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Speaker 1: Will it never end for the family of three year

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Speaker 1: old Mattie McCann, the beautiful little girl who was snatched

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Speaker 1: from her own bed while on vacation with her parents.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine being away from on vacation, away from

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Speaker 1: your home and your familiar surroundings, lulled into a false

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Speaker 1: sense of complacency, and your baby goes missing. You'll hardly

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Speaker 1: even know where you are, where to look, who to call,

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Speaker 1: what to do. That is exactly what happened to the

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Speaker 1: parents of three year old Mattie, and to this day

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Speaker 1: no answers. But is there finally a break in the case?

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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace? Is there finally a break

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Speaker 1: in the case? I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation

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Speaker 1: at serious XM one eleven. First of all, take a

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Speaker 1: listen to our friends at Sky News. A three year

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Speaker 1: old British girl has gone missing in the our garve

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Speaker 1: in Portugal. Course we can speak out to Dan Mason,

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Speaker 1: who's a journalist who works in that area. Dan, thanks

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Speaker 1: for joining us on Sky New Sunrise this morning. What

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Speaker 1: are the details that you've gleaned so far? Hello? Yeah, all,

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Speaker 1: I basically know is that the child was obviously thaying

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Speaker 1: a Mark Warner establishment and was reported missing around him

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Speaker 1: last night. She's three years old, assister the name of

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Speaker 1: Madeline or Maddie fair Hair, and the most of the

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Speaker 1: people in the area. We're through to about four o'clock

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Speaker 1: in the morning yesterday and obviously through hedges and down

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Speaker 1: the Duc to Avail and I've just been down this

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Speaker 1: morning to the club again to see if for anymore

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Speaker 1: news in the situation is basically the same as the

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Speaker 1: days pass. The situation stays the same. There's been a

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Speaker 1: lot of finger pointing. Everybody says that's somebody else's fault.

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Speaker 1: But bottom line, I believe investigators there at the holiday

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Speaker 1: resort dropped the ball. But is there a break in

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Speaker 1: the case. Finally, you know, her parents must be worn

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Speaker 1: down to a nub, just raw after all this time

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Speaker 1: looking for their little girl. Mattie McCann joining me an

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Speaker 1: all star panel to break it down and put it

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Speaker 1: back together again, or now attorneys joining me out of

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Speaker 1: New York. This morning, Jay said Oceans Forensic Psychiatrists. You

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Speaker 1: can find him on insta at doctor Daniel bober Chloye

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Speaker 1: Tiger thirty six your Seattle PD twenty two of that

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Speaker 1: homicide and author of Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer, Gary gene Grant.

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Speaker 1: He's at Chloyd Steger dot com. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,

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Speaker 1: but straight out to Dave Mack Crime online dot Com

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter Dave Mack. Who is this German dude that

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Speaker 1: is now suspect number one? Who is he? Let's just

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Speaker 1: start with that. His name is Christian Bruckner. He's forty

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Speaker 1: three years old, as you mentioned, from Germany, who traveled

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Speaker 1: back and forth between Germany, Portugal and Italy. Pause pause,

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Speaker 1: Just tell me one thing. Is he connected in any

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Speaker 1: way to a statward child pornography? Yes, ma'am, he is.

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Speaker 1: It's really all I need to know right there? Do

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Speaker 1: I need to know anything else? Let me guess white

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Speaker 1: male loner listen to somebody's attic apartment something like that.

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Speaker 1: Am I even close to Dave matt Am? I just

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Speaker 1: a little close, bueh. And all this time this perv

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Speaker 1: has been right under the nose of police, the noses

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Speaker 1: of police. To tell me some more about this guy.

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Speaker 1: Just we know he's connected for sure to child porn.

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Speaker 1: Does he have Dave matt crime online dot com? Does

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Speaker 1: he have a criminal history. He's got a long criminal

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Speaker 1: history that includes robbery's burglaries, and he has been convicted

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Speaker 1: of sexual abuse of a child way back in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety four. Personal right, right? You know, Dave matt you

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Speaker 1: know how I feel about you. You know, I respect you,

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Speaker 1: care about you. You're on our team. But why in

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Speaker 1: the hey do you bury the lead? The guy has

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Speaker 1: child porn and he's got an abuse on a child

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Speaker 1: conviction headline. What else do we know about him? Dave Matt? Well,

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Speaker 1: you're correct, And the reason I pointed out the robbery's

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Speaker 1: burglaries and tourist thing is because that's how he slipped

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Speaker 1: under in the cracks in this investigation beginning with the

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Speaker 1: Portugal authority. You know you just said something about tourist.

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Speaker 1: What about tourist? What does that fit into his criminal history? Nancy?

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Speaker 1: He was actually known to burglarize the apartments and hotel

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Speaker 1: rooms of tourists in this particular place in Portugal where

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Speaker 1: Mattie McCann went missing. Now I get your reasoning, Dave,

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Speaker 1: mac hold on, Jackie's waving a note at me that

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Speaker 1: says our ape Dave mac Why is she waving that

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Speaker 1: at me? Because he planned the rate of a seventy

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Speaker 1: two year old American woman living in Portugal in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and five. He was It's just the most disgusting thing.

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Speaker 1: But it was right near the very place where Maddie

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Speaker 1: McCanne went missing. This is two years she Jackie's telling

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Speaker 1: me two rapes. You've got the seventy two year old woman.

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Speaker 1: Did he or did he not rape the seventy two

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Speaker 1: year old woman? Yes, he raped the seventy two year

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Speaker 1: old farms, so he didn't just plant as you just said,

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Speaker 1: he raped her. Is there another rape in his criminal history?

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Speaker 1: In his first conviction of sexual assault rate in nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety four? Is that on the child boy or girl boy?

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Speaker 1: And there's another tourist, I mean, Joe's got Morgan, Cloyd Steiger,

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Speaker 1: doctor Daniel Bober, Jason Oceans. This guy should have been

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Speaker 1: locked up under the jail, but all the signs are

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Speaker 1: there's Cloyd Steiger twenty two years in homicide. Here's a

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Speaker 1: guy that has been breaking in to tourists hotel rooms.

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Speaker 1: Jackie did I ever tell you that happened to me?

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Speaker 1: One time? David and I went to Florida and we

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Speaker 1: had been on the beach. He went somewhere and I

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Speaker 1: was in a shower in the hotel room. I thought

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Speaker 1: I heard a door, but then I listened. I didn't

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Speaker 1: hear anything. When I got out of the shower, my pocketbook,

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Speaker 1: everything in my pocketbook was gone. And people have an

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Speaker 1: m O an m O. Would you agree with that?

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Speaker 1: Cloyd Steiger? This guy had an MO. He raped a

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Speaker 1: seventy two year old woman in that tourist area, and

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Speaker 1: as MO modus operendi. Method of operation was that he

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Speaker 1: would break into hotel rooms while tourists were out of

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Speaker 1: their hotel room. And that night Cloyd Steiger Mattie mckenn's parents,

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Speaker 1: we're having dinner about I think it was Dave McK

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Speaker 1: if anybody knows, correct me on the distance, about a

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Speaker 1: hundred yards away at an outdoor table, and they would

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Speaker 1: go back and check on the children asleep in the

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Speaker 1: rooms every twenty minutes. So they were out of their room.

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Speaker 1: Who's that, Dave? Is that you? They were about one

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Speaker 1: hundred and eighty feet away, and as you said, they

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Speaker 1: all took terms checking on the kid one hundred and

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Speaker 1: eighty feet away. That's much closer. Okay, so Chloy Steiger,

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Speaker 1: m that's what this guy is known for, plus a

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Speaker 1: pedophilic rate on a child. He's the perfect candidate. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he is. You know, My understanding is they didn't know

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Speaker 1: he was a sex offender, which is no excuse because

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Speaker 1: anybody that limits themselves to known sex offenders and these

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Speaker 1: types of things shouldn't be doing this job because it's

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Speaker 1: not always somebody who has a previous conviction. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: they completely ignored this guy. I have no idea why.

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Speaker 1: I read something where the lead investigator was really zeroed

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Speaker 1: in on a parents. And that's what a bad investiators

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Speaker 1: when he decides what the answer is and only looks

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Speaker 1: for evidence to support his thesis instead of just being

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Speaker 1: open to where the evidence takes him. Well, you know what,

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Speaker 1: I don't even understand at all how you don't look

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Speaker 1: for people that have committed sex crime or burglaries crime

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, guys, we are talking about a

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Speaker 1: major break in the case of beautiful three year old

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Speaker 1: Mattie McCann, who is kidnapped from her parents hotel room

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Speaker 1: while they're on vacation. She was asleep. Someone came into

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Speaker 1: the hotel room and took Mattie, leaving her siblings undisturbed. Guys,

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Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our friends

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Speaker 1: at Inside Edition. A German convict is now a suspect

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Speaker 1: in the two thousand and seven disappearance of Madeline McCann,

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Speaker 1: the British child who went missing from a resort in

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Speaker 1: Portugal when she was just three years old. Forty three

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Speaker 1: year old Christian Bruckner is currently incarcerated in his home

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Speaker 1: country on unrelated crimes. BBC reports authorities have been investigating

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Speaker 1: him since twenty seventeen after a friend of his came

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Speaker 1: forward to report he made disturbing comments about McCann while

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Speaker 1: in a bar watching coverage of the tenth anniversary of

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Speaker 1: her disappearance. German police reportedly said Bruckner lived in the

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Speaker 1: region of Portugal where Madeline was last seen. The child

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Speaker 1: disappeared from the hotel her family was staying in during

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Speaker 1: the vacation. Disturbing comments he made in a bar watching

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Speaker 1: the Mattie McCann coverage. When Mattie first goes get missing

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Speaker 1: back to you, Dave Mack joining me from crime online

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Speaker 1: dot Com. I understand that this freak and I'm saying

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Speaker 1: that because he's connected to child pornography and apparently he

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Speaker 1: moved to this area after serving part of a two

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Speaker 1: year sentence for molesting a six year old girl in Wurzburg.

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Speaker 1: At the time they went missing, he was living in

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Speaker 1: an area about a ten minute drive away. So the

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Speaker 1: child molestations are piling up. He lives ten minutes away

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Speaker 1: and he burglarizes hotel rooms. I'm very stunned the cops

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Speaker 1: didn't see him, and I understand Dave mac that Brittner

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Speaker 1: had been a person of interest at the jet Go

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Speaker 1: but then he was eliminated. Why well, and I need

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Speaker 1: to correct something earlier. I said that his first conviction

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Speaker 1: was a nine year old boy. It was a girl, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: and I apologize onto this still a child go ahead

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Speaker 1: him with this. He was eliminated as a suspect because

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Speaker 1: they were specifically looking for sexual preditors for those convicted

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Speaker 1: of sexual harassment, abuse and rate. He at that time,

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Speaker 1: Portugal only had him listed as a foreign thief as

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Speaker 1: a robber. They didn't have Christian Brutner on their list

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Speaker 1: as a sexual preditor, even though why they just didn't

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Speaker 1: and you know goes back we said, the Portugal authorities

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Speaker 1: dropped the ball from the beginning. They did bad part

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Speaker 1: is they passed bad information along to others so that

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Speaker 1: they he was eliminated as a suspect in the early

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Speaker 1: days of this investigation when he should have been the

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Speaker 1: primary suspect. You know, no offense to all our friends overseas,

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Speaker 1: but to you, Jessice Scott Morgan, Professor, forensic teath investigator.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever seen Pink Panther the movie, not the

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Speaker 1: actual Panther or the comic Panther that's pink. Yeah. Do

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Speaker 1: you know how? Yeah, you know how the police are

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Speaker 1: portrayed as bumbling idgets in these in particularly that country.

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Speaker 1: But when you hear stories like this, they did not

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Speaker 1: have him on their list of sex offenders. Look, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know cops are overloaded. I get it. I've been

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Speaker 1: there as a prosecutor, but how could you not have

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Speaker 1: this guy on your list? He was just convicted of

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Speaker 1: raping a little girl. Yeah, it's tragic because this could

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Speaker 1: have been interdicted far in advance, you know, before it

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Speaker 1: every good have Tragic's the right word because tragic to me,

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Speaker 1: seems like it was an tragic incident or tragic accident.

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Speaker 1: This is no accident. This is flied out incompetence for

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Speaker 1: them not to have a child sex predator on their list. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and therefore he was eliminating you're talking about. One of

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Speaker 1: the things that complicates this is you have the sovereignty

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Speaker 1: of these individual nations. It's not like going from you know, Alabama, Georgia,

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Speaker 1: from New York to you know, I know, Vermont, New

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Speaker 1: Hampshire or whatever. It's a it's a major pain. And

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Speaker 1: you know, they do have what's referred to as Interpole,

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Speaker 1: but I've worked with Interpole before Nancy on missing persons cases,

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Speaker 1: and it is just kind of this lucy goosey, kind

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Speaker 1: of soft in the middle kind of things clearinghouse without

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Speaker 1: any real Yeah, they don't, they don't. They they don't

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Speaker 1: have And you know, when we begin to think now

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Speaker 1: about things like databases and all this thing, and you know,

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Speaker 1: moving forward, you know, it's become more solid relative to

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Speaker 1: things like DNA databases. The problem with someone like this,

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Speaker 1: for uh, you know, they're from a behavior standpoint, is

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Speaker 1: the fact that they will collect things. And I think

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Speaker 1: that this guy, He's in multiple locations. If you had

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Speaker 1: that information from that, from those bits of evidence like DNA,

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Speaker 1: you may have been able to kind of connect the

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Speaker 1: dots more effectively, if you had a database that you

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Speaker 1: could go to that Interpol would set up. Now they

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Speaker 1: might have that now, but back during this period of

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Speaker 1: time they didn't, and it's it turned out to be

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Speaker 1: a total dumpster fire. And here's the problem. Not only

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Speaker 1: are we talking about Maddie Nancy, this guy is moving

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Speaker 1: between all of these different countries. How many other children

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Speaker 1: are there well keeping up with it. Jason Ocean is

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Speaker 1: joining me, renowned defense attorney and the Tri State area

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Speaker 1: joining me today from New York, Jason Oceans. The reality

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Speaker 1: is he is connected to many different young children, and

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Speaker 1: they all, whether they're boys or girls, look very similar physically,

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Speaker 1: and they all are similar in many ways to Mattie

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Speaker 1: McCann's appearance. Jason. Even here in the States where we

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Speaker 1: have aphists, where we have you've got a fingerprint data bay,

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Speaker 1: you've got DNA data bank, you've got a gun data bank,

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Speaker 1: they don't have all that in Portugal and the surrounding areas.

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Speaker 1: But we know this, we know is mo we know

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Speaker 1: where he travels. But even so, how is it that

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Speaker 1: he's slipped between juris dictional limits. How'd that happen? Initially

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Speaker 1: bad policing right, not taking the time to really circle

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Speaker 1: around beyond the parents, without the reason to think that

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Speaker 1: they would just come here to Portugal to dispose of

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Speaker 1: their three year old daughter. Nothing in the background that

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Speaker 1: I saw then, nor now after all these years, indicated

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Speaker 1: that they were responsible. It reminded me of the Eton

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Speaker 1: Pats case in New York where six year old went missing,

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Speaker 1: and again it turned right away to the parents, and

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Speaker 1: yet it was right under the noses at the corner bodega.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes drawing the line in the inference right away

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Speaker 1: precludes you from thinking outside that circle, or even perhaps

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Speaker 1: did he have an assistant letting him know, you know,

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Speaker 1: where these hotel rooms were unguarded, or you know, better

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Speaker 1: targets to go. So I just think from the onset

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Speaker 1: this investigation, she was doomed. You know, you kind of

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Speaker 1: sound like you're blaming police, and I agree that they

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Speaker 1: were inept and really screwed up the case. But the

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Speaker 1: police are not the ones that took Mattie out of

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Speaker 1: her room and raped her and killed her. And at

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Speaker 1: this juncture, we've been told several different things. We've been

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Speaker 1: told the police have told Maddie McCann's parents in a

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Speaker 1: letter which I think is kind of cold, that she's dead.

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Speaker 1: The parents are saying, we have received no such letter

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Speaker 1: to doctor Daniel Bober forensic psychiatrists. You can find them

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Speaker 1: on instat a doctor Daniel Bober. How hard is this

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Speaker 1: for the parents, what they've been through? Oh, you know, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: it's every parent's worst nightmare. It's absolutely devastating. And there's

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Speaker 1: really nothing that you're gonna say or do that's gonna

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Speaker 1: make that pain go away. And it's going to be

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Speaker 1: a pain that's gonna last for life. Absolutely crime stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about a beautiful

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Speaker 1: little three year old girl who goes on vacation with

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Speaker 1: her parents. I remember it like it was yesterday, and

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Speaker 1: they put her down to sleep with their brothers and

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Speaker 1: sisters or siblings. She's never seen alive again. Now a

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Speaker 1: lot of people have blamed the parents, and yes, they

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Speaker 1: were out of the hotel room having dinner. Am I

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Speaker 1: happy about that? No? But they are not responsible for

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Speaker 1: her kidnap. They're not involved for years, they endured suggestions

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Speaker 1: that they were they've never given up trying to find

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Speaker 1: Mattie McCann, their little girl. Take a listen to our

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Speaker 1: friends at CBC. We know that he's a forty three

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Speaker 1: year old German Man. He is white. Now because of

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Speaker 1: Germans privacy laws, we don't know his identity, but what

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Speaker 1: police have said is that he has a history of

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Speaker 1: sexual violence, including against children, and that he's actually in

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Speaker 1: prison right now convicted of a sex crime. We also

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Speaker 1: know that he was living in the area where Madeline

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Speaker 1: disappeared at the time of our disappearance, and you can met.

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Speaker 1: Police have actually released some photos of vehicles that he

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Speaker 1: had driven at that time thirteen years ago. So again

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Speaker 1: we don't know his identity of police. I've simply said

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Speaker 1: that he has a history of not just sexual violence actually,

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Speaker 1: but of break ins of burglaries. He was known to

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Speaker 1: go going to people's homes and steal their things and

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Speaker 1: of course of violence. So this is a huge, huge breakthrough.

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Speaker 1: We know his name now, it's Christian Bruckner, with a

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Speaker 1: long rap sheet including sex abuse on little children, very

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Speaker 1: similar physic to Maddie McCann, and breaking into the exact

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Speaker 1: resort into hotel rooms where Maddie McCann was kidnapped. Also

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Speaker 1: the rape of a seventy two year old woman near

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Speaker 1: that resort. That's what we know about him. How police

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Speaker 1: let him slip through their fingers, I do not know.

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Speaker 1: But right now take a listen to Mark Cranwell. This

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Speaker 1: is the Maddie McCann investigator. He's white, he's about six

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Speaker 1: foot in height. He's forty three now. At the time

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Speaker 1: he was thirty, but he could have looked somewhere between

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Speaker 1: twenty five and thirty two. We know the identity of

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Speaker 1: this mail. We nominated him as a suspect for the

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Speaker 1: inquiry and the investigation team. This is a significant development

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Speaker 1: we are we've been working on this line of inquiry

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Speaker 1: for a couple of years. He had access to two vehicles.

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Speaker 1: What's about the two vehicles. The first one is a

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Speaker 1: camper van. It's a VWT three Westphalia model. It's an

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Speaker 1: early eighties model and the color tone it's quite distinctive.

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Speaker 1: It was quite old and probably described as a bit

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Speaker 1: beaten up, but it was an white upper body and

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Speaker 1: a yellow sort of lower body. We know that that

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Speaker 1: vehicle was in the area certainly the day's leading up

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Speaker 1: to it and the week afterwards to Jason Oceans attorney

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Speaker 1: joining us out of New York in New Jersey, Jason,

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Speaker 1: you and I covered the Danielle Van Damn kidnap, rape

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Speaker 1: and murder case from California. She was taken by the

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Speaker 1: neighbor David. I believe it was Westerfield. But long story short,

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Speaker 1: he kidnapped and held her in a camper van. And

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Speaker 1: we see over and over and over that a camper

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Speaker 1: or a van is used in kidnap, rape and murder

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Speaker 1: of children. That's quite the coincidence, is it not that

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Speaker 1: he used a camper van at the time she goes missing?

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Speaker 1: What about it? Jason? Otions remember that case daniel van

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Speaker 1: dam I do. I do, And it's a spot spot

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Speaker 1: on on that because that serves as the as part

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Speaker 1: of the EMO of the sexual assault or rape of

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Speaker 1: the of the victim. And so again I did not

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Speaker 1: mean to blame police, per se. I am a fan

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Speaker 1: of good. Somebody's doing cleanup now, yes, ma'am. But I

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Speaker 1: would say that a stute prosecutor that you are, that

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Speaker 1: that develops in those are all the hearts of the peace,

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Speaker 1: and you immediately looked at that, Jason. I think part

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Speaker 1: of it is you've got a home on wheels. Because

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Speaker 1: they don't have to take the child back to their

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Speaker 1: home or apartment. They don't risk being seen by a

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Speaker 1: landlady or a neighbor, or a roommate or a wife.

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Speaker 1: And they have room to move around to assault and

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Speaker 1: kill the child. And not only that, in a camper

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Speaker 1: or a van, they can secrete the child to the

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Speaker 1: back and nobody can see the child. It's not like

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Speaker 1: the child in the front of the back seat. So

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Speaker 1: they can hide the child and move around. That's exactly

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Speaker 1: get away with the child. They don't have to rape

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Speaker 1: and murder the child at the scene. They've got wheels,

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Speaker 1: they're mobile. I think that's why campers and vans are

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Speaker 1: favorites of child molesters. Jason, Oceans, jump and help me

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Speaker 1: out here. No, you're you are spot on, And that

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Speaker 1: is exactly the reason. It is a facilitating vehicle. Unlike

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Speaker 1: a car. It serves all of those purposes. And that's

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Speaker 1: again and good policing looking through that, you know, matching

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Speaker 1: good detective work is no no better than right there

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Speaker 1: at the spot and circling those things. Fancy that's it.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't solved early on. And uh, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: circle back to the next vehicle. But we know to

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Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, Dave Mac, because there's so

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Speaker 1: many facts coming up fast and furious. New footage has

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Speaker 1: been captured inside Christian Brutner's layer, where police also discovered

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Speaker 1: a camper van containing a series of swimming outfits like

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Speaker 1: swimsuits that they be they believe belonged to young girls.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct, Dave Mac? Yes, man, they found a

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Speaker 1: bunch of children's swimwear. I mean, think about it, guys, Uh,

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Speaker 1: help me out to you. Kloyd Steiger, say a woman

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Speaker 1: goes and drives her husband's car one day for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: and she finds a bunch of little girl swimsuits in

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Speaker 1: there that have been used. Isn't that a red veil

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Speaker 1: of alarm? Yeah? Sure is. You know I had a

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Speaker 1: case very similar with collection underwear like this and years ago,

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Speaker 1: and that's you know you should have sent off your

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Speaker 1: alarm a lot and one thing I want to Okay,

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Speaker 1: I can't understand you. Did you say you had a

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Speaker 1: case where somebody collected underwear? Yeah? What we suspected it

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Speaker 1: was a murder involved with a child that the person

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Speaker 1: died and we never found enough to charge. But I

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Speaker 1: want to think back to something doctor Bober said about

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Speaker 1: the parents' reaction, and he's exactly right. There's nothing worse

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Speaker 1: than a child than to lose a child, although but

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Speaker 1: there is one thing to have a child that disappears

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Speaker 1: that nobody knows what happened. I've looked into the dead

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Speaker 1: eyes of mothers of long term missing and that is

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Speaker 1: a cool, cool thing path to live through horrible and

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Speaker 1: it goes. It's gone on and on and on. First

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Speaker 1: of all, everybody blamed the parents. Did they they kill

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Speaker 1: their own child? It's their fault, everyone said, because they

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Speaker 1: were having dinner and left the children alone, even though

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Speaker 1: they checked on them every twenty minutes. It went on

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Speaker 1: and on. They were crucified in the media. But I mean,

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Speaker 1: the reality is so often wrong or right, jess Got Morgan.

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Speaker 1: When a child goes missing or is dead, very often

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Speaker 1: it is the parents. So the media was wrong. But

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Speaker 1: I understand why the media focused on them, do you yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do you know? And because it many times it

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Speaker 1: leads back. I think back to Susan Smith, you know,

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Speaker 1: of course, and you know what she had done. You

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Speaker 1: begin to and from a policy from yeah top momus,

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Speaker 1: you began to think about just from an investigative standpoint,

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Speaker 1: relative to these cases, it's going to be the intimates.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be those individuals that have the biggest

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Speaker 1: I don't know how to frame it relative to the

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Speaker 1: most hatred towards towards a person to want to destroy

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Speaker 1: the most connectivity for whatever reason, they're around them more,

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00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,879
Speaker 1: they've got more opportunity. You know. We were talking and

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Speaker 1: so what happened to the McCanns was horrible. The family

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00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: being blamed the parents, but the reality is a vast

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00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,920
Speaker 1: majority of the time the parents are involved. That does

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Speaker 1: not lessen the pain that was caused to the McCanns. However,

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Speaker 1: statistics don't matter because that's not what happened in this case.

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Speaker 1: Time Stories with Nancy Grace. We are talking about the

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Speaker 1: Big break and three year old Mattie McCann's disappearance. Family

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Speaker 1: on vacation. The mom and dad go to dinner about

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Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty feet not yards, one hundred and

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Speaker 1: eighty feet away with some other friends that were there.

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Speaker 1: They go back. One of them goes back and forth

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Speaker 1: every twenty minutes to check on the shoulder to make

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Speaker 1: sure they're okay. On the last check, Mattie's gone. At

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Speaker 1: first they couldn't believe it. They tore apart the hotel

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Speaker 1: room apart looking for her. She's gone in the twenty

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Speaker 1: minutes since they last checked. They have endured so much

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Speaker 1: hatred and accusations since Mattie went missing. But now a

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Speaker 1: major break in the case. A guy that should have

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Speaker 1: been picked up on day one, Christian Bruckner, with a

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Speaker 1: rap sheet including sex molestation on a child, raping a

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Speaker 1: seventy two two year old woman in the same area

426
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: as the resort where the Mechans were staying, and burglary

427
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 1: breaking into hotel rooms. Now we mentioned the van that

428
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: this guy had, Christian Bruckner, he would have been thirty

429
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 1: at the time Maddie went missing, but he had a

430
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 1: second vehicle. Take a listen again to the Mattie McCann

431
00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 1: investigators speaking to the Sun News Mark Cranwell, So this

432
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 1: is a Jaguar who's been described as dark in color.

433
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 1: It's an x j R six. He was registered in

434
00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 1: ninety three, and we want to know does anybody remember

435
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: that vehicle. It's not particularly uncommon, not particularly unique. But

436
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: somebody will have remembered a Jaguar car in that area.

437
00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: Did you see a German male using that car? Can

438
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: you remember that the car? Can you remember where he

439
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 1: saw it? Most intriguing is he reregistered the car on

440
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 1: May the fourth, This is a day after Madeline went missing.

441
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:42,440
Speaker 1: He asked a friend to register the car in his

442
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: friend's name. We've established that our suspect, the man that

443
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: we have identified, used a telephone in that region at

444
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 1: that time. Particularly, that phone was used at seven thirty

445
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 1: two pm and the phone call was finished at eight

446
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: o two pm. He made he received a phone call

447
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 1: for thirty minutes, and we know that that phone was

448
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: in the area of PDL. Well, that's all well and

449
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: good now, but now you're asking people if they remember

450
00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: a Jaguar how many years ago? Ah? Yeah, there they're

451
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: a day later. Dollars short. That's all I can say

452
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: about their police. Now take a listen to what we

453
00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:28,880
Speaker 1: learned about a forensics search on Christian Brutner's camper. Listen.

454
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,959
Speaker 1: This is Skyne's forensic examination of the suspect's campa van

455
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,600
Speaker 1: is thought to have found no trace of Madeline's DNA

456
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: and none in his Jaguar car, which was also seized.

457
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: We hope that some British tourists can help us to

458
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 1: find the murder of Medlin mckenns. Like the Scotland Yard colleagues,

459
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: German prosecutors have received hundreds of calls after last week's

460
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: appeals for help. Vigandup and do you think the suspect

461
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:02,200
Speaker 1: has committed more crimes, possibly against British people and Irish

462
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 1: and Americans. We think there are more victims of sexual crimes.

463
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: The suspect is in jail in Germany. He too is

464
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: awaiting developments in the case. Detectives haven't yet questioned him

465
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: about Madeline. Now, I'm so burned up about this. All

466
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: those time is passing there now asking to ours what

467
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: they remember. They still haven't questioned the guy. What is

468
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: wrong with them? Yeah? I want to go out to you,

469
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: Dave mac We just heard the investigator talking about a

470
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: phone call that took place around seven thirty pm. And

471
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: what's so significant? He said, in the area. But it

472
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: was not just in the area. It was near the

473
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 1: McCann hotel apartment room, wasn't it, Yes, man, it was

474
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 1: right their mere feet away. From where Madeleine mccam was sleeping.

475
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: Another thing, Dave mac has me very concerned. There are

476
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 1: reports that a hotel staff member tipped Bruttner off. What

477
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: do you know about that? Well, police knew because Bruttner

478
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 1: had already had been robbing this particular resort over time.

479
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, he was convicted of robbing

480
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: that place before and spend time in jail overrid So

481
00:32:14,960 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: when police found out that he had this thirty minute

482
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 1: long phone conversation, they tried to figure out who it

483
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: came from. So they ended up running an ad and

484
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: putting it out in the public saying who has this number?

485
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: And it came back to an employee at the resort.

486
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 1: That's how they tied it together from Bruckner getting a

487
00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:36,320
Speaker 1: call from a resort employee essentially tipping him off as

488
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: to which apartments were unlocked. So let me understand. You

489
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 1: were telling me that police tracked the phone number that

490
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 1: called Brutner that night that Maddie goes missing. The phone

491
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,560
Speaker 1: call was at seven thirty two pm the night she

492
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: goes missing. It lasted thirty minutes until eight o two.

493
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 1: The call was made by a tell worker. We now

494
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: believe who told Brutner the apartment would be unlocked. Police

495
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 1: release that phone number to the public in order to

496
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: identify the person to whom it belonged. Brutner got tips

497
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: on unlocked apartments so he could steal from tourists. So

498
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 1: let me understand this to you, doctor Daniel Bober. The

499
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: fact that somebody within the hotel is involved should have

500
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: made this and open a shut case. That person should

501
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,880
Speaker 1: have come forward and stated, I know somebody was robbing

502
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: apartments that night Maddie goes missing. Why didn't they? The

503
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: good question, Nancy doesn't really make any sense. I mean,

504
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: the more you hear about this case, it seems like

505
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: there's a roadmap to this guy. So it's baffling. You know,

506
00:33:56,560 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: very often I have said, I don't know if you

507
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: agree with this or not. As Scott Morgan that burglars

508
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 1: and peeping tom's are and sex offenders are the three

509
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 1: criminals that have to repeat offend. They can't stop themselves.

510
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:18,640
Speaker 1: There's something about burglar burglars. They get a thrill out

511
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:21,160
Speaker 1: of going in somebody else's place and looking around and

512
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: taking things. It's very voyeuristic, as is peeping tom as

513
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: is sex offenses. In certain ways. What do you make

514
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:31,759
Speaker 1: of that? Yeah, there's not too many degrees of separation

515
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: between the three, and it is secretive. You know, people

516
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: get burglary and robbery confused all the time. Burglary is

517
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:42,640
Speaker 1: something where you enter a dwelling and there's no one there.

518
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: You don't expect to go in and like force someone

519
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: to give you money. You go in and you steal.

520
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: You get into intimate spaces where people exist, and you're

521
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,440
Speaker 1: going to take jewelry. It's a perfect cover for somebody

522
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: that is a sexual predator. Though they can go in

523
00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: and you know they might steal a few things relative

524
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,279
Speaker 1: to valuables to sell them somewhere else. But when you

525
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: can get access to god, I hate to say this,

526
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,719
Speaker 1: to the dirty laundry for instance, in a home, and

527
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,840
Speaker 1: you can live out these fantasies, particularly in people's bedrooms

528
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,399
Speaker 1: or bathrooms and all this sort of stuff, it's a

529
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: perfect recipe for something horrible to occur. And that's what's happened.

530
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,120
Speaker 1: Back to this attendant, this is very scary to me

531
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: and very disturbing because he's got other people involved in this.

532
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,560
Speaker 1: I doubt, like with most of these people, people think, well,

533
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 1: this is the first time he's done this. That's a

534
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 1: load of crap. No, it's not. I suspect that there

535
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: are probably other people that helped him facilitate these so

536
00:35:38,719 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: called burglaries all over Europe, and there's probably a network

537
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 1: of these people that knew that he was into burglary

538
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:49,439
Speaker 1: and they were getting a kickback for it. And so

539
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: now you've got dead children that are involved in this

540
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: and I hate to say that she's dead, but that's

541
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: just my opinion. And there's people whose lives have been destroyed.

542
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 1: So it is very, very disturbing. Guys, we are hearing

543
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,839
Speaker 1: that there is a disagreement between the German police and

544
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: the British police. Take a listen now to host David

545
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: Karts with Mike Neville, former police inspector. Listen, British investigators

546
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: are still trading. This is a missing person's case. What

547
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: sort of evidence do you think German prosecutors have and

548
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: why mightn't they share their alleged proof. Well, it's certainly

549
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,320
Speaker 1: not fingerprints or DNA, because they're saying that doesn't exist.

550
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: So when they say there is no forensics, do they

551
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: mean there's no digital forensics, which could be computers or

552
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: for photographic evidence or is it simply a confession as

553
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 1: he told a friend or a police officer. He's done it,

554
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,080
Speaker 1: as it's been recorded. But I think one of the

555
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:54,280
Speaker 1: key things in this case is this phrase concrete evidence.

556
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: I spoke to my German friend who's a senior detective,

557
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: and I think it's been lost in translation. In German

558
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: it's sort of been reasonable grown suspects, rather than as

559
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 1: an English would mean the definitely absolute proof. I think

560
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: he's been lost in translation. So to you, Dave, mat

561
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: German prosecutors claim there's evidence indicating Maddie is dead, but

562
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,840
Speaker 1: the Brits disagree. Explain well, bottom line is you said it.

563
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: The German officials say they have concrete evidence, but then

564
00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:30,240
Speaker 1: they actually updated their comment a few days ago saying, actually,

565
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 1: we don't really have any evidence. We just believe this

566
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:37,400
Speaker 1: is the case. Meanwhile, the British authorities from Scotland ard

567
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: Operation Grains, which was put together to look into this case,

568
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 1: are still considering it a missing person's gate for right now,

569
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: Christian and Bruckner are behind bars on another offense, but

570
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 1: is set to be released. He has not even been

571
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:54,799
Speaker 1: questioned about Maddie McCann as of Yet we wait as

572
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: justice and false Nancy grace Cum story of