Speaker 1: I actually went to a NASCAR race the other day.
Speaker 1: It felt weird, like I was like going around going like,
Speaker 1: there's another black person, and there's a black person there,
Speaker 1: Like I was probably the most racist person there, just
Speaker 1: because I kept pointing out, well, Troy, let's be honest, No,
Speaker 1: you weren't. But that said, you might have been the
Speaker 1: most actively uh acknowledging the race in the room in
Speaker 1: a way that that you didn't expect. I know, I
Speaker 1: was the only person that said, there's two more niggers
Speaker 1: out loud, out loud, Yeah, chips in your racist money.
Speaker 1: Actually stuff, I can't tell me. Yep, yep, yep, there
Speaker 1: it is. There it is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to
Speaker 1: another phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the podcast
Speaker 1: where we dive deep deep into the pockets of black
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories and we finally worked to prove that the
Speaker 1: noose in Bubba Wallace's garage was not a hate crime,
Speaker 1: but rather a warning from a time traveling nigga from
Speaker 1: the future to tell Bubba chill with the NASCAR and
Speaker 1: learn to host the b ET Awards instead. Look, man,
Speaker 1: you ain't that good at driving. You got to get
Speaker 1: on the b ET Awards. That's what the man from
Speaker 1: the future was trying to say to him with the noose,
Speaker 1: and he was completely misinterpreting it. That's the conspiracy theory
Speaker 1: I'm spreading this week. That's the nonsense I'm putting out
Speaker 1: in the world. I'm your host, lanks to Kerman as
Speaker 1: always coming in hot baby, coming in hotware back. This
Speaker 1: is our our second week back from hiatus, and I'm
Speaker 1: happy to be with you. But more importantly, I'm happy
Speaker 1: to be here with my guests. And here means over
Speaker 1: zoom because I don't think in person ever is going
Speaker 1: to exist again because you niggas don't know how to act.
Speaker 1: But the point is over zoom. My guest today is
Speaker 1: a hilarious I'm so happy he's here, hilarious comedian, hilarious
Speaker 1: stand up. You know him as a writer on Jimmy
Speaker 1: Kimmel Alive. That's that's one of the good late night shows.
Speaker 1: There are some stinkers, but Jimmy Kimmel Alive and one
Speaker 1: of them, and he helps write that show so funny.
Speaker 1: Please give it up for my guests. Mr Troy Walker, Hey,
Speaker 1: happy to be here, man, I'm happy to be here.
Speaker 1: I'm happy you're here. You know, it's funny about that.
Speaker 1: Intro actually went to a NASCAR race the other day. Whoa, yeah,
Speaker 1: how was it? Honestly it was great? It Okay, this
Speaker 1: is this is exciting for me because I was actually
Speaker 1: having a debate and different writer's room about whether or
Speaker 1: not black people can show up to NASCAR and be
Speaker 1: un unbothered, you know what I mean. Like I always
Speaker 1: I thought, like, all right, I like the idea of
Speaker 1: getting drunk and watching cars going circles. That seems fun,
Speaker 1: but I would imagine that the community of NASCAR is
Speaker 1: not gonna be like chill with me being there. I mean,
Speaker 1: this was so I went. It was the first time
Speaker 1: I've ever gone to one, and I kind of went,
Speaker 1: I guess in that same kind of like let me
Speaker 1: just see you know. I went with like one of
Speaker 1: my comic friends, Brent gil I think you know Brent. Yeah. Uh.
Speaker 1: So we go out there, we like drive to Fontana
Speaker 1: or whatever, and I mean there is that like thing
Speaker 1: where it's like trumpy, right, Like there's like the fun
Speaker 1: Joe Biden t shirts or whatever, and like trucks with
Speaker 1: the big flags and stuff and as as it should
Speaker 1: be if if ever there was a space for that,
Speaker 1: they built that. If you build, they will come. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I get it. But honestly, the vibe was like pretty
Speaker 1: good other than that, And there were way more black
Speaker 1: people than I ever expected to see, Like, way more
Speaker 1: black people than I ever expected to see. Bro, that's
Speaker 1: that's actually really encouraging. Yeah, I was blown away actually
Speaker 1: by how many black people are actually there. I have
Speaker 1: to figure that's Bubba, Like, you know, how we do it,
Speaker 1: Like there's like a black dude doing that. We're gonna
Speaker 1: was Bubba racing? Was he was? He? Now? He was there?
Speaker 1: How do you do? What place he come in? Look,
Speaker 1: that's not the point. We all got to talk. Why
Speaker 1: why are you trying to be negative? Look he was there,
Speaker 1: that's that's what he came in a strong thirty fifth plade,
Speaker 1: and they are saying he's one of the best thirty
Speaker 1: fifth place performances they've ever seen. Look it wasn't his fault.
Speaker 1: You know, they kept they kept the police kept pulling
Speaker 1: him over during the race. Uh No, it was like
Speaker 1: it was honestly, man, it was like kind of fun,
Speaker 1: Like it's like it's loud, it's like, you know, he
Speaker 1: just kind of sitting there drinking. It's it's good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it seems I mean like a lot of live sports
Speaker 1: that are more fun to obviously watching person than they
Speaker 1: are on television. I feel this way about baseball. It's
Speaker 1: one of those things where it seems like you could
Speaker 1: check out for a while and you haven't missed a thing,
Speaker 1: and so it's it's that's great for fucking live because
Speaker 1: you can just talk some ship hang out and then
Speaker 1: you go back and it's like, oh yeah, they're still
Speaker 1: doing loop de loops perfect. Yeah. Yeah. But it's also
Speaker 1: like in person, it feels like less time when they're
Speaker 1: on the other side than it does on TV. You know,
Speaker 1: like TV it feels like, oh, like what do you
Speaker 1: do the other time? You know, like when they're not
Speaker 1: right in front of you, but right there. I mean,
Speaker 1: they're going so fast that it's like, you know, it
Speaker 1: pretty it's pretty quick. It actually was like nowhere near
Speaker 1: as boring as I thought it might be. And uh yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like I don't know, it's like good energy.
Speaker 1: They do five hundred laps, that's the deal. No, I
Speaker 1: think the one I saw was like maybe a hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty. Oh so I'm way over or something. It
Speaker 1: wasn't like anything because I thought, like the same thing,
Speaker 1: it was like something like two hundred, but I know
Speaker 1: it wasn't actually two hundred laps. I think it was
Speaker 1: like one fifty because they did like three stages, Like
Speaker 1: I learned like a decent amount while I was there.
Speaker 1: They do like the races and stages. Now see, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna sunk around and go somewhere and be like what
Speaker 1: they doing five hundred laps and then those white people
Speaker 1: are going to have a reason to be my ass,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. They're gonna be like, look, man,
Speaker 1: we're cool with y'all being here, but you can't be
Speaker 1: in here dumb as fuck asking questions. But it was
Speaker 1: like yeah, then like people like wearing like his stuff,
Speaker 1: like his like Bubba Wallace's jerseys and stuff. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: felt he got jersey. I gotta give me a bubble
Speaker 1: while jerky number thirty. You can get a whole Yeah,
Speaker 1: you can get a whole jacket and everything. I love that. Okay,
Speaker 1: we can't. We can't talk about Bubba and his hen
Speaker 1: and against all day because you came to us with
Speaker 1: a conspiracy theory that frankly, I don't know that I've
Speaker 1: ever heard before, and I'm super excited to talk about
Speaker 1: you said, my mama told me slavery with faith and
Speaker 1: black people were already in America. I saw this on
Speaker 1: Twitter a while back, and then apparently it's like like
Speaker 1: b O. B is like kind of a believer in this,
Speaker 1: Like I said, like an article I found about this, well, yes,
Speaker 1: and I I get. I dove deep into the article
Speaker 1: and the article is actually written by a former guest
Speaker 1: on the show, Michael Harriet of the Route, and it
Speaker 1: is jarring uh discovery from b O. B. That's right,
Speaker 1: Bob has discovered that slavery in fact is a complete
Speaker 1: ruse because he's not exactly clear why, but it's a
Speaker 1: complete ruse because black people, I guess, we're in America
Speaker 1: before we were originally brought here quote unquote originally brought
Speaker 1: here via slave ship. Yeah, Like he like was saying,
Speaker 1: wouldn't like that. It's like shoot where you're like that's
Speaker 1: not true, like something so easily disprovable. Like he's like,
Speaker 1: you haven't noticed, you never see a slave ship. You
Speaker 1: feel like you just told me you don't go to museums. Bro,
Speaker 1: I feel like that's the only thing you told me. Okay,
Speaker 1: So so I think based on your energy alone, I
Speaker 1: get the sense that you're not bought in on this
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory, that this is hell No you're subscribing to
Speaker 1: and B O B is not a selling point for you.
Speaker 1: You're not B O B doesn't make you want to
Speaker 1: believe it more. No, bro, come on now, I look,
Speaker 1: I'll admit I had his albums that a lot of
Speaker 1: people did. I had his albums, but no, let me
Speaker 1: ask you this were When when did you first discover
Speaker 1: that B O B was is a conspiracy theorist? Was
Speaker 1: this the one that broke you open? Or were you
Speaker 1: aware of his earlier conspiracy theorists theories? Excuse me, I
Speaker 1: don't know that I know of his other conspiracy theories.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well he has one that that really ruined
Speaker 1: his career. And he was an early early investor in
Speaker 1: the flat Earth movement. He was actually one of the
Speaker 1: first sort of like celebrity people to come forward and
Speaker 1: be like, the Earth ain't ain't round, it's flat. And
Speaker 1: he even went so far as to make a very
Speaker 1: public go fund me so that he could invest in
Speaker 1: in creating a satellite type situation so that he could
Speaker 1: prove that the Earth is flat. He's fully invested. This
Speaker 1: isn't just like a passive theory for him. He he
Speaker 1: invested in a satellite. No, no, no, he invested in
Speaker 1: setting up a go fund me so that so that
Speaker 1: the public could invest in a satellite that I guess
Speaker 1: he was gonna build to try to figure out if
Speaker 1: the Earth is in fact flat. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes you know how you go like, you know, like
Speaker 1: some people shouldn't have money, Yeah, you know, like when
Speaker 1: you go like somebody else should be in charge of
Speaker 1: their money. Absolutely, And I feel like that's one of
Speaker 1: those situations. But it's also like bad because it's like
Speaker 1: he wasn't even gonna put his money behind it, Like
Speaker 1: he was like, I'm gonna start to go fund me No,
Speaker 1: And and I would dare to say it's because he
Speaker 1: doesn't have much money left. I don't know that. Uh,
Speaker 1: that B O B is now raking in the coin
Speaker 1: from those early two thousand CITs that probably have carried
Speaker 1: as long as we wish they would have. Oh god,
Speaker 1: he spent all the Strange Clouds money. Yeah, man, it's
Speaker 1: all gone. What was that the joint with Bruno Mars.
Speaker 1: It's gone, it's it's done. Okay, So so you're not
Speaker 1: bought in on Bob's conspiracy theories. That sounds like any
Speaker 1: of them, certainly not not the current one, the most
Speaker 1: recent one that we're talking about. No, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, I mean, how could you. That's like a
Speaker 1: hard one. Sure, it's it's a silly it seems silly.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you this this now follow up question.
Speaker 1: I guess are you a person who buys into conspiracy
Speaker 1: theory in general? Are you like anti conspiracy theory? Are
Speaker 1: you very much like No, the government tells us the
Speaker 1: truth and I dig what they got going on. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like it's those extremes. Oh you don't
Speaker 1: like the set up, the trap that I put you win? No,
Speaker 1: I don't know that you have to be I think
Speaker 1: you can be like I think most conspiracy theories are trash,
Speaker 1: but I'm not. But I also don't think like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, the government tells us everything the truth. But
Speaker 1: I think, like, you know, I don't. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think that would be like necessilly black man that believes that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know who that is. I know he wears
Speaker 1: a lot of polo shirts. Yeah, frankly, I don't even
Speaker 1: know if he's still doing that. Nobody's checked on B
Speaker 1: O B and so long that his style, his energy
Speaker 1: has changed in a way that who knows what he looks,
Speaker 1: who knows what he's doing. But no, no, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: say no. I don't typically subscribe to conspiracy theories because
Speaker 1: I feel like the thing about conspiracy theories is they
Speaker 1: always require like a bunch of stuff to perpetuate themselves,
Speaker 1: you know, like it's always like one of those things
Speaker 1: where like the second there's like evidence against the conspiracy,
Speaker 1: they have to like use that is more evidence of
Speaker 1: the conspiracy. You know. It's always yeah, you're like people
Speaker 1: like that's not a thing. I have like a chart
Speaker 1: with numbers that shows you why that's not true. And
Speaker 1: they go, yeah, well who made that chart? They're just right,
Speaker 1: like it's just like and I'm just not I have
Speaker 1: a lot of agree man, Like I just can't think
Speaker 1: like that, you know, Like, yeah, I I think I've
Speaker 1: talked about this before on the podcast, but when Kyrie
Speaker 1: came out as a quote unquote flat earther, I was
Speaker 1: actually there. He talked about it at the All Star Game.
Speaker 1: I believe it was like seventeen. I was there shooting
Speaker 1: a VR thing for I think it was Oculus or
Speaker 1: some ship. I don't remember, but the point is I
Speaker 1: was sort of like standing near the the podiums of
Speaker 1: everything that was you know that all Stars were all
Speaker 1: sitting around They're doing their various press conferences whatever, and
Speaker 1: they asked Lebron actually because Kyrie had said it earlier
Speaker 1: that morning, and then they asked Lebron because they're still
Speaker 1: on the calves together at the time. They're like, a, Brian,
Speaker 1: have you heard that your star teammate thinks that the
Speaker 1: Earth is flat? And then Lebron yells over to the
Speaker 1: other podium that Kyrie is at. He goes, yo, read
Speaker 1: you think the Earth is flat? And then you can
Speaker 1: see Kyrie go and it's very much this is early
Speaker 1: in Kyrie trolling doing the thing phase. I think he's
Speaker 1: in a much different space now, but at the time
Speaker 1: you just see Kyrie's eyes get real low and he
Speaker 1: goes yeah, and you can tell he doesn't believe it.
Speaker 1: But what he did sort of suggesting things that I
Speaker 1: followed up on and things that I read, and even
Speaker 1: Steph Curry got in trouble for some weird conspiracy theory
Speaker 1: ship around the same time. And the point that I
Speaker 1: think a lot of these guys kept trying to make
Speaker 1: is that history books don't always tell us the truth,
Speaker 1: and so there's plenty of reason for us to question
Speaker 1: the history that we have. And I think that's sort
Speaker 1: of like the dangerous game that conspiracy theory creates because
Speaker 1: that statement is a true history books lie to us constantly.
Speaker 1: We're not always being presented with the truth, even in
Speaker 1: in you know, current media. That said, there has to
Speaker 1: be a point where you stop asking questions and you
Speaker 1: take it at a level of face value. And if
Speaker 1: you keep just asking more and more, well, how do
Speaker 1: we know, how do we know? You're just trapped in
Speaker 1: a a very dumb tunnel. Yeah, man, I used to
Speaker 1: have a bit about how you can't question everything, like
Speaker 1: because at a certain point you have to trust something.
Speaker 1: Because the thing is the other thing about the conspiracy
Speaker 1: theory people to me is they trust people. It's not
Speaker 1: that they don't like In fact, they're like the most
Speaker 1: trusting people I've probably ever talked to in my life.
Speaker 1: It's always like, you know, but the difference is is
Speaker 1: that instead of trusting the CIA. They trust like a
Speaker 1: dude with like a clip art website, right. It Like
Speaker 1: it's not like I'm not saying you should trust the CIA.
Speaker 1: I don't think you should, certainly not as a black person.
Speaker 1: They have, like you know, there's like tons of history
Speaker 1: of like, no, they're pretty cool. Let's let's take it easy.
Speaker 1: The CIA is fucking nailing it. We all should be
Speaker 1: big fans, right what I'm saying, Like, you know, if
Speaker 1: you're gonna go like, Okay, I don't trust the New
Speaker 1: York Times, but like I would, I would be more
Speaker 1: amenable to it if you were to say, but I
Speaker 1: also don't trust this like dude on reddit. But they're
Speaker 1: completely all in on dude on Reddit. And that's like
Speaker 1: so to me, it's like not that they don't trust everything.
Speaker 1: It's like if anything, to me, they probably don't question enough.
Speaker 1: They just question. They question anything that isn't them being
Speaker 1: in on something. Yeah, I mean I think to some extent,
Speaker 1: it's it's the trust. Is I trust that that there
Speaker 1: are more questions here, and that's that's probably a good instinct, right,
Speaker 1: Like that almost feels like some scientific method ship. But
Speaker 1: then the questions that you're asking are falling far short
Speaker 1: of scientific anything scientific. It's just being like, well, how
Speaker 1: do you know? And it's like I don't, bro Like,
Speaker 1: I can't prove every single element of this because I'm
Speaker 1: not an expert in every field. No one is, and
Speaker 1: so it becomes this unwinnable game that only they can
Speaker 1: sort of like stake a flag in. Yeah, but it's
Speaker 1: also like there are experts in fields, but sometimes like
Speaker 1: they'll act like the person who is an expert can't
Speaker 1: be trusted specifically because they are an expert like that
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, And it's like but that, like I
Speaker 1: guess in in the end, it's like you can question everything,
Speaker 1: m but at a certain point you have to trust
Speaker 1: something specifically because you can't, like nobody can be an
Speaker 1: expert in everything, like, so ultimately you have to trust
Speaker 1: somebody about something. And you know, on balance, I'd probably
Speaker 1: rather trust like to do with a bunch of like
Speaker 1: degrees and stuff on it than like dude on Reddit,
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I think there's probably a balance that
Speaker 1: needs to be had of this probabilities wise, Yeah, I
Speaker 1: can say, you know, I fuck with the dude on
Speaker 1: reddit for for introducing me to questions that I had
Speaker 1: not considered, while simultaneously acknowledging that these educated people probably
Speaker 1: are coming from a level of no how and and
Speaker 1: learning that is still useful to the greater good of
Speaker 1: the world, or at least greater learning of the world. Right.
Speaker 1: It's it's a dance, you know what I mean? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I also like tend to like I kind of
Speaker 1: like operate on that, Like, yeah, you know what is
Speaker 1: like they say, like never like attribute to malice what
Speaker 1: you can attribute to stupidity or something like that. Like,
Speaker 1: I think a lot of stuff happens because people are idiots. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So like I don't need to like see like a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of like lines between everything. Sometimes if like
Speaker 1: the simplest explanation, this is probably like a big screw
Speaker 1: up right up. Yeah, And I do think that that
Speaker 1: also is is a thing that that conspiracy theory sometimes misses,
Speaker 1: is that it creates like a a giant, massive conspiratorial
Speaker 1: like everybody behind the curtain was moving perfectly to create
Speaker 1: this dangerous mayhem whatever thing to happen, when in reality,
Speaker 1: most of us are idiots. Like the absolutely vast majority
Speaker 1: of the world is run and moved by idiots. Even
Speaker 1: the people who are intelligent are only intelligent and specific
Speaker 1: ways and often fumble in other ones. And that means
Speaker 1: that those idiots funk up. And then that creates a
Speaker 1: way that that sometimes people are hurt or sabotaged or
Speaker 1: treated poorly, and we we ain't gonna apologize, so we
Speaker 1: just invest in the in the damage that we've done
Speaker 1: instead of just being like, oh, fuck, Steve's a dummy.
Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you. That's why that happened. Yeah, bro,
Speaker 1: Like I feel like, Um, the other thing about it
Speaker 1: is like it's interesting to me with like conspiracy theories
Speaker 1: a lot of times because it will be like this thing, well,
Speaker 1: they'll be like where everything behind the scenes operated perfectly
Speaker 1: to like make this conspiracy when like nothing works like that,
Speaker 1: Like every like for the conspiracy to be true, like
Speaker 1: all of the different parties and like organizations and people
Speaker 1: and all, and none of it will get out. None
Speaker 1: of it gets out officially. Everybody keeps their mouth shut,
Speaker 1: nobody tells their cousin when they're drinking or something like,
Speaker 1: none of none of that stuff ever happens, and everybody
Speaker 1: pulls off the conspiracy perfectly. Yeah, like it's that's that's
Speaker 1: just not how anything. Yeah, nobody's snitching, nobody's fumbling the
Speaker 1: the truly in like super like complicated thing that's happening
Speaker 1: in front of you. It it just is everybody's working
Speaker 1: perfectly and it it never fumbles. But apparently on the
Speaker 1: other side, we fumble all the time. It's yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's too complicated for for it to all work out
Speaker 1: the way that the conspiracy theorists want us to believe.
Speaker 1: That said, I think it's also more complicated than oftentimes
Speaker 1: the history books try to break it down where it's
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, a few mean men did a mean thing,
Speaker 1: and uh, those mean men are gone now and we're
Speaker 1: all sweets ever since. Yeah, No, I don't believe that
Speaker 1: ship either. I think you cannd like I think. I
Speaker 1: think there's a difference between saying they don't tell you
Speaker 1: the whole story versus that there is a completely different
Speaker 1: story that has nothing to do with it, Like, they
Speaker 1: obviously don't tell you the whole story, and they obviously
Speaker 1: try to sanitize it and everything. But yeah, I don't
Speaker 1: tend to go in too deep on conspiracy theories. There
Speaker 1: are certain ones that I'll be like, yeah, maybe I
Speaker 1: feel like there's probably something to that, and then they're
Speaker 1: like other ones that are obviously have been proven true. Well, well,
Speaker 1: let me ask you this before we go to break.
Speaker 1: I guess I want us to get back to the
Speaker 1: the conspiracy theory at hand. I think we've been living
Speaker 1: a lot in theory right now, which is nice. I'm
Speaker 1: enjoying the conversation. Don't you stop having a good convo
Speaker 1: with me, tru. But I'm wondering if there's any element
Speaker 1: of the conspiracy theory at hand that you are brought
Speaker 1: into do you want to mean that? Like, basically, b
Speaker 1: O b And and people like him are suggesting that
Speaker 1: slave ships did not exist, and that slavery as it was,
Speaker 1: at least as the way that we understand it didn't exist,
Speaker 1: and that black people existed in America well before we
Speaker 1: think they did, that we are more original to America
Speaker 1: than than we are led to believe. Is there any
Speaker 1: element of that where you're like, I can see what
Speaker 1: they're doing there from the stuff I've seen, No, WHOA,
Speaker 1: You're like like, these n is just making stuff up? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Because to me, it's like and I guess maybe in
Speaker 1: a way, I sort of respond viscerally to it because
Speaker 1: in a way it feels like letting white people off
Speaker 1: the hook in a way, Oh interesting, you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Because it feels like it's almost like they go, like,
Speaker 1: the Atlantic slave trade is like one of the greatest
Speaker 1: genocides in human history, and so for you to act
Speaker 1: like it didn't exist to me is like it's like
Speaker 1: Holocaust denial to me, Oh that's interesting, and there's like
Speaker 1: things like that that really bother me about and so
Speaker 1: and so. In a way, it kind of because because
Speaker 1: from what I've seen, basically the argument is like they
Speaker 1: tell you that so they can subjugate you, so that
Speaker 1: you don't know that you were already here, right, But
Speaker 1: they they the subjugation after slavery existed, whether slavery rehappened
Speaker 1: or not, right, But in saying that it didn't, you
Speaker 1: take a whole horrible piece of that history away and
Speaker 1: act like it didn't happen. Arguably one of the worst
Speaker 1: parts because of the amount of time slaves like we're
Speaker 1: you know, they were branded in Africa, had to walk
Speaker 1: like hut miles and miles and miles before they even
Speaker 1: sold put on the ships. Then the ships sat on
Speaker 1: the coast of Africa, often for months before they even departed.
Speaker 1: People just sat there longer on the coast of Africa, Africa,
Speaker 1: and those tight quarters on those ships before the ship
Speaker 1: has even left Africa to head across the Middle Passage. Right,
Speaker 1: And you've gotten rid of all of that, and you've
Speaker 1: turned it into all to be able to create like
Speaker 1: a American Nigga origin story. That yeah, it's like yeah,
Speaker 1: and I and to what purpose? Well, and to your point,
Speaker 1: I think it the purpose almost is is not worth
Speaker 1: the sacrifice that's being presented, right that, like the Transatlantic
Speaker 1: slave trade is not something you can you can dismiss
Speaker 1: or should be dismissed, rather simply to be able to say, naw, brother,
Speaker 1: wake up. You belong in America. You are of America,
Speaker 1: and you your history is rooted here, and so it
Speaker 1: creates this sort of complicated dance I guess where it's like.
Speaker 1: I think their intention is good right there, saying look,
Speaker 1: you don't have to feel like a foreigner in your
Speaker 1: own country. You should feel pride in sort of knowing
Speaker 1: that you are of this land. But in doing so,
Speaker 1: I think to your point, you're also dismissing the insane
Speaker 1: amount of genocide, sacrifice, whatever you want to call it,
Speaker 1: that happened before this from generation of generations of right.
Speaker 1: And I don't think it's a I don't I don't
Speaker 1: think it's a choice. Like I think it's like like
Speaker 1: to me, the whole reason Black Americans have can have
Speaker 1: pride and ownership in this land is because our blood
Speaker 1: is in the soil. That's all. That's the entire reason.
Speaker 1: Like this this ship is, this ship is mine. Like
Speaker 1: that's if there's anything that kind of bothers me about,
Speaker 1: Like some of that ship were like you know, all
Speaker 1: the like Trump eas and stuff, and they try to
Speaker 1: like claim that man like all of the people, all
Speaker 1: the black people that I grew up idolizing, like my
Speaker 1: black heroes who were Americans, whether that's Malcolm X, Martin
Speaker 1: Luther King, whether that's Jackie Robinson, like, whether that's Frederick Douglas,
Speaker 1: like whatever, Like we've fought in every single war this
Speaker 1: country has ever had against like odds, we've fought. We've
Speaker 1: helped build this bitch, we built the White House. Nigga.
Speaker 1: I don't need you to make up a fake story
Speaker 1: for me. Like, if anything, the whole reason this is
Speaker 1: the only shift I have is because that happened, so
Speaker 1: like it's it's like to me, it's like a false choice.
Speaker 1: It's like you're you're taking the reality of the pain
Speaker 1: of this a way to give me something that I
Speaker 1: already had. Bro Well, I'll say this, Your heroes may
Speaker 1: have fought here, but my heroes are Kim al Ju
Speaker 1: and Kim Tumbo, So we differ in that way. But
Speaker 1: the Kimba was a nugget, so for me him too.
Speaker 1: Those are the only civil rights leaders I acknowledge. Is
Speaker 1: uh former NBA centers. All right, we're gonna take a break.
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more Troy Walker and more, my
Speaker 1: mama told me. And we are back. You got what
Speaker 1: I need. Yeah, We're back here with more Troy Walker more.
Speaker 1: My mama told me. We're still talking about the possibility
Speaker 1: that slavery is a long con. It's a big ruse
Speaker 1: that was played on all of us because black people
Speaker 1: were in America to begin with. We've always been here,
Speaker 1: they say on the internet, in their lonely little pockets
Speaker 1: of stuff. Do you do you know at all if
Speaker 1: that there's any truth to that side of it, that
Speaker 1: that people were in fact originally in America before the
Speaker 1: trends and the Atlantic slave trade introduced us. I feel
Speaker 1: like I heard some kind of thing a long time
Speaker 1: ago about how like supposedly some ship like there was
Speaker 1: like some historical record thing for like ship from Africa
Speaker 1: having like made it to the New World at some point.
Speaker 1: But I, you know, i'd have to like dig into that,
Speaker 1: like and you know, research it. But I feel like
Speaker 1: I heard that like a long time ago. It's also
Speaker 1: possible that I completely just made that ship up. Well
Speaker 1: rest your furrow brow, Troy, because I took the time
Speaker 1: to do some of that research, and I can tell
Speaker 1: you that, as it turns out, there were a ton
Speaker 1: of black people who participated in the Age of Exploration,
Speaker 1: which was the early fifteen hundreds, and who found themselves
Speaker 1: traveling to North, central and South America for new lives
Speaker 1: and new opportunities. So black people were in at touching
Speaker 1: the America's well before the Transatlantic slave trade ever happened. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know about like the just being aware
Speaker 1: of like this sixteen nineteen project where they talk about
Speaker 1: the fact that you know, twenty something black people were
Speaker 1: sort of like introduced to America, and I believe jonestown
Speaker 1: and that was the beginning of the quote unquote slave
Speaker 1: trade to the America's But at the it says, at
Speaker 1: least from the very short and and possibly short sided research,
Speaker 1: I did that all the way back to the early
Speaker 1: fifteen hundreds, black people were kicking it around here. I
Speaker 1: mean I buy that all right, Like I bought Here's
Speaker 1: why I buy that, because you know, I was listening
Speaker 1: as other this other podcast is like a history podcast,
Speaker 1: is I'm like a big nerd and ship and uh,
Speaker 1: I was talking about how it was like a thing
Speaker 1: I had really considered just that like Africans are of
Speaker 1: the old world and and you know, I mean there's
Speaker 1: like a reason of Othellos are more right, Like there's
Speaker 1: like obviously it wasn't like Europeans and there weren't aware
Speaker 1: of black people, like that's right, and they know there
Speaker 1: was movement between all those countries and all that kind
Speaker 1: of stuff. Like it's it's to me, it stands to
Speaker 1: reason that black people would have made it to America. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in in another capacity. And I do think again, if
Speaker 1: we're talking about sort of like the intentional manipulation of history,
Speaker 1: this feels like a great example of it is not
Speaker 1: working to any colonizer's advantage to suggest that black people
Speaker 1: were here before they were do you know what I
Speaker 1: mean that Like if if early fifteen hundreds black people
Speaker 1: were had already been traveling and already knew how to
Speaker 1: get here and all that stuff, then that's sort of like, uh,
Speaker 1: dismisses a lot of the the quote unquote discovery of America,
Speaker 1: all the things that we've been told in terms of like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is when Americans has it worst started to arrive.
Speaker 1: So it's easier to just be like, na, man, black
Speaker 1: people didn't come here, and so we we brought him here.
Speaker 1: And so you know, technically you are visitors or at
Speaker 1: least unwelcomed guests in our territory, when in fact, we
Speaker 1: were all as unwelcomed as everybody else. You know what
Speaker 1: I mean, We're all sneaking as motherfucker of course like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that to me, I don't have. My issue is
Speaker 1: with like, no, slavery was fake. That's that's bullshit. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's my that's my issue. Yeah. No, And I think
Speaker 1: to that point, the fact that black people existed in
Speaker 1: America before slavery does not make slavery any less of
Speaker 1: a real thing for the millions who were unwillingly transported
Speaker 1: to this country. And moreover, I read in the article
Speaker 1: about the often overlooked relationship between black people like captive
Speaker 1: black people and Native Americans that was born during slavery. Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's like a whole broad like history of it. I think, Like,
Speaker 1: I think my thing about that conspiracy is it's like
Speaker 1: this weird like hotel inception thing and ends up being
Speaker 1: self defeating. It's like it's like man like all of
Speaker 1: this stuff, like like I was saying, like Africans of
Speaker 1: the of the old World, Like Africans, you know, countries
Speaker 1: had kingdoms and everything else. It stands, you know, for
Speaker 1: thousands of years. It stands completely to read boats ropes.
Speaker 1: Let's let's just be as frank as probably. It doesn't
Speaker 1: matter if you have kingdoms and math and all the other.
Speaker 1: Ship We had fucking boats and we knew how to travel,
Speaker 1: and y'all are trying to pretend like we were just
Speaker 1: so dumb and so naked that like we we couldn't
Speaker 1: even figure out how to float on water. Y'all didn't
Speaker 1: invent that ship man. Relax, Right, Yeah, of course My
Speaker 1: thing is, just don't tell me right now to the
Speaker 1: question or or the point of the black people in
Speaker 1: the Native Americans, because I do think that this is
Speaker 1: an important point that might coincide with some of what's
Speaker 1: happening in the hotels, the b O B mindset right
Speaker 1: the Native Americans, which I didn't realize, and it's not
Speaker 1: something that's often, I guess promoted, advertised, published in a
Speaker 1: lot of our history books. But Native Americans were also
Speaker 1: forced into slavery in this country alongside their black counterparts.
Speaker 1: Right they shared bondage, and oftentimes they found themselves in
Speaker 1: this shared bondage hooking up. They were intermingling. They you know,
Speaker 1: relationships were being born, and sometimes those relationships would even
Speaker 1: go so far as to marriage. But because that marriage
Speaker 1: between a Native American person and a black person was
Speaker 1: considered such a taboo, they never were allowed to make
Speaker 1: those marriages legal, and so there's very little documentation of
Speaker 1: the actual like bonds that were built between these groups.
Speaker 1: And subsequently, the children that were born of those relationships
Speaker 1: were often forced into a more extreme version of slavery
Speaker 1: because you're basically like a little cursed child, like a
Speaker 1: little uh, what the funk is this humunculous baby that
Speaker 1: nobody wanted, and so it just turns into this weird
Speaker 1: game I think for the the hotels that read this
Speaker 1: thing where we're conflating this relationship that that goes undocumented
Speaker 1: in these relationships that no one talks about with an
Speaker 1: origin story, these relationships weren't coming before America's started. We're
Speaker 1: just having relationships with the people who were here before
Speaker 1: America started and intermixing. And now your history is tied
Speaker 1: with their history in a way that isn't being acknowledged.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but I mean that's you know, you put
Speaker 1: people together, man, that's that happens. And it's just like
Speaker 1: black indentured servants would hook up with Irish indentured servants
Speaker 1: like you know and like all that, like the sixteen
Speaker 1: hundreds before it was like before slavery was specifically about race,
Speaker 1: and you know they were they were black indentured servants.
Speaker 1: They would sometimes like have babies and stuff with you know,
Speaker 1: these like white immigrants from Europe and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: It's like the race based slavery, my understanding is, came
Speaker 1: later as a way. You know, slavery had been like
Speaker 1: a thing throughout history, but to make it specifically like
Speaker 1: if your black, you're a slave was a very American thing. Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's a very American thing that we do in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, right, It's it's branding. We we
Speaker 1: truly are. We We love fucking capitalism in this country
Speaker 1: and we have since its conception, And so I think
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, it's like, well, what's the
Speaker 1: easiest way to ensure that our slaves remain slaves and
Speaker 1: don't start finding upward mobility? We base it off of
Speaker 1: their skin color, and that they can't dismiss your skin
Speaker 1: You can say you ain't Irish, you can say you
Speaker 1: ain't Italian, you can pretend to be not Jewish or
Speaker 1: whatever the funk it is that that we were attempting
Speaker 1: to attach to people's shame. But black, that's its permanent baby,
Speaker 1: and Native American y'all dark too, We'll fuck you up
Speaker 1: the same way, yeah, man, And I think like that
Speaker 1: that thing, there's something to the like, they're all these
Speaker 1: other aspects of the history that aren't told the same way.
Speaker 1: What I think the issue with and what they're doing
Speaker 1: is they go there all these other aspects of the
Speaker 1: history are told the same way. So that breaks It's
Speaker 1: like they go like the percentage of it overall in
Speaker 1: the in the whole like spectrum of the history of
Speaker 1: slavery and everything. Right like they dismissed like the seventy
Speaker 1: five of it because isn't as as well documented or
Speaker 1: as well publicized. Right like you watch like documentaries on slavery.
Speaker 1: They basically talked about the biggest part. They don't talk
Speaker 1: about the Native American part as much. They don't talk
Speaker 1: about if they do it all whatever. But that is
Speaker 1: not a reason to dismiss the slave trade. No, And
Speaker 1: it's it's similar in an odd way. I didn't know
Speaker 1: this either, but there were also Native Americans who owned
Speaker 1: black slaves. There were black people who owned slaves. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that this is a more complicated thing than just
Speaker 1: being like white people devil, Black people good, Nave Americans good.
Speaker 1: But like you know, there were people who were just
Speaker 1: taking advantage of the the times and the financial institutions
Speaker 1: at play, and they were able to own slaves. But
Speaker 1: even during their ownership, the intermingling, much in the way
Speaker 1: that we saw with the whites was still happening. And
Speaker 1: so it is it is creating even more complicated inconvenient
Speaker 1: conversations to say, like the slave owners were sucking the
Speaker 1: slaves and they didn't really want to be slave owners sometimes,
Speaker 1: but it was the best way to make money. And
Speaker 1: here's this and that and all of these things, when
Speaker 1: the reality is the easiest way to settle all of
Speaker 1: this is just to be like, we brought you here
Speaker 1: at at this point, you showed up, and we yelled
Speaker 1: at you for a while, beat the ship out of you,
Speaker 1: and then we let you go. Problem solved. Everybody's free,
Speaker 1: and now we get to move on with America as
Speaker 1: it is. And it's like, yeah, I think there's a
Speaker 1: few more things going on here, fellas. Oh yeah, there's
Speaker 1: a ton more going on. Yeah, man, I was like,
Speaker 1: I actually was like reading this thing the other day
Speaker 1: about this woman as a black woman who had been
Speaker 1: a slave and then she got her freedom, and I
Speaker 1: forget how I think she may be married like some
Speaker 1: into some money or whatever and like went out and
Speaker 1: got slaves as soon as she could. Yeah, like and
Speaker 1: like has like uh like a there's like a historical
Speaker 1: plantation I think in Florida that was like a black
Speaker 1: owned plantation, which is like one of the wildest fucking
Speaker 1: things you could think about, right, Yeah, it's like a
Speaker 1: national like landmark. I guess, I mean, I it seems
Speaker 1: less wild. I guess if she wasn't a former slave,
Speaker 1: like if it was just a lady who was like, hmm,
Speaker 1: I can't wait to own me a nigger. That seems
Speaker 1: I can't see how you make it to that point
Speaker 1: as a black person in this country. But if you
Speaker 1: went through it the idea of being like, as soon
Speaker 1: as I get out, I'm gonna put someone else through
Speaker 1: that ship. Yeah, that's wild. Yeah, it was so wild,
Speaker 1: man Like I went down like a whole like internet
Speaker 1: like rabbit hole, like just read, just reading about craziness. Damn.
Speaker 1: I hope I'm not related to her, you know. That's
Speaker 1: that's a part of our history. So much of our
Speaker 1: our history as black people has cut off from us,
Speaker 1: and and some of it is intentional, and some of
Speaker 1: it is just our our families don't track that stuff
Speaker 1: the same way that white historians have have long sort
Speaker 1: of made the checkpoints for track. But that eighty, well,
Speaker 1: it stopped at the water. We tried to trace it back, don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know what country we came from, but I
Speaker 1: guess Maryland is where I started. But that said, I
Speaker 1: do feel like a bunch of us. At some point
Speaker 1: they're gonna start figuring out that, like we just had
Speaker 1: black slave owners and our family white ones. You know
Speaker 1: what I mean That we're just maybe maybe you'll be
Speaker 1: the first person on talking to Henry Lewis Gates would
Speaker 1: be the first black dude to get that. He goes
Speaker 1: like this and you go, he's just gonna look at
Speaker 1: my papers and be like, hey, can we come to
Speaker 1: commercial fellas. Uh. I don't know if this one is
Speaker 1: as good of an episode as the previous, Like this
Speaker 1: is what your grandmother did, and you go, oh, not me,
Speaker 1: Oh guy, Oh, Henry, let's talk tons again. It was
Speaker 1: much better when you talk to nas. Yeah, somebody has
Speaker 1: to be the first black person to be embarrassed on
Speaker 1: finding your roots. Well, I guess I'm willing if it
Speaker 1: means more TV time, I'm willing to make that sacrifice.
Speaker 1: I will be the first person to come forward as
Speaker 1: the descendant of a black slave owner. Exciting times for me,
Speaker 1: terrible news for the rest of America. All Right, we're
Speaker 1: gonna say one more break. We'll be back with Marsry
Speaker 1: Walker I'm what my mama told me, and we all
Speaker 1: back anyway. Yeah, we're back here with more Troy Walker. More.
Speaker 1: My mama told me. We're still talking about the fact
Speaker 1: that the slave trade may be a long con. It
Speaker 1: might be a big old trick that that the white
Speaker 1: man is playing on us because we've been Americans this
Speaker 1: entire time. Is what is what they're saying, and Troy
Speaker 1: does not believe it. He's furious at the idea. He'll
Speaker 1: beat your ass. B o b That's what he said
Speaker 1: during break. If I see that, nigga, I'm a punch
Speaker 1: himent of the clouds and in the strange clouds. Okay,
Speaker 1: I want I have a few more, I guess research
Speaker 1: points that I'd love to unpack with you because one
Speaker 1: of the first questions that I asked myself as I
Speaker 1: was sort of sitting down to look through all of
Speaker 1: this is, and I'm maybe a little embarrassed to say it,
Speaker 1: but the question that popped in my head is why
Speaker 1: don't we see more slave ships? You know, because like
Speaker 1: to your point, there there are a few museums that
Speaker 1: have remnants and sort of like pieces of slave ships
Speaker 1: or ships that transported slaves, but it's not as if, like,
Speaker 1: given the scale of what the trans Atlantic slave trade was,
Speaker 1: it's not as if we're seeing a ship ton of
Speaker 1: them or even know where all of them, any of them,
Speaker 1: frankly ended up. And so that was the question that
Speaker 1: I immediately asked myself. Now, I have some answers, but
Speaker 1: I have a feeling you have an answer on the
Speaker 1: tip of your tongue as to why we haven't seen them.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I figured I didn't research. It's
Speaker 1: that's not your responsibility, like I know, like, uh, like
Speaker 1: the Smithsonian have some stuff, and like some others have
Speaker 1: some stuff in there. Like I figured it was probably
Speaker 1: because they were mostly would and uh, I figured that
Speaker 1: was probably a significant part of it. I also figured,
Speaker 1: it's not exactly like the kind of ship that like
Speaker 1: at the time they were trying to like you know,
Speaker 1: cot and lacquer and keep around, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like like this, like again, what you do that with
Speaker 1: Like oh, this ship, this ship took out six British frigates,
Speaker 1: right like the Revolutionary War. I get what you save
Speaker 1: that one. I don't know if you I don't know
Speaker 1: if you necessarily go through the effort to like you
Speaker 1: probably take it apart and build something frigates African niglets
Speaker 1: one of them, one of those. Yeah, it wasn't like
Speaker 1: they didn't know slavery was bad at the time. Like
Speaker 1: I feel like it's like the same, like you know,
Speaker 1: like sometimes they like in a way people will act
Speaker 1: like they didn't know, but they like they were well
Speaker 1: aware they knew slavery was bad. I don't know that
Speaker 1: anybody would trying to like right, there had to be
Speaker 1: people on the boat being like, hey, not gonna lie.
Speaker 1: This is fucked up. I know we can pay you.
Speaker 1: I'm really I'm really happy to be working with you fellas,
Speaker 1: but this is pretty fucked up. The original Declaration of
Speaker 1: Independence that Thomas Jefferson wrote called out King George saying like,
Speaker 1: how dare you have introduced slavery? You stole Like it's
Speaker 1: like they knew. Yeah. And to that point, I've done
Speaker 1: a fair amount of research on Thomas Jefferson's black ass,
Speaker 1: and uh, that's for the listeners. They know that he's
Speaker 1: secretly mixed. But the point is Thomas Jefferson, actually, despite
Speaker 1: having owned slaves, was super anti slavery. He like wrote
Speaker 1: constantly about like man slaveries trash and then would go
Speaker 1: fuck a slave later that night who who did not
Speaker 1: want to be a part of that. It wasn't like
Speaker 1: they were making love that these were unwilling fox. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like, uh, I mean it's not like this, but
Speaker 1: like it's like this. It's like how always a good
Speaker 1: start to an analogy. Like I'll be like, man, like, man,
Speaker 1: what Kanye's doing. He's like tripping, but like I'll buy
Speaker 1: any album he makes. There's like you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: Like I'll be like, oh, this is like horrible. Like
Speaker 1: he's like he's like stalking hers like all this stuff.
Speaker 1: And then like he'll put out like I saw like
Speaker 1: that video where he you know, berries Pete Davidson up
Speaker 1: to his neck and on and stuff, and I was like, man,
Speaker 1: that's like awful. This motherfucker's crazy. And then it was
Speaker 1: the first thing I played when I got in my
Speaker 1: car ship So you are I love, I'm awful, I'm terrible.
Speaker 1: Well to you and you said you you said would,
Speaker 1: and I a part of me wanted to do to
Speaker 1: Steve Harvey good answer, good? You know what I mean?
Speaker 1: What can I say? Would? He's saying, uh it turns
Speaker 1: out that, to your point, most of the materials that
Speaker 1: slave ships were made of weren't exactly going to make
Speaker 1: tests stand the test of time. Right, what is a
Speaker 1: very flimsy, easily deteriorating material, and between shipwrecks and time,
Speaker 1: the once powerful slave ships were no longer able to
Speaker 1: hold up the same Because I got me thinking like, well,
Speaker 1: is that actually true for all of these other famous
Speaker 1: ships that we've heard of over time, and the same
Speaker 1: apparently as true for ships like the Mayflower. The Mayflower
Speaker 1: no one has seen in any version of recent history,
Speaker 1: and many believe the ship was scrapped for timber and
Speaker 1: other recyclable materials. And I to your your grander point
Speaker 1: about the not wanting to keep these things around, I
Speaker 1: have to assume that with the fall of the trans
Speaker 1: atlantic slave trade, those ships likely face stay similar fate
Speaker 1: where they were recycled by the owners who could probably
Speaker 1: no longer afford to keep these deteriorating ships with no
Speaker 1: niggers at the bottom. You know what I mean. If
Speaker 1: you can't keep the blacks at the bottom, these ships
Speaker 1: are fucking worthless and carry quite a bit of shame
Speaker 1: with them. So we're gonna we'll turn those into uh
Speaker 1: panels for people's houses. Yeah, it's like UH, as a kid,
Speaker 1: you ever build like a lego thing that you're real
Speaker 1: proud of and then like you needed the legos for
Speaker 1: something else, and you might not want to take it apart,
Speaker 1: but you do. But now imagine that those legos were evil.
Speaker 1: I think about how fast you would take it apart?
Speaker 1: Right now? What if those legos killed your grandma? Now
Speaker 1: would you take that? Imagine if your entire family for
Speaker 1: the rest for generations would be shamed by that go
Speaker 1: house you built, It might change your mind about the plays.
Speaker 1: How fast you would take it apart. You're taking apart
Speaker 1: real fast. I love that. So in thinking about I
Speaker 1: guess the slave ships and the pieces that are often
Speaker 1: that that go missing. I found this article on National
Speaker 1: Geographic about a group that had uncovered UH It's called
Speaker 1: Portugal's sal Jose Paquette Day Africa. It was a slave
Speaker 1: ship that sets sail from Mozambique in destined for Brazil
Speaker 1: and basically never made it. A whole bunch of people
Speaker 1: died on that slave ship. And these black divers, these
Speaker 1: black scuba scuba divers are where the main people sort
Speaker 1: of leaving leading this excavation of the this this famous
Speaker 1: slave ship, which I thought was extremely telling. You know,
Speaker 1: black scuba divers are the only motherfucker's looking for this ship, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: because I don't know if it's like imagine being like
Speaker 1: the white dude who's like, well, I'm gonna find me's
Speaker 1: some slaves. What did you say? It was called? Again?
Speaker 1: You you're gonna make me say it again? Sal Jose
Speaker 1: Paquette day Africa. Yeah, I want to just say it
Speaker 1: again because it reminds me of like me trying to
Speaker 1: like order on the menu that I I'll take the
Speaker 1: sal Jose for this one. I'm not even gonna pretend
Speaker 1: to do Portuguese because I know it's not a Spanish accent,
Speaker 1: but I know it's not far. I just embarrassed myself
Speaker 1: if I even attempted. So I'm just gonna stick with
Speaker 1: the worst American version of it. Yeah. That's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: like when you go like, uh, your goal out of
Speaker 1: the country, like you know, like in some other country
Speaker 1: you don't speak the language, and you're like, um, you
Speaker 1: try to say it. Yeah. I I always find that
Speaker 1: when I travel, I it about I get about three
Speaker 1: attempts in before I completely revert to asking for the
Speaker 1: dude that can speak English to come help me with
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Like, I'll like, I went to Mexico
Speaker 1: City a couple of years ago and I was like
Speaker 1: by myself trying to figure some sh it out, and
Speaker 1: after about three attempts, I was like, you know what, y'all,
Speaker 1: I ain't gotta do this, and you don't need me
Speaker 1: to do this. There's enough of you that speak English.
Speaker 1: And I apologize for being the ignorant American who needs this,
Speaker 1: but I can't keep attempting to use my remedial Spanish
Speaker 1: and failing this major league. Yeah, man, I did the
Speaker 1: same thing in Montreal. I was like, I once I
Speaker 1: tried to pay with American money at a thing, and
Speaker 1: it's like it got really mad at me. I didn't
Speaker 1: mean to. I thought it would be like a good
Speaker 1: feel like every black person feels like you're gonna be
Speaker 1: a better tourist, like an international tourist than like what
Speaker 1: you hear white people are like. And now not even
Speaker 1: a little bro Nope, not even for a second, not
Speaker 1: even black countries. Once to Jamaica and we stayed at
Speaker 1: a resort and it was My entire family was just
Speaker 1: it was just black people complaining about the food about
Speaker 1: like it's too salty, and they're just stucking their teeth
Speaker 1: and rolling their eyes at you, just like, man, well,
Speaker 1: I guess this is what they did to us. So
Speaker 1: to the slave ship conversation, one of the things that
Speaker 1: you said that I think is really important. It's part
Speaker 1: of the reason we're not uncovering these remnants of this
Speaker 1: history is because white people aren't eagerly investing the efforts
Speaker 1: or the manpower to uncover this history. And this is
Speaker 1: actually a direct quote from the article that I this
Speaker 1: puts it in perspective in a really jarring way. But
Speaker 1: there are there were over twelve thousand ships making over
Speaker 1: forty voyages over two hundred fifty years of slave trade.
Speaker 1: To date, there are only five five slave ships in
Speaker 1: maritime history in the database. Why is that five? There's
Speaker 1: only five five ships? What do you when you say
Speaker 1: in the in the maritime database, what do you mean
Speaker 1: like that you can go visit, meaning that there are
Speaker 1: only five that they actually were that they've documented as
Speaker 1: their purpose was for transit transferring black people. As far
Speaker 1: as I'm understanding that, like they have five ships that
Speaker 1: they know for sure they can prove had black people
Speaker 1: on them transferring them to the these various places. I
Speaker 1: mean that seems low because I know there's like there's
Speaker 1: like documented like companies that they had in Europe that
Speaker 1: that was like that they would literally call themselves like
Speaker 1: the black like the Black Shipping like whatever. Like. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: I think I think part of it is an intentional
Speaker 1: sort of like erasing of that documentation after that. It's
Speaker 1: not it's not that they never documented it, it's that
Speaker 1: since then they did a lot of work to sort
Speaker 1: of like squeaky squeaky, squeaky clean that that situation. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think like after like because they banned the
Speaker 1: importation of slaves in like eighteen o eight, so after
Speaker 1: that it was illegal. Most of most of those slave
Speaker 1: runs would have been illegal, So you probably don't, you know,
Speaker 1: keep like records of it. But then yeah, they probably do,
Speaker 1: like didn't exactly take that much care and trying to
Speaker 1: keep up with it. No, and for what did you know,
Speaker 1: what do you want to tell people about this for
Speaker 1: cut it out? I don't know, man, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I think like it's one of those things where as
Speaker 1: if you if you remember that people at the time
Speaker 1: knew it was bad. Like a lot of stuff to
Speaker 1: me starts to fall into place where you go like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they probably didn't want to like maintain the records the
Speaker 1: same way they probably didn't wanna maintain the ships and
Speaker 1: like evidence of it, the same way. They probably were
Speaker 1: faster to repurpose stuff in ways that they wouldn't have
Speaker 1: otherwise to go like, oh, we used to use this
Speaker 1: ship for that, like now it's use it for this,
Speaker 1: and not say anything about what we used to use
Speaker 1: it for like that exactly. I think. I think the
Speaker 1: larger point that the quote is trying to make is
Speaker 1: that these documentations are being erased and then subsequently the
Speaker 1: ships are being repurposed, and so now we only have
Speaker 1: five ships that we can actually point to and say
Speaker 1: we know for sure this existing piece of material held
Speaker 1: the bodies of of black people being transferred from this
Speaker 1: place to the next. So those five like currently exact,
Speaker 1: like you can go see them. That's my understanding. Yeah,
Speaker 1: See that's okay. See I was confused. I thought you
Speaker 1: were saying like in like written record, No, no, no,
Speaker 1: I think they have more records of of people being transferred,
Speaker 1: although I don't know that they have nearly as many
Speaker 1: records as the amount of people transferred in the amount
Speaker 1: of trips. I think for the current existing like they
Speaker 1: they have five for sure. This is the body of
Speaker 1: the ship that transferred these people at the time, right, Okay,
Speaker 1: that makes more sense because I was like, man, like,
Speaker 1: they only know the names of five of them, no more. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's what I was saying. That's why I was like,
Speaker 1: I misunderstood you. I was like, if it was just five,
Speaker 1: if there's more Jackson's than there are names of ships,
Speaker 1: and maybe B O B is right, and and we're
Speaker 1: foolish to be having this conversation. Yeah, I misunderstood you. Okay,
Speaker 1: you can go visit five. Yeah, so like that, I
Speaker 1: don't know that I I don't know. That's like one
Speaker 1: of those things where you go, like would I want
Speaker 1: to visit a slave ship as a black man. They
Speaker 1: used to make us do it in like middle school
Speaker 1: and ship where you it wasn't we visited a slave ship,
Speaker 1: but you had to like we went to the museum
Speaker 1: and they would make you lay on the ground and
Speaker 1: do the thing where like you had to lay side
Speaker 1: by side with the other kids to to feel what
Speaker 1: it was like to be in the you know, the
Speaker 1: cargo of these ships. And uh, yeah, you don't need
Speaker 1: to do that. You could just tell me, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't. You don't need to feel that. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: better for white students. Maybe they need that that experience,
Speaker 1: that empathy to sort of flight kick in. For me,
Speaker 1: I was like, this feels fucking dumb. Why am I?
Speaker 1: Why am I here? I ain't nobody my grandma did that.
Speaker 1: It also doesn't like exactly work when you're gonna like
Speaker 1: get up in a second and they're gonna be like,
Speaker 1: all right, so here's everybody's sandwiches. Yeah, all right, lunchables.
Speaker 1: Uh if you got if you got the pizza lunchable
Speaker 1: and you stand in this line and everybody else this way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like that wasn't like. But I do think there's
Speaker 1: like an overall treatment of slavery that is in some
Speaker 1: ways not serious in in a general sense, like I
Speaker 1: I it's like it's like how people will have a
Speaker 1: plantation wedding, right, or how like a plantation Like there
Speaker 1: are plantations all over the South that are like airbnb
Speaker 1: s now right, or like you can go on YouTube.
Speaker 1: I did this the other day. I got so man,
Speaker 1: I got so fucking mad. You can go on YouTube,
Speaker 1: you know how people will do like the video real
Speaker 1: estate tours and like this lady starts off and goes
Speaker 1: so I just want to start off by saying that
Speaker 1: this this house did have enslaved workers, but all of
Speaker 1: the like slave stuff has been torn down, Like it
Speaker 1: was like a selling point, like don't worry the cabin. Yeah,
Speaker 1: don't worry the slaves. They got booted a while ago.
Speaker 1: But I could totally move into the Like that kind
Speaker 1: of thing is crazy when you really think about it, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think, to the larger point that you
Speaker 1: made early in the conversation, there's there's a real danger
Speaker 1: in our willingness to dismiss or skip over the scale
Speaker 1: and weight and importance of all of these things. And
Speaker 1: while I don't want to find myself in some situation
Speaker 1: where like I'm constantly yelling at people because of slavery,
Speaker 1: I do think that like we we need to find
Speaker 1: some sort of balance in saying like, hey dog, we
Speaker 1: don't just get to pretend like these plantations you've preserved
Speaker 1: don't come with the costs, don't didn't weren't built on
Speaker 1: the lives of a lot of people who made sacrifices
Speaker 1: they didn't even want to make. They weren't even that
Speaker 1: heroic in that sense. They didn't come here to be
Speaker 1: like I want to help America find it's it's voice.
Speaker 1: Like that wasn't the ship. They were forced into this
Speaker 1: ship and y'all then get to celebrate off of their bones.
Speaker 1: That's that's weird. Ye. Yeah, I don't think there's any
Speaker 1: like responsibility to be like constantly angry or yelling at me,
Speaker 1: but I do think it's important for me to be
Speaker 1: aware of how bad it was. Yeah, as far as
Speaker 1: informing my conception of self and conception of self within
Speaker 1: this nation. Doesn't mean I don't have proud like pride
Speaker 1: in it, but if but part of that comes from
Speaker 1: the rise, right, like from people going from about the
Speaker 1: lowest station they could to like we Tunnias on TV Bro. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like I can take pride
Speaker 1: in that like while knowing it. At the same time,
Speaker 1: I don't need be ob to like make up a
Speaker 1: thing and like dismissed this for me to like own it,
Speaker 1: you know. So just to be clear, you take no
Speaker 1: pride in the lessons from b Ob not one. Damn
Speaker 1: well bl b uh. This is a great episode for us,
Speaker 1: devastating episode for you, b O B. I don't think
Speaker 1: you get to walk away from this episode unscathed as
Speaker 1: much as you thought you might have at the beginning. Hey,
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes you put yourself out there. B O B.
Speaker 1: Was just putting himself out there and it didn't work
Speaker 1: out for him. But this is great. Troy, could you
Speaker 1: this is a fun episode. Could you tell the people
Speaker 1: where they can find you and what cool ship you
Speaker 1: have going on? They can find me on Twitter and
Speaker 1: Instagram at Troy Walker e s Q. Hell yeah, And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just right and right for the show
Speaker 1: doing stand up. Watch watch Jimmy Kimmel alive. Maybe you
Speaker 1: see some of my nonsense. All right, Well, watch the
Speaker 1: ma cam O Live. Follow Troy on on Instagram and Twitter,
Speaker 1: do all of that stuff. And as always, you can
Speaker 1: follow me at Lankston Kerman on all platforms. Would love
Speaker 1: for you to do that. I fucking love it. And uh,
Speaker 1: watch bus Down. It's on Peacock. It's it's a nonsense
Speaker 1: show I made with my friends, and I would love
Speaker 1: for more of you to see it. And then, finally,
Speaker 1: if you want to subscribe to the podcast, review the podcast,
Speaker 1: do all the things that podcasts are meant to have
Speaker 1: done to them consensually, then feel free to do it
Speaker 1: and send all of your conspiracy theories through my Mama
Speaker 1: pod at gmail dot com. I would love to hear
Speaker 1: from you. Okay, I did all my spield by bitch quos,
Speaker 1: more racists, mostly money n s W. I can't tell
Speaker 1: me nothing on my long