me, like I'm way too

1042
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 6: tuned into his tendencies of just like the way he

1043
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,239
Speaker 6: likes things and so like, if I see like him

1044
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 6: dissatisfied in his environment, it also pulls me out of it.

1045
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 6: But that's also not my responsibility. So I've kind of

1046
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 6: had a hard time, Like.

1047
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: That's something to bring up in therapy because that's just codependency,

1048
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 1: you know. So yeah, talk to your therapist about that,

1049
00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 1: and just and like do what I suggested, give everything

1050
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: a decent amount of time, give it a month, give

1051
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,680
Speaker 1: it two months, and then and see if anything changes, and.

1052
00:51:45,080 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 2: Keep us posted.

1053
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:51,920
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, bye, thank you bye, thank you bye.

1054
00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:53,720
Speaker 4: That was genius advice.

1055
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 2: Oh Tim, stop it.

1056
00:51:56,400 --> 00:51:58,960
Speaker 1: I mean, have I been more compatible with any guests

1057
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 1: that I've ever had on? Oh Mar, everything that you said? Honestly, Hi, Dug,

1058
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 1: I have my dog here. I wish you could see him.

1059
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: He's so bad, so good looking, and he's so stylish.

1060
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 2: She's very sweet. He is stylish. He's not that sweet.

1061
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:17,800
Speaker 1: Actually he was sweet to me today, which women women,

1062
00:52:17,960 --> 00:52:20,720
Speaker 1: but men He's like, no thanks, which is I wonder where.

1063
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:21,160
Speaker 2: That comes from?

1064
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 4: Is he a certain breed?

1065
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a chow chow and he's all black, so

1066
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:29,160
Speaker 1: I haven't had a black chow chow yet. So he

1067
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: is gorgeous.

1068
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:31,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1069
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:31,319
Speaker 4: Well.

1070
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 3: Our second caller today is Sarah and she is wondering

1071
00:52:34,080 --> 00:52:37,400
Speaker 3: about purpose and her subject line is how much purpose is.

1072
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 2: Too much purpose? Great question.

1073
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:42,439
Speaker 3: Dear Chelsea and Catherine, thank you so much for putting

1074
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:44,759
Speaker 3: your time and energy into this podcast. I'm writing to

1075
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 3: ask about purpose and more specifically, how you identify what

1076
00:52:47,760 --> 00:52:50,040
Speaker 3: your purpose is and how to know how much time

1077
00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 3: and energy you want to put into a specific activity.

1078
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,120
Speaker 3: A bit of background, I'm currently being treated for a

1079
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 3: stage four metastatic colon cancer. Last year, I was diagnosed

1080
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 3: with stage three colon cancer after or what I thought

1081
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 3: was going to be my forty five year old preventive

1082
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 3: care colidoscopy. Instead, the next months included surgery followed by

1083
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 3: twelve rounds of chemotherapy over six months. I thought that

1084
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 3: would be it, but three months after finishing chemo, my

1085
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:15,719
Speaker 3: early detection surveiling indicated that the cancer had returned. More

1086
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 3: testing confirmed metastases in a lymph node, and I was

1087
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,880
Speaker 3: put on another course of chemo for another six months.

1088
00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 3: I currently have a couple treatments left to go before

1089
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,920
Speaker 3: they determined next steps. During the time of shock and

1090
00:53:25,960 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 3: fear of the recurrence, I came across researched back to

1091
00:53:28,600 --> 00:53:31,000
Speaker 3: Anti Cancer Living book and my husband and I read it.

1092
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:33,359
Speaker 3: We made lifestyle changes and took on a mantra of

1093
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,399
Speaker 3: moving forward by saying yes to new opportunities, like selling

1094
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 3: our house and moving into an apartment in the French

1095
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 3: Quarter in New Orleans and taking a last minute trip

1096
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 3: to Las Vegas to see Beyonce. All that said, in

1097
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,359
Speaker 3: the ten days between my chemo treatments, I feel better

1098
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 3: than ever and I have in my adult life. On

1099
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 3: those days, I'm operating at one hundred percent, and I

1100
00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 3: realized before my diagnosis I was consistently at seventy five percent.

1101
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 3: This experience of being a cancer patient, which I still

1102
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:00,719
Speaker 3: find hard to write or say out loud, has left

1103
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:03,240
Speaker 3: me asking what is my purpose in this? I've learned

1104
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 3: so much about the importance of getting kolonoscopies as soon

1105
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,959
Speaker 3: as you can navigating treatments and finding paths to feel

1106
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 3: good that I want to share, but I'm not sure

1107
00:54:11,360 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 3: how much time and energy to put into the sharing?

1108
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 3: Is sharing with close friends and family enough? Do I

1109
00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 3: want to write more of this down and share it

1110
00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 3: with my broader community? How much time and energy do

1111
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 3: I want to put into this? Any guidance on how

1112
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 3: you decide what is the right amount of time and

1113
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 3: energy for you to put into a project or purpose

1114
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 3: would be much appreciated. Love all your work, but especially

1115
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:31,800
Speaker 3: this pod which I often put on during chemo treatments

1116
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,680
Speaker 3: to drown out the folks blaring Fox News in the

1117
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 3: Infusion center. Love you, Sarah Ah.

1118
00:54:38,280 --> 00:54:40,600
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine having to deal with that and

1119
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: then listening to Fox News. Jesus Hi Sarah Hi, beautiful

1120
00:54:46,960 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: human being. This is our special guest, Tim gunn oh

1121
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,040
Speaker 1: Hi Dam Sarah.

1122
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 4: You are a beautiful human being and quite a hero.

1123
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:55,840
Speaker 2: I mean just that letter alone. Listen.

1124
00:54:56,440 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 1: I love this question because you are You are living

1125
00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:03,680
Speaker 1: proof that you need to be living.

1126
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 2: You know what I mean?

1127
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:08,319
Speaker 1: While you're here, live live it up. I love to

1128
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 1: Vegas and went to go see Beyonce. I love that

1129
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: you gave up your house about an apartment in the

1130
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 1: French Quarter, like, these are things that you do to

1131
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,839
Speaker 1: live like and I understand that there's the purpose sense

1132
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,440
Speaker 1: of this question. I understand completely what you mean. How

1133
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:25,799
Speaker 1: much are you allowed to be selfish in like you know,

1134
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:28,359
Speaker 1: under the umbrella of selfishness and just do your own

1135
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,960
Speaker 1: thing and like take care of yourself and how much

1136
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,240
Speaker 1: do you need to give back? I would honestly say,

1137
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 1: with everything that you've been through, it is really the

1138
00:55:38,280 --> 00:55:40,279
Speaker 1: most important thing is to take care of you and

1139
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: your happiness and the time that you are here to

1140
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 1: enjoy yourself as much as you possibly can. You've been

1141
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:50,319
Speaker 1: through hell and you've handled it with a plum. I'm

1142
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:52,359
Speaker 1: sure there have been very dark days, and I'm sure

1143
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:54,719
Speaker 1: there have been lighter days, but a heavy it's a

1144
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,600
Speaker 1: heavy burden to bear, and I think what you're doing

1145
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,680
Speaker 1: is perfect. The fact that you're contemplating means that you're

1146
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,640
Speaker 1: thinking of others during such a time where you know

1147
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:07,080
Speaker 1: your health is at risk. And I just want to say,

1148
00:56:07,320 --> 00:56:12,000
Speaker 1: whatever you feel moved to share to do, outreach to

1149
00:56:12,160 --> 00:56:15,239
Speaker 1: help and share your experience to others, then do that.

1150
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:18,919
Speaker 1: But you don't have to adhere to a certain set

1151
00:56:18,920 --> 00:56:22,440
Speaker 1: of guidelines that are just that are arbitrary. You know

1152
00:56:22,440 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: what I mean, You don't have to you don't.

1153
00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 2: Have to help other people.

1154
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:29,760
Speaker 1: You actually really have to help yourself because by helping yourself,

1155
00:56:30,000 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 1: the need to help others is almost kind of like

1156
00:56:32,960 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 1: it's just a natural progression of things that are going

1157
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 1: to happen. You know, people see you carrying yourself in

1158
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: a certain way. Even at when you're getting your chemo,

1159
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:43,000
Speaker 1: people see you know, people can go in there and

1160
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: be down and out, and you going in there and

1161
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 1: having a positive attitude and being hopeful or being optimistic

1162
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:53,000
Speaker 1: or being kind is already showing and demonstrating something to others.

1163
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:55,680
Speaker 1: And as far as you sharing, I really would just

1164
00:56:55,719 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: say you are the number one priority, and whatever excess

1165
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: or extra time you feel like you have, then you

1166
00:57:01,920 --> 00:57:04,560
Speaker 1: could go and do those things. But by no means

1167
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:07,280
Speaker 1: this is not your job to educate people in cancer.

1168
00:57:07,520 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 4: Tim what do you think, Well, I'm reflecting upon something

1169
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:15,760
Speaker 4: Sarah that you wrote about writing. I think you really

1170
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:21,360
Speaker 4: should keep a diary chronicle your journey, even if it's

1171
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 4: one hundred words a day. I think it would be

1172
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 4: purging and cathartic for you, and it's something tangible that

1173
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,520
Speaker 4: you can also share if you choose to do so.

1174
00:57:32,640 --> 00:57:35,560
Speaker 4: But I think the most wonderful thing about writing, and

1175
00:57:35,920 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 4: I'm a writer, so I do this myself. One of

1176
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:42,920
Speaker 4: the most wonderful things about writing is you wrap your

1177
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 4: brain around how to articulate the feelings that you have

1178
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:50,920
Speaker 4: and it can just be extremely helpful and can give

1179
00:57:50,960 --> 00:57:53,280
Speaker 4: you a lot of insight to things. But I am

1180
00:57:53,640 --> 00:57:59,200
Speaker 4: completely blown away by your courage and your tenacity and

1181
00:57:59,240 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 4: your will to live. It's it's extremely inspiring.

1182
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 7: Thank you, Thank you all for all of that. I

1183
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 7: really appreciate it. It's helpful to hear that like encouragement

1184
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 7: of just like what do I like? What am I feeling?

1185
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,240
Speaker 7: And do that and like one thing at a time.

1186
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 7: And I think, to Tim's note, Chelsea, no, you've mentioned

1187
00:58:20,320 --> 00:58:22,720
Speaker 7: this a lot. Like when I do write, I do

1188
00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 7: a gratitude list and I try to make it a

1189
00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 7: like a long list, so then I have to get

1190
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:32,160
Speaker 7: into like little like little things that you wouldn't think about.

1191
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 7: And I kind of have a mantra of just like

1192
00:58:35,120 --> 00:58:39,080
Speaker 7: you know I'm living today, I'm living today, Well what

1193
00:58:39,400 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 7: you know, I'm living for, and then I kind of

1194
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:44,400
Speaker 7: fill in the blank, which kind of helps, just like

1195
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:48,600
Speaker 7: every day be like, like you said, appreciative of like, oh,

1196
00:58:48,840 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 7: you know I have this day and what's beautiful about

1197
00:58:51,560 --> 00:58:51,919
Speaker 7: the day.

1198
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 2: Well, here's a question for you too.

1199
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 3: There are a lot of people obviously listening to this,

1200
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 3: so you're already helping them by like a reminder to

1201
00:58:58,040 --> 00:58:59,880
Speaker 3: get your call and ask av like go in for check.

1202
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 3: Because you've learned so much. Is there anything that you'd

1203
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 3: say to our listeners about what else they should know,

1204
00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:06,760
Speaker 3: what else they should be screening for.

1205
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 7: Yeah, I would say, you know, like I said, I

1206
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 7: am somebody that's like, okay, follows the rules. So I

1207
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 7: was like, I'm forty five, I need to get my colonoscope,

1208
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,920
Speaker 7: so you know, talk to your doctors about that. And

1209
00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:22,919
Speaker 7: I would also say, you know, as I thought, oh,

1210
00:59:22,920 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 7: I don't have any symptoms, I'm going to be fine.

1211
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,720
Speaker 7: And then when it happened, I could kind of look

1212
00:59:27,800 --> 00:59:31,360
Speaker 7: back and see like, Okay, there were changes happening, and

1213
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 7: I was kind of saying, Oh, it's just stress or

1214
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,280
Speaker 7: it's just this or just that. So it'd say, you know,

1215
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:41,240
Speaker 7: if you feel something changing or different, like ask your

1216
00:59:41,280 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 7: doctor and just talk to them and like ask questions

1217
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:48,440
Speaker 7: because you know, if we would have you know, you

1218
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 7: could say what if, But if like I would have

1219
00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 7: gone in maybe a year earlier, it might have been

1220
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 7: a different situation. So just listening, I think, listening to

1221
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:01,800
Speaker 7: our bodies and when we something feels different or not right,

1222
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:03,320
Speaker 7: asking those questions.

1223
01:00:03,480 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Sarah, Yeah, Sarah, thank you so much.

1224
01:00:06,400 --> 01:00:09,240
Speaker 1: And like again back to the purpose. I think a

1225
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: lot about my purpose is like I think a lot

1226
01:00:11,520 --> 01:00:15,640
Speaker 1: about just spreading light. You know, like I've been going

1227
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:18,520
Speaker 1: through a really rough time recently, and every morning I'm like,

1228
01:00:18,960 --> 01:00:22,080
Speaker 1: and this is immaterial stuff, you know, stupid stuff, but

1229
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,040
Speaker 1: just a fucking emotional toll. It's taken on me, and

1230
01:00:25,080 --> 01:00:28,600
Speaker 1: I am just like every morning, I'm like, Okay, try again.

1231
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 2: Today, try again to be light.

1232
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,160
Speaker 1: To be other people's light, Like get out of your

1233
01:00:33,200 --> 01:00:37,480
Speaker 1: own problems and be other people's light, like demonstrate light.

1234
01:00:37,720 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 1: And that's not to say that's not what I'm saying

1235
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 1: to you. That's what I say to myself. But you

1236
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,480
Speaker 1: can do the same thing with you with your situation,

1237
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: to demonstrate grace, love, gratitude to all of the people

1238
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,160
Speaker 1: that you come into like contact with and make that

1239
01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:56,320
Speaker 1: a daily practice, and that's there's purpose in that that's immeasurable.

1240
01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:57,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, thank you.

1241
01:00:58,080 --> 01:01:01,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we wish you well, sending you lots of love.

1242
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:03,160
Speaker 2: Thank you for appreciate it.

1243
01:01:03,680 --> 01:01:04,200
Speaker 7: Thank you.

1244
01:01:04,600 --> 01:01:08,240
Speaker 1: Okay, bye, Sarah Banks. Okay, we're going to take a break.

1245
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:10,480
Speaker 1: Tim and I are getting married and we'll be right.

1246
01:01:10,320 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 2: Back and we're back with gun What if I changed

1247
01:01:21,120 --> 01:01:24,680
Speaker 2: my name to Chelsea Gun? I love it, Chelsea Guns.

1248
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:26,600
Speaker 4: I could be Tim Handler.

1249
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 2: Tim Handler.

1250
01:01:27,120 --> 01:01:30,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, that sounds more melifluous. Actually that's got a nice

1251
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:31,680
Speaker 1: ring to it.

1252
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:32,000
Speaker 4: Tim.

1253
01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:33,919
Speaker 2: Okay, Tim, this isn't all.

1254
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:37,760
Speaker 4: Actually listen to this, Chelsea. What we could be gun

1255
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 4: Handler Chelsea.

1256
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:42,080
Speaker 1: And Tim gun Handler and that you have to use

1257
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:44,360
Speaker 1: both of our names when addressing either one of us.

1258
01:01:44,720 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 7: I like that.

1259
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:48,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, to get your your concealed carry person.

1260
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: Okay, Tim Gun, this was absolutely delightful. I loved having

1261
01:01:52,600 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 1: you on. Please come back anytime you want, and thank

1262
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 1: you for sharing everything that you shared today.

1263
01:01:58,760 --> 01:02:01,240
Speaker 4: Oh well, thank you for thank having me on the show.

1264
01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,040
Speaker 4: And I love being here with you and Catherine and

1265
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 4: I would love to return.

1266
01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, we'll definitely have you back.

1267
01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:08,520
Speaker 4: Can't wait.

1268
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,600
Speaker 5: Word of the Week Bilingual edition. Our first word of

1269
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 5: the week is du charse verb Spanish to shower. Du

1270
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 5: charsee is Chelsea's Spanglish for you'd better shower your swamp ass.

1271
01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 5: If you're wearing ath leisure, du charsee. Our second word

1272
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 5: of the week is bon chance, Franglish for good luck.

1273
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 2: Bon chance is a perfect.

1274
01:02:36,800 --> 01:02:39,920
Speaker 5: Way to wish someone luck if you're a refined gentleman

1275
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:41,040
Speaker 5: like Tim Gunn.

1276
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:41,960
Speaker 2: Bon chance.

1277
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:47,120
Speaker 1: Okay, guys, I am officially on my high and mighty tour.

1278
01:02:47,640 --> 01:02:52,680
Speaker 1: February nineteenth, Madison, Wisconsin. February twentieth is Milwaukee, Wisconsin. February

1279
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:57,640
Speaker 1: twenty first, Detroit, Michigan. February twenty second, Rama, Ontario. That's

1280
01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:03,280
Speaker 1: Canada for those of you who don't speak Canadia. March thirteenth, Cleveland, Ohio.

1281
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:08,480
Speaker 1: March fourteenth, Columbus, Ohio. March fifteenth, Cincinnati, Ohio. And then

1282
01:03:08,560 --> 01:03:13,040
Speaker 1: March twentieth is Denver, Colorado. March twenty seventh, Portland, Maine.

1283
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:18,480
Speaker 1: March twenty eighth, Providence, Rhode Island. March twenty ninth, Springfield, Massachusetts.

1284
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 1: April tenth is Chicago. I'll be at the Chicago Theater.

1285
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:29,640
Speaker 1: April eleventh Indianapolis, Indiana. April twelfth Louisville, Kentucky. April sixteenth

1286
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:33,760
Speaker 1: is Albuquerque, New Mexico. April seventeenth is Mesa, Arizona. April

1287
01:03:33,800 --> 01:03:36,840
Speaker 1: twenty third is Kansas City, Missouri. April twenty fourth is

1288
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:41,920
Speaker 1: Saint Louis, Missouri. April twenty fifth is Minneapolis, Minnesota. April

1289
01:03:41,920 --> 01:03:46,280
Speaker 1: thirtieth Nashville, Tennessee. May first is Charlotte, North Carolina. May

1290
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: second is Durham, North Carolina. May sixth, I'm doing Netflix

1291
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,560
Speaker 1: as a joke festival. I will be in Los Angeles.

1292
01:03:52,560 --> 01:03:58,440
Speaker 1: That is a new announcement, along with Atlantic City May fifteenth, Saratoga, California,

1293
01:03:58,520 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 1: May sixteenth, Monterey, californ worn May seventeenth, Modesto, California, and

1294
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 1: then June.

1295
01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 2: Fourth Portchester, New York.

1296
01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:10,800
Speaker 1: June fifth is Boston, mass And June twelfth is Portland, Oregon.

1297
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:15,600
Speaker 1: And then Seattle is June thirteenth. So suck on that, everybody.

1298
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:17,919
Speaker 1: Go to Chelseahandler dot com for tickets.

1299
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,000
Speaker 5: If you want advice from Chelsea, write into Dear Chelsea

1300
01:04:21,080 --> 01:04:24,440
Speaker 5: podcast at gmail dot com. Dear Chelsea is a production

1301
01:04:24,640 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 5: of iHeartMedia.

1302
01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:28,919
Speaker 3: Follow Chelsea on all socials at Chelsea Handler and find

1303
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 3: Katherine on TikTok at flash Cadabra.

1304
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:35,320
Speaker 5: Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brandon Dickert executive

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Speaker 5: producer Catherine Law.

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Speaker 3: Find full video episodes and minisodes now on Netflix, and

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Speaker 3: get tickets to see Chelsea live at Chelseahandler dot com