1 00:00:01,490 --> 00:00:05,070 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,230 --> 00:00:13,990 Speaker 2: Olay and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's 3 00:00:14,130 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too. We call Jerry Zorro all 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 2: the time because Zorro is Spanish for box. And this 5 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:23,500 Speaker 2: is Stuff You Should Know. 6 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:28,020 Speaker 1: Did you, has Zorro ever said olay? Is that a 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:28,460 Speaker 1: Zorro thing? 8 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:33,580 Speaker 2: No, that is a bumbling, stereotypical American thing to say. 9 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:35,420 Speaker 1: Oh, I would have said. 10 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, that would have been much better. 11 00:00:40,020 --> 00:00:43,529 Speaker 1: I don't think so, because I didn't even do a Z. 12 00:00:43,590 --> 00:00:45,409 Speaker 1: I just did three lines. I did it wrong. 13 00:00:49,790 --> 00:00:54,090 Speaker 2: So, yeah, we're talking Zorro today. And I have a 14 00:00:54,130 --> 00:00:55,100 Speaker 2: question for you, Chuck. 15 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:56,220 Speaker 3: Oh, boy. 16 00:00:56,300 --> 00:01:00,810 Speaker 1: You know, people are. Before you go, there's actual Reddit 17 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: threads about people loving the age-old Joshism of things like, 18 00:01:06,819 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: have you ever eaten a peanut or whatever? 19 00:01:09,380 --> 00:01:12,030 Speaker 2: Have you ever seen a grown man naked? 20 00:01:13,110 --> 00:01:14,350 Speaker 1: All right, fire away. What's this one? 21 00:01:15,050 --> 00:01:18,150 Speaker 2: Chuck, have you ever heard of Zorro? 22 00:01:18,170 --> 00:01:18,290 Speaker 3: No. 23 00:01:21,630 --> 00:01:22,639 Speaker 2: That was not. 24 00:01:23,510 --> 00:01:23,970 Speaker 3: Oh, no. 25 00:01:24,130 --> 00:01:27,010 Speaker 1: Anything else would have been a letdown. That was perfect. Yeah, 26 00:01:27,030 --> 00:01:29,490 Speaker 1: I know Zorro, and I guess I was into Zorro 27 00:01:29,510 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: at one point because after, at least like an hour ago, 28 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: after two days of kind of looking into this, I 29 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 1: remembered suddenly out of the blue that I went to 30 00:01:38,780 --> 00:01:40,700 Speaker 1: Zorro for Halloween when I was a kid one year. 31 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:41,660 Speaker 2: Oh, really? 32 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:42,420 Speaker 3: Yeah. 33 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 2: That's pretty great. 34 00:01:44,420 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: I was Zorro one year, and then I also remember I. 35 00:01:49,210 --> 00:01:51,530 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's not a movie that I hate the 36 00:01:51,570 --> 00:01:54,300 Speaker 1: term age as well, but I'm sure there's all sorts 37 00:01:54,330 --> 00:02:01,140 Speaker 1: of terrible stereotypical homophobic jokes in it. But boy, when 38 00:02:01,180 --> 00:02:03,620 Speaker 1: I was a kid, I loved Zorro the Gay Blade 39 00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:04,220 Speaker 1: a lot. 40 00:02:04,780 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: I think it's one big homophobic joke, isn't it? 41 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:10,780 Speaker 1: Well, I mean, the plot is that Zorro is injured 42 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,870 Speaker 1: and his twin gay brother shows up to town to 43 00:02:16,090 --> 00:02:16,970 Speaker 1: take care of business. 44 00:02:17,330 --> 00:02:18,290 Speaker 2: And what's his brother's name? 45 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:21,300 Speaker 3: Oh, God. 46 00:02:22,810 --> 00:02:25,150 Speaker 1: Bunny Periwinkle? No, what is it? 47 00:02:25,730 --> 00:02:26,690 Speaker 2: Bunny Wigglesworth. 48 00:02:26,750 --> 00:02:27,929 Speaker 1: Bunny Wigglesworth. 49 00:02:28,910 --> 00:02:29,570 Speaker 3: So dumb. 50 00:02:29,590 --> 00:02:31,770 Speaker 1: I would like to check it out again. I wonder 51 00:02:31,810 --> 00:02:34,029 Speaker 1: if there's any sort of forward-thinking humor at all. 52 00:02:35,050 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 2: I don't get the impression there is. I watched it 53 00:02:38,060 --> 00:02:39,739 Speaker 2: when I was younger, too, but everything was just ridiculous. 54 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:43,910 Speaker 2: Right over my head. I was like, that guy talks funny, basically. 55 00:02:43,940 --> 00:02:46,410 Speaker 2: I was about that age. And so I went back 56 00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:50,299 Speaker 2: and read the Roger Ebert, like 1981 review of it. 57 00:02:50,310 --> 00:02:51,549 Speaker 1: Oh, what did Ebert think? 58 00:02:51,889 --> 00:02:54,109 Speaker 2: He thought it was pretty dumb. He said that like 59 00:02:54,150 --> 00:02:56,690 Speaker 2: they played it in all the wrong ways, that it 60 00:02:56,730 --> 00:02:59,510 Speaker 2: could have been funnier, but the whole premise was just 61 00:02:59,590 --> 00:03:02,910 Speaker 2: not good because none of it was played straight. It 62 00:03:02,950 --> 00:03:05,650 Speaker 2: was all played jokey in that they didn't pull it off, 63 00:03:05,690 --> 00:03:07,790 Speaker 2: you know? So he gave it a two out of four. 64 00:03:07,970 --> 00:03:10,070 Speaker 2: So I guess he halfway liked it. Yeah. 65 00:03:10,350 --> 00:03:14,830 Speaker 1: Well, maybe he liked the one brother because George Hamilton 66 00:03:14,850 --> 00:03:17,389 Speaker 1: played both. Yeah. 67 00:03:17,570 --> 00:03:22,530 Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe. He's like, I like the Bunny Wigglesworth character, 68 00:03:22,590 --> 00:03:23,410 Speaker 2: but the Zorro. 69 00:03:24,889 --> 00:03:28,070 Speaker 1: And then I was also in the theaters for the 70 00:03:28,070 --> 00:03:32,650 Speaker 1: 1998 and Antonio Banderas version and really enjoyed it. So 71 00:03:32,710 --> 00:03:34,330 Speaker 1: I guess I was into Zorro at one point. 72 00:03:35,060 --> 00:03:38,550 Speaker 2: Was that because you had seen Desperado, the sequel to 73 00:03:38,690 --> 00:03:41,790 Speaker 2: El Mariachi, and were like, I like this Antonio Banderas cat? 74 00:03:42,450 --> 00:03:44,250 Speaker 1: Which one was first? Was that Zorro? 75 00:03:45,230 --> 00:03:47,570 Speaker 2: Zorro came after Desperado, like three years after. 76 00:03:47,590 --> 00:03:47,950 Speaker 1: Did it really? 77 00:03:48,210 --> 00:03:48,570 Speaker 2: Oh, okay. 78 00:03:49,110 --> 00:03:50,850 Speaker 1: I mean, I liked all that stuff. That was peak 79 00:03:50,950 --> 00:03:52,090 Speaker 1: Antonio Banderas for me. 80 00:03:52,590 --> 00:03:56,970 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Desperado launched Antonio Banderas to his peak, 81 00:03:57,030 --> 00:03:58,010 Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken. 82 00:03:58,430 --> 00:03:59,510 Speaker 1: Great movie. I loved it. 83 00:03:59,970 --> 00:04:03,300 Speaker 2: So good. So good. Although I've always felt bad for 84 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:06,180 Speaker 2: the guy who was in the first El Mariachi that 85 00:04:06,220 --> 00:04:11,380 Speaker 2: Robert Rodriguez traded up to Antonio Banderas from. Yeah. 86 00:04:11,540 --> 00:04:13,770 Speaker 1: And it was a weird sort of sequel, sort of remake, 87 00:04:13,830 --> 00:04:16,130 Speaker 1: but I liked them both. El Mariachi is great. 88 00:04:16,870 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: I don't know if I ever saw it. 89 00:04:18,390 --> 00:04:22,670 Speaker 1: It's really good. And he made it for like $ 8, 000 90 00:04:21,190 --> 00:04:21,550 Speaker 1: or something. 91 00:04:21,930 --> 00:04:25,410 Speaker 2: No, I know. That's like the legendary indie film movie 92 00:04:26,350 --> 00:04:28,610 Speaker 2: production story. That's what I was after. 93 00:04:28,690 --> 00:04:29,740 Speaker 1: You got there. 94 00:04:30,890 --> 00:04:33,980 Speaker 2: So, yeah, let's get back to Zorro. And Antonio Banderas 95 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,180 Speaker 2: wasn't the biggest tangent we've ever been on because he 96 00:04:36,220 --> 00:04:38,300 Speaker 2: did play Zorro and he did kind of bring Zorro 97 00:04:38,380 --> 00:04:42,300 Speaker 2: back for a whole new generation. But Zorro, my friend, 98 00:04:42,740 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: has been around for more than 100 years. Zorro recently 99 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,780 Speaker 2: celebrated his 107th birthday, Chuck. 100 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,130 Speaker 1: That's right, because it came about for the first time 101 00:04:55,150 --> 00:04:59,150 Speaker 1: in a Pulp Fiction serial in 1919 called The Curse 102 00:04:59,170 --> 00:05:05,410 Speaker 1: of Capistrano. And All Story Weekly written by Johnston McCulley. 103 00:05:05,470 --> 00:05:06,210 Speaker 1: Not what I expected. 104 00:05:07,170 --> 00:05:10,669 Speaker 2: No. Irish-American journalist. I think he was a political journalist 105 00:05:10,730 --> 00:05:14,270 Speaker 2: and he just wrote fiction on the side. And he 106 00:05:14,290 --> 00:05:19,660 Speaker 2: had basically, I guess, heard stories and legends of real-life 107 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:25,460 Speaker 2: bandits and banditos everywhere. In California's history, specifically, there is 108 00:05:25,620 --> 00:05:29,059 Speaker 2: a whole big podcast just waiting for us to do 109 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:39,190 Speaker 2: on the transition from Spanish-Mexican rule to Anglo-American rule of California. 110 00:05:39,330 --> 00:05:42,250 Speaker 2: Because that was a rough and ugly transition, it turns out. 111 00:05:42,850 --> 00:05:48,349 Speaker 2: And that's essentially where Zorro takes place. Because of those transitions, 112 00:05:48,370 --> 00:05:51,060 Speaker 2: because of all the injustice, it was a little bit 113 00:05:51,180 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: mixed and different, muddled up, I guess, as we'll see 114 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,620 Speaker 2: by Macaulay. But the stuff that he based it on 115 00:05:57,660 --> 00:06:01,460 Speaker 2: was taking place around that time. And actually, a lot 116 00:06:01,500 --> 00:06:03,539 Speaker 2: of this stuff did happen in real life, although there 117 00:06:03,580 --> 00:06:05,020 Speaker 2: was no actual Zorro. 118 00:06:05,670 --> 00:06:08,050 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. I don't think we have to go 119 00:06:08,070 --> 00:06:11,470 Speaker 1: over all of these people that it was perhaps based on, 120 00:06:11,570 --> 00:06:14,550 Speaker 1: unless you want to. But we should definitely talk about... 121 00:06:15,150 --> 00:06:20,950 Speaker 1: Joaquin Murrieta, because that actually shows up in the Antonio 122 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,300 Speaker 1: Banderas movie version. 123 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:24,620 Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh, OK. 124 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:24,860 Speaker 3: Yeah. 125 00:06:24,900 --> 00:06:28,839 Speaker 2: So it's me. So Joaquin Murrieta is. 126 00:06:29,260 --> 00:06:30,580 Speaker 1: Wait, did you not get your script this week? 127 00:06:31,140 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 2: No, I didn't. I didn't get that. What do they 128 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 2: call the last minute revisions? 129 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:35,779 Speaker 1: Sides. 130 00:06:36,140 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 2: Sides. 131 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:38,219 Speaker 3: Yeah. All right. 132 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 2: Momo ate them. Oh, no. So Joaquin Murrieta, that's probably 133 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:47,140 Speaker 2: my favorite first name in the whole world. I like it. 134 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,940 Speaker 2: He may not have actually existed. He was definitely a 135 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 2: figure from legend. There is some support that he actually, 136 00:06:56,940 --> 00:07:00,030 Speaker 2: that he might have existed. But for the most part, 137 00:07:00,089 --> 00:07:02,630 Speaker 2: everything we know about him is legend and then was 138 00:07:02,690 --> 00:07:05,950 Speaker 2: based on a fiction novel that was based on the legend. 139 00:07:06,390 --> 00:07:08,570 Speaker 2: But the legend goes essentially like this, that he was 140 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:14,100 Speaker 2: born in Sonora in Mexico in 1830. And when he 141 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:19,830 Speaker 2: was 18, he went to California to become a minor 48er, 142 00:07:19,890 --> 00:07:24,970 Speaker 2: I guess, in the gold brush. And he became one 143 00:07:25,010 --> 00:07:29,450 Speaker 2: of many Mexican prospectors who had a claim and had 144 00:07:29,470 --> 00:07:32,270 Speaker 2: his own little mine, did his mining there. And everything 145 00:07:32,310 --> 00:07:35,660 Speaker 2: was going just fine for two years until California became 146 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:38,820 Speaker 2: a U.S. state. And the Anglo-Americans were like, this is 147 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,239 Speaker 2: our state now. Give us your mine. 148 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:43,900 Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, this stuff has been going on a 149 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: long time, all the way back in 1850. They said, hey, 150 00:07:47,140 --> 00:07:49,620 Speaker 1: even though you've been here forever, we are here now. 151 00:07:50,270 --> 00:07:52,250 Speaker 1: So that makes you a foreigner, even though you're in 152 00:07:52,270 --> 00:07:54,550 Speaker 1: your homeland. And so we're going to pass the Foreign 153 00:07:54,590 --> 00:07:59,230 Speaker 1: Miners Act. And that basically rids us of you because 154 00:07:59,290 --> 00:08:02,270 Speaker 1: what it did is it required non-citizens to pay a 155 00:08:02,370 --> 00:08:05,030 Speaker 1: lot of money to be able to mine in the 156 00:08:05,070 --> 00:08:09,130 Speaker 1: state of California, which I imagine it wasn't every last 157 00:08:09,190 --> 00:08:12,300 Speaker 1: Mexican prospector, but probably most of them had to hit 158 00:08:12,330 --> 00:08:15,870 Speaker 1: the road. And As we'll see why this is, you know, 159 00:08:15,900 --> 00:08:21,770 Speaker 1: possibly a Zorro influence. Murrieta was one of those guys. 160 00:08:21,830 --> 00:08:23,230 Speaker 1: And he was like, you know, it's kind of a 161 00:08:23,290 --> 00:08:24,790 Speaker 1: Robin Hood type story. He was like, you know what? 162 00:08:25,510 --> 00:08:28,630 Speaker 1: I'm not taking this sitting down or standing up. I'm 163 00:08:28,650 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: going to start robbing you guys for a little payback. 164 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: And the governor saw this and he's like, all right, well, 165 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,819 Speaker 1: now you have a price on your head. And, you know, 166 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:39,970 Speaker 1: depends on whether you believe this is true. But there 167 00:08:39,990 --> 00:08:42,650 Speaker 1: was a California Ranger like this is the real historical record. 168 00:08:43,530 --> 00:08:47,140 Speaker 1: In 1853, a California ranger said, you know what? I've 169 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,940 Speaker 1: got him right here. But part of him only. I've 170 00:08:50,980 --> 00:08:53,840 Speaker 1: got his head, actually. And it's here in this pickle jar. 171 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:54,820 Speaker 1: And this is Murrieta. 172 00:08:55,260 --> 00:08:58,550 Speaker 2: Yeah. Everybody's like, that's gross. You carry that around with you? 173 00:08:58,570 --> 00:08:59,670 Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, check it out. 174 00:09:00,010 --> 00:09:01,210 Speaker 3: Yeah. 175 00:09:01,470 --> 00:09:04,890 Speaker 2: And yes, that is the only thing we know that's 176 00:09:05,290 --> 00:09:08,050 Speaker 2: on the historical record. The governor did put a bounty 177 00:09:08,130 --> 00:09:11,569 Speaker 2: on his head and a ranger did. have a head 178 00:09:11,630 --> 00:09:14,330 Speaker 2: in a pickle jar. And he said was Marietta's right. 179 00:09:14,350 --> 00:09:17,540 Speaker 2: That's all we know. Everything else we just said was, 180 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,319 Speaker 2: was legend. And the reason, um, his legend continued is 181 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:25,390 Speaker 2: that in 1854, a novel came out that basically, um, 182 00:09:26,429 --> 00:09:31,050 Speaker 2: turned him into a folk hero. This legend, possibly real person, 183 00:09:31,090 --> 00:09:34,130 Speaker 2: Joaquin Murrieta, became a folk hero because of the novel. 184 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: And then because the novel was written in 1854, as 185 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:41,620 Speaker 2: time wore on, stuff people knew from the novel became 186 00:09:42,059 --> 00:09:44,980 Speaker 2: embedded into the legend and maybe was taken as true. 187 00:09:45,620 --> 00:09:50,180 Speaker 2: And just the fact that he existed, we know, likely 188 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:55,180 Speaker 2: influenced Macaulay. in creating Zorro, like for certain that's the 189 00:09:55,220 --> 00:09:58,310 Speaker 2: guy who's most associated with him. I do feel like 190 00:09:58,350 --> 00:10:02,250 Speaker 2: we should talk about Solomon Pico, though, real quick, because 191 00:10:02,330 --> 00:10:05,390 Speaker 2: he was he definitely did live and he was a B.A. 192 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 3: All right. 193 00:10:06,700 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: So Pico was born in the San Juan Valley in 1821, 194 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,319 Speaker 1: and he was actually cousin of Pio Pico, who was 195 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,020 Speaker 1: California's last Mexican governor. 196 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:16,579 Speaker 3: Right. 197 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:18,900 Speaker 1: And he was given a land parcel. And this, you know, 198 00:10:18,940 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: like we said, this is all true stuff. He was 199 00:10:20,860 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: given a land parcel in 1844 and lost that land 200 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,069 Speaker 1: when that transition that you were talking about happened from, 201 00:10:28,330 --> 00:10:33,350 Speaker 1: you know, Mexican California to Anglo California. And he did 202 00:10:33,410 --> 00:10:37,010 Speaker 1: like Zorro would later do and like Murrieta did. He's like, 203 00:10:37,150 --> 00:10:40,090 Speaker 1: all right, it's vengeance time. And not only that is 204 00:10:40,450 --> 00:10:42,450 Speaker 1: I'm going to wear your ears around my neck in 205 00:10:42,490 --> 00:10:42,890 Speaker 1: a necklace. 206 00:10:43,730 --> 00:10:47,980 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's known as like probably the most violent outlaw 207 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: or bandito who ever lived, who actually who did live. 208 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:55,620 Speaker 2: So he would just basically go around killing Anglo-Americans as 209 00:10:55,660 --> 00:10:58,430 Speaker 2: he came across them. And that actually led to his 210 00:10:58,490 --> 00:11:02,330 Speaker 2: execution because he saw what he thought was a white 211 00:11:02,370 --> 00:11:04,890 Speaker 2: American guy in a restaurant. And he went up to 212 00:11:04,929 --> 00:11:06,790 Speaker 2: him and stabbed him to death. And that guy was like, 213 00:11:06,970 --> 00:11:12,320 Speaker 2: I'm British gov. And that was the end of Pico. 214 00:11:12,750 --> 00:11:15,300 Speaker 2: So those two guys, and by the way, we just 215 00:11:15,340 --> 00:11:18,540 Speaker 2: spoke about Pico in a very crisp and economical manner. Chuck, 216 00:11:18,580 --> 00:11:20,600 Speaker 2: congratulations on that. 217 00:11:20,820 --> 00:11:24,739 Speaker 1: And I think Pico's last words, was he executed for that? Yeah. 218 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: I think his last words were, what's the difference? 219 00:11:28,990 --> 00:11:33,890 Speaker 2: Right. So, yeah. So those two guys and then probably 220 00:11:33,950 --> 00:11:36,550 Speaker 2: at least a couple others were At the very least, 221 00:11:36,610 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: they're legends and stories. Somehow Macaulay heard about these and 222 00:11:41,080 --> 00:11:43,260 Speaker 2: that's what he based Zorro on. I think that's the 223 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:44,859 Speaker 2: upshot of what we're trying to say here. 224 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,580 Speaker 1: Yeah. And as we'll see and we'll kind of get 225 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,100 Speaker 1: to why in a minute. Also, the 1905 novel, The 226 00:11:51,140 --> 00:11:51,980 Speaker 1: Scarlet Pimpernel. 227 00:11:52,260 --> 00:11:52,540 Speaker 2: Yeah. 228 00:11:53,090 --> 00:11:56,010 Speaker 1: I've definitely seen that that's pretty much verified by Macaulay himself. 229 00:11:56,750 --> 00:12:00,790 Speaker 1: But he's still alive. No, I don't. I don't think 230 00:12:00,830 --> 00:12:01,650 Speaker 1: Macaulay is still alive. 231 00:12:01,990 --> 00:12:02,250 Speaker 2: OK. 232 00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:04,310 Speaker 1: But he verified it when he was alive. 233 00:12:04,550 --> 00:12:04,970 Speaker 2: I got you. 234 00:12:05,340 --> 00:12:09,390 Speaker 1: His last words were, it was partially the scarlet pimpernel. 235 00:12:11,170 --> 00:12:14,370 Speaker 2: And his widow went, I knew it. I knew it. 236 00:12:15,450 --> 00:12:18,530 Speaker 1: So for his book that he wrote, The Curse of Capistrano, 237 00:12:18,570 --> 00:12:21,849 Speaker 1: you mentioned earlier that he took some sort of license. 238 00:12:22,110 --> 00:12:24,370 Speaker 1: I guess it wasn't really licensed because he was just 239 00:12:24,390 --> 00:12:27,950 Speaker 1: making a story up based on legend. But he said 240 00:12:27,990 --> 00:12:31,380 Speaker 1: it a few decades earlier before It wasn't during that 241 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,719 Speaker 1: transition from Mexican California to Anglo California. It was still 242 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: a Spanish colony at the time that he set the 243 00:12:37,300 --> 00:12:40,780 Speaker 1: first Zorro story. And in this case, he really changed 244 00:12:40,820 --> 00:12:45,860 Speaker 1: it up because Zorro is defending the indigenous population there 245 00:12:46,300 --> 00:12:49,010 Speaker 1: from Spanish authorities, not Anglo Americans. 246 00:12:50,030 --> 00:12:50,270 Speaker 2: Right. 247 00:12:50,450 --> 00:12:50,610 Speaker 1: So. 248 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 2: That makes Zorro even more noble because he's not indigenous. 249 00:12:56,500 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 2: He is white. He is directly of Spanish descent with 250 00:13:00,820 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 2: no indigenous blood in him. So him defending the rights 251 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:08,890 Speaker 2: of indigenous people from the Spanish authorities really kind of 252 00:13:08,950 --> 00:13:13,490 Speaker 2: makes him like a hero character even more, you know? 253 00:13:13,970 --> 00:13:14,270 Speaker 3: Yeah. 254 00:13:14,429 --> 00:13:18,490 Speaker 1: And for McCulley's side, he gets to avoid just the 255 00:13:18,530 --> 00:13:22,350 Speaker 1: sort of mess of telling the story of the Anglo 256 00:13:22,390 --> 00:13:23,510 Speaker 1: takeover of California. 257 00:13:23,890 --> 00:13:26,569 Speaker 2: Yeah, because he was writing this stuff for like an 258 00:13:26,630 --> 00:13:27,950 Speaker 2: American audience, right? 259 00:13:27,970 --> 00:13:28,250 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. 260 00:13:28,270 --> 00:13:31,790 Speaker 2: So he just kind of, you know, rejiggered a few things, 261 00:13:31,890 --> 00:13:32,270 Speaker 2: I guess. 262 00:13:33,620 --> 00:13:34,260 Speaker 1: Should we take a break? 263 00:13:35,120 --> 00:14:09,870 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then we'll talk about the curse, Capistrano. Capistrano. Chuck, 264 00:14:10,170 --> 00:14:12,309 Speaker 2: we're back. I want to give a hat tip to 265 00:14:12,610 --> 00:14:14,809 Speaker 2: Julia because she did a really great job of getting 266 00:14:14,890 --> 00:14:21,290 Speaker 2: across the action-adventure sense of Zorro in her article that 267 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:26,090 Speaker 2: she sent us. So hat tip to you, Julia. Okay, 268 00:14:26,110 --> 00:14:28,050 Speaker 2: I just wanted to get that done. Let me check 269 00:14:28,090 --> 00:14:28,730 Speaker 2: that off. Great. 270 00:14:29,150 --> 00:14:32,530 Speaker 1: Yeah, we tip our sombrero to you. And if you're thinking, sorry, 271 00:14:32,550 --> 00:14:35,330 Speaker 1: I didn't wear a sombrero, we'll just hold on to 272 00:14:35,370 --> 00:14:37,740 Speaker 1: your sombrero because he actually did it first. 273 00:14:38,460 --> 00:14:44,060 Speaker 2: Yeah, in The Curse of Capistrano. It's set in Southern 274 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 2: California around Los Angeles around the mission of San Juan Capistrano, 275 00:14:48,860 --> 00:14:51,860 Speaker 2: which is where the name comes from. And again, The 276 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:57,190 Speaker 2: Spanish authorities are pushing the indigenous Mexican population around, taking 277 00:14:57,230 --> 00:15:02,590 Speaker 2: their land, trampling their rights, like just basically being terrible people. 278 00:15:02,650 --> 00:15:05,630 Speaker 2: And they're all doing this because the governor of California 279 00:15:05,730 --> 00:15:07,310 Speaker 2: is instructing them to. Right. 280 00:15:07,770 --> 00:15:07,930 Speaker 3: Yeah. 281 00:15:08,030 --> 00:15:13,660 Speaker 2: So there's the mayor of Los Angeles is his son 282 00:15:13,900 --> 00:15:17,300 Speaker 2: is named Don Diego Vega. His first name is not Don. 283 00:15:17,960 --> 00:15:22,070 Speaker 2: Don is honorific that you would honor. call somebody out 284 00:15:22,110 --> 00:15:25,660 Speaker 2: of respect, like sir or lord. So his first name 285 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: is Diego, not Don. Yeah, like in The Godfather. Yeah, exactly. 286 00:15:31,780 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. I never put those two together. 287 00:15:34,540 --> 00:15:35,600 Speaker 1: Did you really not? 288 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 2: Zorro and The Godfather are basically the same movie. 289 00:15:40,420 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: Zorro the gay blade in The Godfather. 290 00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 2: That's right, yeah. So Don Diego Vega, he's the heir 291 00:15:45,740 --> 00:15:48,740 Speaker 2: to the family fortune. I'm not sure how the mayor 292 00:15:48,920 --> 00:15:52,300 Speaker 2: made a fortune, but He is not Zorro. He's the 293 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,230 Speaker 2: antithesis of Zorro, Don Diego Vega is. Mm-hmm. 294 00:15:56,690 --> 00:15:59,030 Speaker 1: In modern parlance, you might call him soft. He lives 295 00:15:59,090 --> 00:16:01,250 Speaker 1: a life of privilege. He's kind of a dandy fop. 296 00:16:01,690 --> 00:16:02,230 Speaker 3: Yeah. 297 00:16:02,250 --> 00:16:04,490 Speaker 1: And his dad is like, oh, gosh, this guy, this 298 00:16:04,530 --> 00:16:09,170 Speaker 1: son is so disappointing to me. The women don't even 299 00:16:09,210 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: like him. But this is all a ruse, everybody, because 300 00:16:13,380 --> 00:16:16,220 Speaker 1: he is secretly Zorro at night. He's kind of doing 301 00:16:16,260 --> 00:16:19,020 Speaker 1: that thing where, you know, you play the opposite of 302 00:16:19,060 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: who you are as a masked figure during the daytime 303 00:16:21,460 --> 00:16:24,150 Speaker 1: so no one can, you know— No one would ever 304 00:16:24,250 --> 00:16:25,870 Speaker 1: suspect that you are he. 305 00:16:27,130 --> 00:16:29,910 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, if there's this isn't like the Los 306 00:16:29,990 --> 00:16:32,630 Speaker 2: Angeles of today is still fairly small. So I'm sure 307 00:16:32,670 --> 00:16:35,860 Speaker 2: there's a small pool of potential suspects who could have 308 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 2: been Zorro. So he really had to take some some 309 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,300 Speaker 2: real steps to throw him off of his trail. And 310 00:16:43,060 --> 00:16:45,980 Speaker 2: that's what he did. It worked too well, as we'll see. 311 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,100 Speaker 1: That's right. 312 00:16:47,610 --> 00:16:49,910 Speaker 2: So he's Don Diego during the day, and then at 313 00:16:50,050 --> 00:16:51,910 Speaker 2: night he goes down to the cellar. He meets with 314 00:16:51,970 --> 00:16:57,170 Speaker 2: his trusty assistant, Bernardo, and he puts on Chuck. 315 00:16:58,110 --> 00:16:59,570 Speaker 1: He puts on that sombrero, baby. 316 00:17:00,490 --> 00:17:03,390 Speaker 2: He puts on a sombrero. I imagine, I'm not sure 317 00:17:03,410 --> 00:17:05,609 Speaker 2: if this is in there, but the kind of sombrero 318 00:17:05,650 --> 00:17:10,450 Speaker 2: with like the little colored balls that hang around down. Okay. 319 00:17:11,430 --> 00:17:14,110 Speaker 2: That's the kind of sombrero I see when I imagine 320 00:17:14,150 --> 00:17:14,770 Speaker 2: a sombrero. 321 00:17:15,780 --> 00:17:18,800 Speaker 1: Oh, see, I immediately pictured like the Three Amigos style, 322 00:17:19,660 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: but I like both. 323 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 2: I think that I'm kind of talking about that. 324 00:17:25,260 --> 00:17:25,480 Speaker 1: Okay. 325 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:31,260 Speaker 2: The little colored like fabric balls hanging around the rim 326 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:31,820 Speaker 2: of the brim. 327 00:17:32,260 --> 00:17:34,399 Speaker 1: Hey, I know what you're talking about. Those things have 328 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: got to have a name. I just don't know it. 329 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:37,260 Speaker 3: Right. 330 00:17:37,780 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 2: If the things that are on the ends of a 331 00:17:39,580 --> 00:17:41,900 Speaker 2: shoelace have a name, those have to have a name 332 00:17:41,940 --> 00:17:42,340 Speaker 2: for sure. 333 00:17:42,940 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So he also wears a purple cape in 334 00:17:45,619 --> 00:17:50,219 Speaker 1: this initial iteration. His mask, black mask, completely covers his 335 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:54,350 Speaker 1: entire face in this iteration. Yeah, weird. He travels by horse, 336 00:17:54,450 --> 00:17:58,510 Speaker 1: something that would carry over. And he's a swordsman, you know. 337 00:17:58,650 --> 00:18:01,610 Speaker 1: He does a little bit of whipping here and there, 338 00:18:01,650 --> 00:18:05,489 Speaker 1: but his real calling card is that sword. And even 339 00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:07,470 Speaker 1: though it's not as big of a deal in the book, 340 00:18:07,530 --> 00:18:11,730 Speaker 1: it is in the book that he cuts that Z into– 341 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:13,919 Speaker 1: Maybe somebody's butt if they're bent over and you want 342 00:18:13,940 --> 00:18:17,590 Speaker 1: a little comedy. Or maybe into their clothing or something. 343 00:18:18,490 --> 00:18:21,010 Speaker 2: And if you want a little piece of trivia, Zorro's 344 00:18:21,050 --> 00:18:23,690 Speaker 2: horse was Tornado. Tornado. 345 00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:26,250 Speaker 1: That's right. Put that in your pocket, everybody, because that'll 346 00:18:26,330 --> 00:18:27,659 Speaker 1: come in handy at Bar Trivia one day. 347 00:18:27,670 --> 00:18:31,890 Speaker 2: That's right. Someday. Okay, so I said that the daytime 348 00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:35,420 Speaker 2: thing is starting to get problematic, posing as this lazy 349 00:18:35,540 --> 00:18:39,290 Speaker 2: fop Don Diego. The reason why is that he's played 350 00:18:39,330 --> 00:18:42,129 Speaker 2: it too well. His father is like, you're not going 351 00:18:42,150 --> 00:18:45,570 Speaker 2: to inherit the fortune. I can't give this fortune to you. 352 00:18:45,630 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 2: You're a giant disappointment. You're a planetismal at best. And 353 00:18:51,220 --> 00:18:53,659 Speaker 2: he says, how about this? If you marry and basically 354 00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 2: get off the couch and go do something and marry somebody, 355 00:18:57,869 --> 00:19:00,830 Speaker 2: you can be my heir again. And so he starts 356 00:19:00,869 --> 00:19:04,190 Speaker 2: looking around and he trains his sights on Senorita Lolita, 357 00:19:04,510 --> 00:19:06,909 Speaker 2: who is quite lovely, but she doesn't think very highly 358 00:19:06,950 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 2: of Don Diego. 359 00:19:08,420 --> 00:19:14,340 Speaker 1: No, she doesn't. She, well, he's a very off-putting person 360 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:16,780 Speaker 1: during the daytime, so she should not be attracted to him. 361 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:20,450 Speaker 1: You know who she likes? She likes a couple of people. One, Zorro, 362 00:19:20,609 --> 00:19:24,470 Speaker 1: which is kind of problematic. And then Captain Ramon Ramon. 363 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: who is one of the governor's henchmen, basically. So he's 364 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: in a bit of a pickle here because he's like 365 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:35,510 Speaker 1: this lady senorita that I love actually loves the real me, 366 00:19:35,570 --> 00:19:36,250 Speaker 1: who is Zorro. 367 00:19:36,510 --> 00:19:36,810 Speaker 2: Right. 368 00:19:37,010 --> 00:19:38,889 Speaker 1: And this act that I'm doing during the day is 369 00:19:38,950 --> 00:19:41,510 Speaker 1: really turning her off. And now Captain Ramon is moving 370 00:19:41,570 --> 00:19:41,850 Speaker 1: in on her. 371 00:19:42,390 --> 00:19:45,390 Speaker 2: Right. I don't have the impression that she particularly liked 372 00:19:45,570 --> 00:19:48,650 Speaker 2: Captain Ramon, but I'm guessing he seemed like a good 373 00:19:48,690 --> 00:19:51,260 Speaker 2: alternative to Don Diego. at the time, right? Because he 374 00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 2: had his S together. 375 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:53,400 Speaker 1: I think, yeah. 376 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:58,820 Speaker 2: Even worse, there's now a bounty on Zorro's head and 377 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:02,940 Speaker 2: a bounty hunter's shown up in Los Angeles looking to 378 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:06,660 Speaker 2: basically capture Zorro. So All of a sudden, Don Diego's 379 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 2: life has just really gotten complicated. He's starting to rethink 380 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,390 Speaker 2: this social justice warrior thing. And then Bernardo, I think 381 00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:18,669 Speaker 2: his presence really kind of steals and grounds Zorro because 382 00:20:19,109 --> 00:20:23,470 Speaker 2: he is a he's a Native American. He's indigenous. He's 383 00:20:23,690 --> 00:20:26,830 Speaker 2: deaf and mute. And yes, he's a servant, but he's 384 00:20:26,890 --> 00:20:31,890 Speaker 2: also a trusted sidekick who helps Zorro remain Zorro. 385 00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:35,680 Speaker 1: That's right. And in that book, he does all those 386 00:20:35,740 --> 00:20:39,070 Speaker 1: Zorro things. He robs from the rich, gives to the poor, 387 00:20:39,990 --> 00:20:43,389 Speaker 1: returns land to people who had their land taken from them. He, 388 00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:46,429 Speaker 1: of course, whips the butt of that bounty hunter who 389 00:20:46,470 --> 00:20:48,990 Speaker 1: came to get him. He takes care of Captain Ramon 390 00:20:49,190 --> 00:20:52,150 Speaker 1: in short order. And then at the end, the mask 391 00:20:52,170 --> 00:20:55,070 Speaker 1: comes off, baby. Look who it is, everybody. It's really 392 00:20:55,130 --> 00:20:58,909 Speaker 1: Don Diego. And Lolita is like, perfect. This is all 393 00:20:58,930 --> 00:20:59,490 Speaker 1: I ever wanted. 394 00:20:59,510 --> 00:21:00,109 Speaker 3: Right. 395 00:21:01,090 --> 00:21:04,150 Speaker 2: Too good to be true. And that's it. Ta-da! That's 396 00:21:04,250 --> 00:21:07,410 Speaker 2: the Curse of Capistrano. I don't know if we said 397 00:21:07,430 --> 00:21:12,070 Speaker 2: his foes called him the Curse of Capistrano. Yeah. 398 00:21:12,450 --> 00:21:13,790 Speaker 1: I don't think we did, but that makes sense. 399 00:21:14,190 --> 00:21:18,170 Speaker 2: It does. So that was the first Zorro. And again, 400 00:21:18,210 --> 00:21:21,530 Speaker 2: you said that the Scarlet Pimpernel, which came out 14 401 00:21:21,530 --> 00:21:27,530 Speaker 2: years earlier, probably, you know, definitely, you said, influenced Johnston McCulley, right? 402 00:21:28,210 --> 00:21:28,620 Speaker 3: Yeah. 403 00:21:28,690 --> 00:21:33,189 Speaker 1: He was... Sir Percy Blakeney in the book. He was 404 00:21:33,230 --> 00:21:37,210 Speaker 1: the protagonist. He was an English nobleman during the French 405 00:21:37,300 --> 00:21:39,840 Speaker 1: reign of terror. And he did the same thing. He 406 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,060 Speaker 1: posed as like a spoiled little playboy during the day. 407 00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:45,600 Speaker 1: So no one would suspect that at night he was 408 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:47,500 Speaker 1: saving people from the guillotines, basically. 409 00:21:48,060 --> 00:21:51,580 Speaker 2: Right. And he had his own calling card, a scarlet pimple, pimple, 410 00:21:51,619 --> 00:21:52,360 Speaker 2: no flower. 411 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,500 Speaker 1: Not a pimple flower. No, those are disgusting. 412 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,820 Speaker 2: Not the Scarlet Pumpernickel either, because I remember that was 413 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 2: a parody from the 80s, wasn't it? 414 00:22:02,470 --> 00:22:03,470 Speaker 1: I think so. Yeah. 415 00:22:03,850 --> 00:22:06,449 Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it was a little adult for me. 416 00:22:06,490 --> 00:22:07,890 Speaker 2: I just thought it was silly sounding. 417 00:22:08,330 --> 00:22:12,540 Speaker 1: Yeah. He was also a swordsman. He wore a mask. He, 418 00:22:12,859 --> 00:22:14,740 Speaker 1: like you said, had that calling card and he had 419 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: a secret identity. So, you know, definitely played into his writing, 420 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:20,340 Speaker 1: I think. 421 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:26,350 Speaker 2: So, yeah. Douglas Fairbanks, right, the great American actor, one 422 00:22:26,369 --> 00:22:30,710 Speaker 2: of the first, like, genuine movie stars in history. He 423 00:22:31,010 --> 00:22:34,450 Speaker 2: read The Curse of Capistrano and, like, seriously within a 424 00:22:34,730 --> 00:22:36,490 Speaker 2: very short time was like, I want to buy the 425 00:22:36,550 --> 00:22:38,930 Speaker 2: rights to this and turn it into a movie. He 426 00:22:38,950 --> 00:22:42,220 Speaker 2: wanted to play Zorro. This guy was, like, super athletic. 427 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,379 Speaker 2: I read that he used to just fool around and 428 00:22:46,540 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: climb stairs on his hands. Like that level of athleticism, right? 429 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:52,180 Speaker 1: It's a good trick. 430 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,430 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. I would love to be able to do that. 431 00:22:55,609 --> 00:22:57,470 Speaker 2: I can tell you that I would just knock teeth 432 00:22:57,530 --> 00:23:01,030 Speaker 2: out on step one. But he bought Zorro because he 433 00:23:01,090 --> 00:23:04,189 Speaker 2: wanted to basically play different roles. I did not know this, 434 00:23:04,250 --> 00:23:07,730 Speaker 2: but apparently he started out in comedic roles exclusively. Did 435 00:23:07,750 --> 00:23:08,210 Speaker 2: you know that? 436 00:23:09,470 --> 00:23:09,860 Speaker 1: I did not. 437 00:23:10,340 --> 00:23:13,340 Speaker 2: I didn't either. So this is where, in Zorro, where 438 00:23:13,420 --> 00:23:17,780 Speaker 2: he became the swashbuckling hero that he's known and remembered 439 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 2: as today. 440 00:23:19,180 --> 00:23:22,180 Speaker 1: Yeah, 1920. It was before the talkies at this point. 441 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 1: So it was a silent film with the Mark of Zorro. 442 00:23:25,020 --> 00:23:26,659 Speaker 1: And this is when he switches that hat. He's got 443 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 1: the Spanish Cordovan hat. And you might have been confused 444 00:23:30,220 --> 00:23:32,169 Speaker 1: with those little balls hanging down because you will see 445 00:23:32,190 --> 00:23:33,950 Speaker 1: those a lot of times on the Cordovan hats. 446 00:23:35,090 --> 00:23:37,350 Speaker 2: Okay. All right. Sure. 447 00:23:37,550 --> 00:23:38,510 Speaker 1: Maybe. I don't know. 448 00:23:38,810 --> 00:23:41,729 Speaker 2: Or on the interior of Cheech Marin's car. 449 00:23:42,530 --> 00:23:42,770 Speaker 3: Right. 450 00:23:42,790 --> 00:23:44,540 Speaker 2: I think he had this. 451 00:23:45,619 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: I can't wait till somebody tells us what those things 452 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: are called. 453 00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 2: I can't either. And by the way, if you don't 454 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 2: know what the shoelace things are called, they're called egglets, guys. 455 00:23:54,420 --> 00:23:55,679 Speaker 2: Not you, Chuck. I know you know that. 456 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:57,859 Speaker 1: Well, the only reason I know that is because it's 457 00:23:57,900 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: a very common crossword clue. 458 00:24:00,660 --> 00:24:00,780 Speaker 2: Oh. 459 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,980 Speaker 1: But we don't dare speak of crosswords on the show anymore. 460 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:05,660 Speaker 2: Egglets and Enya. 461 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, egglets and Enya. That'd be a good name for 462 00:24:11,180 --> 00:24:18,540 Speaker 1: a crossword book. Eglitz and Enya, colon. My life is 463 00:24:18,580 --> 00:24:19,680 Speaker 1: a mediocre crossword. 464 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:23,699 Speaker 2: And it's a murder mystery. 465 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: That's right. 466 00:24:25,630 --> 00:24:25,910 Speaker 2: All right. 467 00:24:25,950 --> 00:24:28,230 Speaker 1: So the other changes, he's got that Cordovan hat instead 468 00:24:28,250 --> 00:24:32,629 Speaker 1: of a sombrero. The mask from here forward, because once 469 00:24:32,650 --> 00:24:35,220 Speaker 1: you enshrine it in film and people see it. then 470 00:24:35,540 --> 00:24:36,920 Speaker 1: you're kind of like, all right, I guess that's order 471 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,399 Speaker 1: now for the most part. The mask only covers the 472 00:24:39,420 --> 00:24:43,929 Speaker 1: top half of his face. No more purple cape. But 473 00:24:43,950 --> 00:24:48,410 Speaker 1: he does have a cape, but everything's black, basically. And 474 00:24:48,730 --> 00:24:53,030 Speaker 1: he is like, you know, he's super athletic because Fairbanks is, 475 00:24:53,070 --> 00:24:54,650 Speaker 1: and he wanted to show off and be like, get 476 00:24:54,670 --> 00:24:57,290 Speaker 1: a load of this. Like, show me some stairs and 477 00:24:57,330 --> 00:24:57,969 Speaker 1: watch what I can do. 478 00:24:58,190 --> 00:24:58,380 Speaker 3: Right. 479 00:24:58,890 --> 00:25:01,459 Speaker 2: He would stand on one hand and sword fight with 480 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:02,760 Speaker 2: the other hand upside down. 481 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:04,300 Speaker 1: Did he really? 482 00:25:04,980 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 2: No, I don't think so. But it sounds like he 483 00:25:07,619 --> 00:25:08,680 Speaker 2: probably could have. 484 00:25:09,030 --> 00:25:09,810 Speaker 1: He should have thought of that. 485 00:25:10,810 --> 00:25:15,490 Speaker 2: Another huge, huge change was Don Diego's last name Vega 486 00:25:16,130 --> 00:25:20,700 Speaker 2: was altered almost to where it's unrecognizable. It became De 487 00:25:20,740 --> 00:25:21,260 Speaker 2: La Vega. 488 00:25:23,260 --> 00:25:26,060 Speaker 1: That's right. And the Z that he would cut in 489 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,180 Speaker 1: the book, it seems like it was not an afterthought, 490 00:25:28,220 --> 00:25:29,780 Speaker 1: but just not the biggest deal in the world. 491 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:30,140 Speaker 2: Sure. 492 00:25:30,619 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 1: And in the movies, it really became the thing because 493 00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 1: that's something that plays visually much better than in a book, 494 00:25:37,020 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: I think. 495 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:39,520 Speaker 2: Right. And then in the book, too, they kind of 496 00:25:39,580 --> 00:25:42,710 Speaker 2: tamed it a little bit. In the book, Zorro would... 497 00:25:43,470 --> 00:25:47,150 Speaker 2: put a knee on his foe's chest to hold them down, 498 00:25:47,580 --> 00:25:49,480 Speaker 2: and then hold the tip of his sword like a 499 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 2: pen and really carve that Z in slowly. It was 500 00:25:53,100 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 2: much more graphic and painful, I think, than the one 501 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:57,530 Speaker 2: that Fairbanks came up with. 502 00:25:58,030 --> 00:26:00,110 Speaker 1: Yeah, it got more swashbuckling for sure. 503 00:26:00,650 --> 00:26:06,230 Speaker 2: So it provided a backstory, basically saying that Zorro was European-educated. 504 00:26:06,660 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 2: His father had sent him to Europe to be educated 505 00:26:08,820 --> 00:26:11,979 Speaker 2: in there. He learned sword fighting, but he also learned 506 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 2: to value social equality. And his father was like, Zorro, 507 00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:21,129 Speaker 2: I mean, Don Diego, this place, this Los Angeles is 508 00:26:21,170 --> 00:26:23,429 Speaker 2: starting to get out of hand. It's getting corrupt. Why 509 00:26:23,450 --> 00:26:26,470 Speaker 2: don't you come home and, you know, just be home? 510 00:26:26,730 --> 00:26:28,870 Speaker 2: I'm not calling you home for any kind of heroic 511 00:26:29,030 --> 00:26:31,510 Speaker 2: action or anything. Don't get me wrong. I just like 512 00:26:31,530 --> 00:26:34,270 Speaker 2: you around the family farm. And so he did. He 513 00:26:34,330 --> 00:26:37,910 Speaker 2: came home and he saw this stuff. firsthand in this, again, 514 00:26:37,950 --> 00:26:42,310 Speaker 2: this Douglas, Douglas Fairbanks movie. And he was so moved. 515 00:26:42,350 --> 00:26:44,870 Speaker 2: He's like, I've got to do something about that. So 516 00:26:44,930 --> 00:26:46,770 Speaker 2: he looked around, he found a sash, found a Cape, 517 00:26:46,830 --> 00:26:50,650 Speaker 2: found a mask, got his horse tornado. And he got 518 00:26:50,670 --> 00:26:58,230 Speaker 2: down to business basically becoming the 1850s, Californian, Spanish, Mexican 519 00:26:58,310 --> 00:26:58,830 Speaker 2: Robin hood. 520 00:26:59,510 --> 00:27:01,810 Speaker 1: That's right. Uh, and it was a big hit, uh, 521 00:27:01,910 --> 00:27:05,430 Speaker 1: at the movies. It was, um, Very, very popular. So 522 00:27:05,570 --> 00:27:08,570 Speaker 1: as soon as that movie becomes a big hit, McCulley's like, oh, 523 00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:10,730 Speaker 1: but I got to start writing more of these Zorro books. 524 00:27:11,490 --> 00:27:14,190 Speaker 1: And the first one I'm going to write is I'm 525 00:27:14,210 --> 00:27:17,130 Speaker 1: going to kind of expand The Curse of Capistrano into 526 00:27:17,170 --> 00:27:19,540 Speaker 1: a novel and call it The Mark of Zorro because 527 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: that's what that movie was called. 528 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:21,500 Speaker 2: Right. 529 00:27:21,700 --> 00:27:23,340 Speaker 1: And I need to capitalize on this thing. So he 530 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,460 Speaker 1: did that in 1924, then wrote 60 more Zorro stories 531 00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:29,100 Speaker 1: before he passed away in 1958. 532 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:29,220 Speaker 3: Right. 533 00:27:30,910 --> 00:27:33,230 Speaker 1: And then that Mask of Zorro movie from 1920, the 534 00:27:33,369 --> 00:27:35,369 Speaker 1: silent film was so popular, they remade it as a 535 00:27:35,390 --> 00:27:40,010 Speaker 1: talkie in 1940 with Tyrone Power as Zorro. And then 536 00:27:40,030 --> 00:27:43,190 Speaker 1: the next iteration after that was kind of a while. 537 00:27:43,230 --> 00:27:47,350 Speaker 1: But 1974, when our old buddy Frank Langella comes in 538 00:27:48,170 --> 00:27:50,290 Speaker 1: and a made for TV movie as Zorro. 539 00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:51,830 Speaker 2: Zorro, then Dracula. 540 00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:53,390 Speaker 3: Yeah. 541 00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:54,869 Speaker 1: We talked about him a lot lately. 542 00:27:55,170 --> 00:27:55,430 Speaker 3: Yeah. 543 00:27:55,550 --> 00:27:56,300 Speaker 2: He keeps coming up. 544 00:27:56,770 --> 00:27:59,190 Speaker 1: And as a reminder. I served him as a waiter 545 00:27:59,290 --> 00:28:01,490 Speaker 1: one time at the restaurant in New Jersey where I 546 00:28:01,530 --> 00:28:04,709 Speaker 1: worked called The Store in Basking Ridge, and he ate 547 00:28:04,750 --> 00:28:06,170 Speaker 1: steak for lunch and tipped me well. 548 00:28:07,090 --> 00:28:08,700 Speaker 2: And I like him in the Ninth Gate. 549 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: That's right. So that's our Frank Langella reminder slash update. 550 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,180 Speaker 2: Should we take a break or go on for another 551 00:28:17,220 --> 00:28:17,840 Speaker 2: minute or two? 552 00:28:20,500 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 1: Break. 553 00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:23,129 Speaker 2: All right. We're going to take a break, everybody. And 554 00:28:23,150 --> 00:28:25,090 Speaker 2: when we come back, we're going to knock your socks 555 00:28:25,210 --> 00:28:26,110 Speaker 2: clean off of your feet. 556 00:28:40,620 --> 00:28:57,220 Speaker 3: All right, everybody. 557 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,830 Speaker 1: I hope your socks are still on because Josh loves 558 00:29:00,870 --> 00:29:03,930 Speaker 1: knocking those things off. And if you were sitting there 559 00:29:03,970 --> 00:29:06,870 Speaker 1: listening to our descriptions of the early Zorro and you're like, 560 00:29:06,910 --> 00:29:09,470 Speaker 1: wait a minute, this guy wears a half mask. He 561 00:29:09,670 --> 00:29:12,130 Speaker 1: does his work at night. He has got an underground headquarters. 562 00:29:12,430 --> 00:29:14,890 Speaker 1: He has an assistant kind of butler type. He has 563 00:29:14,930 --> 00:29:17,930 Speaker 1: a secret identity. He's a playboy by day. That sounds 564 00:29:17,970 --> 00:29:23,970 Speaker 1: like Batman when you are completely correct, because apparently Bob 565 00:29:24,010 --> 00:29:27,330 Speaker 1: Kane and Bill Finger saw the mask of Zorro. And 566 00:29:27,370 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 1: a couple of decades later, um, You know, we're influenced 567 00:29:31,660 --> 00:29:34,650 Speaker 1: to write the great comic Batman. 568 00:29:34,670 --> 00:29:40,630 Speaker 2: And apparently, like, it was not lost on Batman. fans 569 00:29:40,650 --> 00:29:43,890 Speaker 2: when Frank Miller brought Batman back in the Dark Knight 570 00:29:43,950 --> 00:29:48,330 Speaker 2: Returns comic series starting in 1986. As part of the 571 00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:52,290 Speaker 2: origin story, when Bruce Wayne's parents are murdered, they're leaving 572 00:29:52,310 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 2: a screening of the Mark of Zorro movie. 573 00:29:56,410 --> 00:29:57,170 Speaker 1: Yeah, there you go. 574 00:29:57,390 --> 00:30:00,210 Speaker 2: Yeah, and then there was another, I think, just a 575 00:30:00,370 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 2: single standalone graphic novel called Joker War in 2020. And 576 00:30:05,470 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 2: Joker is basically trying to get everybody to a screening 577 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,739 Speaker 2: of the Mark of Zorro so he can kill them all. 578 00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:14,660 Speaker 1: Yeah, nice little Easter eggs. 579 00:30:15,260 --> 00:30:18,740 Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty cool. But also just to recognize, like, okay, 580 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,250 Speaker 2: the original Caped Crusader– was Zorro. But it turns out 581 00:30:23,290 --> 00:30:26,310 Speaker 2: the original Caped Crusader is the Scarlet Pimpernel, which is 582 00:30:26,510 --> 00:30:27,510 Speaker 2: mind-blowing to me. 583 00:30:28,530 --> 00:30:29,510 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. 584 00:30:30,750 --> 00:30:34,090 Speaker 2: So Disney came along and they're like, hey, this guy 585 00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:36,060 Speaker 2: seems like something we can make a lot of money 586 00:30:36,140 --> 00:30:39,820 Speaker 2: and turn into like a massive pop culture phenomenon, which 587 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,860 Speaker 2: we think of Zorro today because Disney came in. I mean, 588 00:30:44,100 --> 00:30:47,420 Speaker 2: Zorro was already this enduring character, but also I get 589 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,430 Speaker 2: the impression in the same way, like The Man in 590 00:30:49,470 --> 00:30:52,590 Speaker 2: the Iron Mask was an enduring character, or The Hunchback 591 00:30:52,670 --> 00:30:56,610 Speaker 2: of Notre Dame was an enduring character. They'd come up 592 00:30:56,650 --> 00:30:59,170 Speaker 2: and get remade or whatever, but when Disney comes in, 593 00:31:00,070 --> 00:31:04,570 Speaker 2: they come in and they make it an immovable icon 594 00:31:04,610 --> 00:31:06,950 Speaker 2: from that point on, and that's what they did with Zorro. 595 00:31:07,590 --> 00:31:10,650 Speaker 1: Yeah, in 1957, I mentioned the Frank Langella thing was 596 00:31:10,670 --> 00:31:14,510 Speaker 1: the next film in 1974. Even though it was made 597 00:31:14,550 --> 00:31:16,620 Speaker 1: for television, this was actually a TV show. 598 00:31:16,630 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. 599 00:31:17,460 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 1: In 1957 and it was much more of a Western 600 00:31:20,180 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: type thing. They turned Zorro into El Zorro and he 601 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 1: was a little bit more of a cowboy. I think 602 00:31:26,500 --> 00:31:29,550 Speaker 1: the creators of the show even called it a Southwestern show. 603 00:31:30,030 --> 00:31:32,730 Speaker 1: And it was very, very popular. Guy Williams played El 604 00:31:32,750 --> 00:31:36,850 Speaker 1: Zorro and this time he is fighting, and boy, they 605 00:31:36,910 --> 00:31:40,370 Speaker 1: really went in the opposite direction here. This time he's 606 00:31:40,390 --> 00:31:46,500 Speaker 1: fighting Mexican authorities, not the corrupt governor. And the other 607 00:31:46,540 --> 00:31:50,100 Speaker 1: change they made was Bernardo, his sidekick, is not deaf. 608 00:31:50,940 --> 00:31:53,380 Speaker 1: He pretends to be deaf. He is mute, but he 609 00:31:53,420 --> 00:31:56,739 Speaker 1: pretends to be deaf so he can eavesdrop on conversations 610 00:31:56,790 --> 00:31:57,350 Speaker 1: about Zorro. 611 00:31:57,810 --> 00:32:02,430 Speaker 2: Right. And they really sunk a lot of cash into this. Apparently, 612 00:32:02,450 --> 00:32:08,190 Speaker 2: a half-hour episode cost $ 80, 000 to make. And an hour-long 613 00:32:08,250 --> 00:32:10,450 Speaker 2: episode at the time averaged about $ 13, 000. 614 00:32:10,330 --> 00:32:10,410 Speaker 1: Wow. 615 00:32:12,660 --> 00:32:15,540 Speaker 2: And I think a lot of that cost was sunk 616 00:32:15,660 --> 00:32:18,650 Speaker 2: into the permanent set that they built for Zorro, which 617 00:32:18,750 --> 00:32:22,750 Speaker 2: cost them about a half a million dollars in 1957 dollars. 618 00:32:22,890 --> 00:32:23,130 Speaker 3: Right. 619 00:32:23,210 --> 00:32:26,430 Speaker 2: So they really pulled out all the stops. And this 620 00:32:26,470 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 2: was only on for two years, 1950, well, three, 1957, 621 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 2: eight and nine. And still they got almost 80 episodes 622 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:39,620 Speaker 2: out of this vehicle, 80 episodes over three years. Can 623 00:32:39,660 --> 00:32:42,560 Speaker 2: you imagine being a TV actor back then? They just 624 00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:43,580 Speaker 2: ran you ragged. 625 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a lot of work. I just did 626 00:32:46,540 --> 00:32:48,780 Speaker 1: the inflation for that. That's close to a million bucks 627 00:32:48,820 --> 00:32:49,980 Speaker 1: an episode back then. 628 00:32:50,260 --> 00:32:50,480 Speaker 2: Wow. 629 00:32:50,740 --> 00:32:52,980 Speaker 1: In today dollars. So and again, that's just for a 630 00:32:53,020 --> 00:32:55,740 Speaker 1: half hour. So, yeah, that was a big, big production. 631 00:32:56,700 --> 00:32:59,340 Speaker 1: And they had a dispute, which is why it got pulled, 632 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,500 Speaker 1: because it was a huge, huge hit. It was canceled 633 00:33:02,740 --> 00:33:06,100 Speaker 1: in 1959 because I think ABC and Disney had a 634 00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:09,420 Speaker 1: little row about who owned the rights to Zorro. 635 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. And so that was it. But like you said, 636 00:33:13,100 --> 00:33:15,980 Speaker 2: it made such a huge mark, I guess, a Z, 637 00:33:16,260 --> 00:33:20,300 Speaker 2: if you will, that it just basically laid the groundwork 638 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 2: for Zorro to keep coming up and coming up for 639 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:27,330 Speaker 2: the rest of the century, including that movie, which you 640 00:33:27,570 --> 00:33:29,750 Speaker 2: said earlier, if I'm not mistaken, was your favorite movie 641 00:33:29,770 --> 00:33:33,890 Speaker 2: of all time, The Mark of Zorro. There was also 642 00:33:33,910 --> 00:33:36,010 Speaker 2: a Saturday morning cartoon. Did you know that? It was 643 00:33:36,210 --> 00:33:38,330 Speaker 2: in 1981, so it would have been in your wheelhouse, 644 00:33:38,430 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 2: The New Adventures of Zorro. Oh, yeah. 645 00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:43,820 Speaker 1: That probably had something to do with me going as Sorawa. 646 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 3: Yeah. 647 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,770 Speaker 1: We had a Halloween trunk in our house. Did you 648 00:33:48,790 --> 00:33:49,270 Speaker 1: have one of those? 649 00:33:49,890 --> 00:33:50,170 Speaker 2: No. 650 00:33:50,750 --> 00:33:51,990 Speaker 1: With, like, costume stuff? 651 00:33:52,270 --> 00:33:52,630 Speaker 2: No. 652 00:33:53,810 --> 00:33:56,550 Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was kind of common. In fact, 653 00:33:56,590 --> 00:33:59,670 Speaker 1: I'd like to hear from listeners. We had a literal 654 00:33:59,750 --> 00:34:01,670 Speaker 1: trunk in our house that just had a bunch of 655 00:34:01,750 --> 00:34:04,780 Speaker 1: stuff in it where every year my mom would be like, well, 656 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:07,140 Speaker 1: you know, there's this, there's this hat. I could put 657 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:08,660 Speaker 1: it together with this. You could be a pirate. 658 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:08,899 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. 659 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 1: We got a little parrot with an elastic band that 660 00:34:11,500 --> 00:34:12,340 Speaker 1: can go on your shoulder. 661 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:13,010 Speaker 3: Wow. 662 00:34:13,050 --> 00:34:15,140 Speaker 1: So we just saved all that stuff. And now we 663 00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:18,790 Speaker 1: have our own Halloween trunk on our house. And we 664 00:34:19,190 --> 00:34:20,410 Speaker 1: utilize it in the same way. It's kind of a 665 00:34:20,650 --> 00:34:22,489 Speaker 1: nice little tradition. But anyway, we had one of those 666 00:34:22,650 --> 00:34:24,890 Speaker 1: Zorro hats. And I think that also had something to 667 00:34:24,910 --> 00:34:27,529 Speaker 1: do with, I guess my mom would find stuff at 668 00:34:27,570 --> 00:34:29,950 Speaker 1: like garage sales and be like, oh, this looks like 669 00:34:29,989 --> 00:34:31,630 Speaker 1: it could be a future costume thing and throw it 670 00:34:31,650 --> 00:34:32,009 Speaker 1: in the trunk. 671 00:34:32,250 --> 00:34:34,190 Speaker 2: Man, that's so cool. I wish I would have had 672 00:34:34,290 --> 00:34:37,370 Speaker 2: one of those. We had an extension cord that we 673 00:34:37,450 --> 00:34:38,410 Speaker 2: use as a jump rope. 674 00:34:38,930 --> 00:34:39,109 Speaker 3: Right. 675 00:34:40,980 --> 00:34:42,739 Speaker 2: And it made a pretty good whip, too, once in 676 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,480 Speaker 2: a while. But for the most part, it was a 677 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:44,939 Speaker 2: jump rope. 678 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 1: So, yeah, it was a cartoon. I definitely remember that. 679 00:34:48,940 --> 00:34:53,260 Speaker 1: But it was 1998 was the Antonio Banderas version. Again, 680 00:34:53,340 --> 00:34:55,759 Speaker 1: a movie I saw in the theater that I remember 681 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: as being like a pretty good movie for what it was. 682 00:34:58,860 --> 00:35:01,500 Speaker 1: And this was a big switch because Zorro up until 683 00:35:01,540 --> 00:35:08,080 Speaker 1: that point on film had always been played by Caucasian-American actors. And, well, 684 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,780 Speaker 1: I guess in this case, that's actually– Half true because 685 00:35:12,380 --> 00:35:15,260 Speaker 1: the elder Zorro in this movie is played by Don 686 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,049 Speaker 1: Diego is played by Anthony Hopkins. So Caucasian British actor, 687 00:35:19,090 --> 00:35:22,550 Speaker 1: I guess. But he passes the baton to his son, 688 00:35:24,330 --> 00:35:27,710 Speaker 1: Alejandro Murrieta. And if you remember that name, you're like, 689 00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:30,650 Speaker 1: wait a minute. Is that supposed to be Joaquin Murrieta? No, 690 00:35:30,690 --> 00:35:33,590 Speaker 1: it's not. But that is his brother. And his brother 691 00:35:33,690 --> 00:35:36,010 Speaker 1: Joaquin's head is in a pickle jar in the movie. 692 00:35:36,430 --> 00:35:38,090 Speaker 2: So is it pretty cool looking? 693 00:35:39,130 --> 00:35:41,850 Speaker 1: I don't remember. I would like to see this, actually. 694 00:35:41,890 --> 00:35:43,569 Speaker 1: In fact, this might be a fun family movie. 695 00:35:44,090 --> 00:35:47,950 Speaker 2: Speaking of a good movie for what it was, we 696 00:35:47,989 --> 00:35:53,070 Speaker 2: talked about The Mummy with Tom Cruise in the Universal 697 00:35:53,110 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 2: Monsters episode. Did you go back and see it? Not yet. 698 00:35:56,739 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 2: I watched it, and I remember we were talking about 699 00:35:59,390 --> 00:36:01,770 Speaker 2: how everybody was like, it sucks so bad that it 700 00:36:01,830 --> 00:36:04,610 Speaker 2: ruined their whole plans for creating the Dark Universe. 701 00:36:05,090 --> 00:36:06,010 Speaker 1: Yeah. 702 00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:08,410 Speaker 2: I really don't know what people were talking about. It 703 00:36:08,450 --> 00:36:12,090 Speaker 2: was a fun movie that was really well made. It 704 00:36:12,130 --> 00:36:14,180 Speaker 2: didn't get dull. There was no point where it was 705 00:36:14,219 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 2: a slog. And all the little things, like knowing that 706 00:36:17,060 --> 00:36:21,080 Speaker 2: they were planning a Dark Universe franchise, you can see 707 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:23,239 Speaker 2: all the little things they were laying the groundwork for. 708 00:36:23,260 --> 00:36:26,580 Speaker 2: And it's really sad that they didn't. They weren't able 709 00:36:26,620 --> 00:36:29,660 Speaker 2: to pursue that because it would have been kind of cool, 710 00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:30,020 Speaker 2: I think. 711 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,620 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a bummer. I will watch that. 712 00:36:32,820 --> 00:36:35,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you'll like it. Just go into it 713 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:38,470 Speaker 2: like it's a blockbuster. It's not high art or anything 714 00:36:38,510 --> 00:36:39,950 Speaker 2: like that, you know, as it's supposed to be. 715 00:36:40,530 --> 00:36:42,149 Speaker 1: Yeah, I like Tom Cruise. 716 00:36:42,790 --> 00:36:43,629 Speaker 2: He does great in this. 717 00:36:44,210 --> 00:36:46,009 Speaker 1: Yeah, I like him in movies. Let's just say that. 718 00:36:46,530 --> 00:36:52,339 Speaker 2: Okay. So you also like Antonio Banderas in movies specifically. 719 00:36:52,969 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 2: Zorro movies. And you were treated seven years after that, 720 00:36:57,860 --> 00:37:00,100 Speaker 2: I guess, epiphany you had when you saw the first 721 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,300 Speaker 2: Mark of Zorro in 1998, when they made a follow-up 722 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 2: of The Legend of Zorro, which I know for a 723 00:37:06,140 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 2: fact you've said is your actual favorite movie. 724 00:37:09,219 --> 00:37:12,980 Speaker 1: You know, I don't actually remember seeing this. I probably did, 725 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 1: but I don't know for sure because apparently he's married 726 00:37:18,060 --> 00:37:22,320 Speaker 1: in this one. And has children, which complicates the story. 727 00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:24,610 Speaker 1: And that doesn't ring familiar, so I may not have 728 00:37:24,630 --> 00:37:25,130 Speaker 1: seen this one. 729 00:37:25,510 --> 00:37:30,089 Speaker 2: It's like Mr. Mom meets Zorro. Right. He has to, like, 730 00:37:30,130 --> 00:37:33,430 Speaker 2: sword fight with somebody while he has the baby on 731 00:37:33,489 --> 00:37:34,710 Speaker 2: his arm, his other arm. 732 00:37:36,370 --> 00:37:36,730 Speaker 1: Probably. 733 00:37:37,150 --> 00:37:39,479 Speaker 2: I could actually see that now. As I was saying 734 00:37:39,540 --> 00:37:40,700 Speaker 2: it out loud, I'm like, this was 2005. 735 00:37:40,700 --> 00:37:43,310 Speaker 1: Got a little onesie with a Z on it. 736 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:44,779 Speaker 2: Right. 737 00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:46,650 Speaker 3: So.... 738 00:37:47,070 --> 00:37:50,610 Speaker 2: It turns out that Zorro is actually considered somewhat controversial. 739 00:37:50,770 --> 00:37:52,250 Speaker 2: And it makes kind of sense if you stop and 740 00:37:52,270 --> 00:37:55,770 Speaker 2: think about some of the things that we've talked about. Ultimately, 741 00:37:55,830 --> 00:37:59,450 Speaker 2: it's that there like his story was manipulated for different 742 00:37:59,570 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 2: audiences over the ages. And to make it palatable, actual 743 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,180 Speaker 2: history in the actual like what the banditos who Zorro 744 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,819 Speaker 2: is based on were actually doing and why has been 745 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,399 Speaker 2: just brushed under the rug. And instead it's Zorro again. 746 00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:18,780 Speaker 2: And he's fighting everybody except the Americans. And in fact, 747 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:25,170 Speaker 2: apparently in the 2005 Legend of Zorro, when California becomes 748 00:38:25,290 --> 00:38:30,090 Speaker 2: a United States state, the Mexican residents all cheer and 749 00:38:30,130 --> 00:38:33,110 Speaker 2: are happy about it. And that is the opposite of 750 00:38:33,170 --> 00:38:33,710 Speaker 2: what happened. 751 00:38:33,730 --> 00:38:34,630 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact. 752 00:38:35,410 --> 00:38:35,670 Speaker 3: Yeah. 753 00:38:36,190 --> 00:38:38,479 Speaker 1: Yeah. That's what movies do a lot of times. They'll 754 00:38:38,500 --> 00:38:42,339 Speaker 1: just kind of whitewash things and paint a rosy picture 755 00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:44,460 Speaker 1: for an audience. And that's definitely what happened in this case. 756 00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:45,450 Speaker 3: Right. 757 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,250 Speaker 2: And I was like, okay, well, does that mean that 758 00:38:47,290 --> 00:38:50,910 Speaker 2: Zorro is taken differently in other countries? So I found 759 00:38:51,630 --> 00:38:57,230 Speaker 2: there was a 1974 Zorro movie produced and shown in Mexico. 760 00:38:58,170 --> 00:39:03,319 Speaker 2: And nope, he's fighting like I think the local military, 761 00:39:03,460 --> 00:39:07,740 Speaker 2: Mexican military at the time. So no, it wasn't altered 762 00:39:07,860 --> 00:39:09,759 Speaker 2: in that sense, which I was a little surprised by. 763 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,470 Speaker 1: Oh, that's interesting. Uh, Zorro has been around, like there 764 00:39:13,489 --> 00:39:17,259 Speaker 1: have been a lot of iterations since the Antonio Banderas version. Uh, 765 00:39:19,420 --> 00:39:20,700 Speaker 1: one thing that had to do with that is it 766 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,710 Speaker 1: entered public domain in 1995. So there's been kids books 767 00:39:25,890 --> 00:39:30,190 Speaker 1: and action figures. There's actually been ballets and video games, 768 00:39:30,330 --> 00:39:33,350 Speaker 1: comic books, like all sorts of people capitalizing on the 769 00:39:33,390 --> 00:39:39,430 Speaker 1: Zorro thing. And apparently between 45 and 60 movies all 770 00:39:39,469 --> 00:39:40,930 Speaker 1: over the world about Zorro. 771 00:39:41,580 --> 00:39:42,739 Speaker 2: That's impressive. 772 00:39:43,060 --> 00:39:44,580 Speaker 1: James Bond can't even touch those numbers. 773 00:39:45,020 --> 00:39:48,460 Speaker 2: Who was it? Was it Dracula that's the most portrayed? 774 00:39:49,100 --> 00:39:52,160 Speaker 2: I think character. We've talked about it before. I think 775 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:56,739 Speaker 2: it's Dracula. And it's not that many ahead of that, 776 00:39:56,780 --> 00:39:59,399 Speaker 2: if I remember correctly. So, yeah, Zorro's up there. 777 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:03,299 Speaker 1: Well, there's a new one. Reading all this, I was like, oh, man, 778 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: they should do a new Zorro movie because it's kind 779 00:40:05,140 --> 00:40:08,210 Speaker 1: of been long enough now. And they're ready. We're ready 780 00:40:08,250 --> 00:40:11,270 Speaker 1: for that new sort of big time Hollywood version. And 781 00:40:11,370 --> 00:40:13,130 Speaker 1: I don't know if that's coming, but there is a 782 00:40:13,150 --> 00:40:15,810 Speaker 1: movie coming out this year. I think it's getting a 783 00:40:15,850 --> 00:40:19,230 Speaker 1: streaming release. It may be a show. I couldn't quite tell, 784 00:40:19,290 --> 00:40:24,410 Speaker 1: but it's a French-speaking film. So Zorro is French in 785 00:40:24,430 --> 00:40:26,450 Speaker 1: this movie, which was a little weird, and it seems 786 00:40:26,469 --> 00:40:28,190 Speaker 1: like it really leans into the comedy. 787 00:40:28,670 --> 00:40:29,090 Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. 788 00:40:29,590 --> 00:40:31,890 Speaker 1: And Zorro's always had a lot of little comic touches, 789 00:40:31,930 --> 00:40:34,739 Speaker 1: but this one seems pretty heavily comic. 790 00:40:34,969 --> 00:40:37,920 Speaker 2: Gotcha. Kind of like Zorro the Gayblade level? 791 00:40:38,580 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 1: Nah, but different. 792 00:40:40,180 --> 00:40:43,359 Speaker 2: Okay. There's another, a lot of people have been calling 793 00:40:43,380 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 2: for Zorro to be cast as a woman. And there's 794 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,620 Speaker 2: something that's still in development. CW and NBC supposedly are 795 00:40:51,660 --> 00:40:55,660 Speaker 2: attached to it. And I saw that's not dead. Robert 796 00:40:55,710 --> 00:40:58,370 Speaker 2: Rodriguez was going to produce and direct it. And I 797 00:40:58,469 --> 00:41:01,469 Speaker 2: don't know if he still is, but there's possibly that. 798 00:41:01,830 --> 00:41:04,110 Speaker 2: But there's already been Zorro as a woman before. If 799 00:41:04,150 --> 00:41:06,969 Speaker 2: you were in Canada between the years of 2000 and 2001, 800 00:41:06,950 --> 00:41:11,700 Speaker 2: and you had your TV tuned, into the right channel 801 00:41:11,739 --> 00:41:13,759 Speaker 2: at the right time, you could have seen Queen of 802 00:41:13,800 --> 00:41:17,000 Speaker 2: the Swords, which is a straight up woman Zorro show. 803 00:41:17,260 --> 00:41:18,660 Speaker 2: That was supposedly pretty good. 804 00:41:19,989 --> 00:41:21,989 Speaker 1: All right. I haven't heard of that. That sounds pretty good. 805 00:41:23,130 --> 00:41:25,850 Speaker 1: There are certainly like Jenna Ortega. I mean, she's a 806 00:41:25,870 --> 00:41:28,310 Speaker 1: little young, but if you kind of rebooted the character 807 00:41:28,370 --> 00:41:30,990 Speaker 1: as a young woman, Jenna Ortega would be great. 808 00:41:31,780 --> 00:41:33,700 Speaker 2: For sure. That's a great idea, Chuck. 809 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,580 Speaker 1: If she can play Wednesday Addams, she could play Zorro. Yeah. 810 00:41:37,060 --> 00:41:41,469 Speaker 2: Let's get to it, Jenna Ortega. Oh, man, there's no 811 00:41:41,510 --> 00:41:43,899 Speaker 2: better way to end this episode than on that. So 812 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:46,060 Speaker 2: I say, Chuck, it's time for Listener Mail. 813 00:41:49,380 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: This one was really neat. Occasionally we do an episode 814 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:55,629 Speaker 1: where someone that's actually either tangentially tied or directly tied 815 00:41:55,670 --> 00:41:57,650 Speaker 1: to the person or the story writes in, and we 816 00:41:57,690 --> 00:41:58,089 Speaker 1: love those. 817 00:41:58,110 --> 00:41:58,590 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. 818 00:41:59,130 --> 00:42:02,270 Speaker 1: And in this case, we got an email from someone 819 00:42:02,290 --> 00:42:06,860 Speaker 1: named Lizzie Post about the Emily Post episode. And that 820 00:42:06,890 --> 00:42:09,920 Speaker 1: is not a coincidence, everybody. She is co-president of the 821 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,120 Speaker 1: Emily Post Institute and the great, great granddaughter of the 822 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 1: Emily Post. And she says this, guys, we were delighted 823 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,700 Speaker 1: by your recent episode on Emily. It melted our hearts 824 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: to hear Josh and Chuck embrace Emily, what she stood 825 00:42:22,060 --> 00:42:24,339 Speaker 1: for and how she went about life. It was just 826 00:42:24,450 --> 00:42:27,310 Speaker 1: beyond fantastic. And we are so grateful to you all 827 00:42:27,890 --> 00:42:30,050 Speaker 1: at the Stuff You Should Know podcast for putting together 828 00:42:30,090 --> 00:42:33,750 Speaker 1: this episode so well. Sincerely, Lizzie. And that just made 829 00:42:34,030 --> 00:42:35,130 Speaker 1: our day, Lizzie. 830 00:42:35,330 --> 00:42:37,750 Speaker 2: Yeah, that was amazing when I saw that come in. 831 00:42:37,870 --> 00:42:41,250 Speaker 2: I just immediately forwarded it to you with the smiley emoticon, 832 00:42:41,310 --> 00:42:42,320 Speaker 2: if I'm not mistaken. 833 00:42:42,969 --> 00:42:45,560 Speaker 1: That's right. And I wrote Lizzie back. I think she 834 00:42:45,620 --> 00:42:48,339 Speaker 1: wanted to send us something, but I'm going to see 835 00:42:48,420 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: if Livia will accept that gift because Livia did such 836 00:42:51,219 --> 00:42:52,600 Speaker 1: a good job with it. I think it should go 837 00:42:52,620 --> 00:42:52,799 Speaker 1: to her. 838 00:42:53,380 --> 00:42:56,739 Speaker 2: I agree. I agree, Chuck. That was very generous and 839 00:42:56,780 --> 00:42:57,700 Speaker 2: magnanimous of you. 840 00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:59,950 Speaker 1: Well, we'll see. I haven't done it yet. 841 00:43:01,170 --> 00:43:04,370 Speaker 2: Well, thanks a lot, Lizzie. We really appreciated that email. 842 00:43:04,410 --> 00:43:06,290 Speaker 2: That was really great to hear, and we're glad we 843 00:43:06,310 --> 00:43:09,790 Speaker 2: warmed your hearts. And if we've ever warmed your hearts, 844 00:43:09,930 --> 00:43:12,469 Speaker 2: other listeners out there, and you want to let us 845 00:43:12,510 --> 00:43:14,740 Speaker 2: know about it, you can send us an email, too. 846 00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:21,640 Speaker 2: Send it off to stuffpodcasts at iheartradio.com. 847 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,940 Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 848 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,819 Speaker 1: more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. 849 00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:30,990 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.