1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 2: Omar and Dino is huddled over a smartphone in a 3 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:22,479 Speaker 2: lush forest in Honduras's mountainous euroregion. He's confirming details about 4 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 2: the boundaries of the small plot where he grows coffee beans. 5 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: So do. 6 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 2: It's something and Dino has never done before, mapping his farm. 7 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 2: This exercise won't help Endino's harvest, but it's become a 8 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: crucial part of his work because of regulations that were 9 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: passed thousands of miles away. 10 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:50,160 Speaker 3: We have to reduce the use consumption footprint on land 11 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 3: and forest around the world. 12 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 2: That's President of the European Commission Ursula vonderlyon in twenty 13 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 2: twenty one, pledging to introduce new rules to protect global forces. 14 00:01:00,680 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 3: European voters and consumers no longer want to buy products 15 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,320 Speaker 3: that are responsible for deforestation or forest degradation. 16 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: The rules she's talking about ended up being called the 17 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 2: European Union Deforestation Regulation. It tackles deforestation risks in the 18 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 2: supply chain and goes into effect later this year. 19 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: Bear with me. 20 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 2: I know there are few things that can make a 21 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 2: brain shut down faster than the words new EU regulations. 22 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 2: But these new rules are keeping people all over the 23 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 2: world up at night. 24 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 1: You know, we're talking about anxiety, fear, panic, hope that 25 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 1: maybe something will be postponed, something will be tweaked. 26 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Agneshka Desausa says that's because these rules have reached. 27 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: They reach into the mountains of Honduras and the forests 28 00:01:54,800 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: of Indonesia. They reach into your coffee cut, your lipstick tube, 29 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: and even the tires on your car. 30 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: It's a hotly discussed topic. It's something that many traders, producers, 31 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:15,639 Speaker 1: food producers are really really worrying about and are watching. 32 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: And yet you know, it's something that I think most 33 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,400 Speaker 1: of the people are not even aware of. 34 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 2: Today on the show, how a little known piece of 35 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 2: regulation intended to save the world's forests could have huge, 36 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 2: unintended consequences for billions of dollars in trade. This is 37 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: the big take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. 38 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: I'm Agnetka de Souza, senior food and agricultural reporter based 39 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: in London, and I'm also Bloomberg's Global Foods. 40 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:55,399 Speaker 2: Are That is a fabulous title. That's the best title 41 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: I've heard a Bloomberg so far. 42 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: It's a great job. 43 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 2: Agneshka has been looking into this new law, known as 44 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,239 Speaker 2: the EUDR since it was passed last year. 45 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 1: I think this is a fascinating example of a green 46 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: policy and how it's rolled out works in practice. What 47 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: are the shortcomings, what are the challenges, what are the 48 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: economic tradeoffs? 49 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 2: The regulation started off with one simple goal, to make 50 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 2: sure the EU is doing its best to stop deforestation. 51 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 2: In just the last thirty years, the world lost woodlands 52 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: equivalent to an area larger than the European Union itself. 53 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: A lot of that forest was cleared to make way 54 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 2: for farms or cattle grazing land. 55 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: Essentially, the key purpose of this legislation is to help 56 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: REGs or hold deforestation around the world. It is a 57 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: big issue, one of the greatest environmental challenges the world faces, 58 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: and it's still pretty behind where it should be in 59 00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: terms of tackling it. 60 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 2: The EUDR mandates that all of the companies and cont 61 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: trees that sell products to the EU must prove those 62 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 2: products did not come from land that was deforested after 63 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: twenty twenty, whether legally or illegally. The new regulations target 64 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: some of the products that have historically been some of 65 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: the worst offenders. 66 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: Those seven commodities are soy, cattle, palm oil, rubber wood, 67 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:30,679 Speaker 1: coffee and cocoa, and any related product so chocolate, furniture, tires. 68 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: It's a pretty long list. It could be books, wow, newspapers, plywood. 69 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: Pretty much anything you might touch on a given day 70 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 2: that's right. To prove these products don't come from recently 71 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: deforested land, companies, producers and farmers have to submit paperwork 72 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:53,600 Speaker 2: that traces every raw material back to where it came from. 73 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: So that goes all the way to farm They need 74 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: to prepare the geofencing of arms, for example, so they 75 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: have to draw those show where exactly every cocoa, bean 76 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: or carcass of beef came from. It has to be 77 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 1: fully traced doing that. 78 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 2: Meticulous tracing can involve everything from visits from field agents 79 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:20,160 Speaker 2: like we heard earlier, to reports from neighbors, to mapping 80 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: previously unmapped land. The responsibility forgetting this proof mostly rests 81 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: with the companies themselves. 82 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 1: And that includes pretty much like all the household names. 83 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: Think about food giants like Nestle, Uniliver, chocolate makers, cosmetics 84 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: producers that need palm oil for the lipsticks. It is 85 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,599 Speaker 1: a pretty wide range of companies. 86 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 2: The law also touches smaller companies, which will have a 87 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 2: bit longer to comply with the regulations. All told, more 88 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 2: than fifty five countries will be affected, along with millions 89 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: of farmers and producers all across the globe. 90 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: We've calculated that the EUDR will tackle at least one 91 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 1: hundred and ten billion dollars in trade. 92 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 2: And can you talk more about why this was such 93 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: a priority for the EU. 94 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: Deforestation is a major source of global greenhouse gas emissions, 95 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: of biodiversity laws. It is a very, very big problem. 96 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: The European Union is one of the biggest marketplaces in 97 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: the world and it does import huge amounts of those commodities. 98 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: You know, it is a huge consumer of coffee and 99 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:39,080 Speaker 1: for many years the European Union faced criticism that very 100 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: much it's demand and it's appetite for those goods fuel 101 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: deforestation elsewhere. 102 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 2: And what happens if companies don't comply with these new 103 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: regulations that are meant to curb deforestation. 104 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 1: If they don't comply, they cannot shift those goods to 105 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: the EU. If they are found in breach of the regulations, 106 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,800 Speaker 1: they face have to finds, and that could include being 107 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: banned or suspended from doing business dirt, being suspended from 108 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: public procurement, their cargo being confiscated. 109 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 2: So not complying means fines, loss of business, and pain 110 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: for companies, but complying could mean layers of regulation, red tape, 111 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: and lots of paperwork. This is hard on farmers and businesses, 112 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 2: but consumers will see the effect of these rules as well. 113 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: That is, buyers of all that coffee, chocolate, lipstick, books, 114 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 2: and car tires. Companies have argued that whatever way you 115 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 2: slice it, the EUDR will increase the cost of production, 116 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: slow down supply chains, and possibly lead to shortages, something 117 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: neither companies nor consumers want. 118 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: Right now, you know the coco market, right now, there's 119 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: not enough coco. There's a coco shortage, which naturally means 120 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: higher prices. Traders have worn that sustainability does cost, and 121 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: European consumers will bear that cost eventually. 122 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 2: Yea, But chocolate prices aren't the only thing at stake here. 123 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: Coming up after the break, what these new rules could 124 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: do to hundreds of thousands of farmers who desperately rely 125 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: on these crops to survive. Mapping the world is no 126 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: easy task. Mapping one farm on a shoe string budget 127 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 2: in a remote area is particularly tricky. Bloomberg Global Foods 128 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 2: are Agneshka de Sauza says, that's why these new European 129 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 2: Union rules could be very difficult for smaller farmers. That is, 130 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 2: if they even know they exist. 131 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: Many farmers are not even aware of this regulation. And 132 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: the people who have been really leading the efforts so 133 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,360 Speaker 1: that we see our copperatives, so there are many members 134 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: within those farmer cooperatives that go out there help farmers 135 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:01,359 Speaker 1: try to do all the mapping in touch with the buyers. 136 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: And also we've seen big companies doing a lot of 137 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: those efforts as well. 138 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 2: There are smartphone apps and other tools to help farmers 139 00:09:08,480 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 2: submit land titles, boundaries and coordinates of their farms, but 140 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 2: many of the farmers in the most remote locations don't 141 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 2: even have cell phone service. 142 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 1: It's something that requires training and very often farmers may 143 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: not have that training. So this is where companies, copper 144 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: chafes and even governments can come in and lead those efforts. 145 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 2: Some businesses have spotted an opportunity here, like the Dutch 146 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 2: company Meridia. It's seen its business double since the EUDR 147 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 2: was announced in twenty twenty one. It's one contracts from 148 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 2: companies like Unilever and Cargill who are scrambling to source 149 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: all of the materials in all of the thousands of 150 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 2: products they sell to the EU. 151 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: They're a mapping company, but primarily there are data verification company. 152 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: They call themselves data doctors, and their job is to 153 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 1: get the list of farms from their clients and verify 154 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,640 Speaker 1: them and make sure that they're actually solid, that they 155 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: make sense, that there are no flows, because at the 156 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: end of the day, it actually mapping something. Mapping a 157 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: farm is an effort and it does take work, and 158 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: you cannot be sloppy. 159 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 2: Meridia and other data companies like it send teams of 160 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 2: people from farm to farm to help trace their boundaries. 161 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: They have people on the ground. They start early. They 162 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,520 Speaker 1: go to a village, They find out where are the farmers, 163 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: what they grow could They take them to the land. 164 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: They will hold a long gpis stick that will receive 165 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: the satellite signal. They will have the tablet. They will 166 00:10:38,920 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: ask a lot of questions to a farmer and then 167 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:45,080 Speaker 1: the farmers will take them around the land and show 168 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,959 Speaker 1: them where exactly the farm boundaries are. Now you also 169 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: have to verify it with the neighbors, right, You have 170 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 1: to ask the neighbors are this boundaries actually correct or 171 00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: just he's trying to get his farm bigger than it 172 00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: actually is. So there's a lot of questions that people 173 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: on the ground really need to ask. 174 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,839 Speaker 2: For some countries, figuring out how to answer all these questions, 175 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 2: how do identify the origins of every coffee bean and 176 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 2: every rubber tree by the end of the year is 177 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 2: causing a lot of concern. 178 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 1: You know. One of the examples we are citing is Honduras. 179 00:11:20,520 --> 00:11:23,400 Speaker 1: It's a small country, it doesn't have that many farmers. 180 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: You could argue, Okay, it doesn't really matter, you know, 181 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 1: on the grand scheme of things. But for Honduras it's 182 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: a big deal. As my colleagues calculated, the exposure of 183 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 1: Honduran economy to the EUDR is something like three point 184 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: five percent of the GDP. 185 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 2: Many of the countries that have a high number of 186 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 2: smaller farmers have come together to lobby the EU to 187 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,719 Speaker 2: lighten up a little or at least to give them 188 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 2: extra time or guidance in complying with the new rules. 189 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: You know, commodities have complex supply chains. There's a lot 190 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: of questions how things will get done, who's going to 191 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: police it, who's going to handle the cargo when it 192 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: arrives at the port, what does that mean? And that 193 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: is a source of a lot of anxiety for a 194 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:09,320 Speaker 1: lot of companies, for a lot of countries, because they 195 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 1: still do not understand all the details of it, and 196 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: so they have been asking for delays. I mean recently 197 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: we even had the Agriculture Ministry in Australia asking for 198 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,839 Speaker 1: delay until the requirements of the EUDR are well understood. 199 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 1: And this is one thing that where industry or countries 200 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: I could say, I'm pretty united as to their concerns 201 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: whether they have enough time to adjust to the new law. 202 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 2: Some countries are going even further and looking for other 203 00:12:43,160 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 2: places to sell their goods outside of the EU, which 204 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 2: could undermine efforts to stop deforestation. For example, Ethiopia's coffee 205 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 2: farmers have started exploring markets in Saudi Arabia, China and Russia. 206 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 1: Nobody we've spoken to denies that the forestation is problem 207 00:13:00,559 --> 00:13:04,360 Speaker 1: and it needs to be tackled. But I think one 208 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: key issue that those countries and companies have is the 209 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: implementation of the regulations, so in a way, the devil 210 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: is in the implementation of it. 211 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 2: Agniashka says. One country has even accused the EU of 212 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 2: regulatory imperialism. 213 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:27,160 Speaker 1: Indonesia, just like several other countries, wrote a letter to 214 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: the new expressing concern it's in this industry minister brandeded 215 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,359 Speaker 1: a form of regulator imperialism. You know, the EU imposing 216 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: their way of thinking, their requirements, their regulations onto the 217 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: rest of the world. It's a pretty sensitive topic. 218 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 2: Still. Environmental advocates argue curbing deforestation just can't wait. European 219 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: regulators are trying to balance the sense of urgency against 220 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:01,200 Speaker 2: the economic concerns of farmers and small businesses. To start, 221 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,280 Speaker 2: they've set aside a fund of seventy six million dollars 222 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:08,839 Speaker 2: to help support small producers in complying with regulations. But ultimately, 223 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 2: the law is the law. EU member states voted on it, 224 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 2: and now everyone just has to figure out how to 225 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 2: make it work best. 226 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 1: Rolling out green policies does require trade off. It is challenging, 227 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: it does require thoughts. There could be unintended consequences stemming 228 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: from it, but it's something that countries are going through 229 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: and could learn from their mistakes. 230 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: Agnoshka says that her role as global Foods are means 231 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 2: she's seen a lot of these regulations over the years 232 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 2: to make supply chains greener or more transparent, and she's 233 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 2: come away with one big lesson. 234 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: You know, it's something that it is a big challenge, 235 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: but it's not a reason not to do it. It's 236 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: just the question of how it gets done and how 237 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: regulators can improve Going forward. 238 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 2: Mre and Dino, the farmer from Honduras who already struggles 239 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 2: to get by selling coffee. The new rule came as 240 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 2: a surprise, as it did to so many, but with 241 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 2: the help of his local farming collective and a supply 242 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 2: chain mapping company, he's finally adding his plot to the map. 243 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,720 Speaker 2: Little by little, regulators hope that a new picture will 244 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 2: start to emerge, tree by tree, farm by farm of 245 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 2: where the world's goods really come from. This is the 246 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 2: big take from Bloomberg News. I'm Sarah Holder. This episode 247 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 2: was produced by Jessica Beck and Adriana Tapia. It was 248 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 2: edited by Stacy Vannocksmith and Rodney Jefferson. It was mixed 249 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 2: by Blake Maples. It was fact checked by Thomas lu 250 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: Our senior producers are Kim Gettelson and Naomi Shi. Our 251 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 2: senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso. Nicole beamsterbor is our executive producer. 252 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: Sage Bauman is our head of podcasts. Thanks for listening. 253 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 2: Please follow and review The Big Take wherever you get 254 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,120 Speaker 2: your podcasts. It helps new listeners find the show. We'll 255 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 2: be back on Monday.