1
00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:04,840
Speaker 1: Give it a chance, Give it a chance, Give it

2
00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:07,040
Speaker 1: a chance. Good morning, give it a chance, Give it

3
00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,720
Speaker 1: a chance, Give it a chance, give it a chance.

4
00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,080
Speaker 1: Good morning. Give it you want to give it a chance,

5
00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:17,919
Speaker 1: give it a chance, Give it a chance. Just welcome

6
00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,480
Speaker 1: tiny chancers, chancers.

7
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,720
Speaker 2: Wasn't any chance port. This is this pot is actually

8
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:25,880
Speaker 2: sponsored by chance Port.

9
00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 1: Great if it was Chanceport, that was a that was big.

10
00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,279
Speaker 1: Lisa still has her Chanceport. My wife, Lisa has her

11
00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:37,400
Speaker 1: Chanceport from like growing up. We still use it. Well,

12
00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:39,440
Speaker 1: good use it, but we keep it around.

13
00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:42,240
Speaker 2: Well, that's using it. That's a kind of using it.

14
00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:42,920
Speaker 1: That's true.

15
00:00:43,159 --> 00:00:44,640
Speaker 2: Can you hear me now? Can you hear me? Now?

16
00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,599
Speaker 2: That's cool? If I put a little I mean i'd

17
00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:49,760
Speaker 2: be able to see. I've been trying some new stuff

18
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,880
Speaker 2: audio wized tech wise. But anyway, I'm just like putting

19
00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:54,440
Speaker 2: my hands in front of the mic. Anyway, let's get

20
00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:59,959
Speaker 2: back to the subject at hand, Chanceport Dunco and go jeans. Well,

21
00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:06,120
Speaker 2: waity chances hold on Jenko jeans. That's like chocolate rain.

22
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,039
Speaker 1: Right, Oh wow, yeah it did sound like that. I

23
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,160
Speaker 1: know it is. Today's song is chocolate rain. Actually that

24
00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 1: would be great.

25
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,199
Speaker 2: Yo, I would be thrilled to give that a chance.

26
00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,559
Speaker 2: I think there's a lot there by.

27
00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:24,120
Speaker 1: The way, let's do it. Let's let's just say, just

28
00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,640
Speaker 1: to make all this tangent like, let's just do it.

29
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,440
Speaker 1: There's no reason we can't, Okay. I mean I had

30
00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:35,040
Speaker 1: a song on deck, but we just went from Jenk

31
00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:39,120
Speaker 1: from JanSport to Jenko Jeans to you doing an impression

32
00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,480
Speaker 1: of chocolate rain. And now that's gonna be our song.

33
00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,880
Speaker 2: Is little Jenko Jeans.

34
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:45,520
Speaker 1: That's by Taison Day.

35
00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,280
Speaker 2: It's Tay and you could do his name to it too,

36
00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:49,280
Speaker 2: Taison Day.

37
00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:52,559
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be honest with you, I don't it says

38
00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:54,200
Speaker 1: right now. I just cueued it up. It's four minutes

39
00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,480
Speaker 1: and fifty three seconds. I don't think I've ever watched

40
00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,160
Speaker 1: or listened to this entire video.

41
00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:00,720
Speaker 2: Oh I'm so happy to tell you that I have

42
00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:06,360
Speaker 2: probably watched all of it in the in the dozens.

43
00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,240
Speaker 2: I mean it's cheaper by the dozens, no dowdy, but

44
00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,480
Speaker 2: I definitely think I've watched it in the doz.

45
00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:15,840
Speaker 1: Well. This is a strange category because it's like his intention,

46
00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:17,679
Speaker 1: I think was to be serious, and then it was

47
00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,200
Speaker 1: sort of taken as like a joke and then like

48
00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,760
Speaker 1: memed early meme and then like.

49
00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:26,080
Speaker 2: Very early me sort of like the beginning of a

50
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,480
Speaker 2: certain kind of that as a thing the way I

51
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,360
Speaker 2: think he was like kind of he was there pretty

52
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:32,240
Speaker 2: early for sure.

53
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,120
Speaker 1: I'm excited for this. Wow, I'm so excited. All right,

54
00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:35,800
Speaker 1: where are you looking?

55
00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,960
Speaker 2: You? Are you looking on? Are you looking on a

56
00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 2: streaming service? Or are you looking on?

57
00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,840
Speaker 1: I went to YouTube and I see Chocolate Ran original song.

58
00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,000
Speaker 1: I love when people put original song, yeah you know,

59
00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:48,520
Speaker 1: or like I also love when people put Vivo and

60
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:53,280
Speaker 1: then they're not even their channel for Vivo was Okay,

61
00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:56,480
Speaker 1: here we go. Ready, everybody answers, listen and we'll be

62
00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:04,200
Speaker 1: right back. It's your leaders control tough. LIT mean.

63
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:12,040
Speaker 2: Now, I don't look I recognize. I think we talked

64
00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,600
Speaker 2: about this on an episode before. I don't mean to sound,

65
00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,800
Speaker 2: I really don't mean to sound. There's this film critic

66
00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:19,560
Speaker 2: I don't know if he's still writing this guy armand

67
00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,480
Speaker 2: d White. And when there was still like weeklies, all weeklies,

68
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,640
Speaker 2: you know, the Village Voice, the New York Press, all

69
00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,120
Speaker 2: that stuff, which still exists in some places a little bit,

70
00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,160
Speaker 2: but used to obviously be a ubiquity kind of before

71
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,519
Speaker 2: the Internet sort of killed it. He was a film

72
00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,200
Speaker 2: critic for the New York Press, and he was like

73
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,480
Speaker 2: a well known contrarian, and it was like is it

74
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,680
Speaker 2: a bit does he really think this? Like he would

75
00:03:41,720 --> 00:03:44,080
Speaker 2: give every movie that we would presume was like a

76
00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:47,880
Speaker 2: critic Darling Oscar bait movie, he would basically always like

77
00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 2: eviscerate them. He would put on his like end of

78
00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,200
Speaker 2: year list. You know. It would be stuff like you know,

79
00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,160
Speaker 2: things that were just like you know what was that

80
00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:01,360
Speaker 2: Jim Carrey movie with the the for Fairly Brothers, Me

81
00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,320
Speaker 2: and myself and Irene things like you know what I mean.

82
00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,680
Speaker 2: It would be like, yeah, so I don't want to

83
00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 2: be arm and white. I'm not trying to be a

84
00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,800
Speaker 2: contrarian at all costs. I will just say this song

85
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,880
Speaker 2: is to me. It's actually like wildly easy to give

86
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,040
Speaker 2: a chancey in a variety of directions.

87
00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 1: I've never had a bigger one eighty in my life.

88
00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,360
Speaker 2: It's really wild and I would love we can start

89
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,880
Speaker 2: wherever you want. I will just say, there's also a

90
00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:28,040
Speaker 2: fascinating contextualization of It's fine. I think Weezer made a

91
00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,440
Speaker 2: video with a bunch of these people maybe.

92
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,640
Speaker 1: For like yes, pork and beans. I believe it was right, and.

93
00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:35,960
Speaker 2: I think it was sort of like maybe even him

94
00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:40,640
Speaker 2: identifying to some extent with like the memeification of a

95
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,839
Speaker 2: particular kind of it's riding a line where you're like,

96
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,840
Speaker 2: this dude is clearly this song is actually like a

97
00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:52,039
Speaker 2: kind of relentless racial critique protest song.

98
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:57,039
Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Yeah, it's powerful, it's it's so. I again,

99
00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,320
Speaker 1: I want to just say I never heard this song,

100
00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:01,359
Speaker 1: like I always knew the meme, and I think I

101
00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,239
Speaker 1: remember watching a few snippets of Chocolate Rain and thinking

102
00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,640
Speaker 1: it was like kind of a funny thing. There's nothing

103
00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:09,560
Speaker 1: really funny about this, Like, in fact, it's it's a

104
00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,000
Speaker 1: flex it's amazing. You might be like, all he says

105
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,640
Speaker 1: chocolate rain two hundred times, but the other things he

106
00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,120
Speaker 1: says in between each chocolate rain, that's almost like what

107
00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:23,760
Speaker 1: a brilliant juxtaposition to even do that, And the fact

108
00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:27,160
Speaker 1: that it became this comical meme doesn't make any sense.

109
00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,719
Speaker 1: I mean, actually it like showcases what our society is,

110
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 1: which is like, right, people don't scratch the service and

111
00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,560
Speaker 1: they just look at ha haha, chocolate rain. Chocolate rain.

112
00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:37,880
Speaker 2: Well and I feel like that's part of the kind

113
00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:42,160
Speaker 2: of complexity to me of watching it now, is like

114
00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:47,839
Speaker 2: he also by doing certain things like that parenthetical I

115
00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,080
Speaker 2: move away from the mic while I sing, and if

116
00:05:50,080 --> 00:05:51,880
Speaker 2: you haven't watched the video, I invite you to watch that.

117
00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,400
Speaker 2: And then the way he kind of like floats away

118
00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:56,360
Speaker 2: at the very end, he like looks at the camera

119
00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,320
Speaker 2: and like goes like yes, that indicates that that is

120
00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:04,280
Speaker 2: kind of comedic or kind of like you can understand

121
00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:05,279
Speaker 2: how this became.

122
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,400
Speaker 1: It's an open mic guy, right, like you ever go

123
00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,240
Speaker 1: to an open mic and then there's a guy that's

124
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:11,799
Speaker 1: like saying, He's like this song's for you know whatever,

125
00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:15,800
Speaker 1: Hurricane Katrina. And then it's so sincere that even though

126
00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:20,080
Speaker 1: the message is like trying to do good, it's overly sincere,

127
00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,480
Speaker 1: and like everything become it's a church laugh. Everything becomes

128
00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:27,320
Speaker 1: comical because what he's talking about is so important.

129
00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,440
Speaker 2: Well, And I think the thing that's a little complex

130
00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,320
Speaker 2: about for lack of a better word, I don't there's

131
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,560
Speaker 2: a word I'm looking for that's not exactly complex. The

132
00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:38,720
Speaker 2: thing that's a little opaque about it is to what

133
00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,800
Speaker 2: degree is he trying to do both? Because it is

134
00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,920
Speaker 2: like that is actually like a very dexterous piano figure

135
00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,120
Speaker 2: he's playing, and he goes to lengths to show you

136
00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,600
Speaker 2: that he's playing it. It's also repeated with slight variations

137
00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,919
Speaker 2: in the bass note based placements for five minutes.

138
00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,440
Speaker 1: That's my anti chancy as well, Yes.

139
00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,360
Speaker 2: And I think that's part of what. So what I'm

140
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:02,680
Speaker 2: curious about is like he's doing these things that are

141
00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,200
Speaker 2: a little bit like a bit with the like I

142
00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:06,840
Speaker 2: move away from the mic while I'm breathing, floating off

143
00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:09,280
Speaker 2: at the very end of the song, and also being

144
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,000
Speaker 2: like I'm going to write this song. It's kind of

145
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:17,320
Speaker 2: a very nuanced and sort of comprehensive take on in

146
00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,360
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, and a lot of that stuff

147
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,320
Speaker 2: feels every bit is prevalent right now, if not more so.

148
00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,560
Speaker 2: I could, you know, venture to make a bunch of

149
00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,560
Speaker 2: guesses about exactly what he means in each particular part.

150
00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,240
Speaker 2: Some of it's pretty straightforward linguistically, some of it you

151
00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:36,720
Speaker 2: could like pick apart. Also, he called it chocolate rain,

152
00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:40,680
Speaker 2: and he says the phrase forty five thousand times over

153
00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,240
Speaker 2: the same piano figure and does those little things, so

154
00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,680
Speaker 2: it is a little bit like and then maybe this

155
00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:48,440
Speaker 2: is unfair, but in the seventeen years since, like I

156
00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:52,640
Speaker 2: have two friends who got me a cameo of him

157
00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:58,080
Speaker 2: saying something to me at an elevator. Yes, because I'm

158
00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,560
Speaker 2: so on the record about my like fascinating with this,

159
00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:03,040
Speaker 2: and you know, if you look at the rest of

160
00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:05,040
Speaker 2: his channel, he is now like a guy who's like

161
00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,760
Speaker 2: done a bunch of working out, wears tight T shirts,

162
00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,280
Speaker 2: exists in a space like cameo, and so it is

163
00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,880
Speaker 2: a little bit like, now, is that about Taizon Day?

164
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,720
Speaker 2: Is that about the nature of you know, flickle frying

165
00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:19,040
Speaker 2: pan celebrity? Is that about all of It's in this

166
00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,800
Speaker 2: weird stew that I can't completely excavate to too satisfaction.

167
00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:25,960
Speaker 2: But what I do know is like what's actually going

168
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,680
Speaker 2: on in this song is like you said, a flex,

169
00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,000
Speaker 2: this dude is playing a pretty dexterous piano part and

170
00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:37,160
Speaker 2: kind of like offering a Civix lesson while doing it

171
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,319
Speaker 2: in a way that's like if it's also we need

172
00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:43,600
Speaker 2: to address his voice is yes, sort of like the

173
00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:47,400
Speaker 2: crash Test Dummies guy or something like, it's this weird

174
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,839
Speaker 2: kind of like oh, like it's a deep, basy almost

175
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:54,000
Speaker 2: like musical theater or something.

176
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,120
Speaker 1: Especially at that time. So I will say that right now,

177
00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,720
Speaker 1: in culture and like on the internet, you get so

178
00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:04,120
Speaker 1: many different types of people and obviously like there's still

179
00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,200
Speaker 1: like a pop cream at the top that like is

180
00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:12,080
Speaker 1: you know Ariana Grande's that like, are you're quintessential the

181
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,359
Speaker 1: same singer that's always been famous, Yes, the same ability.

182
00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 2: Sabrina Carpenter and who Yeah.

183
00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:20,120
Speaker 1: But underneath that a lot of this has risen up

184
00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:22,560
Speaker 1: on through in a culture, a person who has this

185
00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:27,160
Speaker 1: voice can breakthrough and find an audience, and that's more

186
00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,720
Speaker 1: now than ever. Right, Like, it was an anomaly to

187
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:31,960
Speaker 1: have a crash Test dummies, you know, if you don't know,

188
00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:34,920
Speaker 1: it's like wounds. There was this kid and the nineties

189
00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,440
Speaker 1: was good at that too, and this guy found that.

190
00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:40,559
Speaker 1: But I think through like a an ironic.

191
00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:45,680
Speaker 2: Well totally, and a critical difference between the two is

192
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:50,559
Speaker 2: that crash Test Dummies were signed to a major, multinational,

193
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 2: corporate record label. This guy found this putting up a

194
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,280
Speaker 2: video on YouTube that a bunch of people just shared

195
00:09:57,320 --> 00:09:58,760
Speaker 2: with one another and were like, Yeo, have you seen

196
00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,320
Speaker 2: this insane thing? I don't know how many people have

197
00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,199
Speaker 2: really zoned in on the lyrics, I will say this

198
00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:07,400
Speaker 2: is like that is I think where like your experience

199
00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,559
Speaker 2: of this song actually changes pretty dramatically, as if you're

200
00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,400
Speaker 2: actually like, wait, what is he saying between chocolate rains

201
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:14,960
Speaker 2: and then.

202
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:19,880
Speaker 1: Even chocolate rain? Like even just what chocolate rain means?

203
00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:22,800
Speaker 1: I never thought about or of course not because it's

204
00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 1: ever saying a song like I've only heard in small things,

205
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:30,000
Speaker 1: So I always thought it was like random internet chocolate rain.

206
00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,480
Speaker 1: But it's it's like, I mean, you know, if you

207
00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,719
Speaker 1: could extrapolate in a couple of different directions, but one

208
00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,680
Speaker 1: in one of them, which is like the struggle of

209
00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, Black Americans, and the rain is that of

210
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,280
Speaker 1: like you know, to symbolize like the sadness that it

211
00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,400
Speaker 1: falls upon and like that you have to you know,

212
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,280
Speaker 1: survive through it. You know, there's this like iconography of it.

213
00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:55,800
Speaker 1: It's really what but it comes off as chocolate rain.

214
00:10:55,960 --> 00:11:04,200
Speaker 1: It's so weird, right.

215
00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:12,400
Speaker 2: Talks rain every February we washed no ways. What's funny

216
00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,160
Speaker 2: is actually as a writing device, he like read the

217
00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:21,920
Speaker 2: nature of the use of that rain motif changes multiple

218
00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:24,720
Speaker 2: times throughout the song, but most often you're right, I

219
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,880
Speaker 2: hear it in the like it's like that Book of Revelation,

220
00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,800
Speaker 2: A hard rain's gonna fall like that kind of rain,

221
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,240
Speaker 2: you know, or like credence rain, like who's gonna I

222
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,280
Speaker 2: wonder who'll stop the rain? Have you ever seen the rain?

223
00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,880
Speaker 2: Is like this kind of like those people were singing

224
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,880
Speaker 2: it about Dylan and Creeden's Clearwater in the sixties. It's

225
00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,880
Speaker 2: like the onset of the civil rights movement, and it's

226
00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,520
Speaker 2: like Vietnam, these things that are cataclysms. And so if

227
00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:56,079
Speaker 2: you're singing about like structural institutional racism, that qualifies and

228
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:59,600
Speaker 2: certainly like also if you're unsure how he means it,

229
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:01,440
Speaker 2: then there's these moments where says things like, you know,

230
00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,680
Speaker 2: February in America, what is February Black History Month? And

231
00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,280
Speaker 2: he says, you know, every February washed away, like oh,

232
00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,319
Speaker 2: we've done our duty, we paid attention to this and

233
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,200
Speaker 2: you know whatever, and now you know whatever, we don't

234
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:16,040
Speaker 2: have to get too far field. Incidentally, there are plenty

235
00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:18,240
Speaker 2: of people that don't even want that to exist. That's

236
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:20,760
Speaker 2: too much so and all it is is like a

237
00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,880
Speaker 2: cursory gesture at best. And he talks about this. This

238
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:26,840
Speaker 2: makes me think about I can't believe I'm doing a

239
00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,880
Speaker 2: Tason Dave Bob Dylan thing. But yeah, it's it's like,

240
00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,880
Speaker 2: that's like the lonesome death of Hattie Carrol. The ladder

241
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,439
Speaker 2: of law knows no top and no bottom. And he's

242
00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:39,559
Speaker 2: like talking about the rigged justice system between like the

243
00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,200
Speaker 2: maid that the black maid that this rich white guy kills.

244
00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,880
Speaker 2: That's this Dylan song from nineteen sixty four. Tayzon Day

245
00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:49,559
Speaker 2: spends a whole verse in this song as fart and

246
00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,040
Speaker 2: so far as there are verses, it's just a screed.

247
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,679
Speaker 2: But at one point he's talking about like the judge

248
00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,920
Speaker 2: and jury say swear it's not the face he says

249
00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:00,920
Speaker 2: at one point, and he talks about the different ways

250
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,400
Speaker 2: justice is meted out the way I'm like, if you

251
00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:06,800
Speaker 2: really lock into it, it's actually like completely crazy. But

252
00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,679
Speaker 2: then also it was delivered in this way. Sure, like

253
00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,640
Speaker 2: I've never heard him talk about this, but I know

254
00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:15,000
Speaker 2: he's like on cameo and like was happy to be

255
00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,600
Speaker 2: in that Weezer video. So it's like a complex thing

256
00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:18,240
Speaker 2: is going on.

257
00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,800
Speaker 1: Oh for sure, I mean, and I completely agree that

258
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:24,640
Speaker 1: this is delivered slightly different. It is a it's an

259
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:27,880
Speaker 1: incredible protest song and in fact, a lot of protest

260
00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:30,240
Speaker 1: music does repeat like a lot of protests. Oh yeah,

261
00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,800
Speaker 1: a chance over and over again. So like the difference

262
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,120
Speaker 1: between like silence is violence and like chocolate rain is

263
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:37,760
Speaker 1: that far? It's just that.

264
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:41,240
Speaker 2: No, it's an earworm kind of thing, a rhythmic earworm

265
00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:41,760
Speaker 2: kind of thing.

266
00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:44,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, but if I'm going anti chancy, it's like.

267
00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,200
Speaker 2: You gotta go anti chancy at some point in case.

268
00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,640
Speaker 1: It's a lot of repetition, right, it's a lot of

269
00:13:49,679 --> 00:13:52,480
Speaker 1: I think even the fact that he kind of like

270
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:54,720
Speaker 1: in the video comes back to like clear his throat

271
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,800
Speaker 1: away from the mic, and he does it so many times,

272
00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:02,600
Speaker 1: like everything is becomes comedic. But even protest music is

273
00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,640
Speaker 1: can become comedic after a while, right, Like when you

274
00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:09,679
Speaker 1: know you go far away from it, it sometimes is like.

275
00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,199
Speaker 2: Oh my god, it's that what is that? I mean,

276
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,760
Speaker 2: these are a bunch of complicated people at this point

277
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,920
Speaker 2: in our culture's history. But it makes me think of

278
00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,880
Speaker 2: that what was that movie Get him to the Greek

279
00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,760
Speaker 2: and that Russell Brand character that's like the like fading

280
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:26,880
Speaker 2: rock star and you see that he has just made

281
00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,840
Speaker 2: this video. He's like a white, rich British dude and

282
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:32,760
Speaker 2: he's made this video called African Child. That's kind of

283
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,840
Speaker 2: been like the end of his success, and it's like

284
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,040
Speaker 2: the white Savior thing and he's dancing like yeah. The

285
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,520
Speaker 2: reason that stuff is a trope in entertainment is because

286
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:48,160
Speaker 2: it is often ludicrous, sanctimonious, tone deaf, and it is

287
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,720
Speaker 2: delivered in a way that is instantly self satirizing.

288
00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,360
Speaker 1: And so remember the Imagine, Like during the Imagine, on

289
00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,640
Speaker 1: the whole they had so much positive, like good intent,

290
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,760
Speaker 1: it was edited poorly, like that whole thing. Their message

291
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,280
Speaker 1: is sincere, but it comes off so bad.

292
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,640
Speaker 2: It's certainly in April of twenty twenty, when it was

293
00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,240
Speaker 2: like a bunch of like the richest, most famous people

294
00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:16,640
Speaker 2: in America in their houses singing lines while people are like,

295
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:21,160
Speaker 2: you know, dying with COVID end mass was a little

296
00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,120
Speaker 2: bit like whoops, you know, And I think, you know,

297
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,760
Speaker 2: I'd like to think the Taison Day that wrote Chocolate

298
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,920
Speaker 2: Rain would be able to write something kind of pretty

299
00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:31,880
Speaker 2: stellar and insightful about that too. Also, he says at

300
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,760
Speaker 2: one point turn that it's not just a racial critique,

301
00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:37,600
Speaker 2: it's an economic class critique. He says at one point

302
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,440
Speaker 2: turn that body into GDP.

303
00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:42,760
Speaker 1: Yes, that's insane.

304
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:43,960
Speaker 2: That's insane.

305
00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:48,440
Speaker 1: There's like some really impressive imagery and like wordplay and

306
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 1: a lot of it. It's wild even just like stuff

307
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,240
Speaker 1: like but test scores are how much the parents make yes? Yes,

308
00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:58,680
Speaker 1: it's crazy like that a lot of it. It's really

309
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,840
Speaker 1: he just like drops it on you and doesn't explore it,

310
00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:03,840
Speaker 1: which is you might be like, well, he's just saying

311
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,960
Speaker 1: He's just like he wrote down a bunch of lines

312
00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,040
Speaker 1: and said them and he doesn't really explore what that means.

313
00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:10,360
Speaker 1: But I like that, I actually really like.

314
00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:13,360
Speaker 2: And also if he explored, what if he was like,

315
00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:16,480
Speaker 2: maybe if there was an accompanying essay where he was like,

316
00:16:16,640 --> 00:16:18,680
Speaker 2: Just to be clear, chocolate rain is meant to be

317
00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:21,840
Speaker 2: a metaphor for structural institutional racism, not just in America

318
00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,000
Speaker 2: but across the world. That's why I touch on riots

319
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,240
Speaker 2: in France and the cast system in Mumbai. You'd probably

320
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,400
Speaker 2: be like, oh, you know what I mean, Like, I

321
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,560
Speaker 2: get it, I know how we are and we like

322
00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,080
Speaker 2: you don't really Then you'd be like, well, I don't

323
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:36,920
Speaker 2: want to watch this anymore because I just thought this

324
00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:38,080
Speaker 2: was like funny.

325
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:40,520
Speaker 1: But there are people and this is the beauty of it, right,

326
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,560
Speaker 1: this this gets memed. Yeah, and there's probably somebody who

327
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:46,560
Speaker 1: watched it and was like, that's so funny, but wait,

328
00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:47,960
Speaker 1: what is this thing about Mumbai?

329
00:16:48,240 --> 00:16:51,080
Speaker 2: Yeah? And then suddenly they're like, people, are you and

330
00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:53,560
Speaker 2: I we're doing this right now right now? Yes?

331
00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:57,120
Speaker 1: Right, yes, yeah, but like I like, you know, thankfully,

332
00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,480
Speaker 1: like not thankfully, but like we know a lot of this, right,

333
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:03,760
Speaker 1: But there were probably kids. And that's sometimes the best

334
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:06,040
Speaker 1: thing about art is like when it it just kind

335
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,280
Speaker 1: of gets in there, like like a protest song you

336
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:09,760
Speaker 1: never even knew was a protest song.

337
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:09,959
Speaker 2: Right.

338
00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 1: We've talked about like Born in the USA, and we've

339
00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:14,960
Speaker 1: talked about some of these like tunes that that people

340
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,240
Speaker 1: don't realize are you know that are actually that have

341
00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,200
Speaker 1: a message? This one's interesting because it is overtly here's

342
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,920
Speaker 1: the message, But it's not like the Black Eyed p

343
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,240
Speaker 1: is like where is the love? Whereas yeah, we definitely

344
00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,240
Speaker 1: we're serious to y'all. That might be a good one

345
00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:33,840
Speaker 1: to bring back for another time.

346
00:17:33,920 --> 00:17:39,320
Speaker 2: By the way, uhmark that that's it started the original version. Yeah,

347
00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,119
Speaker 2: we could do. I mean, it depends how long we

348
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,919
Speaker 2: want this podcast to exist. But I do feel like

349
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,600
Speaker 2: when well, the thing about sorry slight cul de sac.

350
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,159
Speaker 2: This kind of connects to our lifestyles of the rich

351
00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,480
Speaker 2: and famous episode. The thing about something like where is

352
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,280
Speaker 2: the Love is that there's a part of that that

353
00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:01,800
Speaker 2: wants to be like, let's get serious about nothing. There's

354
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,480
Speaker 2: like a vacancy in the middle of where that song

355
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,240
Speaker 2: is not that is not. No one's gonna mistake that

356
00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 2: for the lonesome death of Hattie Carroll anytime soon, dam

357
00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,560
Speaker 2: and I even mistake it for like we are the world,

358
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,120
Speaker 2: you know, Like there's what's going on in the middle

359
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,119
Speaker 2: of that song is like that's a certain genre of

360
00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:24,240
Speaker 2: protest music that is actually protesting nothing. It is actually

361
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,720
Speaker 2: like wearing the clothes of something like that for a

362
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 2: stab at authenticity. But what's happening inside of it is

363
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,199
Speaker 2: like if you like it's like a broken clock or

364
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:35,760
Speaker 2: something like if you got in there, you'd be like,

365
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 2: oh wait, there's actually the reason this clock doesn't work

366
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,480
Speaker 2: is because there's nothing inside of it. It's like a

367
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,560
Speaker 2: model home or whatever. But yeah, I feel like something

368
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 2: like this also again, and this is again maybe like

369
00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:50,800
Speaker 2: getting into something super structural about like the nature of

370
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:54,239
Speaker 2: memified fame or even fame at all. I don't know,

371
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,359
Speaker 2: is like he also delivers it. The part of why

372
00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,280
Speaker 2: it doesn't totally connect as whatever it is is because

373
00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:06,639
Speaker 2: it's just a single mid let range shot of a

374
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,560
Speaker 2: man standing singing this song, not looking into the camera

375
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,080
Speaker 2: every once in a while, moving away from the camera

376
00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,400
Speaker 2: to breathe every once in a while. There's an overhead

377
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,280
Speaker 2: shot of him playing piano, and that's it for five minutes.

378
00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:24,080
Speaker 2: And there's something in it that's like, is this Andy Kaufman? Like?

379
00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,959
Speaker 2: Does this guy know exactly what he's doing? Is this like?

380
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,760
Speaker 2: And then you're like, I think the benefit of seventeen

381
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 2: years of perspective is like, maybe Andy Coffin would have

382
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,720
Speaker 2: been if he was alive now and working in the

383
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,400
Speaker 2: current climate, maybe he would have also been somebody who

384
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,720
Speaker 2: it was like, maybe he would have been revealed to

385
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:47,639
Speaker 2: have just been another like YouTube personality also or something.

386
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,119
Speaker 2: I don't know. Maybe maybe we can we over I

387
00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,960
Speaker 2: have no idea. That's an interesting thought experiment, like was

388
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 2: he a performance artist or was he a total hack?

389
00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:57,679
Speaker 2: Or was he I tend to think there was a

390
00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 2: lot going on there. Also, you could make the claim

391
00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,639
Speaker 2: if you just saw chocolate rain once, you'd be like,

392
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 2: is this like brilliant performance art or twenty twenty four,

393
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,200
Speaker 2: You're like, can you get a cameo from this guy

394
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:14,879
Speaker 2: in an elevator being like GeV divine yes? Or is

395
00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 2: all of that true at the same time.

396
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:19,199
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's explore that, right, because I do think that

397
00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,400
Speaker 1: sometimes this happens, probably a lot of people who kind

398
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 1: of get famous out of nowhere, especially like this sort

399
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,520
Speaker 1: of ironic to a girl, right, A lot of that, right,

400
00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:33,440
Speaker 1: And this is interesting because your message was so sincere

401
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:36,800
Speaker 1: and then like people are like kind of laughing, not

402
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 1: necessarily with you, you.

403
00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:43,000
Speaker 2: Know, definitely not I'm sure many people were laughing at yeah. Yeah.

404
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 1: And then he sort of, you know, does this you know,

405
00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 1: weeds your video or other probably things or just leans

406
00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 1: into the culture of that meme. I don't really fault

407
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 1: him for it. I think it's just what anyone would do.

408
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 1: And I bet you he has other songs that he

409
00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 1: probably found an audience that is not laughing, So I

410
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 1: give him. It's easy to write him off for doing

411
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 1: something like that, right, But it's pretty savvy, right, and

412
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people do that. Hawk too

413
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 1: is a great example, because like I think she's going

414
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 1: to be like she's going to replace Hoda on the

415
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 1: on the Today Show, like in the way that our

416
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 1: culture is going. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah,

417
00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:23,240
Speaker 1: I just found out today that Hoda is leaving.

418
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,040
Speaker 2: I just saw too. It was breaking news, breaking news

419
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 2: amidst everything else insane that's happening in the world today.

420
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 2: But when I get that sometimes I'm like, hey, guys,

421
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,160
Speaker 2: even the paper of Record, let's examine what we mean

422
00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 2: when we say breaking news. But I guess that's a

423
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:38,640
Speaker 2: big deal in the culture.

424
00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 1: Now going back to good Charlotte.

425
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:56,320
Speaker 2: Poor good Charlotte, just catching strays. It's always I mean, look,

426
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 2: it's deserted.

427
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,000
Speaker 1: But yeah, like I don't know, like if they they

428
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,720
Speaker 1: have this song and we knew going into it that

429
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 1: they are dating these models and they live in basically mansions,

430
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,960
Speaker 1: and then they say, like, you know, how dare you like,

431
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 1: let's rob those mansions?

432
00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:14,360
Speaker 2: Right? Yeah?

433
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:16,639
Speaker 1: But then if they afterwards echo or if like they

434
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,199
Speaker 1: get sponsored by Abercrombie and Fitch or something and they

435
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,280
Speaker 1: do that, they're bringing punk to Abercrombie and Fitch, Right, Yeah,

436
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:25,160
Speaker 1: is that allowed? Right? If we're giving if we're giving

437
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,919
Speaker 1: Tay a pass, are we giving everyone a pass? And

438
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 1: we don't. We usually don't, meaning you and me or

439
00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 1: the culture, you and me, you and me.

440
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 2: I feel like the thing is this for me, I

441
00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 2: don't know what you know, one can say what is

442
00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: objectively the thing, because that's different for everybody. But the

443
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 2: thing for me is that I get that some of

444
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 2: my thought processes about stuff like this are both they're

445
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: kind of relics at this point. They're a little antiquated.

446
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 2: At this point, I think we thoroughly live in a

447
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 2: post for instance, like look, one argument about a guy

448
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,679
Speaker 2: like Taizon Day again, like in contrast to something that

449
00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 2: was like a novelty act on a major corporate record label,

450
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 2: is that he built whatever the hell this is, ostensibly

451
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:14,399
Speaker 2: by himself with the great luck of algorithmic you know aid.

452
00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:17,080
Speaker 2: But he didn't. This wasn't something that like whatever money

453
00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 2: he's made from this, and whatever corporate involvement he has

454
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,720
Speaker 2: had or not had from this came as afterwards. It

455
00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 2: wasn't upfront. And so I mean, there is something about

456
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,120
Speaker 2: that that is like of its time and a little

457
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: bit like inverted. There's like, you know, something you could

458
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 2: even call vaguely punk rock about that. It's definitely to

459
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 2: thine own self be true. But I would also say

460
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 2: I think we live in it. Like you know, I

461
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,920
Speaker 2: read something recently that was really I thought very interesting

462
00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,159
Speaker 2: and cool about like the basically like the death of

463
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: the word indie meaning anything like it began somewhere in

464
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 2: the mid two thousandth and it basically in the mid

465
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:01,720
Speaker 2: two thousands became like a reference to a certain sensibility, right,

466
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 2: not like an independently created, funded, executed, delivered work of

467
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 2: art or entertainment, which is literally what indie meant at

468
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 2: a time was independent of certain systems. That is no

469
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 2: longer what anybody thinks when they mean that indie means

470
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 2: like people like you were, like whatever, certain hairstyles, certain, yes, exactly,

471
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 2: And so basically with that, I think what has also

472
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 2: come is like, I know, there's a musician I admire

473
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 2: a great deal, And part of what I admired about

474
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: them at a certain point was that they were pretty

475
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:37,479
Speaker 2: like successful but also committed to a certain kind of

476
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 2: like independent existence and we're doing very well by any

477
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 2: sort of objective metric. And then at some point what

478
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 2: was kind of unfortunate I thought was that they're part

479
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 2: of it became a little bit like literally in some

480
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,920
Speaker 2: interview they made some reference to like if I could

481
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 2: go back and change anything, I would have just said

482
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: yes every time I made all the money I could

483
00:24:57,520 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 2: have made. It's basically this like don't eat the player,

484
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 2: hate the game, don't hat the sin or hate the sin,

485
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,439
Speaker 2: like got to get your bag. And I'm not going

486
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,360
Speaker 2: to stand there and tell anybody that that's not the right.

487
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 2: I don't know that there. I don't know one. This

488
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 2: is not sainthood. We live in an economic system, and

489
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: we live in a system of social mobility, or a

490
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 2: supposed social mobility, but it's like sort of a system

491
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 2: of you want to be visible and you want to

492
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,239
Speaker 2: be making money. And if you're in this thing, like

493
00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 2: I get it. It's kind of like someone like me

494
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 2: who's trying to resume. Yeah, and if you're like trying

495
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,200
Speaker 2: to do it without doing it, there's an argument that

496
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 2: that's like actually like really naive and self defeating. But

497
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:40,040
Speaker 2: there is something to me about No, do I think

498
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:42,440
Speaker 2: it's wrong that he took all the opportunities that came

499
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 2: to him through a funny video that he put up

500
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,159
Speaker 2: on or whether he thought it was funny or not,

501
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 2: of course not, but I also I'm allowed to think

502
00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:52,680
Speaker 2: to understand why any of us make the decisions we make,

503
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:55,560
Speaker 2: and I'm also allowed to find it a little sad.

504
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 2: Like I think those two things at the same time.

505
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 1: We're talking about two things, right, Like there's sort of

506
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: a sellout. There's the fact that I think sellout culture

507
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,239
Speaker 1: is gone, or like just even the idea of like

508
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: people being bummed when people sell out, like that doesn't

509
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: exist anymore.

510
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: Right, not the same way, certainly not.

511
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: I don't think at all. I think there are still

512
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: people holding on to, like, you know, an idea of

513
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: what something is, and then when somebody crosses into something

514
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:21,919
Speaker 1: where they're making a lot of money, people are like

515
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: sell out. But I don't think there's many people even

516
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,880
Speaker 1: do that at all anymore. Sure, maybe a generation still

517
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: holds onto it. But then there's also, yeah, you're right,

518
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: there's this thing of I also, yeah, you're right, Like

519
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,399
Speaker 1: there's just like stay in your lane or like the

520
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:37,960
Speaker 1: thing that you set out to do, you're doing the

521
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:39,800
Speaker 1: opposite of right.

522
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 2: I'm trying to complicate it.

523
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 1: No, because that's even a third thing, which is like

524
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: there are people who nowadays it's like there was a

525
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: time that it.

526
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,080
Speaker 2: Was like everybody wants to talk again something, Yeah, like

527
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:53,920
Speaker 2: you should stick.

528
00:26:53,800 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: With wrapping and not doing podcasts.

529
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:55,959
Speaker 2: Right.

530
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:58,680
Speaker 1: No, there was a time that people were like, stay

531
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: in your lane, don't be a jack of all trades, right,

532
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 1: you know, Like, but now it's like it's it seemsdvantageous

533
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: to do too much.

534
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,640
Speaker 2: I saw something amazing that Rob Schnaff record producer said

535
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 2: to me recently, which was for like a Seinfeld meme,

536
00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 2: and it was like every musician now reckoning with the

537
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 2: fact that they're supposed to be like a marketing mogul

538
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 2: and a content producer and a social media expert. And

539
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 2: it was Jerry and George and the diner and they're

540
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: having some one of their endless, minutia obsessed nonsense conversations

541
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 2: and Jerry just like pushes back from the table and

542
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 2: he's like, what is this? What even is this? What

543
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 2: lives are we living?

544
00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: You know?

545
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 2: And that's the thing, No, right you are. You are encouraged,

546
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 2: And how could you judge people for wanting to like

547
00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: be stable, successful, visible, secure in the culture Taizon Day

548
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: or anybody else. At the same time, I do reserve

549
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 2: the right to feel like, you know, it's like funny.

550
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: It's like there's these certain like stuff. I could go

551
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 2: in a million different directions about this, but it's like,

552
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:06,920
Speaker 2: there are a lot of things that I totally understand

553
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 2: from a practical pragmatic and have to and you accept

554
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: as part of just like how things work. But also

555
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 2: if you step back from them or not even that far,

556
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,959
Speaker 2: you're like, well, I'm still allowed to think that's like

557
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: a mega bummer that those are the terms of engagement

558
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 2: and that doesn't mean like, look, if you're somebody like

559
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 2: this and you make this video and hundreds of millions

560
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:30,959
Speaker 2: of times this video is viewed, and what that enables

561
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: you to do is like get on the radar. If

562
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: someone like a Rivers Cuomo to wants to put you

563
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,080
Speaker 2: in a song with a bunch of people who are

564
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: like you, it's kind of like this like we're in

565
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 2: on the joke kind of thing. You know, there's some

566
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 2: empowerment in that. And also if what it allows you

567
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: to do is like every once in a while go

568
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 2: on these weird branded tours or be it a corporate event,

569
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,160
Speaker 2: or have someone like my friends be like, hey, we'll

570
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,840
Speaker 2: pay this guy fifty bucks to say like happy birthday

571
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: to Kevin, How in the world could you? But if

572
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 2: you get into what he's talking about in the thing

573
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,480
Speaker 2: that exploded it, it's kind of a mind fuck. Actually,

574
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,360
Speaker 2: you're just kind of like, what the fuck? There's a

575
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: lot there, as I guess that would be my ultimate chance,

576
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: is that there's so much more in this than you

577
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:15,239
Speaker 2: would just get from being like, ok itd rain. And

578
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 2: also you can get plenty from that too, worse than shouting,

579
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 2: worse than full of nignaus.

580
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 1: Wow, that's a good one. That's a good crash. You've

581
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: been working on it. So I didn't know fiventeen years

582
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: about you. I didn't know that you were so big

583
00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: into Tay.

584
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: I don't know what it is. It's I find it

585
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: a fascinating piece of epemera, Like it is a crazy

586
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: thing to me, soup to nuts. Everything about this is

587
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,840
Speaker 2: just like endless fascination.

588
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: Is it because you see yourself in him? Yeah?

589
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 2: I see myself. I mean honestly, it's like I see

590
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 2: myself in I see myself and most of the artists

591
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: we talk about on this show. I see myself in Tay.

592
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: I see myself in you know. I'm Madley and angry

593
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: with you.

594
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that we would go in this story.

595
00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously, this whole episode was such a fun

596
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: surprise because I you know, you know, I had a

597
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: song in the chamber, locked loaded, ready to shoot, and

598
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 1: then I like that we just followed this direction. It's

599
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: it's very fun and surprising.

600
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: I want to keep you on your toes case. I

601
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 2: want to bring something to this exchange. All the feedback

602
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 2: I get out on the road and thank you to

603
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: the chancers that come to the shows. I'm not a joke.

604
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: I'm not joking. People come up every show now and

605
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: talk about the podcast, which is amazing, but all the

606
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,640
Speaker 2: feedback is like, dude, your garbage, you suck your subs

607
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,400
Speaker 2: Ondaie Casey's great, You're like posts on Dae and I'm like,

608
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I'm trying to keep all my

609
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: eyes toes. All right, look, we got a minute left

610
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 2: to wrap this up.

611
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: Okay, So Taison Day, Yeah, Taison Day is Rage against

612
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,520
Speaker 1: the Machine, like to.

613
00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 2: The max you might be crass.

614
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I learned the most that I can't

615
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: I mean like that, it really is like if someone

616
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: listened to, you know, like a Rage against the Machine

617
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: album and then was just like, how funny is this?

618
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: That's how I'm.

619
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 2: Realizing, which some people might yeah.

620
00:30:57,360 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: I had I mean, I really had no idea that

621
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: this was so not even politically charged, just.

622
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 2: Like insightful, incisive, insensate, insensitive, insensitive, But yeah.

623
00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that it was Zach Taylor Rock posing

624
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: as Taysoon Day. That's what I've really learned.

625
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 2: Well, I'm glad you learned something. And what I've learned

626
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 2: is is almost time to go, and so peace and

627
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: love to get all of our chancewers enters on Deetherer