1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: Hello, welcome to the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast, where 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: we're talking to some of the biggest names in the industry. 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding. I'm Michael Barr and guess who is 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: live in studio. I'm not talking about just on the phone, 5 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,119 Speaker 1: which would have been fun, but no, you are here, 6 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: live in studio. Boris Gardner, chief executive officer of La 7 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: Liga North America. Boris, sir, thank you so much for 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: joining us right here on the Bloomberg Business of Sports. 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for having me. I've got to 10 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: just start with the basic old man, as you can 11 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: see all this gray hair in my head right now. 12 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: Soccer obviously it is thank you, let me to say 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: we say, we say it right. Football obviously very big abroad, 14 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: catching on here and it's only going to be a 15 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: matter of time before I think it's gonna take over 16 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: one of the four major food groups of sports here 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: in the US. And I'll give you, uh uh small 18 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,839 Speaker 1: data point. When you look at the number of Americans 19 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 1: that are watching sports on TV. For the general market, 20 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: it's usually NFL, NBA, UM MLB, and then soccer. But 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: when you take the eighteen to thirty four year old 22 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: demo NFL sealed first again as we were discussing before, 23 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 1: on the league of their own, but with a sharp 24 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: decline and type. For a second place, you have NBA 25 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: and soccer um and then baseball is is fourth separate 26 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: conversation for another moment. But you see the sport um 27 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: of soccer definitely growing and getting a lot more attention 28 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: with that younger demographic in this country. And I think 29 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 1: that as the country continues to get uh more diverse, 30 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: more multicultural, that trend is only going to continue to accelerate. 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: And you set up La Liga North America in two 32 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: sixteen in the US. Talk about what the goals were 33 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: when you set it up and where you are in 34 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: that trajectory. Yeah, so, uh Lalliga started a process of 35 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: let's say, a journey of growth and transformation in part. 36 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: Yeah no, but but in the US we've been active since. 37 00:02:13,360 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 1: But the whole concept of the league, let's say, looking 38 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: outside of Spain, outside of Europe and more towards the 39 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 1: international markets, started in when the new president arrived and 40 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: basically made some changes that for us here in America, 41 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: seeing the domestic leagues here are pretty obviously normal, but 42 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: that at that point in time in Europe were not 43 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: that common, so very strict financial control so that that 44 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: the clubs were not in massive debt or going bankrupt. UM. 45 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: Centralization of the TV rights, that's something that surprisingly enough 46 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: for a league as you know big let's say in 47 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 1: global at that point from a product perspective, as La Liga, 48 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: it didn't happen. UM. That was passed us our law 49 00:02:57,760 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: in Spain that gave the league the the responsibility to 50 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 1: actually sell the media rights UH in a centralized matter manner, 51 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: and that definitely changed the business UM. And then the 52 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: third one is was it was just basically going aggressively 53 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: into international expansion. UM. When you look at the business 54 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: of the European leagues today at the domestic level, they're 55 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: probably hitting already a ceiling. There's been some media rights 56 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 1: deals from some of the leagues in Europe at the 57 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: domestic level that even have gone backwards a bit UM. 58 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: But if not, you know, in a better case, there's 59 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 1: still um left, no growth left UM. But internationally that's 60 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: where all that growth is coming from. The Premier League 61 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: has done a fantastic job internationally. I think that this 62 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: is going to be the first UH cycle where their 63 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: international revenues are more than domestic revenues, and I think 64 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: that for the rest of the league's like La Liga 65 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: Bundesliga said yeah, that is definitely UH the example that 66 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 1: we're looking at. UM the Premier leagu has started or 67 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: started before on that process, so a lot of the 68 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: rest are catching up. For La Liga specifically, UM, it 69 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 1: was clear that the growth market was the US UM 70 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 1: and that we needed to come here in an aggressive way. 71 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: Of course the largest media market in the world, but 72 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: in that same matter, very very uh competitive and complex. 73 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 1: So we ended up setting up La Liga North America 74 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 1: as a joint venture with a local partner here in 75 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: the US relevant sports UH that is owned by Steven 76 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: Ross and UH. The the desire of La Liga to 77 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: look for a local partner was to get not only 78 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: the expertise UM in the market, but also the backing 79 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:50,000 Speaker 1: of somebody like in this case Stephen Uh. That represented uh, 80 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 1: just a very clear success case for sports and entertainment 81 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: properties in the country. I want to go back to 82 00:04:58,080 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: the mention you had about the demographics of football in 83 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: the US. Football in the US with the accent my 84 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: and I knew that you guys had me when one 85 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: I have four children, youngest seventeen, oldest thirty one, and 86 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: one day I am watching soccer and I'm screaming at 87 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: the set, oh you blew the past, And then my 88 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: youngest one comes in. It's like you all right, dad, 89 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: Oh you're watching soccer. You see you took your Jera's 90 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: all there. I see. So a guy like me now 91 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 1: is starting to creep into that demographic and maybe more 92 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: open into it. But the younger fans, what did they 93 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: know that a guy like me didn't know? So I 94 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: think there's a couple of things. Um, if you've spent 95 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 1: enough time watching soccer football games, uh, they're incredibly exciting. Um. Yes, 96 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: it's ninety minutes. There's not a lot of stop between play, 97 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: so you're playing the two forty five minutes half continuously, um, 98 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: and it's jam packed with action, just play after play, 99 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: very different from what you could potentially see on uh 100 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: American football or baseball. So that's that's the first one. 101 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: Then you have individual personalities that I think, um is 102 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: something that's connecting with young American audiences because you have 103 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: in the same way that you have the Lebron James, 104 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: you know, followers that are following whatever team he goes, 105 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: you have the Cristiano Ronaldo's, the Leonel Messi's UM, and 106 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: people just get completely obsessed with that figure of the 107 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: hero UM. And that's something that soccer has UM and 108 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: that has created all this UH. Let's say, new followers 109 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: that get into the sport, maybe not just because of 110 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: the game, but because of the personalities that are that 111 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: are in the game. UM. Then the second thing is 112 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: UH is the most global sport that there is UM. 113 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: And so when you start seeing what posts on his 114 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: Instagram UM, and the reactions that you're getting from all 115 00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 1: over the world, and then you see him play not 116 00:07:16,320 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: only in his domestically but in the European competitions and 117 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: then with his national team, it just creates a product 118 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: that's available for the fan. So I'm curious, Boris, You've 119 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,960 Speaker 1: got the World Cup coming up. It's going to be 120 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: in North America, US, Mexico, Canada. So these next couple 121 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: of years are going to be critical in terms of 122 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 1: your building up awareness of football in North America, particularly 123 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: the US because clearly it's a big thing in Mexico. UM, 124 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 1: what are the goals here? What you you were saying 125 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: to me earlier that these next couple of years will 126 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: be make it or break it for for soccer in 127 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: the US. Why is that what what needs to happen 128 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: by the World Cup? I think so because if you 129 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: look at the history of the sport, UM, after the 130 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 1: ninety four World Cup, uh, the MLS was created, there 131 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: was definitely a big push, you know, for the sport 132 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 1: and it was one of those inflection points. UM. So 133 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 1: when people look at the World Cup, that is definitely 134 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: gonna be another inflection point. UM. But we should be 135 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: focused not on what happens after, but how that fandom 136 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: and the and the reach of the sport will be 137 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 1: in this country leading up to the World Cup. It 138 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: has to be the biggest event that this country has 139 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: hosted in decades. UM. And that's only gonna come if 140 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: the fandom is there, if people really understand the sport 141 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 1: are following weekending and weekend out from the best players 142 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: in the world in Europe, in South America wherever they play. UM. 143 00:08:55,640 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: And I do think that, UM. We're talking about this 144 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: earlier as well. It's always been the running joke about 145 00:09:02,320 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: you know, soccer being the sport that's about to break 146 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 1: and it's almost going to and UM, I think that 147 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: the main difference today is that you have a series 148 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 1: of inflection points, as I was saying, one being the 149 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:19,120 Speaker 1: World Cup, the other being you know, for the past decade, 150 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: the US women's national team being absolutely dominant globally. UM, 151 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: the nws L being up very competitively even at the 152 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 1: world stage. UM. But it's also about the demographics that 153 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 1: we're chatting about before. UM, the World Cup it is 154 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: going to be that inflection point as an event, but 155 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: the demographics is really what's gonna solidify soccer as one 156 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: of the top four sports in the next you know, 157 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: ten years. In this country. It was about a year 158 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: ago that they came up with the idea of the 159 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: Super League. And I remember when that story came out. 160 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:00,880 Speaker 1: Oh man, I'm thinking, you're gonna do who and the what? Now? What? 161 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,079 Speaker 1: What's going on here? Is it dead? Totally? I think 162 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,959 Speaker 1: it is. UM. I think depends on who you ask, Uh, 163 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: they'll say, well, you know, maybe there's still a legal 164 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 1: case that I think it's that from a cultural perspective, 165 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: beyond whatever the courts send up ruling about the Super League. UM. 166 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: It was clear that in those forty eight hours where 167 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: it was a topic of conversation. The fans in England 168 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: particularly really show that they were going to do anything 169 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: that they could to block it and oppose it, and 170 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: they did. They ran out on the pitch and you 171 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: know to say, hey, oh heck, no, we're not gonna 172 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: have that. They're basically threatening to boycott, right because when 173 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: you really understand the cultural impact of football in these countries, 174 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: you know, some of these league's are a hundred and 175 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: fifty years old. It's just been part of the culture 176 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: for so long that wanting to come in and change 177 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: that and take it away from the fans, it's just 178 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: gonna be impossible. So I personally think it's that UM. 179 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: I think they're the industry of football at a global level. 180 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 1: UH needs a lot of rethinking, specifically as it relates 181 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: to calendar. That's the biggest topic of discussion right now. 182 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: Are we having too many games? Are the players getting 183 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: enough rest? You know that those are conversations that need 184 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: to happen between FIFA with the international calendar, with the 185 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 1: confederations in their in their domestic calendars, and there is 186 00:11:41,520 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 1: it seems to be UH an overload of competitions and 187 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 1: everybody trying to create something else to just get more 188 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: games in. They need to take a step back, take 189 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 1: a breather, look at the calendar in the year and 190 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: really understand what are those competitions that will make the 191 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,840 Speaker 1: product better, and they'll be better for the consumers, be 192 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,360 Speaker 1: the fans and the stadiums or the viewers at home. 193 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,319 Speaker 1: That sounds great, but sports rights, live, sports rights, the 194 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,320 Speaker 1: value of those are exploding and it's hard for team 195 00:12:12,320 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: owners and league officials not to look at that and say, 196 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: we've got to jump on this while we can. H 197 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: You talked about the Super League, Michael Barr Barcelona, Real Madrid. 198 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: Those are two big Spanish teams, and then the La 199 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: Laga has made up a lot of other teams besides 200 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: those two, but you don't hear about the other ones. 201 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 1: What does La Liga have to do to make sure 202 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 1: that there's more parody, maybe not in play quality of play, 203 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: but just in recognition and understanding that La Liga goes 204 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: beyond Real Madrid and Barcelona. So the first thing is 205 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: that I do think that the parity on the competition 206 00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:51,920 Speaker 1: level is very important on the pitch because when you 207 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: always have one team that's completely dominating a league, and 208 00:12:56,520 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: then before it starts, you know who's gonna win, and 209 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 1: there's not enough drama, you know, throughout the season, fans 210 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:08,679 Speaker 1: get bored, um and there's some extreme you know cases 211 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: across the world, but in Europe specifically. Um. You look 212 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: at the French League, Um, you look at the German League. 213 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: There's been one winner for I don't know how long. Um. 214 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:23,640 Speaker 1: And when you look at the rosters and the business 215 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: of each of the clubs and what one club makes 216 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: versus the other, it's clear why that in balance exists. 217 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: On the La Liga side, Uh, what we've been doing 218 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 1: with the financial controls and with the way that you 219 00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: split the revenues from the TV rights is trying to 220 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: shorten that gap between the first one and the last one. 221 00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: So before the financial controls and the centralized TV rights, 222 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 1: the difference between what the number one team made and 223 00:13:51,280 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: the twentieth team made was over ten x. Right now 224 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: is a little bit under three x. So yeah, there 225 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 1: has to be difference, and there's a balance be because 226 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 1: as much as you want to give all the teams 227 00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: the same amount of money so that they have the 228 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: same salary, caps, etcetera, you're not just competing in the 229 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 1: domestic league, but you're competing with the European leagues as 230 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: well in the Champions League and all of the other competitions. 231 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: So you need to be competitive at both levels. Um. 232 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: But I do think that something that needs to be 233 00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: done uh more and needs to be controlled even more 234 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: is that uh the salary caps at a European level, 235 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,920 Speaker 1: um and they spends and there's teams you know that 236 00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: often get referred to the state back teams, etcetera, that 237 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: just get uh sources of revenue that are not available 238 00:14:41,000 --> 00:14:43,840 Speaker 1: to other teams, and so that definitely creates an imbalance 239 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: in the competition. Um. But I think that at the 240 00:14:46,920 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: domestic league level, at the confederation level, with the UFA specifically, 241 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 1: they are you know, understanding that that is an issue 242 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 1: and they're trying to set up guidelines to to solve that. 243 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 1: I remember you were saying that, yeah, you did, you 244 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: would just have domination of one team. Yeah. Over here 245 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,800 Speaker 1: in the NFL we had that, oh not the Patriots again, 246 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: and and then it got to a point where it's like, 247 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: all right, okay, we know the Detroit Lions. That's my team, 248 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,560 Speaker 1: by the way, and that's another show and we won't 249 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: go into that anyway. What I am getting at is 250 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: teams and you mentioned about finances. How healthy are some 251 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: of these teams. I think Barcelona, they're really in debt 252 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: right now. Uh, how are they going to survive and 253 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: what is it gonna take for teams to pull through? 254 00:15:38,840 --> 00:15:42,480 Speaker 1: So we have an even playing field for these teams. 255 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 1: So the first thing is definitely that you know, uh, 256 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: let's say standard regulation on how the team's finances are 257 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 1: controlled from each of the leagues. And then let's in 258 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: this case the European level. The economic controls that Laaliga 259 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: has are probably one of the most stringent there are 260 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: in Europe because they are based on last season revenues UM. 261 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: So before the season starts, every team in Laly, you know, 262 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: how much can they spend on the roster based on 263 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 1: what they made last year. A lot of the other 264 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: leagues have it based on the next season revenue, so uh, 265 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: not quite the same. But then definitely making sure that 266 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: players are getting paid, that taxes are getting paid um, 267 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 1: that teams are not carrying uh outside debt. So the 268 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: Barcelona case specifically was a mix of two things. One 269 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,000 Speaker 1: COVID impact UM and when you look at off most 270 00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 1: of the teams in Europe, they run on a very 271 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: thin line because every penny that they make they spend 272 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: on players, and so when you have an impact like COVID, 273 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,040 Speaker 1: there's not a lot of wiggle room to adjust. So 274 00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: what happened to them is they had a pretty high 275 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:02,040 Speaker 1: wage bill um COVID, hits revenues go down massively and 276 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,360 Speaker 1: they're still stuck with all these wage bills that are 277 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: contracted into multiple years. So they had to get rid 278 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,520 Speaker 1: of of a lot of that, you know, uh, excess 279 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: wages that they had by selling players, by renegotiating contracts, 280 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 1: so on and so forth. And then separately, UH, there 281 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: was an issue with the prior board and then the 282 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: new board and how they interpreted the impact of COVID 283 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: and their finances. And since the La Liga economic controls 284 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: again are based on last year's revenue, the board that 285 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: came in wanted to make sure that it was clear 286 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: that the large impact of the of COVID was recorded 287 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,720 Speaker 1: in the right way, but that limited the future spent 288 00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: that they had. So it's a unique situation. I think 289 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: that Barcelona is a unique brand, incredibly powerful when you 290 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: look at the most valuable teams UM soccer team specifically 291 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: is real Madrid first, in Barcelona second. When you look 292 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: got the broader scope of most valuable teams including all sports. 293 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: I think there was a Forbes list earlier this year 294 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:11,280 Speaker 1: rialma did Barcelona are fifth and sixth, behind the Nicks, 295 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: the Yankees, UM, not the Detroit Lions. Unfortunately. Yeah, we're 296 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: under the carpet. But but the point is that these 297 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: are very powerful companies and brands um, and so once 298 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: they get to restructure in the way that they have 299 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 1: in the past couple of months, they'll be able to 300 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: pull along. And I think that having for La Legal 301 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: specifically healthy and successful Barcelona and Real Madrid and Atletico 302 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 1: Madrid is just good for the league. Now, going to 303 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,679 Speaker 1: your other question of you know, how do you how 304 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: do you manage the fandom and the following of the 305 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: other let's say seventeen teams um, Because at the end 306 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: of we are a league and for us to be successful, 307 00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,959 Speaker 1: hopefully every team has to be success. Seventeen team has 308 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,240 Speaker 1: to be as good as the first team, right. But 309 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,159 Speaker 1: we also cannot be naive about the different tiers that 310 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,399 Speaker 1: you have. So Real Madrid and Barcelona are on one tier. 311 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: You probably have Athletico Madrid on a second tier. Then 312 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: you have probably another five teams Valencia, Real, Um, Sevia 313 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,159 Speaker 1: and then you have the rest um. And it's fine 314 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:27,080 Speaker 1: to have those tiers because the way that the system 315 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,880 Speaker 1: is set up, you all have different competitions and access 316 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:32,960 Speaker 1: that you get depending on where you end on the table. 317 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,880 Speaker 1: So yeah, ideally you have a way more competitive league. 318 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: I think the Premier League does a pretty good job. 319 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,479 Speaker 1: You know, when you're talking now about the Big Six, 320 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,919 Speaker 1: you know it's six teams that are you know, constantly 321 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,280 Speaker 1: up there fighting for European uh competitions um and ideally 322 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 1: we get two more of that, but for now, and 323 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: that's probably taking a long time. UH, you need to 324 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 1: make sure that the different tiers you have the most 325 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 1: competitive teams. So let me ask you about someone like Ronaldo. 326 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,679 Speaker 1: When you're trying to build up the awareness in a 327 00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: North American market in the US, do you invest through 328 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: a name like Ronaldo? Do you invest in the team 329 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: because you might get new viewers, new fans because they 330 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 1: want to see Ronaldo player, they want to see messy play. 331 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: But if they get traded or they moved to another team, 332 00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: there goes your fan. That the fan follows the star, 333 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: not necessarily the team the way that it is in 334 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 1: Europe where people are born into the team, and you 335 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: know that's that's part of our culture. Yeah, so that's 336 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: a good point. I think that there there is definitely 337 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: a benefit of having the big name star. From a 338 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 1: pure marketing perspective, what we see here um in the 339 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: U S specifically is that you definitely have to build 340 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 1: the team brand, but it's fine to use the player 341 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: brand to get there as long as it is sustainable. 342 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: So a lot of the questions that we get asked 343 00:20:56,880 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 1: are all, right, Ronaldo left the league, what happened. Nothing 344 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: really happened. I mean, it would be great to have 345 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: Ronaldo in the league, and the same happened with Messy 346 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,960 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. Of course, we would love 347 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: to keep those stars, but they've left and the value 348 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 1: of the TV rights have continued to growing up. The 349 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: viewership has continued to going up. Uh, commercial revenues are 350 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 1: still up. Barcelona still Barcelona, Realadrea, still Real Madrid. So 351 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: all of the of the good players, fortunately for us, 352 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 1: for what the history of the league has been, I 353 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,400 Speaker 1: want to go and play for those teams and want 354 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,919 Speaker 1: to come and play for La Liga. So yeah, you 355 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: would like to have Massy retire in Barcelona and Ronaldo 356 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: retired in Real Madrid, and even you know, Pep Guardiola, 357 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: the coach of Man City, keep on, you know, coaching 358 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: in the Leagua, and you always want to have the 359 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:50,320 Speaker 1: bigger names. But it's not uh, it's not a deal break. 360 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:53,920 Speaker 1: We're running out of time. We could go like four 361 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: six days talking about this. I love it, but I'm 362 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: gonna end it on a very stupid question because that's 363 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: what I do for a living. How much has the 364 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 1: TV series ted Lasso impacted soccer and and highlighted it. 365 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie I can relate to ted Lasso. 366 00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: When I remember the first season, you know, and he said, 367 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:21,080 Speaker 1: oh wait, they're different size pitches. I'm like, it's like, yes, dad, 368 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,400 Speaker 1: they're different size. Just then they patted me on there 369 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,399 Speaker 1: and my kids. It's like, just sit in the corner 370 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: and just just chill. But how is that TV show 371 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,479 Speaker 1: help football in general? A lot? By the way, I'm 372 00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:36,639 Speaker 1: a big fan. I thought it was great. I was 373 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: hesitant at the beginning because I thought it was just 374 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,159 Speaker 1: going to be a joke on the sport, and I 375 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 1: didn't know if I was gonna be interested in it. 376 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,760 Speaker 1: I love it. Um. It has helped a lot because 377 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: it helps put football as a cultural water cooler, conversation 378 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: moment um. The production is great, the actors are great, 379 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,680 Speaker 1: but the plot is amazing. So when you have now, 380 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: uh an American coach at Leeds United that gets joked about, 381 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: that's hard ted last. So it's fine. It's we shouldn't 382 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:13,880 Speaker 1: take it as a as an offense or anything like that. 383 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: You know, you have people talking about the sport and 384 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: about an American coach coaching let's say a second tier 385 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:24,160 Speaker 1: English Premier League team. They're talking about that. That's great. Um. 386 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: I'll tell you something we have. If you remember on 387 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 1: the series, uh, Danny Rojas, the Mexican kid. So we're 388 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: doing something with him for the launch of the league. 389 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: Uh this weekend the new season, the new season, so 390 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: he's gonna be there at one of the La Liga games. 391 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,400 Speaker 1: And for us, it was great to have a cultural 392 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: connection like came in the show with a US audience 393 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:52,399 Speaker 1: spelling off the popularity of so so we not only 394 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:57,320 Speaker 1: think it's helped a lot, we want to piggyback on it. Kids. 395 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 1: I was right. I have one last question for you, 396 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: Bar us before we go with the beginning of the 397 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:05,439 Speaker 1: new season. I wonder when you look at something like 398 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 1: the NFL, which we discusses in the league of its own, 399 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,480 Speaker 1: what do you want to take from that and implement 400 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: or incorporate into La Liga? What what what's the best 401 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 1: practice from the NFL that you think could help La Liga. 402 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: There's an interesting concept that um, the NFL here for everybody. 403 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: It's an industry and people are fine talking about the 404 00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: NFL as an industry as a business and the success 405 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,159 Speaker 1: of the media right seals that they do in the 406 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: partnership that they do and they're fine, and they actually 407 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: they pride on that. That hasn't happened in football and 408 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 1: in European football a lot because it's like, oh, you're 409 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: talking about an industry making money, you're you know, basically 410 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: killing the sport. So that's something that has changed a 411 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 1: lot in the past few years. Um, the executives running 412 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: the league's the owners of the teams are really understanding 413 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: that you need to have a healthy industry to actually 414 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 1: improve the sport and make it grow, and that it's 415 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: fine and that you're not selling if you're thinking about 416 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: the sports. The soccer industry specifically uh as A as 417 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: as a business, and so that's something that we try 418 00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 1: to learn a lot from the NFL and the other 419 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: American leagues. We talked a lot to NFL executives to 420 00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:22,120 Speaker 1: understand how they see the future of content distribution, content production, 421 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: media rights deals, to see what we can take from 422 00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: that and apply not just in Europe but at a 423 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,120 Speaker 1: global level. And it's been incredibly helpful for us being 424 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: here with an office. We have about thirty people here 425 00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: in our office that are dedicated to growing La Liga 426 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: in North America. Having boots underground and really having contact 427 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,879 Speaker 1: with all these great businesses like the NFL has allowed 428 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,919 Speaker 1: us to actually rethink the business of La Liga in 429 00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: a different way and has allowed us to do deals 430 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: that we probably wouldn't have not done before just because 431 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: of one proximity and to understanding of the future of 432 00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: the fans and the sport. Boris Gardner, CEO of Lalliga 433 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,560 Speaker 1: North America, you have convinced this Jed Clampant over here 434 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,040 Speaker 1: that you guys, you guys are nineta mine and I 435 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: want to see this grow and become the number one 436 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: sport here in America. I said it want I want 437 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: to see it, Boris. Thank you so much for joining 438 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:20,760 Speaker 1: us and having a little fun with us. Thank you 439 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 1: so much for having this is a pleasure. You'll have 440 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: to come back, of course. Thank you, thank you. This 441 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 1: has been the Bloomberg Business of Sports podcast where we 442 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: explore some of the big money issues in the world 443 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 1: of sports on Michael bar You can follow me on 444 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,479 Speaker 1: Twitter at Big Bar Sports. I'm Scarlet Fool and I'm 445 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Scarlet Food and guess what, you can 446 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: download this show wherever you get your podcast, because you 447 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: know why, that is just the way we roll.