Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Todd and this
Speaker 1: is There Are No Girls on the Internet. There Are
Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet is still on hiatus to
Speaker 1: take a little break in between seasons, but we're coming
Speaker 1: back soon. But in the meantime, I had to get
Speaker 1: on the mic to talk about the Oscars. It has
Speaker 1: been all I can talk about and think about this
Speaker 1: whole week, literally to the point where my friends are like,
Speaker 1: please stop talking about the Oscars. Don't you have a podcast?
Speaker 1: Couldn't you talk about it there? So that's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: So by now, if you watch the Oscars, you probably
Speaker 1: know that Michelle Yo made history as the first Asian
Speaker 1: woman to win Best Actress at the Oscars and the
Speaker 1: second woman of color to win Best Actress at the
Speaker 1: Oscars since Halle Berry back in two thousand and two
Speaker 1: for her iconic film Everything Everywhere, All at Once. Now,
Speaker 1: celebrating these kinds of wins is always a little bit
Speaker 1: bit you're sweet for me, because on the one hand,
Speaker 1: it's important to acknowledge these historic achievements, but on the
Speaker 1: other hand, I'm like, it's twenty twenty three. What took
Speaker 1: you all so long? You know, why are we celebrating
Speaker 1: historic firsts in twenty twenty three? It's complicated. So I
Speaker 1: joined the iconic April Rain, creator of the viral hashtag
Speaker 1: turned movement, oscar So White, and doctor John Paul, screenwriter
Speaker 1: and co host of the iHeartRadio groundbreaking podcast BFF, Black,
Speaker 1: Fat and Fem for a Twitter spaces about how marginalized
Speaker 1: creators are still celebrating our brilliance and creativity even when
Speaker 1: we're in industries that don't always recognize it. With us, y'all.
Speaker 1: This is actually my very first ever spaces I have
Speaker 1: ever moderated, So you know it's gonna go great. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be fantastic. Thank you all for joining us today.
Speaker 1: My name is Bridget Todd. I am the director of
Speaker 1: book Communications with Ultra Violet, a national gender justice organization,
Speaker 1: and the creator and host of Iheartradios Tech and Culture podcast.
Speaker 1: There are no girls on the Internet, and like a
Speaker 1: lot of y'all, I just watched the Oscars. I have
Speaker 1: a lot to say this year's Oscars. You know, there
Speaker 1: were some historic wins, but unfortunately, as we're pretty used to,
Speaker 1: some pretty big snubs as well, and instead of having
Speaker 1: that same old conversation about why Hollywood keeps overlooking us,
Speaker 1: we really wanted to take this opportunity to flip the
Speaker 1: script a little bit and say, you know, we are here,
Speaker 1: we are brilliant, you make good work, and at the
Speaker 1: powers that be don't recognize that it is on them
Speaker 1: and not us. And to do that, I am joined
Speaker 1: by an iconic duo that I cannot wait to introduce,
Speaker 1: April Rain. You might know April Rain as the creator
Speaker 1: of the online movement Oscar so White and screenwriter and
Speaker 1: all around Hollywood screenwriter, badass doctor John Paul. Thank you
Speaker 1: both so much for being here today, Thank you for
Speaker 1: having us. Very excited to be here on spaces with you. Yeah. Same,
Speaker 1: I'm really happy to be in such good spaces with
Speaker 1: good people. So this is going to be a really
Speaker 1: good time. So I would love to get started by
Speaker 1: both of you just sort of quickly introducing yourselves and
Speaker 1: telling us your connection to Hollywood for folks that might
Speaker 1: not know, or to the entertainment industry for folks that
Speaker 1: might not know. I guess I'll go first. I, as
Speaker 1: you mentioned, Bridget, I created Oscar So White in January
Speaker 1: of twenty fifteen. Before that time, I had no nexus
Speaker 1: to the entertainment industry except that I loved TV and
Speaker 1: film and stage, and so I was an avid consumer
Speaker 1: of all of that. And since Oscar so White, I've
Speaker 1: become an equity and inclusion consultant in the entertainment industry
Speaker 1: and have been working in this capacity for eight years now. Awesome,
Speaker 1: I guess I'll follow that and by saying kind of
Speaker 1: the same thing, I am an educator by trade. Folks
Speaker 1: see doctor John Paum, they usually ask are you really
Speaker 1: a doctor? Yes, I have by doctor's degree. I started
Speaker 1: let them know, yeah, like I do have a doctor's degree.
Speaker 1: And Educational Justice was very, very A lot of my
Speaker 1: work and a lot of the stuff that I started
Speaker 1: tweeting slash writing about happened right around the time that
Speaker 1: we started seeing stuff around Oscar Grant and a lot
Speaker 1: of basically anything and everything that was happening around in
Speaker 1: Justice between twenty fourteen and twenty sixteen. And so with
Speaker 1: that being said, a lot of when Moonlight came out
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen, I got tapped on a shoulder after
Speaker 1: writing this very long thread about the ways that black
Speaker 1: queer folks are treated in television and films and the
Speaker 1: ways our stories are not shown. And that led me
Speaker 1: to being getting opportunities to write for in TV and
Speaker 1: all these other different places. The root, blavity, you name it,
Speaker 1: I've written there pretty much. And so now kind of
Speaker 1: like April, I get pulled in to have very There
Speaker 1: are a lot of companies and organizations that pull me
Speaker 1: in and say, hey, we really want to do things
Speaker 1: well in entertainment, specifically around queer LGBTQ, black stories, and
Speaker 1: usually I am the one in the room helping to
Speaker 1: make sure those stories get told. So that's me in
Speaker 1: a nutshell. I'm so grateful for both of you and
Speaker 1: your voices and your presence in the space. April, I
Speaker 1: want to come back to you. You know, back in
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, you were calling out how white the Oscars
Speaker 1: were you with the iconic tweet quote Oscars so white
Speaker 1: they asked to touch my hair, and a movement was born.
Speaker 1: I know that Spike Lee gave you a not for
Speaker 1: creating the conditions for him doing his first Oscar with
Speaker 1: the Black Plansman. What is it like to be the
Speaker 1: creator of a movement that started on social media and
Speaker 1: one that literally changed Hollywood, and and I guess a
Speaker 1: follow up question would be, how much do you think
Speaker 1: has changed since you first started Oscar So back in?
Speaker 1: That's a lot. I don't take credit for um for
Speaker 1: any of the things that you mentioned, Honestly, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that I was in the right place at
Speaker 1: the right time, saying the right things. But I honestly
Speaker 1: wasn't saying anything new. There have been people decades before
Speaker 1: me saying the same thing in a different way that
Speaker 1: you know, we need more representation in entertainment, both in
Speaker 1: front of and behind the camera. You know, I think
Speaker 1: that now still a lot more needs to be done.
Speaker 1: You know, as you mentioned Bridget and the opening that
Speaker 1: we have has some historic wins since you know, I
Speaker 1: created Oscar So White in twenty fifteen, but there's so
Speaker 1: much work that still needs to be done. And I
Speaker 1: would honestly love to shift the conversation from the Oscars
Speaker 1: and other awards, you know, which happened at the very
Speaker 1: end of a film's life, and go back to the
Speaker 1: getting and talk about how important it is to have,
Speaker 1: as doctor John mentioned, the right people in the room
Speaker 1: from the very beginning, who is telling the stories and
Speaker 1: whose stories are being told are the most important questions
Speaker 1: we can ask, not who is being nominated because of
Speaker 1: the right stories aren't being made. Then no, you're not
Speaker 1: going to get nominations because the work just isn't there.
Speaker 1: Doctor John, Can you relate to what April is saying? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that that's part of the reason why. I mean,
Speaker 1: I know for me watching television and what I mean,
Speaker 1: I always so. I tweeted this yesterday before the Oscars,
Speaker 1: the tweet. You know that they showed Viola wimming the
Speaker 1: Emmy and she said basically and so and I don't
Speaker 1: know the verbatim what she said, but she said, you
Speaker 1: can't win an Emmy for roles that are not there.
Speaker 1: And I think that's been the thing that's been so frustrating. Right,
Speaker 1: So we're looking at we're looking at and I say,
Speaker 1: all oppression is cyclical and it's all connected. But I
Speaker 1: think that's been my biggest frustration. We're critiqued for not
Speaker 1: we get people over your math that you didn't win. Well, no,
Speaker 1: it's more than that. It's the idea that we're not
Speaker 1: even given a chance to win, and when we do
Speaker 1: get a chance to win, there's so little room for
Speaker 1: opportunity for us to win that you know that it's
Speaker 1: it's just it's it's it's really interesting. I wrote a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of thoughts down and it's funny because I'm
Speaker 1: trying not to like go off on this long tangent
Speaker 1: of how frustrated I am. But I think my biggest
Speaker 1: thing is with the industry, kind of going back to
Speaker 1: April's point, you know, there's so many folks that are
Speaker 1: that are looking at us as us being angry and saying, well,
Speaker 1: you're just upset. You should be happy that you're even recognized.
Speaker 1: And it's like, no, we shouldn't be happy for one
Speaker 1: or two pieces or bread of breadcrumbs that the industry
Speaker 1: is throwing at us. That's what it feels like at
Speaker 1: this point, that folks are throwing us breadcrumbs and saying, here,
Speaker 1: just be happy you have something to eat. You know,
Speaker 1: so absolutely, doctor John, I mean, the space is kind
Speaker 1: of came from a place of frustration that I really
Speaker 1: saw beautifully echoed in your piece for each called black
Speaker 1: oscar Snubs say more about the industry that does about
Speaker 1: black creators. One of my favorite lines from that piece
Speaker 1: I will read right now Admittedly, while much of the
Speaker 1: conversation around the Academy not nominating black films has grown
Speaker 1: a bit stale, along with conversations about black people needing
Speaker 1: to start their own what folks often fail to explore
Speaker 1: is what these snubs really say about the industry as
Speaker 1: a whole. Yess well, might sting that we continue to
Speaker 1: be overlooked. We have to remember that our stories and
Speaker 1: creativity being overlooked has more about the Academy and its
Speaker 1: voters than it would ever say about us. And I
Speaker 1: guess what My first question is, what do you think
Speaker 1: it has about about the Academy and the voters? And
Speaker 1: just a question for both of you, like, how do
Speaker 1: we shift the conversation. How do we have a different
Speaker 1: conversation that's not the same conversation we have every award
Speaker 1: season that's like, oh, they're not seeing us, We're overlooked
Speaker 1: for being snubbed, and that is really grounded and the
Speaker 1: fact that we make dope, We make dope shit and
Speaker 1: if people can't see that, that as on them and
Speaker 1: not on us. Yeah, if I can't. Before you know,
Speaker 1: Queen April ros I call her cre in April. Before
Speaker 1: April goes, I did want to say that one of
Speaker 1: the notes that I made last night was and I said,
Speaker 1: I was going to save it for the space, because
Speaker 1: oftentimes tweets can get lost in translation, and so I
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to say what was on my mind,
Speaker 1: but also be able to kind of back it by
Speaker 1: what I mean by And I said, you know, I
Speaker 1: what I wrote down is is I keep thinking about
Speaker 1: why black films and shows never get to sweep award shows,
Speaker 1: and honestly, it's just a way to keep black creators
Speaker 1: and creatives humble and leveled. And I think that's the
Speaker 1: thing that I want us to really kind of like
Speaker 1: think about, Right, why have we like, even when Black
Speaker 1: Patther came out, even with all of the money Black
Speaker 1: Panther made, even with all that it did to kind
Speaker 1: of shake and change the way we think about television
Speaker 1: or even film, right, there were only a few awards
Speaker 1: that were given to the folks who were connected to
Speaker 1: Black Panther. And I think that there are two things
Speaker 1: that are at play. I said, the industry not wanting
Speaker 1: black creators are people to feel too powerful, and to
Speaker 1: make sure that we remember that what our places is
Speaker 1: not only in just the industry, but the world, Right,
Speaker 1: the idea that if we have to acknowledge that black
Speaker 1: creators make dope shit and that it's gonna make stuff
Speaker 1: that's gonna be bigger than we could ever make, then
Speaker 1: you are ultimately saying that I have to show up
Speaker 1: and I actually have to do the work and work harder,
Speaker 1: and to acknowledge that we are talented, even with all
Speaker 1: the hoops they put us through, means we are so
Speaker 1: remarkably powerful, something that no one, not I would say,
Speaker 1: no white creator ever wants to say to us. They
Speaker 1: never want to admit that black people are the ship.
Speaker 1: And so I think that that's the thing that I
Speaker 1: was really trying to get out in this piece. Right,
Speaker 1: The notion is it's not just about us not winning,
Speaker 1: it's the opportunities not being given to us to win.
Speaker 1: It is because they never want to have to acknowledge
Speaker 1: that what we could ever do is greater than what
Speaker 1: they could ever conceive. Yeah, I'm not even playing to
Speaker 1: file out. I just hit my mic on Yeah. I
Speaker 1: think you know, there's been a long standing question about validation,
Speaker 1: right and seeking validation from white sources, and so since
Speaker 1: I create Oscars a white I've heard the pushback, why
Speaker 1: do we even care you know, why you know, why
Speaker 1: should we you know, even be looking to the white
Speaker 1: folks to give us a handout or YadA YadA and
Speaker 1: all that, And there is some truth to that. I
Speaker 1: absolutely understand that argument, and which is why I think
Speaker 1: we need to remember that there are places where we
Speaker 1: are validated by our own right There's the Alma Awards,
Speaker 1: the Glad Awards, the NAACP Awards, who all focus on
Speaker 1: marginalized communities and the recognition that they deserve. With respect
Speaker 1: to the Oscars, I think it can be both and right.
Speaker 1: We want respect and validation from our peers within our community,
Speaker 1: but we also deserve validation from the industry as a whole.
Speaker 1: We can absolutely have the conversation about what if the
Speaker 1: OSCARS should be considered the pinnacle in film awards in
Speaker 1: part because of who the voting membership is, in part
Speaker 1: because they haven't translated the an award win or even
Speaker 1: a nomination isn't translatable for most, especially people of color,
Speaker 1: into increased opportunities. There's a long list of a reason
Speaker 1: why maybe the OSCARS shouldn't be seen as b end
Speaker 1: all and be all, But as of right now, for
Speaker 1: better or worse, the oscars are considered the pinnacle. Right
Speaker 1: and regardless of whether you are a fry cook at
Speaker 1: McDonald's or a CEO of a Fortune one hundred corporation,
Speaker 1: you want to be recognized by people within your industry
Speaker 1: that matters, Right. There's a reason why we talk about
Speaker 1: the fact that Beyonce still hasn't won the Album of
Speaker 1: the Year Grammy. It's the same type of thing. Even
Speaker 1: though we know that those particular legacy institutions don't deserve
Speaker 1: our creativity. It is more a question of being recognized
Speaker 1: by what is considered to be the pinnacle in your
Speaker 1: particular industry. Let's take a quick break at our back. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: and I think that you really drill into one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why when people are like, oh, just make
Speaker 1: your own awards, it's really a yes and right, Like,
Speaker 1: I do think that we need to, you know, be
Speaker 1: excited about all the different award that are out there
Speaker 1: that recognize marginalized talent, but also it's normal to want
Speaker 1: to be recognized by industry standards. And so the conversation
Speaker 1: really could be like, well, should the oscars be the
Speaker 1: end all be all of what is considered the standard
Speaker 1: in the industry. That is, I mean, like for better
Speaker 1: or for worse, that is what the situation is right now.
Speaker 1: And so saying like, oh, make your own awards show
Speaker 1: just really fall short and doesn't really capture what is
Speaker 1: actually happening and what folks are actually dealing with. Well,
Speaker 1: I think that's right. And also the people that say
Speaker 1: that are the same folks that say that they don't
Speaker 1: see race, right, and why should we be so concerned,
Speaker 1: and why do we need to have Black History Month?
Speaker 1: We need to have you know, one history. You know,
Speaker 1: we need to celebrate our similarities and whatever. Okay, But
Speaker 1: if that's true, then why is it that when we
Speaker 1: leave you all to your own devices, you say things like, well,
Speaker 1: I couldn't pronounce lupida and yongo, and so I didn't
Speaker 1: even watch Twelve Years of Slave, much less vote for
Speaker 1: her for Best Actress or Best Supporting Actress. Right when
Speaker 1: left to their own devices, these same folks who say
Speaker 1: that they don't see race and they don't see color
Speaker 1: and they don't understand why we need to have our
Speaker 1: own special thing aren't interested in recognizing our excellence within
Speaker 1: their own bodies. And so that's why it's important that
Speaker 1: we ensure that we have these other organizations that are
Speaker 1: just as important that celebrate us. Yeah, and if I
Speaker 1: can add to that, I think the other thing that
Speaker 1: I really want folks to get in all that we're saying,
Speaker 1: and I hear us kind of saying we are all
Speaker 1: on the same wavelength. But I think the bigger thing
Speaker 1: for me is it's not just about the validation. It's
Speaker 1: the idea of knowing how much it took for us
Speaker 1: to get to the Oscars, Like the thought of how
Speaker 1: much it takes for like, even for me as a
Speaker 1: black writer, right, I'm still PREWGA and I'm still trying
Speaker 1: to break in, and I'm still trying to get an opportunity,
Speaker 1: and I've done a lot of Excuse me, I've done
Speaker 1: a lot of shit in the last eight years, and
Speaker 1: I'm still fighting to get it in right. And so
Speaker 1: for me to get to the Oscars or for me
Speaker 1: to get to the Emmys, that's that's validating me as
Speaker 1: a black queer creator and saying you went through all
Speaker 1: of that and you created this amazing thing for so
Speaker 1: many people who saw themselves, and now we want to
Speaker 1: give you the validation you deserve by saying you did
Speaker 1: that even when you had nothing right, And so I
Speaker 1: think that you know, the thing that really pains me
Speaker 1: in this conversation when we talk about the oscars, it's
Speaker 1: not about losing right, it's really knowing that there's so
Speaker 1: many black, brown, queer, non binary people who are pouring
Speaker 1: their hearts into the work that they're doing and it's
Speaker 1: basically being snubbed with a simple it's not good enough
Speaker 1: or there's not that many people who can relate. And
Speaker 1: it's like, well, if you're not giving it the space
Speaker 1: or the opportunity or the grace for folks to be
Speaker 1: able to connect to it, then how is it going
Speaker 1: to ever change the system that it's that it's meant
Speaker 1: to live in? You know, absolutely, and like not to
Speaker 1: go off on it. I know I'm a moderator, but
Speaker 1: not to go off on a tangent. But I see
Speaker 1: that time and time again when black story, brown stories,
Speaker 1: queer stories, trend stories are not really given that space
Speaker 1: to grow. Like they'll get a season on Netflix and
Speaker 1: then they'll get pulled and then and it'll be like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: why didn't it do better? And it's like, well, you
Speaker 1: didn't really support it, you didn't really give it a
Speaker 1: chance to grow, and when somebody else comes and wants
Speaker 1: to tell their black story or their queer story, or
Speaker 1: their trend story, they're gonna look and say, oh, well,
Speaker 1: this one it only lasted for our season, without actually
Speaker 1: including that fact that like, well, we didn't really support it,
Speaker 1: and we didn't you know, we didn't really give a
Speaker 1: chance to breathe or grow. Yep. And that's really that's
Speaker 1: an issue that we don't talk about enough that so
Speaker 1: a TV studio or a movie studio will put out
Speaker 1: a show that is quote unquote diverse or whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: whatever that means to them, right, and then but they
Speaker 1: don't support the show or the film, and then they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: we can't figure out why it didn't work, but we're
Speaker 1: never going to try that again, you know. So famously,
Speaker 1: for example, Avid Verney said that the distribution company for
Speaker 1: her film Selma in twenty fourteen did not send out
Speaker 1: the screeners to the Academy members. Little inside baseball here,
Speaker 1: you know, not everybody wants to go to a theater
Speaker 1: to see a particular film. So to get those films
Speaker 1: out there and seen by the folks who vote for them,
Speaker 1: very often they send screeners, DVD or you know, they
Speaker 1: send it through the laptop or whatever so that people
Speaker 1: can view them in the privacy of their own home. Well,
Speaker 1: if a distribution company decides that they're not going to
Speaker 1: send that out, then how does one see it in
Speaker 1: order to vote for it? Right? So yeah, you can say, oh,
Speaker 1: we made a quote unquote black film. And that's not
Speaker 1: even a phrase that I like to use, right because
Speaker 1: we never say white film, a straight film or whatever, Right,
Speaker 1: So I don't like to use that film. I prefer
Speaker 1: that phrase. I prefer to say, you know, films that
Speaker 1: reflect an aspect of the black experiences a lot longer.
Speaker 1: It doesn't get expect the hastag but it is more accurate.
Speaker 1: So anyway, so even when Selma came out it was
Speaker 1: a fantastic film, the distribution companies can say, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: well we you know, we made a black film. It's like,
Speaker 1: but if you didn't support it, then, you know, when
Speaker 1: it doesn't do well at the box office, when it
Speaker 1: doesn't do well during awards seasons, then you can go
Speaker 1: back and say, oh, well we tried, but we don't
Speaker 1: know what happened, and so we're not going to try
Speaker 1: and do more. Of that right, and so then it
Speaker 1: becomes a vicious cycle. So they put it out there begrudgingly,
Speaker 1: but they don't support it all the way through to
Speaker 1: the very end. The other little piece of insight Baseball
Speaker 1: I wanted to share is that when it comes to
Speaker 1: awards season, film companies and studios have a finite marketing budget.
Speaker 1: And so if a particular company, like a twenty four
Speaker 1: or Paramount or you know whatever MGM says that you know,
Speaker 1: they put out eight films over the course of the year.
Speaker 1: They decide relatively early on, based on everything that they're seeing,
Speaker 1: which films they think are going to do the best
Speaker 1: at award season, and then they put their marketing dollars
Speaker 1: behind those films. So if they choose two out of
Speaker 1: the eighth that they have over the year, and you know,
Speaker 1: the other six actually featured marginalized the traditional traditionally underrepresented communities,
Speaker 1: they're gonna get paid dust and they're gonna go with
Speaker 1: the war film, you know, or the back office match
Speaker 1: because it's the same shit every single year, and those
Speaker 1: are the ones that they're going to promote during award season,
Speaker 1: and the other ones are left out to dry to
Speaker 1: you know, to attempt to stir up award buzz all
Speaker 1: in their own more. After a quick break, let's get
Speaker 1: right back into it. So what a switch gears a
Speaker 1: little bit? You know? The Oscars were not without its
Speaker 1: high points. Michelle Yo at sixty, made history men becoming
Speaker 1: the first Asian woman to win Best Actress and Actress
Speaker 1: the Oscars. Her pictures with Halle Berry were so powerful,
Speaker 1: like get ready to see that shit on? Like everything
Speaker 1: on T shirts. This Then the third, Ruth Carter, became
Speaker 1: the first black woman to win two Oscars. I wonder
Speaker 1: to each of you, will this always be kind of
Speaker 1: a bitter sweet thing? Because I love celebrating when we win.
Speaker 1: I love celebrating marginalized wins. But I always think, what
Speaker 1: took y'all so long? Is it really like it feels
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty three bitter sweet to be celebrating these
Speaker 1: winds when I wish we were seeing all the time.
Speaker 1: I wish I didn't have to wait to celebrate these wins.
Speaker 1: I wish they were already happening. Did you do you
Speaker 1: ever feel that way? Yeah? You know, I think for me,
Speaker 1: And that's the hard part about I think about being
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny because this conversation just reminds me
Speaker 1: so much of the cob why I was having with
Speaker 1: the frame. We were talking about the crabs and the
Speaker 1: barrel mentality and the question of why are crabs in
Speaker 1: the barrel in the first place? Um, like why do
Speaker 1: we should be in the ocean? I think, no, really,
Speaker 1: such a good point. It's such a good point, like
Speaker 1: why are why are why aren't crabs in the oceans?
Speaker 1: But I not to difvert from your question. I think
Speaker 1: the biggest thing for me is that you know, when
Speaker 1: when think when we're so marginalized, and when marginalized people
Speaker 1: have only been given scrabs, right, they feel like they
Speaker 1: should celebrate whatever they can get. And I think that
Speaker 1: that's the thing that I think is so frustrating, right,
Speaker 1: because it should not be in a situation where we
Speaker 1: have to pick and choose between whether we celebrate Angela
Speaker 1: Bassett winning versus Jamie Lee Curtis right. It needs to
Speaker 1: be like we're looking at this notion of the reason
Speaker 1: why people are so upset that Angela didn't win is
Speaker 1: because for years, Angela has shown up and has done
Speaker 1: the work, and it's fault and it's continue to keep
Speaker 1: showing up, and it's still not getting what she deserves, right,
Speaker 1: So I think, like that's the frustrating part for me.
Speaker 1: It's like, while I really want to be happy and
Speaker 1: I want to be excited about the wins for other people,
Speaker 1: there's this long history that continues to keep telling us.
Speaker 1: We've had ninety five years with the oscars, telling us
Speaker 1: we don't give two shits about black people, when only
Speaker 1: a black when a black woman has only one two
Speaker 1: when how many other people have won. So it's just,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know if I'm making sense, but
Speaker 1: I guess for me, it's frustrating that we have to
Speaker 1: constantly celebrate the little bit that we get when there
Speaker 1: should be so much more progression. I guess that's the
Speaker 1: bigger point I'm trying to make. It's always going to
Speaker 1: be a bittersweet for me, because, as doctor John Paul said,
Speaker 1: we shouldn't still be celebrating first in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: you know. And so that's the really frustrating part that
Speaker 1: everything time someone from a traditionally underrepresented community wins, yes,
Speaker 1: we're excited, but it's like, damn, why did it take
Speaker 1: all this? And part of that is because as talented
Speaker 1: as that person was, we know that there was someone
Speaker 1: before them that should have won, Right, Angela bastard. This
Speaker 1: should be at least her second oscar Win. You know,
Speaker 1: it's starting back with what's love got to do with it?
Speaker 1: And you can choose whatever else you want to put
Speaker 1: in there. Right for her to still be zero and
Speaker 1: zero for two nominations is disrespectful at this point. And
Speaker 1: you know, there was a whole bunch of talk about oh,
Speaker 1: she you know, she didn't whatever, she didn't clap loud
Speaker 1: and wef or whatever, and it's like, listen, she displayed
Speaker 1: a very human response right in that moment. After all
Speaker 1: that she has given this industry to be looked over
Speaker 1: again has to be heartbreaking. It takes nothing away from
Speaker 1: Jamie Lee Curtis. You know, there's a reason why I
Speaker 1: don't talk about snubs because when you say that someone
Speaker 1: has been snubbed, then the follow up question always is, well,
Speaker 1: you know, if they should have been nominated, then who
Speaker 1: would you take out? And that's not fair, right because
Speaker 1: all of the performances were great, but we know that
Speaker 1: some rise to the challenge more than others. And we
Speaker 1: also know that Academy voters vote sometimes based on legacy
Speaker 1: history of work, right, Because for example, you can't tell
Speaker 1: me that al Pacino winning the Oscar for Whua what
Speaker 1: Scent of a Woman was better than him winning for
Speaker 1: Godfather Too, for Cerproco for Down Day Afternoon, like you
Speaker 1: name it. But in my mind, you know, nobody will
Speaker 1: have saying out loud, but in my mind, he won
Speaker 1: percent of a Woman because it was based on a
Speaker 1: body of work. You know, we don't know how much
Speaker 1: longer Al is going to be acting. Overall, he's a
Speaker 1: fantastic actor. Perhaps this wasn't his best performance, but let's
Speaker 1: go ahead and give it to him. Right. And that's
Speaker 1: not the way things should be, I believe, because I
Speaker 1: get this a lot. Oh well, you just want the
Speaker 1: black people a wain or the queer people or whatever.
Speaker 1: It's like. No, I believe that movie awards nominations and
Speaker 1: wins and all awards shouldn't be you know, participation trophies.
Speaker 1: They should be based on merit. But the Academy voters
Speaker 1: are not required to view the films before they vote,
Speaker 1: thank you. I feel like this, So that means that
Speaker 1: they're voting, oh because you know they know the director
Speaker 1: or like the director. Or again, as I said, maybe
Speaker 1: it's a legacy win. Or they didn't vote at all.
Speaker 1: It was their manager slash agent slash publicists who filled
Speaker 1: out the ballot. It's all of these things. Other than yes,
Speaker 1: I watched all of the nominees in this category, and
Speaker 1: I believe this was the best of the five or
Speaker 1: the ten, right, and that is it. That means because
Speaker 1: the Academy voting members are still overwhelmingly white and overwhelmingly male,
Speaker 1: then that means what we really have here is a
Speaker 1: popularity to contest amongst older white men exactly. And I guess,
Speaker 1: I guess, Oh sorry, doctor John. I was just gonna
Speaker 1: say that old boys clubs go always strike, honey, Yes,
Speaker 1: And I guess sort of like against the backdrop of
Speaker 1: this being the sort of like industry voting body and
Speaker 1: how it works as creative and industry professionals in this space,
Speaker 1: like what fills your cup? How do both of you say,
Speaker 1: tapped into your black brilliance against this backdrop that we
Speaker 1: know can be so that this can be so bad
Speaker 1: at seeing y'all, April, I don't know if you want
Speaker 1: to take it first, but I was gonna say, I
Speaker 1: think you you ask a really interesting question. And it's
Speaker 1: funny because I get people who reach out to me
Speaker 1: a lot and say, you know, we follow you on
Speaker 1: social we see you winning over here, especially like the
Speaker 1: now my podcast is taking off and now I'm doing
Speaker 1: all of these little things, and I have so many
Speaker 1: people reaching out and saying, you're you inspire me? How
Speaker 1: do you stay inspire? And I think it's it's it's
Speaker 1: really looking at other creators who you know, like I know,
Speaker 1: I know for me, like I know that smile that
Speaker 1: Angela Bassett had last night was a pain smile. But
Speaker 1: there was an element to me when I looked at
Speaker 1: when I looked at that clip again and seeing in
Speaker 1: her face, it was like, I know, I did the
Speaker 1: best that I could do, and that's got to be enough.
Speaker 1: And I think that that's what's been holding me these
Speaker 1: last couple of months, last years as I've been in
Speaker 1: the industry, is knowing that my good enough is gonna
Speaker 1: have to be good enough and that I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: constantly keep equating it to what my white colleagues are
Speaker 1: doing and they're in they're lane. I recognize that the
Speaker 1: fear fields are greener with pasture for them. But I
Speaker 1: know for me, what I'm gonna do over here is
Speaker 1: my best, and I'm gonna do my best to make
Speaker 1: sure that I encourage those who are around me. So
Speaker 1: I think that that's really what what holds me in
Speaker 1: this space is just saying, you know what Mariah say,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do the best I can, well what I got.
Speaker 1: That's it. If you hear snaps over here, that's just
Speaker 1: me snapping along. Yeah, that's beautiful. That is beautiful. I
Speaker 1: think for me, it's those glimmers of hope that I
Speaker 1: see every now and again. UM. For example, Melvin Van
Speaker 1: Peebles and Julie Dash are now members of the Academy.
Speaker 1: Since Oscars so white, in my mind, they should have
Speaker 1: been members decades ago because of their seminal work, but
Speaker 1: because of the way the Oscars used to be with
Speaker 1: respect to inducting UM members, they had not been invited.
Speaker 1: So there's that. Um, it's watching Ava Duverney do what
Speaker 1: seven years, seven seasons of Clean Sugar and have nothing
Speaker 1: but female directors that you know, gives me hope and
Speaker 1: keeps me energized. Because what folks don't realize is you
Speaker 1: can do a full feature, two hour film and still
Speaker 1: not be able to get a job to you know,
Speaker 1: direct or show run a thirty minute show on TV.
Speaker 1: You would think that things would you know that the
Speaker 1: skills are transferable, But again, it's all about the opportunities.
Speaker 1: Seeing Marseille Martin be the youngest person to ever produce
Speaker 1: a film that did really well at the box office,
Speaker 1: things like that give me hope and energy. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's finally seeing Key and Michelle Yo win last night,
Speaker 1: and the way that Asian and AAPI folks are finally,
Speaker 1: you know, getting a little bit of the spotlight in
Speaker 1: the entertainment industry despite decades and decades of phenomenal work.
Speaker 1: Those things all make me very happy to see. But
Speaker 1: it's obvious that we have so much more to go.
Speaker 1: We have so much more work to do Before I
Speaker 1: let you go, April, I have one curveball question for you.
Speaker 1: I know you were the co founder of Sister Scotus
Speaker 1: and campaign to advocate for getting a black woman on
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, and you did that. Shit, how does that?
Speaker 1: Thanks for that? It feels amazing. You know, it was
Speaker 1: me and three other black women who assembled like voltron
Speaker 1: and knew that we couldn't start the campaign once President
Speaker 1: Biden once there was a vacancy on the Supreme Court, right,
Speaker 1: because people don't really think about or care about judicial
Speaker 1: nominations in the same way that they do, you know,
Speaker 1: for example, presidential campaigns. And so we start at work
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty when Biden at still nominee Biden, you know,
Speaker 1: Senator Biden campaign front runner Biden promised to nominate a
Speaker 1: black woman to the Supreme Court. And so now seeing
Speaker 1: her up there, it's fantastic because we know, slowly but surely, again,
Speaker 1: nothing happens overnight, but slowly but surely she is going
Speaker 1: to have an impact that will last generations. And now
Speaker 1: that she is there, that ceiling is broken, and it's
Speaker 1: time to get even you know, more people from marginalized
Speaker 1: communities on the court, because I think that people don't
Speaker 1: realize how important the Supreme Court is with respect to
Speaker 1: the changes that can be made. And only now that
Speaker 1: Roe v. Wade has been overturned and other things are
Speaker 1: happening with respect of affirmative action and you know, voting
Speaker 1: rights and all of those people are really starting to
Speaker 1: wake up, perhaps in a way that they weren't before
Speaker 1: about how important the Supreme Court and judicial nominations and
Speaker 1: confirmations are throughout the country, not just at the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court level, but even at the local and judicial level.
Speaker 1: I am so grateful for your work in the space,
Speaker 1: both of you. Thank you so much for being here,
Speaker 1: and thank you for the lasting impact that I know
Speaker 1: that your work will make. You all are creating legacies
Speaker 1: that I know will reverberate for years to come. Where
Speaker 1: can folks follow all the work you're doing? What are
Speaker 1: you working on? What do you want to shout out?
Speaker 1: We love you both? Like? What do y'all got? Okay,
Speaker 1: well I'll start here. You can listen every Tuesday to
Speaker 1: a brand new episode of the Black Fat Fan podcast
Speaker 1: hosted by iHeartMedia and now on the Outspoken Network. And
Speaker 1: you can also find me here. You can all over
Speaker 1: the place. I have articles coming out that are like pending,
Speaker 1: but my ladies is with beet and Yeah. You can
Speaker 1: also go to my website at ww dot doctor John
Speaker 1: Paul dot com. Fantastic April. Yeah, this is the part
Speaker 1: I hate. Um. You know, I'm reigning of April across
Speaker 1: the board on all the social media platforms. I will
Speaker 1: be on spill as soon as it drops. It is
Speaker 1: going to be a culture forward app, getting back to
Speaker 1: the fun that gives the means to be five or
Speaker 1: ten years I cannot wait. I will be there, so definitely.
Speaker 1: You can go to spill dash app dot com spill
Speaker 1: dashapp dot com to reserve your handle because we're coming
Speaker 1: out very soon. We just had an activation at South
Speaker 1: By UM and things are going great. I know that
Speaker 1: we have like sixty thousand people waiting to get in
Speaker 1: this app, so you're not going to be alone, and
Speaker 1: that's one of the major things I've got going on
Speaker 1: right now. Thanks for asking, and thank you so much
Speaker 1: for hosting Bridget. This has been great. Oh, thank you
Speaker 1: both for being here. Thank you at John and April,
Speaker 1: and thanks to all of you for listening for everything
Speaker 1: at the Access of Culture, Gender, Race, Identity, keep following
Speaker 1: Ultra Violet, and thanks so much for being here. Have
Speaker 1: a great US in your night, everybody. All right, Thank you, everybody,
Speaker 1: have a go. Thank you all right. Bye. If you're
Speaker 1: looking for ways to support the show, check out our
Speaker 1: merchstore at tangodi dot com. Slash store. Got a story
Speaker 1: about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to
Speaker 1: say hi. You can reach us at Hello at tangodi
Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode
Speaker 1: at tangodi dot com. There Are No Girls on the
Speaker 1: Internet was created by me Bridget Tod. It's a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unboss Creative edited by Joey pat Jonathan
Speaker 1: Strickland as our executive producer. Terry Harrison is our producer
Speaker 1: and sound engineer. Michael Amato is our contributing producer. I'm
Speaker 1: your host, Bridget Toad. If you want to help us
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